0:08

Welcome to the Peter King Podcast. A

0:11

wild card weekend. By the way, I

0:13

refuse to call it super wild card.

0:16

I don't know that any weekend should

0:20

be super anything. But

0:22

anyway, it's wild

0:24

card weekend edition of

0:26

the Peter King Podcast. We'll be joined by

0:29

Miles Simmons, my

0:31

friend and partner at NBC

0:33

with this podcast. And

0:35

we'll also be joined this week

0:38

by Brad Holmes, the general

0:40

manager of the

0:42

three seed Detroit Lions. So

0:45

happy to be joined by

0:47

Brad. He's got great stories,

0:49

particularly about Amun-Ra Saint Brown, that

0:52

you'll really enjoy. And

0:55

Miles Simmons, I may even

0:57

call this the Mike

0:59

Vrabel just ruined the continuity

1:02

of our podcast. Podcast. Because

1:06

Miles Simmons and I, my partner at

1:08

NBC Sports for the Peter

1:10

King Podcast, recorded

1:12

just a lovely podcast.

1:16

An endless podcast, but a

1:18

lovely podcast on

1:20

Tuesday morning of pre-wildcard

1:22

week. And of course, you

1:24

had to know that about 1130

1:26

Eastern time, on

1:30

or maybe noon Eastern time on Tuesday,

1:33

the news broke that Amy

1:35

Adams Strunk, the controlling owner of the

1:37

Tennessee Titans has fired Mike Vrabel, which

1:41

seems insane. And

1:44

I think it is insane. But I think

1:47

that this probably Miles

1:49

was about more than

1:51

just this one event or one

1:54

lousy year. But Let's

1:56

just preview the podcast and then just

1:58

understand. that we're gonna look a little

2:01

bit different. At least I am. And.

2:03

A may sound a little bit different

2:05

in the podcast because we don't have

2:08

our regular equipment. I as

2:10

we sort of do a cut and

2:12

paste edition of this podcast. We're.

2:14

Gonna have a full

2:17

look. At all of the

2:19

coaching vacancy here is top of

2:21

the podcast. Were going have a

2:23

playoff preview. Miles Simmons and I

2:25

are going to talk about our

2:27

upstart teams. the teams that are

2:29

a little bit down in the.

2:32

Ah, Seedings, Who teams that we

2:34

like a little bit more than

2:37

maybe Mr. Seeding does. So we'll

2:39

talk about that a little bit.

2:42

Then. We're also. Going.

2:45

To talk about a few other things

2:47

and our podcast were going to go.

2:50

Dive. Deep into the defensive player

2:53

of the Year award. A

2:55

which to me is the most

2:57

difficult far and away. Award.

3:00

This year we're going to

3:02

talk about the New Orleans

3:04

Saints. And. What on God's

3:06

green Earth happened at the end of

3:08

that game to make. The

3:10

saints and the falcons who hate

3:12

each other anyway now hate each

3:14

other even more. And maybe even

3:17

some people on the saints. Hate.

3:19

Other people on the saints even more will

3:21

get into that. And.

3:25

We're. Also going to talk a little

3:27

bit about my trip to Miami over

3:29

the weekend and. And. What

3:31

an odd football game at

3:33

was and how never bet

3:36

against Josh Alan? Anyway,

3:39

Miles. Thank you so

3:41

much for of adjusting your

3:44

life to the whims of

3:46

the coach firing season. And

3:49

when we get your first reaction to

3:51

the firing of my radio. And

3:54

the fact that. It. Appears

3:56

to me. That

3:58

the Titans? cool. have certainly

4:01

gotten something in trade for

4:04

Vrable but chose not

4:06

to do it. I have my own theories on

4:08

that. I'll open up the floor to you. You

4:11

start and I will throw in

4:13

my two cents. Yeah, well, Peter,

4:15

you know, you said that it's kind of an

4:17

insane move. And to me, the

4:19

only way that this makes sense is

4:21

if there were some sort of power

4:23

struggle between, you know,

4:25

whether it's ownership, Mike Brable, or

4:28

then also, you know, you have

4:30

GM Rand Carthon and perhaps he

4:32

and Amy Adams-Strugg decided that they

4:34

wanted to go in a specific

4:37

direction with the way that the

4:39

team works. And Mike Brable, for

4:41

whatever reason, does not fit into

4:43

the mold of who they want

4:46

as head coach of that football team. And

4:49

it doesn't really make sense. You know, this is somebody

4:51

in Mike Brable who was AP coach of the year

4:53

two years ago. You know, he took

4:56

over that Titans team and they

4:58

went to the AFC Championship game in 2019

5:01

after switching to Ryan Tannehill as

5:04

quarterback over Marcus Mariota. And Ryan Tannehill,

5:06

you know, and yes, he's not playing

5:08

at this level anymore, certainly. But he

5:10

was playing at an MVP level in

5:13

2019 once he took over as quarterback.

5:15

You know, you've got a team that

5:17

was still extremely motivated and you could

5:19

tell through the latter half of this

5:22

season, even though things were not going

5:24

well for them. Right. They went down

5:26

to Miami and beat Miami really

5:28

soundly, I thought, you know, it wasn't just

5:30

that, yeah, they had the extra, they had

5:33

to execute that comeback, but they really dominated

5:35

Miami physically in that game. That's why they

5:37

were able to win it at the end.

5:40

Right. You look at what they did against

5:42

Jacksonville in the last game of the season,

5:44

nothing to really play for, but

5:46

Derek Henry goes out and he runs like

5:48

a house of fire. You know, you still

5:50

have this team playing at a really high

5:52

level with really high effort. I guess I

5:54

should really say throughout the course of the

5:56

year. And what more

5:59

do you want? From coach than that,

6:01

I mean yeah, I know he's not

6:03

gonna be the biggest often says innovator.

6:05

He's not of the Shanahan like Sean

6:08

Mcvay. You know that cut Mike Mcdaniel,

6:10

that kind of mold. That's not who

6:12

he is. But. This is somebody

6:14

who can coach the hell out of

6:16

the football team. And I think that

6:18

somebody. In. This coaching cycle

6:20

is going to be very very

6:23

happy. That bike for able is

6:25

now available with no strings attached

6:27

because they're gonna get a really

6:29

really really good higher and bird

6:31

Tennessee I don't really know. How.

6:34

You're going to be able to get

6:36

a head coach said is better today

6:38

than Mike Vrabel. Yeah.

6:41

I I think this has to do

6:43

with his. Philosophy.

6:46

And Amy Adams Strong. Believes.

6:50

In a collaborative philosophy, that's

6:52

one of the reasons why

6:54

see hired a general manager.

6:57

From. The San Francisco

6:59

Forty Niners. Yeah. I

7:01

N n you know, Miles,

7:04

let's understand exactly what that

7:06

meant. I I think clearly.

7:09

What it meant was that. Ah

7:13

see wanted. A

7:15

more traditional structure of how

7:17

to run a team with

7:19

a strong general manager, an

7:21

influential general manager, And

7:24

I head coach who could

7:26

work with the general manager.

7:30

And I think he the

7:32

last. Twenty. Four months.

7:35

Amy Adams Strong has become it's

7:37

not convinced. See. Things

7:39

that might for a bull. Probably.

7:42

Wants more of a

7:44

significant role in the

7:46

organization. It started when

7:49

very book clearly. Did.

7:51

not approve of the trade

7:53

of aj brown or to

7:55

the philadelphia eagles men there's

7:57

a lot that goes with

7:59

that specific story.

8:03

And one of the things is you remember

8:05

the video from that night when

8:07

the trade was announced, Raible

8:10

clearly couldn't hide his disgust.

8:12

Yeah. And I think there's part

8:14

of this. Honestly, where

8:17

Mike Raible thinks, I'm

8:19

not sure I want to work for a team that

8:21

every time a player gets really good, we don't pay

8:23

him. And that

8:25

is what has happened. And, and Miles,

8:29

you saw on Sunday

8:31

when Derek Henry said goodbye to the

8:34

crowd. Well, I think we

8:36

all sort of thought and look, who knows,

8:38

maybe it's not goodbye. It sure

8:40

seemed like it was goodbye. That's what it

8:42

sounded like. And we're all saying

8:44

to ourselves, I said to myself,

8:47

you know, this is a little bit

8:49

crazy, because even though Derek Henry has

8:52

just turned 30 years old, he

8:55

just broke a 69-yard run against

8:57

a team that was playing for its

8:59

playoff lives. And on that

9:01

69-yard run, he had the seventh

9:04

fastest time of

9:07

any ball carrier running back

9:09

or receiver all season

9:11

in the NFL. This is a 247-pound

9:15

man. And all of

9:17

a sudden were to think, Oh, he's

9:19

not good anymore. Are you crazy? This

9:21

guy still is real good. There

9:23

are some people whose internal

9:26

body clocks and all

9:29

that, you know, he might be

9:31

30 years old, but he

9:33

certainly didn't play this year like

9:35

a 30-year-old, didn't look like a

9:37

30-year-old on Sunday. And

9:40

so, and yet he's saying goodbye to

9:42

the organization. What does that say

9:45

to you? It's that he's already been told, we're

9:47

not going to pay you a competitive rate, you

9:49

know, on the market. So I

9:52

think if I might ravel, I

9:54

want out because I know

9:56

that I know that I'm

10:00

got a good chance of

10:02

getting a very good job on

10:04

this market. And look, Miles, we'll

10:06

get into all of these guys here in a moment.

10:08

But all of a sudden,

10:10

when you look at the coaching market,

10:13

and I don't know whether Bill Belichick breaks free

10:15

or not, but all

10:17

of a sudden you look at the coaching market

10:20

and you've got Mike Rabel, perhaps

10:22

Bill Belichick, and Jim Harbaugh on

10:24

it. That is one of the best

10:26

free agent coaching markets. And you might have

10:28

Mike Tomlin, I doubt it, but you might.

10:31

That's going to be one of the best free agent

10:33

coaching markets, or at least

10:35

one of the best markets for

10:38

every TV network in America

10:40

to go chasing successful coaches,

10:42

who maybe want to take a year off

10:44

or maybe just one out. But

10:48

I think, although the shock of this, I

10:51

mean, here's a guy, Mike

10:54

Rabel, who has

10:57

won 56 games in six

10:59

years at a small market

11:01

franchise. And yeah, he's gone

11:04

13 and 21 the last two years, so that's not good. But he's

11:06

a great coach. And in my opinion, he

11:15

will not have any trouble finding a job.

11:18

Just my thought. I don't

11:20

think he should have any trouble finding a job.

11:22

I mean, this is one of those situations where,

11:24

and I use

11:27

the word PowerShell, and I don't necessarily know

11:29

if that was the right phrase to you,

11:31

but it's sometimes when you have different philosophies,

11:34

then that's where you can say,

11:37

all right, this isn't going to work. Because

11:39

there are people, and I've experienced this in

11:41

my professional life, I'm sure, over your storied

11:43

career period, you have too, where look, you

11:46

have a boss and

11:48

an employee, right? Or two people who

11:50

have to work together, and they don't

11:53

work well together. And like,

11:55

it's nobody's fault. It's

11:57

just, you are Not

11:59

necessarily. Going to Guy philosophically with

12:01

the other person. So many. that's what

12:04

happened here and it became an untenable

12:06

situation. By think we're talking about desirable

12:08

head coaches right now today and you

12:11

mentioned in our Bill Belichick Jim Harbaugh

12:13

Obviously we know those guys are potentially

12:15

on the market right now for sure

12:17

what's going on with New England and

12:20

maybe will have to yell break into

12:22

our day again Peter and do another

12:24

podcast with Bill but I'll check if

12:27

something happens knock on wood but. Of.

12:30

The three that we're talking are right now.

12:32

I would want my grable. And I

12:35

want my grable because I

12:37

feel like he's more about

12:39

what's next then what has

12:41

been, right? Harbaugh? Well, I

12:43

also would not mind hiring

12:45

him. I'd bet somebody

12:47

who. Has not had the

12:50

success of the Nfl for over a

12:52

decade now. Might. That that super

12:54

was in two thousand. Also, somebody is probably

12:56

gonna leave a trail of destruction in his

12:58

past, but. Also. Potentially to

13:00

put to death. and also with ballot

13:03

Sec. I mean you're talking about a

13:05

separate Unirea In and the success has

13:07

not been there since. Twenty eighteen Mean

13:09

you can talk about Twenty Nineteen. Yeah,

13:11

they made it to the play offs.

13:13

Yeah, in Twenty one, they made it

13:15

to the playoffs Mack Jones. But over

13:18

the last few years, the Office of

13:20

Personnel decisions, the Office of Staffing decisions

13:22

sleeve lot to be desired. And.

13:24

I don't know if I am somebody who

13:27

would if I were in in a phone

13:29

which obviously I'm not that. Would. Want

13:31

Bill Bella said to be in

13:33

total control the franchise right? Mike

13:35

Vrabel can come in. We know

13:38

he can coach today, right? We.

13:40

Know that a barricade or is gonna

13:42

leave. Her to the see

13:44

been that's another pretty elite running back.

13:46

another elite offered the fees. You can

13:48

probably say you will come play for

13:50

my grable again. Have any say how

13:52

yeah for the most right? So.

13:55

those are things where if i am

13:57

the los angeles chargers especially Probably I

13:59

might have fallen over myself trying to

14:01

get to the phone To see

14:03

if Mike Vrabel want to come because the

14:05

other thing is Peter if something

14:08

happens with Bill Belichick And I guess we all kind of

14:10

expect that it does in New England That's

14:12

obviously destination number one for Mike Vrabel He

14:15

was just inducted into the Patriots Hall of

14:17

Fame a couple months ago You

14:19

know the crafts have made no secret

14:21

that they feel very strongly about Mike

14:23

Vrabel so if

14:25

you want Mike Vrabel you better get to him before

14:27

the Patriots do and If

14:29

I'm Josh Harris with the commanders Frankly

14:33

if I are Mike Vrabel I don't think I'm

14:35

picking up the phone for David Tepper But if

14:37

I'm Arthur Blank, you know those guys like that's

14:39

something that's a call. I've got to make Miles

14:43

let's quickly segue to Belichick

14:45

and to New England One

14:49

of my thoughts about Belichick

14:51

after his

14:54

news conference on Monday

14:57

is very very simple.

14:59

He said I Am

15:02

under contract. He sounded very much like

15:04

he's willing to be collaborative. I Think

15:07

what he's setting the stage for is

15:10

to telling telling Robert Kraft. I'll

15:13

change my

15:15

offensive staff We will

15:18

move on from Bill O'Brien We

15:20

will bring Josh McDaniel's back and

15:23

I am willing to bring in a

15:25

general manager And the big question is who

15:28

can run the draft if he's willing to

15:31

do that and you're Robert Kraft

15:33

You might think about that. I don't know

15:35

that Jonathan Kraft would think about it. I

15:37

think Jonathan Kraft probably Really

15:39

wants to move on But

15:41

it's Robert Kraft ultimately who's gonna make

15:43

the decision not his son and

15:46

club president Jonathan Kraft It

15:49

will be a decision that they will make together but

15:51

in the end Robert

15:53

Kraft is gonna make this call the

15:56

one thing about this that

15:58

I think probably at

16:00

Midday Tuesday started

16:02

in Robert Craft's

16:04

head is, you know, even

16:07

though we still could

16:10

deal for, even

16:13

though we still could deal in

16:16

this position for

16:19

and make a deal with Mike

16:21

Grable, and it makes more

16:23

sense to move on, then

16:26

what are we doing right now? Should

16:29

we try to cling to the past or do

16:31

we need to make a clean break? Miles,

16:34

I don't know for sure what's going

16:36

to happen, but I believe the Patriots

16:39

are going to make a clean break,

16:41

which would mean that the field

16:43

would include Vrabel

16:46

Belichick and Jim Harbaugh. The

16:48

one thing I would say about Belichick

16:50

is he's not going to be for

16:52

everyone if he's out there. I

16:54

don't know which owners right now are willing

16:57

to give him as much power as he

16:59

is going to want. Okay, that's

17:01

one thing. I think

17:03

the one other thing in all of this

17:06

to consider is

17:09

if Jim Harbaugh wants to come in, and

17:12

he does, to me,

17:14

the job that he would probably

17:16

feel is the best job

17:19

out there would be the

17:21

Los Angeles Chargers, and

17:24

if because they've got Justin Herbert,

17:27

and if I am looking at this, and

17:30

I am, you know,

17:33

the ownership with the Chargers, if I'm

17:35

Dean Spanos, I think I got

17:37

to get a younger guy who's won more recently and

17:40

who's got experience on the offensive side of the

17:42

ball. So that's

17:44

kind of what I think.

17:46

I want to ask you, does

17:50

it seem to you pretty

17:52

logical right now that Vegas

17:54

stays with Antonio Pierce, or

17:57

do you think that they're going to

17:59

want to see sniff around Harbaugh,

18:01

Belichick, and Vrabel? I

18:04

would bet that Mark Davis wants to

18:07

sniff around at least Harbaugh and Vrabel.

18:09

I don't know about Belichick based on

18:11

the way that everything just went down

18:13

with Josh McDaniel's and kind of trying

18:15

to incorporate Patriots west and then it

18:18

didn't work. And then you have somebody

18:20

in Antonio Pierce who basically turned everything

18:22

on its head and made it so

18:24

much better. But I don't know

18:27

if you're really going to get better than Antonio

18:29

Pierce for that particular

18:31

team, you know, the way he

18:33

just totally embodies being a Raider

18:37

and the way he embraced it, you

18:39

know, and the way he really

18:41

just molded that team into something

18:43

that I think is good for

18:45

the NFL when the Raiders are the

18:47

Raiders. They felt like the Raiders this year.

18:50

I think that Mark Davis could, you

18:53

know, try to sniff around the big fish, but

18:55

really, especially after what happened

18:57

with Rich Versace, a couple

18:59

years ago and passing on him and going to McDaniel's

19:01

and all that, and that obviously failed, you

19:03

probably should just stick with what's in your

19:05

building. And, you know, you know Antonio Pierce

19:08

at this point. And I think that they

19:10

would, Antonio Pierce has got to have a

19:12

great plan, you know, to make

19:14

sure that the offensive philosophy is what he wants

19:17

it to be, the defense philosophy, what he wants

19:19

it to be. But based on what

19:21

he did this year with a plan that wasn't his,

19:23

and I find it hard to believe, Peter,

19:26

that they could do much better. Yeah,

19:28

I think that Mark Davis probably

19:31

will sniff around. And look, Antonio

19:33

Pierce, it's not like he

19:35

has much leverage. I think he's gonna have to

19:37

wait. And

19:39

not that there's anything wrong with that. Nobody,

19:42

I always say this about Pro Football Hall

19:44

of Fame voting. Nobody is

19:46

going to ask you when

19:49

you're voting for the Pro Football Hall of

19:51

Fame. People get

19:53

upset about this all the time. Hey, we're

19:55

your first ballot guy? I challenge

19:57

you right now to tell me which.

20:00

ballot, pick a Hall of Famer. Which

20:03

ballot did whoever go in

20:05

on? Nobody knows that they just know

20:07

their buses in the hall. The only time it's made

20:09

a big deal of is when a guy like Chris

20:11

Carter throws a fit when he's not

20:13

a first ballot Hall of Famer. And

20:15

you know, instead of, and

20:19

again, look, I don't want

20:21

to read, litigate this thing. Instead of just saying, hey,

20:23

I didn't get in this year, hopefully I'll get in

20:25

next year. When you pitch a fit

20:28

over not being a first ballot Hall of

20:30

Famer, to me, you're insulting the five guys

20:32

who that year got in, or however

20:35

many got in. I think it's create,

20:37

I think it's, I think it's

20:40

poor form, honestly. Anyway,

20:43

Miles, I'm going to give

20:45

you one opinion about Washington. And then I

20:47

want you to give me one opinion about

20:49

Carolina, because neither of us have any idea

20:52

where either one of those things are going to go. But

20:54

I'll say this about Washington. I

20:58

think that Josh Harris, the owner

21:00

of the Washington commanders, is

21:03

so wide open on this process. I

21:05

was told by somebody there that

21:08

Josh Harris, and I quote, has

21:10

absolutely no idea, end quote, who

21:12

he's going to hire, which is,

21:14

I think the best way

21:16

to go into a coaching search. You

21:20

go into the search for a GM and

21:22

a coach, like, okay, let's hear

21:24

what everybody has to say. And then let's

21:27

sit down and figure it out. That is

21:29

a good way to be right now. I

21:31

have to believe that they

21:35

could be interested in

21:37

talking to Bill Belichick, who grew up

21:40

in nearby Annapolis, is

21:42

a huge fan of football history. And

21:45

I think there would be

21:47

something good in trying

21:49

to revive a team

21:51

in the NFC East, the

21:54

Washington commanders. Give me

21:56

your two cents on Carolina, because I

21:58

have absolutely no idea. what

22:00

they'll do? I don't really know

22:02

what they'll do either but yeah I I suspect

22:04

it might be a really tough search for them

22:07

both or you know somebody to

22:09

run the football program as GM, president of

22:11

football operations whatever you want to call it

22:13

and then also for head coach I mean

22:16

it's not a desirable job based on

22:18

who you're working for and the situation unless

22:20

you are really in love with Bryce

22:22

Young and you feel like you can implement

22:24

a fantastic you know offensive

22:26

philosophy for him bring in the right

22:29

kind of guys on the offensive line

22:31

and to coach the offensive line that's

22:33

a really really tough spot so this

22:36

to me is one of those

22:38

where they might be waiting a while to

22:41

figure out who exactly they're going to hire

22:43

because that's if you have options you

22:45

know like I said if you're Mike Rabel and

22:48

that phone call comes I think

22:50

I'd rather go go do

22:52

television you know if there's no other

22:55

better situation than go to that particular

22:57

job for this year because something better

22:59

is going to open next year than

23:01

that job. I'm not going

23:03

to the Carolina Panthers if I'm any

23:05

but any of these guys I mean

23:08

any of the high-profile guys anyway I

23:10

just I just don't trust it I

23:12

don't trust the owner I just

23:14

don't trust it I like Bryce Young I

23:16

really do but I just do not trust

23:19

that organization right now. Miles Simmons we

23:21

are now going to segue to

23:24

our nicer

23:26

audio and to

23:28

our nicer sets and we're

23:30

going to right now segue

23:34

to our playoff preview

23:36

right here on the

23:38

Peter King podcast. I think

23:42

this is a really interesting playoff

23:44

field because I think it

23:46

could be the year where

23:48

an upstart not necessarily shocks

23:50

the world but surprises the

23:52

world and I think

23:54

there there are two very interesting

23:57

teams in the NFC

23:59

the Rams and the Packers. And

24:02

in the AFC, I'm

24:04

not sure the Steelers can win going

24:06

up to Buffalo. And

24:11

I also think there is, I don't

24:13

even think you'd call the

24:15

Browns an upstart team. And,

24:19

you know, as far as the six seed

24:21

Miami, I just think Miami's lost too much.

24:25

Miami goes to Kansas City in

24:29

the Tyreek Hill revenge game. But

24:31

the question is, after

24:34

having struggled on offense so much at

24:36

times this year, including Sunday night against

24:38

Buffalo in a game they had to

24:41

have and couldn't get a team

24:44

that struggled so much on offense, how was it

24:46

going to react to playing in

24:48

zero degree weather, whatever insanely

24:50

cold night, it's going to

24:52

be in Kansas City. But Miles,

24:55

I'm going to give you my upstart team.

24:59

And then I'm going to ask you for yours. And

25:01

let's just have 30 seconds each on

25:03

why there are upstart team. I say the

25:05

Rams, not necessarily, I

25:08

don't necessarily think they will beat

25:10

Detroit. I just think that's going

25:12

to be a great football game.

25:15

And the Rams, this has nothing

25:17

to do with the Matthew Stafford,

25:20

I'll show you game. Matthew

25:22

Stafford is not mad at the

25:25

Detroit Lions. He's grateful that

25:27

he asked the Detroit Lions for a trade and

25:29

they traded him. So this

25:32

is not Matthew Stafford. This is Matthew

25:34

Stafford coming back to Detroit with love,

25:37

not with hatred

25:39

or vengeance. But

25:42

I just think the Rams

25:44

interest me so much because

25:47

of all their rookie and

25:49

second year player weaponry, both

25:52

on offense and defense. And

25:55

I just think they're a fascinating

25:57

team. And look, if they beat beat

26:01

Detroit, they're

26:04

going to go into San Francisco, probably.

26:07

They're going to go into San Francisco. And

26:10

I think that is going to be a hard game for the

26:12

49ers. But what say you,

26:14

who's your upstart team? Well,

26:17

I do like the Rams. Um, and I would

26:19

say about this matchup, it's not necessarily about, you

26:21

know, Matthew staff or going back to Detroit, but

26:23

there are so many different tentacles

26:25

within those two organizations. Right. I

26:28

mean, from Brad Holmes, general manager,

26:30

he came from the Los Angeles

26:32

Rams and got other people who

26:34

were in that front office that

26:36

are now in the Detroit front

26:38

office. So you got those connections.

26:41

Then of course, Jared goth, there

26:43

may not be revenge for Matthew

26:45

Stafford, but having covered Jared day

26:47

to day for several years, I know that

26:49

that dude got an edge to them and

26:51

there's a part of him that would absolutely

26:54

love to stick it to the Rams and

26:57

beat them in the postseason. Right. And

26:59

Sean McVay, given up on him, the

27:01

reorganization, all these different things. So that's

27:03

another element of it. So I think

27:05

that's a great game generally. Um, I

27:08

would turn to the AFC for like

27:10

an upstart team. And honestly, I would

27:12

say the Houston Texans, I think they

27:14

are so dangerous. And Peter, the

27:17

way that CJ Stroud came out,

27:19

those, that absolute bomb to start

27:21

the game against the Colts, man,

27:23

that was as impressive as a

27:25

throw as I've seen this year.

27:27

I mean, I, you

27:29

just go back and you drop and you plant your

27:31

back foot and you just yak that thing down the

27:33

field as he did. I mean, and it hits the

27:35

receiver in stride. I mean, I, it's

27:37

amazing. And what D'Amico Ryan's has done

27:40

with that team to come out and

27:42

be a division winner in year one

27:44

after the absolute slog that that organization

27:47

has been through over the last several

27:49

years. I, I find it to be

27:51

really, really impressive. Nick Cassario did a

27:53

great job also getting well Anderson, right?

27:56

After drafting CJ Stratton, we don't necessarily

27:58

talk all that much about. Will

28:00

Anderson, but he's had a really, really

28:02

solid year as a first year defensive

28:04

end. So, you know, as

28:07

somebody who grew up loving watching the

28:09

Cleveland Browns and that I would rather

28:11

have seen the Browns play Jacksonville than,

28:14

you know, having to go to Houston

28:16

and play CJ Strav because look, we

28:18

saw a Jacksonville, well, they have a

28:20

lot of flaws, which is why they

28:23

lost to the Titans. But man, I

28:25

think that when you

28:27

have a team that is young, sometimes they

28:29

don't know what they don't know. And you

28:31

got D'Amico Ryan's who has experienced coaching in

28:33

the playoffs, not necessarily as a head coach,

28:35

but obviously with San Francisco did a lot

28:37

of things there. That

28:39

team is dangerous, right? I think they can beat

28:42

the Browns. I think they can go to Baltimore

28:44

and keep it very competitive, maybe not win, you

28:47

know, if that's where they end up going, but

28:49

they can also do some good thing. If Kansas

28:51

City happens to lose, they got to go to

28:53

Buffalo. I think they're dangerous there too. So I'm

28:55

really interested to see how Houston handles things this

28:57

week. That

29:00

leads us into our games of the

29:03

weekend. Okay. There are six

29:06

games, two Saturday, three Sunday,

29:09

one Monday night. Though I

29:11

don't know if that, if Philadelphia

29:13

Tampa can be called a

29:16

game because

29:18

Philadelphia is the most collapsible

29:21

team or the most collapsing

29:24

team entering the playoffs that

29:26

there has been in years. Anyway,

29:30

I want each of us to pick now

29:32

and I'll start our game of the weekend.

29:35

And I am going to pick

29:37

game one of the six Cleveland

29:39

at Houston. Look,

29:42

I think I

29:45

would say that of

29:47

all the units on both sides of the ball,

29:49

when relatively healthy, all

29:52

the units in the league, there'd be 64 offensive

29:55

and defensive units combined. Okay.

29:59

Number one. and right now probably

30:01

is the Cleveland Browns and

30:04

on defense. And when

30:06

I look at the Cleveland Browns

30:08

on defense, one of

30:10

the things that I think is

30:13

that they're going to make it

30:15

very difficult for CJ Stroud

30:17

to have a moment's peace in this

30:20

game. Their secondary is going

30:22

to make it difficult. They're banged up a

30:24

little bit, but their secondary is going to

30:26

make it difficult to

30:29

give CJ

30:32

Stroud a lot of real open looks.

30:34

So I think that this

30:37

is going to be a fun

30:39

game because CJ Stroud is also

30:41

going to be a huge challenge

30:43

for the Cleveland Browns in

30:46

a weather-controlled atmosphere.

30:50

I like both of these teams. I

30:53

love both of their stories. In

30:55

Miles, I'm going to that game on Saturday,

30:58

and I'm going to go to two games this weekend. So

31:02

I had my choice on Saturday. I

31:04

either go to Houston to see

31:07

Cleveland Houston, or you go to

31:09

see Tua versus Mahomes in

31:11

prime time. Most

31:13

people would say, geez, you

31:16

want to go see Cleveland and

31:19

Houston, this 5'4 matchup, all

31:23

that. I just said, damn right

31:25

I do. They're new. They're interesting.

31:28

They're kind of fascinating stories. Whoever

31:30

wins that game is really an

31:33

interesting story. I'm not saying, I

31:36

think Miami at Kansas

31:38

City could be very, very interesting. With

31:40

Tyreek Hill going back, the Dolphins coming

31:42

off such a downer of a game,

31:45

the Dolphins trying to find pass rush

31:47

from somewhere, but I think I'm most

31:49

fascinated by Cleveland at

31:51

Houston. What's your game? Well,

31:53

Peter, I know why you don't want to go to

31:55

Kansas City. It's supposed to be a low of minus

31:57

nine down there on Saturday. I'm

32:00

sorry. No,

32:03

you know what, though? I'm actually going to

32:05

pick the game that you just said may

32:07

not be a game because I'm endlessly fascinated

32:09

by it. And like, you know, we kind

32:11

of talked about the Rams and Lions and

32:13

I could pick that and I am really

32:15

interested in that one. But I'm telling Eagles

32:17

Bucks, this is a strange

32:20

matchup because these two teams have basically

32:22

lived into the playoffs. I mean, it's

32:24

weird, right? You get the Bucks. All

32:26

they needed to do was have a

32:28

good showing. They could have beaten

32:30

the Saints at home and they would have clinched

32:32

the division right then. And then they could have

32:34

done whatever they needed to do against Carolina Panthers

32:37

in week 18, but they lost to the Saints,

32:39

right? They did not play very well. Baker

32:42

Mayfield gets broke up a little bit and

32:44

then they go to Charlotte and I watched

32:46

all that game. Peter, they did not look

32:48

very good against the Carolina Panthers defensively.

32:50

Yeah, they had a great game, but

32:53

everybody has a great game defensively. Against

32:56

the Carolina Panthers, unless you're the Green

32:58

Bay Packers, apparently. So that

33:00

to me is why this is so fascinating. You've

33:02

got two teams that are not playing well, right?

33:04

You got Baker Mayfield, who has not played well

33:07

over the last couple of weeks. He's dealing with

33:09

injury and you've got the Eagles who have just

33:11

absolutely fallen apart. I don't

33:13

know who's going to win this game. I don't know what

33:15

this game is going to look like. And

33:17

that's part of why I'm so fascinated by it

33:19

because if the Bucks offense can

33:22

just get a little bit going, right? Against

33:24

that defense, which has not been very good,

33:26

no matter who's calling the plays or coordinating

33:28

it, what have you, then

33:30

we can really see the Bucks get into

33:33

the divisional round. I don't necessarily think they do very well

33:35

in the divisional round, but I don't really think the Eagles

33:37

would do very well in the divisional round either. So

33:40

this is kind of this weird matchup between

33:42

two teams that really need to bounce back

33:44

in some way. One of the teams will

33:46

win and I am just really fascinated to

33:49

see who it's going to be. Miles,

33:55

I'm going to end segment one

33:57

of the podcast with my...

34:00

I'm just saying note

34:03

of the playoffs. Okay. And

34:05

I'm just saying that

34:07

Mike McCarthy better not lose to the Green

34:09

Bay Packers. Because

34:14

Jerry Jones has

34:16

already said, well, let's see what

34:18

happens in the playoffs when asked about the job

34:20

security of his head coach. So

34:23

I'm just saying, and I've

34:25

said this for a long time. If

34:28

Bill Belichick is on the street, remember 21

34:31

years ago, everybody said, oh,

34:33

why is Jerry talking to Bill Parcells? Parcells

34:36

will never go work for Jerry. This

34:39

just in. He did. And

34:42

even if he asked Parcells off the

34:44

record these days, he'll say, I

34:46

enjoyed working for Jerry because he did. Anyway,

34:50

Miles, we're going to head into a short break and

34:53

then you're going to hear from Brad Holmes, our guest

34:55

on the podcast this week. Strong

34:57

candidate for executive of the year has

34:59

done a great job in

35:01

his three seasons as the

35:04

architect of the Detroit Lions. And

35:06

then in the back half of

35:08

our podcast, we're going to talk about Josh

35:11

Allen. We're going to talk about

35:13

the Buffalo Bills. We're going to talk

35:15

about defensive player of the year. And

35:17

we're going to talk about Jamis Winston

35:20

versus Dennis Allen. We'll

35:23

be back. Happy

35:25

to be joined on the podcast this

35:27

week by Brad Holmes, the general

35:30

manager of the NFC North

35:32

Champion, Detroit Lions. And

35:35

Brad, I've got to ask you first, what

35:38

does it mean to you when

35:41

you're introduced as the general

35:43

manager of the NFC North

35:45

Champion? Detroit

35:47

Lions, which has

35:50

not nobody's been able to say that for 30

35:52

years. Yeah,

35:54

it's a great feeling. Just

35:58

it goes back to the point where we're going to talk about the It's

36:01

historical, obviously, but, you

36:03

know, when me and Dan

36:05

first got here in 21, you know,

36:09

those are the one of the things that

36:11

we, you know, discussed at length, you know,

36:14

with ownership, you know, in terms of how

36:16

long it had been. And

36:18

it's up on the walls in

36:20

our team meeting room about the

36:23

last time. And, you know, so it's a

36:25

lot of been

36:28

documented stories about that and

36:30

what we're trying to achieve.

36:32

So to finally achieve that,

36:34

it's a great feeling. But

36:37

I will say after it

36:39

happened, though, it

36:42

felt like it was very short-lived

36:44

because we were only able to

36:47

celebrate it maybe, I don't even

36:49

know if it was a full 24 hours that

36:51

we were able to really enjoy

36:53

and celebrate it because we

36:56

knew that we had so much

36:58

more that we wanted to accomplish

37:00

and continue the mission. So

37:02

yeah, it's like you talk about it for years

37:04

and years and now you get there and it's

37:07

like, no, there's more meat left on

37:09

the bone. And so and I

37:11

thought Dan did a great job communicating that

37:13

message to the team. And

37:15

now we're just moving on and trying to see if we can get

37:17

more. Brad,

37:21

I think what has been interesting about your tenure

37:23

is that in 2021, when

37:25

you took over

37:29

this team and you

37:31

took over the personnel side of this team

37:33

and being the architect of

37:35

this team, in essence, since

37:38

then, by my

37:40

count, you have 17 of

37:42

your 22 starters now are

37:46

new. 17

37:48

players are those who you and

37:51

your staff and Dan Campbell have

37:53

imported since you took over

37:55

in January of 21. And

37:58

so it's. pretty hard to

38:01

do something like that in

38:04

any case to totally rebuild a

38:06

team. But to rebuild a

38:08

team into a division

38:10

champion, that means

38:13

you had to have had

38:15

some big hits on

38:18

guys who, you know, they're not all

38:20

Jamison Williams. They're not all high first

38:23

round picks. You have

38:25

to hit on a bunch of

38:27

day three picks or, or late

38:29

day two picks in order for

38:31

this to happen. And

38:33

I thought maybe it might be

38:35

educational for people to be able

38:38

to hear. Let's just

38:40

take one player as

38:42

an example. And the player

38:44

who I'd like to ask you about

38:47

is Amman Ra St. Brown. He was

38:49

in your first draft. He was

38:51

the 17th wide

38:54

receiver pick. And

38:56

in the three years since he has

38:58

been on your team, he's caught over 300

39:01

balls and not that this

39:03

means a hill of beans, but

39:05

he's going to be one of my,

39:07

uh, all pro first

39:10

team wide receivers, the 17th

39:12

receiver pick in

39:15

the draft that year. Take me

39:17

into the draft process of

39:19

Amman Ra St. Brown. Yeah.

39:22

I appreciate you giving that recognition,

39:24

a recognition to St. Brown. He's

39:27

obviously very deserving of being on

39:29

that first team, but you know,

39:32

first of all, say this, when

39:34

you embark on a build, like as

39:37

what we did, every

39:39

single pick matters. Like

39:42

when we start off, we were never

39:44

in a position to throw a darts

39:47

on a late round pick. We were

39:49

not in a position to see

39:51

if we got lucky with an

39:54

undrafted free agent. Like we, it

39:56

had to be very intentional in

39:58

every single phase. of

40:01

the process, but

40:03

specifically with St. Brown is

40:06

it really, you know, I was with

40:08

the Los Angeles Rams and St. Louis

40:10

Rams for 18 years before

40:13

I got here to Detroit. And,

40:16

you know, we started

40:18

doing work on St. Brown, you

40:20

know, when I was under less

40:22

need with the Rams that

40:25

fall. And when

40:27

I saw them at the time, we had

40:29

Cooper Cupp on our team. We had

40:32

Robert Woods on our team. And

40:34

those guys were about what we were,

40:36

what that team was all about in

40:39

terms of they did it the

40:41

right way. They were tough. They

40:43

were detailed route runners. They were

40:45

pros. They worked hard. They

40:48

had a killer instinct about them.

40:50

They were very smart, high-level intelligence.

40:52

Were they the most physically gifted?

40:55

Were they going to win the

40:57

combine and be in all the

40:59

news? No, but

41:02

that's why those guys were so

41:05

productive. And so when I

41:07

looked at St. Brown, I was like, this guy

41:09

reminds me of a lot of these guys that

41:11

at the time that we had with

41:14

Cooper Cupp and Robert Woods and

41:16

those guys. So that's why when

41:18

I first got here in 21,

41:20

he always, in react to our

41:22

assistant general manager, he was with

41:25

me as well with the Rams.

41:27

And we both were like, that's

41:30

the guy. That's the guy. And

41:32

he had to win over a lot

41:34

of people because during the process, initially,

41:36

it's like, again, he didn't run the

41:38

fast 40 time. He didn't have

41:41

all the

41:43

sexy measurables that everybody just

41:45

kind of salivate over. But

41:47

he had those intangibles that

41:50

we salivate over. And

41:52

so that's how we had a good feeling that

41:54

he was going to be the right fit. And

41:57

we wanted to establish a core.

42:00

that we could truly build upon and

42:02

be foundational pieces. And that's why that

42:04

first draft was so important, was we

42:06

had identified the right guys. We had

42:08

to make sure the Penaise Sewells was

42:10

the right guy. We had to make

42:12

sure that St. Brown was the right

42:15

guy. We had to make sure that

42:17

Alimah Neil was the right guy. We

42:19

had to make sure that Melafon will,

42:21

that Derek Barnes. We had to make

42:23

sure those guys were the right guys.

42:26

And it was very important to

42:28

us. But that's how the St. Brown, that's

42:31

how the St. Brown process went. And

42:33

I'll never forget that it was

42:35

a lot of, let's

42:38

call it pressure on

42:40

us to acquire a wide receiver,

42:43

that draft. And we

42:47

didn't have a lot of resources in free agency

42:49

that year. I think we

42:51

ended up getting Rashard

42:53

Parriman in free agency. We

42:56

just weren't able to acquire a lot of

42:58

big money guys. And we

43:00

had Kenny Gallivay

43:03

that we did not bring back. So we didn't

43:05

have a lot at that wide receiver course. So

43:07

there was a lot of pressure on us to

43:09

find one. And it was like, oh, you're not

43:11

getting one in the first one. And I get

43:13

one in the second one. And I get one

43:15

in the whole time. I'll never forget, I

43:17

think of draft, one of those draft beatles

43:19

even came out where Sheila asked me, what

43:23

are we going to do if we don't get a wide

43:25

receiver? Because I think we were in

43:27

the third round or whatever. And

43:30

we really wanted to lean McNeil as well.

43:32

And so we thought that

43:34

the depth of the nose

43:36

tackle, D-tackle position was

43:38

a lot less than it

43:40

was that receiver. And

43:43

we just had a good feeling that that

43:45

St. Brown was going to be there. And

43:48

you guys kind of had a good idea. Can I just

43:50

ask you? Yeah. I

43:53

want to ask you something about, I talked

43:56

to St. Brown this past

43:58

summer at training camp. And

44:01

one of the things he told me was that

44:03

after day two of the draft that

44:07

he and his family were just

44:09

so shocked that he hadn't been picked.

44:12

Borderline despondent. But

44:14

he said it basically, and I'm going to

44:16

paraphrase him, instead of wallowing in his grief

44:19

and saying woe is me, he went

44:23

back to the home where he

44:25

was staying and he took out the

44:28

JUGS machine at 11 o'clock at

44:30

night on the West Coast. And

44:33

he had one of his brothers, I

44:35

think equinimious, feed over 200

44:38

balls into the JUGS machine.

44:41

And he was determined that night

44:43

that he was not going to let

44:45

the NFL dictate

44:48

his career, that he was

44:50

going to dictate his career.

44:52

And so, but and

44:54

that is the thing I want to

44:56

ask you about. You've got a lot

44:59

of players who maybe are not exactly

45:01

like that, but who

45:03

have this gene like Melofon

45:05

Woo, you know, everybody thought he's just

45:07

an injury guy, you know, he's never

45:10

going to be his guy. And now

45:12

this year, you know, he's playing

45:14

like one of the last month playing like

45:16

one of the best safeties in football. I

45:18

want to ask you about let's

45:20

use St. Brown the person

45:22

and you know, let's forget

45:25

about how good a football player he is. But

45:28

what about St. Brown, the person

45:30

illustrates the kind of players who

45:32

you want on this team? St.

45:36

Brown, the person is why he's had the

45:38

success that he's had. And that's why he's

45:40

been so productive as a

45:42

football players, because who he is as a

45:44

person, he has a

45:47

special wiring about him. And

45:50

that roots all the way down to his

45:53

childhood, you know, his dad was, you know,

45:56

a Olympic lifter. And, you know, it's like

45:58

every single time I. I would call him

46:00

in the off season. He'd

46:02

answer the phone, what's up,

46:04

Brad? And I'm like,

46:06

what are you doing? He's like, it's working

46:09

out. Like, it's just one, but it's

46:11

funny you brought up that video on draft

46:13

night. I saw that video

46:15

come out on social media when he was

46:18

on the judge machine. And I knew about

46:20

his work ethic, and I

46:22

knew he was a top-notch, intangible

46:24

guy. But when I saw that video, I

46:26

was like, oh, that's cute. They

46:28

kind of did that thing. No,

46:31

that is who he is. That's

46:34

every single day after practice,

46:36

he's catching too much balls off

46:38

the judge, still to this day.

46:41

Like, that was not a draft

46:44

weekend kind of social media. No,

46:47

no, no, that is who he is. So there's

46:49

a question. The reason why he

46:51

is who he is is because who he

46:53

is as a person and how he's wired.

46:55

And he's very smart. He has a chip

46:57

on his shoulder like no other. And

47:00

he's got this attitude of like, he's

47:03

a walk-on receiver. You know

47:05

what I mean? He's got the right attitude.

47:07

And that's what we're all about as a

47:09

team. We're talking about grit and

47:12

perseverance and earning it and doing it

47:14

the right way. St. Brown

47:16

is that. And that's why he was such

47:18

a foundational piece and a very important piece

47:21

to start off our drafting and

47:23

our franchise. Brad,

47:26

as you look forward now to the

47:28

postseason, I wonder

47:31

when you look at your team right

47:33

now, what

47:36

are you proud of of

47:38

what has been accomplished so far and

47:42

now looking ahead what you

47:44

hope to accomplish in this postseason? You

47:49

know, I would say most proud of is, I

47:52

would say the growth in

47:55

patience that was practiced because

47:58

you kind of set her out to game. Dan

48:01

and I did it our way

48:04

and we knew the task

48:06

that we had ahead of us and

48:09

we did not really care what anybody

48:11

else thought or how anybody else was

48:13

doing it. We had a specific plan

48:15

of how we wanted to do it.

48:18

And there were some dark times early on

48:20

and we had to persevere and get

48:23

through those times. I

48:25

do think that the patience

48:27

and the growth and the

48:29

collaboration of everybody sticking together

48:31

is coming to fruition now.

48:35

When I say patience, it's not being

48:38

prisoners of the moment when

48:41

53 cut down is coming. You

48:46

don't have to trade away these guys for

48:49

late draft picks. We're

48:51

going to keep these guys because we're going to be

48:53

depending on them. Not being a prisoner

48:55

of the moment at the trade

48:57

deadline. Like no, we're going

48:59

to do what we need to do

49:01

for us and that's to acquire a

49:04

Donovan People's Jones. That's what the

49:06

Detroit Lions needed to do. And

49:09

so just sticking to our plan

49:11

and doing it our way, but I couldn't be

49:14

any prouder than the

49:16

players and the coaches for

49:18

all their sacrifice and everything that they put into

49:21

it. And

49:23

ultimately the city of Detroit because they've

49:25

been starving for this forever and they've

49:30

been sticking with us through

49:32

thick and thin. And

49:35

I'm just so proud of everybody.

49:41

For 19 and one to

49:43

start off the

49:46

Campbell-Holmes tenure, 19

49:48

and 7 cents heading

49:51

into the playoffs. It's

49:53

going to be a lot of fun to watch. Brad Holmes,

49:55

thanks so much for joining me

49:57

and for telling a few

49:59

tales. about what has made your team good. Thanks

50:03

for having me, Peter. Back

50:06

on the podcast, Miles, you probably

50:08

know, I was in Miami Gardens,

50:10

Florida on Sunday night. I

50:13

covered Miami's loss to

50:15

the Buffalo Bills. And,

50:17

you know,

50:19

I'm going to say

50:21

just two things about the state of

50:23

each one of these teams. The

50:27

Miami Dolphins started

50:29

this game by intercepting Josh

50:31

Allen twice in the red

50:34

zone. Then they

50:37

recovered a fumble when Christian

50:39

Wilkins basically stole the ball

50:42

from Josh Allen. And

50:45

that came just after

50:48

Josh Allen toward the end of the first

50:51

half, ended a drive with no timeouts and

50:53

no time left on the clock by throwing

50:55

the ball short of the end zone. And

50:59

the Bills ended the first half at the

51:01

one yard line without the ability to even

51:03

kick a field goal. With

51:05

all those things having happened, the

51:09

Buffalo Bills still won the game.

51:11

Miami's offense sputtered and started to

51:14

a ton of a lower through

51:16

a terrible interception into double coverage

51:18

at a vital time in

51:20

the second half to Bill's safety

51:23

Taylor wrap. And so

51:26

I'm not really high on the Dolphins

51:28

coming into the playoffs. In addition, they

51:31

will have none of their top

51:33

four pass rushers that they

51:36

started the season with. And that's after Andrew

51:38

Van Ginkel was lost,

51:41

almost certainly for this weekend,

51:44

with a foot injury against Buffalo.

51:46

I can't figure out

51:48

how they're going to play well and

51:50

win that game in Kansas City.

51:52

But then again, that is

51:54

why they play the games. Want

51:56

to talk about the Bills for a moment. time

52:00

with Josh Allen five minutes

52:02

maybe after the game and we

52:04

talked a little bit about the

52:06

Josh Allen experience and he said I want

52:09

the ball in my hands at the end

52:11

of every game and

52:13

that's what it comes down to you saw how

52:15

he converted the 3rd and 13 with

52:18

a run that reminds me of

52:20

you know if you're the star of your high

52:22

school team and you're the quarterback and you've got

52:24

a score to touchdown you got to convert what

52:26

do you do coach calls in

52:29

a play whatever the play is

52:31

you say okay I got that and then you

52:33

just simply take the ball and you run for

52:35

it because you know you're the best player on

52:38

your team and you trust

52:40

yourself to make that play and

52:43

that's who Josh Allen is right now and

52:45

of course he converted 3rd and

52:47

13 by barreling out there and and

52:50

that is what you're gonna get with

52:52

the Buffalo Bills I'm in

52:54

for that though because I

52:56

think he's so talented and I

52:59

think he's so smart he does take some

53:01

risks but I do think

53:03

here's a guy who I really trust to

53:05

win late in games I don't think they're

53:07

gonna have a huge problem with Pittsburgh you

53:10

never know but I

53:12

like the Josh Allen experience heading

53:14

into the playoffs what say you

53:17

I think they would have more of a problem with Pittsburgh

53:19

if TJ Watt were really gonna be available and healthy and

53:21

it's only gonna look like that's going to be the case

53:24

I mean the Josh Allen turnovers

53:26

are always the thing that bothers me but you're

53:28

right that when the game is on the line

53:30

he's the guy that you want to have the

53:33

ball don't you're saying that it reminded me of

53:35

when I was playing high school football and we

53:37

had a best player like that and there was

53:39

a game where he was running for touchdowns I

53:41

think you might have thrown for a touchdown and

53:44

he took this kickback toward the end of the

53:46

game like 96 yards for touchdown we needed

53:48

to go down and score and in the

53:50

local paper they wrote you know he would

53:52

have driven the bus home too if he

53:54

had his CDL right that's the kind of

53:56

player Josh Allen is it absolutely he will

53:58

drive the bus right? And that's the kind

54:01

of guy that like you said, like you said, like you said, you

54:03

want him to have the ball in his hands because at a

54:05

certain point he's just going to make a play. That

54:07

certain 13 run was absolutely unbelievable. And

54:09

as soon as he took off, I'm like, man,

54:11

he's going to get this. It doesn't matter how

54:13

many guys are going to be in his way.

54:15

He's going to find a way. That's the thing

54:17

I respect about Josh Allen. He does tend to

54:20

find a way. However, when you

54:22

throw interceptions, right? When you

54:24

are just kind of trying to make a

54:26

player, when you lose the football, when

54:29

you're on a sack, those are the kinds

54:31

of things that can really doom you against

54:33

better teams. And I thought Miami was a

54:35

better team, right? Miami, I felt lost this

54:37

game on offense. When you don't

54:39

score anything in the second half, you

54:41

can't move the ball. They had one

54:43

first down until their final drive on

54:45

offense in the entire second half. And

54:47

it was tongue-of-eye low with throwing inaccurate

54:49

passes. Tyree kill drops one, you know,

54:52

Braxton Barrios doesn't necessarily run the route

54:54

Navy at the right depth or whatever

54:56

it happens to be, but he can't

54:58

spin out of a tackle. I mean,

55:00

you're not getting the plays. You're not

55:02

doing enough. That's to me why

55:04

the Miami dolphins lost that game. And you

55:06

will allow Josh Allen to be able to

55:08

take over and drive the bus. So I'm

55:10

really disappointed in Miami. I understand that they're

55:12

dealing with injuries. And if they don't have

55:15

guys like a Jalen waddle, like a most

55:17

are like, you know, a Xavier and Howard

55:19

too. And it's hard for

55:21

me, even as bad as Kansas city has

55:23

looked throughout the course of the season, really

55:26

hard for me to see them going into,

55:28

you know, Sub-Zero windshield and playing

55:30

a really competitive game with Kansas city

55:32

Chiefs. I mean, the only way that

55:34

happens is if Kansas city turns the

55:36

ball over, they just keep dropping

55:38

passes, which, you know, that

55:41

could certainly happen too. So

55:45

Miles, another bad segue

55:47

by me. I'm going to talk

55:50

for a minute about defensive player

55:52

of the year. And

55:55

so I've been doing,

55:58

I've been one of the voters

56:00

for the association. Press postseason awards

56:02

for a long time. I don't

56:04

know how many years. But over

56:08

the years, every year there are some

56:10

hard choices to make. And

56:12

I'm not saying this is the hardest choice to make,

56:15

but this Defensive Player of the Year

56:17

vote is going to

56:20

be exceedingly difficult this

56:22

year. And I'll just

56:25

put a little exclamation point

56:27

about why. So

56:30

I try to look at analytics

56:32

and stats and time

56:37

to rush the quarterback, things like

56:39

that, some of the modern things.

56:42

So I've been gathering some

56:45

statistical data

56:48

over the last 24 hours knowing

56:50

that I've got to make this decision. I'll

56:53

cast my vote sometime this week

56:55

to the Associated Press and

56:59

I'll just underline how

57:01

this is so tough. Pro

57:03

football focus is

57:06

one of the groups that does pressures,

57:10

quarterback hits, hurries,

57:12

sacks, things like that. And in

57:15

overall pressures, which is sacks,

57:17

hits, and hurries, overall

57:19

pressures after this

57:21

season, Miles Garrett of

57:23

the Cleveland Browns has 86. TJ

57:27

Watt of the Pittsburgh Steelers has

57:29

86. And

57:32

that just underlines how

57:34

difficult a decision this is,

57:38

along with the fact that Micah Parsons has

57:40

103. And

57:42

so there's a lot of

57:44

things that will go into

57:47

this. But

57:49

on the surface, and I and

57:51

believe me, you have to consider

57:53

Nick Bosa, you have to consider

57:55

Max Crosby. I think

57:57

there are five borderline

58:00

incredible candidates this

58:03

year and I

58:05

don't know which way I'm gonna go right

58:07

now. My eyes

58:09

from watching the year, my

58:12

eyes really favor Miles

58:15

Garrett and

58:17

one play just stands out

58:19

in my mind and it's not a sack, it's

58:21

not a quarterback pressure. It's

58:24

when he jumped over the center at

58:27

Indianapolis and smothered

58:29

a field goal attempt. And

58:33

first of

58:35

all, the

58:37

leap in that

58:40

thing was ridiculous and

58:42

to then smothered a field goal,

58:44

it's just I just think

58:46

Miles Garrett is special but you know what

58:49

I think TJ Watts is special too. I

58:51

love Parsons so I don't know. Miles, I'm

58:54

not saying make my decision for me but

58:57

Miles make my decision for me. Well,

59:00

you know, when you said what you

59:02

said about your eyes, right, and I think

59:04

that sometimes that's just what we've got to

59:06

go by because statistics tell us different things

59:08

because and if we were going to go

59:10

off pure numbers then I don't

59:12

know that anybody would really choose Lamar

59:14

Jackson for MVP, right, but our eyes

59:17

tell us when we watch the games,

59:19

Lamar Jackson is the best player in the

59:21

league this year. I mean, and if you

59:23

watch it and you see it, there's absolutely

59:25

no doubt about that. So I don't

59:28

see any problem with going with your eyes

59:30

there. You know, I think that Miles Garrett

59:32

has to fight through so much just to

59:34

try to make one play, right, and you

59:37

can say, oh, the sack numbers aren't fair

59:39

and it's this and it's that, and that's

59:41

not everything. I think when you go into

59:43

pressures and you see what he's done, what

59:45

TJ Watts done, as you cited Micah Parsons

59:48

and all these different guys, you know,

59:50

they make incredible plays on a down

59:52

to down basis. And so you could

59:54

use that. You could say, well, Micah

59:56

Parsons was the best defensive player on

59:58

a team that. ended up with

1:00:01

the two seed, right? And that means that

1:00:03

he may have had more of an impact

1:00:05

in some way. But then you look at

1:00:07

the Cleveland Browns and you say, well, that

1:00:09

team won 11 games. And

1:00:11

you go through four quarterbacks that won games, right?

1:00:14

Five, if you count everybody that started with Jeff

1:00:16

Driscoll on Sunday and you're saying, well,

1:00:19

you know, how else did they do that

1:00:21

aside from really great defense and who leads

1:00:23

that defense? But Miles Garrett, TJ Watt, 19

1:00:25

sacks. I mean, that's ridiculous.

1:00:27

And what he does on a play-to-play

1:00:30

basis, down-to-down basis, like I said, they're

1:00:32

going up to Buffalo. They don't have

1:00:34

that guy. Man, that really diminishes their

1:00:36

chances. So I understand why anybody would

1:00:38

vote for TJ Watt, too. So this

1:00:40

is one of those where I'm like, you

1:00:42

know, if you get one guy over

1:00:44

the other, like, am I really going to be that mad about

1:00:46

it? I don't think so

1:00:49

because I think that there are many

1:00:51

deserving candidates this year. What's

1:00:56

interesting is one of

1:00:58

the other things I looked at is how they

1:01:00

played down the stretch. When

1:01:07

the Cleveland Browns are playing for the

1:01:09

playoffs, when the Pittsburgh Steelers

1:01:11

are playing for the playoffs. And

1:01:14

that's one of the

1:01:16

reasons why I hesitate

1:01:18

sometimes to

1:01:21

put as much stock

1:01:24

in sacks as many

1:01:26

people do. And here's the reason why.

1:01:30

In the last four games of the season

1:01:32

that he played, last four

1:01:34

games, Miles Garrett

1:01:36

had 35 pressures. And

1:01:40

he had one sack. So a

1:01:45

critic might say, well, geez, he's

1:01:47

not getting home, so to speak.

1:01:50

But he's affecting the

1:01:52

quarterback on nine pass

1:01:55

drops every game down the

1:01:58

stretch when they're playing. playing

1:02:00

for the playoffs. I

1:02:03

can't get that one out of my head. And

1:02:05

I forget TJ Watts 21, 22.

1:02:09

I forget how many

1:02:11

is. It's good. It's very good.

1:02:14

But that really kind

1:02:16

of impacts me a little bit. We'll

1:02:18

see how we vote, but I

1:02:21

just wanted to try to give people a sense

1:02:24

of how difficult a

1:02:27

selection that is because look,

1:02:30

I watched TJ Watt in that

1:02:32

game, you know, in

1:02:34

Baltimore in absolutely miserable

1:02:37

conditions. And in

1:02:39

the span of I think he played 38

1:02:43

minutes or 36 minutes, something like that, but

1:02:45

he got hurt, you know, he hurt his

1:02:47

knee late in that game, you

1:02:49

know, in the miserable rain,

1:02:53

freezing rain of Baltimore.

1:02:56

But he was totally impactful

1:02:58

in that game. And

1:03:00

I just, I

1:03:03

dread honestly turning in my vote because

1:03:05

I'm going to say, were you right

1:03:07

or were you not right? I shouldn't

1:03:11

say I dread. I don't dread. I'm

1:03:13

going to make the best decision I can. So

1:03:16

we'll leave it at that. Miles,

1:03:19

I want to cap the

1:03:22

pod this week with

1:03:25

something that I never thought

1:03:27

in a million years that we would be talking

1:03:30

about. For those who did not see the play,

1:03:33

the New Orleans Saints

1:03:38

finished the season against

1:03:40

the Atlanta Falcons. And

1:03:42

in that game, essentially,

1:03:45

the New Orleans Saints

1:03:48

kind of obliterated the Falcons.

1:03:51

And at the end of the game, the New

1:03:55

Orleans Saints were in victory

1:03:57

formation, which everybody knows. It's

1:03:59

everybody's Everybody huddled around the

1:04:01

quarterback who's going to just take

1:04:03

a snap and take a knee.

1:04:07

You've only got seconds left in the game and

1:04:09

it's 41 to 17. Everybody

1:04:12

thinks that Jamis Winston, who's in the

1:04:15

game at that time, is going to

1:04:17

take the snap, kneel, everybody goes home.

1:04:20

But he doesn't do that. A

1:04:23

little bit of homework on this.

1:04:27

The New Orleans Saints this year, and

1:04:29

for those who know Jamal Williams, he's

1:04:32

a running back. He was

1:04:34

in Detroit last year, scored 17

1:04:36

rushing touchdowns, and he

1:04:38

was a wildly popular guy on the

1:04:41

Lions. He left in free agency and

1:04:44

went to the Saints. He

1:04:46

hadn't scored a touchdown the whole year. The

1:04:49

Saints love this guy, love

1:04:52

Jamal Williams, and so Jamis Winston

1:04:55

took it upon himself to say,

1:04:57

we're going to line up in victory formation.

1:04:59

I'm going to hand the ball to Jamal

1:05:01

Williams and he's going to score. The

1:05:05

Atlanta New Orleans rivalry is

1:05:08

really kind of an FU

1:05:10

rivalry. They hate each

1:05:12

other. When

1:05:15

you saw this play, you say,

1:05:18

that was really bush

1:05:20

league by the New Orleans Saints

1:05:22

to do that. You saw

1:05:24

the aftermath of the game when

1:05:27

Arthur Smith, the about to be fired

1:05:30

coach of the Atlanta Falcons, walks

1:05:33

across the field and

1:05:35

he is spewing venom the whole way.

1:05:38

What kind of BS was that? That

1:05:41

is ridiculous. Dennis

1:05:43

Allen knows that it was

1:05:45

ridiculous. At the moment, he doesn't

1:05:47

even know what happened, why it happened. Afterwards,

1:05:51

Jamis Winston said, that was

1:05:53

a quote team decision. The

1:05:57

team decision was to give Jamal Williams

1:05:59

a touchdown. down because he hadn't had one

1:06:01

the whole year. Miles Simmons,

1:06:03

my first reaction to that was

1:06:06

that is a very bad thing

1:06:08

for Dennis Allen because

1:06:11

his team went

1:06:13

over the coach's head

1:06:16

and anytime you do that even

1:06:18

for something that appears to be borderline

1:06:21

harmless I think it's very

1:06:23

bad for the head coach because it shows does

1:06:26

he really have is he really

1:06:28

in charge of this team or

1:06:30

is this a player run team and I don't

1:06:32

mean in a good way how did you see

1:06:34

it and how do you look at it right

1:06:36

now? Well I

1:06:38

wasn't watching that game live so when

1:06:40

you hear oh the the the Saints

1:06:42

score late touchdown and then Arthur Smith

1:06:45

was mad you're gonna like well stop

1:06:48

them and you know what do you mean

1:06:50

and then you hear well they were in

1:06:52

victory formation and then they actually ran a play

1:06:54

out of victory formation and you're like oh no that's

1:06:57

wrong right that's when you

1:06:59

are in victory formation you are

1:07:01

signaling to the defense hey it's

1:07:03

over I've given up it's a

1:07:05

white flag and there are some

1:07:07

things within player safety where you

1:07:09

could say if a defense is

1:07:11

not prepared for the people on

1:07:13

offense to fire off the ball

1:07:15

right and for a running back

1:07:17

to start coming at you that's

1:07:19

a player safety issue that's wrong

1:07:21

so the fact that Jamis Winston

1:07:24

did that it made the team

1:07:26

decision whatever you want to call

1:07:28

it like that it's not the

1:07:30

right thing to do and I

1:07:32

understand wanting to get Jamal Williams a touchdown

1:07:34

and if they lined up in I don't

1:07:36

know an offset eye and

1:07:38

then they run that play then you're not

1:07:40

at least signaling to the defense hey we're not

1:07:42

we're not running a play here now if

1:07:44

you signal that you're running a play that

1:07:47

it is what it is but the

1:07:49

fact that they did that out of victory formation

1:07:51

is the thing that bothers me the most about

1:07:53

it because when you are in

1:07:55

victory formation that means I'm not running a play

1:07:58

so I first Well, like,

1:08:00

you know, I know you were saying that

1:08:02

last week on PFT live that, you know,

1:08:05

if you have two players reporting that that

1:08:07

should be on sports malai conduct penalty. This

1:08:10

to me is another one that should be an

1:08:12

unsports malai conduct penalty. You don't run a play

1:08:14

out of victory formation. So I don't know if

1:08:16

it really means that Dennis Allen has lost the

1:08:18

team or not. I don't like it from

1:08:21

James Winston. If I am Dennis Allen, there's a

1:08:23

part of me that might want to cut James

1:08:25

Winston over something like this because

1:08:28

he's a quarterback and ultimately he calls a plate and he

1:08:30

decides what to do with the ball. But this

1:08:32

was not a good look from the saints, you

1:08:35

know, and I think that

1:08:37

when you do something like that, I

1:08:40

understand the frustration from Arthur

1:08:43

Smith. I do because again, it eventually

1:08:45

gets to a player safety issue rather

1:08:48

than just if they lined up and

1:08:51

I formation and they handed off to Jamal Williams,

1:08:53

he gets into the end zone. That's

1:08:55

way different to me than being in

1:08:57

victory formation and signaling the game is

1:08:59

over. Yeah,

1:09:02

I don't like it for a lot of

1:09:04

different reasons. I don't care how adamant or

1:09:06

how strong your rivalry is. It was

1:09:10

not a good way to end the game for the saints

1:09:14

and all the people I've

1:09:16

seen a hundred people in

1:09:18

the media, many

1:09:22

of them former players supporting

1:09:24

James Winston say, what a

1:09:26

great teammate. I love that

1:09:28

guy. It was Bush league period.

1:09:31

That's all there is to it. It

1:09:33

was Bush league. You don't run up

1:09:35

the score to get a phony touchdown

1:09:37

for a guy. How good does that

1:09:39

touchdown feel to Jamal Williams? Really? The

1:09:41

phony touchdown. It's

1:09:44

like, you know, it's

1:09:46

a phony touchdown. It

1:09:49

is, but it's hard to get a touchdown.

1:09:51

It's so hard to get into the end zone unless

1:09:53

you know, you're saying we're not running a play. It

1:10:00

is a phony touchdown about it's a phony

1:10:04

It's a phony touchdown because

1:10:07

it's like when the other team is letting

1:10:09

you score You know

1:10:11

when the other team lays down and lets

1:10:14

you score. That's what this was How good

1:10:16

do you feel about the touchdown Jamal Williams?

1:10:18

So I think I Hey,

1:10:21

look, we're pretty much in

1:10:23

agreement that this was a horse crap

1:10:26

Thing to do in my opinion for

1:10:28

a lot of reasons anyway Yes, that

1:10:31

is the end of this week's Peter King

1:10:33

podcast. It was kind of a rollicking Podcast

1:10:36

probably a little bit longer than usual.

1:10:38

Hope you enjoyed it And

1:10:41

we will see you back next week for

1:10:43

another episode of the pod in

1:10:45

which We will

1:10:47

dissect Wild

1:10:49

card weekend. There's no preface

1:10:52

to wild card weekend There's no

1:10:54

adjective to wild card weekend It's

1:10:57

wild card weekend and

1:10:59

we'll be back next week to dissect that

1:11:02

and to look ahead to the divisional round Thanks

1:11:05

a lot You