1:30

Welcome back to the Prolific Hub podcast

1:32

. I'm so excited today to be joined

1:35

by my dear friend , ashante

1:37

Rene . If you've been listening for a while

1:40

, you know I have mentioned her

1:42

a few times on this show that , and I

1:44

hope that you will find it as valuable

1:46

and as beautiful as I

1:57

do . Ashante is a dear

1:59

friend , she's a mentor and she's

2:02

actually a former boss at an organization

2:04

that we used to work at

2:06

, and I'm just so grateful to have her

2:08

in my life . So , without further

2:10

ado , let's jump into the episode

2:13

. Hi everyone , welcome back to the

2:15

Prolific Hub podcast . I'm your host , aaliyah

2:17

Cheyenne , and I'm so excited today to be

2:19

joined by Ashante

2:21

Rene . Hi Ashante , hi Aaliyah

2:24

. Oh my gosh , you should no

2:26

, okay . So for

2:28

anyone who's been listening to the show for

2:30

a while , you know I keep talking about

2:32

this woman who is

2:35

a former boss of mine , a mentor

2:38

and a friend who I have wanted

2:40

on the show for a long time , and she's finally

2:42

here . I'm

2:44

so excited . So

2:49

Ashante , as I

2:51

mentioned , is a former

2:53

boss of mine . We worked at an organization

2:56

that will not be named , but she

2:58

brought me on board there and

3:01

it was just such an honor to work under

3:03

her leadership and be a part

3:06

of her team . She has remained

3:08

an incredible mentor to me . She's

3:10

the who made me feel like I could

3:12

even do the consulting

3:15

thing a couple

3:17

of years ago and help

3:19

me with one of my first clients

3:21

ever , and I

3:24

have the honor of like supporting her with

3:26

launching some of her work and doing

3:28

some comms to support her and social

3:30

media . I'm just so honored

3:32

to have you here today . Yeah

3:34

, I'm going to pause , oh

3:40

, thank you . Okay , before I get

3:42

too mushy , shante

3:45

, I would love for you

3:47

to introduce yourself . I

3:50

always ask guests to introduce

3:52

themselves how they would love to be seen

3:54

and known in the world today , so

3:56

I would love for you to share that .

3:59

That's such a good question . How

4:01

would I love to be seen today ? I

4:03

would love to be seen today , as Do Not Disturb .

4:06

I mean , that's me

4:08

kind of every day Wow .

4:14

So yeah , I'm Ashante Rene . I am the founder

4:16

and chief wellness officer of the axon group

4:18

. I'm also the founder and ed

4:20

of the susu house and I've

4:22

started the retiring superwoman

4:24

campaign , and , and

4:27

, and , and , and I think I want

4:29

to be , I'm gonna think I want to be

4:31

known as a

4:33

protector of black women , as

4:35

a healer , as a

4:38

supporter , as an advocate

4:40

, as a cheerleader , as the

4:43

whole girl , girlfriend support

4:47

. I just really love us . I

4:49

really love us , really love

4:51

us . And I

4:54

want to be known as someone who helps us

4:57

heal , helps

4:59

us elevate , helps us

5:01

check out , helps us be soft

5:03

, helps us be powerful , helps us be

5:06

mediocre if we choose to like , helps

5:08

us have agency and

5:10

determine our own path and our own journey . So

5:13

, yeah , that's what I want to be known for .

5:15

Yes , and that you are , because

5:18

so many of those things you've done for

5:20

me , so I you

5:22

know we're doing our podcast

5:24

, but it's also friend to friend . I treasure you

5:26

a lot , so thank you , it's

5:30

going to be just that whole podcast .

5:32

No right , I have an issue with Black

5:34

women loving each other and you

5:36

shouldn't be on this fight . You shouldn't be listening to this

5:39

Listen .

5:39

Part , that part . Okay

5:42

, so let's get into all

5:44

the good stuff . So you mentioned

5:46

multiple things the Axon Group

5:49

, the Susu House , retiring superwoman

5:51

campaign so we're going to talk about all of those

5:53

as their own things . But

5:55

first can you tell us a little bit more

5:58

about the Axon group Like , what

6:00

is the Axon group ? Folks who may not be

6:02

aware of it , and then

6:04

we'll talk a little bit more about Susu House .

6:06

Yeah , so I am a licensed therapist

6:09

and I pivoted into

6:11

doing executive coaching and

6:13

performance coaching , specifically with melanated

6:16

women and , even more specific , with

6:18

Black women executives , because

6:20

we are often the ones

6:22

that are called in

6:25

to fix issues that we

6:27

didn't create , to stand

6:29

at the edge of the glass cliff which

6:32

creates burnout , which creates exhaustion

6:34

, and we are called in to change

6:36

the world with the resources

6:39

of the magic school

6:41

bus knapsack Like you

6:43

get a pencil and eraser and a peanut butter

6:45

sandwich . Go fix my organization . You

6:47

need more resources . Here's

6:49

some duct tape . Why couldn't you make

6:51

it work ? And so I really just wanted to

6:53

start working consistently with

6:56

us around that , and the

6:58

, the AgSung group is a

7:01

consulting , performance coaching

7:03

firm that really focuses

7:05

on us , with an element

7:08

that's woven through , that's just connected to our

7:10

healing , because I think that's the heart

7:12

of everything that we do , and so I

7:14

really do help people create lives . They don't

7:16

have to escape that , they don't have to take

7:18

two to four weeks off to go recover

7:20

from , and they don't have to

7:22

figure out a strategy

7:25

because they're already burned out . It's not

7:27

so much about a dream career or

7:29

a dream relationship . It's about having a

7:31

dream life that you actually deserve . So , yeah

7:34

, great lives where you don't have to escape them

7:36

. You actually enjoy them . The balance

7:38

looks like ebbs and flows and , most

7:41

importantly , I create spaces where

7:43

you get to be comfortable , to be whatever

7:45

version of yourself shows up that day .

7:47

yeah , I , I love

7:49

that , but the thing that's coming up

7:51

for me and you saying all of that , is like how

7:54

are you doing that for yourself ?

7:59

Therapists make the worst patients and

8:01

therapists make the worst clients

8:03

. Actually , all of the stuff

8:05

that I have created , all the different

8:07

platforms , come from a place of I

8:09

wasn't doing this for myself , or I

8:12

was burned out myself , or I

8:14

am my own recovering perfectionist , and

8:16

so what I often tell people

8:18

is I don't come at this work

8:20

as an expert . I come at this work

8:22

as someone who's living it with you , and so I'm

8:24

walking alongside you in your journey and some

8:26

areas I have already experienced , so I have knowledge

8:29

, and some areas I believe you came to me

8:31

for us to learn from each other . I

8:33

don't think anything I've been through has been wasted

8:36

, because it all gets to be an opportunity to be

8:38

in service of someone else at some point , and

8:40

so I am helping

8:42

myself as I'm you know , both

8:44

have my own resources to pour into me

8:46

and as I'm helping other women , because

8:49

you get to see yourself in other people and you know there's

8:51

moments where you're giving advice or sharing stuff

8:53

. You're like , ooh , that one was for me

8:55

too . Hold on , I'm going to go right now when

8:57

going , so it

8:59

is a and it is a form of accountability

9:02

for me , like part of having these

9:04

platforms and having these companies and

9:06

having these nonprofits are also accountability

9:10

points for me . I'm like how can I talk about this ? You

9:12

know and and want this and need this for other women

9:14

and I'm not doing it for myself . And in what areas

9:17

am I not doing it for myself ? A

9:19

great example is an

9:21

event we hosted for I think the launch

9:23

event we did for Susu House , and

9:26

it was about women resting

9:28

and our healing . We brought in

9:30

Octavia Rahim at one point and

9:33

I'm like how can I be talking

9:35

to people about how they should heal and how they should

9:37

rest and how they get to pause and I'm stressing

9:39

out about putting the event on , or I'm stressing my

9:41

team out about putting the event on

9:44

? That's counterproductive . We're not going to . Oftentimes

9:46

with a lot of nonprofits and just a lot of spaces

9:48

, period , we dismantle the thing outside

9:51

of our office that we're ultimately recreating

9:53

inside of our office and I never , yeah

9:55

. And so these , these

9:57

platforms are those checks and balances for

9:59

me where it's like okay , you offer this to other

10:01

people , where are you doing it for you ? And

10:03

so it forces it to stay present for

10:05

me , because you know , you know I got the memory of dory

10:08

if something's not in front

10:10

of me . I'd be like , oh , that's what's right . Right , I was

10:12

supposed to be breathing .

10:12

My bad , my bad my goodness , that

10:14

is how I , I , I

10:17

do it for myself .

10:19

It's often um , it's

10:23

often the accountability that

10:25

I'm working in or the people that I get to work with

10:27

yeah , I think

10:30

that's such a beautiful answer

10:32

.

10:32

So on a previous episode

10:34

we had a friend of yours on the show , jen

10:41

Roberts , the founder of Color

10:43

Girls Liberation Lab , and she said

10:45

a quote on that episode where

10:47

you actually reminded her

10:50

, like , hey , this work that you're doing

10:52

is also for you . Like

10:57

, hey , this work that you're doing is also for you . So I think it's very full circle

10:59

that you're saying , like , you know , the work that you're doing with Axon Group , with Sisu House

11:01

, with Retiring Superwoman , is also

11:03

for you . It's an accountability practice

11:05

, it's a way for you to see yourselves

11:08

in the women that you're supporting and

11:10

it's a way for you to remind yourself like

11:12

, hey , like I need to be living

11:14

these principles too . So I think that's

11:16

beautiful . Thank you , yeah

11:19

, on that note . You brought up Sisu

11:22

House in that answer . So

11:24

can you tell all the peoples what

11:26

is a Sisu House ?

11:27

A Sisu House . So

11:30

Sisu House was also

11:33

birthed out of . Most of these things get

11:35

birthed out of a frustration . It's like why

11:37

don't we have this thing ? Okay

11:39

, well , fine , I'm going to just create

11:42

something so I don't have to keep asking people

11:44

and getting told

11:47

no . On

11:50

healing equity , specifically

11:52

as it relates to practitioners and those

11:54

in the community who may not have the

11:57

financial means to access different

11:59

healing modalities , we often

12:01

talk about equity

12:03

as it relates to criminal justice

12:06

reform , social justice reform

12:08

, education , reproductive rights . I think

12:10

all of those things are important

12:12

. I don't like to say but and

12:15

if we get all these

12:17

things that we're saying that we want and we are in a

12:19

more healed space and we are more healed versions

12:21

of ourselves , we're just going

12:23

to continue to recreate bad patterns that

12:25

we have learned . You know it's going to put new

12:27

wine and old wineskin type of thing . And

12:30

so Susu House was created to really

12:32

just work on healing equity , because I

12:34

think that is the cornerstone of what actual change

12:36

is going to look like in our society .

12:38

Yeah .

12:39

And part of it was for people

12:41

who may not have the financial means , because , unfortunately

12:43

, healing equity is a bit of a privilege . It's

12:46

a privilege to be able to take a break or take time

12:48

off if you're burnt out , or to even

12:51

think about the existential things around . What do

12:53

I actually need ? Who am I If I'm just trying to

12:55

pay bills ? I'm trying to keep the lights on , I'm trying to keep a roof

12:57

over my head . You know what I don't have time for To

12:59

go see how a sound bath makes me feel .

13:01

Yeah .

13:07

Because I also believe you know , therapy is not the only like

13:09

talk , therapy is not the only form

13:11

or the only healing modality that resonates with people . But

13:15

if you're trying to just live day to day , you don't have time or access or the privilege to

13:17

pause and even think through those things . And I wanted to make that accessible

13:19

to us , especially from an indigenous

13:22

perspective , because most of these healing

13:24

modalities come from us anyway and

13:26

they were taken from us and now sold back to us

13:28

, and so I just wanted to know what's already

13:31

innate in us in some kind of way

13:33

, and so I wanted to offer

13:35

healing events for free for people to try

13:37

out what may work for them or what

13:39

you know for them , to get curious about different ways

13:41

that they can access resources

13:44

that will just help them in whatever trauma

13:46

they're working through , be it talk therapy

13:49

, human design , astrology

13:51

, sound bath work , reiki work , energy

13:53

work , chakra work , herbal work , whatever that

13:55

means for you and connected to whatever that means

13:57

for you and your religious beliefs

13:59

. I didn't want there

14:01

to be a financial barrier to that . Finances

14:04

shouldn't stop someone from being able to

14:06

heal through trauma . Secondly , I wanted

14:08

to make it equitable for practitioners

14:11

, because a lot of practitioners that look like me go

14:13

into this work to work with people that look like

14:15

us , and we also have to be

14:17

able to pay our bills , and so there's a

14:19

frustration around . I want to help

14:21

my people , but my people can't afford

14:23

my rates . So how do I , you

14:25

know , have a sustainable life for myself

14:27

and help my folks ? And

14:30

so , coming in and making sure with

14:32

the SUSO House , when we do events , we pay practitioners

14:34

their full rate . Sometimes you

14:36

pay them more than the rate that they're offering

14:38

You'd be like . No , actually , you

14:40

know , from an equitable perspective , we never pay a practitioner

14:43

less than a particular amount , and so it always

14:45

is that or above , and so giving

14:47

them a chance to actually get introduced

14:49

to more people , aid

14:51

their full rate for what they're doing , do the

14:53

thing that they're gifted and call to do and love

14:56

to do , and it invites people in to try

14:58

something new . Without money being

15:00

a factor . We just basically raise

15:02

a lot of money and then put it back into the

15:04

community to

15:06

do healing events for folks , to build community

15:09

and take what they need from that .

15:12

I love that . I feel like for

15:14

any , for any Caribbean people

15:16

that are listening . They're like Susu pasa

15:19

pasa .

15:20

Yes , partner , yeah , I mean it

15:22

is our time , right , our time in

15:26

this particular way , and so you

15:29

know the , the practitioners

15:31

are , you know , trading their time for me , and

15:34

then the community is trading their time , and

15:36

then I'm kind of the middleman , or Susu

15:38

is the person in the middle

15:41

or the entity in the middle , just

15:43

kind of creating . It's the house , like everybody

15:45

gets to come into the house . So like

15:47

you come into the house you go eat good , you don't have

15:49

community , you're going to laugh , you're going to enjoy

15:51

each other , and so Susu , isutsu is that

15:54

entity . It's that house that folks get to come

15:56

into to figure out what works

15:58

best for them .

15:59

Yeah , and I think what you're doing

16:01

is so important creating more

16:04

accessibility , really , for people

16:06

who either don't have access

16:08

or who want to provide the service , but

16:10

they also need to survive

17:06

this capitalistic hellscape . You

17:09

know , we all have to participate

17:11

to the degree that we need

17:13

to to survive until something

17:15

better comes . So I love this

17:17

just kind of merging of providing

17:20

more support in that space , where people who need

17:22

it , who might not be able to afford it , can come

17:24

to the house and get

17:27

what they need and the people providing

17:29

the service can also be supported in the work

17:31

that they're called to do . So I think that's really special

17:33

. Okay , so we're going to talk about more

17:36

of this stuff . There's

17:38

so many things around this . So you

17:41

already spoke about , like , what led you

17:43

to creating these things , because

17:45

you recognized a lack or you

17:47

felt like you needed it

17:49

as well . So that launched you into

17:51

wanting to provide the support through the Susu

17:53

House and the Axon Group , and I think that's

17:56

wonderful . But I

17:58

often ask people about purpose . So

18:01

I feel like identifying a need

18:03

and identifying

18:05

and creating this entity

18:07

to serve this gap is one

18:09

thing , but I'm often really curious

18:12

about what calls people to

18:14

their purpose . How do

18:16

you know what is the

18:19

thing in your body , what is the thing in your spirit

18:21

and your mind that affirms you that

18:23

this is your purpose , your

18:34

purpose , so , in what way does the Axon group

18:36

.

18:36

Does Sisu House fuel your purpose as a person in this world ? I've read a quote

18:38

recently and I'm going to kind of butcher

18:40

it , but the essence of it is

18:42

your purpose

18:45

is the thing that you do that lights you up , that

18:47

also serves , that helps people

18:49

right , that serves the world . And

18:51

these things don't feel like

18:53

work to me . They

18:56

don't feel like the old

18:59

adage , you know , do

19:01

what you love and then like , if you get paid for it

19:03

, like that's bonus

19:05

or that's extra , like in a non-capitalist

19:07

way . But these things don't feel like

19:09

work . They feel like a culmination

19:12

of the experiences that I've had throughout my

19:14

life , the wisdom that I have gained , the mistakes

19:16

that I have made , the trauma

19:18

that I have been through . These

19:20

things feel like , well

19:23

, that was the training ground . That

19:26

was the training ground for this . This is

19:28

why I went through that . This

19:30

is why I experienced that situation

19:32

. This is why I made that horrible mistake

19:35

to learn , so I could be here

19:37

, so it

19:39

wouldn't be wasted . And

19:42

so it doesn't feel like work

19:44

. It feels like confirmation of the life that

19:46

I have lived so far . That's

19:48

how I know it's a part of my purpose

19:50

. It feels exciting

19:54

. At the heart

19:56

of it it feels effortless . The execution

19:59

and those pieces take energy

20:01

and take work and can be stressful . But

20:03

at the heart of the idea , the purity

20:05

of the idea , the

20:07

motivation behind

20:10

the idea of these things feel effortless

20:12

and they actually give

20:15

me life , like when I see a

20:17

Black woman have like an aha moment in

20:20

a session or I see you know

20:22

someone sitting like at a sound

20:24

bath , because I've never done something like that before

20:26

and they're like I just see tears coming down

20:28

their face and they're like I don't even know what

20:30

this is , but I needed that . They may not

20:32

ever go do that again , but in that moment

20:34

they got to feel loved on , they got to feel

20:36

seen , they got to feel cared for

20:38

and I'm like that's

20:41

it , that's it . And every

20:43

single time something like that happens

20:45

and it's like that's the , that's

20:48

the work . Yeah , like for a lot

20:50

of us , it's like I am a

20:52

healer , at the heart of all of what I

20:54

do and I've had a lot of roles and a lot of industries

20:57

and I've gotten to a point where the

20:59

I realized the through line of all of that

21:01

was helping people and helping people heal

21:04

, and because in helping other people heal , it's helping

21:06

me heal my own stuff as well yeah

21:08

, yeah . And so it doesn't

21:10

feel like work to me .

21:12

Yeah .

21:12

It really doesn't . It feels like second nature

21:15

.

21:15

Yeah , I

21:22

think that's a beautiful answer . Do

21:24

I often lean

21:27

on something like that quote that you shared

21:29

at the beginning ? That , like you know

21:31

, think about what you would do for

21:33

free , just because it brings you

21:35

joy and it makes you feel good

21:38

and you're helping others and it lights

21:40

you up . That

21:42

is likely the thing that will

21:44

help to align you with your purpose

21:47

, like if you're feeling lost or unsure , and

21:49

I think your answer is just a

21:52

beautiful thing that just supports that idea

21:54

. Like this is second nature for you

21:56

. It feels good and I love that

21:58

answer .

22:03

People . It's like I don't want to get paid for it , because the moment

22:06

money comes into it then it feels like a burden

22:08

and it it taints a little bit . And so for

22:10

some folks purpose may

22:12

not be something that pays you , For others it

22:14

is . But either way , knowing

22:16

what that thing is , that like lights

22:18

you up and fills you up , kind of

22:20

feels like your North Star , is

22:23

good to learn , and it took me a very long time to get there

22:25

. A lot of I learned it by learning

22:27

all the things I do not enjoy .

22:29

Yeah .

22:31

It wasn't what I was , like I want to be

22:33

a healer . I was like , no , I want to be a dentist

22:35

, but I was fine , yeah . So I was through

22:38

like so many iterations of roles

22:40

and responsibilities and things where

22:43

I it

22:45

was right for me in that season but it was

22:47

not . And it was right for me in that season , but

22:49

it was not what I was supposed to experience in that

22:51

season .

22:55

But it was not my purpose , but it was getting me closer and closer to my purpose

22:57

. Yes , yeah , exactly . Kind of like the Alchemist , yes , which

23:00

I'm currently rereading because I read it

23:02

many years ago . I'm someone

23:04

when I read , I highlight things that stand

23:06

out to me . So it's very interesting to

23:08

me now to be rereading it and like

23:10

looking at my old highlights , like does this still

23:12

resonate ? Am I highlighting new things ? Because

23:15

I'm in a different season and the messages are landing

23:17

differently for me . I

23:19

love that . And just leaning into , like you

23:21

said , like sometimes your purpose ain't always going to pay

23:23

you , like there's this culture now

23:25

about monetizing every single thing

23:27

, even things that are like you know

23:29

what you feel passionate about , and

23:33

for some people it does work out to do both and for some folks it doesn't . But really

23:35

leaning into that thing that lights you up and

23:38

brings you joy , like that will help to

23:40

bring you to that purpose

23:42

. And going through phases and

23:44

seasons and stages that

23:46

also help to bring you closer too , because

23:48

somebody's roles they

23:51

may be tough , but they help

23:53

us to weed out what we do and what we don't

23:55

want , what we do and what we don't need .

23:57

And if you are in a job

24:00

where you're like this is not my purpose

24:02

but it pays bills in

24:04

a way that allows me to lean into my

24:06

purpose . So I think also

24:09

expanding this very prescriptive

24:11

idea of like what it looks like to be happy

24:13

or live a particular type of life .

24:16

Yeah , yeah , I

24:18

feel like you've touched on

24:20

this in many ways , like just identifying

24:23

what you wanted to create in the world , leaning

24:25

into what feels good to you

24:27

. But I feel like there's always . There

24:36

are always these moments and instances and events that kind of like catapult us into charting

24:38

our own paths and becoming entrepreneurs and solopreneurs . What was that

24:40

moment or that

24:43

feeling for you where you just kind

24:45

of knew , like I

24:47

need to , I need to do this thing , like I need

24:50

to take it seriously , I need to pursue

24:52

this . What was that moment for you

24:54

?

24:55

I'm laughing because I don't think it was one

24:57

moment . Okay

24:59

, it was a series of

25:01

events where it's like , if you're a woman

25:03

, one time , like I've been , I wasn't

25:06

catching it . I wasn't catching it . Uh

25:08

, I think it was after , like you

25:11

know , the like people say , like death by a thousand

25:13

cuts . It was kind of like realizations

25:16

by a thousand WTFs . I was like

25:18

what in the ? I

25:21

was like , okay , what are all these different things

25:23

? Tell me ? Yeah , and

25:25

even then it wasn't something I was

25:27

sure of that there was . There

25:30

wasn't a aha , oh my gosh , I need to be

25:32

an entrepreneur and do this on my own . That

25:34

was not it . Like I was not

25:37

a I'm about to be an entrepreneur

25:39

, but no , it was none of that . It was I can't

25:41

do these things

26:19

anymore , like this , I don't . I'm

26:21

going to start doing this instead . So

26:23

I went out of options playing the game

26:25

the way that I was told to play it , and I

26:27

didn't know what else to do . So I just started

26:29

doing this other thing and then realized , oh , that's what it's called

26:32

. Okay , cool , great , that's what we'll do . But

26:34

it wasn't that I stumbled into it , it wasn't

26:36

some amazing

26:39

epiphany declaration , it

26:42

was just like that has to be something else

26:44

. I can't work in this space this

26:47

way . I

26:51

can't work with these particular constraints , I can't

26:53

work with these philosophies

26:55

being the thing that people often

26:58

work and live by and I'm going to be honest

27:00

with my former employers I'm pretty sure that

27:02

didn't make me a great employee , because I

27:04

was constantly like wait what ? No

27:06

, I don't like that , wait what

27:08

. So , if

27:11

any of y'all are watching and someone has passed it to

27:13

you , I am aware now in my

27:15

2020 hindsight wisdom , it probably

27:17

didn't make me that great of an employee because there

27:19

was constant like why are we doing this

27:21

, like this ? Like why ?

27:23

does it make sense .

27:25

It's like , well , so much of that makes sense , Then you

27:27

go do it . I guess

27:30

I'll go do it , yeah , and so there

27:32

really wasn't a a

27:34

um , like uh-huh

27:36

.

27:36

Yeah .

27:37

Now it was . It was a series

27:39

of continuous I know

27:41

what I don't want , I

27:47

know what I don't want , I know what I don't like , I know what's not working and if I'm going to stay in

27:49

these very specific restrictive spaces , I have to play by those rules . Like you

27:51

can't get mad at rules and then stay in the space

27:53

that's perpetuating the rules , like if you don't

27:55

either conform to it or do something else

27:57

, because at that

27:59

point you're like now you're just being disruptive for no reason

28:01

and so I'm like , all right , well , let me just leave and go

28:03

do something else . Then , yeah , and that's

28:06

kind of how that happened , and it was a slow roll

28:08

, like I slowly like rolled into doing my own

28:10

thing and then picked it up and you

28:12

know what I started , what

28:15

Axon started out , as it no longer looks

28:17

like that , and then being okay , yeah , being

28:19

okay with the evolution of what

28:21

my company looks like , being okay with the evolution

28:24

of what Susu looks like and what it offers

28:26

, and not having

28:28

to have it all figured out and the recovering

28:30

perfectionist in me Does not like

28:32

that At all . No part

28:34

of me enjoys that Piece

28:37

of the journey . It's part of the

28:39

journey . So , yeah , that wasn't

28:41

one thing .

28:43

Yeah , I love that the

28:45

analogies you shared , but also the language of it wasn't one thing . Yeah , I love that , the analogies you shared , but also the

28:47

language of stumbling into it

28:49

, because sometimes there , like you said

28:51

, there isn't an epiphany , like sometimes you just

28:53

learn along the way and sometimes you're tripping

28:56

and stumbling and falling into it , but

28:58

eventually you figure it out

29:00

and

29:04

you learn how to fall better .

29:05

I'm still tripping , but I'm like I know learn how to fall better . I'm still

29:07

tripping , but I'm like I know I'm a fall . It's like

29:09

I know I can't wear these heels , but I know I

29:11

got eight steps before I fall again . Before

29:14

I didn't know I had eight good steps . Now I know

29:16

I got eight good steps before I fall again and

29:18

I know how to fall . Now I'm not going to fall for

29:20

it , I'm going to fall for the side . So I

29:22

just mess up and

29:29

it sits . That's

29:32

all I got .

29:32

I'm just , I'm all better at this

29:34

point , I know I like I

29:36

literally just had an image in my head of when

29:38

I was younger , trying to wear heels that I had

29:41

no business wearing and like I really

29:43

could work walking them every step

29:45

. I was like every step

29:47

I was stumbling and my ankle was just

29:49

kind of like like going like this

29:52

, but I I held my head

29:54

high , made it to my destination

29:56

and I took them joints off .

29:59

Look , look , you

30:01

know and I know there's supposed to be this I think

30:03

oftentimes we look to have people

30:06

be experts so then they can tell us what

30:08

to do and tell us how to respond

30:10

to a thing , and I'm like , I'm sorry , most of us don't know what we're

30:12

doing either . Much more honest

30:14

and normalizing the like y'all

30:17

. I'm still falling , like I feel . Two days

30:19

ago I was like , oh , that was a bad idea . Okay

30:21

, noted , yeah , it's

30:25

a series of just learning

30:27

how to fall .

30:28

Yeah , and navigating hardships , because

30:31

this no path is

30:33

easy , but this one , especially

30:35

when you're trying to figure stuff out , it can be really tough

30:37

. So

30:41

thank you for that . I would like to talk a little bit more

30:44

about the recovering perfectionists , because

30:50

you've mentioned it a few times and I know that is an

30:52

aspect of your work as well a few

30:54

times , and I know that is

30:56

an aspect of your work as well

30:58

. So it sounds super self-explanatory , but

31:02

folks who might not understand

31:05

.

31:05

Can you break it down ? What and who

31:08

is the recovering perfectionist ? I , I am , she , we are . Yeah , I

31:10

realized a

31:13

few years ago , after you know most major

31:15

transitions in your life , you

31:17

kind of start to do an evaluation of everything

31:20

in your life and one of the things that came up was

31:22

how much of a perfectionist I

31:24

really was . And I had the epiphany

31:26

and called a homegirl to be like , oh girl

31:29

, I've had , I realize

31:31

I am a perfectionist

31:34

and I , you know , silence

31:36

on the phone and I'm like she's taking

31:38

it in too , because I was a yep

31:40

, that was good . And then she's still silent

31:42

on the phone . I'm like , hello , yeah , I'm

31:44

like , oh , she must really be feeling this , like she's processing

31:47

it , like I processed it , and I'm like , girl

31:49

, you heard me , she me . She's like

31:52

, yeah , wait , what ? That was all a response

31:55

.

31:56

It was that kind of silence . Okay , hold

31:58

on .

31:59

Read that wrong . What

32:02

Girl I thought you knew . You

32:05

know . She said it's new to you . I really thought you knew

32:07

you were a perfectionist . I did not . I

32:10

thought I was coming to you with new information . Come

32:12

to find out . I'm the last to know . So then I started

32:14

calling more and more friends and they're all like girl

32:17

. Maybe it's like is this

32:19

a ? Are we playing a game ? Like , what's

32:21

that ? How do you not know ? I thought

32:23

what . And so one

32:26

, my epiphany and revelation

32:28

was not that deep because everybody else knew , but

32:30

me . So that hurt a

32:32

little . But you know , it really

32:35

started this process of really

32:37

leaning into . Well , how did I get here , like

32:39

, and what does this mean ? I know what you know

32:41

. Sometimes people use perfection . It's like oh well , what's

32:43

your , what's your biggest weakness ? I'm

32:45

a perfectionist . I was like actually , yeah , actually

32:48

that's a thing yeah and

32:50

I really started to lean into what that meant for

32:53

me . It came

32:55

to the realization , specifically with melanated

32:57

people , that perfectionism is

32:59

a coping mechanism . It

33:05

is a trauma response because of all the generational trauma we have experiences

33:07

. It's not just like I just want to be the best because I'm type A and

33:09

I have to know . This is actually about safety

33:11

, like us being perfectionists and us

33:13

using perfectionism as a coping mechanism is actually

33:15

about our safety . If I can anticipate

33:18

everything , if I can cross every T , if I can nod every

33:20

I , and if I can know everything that's

33:22

happening before it happens , I won't be blindsided

33:25

, I won't be caught off guard , I won't be harmed

33:27

. And so

33:29

I really started to unpack what that

33:31

actually

34:04

meant , which is why I started calling myself a recovering

34:06

perfectionist , because I think it is something

34:08

that is going to take a lifetime

34:10

to unpack and undo for myself

34:12

, and it also , as a recovering

34:15

perfectionist , gives me grace , like if I'm in

34:17

recovery , there are going to be days where I'm like , oh , I was not . I was a

34:19

little more perfection , a little less recovery today . It was a little

34:21

more perfection , a little less recovery

34:23

today , and so I

34:26

started doing work around that

34:28

. It started when I would talk

34:30

to a lot of my clients and just talk to other Black

34:32

women , it's like , oh yeah , I'm a perfectionist , oh , I'm recovering

34:35

from that , and it just became such

34:37

a real . It

34:40

just really started to highlight how , oh , this isn't just

34:42

my issue , this is something

34:44

out in the world and we just don't have words for

34:46

it yet , and people really

34:48

hadn't connected trauma to perfection

34:50

, like being perfectionist

34:52

because of our trauma , and

34:54

so I just really started to lean

34:56

into that and started teaching workshops around

34:58

it . I'm currently working on a book , talking

35:02

about it and talking about it through the lens

35:04

where we center melanated women , specifically

35:06

Black women , oftentimes self-help books , center

35:10

whiteness and we have to contort ourselves

35:12

into ways to make the language

35:15

make sense to us , and so I want to

35:17

start with us as the center , and so

35:19

you know most book coming out , hopefully

35:21

in 2025 around that particular

35:23

thing and how to care for ourselves and how

35:25

to do that . So right now there's workshops and

35:27

, just you know , talks

35:30

and conversations and yeah

35:33

things and stuff like that , just to

35:35

really unpack why

35:37

we , why we use this as a coping

35:39

mechanism , the different types of perfectionists

35:42

that people may

35:44

show up as because it's not all personalities

35:47

, right , like people who don't have type

35:49

personalities still engage in perfectionism

35:51

, people who are procrastinators that

35:53

is a science on

35:55

perfectionism , right , you're like , well , if it's not perfect

35:57

and I can't get it , just right , I'm just I'm just going

36:00

to right . So , um

36:03

, kind of live in the realm of perfectionism that we

36:05

don't realize are actually , you

36:08

know , a part of that coping

36:10

style . And so just bringing that to light

36:12

and , with most things , normalizing

36:15

it in a way where people just don't

36:17

feel like there's something

36:20

wrong with them , like there's nothing

36:22

Right , like a lot of times clients come to me and I'm

36:24

like , let's start with you're not broken . You

36:27

are not broken and so you do not need to be fixed

36:29

.

36:30

We do .

36:30

Let's start there , like and you already have everything

36:32

you need in you to heal and

36:37

now you bring in all these resources to help support that . But please know , the work that we are doing

36:39

is not because you were broken and you need to be fixed

36:42

and you need to be fixed . It is because you have survived

36:44

certain traumas and now those

36:46

survival tactics may not be needed anymore

36:48

and we need to figure out what to replace it with

36:50

. So perfectionism has served us and because

36:53

it creates positive

36:55

results , we think it's a cheat code

36:58

. In actuality , it is

37:00

something that's eroding

37:02

the most authentic version of ourselves

37:04

.

37:05

Yeah , I love that and that's

37:07

just such a beautiful explanation

37:09

and it gives people an opportunity to really

37:11

if they feel like they identify

37:14

with that term and that title to really think

37:16

about how perfectionism

37:18

has showed up and served them

37:20

, whether that's because of

37:22

trauma or certain environments

37:26

or disadvantages or different things they've had to

37:28

navigate in life that formulated their

37:30

personality that way , and how to kind

37:32

of step out of that and

37:34

step into your body and inner

37:36

knowing about how to like navigate it . Once

37:47

where they were trying to make the case for leaning away from that term , but when you actually

37:49

read the article , they're talking about a lot of the same things . It's about how

37:51

we've come to identify

37:53

this way because of certain disadvantages

37:55

in life or certain environments , certain things that

37:57

have made us hard and become

37:59

like this , and , instead of leaning

38:01

into hopelessness and trying

38:04

to become this flawless person

38:06

, like embrace this aspect

38:08

of yourself and like learn how to work around

38:10

it . And I'm just kind of like well , I

38:14

understand what you're saying but

38:16

at the same time , part

38:18

of breaking away and doing better

38:20

is , you know , some

38:23

aspect of healing , some aspect

38:25

of of recovery , some aspect of looking at

38:27

things differently . So I think you know your

38:29

explanation is beautiful and I cannot

38:31

wait for the book to come out . I

38:33

will be reading it .

38:34

I'll be adding it to my library either

38:37

you know what a recovering perfectionist I want

38:39

to do write a book about all the ways they've been a

38:41

perfectionist and then share it with the world

38:43

, with the world they messed up , yeah

38:46

, but the more I write , the more I'm like , oh , this

38:48

was not a good idea . It's still so

38:50

sad and challenging . Oh so , yeah

38:53

, so that article you're speaking about it's

38:55

the . I also think people with

38:57

different experiences get to use words

38:59

differently yeah yep , yep

39:02

. I think it's easy to say like , oh , it makes you feel

39:04

hopeless . If you're a recovering perfectionist , I'm

39:06

like , yeah , if you've always operated from the

39:08

space of hope and opportunity

39:11

and access and privilege , if you've never

39:13

operated from those spaces , it's the

39:15

saying you're a recovering perfectionist gives you

39:17

permission to be human . Yeah

39:19

, it gives you permission to take

39:21

time to figure it out . Permission

39:26

to take time to figure it out , it gives you permission

39:28

to get over a breakup and then , three years later , hear a song

39:30

by you know , or hear a song by , I would say , brian McKnight

39:32

. bless

39:35

his heart he can't get , he can't get like

39:37

hear a love song from the nineties , I'll just

39:39

say that

39:41

. And all of a sudden you're crying . Right

39:43

, yeah , I thought I was done with this . I thought

39:45

calling yourself a recovering perfectionist

39:48

gives you permission to be like , yeah

39:50

, that particular season of that thing I

39:53

did heal . And this

39:55

new emotion I'm feeling

39:57

is triggering something on a new level . Right

40:00

, shout out to all my elderly millennials , super

40:02

Mario Brothers , like , yeah , you healed level three

40:04

, but now you're on level eight and

40:06

level eight . These same things are coming

40:08

up and that's okay . And

40:10

so I think , saying you

40:12

can't , you also just saying you shouldn't use

40:14

a word anymore . It's like who are you ? How dare

40:16

you ? Cause you don't

40:18

know who that word or what that phrase , how

40:21

that resonates with people . And so just the privilege

40:23

of saying we have to throw this away , we can't

40:25

use this anymore , already speaks to your

40:27

privilege around the thing . But

40:30

when I say it , when

40:38

I say recovering , perfectionists .

40:39

I am inviting people to give themselves the permission to be human , messy , and that's

40:41

so important . That's so important , especially being in a

40:43

world that tells you you have to act a certain way

40:45

and be a certain way . Like I'm

40:48

in an era of just showing up as myself

40:50

, like my authentic self , my

40:52

, like my messy self

40:54

, my sometimes wrong self

40:57

, like listen , I'm a

40:59

person I keep seeing this language

41:01

around and

41:04

it's certain pages that I follow that really

41:06

explore just grief and

41:08

things like that . But just giving yourself

41:10

grace because , depending

41:13

on what you believe in , we're all just doing life

41:15

for the first time . Like it doesn't matter how

41:17

old we get . In the grand scheme of

41:19

the universe , we're all babies

41:21

. We're just babies and

41:23

we're here for the first time experiencing

41:25

life . So it's I think about that

41:28

a lot when I'm trying to give myself grace , when

41:30

I make mistakes , or when

41:33

I'm trying to give other people in my life

41:35

grace or maybe something

41:37

affecting me in a way that wasn't intended

41:40

that we're all just doing life for the first time

41:42

. We're all figuring

41:44

it out together . So I

41:46

love the idea of just embracing your

41:48

fullness , flaws , mistakes and all

41:50

, and just being more human , because that's what we are at the end

41:52

of the day , like I , why didn't I know

41:54

how to do that ?

41:55

because you didn't . Yeah , just yeah

41:58

. And that is hard , and

42:00

I say that with the . I

42:03

have to tell myself that quite often

42:05

. So sit

42:07

with whatever you need to sit with around that , ashanti

42:09

, and now figure out how you're going

42:11

to manage , because so many of us are human

42:14

. Most of the time people aren't

42:16

doing something against you , they're doing

42:18

it for themselves , like people are for themselves

42:20

. They're not against you , yep , yep

42:23

, and

42:27

that's a really hard thing to sit with , right , like they're not trying to come for you , they just

42:29

trying to help themselves . And then and in

42:31

them helping themselves , a ripple effect may harm

42:34

you , yes , the consequences of

42:36

it and the impact of it , not

42:38

minimize it . But it's not always someone's

42:41

out to get you sometimes they are

42:43

but it is not always that when someone , especially

42:45

when it's people that you care about , Most

42:47

of the time , when it's them , it's not . Yeah , right

42:49

, like let me put that caveat out

42:51

there the people that love and actually care for you . When

42:54

they do something that's hurtful or harming , or disturbing

42:57

or frustrating or deeply disappointing

42:59

, they're not doing it to harm

43:02

you . They

43:06

are not doing it to harm you . They are doing something in support of themselves . Yeah , and the

43:08

ripple of the effect of that is harming you . It's yeah , impact still gets to be the impact

43:10

, and it's not necessarily

43:13

intentional yeah , yeah

43:15

, thank you for that .

43:17

I think that's . That's

43:19

excellent . Nothing to add there . Yeah

43:23

, just sitting with that

43:26

for a moment . Okay , so we've

43:28

mentioned the Retiring Superwoman

43:30

series . Like , we've mentioned

43:33

it , we haven't gone in depth about

43:35

it , so please can you talk

43:37

to us and tell the audience more about

43:39

what is the Retiring Superwoman

43:42

Like ? What is the series that you've launched

43:44

? Can you talk to us a little bit more about it ?

43:46

retiring superwoman came up

43:48

because I'm tired , because I was trying

43:51

to do all these things in 2023

43:53

and 2023 kicked my butt like

43:55

it was really rude like it was really 2023

43:58

was rude , I'm like . If you don't want to be here

44:01

, why did you show up ? Like you could have just quietly

44:03

quit and not brought me your ?

44:04

drama 2023 .

44:06

Yeah , you , yeah

44:08

. Why are you coming for me ? and

44:10

I just ended up not practicing

44:13

any of the things I preached to my clients , which

44:15

was accountability

44:17

piece , and I realized just

44:20

how tired I was and how over

44:22

it I was , and this was a new level like

44:24

so what does your authentic self look like ? And

44:28

so retiring superwoman

44:30

came to be because

44:32

I was in a session with

44:34

somebody or a workshop or

44:36

a panel or something and

44:38

we were talking maybe it was the glass cliff

44:41

, I think it may have been something with the female quotient

44:43

, I'm not sure , but we

44:45

were talking about , like , our labor and

44:47

what that means , and specifically

44:50

for black and brown women , and

44:52

it was just our , our value . Because

44:55

of slavery , our value was literally

44:57

connected to our labor and

44:59

our yeah , like that's

45:02

the only reason we were valuable in

45:05

society's eyes is is what we

45:07

put out , what we were able to do

45:09

, what we were able to accomplish and

45:12

I know things have shifted over time , but

45:14

have they ?

45:15

there's have . Well

45:19

, we like slavery . Has it ended

45:21

?

45:21

no so part

45:23

two , we will be getting racial

45:25

analysis of the new Jim Crow

45:28

. The new we'll

45:30

get into those , yes , but

45:33

it hadn't , because then we'd internalized

45:35

it right . So

45:37

it was the I'm the strong friend

45:39

, I got to handle it , I got to take care of it , I'm

45:41

the one that people call on , I'm the

45:44

one that blah , blah , and on some level

45:46

it turned us into a martyr and I can speak

45:48

for myself . I realized it had turned me into

45:50

an interesting martyr victim

45:52

. I started playing in

45:54

that cycle and that dynamic and then I realized

45:57

I enjoyed it , like I liked

45:59

being the martyr , because then I could

46:01

feel like , oh , look at what's happening to me , look

46:03

at how people are . I'm like , well , but you

46:05

agreed to do some of these things that

46:08

you're not being mad about . You

46:10

agreed to participate in X . You

46:12

didn't set a better boundary here , and sometimes

46:14

you don't know the boundary you should set until

46:16

you have to set it . Yes , and

46:19

sometimes these boundaries are much harder , especially

46:21

in the families oh yeah , 100%

46:27

of the family dynamics and so everybody started to get me it . It allowed me to start really

46:29

unpacking . Wait , my value really is in my labor

46:31

and that , in conjunction with the recovering perfectionist

46:33

piece like if I put stuff out , then

46:35

I was enough , like it all came . It

46:37

was very external and it wasn't about the fact that

46:39

I could just do this . The

46:43

fact that I am present , the fact that I am here , the

46:45

fact that I can breathe , that may be valuable , but

46:47

that also isn't something that messaging , isn't

46:50

expressed or acknowledged in

46:52

society . Right , it's about what you can do , what you

46:54

can bring to the table , and so well you can . And

46:57

so retiring superwoman really became

46:59

like a cultural movement where we prioritize

47:01

the well-being of others . Like we explore

47:03

how we prioritize the well-being of others , like we explore

47:06

how we prioritize the well-being of others

47:08

and how we can set better boundaries for

47:10

ourselves , how you could no

47:12

longer come from our labor or our sacrifice

47:15

, or our resilience or

47:17

our exhaustion , and

47:20

I really kind of like declared

47:22

war against the word resilience , like

47:24

I actually despise that word because

47:26

it is used as a badge of honor . Like

47:29

, oh , you're so resilient , how about we get to a

47:31

point where I actually don't have to get knocked down

47:33

and get back up , and then that

47:35

be celebrated ? How about you just

47:37

don't knock me down ?

47:39

How about ?

47:39

we don't even bring resilience into the conversation

47:42

, because resilience means I am able

47:44

to withstand a hardship . How about we

47:46

take out the hardship ? I'm sorry

47:49

the fact that I can take a punch .

47:50

Because you're so strong and you're so resilient

47:53

. I mean , how about no ?

47:54

So retirements is a campaign similar

47:57

and it's under the Susu House where we're exploring

47:59

like one where we

48:02

have started to internalize

48:04

, where our value is all about our production

48:07

and external things , where we're also

48:09

playing into that role , where we're refusing to take

48:11

the cape off ourselves , like where we're adding

48:14

. You know , we're perpetuating this thing that we say

48:16

we want to be differently or we want to be different

48:18

, and then what we can start doing

48:21

to change that and it's not major

48:23

life overhauls , because I hate when people like all you

48:25

have to do is just start loving on yourself more . It's

48:27

just more self-love and deep breathing

48:29

. Ma'am , if I knew how to do these things consistently

48:31

, I wouldn't be in the position that I'm in right now

48:33

. Facts Don't

48:36

just say all you have to . Anytime someone says all you

48:38

have to do is nope , shut up , I'm not talking to you . I'm not

48:40

talking to you , that's all I had to do

48:42

. And so retiring superwoman is

48:44

being very honest around . You may be in a

48:47

meshed family dynamic where you can't just

48:49

start saying no to everything because something may

48:51

not get done , someone may not get the care

48:53

that they need , and so you can't just be

48:55

like I quit , I'm done with it . Or you may

48:57

have a family and children where you still have to

48:59

care for them . Or you may be in a certain

49:01

dynamic of situation , professionally or in

49:03

friendships , where I can't just be like new

49:06

boundaries for me , new boundary alert . I'm

49:08

not doing this like that . That may not

49:10

be what actually works for

49:12

you in this particular season , but you can build

49:14

up to that . You can actually start asking

49:16

questions now and getting curious about how

49:19

showing up in these roles is still serving you

49:21

, because we don't do anything that doesn't serve

49:23

us , be it healthy or unhealthy . So let's

49:25

just start becoming aware around

49:27

, like why does this identity mean so much

49:29

to you ? Why are you holding onto it

49:31

? Let's start unpacking that . And then

49:33

let's start figuring out how you can start seeing

49:36

the value in just you being in this world

49:38

, and then let's start doing some activities around

49:41

that so that muscle can get built up . And

49:43

then maybe let's start identifying just

49:45

one area , not a whole life overhaul

49:47

, but one area where you start practicing a better

49:49

boundary for yourself . Yeah , hold that

49:51

muscle up and then it builds , and it builds and it

49:53

builds . But understanding that

49:56

this has been ingrained in us

49:58

for centuries , we're not going to , in one

50:00

workshop , in one training , in one retreat

50:02

, in one book , change this

50:04

superwoman mentality . And so again , it's

50:07

the retiring , it's the recovering

50:09

, it's the ING of it . Like

50:11

I'm intentionally using this , you know words

50:13

matter to me . I'm intentionally using

50:15

the ING in these words

50:17

to understand that it is a process to help

50:19

, to get people permission to

50:21

take their time through this . And in

50:23

some cases they'd be like I don't want to work on being a

50:25

retiring superwoman , I don't have the capacity

50:27

for it . But the campaign

50:30

a little bit back to the campaign

50:32

. We partner with

50:34

local Black-owned businesses and

50:37

give people , melanated

50:39

, women , an opportunity to come in and

50:41

receive something or a discount on something

50:44

at no cost to them , to remind them you don't have to do anything to receive something or a discount

50:46

on something at no cost to them , to remind them like you don't have to do anything to

50:48

receive something kind , you don't have to do anything

50:50

to receive a gift , you don't

50:52

have to do anything to be loved on . And

50:54

so one of the places that we went was Brooklyn

50:57

Tea in

50:59

New York . Shout out to diversity

51:01

. Shout out to Ali Wright , one of my

51:03

hands and alum . You know , brothers

51:06

in the world , he's

51:08

a co-founder of Brooklyn Tea

51:10

, and so we had one evening

51:13

from five to seven . If you came

51:15

in , you got $10

51:17

off whatever thing you purchased , no

51:19

questions asked If you were a melanated

51:22

woman $10

51:24

off , no matter what it is yeah if

51:26

you want to know more about retiring superwoman , great

51:28

. If you just wanted to get the free thing and be out

51:30

, you get to do that as well , but it's

51:32

a space for people to just be poured

51:35

into with no strings attached . Yeah

51:37

, and so we did this with a few different um

51:39

businesses in

51:41

the area and they're looking to expand that

51:44

to other cities where we can just come in

51:46

and do you know retiring superwoman events

51:48

where you literally just get to come and get

51:50

loved on and get something free

51:53

that helps to calm your nervous system . So

51:55

, at the end of the day , it's a very big piece

51:57

of it , right , like figuring out how , as

52:00

retiring superwoman , superwomen how do

52:02

we start calming our nervous system ? How

52:04

do we start engaging our different senses

52:07

in a way where we're not always upregulated

52:09

, we're not always on alert , we're not always

52:11

on the ready , we're not always staying

52:14

ready , so we don't have to get ready because

52:16

I'm like , basically , we just saying we always

52:19

activated and you should ? yeah , right

52:21

, and so we pick organizations

52:24

and we pick businesses that

52:26

can tap into one of your five senses

52:28

, and so offering a gift to you to tap into

52:30

one of your five senses , and again at

52:32

no cost to you , because you should not

52:35

have to pay . Yeah , we

52:37

explore some of these things .

52:39

Yeah , so , yeah , I

52:42

love that and a couple of things I love that and a couple of things

52:44

I love how that's one feeding into this

52:46

larger conversation around the fact

52:49

that so many of our third spaces

52:51

are disappearing . So many people are

52:53

staying home or they're going to work

52:55

, but the third space where they connect

52:57

with people , where they practice

52:59

community care or self-care , is just

53:01

like disappearing . So even

53:03

in doing this work , you're recreating

53:06

those spaces . But

53:16

I also firmly believe that as much as trauma can be generational , so can healing and so

53:18

can joy . And I love the tools that so many of us are employing

53:20

now to experience

53:23

, now , to live in our bodies , now to pass

53:25

on to nieces and nephews

53:28

and children , and it just

53:30

makes me hopeful , especially during

53:32

a time where I don't have a lot of hope because

53:34

the world is crazy about

53:36

what the future might hold like , what a new

53:38

generation or generations of healing

53:41

will look like down the line . So I

53:44

love this idea of

53:46

giving us permission to

53:49

set aside or acknowledge

53:52

, but also give ourselves a break from

53:54

the things that we've carried either in our own

53:56

lives or that are passed down

53:58

to us , that we didn't ask for , and

54:01

charting a new course . So I love that

54:03

.

54:04

I got goosebumps when you said healing

54:06

is generational , joy is generational

54:09

. Like when we finish this I'm going to probably go

54:11

write something about that , I will absolutely

54:13

credit you with it . But that just

54:15

gave me so much joy because

54:17

we always talk about , like you

54:20

know , the comms in both of us , like the communication

54:22

between both of us , talk about

54:24

the problem , talk about the solution . It

54:26

was about trauma's generation . Let's our generational trauma

54:29

. We're breaking generational curses yeah yeah

54:31

, I was like what if we just talk

54:33

about building generational healing ? That

54:36

? Just thank you for that . Yeah

54:38

, yeah , like , and not to talk about

54:40

generational curses , but to be like , let's

54:43

talk about generational gifts , yeah

54:45

, yep , let's talk about generational curses . But to be like

54:47

, let's talk about generational gifts , yeah , yep

54:49

, let's talk about generational legacies , and so that , yeah

54:51

, healing is generational , joy is generational

54:54

. You'll see that again . You'll

54:58

see that again , aaliyah .

55:00

Okay , gosh Ashante , this

55:02

has been so good . I know we're

55:04

almost at time , so I just want to wrap up

55:06

with some last questions . And

55:08

then you know , have you share where

55:11

the folks can find you ? I

55:13

feel like you shared

55:15

so much , a lot already , about

55:17

what this path has taught you so far

55:20

. Just a lesson

55:22

that comes to mind right now , or

55:25

advice that comes to mind right now

55:27

, just given your experiences

55:29

launching the axon group , launching

55:31

susu house , doing the retiring

55:34

superwoman campaign , working

55:36

on the recovering perfectionist

55:38

work and writing a book like

55:40

what is what ? Is something that kind of comes

55:42

to you right now in terms of a lesson you've

55:44

learned or advice you'd love to share to someone

55:47

who wants to chart their own path as well

55:49

?

55:51

Release knowing how it's going to work

55:53

out . Release

55:55

knowing how it's going to play out . I'm

56:00

literally telling myself , like that's not

56:02

advice I'm giving to other people , it's a lesson

56:04

for me , yes

56:08

, especially in the last couple of months . Like what

56:10

you mean release , the expectation

56:13

of it looking a certain way , and

56:17

just because it may not look the way

56:19

you wanted or anticipated

56:21

or planned or planned for or

56:24

desired . One , does it mean

56:26

it wasn't successful ? Yes , and

56:29

two , does it mean that

56:31

you're not doing exactly what you're supposed to be doing

56:33

? Yes , yeah

56:36

. Because

56:38

the things that are put in us

56:40

, that are entrusted to us , to

56:42

be birthed into the world like . Not everyone

56:45

gets the same ideas , not everyone

56:47

gets the same epiphanies

56:49

, and if you've been blessed to have one in any

56:51

capacity , that means you're entrusted

56:53

with it .

56:54

Yeah .

56:55

And so that also means you're entrusted

56:57

with it , because it's there to teach you something

57:00

as well , and so like doing

57:02

all of these things and also understanding , because

57:14

at one point . I was like I'm doing all these different

57:16

things and how scattered do I look ? I'm like actually

57:18

, no , there's a through line in all of these human

57:21

giving myself permission to pause , giving

57:23

myself permission to make mistakes , giving myself

57:25

permission to fail , giving myself

57:27

permission to not know how it's going to play

57:29

out , giving myself permission to pivot

57:32

. Yes , this route isn't

57:34

going the way I thought it would . I can pivot

57:36

and that's still . All

57:38

of these entities and platforms are

57:40

a constant teacher and reminder of

57:42

that for me , so I would want to offer that

57:45

to other folks as well .

57:50

I really do hope that you're listening

57:52

to your own advice in this moment .

57:54

So anyone listening , if you ever see this

57:56

, give you permission now to you

57:59

know , hold me accountable . You're like maybe that's

58:01

it On the podcast . You're not doing it

58:03

. I'm like you're right . Yeah , don't

58:06

know you , but thank you for sharing .

58:08

You're right , yeah , yeah

58:27

, you're right , talking about , you know

58:29

, just reevaluating the relationship

58:31

with God and recognizing that

58:33

God has changed . That

58:35

stays with me all the time , because

58:37

if one thing , there's one thing

58:39

that's going to happen in life , these

58:41

things are going to change .

58:43

No , actionists don't like change

58:45

. Yeah

58:48

, you know what healing requires .

58:50

Change and being able to evolve

58:53

and grow with that , despite the discomfort

58:55

, you know , in spite of the discomfort . Okay

58:58

, lord , okay yeah

59:00

.

59:02

It happens to me there's two . Enjoy

59:04

it .

59:05

Yeah , it's hard

59:08

. It's hard , but it's not necessary . Some

59:12

days it's a rage room .

59:17

Sometimes it's Annie up , sometimes

59:19

it's not . Yeah

59:22

, I'm there , let me stop there .

59:25

All right , Ashante . So

59:29

let me just ask you what is bringing

59:31

you joy in this season , right now ? I

59:33

know a lot of things are going on

59:36

, but what is one thing that's

59:38

giving you just joy right

59:40

now ? Comfort .

59:42

In this exact moment , it's my

59:44

dog . He keeps trying to joke about it

59:47

. He's going to make

59:49

an appearance , oh , Podcast

59:52

.

59:54

He's not Gru . He literally keeps like oh

59:56

, okay , it's up to you . Okay , if you're watching on

59:58

video , you get to see Little Bishop

1:00:00

. My God , he's the cutest . Aww

1:00:03

, I just wanted to give his

1:00:05

mommy some kisses , yeah .

1:00:07

He's bringing a lot of joy to

1:00:09

me right now . The other thing

1:00:12

the sun yes , like a lot of joy to me right

1:00:14

now . The other thing the sun yeah , like I find myself

1:00:16

going outside and

1:00:18

just standing in the sun yes

1:00:20

and just just standing

1:00:23

in the sun and , and , yeah , having

1:00:26

those moments of really deep gratitude

1:00:28

, like again . Like I said , you know I'm from the south

1:00:30

. I'm very , very uh

1:00:32

, prayers that my grandma

1:00:35

and great grandmas and like the , the

1:00:37

aunties and deaconess would pray

1:00:39

that . I'm just grateful that I woke up in

1:00:41

my right mind , I'm grateful that my lips , I'm

1:00:43

grateful that yeah I was like

1:00:46

why would you pray , why would you be thankful

1:00:48

for that ? like that's a given ? No , it's not

1:00:50

. No , yeah , yeah . And

1:00:52

so what's bringing me joy is

1:00:55

remembering those very

1:00:57

basic privileges that I

1:00:59

have the ability to breathe air without

1:01:01

fear , the ability to eat without

1:01:04

concern or

1:01:06

worry , the ability to actually be in

1:01:08

my my right mind , to

1:01:10

be able to walk outside and stand in the sun and

1:01:13

not worry about my safety . That

1:01:15

does bring me joy , deep

1:01:17

gratitude and deep joy .

1:01:20

Yeah , I love that . I spoke

1:01:22

on a recent episode about just doing

1:01:24

some grounding work , like going in

1:01:27

the grass barefoot , just

1:01:29

releasing whatever I was feeling to

1:01:31

the earth and just letting the sun hit

1:01:33

me and taking it in slowly

1:01:35

wherever I felt the warmth and being very

1:01:37

overly present with my body

1:01:40

, and so I love that . Shante

1:01:42

, thank you so much . This has been such

1:01:44

a beautiful conversation . I appreciate

1:01:47

you so much . Can you let the folks

1:01:49

know where to find you

1:01:51

, where to support your work ?

1:01:54

Can you let the folks know where to find

1:01:56

you , where to support your work ? Gosh of the three websites of

1:01:58

the three organizations .

1:01:59

List them all . List them all . Baby yes .

1:02:00

Yeah , so you have the Axon . I know this will

1:02:02

go in your link in the section so

1:02:10

Axon group . If you want to do some coaching

1:02:12

work Honestly , you know what ? How people can

1:02:14

support me , because I'm just the name of the thing . Also , I used to

1:02:16

be messy in the ask . See , I'm practicing what I'm doing now . I had

1:02:18

no Do it , do it . The

1:02:21

way I would love for people to support is to donate

1:02:23

to the Susu House .

1:02:24

Yes .

1:02:25

And you can actually go to susuhouseorg

1:02:27

and donate , because

1:02:30

all of the money that people donate

1:02:32

literally goes right back out into

1:02:35

the community to do healing

1:02:37

events , to do healing retreats , to

1:02:39

do healing workshops , to give scholarships

1:02:41

to people if they want to go to other practitioner

1:02:44

healing retreats and workshops and they can't afford

1:02:47

it the scholarships for folks to be

1:02:49

able to go . Do those types of things Like if

1:02:51

you've ever had a woman , if you've

1:02:53

ever had a super woman in your life that loved on you

1:02:55

, nurtured , you , cared for you , got you through

1:02:58

, go donate . Yeah

1:03:00

, go , go donate as a way of first , go

1:03:02

tell them , thank you , first and foremost , go tell

1:03:04

that person , thank you , like , as soon as this podcast

1:03:06

ends , go . And then , secondly

1:03:08

, go donate to the Susu House

1:03:10

and that will allow us to do

1:03:12

more healing events . It'll allow me to do

1:03:15

more things in the community . It allows

1:03:17

us to support more practitioners . It'll allow us

1:03:19

to support more melanated women . It allows

1:03:21

us to do more retiring superwoman events

1:03:23

. Go donate $2,000

1:03:26

, $2,000 , $2 million . I will take

1:03:28

$2 million . And if you know somebody

1:03:30

who's willing , a corporation

1:03:33

organization , y'all trying to do some healing equity

1:03:35

work . You work at a company that's trying to do some

1:03:38

healing , equity work and they want to do a scholarship

1:03:40

donation . Send us the money

1:03:42

, send it to us , yes , yes , I'm

1:03:44

going to ask for all the things now . I want that . Yeah

1:03:47

, anyone who's on a news

1:03:50

talk show y'all know Tamron , y'all

1:03:52

know Sherry , y'all know anybody

1:03:54

who want to pick this up so we can

1:03:57

make this national and help more people

1:03:59

. Hit them up . Yep , send it

1:04:01

to them , get them involved

1:04:03

, help me , help me , help

1:04:05

. Yes , yeah , please

1:04:09

use your network to help me heal

1:04:11

melanated women .

1:04:13

Yes , I love that and I will

1:04:15

make sure I link to

1:04:17

Sisu House in the show notes and

1:04:19

ask folks to support your

1:04:22

work and to make a donation , and

1:04:24

I speak on the show

1:04:26

all the time about fostering community and

1:04:28

how we can show up for each other . So

1:04:30

if you're listening and you feel

1:04:32

called to support in this way

1:04:35

, please do . That's

1:04:37

the end of our episode . Thank you , ashante

1:04:40

.

1:04:41

Feels like we just had lunch , like these are what our

1:04:43

lunches sound like A

1:04:46

working lunch or working in

1:04:48

quotes ?

1:04:50

This is beautiful . You're

1:04:52

just a breath of fresh air

1:04:54

and so wise and even with all the things that you

1:04:56

carry , the fact that you can inspire

1:04:58

others is just a testament

1:05:01

to the woman you are . So I appreciate

1:05:03

you . I appreciate this time with you and

1:05:06

, yeah , this has been great . I hope that anyone

1:05:08

listening that you also feel inspired

1:05:11

and , yeah , thank you

1:05:13

.

1:05:14

Can I just say , like Aaliyah , you're

1:05:17

absolutely amazing . You know I'm big on giving

1:05:19

people their flowers in real life

1:05:21

. No , you are . You are one of the smartest

1:05:23

people that I know . You

1:05:26

are so creative and so caring

1:05:28

and so courageous

1:05:31

. You are truly charting your own path

1:05:33

and from the woman that I met

1:05:35

to the woman that I'm seeing now , that

1:05:38

courage and that power is palpable

1:05:41

. And you are

1:05:43

doing this podcast and it is a

1:05:45

healing modality . It is a healing

1:05:47

platform for both yourself and other people

1:05:49

and just , I don't

1:05:52

think people give enough credit

1:05:54

to someone having an idea and then bring it to

1:05:56

fruition Like that takes so

1:05:58

much work and so much audacity

1:06:00

and so much tenacity and so much courage

1:06:02

. And you have that in spades and

1:06:05

I am so thankful for you and I am so

1:06:07

grateful for you and I am so

1:06:09

blessed to consider you a friend and to

1:06:11

be able to witness you on this journey . And I think people listening

1:06:13

to your you a friend and to be able to witness you on this journey and I think people listening

1:06:15

to your podcast would feel the same

1:06:17

way , like you are a

1:06:20

trailblazer , change making , powerhouse

1:06:23

, dope ass woman and

1:06:26

thank you for allowing us to

1:06:28

experience your brilliance .

1:06:42

Thank you . I wasn't expecting to cry so I'm going to stop the recording

1:06:44

. Okay , now that I've composed

1:06:46

myself . Ashanti , I

1:06:48

just want to say thank you for

1:06:51

coming on the show . I loved

1:06:53

having you on as a guest . Thank

1:06:56

you for being an incredible friend

1:06:58

, an incredible mentor

1:07:00

and leader and such a special person

1:07:02

in my life . To everyone

1:07:04

listening , I hope that

1:07:06

you enjoyed this episode . If it spoke

1:07:09

to you , if it resonated with you , please

1:07:11

share it with someone in your network . Please

1:07:14

consider Ashanti's call to action . The

1:07:16

Susu House is doing

1:07:19

such incredible work in

1:07:21

the community and

1:07:23

it's such an important resource and important

1:07:25

tool and in many cases , a

1:07:27

lot of the funding , a lot of the grants

1:07:30

and all kinds of things are so gatekept

1:07:33

and hard for women-owned

1:07:36

businesses to access Black

1:07:38

women-owned businesses to access marginalized

1:07:40

communities period , and

1:07:43

it would be world-changing

1:07:45

to really get to Sue House the funding

1:07:47

that it deserves . If you feel inspired

1:07:50

, if you have it within your

1:07:52

resources to do so , please consider a

1:07:54

donation . If that's not in

1:07:56

your wheelhouse , but maybe you know six

1:07:58

degrees of separation , you have someone

1:08:00

in your network who knows someone who knows someone

1:08:02

else . Let's get Susu House the recognition

1:08:05

it deserves in

1:08:14

today . If you enjoyed this episode . You can send us a text message using the link in the

1:08:16

show notes . You can send in a voice note with your thoughts . Have

1:08:19

an opportunity to have your voice heard on

1:08:21

the podcast . I would love that you

1:08:24

can email the show . Email

1:08:26

me at podcast at the prolifichugcom

1:08:29

, to share any thoughts or feedback you have

1:08:32

and let's keep the conversation going

1:08:34

. I will catch you all

1:08:36

back here next week . Thanks

1:08:38

so much for tuning in .