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500-500. That's

1:21

audible.com/JJ or text

1:23

JJ to 500-500. Welcome

1:28

to The Old Man of the Three with JJ, Redick and

1:30

Tommy Alter, brought to you by 342 Productions. This is episode

1:32

222, Ray Allen. And

1:37

Tommy, yes, I am wearing the exact

1:39

same outfit as I did last week because

1:42

I'm recording it this week. There's

1:45

going to be three people on the YouTube comments who

1:47

notice it and say something. I wear the same thing,

1:49

guys. I wear the same thing. Just address it. My

1:53

kids have spring break next week. So

1:55

I will not be in

1:58

studio to record. Anything

2:01

so we're just recording the intro and

2:03

our Draft King sports book ahead of

2:05

time Tommy I went over to Ray's

2:07

place down in Miami Last

2:09

week when I was calling the Heat game First

2:11

of all guys got a phenomenal setup shout out

2:14

to Ray man. You did it right? You got

2:16

a phenomenal setup He does it right like he's

2:18

like he makes good choices Yes, by the way

2:20

Ray Ray still looks like he could play in

2:22

the NBA. I'm pretty sure he could go out

2:24

there and And get a

2:27

few buckets We talk about a

2:29

ton of stuff you know as always

2:32

whenever we Interview anybody

2:34

you you you kind of go with what

2:36

the guest wants to talk about and Ray

2:38

is very Passionate about a bunch of things

2:41

and we had a really fun fun conversation about

2:46

The Celtics the Heat specific shots

2:48

shooting in general Youth

2:51

basketball just a

2:53

great conversation with Ray just a super

2:55

smart articulate Thoughtful guy and

2:59

as I told him and he knows this and

3:01

you'll see it 15 fucking different times in the

3:03

interview I

3:07

Had my favorite players growing up. Tell me I Obviously

3:11

started watching the NBA. I love

3:14

Duke That all happened at

3:16

the same time and the Bulls were winning. So

3:19

of course, I loved Michael Jordan You

3:21

know Michael Jordan to me in the

3:23

90s was the best player and he

3:25

was on the best team So, of course

3:27

I rooted for the Bulls as

3:29

Michael Jordan started to get older and

3:31

then he retired for the second time

3:36

Became kind of obsessed with Ray Allen this

3:39

is as I was entering high school and I

3:43

Legitimately wanted to be and play like Ray

3:45

Allen. He was like the guy that I

3:47

was like I want to model my game

3:49

after I Remember

3:52

there was like a scouting

3:54

report my junior senior year

3:56

You know in the end of rankings nationally, it

3:58

was like, you know Here's the

4:00

top five shooting guards in the country and I don't even

4:02

remember what number I was right probably two or three I

4:05

think we're shot my cancer was the number one guy, but

4:08

They had a comp for every player and

4:11

I remember one of those national rankings list

4:13

was like top Ray Allen I was like

4:15

fuck. Yes doing it right now,

4:17

of course. I didn't turn out to be Ray

4:19

Allen What you got you got pretty close? I

4:23

was a poor man's I was a parlors

4:25

approximation Pretty close the

4:27

nice thing is at least when people talk about

4:29

Ray Allen You're generally in the conversation at some

4:31

you your name comes up that you and Kyle

4:33

like your name comes. Yeah point around Yeah, I

4:37

approximated the the Boston Celtics version of Ray

4:39

Allen But of course as we we

4:41

get into it with Ray guys got

4:43

had so much game And

4:46

and sacrificed a little bit of that game

4:49

to make Boston work with

4:51

with Paul Pierce and kg The

4:54

other thing about Ray and I just want to say this before

4:56

we do our drafting sports book segment. The other thing about Ray

5:00

Ray was so good to me He

5:02

was so good to me and I tell the stories

5:04

of what that means With

5:07

Ray, but he was so good to me.

5:09

He was aware of How

5:11

I felt about him and how I viewed him and

5:13

he was always so good to me. I always appreciate Ray

5:17

Allen. All right, let's get to our draft King Sportsbook segment.

5:19

We're gonna talk about Coach

5:21

of the year something we haven't touched on

5:23

on Draft King Sportsbook right now Mark

5:25

Dagnall is the odds-on favorite to win

5:28

coach of the year Oklahoma

5:30

City of course has had a fantastic season. He's at

5:32

minus 310 as of today Chris

5:35

Finch second at plus 450 Joe

5:37

Missoula plus 700 and my

5:39

guy thank God He's starting to get some buzz

5:41

here in the conversation Jamal Mosley

5:43

who was an assistant coach on Dallas

5:46

when I was there and I only knew mows for

5:48

a couple months I still talk

5:50

to him quite frequently an awesome dude

5:52

having a great year as a coach

5:55

You know the thing with coaching and

5:57

again this this goes back to the

6:01

job security with coaching and the perception

6:03

of coaching, it's a lot of

6:05

it is based on expectations,

6:08

right? A team

6:11

that exceeds expectations, that

6:13

is viewed as a good coaching job.

6:16

I'm not saying that's right or wrong, I'm

6:18

just saying that's the general thought when we talk

6:20

about Coach Deere. I think that's fair. For

6:23

sure. For sure. In particular,

6:25

I saw the stat today. Last

6:28

time Orlando was 12 games above 500 was March

6:30

30th, 2012. Yeah, I

6:32

was there. You know it well. Magic

6:36

are fourth in defense, 12th in net. Last year they were

6:38

18th in defense, 24th in net. They've

6:40

obviously been playing great recently. She's

6:43

just thinking about it, man. That

6:45

was the lockout year. I

6:48

want to say we had the third

6:50

or fourth best record in the NBA

6:53

up to the point when Dwight Howard

6:55

left the team. We

6:59

didn't know he was leaving the team. He was literally at shoot

7:01

around. We were getting ready to play the Hawks. He was at

7:03

shoot around. We get to the arena

7:05

and he's not there. We find out

7:07

at some point either right before the game or during the

7:09

game that he had flown out to LA to

7:11

get back surgery. His back had been bothering

7:14

him. We knew he had a

7:16

back issue. He had

7:18

sat out a couple of practices. He tried playing through it.

7:20

He tried to tough it out. You can see it in

7:22

practice. I remember vividly, I was taking a rep off or

7:24

maybe my team wasn't

7:27

on or something, but

7:31

he tried to go up for a

7:33

dunk vertically. I want to

7:35

say it was against Malik Allen, but he tried to go up for

7:37

a dunk vertically. You could just

7:39

see he had no lift. I

7:42

was like, oh yeah, something wrong with Dwight.

7:45

Then he left, went

7:47

to LA, did the back surgery, wasn't with the team the

7:49

rest of the year. We just

7:51

fucking cratered and then lost to the Pacers

7:53

in the first round. Thanks for bringing up that memory.

7:56

I'm glad to do it. It's

7:58

amazing, but it's amazing. That's

8:00

that that this team you've talked about their

8:02

drafting and that you know since then everything's happened It's

8:04

amazing. My question about those four you named I wanted

8:06

to bring up one of the name after this but

8:10

With I mean diagonal in particular

8:12

like we knew what the Celtics were gonna

8:15

be This is no shade to Joe Missoula, you know, we've had

8:17

Joe Missoula He's been good, but you knew the Celtics are gonna

8:19

be really good going into the season How much does that matter

8:21

for teams like this making the jump versus

8:24

when you talk about expectations? Yeah You

8:26

know, it's interesting. I think if the Celtics

8:29

were You know 47 and

8:31

20 Joe

8:33

Missoula wouldn't be getting any buzz. The

8:36

fact is the Celtics are Literally

8:38

having one of the best regular season. I saw

8:40

this point differential the other the other day They've

8:43

got like the fifth best point differential in

8:46

NBA history for for the

8:48

regular season. So they're having an

8:51

all-time regular season Certainly

8:53

not the 2016 Warriors. I'm not putting them

8:55

that category But they're having one of the

8:57

better regular seasons of any team in NBA

8:59

history So I think that's why he's

9:01

still got buzz. There's there's still obviously

9:04

the expectation component to this I

9:06

think he's done a fan chat. Fantastic job. They've

9:08

been basically top three in

9:10

defense and offense all season super

9:13

creative Particularly with defensive

9:15

matchups and how he uses drew holiday He's

9:18

really leaned into You

9:22

know the curveball as he likes to

9:24

call it where can we exploit matchups?

9:26

How can we use porzingis the

9:28

best way possible that complements our other star

9:30

players? I got to give Joe Missoula a lot

9:32

of credit Dagnall in

9:36

particular I think and Mosley

9:38

have like exceeded the expectations Chris

9:41

Finch to me deserves a

9:43

lot of credit and I'll tell you

9:45

why because they make that trade for go bear and

9:49

I think everybody thought last year they were

9:51

gonna be awesome cat misses a

9:53

bunch of time they don't really ever find time

9:55

to meld together and Mike

9:59

Conley comes in And he kind of makes

10:01

the whole thing work. Chris

10:03

Pinch is probably facing a lot

10:06

of pressure internally and externally coming

10:08

into this year and he's

10:11

built the best defense in the NBA or a

10:13

top two defense in the NBA. Anthony

10:16

Edwards has grown as a player. He's

10:18

figured out how to make the cat

10:21

and Rudy go bear thing work. He's

10:23

given, he's empowered, empowered Nas

10:25

Reed. He's gotten Nikhil Alexander

10:28

Walker to buy in to

10:30

his role. Just a

10:32

phenomenal job from Chris Finch. Uh,

10:35

and then with Mose, I'll say like, this

10:38

is another example of exceeding expectations that

10:41

that team last year was five and 20. They

10:43

were basically a 500 team the rest of the

10:45

year and they just picked

10:47

up where they left off. There's sometimes

10:50

these massive, uh, you know, pops

10:52

and burst of growth. This

10:55

feels a lot like just incremental

10:57

growth. Franz Wagner, Paulo,

10:59

obviously taking another step forward. Um,

11:02

Jonathan Isaac has been tremendous defensively when

11:04

he's been on the court. Jalen Suggs

11:07

Cole, Anthony Biden into his role and

11:09

they're 40 and 28. And Wendell Carter has

11:11

missed a ton of time with injury. Yeah. Uh,

11:13

so, you know, all, all four of these coaches

11:15

have done a fantastic job this

11:18

season, all deserving. Can I throw in one

11:20

more name before we move on? Yes. JB.

11:22

Bickerstaff. Yeah. Deserves a ton of credit. Deserves

11:25

ton of credit. JB Bickerstaff currently sixth in

11:27

odds, uh, plus 9,000. Uh,

11:30

but JB obviously deserves a ton of

11:32

credit injuries. I mean, to

11:34

be where they are, they're one as of taping their

11:36

one game back of the bucks for the two seed

11:38

with them out of time. Those guys have missed is

11:40

pretty crazy. He, he absolutely deserves some credit. Uh,

11:43

all right. This has been our draft

11:45

King sports book segment. The NBA season is

11:47

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by the way we also have a

12:52

draft with him Leclair. That draft of

12:55

course Presenter are fire friends at New

12:57

Era. Ah let's get to our conversation

12:59

with Reyes. You.

13:02

Want to Mcdonalds or American? know? But.

13:06

It a think that that was probably

13:08

more a blessing and curse. And

13:10

you know, and even at a time

13:13

it was political because the the Mcdonalds

13:15

team at the time. Was.

13:17

Amiss. I've I'm I'm

13:19

staking of the missus and the coaches a

13:21

team. You. Know head. Players.

13:24

That he lights that you know he

13:26

put never somewhere always around my ranking.

13:29

In. The in their class that year. you know,

13:31

whenever we played a different camps it was always.

13:33

Those few guys there were always compare

13:36

will compare the southern him that when

13:38

it rang came out i was like.

13:40

Twenty. Five Eight, Or twenty five, Be.

13:43

He knows always. I was one guy off

13:45

the roster but. It was the

13:47

best thing in aware of me because when

13:50

you look back at ah Madonna's All American

13:52

teams a lot of names you don't remember.

13:54

you know because I think it almost as

13:56

he can be a curse form because those

13:58

kids think they are. Made it. You

14:00

know and every year at this year for my

14:02

team. I wrote all the

14:05

guys down. From. Last year. And

14:08

I showed them. Who. Made it

14:10

and Who did? You. Know

14:12

what they did in a freshman years

14:14

and in college? In and how just

14:16

because you'd scored as many point in

14:18

high school you gonna cause you gotta

14:20

start all over again and more point

14:22

that they are said congratulations nobody here

14:24

made it. That means you're on your

14:26

way. I. Love that!

14:29

I really do because I I think

14:31

the whole. Ecosystem.

14:33

Around. Rankings:

14:36

And. Awards in high

14:38

school. There's something about

14:41

the development. Of. A

14:43

in adolescence Mind. Were.

14:46

Too much, too soon can be a

14:49

curse. And I think. You.

14:51

Have Jamal Crawford talked about. The. Parents

14:53

at a you games a you

14:55

tournaments. Meeting basically look

14:58

themselves in the mere like it it is

15:00

a little bit on the parents. The.

15:02

Editors a little bit on the coaches because.

15:05

The kids are ill equipped to handle

15:07

thing I I protect our because all

15:09

time. The. The.

15:12

Best players in the N B A

15:14

Like there's Le Bron, obviously chosen at

15:16

a young age. Whatever. A

15:19

lot of them. Were. Second,

15:21

Round Picks a lot of I'm. Like

15:24

Jimmy Butler went the Zuko route. Like

15:26

it it does. It's a be. Dislike:

15:28

Singular thing: we're like, you have to be

15:31

a Mcdonald's All American. You have

15:33

to be an All American in college Like. The.

15:35

Journey to get to a long

15:37

and be a career is so

15:40

different for everybody. Think. About ah

15:42

reach effort right now know. He.

15:44

Was like a four star recruit, not a Mcdonalds

15:46

or American. I saw Kevin O'connor for

15:48

the ringer, had him in his latest mock

15:50

draft. Number One is a number one pick

15:52

the Spurs get. It does the pairing with

15:54

when Binyamin get he. He's been playing well.

15:56

He's a great year. You.

15:59

Know. The to your point when when you

16:01

look at a lot of a you teams

16:03

are in. a lot has been said about

16:05

the former. like kids have come from all

16:08

over to play only different teams and they're

16:10

not practice and during the we are all

16:12

these kids are looking around see what gear

16:14

they can get and lot of kids don't

16:16

actually want to practice. You know they want

16:18

to go to the former that they could

16:20

just show up and play games and affairs

16:22

or naval in it and the coaches know

16:24

that the parents and nameless oh they're trying

16:26

to entice every player that they can and

16:28

the one thing and know about. You know,

16:30

be a successful. No. Matter

16:33

what to do? Were you playing who

16:35

you are like? If. You have

16:37

a passion. For. Doing This.

16:39

He. Comes like people if you go on

16:41

record uses out there work hard every day

16:44

and you're in a playground and you know

16:46

bodies out there as you keep. Don't effort

16:48

a couple of days to to a week

16:50

to some weeks people going to start showing

16:53

up and plane because they see you out

16:55

the everyday. Not about who's not, there's about.

16:58

You showing up for yourself and

17:00

in read shepherd. You

17:03

know, whatever to ranking say. You.

17:06

Gotta now play all these kids at a reclassifying.

17:09

You. Still gotta play with the same guys when

17:11

you come to college. So if you'd want to

17:13

cheat the high school system and say I'm a

17:15

freshman now, but I should be a junior, Okay,

17:17

you gonna. Beat. Up on some

17:19

kids that younger than you but you still gotta go to college

17:21

and you go to college. Is. Can be

17:24

some Romeo, Eight, Nine, you And and. You.

17:26

Know looking at read separate them and I

17:28

gathered you know interest story like. I.

17:31

Was be recruited by Kentucky the time and

17:33

I was found to make the the the

17:35

difference between. Kentucky and

17:38

in Connecticut. My first

17:40

visit was Alabama. And

17:43

then it was to Kentucky. And. I had

17:45

Wake Forest and Nc State and all the schools,

17:47

but a narrow down to just these three. And

17:49

then when I took my visit or midnight madness

17:51

to Kentucky was amazing. And I was

17:54

like wow my head is kind of blown out the

17:56

waters and in. I. had committed to

17:58

alabama and in a d commit because I

18:00

was like, I need to see my other visits first and just

18:02

have some comparison. Kentucky, I'm

18:04

walking away like, wow, this place is amazing. And I

18:06

was like, I love this place too. And then I

18:08

was learning at a young age, like, just

18:11

go through the process and understand it, get the information and

18:13

just try and figure this thing out. And then when I

18:15

went to Connecticut, the writing

18:17

was on the wall for me as to

18:20

what place was better for me. And that was Connecticut

18:22

after coming back and understanding the environment. And then in

18:24

the same token, Reed

18:26

Shepherd's dad, Jeff Shepherd, signed

18:29

to go to Kentucky. And I was like, oh,

18:31

well, okay. Well, that definitely, and I've seen

18:34

Jeff and I played against Jeff a lot

18:36

throughout the summer in camps. And

18:40

the writing is on the wall. Sometimes

18:42

your path is laid out for you.

18:45

And it's not about where you get paid nowadays

18:47

with NIL or how

18:51

close to home you can be or where your

18:53

girlfriend goes to school or, you

18:55

know, all these things are short-term

18:58

decisions. They get you

19:00

for the next year to get you comfortable,

19:03

but how does that help your long-term success?

19:05

Like, are you setting yourself up for

19:08

eight to 20 years down the line? Because you

19:10

went somewhere with a great reputation that's going to

19:13

work you to death and it's going to make

19:15

you become your better self. Right now, we don't

19:17

know who we are at this

19:19

stage of our lives. Are we setting

19:21

ourselves up to be great

19:24

later on in life? And it requires going somewhere that they're

19:26

going to push you. And yes, it's going to be hard,

19:29

but you got to get comfortable with doing

19:31

hard. I've

19:34

always appreciated your perspective and

19:36

your mindset. There's

19:39

a little bit of relatable OCD,

19:41

I think, between the two of

19:43

us. Did you

19:45

have that mindset when you were a teenager?

19:47

And how much did your upbringing sort

19:50

of guide that mindset? Well,

19:53

I grew up in the military. So

19:55

you're traveling, you know, we travel

19:58

on average every three years. where

20:00

we got orders to travel. Like we, I

20:03

was born in Southern California, or Northern

20:05

California. And then we moved

20:07

to Germany. And then from Germany

20:09

to Oklahoma, Oklahoma

20:11

to England, England to Southern California,

20:13

and then from Southern California to

20:16

South Carolina. So I

20:18

learned early that people

20:20

do so many different things, such one of the

20:22

best lessons for me as a kid to

20:25

travel, because I'm not stuck in a

20:27

way. I always say the most

20:29

ignorant people and the ones that

20:31

are more likely to be racist. And this is just

20:33

my theory. So

20:36

don't hold me to it, because then everybody's always

20:38

arguing. You can say the sky's blue and they're

20:40

like, well, there's some clouds over there. And it's

20:42

gray on this side. But

20:44

my theory is that people who live

20:46

further away from airports are more likely

20:49

to be racist, to

20:51

be xenophobic, to be segregated.

20:55

But when you think when you move into a

20:57

city, you wanna be closer to information.

21:00

You wanna be closer to access to

21:02

public transportation, to

21:05

be able to travel, get in and out of town. So

21:08

if you're traveling more, you're around more

21:10

people that speak different languages. You're

21:12

eating different foods and you're doing all those things. So you

21:15

understand the globalization of the

21:17

world where you're doing business in

21:19

different time zones. And

21:21

so that's what I've received when I

21:23

was a kid. So now

21:25

I'm seeing these people that are, I

21:27

was probably 16 when

21:30

it was Operation Desert Shield. So

21:34

we're sitting, and my mom was,

21:36

she lived, or she worked, where

21:40

we were at Sharfer's Base. She

21:42

worked on the flight

21:44

line on the base. So what

21:46

she would do, she worked in

21:49

the kitchen where she was like

21:51

a short or a cook. My

21:55

dad was in the military and he

21:57

was a welder's technician. So he... fixed

22:00

planes and things, anything that needed to be

22:02

fixed. My dad could... Puts

22:04

it together. She would

22:06

see the pilots, they'd land, and

22:09

then they would come in, have lunch, they'd

22:11

eat and they'd take off again. So

22:13

when it was Operation Desert Shield, they'd

22:16

land, they would get ready to take off

22:18

and fly to the Middle East. They would

22:20

eat in her cafe and

22:22

then take off and land in

22:24

the desert before the army got

22:26

there and they had to provide air support. That was

22:28

Operation Desert Shield. I'm getting all this information when I'm

22:31

15, 16 years old. So

22:33

I'm learning about all this and how we're protecting our interests in

22:35

the Middle East. So I'm like understanding

22:37

foreign policy and how

22:40

soldiers move. And I used

22:42

to go to this base gym every Saturday and Sunday.

22:45

Runs were at 10 o'clock. You had to get there at 9.45. We'd

22:49

be waiting outside. You got to run into the gym and put your

22:51

name on the list. Because if you come at 10.30, now

22:55

the list is filled like, this

22:58

slots are five. So it's filled all the way down to 15,

23:00

29. So

23:02

if you get in at 21 and 22, by

23:04

the time they get there, the runs start getting watered down.

23:07

So I'm playing with a lot of grown men and that

23:09

was part of my experience. But when

23:11

Desert Shield happened and then Desert Storm

23:13

happened, when it went from Desert Shield

23:15

to Desert Storm, all these men got shipped out. So

23:18

now the runs started to be, nobody

23:20

was in the base gym because everybody was gone. So

23:24

that perspective helped me

23:26

understand, there's bigger causes

23:28

here at play. Life

23:30

isn't about me. Nobody cares about my

23:33

feelings. There are men that are pushing

23:35

out into the world. And we're not

23:37

even talking only about men going to

23:39

the Middle East. They're going to Asia.

23:43

They're going to Germany. Bases

23:45

all over the world because we're supporting those

23:48

institutions all around the world just to provide

23:50

support for whatever's going on in the Middle

23:52

East. So my

23:54

perspective was always so much different and greater

23:56

because I understood what it meant to be

23:58

a part of something. So. being

24:00

a part of a team, you assimilate so much

24:02

easier because you move in. I

24:04

have to do my job, but

24:07

in the same token, I have to

24:09

be able to understand

24:11

what it means to take a back

24:13

seat. You know, I got

24:16

to do my job so this person can be great. And if

24:18

he can be great, then he's going to pull me up with

24:20

him. And then vice versa, you know, the push

24:22

and pull of being on the team is so important. Parents

24:26

have to understand this is what

24:29

we're teaching them. As coaches, because I coach, you

24:31

know, in high school and then I help with

24:33

AAU. Well, we're teaching

24:35

them the parents can't teach them. Well,

24:38

we're teaching them their teachers can't teach them.

24:41

They're learning a different set of skills with

24:43

us, extracurricular activities. And

24:46

it's hard. It's not, it's not easy, you

24:49

know, and, and, and you have to be

24:51

able to do the things that we're asking

24:53

you to do. We're not

24:55

giving them homework like teachers are, but

24:58

we're saying, don't, don't just only play basketball.

25:00

When we practice, get some work in, get

25:02

a run in, you know,

25:05

jog during the street, get

25:07

some extra conditioning in, because remember the

25:09

great players do the stuff that

25:12

nobody else is willing to do. And they're working

25:14

when nobody else wants to work. A

25:17

lot there. I want to touch on

25:19

one thing that you just said, which is being part

25:21

of a team. I'm

25:23

curious, what do you miss

25:25

the most about being a player?

25:30

I don't know. There was just a rhythm to

25:34

one physically, you

25:36

know, your body, you know, you're, what you're working

25:38

on, you're paying attention. I didn't worry

25:40

about my weight ever because it stayed the same, but

25:43

trying to figure out how you can

25:45

get an edge, you know, getting in the weight

25:47

room and knowing what your body limitations are. And,

25:50

you know, it's, it's like that sea

25:52

biscuit mentality. Like we're always measuring ourselves

25:55

up against it's one thing to do

25:57

it against the competition, but your teammates.

26:00

You know watching what they're doing. Well, they're trying

26:02

to add something to your game and after practice.

26:04

I Think I had

26:06

this more when I played in Seattle because I

26:08

had younger guys and it was like an

26:10

experience where I had to Learn to be a leader but

26:13

after every practice it

26:16

was Typically

26:18

in Milwaukee, I would go and shoot and I always

26:20

have Michael red That

26:22

was always there with me shooting but in Seattle I

26:24

had like four or five to six guys because they

26:26

were younger and they want to learn So

26:29

it was always like a fun competition shooting drills and

26:31

everybody was trying to beat me Everybody wanted to be

26:34

in competition and you know, we had a younger team.

26:36

So we had players that were coming from overseas we

26:38

had players they were

26:40

trying to make the team and you know, sometimes

26:43

you come from the CBA at that time and

26:45

so they were just thirsty for you

26:48

know any any Information

26:51

that they could receive or learn a drill or

26:53

you know They wanted to be like

26:56

me and have a footing and Lee and

26:58

so it was always something going on where you

27:00

were Sharpening yourself because even when I

27:02

was pushing them they were pushing me because they

27:04

were trying to beat me and I didn't want to be beat and

27:07

so Being

27:09

in Boston and being in Miami It was the same

27:11

thing where you know in Boston everybody was typically able

27:14

to shoot and do their own thing and Miami was

27:16

interesting Because the brown always wanted

27:18

to smoke, you know, the brown was always like

27:20

come on Let's go shoot free throws and there

27:22

was a competition It was that back to that same.

27:24

Alright, what we doing today and that

27:26

that camaraderie

27:28

and that competition is what I miss because

27:30

you're always like We

27:33

just practice for two hours to three

27:36

hours But now the real dude

27:38

step up the real dudes come over to

27:40

the side. Sorry this let's

27:42

get the smoke in and and we'll get

27:44

a couple shots up and move around the Horn

27:47

and then the free throw competition starts, you know,

27:49

and you just over here and you know If

27:52

I'm shooting with LeBron if

27:55

he won two or three times throughout

27:57

the year You

27:59

know you're done the media's over there, walk

28:02

right over there with a little swag like, yeah,

28:05

you know, I just took him down

28:07

today, you know, and those are

28:09

the times that he won, but you know, probably

28:11

95% of the time he lost.

28:15

But because it was always

28:17

me that I would love

28:19

competing and sharpening my skills

28:23

against everybody. And that's

28:25

what made me always so focused. And

28:27

I'll tell you real quick, one of

28:29

my favorite shooting competitors

28:31

that I had that got me off to such

28:33

an incredible start when

28:37

I was in Milwaukee. And

28:39

he was a tough to beat. It

28:41

was like swishes left to right. I couldn't beat him. And

28:45

it's a name that people don't know. He played at

28:47

the University of Wisconsin Green Bay, but Jeff Nordgaard. Yes.

28:50

And you know, you guys look him up, but

28:53

Jeff came in, I think he was a second round

28:55

pick. And I don't know how long he lasted, but

28:57

every time we shot, it was like, this guy was

28:59

like money. And I

29:01

was struggling to try to keep

29:03

up with him every time. And so it came and

29:06

sent me off onto the right pathway to know

29:08

that, yeah, I can shoot, but am I the

29:11

best shooter out there? Am I the best worker?

29:13

Am I the best preparer in

29:15

situations, not in

29:17

game situations to apply? And so I took

29:20

that with me for the rest of my

29:22

career. So if

29:24

I'm hearing you correctly, what

29:26

you miss the most is

29:30

this pursuit of

29:32

getting better on the margins. It's

29:34

that constant pursuit of getting

29:37

better. And then the team part

29:39

is interesting to me because you

29:41

did mention, I think camaraderie. I think

29:44

for me, that's probably the thing I

29:46

missed the most. It's

29:48

the little competitions you have. Like

29:50

I miss competing. I miss that

29:53

part of it, the wins, the

29:55

losses, the feelings you get, the

29:57

highs. I sometimes I miss the

29:59

lows. And cause then you know, you

30:01

got to get up the next day and go back

30:03

at it, right? But it's those little

30:05

competitions. It's the shooting competitions, the cards

30:08

on the plane, whatever it may be. Maybe

30:10

you're on the road, you go bowling, cornhole

30:12

now, whatever, whatever it may be. It's

30:14

interesting. I, I had you on the

30:17

ringer podcast. I don't know. This was

30:20

probably five years ago. We had a very

30:22

short conversation. You had a million

30:25

different media obligations. Yeah, that was my book came out.

30:27

Your book came out. Uh, and I

30:29

mentioned to you this, this to you then, uh, but

30:32

it's interesting because you, you bring up that

30:34

Seattle group and Richard Lewis

30:37

told me, he's like, I learned how to be a pro

30:40

from Ray Allen. And

30:43

I learned how to be a pro from Richard

30:45

Lewis when he got to Orlando. I

30:48

vividly remember right after

30:50

he signed, cause I didn't go anywhere in the off season when I

30:53

played in Orlando, I was there year round. So I would be at

30:55

the training facility in the summer, every day. It's

30:57

like the day he signed his

30:59

deal, right? He's just signed the

31:01

biggest contract in NBA history. He

31:04

goes out and he gets a lather for an hour and a half on

31:06

the court. I'm watching him. We

31:08

come in September after labor day, whole team comes

31:10

in first guy on the court, doing

31:12

his individual work. We practice for a

31:15

little bit. He goes back at it. And

31:17

I saw that, that whole first season. I'm

31:20

like, Oh, I get it now. And

31:22

he credits you. I credit him. So in some

31:24

ways I learned how to be a pro from you. But

31:27

that's the, that's the ladder effect

31:30

that it creates because we

31:32

have a responsibility to

31:34

grow the game and the league. And you

31:37

know, there's something fascinating about being a pioneer in

31:39

the game. And I'm not saying that I'm a

31:41

pioneer, but just in life, cause you

31:43

think about skyscrapers, bridges,

31:46

airplanes, man has to be willing

31:48

to plant a tree who shade he'll never sit under. You

31:51

have to have that, that understanding. You may

31:53

not get anything from this, but you're pushing

31:55

the agenda. But what we see today

31:57

is we see a lot of people that get to

31:59

positions. of power that then now tried

32:01

to shut the gate. So nobody

32:03

else could come through. I don't want to teach

32:06

anybody else. I don't want to show how I got here.

32:09

I want to keep all this and hoard it to

32:11

what to myself and people around me. No, you have

32:13

to push it out. Damon

32:17

Wilkins is also another guy in Seattle

32:21

because I would be at the gym

32:23

and Richard, he

32:25

didn't understand it when I first got

32:28

there. I noticed it was interesting because

32:30

they all watched me. They

32:32

were watching me how I moved to the training room, they watched

32:34

how I talked. Then

32:37

I would get to the gym and then I would

32:39

already be shooting. They would say stuff like, you already

32:41

shot? I was like,

32:43

yeah, I've been done. I get off the court. I've been done

32:46

for about 45 minutes. I'm sitting in the locker room ready to

32:48

go. I'm the highest paid

32:50

player on the team and a guy that came in

32:52

for Gary Payton. So they're like, there's

32:55

something to this. You already shot and then they're watching

32:57

me. Then Richard, he

32:59

started coming in and we

33:01

had a conversation on the bus one time and he says,

33:03

man, look, I'm trying to get paid

33:05

how you get paid. So he would come

33:07

in and he started watching me go to my routine. Then

33:10

back of the bus, we would talk about it. We would

33:12

talk about, I told him why I do what I do, what

33:15

I'm working on, what I'm trying to improve

33:17

on, and what I'm trying to stay consistent

33:19

with and why I do it as

33:22

I'm moving throughout the court. Then

33:25

sure enough, I would get

33:27

there. Then you would see

33:29

Richard, I would be in the locker room getting

33:32

dressed and I'd walk out and you see Richard come

33:34

down the hallway. So the one thing he

33:36

always did was he never tried to step on my

33:38

time because he respected it. It was

33:41

time. So now my

33:43

consistency gave him consistency. So he

33:45

knew now, okay, he's here

33:47

at this time. Let me carve out the space for my time.

33:50

So the thing about great teammates and

33:52

great players is, when

33:55

you build rhythm and consistency to who you are,

33:57

this is life too. If you show up every

33:59

day. for 10 years doing a job. You

34:01

don't have to do everything

34:04

at this level. You just do that same

34:06

thing simply, every single day for 10

34:08

years. And now all of a sudden you

34:10

become the most valued employee, irreplaceable,

34:13

and somebody who is of the utmost importance and

34:15

value to what you're doing. And that's the guy

34:18

that ends up getting a raise and

34:20

being the stalwart of

34:23

the business. And

34:26

that's what I say. Anything that I've done in

34:28

my career, I've just been

34:30

able to be available. I've outlasted

34:32

most people. So longevity is super important,

34:34

but you gotta love doing it and

34:36

you gotta love the process of doing

34:38

it. And that is ultimately why

34:40

Rashard got that contract. And again,

34:43

back to the original point, we

34:46

put it out there and I

34:48

welcomed everybody. You know, let's

34:50

give shots up, let's work. Antonio Daniels came to

34:52

the team. And to knock on

34:54

Antonio Daniels was, he couldn't shoot. He

34:57

was the fourth pick, I think in 2000 or 98. And

35:02

they said he couldn't shoot. He gets

35:04

drafted. And then, GM, we talked

35:06

about him and he said,

35:08

what do you think? I said, he'll be

35:11

great for us. We need more athleticism.

35:13

We need more of

35:15

a, he was, at the time

35:17

we were still young, but more of a veteran presence. I

35:19

was like, we're gonna work with him. He's gonna see

35:21

us in the gym. As long as he has that attitude

35:24

and mentality to come into work, he'll be fine. And sure

35:26

enough, he came into the gym, we're shooting

35:28

and then he'd ask questions. And

35:30

then he started moving as we moved.

35:33

And that became contagious. And

35:35

then ultimately we take San Antonio to six games

35:37

and I think it was 2005. And

35:43

we lose and they won the championship that year, but

35:45

we had a really good team. And that was all

35:47

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You bring up us guys watch new

37:53

work out of ass. I remember after

37:55

I left the Clippers and those two

37:57

years and silly. And. My.

37:59

to years in New Orleans. I

38:02

felt that. Yeah. Yeah. I was, I

38:04

was older then. I was older then. But I

38:06

had a bunch of young guys that I was

38:08

trying to help. And there

38:11

were certain guys, Landry Shamet, Nikhil Alexander Walker,

38:14

Frank Jackson, like I would grab them. We'd do

38:16

our shooting together. But they knew

38:18

like that my time was like

38:20

my time. And they would

38:22

just, they would watch. And I always found

38:24

that fascinating. It was, it was cool. You

38:27

are like famous for getting to

38:30

the gym on a game day super

38:32

early. And I, and

38:34

I, I kind of did the opposite where

38:36

my, my routine was sacred,

38:38

similar to yours. I

38:41

would shoot, I would get my body

38:43

loose at 90 on the clock. I

38:46

would start in the training, training room. Then I

38:48

go to the weight room, do all my activations

38:50

and I do my ball handling. And like I

38:53

had a very specific pregame shooting routine. And I

38:55

like to finish if the meeting was

38:57

at 35 in the locker room, I'd

39:00

like to finish at like 35 minutes

39:02

and 30 seconds and run right in. I

39:04

didn't like shooting and then

39:06

cooling down. I wanted to like build up. Why

39:08

did you shoot so early? What was the reason

39:10

behind that? So when I started in Milwaukee, um,

39:16

it got, it was a point where I didn't have

39:18

a routine and I was just, you know, they

39:21

call two buses and then the first bus shows

39:23

up. And as a rookie, I had to be

39:25

on the first bus, obviously had no routine whatsoever.

39:27

So I go on the court, everybody else on

39:29

the court, and I'm over here just throwing the

39:31

ball up. I don't know what I'm doing. I'm

39:35

shooting shots and bigs are down on the post,

39:37

working with the coach, throwing hook shots. And every

39:39

time I shoot it, you

39:41

know how it goes. This, this guy's knocking the ball

39:43

out and I'm like, God, this too. And,

39:46

and after a while when I'm working on my

39:48

stuff, you know, I'm goofy and, you know, looking

39:50

up in the stands and you're out there with

39:53

fans on the floor, you know,

39:55

yelling and trying to get out of grass. And I was

39:57

like, I have to figure out something. So Chris Ford, you

39:59

know, rest in peace, he was

40:01

my coach my rookie

40:03

year, pulls me

40:05

in, he says, Rook. And

40:08

he didn't particularly like younger players. He was

40:10

a veteran coach. He won championships in Boston.

40:13

He played with Larry Bird, coach Larry Bird. Chris

40:16

Ford made the first three point shot in NBA history.

40:18

Yes, he did. And so,

40:20

but he never liked three. That's the

40:22

interesting thing. He used to always tell

40:24

me not to settle. That's why I was like,

40:27

whenever I got to the point where I was became the leader

40:29

in threes, I was like, I don't know how that happened. Cause

40:32

that is not anything that I set

40:34

out to do. It just,

40:37

again, you stay around long

40:39

enough. They're going to start dropping bags

40:41

of gold somewhere around you because you've done

40:43

some pretty significant things. But

40:46

he told me, you have to have

40:48

a routine. You just are aimless. And he's watching

40:50

me and I didn't know. Other coaches

40:52

are watching me. So it

40:55

started with Michael Curry and

40:58

Elliot Perry. So we started, you

41:00

know, when those guys came to Milwaukee, we started,

41:02

we had like our little

41:04

crew where we would, we'd come out

41:06

in this court and we would shoot our shots. And

41:08

then we had a rebound and we had a passer.

41:11

That was the days when we didn't have coaches that

41:14

will come out and work you out. And you know,

41:16

you know, they, they just weren't nine player development coaches.

41:18

Yeah, no, no, no, no. Definitely. I

41:20

see them now. There's like so many, we

41:23

didn't really have weight rooms. You know, the

41:25

weight, the strength and condition that

41:27

we did our trainers did it. So you were a

41:30

trainer that taped ankles and he put, he

41:32

had like a formula. And then

41:34

even washing our clothes, we had to put it in

41:36

this little laundry bag. And then if

41:38

the trainer didn't do it, you had to take it home with you

41:40

and wash your own. So it was so

41:42

much that we didn't do back then. And I know everybody's

41:45

like, wow, they did that. Yeah. I was like, yeah, we

41:47

we've come a long way. We

41:49

even had to walk to the

41:51

airport in Milwaukee, park in

41:53

the parking garage, walk through the airport,

41:55

go through security, walk to

41:57

your gate. And then the plane was our

41:59

plane. But the year before it

42:01

was commercial like you flew with everybody else

42:03

Well, you you didn't go to the private

42:05

hangers what you're saying You went to the

42:08

commercial airport general Mitchell or whatever. It's called

42:10

mr. International. We walked you parking

42:12

the park That's why you couldn't work

42:14

You couldn't like the luxury of just driving up and

42:16

it's might take your cars and they park it for

42:18

you There was none of that, you know

42:20

when I first got to leave so you had to find

42:22

a parking spot So a lot of times if you put

42:24

in Milwaukee, you didn't have to worry about traffic, but sometimes

42:28

Parking a lot was packed and you had to

42:30

walk from my way over there and you know

42:32

come through the security So and and obviously 9-11

42:34

hadn't happened yet. So you could

42:37

it wasn't as strenuous coming through the

42:39

airport but it was it

42:41

was a Constraint

42:44

that you had to deal with and so These

42:47

these things and how we built

42:50

into who we become who we

42:52

were at At a young

42:54

age in our careers. It helped us have

42:56

appreciation you know for

42:59

everything that we've come to know and

43:01

learn about the league and so

43:03

as I'm Building

43:05

who I am we used to

43:07

so we we would not take the first bus So

43:11

Mike myself we would get up in the morning

43:13

ghost bus the girl would you guys

43:15

call it the ghost we just cut taxi

43:19

We pay for it we rotate who paid the

43:21

taxi we would we got for morning have breakfast

43:23

rotate who paid for breakfast Those

43:26

guys were good because you know our trainer

43:28

used to always put fruits in our room

43:30

So they would never use the minibar So

43:33

every time Mike would come to the the

43:36

bus or the taxi, you know for

43:38

shoot around in the morning He'd have it is

43:40

like man. I can't mess with that. No

43:42

many bars too much money. So it gave me a

43:45

perspective I was like don't mess with

43:47

a minibar many bars was gonna get you so

43:50

I learned how to get a routine up with those

43:52

guys Early get my shots

43:54

up and to move around and then they got traded

43:56

away and then for a while I was by myself

43:58

and I started creating my. Teen. Without.

44:01

A rebounder. Because. Coaches weren't

44:03

there early enough and enough to wow. Then we

44:06

start again. Dakota staff and he started breeding guys

44:08

in In In Coaches made sure there was some

44:10

I out there. so with that then I had

44:12

a coat with me so I'll go to my

44:14

routine you know. And I had a rebounder and

44:17

inland sounds of most part I had such as

44:19

a rhythm. That. That coats would just

44:21

rebounds and in it. Didn't he get so

44:23

consistent with what I was gonna do? it?

44:25

It. It. Was my purpose. And.

44:28

In this is a cyber I'm playing

44:31

golf. In Mexico would

44:33

a couple of friends and I'm standing over his

44:35

Weds shot. I'm about

44:37

nine years historic, resorted as a good

44:39

alec play his. I'm about ninety yards

44:41

in and I'm sitting here. There's no

44:43

water, is nothing in the flag as

44:45

thin right front of another. Oh God.

44:48

I don't even know where this ball's gonna go. And.

44:50

So. I

44:53

thought about us a while. This is actually what I

44:55

do. a basketball. I don't

44:57

I used to go to raise it hit my

44:59

drivers and seven times I am ready to this

45:02

go and I realize I don't practice the south's.

45:04

I don't practice the different nuances of

45:07

golf. To. Didn't expect to be good

45:09

at. It you. Know I'm like just if

45:11

I go fireball great The like advances.

45:14

Sauce. Are saying I need to start

45:16

practicing. These. Websites I can get

45:18

closer to the green on the day when I need

45:20

to do and us that's what I do basketball am

45:22

I will come down the floor and make a move.

45:25

Where. I don't even know what's

45:27

gonna happen Drew between like hundreds of across the

45:29

globe and air just kind of figured out cigarette

45:31

out as I'm up there. And so

45:33

I saved from amazon for on a golf

45:35

course not play basketball I'm going to work.

45:38

Every single contingency with my game

45:40

on every angle, every court, Tired.

45:44

So. I started running. From.

45:48

The. Food Court all the way into my three because that's

45:50

what happens in a game. So. You you

45:52

figure out guys running for this and they come

45:54

in this you to three the site your accede

45:56

suit the sad that you know practice. You.

45:58

Know full court run. The. D.

46:03

Spread. Their. Seven seconds and

46:05

o'clock and you gotta get to your lifts. And.

46:07

You got to suit their ball and there's a seven footer

46:10

run out as you. What? Is your got lived

46:12

on look like get a practice that. That

46:14

right there embassy, some imo organisms see some

46:16

I should like that, my this kid right

46:18

here, he gabi problems because he gets. But.

46:21

I will. I walk in the gym a lot. including.

46:23

Kids I codes I want some should jump that high.

46:26

When. We were going to shooting drills and

46:28

able to game starts and we do practice

46:30

You seems apparent said now you miss they

46:33

should ballroom because now. You sooner

46:35

different release point. And. Saw figure

46:37

that out. Because. It has a

46:39

pretty good coaches There was me and in

46:41

spoke to me and and you know just

46:43

salads me to stay consistent. In my

46:45

jump and that's why when I got zoom

46:47

I jumped the same way every time At

46:49

stray from habits of my percentages have a

46:51

chance of being higher. Then. The

46:54

me saying you know I'll figure it out

46:56

as I go because the switch turned to

46:59

switch on. You. See a lot a

47:01

great player that can play at a high level but they can't

47:03

keep it consists. I'm always

47:05

jealous. I've told Luca this. there's a

47:07

the Mars the same way. like I

47:10

watch them warm up. And.

47:12

I'm like man, I wish I could

47:14

warm up at that pace. Yeah, my

47:16

sister for a deferred. It's just even

47:18

like Demar when he does his pregame,

47:20

he's shooting like a centrally flat footed

47:22

mideast. And then he gets in

47:24

the game and is elevating over people and it's

47:26

like and Luca has his own pace to his

47:28

work out and says different and I, I'd never

47:30

had that luxury. I. Am

47:32

curious about your. Ah,

47:35

specifically like Boston

47:37

Miami? Ah I'm I'm I

47:39

get into a young Ray Allen and second cause

47:41

I love the highlight montage is that pop up

47:43

on social media. Two

47:46

or three times a year of you don't come on people. better.

47:48

Than the catch and shoot version of

47:50

Ray Allen. There's just not

47:52

a lotta guys that. Play

47:54

that way. What?

47:57

Was required. To

47:59

play that way. You brought up the full

48:01

court sprints going

48:03

into a three. What did a workout,

48:05

let's say in the off season, look like for

48:07

you? Did you just run? Did

48:10

you do sprints or were your basketball workouts all

48:12

sprints? You know what I mean by that? Yeah.

48:16

No, because it was half

48:19

court stuff. Like you started off

48:21

drills and have little drills where

48:24

you run from underneath the basket, from

48:27

the sideline and you kind of run

48:29

across the baseline and you open up, slow

48:31

down, slow down and sprint and

48:33

curl around the top and you, you

48:35

know, inside foot, shot, elevate.

48:38

And then you back pedal to the other side and you come back and do

48:40

the other side. You know,

48:42

and if there's a progression, you do two of those,

48:44

you do four of those. And then once you do

48:46

two, then you sprint down to the other side and

48:49

you come into baseline, you do the same thing. But you

48:51

get used to working at

48:53

a high pace, but in small spaces,

48:56

you know, so that's what happens in the

48:58

games. Like train yourself how to run and

49:01

be locked in into the conditioning of it,

49:03

but then you got to slow down and

49:05

then sprint again. So the

49:08

conditioning has to be there on a high level.

49:10

That's why I started cycling. That's why I've always

49:12

been a cross country runner. So I would run

49:15

to get cross training to

49:17

put my body under stress in different

49:19

circumstances, you know, so I can last,

49:22

you know, so, you know, it's one thing

49:24

quick sprints, but you know,

49:26

I don't go to the bench during the timeout,

49:30

just panting, you know, trying to catch my

49:32

breath because I've already

49:34

pushed past what this

49:36

game might may present me. And

49:39

then can I get to that speed

49:41

in that lift without being tired and

49:43

can I recover? I

49:45

think the whole point is to

49:48

be able to recover quicker than

49:50

everybody else out on the floor. So when you can

49:53

recover quicker, now

49:56

you can do more. Now you can

49:58

keep running off screens and you can get... get to

50:00

a spot and then you could pump thing and you get to the hole

50:02

and you can jump in there and you can dunk on somebody, you can

50:04

finish the layup because now you have, you don't

50:06

feel that fatigue appear

50:08

in your body because some people can't do it. Don't have

50:11

a second jump. You know, some people get

50:13

down to the paint and I see it a lot

50:15

in college basketball, men and women,

50:17

they get to the paint, they made a move and now

50:19

there's nothing left. You know, they put

50:21

a layup in, but they didn't explode up. That's

50:23

just training. That's just pushing your body to

50:26

a level past your

50:28

comfort zone and past what your coaches might present

50:30

for you. And so it does

50:32

require, you know, you figure working

50:35

on your quads, but that's what cycling, you know,

50:37

why cycling is good for you. You can't, you

50:39

can't substitute it. So you got to run on the

50:41

streets because your legs need to fill the, the, your

50:44

muscles, you know, accepting

50:46

the, the, the stabilization,

50:50

you know, every time you hit the ground. And

50:53

then doing long distance runs where you could

50:55

sustain over a long period of time. But

50:58

in the same token, we used to do

51:00

sprints on the field, you know, before the

51:02

season started, we would do ladders, you

51:04

know, as training just to work on

51:07

sprints and sustain that for

51:09

long periods of time. I use, I used to

51:12

probably like with five years to go on my

51:14

career, just around the time I lived in New

51:16

York. So maybe last four years in every off

51:18

season. Cause I'd always done

51:20

sprints and then I did sprints within the workout

51:22

in my shooting drills. Right. And then

51:24

I started doing, uh, like baseline

51:27

level runs. So I'd try, I'd, I'd have a heart

51:29

rate monitor on and I'd try to get to like

51:31

one 25 to one 35 for like 15 straight minutes,

51:37

just to have like a baseline of

51:39

VO two, right. And then you mix in, you

51:41

know, some treadmill sprints or whatever it may

51:43

be all monitored. All right. Let's try to get it up

51:45

to one 80. It's like mixing in that very, my favorite

51:48

drill, by the way, I started doing this right when I

51:50

started playing for the Clippers in the off season, it

51:52

was 12 shots and each

51:54

shot was different and each version of the

51:57

drill was a little different, but to me

51:59

it's simulated. how I played

52:01

and It

52:03

was a perfect training like a tool for me.

52:05

So it would look like this like I'd

52:08

start a right white right high quadrant

52:11

I'd get a swing pass one

52:14

dribble step up three immediate sprint

52:16

to the right corner catch and shoot three

52:18

I Kind of jog along the baseline

52:20

to your point Sprint to the

52:22

corner be sideshot fake side step three and

52:25

then I'd have another screener or cone Sprint

52:28

off a wide pin down and I'd either catch

52:30

and shoot or I turned the corner get to

52:32

my float game There's four shots, right?

52:35

Then I'd go right back to the white right high

52:37

quadrant do it again And I had

52:39

to make nine out of twelve right and if

52:41

I got not what to if I got nine

52:43

out of two It's tough. It's all different shots.

52:45

Like that's the thing that practice very Variability for

52:48

me was a huge thing. I

52:50

didn't take especially later on in my like I

52:52

stopped shooting a lot of spot threes Cuz

52:54

I'm like, I don't shoot spot three. Oh, you

52:56

know very rarely I'm always on

52:58

the move and so let's say I got nine out

53:00

of twelve I got to switch sides if I didn't

53:03

get nine out of twelve I do

53:05

that shit again and that's the and all of a sudden

53:07

you start going a couple rounds eight for twelve by the

53:09

end of It your fatigue. That's how I built up. Yeah,

53:11

that's the imposed pressure. You have to put on your city

53:14

coaches Can't put it on you. Yes, you had to put

53:16

on yourself, but to that point It

53:18

was fascinating too when you played in in LA

53:20

you actually played the way I played in Boston

53:22

because you had docked Oh, yeah, it was Doc's

53:25

free agent pitch to me. Yeah, he's like you've

53:27

been used the wrong way in Orlando Mm-hmm. I

53:29

want you to play like Ray Allen and I was like say

53:32

no more. Yeah Yeah,

53:35

and that and that was because I watched and

53:37

I was like, this is all the stuff you

53:39

you made the offense go Yeah, you know because

53:42

as much as you're

53:44

moving You're moving

53:46

in a way that

53:49

The team shifts we you know you and

53:52

I more than anybody I think Kyle Korver

53:54

was a little had a little bit of

53:56

it But

53:59

we were we were And this

54:01

is, you know,

54:03

not to compare us to, like Shaq when

54:05

I played, he was such a demander of

54:08

a double team and sometimes a triple team and

54:10

the defense really shifted. When

54:12

we shot the ball, we're on the floor, we

54:15

moved, the defense shifted. You know, a lot of

54:17

people don't understand that movement, how

54:20

much it had to shift. Because

54:22

you're moving to help and

54:24

then everybody else has to shift into that help.

54:27

And when we get open, everybody's open. You

54:30

know, and that right there was why the work

54:33

for us, we did the heavy lifting. You

54:35

know, we're the ones that just that little bit

54:37

of movement, we get open there, everybody's like,

54:40

shit. And then bam, shot.

54:42

And then even when we don't want to take the

54:44

shot, you swing it real quick and then now the

54:46

shift happens, they could beat that shift. It's constant awareness.

54:49

Like, because I mean, I had to guard you in

54:51

two playoff series. It's just constant

54:53

awareness. And that takes its

54:55

toll on me, right? Having

54:58

to chase you and it takes its toll

55:00

on the defense. Because it's

55:02

your point. It's like you're coming off

55:04

a stagger screen on the baseline. I'm

55:07

chasing and big

55:09

baby setting the screen and KG setting the screen

55:11

or perc setting the screen. And

55:13

you're already behind. His man is

55:15

now engaged. The guard as you

55:17

came off the curl, he's engaged.

55:19

You got options now. It's

55:22

just that shifting defense. I won't go back

55:24

to the thing about the nine for 12

55:26

because I trained some guys this

55:28

summer, a couple of NBA

55:31

guys this summer. And

55:33

I didn't really, I'd never paid you well. I

55:35

was free. I was free, man. I'm not, I'm

55:38

not a keen man. It

55:40

was free. It's free game, man. No, but

55:42

I, it was interesting because I like I'm

55:44

putting them through these workouts and

55:48

I realized like it was all

55:50

shit that I did. And I built it around, you

55:52

know, like tied Jerome, for instance, we he's with the

55:54

Cavs. Like he's more of an on ball guy. So

55:56

I built his workout around his skillset. Right. sort

56:00

of concepts and same sort of pace. Um,

56:03

and I realized that everything that I

56:05

did as a player in a workout

56:07

had consequences and it,

56:09

you, you, you brought up like the building in

56:11

the pressure. Right. So like, I've

56:14

already simulated that six

56:16

days a week, all

56:19

summer long for years. Which

56:21

leads me to something you said to me, uh,

56:24

it had incredible meaning. First of all, there was two things

56:26

that you did for me in my career that were incredible.

56:29

Number one, I brought up the, uh, the

56:31

Oh nine playoff series. No,

56:34

the Oh nine. It wouldn't, um, Celtics

56:37

were like, when we beat you guys, you guys didn't

56:39

have KJ out, you know, find admitted that you guys

56:41

didn't have KJ. I

56:44

basically, you were coming off of a

56:46

Chicago series where you

56:48

averaged like 24 game, you had a

56:50

51 point game in game six, you shot

56:52

like 47% from three. And

56:54

so Stan going into that series was like,

56:56

you have zero help responsibilities. So if you

56:58

guys run a strong side pick

57:01

and roll where you're in the corner and Rondo's

57:03

coming middle and perk is rolling,

57:05

you have no help responsibilities. You do

57:07

not, you are never required to tag.

57:10

So my job was just to chase you and

57:12

you didn't shoot well that series. And

57:16

I remember we, we win in the

57:18

garden in game seven. And

57:21

it was an important moment for me. You

57:23

did two things. You came over to me and

57:26

acknowledged that I guarded you well. And

57:29

then you went to the press conference. You did something which not a

57:31

lot of guys will do. And that's you

57:34

acknowledged that I did a good job. It

57:36

gave me such confidence. It was like that

57:38

whole playoff run was the turning point in

57:40

my career. And that moment for me was

57:43

massive. I just want you to know that the

57:45

second thing was when I was in Milwaukee. And

57:48

you were in Miami, we played you guys in the first

57:51

round. And I know it happened

57:53

in Milwaukee, so it had to have been game three or

57:55

four. And you came up to me during

57:57

a free throw or coming out of the timeout. And

58:00

you said to me, you said

58:02

something along the lines of, I

58:05

see it on your face. I see it in your

58:07

body language. You're not yourself. You talked about it a

58:09

little bit ago. You said being

58:12

the most valuable employee is being the

58:14

same guy consistently over and over. And

58:16

in a way I had lost myself

58:19

and I, and I was like, fuck,

58:21

he's right. Did you ever lose yourself by the

58:23

way? Do you ever feel that you know what

58:25

I'm talking about? Yeah. Uh, so

58:27

I think Skyles was your coach. No,

58:30

he had gotten fired or he had mutually parted

58:32

ways in January, about a month before I got

58:34

there. Who was coaching there? Uh, Jim

58:36

Boylan. Okay. Not the Chicago Bulls, Jim

58:38

Boylan, the older one that was with

58:40

T. Lou and she and Cleveland. So

58:45

the thing is, is that

58:48

there's no point where you're like,

58:50

we're competing against each other. Like

58:52

I can pay homage to greatness. You

58:54

know, I see people working and I

58:56

see people who love it. Those

58:59

are the people who I want to support, you know,

59:01

even doing an interview, uh,

59:04

to have a conversation with media, this is

59:06

not a scolding session is

59:08

not, you know, it's just, it's

59:11

accountability in a good way. A lot of times

59:13

speaking to the media is therapy. So to be

59:15

able to do that, we have this responsibility, not

59:18

only to share the game, to speak

59:20

the game, to, to, uh,

59:23

communicate the game. You know, every time I'm before

59:25

to ask us a question, like,

59:27

oh, sometimes it may be a dumb question.

59:29

Just say, can you please reward that question?

59:31

I'm not understanding what you're asking me. Um,

59:35

but then even the, the,

59:37

the communication with each other,

59:39

like I don't

59:41

have beef with another guy in the league.

59:44

He's getting paid just like I am. And

59:47

he's trying to win and do all

59:49

these things. And I know there's a struggle for all of us,

59:52

but if you pull back the curtain,

59:55

there's a little kid in there that's

59:57

so excited about playing his game. and

1:00:00

just remember who he loved and

1:00:03

how he wanted to get to this moment he's at. So

1:00:06

I had to always remember, play for him. You

1:00:10

could see that in each kid, you

1:00:12

know, slash player,

1:00:15

like who they were when they first came, especially if they

1:00:17

were younger when they came in the game. I was like,

1:00:19

I remembered you at Duke and, you know, the

1:00:22

energy and it's like, that's why I

1:00:24

said that and I seen that because you

1:00:27

wanted to win and you were in such a

1:00:29

tough situation at the time and I

1:00:31

had been there. You know, I had

1:00:33

been there in places where I

1:00:36

was the victim, I was the

1:00:38

villain, I was the

1:00:40

one that was being counted out and

1:00:43

I just wanted to

1:00:46

remind you that this is gonna

1:00:48

pass. But in this

1:00:50

process, don't lose yourself

1:00:53

because you still have to, you're preparing

1:00:55

yourself to be something great for somebody

1:00:57

down the line. And I

1:01:00

saw it firsthand because as much as I

1:01:02

lost in Seattle and

1:01:04

as much as I wanted to stay there when I got traded to

1:01:06

Boston in 2007, there

1:01:10

was something greater in store for me and

1:01:12

it was because I didn't lose myself. It was

1:01:15

because I was sitting there just waiting to be

1:01:17

served up on a platter to

1:01:19

something great that I can take myself over top

1:01:21

and it happened to be, you know,

1:01:23

playing in Boston, it was such the most

1:01:25

amazing situation and then going to Miami and

1:01:28

then being in even equally

1:01:31

great situation to be able to put ourselves in

1:01:33

a chance to win and I was so happy

1:01:36

for you when you went to Philly because

1:01:38

now you're in that position where now you're

1:01:40

seeing success consistently regardless of what

1:01:42

happened at the end of the year. Now

1:01:44

you're in a situation where you're

1:01:46

prime time, you know,

1:01:49

and that's the thing I think people

1:01:51

forget with success is like, you

1:01:54

can't become downtrodden or beat

1:01:57

up by the media. Remember

1:01:59

where you are. You know, because

1:02:02

the guys that make it to the NBA have

1:02:04

such a, they can have such a mentality of

1:02:07

woe with me, you know, my

1:02:09

life is the worst. Uh, uh,

1:02:12

I, I, I need to do that. And then you

1:02:14

make the all star team and

1:02:17

then everybody's like, Oh, well, I'm trying to do this.

1:02:20

And I, you know, I need to work. Then you make

1:02:22

the Olympic team that no matter what levels you ascend to,

1:02:24

you know, being drafted is,

1:02:26

is, is a great sign of success,

1:02:29

but you still, it doesn't mean you,

1:02:31

you made it, but you still have to

1:02:33

continue to work to get better. And

1:02:35

if you ever think that you're great, that's the

1:02:38

minute and you slide. And that

1:02:40

was always for me. Somebody asked me, so when did you

1:02:42

realize you were great? I said, never. I

1:02:44

was like, never. When you retired. Yeah. You

1:02:47

know, I never sat back and counted my chip

1:02:50

because I was always afraid that if I, if

1:02:53

I slid at some point, then somebody's

1:02:55

going to catch up to me. Like, is somebody going

1:02:57

to, and the thing is, I'm

1:02:59

telling everybody my, what I do working out,

1:03:01

you can see it. It's documented.

1:03:05

Can you commit to it? That's

1:03:07

the thing that greatness supplies us

1:03:09

all is the ability to

1:03:11

find what it is that you can do

1:03:14

well, but can you commit to it? Everybody

1:03:17

in the beginning of the year is

1:03:19

going to win the NBA championship. Everybody

1:03:22

in the beginning of the year wants to make the All-Star team.

1:03:25

Like everybody has these goals until

1:03:27

it gets hard. And

1:03:29

when it gets hard, oh, man,

1:03:31

coach don't like me. You know, I want to

1:03:33

get traded, you know, this player, you know, screw

1:03:35

him. That that's what the bad teams do.

1:03:38

And even the good teams, when they hit that stride of

1:03:41

complacency, mediocrity, like struggle,

1:03:44

they just talk more. You know, you

1:03:46

sit on the plane, as you mentioned earlier,

1:03:49

also some of the times that I, I

1:03:51

miss the most because my bank wide used

1:03:53

to be like that thick because you're playing

1:03:55

poker on the, on the plane. Buret for

1:03:58

me. Yeah. had

1:04:00

all these games going and you're like, you got to make

1:04:02

sure you come with some ammunition. But

1:04:05

those are the times when we got

1:04:07

so good and we became a

1:04:09

unit because we communicated with each other and

1:04:11

we didn't run off the separate corners

1:04:13

of the plane and just said screw everybody. No, I was like,

1:04:15

come on, we lost. Let's go get the card game. We talk

1:04:17

about it and then all of a sudden we have fun. When

1:04:20

we get off that three to five hour flight,

1:04:22

wherever we were going, we were square

1:04:24

with each other and we knew, okay,

1:04:26

I'll see you tomorrow. We're going to get it, come in and

1:04:28

get some shots up. So it was never animosity because we got

1:04:31

to do this. It's too long of a season to be mad

1:04:33

at somebody. You

1:04:35

know that. Like you got to be able to get

1:04:37

that stuff off your chest. The thing

1:04:39

you said to me in that 2013

1:04:41

playoff series, I think it was

1:04:43

such a valuable lesson

1:04:45

in a different type of

1:04:48

personal accountability because

1:04:51

at that point in

1:04:53

my career, I had some

1:04:56

punches to the face, particularly early

1:04:58

in Orlando. And

1:05:02

I never was going to start for Stan Van Gundy.

1:05:05

He didn't view me as that. He

1:05:08

leaves, Dwight gets traded. That

1:05:11

year before I got traded to

1:05:13

to Milwaukee was

1:05:15

like a fun year, even though we weren't winning because

1:05:17

it was like the first time I got to be

1:05:19

a leader, there was no expectations. And

1:05:22

it was like the first time Jacques Van was like, yeah,

1:05:24

go, go move, go play. And it was like, so it

1:05:26

was like in a way fun. And then you

1:05:28

get, so I had taken personal accountability, but

1:05:30

it was a different type because I get

1:05:33

traded. It's a little bit of a shock to the

1:05:36

system. I mean, year seven, first time getting traded. There's

1:05:39

nothing against the city of Milwaukee, the Bucks

1:05:41

organization. It was just a weird, it was

1:05:43

a weird team. It was, it was a

1:05:45

weird, it was like dynamic on the, on

1:05:47

the, on the roster. Interim

1:05:49

coach, nothing against Jim Boylan. I

1:05:52

kind of got placed in this situation and

1:05:54

I lost myself for a couple of months. And

1:05:57

I was like, that's, I'm still doing my work. But

1:06:01

like I lost that edge, I lost

1:06:03

that like, nah, fuck it. I'm not

1:06:06

going to worry and victim, victimize myself

1:06:08

here because of the circumstances, right? Can't

1:06:12

allow that to happen again. It was super valuable.

1:06:14

You brought up going to Boston. Everybody

1:06:16

talks about, and you guys have talked a ton

1:06:18

about the sacrifices you guys had

1:06:21

to make and the stage of your

1:06:23

career you at when you got there.

1:06:27

What does this sacrifice mean? And

1:06:30

just how many

1:06:32

shots per game you get or your usage

1:06:34

rate? Like what did, what did, how did

1:06:36

this sacrifice that the three of you guys

1:06:38

have to make? How did

1:06:40

that manifest beyond just shots?

1:06:43

I remember because it's, it's pretty

1:06:46

interesting because I'm doing this now as

1:06:48

a coach to my kids,

1:06:50

like whenever they know they're not

1:06:53

going to score, they

1:06:55

just kind of dribble like nice and easy and

1:06:57

they just kind of like pass the ball. And

1:06:59

I'm like, dude, you got to call

1:07:01

harder than that. Cause that actually happened to me.

1:07:04

My first year I'm, I'm

1:07:07

just like, there's this

1:07:09

play that we had where, you

1:07:11

know, I pop out underneath

1:07:15

a big that's on the block. I'll

1:07:18

pop out, catch it and look in, throw

1:07:20

it back. And then I cut back

1:07:22

in and then

1:07:25

there's a screen and I, but the ball's going to go opposite.

1:07:27

So when I did it, I just

1:07:29

kind of lollygagged through the cut.

1:07:31

Deandered about, yeah. Doc was

1:07:33

like, you got to cut harder than that. And

1:07:36

it kind of like kind of pissed me

1:07:38

off because I had

1:07:41

never been pushed in that sense.

1:07:44

You know, because offensively I was

1:07:46

always the guy and

1:07:48

he was always sitting around me, but in this situation,

1:07:50

the ball was going somewhere else. And

1:07:53

so it, it kind

1:07:55

of kind of got into my, my

1:07:58

soul a little bit because I was, I was that he

1:08:00

kind of went at me, but

1:08:03

he was right. I had to

1:08:05

be willing to make the cut so somebody else can

1:08:07

get an opportunity, because they needed to believe

1:08:09

that I was gonna get the ball. And

1:08:12

if I wasn't capable of doing that, then

1:08:15

our offense doesn't work. And Doc used to always

1:08:17

say, our

1:08:20

offense has to work like

1:08:22

a football offensive line. You

1:08:26

got guys that are pulling,

1:08:28

that are blocking in

1:08:30

certain directions, and they're doing everything

1:08:32

they can to get either the

1:08:35

quarterback some time, create a hole for

1:08:37

the running back. Or the receiver has

1:08:39

to block downfield to know this play is coming

1:08:41

in a direction, knowing they're not gonna touch the

1:08:43

ball. That's

1:08:47

super important when you're

1:08:49

playing on, especially if you're a guy that scored well

1:08:51

somewhere else, and now you're coming to a

1:08:53

new team and you're asked to take

1:08:56

less, it's being able to

1:08:58

win on that team's terms and not on your

1:09:00

terms. Cuz the phrase

1:09:02

of my game needs

1:09:06

to be thrown out the window. Your game

1:09:08

happens when you're playing pickup basketball. You get

1:09:10

to go out there, every kid, by the

1:09:12

way, we're losing kids

1:09:14

playing 21 in the park. Where

1:09:17

you're experimenting, you know where the hoop is, you get so

1:09:19

comfortable, you have to be able to understand

1:09:22

my game does not exist in team

1:09:24

basketball. Now, you have

1:09:27

to be so selfishly unselfish,

1:09:30

which means do

1:09:32

your job. Work on your game,

1:09:34

work on your shot, be a great free throw shooter,

1:09:37

be a great dribbler. So now when

1:09:39

the team is assembled, and

1:09:41

you're in a game situation, you

1:09:43

can get plugged into any of these

1:09:45

situations to be able to help

1:09:47

a coach, be the general

1:09:50

to put you in places where he could help you

1:09:52

be effective in the team. If I need you to

1:09:54

set a screen and then pop, you're

1:09:56

gonna set a hard screen and you're gonna pop cuz you can

1:09:58

do that. And then when you catch it. You may

1:10:00

not shoot the ball, but you're going to drive as hard

1:10:02

as you can. If you have a shot, great,

1:10:04

but then this guy's going to be open. All

1:10:07

get, being able to put

1:10:09

all these kids in these situations because

1:10:11

they're multifaceted with their skillset is

1:10:14

the most important thing, but

1:10:17

are guys willing to make that sacrifice

1:10:20

that at the end of the game, I'm going

1:10:22

to make a play that this other dude is going to get the

1:10:24

shot. That is what it in Seattle.

1:10:26

I had the ball in my hand 90% of the time.

1:10:29

You know, at the end of games and

1:10:32

whether I shot the ball or not, I understood who's

1:10:34

open and where the boss should go, but I was

1:10:36

the score. It was coming down to me in Boston.

1:10:41

I was somewhere around it, you

1:10:43

know, where I was create helping create the action,

1:10:46

but you hit some clutch shots for Boston. I

1:10:48

did. I did. But, but that again, it goes,

1:10:50

it goes to the point of we

1:10:54

actually had a system. Where

1:10:56

I'm running up to set up a screen on Paul,

1:10:58

KG's flaring me and now Paul drives and he knows

1:11:00

I'm wide open the corner because he's

1:11:03

now making those plays because he

1:11:05

also understood like we want to win. This

1:11:08

isn't about, you know, Paul, one

1:11:10

of, one of my favorite, uh, game

1:11:12

winners is in Charlotte, Charlotte had

1:11:15

our number, they

1:11:17

had, uh, uh,

1:11:20

I think, uh, Jason Richardson was on the team. Um,

1:11:24

uh, what was the dunker? Uh,

1:11:27

Jared Wallace, Jared Wallace. He

1:11:29

gave us so many fits because

1:11:32

they use him as a stretch for, and

1:11:35

for the most part, KG was always underneath the

1:11:37

basket. So when they stretched him out on the formula,

1:11:40

he was shooting from, from

1:11:42

the perimeter and he was driving and dunking. And so

1:11:44

we, I mean, every

1:11:46

time we played them, we had a difficult

1:11:48

time. So we were down at this

1:11:50

point and you know, by hook or by crook, we ended

1:11:52

up coming back and I don't

1:11:55

remember if we were down one or two, but,

1:11:59

uh, they're ball out. Eddie

1:12:02

House gets his hand on the ball. Paul gets

1:12:04

on out of bounds play. Paul gets the ball

1:12:07

and Paul doesn't even think to shoot it. I'm at

1:12:09

the top of the key and I just rotate. Paul

1:12:11

just turns and throws it and I get it off.

1:12:14

Buzzer goes off and then it

1:12:16

goes in and then you can see the Charlotte guys

1:12:18

just lay down like you

1:12:20

know because they played they played an

1:12:23

amazing game but we just knew how

1:12:25

to win and that is the

1:12:27

difference in the great teams and the average

1:12:29

teams not only in the NBA but in

1:12:32

every sport. Specifically basketball. You

1:12:34

got to make your free throws, you can't

1:12:36

turn the ball over and you got to

1:12:38

rebound and those three points are the

1:12:40

points that allow teams, the good teams to know

1:12:42

how to close games and then and we just

1:12:44

always do not do that but it always it

1:12:47

was born from the idea we

1:12:49

knew where everybody was going to be and

1:12:51

we stayed there like just

1:12:56

explicitly knowing that I'm gonna give Paul room to

1:12:59

operate but when the minute they turn their head

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I think the the says it's interesting when

1:14:33

you. First started on

1:14:36

that the physical. Act

1:14:38

of being a detour. Is

1:14:41

such a different experience and you're

1:14:43

having played against you guys. The

1:14:47

sacrifice I think provide Kg was like

1:14:49

are now I'm and become. The.

1:14:52

Best screener in the and beer by

1:14:54

way. That. Motherfucker system. Illegal picks as

1:14:56

Eagles as he would put a. System

1:15:00

of with my occupation. But

1:15:05

but it is it is that

1:15:07

It's interesting because I think what

1:15:09

was I feel like different about.

1:15:12

Your. Team Even initially it wasn't there.

1:15:15

I don't I've never felt like you know and

1:15:17

inside a point against you guys Watch You guys

1:15:19

are you. There. Wasn't like. A

1:15:22

a growing in period of figuring

1:15:24

it out together. The. Skill

1:15:27

sets or compliment each other. and there was never

1:15:29

that. Thing. That happens sometimes

1:15:31

with the big three which is

1:15:33

like my turn you down where

1:15:36

do you guys could com all

1:15:38

operate in the same ecosystem? Doing

1:15:41

the things that you were good at. And

1:15:43

I think that's part of what made it

1:15:45

unique. I. Also want to use this

1:15:48

opportunity. Because. I've been thinking a lot about

1:15:50

this lately. And. You brought up the

1:15:52

my game thing and we're talking

1:15:54

about sacrifice. I. Think

1:15:56

an overlooked thing. When.

1:15:59

we talk about the NBA and certain players,

1:16:01

like when we talk about guys,

1:16:03

individual talent or, you

1:16:06

know, his skillset, it's

1:16:08

like we, we, we

1:16:10

lose what makes a good

1:16:12

basketball team work if

1:16:16

Rondo and you are out on a break on

1:16:18

a three on two. And

1:16:21

the big doesn't run to the rim. You're

1:16:25

not going to be open. If he doesn't draw that

1:16:27

low man in Rondo, can't make that kick pass to

1:16:29

you, right? Why

1:16:32

don't we highlight rim runs that lead to open

1:16:34

shots? Every time Luca is in a pick and

1:16:36

roll and Derek Lively rolls

1:16:38

to the rim and Luca sprays

1:16:40

out to Tim Hardaway. It's a

1:16:42

great pass from Luca. It's an open

1:16:44

three from Tim Hardaway. We never highlight the fact

1:16:46

that Derek Lively drew in the

1:16:48

defense. He has to dive. We, we have

1:16:51

tracking now where we can track screen assists.

1:16:53

Why don't we put that in a fucking

1:16:55

box score? I'm serious.

1:16:57

No, it's a, it's a lot. This

1:16:59

is basketball. This is basketball. It's

1:17:02

not my game. It's

1:17:04

all the things like I always talk, I always talk about like

1:17:07

an NBA team, basketball team,

1:17:09

it's like an organism, right?

1:17:12

And you have to feed it certain things and

1:17:14

all the different parts of the organism have to

1:17:16

work properly for it to be a healthy functioning

1:17:18

organism. And it's so much

1:17:21

more than just my game. And,

1:17:23

and I think this where it comes down

1:17:25

to watching film and

1:17:27

being able to be, you know, we're

1:17:30

talking about guys that really can coach

1:17:33

and kind of break it down. Like I have

1:17:35

kids that I coach, you know, I had to

1:17:37

teach them to pick a role this year

1:17:39

because a lot of our sets were picking roll stuff. And I

1:17:41

told them all these, a lot of teams

1:17:44

that we play against, they want to just run zone

1:17:46

all day long and they don't want to teach their

1:17:48

kids basketball. I said, this is why these kids aren't

1:17:50

going to college. And so my

1:17:52

kids, they would, they started

1:17:54

off, they would run a pick a roll and they would stop

1:17:56

because they would see the big hedge. Coach,

1:17:59

the big was right. there I can go I said.

1:18:01

I. Would say stop during his where's the biggest

1:18:04

So many some is right there since all

1:18:06

was as you do. Is.

1:18:08

I go out like go around him do I

1:18:10

want you to drive drawn out the see what

1:18:12

does Garda that he can combat? So then what

1:18:14

They started to have a see a big name

1:18:16

reject the big role. And. Had explained

1:18:18

to him. I said. Offensive,

1:18:21

we were trying to build a rhythm. To.

1:18:24

Are often I know that individual you can reject

1:18:26

his fucking around. You get that been rained you

1:18:28

could shoot it. But. How does that help?

1:18:30

our office? How. Does that? Destroy

1:18:33

their defense and make the defense stretch.

1:18:36

You. Have to go off the pick and roll.

1:18:38

See. How their biggest they will feed on. Stay

1:18:40

with you. And in a bit

1:18:42

this guy gets caught up in the screen and as

1:18:45

you go downhill and in some as comes out the

1:18:47

bambee Swing it and now you got three over here.

1:18:49

As it is so many things that happen.

1:18:52

In a pick and roll situation that you have

1:18:54

to understand and been a point guard, you

1:18:56

have to be able to lead. The

1:18:58

see my got a kid to that, you know? Our.

1:19:01

Some playoff two feet. Playoff.

1:19:03

Two feet extends. Your.

1:19:06

Opportunities. Because. Of you

1:19:08

commit the one you're an air and of the

1:19:10

guys bigger unique is api. Message. To

1:19:12

get blocked. Oregon travel? Are you going

1:19:14

to take a really crazy shop? But if you play

1:19:16

off to see. Now. You could pump

1:19:18

fake. You get their faith alive to see your shoes

1:19:20

of nothing there Do you? Swing your way back out.

1:19:24

Kids. One of the get to first time always

1:19:26

say that you know you guys want to get the

1:19:28

first time you can get it first time. You

1:19:30

gotta be patient and seats on Think nothing but

1:19:32

make I tell my son an all time was

1:19:34

a game I said see how they played are two

1:19:36

feet and they sphere back and he swung in

1:19:38

a ghetto facade. I'm. So. It

1:19:40

is. It. Is coaching. It

1:19:43

is teaching the game. it is watching film.

1:19:45

It's. Saw in the did. The key

1:19:47

is what sets what we're looking for. The

1:19:50

set like our of i'll drop a set.

1:19:53

A not works for the seen. it. And.

1:19:55

i was cause games not steal stuff from

1:19:57

other causes off who knew who knows how

1:19:59

to run plays, you

1:20:01

know, we take stuff from other people and

1:20:03

we try to implement it. You know, most coaches

1:20:06

I tell kids, you see coaches that

1:20:08

are really good. They might be

1:20:10

great out of timeouts. You know, they might, you

1:20:12

know, be a flair

1:20:15

setting team. You know, they might be a

1:20:17

great post-up team. Like, you'll see the, you

1:20:20

know, how they operate. So, you

1:20:23

guys have to be able to execute

1:20:26

the game plan and

1:20:28

plays out of a timeout,

1:20:30

specifically sideline out of bounds

1:20:33

and baseline out of bounds. You know, we should

1:20:35

be able to score or get an opportunity to

1:20:37

score every time, but you guys, you can't mix

1:20:39

it up. You got to be in the right

1:20:41

spots. You can't half-ass through

1:20:44

the cuts. You got to set

1:20:46

screens. Like, all those basic fundamentals

1:20:48

are ultimately what makes teams really

1:20:50

good. You're

1:20:52

able to score and it levels them

1:20:55

up to get to the next step.

1:20:58

Because if you can't do these things, then you can't

1:21:00

score. Then they say we get beat by 15, 20

1:21:02

every night and that is the first step to

1:21:04

that kid retiring from that sport. Very

1:21:08

interesting. I want to talk about shooting. You're

1:21:11

a pretty good shooter. Steph

1:21:14

Curry on Hot Ones said

1:21:16

that if he was

1:21:18

to teach someone how to shoot, he

1:21:20

would teach Clay Thompson's form. I

1:21:26

wanted to shoot like you, like not just like

1:21:28

makes and misses, but like I legitimately wanted

1:21:31

to shoot a jump shot like you, release

1:21:33

point. I even shot a flatter

1:21:35

shot because you shot a flatter shot. When

1:21:38

you look at different guys shooting

1:21:40

the basketball, curious how you

1:21:42

learned how to shoot that way, why

1:21:44

it worked for you specifically, but

1:21:47

also how would you teach? I

1:21:49

know you have with your kids, but how

1:21:51

would you teach and who would you emulate

1:21:54

for shooting the basketball? Well, again,

1:21:56

I think that

1:21:59

there's a similar analogy

1:22:02

to golf. Like you

1:22:05

take somebody who can't, who's never swung golf club

1:22:07

and they want golf lessons. First thing I would

1:22:09

say is go play golf, go to the range,

1:22:11

hit balls for a couple a week

1:22:13

or so and then come back and let me see what your

1:22:15

body has developed. Now you

1:22:18

know what your body can and cannot do and now we can work

1:22:20

from there because I don't want to try and force you in a

1:22:22

position that you

1:22:24

can't get to. You know, tightness,

1:22:27

like whatever athletic ability is, sometimes

1:22:29

a guy will go to a golf

1:22:31

instructor and the golf instructor is trying to make them get

1:22:33

to a space that their body just can't get to. So

1:22:36

if I'm teaching, I'm watching the kid

1:22:39

exactly what they can and cannot do

1:22:41

based on their physical limitations or you

1:22:44

know, abilities. Right.

1:22:47

Not everyone can shoot a jump shot like you. Yeah.

1:22:49

That's a fact. Like Joe

1:22:51

L. Embiid has great form, but Joe L.

1:22:53

Embiid is not going to elevate 28, 30

1:22:56

inches off the ground in

1:22:58

the shot. It's just not going to happen for him.

1:23:00

But what I will do is because I have the

1:23:02

issue with my, with my sons. So

1:23:05

every kid at a young age, you

1:23:08

know, a lot of times what happens and I found

1:23:10

this fascinating because

1:23:12

my boys at a younger age and even my 17 year

1:23:14

old now, he, he doesn't do

1:23:17

any more, but he's the push from underneath his chin.

1:23:19

So he pushed the ball up like that. Why?

1:23:22

Because they're using their body power wise because they

1:23:24

don't understand shooting and they think that's what they

1:23:26

need to thrust the ball in the air. So,

1:23:29

you know, we have a trampoline, you

1:23:32

know, in, in our yard and

1:23:34

the boys are bouncing up and down on a

1:23:37

trampoline and they got, you know, the

1:23:39

hoops on, on both sides. So they're, I mean,

1:23:41

they're over here, like they, their,

1:23:43

their games are always

1:23:46

like fascinating. Look out the window and

1:23:48

watch them because they'll do backflips between the legs. Like

1:23:51

my now 12 year old, he's had a dunk

1:23:53

contest where he's like doing everything, spins and dunking.

1:23:55

And then he shoots it. And I was watching

1:23:57

him one time, shoot this basketball. He's

1:24:00

got the ball in his hands, he's going. With

1:24:03

rotation and everything and I was like, so

1:24:06

he can shoot like that with his fingertips. Oh,

1:24:09

he gets a bigger ball. He's

1:24:11

shooting. Because now

1:24:14

that ball is too big for him. So now

1:24:16

he's hoisting. Now he's pushing for underneath his chin.

1:24:18

Now his form's off. He's just trying to get the

1:24:20

ball there and thing is that he'll be proficient at

1:24:22

still making the shot because he can adjust. He can

1:24:24

adapt. So

1:24:27

in many instances the kids at young age definitely

1:24:29

need smaller balls. So it

1:24:32

doesn't help them develop that habit of pushing. Then

1:24:35

when they get older now he's at the age where

1:24:38

he's still doing the same things. You know,

1:24:40

you see a lot where the kids

1:24:42

end up doing like this and everybody's

1:24:45

follow through is right here and I always

1:24:47

tell them don't follow through with your guide

1:24:50

hand. It's always right here. Don't do that

1:24:52

because that's what they're used to doing from

1:24:54

here. So now they evolved to get up

1:24:56

here and they're doing the same thing. So

1:24:59

the first thing that I tell every kid when

1:25:01

they shoot is I watch how they hold the

1:25:03

ball. Because a lot of times they

1:25:06

hold it in their palm. So

1:25:08

remember if I and what I do is

1:25:10

I'll throw the football have a football throw at them. You

1:25:13

never catch the football down here. You

1:25:16

know and then I throw a golf ball at them. You don't catch

1:25:18

the golf ball like that. You catch it up here.

1:25:21

I said so when I give you the basketball don't catch

1:25:23

the basketball here. So when you

1:25:25

shoot the last thing happens is it rolls off your fingers.

1:25:28

So now if you're on

1:25:30

a free throw line watch

1:25:32

college watch the pros. You

1:25:34

know pros do it because they're skilled at it.

1:25:36

They're adept at it. But some other guys are

1:25:38

really bad shooters because they let the ball start

1:25:40

here and then it rolls all

1:25:42

the way here all the way to

1:25:45

here. Now once it gets to here their motions already

1:25:47

right here. They have no touch and they have to

1:25:49

push. Josh Hart. Yeah, so it

1:25:51

gets here and it's like it's like

1:25:53

they're pushing with their arm to get the ball up

1:25:55

their hands. It's not in their wrist anymore. It's

1:25:58

interesting if we think about basketball. shooting

1:26:01

not as a push but a throw. I

1:26:05

was throwing a baseball unless

1:26:07

I was trying to throw a fucked up pitch. I

1:26:09

would not throw with my palm. No,

1:26:12

even a football. Yeah, it's

1:26:14

the fingers that are releasing.

1:26:17

It's not the palm. There's obviously some shooters,

1:26:20

Mike Dunleavy, Damian Lillard, that shoot

1:26:22

on the palm. Yeah, but I watch all of them.

1:26:24

Some of them that shoot in the palm, they got to do

1:26:26

like this because they got to really throw it. And they get

1:26:28

really adept at being able to do that. But

1:26:30

specifically kids, because I always watch it and I

1:26:32

try to get them to see it. And

1:26:35

I even pull up my own clips.

1:26:37

And I don't want everybody to have to shoot

1:26:40

it like me, but I've had success because I

1:26:42

duplicated those same habits. And we're talking

1:26:44

about getting the ball off fast. You

1:26:46

know, you're talking about moving your feet and getting the ball

1:26:48

off quickly. So if you look at me on the free

1:26:51

throw line, the one thing that you'll see is the ball

1:26:53

is always served up. So you

1:26:55

could put your hand through

1:26:57

my, right here

1:26:59

on my palm and the ball's sitting up

1:27:01

here. It's not sitting like that flat. What

1:27:03

happens is they're holding the whole ball because

1:27:05

it's an insecurity because most people say, oh,

1:27:07

I'm not filling the ball. It's not going

1:27:09

to, you know, I'm in any pushing

1:27:13

like this whole hand. No, we just need you right

1:27:15

here. It's born from

1:27:17

kids at a young age that aren't strong

1:27:19

enough to not working at, you know, their

1:27:22

wrists and shooting free throws. And that's why

1:27:24

I said, whenever, whenever I competed in three

1:27:26

point contest, I

1:27:28

didn't shoot threes. I went to the free throw line. It's

1:27:31

one thing to get my list was another thing to

1:27:33

work on my release point and shooting free throws is

1:27:35

all released. And I'm working on catching the ball and

1:27:37

feel comfortable with the ball in my hand, breathing

1:27:40

and feeling this whole motion. Now it's

1:27:43

a match. Can I match my lift

1:27:45

with my release? That is the trick.

1:27:48

Because once you get into a real game, if you

1:27:50

could match that, now you're cooking with hot grease. It's

1:27:52

really interesting when I would have bad

1:27:55

shooting workouts, when

1:27:57

you would have a bad shooting, I assume you did the same thing.

1:27:59

Like if I. felt like, man, everything's

1:28:02

just not in alignment right now. My

1:28:04

muscle memory's off. I just

1:28:06

stopped the drill and go, right. So feel right to

1:28:08

the free throw line. Let me figure this out. The

1:28:11

release point thing is huge. The

1:28:13

shot in the corner over

1:28:15

Tony Parker. When we

1:28:17

were talking earlier about preparation and

1:28:20

routine, one of

1:28:22

the most famous shots in NBA finals history, one of

1:28:25

those famous shots in NBA history. What

1:28:28

went into that shot? Uh,

1:28:31

that day you, you, you

1:28:33

think about that series, that's game six. So

1:28:35

I did that in

1:28:37

just, if you just think about those six games, I

1:28:40

did that at least 30 to

1:28:42

40 shots before every game. And

1:28:45

then every shooting routine, you know, before

1:28:47

practice in between, uh,

1:28:49

it was just, it was just say, um,

1:28:53

it was for me, it was, uh, a

1:28:56

right that I had to, to

1:28:59

be able to push

1:29:02

on a daily basis to be able to move and

1:29:05

shoot a shot where I can go

1:29:07

sideways and then ball comes up in

1:29:09

there. Cause now what happens

1:29:11

is you see kids, they

1:29:14

don't understand that when I'm yelling at them in

1:29:16

practice saying faster, faster, don't, you

1:29:19

know, and, and you know, we'll shoot spot shots just

1:29:21

to get them working on the release. And then I'll

1:29:23

put them through drills where they got to run. So

1:29:25

I have a drill

1:29:27

where you start this basket, this

1:29:29

basket, full cart court. So this team,

1:29:31

there's three guys here, three here, um,

1:29:35

maybe four here, four here. This

1:29:37

side, they're on team. So when they shoot, they

1:29:40

got to run to this side. So each

1:29:42

basket, you got to make 15 shots. So

1:29:45

this basket finishes with 15 first. Then

1:29:48

they all can run down there and help

1:29:50

this team, you know, shoot their 15 and

1:29:52

whoever's finished wins. There's consequences you get at

1:29:54

the run, but I told

1:29:56

them what makes this

1:29:58

drill. easier for you,

1:30:02

it's the opposite of what you think. Because

1:30:04

if you shoot and you lollygag down to the

1:30:07

other end, that means by the time you

1:30:09

get down there, your rest is less.

1:30:12

So now by the time you get down there, now you're

1:30:14

about to have to shoot again and you're always behind. So

1:30:17

when you shoot, haul ass down here to get

1:30:19

more rest. Now you got two

1:30:22

or three people in front of you, now you can rest

1:30:24

and you can gather yourself and you can go right in

1:30:26

your shot. So the sprint is the magic. That's

1:30:28

why you do it. Run as hard

1:30:30

as you can to rest, just that's what

1:30:32

happens in games and then take your game

1:30:35

shot. If you

1:30:37

can practice that, so

1:30:39

you put yourself in situations that

1:30:42

you're always used to being able to

1:30:45

catch the ball sideways, go up in the

1:30:47

air. Because remember, shooting is

1:30:49

just that little space that you

1:30:51

have. You can't come from way

1:30:53

over there in one spot to

1:30:55

here. You're always in a confined

1:30:57

space. You watch the guy spacing and

1:31:00

if you're on his baseline, you just

1:31:02

slide to the left or

1:31:04

to the right a little bit. You slide

1:31:07

to the right and then you go up in

1:31:09

the air and shoot. So he's got up in the air.

1:31:11

You don't have a chance to go chop, chop, gather

1:31:15

and then shoot. I

1:31:17

think that's what's the most amazing thing about that shot

1:31:19

though, is that it was

1:31:21

in such a confined space and

1:31:24

truthfully a confined amount of time

1:31:26

too. Yeah, like you know about

1:31:28

shooting, you shot

1:31:30

so many shots in your routine, you

1:31:33

know where the basket is. Like

1:31:35

I used to do... Spatial awareness. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1:31:37

Like I'm sitting in a... What I would

1:31:40

do is I would catch the

1:31:42

ball with my back to the basket and I

1:31:44

would jump in the air and shoot it. Literally.

1:31:47

Like if the basket is there, I would be

1:31:49

facing that way in the arena and then you

1:31:52

got... It would be right there. He'd throw

1:31:54

me the ball right here and as he's throwing it,

1:31:56

I would jump and shoot in there. You start to

1:31:59

understand where your

1:32:01

relationship is to you and the

1:32:03

basket. And it's

1:32:06

a very like advanced way to think

1:32:09

about shooting because

1:32:11

now you're so comfortable with

1:32:14

turning left shoulder, turning right shoulder. And

1:32:16

I'll tell you another thing that's super important because

1:32:19

I'll tell my son this because we were playing one-on-one the

1:32:21

other day and I was on a bad hip, but I

1:32:23

was just kind of messing around with him. And

1:32:28

every time he would go to shoot the ball, like he

1:32:30

had to go from here to up here.

1:32:32

And I said, so now when you start to

1:32:34

get in evolved shooting, now you have to

1:32:36

know how to replace the

1:32:38

ball. Cause if you got a good defender on

1:32:41

you with the ball in front of you, can you bring the ball over

1:32:43

here and then get to here? Can you bring

1:32:45

the ball from here and then get to here? Because

1:32:47

everybody's comfort zone is to come up from right

1:32:49

here. So now you gotta be able to catch

1:32:52

the ball over here and then go right to here real fast. On

1:32:55

that shot, if I remember

1:32:57

correctly, did

1:32:59

you bring it from your left? No,

1:33:02

I brought it from right here. You brought it from left? Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

1:33:05

Because it came, he

1:33:07

got it to me like right here and then I came

1:33:09

down with it. Okay. You know, so it's

1:33:14

even like a blur to me because it feels like

1:33:16

it happened in slow motion. That played

1:33:18

it. Yeah. I mean, I watched the ball, even as

1:33:20

I think about now, I watched the ball and

1:33:23

it just kind of, it was like a

1:33:25

real movie. It happened in slow motion. And I

1:33:27

swear it didn't feel like I

1:33:29

did anything with it. It didn't feel like it

1:33:31

was gonna make it to the rim. It

1:33:36

just kind of, as I think about it, just kind of

1:33:38

floated right there. And then all of a sudden it was

1:33:40

just like, whoa. And.

1:33:43

So you didn't feel like when you shot it, because

1:33:45

we know as shooters, we know. We know

1:33:47

a perfect shot. We know a shot's going in.

1:33:49

Yeah, no. You didn't feel that. Nope. That

1:33:52

had no feeling whatsoever. And

1:33:55

it was just, I

1:33:57

can only equate it to just

1:33:59

the work. that I put in my body

1:34:01

knew. It was like I was

1:34:03

in a position where my body just said, like, we got

1:34:05

this. We got this. We've

1:34:08

been here. We'll take over from here. And

1:34:13

it was like that one shot. As many game

1:34:16

winners as I've hit over my career, it

1:34:19

seemed like you just set up for that

1:34:21

one shot and then that's it. It's the

1:34:24

worst anxiety you can imagine. You get to a point where I'm shooting

1:34:26

90 plus percent from the

1:34:38

free throw line too. So now I'm

1:34:40

in a position that whenever the game is on

1:34:42

the line, it's a two point game. Everybody's like

1:34:44

falling to the ball towards me. So

1:34:47

all this anxiety

1:34:50

around shooting, making free throws, being able to come through

1:34:52

in a clutch. I was like, this,

1:34:56

I don't want to be fortunate

1:34:59

for me and you had a little more

1:35:01

than me. Social

1:35:03

media, there's such a crux of pressure

1:35:05

that comes down on players. When you

1:35:07

don't perform well, people are right on

1:35:10

your timeline, right

1:35:12

at you. And

1:35:15

I didn't have to deal with that, but

1:35:17

you always worried about being

1:35:20

able to perform in those situations. That's why I was like,

1:35:22

I just, I can't sit and rest thinking

1:35:26

this is going to solve itself. Like

1:35:28

I got to be able to push myself and be in

1:35:30

these situations. That's why it wasn't about success for me. It

1:35:32

wasn't about somebody saying that I was good.

1:35:35

It was about me being able to come through in a moment

1:35:37

when most people don't want that smoke. And

1:35:42

you did. Ray, thank

1:35:44

you. Appreciate this time. Do the best man.

1:35:46

Great times. Great time. All right.

1:35:49

Let's get to the new era draft with

1:35:51

Kim Loechner. Before

1:35:53

we begin, we wanted to give a shout out to new

1:35:55

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1:35:58

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1:36:19

If you want to see Tommy and my favorites, Tommy of course

1:36:21

is wearing a beautiful new era cap

1:36:23

and jacket. And jacket. Head to

1:36:25

toe. And jacket. I love

1:36:28

it. All right. Tommy, do the draft on

1:36:30

your foot. I want to explain this part.

1:36:32

Okay. So we are going to draft.

1:36:34

We are going to draft players from

1:36:36

the nineties that would

1:36:38

thrive in today's NBA. With

1:36:41

the caveat, you have

1:36:43

to, if you pick a player,

1:36:45

that's how they played in the nineties. So for

1:36:48

an example, you can pick Larry Bird because he

1:36:50

played in the nineties, but you're not getting prime

1:36:53

84 to 80. You're

1:36:55

getting 92 bird in the year.

1:36:57

Okay. And you're

1:37:00

trying to build a starting five. You're trying to

1:37:02

build a legit five man basketball team. Even for

1:37:04

a guy like me, who Larry bird is my

1:37:06

favorite athlete of all time. That's a reach for

1:37:09

me to take Larry at the 92

1:37:11

version of Larry bird. That's going to

1:37:13

be hard. Okay. All right. I

1:37:16

like that. So you start, I go second JJ third.

1:37:18

We take it back. I was going to, I'm going

1:37:20

to go right off the bat. I was going to

1:37:22

take it off. Give me like, go Jordan. I'll go

1:37:24

Jordan one. Is that okay? Can we do that? I

1:37:26

want to do that. I want you to be just.

1:37:28

I think he would be just fine. There's not going

1:37:30

to, I mean, I keep, there's no banter with

1:37:32

that pick. No, there's nothing to say. There's nothing

1:37:34

to say. You could have away, even if I

1:37:36

went with like wizards, Jordan is still pretty good,

1:37:38

but I'm not, I'm not,

1:37:40

I'm going with the Jordan. I played

1:37:42

against, okay. That Jordan. All right. Okay.

1:37:46

Fair. I'm taking the key. Oh,

1:37:48

taking it. I need him. Wow. Oh

1:37:52

man. Man. That threw me off. That's

1:37:54

a great thing. What were you thinking? Thought

1:37:56

he was going to be there? There's

1:38:00

a good chance I was gonna take him with

1:38:02

my next thing. Yeah, okay All

1:38:06

right, I'm gonna go I'm gonna go

1:38:08

with Shaq I'm gonna go with

1:38:10

Shaq and I feel

1:38:14

like man, I

1:38:17

feel like I can get enough in terms

1:38:21

of guard play later So

1:38:27

I'm gonna I'm gonna go with Scotty Go

1:38:29

to your own Scotty one the

1:38:31

shack Oh, she's a shag shag snake track right

1:38:33

here three and four. Yeah. Yeah, we go back

1:38:36

to the Pacific Was there a specific shack year

1:38:38

or just shack overall? Well obviously

1:38:42

He got to the finals with

1:38:44

Orlando was a dominant with

1:38:46

the Lakers and obviously didn't

1:38:48

win a championship till 2000, but

1:38:51

in terms of the

1:38:54

sort of Athletic anomaly

1:38:56

that was Shaquille O'Neal. That was

1:38:58

the 90s Shaquille O'Neal you

1:39:01

next. Yep I'm

1:39:03

going Reggie Andrew. Yeah Yeah,

1:39:07

I think Reggie's Reggie's game. He

1:39:09

said he said a couple years ago. He said he'd average 45 Interesting

1:39:13

he played which maybe might be a little bit of a

1:39:15

stretch But I didn't realize the most threes

1:39:17

he ever attempted was six point six per game. Yeah,

1:39:19

it's career Reggie interesting

1:39:23

45 a game interesting Take

1:39:26

man. This is hard because I got some guys

1:39:28

like the way they played I Could

1:39:30

utilize them differently like different spots and actually take more

1:39:33

advantage of some of their skills than they could even

1:39:35

do it in The 90s because of the way that

1:39:37

the floor spread. So that's why this is gonna be

1:39:39

hard for me I

1:39:41

am going to go Who the

1:39:44

hell is gonna drive? I guess you can have a keen to

1:39:46

counter shack But

1:39:48

see there's there's other centers that I could pick

1:39:51

them have to guard him golden era of centers

1:39:53

I know but it's like I don't know like

1:39:56

the way the game is played now I don't

1:39:58

know that they'd be as utilized offensively Right?

1:40:01

Well, he, this is, this is why, so

1:40:03

Shaq, obviously I'm going to

1:40:05

draft, I'm going to try to draft a team. Cause

1:40:07

I thought you were going to take Shaq. I'm

1:40:09

going to try to draft a team and

1:40:11

this is why I picked Scotty second. I need

1:40:14

mobile, versatile defenders cause you're

1:40:16

actually going to, Shaq's going to play

1:40:18

draft coverage. Right? I'm not going to

1:40:21

do a situation like Rudy Gobert in

1:40:23

the playoffs where you're, you're like taking

1:40:26

them out into space, right? I need guys

1:40:28

who can cover ground. I

1:40:30

feel very confident with my Scotty pick. Yeah. I think that

1:40:32

makes a lot of sense. All right. I am going to

1:40:34

go. I'm going to put, I'm going to put

1:40:36

a hell of a defensive team out

1:40:39

there. I'm going to go

1:40:41

with Grant Hill. I'm

1:40:43

going to go with the grand to counter your Scotty. I had that

1:40:47

one. So Grant plays a three. Yeah. I would, I

1:40:49

was hoping to go. It was going

1:40:51

to be my next pick and I

1:40:53

was just going to play in the point. 96

1:40:55

Grant. I got Grant at the three, Jordan at

1:40:57

the two, and now I

1:41:00

get another pick. I

1:41:02