0:02

Welcome to season two of the Next Great

0:04

Podcast. My

0:09

Heart Radio and Tongle have once again teamed

0:11

up to bring you another round of amazing and

0:14

unique voices. We're excited

0:16

to share these ten incredible podcasts with

0:18

you and need your help crowning the winner.

0:20

Check out the pilots and be sure to vote for your

0:22

favorite at Next Great podcast dot

0:25

com.

0:28

Today's entry is Crimes Against Food

0:31

by Devin Andreid. It is

0:33

time for a true crime show where no

0:35

one has to die. The Crimes Against

0:37

Food takes the upsetting yet popular

0:39

true crime genre and mixes it with food

0:41

to create a fun, lighthearted, and overall

0:44

refreshing show that aims to solve

0:46

food history's greatest mysteries. Devin

0:48

does a great job of maintaining the high stakes

0:51

and drama associated with true crime,

0:53

and as the listener, you get to walk away

0:55

without feeling awful about the state of humanity.

0:58

By combining great audio design with a

1:00

compelling concept and charismatic host,

1:03

we think this show has the potential to capture

1:05

a huge audience and help the true crime category

1:07

evolve in an exciting new direction. I'm

1:16

Devin Andreid from Toronto, Ontario,

1:18

and you're listening to the pilot

1:20

episode of Crimes Against

1:22

Food as part of the Next Great Podcast

1:25

competition from I Heart Radio and

1:28

Tongle. If

1:32

you wanted to whip up a quick cake right

1:34

now, it wouldn't take much. All

1:37

you need is a cake mix, water,

1:40

oil, and fresh eggs.

1:43

But back in the early days of the convenience

1:46

food revolution, you needed

1:48

even less, just cake

1:50

mix and water, two

1:53

ingredients at least at first,

1:56

and then everything changed, and

1:58

not just in cake mixes, in

2:01

an entire industry, in

2:03

the way we are sold a product.

2:09

I think it was my Strategic

2:11

Principles of Public Relations course. It's

2:13

like an overview of public relations like PR

2:16

one oh one, And it was in the textbook

2:18

we learned about the father of PR. This

2:21

is Catherine. She went to school for

2:24

PR and marketing and now works in

2:26

the industry. She and I do a lot of

2:28

cooking and baking together, and she's actually

2:30

the one who told me about this case. We

2:32

learned about that story because it's it's like the

2:34

first kind of start into marketing and what marketing

2:37

is today. When she first

2:39

told me about this story, I couldn't

2:42

stop thinking, why are they're

2:44

not more people talking about this this

2:47

idea that marketing led to

2:49

an ingredient change in a product.

2:52

Unless you're in pr or marketing, you just

2:54

assume here's the product. Marketing is given

2:56

a product to market, which

2:59

is often still to day not the case. So

3:03

we're going to find out exactly how this

3:05

happened. M

3:19

This is Crimes against Food,

3:22

The Mysteries of Food Histories.

3:29

Foodies and true crime junkies

3:31

unite in this investigative series about

3:33

these strange, questionable, and

3:36

borderline criminal things that have happened

3:38

to food throughout the years. Justice

3:41

is being served and these food crimes

3:44

are going to do their time on

3:50

this episode. The psychological

3:53

manipulation of a boxed cake

3:56

mix. So

4:13

who was this marketing guru,

4:18

Doctor Ernest Dictor, otherwise

4:20

known as Suspect Number

4:23

one. In this case, Dictor

4:25

was almost like a real life Don Draper.

4:28

He had all those snappy slogans

4:30

that Draper did, but he also had

4:33

the psychology to back it up. We

4:35

don't go out and ask directly

4:38

why do you buy? Why don't you? What

4:40

we try to do instead is to understand

4:42

the total personality, the self

4:44

image of the customer. We use all the resources

4:47

of modern social sciences it

4:49

opens up some stimulating psychological techniques

4:52

for selling any new product. And

4:55

just like Donald Draper, he had

4:57

a pretty big reputation in the marketing.

5:00

An advertising industry article

5:03

in The New York Times said he was the

5:05

first to stress the importance of

5:08

product image and persuasion in

5:10

advertising. And that was only

5:12

one of the many marks that Dicter left

5:15

on the marketing world. But

5:17

we'll get into the real impact of his

5:19

work and his methods a little bit later.

5:22

First, let's look at the motives. Why

5:27

did a well established and trusted

5:29

mogul like Betty Crocker need

5:32

Ernest's help at all. Betty's

5:35

whole thing was that she was every woman's

5:37

trusted resource in the kitchen. Betty

5:40

Crocker has some recipes and many suggestions

5:42

planned especially for these young homemakers.

5:45

So here she is your Betty Crocker.

5:48

Hello everybody. Today,

5:51

I'm going to keep you a recipe for kind

5:53

of meal every bride ought to know

5:55

how to prepare for her husband. The

5:57

recipe is economical and so, but

6:00

it's like they weren't exactly turning to her for

6:03

convenience. During the nineteen

6:05

fifties, box cake mixes started

6:07

to see this concerning trend

6:10

in sales. This exciting

6:13

new convenience food that Betty had so proudly

6:15

promoted had already begun

6:17

to plateau. It seemed like Betty

6:20

was having some troubles getting women excited

6:22

to buy her cakes. So

6:24

incomes Ernest Dictor. I

6:27

interview people, but not asked them

6:29

direct questions, let them

6:31

talk freely like you do in the psychoanalysis

6:34

we use are there resources of modern

6:37

social sciences, And

6:39

what he found was that women weren't rushing

6:42

out to buy cake mixes because they

6:44

felt like they hadn't actively participated

6:47

in the cake. It was all done

6:49

for them. They weren't emotionally

6:51

invested in it. And

6:54

previously marketers had relied on this

6:56

message that homemakers need to

6:58

only drop this sign scientific

7:00

marvel into a bowl, add water,

7:02

mix, and bake. But that

7:05

was all a little too good to be true

7:07

for the modern homemaker, even

7:10

if Betty Crocker was the one telling

7:12

them to do it. What

7:15

I found was that a lot of the previous

7:17

reporting about this case always

7:20

points to dicter making a significant

7:22

suggestion. At this time, he

7:25

believed that powdered eggs, often

7:27

used in cake mixes, should be left

7:29

out, so women could add

7:31

a few fresh eggs into the batter,

7:34

giving them that sense of emotional

7:36

investment. He believed

7:38

that baking a cake was an

7:41

act of love on the woman's part.

7:43

A cake mix that only needed water cheapened

7:46

that love, so the act of

7:48

adding fresh eggs was

7:51

an act of love.

7:58

At this point in the case, something isn't

8:01

adding up to me. You've got a baking

8:03

icon with a team of scientists

8:06

and food experts on her side.

8:08

Then a marketer and psychologist comes

8:11

along and just suggests a change

8:13

in the ingredients of one of their products.

8:16

Did he even understand what

8:19

that meant for the cake? I'm

8:21

not so sure. But I also need to investigate

8:23

what those eggs meant for the cake, because,

8:26

unlike Dickter, I'm not going to make claims about

8:29

this cake without actually knowing how

8:31

it works. In order

8:33

to crack this case and

8:36

understand these cake mixes, I've

8:38

got to investigate the eggs myself,

8:41

and that's going to require some very

8:44

scientific testing. M

8:48

h, it's

8:52

created. I mean, this alone is

8:55

a feat of science. All of the ingredients

8:57

in here. Okay, So now we're gonna

8:59

pour this into our pan. Poor

9:01

batter in pan and bake immediately

9:04

immediately, no hesitation. Okay,

9:07

here we go and we're going

9:09

into the oven. Mm

9:12

hmmmm.

9:32

So to further investigate the

9:34

eggs in this crime, I went

9:36

digging back through files and any

9:39

kind of evidence I could find. And

9:42

I don't want to exaggerate

9:45

too much when I say this, but I was able

9:47

to track down some previous evidence from

9:49

this case where a detective

9:51

actually got an interview with one

9:54

of the big players in this

9:56

case. I

10:03

don't know, so,

10:09

Greg, do you know why

10:11

we've brought you in here? I don't know

10:14

nothing. Seems like you might have gotten

10:16

mixed up with the shitty batcher.

10:18

They said they needed my help. I didn't

10:20

have any reason to say no. They seemed

10:23

like good company. What exactly

10:25

they ask you to help with? They hatched

10:27

the scheme and mostify this moist

10:30

in that help us rise to great heights.

10:33

Alright, and not with the lingo it

10:36

mostified. Doesn't sound

10:38

that important to me telling you what you were

10:40

really doing. I was literally

10:42

the one holding things together. No

10:44

one understands the pressure that puts on you.

10:47

I became a shell of a man. You're

10:50

starting to sound a little scrambled

10:52

there, Greg, something bothering you. Everyone

10:55

thinks it's over easy, but it's actually

10:58

hard boiled. They don't get it. If

11:00

I don't do enough, things might turn out too soft

11:02

and flat. If I do too much, it gets

11:04

tough and jewey. That's enough

11:06

pressure to make someone crack.

11:10

You ever thought about leaving? Yeah?

11:12

Right? Then? What would they do? I

11:15

ever heard them talk about other

11:18

options? Greg

11:20

refused to answer any further questions

11:22

without legal counsel, But it

11:25

got me thinking which came first,

11:28

the cake or the egg? And

11:30

if it was the cake, well,

11:33

what happens without the egg? So

11:35

back to the lab for further testing.

11:38

It is half a tablespoon of ground flax seed

11:41

with one and a half tablespoons of water.

11:46

You want us to sit for at least five minutes.

11:49

So for this test, I

11:51

wanted to know what happened when I added

11:53

what's known as a flax egg. It's

11:55

a common egg substitute for people

11:57

who are plant based or allergic to

12:00

eggs. And it just seemed strange

12:02

to me that there was no mention

12:04

so far in any of the documents in this

12:07

case that talk about what

12:09

happens when there aren't eggs

12:11

in the cake or what are the eggs doing

12:13

in the cake? So what I needed

12:16

to find out is if the flax eggs

12:18

could produce the same result

12:21

that the fresh eggs did. Once

12:46

the two cakes were done, I compared the results.

12:48

I had some lab assistance with

12:50

me at the time who also gave their

12:53

feedback. Good

12:57

structure, good texture, grave

12:59

firm, okay, next one, Oh

13:01

it's oh, it's just falling apart a little bit. It's

13:04

goody right, okay.

13:07

And what we gathered was that the flax

13:09

eggs couldn't quite measure

13:11

up to the results of the fresh

13:14

eggs. Now, this might

13:16

clear Greg's name from our investigation,

13:19

but these results are also not something

13:21

Dictor ever mentioned about the cakes. He

13:24

never talked about what the eggs

13:26

are doing. He only focused

13:28

on the feelings. By

13:39

the time I was done baking those two cakes,

13:42

I was feeling pretty tired. I

13:44

felt like I had expelled more than enough

13:46

energy and effort to

13:48

show how much I cared. And

13:51

that feeling right there, that need

13:53

to justify that what I was doing

13:56

was enough. That was exactly

13:58

what Ernest Dictor loved to

14:01

capitalize on. He

14:04

put together a bunch of groups sessions

14:07

where housewives could free associate

14:10

about cake mixes, and they could say

14:12

whatever words or thoughts came to

14:14

mind. Actually, he was

14:16

kind of the mastermind behind that

14:18

whole technique that later came to be known

14:20

as a focus group. His

14:23

whole theory was, why can't we have a group

14:25

therapy session about products?

14:28

And that's exactly what he did in

14:31

a room above the garage of his mansion

14:33

in New York. If you've ever

14:36

been part of a focus group, or seen

14:38

an episode of Mad Men where they had

14:40

women come into the office and try a bunch

14:42

of different lipsticks or something like that

14:45

while the men watched from behind a two

14:47

way mirror. Ernest was

14:49

the mind behind that method. So

14:53

now we know how Ernest came

14:55

to the conclusion the consumers felt

14:58

this unconscious guilt about

15:00

the ease and convenience of these cake mixes.

15:04

But this is the point in the case where for

15:06

me, dictor loses all

15:09

credibility in the reporting because

15:12

he will take all the credit for what happens

15:14

next. This is where all

15:16

previous investigations of this case

15:19

have fallen apart, much

15:22

like that flag side cake. Looking

15:25

back through documents in this case, there's

15:27

a significant piece of evidence that conflicts

15:30

with the story that's always been reported.

15:33

Actually, there are two pieces

15:35

of evidence. If

15:51

we go back in time further to the

15:53

nineteen thirties, that's where we'll find

15:55

the first and second patents

15:57

that were ever filed for a boxed cake

16:00

X. They were filed by p. Duffs

16:02

and Sons, a Pittsburgh based molasses

16:05

company who invented the first

16:07

ginger cake mix because of abundance

16:09

of molasses. Their

16:12

first patent in nineteen thirty included

16:15

the use of dried egg in the mix and

16:17

only required the addition of water.

16:20

Their second patent, however, filed

16:23

only a few years later, points

16:25

out something very significant.

16:28

They filed a second patent so soon

16:30

after because they made a very important

16:33

discovery about their consumers and

16:35

the cakes themselves. Fresh

16:40

eggs generally produced better

16:42

results, and consumers

16:45

expressed a preference for them.

16:47

That was in nineteen thirty five. This

16:50

information would have been publicly available

16:52

to other companies. Betty Crocker,

16:55

Duncan, Hines, Pillsbury, all

16:57

the companies getting in on the box

16:59

k mix game would

17:02

have known this information. The fact

17:04

that consumers preferred fresh eggs

17:06

was not actually the revolutionary

17:09

finding that Dickter took credit

17:11

for So

17:13

with this new evidence, there had

17:16

to be something else that helped

17:18

increase sales in the fifties, something

17:21

completely different. I'm

17:40

going to do something completely

17:42

different. I'm going to go against

17:44

all of Ernest's research and

17:47

psychoanalysis. Despite

17:49

all the science and all the studies,

17:52

there's still a truth they're hiding from us.

17:55

The two ingredient cake lives

17:57

on. I'm

18:01

making a boxed cake mix with

18:03

just the mix and carbonated

18:06

water and

18:12

in with the batter, and that's all. Okay,

18:15

this is already very bubbly compared to

18:17

the other ones, so I'm very curious what

18:19

happens when I start mixing it. Honestly,

18:25

it looks just like the egg one did. So

18:29

what does this final cake lead

18:32

us to? Well, if we compare

18:34

it to the cake made with fresh eggs,

18:37

there's definitely a difference in the structure

18:39

of the cake, but it's still

18:41

a delicious cake. And it

18:45

actually revealed another significant

18:47

finding in this investigation. Okay,

18:50

this fully just like blows

18:54

this entire investigation out of

18:56

the water, And like, what even are we

18:58

doing here? I was just looking up

19:01

measurements for the final cake, but

19:03

I've never actually seen that

19:05

Betty Crocker herself has

19:08

one of these recipes on their

19:11

site. On her site, Betty Crocker

19:13

has a two ingredient cake recipe

19:16

listed to this day.

19:19

They know it works and they know people

19:21

might want it. But

19:23

why I wonder if for the carbonated

19:26

water one, if it would be more perfect

19:28

for cupcakes, you know, where

19:30

there's not as much surface area, so

19:32

the lightness kind of works in

19:35

its favor. And

19:38

what is a crucial part of a cupcake,

19:41

the frosting. No one serves

19:43

naked cupcakes, and that

19:46

was the real reason consumers started

19:48

buying boxed cake mixes. Again, Betty

19:51

Crocker steered attention away

19:53

from the mixes ease of preparation by

19:56

promoting lavish frosting designs

19:58

on packaging, in of books.

20:00

In advertisements, appearance

20:03

became the standard for success,

20:05

overshadowing flavor and texture.

20:08

So it was the act of decorating

20:10

the cake that made consumers

20:12

feel like they were doing enough. Now,

20:15

remember what that New York Times article said

20:17

about Dictor's work. He stressed

20:20

the importance of product

20:22

image and

20:24

persuasion in advertising.

20:32

So who is the real criminal

20:35

here? I

20:38

went into this investigation thinking it

20:40

would be the eggs, or even

20:42

the food scientists that haven't really talked

20:44

about the fact that carbonated water works.

20:47

But the impact that those two had is

20:51

nothing compared to Earnest

20:53

Dictor. Yes, Dictor

20:55

was right that the cakes should have fresh eggs

20:57

in them, but only because it made

20:59

them better cakes, and

21:01

the industry already knew that. Yet

21:04

Dictor still came into the picture, leaned

21:07

on his fresh egg revelation,

21:10

and this became a huge turning

21:12

point in his career and

21:14

the industry. These

21:17

cake mixes validated Dictor's

21:19

methods. There's a reason his name is

21:21

still mentioned in marketing textbooks

21:23

like cats. Soon every piece of

21:26

marketing involved psychoanalysis.

21:33

This idea that you have to know what

21:35

the consumer's real needs are in order

21:37

to exploit them had

21:40

been normalized, and to this

21:42

day that manipulation

21:44

continues, except now

21:47

they've got our data to use

21:50

to psychoanalyze and

21:53

to manipulate, all

21:56

because of some fresh eggs.

22:00

M HM

22:17

coming up on this season of Crimes

22:19

against Food, serial killers

22:22

and the twisted truth of Everyone's favorite

22:24

breakfast food, a drug cartel

22:27

for Dunk a Row's, and the

22:29

Old and the Mold behind Best

22:31

Before Dates. This

22:34

episode was written and performed by me

22:37

Devin Andreid, with additional voices

22:39

by Graham Backstead, Jesse Kristenbaum,

22:42

Adam Hutchinson, and Katherine

22:44

Susa. Special thank you to my lab

22:47

assistance Neil and Laurie Andreid,

22:49

and a very special thank you to

22:51

you for listening for checking

22:53

out this pilot episode. If you

22:56

enjoyed what you heard, be sure to vote for the show

22:58

so that we can continue sir up justice

23:01

for these crimes against food. H

23:15

Hi, this is Sienna and Leanna from

23:17

Tossed Popcorn, last year's winner of the

23:19

Next Great Podcast. Thank you so much

23:21

for listening to this episode, and be sure to go vote for your

23:23

favorite at next Grate podcast dot com.

23:27

M