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2:04

Hello and welcome to Group Chat.

2:06

I am Justin Barriere and joining

2:08

me as always, Big Was, and

2:11

joining us from the balcony in

2:13

the Boston Garden, hanging out

2:15

with all the jerseys of the former Plumbers

2:17

Pass. Rob Mahoney, what's up, Rob? You

2:20

know, it's great to not be in the bowels for once.

2:22

I don't know what the opposite of the bowels are. I

2:24

guess it's the balcony, but you're right. I'm up here with

2:26

all the banners. I'm up here with illustrious Boston Celtics history

2:29

on a night where I guess they're now two

2:31

wins away from a potential banner number 18. So

2:33

a lot going on here at TD Garden. Do

2:36

you feel the history just coursing through you?

2:39

You know, all the greats, all the beautiful

2:41

chess passes that have gone by right where

2:43

you were. You know,

2:46

there's a lot of, there's a lot of Bruin

2:48

stuff up here. Are we acknowledging, is this a

2:50

podcast that acknowledges Bruin supremacy? I

2:52

don't know. These arenas that are dual purpose. I

2:55

have a hard time wrapping my arms around all

2:57

of the history involved, but yeah, let's, let's do

2:59

a little salute to the hockey players. Let's do

3:01

a little salute to the Plumbers Pass and

3:04

maybe most importantly, a big salute to the fact that

3:06

the Celtics are looking pretty freaking good on the NBA

3:08

final stage right now. That's

3:10

right. So Celtics go up 2-0 in

3:12

a night where they shot God awful,

3:14

I have to say. So they finished

3:16

10 for 39 Woz from three point

3:18

land, but really didn't matter. It

3:20

seemed like they just had a little bit of

3:22

everything in between to make this game work for

3:25

them. So for me, this

3:27

was actually a lot more impressive

3:29

than game one was because Boston

3:31

got out of their clean lanes,

3:33

clean shots, clean looks, just like

3:36

they're perfect basically game plan, right?

3:39

When you think of like a Kyle Shanahan

3:41

or Mike McDaniels or one of these offensive

3:43

coordinator geniuses and how they have like the

3:45

first 20 to 25 plays scripted. That's

3:48

how Boston played the entire game of game

3:50

one. That was not the case here. And

3:54

they won muddy, they won ugly. And

3:56

for me, I got to tip my cap to them, man. This

3:58

is the kind of. play that I've

4:01

always wanted to see out of

4:03

Boston. Their A stuff wasn't working,

4:05

and they went to plant C

4:07

and D time after time. They

4:09

did it quickly, decisively, confidently, and

4:11

were rewarded for doing that, man.

4:14

I got to tip my hat to them

4:16

for this game, too. Not just on offense,

4:18

they found a way, right? Like you said,

4:20

the shots weren't falling. So what they did

4:22

was they put their head down, went to

4:25

the basket, and they found open guys and

4:27

made the extra pass. But on defense, they

4:29

were just gritty as hell, like straight

4:31

up dirt under the fingernails, you

4:33

know what I mean? Like floor-slapping

4:35

ass defense that they played this

4:37

entire game. And this was quite,

4:40

quite impressive by them. Yeah, the

4:42

defense was awesome. I thought the offensive process, to

4:44

your point, was really good. Even though the threes

4:46

aren't always falling, even though the spacing is a

4:48

little junked up, as you'll often find in highly

4:51

competitive finals games, Boston had to adapt, and they

4:53

had to change what they were doing. And they

4:55

had to veer into different directions than they're used

4:57

to. And they have so many

4:59

smart, capable, flexible players that they can

5:01

just cut through the seams in those

5:03

situations and come up with huge buckets

5:05

from guys like Drew Holliday, for example,

5:08

where normally they might rely on

5:10

that deluge of three-pointers. Yeah,

5:13

I do think I came into this series

5:15

expecting the Celtics to have an edge because

5:17

of what Woz is kind of referring to

5:19

there. I just thought the logic of what

5:22

the Celtics do was going to be particularly

5:24

difficult. For a heliocentric, everything runs through one

5:26

superstar sort of offense like the Mavs have.

5:28

It's really the most historic offense we've ever

5:31

seen in the NBA against what Luca can

5:33

do to combat that. And obviously, the Celtics

5:35

have done such a good job shutting off

5:37

all the other things that Luca activates around

5:39

him. But I have to say, I think

5:42

this was very much a Derek White, Drew

5:44

Holliday game. We talked so much about the three-pointers.

5:46

We talked so much about Tatum and Brown, and

5:48

we're going to talk about those guys, because it

5:50

seems like we can't get one game without talking

5:53

about the Jason Tatum discourse. But this was very

5:55

much the stabilizers on the roster

5:57

here, because it seems like whenever the Celtics

5:59

do get into these tight situations was, it

6:01

tends to be White and Drew doing the

6:04

little in-between things. And they probably had between

6:06

them like 25 separate plays

6:08

where they just were the connectors, the

6:10

offensive rebounds, the blocks, especially the one

6:12

toward the end there from Derek White.

6:14

They just happened to have all of

6:16

those extra effort plays that they needed.

6:18

Couple of things. One, Drew

6:20

Holliday, game of his life

6:23

damn there tonight where he was just

6:25

perfect. Everything that was

6:27

asked of him, he executed flawlessly,

6:29

not just in his defensive assignments

6:31

one on one, which by the

6:33

way, that sequence where he's ripping

6:35

guys at half court, making threes,

6:37

putting the team up by 14,

6:40

essentially sealed the game for these guys.

6:42

That was incredible shit, like backbreaking shit.

6:44

But the first half where he's making

6:46

a bunch of shots at the end

6:49

of the shot clock, he's making, when

6:51

they make that fifth, sixth extra

6:53

pass of the possession, and he's

6:55

finding it underneath and finishing it

6:58

every single time was incredible. And

7:00

I think Derek White, just

7:02

with the floaters and just like you said,

7:04

being connected and keeping it moving, what

7:08

I didn't expect to see from Boston in

7:10

the series, as I'm looking quite foolish for

7:12

picking against them, these guys are playing desperate.

7:15

They're playing like a team that knows

7:17

what it's like to lose a finals on

7:19

the margins. And they're executing

7:22

their assignments to a T and they're

7:24

not making stupid mistakes. They're not playing

7:26

sloppy. They're playing like a

7:28

championship level team and game two was

7:30

it for me in terms of that.

7:32

Yeah, they're coming up with so many

7:34

of those marginal plays, kind of like

7:36

the chaos of transition, those sorts of

7:38

moments, obviously loose balls, 50-50 situations, but

7:40

you can even see it in these

7:42

cases where their defenders are kind of

7:44

sneaking up behind Luca as he tries to

7:46

push the ball up court. And

7:49

on the other side of it, the Mavs

7:51

are basically doing everything they can to cut

7:53

corners for Luca so that he doesn't have

7:55

to do everything possible. They're having Derek Jones

7:57

bring the ball up, Maxi Kleba bring the

7:59

ball up, PJ White, Washington bring the ball

8:01

up anyone just to like save Luca a couple

8:03

of seconds of having to handle this thing because

8:05

Justin you're right like the heliocentrism of the Mavs

8:07

is very apparent and it's very apparent because of

8:10

the way They're being guarded like Dallas Ideally would

8:12

love to get their pick and roll with some

8:14

momentum and get you know The lobs and the

8:16

kicks to the corner But you

8:18

can't do that against this Boston team with the

8:20

way that they're guarding right now And that's as

8:23

much schematic as it is these guys executing at

8:25

a super high level, right? What did the arena

8:27

sound like when the Derek white Jalen Brown double

8:29

block? Happened that that was basically the play of

8:31

the game It was

8:33

incredible. I like the crowd has been great.

8:36

Obviously you hear the Kyrie sucks chance You

8:38

hear the usual stuff you would expect from

8:40

the garden But yeah, there's just a feeding

8:42

frenzy here every time Jalen Brown in particular

8:45

Soars in for some huge block and Derek white one of

8:47

the best shot blocking guards in the league Just

8:50

wrecked Kyrie shit in the middle of this

8:52

game came up with some huge blocks huge

8:54

defensive plays That's how you

8:56

win That's how you win against a matchup like this

8:59

you you muck things up as much as you can

9:01

Against the best player on the court in Luca

9:03

and then you scramble and you help each other

9:05

and you rotate and they just have Such a

9:08

tight defensive game plan right now that I think

9:10

it's it's hard to almost Conceptualize

9:12

how the mads are gonna break through

9:14

unless they get something dramatically different from

9:16

Kyrie Irving Yeah was I kind

9:18

of think that is where we should bring the

9:20

discussion point because Luca was ostensibly

9:22

hobbled So in addition to all the other

9:25

stuff he had coming into the finals He

9:27

now has what was it a chest contusion

9:29

that he was getting wrapped up like a

9:31

mummy pretty much whenever he was off the

9:33

court He seemed to be

9:35

laboring at times But overall when he

9:37

was in the flow of things didn't seem all that

9:39

different He ended with a 32 point

9:41

triple double with four steals thought his hands were

9:43

particularly good on defense night even though he wasn't

9:45

really moving but Wads, what

9:48

where's the rest of the team in Kyrie

9:50

in particular? So what Boston is doing which

9:52

I think is the smart thing to do

9:54

I think we even predicted it in the

9:57

preview show was they're just switching everything one

10:00

and staying home on the shooters.

10:02

They're like, look, Luca, Kyrie, beat

10:05

us one-on-one. Luca, you saw a couple of times

10:07

in the second half, Christaphs was in a drop,

10:09

a couple of times they blitzed him. A couple

10:12

of times, Luca was able to get

10:14

them out of their base defense, and

10:17

they got some nice opportunities out of that.

10:19

Kyrie has not been able to do that.

10:21

They've been satisfied with guarding him one-on-one, guarding

10:24

him with two guys and pick and roll

10:26

when they don't switch and just being like,

10:28

yo, everything's going to be completely fine, staying

10:31

home on everybody else. And

10:33

look, Luca in

10:35

spurts is getting them to

10:37

change their defense. Kyrie's not getting them

10:39

to do anything. And if

10:42

that's going to be the case, if Kyrie's

10:44

not going to make them pay, make them

10:47

cheat a little bit off of one of

10:49

the shooters or cheat a little bit off

10:51

of the big men to give help on

10:53

what Kyrie's doing, Dallas' offense is going to

10:55

have a hard time. Like, Kyrie's made his

10:57

name in this league as being an ace

11:00

level, one-on-one, shot creator,

11:02

shot maker, tough shot generator.

11:05

And in two games, he has not

11:07

looked like an ace level guy in

11:09

that respect. And I think you see

11:11

Dallas' offense lagging because of it. Yeah,

11:13

you see him at some of those

11:15

Kyrie shots, kind of tough pull-ups among

11:18

multiple defenders, but man, does he

11:20

have to work for him. He don't look comfortable, Rob. He

11:22

doesn't look comfortable. He looks rushed. His

11:24

handle looks sloppier than usual. And

11:27

you're right that Dallas, like, Luca in particular,

11:30

is making the Celtics adjust their defense. You're

11:32

seeing a lot of the switching you described.

11:34

We also saw, you know, Christoph Sworzingis trying

11:36

to push up and trap Luca a little

11:38

bit more. But I thought really

11:40

the difference in this game from Dallas' perspective was

11:42

there was kind of a philosophical change from game

11:45

one. Game one, they were hunting specific defensive targets

11:47

and trying to get the bigs to come up

11:49

in the pick and roll. And the only way

11:51

to do that because of the way that Boston

11:53

is cross-matching is like, okay, Derrick Jones has to

11:55

come set the screen now, or P.J. Washington has

11:57

to come set the screen now. It's

11:59

not really... Dallas

20:00

does a damn good job

20:03

of scrambling. Kyrie gets to the

20:05

corner, fucking fouls the guy. Perfect

20:09

rotation, gets it all done, actually

20:11

is there for the contest. Foul's

20:13

the dude, sends him to the

20:15

line after a perfect defensive, basically

20:17

a perfect defensive possession. Boss is

20:19

not doing none of that. Like

20:22

they're actually doing it right on every

20:24

single play. And I have to think,

20:27

you know, getting humbled like that

20:29

in 2022, like makes

20:31

you hungry and makes you not take these

20:33

possessions for granted. Like Dallas, like this sloppiness

20:35

just looks like a team that's just like,

20:37

oh, we're in the finals, it's fine. Like

20:40

we'll probably come back or we'll probably be

20:42

here next year. Or like they're playing like

20:44

that, you know, Blase team and Boston is

20:46

not. Nothing Blase about the way the Celtics

20:48

are playing. You're right that there's a hunger

20:51

there. There's clearly an experience

20:53

there from having been humbled in these series

20:55

before, as you mentioned. There's

20:58

also just like a collective focus that I think is

21:00

at a different level. And it's something different than just

21:02

all out effort. Cause playing hard is one thing. I

21:05

do think the Mavs are playing hard. I do think

21:07

they're playing desperate in a lot of ways, but

21:09

desperate in a bad way. They're on kind of

21:11

the wrong side of that coin where they feel

21:13

like they're flailing a little bit through some of

21:16

these possessions, where everything the Boston's doing, even

21:18

when they are turning the ball over, even when they're

21:20

going through these stretches where they're missing threes, you can

21:22

see the method, right? You can see the underlying theory

21:24

to the way that they're playing. And it all makes

21:27

sense. And some of that is just because they have

21:29

more cards in this series than the Mavs do. And

21:31

so they will always have the luxury of being able

21:33

to kind of make the next Trump and the next

21:35

play. But it's very evident.

21:37

It's very evident in the way that these

21:39

games unfold, who was in command and who

21:42

was actually dictating the terms and who was

21:44

responding to them. Yeah. And that's where I

21:46

wonder if this is just a pretty bad

21:48

matchup ultimately for Dallas, because I think we've

21:50

seen at times in this playoffs in the

21:52

regular season, where the Celtics almost programmatic way

21:55

of doing things as a way of spinning

21:57

out when tested, right? Whereas like, it seems

21:59

like what- And

24:00

that's concerning. It was a lot of, you

24:02

know, whereas normally in the offense, he's involved

24:04

a lot at the top of the floor,

24:07

he was running straight to the corner. And that's never

24:09

a good sign for a guy's mobility when

24:11

they think that that's the best place that they can contribute

24:13

as a shooter, even though he's obviously a good shooter. I

24:16

just think ultimately, whether

24:18

Porzingis is fully, you know, the game one

24:20

version of himself or not, Dallas

24:23

just is against the ropes in so many

24:25

ways right now. There's the Kyrie stuff we

24:27

talked about. There's the shooters who have been

24:29

neutralized. And one thing Boston's done really well

24:31

is pull PJ Washington and Derek Jones out

24:33

of the corner, make them go above

24:35

the break where they're not as effective, and

24:37

they haven't been able to hit those shots. And then

24:39

there's a huge front court problem for the Mavs,

24:42

where Daniel Gafford has been the best option by

24:44

far, as far as the centers

24:46

Dallas can actually put on the floor, he was

24:48

break even in his minutes in game two. Derek

24:50

Lively is having huge issues, as

24:52

he did against Oklahoma City, frankly, in some

24:55

of those games, where these smaller teams, they

24:57

speed him up, they make him feel a

24:59

little frenetic, his hand, like Boston's hands and

25:01

activity have really bothered him. And

25:04

honestly, Jason Kidd might have to pull the plug

25:06

on Maxi Klaiba right now. Like those are really

25:08

vacant minutes that they're getting from Maxi. And you

25:11

can see how they're like, why

25:13

are they trying it makes

25:15

sense. Like you got to throw some kind of

25:17

smaller look out there with the way that Boston

25:20

plays, especially when your other bigs aren't quite dominating

25:22

in the way you want them to dominate. But

25:25

Maxi hasn't been up to that. By the way, I

25:28

can envision a future where

25:30

Derek Lively or even a

25:32

Daniel Gafford make it

25:35

so that you cannot, your adjustment cannot

25:37

be you put Tatum on the center

25:39

so that when you play this pick and roll,

25:42

you can easily switch that because my

25:44

center is bludgeoning Jason Tatum, who's a

25:47

freaking small forward in the

25:49

post, getting fouls on him, getting good looks,

25:51

because he's pinning him underneath the basket and

25:54

making him pay that way. As a

25:56

rookie, as a young guy, still pretty slender

25:58

guy, hasn't gotten his grown man. way

28:00

to the rim every time. They need the help. And

28:03

so I think what happens if you have to

28:05

replace one of, you know, Porzingis in particular with

28:07

Luke Cornette minutes is you're just buying Dallas' defense.

28:09

A lot of benefit of the doubt, a lot

28:11

of margin for error. They can play exactly they

28:14

want to play every minute that Luke Cornette is

28:16

on the floor. So yeah, I think they would

28:18

probably welcome O'Shea Brissette in a lot of ways

28:20

stylistically to get this series going in the way

28:22

that they want it to go. Is Brissette

28:25

up to this? This isn't

28:28

a good matchup for him either, if you

28:30

ask me. I understand again, like the concept,

28:32

but I could see him getting bullied even

28:34

more so than than we see, you know,

28:36

Jason Tatum getting posted up by Gafford here

28:38

and there. Woz, right

28:40

now, finals MVP. Who's

28:42

atop your rankings? Is it Drew? I think

28:45

it might be Drew. We probably haven't

28:47

talked enough about Drew, given how good he was

28:49

in this game. Yes. After

28:52

two games, the

28:54

numbers, the shooting, like he went 11

28:57

for 14 today. You know what I

28:59

mean? Like this wouldn't be like an

29:01

ego dollar nonsense MVP,

29:03

right? Like he, the impact he's

29:05

having on both ends is crazy.

29:08

It's just for me, like he's not

29:10

creating these chances, man. Like he's not

29:12

doing the heavy lifting of what

29:15

needs to be done for Boston. Like I'd still want

29:17

to see one of the two J's get the MVP

29:20

for me. And this is

29:23

not just my like, you know, just

29:25

my vengeance for the media's fawning of

29:27

Drew Holiday. I just genuinely think those

29:29

guys are doing more than Drew is,

29:31

but Drew has been worth

29:33

his weight in gold. Okay. Like, you know,

29:35

even though his contract is worth more than

29:38

that, I think he's

29:40

just been, he's been excellent. And

29:42

like that first half where

29:44

if he's not that good, I

29:46

think Dallas is up by like

29:48

eight, seven, nine, going into halftime

29:50

and feeling comfortable, feeling pumped up.

29:52

The crowd is like nervous, but

29:54

because he's so great, they

29:57

end up going into halftime up three, man.

29:59

And it's because of the team. the effort.

30:01

Yeah, it's so interesting to think about him

30:03

as a finals MVP candidate because you're right

30:05

was that he's not driving the action. If

30:07

anything, I bet if we want to look

30:09

at the data when it comes out, like the tracking data

30:11

from this game, it could be

30:13

like a Clay Thompson type, like sick.

30:15

He took six dribbles in this game

30:18

overall kind of performance. And yet he

30:20

ended up completely dominating without ever controlling

30:22

the ball. He

30:24

led the co led this game in rebounds

30:26

with 11. He finished every damn thing around

30:29

the basket on shots that he didn't create

30:31

as a passer, but created as a cutter

30:33

and made himself available and was able to

30:35

get behind the Dallas defense or wedge himself

30:37

between defenders in order to create

30:39

scoring opportunities in a different way. And is that

30:42

the kind of thing that we

30:44

should reward with the finals MVP? Or should

30:46

we reward the guys who are making those

30:48

plays as passers and who are drawing the

30:50

doubles or drawing the attention in the first

30:52

place? I think that's a fair conversation to

30:54

have. And Drew's been good enough to kind

30:56

of force that conversation on us. Well, quote,

30:58

Jalen Brown, true holiday has been an example

31:00

of excellence. Wow. So

31:03

there you go. He's right. He's

31:06

right. I would still put

31:08

Jalen Brown as like the odds leader as

31:10

if you listen to our ad read going into

31:12

the playoffs, you would know that we picked Jalen

31:15

Brown. Thanks. He means

31:17

he y'all just pick Jalen Brown.

31:19

So actually Rob picked this one.

31:21

Oh, one time Rob

31:23

would indulge the bad man. I should have known something

31:25

was up when you didn't pat yourself on the back. Nobody

31:29

else is going to do it. You motherfuckers are not.

31:32

No, that's definitely not true. That's for goddamn

31:34

sure. Anything

31:37

else, Rob? Any sights and sounds from Boston?

31:39

Did I see? What did you think about

31:41

Paul Pierce's outfit? I thought he looked like

31:43

a complete doofus on TV. I

31:47

don't know if I'm qualified to judge that. Like

31:49

a flavor flavor chain? Weird chain on. It's a

31:51

chain really. It's not what's wrong with what he

31:53

was wearing. It's just a chain. I'm just like,

31:56

Jesus Christ. Look at me. Louie energy is killing

31:58

me. Could I pull that? Should I get one

32:00

for the live show, you think? Why

32:02

not? Let's do it. I

32:04

have to say, we got too many, like

32:06

when Paul Pierce has shown, everyone

32:10

is cheering truth in a way

32:12

that, categorically in a Simpsons-esque way,

32:14

sounds like booing. They

32:16

also do it for Drew. It's just

32:18

a lot, we got too many guys in the building

32:20

who are Celtics or Celtics legends who, it sounds like

32:23

you're booing because you're doing some weird thing with it.

32:25

I think we should just do a little less, frankly.

32:29

I have no real, look, let Paul Pierce cook. If that's what

32:31

he wants to wear in his moment of

32:33

glory as a returning Celtics legend, I would never

32:36

begrudge him that. Did I

32:38

see that they're serving lobster in the

32:41

press hall? I think that, that pissed me

32:43

the hell off. Which,

32:45

first of all, that's a choice. Second of

32:47

all, I don't know if I'm eating press

32:49

room lobster at any event. Justin, stop it.

32:52

You know what? I'm not doing

32:54

that. It was, it was

32:56

legit. It's

32:58

Massachusetts. Cracking lobsters?

33:01

Oh yeah, we were cracking them on the press

33:03

table. I think they said they cooked 600

33:05

lobsters for the attending media.

33:08

Good God. There were just, even as we were

33:10

leaving, there were just piles of lobsters there for you

33:12

to just go scoop up if you wanted to bring

33:14

one to your seat in a gnaw and a claw

33:16

over the course of the game. That was available to

33:18

you. But this has become a bit of a

33:20

Celtics tradition. I think they did it again in

33:22

2022. And

33:25

so look, if they're gonna be a dynasty and be

33:27

in the finals every year, from a media

33:29

dining perspective, I'm not gonna be mad about it. Your

33:32

move, Steve Ballmer. So

33:35

they don't want us in the locker room, but they

33:37

do wanna stuff you full of lobster. Well,

33:40

look. Oh, are they still doing that for

33:42

the finals? It's a tiered locker room system?

33:45

Yeah, it is tiered. A lot of second-class

33:47

citizens out here. Among us, you

33:49

know, we have several ringer. That's

33:51

rude. I'm just saying. We

33:54

got a lot of, we got some ringer

33:56

staff in attendance. You know, Michael Pina's here,

33:58

Howard Beck's here. Bill is obviously here. Ryan Rossello

34:00

I saw poking around pregame. So

34:02

we got to pick and choose a little bit, who

34:04

is entitled to tier one access. And let's just say

34:07

tonight I drew the short straw y'all. I don't have

34:09

tier one access. That's why I'm up

34:11

here with you guys doing this podcast. And I don't even

34:13

get to hang out in the locker room and see actually

34:15

what's going on. Adam Silver, you

34:17

did your thing with that media rights deal.

34:20

Get the media back in the locker room, okay?

34:22

Do your real job. Thank you. Next

34:25

year, group chat live from the floor.

34:27

We're gonna be stomping on unlucky ourselves.

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38:40

before we go here, we need to talk

38:42

about the other story kind of permeating, I

38:44

guess, the NBA Finals. It

38:48

sounds like our guy Dan Hurley, or I

38:50

should say my guy, Dan Hurley, is in

38:52

the running for the Los

38:54

Angeles Lakers coaching job. I

38:58

think this one is hard to talk about

39:01

without talking about how the story came up,

39:03

because for a long time now, I would

39:05

say weeks at this point, we thought JJ

39:08

Rettich was a shoo-in to get that job.

39:10

And then all of a sudden ESPN Adrian

39:12

Wojnowski in particular reports Hurley has been at

39:14

the forefront of the Lakers search

39:16

since the beginning of the process, which was, I

39:19

have to say, is a little perplexing to me

39:21

because how do you get

39:23

to the forefront of a search but don't

39:25

get a formal job interview? And it's not

39:27

like Hurley's been doing anything. I know most

39:29

people aren't following college basketball these days, but

39:31

just to give you a little insight, the

39:34

transfer portal closed on the 1st of May.

39:37

Darvin Ham was fired on the 3rd. So

39:39

Hurley's just kind of been hanging out here.

39:41

And so I have to start wondering, my

39:43

conspiracy theory brain is kind of churning here.

39:45

Is it similar for you? It's

39:48

almost as if that sport,

39:50

college basketball in particular, has

39:54

a deep history of

39:57

coaches taking interviews to... force

40:00

raises from their institution.

40:03

I've seen this movie before.

40:07

And obviously we know the freaking

40:09

source, the media, the

40:12

freaking news breaker who's doing it clearly

40:14

has a great relationship

40:16

with Dan Hurley. It's

40:18

no secret. Like that's not a secret

40:20

within our industry. Clearly there's

40:23

an agenda of

40:25

jacking up his price, which God bless

40:27

him. He just dominated one, two straight

40:30

championships. Justin and his

40:32

alumni base, they might need to step

40:34

up the boosters. Justin is making good

40:36

money. Maybe he could contribute to the

40:38

next Dan Hurley contract. Yeah. How much

40:40

are you willing to chip into the

40:42

GoFundMe Justin? $10 tops. Okay. Well

40:46

note it. Look,

40:48

what I'm trying to say kids is like all

40:50

of this hype that went into this freaking interview.

40:52

The fact that he didn't come out of that

40:55

with the Lakers job to

40:57

me implies that

41:00

this is a hustle. This is a ski mask

41:03

and a gun. You can't pay up. I

41:05

don't actually want this freaking job. That's what

41:07

it feels like to me. I'm doing it

41:09

with the help of my friends in

41:11

the media. And that's what it

41:13

looks like. Maybe I'm wrong. Tell me I'm wrong guys

41:15

and what I'm missing here. I would

41:17

not tell you you're wrong. I would only

41:19

say this is the kind of thing that

41:21

can be circumstantially beneficial for a lot of

41:24

the parties involved. If you're the Lakers, for

41:26

example, you've had this

41:28

kind of charade of a coaching search. At

41:30

least that's the way it's been reported so

41:32

far. Well, JJ Riddick has been the clear

41:34

favorite, the presumptive nominee as we like to

41:36

say, it was just

41:38

a matter of time and a matter of negotiating. The

41:41

fact that this report is coming up makes me think

41:43

or at least makes me wonder, maybe

41:45

those negotiations didn't quite go the way

41:47

the Lakers wanted. Maybe JJ Riddick was

41:49

asking for something that they didn't quite

41:52

want to give him. And so they

41:54

enter an alternative. Dan Hurley, respected coach,

41:56

someone LeBron is already on the record

41:58

praising over the I

44:00

didn't think I was going to start speaking French on

44:02

this show. Yeah,

44:04

I'll be honest, I don't know. Sorry, Justin. You're

44:07

a Yukon guy. Are you scared

44:09

that Dan Hurley's gone? I

44:11

am scared, if only because I put

44:13

days, if not weeks of effort into

44:16

reprising my Yukon fandom and I don't

44:18

want to lose that equity that I

44:20

built back up. I'm ready to hit

44:22

the ground running. I'm out here texting

44:25

Kyle Mann, just shit-talking him about recruits

44:27

that I don't know a fucking thing

44:29

about. Frankly, I don't want to

44:31

lose that because that's become a big part of my

44:33

social life. But

44:35

yeah, I mean, obviously, to stop short of going

44:38

for a third straight when I think they actually

44:40

have a pretty good opportunity to do so. I

44:42

don't know how much of the transfer portal you

44:44

guys have been tracking here, but they actually did

44:47

a really good job of reloading after losing a

44:49

couple guys to the draft, including probably two lottery

44:51

picks. For that part

44:53

of it, I would like Hurley to

44:55

stick around. I do think it's pretty

44:57

telling about where the Lakers are probably

45:00

in the search process. I think there

45:02

are two theories that could be the

45:04

reason why we're getting this. We're recording

45:06

this on Sunday. Maybe by Monday he's taking

45:08

the job and all of a sudden he's

45:10

just going down Figueroa, just in the back

45:12

of an Escalade. Who knows? What

45:14

is this? What is this? What is

45:16

this? 2005 Nelly video?

45:18

Yeah, I don't know. He

45:21

wishes. JJ

45:23

said no would be the one theory

45:26

that something broke down in the

45:28

process. Either JJ didn't want it or they

45:30

decided to back out. I like Rob's idea

45:32

about the contract negotiations

45:34

getting sticky and then the Lakers

45:36

are trying to save face before

45:38

that got out and jumped

45:40

the process and wanted to do a big splashy

45:43

hire. I think the more likely

45:45

scenario is what Rob is saying, that they

45:47

either need to slow play the negotiations, maybe

45:49

to help out ESPN if they're just in

45:51

negotiations for the TV contract and they don't

45:53

want to rip away another guy from the

45:55

finals and turn the finals into the JJ

45:57

goes to the Lakers whole thing. So

48:01

she does not get killed in public.

48:03

She sucks. She's a sucky owner and

48:05

Robyn Lincoln is not proving himself to

48:07

be some great GM. So why would

48:09

you want to attach yourself to that?

48:12

If you're Dan Hurley, I

48:14

just think that, that bears mentioning. I

48:16

will say this in the Lakers defense, which

48:20

let's just stop there and say that I'm

48:22

really like digging within myself to get to

48:24

this point. I think there's like a kernel

48:26

of logic to what they're doing with the

48:28

coaching church, both with JJ and maybe Hurley,

48:30

depending on how real this actually is, where

48:32

it's like, oh, we need to be more

48:34

conscious about developing guys. I do think like

48:36

with the new CBA, I think people do

48:38

need to be more mindful of the process

48:40

of building a pipeline from the G league

48:42

and up. And clearly we're getting more and

48:44

more two-way spots. And so that's going to

48:46

matter more. And the NBA was invested for

48:48

instance, more in the G league being a thing

48:50

with Ignite. And so I can't see

48:52

that being less of a thing going forward. And

48:55

so like, yeah, I think for a

48:57

different organization, like the Hornets, for instance,

49:00

getting someone like that, that could do

49:02

better player development would be great. Right?

49:05

The funny thing about this is I actually

49:08

don't think the Lakers developmental system has been

49:10

that bad of late. It's that they traded

49:12

all of them for fucking Russell Westbrook and

49:14

Anthony Davis, which is the whole problem with

49:16

getting a guy like Dan Hurley in there.

49:18

You have the market muscle to play at

49:20

the big boy table. And as

49:22

much as you want to talk about Rui

49:24

Hachimura and Austin Reeves, and we're going to

49:26

develop a system, you're not fucking going to

49:28

do that because you always want to play

49:31

the star game. It's happened for decades since

49:33

back to your dad kind of pioneered it.

49:35

So like, let's stop pretending that you are

49:37

the Cleveland Cavaliers and

49:39

you need to build like

49:41

a JV team. What you need to do

49:44

is play like a big market team. Like

49:46

for instance, the Los Angeles Clippers who are

49:48

paying a gobs of money in order to

49:50

play on that level. That's all. That

49:53

was another thing too, when

49:55

I smell bullshit since when do the

49:57

Lakers pay people that

49:59

like quiet. is kept there. One of

50:01

the cheaper, cheapest organization and

50:04

you know people don't understand this.

50:07

It's one of the last mom

50:09

and pop operations in the NBA

50:11

where the bus family is like

50:13

eight kids. That's their income. The

50:18

money generated by the Los

50:20

Angeles Lakers is their income.

50:22

It's not Balmer. It's not

50:24

somebody's hedge fund, private equity

50:26

guys. It's not, you know,

50:28

an Russian oligarch like Brokawroff

50:30

or a Chinese oligarch like

50:33

the guy that replaced him who's just

50:35

got gobs of money on his own

50:37

from his other business ventures. The bus

50:40

like, the more they pay their coach,

50:42

the less the bus family gets paid

50:44

out. Like people don't

50:46

realize that. And that's another thing I was like,

50:48

oh, they're just going to

50:51

offer gobs of money to Dan

50:53

Hurley. Really? The Lakers are

50:55

paying people now. So

50:57

like this whole thing just seems ridiculous

50:59

to me. This is effectively the reason

51:01

that Tai Lu is not the coach

51:03

of the Lakers right now is because

51:06

they tried to play that game with him in

51:08

negotiations. I just think, I think

51:10

the most damning part of all of this, this whole

51:13

process when the

51:15

wrinkles started coming out in the reports surrounding

51:17

the Lakers coaching search that actually

51:19

the Lakers have had a new thought. Maybe

51:22

they need a long-term coach.

51:24

Maybe they need a long-term

51:26

process with an eye to

51:29

the future. Which by the

51:31

way, nobody sets out

51:33

to hire a coach for 10,

51:35

20 years. It just happens because

51:38

they're a good coach, right?

51:40

Like, he weren't like, hey, Eric Spolstra, we're going

51:43

to sign you for 20 years. You're never going

51:45

to go anyway. He just did a good job and

51:47

then kept doing a good job and then kept

51:49

doing a good job. So he stayed on. And

51:51

like you could maybe argue smaller market teams,

51:53

for instance, have more of an incentive to

51:56

want to keep coaches. Because then they have

51:58

to pay two coaches simultaneously. but as

52:00

you guys are outlined, the Lakers kind

52:02

of operate in some senses like a smaller

52:04

market team. Although maybe if we're just

52:07

thinking like with the with the whole cork board

52:09

here, maybe the fact that they might pay for

52:11

coaches reasons to suggest that LeBron is coming back

52:13

and the cash train keeps coming. So I

52:15

don't know. More intrigue to the off

52:17

season, more like

52:20

great pod topics for Justin to cook

52:22

up. More stuff like you don't like

52:24

this. More stuff to talk about

52:26

at the live show. No, I love it. I

52:29

appreciate your contributions to the show, Justin,

52:31

even if I don't always tell you,

52:33

man. Thank you. I, you

52:36

say that in a way that I don't totally believe you. I'm

52:41

serious. I appreciate you. Well,

52:44

thank you. Never heard that from you. I

52:46

mean, I'd rather talk about the Bureau to

52:48

be honest with you. The Bureau is good,

52:50

man. It's good. Look, nope, there's like 3%

52:53

of English in that thing, but

52:55

it is. It's the real

52:57

spy shit. The

53:00

nitty gritty. The Bureau is

53:02

the grinding tape of spy shows. Right.

53:04

It's for the real head. It's for

53:06

the real sickos. That's perfect. Yes. I

53:12

only made it through a few episodes. I'll be honest. I tried

53:14

it, but Chris. So Chris Ryan

53:16

recommended it to me and

53:18

he said this show might as well be the Sopranos

53:21

for me. And

53:25

I believed him. All right.

53:28

Why don't we wrap it there? We'll be

53:30

back Wednesday. I believe we have a game

53:32

Wednesday night. So you'll hear us yet again.

53:34

Sir live in your ears right off the

53:37

game night. So, um, and then

53:39

after that we got, we got live show

53:41

action. Rob's going to be in town. Just

53:44

taking them down. Figaro with the top down. We'll

53:46

see what happens. Does

53:49

the top down go down on your car? Not

53:52

yet. You know, maybe we can, maybe we

53:54

can get the budget going like rent a Cadillac for you. That

53:57

seems expensive. I

54:00

don't even think we need approval for it. If

54:02

Woz expenses it, yeah, we definitely could do that. Easy,

54:05

killer, easy, killer. Thank

54:09

you to Isaiah Blakely. Thank you to Eddie Ocampo.

54:11

Thank you to Ben Cruz. Thank you to Tucker

54:13

Tash, Jin. I'm sure there's nine

54:16

other producers on this call. We can thank as

54:18

well. But we'll be back on Wednesday. We'll see

54:20

you then. Bye. MUSIC

54:42

Must be 21 plus and 18 plus

54:45

in DC and present in select states.

54:47

FanDuel is offering online sports wagering in

54:49

Kansas under an agreement with Kansas Star

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Casino LLC. Gambling problem? Call

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1-800-GAMBLER or visit fanduel.com/RG in

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Colorado. Virginia

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and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP

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to 53342 in Arizona 1-888-789-7777 1-888-789-7777

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or visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut. or

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visit ccpg.org/chat in Connecticut 1-800-9WITH-IT

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in Indiana 1-800-789-7777. 1-800-522-4700

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or visit ksgamblinghelp.com in Kansas. 1-877-770-STOP

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in Louisiana. Visit

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mdgamblinghelp.org in Maryland. Visit 1-800-gambler.net

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in West Virginia or call

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1-800-522-4700 in Wyoming. Hope

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is here. Visit gamblinghelplinema.org or

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call 800-327-5050 for

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24-7 support in Massachusetts or

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call 1-877-HOPE-NY or text HOPE-NY

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in New York.