0:00

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0:06

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0:08

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0:12

If you've ever dived head first into a new self

0:15

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0:17

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0:19

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0:21

You're just susceptible as everyone

0:23

else. No one is safe, especially not

0:25

Megan. I'm the most susceptible optimal. We

0:28

want to debunk them that people who join cults

0:30

are uneducated or naive or

0:32

broken because anyone can be manipulated

0:34

by a narcissist or field good

0:36

in a new group they've joined. And

0:39

we should know, we both have been.

0:41

Join us every week as we explore the world

0:43

of extreme belief, talk to survivors and

0:45

experts, and share our own experiences with

0:47

cults abuse of power. Don't be fooled.

0:50

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0:52

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2:25

I'm Brett.

2:26

And I'm Alice. And we are

2:28

the prosecutors. Today,

2:41

on the prosecutors, a woman leaves

2:43

work for a week long vacation, but

2:45

she never comes back. What

2:47

happened to Patricia, Patty,

2:50

Atkins. Hello,

3:18

everybody, and welcome to this episode of

3:20

the Parocsecutors. I'm

3:22

Brett, and I'm joined as always

3:25

by my boohoo

3:27

cohost, Alice.

3:30

Hi, Brett. Is that German? For

3:32

absolutely wonderful. I have I don't

3:34

know. I'm guessing. So that is from

3:36

169. And the thing I will say about it

3:39

is, for whatever reason, didn't write down

3:41

what language it is, and I didn't write down

3:43

what it means. But I'm gonna go

3:45

with Dutch, and I'm gonna say

3:47

it means wonderful. I

3:49

kinda googled it and came up

3:52

with Korean spicy soft

3:54

tofu

3:54

stew, which sounds delicious. So if that's

3:57

what I'm

3:57

calling Basically, you just made up something.

4:00

Why didn't you make it up? I mean, it's a real word

4:02

apparently. I just don't actually know what it

4:04

means. It's more I could have called you any

4:06

number of

4:07

things, Alice. You are a lawyer. You know

4:09

that citations matter. Well,

4:11

you know, sometimes you just gotta She's

4:14

got to trust her gut. Oh, I don't

4:16

know that we should trust her gut today, Brett.

4:18

So, Rhett and I, completely separate

4:21

problems like, get on the

4:23

phone and we're like, yeah, I've been thrown up all

4:25

day. Yeah.

4:27

But you know how committed we

4:28

are? We just literally bit the

4:30

ginger and sack down to record.

4:33

Yeah. And I also had, like, emergency

4:35

dental work done today. So I don't

4:37

double Gosh.

4:38

Committed to this podcast care. That's

4:40

like I forgot that happened today

4:42

too. That's a really intense.

4:43

Yeah. What can I say?

4:45

You're

4:45

all homey. But I'm

4:47

not gonna hold it against you. As well.

4:50

Wow. I'm glad your tooth is

4:52

fixed I've

4:54

been throw up free for like. Twelve

4:56

hours. So -- Yeah. Yeah. -- plenty

4:58

of

4:58

time. Too. 169 feeling

5:01

solid. Hopefully, I can make it I just wanna

5:03

make it through this episode. Afterwards, whatever

5:05

has to happen, gonna happen, but

5:07

gonna make it through this

5:08

episode. There

5:09

you go. we have, as

5:11

always, tragic case. A

5:13

mysterious case. This is

5:15

one of those disappearances that

5:17

is inexplicable on the one hand. And on

5:19

the other hand, seems like it has a

5:21

very clear explanation 169 yet

5:24

we've never actually reached any kind of

5:26

conclusion to the story. So another

5:28

case we wanted to do If for no other

5:30

reason then, hey, maybe there's somebody

5:32

out there who actually knows

5:34

what happened to

5:36

Patty Atkins 169 this

5:39

was a story that was recommended to us

5:41

by a couple people it was

5:43

funny. Somebody recommended it I

5:45

thought, oh, I'm gonna do that. And then

5:47

as I was doing it, somebody else

5:49

recommended it. So it was kinda weird. It

5:51

was as if the universe was

5:53

aligning for us to do the show. So we're gonna

5:55

do this story on Patty Atkins. Probably

5:57

a story a lot of y'all are not that

6:00

familiar with. It's not one that

6:02

is super well

6:05

covered in the true crime world at least.

6:07

I didn't see that it was. There is an investigation

6:09

discovery episode of

6:11

disappeared on this. So if you're into disappeared,

6:14

you may have seen that episode. It's pretty good.

6:16

I recommend everybody check it out.

6:18

So, Alice, do you wanna get us

6:20

started on this one? Absolutely. Because

6:23

I think a lot of us know

6:25

the kind of person Patty is, and I'd like

6:27

to tell you a little bit about her before we

6:29

delve into kind of the tragedy that

6:31

unfolds. Patty Atkins

6:33

was a hard working single

6:35

mom from Mary's bill Ohio. For

6:37

the last decade, she'd worked at the Honda

6:39

plant, and she'd worked her way up with

6:41

promotion after promotion. She was

6:43

just hard worker supporting her child

6:45

169 found love too with another

6:48

worker in the plant. Bob Smith.

6:50

Now that's not his real name. His real name

6:52

hasn't been officially released, so

6:54

we're just gonna call him Bob

6:55

Smith. And you can find it if you're

6:57

interested in knowing who this 169. And frankly, I

6:59

thought about just using his real

7:01

name, but the police have

7:03

never officially released it. They don't mention it

7:05

in the investigation discovery

7:07

thing. So for the sake of

7:09

whatever privacy he deserves. We will

7:11

use a a pseudonym. And you'll see why

7:13

maybe privacy is needed

7:15

here because even though

7:17

HAD BEEN DATING BOB FOR

7:19

OVER A YEAR THEY HAD TO KEEP THEIR

7:21

RELATIONSHIP A SECRET BECAUSE BOB WAS

7:23

MARY, STILL MARY. With two children.

7:26

And the only people who knew

7:28

about the relationship were Patty's best

7:30

friend and her sisters. it's

7:33

not surprising They disapproved

7:35

of the relationship, but Patty was

7:37

in love and she just wasn't interested

7:39

169 listening to her best friend and

7:41

her sisters kind of tell her not to

7:43

be the other woman, to be involved

7:45

with a married man, a dad. You

7:47

know, she just she was just in

7:49

love. And I know even as

7:51

we start this off, that

7:54

there's gonna be people out there who automatically

7:56

disapprove of Patty. we've

7:58

seen that. When we did the Kyren hormone

8:00

case, there were plenty of people who

8:02

thought you know, Terry is the kind of person

8:04

who would kill him because she was

8:08

cheating. I mean, she wasn't the one cheating.

8:10

But in the midst of Desiree's

8:12

pregnant Nancy with Kyren. Terry

8:14

is is in a relationship with his

8:16

father. And so people are like, anybody would do that, probably

8:18

kill somebody too. And there was a lot of backlash

8:21

and and drama and we don't want that.

8:23

Let's just say that Patty's in

8:25

this situation. It's a situation a lot of people

8:27

have been 169. there

8:30

are red flags beyond that.

8:33

I'm not saying I approve of people

8:35

having affairs or or dating people who

8:37

are married. I think that's generally probably a bad

8:39

idea you shouldn't do it, but there are red

8:41

flags beyond that. So save your

8:43

save your judgment for Patty.

8:45

There's a lot worse things going

8:47

on here. Than just the fact that this

8:49

man she is seeing is

8:50

married. But things were

8:52

looking up. Bob had told

8:54

Patty that he was going to leave his wife and

8:56

they were going to together and

8:59

build a new life together. And

9:01

it was all going to start with a week long vacation

9:03

they were taken together to Canada.

9:05

Now, Patty had told her sister Marsh who

9:08

would be keeping her daughter. That cell

9:10

service would be spotty, but she'd see

9:12

her in a week. But

9:14

when the week came and

9:16

went, Patty didn't come back. In

9:18

fact, she never came back. And

9:20

her friends and family are left to

9:22

wonder what happened to

9:24

Patty Atkins.

9:25

And, you know, this is one of those

9:27

things where, as I said,

9:29

it's not just that she's in a relationship

9:31

with a married man, all of a

9:33

sudden, he's getting ready to leave his wife.

9:35

They're gonna be together. And this is gonna be the

9:37

beginning of everything. And that beginning,

9:40

apparently quickly becomes an

9:42

end and I know what you're

9:44

thinking. You're thinking the answer here

9:46

is pretty obvious. And

9:48

on the one hand, it may well be.

9:50

But there are at least a couple things

9:52

about the story that make you

9:54

wonder if something a little strange is

9:56

going on. But we'll see as we

9:58

walk through the timeline and then the evidence of

10:00

this case. So first, let's do the

10:02

timeline. Let's start on June

10:04

twenty ninth. Two

10:06

thousand one. So

10:08

at noon that day, Patty

10:10

drops her daughter off with her

10:12

ex husband. So she's planning on going

10:14

on this trip to Canada.

10:16

She's gonna be gone for a week like Alice

10:18

said. And the

10:20

idea is this is a good opportunity

10:23

for her daughter to spend some time

10:25

with her husband, her ex husband, and

10:27

then Marsha is going to take

10:29

over and she'll have her daughter for the rest.

10:31

Of the time. Now as Alice said,

10:33

she's gonna be staying in a cabin in

10:36

Canada. So kinda in the middle of

10:38

nowhere, she's not expecting to have cell

10:40

service, and she's not expecting there to really

10:42

be a landline. So she's not going to

10:44

be able to call.

10:45

And Brett, like, Usually, I'd be like,

10:48

oh, that's so weird that Natesto's cell phone. But

10:50

I I just came from Alaska

10:52

where I was in the middle of a

10:54

city. I absolutely thought I was

10:56

going to have cell service, and I

10:58

had zero cell service for a week.

11:00

And it was a little bit jarring. And

11:02

so I I can absolutely see

11:04

this. It's good she knew ahead of time,

11:06

but it also seems like no one was

11:08

expecting to hear from her because of the

11:10

lack of cell

11:10

service. Right. Tackley, and that becomes

11:13

convenient later on, but it is a

11:15

story that makes sense. And

11:17

there are details of this case

11:19

that are really gonna leave you

11:21

scratching your head about how could

11:23

Patty believe that was a reasonable thing?

11:25

There are two things 169 particular I'm thinking

11:27

of that we're gonna talk about. This

11:29

detail, I can see buying this. I

11:31

can see thinking that makes total sense. I wanna

11:33

make sure everybody knows this

11:35

letting them know and and her

11:38

family didn't think it was that strange either. It's like,

11:40

okay, you're gonna be gone for a week?

11:42

Sounds great. So Patty

11:44

actually catches a rod with a friend

11:46

to her job because she's leaving

11:48

her car at home and her

11:50

intention is she is going to

11:52

ride with her boyfriend

11:54

at three thirty Patty clocks

11:56

into her job, the Honda factory

11:58

in Marysville, Ohio. Her

12:01

shift runs until midnight. At

12:03

which point, the plant is scheduled to shut down for

12:06

a week. The company has a policy of

12:08

giving all employees a week off around

12:10

July

12:10

fourth, which I just thought was great, by the way. I didn't realize

12:12

they did that. Great policy, Honda. Good

12:14

for you. And

12:17

also notice what's happening just situationally

12:19

here. When someone's missing, what do

12:21

we typically see as factors? They

12:23

don't show up to their work, or you don't

12:25

hear from them. Someone you normally text with, you

12:27

never hear from them, and so people

12:29

ask, like, the police to go do a a

12:31

welfare check. Both of these kind of

12:33

factors that would normally come

12:34

in, in a missing person case, have been

12:36

removed. It's kinda like when we talked about

12:38

the Karen hormen

12:40

case. And one of the things we pointed out

12:42

was Terry, either intentionally or by

12:44

accident, had told

12:46

the teachers that Karen

12:48

had a doctor's appointment that day. And

12:50

because of that, no one missed him. And

12:52

that meant the police lost essentially

12:55

an entire day where they could have been

12:57

looking for him. This is even

12:59

worse. So you have a situation where families

13:01

not gonna miss her because they expect her to be

13:03

gone. They're not gonna miss her if she doesn't

13:05

get in contact with them. Because I expect

13:07

her not to be able to do And her

13:09

coworkers are not gonna miss her because the plant's

13:11

gonna be closed for a week. It really is

13:13

the perfect storm of circumstances in

13:15

which someone could just

13:17

disappear. So ordinarily,

13:20

Patty being the shift supervisor. She's

13:22

the person who stays to the very end.

13:25

She's the one who makes sure everything is clean

13:27

169 tip top shape before she

13:29

leaves. But this day, tells

13:31

her fellow workers that she really needs to

13:33

go as soon as the shift is

13:35

over so she can start this

13:37

vacation. Her coworkers, they recognize the

13:39

fact that Patty is the selfless one who always

13:41

stays till the bitter end. They're perfectly

13:43

fine with that, and they let her know we'll have

13:45

everything taken care of.

13:48

You can go. And sure

13:49

enough, that's exactly what happened. So it's

13:51

pretty late when she leaves because again we're

13:53

talking about midnight. Now the

13:55

next day or really going into

13:57

the next day June thirtieth two thousand

13:59

one right after midnight at

14:01

twelve o'clock and nineteen

14:04

seconds, really. Patty clocks out.

14:06

So as you can see, shift ins, she

14:08

immediately goes and clocks out. And

14:10

employees actually see her dash up the

14:12

stairs and out into the parking lot.

14:15

this is the last time that anyone

14:17

sees her. I think the

14:19

fact that she's dashing out the door

14:21

shows you like how excited she is about this. Right?

14:23

She doesn't wanna miss a single minute

14:25

of this vacation. She wants it to get

14:27

started. And it makes sense. She's had to

14:29

have this relationship. Completely

14:32

under wraps. It really can't

14:34

exist in the public.

14:36

And she's a mother. She's always having to

14:38

probably rush home to her daughter. But

14:40

in this situation, someone's watching her

14:42

daughter, she doesn't have to rush home to anyone. This

14:44

is her opportunity to finally

14:46

kind of live the life with boyfriend that

14:49

she had probably dreamed of. Now

14:51

at around two thirty

14:53

AM according to his wife, Bob

14:55

OB arrives at home. About a

14:57

week later, on July eighth

14:59

two thousand one, that noon,

15:01

Patty's sister, Marsha, was

15:04

expecting Patti to come pick up her seven year

15:06

old daughter. Now her daughter had split

15:08

the week, as we said earlier, between

15:10

Patti's ex's home and

15:12

Marsha's home. And remember she wasn't

15:14

169 to hear from her all day, but around noon

15:16

was when the daughter was supposed to be picked up

15:18

by Patty. So when she doesn't

15:20

show up. At twelve:thirty, Marsha

15:22

calls Patty's home, but there's

15:24

no answer. After a couple

15:27

more hours of calling again and

15:29

again, she finally called

15:31

Bob's home. Now

15:33

Bob's wife answered the

15:34

phone, but Bob wasn't there.

15:37

And to a certain extent, this is actually

15:39

kind of comforting for Marsha because she thinks,

15:42

oh, they probably just are running

15:44

late. He's not home yet. They haven't

15:46

made it home yet. I'm not gonna be that

15:48

concerned, but as the minutes

15:50

tick on by and turn into

15:52

hours, she becomes more

15:54

and more concerned about five o'clock.

15:56

She's calling Bob's home

15:58

again. And this time, he

16:00

answers. And he tells

16:02

Marsha something that is

16:04

entirely shocking to

16:06

her and leads her to an immediate

16:08

conclusion. He says, he doesn't

16:10

know where Patty was.

16:12

And in fact, There was no reason he

16:14

would know because according to him,

16:16

he's not in a relationship with

16:19

Patty 169 must

16:21

be mistaken. About

16:23

them being in a relationship. At which

16:25

point Marsha responds, what

16:27

did you do to her? She is

16:29

immediately, incredibly

16:32

suspicious. Of Bob

16:34

for obvious reasons.

16:36

This point Bob hangs up the phone.

16:39

Marsha gives it a little bit more time, but

16:41

by seven o'clock, she is called the police

16:43

and reported Patty missing.

16:47

Now, Marsh is not just going to

16:49

sit around a way for the police to find

16:51

something. She stays

16:53

up all night. Patty still doesn't

16:55

come home. At three o'clock in the morning,

16:57

Marsha actually calls Bob's home

16:59

This time she speaks to Bob's wife 169

17:01

she tells her everything that she

17:04

knew about the relationship between

17:06

Patty Bob, at some point Bob takes the

17:08

phone and once again says he doesn't know anything

17:10

about Patty. She's completely wrong.

17:13

He doesn't know what she's talking about.

17:16

But phone call doesn't

17:18

end the way you might expect it to

17:20

end if that were true. If it

17:22

were true, that he

17:24

knew nothing, I mean, I would be like, look crazy lady.

17:26

I don't know what you're talking about,

17:28

but stop calling me and hang up the phone.

17:30

But that's not what Bob does. He

17:32

actually forty five minutes talking

17:35

to Marsha and asking her

17:37

questions about things that she

17:39

supposedly knows about him. And

17:41

it turns out Marsh is able to tell

17:44

him just about everything, about his

17:46

life, about his kids, about

17:48

his job, about his

17:50

side business, just everything in his life, which

17:52

I think confirms to

17:54

Bob, if he didn't know already, that

17:56

indeed Marcia knows exactly what

17:58

was going on with her

18:00

sister. Like, how weird is that? Right? Because

18:02

in fact, if you had some

18:05

Crazy lady calling your

18:07

wife in the middle of the night accusing

18:09

you of some affair that you

18:11

really had nothing to do why would you ask those

18:13

questions? I mean, I think my response would be

18:15

like, okay, stop calling or we're going to call

18:17

the cops on you. It's the middle of the night and you're

18:19

accusing me of something heinous.

18:21

And untrue rather than like, how

18:23

much does she actually know? Because Bob

18:25

may have thought that Patty kept

18:28

everything secret. From everybody. And

18:30

even if she did tell her

18:32

sister, she may have only told her some

18:34

little part. So she he's trying

18:36

to, like, gauge basically

18:39

how much he needs to lie

18:41

about the

18:41

relationship, I think. look, if you've ever been

18:43

in a relationship, that you really shouldn't have been in or if you've ever

18:45

had close friends who've been in a

18:48

relationship, they really shouldn't be

18:50

in. One of the parties, probably the one who has

18:52

the most to lose, has

18:54

urged the other one to tell no one.

18:56

This is between 169. Don't

18:58

tell your friends. Don't tell your family.

19:01

And of course, they always end up. Telling

19:03

people because that's just the way it goes. And

19:05

you could imagine, Bob's in the situation

19:07

where he's tall, Patty. Don't tell anybody

19:10

about us. This could be a big problem for me until

19:12

I'm able to divorce my

19:14

wife. This could be an issue. And

19:16

Bob, he was trying he

19:18

told Patty he was trying to set up his finances so

19:21

that when the divorce happened, his

19:23

wife wouldn't get everything. That

19:25

was one of the things he was doing. At least that's

19:27

what he told So you can imagine why

19:29

he would, at least, the reason he would

19:31

give her for keeping this all

19:33

secret. And Bob seems

19:35

like believed that

19:37

Patty hadn't told anyone about

19:39

their relationship. And it's true she didn't tell many people,

19:41

but she did tell her sisters 169 she did

19:43

tell her best friend. now, it

19:45

feels like Bob is finding out that

19:48

Patty did not keep this entirely a

19:50

secret. And fact, there are people who

19:52

know far more about him than he would have been

19:54

comfortable with. But nevertheless,

19:56

he sticks to a story and we talked about

19:58

this in in one of our previous episodes.

20:01

How, if you got a story, you might as well

20:03

just stick to it because changing your story is never

20:05

gonna work out for you. The next day in

20:07

the police interview, 169,

20:09

and he denies any involvement with Patty.

20:11

He sticks to a story. Not having

20:13

an affair. Not in a relationship

20:16

with anybody. Don't know what they're talking about, know nothing about

20:18

what happened to

20:20

Patty. And the sort

20:22

of investigation continues, but it

20:24

quickly goes cold. And

20:26

obviously, when you hear this in twenty

20:28

twenty three, talking about a case from two

20:30

thousand and one, 169 not

20:32

surprising that soon thereafter in two thousand

20:35

six, Patty was officially declared

20:38

dead. And this point,

20:40

No one has ever been able to figure

20:42

out exactly what

20:45

happened to

20:45

Patty. So sad. I mean,

20:48

there's no answers for her daughter, there's no answers for

20:50

her sisters, necessarily is just such

20:52

a sad situation. 169

20:55

it's not surprising that the police have no lead into where

20:57

Patty is. Like, is she in Canada? Is

20:59

she close by? There's a week

21:01

in between the time that anyone even knew

21:03

that she was miss a lot can happen

21:05

in that time. And so if I were the police, I

21:07

I literally don't even know where to start. Well, I

21:10

know where I'd start, but I

21:11

mean, the hot the Honda plant and

21:14

then someone's house. But we'll get we'll get

21:16

it. You could start. You could start at her

21:18

house, which seems like a smart place to start

21:20

as well. You you could start.

21:21

There. So we've gone through the timeline, and that's really

21:23

it. Because of kind of the lack of communication in

21:25

that weak span, there's not really

21:27

much information that we have.

21:30

But there are a lot of unusual

21:32

aspects to discuss. And let's start with her

21:34

house, Brett. The police show up at Patty's

21:36

house after she's reported missing

21:38

169 they find nothing amiss. The car

21:40

is in the driveway because remember she

21:42

didn't take her car to the Honda

21:44

plant that day. She rode with a friend.

21:46

Her clothes are all there,

21:48

and there's no sign of a struggle or

21:51

anything that's out of place. And

21:53

police conclude that whatever happened,

21:55

it didn't happen there. And if

21:57

Patty disappeared on her own

21:58

accord, she took absolutely

22:01

nothing with her. Which is always an

22:03

important point to make because there are always people who are

22:05

going to believe that this person disappeared

22:07

on their own and it does

22:09

happen. There was just recently a case

22:11

169 someone who who disappeared about ten years

22:14

ago and and died recently a

22:16

couple hundred miles away. And

22:18

nobody knew that he was a guy who had

22:20

who had disappeared, who just walked out on his life.

22:22

So it's not as if it doesn't happen. But

22:24

those stories are remarkable for

22:26

reason. And whereas in his case,

22:28

there were some signs that he may

22:30

have disappeared on his own. In this case, there are

22:33

not. It appears that Patty

22:35

really took nothing with

22:36

her. If she was going to start a life anew,

22:38

she was doing it basically with

22:40

the clothes on her

22:41

back. And she was doing it while

22:43

abandoning her daughter her family.

22:45

Could happen, but there's no sign

22:47

of it.

22:48

And this is like a life tip for everybody.

22:50

You can tell how close she is

22:52

with her sister by the fact that she told

22:54

her sister, like, not just that

22:56

she was in a relationship with Bob, but all

22:58

the details of it. Right? This is

23:00

like a very close relationship

23:02

where you divulge everything because you're excited

23:05

about that relationship. So not only did

23:07

she confide in her sister, but

23:09

her sister had Bob's home

23:11

number. I'm sure

23:13

that Bob did not

23:15

know. Anyone had his phone number

23:17

from Patty. Because

23:19

this was supposed to be a secret relationship

23:21

who's at his home, his family, who

23:23

doesn't know about this relationship.

23:25

And so, thank goodness, by

23:27

the that Marsha had Bob's phone number,

23:30

but I think that just shows you that

23:32

Patty isn't this like

23:32

loner. Right? She has a lot

23:35

of connection and tight connections with the people in her

23:37

life. And and let's just be

23:39

clear, Patty is either

23:41

a very disturbed

23:44

person or she's in a relationship

23:46

with Bob. Right? I

23:48

mean, there's the level of

23:50

detail and the stories

23:52

that she tells to her

23:54

sister if they're not true, because that's the only

23:56

other option. Right? I mean, if Bob's telling

23:58

the truth, the only other option

24:01

is Patty is delusional

24:03

169 making it all up. And

24:05

she would have to be delusional on

24:07

on a really high level.

24:09

Of delusion for that to be true. And

24:12

as we continue to talk about this, I think you'll

24:14

see why even though that is

24:16

a possibility and it's something you have

24:18

to consider, the chances of that

24:20

with every little piece of evidence

24:22

become lesser and lesser.

24:24

So Patty, as we said, she didn't drive

24:26

to the Honda plant the day. She

24:28

just appeared. Instead, she

24:30

caught a ride and the plan when

24:33

the day was over was for her

24:35

to leave with Bob, which makes

24:37

sense. They're going to Canada together.

24:39

They're leaving that night.

24:41

Why bother with two cars? But

24:43

it wasn't as simple as climbing

24:45

in passenger seat. There is a

24:48

reason that Patti needed to

24:50

leave right at midnight. Yes,

24:52

she was excited about starting this vacation

24:54

169 she really needed to be out of there before

24:57

everybody. Because Bob

25:00

was also giving a ride to a

25:02

friend of his. He carpooled every

25:04

day with a friend of his that close

25:06

to him and that friend did

25:08

not know about the relationship

25:10

with Patty. So the plan was

25:13

for Patty to climb into the

25:15

bed of the truck. Now

25:17

you might think, well, won't the

25:19

guy just see her in the bed of the truck? Well, Bob

25:21

had a plan for that. He had installed

25:24

a cover on his truck to

25:26

know cover on his truck. And if you don't know

25:28

what that is, this is one of those

25:30

thick covers that cover the bed of a

25:32

truck and it's flushed with the top of the

25:34

truck bed. You've certainly seen these

25:36

before, but it's not like it's

25:38

not like a camper style cover that kind of forms a

25:40

shell over the bed where you have like a

25:41

dome. This is like a flat

25:44

heavy cover. You can't

25:46

sit up in it. If you're sitting in the

25:48

bed of the truck, you have to lay that. It's like a

25:50

coffin. 169, I would imagine. I've never been in the bed of

25:52

a truck when one of those covers,

25:55

but it it's, like, very it's

25:57

unnatural. It's incredibly unnatural. What is it?

25:59

Want

25:59

to I

26:00

would not either. I

26:03

mean, just

26:03

because as she said, you have to essentially lay down. You'd be laying

26:06

down. Either understand. In the

26:07

dark. In

26:08

the dark underneath this cover, while someone's

26:10

driving down the road, by

26:12

the way, like, if my boyfriend

26:15

told me to do that, I would be

26:17

so sad. Like, it's not

26:19

just it's not just

26:21

like hiding. It's like so demeaning how how

26:23

hidden you

26:23

are. Yeah. And as I said earlier, there

26:26

are things. The going to the cabin with

26:28

no cell service, maybe it's a

26:30

red flag. If you're really sort of

26:32

intuitive, but this

26:34

is a red flag. I mean, this is the

26:36

first really big

26:38

red flag. That that you're gonna

26:40

have to do this. You couldn't just meet him

26:42

somewhere. You can imagine, why can't I

26:44

drive your house? Well, obviously, I'm married, so you can't

26:46

leave your car in my house. Why can't you come

26:48

to my house? Well, I've got to drop my friend

26:50

off. He lives forty minutes away, so then I'd have

26:52

to drive back to pick you up. And that's just

26:54

way too much inconvenience for

26:56

me. Or whatever. But why not just say

26:58

I mean, I don't know. You could just tell

27:00

your friend, she's carpooling too. I'm gonna drop

27:02

her off after I drop you off. I mean, there

27:04

are other options. Here, but

27:07

this is by far the worst possible

27:10

option. And so she's supposed to stay in the

27:12

back of this truck for forty

27:14

minutes. While they drive to this

27:16

friend's house and drop him off.

27:18

And then after that, at some point, she

27:20

would get out of the back and get in the front.

27:23

With Bob and she's so smitten with

27:25

her boyfriend and she's so excited about this trip

27:27

that she is willing to do

27:30

this what seems to

27:32

be a just insane

27:34

ask. It's something you should not ask your

27:36

girlfriend to do. But Bob is committed.

27:39

Now, the police would interview the friend who

27:41

rode in that truck with Bob

27:43

and Marsha unknowingly. According to

27:45

him, Bob and the friend

27:47

stopped by Burger King to pick up some food. So so far,

27:49

the testimony is if Bob was taking

27:51

his friend home. Now

27:54

as afterwards about my gosh. If

27:56

it wasn't just like a quick drop

27:58

off, like you're gonna go and eat and leave

28:00

your girlfriend in the bed of the

28:02

truck, It kinda gets a little insane. Now afterwards,

28:04

Bob dropped the friend off

28:06

at his house about thirty miles from

28:08

the plant in Canton, Ohio.

28:11

169 then Bob was

28:13

home by two thirty. Now

28:15

the problem is that

28:17

trip should not have taken two and a

28:19

half hours from Canton to Bob's home.

28:22

Bob and his friend had an explanation

28:24

though. They said that they waited forty five

28:26

minutes in line at Burger

28:28

King. Which is a very long time at

28:30

a very busy Burger King at

28:32

twelve:thirty or so.

28:34

Now, the police did talk to

28:36

burger he manager who said that it wouldn't

28:38

have been busy at that time, makes

28:41

sense middle of the night. And there's

28:43

absolutely no way that they

28:45

would have had to wait forty five

28:47

minutes at that time of

28:48

night. I don't

28:49

know what y'all got going on in Mary's below

28:52

high, but Burger King, not

28:54

much. Was Burger King apparently hopping according

28:56

to Bob. I've never waited forty

28:58

five minutes at a Burger King any

29:01

hour or day. I can't

29:03

imagine 169 situation in which I would

29:04

wait. Forty five Yeah. I mean, I don't

29:06

care how hungry I am. We we

29:08

gotta get home. It's too early. We

29:10

make the frozen pizza by that point. And

29:13

just just to go back to

29:15

this. According to Patty,

29:17

I mean, once again, you have to believe

29:20

that Patty is really

29:22

delusional. And that she has climbed

29:24

into this truck on her own accord.

29:26

And Bob

29:27

didn't know anything about

29:29

it. Or you have to believe

29:31

that Bob is just really

29:34

inconsiderate. Because as as Al said, he's

29:36

not just driving the thirty

29:38

miles, He's like, swing about a bird king to pick up

29:39

food. And when they tell him it's gonna be forty five

29:41

minutes, he's like, that's cool. I got nowhere

29:43

to be. I have nothing

29:44

to do. No one in the bed of

29:47

my truck. So that's what you have to

29:49

believe happened. And then you have the Burger King manager.

29:51

He's like, yeah. It wasn't that busy, which makes

29:53

sense because it was the middle of the

29:54

night. And, like, let's put all

29:56

this together. So let's say that Patty knew she

29:59

was about to not just go on the trip

30:01

but about to go climb into the bed of a truck

30:03

for, like, the next couple of hours.

30:06

Would she have clocked out nineteen seconds after

30:08

the shift was over? Grab her

30:10

stuff and, quote, literally, run down the stairs

30:12

and out the door like with sheer excitement to jump

30:14

into the bed of the truck. Maybe.

30:16

But like, that's weird.

30:18

To be that excited to have to spend the

30:20

next two hours in essentially a

30:22

coffin. There's no

30:23

way. I don't care what happened here. Bob didn't tell her

30:25

it was gonna be that long. Yeah.

30:27

That's true. You know, there

30:30

that's Yeah. I reasons to think that this wasn't

30:32

some sort of they were gonna go on a trip,

30:34

and then something went horribly 169, and

30:37

someone was killed, and they didn't go on

30:39

the trip. But you can imagine

30:41

that if Patty was in the back of

30:43

that car and then two and a half hours

30:45

later, Bob gets her out

30:47

of there. There a fight could have

30:49

ensued. I can imagine someone being

30:51

very angry that that had gone

30:52

down. But in reality, I don't think that's

30:55

probably what happened. Let's talk

30:57

about the

30:57

truck. So Bob drove his truck to the

31:00

Honda plant that night 169 this was

31:02

unusual. He did not ordinarily drive

31:04

his truck which he used for his other

31:06

job to the Honda plan. Bob has

31:08

another job and that's gonna become

31:10

important. He's sort of a co

31:12

owner of mechanic shop.

31:14

And this truck was used for

31:16

that purpose. Now, obviously, why would you

31:18

take the truck that night? Well,

31:21

this seems to confirm what

31:23

Patty was saying is that he

31:25

needed to have a vehicle that she could

31:27

hide in the back of easily.

31:29

And the truck makes sense.

31:31

You know, Patty can't climb into the trunk

31:34

without his help and probably wouldn't wanna do

31:36

that anyway. But this is

31:38

perfect. If he has the truck, she can jump in the

31:40

back of the truck and hide. So

31:42

another strike against the

31:44

notion that just all a lie

31:46

by Patty took Bob

31:48

sort of unawarers. So

31:50

what about Bob's wife? So the police

31:52

did interview her 169 she

31:54

was in entirely incredulous

31:56

about the affair. She didn't believe

31:58

it at all. She told the

32:00

police that Bob went to work every

32:02

day and came home every day, like clockwork, exactly

32:04

when you would expect it. And then, frankly, there

32:06

was simply no time for him to have an affair.

32:08

And I feel this because I've often said I

32:10

don't understand how people have an because

32:12

I'm both too busy and too tired to having an affair. Adkins

32:14

addition to loving my wife and being committed to

32:17

her, I just can't imagine having

32:19

the time and energy to

32:21

put forward to being in another relationship. So

32:23

I kinda get what Bob's wife is saying and

32:25

she's like, look, they're just wanting any time

32:27

frame to do that because he

32:30

I knew where was all the time. He was either at the Honda plant

32:33

or he's at his other business

32:35

and there's just no question about that. So she

32:37

claimed there this is impossible. There's

32:39

no way he could have done this. And she said he certainly wasn't gonna

32:41

go to Canada that week. He

32:43

had come home that night as he

32:45

normally did 169 spent

32:47

much of the week doing projects that they

32:49

hit plan to

32:50

And in fact, one of those

32:53

projects which we'll come back to was

32:55

pouring some concrete in the

32:57

backyard. Well, so what we know

32:59

definitely then is Bob

33:01

wasn't gone that week

33:04

and Patty really probably just disappeared

33:06

that night. Whatever happened,

33:08

unless she somehow went to Canada by

33:10

herself, but she had no way to get there by

33:12

herself. And the other thing to know is

33:14

that Bob never intended to go to Canada

33:16

because he had planned these

33:18

projects to do this week. He hadn't

33:20

planned to say be on a business trip. So

33:22

those are interesting things to note from Bob's

33:26

wife's testimony. What about

33:28

Patty's clothes? We know

33:30

that Patty didn't dry have to

33:32

work herself. And when her coworker

33:34

saw her leaving, they actually didn't see

33:36

any luggage either. According

33:38

to Marsha, there was a reason for this.

33:40

But had told her that they would buy

33:42

all the clothes and accessories that Patty

33:44

needed when they got to Canada.

33:46

And the only thing Patty brought

33:48

was a small teal colored

33:51

duffle bag with something she

33:53

bought from Victoria's

33:54

Secret. And now this bag has never

33:57

been found.

33:57

This is This is red flag. Never take that one. I've

34:00

never gone on any

34:02

vacation and not brought

34:04

clothes other than lingerie. it

34:07

would be a red flag to me, especially Canada. I mean,

34:09

it is summer. But like, Canada's

34:11

rugged, especially if you're going to

34:13

a cabin with no cell phone service, I

34:15

would imagine it's pretty rural. You're like, in the woods. It's probably

34:17

a situation where you're gonna do some

34:20

hiking or at least have to trudge through

34:22

the wilderness get to your

34:24

cabin. In which case, it might make

34:26

sense to bring, like, long pants, you

34:28

know, so the brush doesn't scratch 169. And

34:30

hiking boots, which are

34:32

heavy and expensive to buy new. And like, if you're out

34:34

there, you probably don't need a lot of clothes.

34:36

It's probably pretty casual. Right? You're

34:38

not in the middle of town

34:40

going out dinner every night. So I would think you just get

34:42

normal, like, jeans and

34:44

windbreakers and hiking boots. Kind of a

34:46

strange thing to wait to go up there

34:48

and

34:49

buy because it's not like you're buying ball gowns to get to go to

34:52

fancy events. And Patty's

34:54

in her work clothes. She's in her white

34:56

Honda jumper with her name

34:59

on it. You know, I don't know if she's wearing anything

35:01

under that, but that's what she's

35:03

wearing that night. And the notion that

35:05

she wouldn't even have a

35:07

change of clothes We don't blame victims on this

35:09

podcast because no one

35:12

deserves to have a crime committed against them.

35:14

But it is important for people

35:16

to think

35:18

about sort of the red flags and the danger signs I think in their own lives

35:20

just because if if you can take

35:22

something from these cases that helps you

35:25

and make you

35:26

safer, at least something good

35:28

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40:18

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games.

41:44

When you look at what's going on with

41:46

Patty, it is a dangerous relationship.

41:48

Somebody said, I was talking about that fight that people

41:50

got into on the Internet. About whether

41:52

or not the fact that

41:54

Terry was involved in extramarital

41:56

affairs, whether that had any

41:58

bearing on whether she was a murder

42:00

or not. some people are very adamant that it has no bearing reality

42:02

of the situation is,

42:04

affairs are something you

42:06

often see in murder cases.

42:08

The fact that someone is having an affair doesn't mean they're more likely to be a murderer and the

42:11

fact someone is involved with someone who's married doesn't

42:13

mean they're necessarily more likely to be

42:15

murdered. Not saying that,

42:18

But as we all know and as sad as it is

42:20

to say this, the most dangerous thing in a

42:22

woman's life is a man. And unfortunately 169

42:26

too often, women are

42:28

killed by people they love or people they

42:30

are with. And so think it's worth it to think

42:32

about sort of red

42:34

flags and this one, I mean, climbing into the into

42:36

the back of the truck. That was

42:38

pretty bad. That's a pretty bad

42:40

red flag. This

42:42

one seems really bad. I mean, this one

42:44

is like, I wanna make sure you

42:46

have nothing Nothing traceable. I'm

42:49

not gonna get rid of anything because you're not gonna have

42:52

anything. You're just gonna have

42:54

yourself. And I know when you're in

42:56

love with somebody, you never

42:58

view things. Like this

43:00

through that lens, but wow, this was

43:02

you know, she told her family about this. Her

43:04

family knew about all these things. That's how we

43:06

know. Because they've told the

43:09

police, and they've been public about

43:11

this. And and and they were

43:13

like, this seems really strange.

43:15

This doesn't seem right. But

43:17

Patty had an explanation for it. And

43:19

at the end of the day, her family was just

43:21

kinda like, well, she's a grown woman. If she

43:24

thinks it's okay, I guess

43:26

it's okay. And, wow, I know it's it's tough to be

43:28

in that situation, 169, man,

43:30

I mean, this one 169 is

43:32

a huge red flag. It really is.

43:35

Yeah.

43:35

And here here's an interesting thing. Like, we have no

43:37

reason well, not no

43:39

reason, but if

43:42

Patty had kept this to herself and not told anyone, this

43:44

would have been more confusing. Right?

43:46

We would have been more like, wait, did she really

43:48

plan to go to Canada? But the fact

43:50

that she told her sister this.

43:53

What Bob told her about buying clothes and accessories is

43:55

really important to know because

43:57

that's that's tying it to

43:59

Bob. But I don't know. So far, you either

44:01

believe Bob or you believe

44:04

Patty through her

44:05

sister, Marsha. But what was going on

44:07

there? Well, we're about to

44:09

some concrete evidence of their

44:12

relationship. As I said, Bob was completely adamant

44:14

that he was not in a relationship with Patty. His

44:16

wife said the

44:18

same thing. Bob didn't even own a cabin in Canada, so he had no

44:20

idea what all these people

44:22

were talking about, and he told the

44:24

police that. And he never backed

44:26

down from that position. And as far as I know,

44:28

to this day, he did not. He was

44:30

ever in a

44:32

relationship with Patty. Now he

44:34

did admit that Patty had sent him a birthday card

44:36

and he had actually ripped

44:40

it up he didn't want his wife to find

44:42

it and he was afraid that she would become suspicious something was going on between them even

44:44

though nothing was. It's never clear

44:47

if Bob ever specifically

44:50

says, this lady

44:52

had had something wrong with her she

44:54

thought we were in relationship, but we weren't.

44:56

But it feels like that is definitely what he's sort of implying with this card thing. She sent

44:58

me this card. It was inappropriate. I tore it up.

45:00

Didn't want my wife to think anything was

45:04

going on. When it wasn't. The police were certainly suspicious and

45:06

they actually ended up getting a

45:08

search warrant which they executed on

45:10

July thirteenth

45:12

on Bob's home. There,

45:14

they found what they described as

45:16

a cell phone and a t shirt that

45:18

Patty had purchased for Bob 169 that's not

45:20

all. They also found a letter from Patty

45:23

to Bob talking about their relationship and how much Patty

45:25

was excited about being

45:28

with him. Arguably

45:30

any of these things could still be sort

45:32

of a delusional Patty believing

45:34

she was in a relationship she wasn't in

45:37

but they certainly make that

45:40

harder to believe. Absolutely.

45:42

Especially because if you're gonna rip up the one

45:44

carb 169 you rip up the rest of

45:46

it and also a card is a one time thing. All

45:48

these other things is like a

45:50

pattern that you would think you'd at least be

45:52

like, hey, wife, This lady keeps

45:54

sending me stuff. I promise nothing's going on, but

45:56

she, like, literally, cannot stop sending me things.

45:58

You know, it's strange to you to keep the rest of the

46:00

stuff. Now according to

46:02

Marsha, bye had been taking money from Patty. In

46:04

addition to his job at Honda, Bob, as

46:06

we mentioned, has a side business as

46:08

169 my panic.

46:10

Now, Bob had a partner in his business and he wanted

46:12

to buy him out. Patty had cashed

46:15

out her 401K sold

46:18

stock and taken out a

46:20

second mortgage on her home and

46:22

money out of her account. So basically, she

46:24

is like cashing in everything, her retirement, her

46:26

home, her stock, absolutely

46:28

everything she owns. In order to

46:30

loan it to buy, to

46:34

allegedly allow him to buy out his

46:36

partner. In total, she'd given

46:38

him ninety thousand dollars or at

46:40

least that's what we're told. Because there's no

46:42

record of this money going to Bob. However,

46:44

family members claim to

46:46

have found empty cash bands

46:48

in Patty's home, indicating that most of the money

46:51

was given in cash, which 169

46:53

course is not traceable. Now, Patty

46:56

had told Marsha that they had to be careful lest

46:58

his wife noticed the money coming in. And

47:00

so Patty had also told Marsha that

47:02

she was going to have Bob start paying

47:06

her back for all the money he'd borrowed from her, and the

47:08

payments were to start in

47:10

July of two thousand

47:12

one. So the month they were going

47:14

to take this trip. That's a lot money for someone

47:16

like for a single mother, as you can tell,

47:18

because it's not like she just had this sitting around.

47:21

She had to liquidate basically

47:23

all of her assets in order to reach that ninety thousand dollars.

47:25

And Patty's twenty nine years old. She's twenty nine years old. That's

47:28

impressive. She has that much money. And that's what

47:30

her family said.

47:31

Her family said, look, she

47:33

was great with money, and she was really

47:35

committed to saving her money. And until

47:37

Bob comes along, she never would have

47:39

done anything like this. And she'd started off basically at the bottom

47:41

at Honda. She'd worked herself up to a

47:43

shift supervisor, but you can imagine for a

47:45

very long time she wasn't

47:47

making that much money 169 she's raising

47:49

a daughter by herself. We all know expensive kids are. So yeah, the fact that

47:52

she had saved ninety

47:54

thousand dollars pretty

47:56

impressive. And it goes somewhere. The

47:58

police have been able to identify

48:01

ninety thousand dollars that

48:04

left patty. Now we don't know where it went because we can't trace it.

48:06

Like Al said, we can't trace cash. There's

48:08

no evidence of this going into

48:11

any accounts of Bob's So

48:13

it's a little unclear exactly where this money went.

48:16

And I'll say this,

48:16

ninety

48:17

thousand dollars is a lot of money to

48:19

get and there be no

48:21

trace No suspicious deposits into your account.

48:24

No suspicious purchases that

48:26

the police are able to identify

48:29

find the person

48:29

who, you know, you bought it from and say, oh, yeah. He

48:32

paid he paid ten thousand dollars in

48:34

cash. And this kind of

48:36

evidence is the very kind of evidence that often puts people in

48:38

jail or in prison for for

48:39

a very long time because even though

48:41

cash is not traceable when you

48:43

see that money, you see big

48:46

deposits going in, you see big

48:48

withdrawals coming out. That tells a story and it tells a

48:50

story you can tell to a jury, but we don't have

48:52

that here. If the money went to Bob, he was smart about it. And you

48:54

see with Patty, I some of you most

48:56

of you probably have either read

48:58

Gone Girl or seen the movie,

49:01

Gong girl. You would basically have to

49:03

believe that Patty is

49:06

devious to the to the

49:08

extent of the woman in that

49:10

movie or in that book where she has

49:12

really planned this out

49:14

to either frame Bob

49:16

for her eventual disappearance. The ninety thousand dollars

49:18

didn't go to Bob because she used it to start a new life because

49:21

the whole time she was planning on framing

49:23

Bob for her murder, because

49:26

he rejected her. You would have to you would

49:28

basically have to believe that to

49:30

think that Bob is telling the

49:32

truth. It is a it's either it's

49:34

kinda the old Occam Fraser

49:36

thing. Right? Either this is one of

49:38

the craziest true crime stories you've ever

49:40

heard or it is very

49:44

very typical. The police

49:46

obviously did not think

49:48

this is the craziest true crime

49:50

story you've ever heard. They were focused

49:52

on Bob. They'd already had one search

49:54

warrant, and they decided to execute

49:56

another one. Now their conflicting reports

49:58

on this they either executed another search warrant or

50:00

Bob consented to the search

50:02

of his home and

50:04

his business. Let me just go ahead and tell

50:06

you. If you think that's significant that he would

50:08

consent, it's not. People

50:10

consent all the time when they are

50:12

absolutely guilty of a crime and know

50:14

there's evidence of their guilt,

50:16

whoever's gonna be searched. Not really clear to

50:18

me why people do that, but they do it all the time. I

50:20

don't know if they think the police will miss

50:21

169, and then they'll assume that they're innocent or what. They

50:23

do it all the time.

50:24

But however they got it, the police really went to

50:27

town, owned Bob's property. There were

50:29

some ponds, they drained them, they

50:31

searched them, they ended up draining

50:33

and searching some ponds on

50:36

neighbors property. They dug up the

50:38

yard. And you

50:40

remember that concrete we

50:42

talked about. One of the projects

50:45

that he undertook that

50:47

week he was just in Canada was

50:49

to pour some new concrete. And

50:51

the police, when they saw this, they were pretty

50:53

excited to search it. And as a matter of fact,

50:55

they had cadaver dogs run through the

50:57

property, and where did

51:00

they go? They went to the concrete.

51:02

And so the police were like, this is

51:04

it. We're gonna dig up

51:06

this concrete. 169 there

51:08

the body is going to be. But unfortunately, when they did dig up

51:11

the concrete, they didn't find anything.

51:14

Nobody, no evidence of

51:16

a body. Which makes you

51:18

wonder what exactly is going on here? Was there

51:20

a body there that had been

51:22

moved? Or did the dogs just

51:24

get it

51:24

wrong? Which as great as dogs are,

51:27

sometimes they do get it wrong. But

51:29

like, man, how suspicious. Right? Like, when you hear

51:31

about the pouring of the concrete, the first

51:33

thing you think is, interesting that you had planned to

51:35

pour concrete the same week that this

51:37

this woman who was supposed to be having

51:39

a relationship with you appears.

51:41

And that's another thing to know is that the pouring of the

51:44

concrete, I think, had been planned. It

51:46

wasn't a spur the moment, let's pour

51:48

some concrete. This was a home

51:50

project that Bob and his wife

51:52

had planned on doing. And so this

51:54

is, again, something that's slotted out in

51:56

advance. Now, I've never gotten rid

51:58

of a body for, but we

52:00

have seen exfoliation of evidence all

52:02

the time, Brett. And it is hard to make

52:04

some person disappear completely, but

52:08

it's not sensible. Right? And so maybe the dogs got

52:10

it wrong, maybe something about the new scent

52:12

of the concrete threw them off, or

52:14

they did hit on

52:16

something, but whatever had been there

52:18

had been removed and the concrete masked some smell

52:20

169 not all the smell. Remember that whole

52:22

truck cover thing? Well, the police

52:25

find the truck and it did not have a cover on

52:27

it. And when police searched Bob's business, they

52:30

find the cover. And Bob admits that he

52:32

ordered the

52:34

cover put it on the day

52:36

that Patty went missing. A week later,

52:38

he took the cover off, and

52:40

Bob said he bought the covered protect

52:42

fishing gear. Now, Bob had no explanation for why he'd

52:44

taken the cover off. A service manager has

52:47

his business that he was surprised eyes

52:49

that Bob bought this kind of cover as

52:52

they were always carrying equipment in the back of

52:54

the truck that just wouldn't fit under

52:56

the cover. Right? We've talked about this

52:58

cover. It's like you buttoned it in

53:00

basically so it's flush against the bed

53:02

of the truck and it's a very kind of

53:04

narrow height

53:06

and if it's a work van, you've probably seen this like on the road. There's

53:08

like ladders and other equipment

53:10

coming out of the truck. That's

53:13

why it's helpful to have a truck when

53:15

you own this type of a business because of the oddly

53:17

shaped and large equipment that you

53:19

often have to transport. So

53:21

in other words, there

53:24

wasn't really a work reason for

53:26

this cover even though this truck

53:28

was used for work. Reasons. And if

53:31

Bob used it to cover his fishing gear, why

53:33

did the fishing gear only need to be

53:35

covered for a week and then not again

53:37

after that? So the

53:39

police took the cover and they tested it and they

53:41

found hairs consistent with

53:44

Patty's cat. They also found

53:46

a drop of blood, but it was too small

53:48

to test at the time

53:50

without consuming the entire

53:52

sample. Remember, we've talked about this. DNA

53:54

is consumable and so

53:57

you can't test a piece of DNA repeatedly.

53:59

Each time you test it, it burns

54:01

it up, especially if it's a very small

54:03

sample. It may be so small that

54:05

you use it up all in one sample. And so if they're not

54:07

sure that they can get usable information

54:10

out of it, they may hold off on

54:12

testing until technology gets

54:14

better because once you expend

54:16

that sample, it's all gone.

54:18

169, it's unclear whether advancing technology has allowed

54:20

them to test the blood at this point, but they do still have

54:22

the blood sample. And actually have an update

54:24

on

54:25

that. I was able to find out that -- Yeah.

54:27

-- they have, indeed, male

54:30

tested the blood. 169, fortunately,

54:33

it was Bob's. So it

54:35

was not helpful in the

54:38

case. Obviously, if it had been patties, that would have been huge. You still

54:40

have the hairs that are consistent with the cat,

54:42

which is something, but it's not as

54:44

good. That's actually a huge thing. Right?

54:47

Because if Bob be saying that crazy lady had

54:49

no relationship with him, it's

54:51

actually weirder for her cat's

54:54

hair to be on his cover because

54:56

a cat that probably lives at home. And it would

54:58

be easier to have your own

55:00

DNA come off of you, like to shaw off your own

55:02

DNA because you have more of your own DNA

55:04

than to

55:06

shaw off off contact DNA because like if the

55:08

cat DNA is on her

55:10

sweater and then it gets on the

55:11

cover, that's like one

55:14

removed I think that's really DNA. agree.

55:16

This is one of those cases where

55:18

this one's pretty close to being able

55:21

to prosecute. 169 think

55:23

this is awesome of those cases where the police really are hoping

55:26

for one more one more piece of

55:28

evidence. We've talked about those

55:30

cases before. This is definitely one of those where they need at least

55:32

one more piece of evidence. We

55:34

know that Bob eventually he took a

55:36

polygraph test

55:38

he failed it. You can read into that whatever you want to. We've

55:40

made our position on polygraph's pretty

55:42

clear, but nevertheless, he did

55:46

fail it. And shortly thereafter, he quit his job at the

55:48

Honda plant. And as far as anyone

55:50

knows, to this day,

55:52

Bob maintains that

55:54

he did not have a relationship with Patty.

55:56

And he did not have anything to do with her

55:59

disappearance. And it is

56:01

unclear how, if at

56:03

all, He has explained the evidence of their

56:05

relationship and her presence in the truck.

56:07

As I said, I don't know if his position

56:09

is. This lady's

56:12

crazy. And was making all this up or not, but

56:14

it would almost have to be

56:16

something like that in order

56:18

for Bob's story to be

56:21

through. Those are some pretty good things to pretty

56:23

big things to not have an

56:25

explanation for though. I would say if that were

56:27

my husband, I'd have a lot

56:30

of questions. Now Patty at Kens would be fifty

56:32

years old today. She's

56:34

described as being five eight

56:36

and weighing a hundred and twenty

56:38

pounds. So

56:40

slim tall woman. And this was at the time of her disappearance,

56:42

169, spent quite some time since

56:44

she disappeared twenty one years. She does

56:46

have pierced ears, a pierced belly button,

56:49

and a tattoo of bluish green

56:52

Smith placed horizontally on her

56:54

lower back. If you have

56:56

any information on

56:58

the circumstances surrounding Patty's case. Please, please,

57:00

please. Call Lieutenant

57:02

Jeff Steers at 9376454126.

57:12

You can leave anonymous information

57:14

if you want that they have have

57:16

a voice mail on the Union County Sheriff's Office Crime

57:18

Tip hotline, which is 9376427653.

57:26

Guys, if this story you're

57:29

you're gritting your teeth and

57:31

you're yelling at the speakers because you're like, this is so

57:34

there seems to be enough information there. There's

57:36

obviously not quite enough

57:38

information. And if you were at a Burger King

57:40

that night, IF YOU

57:42

WERE ONE OF THE EMPLOYEES WHO STUCK

57:44

AROUND THE PARKING LOT AND SAW

57:46

SOMETHING. IF YOU GOT A WEAR

57:48

CALL THE NEXT DAY from one of these

57:50

people. Now is the time to talk about

57:52

it because time has

57:54

passed. There's been no trace of paddy.

57:56

Each day that slips away,

57:58

I think, It's harder and harder to kind of see

58:00

justice be had, but the

58:02

police are so very interested in

58:04

hearing the tips. If you know

58:06

anything, please call Lieutenant Steyer's at

58:08

9376454126

58:11

or the hotline at

58:13

9376427653.

58:15

And we hope somebody does have some

58:18

information. And, obviously, you

58:22

can also reach out to us if if you don't wanna talk to

58:24

someone else. We're always happy to talk to

58:26

you guys about anything

58:28

you

58:29

have. And Hopefully, somebody will have a tip that'll solve

58:32

the case. Until then though, all we

58:34

have are potential theories

58:36

about what might have

58:37

happened in

58:37

this case.

58:40

And so let's talk about this first theory.

58:43

It's that Patty, you

58:45

know, really was going on this vacation and

58:47

she really was in a relationship with

58:49

Bob but someone intercepted her on her

58:51

way out of the plant before

58:53

she was able to get to

58:56

Bob. And she didn't disappear on her

58:58

own accord, someone

59:00

made her disappear. She was just unlucky

59:02

person. It is midnight when she's leaving. It's

59:05

pretty dark. It's pretty late. There's a reason

59:07

that a lot of crimes happen at night is because fewer people

59:09

are out, fewer witnesses, it's low visibility. So that could

59:11

have happened, except that there's just

59:13

absolutely no evidence of

59:16

this. And also, I guess, you'd have to believe that she really

59:18

wasn't with Bob because I

59:20

would think that even if

59:22

Bob wanted to deny the relationship,

59:25

169 the love of his life

59:27

or his girlfriend went missing, he

59:29

would at least report it just as a,

59:31

like, a coworker's reported missing,

59:34

you know, I WAS SUPPOSED TO GIVE

59:36

HER A RIDE HOME AND X Y and Z AND LET SOMEBODY KNOW BUT THAT OBVIOUSLY

59:38

NEVER HAPPENED. AND SO WHILE THAT

59:41

a possibility. I think there's just no

59:44

evidence that appoints to it. And

59:46

you would think that at

59:48

least Bob would react differently if he had been waiting

59:50

for her say by his truck and she never

59:52

showed

59:52

up. And even if you think Bob is a scumbag

59:54

who would do that, who

59:57

would who would leave and go to the Burger King and take two and a half

59:59

hours. And then either didn't realize she wasn't in the

1:00:01

truck or when he finally gets somewhere and he opens

1:00:03

up the cover and she's

1:00:06

not there. would just be like,

1:00:08

oh, well, tough for her. I'm just not gonna tell anybody. Even if you think that

1:00:10

the problem is, that would

1:00:12

mean that everything else is true.

1:00:15

Right? That would mean they did have this relationship and they

1:00:17

were going to Canada, which would also

1:00:20

seem to mean that Bob would have needed to

1:00:22

have already made the excuse to

1:00:24

the wife that hey, I'm going off for a

1:00:26

week. And then somehow it gets canceled at the

1:00:28

last minute. And he's like, oh, never run. I'm gonna stay

1:00:30

home and do projects instead. But he

1:00:32

didn't do that. So

1:00:34

the idea that someone else could have been involved, that

1:00:36

someone else could have intercepted her prevented

1:00:38

this weekend or this week

1:00:40

from happening, it just doesn't seem

1:00:43

plausible at all. And

1:00:45

I think really leaves you with

1:00:47

only the two alternatives that we've talked about up to

1:00:49

this point, which is either Patty

1:00:54

really just had a

1:00:56

deep seated mental

1:00:58

issue here. To the level of craziest

1:01:00

fiction. Or Bob did

1:01:02

something to her. I think those are your two

1:01:04

options. 169 you start with first

1:01:07

169. There's nothing

1:01:09

definitive that you can

1:01:12

point to that proves beyond

1:01:15

Adkins doubt

1:01:16

that Patty didn't make all this up.

1:01:18

So it's possible that

1:01:20

Bruce talked about how Patty was would

1:01:23

flirt with him on the line. She could be doing

1:01:25

that. She could be telling her friends she's in a relationship

1:01:27

with him. She could be sending him

1:01:29

letters and and everything

1:01:32

else. About how great and wonderful he is and how she wants me in relationship

1:01:34

with him. And he just,

1:01:37

for whatever reason, just sort of

1:01:40

like, thanks to himself, wow,

1:01:42

that lady. Crazy. But I'm just gonna move

1:01:44

on with my life. Right? I mean, any

1:01:46

of that that there's nothing we can

1:01:48

point to. She even could have climbed in

1:01:50

the back of that truck and got the cat hair on the

1:01:51

cover. That is possible. And

1:01:54

then use

1:01:54

the ninety thousand dollars

1:01:55

to disappear. She's

1:01:58

so angry at this man that

1:01:59

she's willing to fake her own death, to frame

1:02:01

him, leave her family and her

1:02:03

daughter behind, and use the money that she's

1:02:05

been taking out. To

1:02:08

star any life. I guess that's

1:02:10

possible. I guess there's a world in which

1:02:12

that could be

1:02:14

true. But There's

1:02:16

a lot of circumstantial evidence here.

1:02:18

The cover is a big one. Because

1:02:20

in order for that to be true,

1:02:22

you have to assume the cover just a

1:02:24

coincidence that Bob really did

1:02:26

buy an expensive cover. These are expensive

1:02:28

covers. There's one of them in 169 cheap

1:02:31

purchase. To put on his work truck, to protect his

1:02:33

fishing gear. From what? Exactly, I don't

1:02:35

know, because fishing gear gets wet. I mean, it's sort of

1:02:37

the whole point of it. But he's protecting his

1:02:40

fishing gear for a week, but then takes it off. It just

1:02:42

so happens to put it on the very

1:02:44

day that Patty is

1:02:46

gonna climb into the back of his truck, which he

1:02:48

didn't even

1:02:50

know wouldn't even know he's gonna have. Right? Because he doesn't normally drive the truck.

1:02:52

But she that she's gonna luck

1:02:54

out on this. She's playing everything else, but she's

1:02:56

gonna luck out that he just so happens to drive

1:03:00

the truck. That on that day, he just so happened to have put a cover on.

1:03:02

So she's gonna be able to hide in the back of the truck

1:03:04

and surprise him at some point.

1:03:06

Or not surprise him just disappeared to

1:03:08

the darkness after

1:03:10

climbing to the truck for the purposes of leaving some cat hair behind

1:03:12

so that one day the police 169 believe

1:03:14

he did it. You have to think that

1:03:17

all that is true. Which

1:03:20

might work in a

1:03:22

a out there Ben

1:03:24

Affleck movie. Probably not

1:03:26

gonna work in real life. That's probably

1:03:28

not what happened. And you basically

1:03:30

have to believe that something like that went

1:03:32

down to think that this is some

1:03:34

made up thing

1:03:36

by Patty. But to believe that Bob has to do with it's a lot

1:03:38

easier. And when you read about

1:03:40

this case online, a lot

1:03:42

of times,

1:03:44

People people try and give Bob an out. One of the things they

1:03:46

say is, well, maybe she suffocated. She

1:03:48

was underneath the cover and she

1:03:51

suffocated. Maybe it was carbon dioxide, which you could imagine

1:03:54

being possible, being locked in that, as Al

1:03:56

said, coffin. Maybe she

1:03:57

overheated. It was only seventy eight degrees at night,

1:04:00

which is a

1:04:02

warm night. But probably not hot enough that you would succumb to the

1:04:04

elements. But once again, the problem

1:04:06

with that is you have to assume that the

1:04:08

rest of it's true. You have to assume

1:04:10

that trip was

1:04:12

gonna

1:04:12

happen. it got interrupted because she died. He freaked out and did

1:04:14

something about it. And the biggest thing against

1:04:16

that is everything that he

1:04:18

had planned with his wife

1:04:20

I mean, this man was not going to be gone for a

1:04:22

week, and that is huge. So whether

1:04:25

you believe there was an

1:04:27

affair or not, he certainly

1:04:30

wasn't going away for a week. And

1:04:32

that's just huge. Right?

1:04:34

If this were an accident, he would have planned to

1:04:36

be away or have had an excuse for being

1:04:38

away. He had planned to pour a concrete

1:04:40

with his

1:04:40

wife. I I agree with you a hundred percent. To me, if

1:04:42

Bob was having an affair with

1:04:45

Patty, he killed her. That's

1:04:48

my position on this. That's my opinion.

1:04:50

If they were having an affair,

1:04:52

he murdered her, and he murdered

1:04:54

her for a combination of She

1:04:56

was getting too clingy. He couldn't get rid of her, and he really couldn't

1:04:58

get rid of her, not just because she would tell

1:05:00

his wife because of the ninety thousand

1:05:04

dollars. He'd taken ninety thousand dollars from her that he was supposed to start

1:05:06

repaying the very month

1:05:08

that she went missing.

1:05:10

Now if she goes missing,

1:05:12

over the July fourth holiday. When is he supposed

1:05:15

to be paying this money

1:05:15

back? July. 169 what

1:05:18

a coincidence? 169 mean,

1:05:20

I mean, I'm gonna go even so far as to say

1:05:22

that, unfortunately, she may have just been

1:05:25

been used. Like, he may

1:05:27

have seen her if if

1:05:29

they had a relationship as someone who was responsible with

1:05:32

169, who had

1:05:34

assets 169

1:05:36

maybe this was the plan all along. Get all the money because this

1:05:38

is not a situation where he missed payments for

1:05:40

multiple months. Right? It was he

1:05:43

hadn't even missed a payment yet 169

1:05:46

I don't know that she would have been like

1:05:48

threatening him because remember she's still all

1:05:50

rosy about the relationship. She hasn't let

1:05:52

on to anyone who knows about this relationship 169 there are

1:05:55

problems. It's not hasn't paid me

1:05:57

back yet. Nothing like that.

1:05:59

The the relationship it's at

1:06:01

its which lends me to believe if there was a

1:06:04

relationship that all along,

1:06:06

it was not about her, it was

1:06:09

about using her, THEN DISPOSING OF HER BECAUSE THERE WAS A LOT

1:06:11

OF

1:06:11

LIBULITY, NOT ONLY FINANCIALLY BUT OBVIOUSLY WITH HIS

1:06:14

FAMILY. IT REMIND YOU A

1:06:16

LOT OF the the lady

1:06:18

vanishes case. Marion Barter. I

1:06:20

mean, a man who

1:06:22

sells a dream to

1:06:24

someone who wants to believe that dream

1:06:26

is true. In this

1:06:28

case, a young woman who's raising her

1:06:30

daughter on her own, she wants that that

1:06:32

hallmark movie ending where she meets the guy and

1:06:34

they fall in love everything is sunshine

1:06:36

and roses from that point forward. And

1:06:38

she believes that's gonna happen. And

1:06:40

much luck in the lady vanishes,

1:06:43

She's willing because she trusts him. And at

1:06:45

the end of the day, it's all gonna

1:06:47

be their money anyway. So if I

1:06:49

give him money, that's fine because we're gonna be

1:06:51

together. We're gonna get married. His business will

1:06:53

be my business, and his success is my success. And you can imagine all the reasons

1:06:55

you would do this. And

1:06:57

as Alice said,

1:07:00

if this is a murder, what a premeditated murder

1:07:03

it must have been? I mean, thinking about this

1:07:05

for a very long time, about how

1:07:07

this was gonna go down, and

1:07:10

secure in the belief that no one knew about the

1:07:12

relationship. And go back all the way

1:07:14

back to what did he do when Marsha

1:07:17

calls? He didn't hang up

1:07:19

on her. He quizzes her. He digs deep. He

1:07:21

tries to find out everything that

1:07:23

she knew. He wanted that information. He

1:07:25

needed that information. Because

1:07:28

if Patty had not told anyone

1:07:30

about this, perfect crime.

1:07:32

He has committed the perfect crime, if no

1:07:34

one 169, because no one would even suspect.

1:07:37

No one would know about her climbing into the back of a

1:07:39

of a truck then disappearing

1:07:41

afterwards, she would just vanish in the

1:07:44

thin air. And so that becomes really important. And you you know

1:07:46

what? It kinda was a perfect

1:07:48

crime. She's gone and there's been no

1:07:50

sign of her and there's been

1:07:52

no prosecution. 169 there's no

1:07:54

kind of beyond a reasonable doubt

1:07:56

tying him to her.

1:07:58

And so in a lot of

1:07:59

ways, he did. If

1:08:02

he did this, commit the perfect

1:08:04

crime. It it is. And it's also just

1:08:06

continued to go back to Australian

1:08:08

podcast. Those of you

1:08:10

who followed the teacher's pet case, the Chris

1:08:12

Dawson case in Australia. His

1:08:14

wife disappeared,

1:08:16

vanished, 169 he

1:08:18

ended up having an affair with or he was having an affair with like a sixteen year old babysitter at the time. Not a good guy.

1:08:20

His wife disappears

1:08:23

and it takes ever

1:08:26

from them to prosecute him, but they eventually

1:08:28

do. They eventually prosecute him and they get sort of a nobody conviction.

1:08:30

And it was just because the circumstances of the whole thing

1:08:35

were so insane that no one could believe that she would

1:08:37

disappear on her own. And he was

1:08:39

the only person who really had

1:08:41

the opportunity to do anything

1:08:44

about it. You have a similar situation here. This is

1:08:46

a really close case to being able to prosecute. Kinda agree with Alice. I mean,

1:08:48

I don't know. I'm kinda torn

1:08:50

on this whole beyond reasonable doubt

1:08:52

thing. I'm torn in

1:08:54

the sense of do you just do you just go for a hail Mary when it's so many years out? And, you're

1:08:56

not gonna get more

1:08:59

evidence and just

1:09:01

see what a jury says and recognize him. Question my mind. They're waiting on the blood. Well,

1:09:03

now the blood's been tested and it's not hers. So yeah. Now look.

1:09:05

You're like, it's kinda like,

1:09:07

well, I mean,

1:09:11

Following the timeline, of course, it's circumstantial, but kinda leave

1:09:13

it up to a jury because

1:09:15

if he's acquitted,

1:09:17

he's acquitted, but you're not gonna get another shot at

1:09:19

it anyways. So see, leave it up to

1:09:22

the hands of twelve jurors. You know,

1:09:24

and there's an interesting question about

1:09:26

whether or not the friend was involved if he did something

1:09:28

like this. And I'm always

1:09:30

skeptical of cases where there

1:09:33

has to be someone else involved, not

1:09:35

because it doesn't happen. There are lots

1:09:37

of cases where a friend

1:09:39

helps someone commit a murder.

1:09:42

Happens all the time. But

1:09:44

nevertheless, If that were true, you still

1:09:46

would have gone twenty something years with this person who might have known something, never saying

1:09:48

anything. It's

1:09:51

also possible that he he really did drop his

1:09:53

friend off and then whatever happened happened

1:09:55

after that. Now it wasn't

1:09:57

an angry thing because as we said there was no plan to go

1:09:59

to Canada. This had to have been, if it's a

1:10:02

murder, it was a planned murder. It was always

1:10:04

intended to

1:10:06

be a murder. And so the

1:10:07

friend could just be alibi building.

1:10:10

And the friend may be lying

1:10:12

but not for the kind of

1:10:14

illicit purpose of covering up a murder, it

1:10:16

could be that they were doing something

1:10:18

like smoking pot. And so that's why

1:10:20

it was forty five minutes because they

1:10:22

got some burgers and smoked some pot and he's not

1:10:24

gonna tell the cops that he was smoking pot because it's illegal.

1:10:26

He doesn't wanna get in trouble, so he lies a little bit and says, oh,

1:10:29

it took so long

1:10:31

because we were waiting in line. You know, we talk

1:10:33

about this all the time. When people lie, it it could be for a lot of reasons and it's

1:10:35

usually because they're self centered and

1:10:38

all they care about is themselves.

1:10:41

169 if he really believes that

1:10:43

Bob, his friend who he knows well, is not an affair, and why would he have any there's

1:10:45

no way there's another person in the

1:10:47

back of a truck, by that's

1:10:50

crazy, then why would he say anything

1:10:53

different? He doesn't know that his

1:10:55

forty five minute story may be covering

1:10:57

up something like a

1:10:58

murder. You know, could be a simple

1:11:00

as he was doing something they were doing

1:11:02

something they shouldn't have. Well, I know what I think happened in this case. If Bob wants to

1:11:05

reach out and correct

1:11:07

any in, can assistencies or things he thinks

1:11:09

are false. That's We didn't use his name. As the SUEZ for defamation, I

1:11:11

look forward to that deposition.

1:11:14

Yeah. Let it let it

1:11:16

come. But this is

1:11:18

this is a case that should be solved.

1:11:20

Kinda feel like

1:11:23

it already has been. Should

1:11:25

be solved. And we really

1:11:27

one of So 169 again,

1:11:32

if 169 If

1:11:34

you're and and hey, I'm telling you guys, y'all

1:11:36

think I'm crazy. Y'all think we're just making

1:11:38

this up. But it kinda blows my

1:11:40

mind, the people who reach out

1:11:42

to us recently 169 their connections of these

1:11:44

cases. We had one today that I'm not gonna I'm not gonna

1:11:46

tell you what it was, but it was like, 169, that's crazy

1:11:49

that you're that close

1:11:51

to this. And so It

1:11:53

is not impossible that somebody out there has some piece of information about this case. It's an

1:11:55

old case. It's not a famous case.

1:12:00

So Who knows? Maybe somebody

1:12:02

knows something. She's out there somewhere. Whether she disappeared on her own accord and

1:12:05

she's living

1:12:08

her life, in Columbus or whatever.

1:12:10

I don't know. She's out there somewhere. And finding her

1:12:12

169 whatever condition

1:12:15

you found her, could go

1:12:18

a long way to bringing closure to this case. So we hope somebody out there has something

1:12:21

that they

1:12:24

can share Alice has given

1:12:26

you the phone numbers you can call. We'll put those on the website as well. Or email us pro skaters

1:12:28

pod at g mail dot com. Reach

1:12:30

out to us on Twitter, Facebook, Instagram.

1:12:35

At prosecutors pod. Wherever you get the podcast, you

1:12:37

can reach out to us. You can send us

1:12:39

a message on YouTube or send us

1:12:41

a message on Patreon. Whatever it

1:12:43

is you do. Go ahead and do that

1:12:45

because there are so many cases we cover where it irritates me

1:12:48

because it

1:12:50

just feels like right there, and this should have been solved and it wasn't solved.

1:12:52

And that's such a they're all

1:12:54

injustices when they're not solved, but when

1:12:57

it feels like man, what is going on here?

1:12:59

Why can't we solve this

1:13:01

case? It's particularly bad. And

1:13:02

this one irritates me for that reason.

1:13:05

So I'm hoping somebody out there has

1:13:07

something. Well, I was before we sign

1:13:08

off, is there anything you wanna add? No.

1:13:10

But you got me fired up

1:13:13

after a day throwing

1:13:14

it out. Glad to get you back in the

1:13:17

game. Back. Thanks. No. But

1:13:19

I do hope that

1:13:21

there's justice for Patty and for her

1:13:23

daughter, for her daughter to finally know what happened to her

1:13:25

mom that she lost at such a young

1:13:27

age. Yes. And her

1:13:29

daughter everybody says that

1:13:32

that Patty lived for her daughter.

1:13:34

Her daughter is now a young

1:13:36

woman has grown up

1:13:38

not knowing what happened to her mom. So giving giving

1:13:40

her some closure would be fantastic.

1:13:42

Well, guys, we'll be back next week.

1:13:45

Gonna have a wrongful conviction case for

1:13:47

you. Next week. Is it wrong for conviction or not? Well, we'll try and

1:13:49

figure that out. So hope you guys looking

1:13:51

forward to that. But

1:13:54

until

1:13:55

then, I'm Brett. 169

1:13:58

I'm Alice. We are the prosecutor.

1:14:21

You know, my, like, worst fear is that when I

1:14:23

disappear, it'll, like, say the real stats. Like, how

1:14:25

tall I

1:14:26

am, how old I am. 169

1:14:30

how much I weigh.

1:14:31

You know? That's the weight. Yeah. It's like, gosh,

1:14:32

do I have do I have to put the

1:14:35

weight there? Like, a picture can do it enough justice.

1:14:37

You know? Like, I used

1:14:38

to be six feet tall, but I think I'm strong. Right. Eleven. Yeah.

1:14:41

I'm, like, definitely. To

1:14:43

be six feet You

1:14:46

know? I'm not five four, but I say I'm five four. I'm five

1:14:48

three.

1:15:51

You're your best. It's starting

1:15:53

off that important to find

1:15:56

me.

1:15:56

It's more important that I

1:15:59

remembered. So I want to be remembered. Right? I mean,

1:16:01

exactly. Like, do you think she's actually

1:16:03

twenty nine 169 was like, I

1:16:05

had twenty nine for the fourth time? Exactly.

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