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Media, part of the NPR

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network. Rick

8:42

Woodfield is the oldest baseball field

8:44

in the U.S. It's also where

8:46

comedian Roy Wood Jr. spent a

8:49

lot of time growing up. Racism

8:51

was around, but his baseball field

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somehow was a separate oasis from

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all of that for blacks and

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whites. Baseball, Birmingham and Race in

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America on the latest episode of

9:02

The Sunday Story from NPR's Up

9:04

First podcast. And

9:08

we're back. And Danielle, I'm curious about

9:10

how much former President Trump is campaigning

9:12

on the issue of abortion as someone

9:14

who has traveled to his rallies and

9:16

has been talking to his supporters. How

9:18

central to his core message is the

9:20

issue of abortion? Not

9:22

terribly. And when it does

9:24

come up, his tune on it almost never

9:27

changes. He generally says when

9:29

he brings it up that,

9:31

hey, the Supreme Court overturned Roe and

9:33

now it went back to the states.

9:35

Aren't you glad about that? Everybody likes

9:37

that, he says, which I mean, in

9:39

fact, that's a little debatable, but and

9:42

of course, his crowds love it. But he

9:44

doesn't always bring it up. I was just

9:46

going through his speech in Racine, Wisconsin, this

9:48

week. It didn't come up in that speech.

9:50

So it's certainly not one of

9:52

his central things, which are, you know, other culture

9:55

war issues like transgender

9:57

athletes and sports and also, of course,

9:59

immigration. Mara, I try

10:01

never to use the words unprecedented or

10:04

extraordinary anymore because I feel like those

10:06

words have no meaning in modern politics,

10:08

but I do still think it

10:11

is worth pausing to make the

10:13

point that it is pretty remarkable

10:15

and unprecedented and amazing in modern

10:17

politics that the Republican candidate for

10:19

president is also campaigning and

10:22

saying he will not sign a federal

10:24

abortion ban. That is not a position

10:26

that a Republican presidential candidate could have

10:28

had since Roe. No,

10:31

but he can say that because Republicans, at

10:33

least for now, have won the war. Now,

10:35

they might lose the battle. I mean, they're

10:37

dealing with all the negative consequences of winning.

10:39

Like I said, they worked for 50 years

10:41

to overturn Roe and they finally did. But

10:43

the thing that Trump does that's

10:45

so interesting to me is he

10:48

is running an almost completely base-oriented

10:50

campaign. He hasn't tempered his rhetoric

10:52

at all about January 6th. He's

10:54

talked as harshly about immigrants as he

10:56

ever had. Abortion is the only issue

10:58

where he has, quote, moved to the

11:00

middle. And his move to the middle is, of course,

11:02

to repeat over and over again. It's up

11:05

to the states. They will ask him questions

11:07

like, is it OK for states to track

11:09

women's pregnancy? And he'll say, well, it doesn't

11:11

matter what I think. The states can do

11:14

whatever they want. I don't

11:16

know how far that gets him. Danielle, I

11:18

always think it's important to remember that this

11:20

isn't just about the presidential. You and I

11:22

today, we're just listening in on a call

11:24

with Democratic campaign chairs. And it's

11:26

very clear that Democrats think that the

11:28

abortion issue is critical to both their

11:31

chances of holding on to control of the

11:33

Senate and possibly taking control of the House.

11:36

Yes, totally. And there is something really

11:38

interesting that was said on this call

11:40

by Democratic Senator Tina Smith from Minnesota.

11:42

She was saying that because of a

11:44

law that we have talked about on

11:46

this podcast before, it's called the Comstock

11:48

Act, it is currently on

11:50

the books. And were

11:52

it interpreted in a particular

11:54

quite conservative way, it is

11:57

possible, say some legal experts.

12:00

that it could end the

12:02

mailing of abortion pills, which account

12:04

for more than half of abortions,

12:07

or even that it could quite

12:09

overwhelmingly curtail abortion nationwide.

12:13

And so she said, listen, even if

12:15

you've passed a law, a ballot

12:17

measure in your state protecting abortion, that might

12:19

not be enough. If you live in a

12:21

state where right now you feel that your

12:23

rights are protected because of action that your

12:25

governor and state legislature have, have taken, forget

12:28

about it because Donald Trump as

12:30

president has beliefs wrongly that he has the

12:32

power to roll that all away. Now she's

12:34

going to get Donald Trump there, of course,

12:37

but also this has big repercussions in all

12:39

those other state races, right? Like for example,

12:41

Arizona, where there may be such a thing

12:43

on the ballot, Florida, where it is on

12:46

the ballot for this fall. But besides that,

12:48

they're also very much making the case that,

12:51

hey, Biden says he wants

12:53

to codify Roe. Well, he

12:55

better elect us if you really want that to

12:57

happen. But I know Sue that you can tell

12:59

us that that's not necessarily going to happen. Easier

13:02

said than done. Yeah. Yeah. Well,

13:04

the two, the two states to really watch are the

13:07

two battleground states, Arizona for sure and Nevada, because that

13:09

is what Democrats hope will boost abortion

13:11

rights turnout. I mean, we

13:14

don't think it'll make a difference, much of

13:16

a difference in Montana and Ohio, which is

13:19

where the two embattled Democratic Senate incumbents are

13:21

running for reelection. I mean, that's an important

13:23

point too. I mean, abortion matters. It matters

13:25

a lot in politics until it doesn't. I

13:27

think that it's important to remember that Republican

13:30

governors like Mike DeWine in Ohio and

13:32

Brian Kemp in Georgia handily won reelection

13:34

despite signing restrictive abortion laws. When you're

13:36

talking about Texas and Florida, Ted Cruz

13:39

is up for reelection. Rick Scott, both

13:41

Republican senators, they're heavily favored to win

13:43

despite their own states having restrictive abortion

13:45

laws. I mean, it's an issue that

13:47

bends towards Democrats, but it's important to

13:49

remember that it doesn't mean

13:51

electoral defeat for a Republican candidate. They

13:54

can outrun popular opinion on this issue.

13:56

That's right. But there's also a flip

13:58

side to that in very, very red

14:00

states. states like Kansas, where a statewide

14:02

referendum enshrining abortion rights in the Constitution

14:06

passed overwhelmingly, Kansas isn't any less red,

14:09

but you have to assume that a

14:11

lot of anti-abortion rights voters

14:13

voted for that referendum. In other

14:16

words, they were not willing to

14:19

make Kansas a constitutionally

14:22

anti-abortion state because they care about freedom or

14:24

some other reason, but it's a complicated issue.

14:26

Well, and that also gets back to the

14:28

priorities question, right? Is that if abortion is

14:31

not your top priority, maybe it won't sway

14:33

you against Trump, but you very well might

14:35

be a person who would vote for Trump,

14:37

but also would vote for a ballot measure

14:40

for abortion rights in your state. There are

14:42

a lot of cross-currents, complex voters out there.

14:44

Yeah. All right. That is it for us

14:47

today. We'll be back in your feeds tomorrow

14:49

with the Weekly Roundup. I'm Susan Davis. I

14:51

cover politics. I'm Danielle Kurtzleben. I cover the

14:53

presidential campaign. And I'm Mara Liasen, senior national

14:56

political correspondent. And thanks for listening to the

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