0:05

This is

0:09

the relevant

0:15

podcast.

0:18

It's episode 1174 and it's the

0:20

relevant podcast here in Orlando. I'm

0:22

your host Cameron Strang and joining

0:24

me from Loverland, Virginia is Jesse

0:27

Carey. Hello, hello. And

0:29

Nashville, our managing editor, downtown Emily

0:31

Brown. Hey, y'all. In

0:34

LA, we missed for a couple

0:36

of episodes. You know from Social Club Misfits,

0:39

it's Marty. Howdy duty.

0:42

Closer, closer. One step closer. Hey, I'm

0:44

dead inside. Cameron, I'll

0:47

let you tell us what we have on the show today. Then

0:49

I have a question for you. It's a big show. So yeah.

0:52

Okay. There you go. Oh,

0:54

you want me to tell it for now? Okay. We have Rainn

0:56

Wilson on the show today. No. It's

0:58

more interesting than Rainn Wilson on the show today.

1:01

Have we ever had, by the way, Rainn? Cover the

1:04

magazine. Rainn Wilson was on the cover of the magazine. He's been

1:06

on the podcast two or three times. Nice.

1:09

Anyway, we have a conversation

1:11

with Carl Lents coming

1:13

up. Oh, very cool. When you guys

1:15

downloaded this episode, I'm guessing it's at

1:17

three and a half hours and you

1:19

might've been confused. That's why

1:22

a conversation with Carl is coming up. We

1:25

get into it. He's got a new podcast. Has he been

1:27

in New York since? So many questions

1:29

I have for him. He's been there all

1:31

week because he did Dateline NBC. He did

1:33

the Breakfast Club. Oh, wow. It

1:36

aired today. They were recording. Yeah. He

1:39

did the Breakfast Club with his wife and then

1:41

he's doing the relevant podcast. So that's his media

1:43

tour. Dateline, Breakfast Club, relevant podcast. That's a typical

1:45

tour. So it makes sense. All

1:48

of those, I like all of those outlets,

1:50

but the one that is, and obviously Carl's

1:52

a great speaker. He's got a good story

1:54

to tell. The confusing

1:56

one to me is Dateline. Did he witness a

1:58

murder? telling what

2:00

he saw in some grisly

2:03

suburban crime scene. Because

2:07

I thought that's what Dateline

2:09

was now, was it's just

2:11

like, it's those like, yeah,

2:14

it's those grimy true crime pods,

2:16

but with like Keith Morrison, you

2:18

know. Well, and that's where the

2:21

story took a turn that

2:23

no one saw cutting through the noise.

2:25

And then it's like, he cut her

2:28

throat right there. And it's

2:30

like, oh sick Morrison, why are you doing these

2:32

puns? Like, who is the

2:34

puns? Big puns. Yeah, and

2:36

it wouldn't think that the businessman

2:39

would take a stab at a

2:41

fortune that everyone knew he

2:43

would get. And then

2:45

it's like, no, he stabbed his business partner and

2:48

tried to take the business. He took

2:51

a shot at success with a nine

2:53

millimeter. What the heck is going on

2:55

here? Yeah. With an AK-47.

2:59

In the world. My god, Keith

3:01

Morrison, this is real people. Like, what

3:03

is your problem? But I guess, you

3:05

know, good for, you know, them branching

3:08

out in their content. They're

3:11

catching predators, they're telling you about true crime

3:13

murders, and they're talking about

3:15

Carl Lynch's journey over the last three

3:17

years. Yeah. Now, before we

3:19

get to that, we have a lot of great

3:21

content, but Cameron's wearing a

3:23

hat today for people, I don't know if they're gonna say

3:26

this. I wear a hat every day. Yeah, well, he's wearing

3:28

one right now that says, that

3:30

says, God's silliest goose. And as soon as

3:32

we signed on, Marty said, my wife recently

3:35

got me that hat as well. Here's the

3:37

problem. Did you get on Teemu as well,

3:39

Kim? I didn't get on

3:41

Teemu, I got it off TikTok shop. I

3:43

saw that on TikTok. Okay, TikTok is great

3:45

too, TikTok shop is great too. Well,

3:48

here's the problem. The hat can

3:50

only be worn by one person at a time. It's,

3:54

there's an old episode of Seinfeld where

3:57

Jerry gets his father, a world's number one

3:59

dad. And the other guy shows up in

4:01

a world summer one dad sure and they have a dispute Because

4:04

the nature of the shirt this are gonna only

4:06

be one number one there can only be one

4:10

Silliest goose by God standards

4:13

so camera Marty only one

4:15

of you By

4:18

the end of this pod who gets to wear that

4:21

yeah Text

4:23

Marty before every show like yeah

4:26

silly and then we'll just I

4:34

Actually love this act cuz it's so stupid and

4:36

wearing it in public is my greatest joy Because

4:38

awesome people like comment, but they don't know

4:40

if you're like mocking Christianity or if you're

4:43

a Christian so like yeah It's really funny.

4:45

I love it For

4:47

years and I love it. I think

4:49

it's the funniest thing in the world God So these

4:51

groups I was at a thrift store one time and

4:53

I saw a shirt that said hoof and

4:55

then under said arted And

4:57

neither of those like it

5:00

doesn't it's not even that much of

5:02

a pun because like it doesn't like

5:04

Independently you would not use hoof and

5:06

arted is not a word. It's

5:08

just like But

5:15

but but arted is like oh look at

5:17

that wall that got painted you could say

5:19

someone arted it I guess but it's not

5:21

technically a word, but I just appreciated One

5:25

that it was donated obviously But

5:27

I feel like your hat is sort

5:29

of that the religious equivalent of a

5:31

hoof arted shirt Like we just don't

5:34

know how to take it. It just

5:36

poses more questions than it

5:38

does answers You know I had I

5:40

had I've had many conversations wearing I

5:42

got a Toby New England shirt a

5:44

while back has said try Jesus. Don't

5:47

try me. This is lyric And

5:50

I've had sincere old ladies come

5:52

up to me. Yes brother try Jesus

5:54

Wait, what does don't try me mean

5:56

and I'm like so it's this

5:58

rapper and then they they just look

6:00

petrified that they didn't understand.

6:03

Anyway, yeah. So this is my

6:05

new, try Jesus, don't try

6:07

me. It is funny, like

6:09

I, now that I think about it,

6:11

there's only like one, it's a sweatshirt, but

6:13

there's only one piece of clothing I have that I've

6:15

had people come up and comment on, and it is

6:18

also about Jesus, but it's just a, so

6:21

it does say. Why

6:23

does it take it so long to get to that answer? Well.

6:27

It says, if Jesus can come back from the dead, so can

6:29

One Direction? Oh yeah. I

6:33

have had so many people come up to me

6:35

and talk about it. And I mean, even grown

6:37

men who are like, love that shirt. And I'm

6:39

like, do you know who One Direction is? Like,

6:41

it's very funny, but it is. That's amazing. It

6:43

is also a slightly religious tea

6:45

that people don't need to share their thoughts

6:48

on. Love the idea. It's,

6:50

you know, share the gospel at

6:52

all times when necessary, use words.

6:54

When, when you can use an

6:56

ironic t-shirt for a slightly,

6:59

you know, irreverent hat. By the way,

7:01

I just googled, don't worry. You can

7:03

totally buy hoof-arted shirts on Amazon. It

7:05

seems like they're- New merch just dropped.

7:07

Whoever, whoever owns the trademark on that

7:09

seems to be doing well. There's all

7:11

kinds of merch out there. Stay tuned,

7:13

up next, it's Slices. Oh,

7:15

I loved you, miss. And

7:19

you were happy when you got

7:22

sweet alone. But

7:24

I won't be late. Who's

7:27

in love with you, miss? She

7:32

knows that she falls, and you

7:34

rarely ever see just where she

7:36

goes. But she's not here standing

7:38

next to me. From what

7:40

I understand, it's somewhere so outlandish

7:42

that she don't want any see-

7:45

You're listening to Dominic Fyke. The

7:47

song is Mrs. Well,

7:50

today's show is brought to you in

7:52

part by The Grace Project, a compelling

7:54

new novel by author Kyle Bullock. The

7:56

story uncovers the details of a violent

7:58

crime tied to a small-town church. and

8:00

the four members at the center of

8:03

it all. Their lives collide as they

8:05

confront weighty issues like racial equality, political

8:07

divide, and LGBTQ inclusion through the lens

8:09

of biblical grace. The Grace Project is

8:11

perfect for individuals or small groups and

8:13

is available now on Amazon and paperback,

8:15

Kindle, or download on Audible. Okay,

8:18

it's time for Slices. What

8:23

do you have, Jesse? All right, so I

8:26

just been quite a emotional rollercoaster

8:28

of a week for me and

8:31

a lot of fans of just

8:33

American greatness, which I am. I

8:36

didn't know you were bringing this, but I

8:38

know exactly what you're bringing based on that

8:41

one sentence. As I

8:43

watched it play out over the week, I

8:45

was wondering how's Jesse doing as I saw

8:47

the headlines progress? Because we're

8:49

at a time in American culture where

8:51

us as the American

8:53

people have very few just heroes out there,

8:56

you know? We all

8:58

grew up in an era where Neil

9:00

Armstrong, Lance

9:03

Armstrong, you know, we had Kaitlin

9:05

Clark, you know, we had

9:07

Michael Jordan, but true American

9:09

greatness and dominance, you know?

9:13

And I feel like one of the last

9:16

truly dominant athletes and

9:19

this is an athlete. I'm not

9:22

gonna go on about why this

9:24

individual qualifies as an athlete,

9:26

but truly one of the

9:28

country's last most dominant athletes.

9:32

Michael Phelps. Yeah, we had, yeah.

9:35

Tom Brady. If

9:37

you put, if you put Mike, peak Michael

9:39

Phelps, peak like Michael

9:41

Lewis. Stuest era of Mark

9:43

McGuire. Yeah, yeah,

9:45

yeah. If you put

9:47

Mark McGuire and Jose Conseco,

9:50

like into like both Williams

9:52

sisters. Yeah, yeah, I'm

9:54

talking, you know, Tiger Woods. Lance

9:56

Armstrong, Tiger Woods. And

9:58

they just dominate, dominate. people of

10:01

domination. Yeah. Domination's the game right

10:03

here. I'm talking like no one

10:05

comes close. They're just beating everyone.

10:07

Right. He, he belongs to

10:09

that Pantheon. Of course. I'm talking about Joey chestnut

10:11

who every year he's, he's

10:13

one of the world's greatest competitive eaters. And every

10:16

year he wins the

10:18

Coney Island, Nathan's famous hot

10:20

dog eating contest. He

10:23

doesn't just win it. I mean, he

10:25

destroys the competition. I watch every year.

10:27

Okay. It's really fun. Go to, I

10:29

know. I never miss it. And like

10:32

he, he, it's

10:37

complete domination. No one comes close.

10:39

It's hard to like even come

10:41

up with a cool, an equivalent

10:44

from another sport. Well, well, well,

10:46

well, he started in 2007 and

10:48

he's won 16

10:51

of his 17 years and he had

10:53

a rival who was the dominant before

10:55

him and they overlapped a little bit.

10:58

Yes. Kobayashi Kobayashi.

11:00

Now Kobayashi is a

11:03

Japanese competitive

11:06

eater and you know, I've watched several

11:08

documentaries about him. The crazy thing about

11:11

Kobayashi, like Joey chestnut looks like a

11:13

guy. Hold on. There's many documentaries about

11:15

him. Yeah. He's

11:17

a legend. He's like, he's what?

11:19

Like Kobayashi. That's it. Him and,

11:22

him and Shohei Otani are like

11:24

the most popular people in Japan.

11:26

Like in terms of athletes, it's

11:28

Otani and Kobayashi props

11:31

to Otani by the way, seven

11:33

a great season. Anyway, the, he's

11:36

the best player

11:39

in major league baseball. He's the only, he

11:41

pitches and is a slugger. No one ever

11:43

does know he's like the best at both.

11:45

He's like the next Babe Ruth. He's unbelievable.

11:47

Anyway, he's the best gambler. Well, his, his

11:49

trans guy. I heard about that on the

11:52

show. Yeah. But either way,

11:54

yeah. But, but either way, yeah. Anyway,

12:00

Kobayashi hasn't been

12:02

able to compete in Nathan's famous hot

12:05

dog contest for quite a number of

12:07

years because Nathan's evidently

12:09

is pretty strict with their contracts. They

12:11

don't want these eaters to have contract

12:13

with other food brands

12:15

or even sometimes other competitive eating

12:18

outlets. And this is

12:20

a big problem because Joey Chestnut just signed

12:22

on to be the face of

12:26

impossible foods who are now making

12:28

vegan hot dogs, which, hey,

12:30

good for him, man. The guy's got to get

12:32

paid, right? I mean, I don't think there's a

12:35

ton of... He needs medical insurance. I don't think

12:37

there's a ton of sponsorship opportunities in the world

12:39

of competitive eating. Absolutely.

12:41

That's about it. But the point

12:43

I was making about Kobayashi, this guy's in

12:45

the weight room every day. Like you should

12:47

see this guy. He treats competitive eating like

12:50

athleticism. Like he eats tons of noodles to

12:52

like stretch the capacity of his stomach, but

12:54

he's also like a weight lifter and he's

12:56

jacked and like, and then Joey Chestnut doesn't

12:58

look like a competitive eater either. He looks

13:00

like a guy who works at Home Depot.

13:03

Yeah, exactly. Like real blue

13:05

collar man of the people. Either

13:09

way, because Joey Chestnut signed this deal with

13:11

impossible foods, it came out earlier this

13:14

week that he was not going to be

13:16

able to compete in this year's hot dog

13:18

contest. And I was devastated. It ruins it.

13:20

Like, who cares at this point? It's like

13:22

when Michael Jordan went to go play baseball.

13:24

It's like, well, you know what

13:26

I mean? Like he's walking away in

13:28

his prime. He's going to leave championships on

13:30

the table. Well, good news, everyone. Netflix

13:35

has stepped up to the plate and has announced that

13:37

they have, they're going to do their own competition,

13:40

not on the 4th of July, not

13:42

to compete, but on Labor Day weekend,

13:44

Chestnut versus Kobayashi, one

13:47

finished beef, unfinished beef.

13:50

Unfortunately, if a pond wasn't involved, I

13:53

wouldn't be interested, but they, they landed

13:55

that pond. That's good. And

13:57

I got to be honest. That's nightline level.

18:00

So has anybody here, have any

18:02

of you been blocked by a celebrity

18:04

on Twitter, X, Instagram, Jesse? I don't

18:07

think you have any of those things.

18:09

I feel like I saw your Instagram

18:11

account. It just has, you have a

18:13

profile picture and no posts for many

18:15

followers. Emily or Cam,

18:18

have you, you guys have been blocked by anybody?

18:21

Not to my knowledge. Not that I'm aware of, yeah. Yeah,

18:23

I mean, I've been blocked by, I mean, I feel like,

18:25

I guess, because I've been blocked by so many people, I

18:27

thought it was just normal. I mean, I've been blocked by

18:29

Desiring God. Shout out to John Pipe. But

18:32

you call these people out, you tag them, and

18:34

then they're like, oh, this is negative, we'll block

18:36

this guy, so we can't tag us anymore. I

18:38

never mean about it. Like, I think the last

18:40

time I got- I know, you just crack jokes,

18:42

it's funny. Yeah, so I think the last time

18:44

I got blocked by Desiring God was, it was

18:46

like one of the greatest questions, it was like,

18:48

right on Christmas time, like one of the greatest

18:50

questions of our generation. Find

18:53

out like what it was, like a click bait article,

18:55

and I think I quoted it, and I was like,

18:58

the answer is, was it Five Two or Find

19:00

Two, talking about the Lloyd song with Little Wayne,

19:02

where he's like, where at one point that was

19:04

like a debate, like is she Five Two or

19:07

is she Find Two? No one really knows, a

19:09

question in the lyrics. So they blocked me on

19:11

that. Elevation Worship, I don't

19:13

know what happened, I don't know how they blocked me on

19:15

that. But anyway, an

19:18

article actually- What's the name of Elevation Worship? They're friends of

19:20

the show. I had no idea, I know, I don't know.

19:22

What if they stop coming on the show because you're associated

19:24

with us now? Was it like

19:26

an all painted Furtick joke? Who

19:29

seems like a blocker to me? I think it was something

19:31

that has to do with Coldplay. I'm not 100% sure on

19:33

it. But

19:36

I remember looking at

19:38

the Dove Awards while they were hosting, and I was like, oh

19:40

man, and I have video of it. But all

19:43

right, so an article, that's either here

19:45

or there. But an article

19:47

has come out on Reddit,

19:49

actually a viral Reddit post about

19:51

people's stories of being blocked, and

19:53

I got a couple of them that

19:56

I wanted to share with y'all. Here's one, a friend

19:58

of the show, Kel Mitchell. I

22:00

got blocked by, just kidding, I got blocked

22:02

on Twitter by OJ Simpson in 2020 for

22:05

asking if he plans on purchasing the

22:07

new Bronco in white when it's released,

22:09

which I feel like is

22:11

an hilarious joke and he should have

22:13

somehow figured out some sponsorship. Here's the

22:15

last one. I gotta say, I

22:18

don't know why he was offended by that because

22:20

didn't he come up with a book that was

22:22

like, if I did it? Like, if I did.

22:24

He seemed to make more inappropriate jokes about his

22:26

salacious past than anyone. So it's shocking

22:29

that he passed

22:31

recently, but it's so tense. Anyway. On

22:34

Dateline, didn't he do that thing where he

22:36

opened the door on the host and then

22:38

he had a knife and he was like,

22:40

dad, dad, dad, dad. He literally did that.

22:42

It's like the original Dateline when they would

22:44

actually do more than just murders, but I

22:47

mean, he was a murderer. But my favorite

22:49

part of that Dateline to get off subject

22:51

was when they're walking down Venice Beach and

22:53

he's just strolling. He's huge, he's OJ Simpson.

22:55

And as he's walking, this woman walks up

22:57

to him and goes, can I shake your

22:59

hand? And he goes, absolutely. He shakes her

23:01

hand. She goes, I've never shaken hands with

23:03

the murderer. And she walks away. One of

23:05

the best live moments of

23:07

live television I've ever seen. Aria, last and final

23:10

one. This is a

23:12

good one. When the Mars Rover played

23:14

a black eyed piece song on Mars,

23:17

I tweeted great. Now the Martians will

23:19

definitely be hostile. And then

23:22

I got blocked by William. It's great,

23:24

I didn't even mention him. I didn't mention

23:26

him at all. So I'm kind of a loss

23:28

on how he saw it. And that's

23:30

I think that concludes. He's got a Google

23:32

alert for if anybody says black eyed peas.

23:34

Hey, everybody, we're still relevant. I

23:38

love how people who have made

23:40

it and have arrived and

23:42

have wealth, fame, notoriety. They got

23:45

it all. They tend

23:47

to be the most, I don't want to pay with too

23:49

broad a rush, but in my experience, some of the most

23:51

sensitive, no fun,

23:54

yeah, Nickelback, Kevin Durant, the

23:56

list goes on. Wait, Jesse, weren't you

23:58

blocked by Nickelback? wasn't blocked

24:00

by, well, probably was, but they

24:04

were publicly saying, they were saying things

24:06

about me that were untrue. At

24:09

one point they said, I was embezzling

24:11

the donation somehow and that Cherry Water

24:13

had to disown me and was concerned

24:16

about where this money was going. It

24:18

was like, guys. They

24:20

put misinformation out there. Yeah,

24:22

but either way, like- The

24:24

question shouldn't have been, have you ever been blocked by

24:27

a celebrity? Have you ever been lied about by a

24:29

celebrity? Have

24:31

you ever accused a fraud

24:33

by a celebrity? No, but the

24:36

point stands, it's like, guys, we're

24:38

making a joke, okay? Lighten up.

24:40

They're super, these people who are

24:43

super successful and

24:45

have nothing to prove to anyone. The number's so wide.

24:47

These people sell a lot of albums. They make a

24:50

lot of money playing sports. They do this and that.

24:53

Who cares? It's just a goof, man.

24:56

They got it all, but when they see you on Twitter, it

24:58

gets them really upset. I wonder

25:00

what you said to make Elevation Worship block

25:02

you. You finding out because you were just

25:04

on your phone at the Dove Awards and

25:07

they were on stage and you're like, what's

25:09

their deal? Let me look them up on

25:11

Instagram and find out that they blocked you.

25:13

It's so funny to me. I've also been

25:15

blocked by a couple senators, but a couple

25:17

... We were talking to Emily about this,

25:19

but I've been blocked by a couple senators

25:22

too. There was a rule that if you're

25:24

a public servant, you have to block people.

25:26

They had to unblock me, which I thought

25:28

was pretty awesome. Now, I have less material

25:30

because all the likes on X are hidden.

25:32

Those use that material against

25:35

my local congressman. Isn't

25:39

that crazy that he said literally the

25:41

reason why he disabled the ability to

25:43

see what other people are commenting is

25:45

that he wanted people to feel free

25:47

to engage more fringe content on the

25:49

platform. He wanted them

25:51

to engage more conspiratorial or maybe

25:54

porn or whatever and like it and feel free

25:56

to do that. He

25:58

wanted people to not feel shame. by

26:01

engaging that stuff. So that's what he's wanting

26:03

to promote. Wow. What

26:05

I thought was really funny is a lot of people were lamenting

26:07

that you can't see other people's likes because they were like, how

26:09

will I be able to see what,

26:11

and I don't know, I just saw so many

26:13

tweets about it that I started thinking, how many

26:16

people are going through other people's lives? I didn't

26:18

realize that was a big thing. Oh, I think

26:20

it's a thing. There was a new situation actually

26:22

last week where Vince from ACDC, it went viral

26:25

on TikTok. It was like, don't go through his

26:27

likes because apparently he had

26:29

the worst things in his likes. And

26:31

that just happened last week, and then

26:33

they stopped it. So he really missed

26:35

it by a week, which really is

26:37

a shame. Or do you think he

26:39

was like- I always wondered what he

26:41

had. What was it, what was there

26:43

that he wasn't, people were like, you

26:45

gotta see this thing. Maybe ACDC, maybe

26:47

Elon's a big ACDC fan, and he's

26:49

like, yo, my favorite band's getting- Domino's

26:51

Phelps. Yeah, I gotta prevent this from

26:53

happening in the future. I

26:55

get people do it for celebrities or whatever, it

26:58

always ends up being awkward or funny. But the way people

27:01

were talking about it was they were

27:03

going through their friends' likes or just

27:05

not famous people's likes, which I was

27:07

like, that feels weird. Yeah,

27:10

because the like is the perfect

27:12

passive aggressive. I'm

27:16

not saying it, but I'm glad someone else-

27:19

It was like, even this week, it

27:21

was JD Vance, who's

27:23

a controversial lawmaker, who

27:28

is on the, well, evidently is on

27:30

the short list to be Trump's vice

27:32

presidential candidate. And I saw a headline

27:34

like, JD Vance previously liked a

27:38

comment about Trump being a

27:40

rapist or something. And it's like, back

27:43

in the day, or a sports, an athlete-

27:45

Yeah, they did it, he was a cheater.

27:47

Liking a comment from a commentator about another

27:49

athlete. Like talking trash, like it's like, I

27:52

didn't say it, I just liked that Steven

27:54

A. called out LeBron and I'm

27:56

Curry. You know what I mean? Like it was

27:58

a way to kind of passive aggressively. It even

28:00

got to the point where people on their profiles

28:03

would put likes are not endorsements or retweets are

28:05

not. Because people would be like, wow, if you

28:07

like it, that says a lot. You know, it

28:09

means you 100% agree with it. Yeah. Now

28:12

I guess the idea of just liking something is just

28:14

pit the pitfall. Yep. All

28:16

right. Well, Emily, we've run out of time.

28:18

We have other things to get to on this show.

28:20

So you are off the hook for bringing the slice

28:23

today. Oh, I just think

28:25

I have one. Oh my gosh. I'm

28:27

getting a rant about dating apps, but we

28:29

can save that for another week. All right. That'll

28:31

do it for slices. Okay. Normally now

28:33

up next would be our guest, but because

28:36

we're doing a different approach this week,

28:38

our talk with Carl will be at the end

28:41

of the show. So stay tuned right now up next. It's

28:43

Would You Rather? You're

29:14

listening to Gus Dapperton. The song is

29:16

Everything She Wants. Well,

29:18

today's show is brought to you in part by World

29:20

Vision. We all subscribe to a

29:22

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World Change Today at

30:11

worldvision.org. Again that's

30:14

worldvision.org. Okay it

30:16

is time for a round of... Would

30:24

you rather? We uh there's

30:26

no no points on this one. This is just a

30:29

friends talking about things. Great. Can't see

30:31

them. Can't see the likes. Free

30:34

swim. Yep gotcha. Marty you're up first.

30:37

Here we go. Would you rather give

30:39

up all social media for a year

30:41

or give up all television including streaming

30:44

for a year? Social media. 100% give

30:46

up social media for sure. I would

30:49

love to do that. Right? Who wouldn't want to do that?

30:51

Here's the thing though like cuz I do

30:53

I do kind of want to push back on this. Your work

30:55

like you promoted on social media so like.

30:58

He could have somebody else do it. Yeah

31:01

well the thing about social media is that it's

31:03

just a black hole of I always want to

31:05

know what's going on and TikTok

31:07

and especially Instagram reels has made it so

31:09

much so easy just to swipe through. They're

31:11

getting better at like knowing what you like

31:14

and so it could be three hours I'll

31:16

be stuck there so. Emily

31:19

would you rather never be able to drink

31:21

coffee again or never be able to drink

31:23

soda again? That's

31:27

really hard because I do love Dr. Pepper but I am

31:30

a different person before and after coffee so

31:32

I think for the sake of humanity I

31:34

need to keep coffee in my life. Can't

31:36

attest. I agree. Good answer. Jesse

31:40

would you rather have an unlimited supply of

31:42

your favorite food but never be able to

31:44

eat anything else or have a variety of

31:46

foods but never get to eat your favorite

31:48

food again? Give

31:50

me variety. I don't really have

31:53

a specific. Yeah yeah a

31:55

hard and fast favorite. Give me variety all

31:57

day. See I was wondering what your

31:59

favorite was. because I was going to assume maybe like nachos,

32:01

because I know you talk about them. I do. Tacos

32:04

and nachos are a huge staple

32:06

of my diet, but I could sell them nachos

32:08

forever. I could do

32:11

it. I could do it if there were

32:13

other good variety. Yeah, you could adapt. Yeah,

32:15

I'm adaptable. He's adapting. He'll find his new

32:17

nacho, his new favorite. All

32:19

of a sudden he falls in love with loaded

32:21

potato skins. Boom, that's his new

32:23

nacho. With impossible hot dogs.

32:25

He loves them. All

32:28

right, let's see. Marty,

32:30

would you rather always be slightly too hot

32:33

or slightly too cold? I'd

32:36

rather be slightly too cold.

32:39

Hot is rough, man. Hot is a rough thing

32:41

to do. To be hot all

32:43

the time. I agree. You

32:45

can always put on more layers. You can't. Yeah,

32:48

I always put a hoodie on and just at

32:50

least be like this. You can't take off too

32:52

many clothes, so it's true. All right, Emily, would

32:54

you rather be a genius in a world of

32:56

average people or be average in a world of

32:58

geniuses? I feel like you're

33:01

already a genius. You're the smartest person in

33:03

the world. Tortured poet society. But think about

33:05

it, if everybody's genius, then the world's a

33:08

better place. There's more innovation, there's more whatever,

33:10

so your life would probably

33:12

be better if everybody was smarter,

33:14

right? Yeah,

33:16

but if I'm a genius in a world

33:18

of average people- You can run the world.

33:21

You're already in the world of average people,

33:23

so just factor that in. Just kidding. You're

33:25

talking like an idiocracy scenario, right? I mean,

33:28

this is basically the plot of idiocracy. I

33:31

don't know what that is. I haven't seen that movie,

33:33

I'm so sorry. It's a movie where Luke, yeah, right?

33:35

Where Luke Wilson- Luke Wilson is

33:38

frozen as part of a, you know,

33:40

and he's asleep for like- That was insane, oh man. No,

33:44

no, and he wakes up a

33:46

few decades in the future, and because

33:48

of, it's actually a very prescient movie.

33:50

It's really sad, actually, because that's for

33:52

real. A celebrity played by Terry Crews

33:54

has taken over the White House. All

33:57

of America is dumbed down because of

33:59

the- media and junk food. It's

34:02

like I said, it's very, they don't watch

34:04

it today is like, Oh my

34:07

gosh, the idea accuracy called a lot, but he wakes

34:10

up and like the average person from like 30 years

34:12

ago is now the smartest person in America. Anyway, go

34:14

ahead. All that

34:16

to say, I think I would like to be a genius. I'm

34:18

also, I'm the interim five. I just like to know things. I

34:21

think it's like deep in my soul. I have to be

34:23

the smartest person in the room. Not always, but I would

34:26

like again, can attest. All right. Uh,

34:28

Jesse, would you rather have to

34:30

work 80 hours a week, but be able to

34:32

retire in 10 years or work 40 hours a

34:34

week until you're 65? I'd

34:37

be done in 10 years. I mean, it's

34:39

not that good that I do now, but

34:42

these are the best 10 years of your life. Your kids

34:44

ages, working 80 hours, you wouldn't be able to do any

34:46

of those kids things. You would give that up. I would,

34:48

I would find a way. I would find a way and

34:51

find a way 10 years. Yeah, I take it.

34:55

I mean, it's not that

34:57

different than to be honest with

34:59

you. No, no, I would take

35:01

it and be done in 10. Yeah, I could. Yeah,

35:04

I could still make things happen. Honestly, by then your kids

35:06

will be in there like 20s. You can have a lot of fun

35:08

with them. Yeah, exactly. You could be free. Yeah,

35:10

you're free. Yeah. Marty, would you

35:12

rather have a unibrow that you can't pluck

35:14

or save or have no eyebrows at all?

35:18

I'd rather have that unibrow. I'd rather be like

35:20

that one basketball player. What's his name? That's a

35:22

day. Pull it and Anthony

35:25

Davis on it. You just own it. Yeah,

35:27

I don't want to do like a Lex

35:29

Luthor situation with no, you know, like Whoopi

35:31

Goldberg. Like I don't have an expressive face

35:34

like her where I can have no eyebrows.

35:36

Does Whoopi Goldberg not have eyebrows? She has

35:38

no eyebrows. Yeah, she's never had eyebrows. Not

35:40

even in Sister Act 2. You got very

35:42

sweaty eyes. Yeah. That's how expressive her face

35:45

is. What? Yeah,

35:47

it's very, yeah. You've never, look at it. She's

35:49

never had eyebrows. Look at ghost. This

35:52

sounds like the sort of thing that the internet

35:54

just made up and you believe and like it's

35:56

not actually true. You know, I was coming to

35:58

the facts. Yeah,

38:00

I was a geek for sure. Yeah. A

38:03

leak. Jesse, would you rather always have to

38:06

sing instead of speak or dance

38:08

everywhere you go? I'd

38:11

take dance. I'd take dance either

38:13

way. Without question. The

38:15

money I would pay, the money I would pay

38:18

to see you have to dance. I've

38:20

been reading. Have you ever seen at the DMV at the

38:22

grocery store and you have to dance? Well, maybe because the

38:24

thing is. Because you're a kid from school, you have to

38:26

dance. Just wait in line. Because

38:29

I'm thinking about professional

38:31

scenarios I could be

38:33

sitting. I could just wheel myself

38:35

in. You could dance in and out of the meeting. In

38:39

the Zoom era, I know I have to sing. What if I

38:41

get in legal trouble? I

38:44

can't be singing in the courtroom, but if I

38:46

dance up to the jury box, people are like,

38:48

that guy's innocent. No

38:50

guilty person dances to that

38:52

shoes. That's

38:55

someone who's free as a bird. He

38:57

did not do it. Look, he's dancing into

38:59

the witness stand. Have you

39:01

guys ever seen the YouTube skit? I went to crime,

39:03

but go ahead. He's

39:05

really thinking about this scenario. There's a

39:08

really great skit that Kyle Mooney did

39:10

with Beck Bennett when they were in

39:12

a comedy troupe together. It's on YouTube,

39:14

but they did this exact scenario where

39:16

it was a serious thing like business

39:18

boardroom meeting, but everyone's dancing the entire

39:20

time without any inspiration. It's

39:22

like a drama, but everyone's just moving

39:24

and dancing. It's so funny. I'll have to send it to

39:26

you all later, but I made it to this

39:28

exact scenario. I think you picked right, Jesse. All

39:31

right. This is the flash drive. We only got

39:33

like one minute left. Here we go. Marty,

39:36

would you rather have a constant itch

39:38

or a constant hiccup? Hiccup.

39:41

Yeah. That's the right choice. That's the

39:43

right choice. Emily,

39:48

would you rather be a giant hamster or

39:50

a tiny rhino? Oh,

39:52

giant hamster. Yeah. That'd

39:55

be terrifying. I think I love that. Excellent

39:57

choice. All right. Last one. Here

39:59

we go. you say or whisper everything you say.

40:03

I'd shout. I basically do that now.

40:05

So what if you're in court and you're screaming

40:07

and you're going to be held in content. I

40:09

didn't do it. Yeah. Again,

40:12

I'm dancing and screaming. I just looked like a

40:14

lunatic everywhere. You would get into a psych ward,

40:16

but you would not get into jail. Yeah.

40:20

I look like a fun lunatic. But how weird would it

40:22

be if you were whispering and dancing? If I was whispering

40:24

and creeping, it's creepy. Yeah. He's like,

40:26

well, that guy's definitely a serial killer. He's

40:28

whispering and dancing. That's

40:31

like a nightmare. That's nightmare zone stuff.

40:33

This is a nightline stuff. He took

40:35

a stab at those complicated dance steps.

40:37

Yeah. All right.

40:39

He stepped on his competition. All right. That'll

40:42

do it for her. Stay tuned. Up next.

40:47

It's my unedited conversation with Carl

40:49

Linz. You're

41:00

listening to David Hale. The

41:21

song is Never Want to Let Go. Well,

41:23

today's episode is brought to you in part

41:26

by American Prophet. What would

41:28

God say through a prophet today? In the

41:30

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41:58

for just a couple of Florida

44:00

for over two years and

44:02

we saw each other regularly during

44:05

that period. But more than that, we talked

44:07

often about the good, bad, and the ugly,

44:09

about what he and the family were

44:11

going through, what they were doing, how they were

44:13

doing, and all of it. I

44:16

didn't share any of that publicly, but that's the truth

44:18

and that's the context for the conversation you're about to

44:20

hear. So he's

44:22

done a couple of interviews over the last couple of

44:24

weeks talking about the new

44:27

podcast. Like I mentioned earlier, he did

44:29

Nightline and the Breakfast Club and now he's talking to us. We

44:32

talked for about an hour, which,

44:34

like I said, explains the long episode

44:36

time. If

44:38

you're interested, it's well worth the listen.

44:41

I tried to cover things that the

44:43

other interviews, the 10-minute interviews, 5-minute interviews

44:45

didn't cover. I tried to get into

44:47

the journey leading up to what happened,

44:50

what really happened in the years after, what

44:53

happened, where they are now and where they're going. Yeah,

44:57

it's well worth the listen. Here's

44:59

my conversation, unedited conversation

45:01

with Carl Lents. So

45:10

how has it been having

45:13

to talk about

45:15

all this publicly and relive a

45:17

lot of this stuff in the last few weeks?

45:21

Good question. I think it's been

45:24

mixed. On

45:26

one hand, it's been really freeing and

45:28

feels good because we're able to speak

45:31

really honestly and truthfully about stuff that hasn't had

45:34

any light. So

45:37

that's been cool. Definitely

45:39

we and Laura both realize that we've healed

45:41

a lot because we haven't thought about some

45:43

of that pain on that

45:46

degree in a long

45:48

time. So it has been a little bit hard as

45:50

well. So

45:53

I'm looking forward to maybe getting a little bit of conditioning

45:56

to my soul so I can keep on talking about this because I

45:58

know it's going to be a part of it. part of

46:00

our lives. And yeah,

46:02

so it's been, it's been really, it's

46:05

been, but way more freeing and feeling

46:07

better than it does anything else. It's

46:09

just this new agenda to be talking

46:11

about your worst stuff every

46:13

day. It's like, all right, this is,

46:15

I wouldn't have picked this story, I

46:17

wouldn't have picked this angle for

46:20

my own life, but God knows. So I gotta,

46:22

I gotta, I gotta deal with it in front

46:24

of me. Do you know? And it's, it's a

46:27

long time ago. I mean, it feels like I, to me,

46:29

I was talking to a friend the other day that feels

46:31

like the last four years, it's like five months, but

46:34

it's been four or five years. I mean, that's

46:36

a long time. I

46:38

actually am interested, like, obviously everybody

46:40

saw the headlines and I'm

46:43

not gonna get into like what happened. That's

46:45

been told. I'm interested to

46:47

know the journey up until

46:50

that moment for you, the

46:52

whirlwind of life and launching Hillsong. And,

46:55

you know, like, when did you start

46:57

feeling that you were unhealthy? When did

46:59

you start feeling things were off track?

47:02

That's a great question. And I don't know if

47:04

you're gonna make space for this on your own

47:06

podcast, but I am really grateful for you. You've

47:09

been a faithful friend to me and

47:12

we've known each other for a really long

47:14

time. And we started fighting about basketball when

47:17

I was in Oklahoma at a youth conference

47:19

to this day. And you

47:21

have been a really faithful friend. So I am

47:24

grateful I can publicly thank you for never,

47:26

never running from some of the

47:28

hard times. And there were

47:31

some really, really tough ones when I was in

47:33

your proximity early on and you were

47:35

really kind. So thank you. I

47:37

appreciate you as my friend and brother. I

47:40

think I've thought about this so much lately

47:43

talking through with Laura, because people ask questions like,

47:46

could this have been prevented? You know,

47:48

what led to it? And there's

47:50

fancy answers for all that. And

47:52

then there's like, the reality is you

47:54

don't know what you don't know. So I can look

47:56

back now and see warning signs

47:59

and see things like that. that are not

48:01

healthy. But back then I didn't know. And

48:03

a lot of it was just the way

48:05

we do things. So I

48:08

think in general, Cam,

48:10

I would have cut 90% of

48:12

the stuff we were doing and just done 10%. From

48:15

the moment we landed in New York, it was just too

48:17

much. What do you mean? Like

48:19

90% of what? So

48:21

mid, we're mid 30s, small

48:24

family trying to attack this

48:27

phenomenal city. And

48:30

everything explodes. So

48:32

everything around you, everything's

48:35

expedited, it's moving faster. And

48:38

I think I would have just gone at a

48:40

really slow pace and made sure that my soul

48:43

continued to grow with the growth. Someone

48:46

asked me recently, did fame platform,

48:49

did it change you? And my answer is

48:51

always not enough. It didn't change

48:53

me enough. It should have. I think

48:55

we should all mature and grow. And I was doing

48:57

the same thing in New York, but I was doing

49:00

in Virginia Beach, Virginia. Same access,

49:02

same availability, same everything. And it just

49:04

eventually, I look back on it now

49:06

and I'm like, the

49:08

beginning of the end was the beginning. It's like,

49:11

I didn't start in a place where I knew some of

49:15

the stuff we know now. So I'm not, I

49:17

don't look back with regret because I think it's

49:19

a wasted emotion. But I do look

49:21

back and go, what can I help somebody else with

49:23

that's going to be in that same spot? Because is

49:26

it avoidable? 100%. Like what

49:28

happened to me doesn't have to be anybody else's story. I'm

49:30

sure it will be. There will be people who go down

49:32

a road like that, but knowing

49:34

what we know now, I think we

49:36

can spare a lot of

49:38

heartache just because of what we've learned

49:40

on the journey. Why

49:42

is it that so many successful

49:45

mega church pastors fall

49:49

to especially sexual sin? But like, I

49:51

mean, there's a number of things, greed,

49:53

pride, there's a that derail

49:55

people too. But as far as like scandals,

49:57

it seems like every other week. to

1:06:00

me by her and the people I was accountable

1:06:02

to. And if I didn't do that, she was

1:06:04

gone. She had her money separated. She had divorce

1:06:06

lawyers. She had people that were all over this.

1:06:09

So, yeah,

1:06:11

I think that's the, I think it's just, if

1:06:13

there is somebody that wants to stick it out,

1:06:15

I think the way she did it is safe

1:06:17

because if I didn't make the right decisions, it's

1:06:19

not like she's still hanging out waving

1:06:21

in the wind there. She had

1:06:23

a way to, you know, get out of

1:06:25

there and get forward. So, yeah, she is

1:06:27

a miracle. You know, there was no reason

1:06:30

for her to stay. And she

1:06:32

chose to stay to see what God could

1:06:35

do with our story. And that's where we're

1:06:37

at. I know

1:06:39

probably your kids had a similar feeling,

1:06:41

you know, and of like, well, if dad's

1:06:43

gonna prove it over

1:06:45

time, you know, then we'll stay in

1:06:48

his corner. But if he deviates from

1:06:50

the plan, we're out of here. I mean, I

1:06:52

know you have friends like that. I know you

1:06:54

have, like, there's conditions, like you got

1:06:56

to do what you say you're gonna do. Like,

1:06:58

we're not gonna be burned twice. We're gonna like,

1:07:01

we'll stand by you. But we're gonna see if you're

1:07:03

gonna tell the truth this time. Do

1:07:06

you feel, I don't know, how does that make

1:07:08

you feel that like so many of the people

1:07:11

that were closest to you, if

1:07:13

they didn't leave, I know a lot

1:07:15

of your closest people did leave. You

1:07:18

know, the ones that stayed, stayed conditionally.

1:07:21

Like, how do you feel? How does that make you feel? I

1:07:25

mean, I found out there's all different types

1:07:27

of friends in not not nobody does it

1:07:29

exactly the same way. So how

1:07:32

did I feel that some of my

1:07:34

closest friends left? I understood it. I

1:07:36

got it hurt, crushed, sad,

1:07:39

mad for a little bit as

1:07:41

well. And then that that chapter

1:07:44

of friendships, I'll put somewhere else,

1:07:46

the friends that I stayed,

1:07:50

but had conditions, I got that

1:07:52

too. I understood it. And the

1:07:54

same time, I'm like, I don't,

1:07:57

I don't want to start fresh with conditions either. So

1:07:59

So I don't know how I'm going to handle that

1:08:01

or play that. And then there were

1:08:03

the friends that were like, I

1:08:06

don't know what makes these guys different, but I relate

1:08:08

to it. It's just like, hey, I loved you before,

1:08:10

I'm gonna love you now. Like I'm not going to

1:08:12

leave you now. Like you have an

1:08:14

issue, you're handling it. It's big

1:08:16

and it affected a lot of people because

1:08:18

of your role, but it doesn't

1:08:20

make much sense for me to be in

1:08:22

your boat and then jump out

1:08:25

when you're sinking. So there were a lot

1:08:27

of those friends, Cam, to be honest with

1:08:29

you, and I am still blown away at

1:08:31

the graciousness of God for anybody to act

1:08:33

like that. It's not like they got their

1:08:35

eyes shut. Like, you know, I mean, you're

1:08:37

a friend that has stuck by me and

1:08:39

you've given me grace at the same time.

1:08:41

You're not an idiot. Like if I'm blatantly

1:08:44

not doing what I said I do, now

1:08:46

you're around somebody who's willfully continuing to deceive

1:08:48

people. That's a different world. So I feel

1:08:51

like if you're in my shoes, you have

1:08:53

to be willing to accept people's conditions. And

1:08:55

when you don't get conditions from people, it's

1:08:58

even more humbling because there are always gonna be

1:09:00

conditions, hear me. But to have

1:09:02

somebody say, I'm gonna give you trust you haven't earned,

1:09:06

that's a heavy and amazing weight

1:09:08

to carry. I feel

1:09:11

like the church is all about being

1:09:15

redeemed. And you know, that's the

1:09:17

gospel. It's like in

1:09:19

our brokenness, Christ fills

1:09:21

in the gaps. And it's like, I

1:09:23

think it's so interesting to watch though,

1:09:26

than the church when

1:09:28

leaders fall, like discard

1:09:30

them like trash. And it's like,

1:09:32

well, shouldn't we be rooting for

1:09:34

their redemption? Well, shouldn't we be

1:09:37

rooting for the restoration? Shouldn't we,

1:09:39

you know, if they're willing to do the work, if

1:09:41

they're willing to, like, shouldn't we be pulling for them?

1:09:43

But for so many situations, you

1:09:46

see, it's just like Christians are like

1:09:48

the most or least forgiving and the

1:09:50

most judgmental. And that just always baffles

1:09:52

me that we don't do what we

1:09:54

say we believe in. I

1:09:56

think, Cam, there's a line in there where... It's

1:10:00

what you're saying. Yes, I feel like, especially

1:10:03

if somebody's response is,

1:10:06

I surrender, I think

1:10:08

that should warrant a different response as well. There's

1:10:10

nothing you have to trust. I mean, you have

1:10:12

to love. But I never once put my hand

1:10:14

up and was defiant, even when there are lies

1:10:17

being said. I let it riot. And

1:10:19

so I feel like if I'm

1:10:21

defiant and I'm going to planet

1:10:23

church a month later and I'm

1:10:25

displacing blame. Yeah. But if someone

1:10:28

sins and yes, even

1:10:30

if they're a leader and they confess

1:10:32

their sin and they repent and

1:10:35

they do everything they're asked to do, I

1:10:37

do feel like that has to weigh in

1:10:39

somewhere. It has to be factored in.

1:10:42

Doesn't mean people have to have leadership positions. I

1:10:44

mean, you have to agree with them. But yeah,

1:10:46

the base level of grace from

1:10:48

this angle, what I've seen in some

1:10:51

of the church culture, it's

1:10:53

very interesting because it doesn't match what we

1:10:55

say. I mean, we have preachers, even some

1:10:57

of my old friends that will preach these

1:11:00

big, long, beautiful messages about prodigals and being

1:11:02

kind to people who, and in

1:11:05

reality, we don't really walk that out. We

1:11:07

just don't. It's okay. As long as everybody

1:11:09

admits that that's my thing. It's like, cool,

1:11:12

like still preach it, but also put your hand up and

1:11:14

say, I'm really bad at this. Our

1:11:16

church is really bad at this. Like we don't like

1:11:18

it when people come in and they're

1:11:21

that bad. We have different levels of bad too.

1:11:23

There's some bad that makes us feel good and

1:11:25

look good. I'm going to sit next to a

1:11:27

homeless guy because he didn't deserve this

1:11:29

and he's whatever. And that makes you look good

1:11:31

as well. And then there's other kind of

1:11:33

bad and adulterer, somebody

1:11:36

who was a leader and they lied and deceived

1:11:38

people. That's a different bad where you don't want

1:11:40

anything to do with that. So we've

1:11:42

got, we've got different standards.

1:11:44

And again, my thing with the church is let's

1:11:46

just be honest though. It's

1:11:49

not unconditional love. It's love

1:11:51

with conditions. Maybe that's okay, but let's talk

1:11:53

about it. It's not come as you are.

1:11:55

Not true. Should it be? Yeah, it's

1:11:58

a discussion. That's not how it is. And

1:30:00

that's how I knew this wasn't about me. Because

1:30:03

if a guy stumbles and he does these

1:30:05

seven things, maybe, well, I did those. And

1:30:07

you were still a complete idiot and a

1:30:10

jerk. And you turned your back. And you

1:30:12

are still writing things. So

1:30:14

that's when I was like, man, this is actually

1:30:16

heavier than I even imagined. I

1:30:18

feel bad for dudes in my position

1:30:20

who don't have the friends that I

1:30:22

do, don't have the outlets.

1:30:25

But yeah, I do feel like

1:30:27

that's something that wasn't talked about a

1:30:29

lot. And I think it's

1:30:31

because it would take away too much as a narrative. If it

1:30:33

got out that I was doing exactly

1:30:35

what I was told to do by doctors and pastors

1:30:37

and my wife, and I was doing it to

1:30:39

the T, it would change the narrative too

1:30:42

much. But the guy who's gonna come back

1:30:44

six months later and have a completely

1:30:46

new PR image and a new church

1:30:48

and kind of, yeah, you're right.

1:30:50

I think people did expect that. I think some

1:30:52

people still do. They're like, he's just waiting longer.

1:30:55

Hate to break it to those people. That's

1:30:58

not in the cards. It's

1:31:00

just not. And you can keep on doubting

1:31:02

and no one ever apologized. It's not

1:31:05

like, hey, come back in five years. You're

1:31:07

never gonna come back. The people

1:31:09

who have already written things that are false, no

1:31:12

one's ever written me like, hey, sorry I wrote that. I

1:31:15

was wrong. No, they just shut their mouth.

1:31:17

And so people are like, I'm

1:31:19

skeptical. Cool, I would be skeptical. I get

1:31:21

that. Nothing I can do

1:31:23

for you there, other than I'm gonna keep doing

1:31:25

my best to live a life that's clean and

1:31:28

honest and hopeful and passionate. I

1:31:30

did choose to give me the honor of

1:31:32

trusting me again. I really appreciate it. And

1:31:34

I accept it, but I can't force

1:31:37

that. And I can't be on

1:31:39

a tryout, a grace tryout. Like, does this

1:31:41

mean I'm reformed? Does this mean I'm healthy?

1:31:43

Like, what do you need to see that

1:31:46

you're gonna think that I'm different? Like,

1:31:48

I can't live like that. That's not,

1:31:50

and plus that's performative. It's behavior therapy.

1:31:52

Like, I'm not, I haven't been working

1:31:54

on my behavior, Cam. I've

1:31:56

been working on the state of my soul. Big,

1:31:58

big, big difference. My beat. they

1:38:00

need. And then maybe we can prevent the fall.

1:38:02

Maybe we can prevent it from getting

1:38:04

to that point. And hearing you

1:38:06

kind of telling me some of those stories behind the

1:38:08

scenes that are happening now, I'm telling you that was

1:38:10

not happening five years ago. And so

1:38:14

hallelujah, because that could have such an

1:38:16

impact on what God's doing today, getting

1:38:18

some of these guys and women to

1:38:20

stay in the fight and get healthy.

1:38:22

I like good, you know,

1:38:24

so. And there's some advantages on my story

1:38:26

is it's not it is that I have

1:38:28

been through it, you know, it's not like

1:38:30

I'm gonna sit across from somebody who's

1:38:33

working like your finger at him or lost

1:38:35

more like I lost a lot went through

1:38:37

a lot. So I think being able to

1:38:39

use our story in that way, you know,

1:38:42

it is it is really redeeming for sure.

1:38:44

It feels good. So

1:38:47

podcast plans lights on with Carl Lance, it's

1:38:49

blown up three episodes in when we're recording

1:38:51

this. Like what's the long

1:38:53

term plans for it? Do you see it as

1:38:56

like, there's a beginning middle and end to

1:38:58

this story? Or is it Do you see it

1:39:00

a forever thing? What's your vision for the podcast?

1:39:02

Yeah, I think my vision for the podcast is

1:39:04

to continue like the the the why I

1:39:06

chose lights on and took me forever. To think

1:39:09

of something to call that is

1:39:11

because I've lived so long in the dark,

1:39:13

the moment you turn the lights on, you

1:39:16

know, a room that seems scary, it's not so

1:39:18

scary. And I feel like that represents so much

1:39:21

of the people that I love and the people

1:39:23

that I can reach and have reached in the

1:39:25

past. It's like a little bit of light right

1:39:27

there is going to bring a

1:39:29

whole lot of help. And so I think moving forward,

1:39:31

the first chunk of this, I wanted us to be

1:39:33

able to talk about our story, because

1:39:35

everybody else has not everybody, a lot

1:39:38

of people have. And it

1:39:40

can help people. The next chapter is going

1:39:42

to be some of the people that helped

1:39:44

me. So whether it's doctors, friends, therapists,

1:39:47

that's going to be a lot of fun.

1:39:49

We've done a couple of them already. And

1:39:51

they're just unfricking believable. They're going to be

1:39:53

too much for some Christians for sure, because

1:39:55

we're not we're not fluffing around with this

1:39:58

stuff. It's like we're really going to talk

1:40:00

about some of the stuff that isn't

1:40:02

talked about. And so, and then beyond that, I

1:40:05

don't know what the future holds. I think I

1:40:07

love talking to people and extracting

1:40:09

gold from them for everybody else. And,

1:40:12

K, this is an important thing. I

1:40:14

had access to help that cost a lot of

1:40:17

money. A lot of money. And people helped me

1:40:19

get there. Yeah. Not everybody has

1:40:21

the access to that. So for the people who have

1:40:23

questioned me from time, like, why do you have to

1:40:25

do a podcast? Well, I don't have to do anything,

1:40:28

but I'm also responsible for the information I've

1:40:30

been given. And especially with some of the

1:40:32

addiction recovery stuff, people don't have access to

1:40:34

what I did. So I'm going to give you

1:40:37

access to it. I want to take this to people

1:40:39

who can't spend an ungodly

1:40:41

amount of money and go to a rehab. Do you

1:40:43

know how many people wish they could have go to

1:40:46

the rehab that I went to? They just can't. They

1:40:48

can't get there. It's too much money. Who can do

1:40:50

that? So I want my

1:40:53

podcast to be like the cliff notes version of all

1:40:55

the stuff you can't afford. You might not be able

1:40:57

to get the book, but man, I'm going to try

1:40:59

to give you some of the stuff that's helping me

1:41:02

take it or leave it. And what I'm seeing early

1:41:04

is that people are like, cool, you know,

1:41:06

we're going to, we're going to take it. Cause

1:41:08

we're not telling people what to do, bro. That's

1:41:10

not our heart. It's not to be like, we

1:41:12

made it. Everyone gather around here.

1:41:16

It's like, I don't even live like that anymore.

1:41:18

It's like, I am on a journey. I'm

1:41:21

going forward with my family. There's room on there

1:41:23

for you. If you want to, I

1:41:25

don't know. I'm not better than you. We're all

1:41:27

different, but we do have a unique

1:41:29

angle and I'm going to share that if you want

1:41:32

to hear it, hear it, but it's not from the

1:41:34

guru spot. It's not from, you know, the guy who's

1:41:36

setting up a church move down the road. Like I

1:41:38

can't, can't express to you how, how much that's

1:41:40

not who we are. All

1:41:43

right. Last question. Everybody wants to

1:41:45

know when are you launching your church?

1:41:48

You jerk. I

1:41:53

get this one, Cam, and I

1:41:57

did ministry most of my.

1:41:59

life, most my adult life, I

1:42:02

don't miss doing church.

1:42:06

I can't imagine us doing a

1:42:08

church at all. If

1:42:12

down the road I feel

1:42:14

super compelled, you'll

1:42:16

know about it for years beforehand. The

1:42:19

people that I love, I'm going to

1:42:21

start floating and going, man, I don't.

1:42:23

But what I went through was significant.

1:42:26

My leadership and the impact it had on

1:42:28

people, whether I like

1:42:30

it or not, I ran a church and

1:42:33

it went bad at the last chapter. Like

1:42:35

the whole picture of Pilsford, New York City,

1:42:37

amazing. I'm proud of it. So

1:42:40

proud of it. I'm also really aware

1:42:42

that there's a part in there that's painful. It had

1:42:44

to do with my leadership. I don't take that lightly.

1:42:46

So I'm not going to rush some

1:42:49

of the repair jobs that it takes

1:42:51

to, you know, I didn't get

1:42:53

there overnight. I'm not going to get healed overnight. But

1:42:56

I'm not starting any church. If

1:42:58

that, if God shows up and an angel

1:43:00

drops on my doorstep and

1:43:03

knocks with like blueprints, I'm still going to

1:43:05

say, bring another angel. I

1:43:07

got to witness. And even then I'm

1:43:09

going to submit it. But I think

1:43:11

that it's all people can see preachers

1:43:13

as preachers. I'm not that guy. I've

1:43:16

actually enjoyed, I enjoyed the job I had

1:43:18

that you knew about in Florida. I've enjoyed

1:43:22

doing this podcast. I've enjoyed coaching because that's like

1:43:24

kind of where my life blood is right now.

1:43:26

And I get to do what I did on

1:43:28

a mass scale with one person. And I freaking

1:43:30

love it without some of the headaches that come

1:43:32

with, I don't miss the ministry headaches at all.

1:43:35

But yes, that's my, my real answer

1:43:37

is it's not even in the conversation.

1:43:40

And I know people are skeptical of

1:43:42

that. Cool. Please contact

1:43:44

me down the road when you find out

1:43:46

I wasn't just blowing smoke with cam on

1:43:48

the relevant podcast. Like, no, I don't expect

1:43:50

you to come back around. But I can

1:43:52

tell you right now, if people are

1:43:54

waiting for me to come back and do a church, I've been waiting

1:43:56

a long time. Well, thanks

1:43:58

for being so honest and

1:44:01

open. I mean, it's refreshing. The church needs it.

1:44:03

I know you're not thinking about all that. You're

1:44:05

not thinking about the weight that you carry, but

1:44:08

your story and you walking

1:44:11

it out the way you have over the last

1:44:13

four years and private,

1:44:16

and now you're talking about that private

1:44:18

journey publicly, it really is helping a

1:44:20

lot of people, man, and it's going to continue to. And I'm

1:44:22

just cheering you on. So

1:44:24

thanks for having this conversation with us. Before you

1:44:26

hang up on me, you know, I've loved relevant

1:44:29

for a long time. You know that in your

1:44:32

community often is filled with

1:44:34

Christians that are trying to reach the world.

1:44:36

And I'm just, I'm

1:44:38

sorry to those people that are part of

1:44:40

the relevant community where my story hindered your

1:44:43

ability to do that. And

1:44:45

I really pray that the people who

1:44:47

call this community home that keep watching

1:44:50

the story, because I'm hoping the same story

1:44:53

that made a hindrance will become a help

1:44:55

at some point. But I'm aware for people

1:44:57

that love you and they love this, this

1:45:00

relevant vibe, then you can't

1:45:02

like relevant. If you don't want to reach

1:45:04

people, you can't do it. It's not that

1:45:06

sticky Christian community that they're filled with people

1:45:08

who are there, they're out there trying to

1:45:10

get it done. I recognize that

1:45:12

my story back then made it harder. And

1:45:15

I apologize for that deeply. And

1:45:17

I look forward to me giving them ammo

1:45:19

that's different moving forward. So thank you for

1:45:21

doing what you've done for so long, bro.

1:45:23

All right, buddy. Well, thanks for having this

1:45:25

conversation with us. All the best. Why are

1:45:27

you laughing right there? Why did that make

1:45:29

you laugh? Nothing. I'm not laughing. I'm just,

1:45:32

you know, smiling. You're sweet. You're, you know,

1:45:34

deflecting. You always deflect. I'm not deflecting. I'm

1:45:36

coming right at you. You have given your

1:45:38

life to make this thing with this relevant

1:45:41

idea. And it's

1:45:43

our world's better for it, bro. So proud to

1:45:45

know you. Love you. Appreciate you. Thanks for letting

1:45:48

me come on.