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1-888-Recovery. This

2:44

is Michael Cohen and you're listening

2:46

to the Mayakolpa Podcast. One

2:48

of the truly frightening aspects of last week's

2:50

riot was that it shined the light on

2:52

how truly divided we are as a nation.

2:56

While some 80 million voters repudiated

2:58

Donald Trump at the ballot box,

3:00

there was still a record number,

3:02

some 74 million, who felt the

3:05

opposite. This

3:14

is what must be reckoned with on

3:16

the eve of the most important presidential

3:18

transition. Are we truly

3:21

a pluralistic nation? The glorious

3:23

multicultural mosaic of Stacey Abrams

3:25

and Reverend Raphael Warnock? Thank

3:28

you so very much. I

3:30

come before you tonight as

3:33

a proud American and as

3:35

a son of Georgia. My

3:38

roots are planted deeply in Georgia

3:40

soil. A

3:42

child who grew up in the Caton Homes

3:44

housing projects of Savannah, Georgia.

3:48

Number 11 out of 12 children. A

3:51

proud graduate of Morehouse College and

3:54

the pastor of Ebenezer Baptist Church, the

3:56

spiritual home of Martin

3:59

Luther King, Jr. and

4:01

Congressman John Lewis. Or are

4:03

we the darkness, the cracking, the

4:06

rolling, angry mob seeking to stop

4:08

history's forward progress? Oh!

4:12

Oh! Oh!

4:16

Oh! Oh!

4:19

Oh! Oh!

4:25

I'm afraid at the moment that we are both. To

4:28

deny the extent of how much racist

4:30

and extremist thought has wound itself

4:33

into an American mainstream, is

4:35

to practice some kind of toxic positivity.

4:38

It cannot be wished away. To

4:40

merely look at what happened at the Capitol

4:42

and dismiss it as the actions of a

4:44

violent fringe is to put your head in

4:46

the sand. You may want

4:48

to shout, this is not who we are. Only,

4:51

it is who we are. And it must

4:53

be dealt with, or this will never end.

4:56

Everybody in there, it's just a disgrace. It's

4:58

a disgrace. That entire building is still a

5:00

treasonous traitor. Yes, sir! Death

5:02

is the only remedy for what's

5:04

in that building. According to Reuters,

5:06

federal prosecutors offered an ominous new

5:09

assessment of last week's siege of

5:11

the U.S. Capitol by President Donald

5:13

Trump's supporters, saying in

5:15

a court filing that rioters

5:18

intended to capture and assassinate

5:20

elected officials. As

5:22

they comb through a mountain of

5:25

evidence, including hundreds of thousands of

5:27

still pictures and videos, federal

5:29

prosecutors are beginning to see just

5:31

how serious they were. Let's be

5:33

very clear about this. This was

5:35

well organized. It was organized online.

5:38

There was the goal of killing

5:41

Nancy Pelosi. There

5:43

was the goal of killing Mike

5:45

Pence. Put that together, you

5:47

have this mob that's focusing on decapitating

5:50

the head, of our constitutional government. The

5:54

interesting part of what's happening, and

5:56

potentially more frightening, is who

5:59

these people are. and where they come from. Many

6:02

of those arrested have been

6:04

normal business owners, lawyers, members

6:06

of law enforcement, teachers, and

6:08

former military officers. You

6:10

would not look at them and say they were

6:13

fringe characters. Rather, they are

6:15

like the song from Sesame Street,

6:17

the people from your neighborhood, a

6:19

florist, the owner of a gas station,

6:22

a soccer coach, an accountant, and PTA

6:24

mom. Oh,

6:27

who are the people in the

6:30

neighborhood? I think we should have

6:32

gone on in and take the

6:35

senators out by the hair of the

6:37

head and turned them in and said,

6:39

no more. I will let you meet

6:41

each day. Oh, look who's coming now.

6:44

We have to do what we can. They

6:59

weren't living in an underground bunker somewhere off

7:01

the grid. These were regular,

7:03

everyday people. They lived and worked

7:05

among us. The difference being that

7:08

they have been brainwashed and fucking

7:10

radicalized into the magma cult and chewing

7:12

on. May

7:15

you make it in, sir!

7:19

May God bless you! May

7:21

God send

7:25

me over the bridge! This

7:31

is what the philosopher and writer

7:33

found out in the evening by the

7:35

meniality evil in 1963. Arendt

7:38

was sent by the New Yorker to

7:40

cover the trial of Adolf Eichmann in

7:42

Jerusalem. Her final essay

7:45

for the magazine offered a sobering

7:47

reflection on how evil spreads and

7:49

takes hold. She positioned

7:51

that men like Eichmann could hold

7:53

power and their belief system adopted

7:56

by larger society, not because he

7:58

represented some radical evil. Rather,

8:00

the evil in itself was quite mundane

8:02

and normalized. USA! USA! USA! USA! We

8:08

respect the law. We were good people. The

8:11

government did this to us. We

8:13

were normal, good, law-abiding citizens. And

8:15

you guys did this to us.

8:17

We want our country back. We

8:19

are protesting for our freedom right

8:21

now. That's the difference. Thus, the

8:23

rioters, these magma stalwarts, exist not

8:25

in some hidden capacity, but very

8:27

much among us. We want

8:30

and need them to be monsters, as

8:32

it's that much easier to dismiss this entire

8:34

period as a terrible aberration.

8:37

Had it just been the Proud Boys

8:39

or the Oath Keepers or the Three

8:42

Percenters, it's easier to dismiss. Ah, fuck,

8:44

they're just crazy. But when

8:46

it's the town librarian or your kid's

8:48

teacher who's ready to die for a

8:50

civil war against liberal traitors and is

8:53

ready to hang the vice president, what?

8:56

That's an entirely different problem. Take

8:59

the case of Jenna Ryan, a

9:01

Frisco, Texas real estate broker and

9:03

life coach who took a private

9:05

jet to Washington to participate in

9:07

the riot. I mean, they are taking

9:09

our country from us. And

9:12

this is a prelude to

9:14

the war that isn't supposed to happen when

9:17

we are not messing around. We

9:19

flew by a private jet. God

9:22

wanted us here today. I didn't

9:24

know anything about this place. For

9:27

the first time here, we're gonna have to

9:29

put our hands on it. Oh,

9:32

no, no, no. She posted updates to

9:34

Facebook with photos of the rampage and

9:36

captions described how she answered the call

9:38

for the president to storm the Capitol

9:40

as a prelude to going to war.

9:43

She has since been arrested, but it

9:45

shows the extent to which people, regular

9:47

people, were gleefully participating in the chaos.

9:49

Yeah, because they can't stop her. They

9:52

said somebody in there is like shot

9:54

in the face. I don't care. Shoot

9:56

me in the face. You know what? I

9:59

will frickin' fight. for our country. I

10:02

want to sell your half now. All

10:04

we caricature them is clowns, the

10:06

fur-clad shaman in the rotunda building.

10:09

But when these people are revealed to be

10:11

the furry fabric of our communities, that

10:14

is something else entirely different. It

10:17

means that they are us, and we

10:19

are them, and that it's

10:21

the nality of evil. Quite simply,

10:23

it looks in the hearts of

10:25

everyday people, and it takes someone

10:27

like fucking Donald Trump to activate

10:29

and normalize those sentiments, that

10:32

they were amplified through social media and

10:34

Fox News made it that much easier

10:36

to spread. And that's

10:38

where we are now as a nation, on the

10:40

eve of Joe Biden's inauguration. We

10:43

are not healed. We are deeply

10:45

sick, and the prognosis does not look

10:47

good unless we reckon with these truths

10:49

about ourselves. This is treason.

10:53

This is treason. This

10:55

is insurrection. This is

10:57

rebellion, period. I

11:01

have heard people with looking

11:03

at small protests in Portland, Oregon,

11:06

where people were tear gassed, beaten,

11:11

kidnapped, and they said, no, no,

11:13

no. Whatever you do to those questions is

11:15

OK, because we have to have

11:17

law and order. We have to have law

11:19

and order. This is

11:21

rebellion. It is treason. It

11:24

is lawlessness. It is unacceptable.

11:27

And we are on a glide path at

11:29

this point to having

11:31

to look down the barrel of

11:34

possible civil war. Part of the

11:36

larger issue is that Donald Trump

11:38

may be finished as a viable

11:40

political figure, but his tenure versus

11:42

slew of mini Trumps for whom the

11:45

MAGA platform is gospel and political norms

11:47

are meant to be obliterated. This

11:50

next generation takes its power and

11:52

purpose from the darkness I described

11:54

above. In some respects,

11:56

they are smarter, slicker, and less

11:58

prone to self-destruction. than Trump, thus

12:01

more capable of doing some real

12:03

fucking damage. What's

12:05

more, they have no real political

12:07

convictions. They are nihilists. Mad

12:10

fucking Ghetts believes in nothing more than

12:12

the naked accumulation of power. His

12:15

only concern, the news cycle, the next

12:17

Fox News hit, and the adulation of

12:20

the MAGA hordes. At

12:22

the state level, the MAGA influence is

12:24

undeniable in its takeover of the GOP.

12:28

Its members maintained an almost

12:30

religious devotion to Donald Trump.

12:38

And now, for the

12:40

main event, there's been a

12:42

lot of talk this past week about accountability.

12:45

We need to now hold ourselves accountable

12:47

as a nation for how we got

12:50

to this place in history. That means

12:52

rooting out those who supported the

12:54

January 6th rioters, as well as

12:56

those who helped Trump overturn the

12:58

selection. Of

13:00

the full concentration, Project Lincoln

13:03

would become an ambitious push to punish,

13:05

match up the President, but those who

13:07

had helped enable him at every

13:09

turn to politicians to find his

13:12

ears. They are being

13:14

targeted with air, billboards, and

13:16

an equally ambitious press campaign

13:18

to stop corporations from donating

13:21

or supporting Trump or the MAGA agenda

13:23

or rip, or not to the

13:26

state. Leading this effort is by much stress. Lincoln

13:29

provides a provisor and ad man

13:31

with Wilson, who more than anyone

13:33

helped build the modern Republican party,

13:36

pre-Donald Trump. His

13:38

political ads not only helped elect

13:40

them, Mayor Rudy Giuliani, but also

13:42

George Herbert Walker Bush. In

13:45

early conduct and never Trump-ed, Wilson

13:47

has written two New York Times

13:49

number one best sellers. The first

13:51

was entitled, Everything Trump Touched and

13:53

Died. And lamented

13:56

the Republican party's realignment behind Donald

13:58

Trump in 20 years. In

14:00

the 1920s, he released his second

14:02

book, Running Against the Devil, a

14:04

plot to save America from Trump

14:06

and Democrats running themselves. In

14:09

addition, Wilson hosts the widely

14:11

popular New Abnormal podcast for

14:13

the Daily Beast with writer

14:15

Molly Jung-Fast. My

14:17

conversation with him leads deep into the

14:19

thorny questions of identity and who we

14:22

are in the post Donald Trump world,

14:24

in addition to helping me understand

14:26

who the actors were pulling the

14:28

schemes behind the scenes in the

14:31

lead-up to January 6th riot. So

14:33

let's listen now to that conversation. So

14:36

today, the House is voting

14:39

to impeach Trump for incitement

14:41

of insurrection. Now assuming

14:43

that this passes along party

14:45

lines, how do you see

14:47

the vote going down in the Senate? And

14:49

will there be enough GOP defectors to actually

14:51

convict the president? Yeah, I think Mitch McConnell

14:53

is going to try to split the baby

14:56

on this one, Michael. I think what he's

14:58

going to do is let

15:00

his members vote as they want, which means you could get

15:02

to the number. But I

15:04

think he's going to delay the actual vote until like the

15:06

19th. So he

15:08

can say, oh, well, I voted to convict

15:10

and whatnot. I

15:13

let my people have their conscience on it. But

15:15

he's going to wait until the 19th when

15:18

there's nothing more that can be done. Their

15:24

resolution will say, we can convict him and

15:26

he's removed from office on the 20th. So

15:29

it's not going to change the ballgame. I think McConnell is just

15:31

trying to have it both ways. It

15:33

reminds me so much, Rick, of

15:35

when I was testifying before the

15:37

House Oversight Committee, because I'm

15:40

watching as these Republican

15:42

and the Democratic representatives are

15:45

standing up for their two

15:47

minutes of speech time. And

15:50

it reminded me again so much of my

15:52

House oversight, because if you think and if

15:54

you listen to it, the Republicans that are

15:57

up there and speaking, they're all saying the

15:59

same thing. bullshit, which is why

16:01

are you guys doing this? Why are

16:03

you up to this? You know, there's

16:05

only another six days left before which

16:07

he's gone, right? What's the point? You're

16:10

being divisive. You're the ones that are

16:12

now causing the stir. What's your opinion

16:14

on that? Because that makes me fucking

16:16

furious. Yeah, my opinion, my opinion is

16:18

they should fuck right off. Those guys,

16:21

they're, they're the chicken shit that

16:23

is in the Republican caucus, in

16:25

the House and the Senate both. It

16:27

is amazing to me. These guys,

16:29

these guys, these people would have

16:32

killed them if they found

16:34

them. They would have killed them. And this, you know,

16:36

mobs do what they do, Michael. When there's a mob,

16:38

when a mob is running around and they're angry and

16:40

they're violent, they wouldn't have known, oh, that's a Republican

16:43

or that's not a Republican. They would have said, oh,

16:45

that's a, that's a member of Congress. They oppose Trump.

16:47

Let's get them. And these guys,

16:50

he literally sent a mob down there

16:52

to kill their colleagues and

16:54

to assault their colleagues and to invade that

16:56

Capitol. And it's

16:58

like, oh, well, you know, we're just going to, we,

17:01

we, well, it's almost over. We should

17:03

all be peaceful. We should sing hands and sing, whole

17:05

hands, sing kumbaya. Get the fuck out of here. Well,

17:07

if you think about it also, they're

17:10

so adamant about, and when I'm

17:12

talking about the Democrats now are

17:14

adamant about, you know,

17:17

indicting Trump and impeaching him for

17:19

his behavior, which they rightly should.

17:21

And then of course you have

17:23

those GOP members that are also

17:25

so infuriated that they want an

17:27

impeachment. Of course we know Mitt

17:29

Romney is definitely in that camp.

17:31

And now my understanding is Mitch

17:33

McConnell might be as well, but

17:35

I certainly didn't see any of

17:37

them having this type of a

17:39

moment when Trump was threatening me

17:41

and my family. And I turned

17:43

around and the only one that

17:45

really came to my rescue, right? What

17:47

there were a few of them was, was

17:49

Elijah Cummings, Adam Schiff, Jerry

17:52

Nadler, Eric Swalwell, right? You know,

17:54

these individuals came to my, to

17:56

my aid and at least they

17:58

sent in advice. to

18:00

the president, that what you're doing to

18:03

Michael Cohen and his family through your

18:05

Twitter feed is illegal. It's witness tampering

18:07

and obstruction of justice. But nobody took

18:09

the mantle up from me, and yet

18:12

all of a sudden, here they are,

18:14

our fearless leaders,

18:16

right? Now they're getting a taste of

18:18

what it's like to be on the

18:20

opposite side of Donald fucking Trump like

18:23

I was, like my family was, where

18:25

we can't even walk together anymore for

18:27

fear that God forbid one of these

18:29

lunatics will end up behaving in the same

18:31

manner they did at the Capitol. What's

18:34

your take on that? Yeah, look,

18:36

I mean, they set a precedent with you

18:38

in particular. They set a precedent where this

18:40

guy could get away with death threats and

18:43

get away with intimidation at a level that you'd

18:45

never imagine in a president. I mean, Nixon

18:48

never even got anywhere in the ballpark of

18:50

the kind of shit Trump said about you,

18:53

okay? And so

18:56

it's always been striking to me that

18:58

now that they're safe, okay, he doesn't

19:00

have a Twitter feed anymore. He's out

19:02

of here. SDNY is after him. The

19:05

New York state attorney is after him.

19:07

He's fucked financially. This guy has the

19:09

power of his bullshit left, but they're

19:11

still intimidated by it. They're still terrified

19:13

of it. But

19:15

they should have broken that, Republicans and

19:17

Democrats, because the way he behaved, in

19:21

your case, it was particularly egregious

19:23

because he was clearly trying to suppress

19:25

you from telling the truth about his

19:28

relationships with in business

19:30

and everything else. Let's also

19:32

not forget the New York DA,

19:34

because the New York City, the

19:36

district attorney here, Cyrus Vance Jr.,

19:38

has a criminal case

19:40

pending. They say that the attorney

19:43

general's case is predominantly civil, which

19:45

is where that'll go. His

19:48

case, and he is all over this,

19:50

is criminal in nature. But

19:53

again, just going back to these Republicans,

19:55

listening to them speaking off of the

19:57

same party line.

20:00

the same bullshit and it's each and

20:02

every one of them once they're two

20:04

minutes, right, so that they can go

20:06

to their constituents and say hey I

20:08

fought for Donald Trump, we vote for

20:10

you know vote for me in the

20:13

re-election. Yeah. Or they turn around and

20:15

they say you know I was against

20:17

Donald Trump even if they're Republican simply

20:19

because their constituents feel that the

20:21

attempted coup of the US government

20:25

is even too much for them. It's

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22:28

would be bad for elections to support a coup?

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I mean, crazy, right? But,

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22:36

minutes of posturing, you saw that when you were

22:38

testifying, they get up there and they shoot the

22:40

shit for two minutes. And it's

22:42

so they can hopefully get 10 seconds of

22:44

that two minutes on Fox or

22:47

on CNN or on MSN. And

22:50

I think one of the big problems here is that,

22:53

you know, this is something that requires longer

22:55

than like the little kabuki dance they're doing.

22:57

This requires an actual debate about what the

22:59

fuck this guy has done to us and

23:01

to this country and what and what would

23:03

have happened if he got away with it. Because

23:06

you know, this, this guy has gotten away with shit

23:08

his whole damn life. He'd never been held

23:10

to account. He's gotten away with this shit kind of shit

23:12

over and over and over and over again. And

23:14

I guarantee you when he thought, okay, those people

23:16

are marching down there, no matter what happens, I

23:18

can I can get out of it. And

23:22

he can't this time. Well, you know,

23:24

and these Republicans that are standing up

23:26

there for him and so on, there's

23:28

such a bunch of fucking ass clowns

23:30

just watching them say the same thing

23:32

over and over again. It's amazing that

23:34

people are still watching. For sure. And

23:37

all of a sudden, they're like, oh, I condemn the

23:39

violence. It's so terrible. And, you know, but

23:42

a lot of them, you'll notice, still aren't

23:44

saying the magic words. They're not saying Joe

23:46

Biden is the legally elected president of

23:49

the United States. They're still

23:51

afraid of it. They're so afraid that, you

23:53

know, the mob is going to come out. The

23:55

Trump's mob of people is going to come after

23:57

him or Fox will go after him or something.

24:00

It's weird. I mean, and I guess you'd know

24:02

this better than almost anybody, Michael. He

24:05

gets in people's heads, and he

24:07

kind of lives there, and he

24:10

causes PTSD or something just

24:12

because he's such a fuck. Well,

24:15

that was the basis of my book,

24:17

Desloyal, right, the Trump Derangement Syndrome from

24:19

a narcissistic sociopath. But let me ask

24:22

you this, Rick. If Trump is convicted

24:24

in the Senate, what do you think

24:26

happens to his tens of millions of

24:29

MAGA loyalists? Will impeachment break

24:31

their spell, or will

24:33

they simply just transfer their loyalty to

24:36

the next asshole in line, like a

24:38

Josh Hawley or Ted Cruz? Look,

24:41

Trump is going to say, oh, I'm running

24:43

again. He's not going to run again.

24:45

He's just going to suck as many millions as

24:47

he can out of the MAGAs. But

24:50

I do think he looks at

24:53

politics now as a business model. So

24:56

he's going to try to pretend he's

24:58

running no matter what happens, win or

25:00

lose in court. He's going to say,

25:02

I'm going to be president again. And

25:05

we all know it's bullshit, but he's going to still

25:07

grift probably a couple hundred million dollars out of

25:09

these people. But yes,

25:11

a Josh Hawley or a Ted Cruz

25:13

or a Tom Cotton or Marco Rubio

25:16

or whoever else, they

25:18

all think they're going to run like the Trump

25:20

playbook and inherit Donald Trump. They

25:22

think they're going to get Trump's base out of

25:25

this thing. I don't think so. Personally, I think

25:27

he's too much of a specific brand. And

25:29

I think that audience doesn't sound

25:31

going to fuck about policy. You

25:34

know, if it's not Trump, they'll think,

25:36

oh, well, Don Jr. will do in a pen. She's

25:38

another Trump. And he

25:40

speaks that like like fluid MAGA asshole

25:42

dialogue that they all speak. You

25:44

know, that that windy, whiny fuck. You're

25:47

pressing me. It's

25:51

truly amazing. But you know, he's

25:53

going to have to grift off of

25:55

these model loyalists because every

25:58

single day you're going to. see

26:00

more and more shit happen to

26:02

Trump. And I said it, that

26:04

one of the things that I

26:06

was hoping with my involvement in

26:08

all of these different investigations is

26:10

that we dismantled the Trump organization

26:12

and we fucked him up in

26:14

his finances that he goes away

26:16

for good. And that's

26:18

why, of course, as I said, Cyrus Vance

26:21

with the tax returns and so on. But

26:23

now you may have seen today de

26:25

Blasio finally did

26:29

something I've been calling for for at

26:31

least the last three, four months. They

26:34

canceled four property

26:37

contracts, lease deals that

26:39

they have with the Trump organization. The

26:41

Wollman rink that Trump decided to rename

26:44

the Trump rink, which is not supposed

26:46

to be. Laska rink up at 110th

26:48

and Central Park North.

26:51

They also got rid of the carousel in

26:53

the middle of Central Park that Trump took over. And

26:56

his golf course, the one in

26:58

Yonkers called at Story Point, the

27:01

Trump Lynx. So that's by

27:03

the way, now, according to what de

27:05

Blasio said, that that has about a

27:08

income stream for the Trump

27:10

organization of about 17 million

27:12

dollars. That's inaccurate because

27:14

the numbers are substantially higher. I

27:16

believe that Wollman rink alone was

27:19

about 15 million dollars of net

27:21

profit of all of his assets that

27:23

are income producing go bye bye. And

27:26

the only shit that he has are

27:29

assets that are negative income producing that

27:31

cost him money. Well, where is

27:33

he going to go get the rest of the money from? Right.

27:35

He's not going to get it from Deutsche Bank.

27:38

They're gonzo. Where's he going to get it from?

27:40

Ladder capital from Alan Weisselberg, the CFO's son that

27:42

worked there, the only other institution dumb enough to

27:44

loan Donald Trump money? I don't think so. I

27:47

don't think I don't think Donald Trump or his

27:49

kids or any of them and God

27:51

willing, the same with Kushner. I don't I don't

27:53

believe any of them should be able to get

27:55

a loan from anybody. That's just my opinion. Oh,

27:57

listen, I completely agree with you.

28:00

I think I think if you end up

28:02

being in business with Donald Trump when this is over

28:04

first off. You're a fucking idiot second

28:06

off You know you are

28:09

chasing you are chasing a risk

28:11

overhang like nothing else

28:13

imaginable because He's

28:16

all this guy's gonna be in court and you know

28:18

this he's gonna be in court every fucking day for

28:20

the rest of his Life, it's

28:22

never going away now. This is done.

28:25

I have lawsuits against him Yeah, I've

28:27

lost against him for failure to pay

28:29

the legal fees as well as

28:31

you know as well as other matters I

28:33

mean then with the DA the Attorney General, and that's

28:35

just the state of New York But

28:37

I do Rick wanted to discuss with you

28:39

a tweet from you this morning, and it

28:42

went like this every

28:44

person Squealing like a hog

28:46

stuck in a gate over the Wall

28:48

Street Journal op-ed against Project Lincoln is

28:51

hilarious But my victim

28:53

hood is the battle cry of

28:55

the Trump GOP Yeah, suck it

28:57

up buttercup thought y'all were tough

28:59

guys now unpack this for my

29:01

listeners if you could first off

29:04

What is the project Lincoln plan that has

29:06

them all up in arms at this moment?

29:09

Well what we've done Michael is we've committed

29:11

that we're gonna identify two groups of people

29:14

one major donors To

29:16

Trump to the McConnell to Kevin McCarthy

29:18

in the house And we're

29:20

gonna make sure that they that that America

29:22

knows and their clients know That

29:25

they're donating to people who try to over to the government

29:27

and to support Donald Trump Secondly

29:29

and what the Wall Street Journal was specifically

29:31

really digging in on Was

29:33

we said we're gonna identify The

29:37

tier one targets who worked for Trump the

29:39

real bad guys who worked for Trump

29:41

who implemented policies who enabled him in

29:43

ways Because it's

29:46

our belief that as Americans we have the right

29:48

to speak out that nobody in the fucking world

29:50

should hire a Stephen Miller ever

29:54

That that that John Kelly

29:56

doesn't need another job in the

29:58

in the private sector and

30:01

that these people need to be held accountable. I don't

30:03

really care about some like GS7 kid in

30:05

the labor department who's 25 years old. I

30:08

don't care about that. I care about

30:10

the people that enabled and empowered him.

30:12

And I wanna make sure that there's

30:14

a consequence and there's accountability for what

30:17

they did in service of

30:19

a man who was a criminal president and

30:21

in service of a man who was a president

30:24

who sought to overthrow our government. And

30:28

there are a lot of people who are just freaking

30:30

the fuck out. Let me tell you, I worked for

30:32

George Herbert Walker Bush administration, 1989 to 1993. And

30:38

I'm incredibly proud of it. I was

30:40

a kid, I was 24 years old, 23 years old. I

30:43

was a kid, I was working for Dick Cheney when he

30:45

secretary of defense. I was incredibly proud of that. It's been

30:47

on every damn resume I've ever done. Well,

30:49

these people who worked

30:52

in the White House, the administration ordinarily, they'd

30:54

be out bragging about it. They'd be saying,

30:56

I was the deputy assistant secretary of

30:58

whatever. Well, now they're like,

31:00

oh fuck, if I worked for Trump, I'm

31:03

gonna be burned. I can't go into corporate

31:05

America. Corporate America doesn't want people like Trump

31:08

style people around them. They don't want

31:10

the people that didn't engage. And they

31:12

don't want the people that did all

31:14

this crazy shit overseas. They don't want

31:16

people that have been involved in all

31:19

the failures and fuckups of this guy. And

31:21

so the fact that we would list

31:24

their names, their public names, and we're not

31:26

giving people their home phone numbers. We're not

31:28

giving them their personal email addresses. We're just

31:30

saying, hey, John Smith worked in the department

31:32

of Homeland Security, and he was the guy

31:34

who put the kids in the cages or

31:36

whatever. And so, these

31:39

guys are flipping the fuck out over

31:41

it. And you know what,

31:43

sorry guys, you as we like to say in

31:45

the link of pressure, you bought the ticket, you

31:47

take the ride. That's a

31:49

good quote. It's funny because right after you

31:51

put that out, my emails

31:53

and my texts started blowing up

31:55

on my cell phone. And

31:58

there were other groups that were trying to- piggyback

32:01

off of what Project Lincoln was

32:03

up and trying to do. They

32:05

actually asked me if I have

32:08

any lists or any identifying names

32:10

of individuals who are members of

32:13

Donald Trump's various golf clubs, um,

32:15

and you know, um, and

32:17

business associates of his, because they

32:19

wanted to call them out also.

32:22

So we're talking about individuals who

32:24

are members of, whether it's Mar-a-Lago

32:26

or Bedminster or Westchester, you know,

32:28

all the various different golf clubs,

32:30

cold snack, et cetera. Right.

32:33

All of a sudden I started

32:35

getting text messages and emails from

32:37

people who I haven't spoken to

32:39

obviously in years because they're Trump's

32:41

sycophantic fuck nuttles, right? Instead, they

32:44

want to know, are

32:46

you going to release my name as part

32:48

of that list? Because it went out there

32:50

viral, right? And I turned

32:52

around and I didn't answer them. So about an

32:55

hour later, did you get my

32:57

earlier email? Right? Is this still your, is

32:59

this still your email address? And is this

33:01

still your cell phone number? And I haven't

33:03

decided what the right thing to do, you

33:05

know, as of the moment is, but that

33:08

really would be something. Let them sweat brother.

33:10

Let them sweat. By the way, if

33:12

I was them, I would walk. I

33:14

would get the fuck out of that

33:17

club. Why would you support somebody who

33:19

wanted to overthrow this country? Somebody who

33:21

has created more divisiveness in this country

33:23

than any other president known on top

33:26

of that. You're supporting somebody and I

33:28

say this each and every time, a

33:30

racist. So if you're black and you

33:32

belong to one of the clubs or

33:35

you're brown or Hispanic or Indian, Donald

33:37

Trump fucking hates you. Don't you understand

33:39

that? He is a racist to the

33:41

core. He's a sexist. So how

33:43

would you bring your wife to a

33:46

club where the person who owns it

33:48

is a sexist or a misogynistic, xenophobic,

33:50

Islamophobic, homophobic, anti-semite? How the hell are

33:52

you supposed to become a member of

33:55

a club of somebody that has that

33:57

sort of ideology?

34:00

And then just stand. Michael, you're right on the

34:02

money there because the idea that

34:04

a lot of these people that joined Mar-a-Lago and

34:06

the other clubs, Trump National and

34:09

Doral and whatnot, the

34:11

idea that these people were doing it because

34:13

the wealthy ones that loved Donald Trump so

34:15

much, that it

34:17

was gonna be like access to power

34:19

and access to glamour and fame and

34:22

whatever, whatever their reasoning was. That

34:24

shit's out the window. I

34:26

cannot imagine there's gonna be a moment

34:28

where anybody wakes up and says, hey,

34:31

I wanna throw 200 grand in

34:33

initiation fee and dues tomorrow

34:36

Lago after tomorrow, or

34:40

after Wednesday particularly. I

34:43

can't imagine he's gonna retain a lot of these

34:45

properties. I suspect that, and

34:47

as we saw from the PGA, they were

34:49

like, yeah, we're not gonna play golf at

34:51

the Trump clubs anymore. That's not good for

34:53

our brand. Nobody's gonna want that on their

34:55

brand now. They're

34:57

not gonna wanna say, hey, it's

35:00

Chrysler sponsoring this or that golf

35:02

tournament at Trump Doral. No way,

35:04

no way. Well, Rick, how about, come join

35:07

Rick Wilson for his marriage over at Trump

35:09

Mar-a-Lago. Half your guests are gonna be like,

35:11

I wouldn't step fucking foot on that property.

35:14

So unless you find another place to go,

35:16

really, and that's where a big portion of

35:18

their money comes from. It's from these type

35:20

of events. Yeah, and the

35:23

idea that the clubs and the

35:26

golf courses were

35:29

enhanced by his presidency

35:32

seems to be true, but the idea

35:34

that they're gonna be destroyed by the fuck up

35:37

of this presidency also seems to be true. I

35:40

can't, it is hard for me

35:42

to imagine anyone, especially because a

35:44

lot of these dues end up getting paid. Like

35:46

if you're in a big law firm, sometimes they'll

35:49

pay your dues to join a certain club. I

35:52

can't imagine a big law firm or a corporate board

35:54

is gonna say, yeah, our CEO should be a member

35:56

of a Trump golf club. Get

35:58

the fuck out of here. No way. Yeah

36:00

discuss with me, please this

36:02

constant sense of right-wing Victimhood

36:05

and what that ultimately reveals

36:07

because personally if I hear

36:09

another magma Apologist right

36:11

wine about being canceled. I'm actually

36:14

gonna lose my shit and go

36:16

nuts, right? right, I

36:19

Have to tell you Michael. It's one of

36:21

the funniest fucking things of all time because

36:23

you know Like like Trump always plays this

36:25

like big macho figure, you know, oh kick

36:27

their ass beat them up You

36:29

know when we all know he's a soft bitch, right?

36:32

But he got into the heads of the

36:34

magas and he convinced them and they already believed

36:37

it Okay, they already believed it. He convinced them

36:39

that he would be the the

36:41

weapon of their revenge against the people that

36:43

look down on them I mean see Bannon

36:45

says that all the time. That's just like

36:47

saying oh the elites look down on you

36:49

and Trump isn't an elite It's

36:52

horseshit. But but the the

36:54

sense of victimhood is always there You know,

36:57

maybe you didn't get taken off of Twitter

36:59

and Facebook because you're being oppressed Maybe

37:02

it's because you're a fuckwit Maybe since

37:04

you're an asshole who's calling for revolution

37:06

and violent overthrow of the government call

37:08

me crazy But maybe actions

37:10

have consequences. I as a conservative

37:13

believe that you know what you do

37:15

you have to take responsibility for things you do

37:18

and the Trump world they don't Trump sort of like

37:20

gives them the excuse to say no, it doesn't

37:22

matter. I could do what

37:24

I want It's just it's just big tech

37:26

or big media or whoever there. They just

37:29

hate me because I'm not like them bullshit

37:31

They hate you because you're a fucking asshole

37:35

Yeah, right So project

37:37

Lincoln is actually doing a fantastic

37:40

job. I mean really fantastic job

37:42

So kudos to that in targeting

37:44

those lawmakers who align themselves with

37:47

the overturning of the election or

37:50

Supported the January 6 rioters

37:52

either tacitly through their actions or

37:55

as Trump apologist Yeah saying and

37:57

this really this really blew me

38:00

away saying it was in people

38:02

or other pokey bullshit. If you

38:04

can, lay out your strategy in

38:07

the wake of January 6th and

38:09

how it will manifest both online

38:12

and through other platforms. Sure. One

38:14

thing we know, Michael, is that

38:18

the vast majority, about 80% of Americans so

38:21

far in the polling, don't think a violent

38:23

overthrow of the US government is a good idea. That

38:26

tells you where the core nut

38:28

of the Trumpism is, around 20% of

38:30

America. It's still a scary number. We're

38:33

going to continue to make sure that people

38:35

understand not only did Trump call for

38:37

this, cause this, set it

38:39

in motion, incited at every turn, but

38:41

that there was a conspiracy of people

38:44

around him, both in Congress and

38:46

in the right-wing activist world. The

38:49

Republican Attorney General Association was doing

38:51

robocalls for this, stopped the

38:53

steal as an outright criminal enterprise headed

38:55

by Roger Stone and Ali

38:57

Alexander and these other people. We're

39:00

going to make sure people understand the story and the history so

39:02

it doesn't get revised. There's

39:04

some pretend version like, oh, it was Antifa.

39:08

We're also going to very much focus on

39:12

ensuring that Kevin McCarthy and Mitch

39:14

McConnell and the members of the

39:16

Senate and Congress, they're called on

39:18

to have an up or down

39:20

position on this. They're called on

39:22

to be forced to make a

39:24

publicly facing decision. We think

39:26

that if they don't condemn Trump, that

39:29

they are basically decided to be co-conspirators.

39:31

At that point, all bets are off.

39:35

Well, shame on them and all these

39:38

Republican members of the

39:41

Congress who ignored exactly

39:43

the same situation that took

39:45

place on January 6th, that

39:47

took place in Michigan, right?

39:49

Where they wanted to kill

39:51

the governor and they stormed

39:53

the Capitol in Lansing with

39:55

AR-15s. I mean, is

39:58

there really any difference between. between

40:00

the Capitol in Lansing and the

40:02

Capitol in Washington, D.C., it's

40:04

a government building, as far as I'm concerned. Right.

40:07

It's a government building. It's a place

40:09

where in our system

40:11

of government with a legislative, executive, and judicial

40:13

branch, one of the three branches, whether it's

40:16

the federal or the state versions of it,

40:19

resides. And

40:21

the idea that

40:23

armed terrorists

40:25

have decided it's socially and politically acceptable

40:28

to use violence or a threat of

40:30

violence against somebody, that's not America. That's

40:33

the goddamn third world. That's the fucking

40:36

Congo in the 1970s. That's

40:39

Paraguay in the 1970s. That's

40:43

Central America under Noriega.

40:45

That's crazy. That

40:47

idea that political violence is an

40:49

acceptable range of behavior in this

40:51

country. If you don't stop it

40:53

now, if you don't punish people for it now,

40:55

this is why I believe Trump must be impeached.

40:57

I don't even care if it's after the election.

41:00

He must be impeached because there has

41:02

to be a penalty for trying to

41:04

provoke an insurrection. There has to be

41:06

a penalty or you will get more of it.

41:08

If you don't punish bad behavior, you know what?

41:10

If your kid throws their plate of food on

41:13

the ground and you never punish them

41:15

for it, they'll keep throwing their plate of food

41:17

on the ground. If

41:19

your dog crops on the carpet and you don't punish

41:21

them for it, they'll keep cropping on the carpet. We've

41:25

got to take steps not only

41:27

in the Congress right now, but

41:30

we've also got to take steps as a

41:32

society and as activists and in the media

41:34

and everywhere else to hold these fuckers accountable.

41:36

You've got to say, you sided with the

41:38

wrong, you bet against America, first off, so

41:40

fuck you. You

41:42

tried to destroy our system of government, so fuck you.

41:45

It loops back, Michael, to what we're saying about

41:47

the fact that we're going to identify a lot

41:50

of Trump administration and Trump allies. Those

41:52

people knew what they

41:54

were doing. They didn't walk out the

41:56

door. They didn't leave. They didn't say,

41:59

fuck this. done, they say

42:02

a lot of them are still in the White House right

42:04

now, six days to go, and they know

42:06

what he's doing, they know what's happened, and it is

42:09

a comment on their moral character now,

42:11

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44:08

by. Granger. For the ones.

44:11

Who. Get it done. I'm

44:14

you, since you were talking about dogs, cropping

44:16

on the floor to two things came to

44:18

my first was the fact that many of

44:20

these. These. Sedition ists

44:22

right These insurrectionist that the

44:25

storm the capital. Basically

44:27

defecated on the floors in the Capital

44:29

He i spread it around some of

44:31

the offices. yeah and my other questions.

44:33

He was decent. found something to the

44:35

shit on the floor in the East

44:37

wing. You know, I I doubt it.

44:40

but ah, by Six is probably more

44:42

frequently than that. But

44:44

I'm in a as. You

44:47

know it, it was just. I've a friend of

44:49

mine who's a retired member cars been retired for

44:51

a for a wise quite is in his eighties

44:53

now. Ah, He said he had

44:55

a text message and he said. I.

44:57

Cannot believe what I'm watching. Because.

45:00

I can't believe what I'm watching is

45:02

is it saddens me so much Because

45:04

that is Not. That.

45:06

Does not Nancy Pelosi his house as

45:08

the people's house. That's. Not

45:11

as as any republican or democrat

45:13

cells as America's House. As

45:15

as as these people were breaking shit

45:17

and deprecating in it and smearing stuff

45:20

on statues and and and coincides off

45:22

the wall and breaking into offices. A

45:25

It is a sign that they are

45:27

disconnected culturally. From. The Civics

45:30

of America the I was. So I was

45:32

taken back to risk because I worked at

45:34

the con I worked there for in Nineteen

45:36

Eighty Seven Eighty Eight when I worked the

45:38

Congressmen kill Mokoulek on average just it's yeah.

45:40

Sure when I get when I was in

45:43

college, when I'm in college I worked and

45:45

then for Michael Dukakis for short time is

45:47

an odd during his Presidential run. And to

45:49

meet those though, that building is like a

45:51

museum and the I couldn't believe when they

45:53

when they desiccates on the floor and they

45:56

destroyed some of the the statues in the

45:58

in not in the hallways. it's It's

46:00

just disgusting. But you know, I will say my

46:02

mom is gonna get angry at me over this

46:04

next question that I want to raise To you

46:06

because my mom always said, you know shit my

46:09

mom You would think that

46:11

we were Christian turn the other cheek turn

46:13

the other cheek and every time someone turn

46:15

the other cheek is When I used to

46:17

throw a right cross, but you know, I

46:19

am actually taking great pleasure in watching Ivanka

46:22

desperately tried to position herself apart

46:24

from the magma riot from the

46:26

father and above the fray right

46:28

that she must face consequences

46:30

for her actions or her complicity

46:33

in her father's action Yeah is

46:35

the very first time that she

46:37

has had to truly reckon with

46:39

her father's Behavior in a real

46:42

and a material way the

46:44

same goes for all of

46:46

the Trump children I mean

46:48

listening to Don jr. Coked

46:50

out of his mind screaming

46:52

shit Rudy Giuliani screaming shit

46:54

Daddy has skated largely unscathed

46:57

his entire life Thanks to people like

46:59

me right from one mess to another

47:01

now that the halls are closing in

47:04

I'm sorry now that the walls are closing

47:06

in and the hallways, right? They all have

47:08

no idea what to do or where to

47:11

go discuss your thoughts with this would be

47:13

oh Well look Ivanka was

47:15

telling people in Florida. She wanted to run

47:17

against Marco Rubio She thought that

47:19

was gonna be her future and apparently she and Jared

47:21

have got a house in Miami now and all this

47:23

stuff. I I'm

47:27

gonna take a particular degree of pleasure in

47:29

watching Ivanka and Jared lose their fucking minds

47:32

Because they're they're not gonna have the world they

47:34

thought they were gonna have You

47:37

know, they're they're blocked out

47:39

now of the of the beautiful life

47:41

They wanted either in Florida

47:43

society or New York society So she's

47:45

gonna have to do increasingly I think

47:48

Sleezy deals with the Saudis and everybody

47:50

else to stay afloat if

47:52

he can and and you know knowing how the

47:54

Saudis work There's a good

47:56

likelihood that when he's no longer of any

47:58

use to them. He's out It's over

48:01

and Ivanka same thing I mean, she's

48:04

she's the mysterious lightness of

48:06

Ivanka's rise as a as a power

48:08

figure in the world Was generated folks

48:10

by a bunch of fucking PR people

48:12

constantly saying how wonderful Ivanka was to

48:15

reporters and pitching stories for her that's

48:17

over and no

48:19

matter what she does if Ivanka tomorrow changed

48:22

her whole life and went and worked with poor people for

48:24

five years in the inner city and Reformed

48:27

her whole attitude. She'd still have the

48:29

shitbird father of Donald Trump hanging over

48:31

her for the rest of her life.

48:34

So You know, I think she's

48:37

I think she's in a bad spot I

48:40

think Don jr. You know, I

48:42

mean I want to say this like Honestly,

48:44

I don't know a lot of people who struggle

48:46

with addiction in their lives Don jr. Needs help That

48:49

guy that guy is whacked out of his

48:51

fucking skull half the time. He

48:54

needs help But

48:56

he's gonna try to run for some ice

48:58

I predict Don jr. Is gonna move out

49:00

to like Wyoming or Idaho or Montana and

49:02

try to run for something That's my that's

49:04

my that's my sort of like

49:06

gut prediction because it'll be

49:08

a red state with a small audience They'll all

49:10

be very red. I'll be very Trumpy and

49:13

he thinks he could probably do it now He'd

49:15

be the worst fucking legislative official of any kind

49:17

ever Don always wanted to move out to Montana.

49:19

So it's funny that you say that Yeah,

49:22

no, I that's my that's my suspicion is that

49:24

that's what he's gonna do You know

49:26

Eric's just like I don't even know how Eric like

49:28

puts his own clothes on every day That guy's just

49:30

dumber than a bag of hair, but You

49:34

know, I think they're all fucked I think they're all in

49:36

trouble and I think they've all got a

49:39

very dark time ahead Yeah,

49:41

and I actually agree with you a

49:43

hundred percent regarding the Saudis, you know

49:45

Something that most people don't know is

49:47

I actually represented prior to my years working

49:50

for Trump I represented one of

49:52

the members of the royal family of Saudi

49:54

Arabia Right and I can tell you that

49:56

when they no longer have a use for

49:58

you. They know longer have the

50:01

use for you. So all of

50:03

these backdoor deals that Jared did

50:05

while flying off to Riyadh without

50:08

government clearance, basically he's taking time

50:10

on his own. And where is

50:12

he going? Now he's not going

50:14

to Colorado to Aspen like the

50:16

other members of

50:18

his social class or going down

50:21

to Florida to go check on that

50:23

$30 million piece of just dead property

50:25

that they bought. Now they have to build something

50:27

on it. That's just for the plot of land.

50:30

He didn't go there. He decided

50:32

to go ahead and go to

50:34

Saudi Arabia, not even to the

50:37

castle in Riyadh, but rather to

50:39

some farm with some horse farm

50:42

that Mohammed bin Salman has

50:44

in the outskirts so that

50:46

they can have a conversation,

50:48

really unaccompanied, unauthorized,

50:52

whatever backhanded deals

50:55

that Jared did on behalf of

50:57

Mohammed bin Salman or with Mohammed

51:00

bin Salman, it will

51:02

ultimately come out because Mohammed bin

51:04

Salman cares about very much like

51:06

Donald Trump, Mohammed bin Salman. He

51:08

cares about his safety of Saudi

51:11

Arabia and with Iran breathing down

51:13

at the borders of Saudi, they

51:15

need a Biden administration assistance. Otherwise

51:18

they will end up getting taken

51:21

over by one of

51:23

these Islamic extremist groups

51:25

and they will be out of

51:28

power and Mohammed bin Salman cares

51:30

about money as much as Donald

51:32

Trump cares about his. The only

51:34

difference is Mohammed bin Salman is

51:36

in control over his country. That's

51:38

the truth. Donald Trump wanted to be

51:41

in control of this country. That's exactly right,

51:43

Michael. bin Salman is

51:45

running that country like it's a monarchy.

51:50

Trump would like to have a monarchy but he's never going to get one.

51:54

I think we're in a position

51:56

right now where You're

52:00

going to see that old

52:04

Hemingway phrase about bankruptcy. It happens slowly and

52:06

then all at once. Donald

52:08

Trump's going to lose everything that he cares about

52:10

slowly and then all at once. I

52:14

think there was a time

52:16

in the last couple of years where

52:18

he may not like his

52:20

kids, but he saw them as useful ways to extend

52:22

the brand. I think there's going to be

52:24

a time in the next couple of years where

52:26

the catastrophic degree of

52:29

collapse in Trump's fortune

52:32

is going to iterate to them and it's going to be

52:35

a very bad outcome. Sure.

52:37

I totally agree. Now, I

52:39

keep hearing about this name,

52:41

Ali Alexander from Stop the

52:43

Steal and his ties to

52:45

both Congressman and the Trump

52:48

campaign. I'm curious what

52:50

you know about this guy and how

52:52

much inside help he received. Well, I

52:55

know of Ali. He used to go by the name Ali

52:57

Akbar. When

53:00

blogging became a big thing in the conservative world in 2008,

53:02

2009, and 2010, he hosted this thing

53:06

called the Bloggers' Convention or something like that

53:09

at CPAC. He

53:12

was always kind of a shifty guy. He

53:14

had had some arrests and convictions,

53:16

I think convictions, but I know for sure

53:18

arrests. It was stuff like,

53:20

I don't know, check fraud or, you know,

53:23

pony credit cards, something like that. It's

53:25

out there on Google. He

53:27

was always, he always ran with a really

53:29

creepy set of these

53:32

low-tier activists in Republican

53:34

politics. A

53:37

couple of years ago, he reinvented himself as

53:40

Roger Stone's latest facilitator. Head

53:43

project. Yeah, right. So

53:46

Roger started to like

53:50

stop the steal and Ali, I guess,

53:52

implemented it. But the guy has a profoundly

53:55

creepy reputation. He's a

53:57

super far-right extremist. just

54:00

basically a grifter. I mean the guy's been in a

54:02

number of these various super PACs that aren't really

54:08

super PACs or associations

54:10

that aren't really associations. He just does

54:12

whatever he's doing is

54:15

not... No one in real legitimate

54:18

Republican politics would go, oh man, we got to

54:20

get Ollie Alexander in here because that's what we

54:22

really did in this project. Nobody

54:24

ever says that. He's

54:27

a bad dude. Yeah, he's also in the right space

54:29

if he's looking for grifters hanging out with the Trump

54:31

campaign. Oh, for sure. No question.

54:33

Yeah, but no doubt. You know, we

54:35

talked about this before. Mitch McConnell's, you

54:37

know, turn against Donald Trump, for me

54:39

at least, is the most welcome news

54:42

to come from that side of the

54:44

aisle in a very, very long time.

54:46

Because it seems that finally, finally that

54:49

the GOP will break from its MAGA

54:51

spell and purge itself of Trump. At

54:53

least that's what we all hope. Discuss

54:56

with me, if you will, what

54:58

you believe was McConnell's reasoning. Was

55:00

it actually an act of

55:03

patriotism or simply cold

55:05

political calculus from the

55:07

Senate's dark overlord? A

55:09

hundred percent of

55:12

this is about Mitch McConnell

55:14

trying to frame up the 2022 Senate races.

55:19

He has seen, he sees the

55:22

future. And a lot of the

55:24

seats that are up in 2022 are not

55:26

in deep red MAGA states. They're in more

55:28

neutral states. It's going to be a much

55:30

harder set of assignments for

55:32

him in 2022 as

55:37

he goes forward because, you

55:40

know, these are

55:42

not Alabama and Mississippi and

55:45

even North Carolina. These are

55:47

going to be places that are much, much more diverse.

55:50

So he's going to try right now

55:52

to start burning Trump down so that

55:54

his people in 2022 are able to

55:57

get up on the curve. And

55:59

his people in 2022 are able to be in

56:01

a position where they might be able to win. And

56:05

that's purely what it's about. Believe

56:07

me, there is never anything

56:09

in Mitch McConnell other

56:11

than political expedience. That's

56:14

all he is or cares about. Yeah. Well,

56:16

he's not the only one you got,

56:18

Lindsey Graham too, because as I'm watching

56:21

the desperate flip-flopping of Lindsey Graham is

56:23

actually making me fucking nauseous. Have you

56:25

ever seen anyone beg more pathetically than

56:27

that guy? I mean,

56:29

it's repulsive. Right. It is

56:32

repulsive because last week he had enough.

56:34

And this week he's now with the

56:36

president on Air Force One, acting as

56:38

like the president's chaperone. Right. They're

56:41

sitting there, they're holding hands, right? They're commiserating. Someday

56:44

we will find out the dossier

56:46

of compromise that Trump held over

56:49

his head and other people's heads

56:51

to maintain their allegiance. Yeah. And

56:54

not figure out any other way

56:56

other than blackmail that has been

56:59

able to keep these folks on such a tight

57:01

leash. I learned the hard way

57:03

what it's like to break away. These

57:05

people should have at least had the

57:07

visine in their eyes to open their

57:09

eyes and be clear with what sort

57:11

of bullshit that Donald Trump will bring

57:13

into your home and the problems that

57:15

you're going to face by having that

57:18

type of a relationship with Donald Trump.

57:20

100% man. Discuss this with

57:22

me. Yeah, look, I

57:24

think there have been a lot of people in

57:26

DC, some of whom

57:29

thought they were just doing it for

57:31

power, but like a lot

57:33

of entrapments in the world, what

57:35

you thought was the

57:38

hot girl you were going to fuck that one night turned

57:40

out to be a honey trap. And

57:42

I would not put it past a lot of the

57:44

people around him to play

57:49

those kind of games and to dig dirt on

57:51

people. I mean, I know that they launched an

57:53

oppo guy on me and

57:55

dug through all my stuff, which is do

57:57

what you want to do. Lindsey

58:00

is, you know, he is a weird guy. He's

58:03

never been like a normal guy. And

58:08

whatever it was that made him

58:11

so ambitiously linked to Trump, we

58:13

don't know yet. We don't understand that

58:15

in a real way. And

58:19

maybe someday we will. But

58:22

he's always been, in

58:24

my mind, the worst of Trump's ass

58:27

kissers. He

58:29

kisses Trump's ass in ways that would

58:31

make a professional ass

58:33

kisser go, Hey dude, back it

58:35

up, ease it back, you're overacting,

58:38

Lindsey. I love Donald

58:40

Trump. He's one of my heroes. God, get

58:42

the fuck out of here. Rick,

58:44

you know the difference between an ass kisser and a

58:47

brown nose? Tell me. Depth

58:49

perception. Clearly,

58:53

clearly he has a real problem with fucking

58:55

depth perception. And he's not the only asshole

58:58

over there. You have Matt Getz that sits

59:00

there. I don't understand. He's another one that

59:02

is just, I swear as God is my

59:04

witness, I would love to end up sitting

59:07

in a boxing ring with him or an

59:09

MMA ring. I'd love to spin kick him

59:12

right in the side of his fucking head

59:14

for what he did to my family and

59:16

so on. And his fake apology that was

59:19

written by Sean Hannity that I put out

59:21

on my Twitter feed. You know, shame

59:23

on him. People like this should not be

59:25

allowed to run for Congress. They should not

59:27

be allowed to run for public office. I

59:30

know Matt from Florida Politics and

59:32

this, I don't know

59:35

if this will shock you or appall

59:37

you or disappoint you, but Matt Gaetz,

59:40

he doesn't believe in shit. He doesn't believe in

59:42

Donald Trump. He believes in Matt Gaetz. He

59:45

wants to be famous. He wants to be on Fox.

59:47

He wants to have a TV show on Fox. That's

59:50

what he wants. Just because Trump's ass. He doesn't

59:52

believe in anything. He's a nihilist. He's

59:55

like Tucker Cross. He doesn't believe in a fucking thing.

59:57

He just was playing the game, which makes it worse.

1:00:00

For me in that he's willing

1:00:02

to burn anybody down your family included

1:00:05

which makes it it makes it worse You know if you

1:00:07

believe in something deeply and you're and somebody's in the way

1:00:10

Maybe that's one thing you don't like it, but you can

1:00:12

at least see the ethos behind it His

1:00:14

just is he just wants ratings. He's wants

1:00:16

TV hits. He wants to boost his email

1:00:18

list. That's all he cares about It's

1:00:21

he's really an appalling human being Yeah,

1:00:24

I have no regard for him I

1:00:26

have no regard for my former friend

1:00:28

Sean Hannity and the way that he

1:00:30

has allowed his himself

1:00:33

to basically

1:00:36

fall into that that dumpster

1:00:38

of Donald Trump and and Sit

1:00:42

there and spew the shit that they

1:00:44

spew for God fucking sake Sean. All

1:00:46

right. I hope you're listening you scumbag

1:00:48

Here's the real fucking deal. They attacked

1:00:50

US Democracy, right?

1:00:52

I mean even even Fox is

1:00:54

acknowledging it But they cannot because

1:00:57

they're afraid they're afraid that it's

1:00:59

gonna interfere with their viewers They're

1:01:01

going to be afraid that their

1:01:03

ratings are gonna go down And

1:01:06

so they would rather destroy democracy

1:01:08

than their ratings and their and

1:01:10

their payday Tell me Rick Sarah

1:01:13

Longwell yesterday announced some new

1:01:15

50 million dollar pack

1:01:18

Called the Republican accountability Project

1:01:21

to provide financial support for

1:01:23

Republicans looking to break with

1:01:26

Donald Trump I mean

1:01:28

talk about another grifting group as

1:01:30

we all know money is still the coin of

1:01:32

the realm when it comes to political decision-making

1:01:36

Discuss with me how moves like

1:01:38

this as well as corporate America's

1:01:40

turn away from Trump Will

1:01:43

actually help this effort Well, the the

1:01:45

idea that corporate America is gonna walk

1:01:47

away from the Republicans is a powerful

1:01:49

one It is freaking them out like

1:01:52

it's freaking them out a lot, which

1:01:54

I'm really happy about And

1:01:57

we're pushing that pretty hard inside the Lincoln

1:01:59

Project Okay. You

1:02:03

know, politics is always about incentives and

1:02:05

deterrence. And at some

1:02:07

point, you know, if a

1:02:09

Lynne Cheney or an Adam Tenzinger or

1:02:12

Catherine Herrera Butler

1:02:15

stands up and says, fuck it, I'm done. I'm going to

1:02:17

vote to impeach this guy. And

1:02:21

they're from places where a Democrat can't win,

1:02:24

which they all are. You know,

1:02:26

you look at them and you're like, okay, do we want to tell

1:02:28

these people, you know, all is forgiven or

1:02:30

some is forgiven or you're on probation, you're going

1:02:32

to be okay if you throw the line from

1:02:35

here on. I think you kind of do.

1:02:37

I'm not in that business. You know, I

1:02:40

don't know what Sarah's plan is. I haven't

1:02:42

really read through what they're planning to do. But

1:02:47

it will be an interesting test because,

1:02:49

you know, if you're going to ever

1:02:51

rebuild a center right or conservative party,

1:02:53

you know, you're going to have to do a lot. You're

1:02:56

going to have to find some people eventually who

1:03:00

can replace the Trumpers, who can run against

1:03:02

the Trumpers. It's so weird. That's something I

1:03:04

haven't I don't have enough like Nostradamus in

1:03:06

me to figure out how that's going to

1:03:08

work yet. Yeah, for me,

1:03:10

I just see it as another financial

1:03:12

grift taking advantage of the fact that

1:03:14

Trump's an asshole. And that's what everybody's

1:03:17

calling because 50 million dollars super PAC

1:03:20

really isn't going to help you with

1:03:22

too many elections, not when the lowest

1:03:24

right amount that people are spending these

1:03:26

days are 20 million or a half

1:03:28

a billion for Georgia. I mean, I

1:03:30

don't see 50 million dollars. I mean,

1:03:32

it's just basically I think it's for

1:03:34

Longwell and others to use it like

1:03:36

the way that the Trump's are using

1:03:38

that super PAC that they that they

1:03:40

created. Laura Trump taking money like it's

1:03:42

going out of style. Everybody's on it.

1:03:45

Tiffany, Don Junior, you name it. The

1:03:47

whole fucking family's on the grill. The

1:03:49

girlfriend. The girlfriend

1:03:51

Kimberly Kimberly Guilfoyle. She's

1:03:54

a hot. She's a hot mess. Hey,

1:03:57

Rick, in the wake of the riot. There's

1:04:00

been a lot of reporting about QAnon

1:04:02

and its role in the events of

1:04:04

January 6th. How intertwined

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is a real and frightening characteristic

1:06:34

of the Republican Party as it is

1:06:36

now constituted. This

1:06:38

next cycle, there will be

1:06:40

more QAnon candidates, not less. There

1:06:43

will be more crazy conspiracy theories, theory

1:06:45

people, not less. This will

1:06:47

go in a very bad direction, in my

1:06:50

opinion, for the indefinite future.

1:06:54

Because believing in conspiracy shit is

1:06:56

easy. It's

1:06:58

comfortable because it gives you a coherent explanation

1:07:01

of the universe around you without having to

1:07:03

do too much work or to look at

1:07:05

uncomfortable ideas or topics. So

1:07:07

the idea that there's some secret conspiracy that

1:07:10

governs the world, it's got a

1:07:12

mental, like a cognitive kind of appeal to

1:07:14

some people. And a lot

1:07:16

of Republicans, and again, the victim culture,

1:07:19

they're like, oh, well, obviously, we're not losing

1:07:21

these races because we're losing these races. It's

1:07:23

obviously a secret George Soros

1:07:25

conspiracy with the media against us

1:07:28

or some other fucking elaborate bullshit,

1:07:30

right? So

1:07:33

I think we're going

1:07:35

to end up in

1:07:38

a position where an awful lot of people

1:07:41

who believe in this crap are going to run.

1:07:44

And an awful lot of people who don't believe in it,

1:07:47

but don't want to get in a fight with people who do, are

1:07:50

also going to run. It's a bad

1:07:52

outcome. It's amazing how it's always George

1:07:54

Soros, George Soros, George Soros, right? Hey,

1:07:58

MAGA folks, right? Republicans try

1:08:01

to find somebody else. Why not blame

1:08:03

it on fucking Bezos? I mean or

1:08:05

blame it on Elon Musk or one

1:08:07

of the other Individuals in the tech

1:08:09

world that have turned the Trump and

1:08:11

the Kushner people down in order to

1:08:13

do business with them as families Right.

1:08:15

I mean why not blame somebody other

1:08:17

than George Soros? It's about time. They

1:08:19

found somebody else All right, the guy

1:08:21

you know, I used to joke about this Michael, you know George

1:08:23

Soros He's not like he's gonna be like almost 90 years old

1:08:25

now, right? I said something

1:08:28

that recently I said listen if George

1:08:30

Soros was this like super socialist mastermind

1:08:32

who was gonna take over America He

1:08:34

sure sucks in his job He's

1:08:36

been like the boogie man for like 40

1:08:39

years among Republicans fuck out of here. Yeah,

1:08:41

they made him into dr. Evil It's

1:08:44

become increasingly clear that Inside

1:08:47

the larger riot was even a

1:08:49

more frightening group of hardcore Magga

1:08:52

extremists who were determined to take

1:08:54

hostages and murder lawmakers I mean

1:08:56

we all saw that the one

1:08:58

guy had AR 15 another

1:09:00

had 15 mile atop cocktails Another guy

1:09:02

had a whole slew of those zip ties But

1:09:05

yet they didn't succeed and

1:09:08

that's only thanks to the

1:09:10

bravery of the Capitol Police

1:09:12

Officers who actually stood their

1:09:14

ground despite great personal danger

1:09:16

to themselves and they should actually all

1:09:19

receive The medal the freedom of honor

1:09:21

instead of fucking assholes like Jim Jordan

1:09:23

or Devin Nunes, right? Who went hiding

1:09:25

under any desks or you know into

1:09:27

the bathroom because they shit on themselves

1:09:30

But discuss with me if you would what

1:09:32

you're hearing from your sources because I know

1:09:34

you have a lot of sources about

1:09:37

these folks and what else is lurking

1:09:39

on the horizon the FBI and the

1:09:41

Department of Homeland Security and Right

1:09:43

now and the DOJ are all

1:09:45

freaked the hell out They are

1:09:47

expecting on the 17th and on the 19th and on

1:09:50

the 20th Those

1:09:53

three days apparently various armed insurgent groups

1:09:55

are talking about coming to the Capitol

1:09:58

They are they are I

1:10:01

did hear something that one of the reasons Chad

1:10:03

Wolf resigned at the Department of Homeland Security was

1:10:05

he informed the White House of what was coming.

1:10:08

He informed them the intelligence they had.

1:10:11

There was an imminent risk of another

1:10:13

round of violent activity, and

1:10:15

they fired him for it. And

1:10:17

they said, we don't care. And

1:10:21

I hope we hear his story soon so we can get more

1:10:23

clarity on that because the fact

1:10:25

that we're in a position right now where

1:10:29

armed groups feel like they can

1:10:32

even discuss coming to Washington to

1:10:34

stop the inauguration of President-elect

1:10:36

Biden is an outrage. And

1:10:39

it should also terrify Americans. If

1:10:41

you want to live in a

1:10:43

country where we change the president

1:10:45

by an election and a transition, then you're

1:10:47

an American. If you want to live in

1:10:49

a country where you can change the president

1:10:51

by a coup with the armed militia groups,

1:10:53

then you want to live in Libya or

1:10:56

Sudan or Yemen.

1:11:01

That's not America. So I'm

1:11:03

very hopeful that the

1:11:05

DOJ, FBI, DHS, and others are

1:11:07

taking this seriously. I know

1:11:10

the Joint Chiefs of Staff have issued

1:11:12

a memo to every uniformed

1:11:15

soldier and said,

1:11:18

don't be involved in this ship. If you

1:11:21

are, you're out. And you'll face

1:11:23

criminal charges. So

1:11:30

I'm guardedly optimistic that

1:11:32

we'll get through the next few days. But

1:11:36

it won't be because Donald Trump calms things down

1:11:38

or does the right thing. It'll be because our

1:11:41

men and women in uniform and our law

1:11:43

enforcement agencies step

1:11:45

up and engage this thing in a

1:11:48

constructive and powerful way and don't let

1:11:51

the fuck around happen.

1:11:53

And we're really fortunate to have the

1:11:55

most talented law enforcement in the world,

1:11:57

whether it's the FBI, whether it's armed.

1:11:59

police officers. We by far and they

1:12:02

they anytime I see a police officer

1:12:04

as I'm taking my walks throughout the

1:12:06

city I'll always walk over and thank

1:12:08

them for their service because God

1:12:11

knows if they weren't there and they

1:12:13

didn't do the things that they did

1:12:16

and especially the one who lost his

1:12:18

life by being beaten to death with

1:12:20

a fire height with a fire on

1:12:22

extinguisher. Let me tell you that guy

1:12:24

that guy should be automatically placed on

1:12:26

death row but you will remember something

1:12:28

Rick I said on MSNBC right after

1:12:30

the election of Joe

1:12:33

Biden when it was still unofficial but they

1:12:35

were all saying Joe Biden is going to

1:12:37

be the winner. I said I forget

1:12:40

which program whether it was Ari or

1:12:42

Alex Whitter um Joy Reid. I

1:12:44

said the most dangerous time in

1:12:46

American history is going to be

1:12:49

from January 6th to January 20th.

1:12:51

Absolutely. Because this is when Donald

1:12:53

Trump feels like the caged rat

1:12:56

that he is and

1:12:58

he is panicking now because he no

1:13:00

longer has the protection of the office

1:13:02

of the presidency in order to stop

1:13:05

the thunderous litigation that's going to be

1:13:07

coming against him. Oh yes. That he

1:13:09

knows is going to destroy him financially

1:13:11

as well as put him and others

1:13:14

his family as well behind

1:13:17

bars and honestly I am

1:13:19

so relieved that Biden won

1:13:21

because I want you to

1:13:23

think about something too. What

1:13:25

would have happened if Trump won? My

1:13:28

belief is that he would have declared

1:13:30

himself the dictator of the United States,

1:13:32

president for life. He would be thinking

1:13:34

every single day over the course of

1:13:36

the next four years how to remain

1:13:38

in power for four more years or

1:13:40

eight more years because that's just who

1:13:43

he really is and that kind of

1:13:45

brings me to my next question to

1:13:47

you. As a leading

1:13:49

member of the Trump resistance you

1:13:52

like I do must face a

1:13:54

deluge of hate mail right death

1:13:56

threats and other attempts at intimidation

1:13:58

from these magma fanatics. I

1:14:00

know what I receive on a daily basis,

1:14:03

but I'm curious How has

1:14:05

it been for you if you worry

1:14:07

for your own personal safety and now

1:14:09

seeing what these lunatics are willing to

1:14:11

do? What are you doing to protect

1:14:14

yourself? Well, we have we have a good

1:14:16

amount of security and And

1:14:20

I live in a I live in

1:14:22

a place that's fairly isolated it's

1:14:24

not easy to get to me and

1:14:27

my home is is Not

1:14:29

arranged in a way that it's easy to like just

1:14:31

walk up to it We were pretty long driveway a

1:14:33

lot of security a lot of dogs And

1:14:37

and to be perfectly candid we're armed as

1:14:39

fuck Florida's a

1:14:41

state with very as you know very lax gun

1:14:43

laws and so You know,

1:14:46

I also have you know, look I travel we have

1:14:49

security when I travel, you know, we can take we

1:14:51

take precautions at all times But

1:14:54

luckily my kids are grown and they're

1:14:56

out of the house, which is good and

1:14:59

so, you know the dogs

1:15:01

as you probably can hear right now, they'll bark at anything

1:15:03

and You know

1:15:05

and look when I'm in public I in

1:15:07

Florida particularly I carry a

1:15:09

concealed weapon It's be I have now

1:15:11

for almost four years The

1:15:14

the death threats have been very specific. They've come

1:15:16

to my house that come they've they've gotten up

1:15:18

in my face in public We

1:15:21

get I Not

1:15:23

a day goes by I don't get some

1:15:25

email or phone message or or Facebook

1:15:28

message or Twitter DM or Twitter message. I'm

1:15:30

gonna kill you. I'm gonna kill your family.

1:15:32

I'm gonna kill your dogs I'm gonna kill

1:15:34

you, you know, I'm gonna murder you in

1:15:36

front of everybody on a live stream. That's so shit all

1:15:39

the time and look I

1:15:43

know at this point that 99 point nine nine nine

1:15:45

nine nine nine nine percent of these people are just

1:15:47

jack off But

1:15:50

I'm also, you know, I'm also realistic

1:15:52

I If something goes wrong,

1:15:54

I hope I'm I hope I have

1:15:56

time to you know, at least defend

1:15:58

myself and And if not, you know, when

1:16:00

your number's up, your number's up. Yeah, you know, it's

1:16:03

interesting because I used to

1:16:05

have a concealed carry here

1:16:07

in New York, which is extremely difficult to

1:16:09

not last. That ain't easy. By

1:16:11

the way, by the way, I have a Florida

1:16:14

concealed license that has not been revoked. I have

1:16:16

to find out whether because I'm a felon that

1:16:18

it is revoked, but, and especially

1:16:20

now with Donald Trump and his relationship with

1:16:22

the governor and with the attorney general in

1:16:25

Florida, chances are, you know, it will never

1:16:27

be given to me. I would guess it

1:16:29

is if they

1:16:31

would probably make that phone call because

1:16:33

they're assholes. There's no doubt about

1:16:35

it. But, you know, I appreciate

1:16:37

people who, you know, have

1:16:40

firearms but are willing to keep

1:16:42

the firearms, you know, for

1:16:45

their own protection and they don't run

1:16:47

around with like AR-15s. I

1:16:49

don't understand the whole concept why

1:16:51

any single U.S. citizen should

1:16:54

have one of these high powered

1:16:56

rifles that really belong to the

1:16:58

military. I don't care about blowing

1:17:00

up a watermelon in your backyard

1:17:02

or in a range. That

1:17:05

to me is not what the Second

1:17:07

Amendment was supposed to be about. And

1:17:09

I took my gun ownership extremely serious.

1:17:11

I never pulled, and I had

1:17:14

a gun for 10 years as a concealed.

1:17:16

I never pulled it on anybody. I never

1:17:18

brandished it on anybody. I just had it

1:17:20

for my own protection. And they took that

1:17:22

away from me, which of course, you know,

1:17:25

I will seek to try to get back

1:17:27

once I resolve all of my issues. And

1:17:30

it ultimately comes out that my

1:17:32

entire set of problems was brought on

1:17:35

by Donald Trump and, you know, and

1:17:37

the Attorney General, just like when they

1:17:39

remained to be back to prison the

1:17:41

second time. Right. That was

1:17:43

some bullshit. Yeah. But, well,

1:17:45

look, I mean, Michael, it's going to be, I think,

1:17:48

I think one thing that you should keep

1:17:50

close near and dear to your heart is

1:17:52

that the shit you've been

1:17:55

through has been horrible and transformative and

1:17:58

grim in a million ways. But

1:18:00

the shit Trump is about to go through is

1:18:04

going to be utterly apocalyptic.

1:18:07

It is going to be the most

1:18:10

brutal, horrifying humiliation, I think, of any

1:18:12

American political figure. I mean, he's

1:18:14

going to make Richard Nixon look like a

1:18:16

success. It's going to be absolutely phenomenal

1:18:19

to watch this thing blow up. Well,

1:18:21

and I'm looking forward to doing my

1:18:23

share in order to continue to provide

1:18:25

truth to power, but you know, Rick,

1:18:27

as we're winding down our hour, I

1:18:29

want to ask you a final question

1:18:31

here, because let's talk about Rudy fucking

1:18:33

Giuliani for a moment. Yeah.

1:18:36

You have the same exasperated look on your face

1:18:38

as I do. You know, I worked for Rudy.

1:18:41

I worked for Rudy in 1997. I

1:18:43

did his campaign for mayor for reelection. We did the

1:18:46

media, the ads for him in 97. In

1:18:49

the end of 98, he asked me to come

1:18:51

back to New York and I was a senior

1:18:53

advisor to the mayor in city hall for a

1:18:55

year and something. And then I

1:18:57

went over to be the strategist, communication strategist for

1:18:59

the campaign against Hillary. And

1:19:02

so I knew Rudy from 97 till

1:19:05

now we stopped talking in

1:19:07

like late 15. I was going to

1:19:09

say, you know, maybe early 16, late 15. I

1:19:12

haven't talked to him since then. Well, we used to talk all the time. I

1:19:15

mean, the guy helped make my career of him

1:19:17

perfectly honest. And I said this a hundred times.

1:19:20

If Rudy Giuliani had just shut the fuck up when

1:19:23

he dies in a few years, they've renamed

1:19:26

high schools after the guy. They'd renamed the

1:19:28

Barrazano bridge after him or the frogs neck

1:19:30

bridge. They renamed bridges after him. They named

1:19:32

high schools after they named roads after him.

1:19:34

He'd be a historical figure for

1:19:36

the fact that he helped clean up the city. And

1:19:39

the fact that on the worst day in New York's history, he

1:19:41

provided a level of leadership, no one else could

1:19:44

have imagined or done, you know,

1:19:46

I dread the thought of fucking build de Blasio

1:19:48

facing a 9 11, you know, it

1:19:50

like, horrifies me, but whatever

1:19:52

gone, whatever's gone wrong in Rudy's brain, whatever

1:19:55

it's gone rotten in Rudy's head. It's,

1:19:58

it's destroyed his reputation. It's destroyed

1:20:00

his financial life. It's

1:20:04

destroyed everything about it. You know, my

1:20:06

joke of everything Trump touches dies with Rudy,

1:20:08

and it is for real with Rudy. It's

1:20:11

done. He is like... It was the same with me,

1:20:13

by the way. Whatever, you know,

1:20:15

as a result of Donald Trump talk

1:20:18

about, you know, a turn of events.

1:20:20

But I personally read with great happiness

1:20:23

how the New York State Bar was planning to

1:20:25

send him packing with a

1:20:27

disbarment. Because his culpability

1:20:29

before the riot and during, as

1:20:31

far as I'm concerned, is an

1:20:34

absolute fact. It is irrefutable. But

1:20:36

he seems to have now gone

1:20:38

awfully quiet since January 6th and

1:20:41

must know that he's in deep

1:20:43

shit, especially as the president said

1:20:45

he isn't granting any more pardons.

1:20:47

And if he can't pardon himself,

1:20:49

he's not pardoning anybody. Curious what

1:20:51

you think becomes of Rudy. Look,

1:20:54

I think Rudy has... I think

1:20:56

Rudy, his best

1:20:59

case scenario for

1:21:01

Rudy is that he is

1:21:03

going to end up being on basically like the MAGA

1:21:05

clown circuit. There will still be Trump groups

1:21:08

in the country. The kind of people that invite Roger

1:21:10

Stone to speak. I think that's where Rudy's

1:21:12

going to end up. Okay. I

1:21:14

think that's where Rudy's going to, you

1:21:16

know, land is as a circus act

1:21:18

inside the remainder of the MAGA cult.

1:21:22

And you talk about a come down.

1:21:25

You talk about a fall from grace

1:21:27

and glory. That's the business right there.

1:21:30

I mean, he is really truly fucked. Yeah.

1:21:33

I mean, I've heard from sources here in

1:21:35

New York that much of what Rudy has

1:21:37

been doing really has nothing to do, one

1:21:39

with his like for Donald, because they don't

1:21:42

like each other. They never liked each other,

1:21:44

not when Rudy was mayor. No, Rudy used

1:21:46

to make fun of... When I went for

1:21:48

Trump, Rudy used to make fun of them

1:21:50

all the time. Rudy used to

1:21:52

like roll his eyes when Trump did something.

1:21:54

I mean, he used to constantly be like,

1:21:57

what the fuck? Get this guy out of

1:21:59

here. He thought it was a joke. Because

1:22:02

remember, Rudy was around actual

1:22:05

property developers. He

1:22:08

was around actual money a lot of the

1:22:10

time. And Trump was never, you

1:22:12

know, Rudy liked

1:22:14

Trump because Trump understood the rules

1:22:16

of the gossip game in New York, but

1:22:19

he hated him otherwise. He thought it was a clown. He thought it

1:22:21

was a joke. And Trump thought

1:22:23

Rudy Giuliani was a clown as well. He

1:22:25

used to talk shit about Rudy behind

1:22:28

his back as well, which is comical

1:22:30

that this is the guy who stepped

1:22:32

up in the scenarios that I keep

1:22:34

hearing from the New York sort of

1:22:36

circuit here is that Rudy is really

1:22:39

in financial trouble. And

1:22:41

as a result of his proximity

1:22:43

to Trump, especially when he took

1:22:45

over my role as personal attorney,

1:22:47

he started landing these mega,

1:22:49

mega contracts with foreign countries,

1:22:52

right? Like Saudi Arabia, Qatar,

1:22:54

the Arab Emirates, and he

1:22:57

fucked them six different

1:22:59

ways to sunrise. And,

1:23:01

you know, now he's still

1:23:03

somehow after after pulling that great

1:23:05

scam, that grifting scam off of

1:23:08

Trump's back, he still is financially

1:23:10

in trouble. So what's going to

1:23:12

happen now that he'll have no

1:23:14

clout? His name recognition is garbage.

1:23:17

As you said, anybody that worked

1:23:19

for Trump has a shit stain on their on

1:23:21

their resume. What's he going to do now? And

1:23:23

how's he going to get out of his problems?

1:23:26

Yeah, it's not going to. There's there. I

1:23:29

think he's fucked. I mean, I don't think there's a way out.

1:23:31

I mean, he got he's he's

1:23:33

not he's never going to practice law again

1:23:35

in a meaningful way. He's

1:23:37

never going to be out there as a as a

1:23:39

of counsel or a rainmaker in a law firm ever

1:23:41

again. No law firm's ever going to touch him

1:23:44

ever again. He's

1:23:46

not going to be on the boards of any major

1:23:48

companies. That's for sure. God, no. There's

1:23:51

going to be a decline.

1:23:54

And he owes Judas, his former,

1:23:56

a gajillion dollars. So I

1:23:58

just don't see Rudy having. I mean, everything Trump's

1:24:00

up to dies playing out with Rudy is,

1:24:04

is one that, that should surprise

1:24:06

no one. Let's be perfectly honest. It should

1:24:08

surprise absolutely no one that this guy's getting

1:24:10

fucked because of what he did for, for,

1:24:12

for Trump. You know, in final question, and

1:24:14

then I'm going to let you go, cause

1:24:16

we're hitting that hour at this moment, we

1:24:19

were talking about the various different companies

1:24:21

that are pulling away

1:24:23

from Trump or what project Lincoln wants

1:24:26

to do, which is to out the

1:24:28

various different companies that are doing business

1:24:30

with the Trump organization. So who's top,

1:24:33

who's top three on your list? Well,

1:24:35

look, I, I, for me, um, Steve

1:24:38

Bannon, who is an ex administration official, but

1:24:40

he's still one of the most cancerous and

1:24:42

dangerous figures in the Trump world and

1:24:45

a sort of manipulator behind the scenes. Even

1:24:47

now guys like Stephen

1:24:49

Mnuchin and Gary Cohn and Peter

1:24:51

Navarro who, why would you say Gary

1:24:53

Cohn? Now I know, I know Gary, I'm sorry, Rick,

1:24:55

I know Gary very, very well. Gary

1:24:57

walked away from Trump after one

1:25:00

year because he could not take

1:25:02

Trump's bullshit. Everything that,

1:25:04

that Gary would tell him that he

1:25:06

needed to do to benefit the, the

1:25:08

economy for everybody. If you'll vouch for

1:25:10

him, I'm down. Okay.

1:25:13

But, but Navarro is, you know,

1:25:15

particularly dangerous person. Agree. Um,

1:25:18

and look, John Kelly, who like went through

1:25:20

this whole like agonist, he's active, tearing his

1:25:22

hair out. Oh, I feel so bad about all

1:25:25

this, but didn't do a fucking thing. Okay.

1:25:28

Did not do a fucking thing. Um, yeah.

1:25:30

And again, Stephen Miller is a

1:25:32

monster. He's he's, and he's got a

1:25:34

whole bunch of dangerous monsters around him, uh, who

1:25:37

had a lot of influence in the administration. Um,

1:25:40

and you know, Sarah Huckabee and Katie McEnany and

1:25:42

all these other people that, that were

1:25:45

part of the propaganda effort, that were part

1:25:47

of the bullshitting of America, the gas lighting

1:25:49

of this country. Look at this. And what

1:25:51

about corporations and what about companies? Look,

1:25:53

we're, we're, we've seen a very big

1:25:56

pushback already against the

1:25:58

Republicans, um, these corporate

1:26:00

bodies that now are trying to

1:26:02

whitewash themselves after having helped Trump.

1:26:06

We will not take our foot off

1:26:08

the gas on a lot of these companies. We're building out a

1:26:11

big list. You're going to see a lot more about that in

1:26:13

the coming days and weeks of the Lincoln Project.

1:26:16

Good. Will you please let

1:26:18

me know? Keep me abreast of that because I'd like to

1:26:20

help you with that. I've got a little bit of a

1:26:22

list of my own, including named individuals outside of the Washington

1:26:27

establishment. I'm talking about billionaires

1:26:29

and so on who financially

1:26:31

fed Trump during this entire

1:26:33

time for their own personal

1:26:35

gains at the expense of

1:26:38

this country. Everybody

1:26:41

should be held accountable. One of them will not

1:26:43

be answering to us because Sheldon died this week,

1:26:45

but there are many more

1:26:47

and I'm sure we'll have a further conversation about them

1:26:49

going forward. Well, Rick, again, thank you so much. Absolutely,

1:26:51

Michael. It was a real pleasure, Mike Crenn. I'll talk

1:26:54

to you soon, man. I look

1:26:56

forward to it, brother. You be well. You're

1:26:58

welcome, brother. And

1:27:02

now for today's Mayakolpa. I

1:27:04

want to talk to everyone today and thank you

1:27:06

all for coming on this journey with me. What

1:27:09

began as a simple companion to my

1:27:12

book, Disloyal, has grown into something far

1:27:14

more important. Twice

1:27:16

weekly, hundreds of thousands of

1:27:18

people gather to listen and discuss

1:27:20

Mayakolpa. It was always

1:27:23

my hope and intent that in doing this show,

1:27:25

I can help people understand

1:27:27

the danger posed by Donald Trump. That

1:27:30

said, I also tried to show that

1:27:32

there was a way forward for those who

1:27:34

took ownership over their misdeeds and sought to

1:27:37

walk away from the Trump cult. I

1:27:39

want to make sure that everyone knows that while

1:27:42

I am fearful about the future, I am

1:27:44

not without hope. One

1:27:46

way we change the hearts and minds of

1:27:48

our friends, our colleagues, our families, even

1:27:51

those we cannot stand, is to converse with

1:27:53

them as people. This

1:27:55

show was always intended to do just that.

1:28:00

office or will be out of office

1:28:02

tomorrow, this show will go on.

1:28:05

Instead of focusing on Donald Trump,

1:28:07

we will open the conversation to

1:28:09

cover not only the accountability that

1:28:11

awaits him, but also the much

1:28:13

larger conversation of how we move

1:28:15

forward as a nation and reckon

1:28:17

with what had happened over the

1:28:19

past four years. In

1:28:21

addition, I want to highlight the gains

1:28:23

we will most certainly make away from

1:28:25

the darkness and under the leadership of

1:28:27

our new president. So fear

1:28:30

not, Trump may be gone from

1:28:32

your life, but you will certainly have Michael

1:28:34

Cohen around to keep you informed. Now

1:28:37

comes the fun part of putting Trump

1:28:39

and his family behind bars. And

1:28:42

thanks for listening. Michael

1:28:44

Cohen is brought to you by LSA Media and

1:28:46

Audio Up, in association with

1:28:48

Nightis Touch and it's hosted by

1:28:50

me, Michael Cohen, produced by Audio

1:28:52

Up by Jimmy Gellman and executive

1:28:55

producer Jared Buester and

1:28:57

it's edited by Tyler Dawson. Please

1:28:59

stay tuned as we focus on

1:29:02

the changing political moment and this

1:29:04

unprecedented transfer of power. I'll

1:29:06

be with you every step of the way. May

1:29:08

it help us? Nothing has been proved. It's

1:29:31

gonna go on. So

1:29:33

true. Now

1:29:36

I'll be gone. It's

1:29:39

about my life. It's about

1:29:41

my life. I'll

1:29:48

let your cover up. It's

1:29:50

coming in now. It's

1:29:54

all gonna be. It's gonna

1:29:56

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