0:05

This is the relevant

0:12

podcast.

0:18

This episode 1166 and it's the

0:20

relevant podcast 1166. Here

0:23

in Orlando, I'm your host Cameron Strang and joining

0:25

me from Loverland, Virginia is Jesse Kiri. Hello,

0:28

hello. I'm Nashville, our managing

0:30

editor, downtown Emily Brown. Hey y'all.

0:33

Three of us today. Welcome back. You

0:35

missed the last episode because you were with your family

0:38

in Fort Worth, Texas. And

0:41

we missed you. I'm glad you're back. Jesse,

0:44

I got to tell you, we

0:46

work video. So like we had many

0:48

meetings and stuff and she was working

0:50

from her mom's quilt room. Right.

0:54

So, I thought, oh, that's great for acoustics.

0:56

You should do interviews. I mean, there's just

0:58

fabric draped all over the walls. This is

1:00

great. Yeah. And I

1:02

was asking about a certain quilt that was directly behind her, you

1:04

know, the meaning of this, that one. And

1:07

she said, but probably the best

1:10

tapestry type item

1:12

in my mom's home is a

1:14

blanket, a woven tapestry blanket of

1:17

me and my brother when we were in

1:20

high school. And it was

1:22

a picture, a woven, full

1:25

size like blanket. Metal up

1:27

soft blanket where it is woven. And

1:29

it was 2009 emo Emily. We

1:32

call her Emily. And she

1:35

had the swoop side dark black hair

1:37

side part. Her brother did too.

1:40

And it was their two faces, probably six

1:42

feet tall. It was amazing. It was the

1:44

most amazing thing ever. It's like a full

1:46

size blanket. Yeah. Okay. I

1:49

have a question because I'm having trouble visualizing

1:51

this, believe it or not. Are

1:54

we talking like this was a

1:56

quilt and this, this photo, like it

1:58

was sort of. somehow like screen printed

2:01

on or or was it was

2:03

the the photo like is

2:05

your mom some sort of like woven

2:07

like crochet savant where she's like looking

2:10

at a photo and using pieces of

2:12

yarn to illustrate

2:14

this like in in like a

2:16

kind of illustrated cartoony manner or

2:18

is this a photograph? Um

2:21

I now wish it was the crochet one

2:23

because that would be so much funnier. No

2:25

so what happened was um what that year

2:27

for I don't know why my

2:29

mom really wanted us to have family photos taken so

2:32

we went on down to JCPenney and

2:34

had some classic family photo shoots

2:37

um and you know different ones with like the whole

2:39

family than ones that just my brother and I and

2:42

we picked them you know to print out

2:44

and put in my home but we saw that there

2:46

was also an option that JCPenney could make a tapestry

2:48

out of one of the photos and

2:50

so we conspired and said we're gonna get

2:52

this from my mom for Christmas um

2:55

as a surprise so she had all these photos of

2:57

us up in the house and then Christmas

3:00

Day she now has this blanket tapestry

3:02

of a 2009 emo Emily and emo Matthew just

3:07

just looking and it's not screen printed it's not like you

3:10

can put it on a beach bag or something like that

3:12

yeah it is it is woven

3:14

the picture is woven and so I was

3:16

like holy cow this is like hundreds

3:19

and hundreds this is a good gift and she's

3:21

like oh no no you can get it for

3:23

like 30 bucks online and so I she sent

3:25

me a website and sure enough you can upload

3:27

any photo and they will weave a blanket out

3:29

of it up to you know queen size king

3:31

size huge blankets for like 30 40 bucks I

3:35

put I put in there just as

3:37

a comp a Nicholas Cage head and

3:39

it said husband material or husband goals and

3:41

I are you know beautifully designed and I

3:44

was like I could make this for you

3:46

for your you know giftively

3:49

this this makes me so

3:51

nostalgic for like the

3:53

golden age of department stores so a lot of

3:55

people think of the golden age of department stores

3:57

is like the madmen era you know where it's

4:00

You know, it's like a where people dress up

4:02

to go to like Sears and Roebuck or whatever

4:04

your Montgomery Ward or whatever You know what I

4:07

mean? Like it was like a big outing as

4:09

the family and and and everyone would look sharp

4:11

A lot of people think that was the Golden

4:13

Age of department stores, you know, like Christmas story

4:15

or whatever Yeah, well, you know where there's like

4:18

a slide going through and going at Christmas times

4:20

big deal No, no, no the Golden

4:22

Age is Christmas stores. Were you going

4:24

to JC penny by a set of

4:26

tires? Okay by

4:28

like bugle boy jeans

4:33

You know fitness equipment and They

4:36

also have a family portrait studio where

4:38

you can get photos taken and have

4:40

them woven onto a quilt all in

4:43

one Experience on jammed onto the side

4:45

of a shopping mall. That is

4:47

the Golden Age of American consumerism right there

4:51

Yeah, and now you can do all that you

4:53

just do it all online and there's no fun.

4:55

That's no fun. Exactly I want

4:57

to go there and then I want to go

5:00

to the food court and that's you know That

5:02

is that is the Golden Age of a family

5:04

portrait with cinnabons afterwards. I mean, come on I

5:08

mean, honestly the quilt holds up it's been What

5:11

15 years and it's still a solid

5:13

part of the family house. The worst part

5:15

though is in college Like

5:18

when we when I brought friends home and

5:20

they would see the blanket for the first

5:22

time Their favorite blanket Because

5:24

they thought it was so funny looking and so then

5:26

I would be like sitting on the couch with

5:28

my friends and they'd be Like underneath

5:31

this blanket. So I'm staring at them while also staring

5:33

at my high school self and

5:36

it was That was tough.

5:38

That was tough to kind of like come face

5:40

to face with probably my worst haircut of all

5:42

time What are you talking about? I gotta be

5:44

honest. You had the whole a ravine side part

5:47

swoosh. Oh, I'm fully aware I

5:49

had it. I Gotta be

5:51

honest it I feel like if I was at a buddy's

5:53

sleepover and they were like hey man

5:55

Just use this and it's like and I'm sleeping

5:57

in a black wrapped in pictures of him and

5:59

his siblings. I think I'd feel

6:01

a little weird. I think I think I just prefer to go

6:03

without the blanket. I think I just

6:06

do, you know, what you do

6:08

at a sleepover, you know, have blankets when you're a

6:10

kid, you just grab a couple couch cushions and kind

6:12

of pure wedge yourself to stay warm. I think that

6:14

would feel less awkward than like

6:16

a family portrait. I didn't know

6:18

this existed, but it is now my official gift

6:21

for everybody. I am going to make blankets

6:23

of them and send it to them.

6:25

It's not much money. It's insane. Yeah,

6:28

I was gonna say my brother and I did it. We

6:30

were, we had no money. We were in high school. So

6:32

if two high school kids can do it, honestly,

6:35

you should go. I do wish that it

6:38

was more normalized to go to JCPenney and do family

6:40

photos because I think that it was honestly really funny

6:42

just trying on all the different things. I know they

6:44

still have it because I've seen people

6:46

on TikTok do it with like their college

6:48

roommates so that they have decor

6:50

for their house. And I think that's very funny. I

6:53

think we should bring back awkward

6:55

JCPenney family photos. We, early days,

6:57

this is this, I'm telling you

6:59

the ancient history of the thing you're part of in

7:02

2006. So we started this podcast in 2005.

7:04

In 2006, Cara Davis, Jesse Carey, Adam

7:09

Smith and myself were the podcast cast. And

7:12

we all recorded together at

7:14

our studio in Orlando. And

7:17

we decided it would be funny for

7:19

the cast to go down to JCPenney's

7:21

to do a portrait for

7:24

the podcast for advertisements and stuff.

7:26

So of course, everybody

7:28

takes on a persona like

7:30

we're in a Wes Anderson film, like Cara

7:33

has on a mink stole and Jesse has

7:36

a tennis racket like Keith.

7:39

I think I got a vest somewhere too. I don't know where.

7:41

I think I bought the vest out in the

7:46

JCPenney like menswear section. I

7:49

had on a fedora and a pipe. Adam

7:51

had on a monocle and a pipe. Like

7:53

it was great. And so we took these

7:55

photos in front of a blue

7:58

background, the most random assortment of characters. characters,

8:00

you know, and we got them printed

8:02

JC Penney's and we got them printed, we put the Roland

8:04

podcast logo in the corner and we got them made into

8:06

posters. But what's funny is obviously

8:08

we were publishing the magazine at that time. And one

8:10

of the big things for like magazine subscriptions is like

8:13

you do a promotion of like, hey, if you subscribe

8:15

today, you'll get a free football phone or you know,

8:17

whatever you know, they would be doing. So

8:19

we did a promotion one summer to kind

8:22

of tie in the podcast and

8:25

the magazine that this JC Penney's

8:27

poster of the podcast would

8:29

be included within the new subscription. But

8:32

what's funny is our

8:34

audience back then was very separated.

8:36

There was the serious magazine readers

8:38

who is a respectable, excellent magazine.

8:41

And then there was this silly, bizarre, redheaded

8:44

stepchild called our podcast and

8:46

neither of the two shall meet. I

8:48

mean, they didn't overlap at all. Like

8:50

they were totally different vibes, so different

8:52

audiences. And so all

8:54

these people subscribing to relevant were

8:57

getting in the mail this bizarre photo

8:59

of these four randos that they had

9:01

no clue who we were. And we

9:03

signed them. We like autographed all of

9:05

them like keep dreaming the dream camera,

9:07

you know, like it was like versus

9:09

and just bizarre stuff. And

9:11

so there's still people that will like message us and

9:13

go, hey, I was cleaning out my room

9:16

or like we're moving or whatever. And I came

9:18

across and they people still have these random posters.

9:20

I don't but I have the original photo

9:23

though, but we can make up new

9:25

ones. But anyway, maybe you can

9:27

print that on a tablet on a towel on

9:30

a blanket. That's what we do. Yeah,

9:32

I should I think I think, you know, that's

9:34

a product people would really want

9:36

for their homes. Yeah,

9:40

I think it is class at the joint care had

9:42

a main stole on I mean, come on. Yeah,

9:44

I know. I mean, maybe they have like a

9:46

like a lounge or something in there in their

9:48

homes, you know, like that's where that's where you

9:50

want to keep that. I feel like for

9:53

the library for the billiards room, like I feel

9:55

like there's yeah, to be a smell of mahogany

9:57

parlor in the air parlor parlor parlor parlor parlor

9:59

parlor parlor It's also good to creep people out because

10:01

my mom sometimes will fold it strategically to where it's

10:03

just my brother and I's head that's

10:06

folded over the couch. And

10:08

so then you just see two floating heads staring at you

10:10

when you walk in the room. But

10:12

only one eyeball eats because you guys both

10:14

had the hair swoop covering the other eye.

10:17

Listen. Okay, I did send you

10:19

all a picture of it if you all wanted to see the

10:21

detail. It's a great item. It's

10:26

so funny. I love it. Anyway,

10:28

all right. Moving to show log. We have

10:31

a great show coming up. Okay.

10:34

So we want to do something special, something

10:36

different today. Our guest, obviously we always have

10:39

artists and thought leaders and whatever. This

10:42

week marks the one year anniversary of one

10:44

of our faith heroes passing away, Tim Keller.

10:47

So we were going through the archives and we realized when

10:49

we talked to him about a year and a half ago,

10:51

we talked for a very,

10:53

very long time. There was a feature in the magazine, but

10:56

there was a good 20, 30 minutes of amazing conversation

11:00

that never got used.

11:02

And so for today's show, we are

11:04

going to look back on

11:06

the message, life and legacy of Tim Keller. And

11:09

he is our guest today.

11:11

So I thought it would be a neat way to commemorate

11:14

his ministry and his passing a year

11:16

ago. So he's a legend. He's

11:18

a legend. One of the heroes. We

11:21

also have your feedback at the end of the show, but

11:23

stay tuned. Coming up next, it's relevant

11:25

buzz. We're

11:54

going to

11:57

sing to Jake. The song is Clouds.

12:00

Well, today's show is brought to you

12:02

in part by The Grace Project, a

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compelling new novel by author Kyle Bullock.

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Alright, it's time for... Rounding Buzz.

13:04

Tell us what's happening at the intersection of faith and culture

13:06

this week, Emily. Alright,

13:09

well, you guys know the Tiny

13:11

Desk concert that NPR puts on, right?

13:13

Just like an incredible music series

13:15

with tons of different artists. Do y'all have any favorites

13:17

that come to mind when you think about Tiny Desk?

13:20

The T-Pain one where he had no other tunes. Yeah, I was

13:22

going to say T-Pain. Legendary. In the

13:24

last year, The Sacred Souls, unbelievable.

13:29

I've got one for... I feel like this blanket

13:31

Emily and her brother would have also really liked

13:33

to commute World One a few years ago. That

13:36

was fun. And

13:39

you know what? I can confirm. We did love that

13:41

one. So... You, Emily, did you

13:43

love the Fall Out Boy one? The Fall Out Boy? Of

13:45

course I did. You know, wait, real fun

13:48

fact about Fall Out Boy. I graduated college

13:50

the same day they were doing their reunion

13:52

concert in Dallas. And

13:54

so I walked across the stage, said hi to like

13:56

three people at the end, and then booked it to

13:58

the concert. a great time. There's

14:01

no better way to graduate college than going to

14:03

a following. Oh, wait, I said college. I meant

14:05

high school. Yeah.

14:08

So that's how I finished high school. Anyways,

14:10

okay. So Tiny

14:12

Desk, we love it. But every year, NPR

14:14

also hosts a Tiny Desk contest, where a

14:16

ton of independent artists, like literally thousands, submit

14:18

their own video for the chance to win

14:20

their own full Tiny Desk concert. And there's

14:22

like a whole panel of judges to pick

14:25

it. Well, this year, they

14:27

added a new part to the contest where fans

14:29

get to vote on their favorite, and our good

14:31

friend, No Big Deal, won the fan favorite vote

14:33

this year. Good for him.

14:36

Yeah, it was the first time they've ever done it. They've

14:38

done the contest for 10 years, but this was the first

14:40

fan favorite vote. And, you know, we can't

14:42

think of anyone better. He had submitted a performance

14:44

of his song, Go With the

14:46

Ghost, which we're going to play right here. All

14:55

of that stuff got cut like very, all

14:57

my wife and therapy, I be ferny. We

15:00

show people the purity of sincerity,

15:02

yeah. Even

15:04

burning incense at 9am. Out

15:08

the pine water with the vitamins.

15:11

Really got a war rating inside of

15:13

him. Hey, but

15:15

the pain won't go away. Pain

15:18

in my defense to fight my

15:20

end for me. And I had

15:23

to sit with my inequities. All

15:26

the stuff that I was just so

15:28

clear to read. To really go, you

15:30

gotta give it to the folks. Where

15:33

could I go? Let me out in the

15:35

cold. Open

15:40

the door. I had to go with the cold.

15:47

So does that mean

15:50

he gets to perform on the actual Tiny Desk?

15:53

So this doesn't mean he

15:55

hasn't won the whole contest. That's actually still

15:57

going on. This just means he

15:59

won some fan favorite vote, which is like a really

16:01

big honor that out of thousands

16:04

of submissions and thousands of votes, he

16:06

was selected as the best one between fans. Like

16:08

7,000, right? 7,000 fans submitted

16:11

and he was the one that fans

16:14

went online, went through and voted for

16:16

number one. But

16:18

yeah, the contest is still going on. Judges are picking

16:21

from 45 finalists and Dylan is one of

16:24

them. In my personal opinion, I don't

16:26

know if he's going to win just since

16:28

he already won the fan favorite vote. But

16:31

I mean, there's still a chance. Like when... Like they'd

16:33

want to show more range, maybe do like an indie

16:35

band or something for them. Yeah, that makes sense. Yeah.

16:38

So the winner overall headlines

16:40

the NPR summer tour, the

16:43

Tiny Desk Summer Tour, gets

16:46

their own session, all this other stuff. But I got

16:48

to think him being the fan vote, because they do

16:50

this tour, there's like five or 10 of the best

16:53

bands, you know, tour theaters around the country. I

16:56

got to think with him winning the fan vote, he'll at least

16:58

be invited to the tour. Here's

17:00

the thing, I don't think the tour

17:02

should take place at theaters and venues.

17:04

I think it should be at like

17:06

offices across the country. Because

17:08

otherwise, it's not a tiny desk tour.

17:10

Sorry, it's just a concert tour with

17:12

bands that happen to play this one,

17:14

you know, kind of little thing. But

17:17

what if on the stage of the

17:19

theater, they set up a cube farm

17:21

and they actually perform from the

17:23

cubicles? Well, it's not about performing from it.

17:25

It's about watching from it. So you'd have

17:27

to have the audience, it would have to

17:29

be one large cube farm every venue in

17:31

order to capture the spirit like the whole

17:33

floor, they take all the seats out, and

17:35

they put the cube farm in the floor.

17:37

And they're like some people are jammed in

17:39

the little conference room in the corner, you

17:41

know, they got like the little water, you

17:43

know, things. That's the only way to

17:45

make this fair. I think they just ran out office

17:47

spaces after hours across the country to do the tour.

17:50

That seems like the spirit of the thing. That's

17:53

hilarious. That's awesome. Good for no big

17:55

deal. I thought it was funny when they posted

17:57

the announcement of the win. they

18:01

didn't quite understand him as an

18:03

artist. And they said that the

18:05

band's name, cause he has a full life band

18:07

behind him. The band's

18:09

name is no big deal. The lead singer's

18:11

name is Dylan. The bassist is so and

18:13

so, the keyboard is so. And it was

18:15

like, ah, no, he's solo artist anyway. He

18:17

is no big deal, yeah. But they loved

18:20

it. I mean, Tiny

18:22

Desk producer was talking about it, one of

18:24

the judges was talking about how amazing he

18:26

was. So anyway, good for

18:28

him. Yeah, so we're happy for him. All

18:31

right, moving on to the next thing. You guys

18:33

may have saw this week that Kansas

18:36

City Chiefs kicker Harrison Bucker gave

18:38

a very interesting commencement speech. What

18:40

was his last name? Bucker,

18:42

very unfortunate last name. But

18:45

he gave a commencement speech at a

18:47

small Catholic college where he

18:50

told college graduating women that they

18:52

should look forward to being homemakers one

18:54

day. He talked about how, you

18:56

know, even though they've made this big accomplishment that

18:59

they've been lied to, and that one day they're

19:01

gonna be wives and mothers, and

19:03

that is something that they are going to

19:05

be even more excited about. No

19:09

surprise, this caused a huge backlash online. A

19:11

lot of women, and Solomon.

19:16

He's this commencement speaker at a

19:18

university, and on stage,

19:20

as the commencement speech said,

19:23

to the women who are graduating,

19:27

you've been lied to, you're focusing on the

19:29

wrong things, you need to be a homemaker.

19:32

How did they not cut his mic off? That

19:36

is the question, because people are wondering,

19:38

did you not have to run this

19:40

by someone? Although I did- Totally discredited

19:42

what they've just done for four years,

19:44

and then discredited the institution. That's crazy.

19:47

I did see a clip going around, I need to

19:50

fact check on this, but apparently he's given a similar

19:53

speech to this before at another college. This

19:56

is just kind of his thing, is

19:58

he's really... big on pushing

20:01

women to be homemakers? I have

20:04

beyond the problematic nature

20:06

of the commencement speech. The

20:09

whole idea of a commencement speech is

20:11

that, I mean,

20:13

listen, he's a

20:15

known figure in my household because my family

20:17

watches a lot of cheese. My daughter calls

20:19

him Harrison Buttkicker. That's literally what

20:21

she thought when we watched the cheese on Sunday.

20:28

Maybe we should just rethink the whole commencement

20:30

speaker thing. It's one thing

20:32

if it's a diplomat or some scientist

20:34

or someone who has educational sort of

20:39

like, bona fia days. Like, oh,

20:41

I can see why this person is being

20:43

selected to talk at an institution of higher

20:45

learning. But every once in a

20:47

while it would be like an NFL kicker.

20:51

Or like, mine, when I graduated, our

20:54

commencement speaker was Creflo Dollar. I

21:01

can only imagine the words of wisdom. It's

21:03

like, what? Yeah,

21:05

that's the thing. It's like, I'm not saying

21:08

you have to be an educator, but there

21:10

should be a reason beyond you

21:12

have some notoriety for something that

21:14

has nothing to do with higher

21:16

education. Just

21:18

because you can kick a football really well doesn't

21:21

necessarily mean you are

21:24

qualified to give life advice to

21:27

a graduating room of college

21:29

students. Yeah,

21:32

like we're talking about, this received a lot of

21:34

backlash online. But what's

21:36

really interesting is that this whole speech kind

21:39

of ties into a recent study that I

21:41

read on Fortune about a surprising

21:43

number of Gen Z and millennial women are really

21:46

going against what he said in the speech because they

21:48

have a goal of becoming a dink, which

21:50

is dual income, no kids, couple. What do you

21:53

mean? Like, there's a growth in the people

21:55

who are saying this is their ultimate

21:57

life goal, like it's going up in

21:59

numbers? What's going on? Yes.

22:01

Yeah, yeah. It's a growing trend. But

22:05

most recent reports say 45% of millennial women and 41%

22:07

of Gen Z women don't want to follow

22:11

these, quote unquote, traditional societal

22:13

timelines of getting married, buying a home

22:16

and having kids. You

22:18

know, they do say that they want to

22:20

get married, but children is not like a

22:22

part of their plan. And

22:24

they, because they've just spent four years working

22:26

towards a degree, they actually want to use

22:28

that degree and have a career

22:30

and stay in this business. And

22:34

so it's just really interesting that we're kind

22:36

of at a weird time in society where things

22:39

are changing, but they've been changing for a while,

22:41

but I think people are trying to

22:43

push back from it. And

22:45

so I think this conversation about moving

22:48

forward with this rise of the

22:50

dinks with people also trying to say like,

22:52

no, we should push against that. I think we're going to see

22:54

a lot more of that tension moving forward. I

22:57

think they should just play in response, like

22:59

the speech from the Barbie movie, like, you

23:01

know, you can be the doctor. You know,

23:03

there is like, you know, that was like

23:05

the whole theme of that movie, right? It's

23:07

like, not just I felt like it

23:10

cut down both general lines, actually. It's

23:12

like, there is no right way to do

23:15

your life. Like for some people, there is

23:17

a path where, you know, maybe they

23:19

are, you know, kind of single minded and what

23:21

they feel like is they're calling their career for

23:23

some people, you know, they do want

23:25

to kind of make, you know, say no with

23:27

their family, their primary thing that doesn't, you

23:30

know, make one doesn't

23:32

disqualify the other. Like people are

23:34

different, you know, I, I,

23:36

why, why would there be a rise in

23:39

the aspiration to be dual

23:41

income, no kids? Like I'm, I mean, I'm

23:43

remembering the eighties and nineties.

23:45

I mean, obviously starting

23:47

to go back to sixties, seventies, the feminism movement

23:49

saying, hey, equal pay, I can be a career,

23:51

but I can be a boss or whatever. And

23:53

then in the eighties, nineties, like career

23:56

focus became normalized and

23:59

like, I'm just. So it's

24:01

not the career thing that catches my

24:03

attention. It's, my mom's a CFO. I mean,

24:05

like, you know, like I'm used to it. But

24:07

the no kids thing, that's interesting. That it's like,

24:09

that's actually part of the aspiration

24:11

now is to just be

24:14

affluent and free, you know? Yeah, which

24:17

the report did look into kind of what

24:19

is leading that. And a

24:21

big portion of it is women who

24:23

want to have careers and it is-

24:26

And they think they can't do both. Yeah,

24:29

which there are, I mean, but kind

24:31

of the reasoning behind that is because it's so expensive

24:33

to have kids right now. Like it's expensive, like, I'm

24:36

technically a sink, single income, no kids. And

24:39

like, I am like

24:41

doing fine, providing for myself. I can't

24:43

imagine like having to have a kid.

24:45

Like that would be so much

24:47

like, I just, my finances would be

24:49

thrown off by that. And so that

24:51

is absolutely not a goal of mine right now

24:53

because a lot of things we need

24:56

to change in order for that to happen. And I think that's

24:58

the same with stinks where everything has become

25:00

so much more expensive, even just for themselves,

25:02

that adding a kid, which everyone

25:04

knows is, while kids bring a

25:06

lot of joy, also bring in

25:08

a lot of financial issues that we have to

25:10

consider. I think that that's causing

25:13

a lot of people to just kind of say, I don't

25:15

want a kid because like, that's

25:17

just a financial stress that I don't think I can handle.

25:20

And so they're trying to work around that. It's

25:22

interesting that as Gen Z and millennial, younger millennials

25:25

saying this, I'm curious how they'll feel further

25:28

in their career. If they're 10 years into their career

25:30

or whatever, it's like, I wonder if they're gonna want

25:32

other things down the road, who knows? Yeah, because most

25:35

people I know that have kids also feel

25:37

like I can barely afford this. Like you

25:39

get, you know what I mean? Like, that's

25:41

not isolated to, I feel like, I

25:46

know economic conditions kind of ebb and flow

25:48

and, but at

25:50

the same time, I don't feel

25:52

like that feeling is particularly isolated

25:54

to the young

25:56

generation. Like I said, I feel like even

25:59

people I know, know that have kids are like, this

26:02

is super expensive. We can barely afford, you

26:04

know, the everything that comes along

26:06

with it, you know. All right. Yeah.

26:10

Last thing, super quick. You know, we

26:12

always love when face conversations show up

26:14

in unexpected places and last week, one

26:16

showed up on a Theo Vaughn podcast.

26:19

Now, for those who don't know, Theo Vaughn

26:21

is a comedian who is very funny, but

26:23

is not someone I would consider to be

26:26

a clean comedian. So if you look into

26:28

him, you know, be advised. Anyways,

26:31

he recently had

26:33

a viral Twitch streamer named Sketch on

26:35

his podcast. Sketch is a young streamer

26:37

who's blown up online recently for just

26:39

going super viral for covering sports. And

26:41

he's been embraced by a lot of

26:44

like athletes and sports commentators. And

26:47

so Theo brought him on his podcast to hear more about

26:49

his story and like how he's handling his newfound fame. And

26:52

Sketch had like a really surprising and humble response

26:54

to it. And I just want to hear what

26:56

you had, what he had to say. Somebody that is

26:58

like unique, you know, I think people think

27:00

that that's because everybody

27:04

feels, sometimes people feel unique and

27:07

it's like not a cool unique.

27:09

It's like, I feel unique, but

27:11

they'll misrepresent it to themselves. Like I feel like

27:13

something isn't, I'm not the same as everybody else.

27:15

But instead of thinking, oh, I'm unique, they think,

27:18

oh, I'm not the same as I'm not, I'm

27:20

almost different or I'm

27:22

less than, you know, but you just

27:24

are like, oh, I'm unique. This is

27:26

who I am. And then to see

27:28

how much everybody is really interested in,

27:30

like, really how

27:34

much that brings warmth to people.

27:36

It's pretty, that's awesome. That's

27:38

like kind of the thing that I think

27:40

we want to see. Yeah, because

27:43

I just wanted to, when I started, I

27:46

just wanted to take, I had like small

27:48

ticks or whatever I do, but this is my fingers when I'm excited

27:50

or whatever. But it was more of like

27:53

taking off the barriers and that's where the hand motions was

27:55

like, like it was like getting

27:57

that energy out and like letting it, letting

27:59

it fly. But. There was a time last year and I

28:01

just like, had a prayer where

28:03

I was like, I want to be happy, I

28:05

want to travel, and I want to meet people.

28:07

And God answered me like crazy, like, really? Yeah.

28:10

Wow. And you really were praying that?

28:12

Yeah. No, he humbled me for

28:14

sure. Wow, man. That's

28:17

powerful, huh? Yeah, no. Power and prayer.

28:21

Yeah, I believe that too, man. 100%. Yeah,

28:25

thanks for saying that. It's important. And

28:27

you were to pray, you were thinking, this is my

28:29

prayer, this is what I would like. Yeah, I didn't

28:31

know it was streaming. Streaming

28:34

came out of randomness. That wasn't like

28:37

directly after. I just remember that prayer was like,

28:40

that was like my turning point. Yeah.

28:43

It's like, put your eyes on the Lord.

28:46

Yeah. Hey, I'm looking for the Lord. I

28:48

always am, you know? And

28:51

I'll say, I'm looking for the Lord and somebody told

28:53

me, hey, the Lord ain't lost. True

28:56

that, true that, brother. Follow the light,

28:58

follow the light. I

29:01

know. Yeah. That's such a good

29:03

statement, man. I

29:05

feel like there's a lot of

29:07

unexpected conversations that happen on

29:10

some long-form podcasts, especially with

29:12

comedians. I'm not sitting

29:14

here like it's like a Theo Von Stan

29:16

or anything, but like particularly

29:19

comedians who have like openly

29:21

talked about struggles with substance

29:24

abuse or sobriety. It

29:26

sort of has brought a lot of

29:28

people to places of self-reflection and

29:31

given them the capacity. You

29:33

know, I don't know particularly Theo Von has

29:36

done like AA, but he has talked about sobriety

29:38

and substance abuse and things like that. But

29:42

there are a lot of comedians who have

29:44

committed themselves to the AA process, which a

29:47

big part of that is opening yourself up

29:49

to a higher

29:52

power and the idea

29:54

of prayer. I mean, even years

29:56

before – and I know obviously he's gone

29:58

through a lot of controversy. Brand

30:03

had his kind of recent public

30:05

conversion, he talked to us in

30:07

the magazine about the language that

30:09

he was first discovering faith in

30:11

was the language of AA. And,

30:14

you know, acknowledging, hey, I'm broke, something

30:16

about me needs to be fixed, and

30:18

I need to learn lean on a

30:20

higher power in order to have it

30:22

fixed, you know, and I know Theo

30:24

Vaughn has kind of talked in similar

30:26

ways, or Mark Maron is another example,

30:28

where, you know, they've kind of

30:30

gravitated towards these long form conversations that often

30:33

go in directions that

30:36

aren't just comedy, that really,

30:38

you know, allow

30:40

people to express ideas that you

30:43

might not just hear kind of

30:45

casually on, you know, Twitch or,

30:47

you know, some of the other platforms

30:50

that might be just a little bit more fun, you

30:52

know, at the end of that clip, like, I've been

30:54

thinking about something Theo Vaughn said, where he's,

30:57

he's said that he's told someone before I'm

30:59

looking for the Lord and they responded, well,

31:02

the Lord ain't lost. And I

31:04

keep thinking about that, like, that's a whole

31:06

sermon right there. Like, there's, like, there's so

31:08

much like depth to that little statement that

31:10

he's kind of saying as a joke. But

31:12

yeah, I love when there's like this surprise,

31:15

serious conversation from these like very funny comedians

31:17

that you don't expect. And Jesse,

31:19

you mentioned Russell Brand, you know, we reported on

31:21

a few weeks ago when he got baptized and

31:23

stuff. And as you and I

31:25

know, and many people do, like he's, he's

31:28

been on a journey of spirituality, and he's

31:30

adopted a wide range of

31:32

spiritual practices. So when we, you know, got word

31:34

that he was doing baptism,

31:36

we're kind of thinking, all right,

31:38

is he's just trying on another hat, another spiritual hat. Yeah,

31:40

you know what I mean? I

31:42

saw about a week later, he posted

31:45

on his next podcast episode. He's

31:48

like, well, I've been a Christian for a

31:51

week now. And here's how

31:53

it's going. And he like started talking about it.

31:55

And I was like, Oh, my goodness, this totally

31:57

reframed it for me. The

31:59

baptism that he has publicly been talking

32:01

about was a salvation

32:03

conversion experience for him spiritually.

32:07

And what was interesting about what he did on this podcast

32:09

that we talked about how his first week as a Christian

32:11

has gone, and he had posted some

32:13

different things, and he posted

32:15

something with tarot cards. And

32:18

in the comments, like Christians

32:20

were saying, Hey, hey, hey, hey, that's out of

32:23

bounds. That's not, you know,

32:25

something else. And so he said on this one

32:27

week follow up, he's like, Hey, I just want

32:29

to thank my new faith community, my new Christian,

32:31

you know, for the feedback,

32:34

for the guidance, for the correction. I

32:36

didn't know, like, I mean, he's like,

32:38

I've tried everything and I need to

32:40

actually learn what's

32:42

of God and what's not. And I appreciate

32:45

my Christian brothers and sisters helping guide me

32:47

in my journey. Now that I'm a weekend

32:49

and I'm just starting out, I'm the babyist,

32:51

the baby Christians. He was talking with such

32:53

a humility and openness. I

32:55

was really surprised. It sounded different than just Russell

32:57

Brand, like trying to like feel something. You know

33:00

what I mean? It was like, well, it seems

33:02

like a genuine conversion that he went through. You

33:04

know, who has taken

33:06

him under his mentorship

33:08

is fellow countrymen, Bear

33:11

Grylls, actually. No way, Mr. Alpha

33:13

course is openly, you know, kind

33:15

of mentoring him, you know, kind

33:17

of behind the

33:21

scenes, one on one. I mean,

33:23

he really is a champion and an

33:26

advocate for the Alpha course, which

33:28

comes out of Holy Trinity, Brompton.

33:30

It's a, your church might have

33:32

done it. It's a spiritual formation,

33:34

foundational foundations of the faith type

33:36

course. So that's Bear Grylls' background

33:38

is like, he's Mr. Alpha course.

33:40

So if that's who's mentoring Russell,

33:42

he's getting some good foundational teaching

33:44

right now. That's awesome.

33:47

Yeah. But, you know, but to your

33:49

point, like a lot of those community, I remember

33:51

even when we talked to Mark Marin back in

33:53

the day too, you know, I remember talking to

33:55

the writer after you know, he visited Mark Marin's

33:57

garage and Mark Marin knew the context of the

33:59

context. conversation why we wanted to

34:01

talk to them. And Mark Baron, at

34:03

the time was a pretty avowed, if

34:06

not atheist, certainly agnostic, but

34:10

him kind of being very open like, man, I

34:12

am jealous of what people who go to church

34:14

every Sunday have. He's like, you go to a

34:17

place where people care about you and share your

34:19

values and want to kind of raise your family

34:21

together. He's like, what could be possibly

34:23

better than that? You know what I mean?

34:26

Where I do feel like there's something about the

34:28

medium that these guys have,

34:30

and I say guys, guys and girls,

34:32

like, you know, in podcasting, have welcomed

34:34

people to come sit at a table

34:36

with them, and just talk in

34:38

a very gracious open minded way that has

34:41

led to conversations that,

34:43

you know, whether it's Russell Brandon, talking

34:45

with people of faith and engaging with

34:47

a new community, or Theo Von, you

34:49

know, it's, I that's

34:52

one of my favorite things about this medium is

34:54

it's literally kind of sharing time

34:57

talking to people with no real

34:59

agenda, which has led to

35:01

a lot of interesting, not just conversations, but

35:03

to your point, Cameron, like spiritual

35:06

transformations, you know, put

35:09

the period on the end of this sentence. We

35:11

were so intrigued by this Theo Von sketch

35:13

podcast conversation, the Russell Brand recent ones and

35:16

the other ones you're alluding to Jesse, we

35:19

actually compiled on the website over at relative

35:21

magazine.com. The five kind

35:24

of the most remarkable fate, unexpected

35:26

faith conversations that have happened on

35:28

these like mainstream podcasts in recent

35:30

years. So go check that out. If

35:32

you're interested, we have links to the episodes and stuff. It's

35:34

really great. All right, well,

35:36

that will do it for relevant buzz. Make sure

35:39

to check out relevant magazine.com every weekday where we

35:41

are covering the intersection of faith

35:43

culture and everything in between. Thanks, Emily.

35:46

All right, stay tuned up next. We have

35:48

a conversation an unreleased conversation with Tim

35:50

Keller. The

36:14

lemon twigs, the song is Peppermint Roses. Today's

36:20

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36:22

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$80 with code SPACE80 at

37:43

talkspace.com. Well,

37:46

we have a very special guest segment

37:48

today. One of our faith

37:50

heroes, Tim Keller, passed away one year ago

37:52

this weekend on May 19, He

37:56

was an incredible faith leader, author, pastor

37:58

in New York City. who

38:00

spent decades pouring into the church. About

38:03

six months before he passed away in November of

38:05

2022, he released his final

38:07

book titled Forgive. Why

38:09

should I and how can I? We talked

38:12

to him at that time about the book

38:14

and how to seek forgiveness with friends and

38:16

family who have heard us. We've shared that

38:18

conversation on this podcast, on our site and

38:20

the digital magazine, but we actually have more

38:22

of that conversation you haven't heard yet. So

38:24

today, to remember Tim Keller's

38:26

legacy and wisdom, we want to share

38:28

our final interview with him. In

38:31

this conversation, Tim spoke directly about how

38:33

to address church hurt, including how to

38:35

seek forgiveness and justice with an institution

38:37

that may have left you feeling lost

38:40

and mistreated. It's a timely discussion that

38:42

sums up why he was an essential faith leader

38:44

in our lives. Here's our final

38:47

conversation with the one and only Tim Keller.

38:57

So something that a lot of people in

38:59

my generation specifically talk about is being

39:02

hurt by an institution or specifically I'm

39:04

thinking about a church, you

39:06

know, maybe with something a pastor taught in a

39:08

sermon or something a leader said to them, but

39:10

they have this frustration and a lot of them

39:13

don't want to hold on to it, but they don't know

39:15

what to do with that hurt. So I

39:17

would love to know how do we go about forgiving

39:19

a church or just some

39:21

group that has hurt us? Well,

39:25

okay, that's great Emily.

39:27

I mean, there's forgiving

39:30

a group or you might say

39:32

a corporate forgiveness for your forgiving

39:34

group. That can be, there's a

39:36

lot of, you mentioned the church and I'll get to

39:38

that in one second. Miroslav Volf

39:40

wrote a book some years

39:42

ago called Exclusion and Embrace. Miroslav Volf is

39:45

a theologian at

39:47

Yale, but he's Croatian. And

39:50

back in the early nineties, he wrote

39:52

that book about forgiveness, but he was

39:54

thinking about what was happening in the

39:56

former Yugoslavia where, you know,

39:59

in Bosnia, Bosnia, Herzegov, and Croatia,

40:01

the Serbians were coming and they were

40:04

just wiping people out, they had no

40:07

cleansing. And the real question is, how

40:09

do I as a curlation not hate

40:12

every Serbian? And

40:15

so let me just say that book is a, it's

40:17

kind of an academic book. It's not, it's

40:20

nowhere near as easy to read as my

40:22

forgiveness book. I'm a pastor and

40:24

he's a theologian and it was a

40:26

little, it's much more challenging. And

40:29

yet in there he does a, he

40:31

does a really good

40:33

work. You know the term exclusion and

40:35

embrace, what he's saying is an embrace

40:38

is a way of opening your arms

40:40

to somebody, but then at the same

40:42

time being open to them, even though

40:45

they may not change, they may not, they may

40:47

not embrace you back, but there's

40:49

a way of extending your arms. So he was trying

40:51

to talk about how as a

40:53

curation, he had to forgive the

40:56

Serbians, at least give them an opportunity

40:58

to change, give them an opportunity to

41:01

reach out to him. So it's pretty,

41:03

it was pretty, it was a great book and

41:06

pretty difficult to read in many

41:08

ways. I think a lot of African

41:10

Americans were non-white people in general can be

41:12

feeling the same way about white people. Now

41:15

you brought up the other issue, which is

41:20

I know these people have been hurt by the church and

41:22

I've seen them respond negatively to me because not

41:25

that they don't even know me, but I'm a

41:27

pastor and I represent the church. You

41:29

can never force somebody to forgive. What you

41:31

ought to do is you want to try

41:33

to explain that what we've

41:35

already talked about. In fact, you've gotten some great

41:38

stuff out of me here is

41:40

that you need to forgive

41:42

the people who have wronged you so that

41:44

you don't let them control you the rest

41:46

of your life. Some

41:49

years ago, I remember trying to get a

41:52

guy who lived right

41:54

down the street from the Hap from our church

41:56

in Virginia to let

41:58

his kids come to Bible school. And

42:02

so we went there, we knocked on the door and we

42:04

said, hey, you know, we're having vacation Bible school, you're happy

42:06

to come by and pick up the kids and

42:09

take him to vacation Bible school on, you know,

42:11

every morning at nine and bring him back at

42:13

12. It was right down the block. And

42:16

he said, no, he said, my father

42:19

made me go to church, forced

42:21

me to go to church and it was a terrible church

42:23

and I'm never gonna let any of my children go to

42:25

church. I'm thinking, okay,

42:27

I didn't say this to him, but I was thinking,

42:30

you know, what you're because

42:32

you haven't forgiven your father or that

42:34

church. Here you are 30 years later,

42:37

being completely controlled by them. In other

42:39

words, you're not being, you're not

42:41

letting your children do this or

42:43

that because that's what happened to

42:46

you, you're under their control. And

42:48

I think the thing to say is you do need

42:50

to forgive the people who have wronged you, but I

42:53

don't think we have any right. You're

42:55

right. What I've seen now, this is in

42:57

the book, Emily, is

43:00

I've seen women who are abused in the

43:02

church, sometimes sexually,

43:04

but very often more

43:06

spiritually, they're abused in the church. And

43:09

then when the abuser says, oh, I'm sorry,

43:11

then everybody says, oh, you have to forgive

43:13

him. And

43:15

what that does is it silences her

43:18

and he stays right in power.

43:20

And that is not biblical forgiveness.

43:22

So I've tried to show you

43:24

forgiveness and seeking justice go together.

43:27

But what a lot of people have done in

43:29

the churches, they've used forgiveness to silence victims. They

43:32

use the idea forgiveness as I was victims. And

43:35

if you felt like that, then you leave the church

43:38

and you feel like me, I just can never trust

43:40

the church again. The only thing I would want to

43:42

say to them is you do still have to forgive

43:44

internally so that you don't get controlled by

43:46

them for the rest of your life. And

43:49

then secondly, trying to find a church that's

43:51

not going to, you know,

43:53

all churches will not do that. So try to find a

43:55

church that is not going to abuse

43:58

you. That's about all I can say. But

44:00

it's very similar if you had

44:02

a bad experience with

44:05

doctors, that doesn't mean that

44:07

you should never go see a doctor again because

44:09

you probably need a doctor. So

44:13

in the same thing as you can have a bad experience with

44:15

a church, I think you still

44:17

need to find a church somewhere and not

44:19

let it just push you away completely. Speaking

44:23

as someone who is still in the church and loves the church,

44:25

how can I be there for someone who is dealing

44:27

with that hurt without making things

44:29

sort of worse for them? Yeah,

44:32

Emily, and I think the thing to do would be at

44:36

least invite them into fellowship with you. In

44:39

other words, if they are not willing to pick up and

44:41

go to a church, big institution, and

44:43

try to bring them into informal fellowship,

44:45

maybe you have a Bible study. What

44:48

if you have, especially by the way,

44:51

a same-sex Bible study very often happens.

44:53

Women who have been hurt are out

44:55

of the church completely. Kathy has seen

44:57

this. Very often, one of the ways

44:59

they can get back into it is

45:01

they will come to a women's Bible

45:03

study or a women's group that is

45:06

largely Christian but is also very, very

45:08

understanding of whoever is there, really listens

45:10

to them. And that's the

45:12

best way back in very often. On

45:19

the flip side, say I'm the one who

45:21

caused someone to hurt, whether it was intentional

45:23

or unintentional. How do I

45:25

go about asking forgiveness for someone that I

45:27

have heard it wrong? I

45:29

think to start with, here's two

45:32

things. One is when you've

45:34

heard somebody else, there's almost always, there's always

45:36

been a mixture. In other words, if you've

45:38

done something wrong, usually the other

45:40

person has contributed to it as well. And

45:43

then what you want to do is, it might be, maybe

45:46

60% of the problem was them, but

45:50

only 40% was you, at least in your

45:52

mind. Now, the trouble is the other person probably thinks it's

45:54

60, 40, the other direction. But what

45:56

you do is you go and

45:58

you admit your part. You do not say,

46:00

yeah, but you did this. You know, you just, yeah,

46:03

even if it's only 20% your fault, you

46:05

admit the 20% and you're quiet.

46:09

So I feel like I did this wrong. And

46:12

then you actually ask, do

46:15

you agree or have I missed something?

46:18

Let them fill in what else? In other

46:20

words, if you say a hybrid, basically you don't have

46:22

to use the word repent, but basically you're saying I

46:24

repent for this. I think I really wronged you. Do

46:28

you see it that way too? Would you add anything there?

46:30

And sometimes the person will say, well, I think you also

46:32

did this and this and this. You

46:35

try to confess and admit and repent for

46:37

everything that you honestly can. The

46:39

second thing you do is say, but here's

46:42

a concrete way in which I'm going to

46:44

try to change. I'm not just asking your

46:46

forgiveness, but you do say

46:48

that I repent. I ask you forgiveness, but then you

46:50

say, and here's, here's the change I'm going to make

46:53

so that I don't do this again. And

46:55

that's it. I think, in

46:57

other words, you go talk without excusing

46:59

yourself without blaming people for other, you

47:02

know, just the part that's

47:04

your responsibility, you admit you're open to

47:06

them adding to it. And then

47:08

you admit that then you ask for

47:10

forgiveness and you say, here's the things I'm going to

47:13

try to do to change that. So this doesn't happen

47:15

again. That's what I would call

47:17

how you ask for forgiveness. Well,

47:25

we've been talking about seeking forgiveness and

47:27

extending forgiveness, but I do have one

47:29

final question. Is there ever a

47:31

time where we don't have to pursue forgiveness?

47:34

I think Jesus said no. If you

47:36

use the word extend, meaning, you know,

47:38

when Jesus was saying 70 times seven,

47:41

you know, those places where when

47:43

Peter says, do we have to forgive 77

47:45

times and Jesus 70 times

47:49

seven, most commentators think

47:51

that Jesus saying, no, you always

47:53

have to do it. Most

47:56

people do not think Jesus is saying you got 490. You

48:00

have to do it 490 times in the 491st time you don't have to do it. Almost

48:04

nobody thinks he's saying that. It's

48:07

a metaphor to say no, you must always extend

48:10

it. But don't forget what we just said

48:12

and that is forgiving

48:15

internally where you let go of the anger

48:17

and you let go of the desire for

48:19

vengeance is one thing. But

48:22

actually reconciling with somebody we have a relationship that is

48:24

up to them. And

48:28

therefore extending forgiveness means you keep

48:30

the door open if they're willing to change

48:33

but you do not let them abuse you. So

48:37

if there's a sense in which yes, I

48:39

do think there is no place

48:41

where you don't

48:45

extend forgiveness. If you're talking about the inside.

48:49

But by the way, this book

48:51

by a friend, two friends of mine, Dan Allender

48:53

and Trevor Longman some years ago

48:55

wrote a book called Bull of Love. Tremper

48:58

is an Old Testament biblical studies

49:02

professor and Dan was a

49:04

psychologist. He's a counselor and

49:07

they said they talked about three

49:09

kinds of people. He

49:12

says they talked about evil people,

49:16

an evil person, a fool and

49:18

a regular sinner. An evil

49:20

person was somebody who's very

49:23

cruel and absolutely knows what

49:25

they're doing. They're

49:27

being cruel and they're completely deliberate, completely conscious

49:29

of it. They're trying to wreak

49:31

havoc. They're angry, they're bitter

49:33

and they're trying to destroy people and destroy things and

49:36

they know exactly what they're doing. A

49:38

fool is somebody who's very destructive

49:40

but kind of oblivious. They're

49:43

proud or they're self-centered and they're kind of

49:45

like they don't seem to realize they

49:49

feel like I'm okay and everybody else is wrong

49:52

but they're just wreaking havoc everywhere but they

49:54

don't seem to realize how bad they are

49:57

and they call them a fool and a

49:59

regular sinner is everybody. else, because we're all

50:01

sinned. And they did say

50:03

that you have to put up more

50:05

barriers around

50:08

the fool and the evil person. But

50:10

even if you forgive them, you have

50:12

to be extraordinarily clear that unless they

50:15

make major changes, that there is not

50:17

going to be reconciliation. So

50:20

in that sense, yes, do you always

50:22

have to extend forgiveness inside you? I

50:25

think with most people who are really evil,

50:27

etc., you say, if I see a change

50:29

in you, absolutely, I'd be interested

50:31

in talking about a relationship. I don't. And I'm

50:33

not going to make it easy for you to

50:35

get to me. I'm not going to

50:37

make it easy for you at all to sin against me. And

50:40

so in those cases, you in many ways,

50:42

you do withdraw, and you should because you

50:44

just don't want to become you don't want

50:47

to be grist for their evil meal. That

51:00

was Tim Keller. If you want to hear more of

51:02

that conversation, you can go find

51:04

it at relevantmags.com or get his

51:06

final book, Forgive, Why Should I

51:08

and How Can I? All right,

51:10

stay tuned. Up next, it's

51:12

your feedback. Oh,

51:42

yeah. The

51:49

song is spend time flashback

51:52

great, great artists there. They

51:54

have bazan Doing good. Talk

51:57

About well, and talk about like.

52:00

They've journeys that you know his

52:02

has played out over the course

52:04

of many albums of of his

52:06

wrestling. With. Our I don't know

52:09

exactly where he stands right now, but I know

52:11

over the years he's then. Very.

52:13

On I used For last four years. he's

52:15

been mentoring Russell Brand. I heard on paragraphs

52:18

east and season wasn't in the world or

52:20

approvals. we are women and isn't known what.

52:22

I'm in a wellness fuse mentoring Bill. Girls

52:24

that gonna, it's gonna last four years. it's

52:27

my job. Live by them. A nice front

52:29

for the last four years. Yeah, he has

52:31

been actually doing him a members while thing

52:33

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53:36

Right is time for your feedback. Last

53:38

week we ask you, why retail my

53:40

life hacks? I forget this. At.

53:42

The beginning of the cell. Jesse's. Guy

53:45

was starting to talk about like the interesting

53:47

like sleep hack then the like ice. The.

53:50

Ice bath tags on the human

53:52

the how the human element that

53:55

was which I don't I I

53:57

I see any of these new

53:59

fangled health of. Revelations.

54:02

I'm very skeptical of and just eat junk

54:05

food as as an anecdote to them. anyway

54:07

walk that's right because all the all the

54:09

if you go to nursing home, all the

54:11

healthy ninety eight year olds or drink and

54:14

Dr. Pepper and eating Cheetos and I am

54:16

not worried about a thing that's right, exactly

54:18

sorry ah so we ask you, what's the

54:21

weirdest life trapped life hack that you've tried.

54:23

A you hit us up on acts, our own podcast, and

54:26

here's a few of our favorite. The

54:29

he says blinking fast for a minute to

54:31

help fall asleep at night. I'm going to

54:33

try that but I can't help but think

54:35

it is. Also, Just make is is meant

54:37

to make you look like a lunatic animals

54:39

and Knight Rider to secure significant other or

54:41

like your roommates or what are you doing

54:44

else is like that. Man, I'm not good

54:46

enough. Demon possessed that if you walked in

54:48

a sort of the bedroom and prisons lying

54:50

flat on the bed in their lives, hour

54:52

energy and our eyes are blinking crazily. That's

54:54

insane. Yeah. This is a

54:56

joke. I was lucky he didn't clarify that words

54:58

to said that they've tried it. So yeah to

55:00

come back and tell us is it did work.

55:03

Amanda said she stopped eating the banana and

55:05

milk combinations she's have with cornflakes because the

55:08

the and milk don't go well. I

55:10

don't think that's why I think users may be.

55:13

Had. like an allergic reaction or something

55:15

else not a life hack the system

55:18

but the his breath for a breakfast

55:20

and and plus banana know her find

55:22

their declined by scenery think. The.

55:24

Friend Carey says I've become a tongue scraper

55:26

after marrying a dentist. To be honest, I'm

55:28

not sure if it worse, but hearing his

55:30

horror stories is enough to keep the consistent.

55:32

Now is this like brushing your tongue with

55:34

a brush Or says like a specific now

55:36

as I can actually like. Device.

55:38

Is an extreme three targets such like

55:40

help get rid of like bacteria and

55:43

i guess like other things that are

55:45

on your time to badmouth stuff every

55:47

I saw saying in our legs but

55:49

but but again I'm curious as what

55:51

What are the quote unquote a horror

55:53

stories that have resulted in from not

55:55

doing this that she leaves a lot

55:57

to you know. That. Shudder.

56:00

The video at Bethany says that

56:02

when she feels anxious to see

56:04

helps or anxiety, Y C C

56:06

smells and orange. She. Says I

56:08

know smells we're but the smell of it calms me

56:10

down. This. Is

56:12

essentially essential oils. Like. I

56:14

need this smell Lavender I need to

56:16

smell and orange. I know there's an

56:19

orange, is not toxic athletes deserve and

56:21

concentrated chemical. Also like I'd is it

56:23

I need to know, is it like

56:25

just the whole orange or like is

56:27

it kites like is it's like how

56:29

long did to smell it before it

56:31

said company. Down Like. I

56:34

will say this: I don't smell oranges because

56:36

anxiety, but I've been eating a lot of

56:38

oranges lately. I

56:40

don't know why to some in an orange kick it's my

56:42

is my easily that you and i think says. I

56:44

don't know. Maybe I'm being and maybe I'm reading

56:47

benefits and even realize and the been into think

56:49

more intensely about this, but I haven't even a

56:51

lot of words is like. To

56:53

see While there's a lot more that

56:55

came from you and it's like I'm

56:57

algo of follow us on acts our

56:59

own I guess I'm just looking to

57:01

replace against them for this week Father

57:03

for I love with I well earlier

57:06

in the so we were talking about

57:08

and see share the pigs or this

57:10

we should just randomly tweet this Emily

57:12

I'm going to randomly tweeted. Ah,

57:15

of embarrassing high school photos of me

57:17

on twitter. They rather Twitter. I guess

57:20

it'll now the to that to too

57:22

many of. My favorite is just tweeting

57:24

them with absolutely no gaps in her contacts

57:26

and like if you didn't hear that episode

57:28

or you're just throwing acts and there's is

57:31

this random picture of Emily at her church

57:33

brought to us and I didn't know you

57:35

were posting it so no, I'm scrolling twitter

57:38

and I saw. Layer

57:41

anyway the either by get you'll see if

57:43

I get to be follow islam it anyway

57:45

we're what we want to know. The weirdest

57:48

thing the most embarrassing being that your parents

57:50

have at their house. Of. You.

57:53

Know. That this reminds they are that

57:55

we're in. this is or I randomly watch.

57:57

this is a few we see else for

57:59

that. Twenty One Jump Street where Channing

58:01

Tatum goes over Jonah Hill's house. and they're

58:04

both men in their twenties. And there's like

58:06

at Jonah Hill's parents' house, there is like.

58:08

A whole like. Dresser.

58:10

That is like his pictures and metals and and

58:12

then you know and it's like it was Are

58:14

your parents have one of the a shrine to

58:17

kid who died in a car accidents. Are

58:19

still alive and know like the whole you

58:22

know every parent's I feel like there's a

58:24

lot of parents who of weird stuff like

58:26

that is ah hundred percent even if it

58:28

is left up like ugh ugh I had

58:31

a a friend one time you go down

58:33

the Cern hallway to the bathroom the the

58:35

house bathroom you down the hall in the

58:37

hall was all lined of every year of

58:40

my friends. Life Was this a photo

58:42

like and you like from chronologically like.

58:44

Grew up with my friend as you

58:46

headed toward the bathroom and they were

58:48

all like friends. Terrible. You know, School.

58:50

Photos. And. Stuff So it's. Great neural framed

58:53

huge big fancy frames. One

58:55

does. I

58:57

hit us up on X arrow vog as if

58:59

you want to send us a picture of the

59:01

thing. We we would love

59:03

it so hit us up Tell us

59:05

the most embarrassing producing that your parents

59:07

so have at their house of. Well.

59:11

Before we wrap things up, I want to. Encourage

59:14

you to go dive into the

59:16

teachings and writings a pastor Tim

59:19

Keller. He left an amazing faith

59:21

legacy for us. very wise words

59:23

to us for us to consider

59:25

and follow the book that he

59:27

wrote That this interviews Basins com

59:29

forgive my suit I and how

59:31

can I since available wherever you

59:33

get your books. Five

59:36

on that know will wrap things up on

59:38

camera strength. I'm just the hearing and only

59:40

brown we will see you on To say

59:42

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