0:00

before get started today we have

0:02

very message we wanted

0:04

to share a lot of you guys will remember, when

0:07

my son was in the nicu and how stressful

0:09

that situation was, and i am thankful

0:11

to this day for all your thoughts and all

0:13

your prayers and all your has

0:16

recently experienced a similar thing, her son

0:18

was born, and

0:20

he has been fighting and so

0:24

much better he's up to four which

0:26

is right but if

0:29

you've been through this kind of experience you know it's

0:31

expensive even when your medical

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bills are paid for by insurance

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the cost run off fast

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we have a go fund me that we are

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supporting if you guys want to support

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but definitely keep the family in

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thank you guys are being the best listeners

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the world

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with your budget grass and casualty insurance in

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affiliates comparison rates not available in all

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states or situations, john

1:18

bility area was 26 years

1:20

old when was murdered and

1:21

i

1:24

do

1:24

believe that this was a drug-related murder

1:31

real family's

1:34

real from lasting media

1:37

i'm jason be just as this

1:39

season taylor lautner the

1:41

unsolved murder of john howard's here

1:56

i'm brett

1:57

and i'm alice

1:58

and we are in the process

2:11

today on the prosecutors we

2:13

continue our look into the death of ellen

2:15

greenberg

2:49

everybody and welcome to this episode of

2:51

the prosecutors i'm barrette

2:54

and i'm joined as always bama

2:56

splendid co host

2:58

the us

2:59

hi right thanks for calling

3:01

me find it i am quite nice

3:03

the called me that affect the a full of i

3:05

can only if i told you that lacerate just know

3:07

that as hell splendid you are you disappointed

3:09

squared

3:10

wow your splendid

3:12

you are so splendid because you have just

3:15

been through the wringer so

3:17

i know of here on our facebook fan

3:19

page the gallery a lot of people expressed

3:21

a lot of concerns his breath been sick for

3:23

a long time i'll the get sick today but

3:25

guess he's sick his dog his

3:27

dog his covered and mike why is

3:29

happening to your house

3:30

the dog and not actually have go of it he

3:33

has some sort of respiratory illness it's unclear

3:35

what it is from sears like her fists

3:37

he's recovering nicely made yes

3:39

it's been it's been you know net

3:41

isn't a dog get sick if they're very whiny beasts

3:44

suffer fucking wow

3:46

how bad it was and

3:47

that see you now i didn't make that up when

3:50

i called by today to check on him he said my dog

3:52

has dogs have it

3:53

and i think what it sets up a seventy

3:55

i didn't realize how bad it was and tell

3:58

mrs bread was i can't we

3:59

up every couple of hours last night was

4:02

the dog was like oh my goodness

4:03

the very serious the he's been he's

4:06

is wise to complain of thing but we

4:08

as a madison he's he's downstairs

4:10

quarantining watching television

4:12

or something that he the either and he's doing good

4:15

were making it though i appreciate

4:17

everyone's concerned i feel great by

4:19

the way so those are you wearing that i was not going to make

4:21

it i feel great unreal i

4:23

whoever high glad you're finally healthy cause

4:25

i along with

4:26

your fans were really worried about you he

4:28

was touching go there for them are

4:31

now i'm sure him and other week who

4:33

knows center and the cats dogs can

4:35

visit assessed exactly exactly

4:37

as the earth that would be my like how have

4:39

dog of it's the roka of and does dog

4:42

while as were backing this week to talk

4:44

more about one of the really

4:47

most intriguing a mysterious cases i think

4:49

we're done the ellen greenberg

4:51

case we gave you just a taste

4:53

of it last week we went through the timeline

4:55

so the weird things but timeline we spent a lot of

4:57

home with the stab wounds so you just

4:59

have a really good sense of

5:02

how this woman died and how these

5:04

wounds won't matter how they were inflicted

5:06

that where they were inflicted and what that

5:08

says about how they were inflicted

5:10

in today over the next hour so

5:12

we didn't have even more into this and

5:14

the more details you learn about

5:16

this case the more

5:19

unusual i think you're going to see

5:21

this case

5:22

as well and hopefully sort of form

5:24

some opinions about one must have happened

5:26

here absolutely brats you know that when we

5:28

when we ended recording last time i had

5:30

so much more the

5:31

it was just the tip of the iceberg i think the two

5:33

of us kept asking for like another our it seemed

5:36

afterwards because this is a fascinating

5:38

case but we are going to try to demystify

5:40

at least what the tennis

5:43

public

5:44

you have why the case is so confusing

5:47

i think it gets less confusing when you look at the

5:49

facts so last week we finish our

5:51

with the wounds that were fatal wounds that

5:53

killed ellen but those are not the only

5:55

wounds that she had own her body

5:58

the autopsy revealed that

6:00

ellen had they'd large

6:03

number of bruises eleven

6:05

bruises at least on her right arm

6:08

the abdomen and right leg and

6:10

what the autopsy would describe

6:12

as various stages of resolution

6:15

in other words they didn't know happen

6:17

at the same time and they'll couldn't

6:19

have happened at the time of her

6:21

death then there wasn't much

6:23

time between when she was stabbed

6:26

and when she died so take a moment to sort

6:28

of take that in yeah so i mean

6:30

brett what you just sit there was pretty low

6:32

aladdin bruises those

6:34

eleven bruises or not inflicted

6:36

at the same time eleven bruises

6:39

or not inflicted at the same time as

6:41

the stab wounds and

6:43

they were in places that are

6:45

probably not siebel

6:48

when you were close and certainly not certainly winter

6:50

remember there was this big snow

6:52

storm coming through and so it's winter it's

6:54

january usually you're wearing

6:56

long pants long shirts and

6:58

sell the on the ledge and

7:01

the abdomen are all places that could be

7:03

covered up and people interacting

7:05

with you on a regular basis may

7:07

not even know that you have almost

7:09

a dozen bruises in those areas

7:12

i will talk about where the breezes were

7:14

l and had a three by four

7:16

centimeter bruise on her upper

7:19

right arm three by

7:21

one point five centimeter area

7:23

of three round bruises

7:26

on her right forearm see sort

7:28

of had an area on a right forearm

7:30

where they are these three bruises all

7:32

kind of group together and

7:35

you're gonna see them more as we continue to walk

7:37

through them there was a three by

7:39

three point five centimeter bruise on the

7:41

right lower quadrant of her

7:43

abdomen the vertical

7:45

row of round bruises

7:48

of two point five battery centimeters

7:51

four point five by three centimeters

7:53

in farber six centimeters on

7:56

her abdomen which is

7:58

i mean just think about that just

7:59

row of breezes as as they were made

8:02

sort of one after the other obama right

8:04

knee was a four point five by

8:06

three centimeter area of three

8:08

round bruises once again like a grouping

8:11

of bruises now when you hear all these bruises

8:13

uma think man would she be yeah maybe

8:15

she was strangled ohio a bone

8:18

and her thyroid cartilage were intact

8:20

though i would note given her

8:23

age she's only twenty six years old it

8:25

actually probably as the case that even

8:27

if she were strangled

8:29

the highway bone and her cartilage

8:31

would be intact it's sort of

8:33

a myth

8:35

that the highway bone always breaks

8:37

and strangulation the actual only happens about

8:39

thirty to forty percent of the time and

8:41

the younger you are the less

8:43

likely breakage is going

8:45

to happen as you get older basically

8:48

the bones in your throat they start to

8:50

calcify they become

8:52

more brittle is easier for them to be

8:54

broken see usually see that actually an older

8:56

individuals so obviously

8:58

if her high or bone were broken

9:00

that would tell a story it's not

9:02

that doesn't necessarily mean anything

9:05

now obviously these bruises

9:07

i mean it looks like this lady was be up but

9:09

as allison in places

9:12

that you wouldn't necessarily see the

9:14

and this something

9:17

to know which may or may not be

9:19

relevant in this case oftentimes

9:21

people who are abusive to others understand

9:24

that particular in our current society he

9:26

can't just be punching people on the face you

9:29

know if your bus and people's lives in your black

9:31

and people's eyes people going to know about

9:33

that and bad things are going to happen

9:35

to you so they're smart about it they

9:38

abuse people that actually tend to abuse them in places

9:40

where it won't be seen where

9:42

it's easy to cover it up van

9:45

allen was being abused but it is interesting

9:47

the locations these bruises

9:50

the way they're grouped together the way

9:52

they are and is alice mention

9:54

the fact that these didn't know happened

9:56

it was and even if he were

9:58

attacked even if you were brutally

10:01

attacked beaten up and stabbed

10:03

to death these bruises didn't

10:05

all happened that night you

10:07

know ever fact me maybe one or two of them did

10:10

but they didn't know happened that night or some

10:12

of these bruises free date

10:14

whatever it was happened to her that night

10:17

this was obviously raised of the police and said

10:19

hey what are you making this and they suggested well

10:21

maybe it comes from contact sports those

10:23

of you who play contact sports you go out and play

10:25

basketball with your friends or really

10:27

anything where there's any kind of contact you

10:30

going to have bruises you're going to look like your

10:32

beat up sometimes the problem was

10:34

while ellen at times had

10:36

been involved in some sports in think they're think college

10:38

he'd played flag football at

10:40

the time of her death she didn't really participate in any contact

10:42

sport she was into yoga that's what she did that

10:46

on the mean i don't claim to be into yoga

10:48

i do a good fit a yoga you

10:50

know it's it is not uncommon i guess

10:52

for me to the a breeze or two in

10:55

my body but not a dozen and what

10:57

i find really interesting is these are frowned

10:59

you know obviously the way your body reacts

11:01

to breezes is going to be different for each person depends

11:04

on that force use and what not but

11:06

the grouping and a location

11:09

britain i see a lot of pictures

11:11

victims pictures days then assaulted

11:14

or they've been her in some

11:16

way and this reminds me as someone

11:18

who is grabbed very forcefully what

11:20

they're trying to leave the situation and you grab

11:22

them around the waist that's a very

11:25

that's a very like power move

11:27

right usually when you're grabbing someone who might just be the arm

11:30

the highway i want to tell you something grabbing

11:32

the waste especially any she was a

11:34

slim young woman

11:36

and someone larger than her

11:39

could control her from the waist i

11:41

easily and is kind of

11:42

our apply to because your

11:45

ad demand is not a typical play

11:46

for like a stranger to touch with a very

11:49

personal place it's also

11:51

more effected as because it

11:53

houses organs then say your

11:55

arm that just has bone and

11:57

muscle cells the press

12:00

of the bruises on the ad

12:02

in there are particularly interesting

12:04

to me bee hive without

12:07

contact sports there's not

12:09

a lot of occasion for those

12:11

to

12:12

or in a pretty

12:14

sedentary life in the sense that she's a teacher

12:16

she's not you know construction worker or

12:18

someone he's lifting boxes a factory

12:21

all day where boxes may have to rest against your

12:23

abdomen in order to hoist them up to the

12:25

next level she is or

12:28

sitting standing teaching

12:30

talking the students not carrying

12:32

heavy loads and says that is

12:35

that area is very interesting to me

12:37

that she was have so many

12:38

is there and is a couple things

12:41

that i find interesting about this the first one to

12:44

reiterate something you just said if

12:46

it will ruin or to bruises then

12:48

i think you could dismiss this you could say look

12:51

we don't know how they happened things

12:53

happen in law who knows

12:55

right

12:56

but there are so many and maybe

12:59

maybe these are all

13:01

explainable in a completely innocuous

13:03

way you know one albums from when

13:05

a kid accidently kicked her and and

13:08

other ones were when she ran into

13:10

a table and the netherlands from yoga

13:12

or whatever and i mean

13:14

maybe they cannot be explained but you gotta do gotta lot of explaining

13:17

that's explaining lot of breezes all spread

13:19

out over a period of time and not that

13:21

great a period of time as celebrate his last forever

13:24

but over appears i'm probably week right you

13:27

know will embrace probably last about a week

13:29

the autopsy doesn't tell us a lot which is

13:31

one thing this kind of unfortunate i don't know

13:34

, much you really could tell us but a

13:36

little bit more detail on the bruises would have a nice for

13:38

we have what we have s of our things interesting

13:40

also i'll note that this shows

13:43

a pattern of conduct

13:45

is it was inflicted by someone else it's

13:47

not a one time thing otherwise we would see

13:49

all the bruises at one time this

13:51

suggests that it's something that happens regularly

13:54

probably on regularly daily basis

13:56

you know what say she gets system an innocent

13:58

thing like running into her counter

13:59

in her kitchen that dying countertop

14:02

always hits me at the same spot

14:04

every day you'd have to believe that she

14:06

runs into that countertop everyday

14:09

twelve days in a row eleven days in a row hard

14:12

enough to inflict a bruise in

14:14

a similar place a slightly different and

14:16

that that happens i wonder my counter all the time

14:18

but not eleven days in a row

14:20

with enough force to leave a breeze

14:22

every single day

14:23

and of the thick of things interesting and this is

14:26

not really connect to the braces so much as as the case

14:28

in general throw interesting about

14:30

this case is there no eyewitnesses

14:32

to what happened there very if he really witnesses

14:35

period there's very little that people can

14:37

tell us about what happened

14:39

that day this is really a mystery

14:41

and a puzzle and a circumstantial

14:43

thing in circumstantial way that's i

14:45

think feels that's little different from most cases we

14:47

do and we really are trying

14:49

to put together a puzzle of

14:52

what happened that day based on

14:54

this disparate information and we're starting

14:56

with sort of the evidence from her body

14:58

the things we see from her body we're gonna move

15:00

from that in a similar things as

15:02

well but just were mentioning

15:05

these things don't assume

15:07

that any of the mean anything there's

15:09

there's a lot of self we're gonna talk about it may mean

15:11

something it may be completely random these

15:14

bruises could all be completely random and

15:16

what you have to do and you trying to figure out what happened

15:18

and in which he have to do a lot of times in the law

15:20

review was kind of cases is you

15:23

have a piece of evidence a single piece of

15:25

evidence which alone might mean

15:27

something and might mean nothing the bruises

15:29

alone could mean someone's

15:31

abusing her could mean she's

15:34

clumsy then there's

15:36

nothing in the bruises themselves

15:38

that answer that question for you we

15:40

can't know based on that alone so what you

15:42

have to do is keep that in your head and as

15:44

we look at all the rest the if it

15:46

fits or if it's something you can just throw away and i think that's

15:48

organ to have to do with all this evidence

15:50

as we sort of get through it the breezes

15:53

who knows how they happened

15:56

there were to talk about some loons that she

15:58

didn't have

15:59

yeah so we've talked

15:59

how

16:01

kenshin devastating these twenty stab

16:03

wounds worse and then he's eleven bruises

16:05

in various stages of resolution on her body was

16:07

taught about a lot of wounds but

16:10

, we don't see and what we might

16:12

expect to see s l and was

16:14

attacked our defensive wounds

16:17

as she had no defense

16:19

wounds at all she had no wounds

16:21

on her hand on

16:24

her has no signs you know usually

16:26

look enter the nail see if someone is

16:28

trying to fight back you find dna if someone

16:30

underneath the victims nails because the

16:33

coin back trying to gain some sort

16:35

of facts into fight back a lot

16:37

of stabbing victims if they are being attacked

16:39

you'll see stab wounds on their hands because snap

16:42

really our instinct is to put our hands up to

16:44

our face to protect our more important

16:46

bodily part which is the brain in the face and

16:49

you'll see that the knives or into the hands

16:51

when you instinctual put your hands up

16:53

to defend yourself and fatty was it something you think

16:55

about that's why having spent self

16:58

fulfilling were attacked you

17:00

would think that there be

17:01

some sort a sign of her

17:03

fighting back but even

17:05

the absence

17:06

have any wounds on her hands is

17:08

actually very unusual for guard

17:10

list of whether she inflicted the stab wounds on

17:12

herself or someone else a cluster and

17:15

box which has given the nature of the knife

17:17

remember it's a serrated kitchen nice

17:20

with no guard on the here adult to protect

17:22

your hands

17:23

so think of a sword like a samurai

17:25

sword there's usually like there's the

17:27

grip and then there's like

17:29

a flat almost plate looking saying

17:32

so that the blade has

17:34

a stopper between your hand and the blade

17:37

and that's because the samurai sword as met for like

17:39

stabbings and when they're

17:41

or inertia your hands going

17:43

to want to move forward unless there's

17:45

something that stops it same of the kitchen knife

17:47

sticks to nice is meant to and a saw

17:49

back and forth like on a speak it's not

17:52

meant for stabbing and so therefore

17:54

the the state nice doesn't have

17:56

a guard on the end of the handle between handled

17:58

in the blade and so

17:59

if you were trying to stab

18:02

yourself with enough for

18:03

it's to go through your vertebra to

18:06

go through you know your heart to go

18:08

through your

18:09

doubt you would expect us a lot

18:11

of force and that your hand with

18:13

slip at some point in those twenty

18:15

stab wounds and meet the serrated

18:17

blade of the nice and cause wounds

18:20

on your hand and

18:22

, it's remarkable based on the number

18:24

of stab wounds that allen had an awkward

18:27

manner in which she was stabbed remember she is

18:29

she has dad the back of her next to would have

18:31

to reach behind her and

18:33

with enough force to be able to force that nice

18:35

into her the back of her neck and head

18:38

that it's just remarkable that her head

18:40

never slipped from the handle

18:42

the handle to the serrated part

18:44

of the blade to cut herself

18:47

to cause some wounds so know

18:50

that it's it's it's easy as their defense it was also

18:52

interesting that she has no accidental

18:54

wounds from the nice slipping if

18:56

she were to have inflicted on herself now

18:59

equally unusual is that a

19:01

one could be stabbed in the chest and

19:03

the back of the neck twenty times and

19:06

just have nothing to show that she fought

19:08

for her life so all of this

19:10

is very very interesting whether

19:13

she stabbed herself or was stabbed by

19:15

someone only this is crazy every news

19:17

is one of the craziest things about this case

19:19

because i just got italia

19:21

the fact that she has no wounds on her hands

19:24

is really weird to me and

19:27

it's so important and this is a

19:29

piece of evidence at all so often gives miss

19:31

characterize in other cases the

19:34

a person will have occurred on their hands

19:37

they'll say or someone

19:39

else will say well that's evidence that they fall back

19:42

what if you look at the car you realize now that's

19:44

actually the nice slipping in their own hands

19:46

that's where they came from

19:48

if they fight back a lot of times it's not a slashing

19:50

wearing it to stab wound it's a puncture wound you can

19:52

be a slashing the la times

19:55

if it's a flashing way and you massey and slashing across

19:57

several fingers right

19:59

or as if you're holding an artist imagine you're holding a knife

20:02

and you try and stamps something multiple

20:04

times and your hands slips up when

20:06

you're going to cut basically one maybe two fingers

20:08

and gonna cut it in a straight line and

20:11

you would expect to see that the issue

20:13

is hard to imagine someone stabbing

20:15

themselves between their vertebrae they're

20:18

stabbing themselves into their skull the

20:20

stabbing themselves and the chest with

20:22

a steak knife

20:24

it's sharp yeah cause it's

20:26

not really meant to stab people with in

20:29

your stabbing and you're pulling that off and stabbing

20:32

important enough out twenty terms and

20:34

that nice never swift's

20:36

and kutcher he's

20:37

it's crazy alley that is crazy

20:40

the that didn't happen

20:41

but allow said equally crazy

20:43

it's as if if she were murdered it's

20:46

almost like she just kind of gave up she was stabbed

20:49

and she fell to the floor and if you look at the autopsy

20:52

the stab wounds aren't very well described

20:54

about one thing this seems

20:56

true if they're basically clean

20:59

coming in and out clean sab words

21:01

there's not a lot of movement in them which

21:05

hi new leads you to think this isn't

21:07

a murder because if it's a murder

21:09

and you're moving in are fighting back into

21:11

trying to dodge the blade the

21:13

wounds are going to be more jacket than are going to be

21:15

cleaned are gonna be i mean he just

21:17

think about it right if you're stabbing

21:20

someone there's gonna be some of

21:22

that damage that

21:24

is going to be indicative of someone moving

21:26

while they're stab vaginal see that with her actually

21:29

some people to believe it she's stabbing herself

21:31

but i mean it's

21:33

a weird one and this fact of

21:35

no injuries on the hands there has

21:38

to be an explanation for that maybe

21:40

it's just by some miracle she stab yourself twenty

21:42

times in the most awkward way possible including

21:44

and or skolan that and the knife never slept

21:46

maybe that doesn't seem right to me

21:49

and you know that's a great point about

21:51

how clean the stab wounds are you know when we

21:53

went to the stab wounds we talked about how there was moved

21:55

there from the left to the right the right to the left etc

21:58

that is just movement

21:59

you can imagine your hand

22:02

kind of twisting of be rest

22:04

in order to pull the blade out that's the

22:06

type of movement we're talking about we're not talking

22:08

about like when you see

22:10

slash wounds were someone's running

22:13

and it awkwardly goes in one way and had of

22:15

twists inside your body because are trying to get

22:17

away and sues

22:19

the really interesting thing

22:20

even if alan being attacked

22:23

and she gave up so to speak by

22:25

she was like this is happening i'm not going to

22:27

fight back that still wouldn't be what

22:29

her wounds look right because

22:31

what i said earlier these motions

22:34

or instinctual you don't think

22:36

about them even if you mentally

22:39

gave up and weren't going to fight for

22:41

your life your body refuses to

22:43

give up because your body wants to live and

22:46

naturally you curl into a

22:47

eat or conditions your hands co op

22:50

you can't help but fight for your

22:52

life right like that's why it's really hard to drown

22:54

yourself say in just a bath tub to

22:56

stay underwater long enough because your body fight

22:58

against yourself

23:00

the forces you to take an air

23:02

why people do things like pie

23:05

wait to themselves if they really want to drown

23:07

themselves

23:07

because you're nature takes over near

23:10

it's really an exploitable i have a theory for what

23:12

happened they are headlight hear that

23:13

i really like your theory and i think it's it's

23:16

a good one because when i knew the sack

23:18

like ike i don't know i have no idea what happened

23:20

cities are now will have a theory rose

23:22

up and but it's something

23:24

something something and there's a reason for this

23:26

in i think it has retired what happened because ours

23:29

is one hundred percent right this would be

23:31

instinctual you would put your hands up this

23:34

would for your so my though the baseball at your face

23:36

not just going to stand and watch it and put your hands

23:38

up he was he can't stop it you know user

23:40

too late it's like why are there jump scares

23:42

because you can't control that reflects

23:45

his is a natural in but we will have

23:47

a year and it's crazy though that

23:50

sort of the wounds that

23:52

that around her body that is the story

23:54

that the autopsy can tell us

23:56

that's not much of a story lot of times

23:59

the entire story

23:59

the murder can be told an autopsy

24:02

this guy not so much

24:04

you can gonna see why the pathologist

24:07

when they're looking at the as the kind of going back and forth

24:09

on and they start with maybe it's a suicide

24:11

in there it's a homicide and later on the

24:13

going change the suicide

24:15

in their interpretation of what they are seeing

24:17

is going to be affected by things outside

24:19

of the body boss fact that have nothing

24:22

to do with what they're looking and

24:24

so let's talk about some of those with

24:26

about sam last week cm is

24:28

ellen fiance he

24:30

went to the gym he comes back many

24:32

fans l and dead but before

24:34

he finds her dad he has

24:37

some trouble he's trying to get back

24:39

into the apartment and for whatever reason ellen

24:42

or someone has engaged the bar

24:44

lock we talked about this before this before this

24:46

the deadbolt okay so

24:48

as not as if he can't open the door and

24:51

other have key to unlock the deadbolt this

24:53

is the hotel style bar

24:55

latch that allows you to open the door

24:57

maybe three inches it's like replaces

24:59

the people ride you can open it about branches

25:01

you can see somebody else replace the chain

25:03

lot he can see who's out there and then you can decide

25:06

whether you want to open it in the way open and close the door

25:09

he flipped the lads back and then you

25:11

can open the door so he gets home he

25:13

uses his key opens the door nude

25:15

just imagine ride he opened story pushes it

25:17

open and it's it's last guess that

25:19

three inches and and stops pieces come from

25:21

the gym is probably sweaty he's probably

25:23

tired he's want to come inside and

25:26

old son he can't get inside now there are

25:28

a couple ways you might react to this is something

25:30

like this happened to my the

25:32

worried he might be concerned what's going

25:34

on or uma be angry

25:36

well we have the text messages

25:38

that sam said to allen he tried to call or

25:40

a few times he tried to call her name verbally

25:43

a few times he sooner some emails

25:46

we don't know what he said when he called her her

25:48

when he was yelling our far we don't want emails

25:50

he sent her but we do have the text

25:52

here are the text over a period of about twenty

25:55

two minutes he sent these text the start

25:57

of five thirty two inning

25:59

and five

25:59

fifty four

26:01

the protect his

26:03

hello

26:04

she doesn't respond to that tax so

26:07

he follows up with

26:08

open the door so far so

26:11

good

26:12

then he says what are you doing

26:15

okay then he says i'm getting pissed

26:17

which

26:18

i mean if you're not concerned if your mind

26:20

doesn't immediately go to concern i

26:23

can see this rent out

26:25

of the gmc near go into the gmc

26:27

new york oh and back and whatever

26:29

sees do and whether she's used in the bathroom

26:32

or taken a shower or taking a nap

26:34

or on the phone with her mom whatever she's doing

26:37

she's close the door on you and your nail start

26:39

stands in the hallway like hallway moron morning

26:42

to get in says you get you little irritated

26:44

hello is the next test

26:47

now over again

26:48

the little questionable the next

26:50

one is

26:51

you better have an excuse

26:53

okay don't really know what that means

26:55

that's really as as as as an interesting

26:58

phrase to jump to fight but

27:00

the i'm getting pissed and then the jumping

27:02

to excuse you beginning to see

27:04

a pattern of the way they speak to each other

27:07

actually because that's not necessarily

27:09

how

27:10

everyone conversation flows know what is

27:12

you don't have an excuse what if she just made a mistake

27:15

what happens then

27:16

like why does or need to be explanation

27:18

either

27:19

yeah mean

27:20

i get i get it that you're mad i'm

27:23

not knocking him for being man

27:25

totally understand be in math i

27:27

would be irritated

27:29

oh absolutely would be irritated that would

27:31

i would not have seen something was wrong i

27:33

would be irritated avila what are the world you know i'm

27:35

i'm going back

27:36

larger it's in your phone at some point now

27:39

it's idea concerned rights and i guess

27:41

actually that's what's weird about this that's

27:43

what's weird about this that's i'm glad we're talking the three

27:46

i would start irritated and

27:48

then i would soar getting concern right

27:50

the initial it would it would make

27:52

way pretty quickly because remember he

27:54

saw her supposedly only thirty

27:56

minutes ago so and

27:58

and see suppose we the he just going

28:00

down to the gym which is within the building

28:03

if is not a situation where she thought

28:06

he was going to work maybe

28:08

downtown made it a thirty minute drive away

28:10

and so gives her enough time to i don't know have

28:12

another man over you know she knows he's

28:14

in the building not far away

28:16

it's weird to me that there's no tax

28:18

asking if she's okay earlier some point

28:21

i would say i would say are you okay

28:23

the money to say something like are you still live in their know

28:25

that would be sort of a joking one right but like

28:28

i would started texting what

28:30

away our sort of kind

28:32

of mocking li concerned and then be

28:34

more concerned like that would happen at some point in my

28:36

tax now another by the same or but

28:39

it was complained that we're trying to put ourselves those who pursues

28:41

but that's the way i would do it but that's

28:43

not what he does he says this you better have an excuse

28:45

which tells me by the way that that is the

28:47

way they talk is alice said i'm in this is a window

28:50

and how they thought when he gets upset

28:53

the been around here for me was i mean what the eff

28:55

is his next one ah which is weird

28:58

a h h h

29:00

the whole thing

29:01

the final season i'll

29:03

yeah

29:05

the little kid jackets

29:07

be our honeymoon sylvie a r

29:09

g h biotic somebody

29:11

else also h

29:12

if i had seen the now as

29:14

a person latter know it it's a it's a weird

29:17

it's like you're whining

29:18

yeah and then he says you have no idea

29:21

in and like i said i mean these people from philadelphia

29:23

you guys in philadelphia crazy though battery

29:25

that santa claus and ,

29:27

stuff like that so who knows maybe this

29:29

is the way people thought it or this is loving conversation

29:32

in philadelphia idol now with the

29:34

me these last few

29:37

tanks are really comforting and

29:39

really comforting don't want overreact to bunch attacks

29:41

but they really concerning because they seem to

29:43

present a certain dynamic

29:45

in this relationship where

29:48

she is expected to always be on the ball

29:50

doing what he was and when she doesn't

29:52

he gets angry and you know

29:55

they're going to be consequences for this minutes what

29:57

he saying they're going to be consequences you better

29:59

have an excuse you have no idea

30:01

they're going to be consequences for the fact that seem

30:03

last the door why our it happened accidentally

30:06

or not

30:06

you better get ready him because whenever she does open

30:09

that door he's not just going to be irritated

30:11

her he's and we pretty mad know what that

30:13

means with their relationship and him i

30:15

have no idea but it's pretty clear

30:18

to me that he is

30:20

pretty raids field by this

30:22

by he's also with interesting these

30:26

tax or a cover up that

30:29

he had stabbed her before he left

30:31

and , knew that she was dead on

30:34

the inside would you send text

30:36

like this that show your rage why

30:38

wouldn't you see and staged tax

30:40

that show what are concerned and loving

30:43

and caring boyfriend you are to

30:45

that also really confusing to me

30:48

that there would be there would

30:50

is in fact he's he's staging them

30:52

right instead of sending like what the

30:54

ass and you have no idea

30:56

you better have an excuse they are kind of threatening

30:58

tax i would probably say

31:00

something online of hey baby

31:03

are you in their i'm really getting worried now

31:05

the doors awesome me inside i can't get enough

31:07

please answer me if you're on the phone

31:09

give me a sign let me know i'm just kind of getting

31:11

free got out here you know something to

31:13

show the euro loving caring

31:15

boyfriend with a fantastic point and

31:18

it's one that i feel like as missile are times

31:20

when conversation about this people talk

31:22

about the anger these tags but

31:26

they don't see my account attacks you would

31:28

see and if you had just murdered someone in your trying to gov

31:31

they don't feel like that they feel real

31:34

and they fit i think they're

31:36

when we get the theories that think they're basically

31:38

three possible theories in this case they

31:41

fit one of them but maybe not the other

31:43

two

31:44

i'm laughing just really bad a viking

31:46

is right behind

31:47

another thing to think about

31:49

that see him and allen are going

31:51

to like we

31:52

the lot attacks between men and

31:55

if anyone were to look at either of their phones

31:58

is probably gonna be gonna long history hacks

32:01

and perhaps this isn't

32:03

how he normally talk to her and if

32:06

he were to switch up how he talks to her maybe

32:08

that would be more concerning than

32:10

if he spoke to her how he always speaks

32:12

to her and it's kind of like a lot of oil

32:14

been talking about is really hard taken

32:17

in isolation to figure out what this means and

32:19

what's going on good we just don't have enough information

32:21

we don't have enough information about the way they did talk to each

32:24

other this is a little off topic and if

32:26

at all the server for you consult me alice but

32:28

my criminal law professor who's

32:30

alan dershowitz used to tell a story

32:33

about how he had a guy

32:36

who are a police officer is basically frame

32:38

the sky the police officer was involved in some

32:41

shady dealings in some drug dealings and

32:44

he had framed one of the people who was

32:46

also involves the that guy would take the fall

32:48

there was a third guy

32:50

to the defense and fail and he was kind

32:52

of their inside man so

32:54

they wired this guy

32:56

they sent him an to record

32:58

a conversation with his com to the go in

33:01

this dude is is recording the conversation

33:03

with a cop is saying all sorts of

33:05

incriminating stuff so

33:08

then they come back and the tape

33:10

is really bad

33:11

and i can only hear part of what's home attacks

33:14

and so they asked the guy they

33:17

transcribe it basically and

33:19

their gas and so

33:21

they asked the guy who was there feel

33:23

in what's in the gaps for us

33:25

because what they were going to do the cops gonna be on the sand

33:28

there were in a confront him with this conversation and

33:31

so what dershowitz wanted to be able to do

33:33

you want to say did you tell johnny age

33:35

excellency

33:37

in see the cops reaction

33:39

and so this guy johnny

33:42

was you john into that we're gonna sit there

33:44

with a transcript and he starts riding in what

33:46

they said and when they read what he wrote in

33:49

he was completely different from everything else with everything else

33:51

i like f bombs in it and all sorts

33:53

of coarse language and then what he wrote him with

33:55

very nice improper and they're like none of them you

33:58

have to right exactly

33:59

what he said don't be embarrassed right exactly

34:02

what he said because this nobody's going to buy

34:04

this that he said this

34:06

that a second time the gas i down and he wrote it actually

34:08

what they said with although the coarse language

34:10

and the bombs and everything else and then when they can

34:12

front of a cop with it it works really well and

34:15

maybe it is something similar here like ours are saying

34:17

that he knew if all the son he's all

34:19

lovey dovey unisex and he's never like that

34:21

that would be a problem for him and that would give him

34:23

a reason to basically texture the same

34:26

way he always did

34:27

i'm of you may think while he could just deleted her tax

34:30

i think s they looked at his and her

34:32

phones and all the text have been deleted

34:34

that what also draw attention to him so if

34:36

he didn't want to show how he talked to her before so

34:39

i think she couldn't delete all the previous

34:41

tax if he was staging this

34:43

and does feel

34:46

trudeau may be house he talked to

34:48

her like why would he

34:50

he usually talks loving how of a sudden

34:52

talk really pissed off rights especially

34:54

right before elena sound dead so i

34:56

see there's a possibility that

34:58

he knows that there can't be

35:00

no tax between and the can't be deleted or whites

35:02

and also he probably always talked to

35:04

her this way maybe he was smart enough to know

35:07

that if he sinner really mean text messages

35:09

everywhere i would say what he would never do that

35:12

if he was fake and at you and sin mean text

35:14

messages it is really depends on how mind

35:16

if you're staging a murder how well you thinking

35:18

it through right mean

35:21

i don't know it's the gets an interesting question

35:24

there's one you have to tackle here because either

35:26

this is a suicide or stage murder

35:29

really those are the only options as a third option

35:31

ran talk about but there's a really the most

35:33

likely options

35:34

and we have to analyze these test because these

35:36

texts are happening on the other side

35:38

of the door where ellen is dead re

35:41

and so at this is as

35:43

she either way dad or lay dying

35:46

and and unlikely while

35:49

he was said to me tax the stabbing

35:51

was happening because he probably could

35:53

have heard things because remember the door can

35:55

be a jar and he didn't hear

35:58

anyone been stabbed or anyone trying to

35:59

the way or any struggle

36:01

and look this cases

36:04

uncomfortable in one big way and

36:06

i wish he'd go and talk about it

36:08

there could be a perfectly

36:10

innocent person who suffered an incredibly

36:13

tragic loss and as a victim

36:15

as much as allen and has had to deal with

36:17

the fact that his fiance who he loved

36:20

killed , for reasons he can't understand

36:23

months before they were and get married that

36:25

is a hundred percent possible and

36:28

yet in talking about her case

36:30

you have to talk about him then you have

36:32

to analyze him and this is this the difficulty

36:34

in true crime a just is and

36:36

people get all squishy about it sometimes and squeamish

36:39

about it but if you're looking for truth

36:41

sometimes they're hard questions have to ask in sometimes

36:43

you have to ask hard questions of people who may

36:45

be perfectly innocent in fact most

36:48

of the time

36:49

in any investigation into any crime

36:51

they're going to be times quite

36:54

often wears an innocent person is

36:56

met is mixed up in it somehow and

36:58

you have to ask them tough questions that's

37:00

how you figure out that they are an innocent person

37:02

new move on

37:04

that's pretty much every case and it's unfortunate

37:06

that sam has a deal with

37:08

this for the fact the matter is as we said

37:10

before this is an ongoing case

37:13

and ongoing investigation or a talk about

37:15

how it's an ongoing investigation is we go but

37:17

this is not a goal case and it's not a case

37:19

it's over and this is not a which ah it

37:22

these are the questions of people are going to have to

37:24

answer they're going to figure out what

37:26

happened to l

37:31

hello there my name is alison dixon

37:33

and i like the dark for many years

37:36

i've applied this love to writing horror and

37:38

thriller fiction but with my new podcast

37:40

ding dong darkness

37:41

i am i relish the opportunity to explore

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the shadowy quarters of a real life fight

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and inaccessible and friendly way each

37:48

season of the show as a deep dive on

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a particular time

37:51

with very special guests along

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for the ride one such guess was actually

37:55

bread from the prosecutors season

37:57

one explored multiple honey aspects

37:59

of

37:59

or even to covered the works

38:02

with stephen king

38:02

the upcoming season three will be

38:04

all about cold

38:06

future see them also include gangsters

38:08

more but hollywood death which was

38:10

true crime

38:11

no much more

38:12

the brickell throughout the season is a variety

38:15

of short take on the strange and unusual

38:17

that is more the plumber party games harrowing

38:19

story for military history and

38:21

even murder actually

38:23

karaoke bar

38:24

the point the to say if you've ever read

38:26

the new story that me to go w e

38:28

h it'll likely land on my show

38:30

at some point

38:31

i don't over to apple start a fight

38:33

or wherever you get your podcasts and check

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out the don't darkness time and as i

38:37

always liked to say speakers you

38:40

little ding dong

38:41

the prosecutors podcast is pretty bad

38:43

aggressive let's face it sometimes

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multitasking can be overwhelming

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like when your favorite podcast is playing and

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the person next to you is talking and your

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okay let's move on with some

39:51

of the other things we know about

39:53

the scene let's talk about dna

39:56

now the knife was tested

39:58

for dna which is actually shot

39:59

brett because seem as between

40:02

like the day after i just got yeah nimble

40:04

if that happens but thankfully

40:06

they kept the nice and

40:07

good tested for dna

40:09

and only ellen's dna

40:11

came back so no

40:13

one else has dna was found on

40:15

a nice now if someone including

40:17

sam ever touched it and by the way

40:20

i don't think it would be that surprising

40:23

as sam's dna was found on this nice

40:25

because he lived in this apartment and this

40:27

was like a regular kitchen knife that

40:30

was probably used by both of them

40:32

so i'd wanna throw up throw it out there like i

40:34

wouldn't be surprised to see and dna was actually

40:37

on here now possible

40:40

that someone did touch the knife

40:42

and no dna with left behind

40:44

that he and happens it's

40:46

not like slime that

40:48

you see a trail of it everywhere it goes dna

40:51

testing has gotten much better and gets

40:53

better every single day by you have

40:55

to leave behind something

40:57

the be picked up for testing or we've

40:59

all watched movies tv

41:02

there are ways to keep your dna ah

41:04

things like nice right you can wear a glob

41:06

you can hold at this clause

41:09

you could wipe it down to

41:11

wipe off prince that is

41:13

not an uncommon strategy

41:15

can make sure your dna if not left behind

41:18

but all we know for sure here is that

41:20

we our you know

41:22

back at a positive on the night

41:24

and we talked about as a thousand times when

41:26

i'm going to belabor the point and dna it's

41:28

not as ubiquitous as you think it is like

41:31

our said this cuts both ways it

41:33

could be unusual that sam's dna

41:35

not on the knife

41:37

the living in that apartment it's not

41:39

only or maybe that indicates the knife is cleaned

41:41

this wouldn't be hard to do at all the

41:43

knife is sticking out of her chest wipe

41:46

the knife down put her hand on the knife

41:48

vinegar fingerprints and eager

41:51

dna

41:52

though to me this doesn't tell us

41:54

alive now obviously

41:56

if someone elses dna were on the knife that would

41:58

be significant the back that it's not

42:00

is a slight point toward suicide

42:03

is opposed to murder but a very

42:05

slight one certainly not a slam dot

42:08

certainly doesn't push me one where the other

42:10

one thing to note about this knife you guys can take

42:12

a look at the picture as it any is

42:14

just the pictures i can't totally verify

42:17

what type of the grip it is

42:19

but there seems to be some slight knobs

42:22

s stick our it is not a smooth mirrored

42:24

surface and the fact that there

42:26

are different

42:27

added gradations of the

42:29

the handle mean it's gonna be harder to

42:32

find dna on it we talked about this allies

42:34

guns really hard to lift prints off

42:37

of them because guns actually have you

42:39

know like weddings not the right word but it's

42:41

a slew surface they're usually grips

42:43

and because of that it's harder

42:45

athena fingerprints off guns

42:48

here to this is not like a me

42:49

heard surface of a nice

42:52

and so it doesn't really surprise

42:54

me that it's possible to have touched

42:56

the nice and not last any dna

42:58

now is the theory is

43:00

that when did not inflict

43:03

establish herself it would mean

43:05

someone else did and one theory of course

43:07

is that it was an intruder as someone

43:10

who would not say am someone came in and

43:12

stabbed her a while he was gone for that short

43:14

window if that were the case

43:16

you may expect to find signs

43:18

of an intruder and there were none neighbors

43:21

would later say that other than the sound

43:23

of cm banging on the or when

43:25

he came back from the gym stay

43:27

heard nothing now

43:30

the snow on the sixth floor balcony

43:32

where their apartment was was

43:34

also undisturbed also undisturbed the

43:36

door was locked it's possible

43:38

that someone had come from the balcony

43:40

but because remember there was this big snowstorm

43:43

you would expect to see especially within

43:45

like a thirty forty minute maybe one our

43:47

when if you are probably set to be able to see

43:50

snow disturbed from the person

43:52

escaping

43:53

our another point of

43:55

entry so no one had come

43:57

in from the outside nothing an apartment with

43:59

hey game and

43:59

looting valuable that were in plain

44:02

sight such as allen's engagement

44:04

ring which was sitting on a table

44:06

in her bedroom so nothing's missing

44:09

usually that crude or they may be coming

44:11

in for something i can use snacks

44:13

and maybe they're caught unawares at someone's

44:15

actually in the apartment in a panic and they

44:17

kill the person but where you'll

44:19

find that they'll take something whatever is easiest

44:22

within eyesight to make

44:24

their time worth it but we don't see

44:26

anything missing and we don't see

44:29

any signs of someone

44:31

coming someone coming the balcony or do

44:33

the neighbors say they heard anything

44:36

upstairs so if this were an intruder

44:39

option three for an intruder

44:41

and they weren't there for valuables

44:43

they managed to basically slip in and slip out

44:45

that by knowing and they didn't come into

44:47

the sixth floor balcony in

44:50

climb up in a blizzard like spiderman

44:52

and committee the balcony if they came in the came

44:54

in through that door they are probably lead and

44:56

by alan

44:58

that would have done what they did and then left by

45:01

it's not something where anybody heard a big struggle

45:04

big man three grams heather actually she

45:06

actually looked into the complaints about

45:08

the building to see whether or not the the walls

45:10

were thin and found that was not a complaint

45:13

without i was just brilliant investigation

45:16

on her part so it doesn't

45:18

necessarily mean that there could have been something

45:20

happened in that building and in that

45:22

room and nobody heard it on the outside when

45:25

like you'd have to be completely silent because walls

45:27

are so thin so maybe there is an intruder

45:30

but if they did it they didn't do it still anything

45:33

that it a basically without any indication

45:35

that they were there on it would be interesting

45:37

because an intruder is more likely to

45:39

surprise

45:39

you she probably wouldn't be surprised to see same

45:42

time and because sam lives there and she knows

45:44

i he just went downstairs at the gym but

45:46

if you saw someone come into your apartment

45:48

or noticed someone behind you who did not belong

45:50

in your apartments you would expect to see those defensive

45:52

wounds right a scream he

45:54

ends up to the face what have you but

45:57

again we go back to be zero defensive

45:59

wounds

45:59

that was found on her body and i want to ask you

46:02

this hours and you can tell me what you think

46:04

somebody can complain that were in interjecting her own

46:07

were how we would behave but is

46:09

it weird to you that her engagement ring

46:11

was sitting on the table in her bedroom

46:13

so

46:15

a little bit hard cause it's not the

46:17

end of the night i can imagine if you're getting ready

46:19

for bed like washing your face taking

46:21

a shower i typically do not take

46:23

off my

46:24

this might rain that all in general

46:26

in life but if i were maybe

46:29

at the end of the night and the other time

46:31

though would be washing

46:33

the dishes but one thing i will know if i'm

46:35

washing the dishes and sam doing like a hobby

46:38

iron

46:40

hi or pants and i don't i can

46:42

scratch because the heavy you know heavy metal

46:44

i take my ring off and put it right

46:47

next to the think i don't walk into my bedroom

46:49

to put it in my bedroom because i use

46:51

it whole think that far ahead that and in my bedroom

46:54

to put it down in order to go wash dishes such

46:56

as i'm watching it i looked at him like oh i don't

46:58

want scratch you know the pan or my ring

47:00

so it's a little bit strange

47:03

to me but everyone is different

47:05

on how they were their engagement rings

47:07

but one thing i'd like to know the or maybe

47:09

some indications as she was doing something

47:11

at the sink so this might not be that

47:14

surprising , she is like me

47:17

and may not want her ring to get so

47:19

bonaire or either to get cloudy

47:21

with all the debris from washing dishes

47:23

because in the kitchen there was a strainer

47:26

of blueberries next week peeled

47:29

orange and some a kit encounter and

47:32

it appears that she had been

47:34

preparing had been snack or fruit salad

47:37

at the time that she was attacked or

47:40

when she decided to save herself the existence

47:42

of

47:43

the fruit

47:44

leads me to believe it's more likely she was

47:46

attacked that she decided to stop herself

47:48

because kind of like what we're saying last episode

47:50

with her calling a restaurant and

47:53

her calling her mom and nothing seemed a

47:55

mess when she was speaking to her mom is

47:57

as she was making plans for the future

47:59

and

48:00

acting in a way that would anticipate

48:03

she would see another hour and other day

48:06

saying , these blueberries and appealed

48:08

orange use appeal an orange right before you eat

48:10

it you wash blueberries typically right

48:12

before you eat them because a delicate and

48:15

so it would be a little bit strange to take

48:17

beast to prepare fruit to

48:19

eat then all of a sudden fly

48:21

into such a rage of

48:24

wanting to add your own life that you're able

48:26

to stab through your scalp

48:28

your bottle or then so

48:30

the existence of this through the seems

48:32

to point to being caught

48:34

surprised some it i guess you alice

48:37

her but have disagreements

48:38

a few away as as oh

48:40

no

48:40

the thing i do not think it is a little strange

48:43

i will get his inexplicably

48:45

the her you see this i mean this to

48:47

me is is wild and

48:50

in our p what i said in the pass about

48:52

suicide

48:54

the people who are making plans for the future

48:56

decide the killed himself and

48:58

happens

48:59

and it seems strange to those

49:01

of us who have not had suicidal thoughts

49:04

if not dealt with depression have not dealt with

49:06

suicide it seems strange to us that people

49:08

would fill up their gas tank and then go home

49:10

and , themselves or that they would make

49:13

reservations with a restaurant and then kill themselves

49:15

that is one thing is a another

49:17

thing altogether too apparently

49:20

be standing at the sink washing

49:22

blueberries healing and orange

49:24

and then just deciding to poland i father my

49:26

blog and stab yourself twenty times

49:29

to death and dying the kitchen

49:31

i mean that is

49:32

that is a level beyond

49:35

anything that i have ever heard

49:37

or seen any of people have other stories

49:40

of similar things happening like that that they know

49:42

of i would love to hear them because to me

49:45

that is so unusual

49:48

in so unique did

49:50

it almost forecloses suicide

49:52

for me like it is just hard for me

49:54

to wrap my head around as you said

49:57

the appeal and orange route for you eat

49:59

don't be an orange and then just leave it on the counter

50:02

the little do that in your view watson

50:04

you're straining the blueberries you're about to

50:06

eat the blueberries that's why you do that

50:09

and it just it is difficult for me

50:11

to wrap my head around the notion that

50:13

you would be in the middle of doing that in

50:15

the reason i say in the middle during that is because

50:18

those things are sitting essentially

50:20

right in front of we're pseudo been standing

50:22

wins he stabbed or sale the nice

50:24

block is right next to them he

50:26

would have pulled that knife out of that knife block

50:28

standing right in front of the blueberries and the

50:30

orange

50:32

then fab yourself

50:33

the back of the neck and then in the stomach

50:35

and and the new chest

50:37

that i just i really have a hard time

50:39

with that yeah

50:41

it is

50:42

you know me i understood everything

50:44

we

50:48

didn't really funny cause when you meet me in real life unlike

50:51

over south that i'm a overstate

50:53

everything overstate everything be making someone out of this

50:55

is just of all the things in this case

50:57

this was the first thing to that went

50:59

into this think it like are usually day me people's

51:01

and as though center things a be like oh

51:04

i think this person's innocent knowledge get a for five minutes

51:06

much better when on innocent and adding a waste of time

51:08

with this and people will send us

51:10

things are with of cases

51:12

where is the suicide is it murder and all

51:14

the can be like work i'm not going to read traumatize

51:17

his family with another episode on this

51:19

this is clearly a suicide somebody

51:22

since this land a hard look

51:24

at it the mail i got to the

51:26

fruit i just saw it this is weird

51:28

there is this was the thing more

51:30

than really anything else up to this point including

51:33

the sav wounds and how weird they are and where

51:35

they are and everything else but when i got to the fruit

51:37

the fruit thought

51:39

this is weird

51:40

you wanna know why i really think it's weird

51:42

now people are going to be like so angry that i answer

51:45

my own thoughts i love blueberries

51:47

right blueberries like tell a kid winter

51:49

you'll have kind of blueberries and the reason you wash

51:51

them right before you eat them as because they're very susceptible

51:53

to spoiling and so when you wash

51:56

them that kind of theater you get rid of all the pesticides

51:58

of things that have kept it good the shelf

52:00

and so you're supposed to wash them

52:03

and eat him right away as opposed to store them because

52:05

they go bad as soon as you start watching them

52:08

and i just think about like it's hard

52:10

for me to not eat blueberries as i'm washing

52:12

them some like oily full of blueberries this up like

52:14

there

52:14

hurry up

52:16

no hundred percent i mean i don't know i just

52:19

i guess it maybe i am dwelling

52:21

on a strange thing but to me

52:24

the fruit in this have already and for today run

52:26

and on the fruit for her for like a

52:28

fifth i want to hear revival i want to hear

52:30

from people about whether they have they

52:32

have ever heard of any case like this and

52:35

there and some strain suicide stories out there

52:37

but

52:38

alice's right the would watch

52:40

as were very than than either the been

52:42

the bluebirds as you as you with about away

52:45

for some it's empty there's nothing understanding though

52:49

if she she was exercising restraint

52:51

apparently and not eating the blueberries

52:53

she was washing than it really feels like

52:56

she's making herself a snack you can

52:58

sort of imagine how this would go right

53:00

she's hungry she has need anything her

53:03

fiance is going to go to the gym so

53:05

she's making herself as when , gets

53:07

back from the gm they're going to order

53:10

dinner that's the way things go right

53:12

and mean that would make sense and

53:14

it just feels like she's in the middle making the snack

53:17

and she dies to the the murdered

53:19

or she killed herself in

53:21

the middle of awesome blueberries

53:23

so i have a good place to and because it's so bizarre

53:25

so bizarre is totally

53:28

bizarre and i need input from people

53:31

wanted to give me input on the

53:33

also i'm really hungry for blueberries

53:35

now

53:35

no area under the computers and blueberries

53:38

you may go pick blueberries once i believe

53:40

i did and you love

53:41

it i will i picked a lot of blueberries a

53:43

mental lot of muffins and eight

53:46

or the blueberries it was delicious

53:48

there

53:49

not exactly find to pick but in any event

53:52

we want here for you guys on the blueberries and everything

53:54

else

53:55

she just an email prosecutors bought

53:57

at gmail dot com at prosecutors

54:00

it for all your social media

54:03

twitter facebook instagram hello

54:05

to those he was on youtube you'll see a lot of

54:07

pictures of various things we've been talking

54:09

about a lot of those are you listening

54:12

to this early an ad free on

54:14

patriot on thank you so much for supporting

54:16

us we know that especially these days

54:18

every dollar you make has

54:21

to go along way for the fact that you decide to

54:23

put a little towards us is just

54:25

blows or mon still can't believe any by listen to

54:27

us at all but certainly anybody baseless interests

54:29

is crazy so they do you guys i hope

54:31

that you're enjoying this let us know

54:34

what cases you in here because we

54:36

always want to do for you well

54:39

as the horizontal for tonight is there anything

54:41

else you want to add

54:42

if case of maddening it's i

54:44

mean it's so interesting it's so

54:46

maddening the facts are just mind

54:49

boggling and please come back as

54:51

we didn't get through as much as i thought we would but

54:53

that's just because they're so much to discuss and i think it's

54:55

worth discussing because of what bread

54:57

said this is not a cold case

54:59

despite how old the days and

55:02

i don't think there's been justice

55:04

yet in this case and i

55:06

think it deserves a hard

55:08

look at the facts and that's what

55:10

we're trying to do here

55:11

earlier one of their right and we we are

55:13

going through this methodically because

55:15

each one of these things is worth the discussion

55:18

this is

55:20

if it if you want to get if you want to get the forty

55:22

five minute version which will basically tell you

55:24

everything you need to know listened big mansour graham

55:26

noon can listen eyes waste your time but

55:29

everything in this case

55:31

is interesting and worthy of discussion and mean

55:33

something in the final calculus

55:36

of what happened here so we're going to continue to do that

55:38

i'm fascinated by this gave up on his case to

55:40

be absolutely riveting and

55:42

i hope you guys did see we

55:44

have a lot to talk about next

55:46

week we probably will get to the nine

55:48

one one call in this case which is

55:51

one of the most interesting non when cause

55:53

you're ever gonna hear them as say there's

55:55

say someone who constantly carson's you

55:58

not put that much stock into now

55:59

golf blizzard is now in one

56:02

call and i think you'll hear what i'm talking

56:04

about but we will be back next week

56:06

and we will discuss this case

56:08

more cannot wait to hear your

56:11

thoughts and comments on this case but

56:14

, we do brett

56:17

an hour and we

56:19

are the prosecutor

56:41

i guess you can never find somebody else vienna

56:43

nobody case you

56:45

, you could have the guy on say say

56:48

the person taking them into a room

56:51

walking out with with the clearly a bag

56:53

and a body as a video of him getting

56:55

out of both dumping the body in the ocean

56:57

the bodies never bodies in fact we

56:59

don't know how they dot maybe the crowd

57:01

of maybe they shot amazing

57:03

we need to know we need to know how

57:05

they got like no you don't