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the show. Enjoy the show. Enjoy

0:42

the show. That

0:46

was so cute. I actually feel calmer. And

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I didn't think that that was possible after

0:51

this week. So thank you for that. That

0:53

was lovely. Yes. Hey there, it's the

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NPR Politics podcast. I'm Deepa Shivaram. I cover

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the White House. I'm Jimena Busti and I

0:59

cover politics. And I'm Domenico Montanaro, senior

1:02

political editor and correspondent. Today

1:04

on the round up, how resilient

1:06

are our democratic institutions? Big

1:08

question, but let's start here. Donald Trump

1:11

is now a convicted felon and spent

1:13

this morning continuing his attacks on the

1:15

judicial system. So we're going to be appealing this

1:18

scam. We're going to be

1:20

appealing it on many different things. He wouldn't allow us

1:22

to have witnesses. He wouldn't allow us to talk. He

1:24

wouldn't allow us to do anything. The

1:27

judge was a tyrant. OK, there,

1:29

Jimena, you are in New York outside

1:31

Trump Tower, I believe, where Trump gave

1:33

his remarks. What was the scene like

1:36

this morning? So this morning, it all

1:38

started pretty calm and there weren't a

1:40

lot of people gathered outside yet. Obviously,

1:43

that's not the case right now. You

1:45

can probably hear a lot of talking,

1:47

people walking around. Different crowds have gathered

1:49

outside of Trump Tower, where Trump gave

1:52

his speech inside to a crew of

1:54

TV reporters, print reporters, us, of course,

1:56

on several reporters were gathered. And he

1:58

reiterated a lot of the. same claims that

2:01

he has been telling us outside

2:03

the courtroom down in downtown

2:05

Manhattan, which is that he believes that

2:07

the judge is biased. He believes that

2:09

this is a political tool against him,

2:12

all without evidence, of course. And

2:15

he continues to rail against the entire

2:17

process, the entire judicial system. And

2:20

calling the judge a tyrant, like we just heard in

2:22

his remarks. Domenico, I mean, these

2:24

attacks against the judicial system, the judge,

2:26

as we heard Trump say, they've kind

2:28

of been like par for the course

2:30

for a lot of Republicans at this

2:32

point. I mean, we've heard rhetoric like

2:34

this from House Speaker Mike Johnson, Republican

2:37

Senator Josh Hawley, Representative Matt Gaetz basically

2:39

saying that this trial, the judicial system

2:41

overall is a sham, right? I mean,

2:43

Josh Hawley was on Fox this morning

2:46

saying that this was an assault on the Constitution.

2:48

I mean, it's kind of worth

2:50

noting how common now it is to

2:52

kind of make these refrains. Yeah, it's

2:54

not surprising, but still kind of shocking,

2:56

honestly. I mean, being able to consistently

2:58

and quickly, immediately move to saying that

3:00

this was a scam. You know, you

3:02

have the Speaker of the House saying

3:04

it was a shameful day in America.

3:07

Trump's allies and the cadre of Republican

3:09

officials who are trying out to be

3:11

VP, sort of unofficially, all saying the

3:14

same thing, speaking from the same playbook.

3:17

And you know, you wind up having this

3:19

hyper partisanship, mostly because of this

3:21

conservative insulation that we're seeing where

3:23

they have an entire media echo

3:25

chamber that's telling them this

3:28

is all made up, this is

3:30

just politics, and stick to the

3:32

playbook and stay on the team.

3:35

And then on the other side of the equation here, I

3:37

mean, this isn't exactly something that the Biden White House or

3:39

a lot of Democrats are sort of trying to fill the

3:41

void with, right? Like you don't

3:44

really see a lot of strong rhetoric coming out saying

3:46

the opposite necessarily. And that has been interesting to

3:48

watch. Yeah, you know, nothing changes the fact

3:50

that a jury of Trump's peers, 12 people

3:53

unanimously convicted him. And no matter

3:56

what probably happens in this election,

3:58

there isn't probably an enough time

4:01

for a conviction, even if it's

4:03

overturned, before Trump winds up being

4:05

on the ballot in November, and

4:07

he has convicted felon as part

4:10

of his unofficial title. And

4:12

you know, that's definitely something Trump did not want,

4:14

had been prepping for. That's why you see the

4:17

sort of outrage on the right the way it

4:19

is, because they know that this is a serious

4:21

threat to him. On the other side, when you

4:23

have President Biden who has said basically nothing about

4:26

this at this point, even his campaign has said,

4:28

you know, it was really important here is voting

4:30

in November, which is something by the way Trump

4:32

agrees with saying that the real verdict is in

4:34

November. But

4:37

I'm curious to see how he winds up

4:40

using this or not in some of these

4:42

big tentpole events that we have coming up

4:44

the rest of this year. Yeah, and it's worth

4:46

pointing out that there is a sense from this White

4:48

House that like this is not a process that they're

4:50

involved in, right? Like they are being accused of making

4:52

a political that it's a political witch hunt. Of

4:55

course, Biden has nothing to do with the decisions

4:57

being made in that New York court. But

4:59

it is notable, I think, that that hasn't really been their

5:02

tendency to sort of jump back in and sort of

5:04

use different rhetoric to counter it. Jimena, I

5:06

mean, how much of this is going to be

5:08

part of the campaign message for Trump and

5:10

for Biden? I mean, when it comes to advertising,

5:13

messaging, fundraising, I mean, how is this factoring

5:15

in so far? Well, for

5:17

Trump, it already is a part of

5:19

the messaging. And it has been for

5:21

a while. We have heard him throughout

5:23

several campaign rallies and campaign stops talk

5:26

about what he perceives to be this

5:28

great injustice happening out in New York,

5:30

in this liberal city that is filled

5:32

with all this crime, allegedly. And he's

5:34

using that in every chance that he

5:36

gets. But we also saw as soon

5:38

as the conviction came down that

5:41

his website is auto directing

5:43

to a fundraising website where

5:45

he is labeling himself a

5:47

political prisoner and is asking

5:49

people to donate to help

5:51

him out. The

5:53

Trump campaign is already boasting having

5:56

raised millions of dollars through this

5:58

website overnight. However, it's important

6:00

to include the caveat that those

6:02

numbers, that total, cannot be fully

6:05

verified until we get the latest

6:07

FEC filings. You know, I think

6:09

what's interesting here when it comes to President

6:12

Biden is the title president, right? He's really

6:14

having to walk these two worlds because he's

6:16

both president and candidate Biden at the same

6:18

time. And he's been very reluctant to show

6:20

that he is going to be weighing in

6:22

on this, to talk about Trump as a

6:25

convicted felon, to talk about all of the

6:27

legal woes that Trump has because he hasn't

6:29

wanted to show himself to

6:31

at all be influencing the Justice Department or

6:33

to be influencing state prosecutors. But he's really

6:36

going to have to make a decision here.

6:38

We've only got five months to go. Yeah, I will

6:40

say one thing that will be really interesting to see

6:42

is if he talks about it a little more openly

6:45

in fundraising, where he doesn't have the cameras on, you

6:48

know, it's a different sort of scene. So we'll

6:50

be watching for that. And we have some big

6:52

events coming up that are going to show us

6:54

whether or not and how each of them frames

6:56

this because June 27th, less than a month from

6:58

now, we have the first debate that they agreed

7:00

to. Then you have both conventions over the summer.

7:02

Then finally, the September 10th debate. So those are

7:04

really going to be some big tentpole events to

7:06

watch. What does this really change at

7:09

the end of the day? Like the folks,

7:11

Domenico, who maybe were seeing coverage of this

7:13

or knowing that Donald Trump was facing some

7:15

kind of verdict, they

7:17

maybe already thought that he was guilty or there are

7:19

folks on their side who already thought, you know,

7:21

he was innocent. And then this was a political

7:24

scheme. So really, with this decision coming out, I

7:26

mean, does this actually change anyone's

7:28

minds at the end of the day? Yeah, it's tough.

7:30

We're going to have to see. I mean, I think

7:32

this is a moment in American politics, a moment in

7:34

American history. I think there were a lot of people

7:37

who weren't paying that close attention to this trial who

7:39

are going to be starting to tune in to figure

7:41

out what was Trump convicted of. And

7:44

then they're going to go to their favorite news

7:46

outlet for that. And if they're Republican leaning independent,

7:48

for example, and they go to Fox News or

7:50

conservative media, you know, Trump did nothing wrong. And

7:52

they're going to be more on board if they're

7:55

going to maybe more mainstream outlets, they might have

7:57

a different take on this. But already

7:59

before. going into this, the latest NPR, PBS,

8:01

Newshour, Marist poll that came out this week, found that

8:03

only 17% of people

8:05

said that they would be

8:08

less likely to vote for Trump if he was

8:10

found guilty. Some of those are partisans. It also

8:12

less likely doesn't necessarily mean that's what they're going

8:15

to do at the end of the day. I'm

8:17

really looking at some of these voter

8:19

groups that Biden is struggling with, like younger voters,

8:21

for example, they were among the highest to say

8:23

that they could have their mind changed. One in

8:26

five said that they would be less likely to

8:28

vote for Trump if he was found guilty. One

8:30

in five also said that they'd be more

8:32

likely to vote for Trump if he was

8:34

found not guilty. And only 54% of them

8:36

said that they definitely have their minds made

8:38

up. So can Biden use this to try

8:40

to bring over some of the groups that

8:42

he's been struggling with, I think is an

8:44

important thing to watch over the next few

8:46

months. Yeah, we'll have to keep an eye

8:49

on that. All right, we're going to take

8:51

a quick break. Hemena, great work on covering

8:53

this trial. Thank you so much for joining

8:55

us. Thank you. And when we get back,

8:57

investigative reporting exposes a lot more questions on

9:00

behavior by Supreme Court justices. Hello

9:03

again. So after we take this, we did

9:05

get to hear from President Biden directly before

9:07

making remarks about Israel's war in

9:09

Gaza. He made a very brief

9:12

statement about the verdict in New

9:14

York. After careful deliberation, the

9:16

jury reached a unanimous verdict. They

9:20

found Donald Trump guilty on

9:22

all 34 felony

9:24

counts. Now he'll

9:26

be given the opportunity as he should to appeal

9:29

that decision just like everyone else has

9:31

that opportunity. That's how

9:34

the American system of justice

9:36

works. And it's reckless, it's

9:39

dangerous, it's irresponsible for anyone

9:41

to say this was rigged just

9:44

because they don't like the verdict. Biden

9:46

didn't take any questions. All right, we'll be back

9:48

in a moment. and

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we're back with Kerry Johnson. Hey, Kerry.

11:23

Hey there. OK, so the theme for today's

11:25

roundup is the way public figures can and

11:27

can't be held accountable, right? And

11:30

just to lay out what's happening here, the New

11:32

York Times reported that two flags, one associated with

11:35

Trump's election denial movement and

11:37

another associated with the Christian nationalist movement,

11:40

were flown outside of homes connected to

11:42

Supreme Court Justice Samuel Alito. Alito

11:45

says that the election denial flag, which

11:47

is basically the American flag flown upside

11:49

down, was raised up by his wife

11:51

in response to a dispute with neighbors

11:54

and isn't related to the Stop

11:56

the Steal movement. Kerry,

11:58

given the context of all this, though, So it's still

12:00

kind of concerning, right? Well,

12:02

a lot of Democrats in Congress

12:05

and a lot of people in

12:07

the legal community have raised questions

12:09

about this specifically about whether Justice

12:11

Alito should recuse himself, disqualify himself

12:14

from hearing or deciding at this

12:16

point two cases related to January

12:19

6, 2021, one involving former President Trump

12:21

and whether he enjoys some form of

12:23

immunity for his actions on and around

12:25

that day. And a second case involving

12:27

a January 6 rioter who argues the

12:29

Justice Department has misused a statute

12:31

against him. Depending

12:34

on how the Supreme Court rules in that

12:36

case, it could imperil convictions of hundreds

12:38

of other rioters on that day. Yeah.

12:41

And I mean, Alito is refusing to

12:43

recuse himself from any cases over this

12:46

and Democrats have responded, right? We did

12:48

see some movement about that in the Senate. What was

12:50

going on there? Yeah.

12:53

Several senators, including Dick Durbin, Democrat

12:55

from Illinois, chairman of the Judiciary

12:57

Committee and Sheldon Whitehouse of

12:59

Rhode Island had actually written on

13:01

John Roberts, the Chief Justice of the

13:04

United States, asking about all of these

13:06

issues. And this week, Justice

13:08

Alito responded, not the Chief Justice. Justice

13:10

Alito sent a letter saying he's not

13:12

going to step aside from deciding these

13:14

cases. He said he had nothing whatsoever

13:17

to do with the flying of the

13:19

upside down flag. He said

13:21

his wife makes her own decisions and

13:23

he respects her right to do that. He

13:25

also said, my wife is

13:27

fond of flying flags. I

13:29

am not. She was solely responsible.

13:32

He says that nothing in this

13:34

whole controversy implicates him

13:36

having to disqualify himself. And

13:39

so he's just not going to do it. And this is just

13:41

pretty unusual, all of this

13:43

to begin with. But like for a Supreme

13:46

Court justice to kind of go out on

13:48

his own, send this letter, like this is

13:50

not something we normally deal with. It is

13:52

not something that normally happens, although I will

13:54

point out that Justice Alito in the past

13:56

has reached out to reporters at Fox News

13:59

and has penned. op-eds in the Wall

14:01

Street Journal amidst criticism

14:03

of him by investigative outlets

14:05

like ProPublica and others. So

14:08

he does not exercise his right to remain

14:10

silent on the face of these controversies. He

14:12

seems to want to make his own case,

14:14

whether it's persuaded people who disagree with him,

14:17

hard to say at this point. You know, the

14:19

thing is, this is DC, right? Everyone's

14:21

spouses have jobs. Sometimes

14:23

they're high profile jobs. Sometimes

14:26

those lives intersect. This

14:28

is a flag at your home, right? And

14:30

you're saying that I couldn't really

14:32

tell her to take it down. She's half

14:34

homeowner. So, you know, what can I do

14:37

really? Shrug emoji. I mean, I know

14:39

that conservatives are buying this, but it's

14:42

hard for me to believe that a lot

14:44

of people, you know, are saying that that

14:46

makes a lot of sense to them. You

14:48

know, one thing that's interesting about this

14:50

whole debate is that a law professor,

14:53

Steve Vladek formerly of the University of

14:55

Texas about to join Georgetown has

14:58

argued that we're thinking about it

15:00

all wrong, that we shouldn't be

15:02

talking about recusal here. We should

15:04

be talking about good behavior and

15:06

how things look to reasonable people

15:08

and how justices respond to public

15:10

controversy is clearly in the

15:12

heartland of how we should evaluate them.

15:15

And by that standard, he seems to argue

15:17

that Justice Alito is not doing a

15:19

very good job and that there are

15:22

plenty of reasons to question why he's

15:24

hearing these cases and whether

15:26

he's truly impartial about them. The weird

15:28

thing, I guess, about these interesting

15:31

times that we live in where we

15:33

are having these conversations, I mean, there's

15:35

not exactly like a system to necessarily

15:37

hold these justices accountable or maybe there

15:39

is and it's not really be used

15:41

before. Like how do we deal with

15:44

this? You know, the Supreme Court has

15:46

really resisted any kind of oversight from

15:48

Congress or anyone else. In

15:50

fact, Chief Justice John Roberts has been

15:52

out there saying, including earlier this week,

15:54

that these are matters of judicial independence

15:56

and separation of powers. He refused to

15:59

even meet with Democratic lawmakers because he

16:01

basically told them it would be a

16:03

really bad look and so the justices

16:05

have adopted some kind of Ethics

16:08

code for themselves, but there's no

16:11

enforcement mechanism And it's going

16:13

to be very very hard for Democrats in

16:15

Congress or even Litigants who have cases before

16:17

the Supreme Court to make these justices do

16:19

anything They do not want to do because

16:22

they're in charge of whether they want

16:24

to recuse or not individually You know

16:26

the Supreme Court is like the last

16:28

stop in American democracy in a lot

16:30

of ways, right? They settle the disagreements

16:32

on the biggest issues that we have

16:34

in this country and public perception is

16:37

really really important Trust in the Supreme

16:39

Court is really important and that's been

16:41

on the decline in recent years Not

16:43

just since the Dobbs ruling that overturned

16:45

Roe But before that after Ruth Bader

16:47

Ginsburg died and Amy Coney Barrett was

16:49

appointed to take her place and Democrats

16:52

were upset because Mitch McConnell

16:54

Republican leader had stopped Merrick

16:56

Garland from being appointed that when Barack Obama

16:58

tried to appoint him so this goes back

17:01

away even before that because Republicans will say

17:03

that this goes back to the 80s and

17:06

Appointments that Democrats blocked back then so there's

17:08

been a lot of You

17:11

know really partisan feelings on this

17:14

But it hadn't bled over necessarily

17:16

into the public the public had

17:18

trusted the Supreme Court the FBI

17:20

a lot of other pillar institutions

17:22

in a democracy and now it

17:24

has bled over into the public where they're sort

17:26

of You know looking at the Supreme Court in

17:29

a way like it's another political branch Well,

17:31

yeah And because it is now all politicized

17:33

folks are thinking of the Supreme Court as

17:35

a political entity Which it never was supposed

17:37

to be a political entity in

17:39

theory It's kind of coming

17:41

up on the campaign trail a little bit to

17:43

Mexico. How is that sort of factoring in for both

17:45

Biden and Trump? Well, I mean, you know,

17:48

I mean I go when I think about the

17:50

campaign trail and I think about judges I often

17:52

tell people that you know people vote on things

17:54

like the economy which a president has very little

17:57

control over and they Don't vote on things like

17:59

judges and foreign policy, which a president has

18:01

much more control over. It's hard to

18:03

argue that there wouldn't be a very

18:05

different Supreme Court today had Hillary Clinton

18:07

won. And certainly we saw in the

18:09

2020 election, Democrats saying they wanted to

18:11

pack the Supreme Court, they wanted to

18:13

expand the court to be able to

18:15

add justices so that they could water

18:17

down the strength of conservatives on

18:19

the court. It is a huge

18:21

issue and it should probably be a voting issue. You

18:25

know, Deepa, President Biden famously

18:27

was in charge of the Senate

18:29

Judiciary Committee for many years. Some

18:33

people on the left, to the

18:35

left of Biden for sure, has been kind

18:37

of critical of the White House and Biden

18:39

himself for not taking on the Supreme Court

18:41

more often. What's coming out of

18:43

the White House these days? It's pretty silent overall.

18:45

This is not something, especially with this whole upside

18:47

down flag Alito situation. You know,

18:49

this is not a White House that really wants

18:51

to weigh in. They sort of like to keep

18:53

those boundaries in place, if you will. But

18:56

I will say one place where like Biden and

18:58

Harris too, they don't hesitate to bring up the

19:00

Supreme Court is on reproductive rights. Like they talk

19:02

about it in regards to dobs all the time.

19:04

And that I feel like is their campaign

19:06

kind of connector with voters where they

19:08

say you're angry about, you

19:10

know, all these abortion restrictions coming up all over

19:12

the country. Well, look who put those justices on

19:14

the court. This is Donald Trump. So that's their

19:17

kind of connector to bring the court

19:19

back into the picture. But you're right. We don't

19:21

really see Biden weighing in.

19:23

To my mind, this issue

19:25

is really underappreciated on the campaign trail.

19:28

You know, Justice Alito is 74. Justice Clarence Thomas is

19:30

75 years old.

19:34

Justice Sonia Sotomayor is 69 years

19:37

old. The next president of the United

19:39

States could have the opportunity,

19:42

depending on the decisions of these justices and

19:44

their health, to a point two or three

19:46

more justices. And that would be that would

19:49

be an enormously consequential move for either party.

19:51

I'm really shocked that hasn't come up more

19:53

in this campaign season so far. But again,

19:56

we still have five months to go. All

19:58

right, we're going to leave and

20:00

when we get back, it's time for Can't Let It Go. This

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21:35

we're back and now it's time for Can't Let It Go. That's

21:37

the part of the show where we talk about the

21:39

things that we just cannot stop thinking about,

21:41

politics or otherwise. Domenico, kick it off for

21:43

us. So what I can't let go of

21:46

is the spelling bee which took place in

21:48

the DC area. I'm always amazed with these

21:50

kids who wind up doing this because I

21:52

can't. The winner was Bruhut

21:55

Soma And I Just want you

21:57

to kind of listen a little bit to the

21:59

final. The of the round here where

22:01

he had to decide how to spell some

22:03

of these words which I would just you

22:05

know for myself off the stage where you

22:07

know. He's

22:10

a. Job

22:13

our sales. Or

22:16

pathology. A

22:19

high? yeah I know. lightning. I didn't

22:21

really do like I was reading. Be

22:23

a visit. Satisfy her. Fine. I thought

22:25

I saw. A bad dream? Have you

22:27

know the words that aren't words that's actually

22:29

crazy? Okay, wait, so do you have the

22:32

definition of what. Abs. Sale mean luckily

22:34

for that and winning word and Sale was

22:36

the winning words I wasn't as try spell

22:38

it. Breathing. As the he already

22:40

did I think. He said there wasn't even there are

22:42

better than I did in their. Says it's not

22:44

about an accounting. Apparently it's about descending.

22:47

It's descent and mountaineering by means of

22:49

a rope looped over a projection above

22:51

I omitted. are you oh so I

22:53

don't even sapphire time mountain climbers use

22:55

of so. I'm going to have

22:58

sale no such as from think so.

23:01

Oh and let their breaker.

23:04

That was the. Tie breaker: I think of lightning around

23:07

with the cyber. oh my gosh, Yeah. Okay

23:09

also let's just take a be and point out

23:11

that this is a twelve year. Old kid out.

23:13

I heard a story I think on

23:15

Npr some years ago about House Daily

23:17

to study the dictionary. read it over

23:19

and over again. You gotta know the etymology

23:22

to my ago, come on. In the

23:24

through Clary Wow, I'm from and

23:26

friends won't Congrats to brought that's

23:28

pretty amazing. Carried take it

23:30

away. My. Can't let it

23:32

go is that alcohol is no

23:35

longer going to be served in

23:37

the stands of the French Open

23:39

the same as tennis tournaments. After

23:42

multiple episodes where players complained about

23:44

unruly behavior, the worst to my

23:46

mind was that a player complained

23:48

that somebody in the stands. Spit.

23:51

Out chewed gum at the

23:54

player with cs. now oh

23:56

that's unhinged. disgusting. And then

23:58

there were other. complaints about

24:00

loud comments and other stuff.

24:03

So no more booze for you

24:05

in the sands at this uh... Dang

24:07

it! I was trying to go to the French

24:09

oven. But also does this just mean people

24:11

are like sneaking in little flasks as they

24:13

enter? Like I kind of love the potential

24:15

for nonsense to happen. You're taking me back

24:17

to college days and I'm going to take

24:19

the fifth. Yeah. Deepa,

24:21

what about you? Okay, so I have kind of a funny

24:23

can't let it go, but I feel like it really works

24:26

for today specifically because it

24:28

is the last day of AAPI

24:30

Heritage Month. And my thing that

24:32

I can't let go of is that earlier this week

24:34

our lovely colleague Asma Khalid just came up to

24:36

me in our office and was just like, hey,

24:38

do you want this mango from Pakistan? And

24:41

obviously you would never say no to

24:43

a question like that. And Asma had

24:46

the incredible opportunity to obtain

24:48

a lot of mangoes from

24:50

Pakistan, which if you guys don't know, mangoes

24:52

they are just... they hit different.

24:55

They are made different, the fibers are

24:57

different, it's sweeter, it's just better all

24:59

around, and you can't buy them here.

25:01

So it is a genuine treat to

25:03

have had just one tiny little mango

25:05

this week, absolutely made my day. I

25:07

have so many memories of like cutting mangoes

25:10

in our kitchen with my family and like the way

25:12

you kind of score the mango and eat it with the spoon

25:14

and you suck on the seed and there's just

25:16

like fibers in your teeth and juice running down

25:18

your arms. Like it is just the epitome of

25:20

summer to me and just such a fun way

25:22

to like feel really connected with your culture and

25:25

your homeland and your family and things like that.

25:27

So all of that from like a tiny little

25:29

fruit that I got today

25:31

was very kind of her to share. And

25:33

that is what I can't let go of.

25:35

That sounds so amazing. But central question, did

25:37

she share her source with you? Are

25:39

you going to get your own secret? All I heard

25:42

is that involved a guy with like a

25:44

trunk full of mangoes potentially outside the airport. I

25:46

don't know any details. This mango

25:48

fell off a truck. Yeah, amazing. I

25:50

need to do some digging, some

25:52

potential investigative journalism to learn more. I will let

25:55

you know or maybe I won't and I'll just keep

25:57

them all for myself. Okay, too. All

26:00

right, we're going to leave it there for today.

26:02

Our executive producer is Muthoni Maturi. Our editor is

26:04

Eric McDaniel. Our producers are

26:06

Jenn-Yoon Han, Casey Morel, and Kelly Wesinger. Special

26:09

thanks to Kelsey Snell and Lexi Schapittle. I'm

26:12

Deepa Shivarom. I cover the White House. I'm

26:14

Divinika Muntanar, our senior political editor and correspondent. And

26:16

I'm Kerri Johnson. I cover the Justice Department. And

26:18

thank you for listening to the NPR Politics podcast.

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