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JJ to 500 500. We're

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all juggling so many different things these days

1:01

that it can be hard to find time

1:03

to catch up as much as we used

1:05

to. I have close friends I've been meaning

1:07

to grab dinner with for months and then

1:09

things get busy. Busy with work, family, travel,

1:11

and of course, for me, golf. And

1:13

then somehow the dinner never happens. We've all

1:15

been there, but staying connected even in small

1:18

ways is really important to me. That's

1:20

why of all the apps in the world,

1:22

Instagram is the one I like most. I

1:25

specifically love the close friends feature because it

1:27

allows me to stay intimately connected with

1:29

friends, family, old teammates, and it

1:31

stays just between us, especially

1:33

when I'm away. Close friends really helps me

1:35

close the distance between me and my friends

1:37

and family. I can send my favorite pics

1:39

to family from courtside calling games or inside

1:42

jokes to old teammates without anyone else seeing

1:44

it. Another Instagram feature I love

1:46

is resharing reels. Sending reels back and forth

1:48

with my friends and family is a great

1:50

way to stay in touch and have a

1:52

good laugh. It's almost like its own language

1:54

of connection. I know you know the

1:56

feeling finding that perfect real you just know

1:58

your friend will laugh at. It's their

2:00

exact sense of humor or sending

2:02

your buddy a reel with a game highlight from their

2:05

favorite player It's a great way to bond and show

2:07

the people you care about that you're thinking of them

2:10

I just love that there's a place on

2:12

instagram to share things with people you're closest

2:14

with in our busy busy world This

2:17

episode of the old man in

2:19

the three is presented by bmw

2:21

the brand that is constantly raising

2:23

standards for performance and innovation bmw

2:26

the ultimate driving machine Welcome

2:30

to the old man of the three with jj

2:32

retic and tommy elton brought to you by three

2:35

four two productions We've

2:38

got tray murphy Uh for

2:40

an extended interview. We talk a ton

2:42

of playoff stuff with him And

2:45

we also have a special mini

2:47

playoff mail bag for you uh

2:50

tommy, um Just

2:52

some incredible games last night rj and I covered

2:55

the uh nyx game five and

2:58

the nuggets game five But

3:01

for our draft king sports book segment, I

3:03

do want to talk about game six tonight

3:05

in minnesota before we uh Do

3:07

all the normal stuff we do on a

3:09

podcast. I just want to acknowledge Uh

3:12

and thank of course bmw for

3:15

sponsoring these episodes, but I also

3:17

want to acknowledge These hoodies Are

3:20

incredible hoodies are sick. They're incredible

3:23

They sent me three. I've got a black one. I've got the

3:25

yellow one which you guys have seen This

3:27

blue one happens to be my favorite They

3:30

just comfy. They're soft. They're not by the way,

3:32

they're really cool Want me to talk about the

3:34

merch but i'm talking about the merch They asked

3:36

me to talk about the merch but the hoodies

3:38

are awesome. It's funny It's we've had a lot

3:41

of great sponsors partners over the years doing the

3:43

show I would say I would

3:45

say this that These sweatshirts

3:47

have gotten the most attention Literally

3:50

like half the youtube comments are not about basketball.

3:52

It's like why are you wearing that? Crazy

3:54

cool bmw's sweatshirt.

3:57

I love it. I love it. Um, all right,

3:59

uh real quick quick before we get to

4:01

Trey Murphy and the mailbag, I want to do a

4:04

quick DraftKings Sportsbook segment.

4:06

Um, so we

4:09

all, and we talked

4:12

about it. We did a big preview of

4:14

this series, the nuggets and T-wolves and felt

4:16

like this potentially could be a landmine for

4:18

the nuggets. We went through all the reasons

4:21

why. And games one and two

4:23

happen. And I think

4:26

a lot of people wrote off the

4:28

Denver nuggets, uh, by

4:30

the way, including the odds makers, cause we went

4:33

through the odds and, uh, they, they dropped

4:35

from the favorites to win the title to

4:37

like fifth or sixth overnight after

4:40

game two, um, now those

4:42

odds have shifted by the way, um,

4:44

because. Denver now has the

4:46

second best odds to win the NBA championship,

4:48

Boston. The odds on favorite at minus

4:50

one 30, Denver plus two 75. Um,

4:55

it feels like, and,

4:57

and I want to get your just perspective as

4:59

like a fan of the game, somebody who watches

5:01

a ton of basketball, loves the sport, but

5:04

it just feels like something

5:07

that Michael Malone said, and he took it from

5:09

Rudy T who was a coaching the Houston Rockets

5:12

back in 95. They were down three, one in

5:14

a series to Phoenix and they came back and

5:16

won. Everybody was like, just, you can't underestimate the

5:19

heart of a champion. My point is

5:21

a player. Cause I lived through it and

5:23

I got, I got close. You

5:26

couldn't underestimate the heart of a champion in Palgosol.

5:29

You couldn't underestimate the heart of a champion, Derek

5:31

Fisher, Kobe Bryant, right. And what

5:34

I think we've seen is certainly

5:37

the strategic adjustments they've made, which we

5:39

have talked about on the show, but

5:42

to get through and

5:45

live it. The pressure

5:47

each round building, the intensity,

5:49

each round building, all that

5:51

is required to

5:54

get through each round of the

5:56

playoffs and eventually become champion, which

5:58

again, I haven't experienced. You

6:02

can never underestimate that what somewhat the lived

6:04

experience of Nicola

6:07

Jokic and Jamal Murray and Aaron Gordon

6:09

and Michael Porter Jr. Christian Brown has

6:11

been great the last two games. Yeah,

6:13

Michael Malone, KCP, KCP, of course. Yeah.

6:15

Happy and great game last night in

6:17

game five. Like you cannot

6:19

underestimate this. And so there's

6:22

always the strategic stuff. We're

6:25

seeing this too with the Knicks. Like

6:27

it's just what is in someone's

6:30

heart and brain and spirit. Like

6:32

we're seeing it. I'm not saying they're going

6:35

to win game six. I'm saying you cannot

6:37

count them out. It's like the institutional toughness.

6:39

Yeah. It's like, you know, they're going to

6:41

and I think that we knew this. We talked about this

6:44

before game five at MSG. We know

6:46

Jalen Ronson has that like, like,

6:48

like you may beat him. They may be hurt.

6:50

His foot may be screwed up. But like, you

6:52

know, he has that toughness. You know that this

6:54

Denver team has that toughness. I

6:56

think I wanted to ask about Gordon in particular. I

6:58

know you've talked about on three things and we've talked

7:00

about on the show in general, some of the adjustments

7:02

with him bringing the ball up and just all the

7:05

different things he brings to the table. But

7:08

is there a part of you with him and how

7:10

he's played in this series so far? He

7:13

I think we I think you called him one

7:15

of your biggest Alfred's last year. Like this is

7:17

not what this is not a new statement that

7:19

Aaron Gordon is a huge part of what the

7:21

Denver Nuggets are, you know, this this this championship

7:23

run that they had last year and what they

7:25

could have another one. This year, but is there

7:27

something you've seen in this particular series with him

7:29

that's even surprised you because I feel like after

7:32

game two, we'll

7:35

get to Joker and and last

7:37

night and how unbelievable it was.

7:39

But after game two, that's been

7:41

he's been the revelation. The

7:43

word RJ used this morning because we're

7:45

recording this Wednesday right after our live

7:47

reactions to both game fives, Knicks and

7:49

Pacers and Nuggets and Bulls. The word

7:51

RJ used is unique. And

7:53

I think there's a bunch of ways to

7:56

sort of break down the

7:58

uniqueness of Aaron Gordon. The

8:01

first and the thing that jumps

8:03

out the most is someone

8:06

who probably

8:08

wanted to be a 1A

8:11

and certainly Orlando at times, depending on who

8:14

the coach was because he played for a

8:16

few different coaches in Orlando, at

8:18

times was given

8:21

the opportunity to show that he could

8:23

be the 1A. So this was a

8:25

guy who worked on his game in

8:28

a particular way. Then

8:30

he comes to the Nuggets and has to

8:32

play a different way and

8:34

it's unique also in

8:36

the sense that he bought into that,

8:38

that he embraced that. It's

8:40

unique that he's someone

8:43

who took ownership after

8:46

2022 against the Warriors and he

8:48

said I've got to become a smarter player. In

8:50

order to win at the highest level I've got

8:52

to become a smarter player. I've got to study

8:54

more film. I've got to recognize patterns, all of

8:56

that stuff. I said it at the time back

8:58

in 2022. I was like you watched

9:00

that series and you're like yeah

9:04

the Nuggets were short-handed but the Warriors in

9:06

some ways outsmarted them. You can't say

9:08

that about the Nuggets as a team

9:10

now. You cannot say that about

9:13

this team. That to

9:15

me is like unique. Then you also you're like alright well the

9:17

guy worked on his game he's got it he's got it clearly

9:19

has a bag and you're like alright

9:22

go be the ball handler because

9:24

that's what's required to give us a

9:26

better chance to win. It's interesting because

9:28

you've seen now you know

9:30

okay Minnesota is countered. They're like

9:32

alright we're gonna put Jaden on them. We're gonna

9:35

hound them. But all of this

9:37

has essentially

9:39

allowed Denver

9:41

to manipulate matchups and manipulate where Go

9:43

Bears is on the floor. Alright I'm

9:45

gonna space I'm gonna shoot threes. Alright

9:48

Go Bears off me now I can manipulate the

9:50

dunker spot. Okay they're doubling now I can duck

9:52

in. Like it's all this stuff and

9:54

it's to me it's part

9:56

of what makes watching

9:59

players in the NBA for

10:02

years. It's what makes it fun to

10:04

see these different iterations of players, to

10:07

see growth in players. And

10:09

that's why I love watching Aaron Gordon. Because

10:11

it's like, I didn't know that this

10:13

would be Aaron Gordon at this stage in his

10:15

career when he's drafted as a lottery pick in

10:17

Orlando, right? There were so many

10:20

different paths that he could have been at

10:22

this stage in his career. And this is

10:24

who he is. And it's so impactful on

10:26

winning. And it's awesome. His consistency. He shot

10:29

39% from three every playoff series since he's

10:31

been in Denver. He's just is he's a

10:33

rock for them. I mean, we know,

10:35

we know, we know it defensively, but he's a rocker.

10:37

I wanted to ask about the heart of the champion

10:39

thing. I was thinking about this watching last night about

10:42

Christian Brown is obviously great for them in the first

10:44

half. I'm not there's

10:46

no, I'm not comparing him to Jalen or Josh

10:48

or, you know, but like, there's, there's a part

10:50

of me when you talk about, I

10:53

was thinking about this ahead of the draft this year,

10:55

when you're talking about winners and guys that won in

10:58

college and basically Christian Brown has won at every level

11:00

of his life. He won in high school, won a

11:02

national championship in Kansas. And then he comes in and

11:04

wins right away in Denver is, is

11:07

this a coincidence that these guys are doing this?

11:09

And it's like, because it feels like there's something

11:11

when you're looking, when you're looking, especially like, you

11:14

know, take the top five picks out of it.

11:16

When you're looking in like the, you know,

11:18

10 to 25 range being like,

11:20

okay, this guy hit Dante

11:22

is another example of this. Dante won a national championship

11:25

game in Villanova, not DeVentenzo. Yeah. Like Dr. Draymond didn't

11:27

win. I don't think he won a national championship at

11:29

Michigan state, but he won a lot of games. Yeah.

11:31

He won a lot of games. He played for a

11:33

coach that knew what winning was. He played for a

11:35

coach that knew what a winning culture was. Yeah. This,

11:38

this, this stuff matters, Tommy, for sure. For

11:40

sure. And it's also, I'll say this and

11:42

it's, it's a Christian's like a perfect example

11:44

of this because he's

11:47

not someone who stepped in as a rookie

11:49

and was asked to be the second or third option.

11:51

He was coming off the bench. He

11:54

had his ups and downs. He had ups and

11:56

downs this year. Michael Malone has talked about this.

11:59

He's never. Been afraid of the

12:01

moment. so for him. To. All the

12:03

sun play really meaningful minutes. In.

12:05

The finals against the Miami Heat and have

12:07

the games like it should come as a

12:09

surprise right? He's been in a ton of

12:11

these moments. It's funny, it's just with it's

12:13

it's it's with everyone's talking about the you

12:15

know the nova next nirvana that it shouldn't

12:17

be surprising. Yeah these guys have played news

12:19

games or entire life so this is just

12:21

a different interests in of it Be awkward.

12:23

Ah I'm. We. Covered Ah Roger and

12:26

I did in a in live reaction

12:28

we covered a ton on the color

12:30

yolk. It's ah I'm. In. I'm

12:32

and I think I'm most interested. In

12:35

Game six and I don't This is

12:37

not a prediction. It's not what I

12:39

would do. I'm not saying that I

12:41

just as a general just like San.

12:43

I'm. Most interested. To

12:46

see how they guard the color

12:48

joke. It's. The. Coverage on him.

12:50

You know, there was a lot last night of

12:53

single coverage with Go Bare. Were. Joke.

12:55

Is she said I'm going to go Score! This

12:58

is a conversation that we have visit and recession

13:00

I have with Ah coaches in pregame meetings is

13:02

a conversation I have with. Friends. Around the

13:04

and be a Psych. Past.

13:07

Month or so. What's the best way to guard the

13:09

nuggets? What is the best way to guard to call

13:11

yolk? It's in. Like I'm not sure there's a great

13:13

answer. But. Within a playoff series.

13:16

Like. You can't give the same thing

13:18

to everybody and it because they haven't. they've

13:20

mix it up. So I think the thing

13:23

I'm watching the most is like I. Would.

13:25

Are we going to do with yolk? It's what are we going to

13:27

do with yoga to game six? By the way, Ah,

13:29

game sexual. Wrap this up. Game Six. Minnesota's

13:32

actually on on draft his portrait. They are the

13:34

favorites as of right now and is two and

13:36

a half. I. target and they're given

13:38

away to annapolis the denver nuggets some

13:40

fascinated by this game or potential game

13:42

seven of central name nevin or on

13:44

him seven sundance hurting for them it's

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art this about drafting sports book segment

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the n b a playoffs are heating

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and deposit restrictions terms and responsible

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gaming resource Let's get to

14:47

our mini playoff mailbag Tommy

14:51

let's start with this one because we

14:54

Have talked a little bit on on both

14:56

shows about the Cavs Boston series But we

14:59

haven't covered it in depth and

15:01

I want to sort of revisit something we've talked

15:03

about in the past and I

15:06

think I think it's important to sort of

15:08

contextualize right the Cleveland Cavaliers So

15:12

Jack at the Cavs Jack your

15:15

opinion on the Cavs core for Mitchell Garland

15:17

Mobley and Allen after two seasons They

15:19

lost a lot of their season together

15:21

this year Look I

15:24

think there certainly was a

15:26

like a lack of continuity because and

15:29

JB Vickers have I thought as Really

15:32

good job this year of

15:34

adjusting on the fly, right? Mobley

15:36

out for a while Garland out for a while.

15:38

They went to Essentially a

15:41

spread offense heavy shooting lineups Jared Allen

15:43

had a monster stretch in the season

15:45

started out the playoffs with a monster

15:47

stretch I think

15:49

it's hard to judge a team That

15:52

hasn't had continuity and and certainly when

15:54

you're missing a Guy

15:56

who's made an all-star team in Jared Allen that

15:59

really hurts, but I I will say long-term

16:01

if this core group sticks together, if Donovan

16:03

Mitchell ends up signing an extension, the

16:07

two pieces I would say, because I

16:09

love them individually, and

16:12

I love them together. The

16:15

biggest point, and I said this on the broadcast in

16:17

game seven, is like, if

16:20

this is long-term, and this is like playoff

16:22

math that we get to at some point,

16:24

it's like Evan Mobley, and he started doing it this

16:27

year, he's got to become a three-point shooter. Evan Mobley

16:29

doesn't have to be the number one option. Yeah. Right?

16:34

And I think the pieces sort of all

16:36

fit together. I think the one thing that

16:39

at times is like, we

16:41

saw this, I think in game four,

16:43

is like Garland can struggle at times

16:45

when Mitchell's in go mode, Mitchell's

16:47

out for game four, and Garland looks

16:49

amazing. Like, there's Garland's a fantastic player.

16:52

It's like that dynamic and

16:54

Evan Mobley shooting, those are the

16:56

two things. Here's my sort of

16:58

broad question off of this, and I feel

17:00

like this probably applies to the Atlanta Hawks

17:02

as well. In the modern NBA, if you

17:05

consider both just the financial implications

17:07

of the second Abraham and the other, but

17:09

also just the way successful teams are built

17:12

in the modern NBA, does it make sense

17:14

to have two great guards like this in

17:16

general? Because I think there's no

17:18

debate that both Donovan- Are you trying to

17:20

do a segment here on where Donovan Mitchell

17:22

should go now? No, because by the way,

17:24

Donovan might stay. I'm

17:27

saying it feels like one of them

17:29

will be somewhere else. I have no idea which one.

17:31

And I don't, I think until the series plays out, it

17:37

is what it is, but I think this is the

17:39

same conversation in Atlanta, it's like, there's no denial how

17:42

good both these guys are, but does it

17:44

make sense when you're building a team to have

17:46

two guards like this? It's

17:50

a good question. I

17:52

will say, I do

17:55

think you need multiple ball handlers,

17:57

particularly in the playoffs. You

18:00

know, we discussed this with legs. I think

18:02

one of the trends we've seen, particularly

18:05

in the Knicks-Pacer series, and particularly

18:07

in Timberwolves Denver, is

18:10

you need multiple ball handlers because in

18:12

the playoffs, you're going to face

18:15

full court pressure. And for

18:17

a primary ball handler to just get

18:20

pickup point at 80 feet, 70 feet, every

18:24

single time down the floor, and then have

18:26

to initiate and create offense in the half

18:28

court. I think that's hard

18:30

to do. Um, so having another ball handler

18:32

on the floor is great. And, and if

18:35

you look at the Cavs, like, well,

18:37

you got Max Truce, you got a

18:39

Coro, you know, Laverde, obviously off the

18:41

bench can give you that, but they

18:43

just don't have anyone else. So I

18:46

don't, I don't think it's like, uh,

18:49

a curse that they have these two guys together.

18:51

I don't, I don't think that at all. Certainly,

18:54

um, there's

18:57

the, the target hunting at times for both

18:59

these guys. I think they face Garland probably

19:01

a little bit more, but

19:03

that's not going to go away if he's on

19:05

his own team. So they have Mobley and Jared

19:07

Allen on the back line that O'Cora has had

19:09

a fantastic season and had some really good games

19:12

in the playoffs. So it's,

19:14

it's, it's kind of hard to

19:16

figure out, but in, until the

19:18

dynamic and Evan

19:20

Mobley shooting and continuity, like, those are

19:23

the things to me. It's

19:25

not necessarily the pairing itself on the surface. Yeah.

19:27

And it is hard. I mean, uh, Allen's

19:29

been hurt, you know, in this series, it's hard to

19:31

judge. It's, it's, it's harder to team when none of

19:33

them on the court together. Um, Mike

19:37

Benelli at the

19:39

Benelli asks a great question with the

19:41

most important Alfred so

19:43

far this season, you know, there's

19:45

so many options and a lot

19:48

of these guys, um, you

19:51

know, made my, my first annual all

19:53

Alfred team, the Derek white all stars,

19:55

Derek white, of course, no longer eligible.

19:58

Um, he's been immortalized and his. Jersey

20:00

hangs in the rafters. He's going to say he's

20:02

gone. He's graduated.

20:04

He's graduated. No, he's his,

20:06

his eligibility for the all Alfred team

20:08

is up. Um, I

20:11

wouldn't say there's been a most important player.

20:13

I would say this playoffs, like nearly

20:15

every playoffs has proven

20:18

the importance of the entire thesis around

20:21

the outfit Alfred, right? Uh,

20:23

we've seen in Indiana, Obie Toppin TJ

20:26

McConnell. Uh, we've seen in

20:28

New York with Josh Hart and

20:30

Isaiah Hartenstein. Um, even

20:33

Chenzo, of course, like these are like guys

20:37

who are not

20:39

all stars. They likely

20:42

will never be a, uh, a one

20:44

a two a, you know,

20:47

David Chenzo at times this year has been a two a

20:49

or three a, and it's the first time in his career.

20:52

And he's, he's had a

20:54

career year. So like

20:56

Aaron Gordon, right? Aaron Gordon, KCP, uh,

20:58

I mean, Jaden McDaniel's Nikhil Alexander Walker. Like

21:00

you go across the board. There's not, I

21:02

don't think there's a most important, I think

21:06

the whole thing with the Alfred is every

21:08

team needs the Alfred. If you

21:11

want to win, you've got

21:13

to have the role guys that just buy

21:15

into it and start in that role. Would

21:17

you throw PJ Washington? Oh,

21:19

that's a great example. Yeah. PJ Washington,

21:21

Casey Wallace as a rookie. He's

21:23

been awesome for okay. When you're, when you're

21:25

defining a playoff Alfred, is it

21:28

something, is there, you have to

21:30

do it for the entire series or is it like, Oh, this

21:32

guy just swung a game. No, I don't think you have to

21:34

do it for the entire. So you can just have, you can

21:36

just be like, okay, this guy won us game,

21:38

game five. I brought it up twice on

21:40

a broadcast, uh, with Mike and Doris. One

21:42

was in the regular season. Uh,

21:44

we were just having some fun and I

21:46

explained the whole premise of the but,

21:49

uh, in game seven, um,

21:51

I told them before the game, I said, this is

21:54

a game. This is a series where like we've had

21:56

these wild swings. We've had teams at times that can't

21:58

score the basketball. It feels like it's. going to be

22:00

a game where at times neither team's

22:02

gonna be able to score the basketball. Mitchell of course had

22:04

a monster second half. Ben Caro had a monster first half.

22:07

It's like who's the Alfred that's going to swing this game?

22:09

Okay. Caris Lavert in

22:11

the first half for the Cavs. Max

22:13

Strus in the third quarter. Like

22:16

those are starring Alfred Rose rolls.

22:18

Those are Michael Kane in Batman.

22:20

That is Michael Kane, right?

22:23

That is extremely high. John David

22:25

Washington in tenet

22:28

at the private men's club for lunch and

22:31

giving him instructions. Like that

22:33

to me is like that's the

22:35

sort of in-game definition of an

22:38

Alfred. You just mentioned him and you

22:40

talked about it with RJ this morning,

22:42

but at what point does the

22:44

Hartenstein stuff just become... I was at

22:46

the game last night. 12 offensive rebounds.

22:49

By the end of the game, it was just like the pace was

22:51

just giving up. They're like, no, this guy is going to go get

22:53

the opportunity. We just hope they missed the second shot. At what point

22:55

does this become almost comical

22:57

in his ability to do this by

22:59

himself? That's

23:02

funny. I think when

23:04

a guy does this for so long,

23:07

not for a week or not for two

23:10

weeks, it eventually just becomes, okay, this is

23:12

who this guy is, right? I think Josh

23:14

Hart has done this for years. Like

23:17

this is who Josh Hart is. This is who Isaiah Hartenstein

23:19

is. It's funny,

23:21

I've been thinking a lot because

23:23

I've called these Knicks games. I

23:26

was thinking about when he was with the Clippers

23:29

and mostly coming

23:31

off the bench, we would spot start here and there. I

23:34

remember thinking to myself and watching him, I'm like, yeah,

23:36

that guy, I think he's still really young. At

23:38

the time, I was like, oh, that guy can be a really good player, but

23:41

I don't know what he is. With

23:44

this team, it's like the perfect role. We've

23:47

seen his value in that

23:49

high post elbow area as a passer when they

23:51

get in there cutting and off ball stuff. We've

23:54

seen his impact throughout this season, particularly

23:56

after January 1 in

23:58

terms of rim protection, defending. And then

24:01

on the offensive glass, he's just

24:03

every single time. And it's funny,

24:05

it's funny if you watch the

24:07

games, the level

24:09

of attention to detail. Indiana

24:13

boxing him out is like

24:16

a fun thing to watch. And yet he

24:18

still comes up with a basketball. It's

24:20

not like they're not like, it's not like he got 12 offensive

24:23

rebounds and they didn't put a body on any of them. No,

24:25

they're still putting a body on them. The last thing that reminded

24:27

me of the Cavs first round series last year, where you're just

24:29

like, you know, he's going to do it. You know him and

24:31

Rob are going to do it and they just do it anyways.

24:34

Pick one team that did not make the post-season

24:36

this year that you think will next year

24:38

and pick one team that made the post-season this

24:41

year, but won't make it next year. Uh,

24:45

I don't want to do the second part of that. Um,

24:48

I mean, I think the obvious one here

24:50

is the Memphis Grizzlies. Yeah. Right. That's the

24:53

obvious one. Um, you

24:55

assume John Morant will

24:57

be healthy and be John

25:01

Morant. Uh, Jared Jackson,

25:03

Jr. Desmond Bain, like they have

25:06

three guys on the roster that can go and that

25:08

are really good and that they all fit together. Um,

25:11

I think the big question mark with them will

25:13

be, um, the center position.

25:16

And I would expect, um,

25:19

I would expect this to be a

25:22

really interesting draft

25:25

free agency trade season this

25:27

summer. Um, so

25:29

this is probably, is it probably a summer mailbag

25:32

question to be honest with you? After we

25:34

see where people land. Because I do think the

25:36

obvious one right now to me is Memphis. Um,

25:39

and the other, the other point I want to make on

25:42

this, it goes a little bit

25:44

to the, to the second point is like

25:47

it, the league is so

25:50

deep right now with talent

25:52

and with good teams. There's

25:54

certainly some really bad teams at the bottom. I'm not

25:56

saying there's not bad teams at the bottom. There's bad

25:58

teams at the bottom. I don't

26:01

think you can take anything for granted mislead

26:03

anymore. Yeah, I mean okay. see they didn't

26:05

make the playoffs last year and now there

26:07

are a number one, zero it and their

26:10

two games away. From. Getting the

26:12

the Western Conference finals. So. His. Next

26:14

year's team is the Houston Rockets that

26:16

makes that jumps but there's a chance

26:18

the Houston Rockets regress like that's. just

26:20

how good the league is. Here's the

26:22

question of of of when I read

26:24

this earlier today of stigma Memphis as

26:26

well and. A If you

26:28

are A If you're playing and you're

26:30

thinking about. You. Know your future.

26:32

Years ago, you're free to the summary for the next summer,

26:35

wherever it is, At what point we talk about

26:37

this all year on the show? At what

26:39

point, do it, you're playing in the Western Conference.

26:42

You start to say I'm going east because

26:44

discovered is so fucking good. Where you look

26:46

at you members we can be better behind

26:48

a toenails. going to be better Houston I

26:50

think is that we would assume is probably

26:53

going to improve with all those great young

26:55

guys. He starts saying like. I'm. Just

26:57

going east because I want to make the playoffs. In

27:00

the certainly, I think there's It's

27:02

certainly a part of the calculus,

27:04

but. I. Will also say and

27:06

this goes back to we can talk about this

27:08

now because I don't have to. The mail are

27:10

not. Ah, you know this

27:12

is like but the Celtics can't win

27:15

in any in any way. shape or

27:17

form and discourse. You

27:19

know they're going to. That. Say they make

27:21

them and B A finals and I lose. There's

27:24

it's the same old. Thing. Let's

27:26

say they that say when the N B

27:28

A finals that's. How. They had

27:30

a they had a week run bob

27:32

of Law and it's iconic. Hard at

27:34

it but on a point. Ah,

27:37

the reality is. The.

27:39

Eastern Conference. This. Year.

27:43

Is not as. Deep. As

27:45

the Western Conference I think in terms of. Good.

27:48

Basketball Teams. But. At the

27:50

top. A. Lot of injuries. Argument

27:53

that us By the way Precepts Precinct A says her

27:55

like at your what are your best players is hurt.

27:57

And. a guy who i caught a cheat code in the

27:59

difference maker between this year's team and last year's team. So,

28:03

you know, Miami, a bunch of injuries.

28:06

Philly, of course, a bunch of injuries.

28:10

Milwaukee in the playoffs, a bunch of injuries. I would expect

28:14

the East with a healthy season, the

28:16

top teams are going to be really

28:18

good. Cleveland, we just talked about it.

28:20

A bunch of injuries. Pacers

28:23

are going to be better next year. I would

28:25

expect, whether they win this series or not, they're

28:27

going to go into this next season with

28:30

momentum. Assuming

28:32

they get Siakam back. All

28:34

that stuff is, man, it's hard for me

28:44

to listen to some

28:46

things without the

28:48

context. It's hard for

28:51

me. And so, yes,

28:53

the West is a better conference, but the

28:55

East also, the best teams were

28:57

through regular season and playoffs had to deal with

29:00

an inordinate amount of injuries. Yeah, I can promise

29:02

you no one's trying to play a healthy Knicks

29:04

team next year. No one's trying to play a

29:06

Knicks team right now. No one's certainly trying to play a

29:08

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31:26

Maximus, can the Wolves win in Denver this

31:28

next game and the Celtics having the easiest

31:30

path to the finals ever? Are

31:33

the Knicks injuries Tib's fault or

31:36

is he getting blamed for in-game issues?

31:40

I forgot about that one. I forgot

31:42

about that one. You

31:45

know one thing I'll say is like Barkley went off

31:47

on this the other day about Tib's and you

31:49

know, of course the reaction to

31:51

that was, you can't

31:53

complain about load management and then you know,

31:56

get mad when guys play heavy minutes and

31:58

then I saw some graphics. of Charles

32:01

Barkley's minutes per game in the playoffs. Look, I

32:03

just want to say like the

32:05

possessions are down this year. Um,

32:08

especially in the, you know, the, in the playoffs, I

32:10

mean, and. Barkley

32:12

played in a different era and the game

32:14

was played differently. And

32:17

I think it was, I'm not going to

32:19

say it was easier because it was a, it was a

32:21

different game, but what

32:23

is, I mean, you go watch the Pacers play.

32:26

What is required on a given

32:28

possession? So you're going to crash

32:31

the offensive glass. If you're the New York Knicks,

32:34

the Pacers want to beat you

32:36

or of attrition by sprinting the

32:38

ball up the court, either with a

32:40

speed dribble or an advance pass. So

32:42

you've got to recover, get back in

32:44

position, get matched up. And then

32:46

the Pacers just start humming in the half court with movement.

32:49

So you're guarding three, four or five actions,

32:52

closeouts rotations every single

32:54

time. That's

32:57

hard to do. And by the way,

32:59

this is not me saying, yes, Tibbs at fault. I'm

33:01

saying that's hard to do for any team. That's

33:03

hard to do. And that

33:07

is not just indicative of this series.

33:09

That's how a lot of teams play.

33:12

And I think that's harder to

33:14

do. It's harder to play big

33:16

minutes now. It's harder. It's why what the

33:18

Knicks are doing are so, is so remarkable.

33:21

And no, there's no easy, there's an

33:23

easier path. There's no easy path ever.

33:25

You have to win the game. Like,

33:28

are we not going to acknowledge that Donovan Mitchell's

33:30

awesome? Yeah. Are we not going to acknowledge that?

33:32

Like I get Jimmy was out and I get

33:34

Alan's out. Like I get that. Like they

33:36

got, they got lucky in the sense that

33:40

some of the team's best players were hurt. I get

33:42

that. Like, but that's almost like,

33:45

what it's almost every year now. Yeah. It's

33:47

almost every year. I thought it was great.

33:49

Usually you and RJ shouted out, uh, Alec

33:52

Burke's today, but just, you know, he's

33:54

a pro he's, he's playing a lot of big games.

33:56

He's not going to forget how to shoot, but also

33:58

just being ready for this. You

34:01

know, like just when you haven't really

34:03

played in like two months and just being able to

34:05

have your body prepared for what you're

34:07

describing when you basically are going from not playing

34:09

at all to you're in a six

34:12

man rotation and you're playing at how

34:14

many 25 minutes last night or something like that. Just

34:17

out of necessity. I saw this one when

34:21

Nicole said these yesterday. Jordan

34:23

Marvel at Jordan Marvel. Just

34:27

playoff arena environments you've been able

34:29

to broadcast in. It's

34:32

a great question and I think it's probably

34:34

there's a strong correlation to the best playoff

34:36

arena environments I've been able to play in.

34:40

The garden is awesome. TD

34:43

Garden is awesome. You

34:46

know, I remember during

34:49

the 2021 season when I was hurt and we

34:51

played the Clippers in the playoffs. I

34:56

was like, damn, Dallas has a great crowd.

34:58

It was very interesting though. I didn't think

35:00

the crowd in game four was very good.

35:04

At least on the like I wasn't calling the game but I

35:06

have the broadcast. But then I of

35:08

course called three games in the Clippers series

35:10

and the crowd was fantastic. So

35:12

Dallas has a great crowd. I played

35:14

in Oklahoma City haven't broadcast a playoff game in

35:16

there. They always have a

35:18

great crowd. Philly of course, which I've

35:21

done. I've done games there and

35:23

then the one for me this

35:25

weekend was awesome. Like we got called two games

35:27

in Indy. That place was awesome.

35:29

This is loud. You were there too. This

35:31

is awesome. We've

35:33

talked about this before but I forget the answer. And I got one

35:36

more. I haven't broadcast the game there but

35:38

I played there Portland, Portland

35:40

when they're good. That place is rocking.

35:42

Yeah. What's it? Do

35:44

you have an example of a playoff example of a game you

35:47

were in on that on either side where

35:49

you feel like the crowd swung the game? I

35:52

have one of yours but I want to see

35:54

if you agree with this after you answer this.

35:57

Okay. Man,

36:02

I've called so many playoff games. I just want

36:04

to say one that I've called

36:08

and that's, I've called so many. I've game

36:10

three or four in Dallas. Um,

36:14

when, uh, Paul

36:16

George went ballistic in the first half,

36:19

Norman Powell goes ballistic. They get

36:21

up to 30 something and

36:23

we, we were talking about this during

36:25

the breaks. And Mike

36:27

Breen gave a bang in the first half

36:29

and gave a late, we laid out, which

36:31

means you, you shut up and you don't

36:33

talk and you let the viewer hear

36:36

what's going on in the arena, like if you

36:38

cut immersive, right? We laid out in a 20

36:40

point game. Like it was 20, a 20

36:43

point game in the second quarter. They had come back, they'd cut

36:45

it from 31 to like 20 points. And

36:47

we laid out that crowd never

36:49

gave up. And look,

36:53

I think the energy, body

36:56

language, all that stuff matters in a

36:58

game. You know, we always talk about the dock rivers

37:00

thing. Like don't let go, you're in a tug of war. Don't let

37:02

go of the rope. And there's, there's a time when

37:04

you can let go of the rope and you're sort of like giving

37:06

in to the time and

37:08

the score and the crowd

37:11

didn't allow Dallas to do that. And we, and

37:13

you haven't done a game there yet this year,

37:15

but, uh, we talked about this with Trey. Okay.

37:17

See, I mean, that crowd is insane. They've been

37:19

insane since the history. Trying

37:22

to think a game for my career. Um,

37:25

man, I don't know. Did

37:28

you have one you said? Yeah. From my

37:30

perspective, just being in the arena, there

37:32

was, it was the Philly series, Philly

37:35

Boston series, um, game

37:38

two, where you had a, you, you were hot

37:40

at the beginning, um, and

37:42

you guys got up big and

37:45

they, Terry Rozier basically

37:47

like brought them back. I think guys are up like 15

37:49

or 17 points in the first half and they

37:51

went on a crazy run at the end of the first half. And

37:53

I think they cut it to like two or three, um, by

37:56

halftime. And it felt like,

37:59

you know, obviously. see all of respect to those

38:01

guys for doing it, but it felt like the crowd

38:03

willed them back into the game. It basically felt like

38:05

the crowd understood this run was happening, and it was

38:07

the first time I'd been there where I was like,

38:09

oh yeah, these fans are fucking legit. Why'd you have

38:12

to bring that up? I don't know, I didn't want

38:14

to see if you were going to bring it up

38:16

or not. You know what I'm talking about though, right?

38:18

Yeah, that's a great example actually. And it was a

38:21

great example, Tommy. Fucking

38:23

guy. I hit a jumper. I

38:25

hit a jumper. Because you played great in the

38:27

game. And they just can't hit his shoulder back

38:29

in. I hit a jumper in front

38:32

of our bench. I caught it in the left corner, and

38:36

there was a closeout, and I did a sort of side

38:38

step, one dribble, and

38:40

I hit it, and I had

38:42

a toe on the line. So I think

38:44

it was like 51-31 when I hit it, or 53-31 after I hit it. And

38:50

I just was like, we're going to win this game,

38:52

we're going to win this series, and

38:55

then eight minutes later, we go

38:57

into half-gouge. It

38:59

was literally like a 17-0 run. And

39:01

then Monroe came in, got a couple buckets, like yeah.

39:04

That's a great example. Boston, Boston

39:06

crowd. Shout out Boston crowd. Yeah, you're going to

39:09

be there. You'll be there. We're going

39:11

to wrap with this one. MVNYheath

39:15

asks, this is from Instagram, has

39:17

PJ Washington become a better third

39:20

option than Tim Hardaway Jr. for

39:22

the Mavs? Love you, JJ. Thank

39:24

you. All

39:27

caps. All caps. Love

39:30

you, JJ. Thank you. I appreciate that.

39:32

I do. Look, I

39:35

think as it relates to

39:37

Tim Hardaway Jr., he has

39:41

sort of a clearly defined role as

39:45

this pop of scoring,

39:47

shooting, aggression off

39:50

of the bench. So I don't

39:52

necessarily view him

39:54

as like a third option. And

39:57

what PJ has brought and what

39:59

Gaffi has done. is brought and

40:01

lively as well is

40:04

like a defensive fit

40:07

and Derek Jordan Jones Jr. of course as well Josh

40:09

Green off the bench like what

40:13

essentially was created to me was

40:15

an identity for the team beyond

40:17

just hey we have Luca and Kyrie and

40:20

we can score the basketball I always tell

40:22

the story but you know Jason Kidd first

40:25

game of the season when being now his debut

40:27

I asked him about some defensive questions and he

40:29

said to me well not really sure

40:31

about our defense but we're pretty comfortable if we're

40:34

in a 120 125 game that we have Luca

40:36

and Kyrie and that paradigm has sort of

40:38

been flipped like you still have Luca and Kyrie and

40:40

you still have two guys that can get you buckets

40:42

in the clutch and create play make but now they

40:45

have an identity built on defense and

40:47

as it relates to a third

40:49

option I don't necessarily view PJ

40:51

Washington as like

40:53

the traditional third option like we're not

40:56

they're not necessarily gonna like oh

40:58

this is his time where we're gonna run offense like I

41:00

was a third option in Clippers first

41:03

quarter started the third I'm

41:06

I'm gonna get offense you know I'm

41:08

gonna get calls we're gonna run two-man action with Blake

41:10

we're gonna run run me off picks like that

41:13

to me is like more of like a third option PJ

41:16

Washington is a great

41:18

option to have because

41:20

of the way Dallas plays which is heavy ISO you

41:23

know Luca and Kyrie ball in hand get

41:26

two on the ball play out of that and he's

41:29

been massive in these playoffs yeah on

41:31

both ends of the floor they're not

41:33

in this position yeah without making this trade 51%

41:35

from three 22 points per game in

41:38

the series five attempts yeah from three

41:40

yeah but it is to your I'm saying yeah but

41:42

your point is just he's just he's

41:44

hitting shots this is not this is not

41:47

me knocking PJ Washington at all

41:49

I'm saying this is the way

41:51

Dallas plays it yeah a little

41:53

different than how I would

41:55

describe like the third option

41:58

which is like all right we got a our

42:00

two guys late game. This is

42:02

our sets. We're going to run through them. Started

42:05

the second quarter. You know, we got offense on the court

42:07

with our third option. We're going to run through him

42:09

or like, Hey, the first option, the

42:11

third option, they play two men together. It's

42:13

not, it's not that. Can you, you have

42:15

two twins. He's a byproduct on this team.

42:17

I'm not, this is not a knock on

42:20

PJ Washington. Again, on this team, he's a

42:22

byproduct of playing with Luca and Kyrie and

42:24

how Dallas plays two transcendent talents. Everyone else

42:26

needs to fit around those towns. And he's

42:28

just doing a great job of doing that.

42:30

He's been phenomenal. Loved PJ Washington and I

42:32

love his competitiveness. He's fucking awesome. All

42:34

right. Uh, this has been our, uh, mini playoff mailbag.

42:37

Thanks for sending the questions as always. We

42:39

actually, I love doing these, uh, mailbags. Uh,

42:42

let's get to our conversation with

42:44

New Orleans pelicans star. I

42:50

can't, I actually can't believe that we're all wearing

42:52

matching hats right now. I

42:54

think we look nice right now. Can you explain the backstory of

42:57

these hats? So I want

42:59

to do something with fashion and, uh, I

43:01

didn't really want to do clothes cause I feel like it's a

43:03

lot of, it's a lot of work to do clothes. But, uh,

43:05

I started wearing hats when I cut my hair and I

43:08

was like, you know, what if I do hats? I feel like it's a little different guys

43:10

do clothes all the time. So, um, I'm

43:13

gonna try to do hats and I decided to make

43:15

like a little friends of the family hat. So limited

43:18

edition. Yeah. Tommy ended up with 42.

43:21

Yeah. I got 84 for the birth year. Yeah.

43:23

Kind of old. Yeah. Traded

43:25

surprise, surprise. I'm turning 40. And I looked up,

43:27

I looked up his age and I was like,

43:30

Oh damn, 84. And that's a long

43:32

time ago. He has a lot of

43:34

birthday trips planned. He has like at least four. You

43:37

know, what's funny though. Where I was talking

43:39

with Chelsea today. Uh, so

43:41

I've got, well, I've got one, I

43:43

technically, I got a fourth trip, but, uh,

43:46

it's like a day, um, pinehurst

43:48

number two the week after, uh, the

43:51

US open. Those are very good ones. It's

43:53

in between game six and seven. So

43:55

I'm just going to be there for a day, but that

43:58

trip I was supposed to take right after the season. It's

44:00

like eight days and I may either

44:03

shrink it or just get away with it.

44:05

Get rid of it entirely. Cause I am

44:07

so exhausted from travel

44:09

right now. Like the idea of like getting done

44:11

with the NBA finals and then getting on an

44:13

airplane five days later for eight

44:15

days. Wow.

44:17

Almost sounds like an NBA schedule. Not

44:20

like you played or anything like that. But

44:22

we were saying this, we were saying this

44:24

last week, what's crazy is like he, three

44:27

different podcasts, broadcasting

44:30

every weekend, going up into

44:32

the finals. It's like, just the, it's like the schedule

44:34

is like non-stop. I don't have the exact number. Cause

44:36

obviously we don't know how many games are going to

44:39

be played in conference finals and

44:41

finals. I'm going to be somewhere

44:43

between 40 and 50 games this year. That's

44:47

an NBA road schedule.

44:49

Yeah. Yeah. That is a lot.

44:51

That is a lot. Uh,

44:54

did not realize this is what I was taking

44:56

on when I retired, but all good. All

44:58

good. Uh, we're going to do

45:01

the draft in a little bit, but we want

45:03

to have a basketball catch up first, cause we

45:05

always enjoy those. Um, Oklahoma

45:07

city thunder beat Dallas last night in

45:09

game one. Swept you guys.

45:11

All right. Um, I have

45:13

a question about them in a, in

45:15

a very broad way. I want to get into some

45:17

specific things, but in a broad way,

45:21

they feel like, and they felt like a

45:23

very dynamic team on both sides

45:25

of the ball. And by dynamic,

45:27

I mean, they certainly have an

45:30

identity with the way they drive the basketball and space

45:32

you, but it seems

45:34

like with their rotation and

45:36

the way they can manipulate match-ups on

45:38

both ends of the floor, it

45:41

feels like. They're like in

45:44

game. It feels like a constant riddle

45:46

to solve with them. Do you feel like

45:48

that's accurate? No, absolutely. I mean,

45:50

they made adjustments through each game. I mean,

45:52

even within the game, uh, Shay, first of

45:55

all, he's top

45:57

three in MVP vote by

45:59

itself, that's just. You have a guy like

46:01

that that's that dynamic and able to get to the rim.

46:04

It's tough to guard that now you have to pack

46:06

the paint a little bit, try to stop him and

46:08

he's kicking out the shooters and all the guys they

46:10

fit really well. It's like a really well organized puzzle

46:12

piece and then with Chet he opened it up for

46:15

them because when you have a fire that can pick

46:17

and pop, that drags your like when you're trying to

46:19

protect the rim, your big is down the floor. So

46:21

now you're getting into rotations and so they've

46:24

really done a good job of just

46:26

putting pieces around him. Chet, that just

46:28

fit really well and then diagnosed

46:30

he's been doing a great job. I mean

46:32

even early in the game yesterday I think

46:34

it was the start of the second quarter.

46:38

Chet got a matchup he wanted in

46:40

sort of the right slot high quadrant

46:42

and there was a switch and Jaylen

46:45

Williams was opposite him in sort of

46:47

the left high quadrant and

46:49

his man just complete sellout

46:52

to help. He's just like stationed

46:54

at the nail and it's just a quick

46:56

swing and Jaylen Williams hit the three. Next

46:59

possession they close out to Jaylen Williams, he steps

47:01

into a 17 footer and gets the roll. Like

47:05

he's the ninth or tenth guy on that team

47:07

right? That's the point

47:09

with them is like they fit.

47:11

Kacen Wallace last night, Aaron Wiggins

47:13

last night, all

47:15

their guys just fit into everything they do.

47:19

That's why I say like the

47:21

most interesting thing to me is

47:23

the way they're able to make

47:26

adjustments within a game to rotations,

47:28

to match ups, to style of

47:30

play, defensive coverage, whatever it may

47:32

be. I

47:35

think it's established now if it's not and I'm

47:37

curious to get your thoughts on this guy and

47:40

I know you're the same age and your competitors.

47:44

We have been singing Jaylen Williams praises

47:46

for a long time going back to the end of

47:48

last season. It

47:51

feels like he's a star, like a true

47:53

bona fide star. Yeah, I mean

47:55

I have no problem seeing his praise because he's

47:57

one of the better guys in league. He's real

47:59

good. would do and we,

48:03

you know, we couldn't a lot closer. I'm

48:05

not gonna say we're close, but we've come closer as the years.

48:07

I mean, I told him at the beginning of the year, I

48:09

was like, you're gonna be very good, bro. I

48:12

could see, I was like, you're gonna be very good in this, you'll

48:14

make a lot of money. And, you

48:16

know, he just, all he cares about is basketball,

48:18

man, that's really it. He just wants to hoop

48:20

in, I mean, fashion too, but mainly basketball.

48:23

All of you guys, all of you guys. Yeah.

48:25

Different generation. Yeah, I mean, y'all couldn't dress back

48:27

in the day, but,

48:30

no, Jay Williams, he's been a problem. He's been

48:32

a problem and like, he's that second guy for

48:34

them because every team you need at least like

48:37

two guys and Jay Williams is stepping into that

48:39

role to be that second guy for them. He's

48:42

just such a physical driver already in year two.

48:44

Like he's, like, he's crazy to think like, this

48:46

is the second year in the league and he's

48:49

just like so mature with his game. Like, he's

48:51

made a lot of strides, play making wise to

48:53

him and have a lot of synergy. And

48:55

you know, it's funny, I saw him

48:57

in our draft workout with the Pelicans

49:00

and this was early on, like even before the combine

49:02

and this is when he was projected to be like

49:04

a second round pick. And

49:06

I was watching him and I was just like, I

49:09

don't see second round, like, at all.

49:12

Like, he just moves different, puts the

49:14

ball in the basket, long, good

49:17

athlete. I'm just like, are y'all sure this is

49:19

like a second round workout? Like, you

49:21

sure he's supposed to be here right now? And then

49:23

combine came and he just blew up. And so

49:26

I was just happy to see that

49:28

he's, you know, really getting into that groove right

49:30

now. What are you supposed to do with the

49:32

step back? When you're defending him. I

49:37

mean, it's all about tendencies. I mean, for

49:39

him, when he's going left, that's

49:41

when he's more dynamic for sure. You

49:43

just have to make

49:45

sure you're sending him right. I mean, obviously,

49:48

the basketball players, NBA basketball players is that

49:50

too. So like sending him right isn't always

49:52

the answer. And, you know,

49:56

but trying to make it tough, that's really it.

50:00

The. Just your overall thoughts.

50:03

You know, even. Post all star

50:05

break. Now. In the play

50:07

offs playing in it. Watching.

50:09

It. At the physicality

50:12

that is occurring right now on

50:14

a nightly basis. I'm.

50:16

I'm all for it. I want to be clear on that. I.

50:19

Think what is frustrating as like

50:21

a viewer sometimes is a level

50:23

of inconsistency. Crew to crew, A.

50:26

Level of consistency. Sometimes within a game

50:28

time Haverstraw read an article. apparently the

50:31

word marginals nowhere near in the rulebook,

50:33

and now we're interpreting all these things

50:35

of a sudden as being marginal. A

50:38

marginal contact. I had our jail in

50:40

Branson call and game One where where

50:42

I he got the block. On

50:45

our Myles Turner and clearly was Amazon

50:47

only slotted into us to Mri or

50:49

do verse him Knoxville all right in

50:51

her stuff like year and stuff like

50:53

that that I'm like. I

50:56

let let let us play.

50:58

Aids is fine. But. I

51:00

just the consistency with was there are any

51:02

points throughout post all star break and playoffs

51:05

where you fall on. A

51:07

level of frustration I'm not trying to get

51:09

you find here are not. I'm just I'm

51:11

trying to understand Like. Did at

51:13

it seemed like. From. Viewing

51:16

and calling games mean court's eye

51:18

for games. There was a drastic

51:20

difference. Night tonight. Is

51:24

funny. You say that because around

51:26

April as when we stress on

51:28

air by stars like taken out

51:30

by physicality was ama remain game

51:32

one unfolding a tony like. There.

51:35

Is one play a guy drove and have put

51:37

two hands on him but a lot and

51:39

I call the finals I tony. Spoils.

51:42

More now an icon on a more Isis

51:45

is the I do understand like the time

51:47

a situation like is time to be more

51:49

physical like there's some things you know like

51:52

of and. that's why for me when

51:54

i came in my software you have to plan

51:56

and applause already how's life is so much more

51:58

different light you plan applause and play regular

52:00

season, you can't touch anybody regular season. But

52:03

then playoffs come around, forearm

52:06

shivering people, going

52:09

through the lane, anything goes almost. But

52:11

then it just depends on who it is, though. I

52:14

will say that. Obviously, some guys are

52:16

going to get more calls than others. And people

52:18

complain about it. But some of the guys, they've earned

52:20

that. It is what it

52:23

is. You've earned that, I'm not going

52:25

to say right, but earn that respect where a referee is

52:27

going to give you a little more of a leeway. They're

52:29

not going to let people touch you as much. I

52:31

think that goes both ways, right? It goes

52:34

for offensive players, obviously. Certain players

52:37

who've established themselves, if

52:39

you knock them off their path, they're going to get that call

52:41

most of the time. I think it goes

52:43

both ways with defensive players who have a reputation. Sometimes,

52:47

because we have one on our

52:49

team who has, I think, is

52:51

one of the de-defender in the league. You felt

52:53

like he had a tight whistle. Very

52:56

interesting. Very. Is

52:59

that age that he hasn't been around long enough?

53:02

I mean, maybe because

53:04

he doesn't have the antics. No,

53:07

he doesn't have the antics at all. He's not very

53:09

tall enough for it. He's too quiet. He's

53:11

not very. All he cares about. We're talking

53:14

about Herb Jones, by the way. Herb and

53:16

Eshon Jones would be exact as well. But

53:18

he's, I guess, age

53:21

could play a part into it. But if

53:23

you're watching Night in and Night Out, you don't think

53:25

that he's a young guy. He does not play defense

53:28

like he is in his third year. He's

53:30

not even his rookie year when he was playing defense. You

53:33

would think he's a vet. Just close out, just being

53:35

smart. That's the reason why our defense was so good,

53:37

was because of Herb Jones. What

53:39

do you think makes Dort so tough? I

53:43

mean, he's 6'5 to 40. He's

53:47

built like a fire hydrant. And

53:49

he's very agile. Great hands, screen

53:51

navigation, very elite. I'm going

53:53

to screen him. And he's hitting

53:55

me. Getting around me

53:57

and I'm just like, you just can't screen him. So

54:00

I think that's the biggest thing for him. He just puts

54:03

a lot of effort into the defensive end,

54:05

and he really locks into that. Speaking

54:08

of physicality, Minnesota

54:11

up 2-0 as of this recording against

54:14

Denver. And

54:16

there's been a lot of talk about, in

54:18

some ways, like a generational defense, right?

54:20

Certainly, I think in the last four

54:23

or five years, as spacing

54:26

has really taken over, as

54:28

three-point shooting has taken over across

54:30

the league, they

54:33

just, I feel like they defend, and

54:35

they've figured out sort of a formula

54:39

for guarding today's NBA

54:41

offices, right? What does it

54:43

feel like to play them?

54:46

What is different about playing the

54:48

Minnesota Timberwolves defense? Well, for

54:50

me this year, I played against them one time due

54:52

to injury. But in that one

54:54

time, though, it was very difficult.

54:58

I will tell you that. And that's regular

55:00

season early in the year, when they're probably not as

55:02

locked in. If you're just watching the

55:04

game, like they have Rudy

55:07

Roman. They have Kat,

55:09

who's been playing a lot better defense

55:11

on the bigs, especially against

55:13

Denver. They just put Kat

55:16

on. Yogic just, I mean, hopefully he

55:18

just doesn't foul. But when he's not

55:20

fouling, or like staying out of foul

55:22

trouble guarding Yogic, and you have Rudy

55:24

Roman, and you have Jayden McDaniels, who

55:27

is arguably one of the best defenders, Anthony

55:29

Edwards, another two A star. And

55:31

then Nikhil, when he comes off the bench, who's

55:33

been playing phenomenal defense, it's hard

55:36

to score on that. And they make it tough

55:38

every single possession. So like any

55:40

little daylight you have, it's almost like, all right,

55:43

I have to shoot this. Or if

55:45

it's like, it might not even be a great shot, but it's like,

55:47

I've been getting all these tough looks. I'm

55:49

again, it's been physical the entire time. I

55:52

got to take a shot. And so like, it plays with

55:54

your mental a little bit, because they've been so

55:57

good, so locked in defensively. Yeah,

55:59

I. You know, there's something about the,

56:03

you used the word synergy earlier. There's

56:06

something about the synergy and personnel with

56:08

them. Absolutely. Where on the wing, they

56:11

have more than capable individual

56:13

defenders. And on the

56:15

backside, they have size across the board

56:17

with Reed towns, Kyle

56:20

Anderson, and then they have go

56:22

bear. Yeah. So it's like, I

56:24

liken it to like when we played, uh,

56:27

our, our best defensive teams, which we had a

56:29

bunch of them in Orlando, we had Dwight.

56:32

We didn't necessarily have great wing defenders,

56:34

but we, we had a top five

56:37

defense nearly every year. Um,

56:40

they have great wing defenders and they

56:42

have a Dwight on the backside. So

56:44

that's, I think that's ultimately like why

56:46

it's so tough, not, not just schemes

56:49

and stuff, but it is, it is

56:51

personnel. Like Tim Connelly has built that

56:53

team really well, just in terms

56:55

of building a defensive juggernaut. And knowing

56:57

like when you first saw that

56:59

team and you like cat at the four Rudy at

57:01

the five is like, ah, is that really going to

57:03

work? Like you've seen Rudy

57:06

in a playoffs with Utah and like he gets

57:08

play off the court. But if you

57:10

really think about it, what wing defenders that they have

57:13

other than Royce, like if

57:15

people are getting straight line driven, like there's

57:17

not many people that you can't save everybody.

57:19

And so now it's just like, and Jay

57:22

McDaniels and Nikhil, first of

57:24

all, it's hard to get past them in the first

57:26

place. And when you do now as Rudy, it's like,

57:28

all right, congrats. This is the price for you getting

57:30

past me is Rudy go bare at the rim. Yeah.

57:32

Enjoy that. Um, this

57:35

is a general question that I just

57:37

kind of thought of and I'm

57:39

curious to get your thoughts on it

57:42

because when we

57:44

think of great individual defenders on the

57:46

wing, we almost

57:49

always picture someone guarding

57:51

Kobe Bryant or

57:53

someone guarding Kevin Durant in

57:55

isolation or someone guarding LeBron in

57:58

isolation. me,

58:01

maybe the most underrated thing about

58:03

any great perimeter defender is simply

58:05

screen navigation. Absolutely. That, that to

58:07

me is, and that's where I

58:10

think Aloudort, uh,

58:12

Derek White and Alex

58:14

Caruso and the Minnesota guys,

58:16

they all in herbs, herbs in that category

58:18

too. There's several guys, but that

58:21

to me is like the most underrated

58:23

thing that people just don't talk about

58:25

enough. I mean, that's today's offense. There's

58:27

so many screens. There's so many different

58:29

actions like, and also there's

58:32

so many moving screens too. Like go

58:35

bury the screen and he has a big knee brace

58:37

on and like you try to run through that, like

58:40

you're going to be in pain. So like you have

58:42

to find ways to navigate through that because 48 minutes

58:44

of that is rough. I'll tell you from firsthand experience,

58:46

it's not fun. I played against the Jazz. Yeah, I

58:48

played against the Jazz. I think he had two knee

58:50

braces there. It was both sides.

58:52

So that's tough. How much

58:55

of that, how much of screen navigation

58:57

you think is instinctual versus just film

58:59

and learning it? I become a lot

59:01

better defensively. So I think I can answer this

59:03

a little bit now, but I think it's more

59:05

so experienced if I'm being honest with you because

59:08

when I first got to the league, I was getting killed

59:10

on screens. And then also you just

59:13

got to understand like one who you're guarding and

59:16

then two, like you

59:18

got to press up into the ball. Like you're just going to

59:20

stay back on the ball. Then you're going to get screened by

59:22

everybody. That is just how it is in

59:24

the NBA. So I think experience

59:26

is the biggest thing, just seeing those

59:28

reps, getting those pictures because

59:31

you can watch as much film as you want to. But if

59:33

you don't implement it to the game, like it doesn't really matter.

59:35

Yeah, there's a learned experience from all

59:38

this stuff in the NBA. I

59:40

would add that I

59:44

see more and more with the

59:46

best defenders, coaches giving

59:49

them freedom to navigate. And

59:53

by that, because I played for coaches where

59:55

it was very rule based. Here's

59:57

the Scattering report. You're going over the top. On.

1:00:00

An Oscar you're chasing. Ah, years

1:00:02

is gotta report you're going under on a big

1:00:04

role. In. Teams

1:00:06

manipulated that. Okay, we're just gonna set the screen.

1:00:09

A buyer for a bright. Were

1:00:11

to change the angle. If. We

1:00:13

run a backside action right? and so what.

1:00:15

I've what I've seen. I've talked to a

1:00:17

few coaches around the league about this. They

1:00:19

allow their best defenders the freedom to figure

1:00:22

it out on their own. They're not. Putting.

1:00:24

A set of rules has you have to

1:00:27

chase this guy every single time or has

1:00:29

yet to go over the pick every single

1:00:31

time. And number one, what allows it to

1:00:33

do is in emergency situations. They. Can

1:00:36

get back, they can recover. And. Number

1:00:38

Two, it mixes up. For.

1:00:40

The off it's a player, his rhythm right

1:00:42

and then the other part by screen navigation

1:00:44

and I've dude, I I would. There's so

1:00:46

many clips that when I'm watching games are

1:00:48

sort of. Like. On say that

1:00:51

clip. Those. High

1:00:53

Pick and rolls. Like. The

1:00:55

really super high like loading feet.

1:00:57

Yeah, there's so many times. Where

1:00:59

that the the big will com set the screen

1:01:02

and he'll clip the guy. Like. Get

1:01:04

a piece of the body and.

1:01:06

He. Doesn't die on screen. That's

1:01:09

the biggest thing I'd There were guys you

1:01:11

know if we play against were like this

1:01:13

guy's gonna die on screen to screen and

1:01:15

isn't enough pressure and the best defenders They

1:01:17

just don't die on screen, not a just

1:01:20

a constant pursuit always you have to die

1:01:22

off each other now forty don't support of

1:01:24

like not conceding switches right now for so

1:01:26

if it's if it's if it's a situation

1:01:28

where they're trying to manipulate a match up

1:01:31

and. You. Ah,

1:01:33

are setting a screen with a guy

1:01:35

that you don't want Guarding the ball

1:01:37

handler right? It's on. It's on the

1:01:39

primary defender. To not concede the

1:01:41

switch. And and that's what I think the

1:01:43

best guys do Now I heard he's very

1:01:45

good about those. Well why does he talk

1:01:47

to you guys like I don't like. In.

1:01:50

My side fucking emergency have to scream at

1:01:52

you like stay with your guy to he

1:01:54

tell you that he's good. He's gone to

1:01:56

a point preserve he hasn't talked. Does it

1:01:58

does? Now he does. He does. And

1:02:00

he knows, I promise you, the

1:02:03

best thing ever, I'll be on the ball,

1:02:05

and all I hear from Herb is, I'm

1:02:07

on your left side, send him here. I'm

1:02:09

like, all right, thanks. I'm just like, all

1:02:12

right, cool. If you get past me, you

1:02:14

got Herb to deal with. So he gives

1:02:16

us confidence in that aspect because he's calling

1:02:18

out stuff. He's the Draymond,

1:02:21

per se, calling out different actions.

1:02:24

He's kicking guys out, sending guys a

1:02:26

low man. Even Larry, he's

1:02:28

really good about that as well because there's

1:02:30

a lot of times where we got guys that we

1:02:32

don't really want in actions because of rotations.

1:02:34

And also just like, if they're a low

1:02:37

man, I mean, at the end

1:02:39

of the day, genetics are still a thing

1:02:41

that plan to a factor. Like, if you're six foot, you're

1:02:43

not going to stop a ruticle bear. Yeah.

1:02:45

Room run. It just is what it is. And

1:02:48

so Herb is really good about getting actions,

1:02:50

peel switching. Me and him talk a lot,

1:02:52

like a lot, before the game. He'll send

1:02:54

me clips, actually, because he watches every game

1:02:56

after the game. He'll send me a clip

1:02:59

and be like, all right, what'd you see

1:03:01

here? And then we'll talk about it. And

1:03:03

we'll be like, all right, so if we ever see this again, he

1:03:05

can literally just be like one of those actions. So like, let you know

1:03:08

they have it in the right slot. And they swing

1:03:10

it to the right. They swing it to the left

1:03:12

slot. And basically, since you're in a high shift, most

1:03:15

of the time, guys boom drive that. They're going

1:03:17

to drive really quick to the rim. Get

1:03:19

that guy in the pool. Boom drive. OK,

1:03:21

that's all right. Sorry about that. OK. That's

1:03:23

our terminology. Stampy. Stampy. Stampy. Stampy. If

1:03:26

a guy boom drives that, Stampy

1:03:28

catches that, a lot of times

1:03:30

that guy in the high shift isn't going to get

1:03:32

back in the shot. So what we try to do

1:03:35

sometimes is the guy in the corner, he'll pick up

1:03:37

the drive, and then Herb will run through the corner.

1:03:39

And it's part of our principle still, because

1:03:41

he'll still be sending him baseline, because he

1:03:43

cannot go middle, because Herb is coming

1:03:46

from that side. So different stuff

1:03:48

like that, a little nuance, does that mean him talk about

1:03:50

and try to get a little more synergy on the defensive

1:03:52

end? I love that. Another

1:03:56

point I wanted to ask you about was

1:03:58

just the face of the league. passing

1:04:00

of the torch concept. There's

1:04:03

a number of generational players that

1:04:05

are either didn't make the playoffs

1:04:07

or no longer in the playoffs.

1:04:11

And I it's it seems

1:04:13

like it's been a theme since

1:04:15

the All-Star break. It's been a talking point. You

1:04:18

know, the project we're working on with

1:04:21

full well for the docu-series on which I

1:04:23

know you were part of for

1:04:25

the docu-series on the NBA playoffs. When

1:04:28

we first met back in October, like

1:04:30

Jason and I talked about this. We

1:04:33

were like, it feels like this could

1:04:35

be potentially the season where

1:04:37

we see this passing of the torch where it's

1:04:39

it's about the next guy and

1:04:41

it it sort of happened,

1:04:43

right? I mean, Jokic is still in it and

1:04:45

he's, you know, three time MVP, but

1:04:48

he's not 35. He's not 36. Right.

1:04:52

Jokic, Tatum, Ant,

1:04:54

of course. I

1:04:56

mean, you think about the guys that

1:04:58

you besides me that you grew up just

1:05:01

really loving. I

1:05:03

love how you do this. I'm

1:05:06

kidding. You're like

1:05:08

good analyst LeBron, Durant, Curry, PG,

1:05:10

Harden, Westbrook, like, you know, guys

1:05:13

from your generation, those are

1:05:15

your favorite players growing up, right? Absolutely.

1:05:18

Do you guys talk about who

1:05:21

the next face of the league could be? Do

1:05:23

you guys talk about this concept of passing the

1:05:25

torch? Absolutely. You do. Absolutely. We always

1:05:27

talk about it. Like we have, I mean,

1:05:29

we have a lot of debates on our locker room because

1:05:31

we're pretty close to that group and we talk about a

1:05:33

range of different things, but basketball wise

1:05:35

things that we talk about definitely passing

1:05:37

of a torch and actually, you

1:05:39

know, it's crazy. We sat in this seat about a

1:05:41

year ago and we talked about

1:05:43

Ant and I promise this isn't a

1:05:46

Minnesota Timberwolves podcast right here, but we are talking

1:05:48

a lot about them right now, but we

1:05:50

really, we really said like, what is his

1:05:53

feeling? And I said in my head top

1:05:55

five player in the league and right now

1:05:57

is looking like he's one of those top five players

1:05:59

in the league. is because of

1:06:01

what he's doing defensively and also just

1:06:03

overall just taking over the game. Like

1:06:05

he's looking like one of those

1:06:08

guys where it's like, oh wow, like he's closing games.

1:06:10

He has a ball in his hands, he's making

1:06:12

decisions and he's stopping their guys on the other

1:06:15

end. That Phoenix series, he literally took over the

1:06:17

series. In your eyes, as the

1:06:19

face of the league, is there anything more

1:06:21

than just on-court performance? Is there

1:06:24

a marketing angle to it, which matters?

1:06:26

Personality means everything. I mean, you see

1:06:28

that with Ann, he has a very

1:06:30

big personality and people gravitate towards that.

1:06:33

Shay, his personality is a little

1:06:35

more stoic and obviously his market

1:06:38

plays a little role into that, but

1:06:40

his off-the-court presence is very huge.

1:06:43

So that's when, you know,

1:06:45

that brings a different, it's a little different than Ann,

1:06:47

but it's similar because they both have big personalities, they

1:06:49

just show it in different ways. So, and

1:06:51

also they're pretty good at basketball too, so I think that

1:06:54

helps a lot. Wim B? Yeah,

1:06:56

Wim B's different, bro. Nah,

1:06:58

he's different. Winning matters to this. Absolutely,

1:07:03

unless you are Wim B, where it's like

1:07:05

he's just different. Yeah, no, no, no, but

1:07:07

I'm saying like long-term.

1:07:09

Absolutely. Like, the reason

1:07:12

LeBron, the reason Steph have been the face of

1:07:14

the league for the last 10 to 12 years

1:07:17

since Kobe, it's because they won. The reason Kobe

1:07:19

was, because he won. Absolutely. The reason Jordan was

1:07:21

and Magic,

1:07:24

Larry, like they won. That's

1:07:27

important. And I don't necessarily

1:07:30

think you have to

1:07:32

have Ann's personality. No. But

1:07:35

you have to be willing to embrace

1:07:38

it at some level. For sure. Because

1:07:40

all those guys, Jordan, Kobe, LeBron, Steph,

1:07:42

they all have different personalities. Yeah, but

1:07:44

it's still a aura around them. Yes.

1:07:47

Like people go like, okay, I'll take this. Yeah,

1:07:49

for sure. And it's crazy to like, sorry to

1:07:52

cut you off Tom, but it's crazy to mention

1:07:54

all those guys. And During that

1:07:56

last stretch of the year, we're all fighting for

1:07:58

playoff position. I Played against every. The one

1:08:00

of those guys in an aside, just

1:08:02

wears fine tooth and nail to Gainesville

1:08:05

Wells. I want forty nine games as

1:08:07

a C. Does our crazy,

1:08:09

That is all. You know what can I

1:08:11

actually do? A little rain here but kind

1:08:13

to kind of other an all out. Sco

1:08:18

other. Pets.

1:08:24

There's. Always these Nsl and and be a

1:08:26

comparisons. Why the Nfl is better? Why

1:08:28

be more people watch it? Why don't

1:08:30

people watch the and bit baba One

1:08:32

of the things. Ah, That

1:08:35

I think has come up consistently. Is.

1:08:37

The Idea: parity. right? And

1:08:40

I have said this multiple times throughout the

1:08:42

season. That. This.

1:08:45

Is. The. Best. The.

1:08:48

League has been in terms

1:08:50

of overall. Talent.

1:08:52

Depths. And. How that.

1:08:55

Depth of talent is spread across the

1:08:57

league. And it's reflected. I

1:09:00

think in the number of good teams

1:09:02

in the Lakers were like. People

1:09:04

treating the Lakers but say like a

1:09:06

bad basketball team or the even the

1:09:08

warriors. The warriors were not a bad

1:09:10

basketball team, they were a good basketball

1:09:12

team. There's just a lot of good

1:09:15

basketball teams and there's a lot of

1:09:17

good players. He.

1:09:19

Keeps coming up. Bit. Somehow.

1:09:21

The Denver Nuggets. Had. The

1:09:23

worst finals run of all time and people always

1:09:25

talk about the seeds A plate number for is

1:09:27

what they that I'm when she's they had to

1:09:30

play the it's a they didn't have a choice

1:09:32

know right now so gets. Think

1:09:34

about last year. Nuggets One

1:09:36

One say fifty three games. Some.

1:09:39

My that Sakara Lakers won

1:09:41

Forty three is the lawyers

1:09:43

one forty four. I'm.

1:09:47

In football. If. I'd twelve

1:09:49

and fourteen with some use and sixteen games cause

1:09:51

I've really though he bought into the seventeen game

1:09:53

idea. Suppose it's one. Fourteen is what we grow

1:09:55

up to him for team. Plays.

1:09:59

A nine and seventy. And a 10

1:10:01

and 16 right the difference in

1:10:03

win percentage is like 15

1:10:05

to 19 percent The

1:10:07

difference in win percentage between a 54 win team and

1:10:09

a 43 win team is like 12 or 13 percent

1:10:14

So like we have parody in the

1:10:16

league People need to

1:10:18

stop fucking paying attention to the seeds the

1:10:21

seeds don't matter all these teams are good

1:10:23

You have to nobody plays

1:10:25

82 games anymore. It's impossible. It's

1:10:27

literally impossible So you have

1:10:29

to factor all this stuff in you can't use like

1:10:32

oh well in the 90s this team played this team in

1:10:34

this thing well guess what the eight seeds They

1:10:37

sucked Terrible and you haven't

1:10:39

even thought about this nature is gonna be even

1:10:42

worse. I mythos is coming back Spurs

1:10:44

are gonna the Spurs do this. I mean Spurs are

1:10:46

gonna do something Rockets

1:10:49

like that's even more teams in the

1:10:51

West. They're like gonna be good. There's gonna be no

1:10:53

bad teams Yeah, Philadelphia has a

1:10:55

seven seed Philadelphia is a seven seed

1:10:59

They have maxi they have a cap space But

1:11:04

also to your point to your point about the seating thing with

1:11:06

a good Denver thing like Okay, it doesn't

1:11:08

matter what seed the Lakers are when they

1:11:11

have LeBron James Anthony Davis But

1:11:13

it doesn't matter. It doesn't matter beat LeBron

1:11:15

James Anthony Davis in a playoff series to

1:11:17

beat them four times and it's also like

1:11:19

it's not their fault Like

1:11:21

this is playing well whoever's in front of them. That's

1:11:24

not their fault that if they're injured

1:11:26

or like a little big Like the chemistry isn't

1:11:28

there and that's not their problem. Yeah, you still

1:11:30

have to put the ball in a basket I

1:11:32

think people underestimate used to have to put the

1:11:34

ball in a basket. Do you think we've talked

1:11:36

about this a good amount but Not

1:11:39

living in the moment, but just seeing what Minnesota is doing. Hold on.

1:11:41

Hold on a little bit Real quick.

1:11:43

I just wanna say one last thing. Nobody ever

1:11:45

says this about an NFL team. No Nobody

1:11:48

said if there's

1:11:50

been wildcard teams that have fucking

1:11:52

won NFL championships It won the Super Bowl

1:11:54

and nobody's like oh there their run was

1:11:56

a fraud Why no,

1:11:58

they didn't say about the Chiefs Well, I just

1:12:01

don't understand why it was crazy about the NBA why? Cuz

1:12:05

it's like they play so many games. I like

1:12:07

no it all goes back to the fucking goat

1:12:09

and legacy bullshit Yeah, people

1:12:11

would rather talk about that than basketball. You're really worried

1:12:13

about this one Do

1:12:21

you think do you think super teams are officially

1:12:23

dead? I Do

1:12:27

you think is look that

1:12:29

is a different way now I think is

1:12:31

not okay We have four guys that are

1:12:33

all-stars in like really good high plate high-paid

1:12:36

players But like instead

1:12:38

it's more so this team is

1:12:40

really cohesive Like is a super

1:12:42

team because you can't attack anybody on this

1:12:44

team Everybody can score they

1:12:46

can dribble they can pass they can shoot So

1:12:49

I think that could be like the newer Definition of

1:12:51

a super team because obviously with the second apron we've

1:12:53

seen well in the CBA rules

1:12:56

and the taxes We've seen

1:12:58

you it's gonna be tough to make like a super team

1:13:00

with Guys that are making a lot

1:13:02

of money and then the rest of the guys not making much money

1:13:04

at all I think the idea

1:13:06

and again, I'm happy to be wrong

1:13:08

on this I really am I'm happy

1:13:11

to be wrong if the Phoenix Suns

1:13:13

go on to win a championship next

1:13:15

year with that group and Those

1:13:17

three guys together. I'm happy to be wrong. I'm happy to be

1:13:19

wrong I mean if the Lakers somehow trade for a third star

1:13:21

and they go on to win a trade like I'm happy to

1:13:23

be Wrong. I'm still in the West now. Hold on I'm

1:13:26

saying I'm happy to be wrong. I'm not saying I would

1:13:28

be happy if the either those teams won I'm saying I'm

1:13:30

happy to be wrong. All right, I like I like being

1:13:32

wrong. It's fine. Okay, my point was gonna be on

1:13:36

the death of the super team I I

1:13:40

would say the idea of building

1:13:42

a Three

1:13:45

star three max level team through

1:13:49

trades and free agency

1:13:52

that probably is done if You

1:13:55

can build a younger team through

1:13:57

the draft and timely trades

1:14:01

that can still exist. Like OKC

1:14:04

is going to have three max guys in

1:14:07

three years. Correct. They're

1:14:09

gonna have three max guys. Jaylen and Chet in three years, we

1:14:11

got a max contract and Shay will be on a max contract.

1:14:14

So there's still a way to do it. It

1:14:17

just, to me, it has to be through the

1:14:19

draft or you have two, you have a bunch

1:14:21

of young assets, you have future picks and

1:14:23

you trade for that third star that way

1:14:25

versus going all in on three

1:14:28

guys and not being

1:14:30

able to build out a competent roster. Oh,

1:14:32

for sure. You're going to Knicks

1:14:34

tonight, game two. What is

1:14:36

there to say about Jaylen at this point, about what

1:14:38

he's doing? I

1:14:42

can't lie, that's incredible. I'm not, like I'm

1:14:44

a hater at heart, but yeah, there's nothing

1:14:46

I can hate on about this. Like he's,

1:14:49

this has been incredible. I mean, he scored four, four

1:14:52

straight games with 40 plus points. Like last

1:14:55

versus Joe is my majority. I

1:14:57

mean, there's not really much else you could

1:14:59

say about that. He's doing this at six,

1:15:01

one. They have what, seven

1:15:04

guys? Seven guys in

1:15:06

the rotation now. Yeah, I mean, it's tips though.

1:15:08

Yeah, it's always going to be seven anyway, but let's

1:15:12

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1:17:06

Tommy, what is the topic for today?

1:17:09

We are drafting figures from world history

1:17:11

you wish you could wear a throwback

1:17:13

jersey of. Okay, real quick, who came

1:17:15

up with this? You did? No,

1:17:17

Tommy did. Tommy did, okay. So

1:17:22

there's always room for interpretation. I

1:17:24

just want to point out that these figures, I

1:17:27

think in general, do not have throwback

1:17:29

jerseys, right? These are non-sports

1:17:31

figures. You can pick a sports

1:17:33

figure if you want, but it probably makes more

1:17:35

sense to pick a non-sports figure. Real people. Like

1:17:38

an old sports figure, say like. It can be

1:17:40

whatever you want. Anyway. Jackie Robinson. Oh, so no,

1:17:42

like Larry Nance. No, do it. No,

1:17:44

if you're going to Coachella. You'll

1:17:46

lose the draft. If you're going to Coachella tomorrow and

1:17:50

you got to pick out, you can have a

1:17:53

jersey of any person in world history. These are

1:17:55

those five. So it can be a sports person. It can

1:17:57

be a, it just has to be a living person. I just wanted to

1:17:59

do an old Larry Nance. I also am curious about it like You

1:18:06

know, we we have a winner for every draft

1:18:08

Yeah You know that just curious

1:18:10

like are we measuring this by the

1:18:12

overall historical impact of the five people

1:18:14

the cool factor? I think it's open

1:18:17

for interpretation. Yeah for sure. But I

1:18:19

mean How

1:18:21

are you gonna make your splash at Coachella with this

1:18:23

first? I have a great first pick but then after

1:18:25

that I'm a I might play like I

1:18:27

might have a play that you can't deny So

1:18:30

let's see it. All right start up So

1:18:32

my first pick will be a dr.

1:18:34

James. Naysmith. Oh Are

1:18:42

you putting just naysmith or you putting dr.

1:18:44

James naysmith on the jersey hmm,

1:18:46

I Feel

1:18:49

like it has to be a Kansas or Yeah,

1:18:52

I thought has to be some type of Kansas Jersey. So

1:18:54

I think I'd be Kansas Jersey and then a nice myth

1:18:57

I'm I gonna put the dr. James on there I

1:19:02

I'm up. Mm-hmm.

1:19:04

I'm gonna go Jesus Okay,

1:19:07

interesting that is a printing a pick

1:19:12

Taking that one right now, okay, you know can't let

1:19:14

that go to the second round. Yeah, I

1:19:17

thought about that one, but you know, I Mean,

1:19:20

yeah interest Take

1:19:22

for some people I won the draft at that pick.

1:19:24

All right first

1:19:26

two picks I'm

1:19:30

gonna go with Abe

1:19:34

Lincoln and Gandhi

1:19:37

Those are my first two. That's a good one. I

1:19:39

don't like in was like in the did great first

1:19:41

pick Yeah, I was hoping I'd go with Gandhi check

1:19:43

that one. He just chat Jersey, but Gandhi's

1:19:51

also fire Gandhi's a great Jersey because anytime

1:19:53

you get the one word I got one

1:19:55

of those coming up. Yeah For

1:19:57

sure. Yeah, that's yeah Those

1:20:00

are also interesting because I was when I was doing this

1:20:02

I was like man I would be

1:20:04

dope this guy had like a massive historical

1:20:06

impact, but whoo He's got some skeletons in

1:20:08

the yeah, you know we're not gonna say

1:20:11

no Right through a

1:20:13

couple out there. We're not gonna say right now that Just

1:20:16

like dude you haven't signed that contract yet I Have

1:20:21

dark humor I'm

1:20:28

gonna pick Albert

1:20:32

Einstein that's my second pick. Okay It's

1:20:36

interesting because I was I was Was

1:20:39

thinking about Einstein Certainly

1:20:41

had a massive influence But

1:20:44

then I was thinking about the

1:20:46

lineage between Einstein

1:20:48

and all of the

1:20:50

physicists and then we get to

1:20:52

Oppenheimer and the Manhattan Project and the

1:20:54

outrage around that movie

1:20:59

Objectively it was a great movie and

1:21:02

Christopher Nolan. I'm not making any

1:21:04

statements about the some

1:21:07

of the decisions once they actually built the

1:21:09

bomb, but it was a great movie

1:21:11

But the outrage afterwards I was like yep Einstein

1:21:13

off the list picking the theory of relativity

1:21:16

what happened after that I don't know There's

1:21:18

a lot to unpack, but I

1:21:20

think that Einstein's resume speaks for itself. Okay,

1:21:22

okay All

1:21:25

right, so next pick will be Rosa

1:21:27

Parks good one. Yeah,

1:21:30

you can't you can't say the bad one. Yeah Oh

1:21:39

And in that similar direction Malcolm X Okay,

1:21:42

no, no Jersey number on there just an X.

1:21:44

No, I was gonna say Malcolm. Well, you know

1:21:47

what just eggs fist on the back Okay,

1:21:49

like power fist on the blood on the back. Yep

1:21:52

This is a play I'm making that you can't can't

1:21:54

really say these are bad plays bad pick. So yeah

1:21:58

We love both those things This

1:22:02

is great, just trades

1:22:04

went in the trap. Alright,

1:22:10

I have a lot of places I can

1:22:12

go with this third pick. I

1:22:16

think I'm going to go with Michelangelo. I

1:22:19

wanted a one-worder. You

1:22:22

went to Florence last year, right? You were nearly?

1:22:24

Yes. Yeah. He built

1:22:27

the impact and built modern art. Built

1:22:30

Florence. That's a respectable pick. And

1:22:35

that jersey would go hard with Michelangelo on the back.

1:22:38

There might be some confusion about the turtle, but I

1:22:42

think you probably could have waited on

1:22:44

that one. Yeah, I think early. Yeah, I

1:22:46

could have probably. I could have probably. I promise you, I wouldn't

1:22:48

have picked that one. I could have sat on it,

1:22:50

but I wanted to have him. Talk

1:22:53

about team building, he fits into my roster.

1:22:55

For sure. Man. You

1:22:58

have a list right now? Yeah, I have a

1:23:00

list. I always have a list. So

1:23:03

I've got Lincoln, I've got Johnny. I'm

1:23:07

going to go

1:23:10

with two unimpeachable picks. I'm

1:23:14

going to go with Harriet Tubman and

1:23:16

Martin Luther King Jr. Wow, he used

1:23:18

my place. He used my place. He

1:23:23

has, he has, he has Abe

1:23:26

Lincoln, Harriet Tubman and MLK. He

1:23:28

just refined my place. I

1:23:30

just refined your place. You've got to give the guy

1:23:33

credit, man. Yep. Yep.

1:23:36

Try to shook right now. Should

1:23:39

have had a list. I got a good next one.

1:23:41

I got a good next one. All

1:23:45

right. I

1:23:48

think for the overall impact, you guys might think this

1:23:50

is a reach, but I think for the overall impact,

1:23:53

I want to have him on my board. I'm going Steve

1:23:55

Jobs. Hmm. Okay,

1:24:00

just jobs in the back. I

1:24:02

like a green, like Seattle, like

1:24:04

a storm, Seattle storm color Jersey. So

1:24:10

again, what's

1:24:13

after jobs. You know what I mean? I

1:24:16

mean, the iPhone, the iPhone, which has

1:24:18

created an entire generation of depressed, secure

1:24:20

teenagers. I'm

1:24:23

just saying you have to think about these things. If you

1:24:25

want to look at that way, sure. But

1:24:27

would you have been able to make it to the studio today

1:24:29

to tape if it wasn't for the iPhone? Probably.

1:24:35

You used to use maps back in the day. I

1:24:37

did use maps. I'm

1:24:44

going. Is this right? All right. Cool. I'm

1:24:47

happy with it. Hey, that's all that

1:24:49

matters. You're happy with it, bro. Yep. All

1:24:51

right, Trey, you got, you got two. I got

1:24:53

some guesses on who you're going to pick, but I promise you,

1:24:55

you're not going to guess this next one. Okay. So

1:24:58

my next one will be David Stern.

1:25:03

Wow. I was not going to

1:25:05

guess that. I know you weren't. No,

1:25:07

you were not. And then

1:25:09

my last, no, that's, oh, you got, I

1:25:11

guess. Yeah. Yeah. Fuck. Yeah. My last pick.

1:25:17

I'm gonna go Spike Lee. Spike

1:25:20

Lee, New York next Jersey. Wow. All right.

1:25:22

Well, he's been there for a lot

1:25:24

of very historical things. So incredible

1:25:27

filmmaker. Yeah.

1:25:29

Well, you'll probably see him tonight. Yeah.

1:25:33

And last time we played in next to I'd talk a lot. It's

1:25:36

interesting though. You picked three very,

1:25:39

two very related to basketball, one related, so you

1:25:41

pick three basketball related ones. I like it. I'm

1:25:43

just, I'm just going to say, Trey, you're not

1:25:45

going to win, dude. Are you sure about that?

1:25:48

Spike Lee is in your top five of all

1:25:50

time. Hey, there's

1:25:52

a lot of people in there. There's some

1:25:54

people in there. There's some people in there.

1:25:56

I'm telling you, if you go against that

1:25:58

one, you're not going to look good. Yeah,

1:26:00

you're right. We gotta just say it. No, you gotta

1:26:02

say it. You gotta check. All right.

1:26:04

Go against it if you want to. Okay.

1:26:07

There's so many, there's so

1:26:09

many that feel terrible leaving off.

1:26:13

But I think just

1:26:16

to give it, just

1:26:19

to give it a little bit of a mix

1:26:22

for my fifth pick, I'm gonna go with

1:26:24

Beethoven. Okay.

1:26:30

We can definitely see the different interests. Yeah. And

1:26:33

the draft. Just trying to hit all these different

1:26:35

buckets. No, we see. It's a good way

1:26:38

to bring everybody together. I just want to point out, I

1:26:40

just want to point out that Tommy

1:26:43

picked four white dudes. And

1:26:46

Jesus. I just want to pick that.

1:26:48

I just want to point that out. And Jesus though. You know,

1:26:50

and who's my first pick? I

1:26:53

just want to point that out. I mean, yes, for

1:26:55

sure. I love your first pick. Your other picks? I

1:26:59

had it. Might be a little controversial. That's all. There's

1:27:02

no diversity in your team right now. You're

1:27:05

all right. And don't just...

1:27:07

You're all right. I don't have anything. I have

1:27:09

no response. I

1:27:12

would have gone... I want to name a few that I'm

1:27:14

debating about, but I know who I'm gonna pick for my

1:27:17

fifth. I

1:27:21

would have gone with Da Vinci over Michelangelo,

1:27:23

particularly in the third round. That seems very high. It's

1:27:25

a reach. I

1:27:29

also really want to draft as a vanity pick. I

1:27:31

think I have a chance to win this, so I'm

1:27:33

not gonna draft this guy. But for

1:27:35

anybody who loves the city of Paris, George

1:27:38

Eugene Houseman, who basically

1:27:40

rebuilt the city, wide avenues, parks,

1:27:42

squares, the architecture, all that stuff.

1:27:44

That's a Spike Lee-esque pick. I

1:27:46

know. Of course,

1:27:48

I could do the real vanity play, which

1:27:51

is Christopher Nolan. I could pick a

1:27:53

Nolan throwback jersey. But I'm not gonna do that.

1:27:55

I'm gonna pick Thomas Edison, who basically... You're

1:28:00

gonna be less another white guy. That's great

1:28:02

value for the fifth round the incandescent light

1:28:04

bulb Implement

1:28:07

implementation of the incandescent light bulb. I already

1:28:09

made my choice. I like reason we have

1:28:11

to steal I like the light diversity on

1:28:13

your team now. I already made my choice.

1:28:15

I've already I gotta I gotta live with

1:28:17

it I'm

1:28:20

scared I'm not gonna

1:28:22

lie. There's a good team. This is I don't follow

1:28:24

it. I mean, yeah, he did he had a smart

1:28:26

strategy He I

1:28:28

mean he copied my play but it's okay Who

1:28:33

do you even even he's People you were gonna

1:28:36

drop I was gonna drop Joan of Arc But then

1:28:38

I didn't know enough about what she actually did it should be

1:28:40

a crazy Jersey But I would have you guys had asked me

1:28:42

what she did. I wouldn't be able to say I Feel

1:28:45

like an Obama one would be great too.

1:28:47

Obviously because of yeah, he's a basketball like

1:28:51

Play it Bob. I won't be fired

1:28:53

another another black person as well. So

1:28:55

can't really deny that one. Yep Yep.

1:28:59

Yep. I love it claiming

1:29:01

to be acting under divine guidance She

1:29:04

became a military leader who transcended gender

1:29:06

roles and gained recognition as a savior

1:29:08

of France Shakespeare

1:29:11

would have been good. Yeah Shakespeare would have been

1:29:13

good. Actually, I'm sure one of them like, okay

1:29:15

I'm sure we had sector. That'd be cool. This

1:29:17

has been The old man

1:29:19

of three new era draft Trey If

1:29:33

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