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2023. Campari America, New York, New

1:56

York. Hello

2:02

and welcome to

2:04

group chat. I

2:07

am Justin Varyer

2:09

and joining me

2:12

as always, Rob

2:15

Mahoney, big waz. We

2:17

are here on what is it, day four

2:19

of NBA free agency. Do we

2:22

count Sunday as a full day? If

2:24

anything, this just feels like we're pretty

2:26

much over at this point, Rob, which is a very

2:28

strange feeling at this point. Especially

2:30

when day one got off to such a

2:32

slow start, but turns out days two and

2:34

three and even into the morning here of

2:36

day four have been quite active. Also

2:40

it still feels strange to be doing free

2:42

agency news, not from Vegas, right? Like, because

2:44

that used to be the thing, like it

2:46

was happening concurrent with the beginning

2:48

of NBA summer league and now summer league gets

2:51

to be its own entity and

2:53

free agency. Also,

2:56

free agency being wrapped up by the fourth.

2:58

Remember when NBA parties used to complain about

3:00

having to work, you know, look

3:03

at their phones and scarf hot dogs

3:05

at the same time? Waz, why

3:07

would you say this out loud? All

3:09

the shit is going to go down. You just

3:12

jinxed us on two fronts. We were hoping to

3:14

have a peaceful, enjoyable summer league and now we're

3:16

not because something ridiculous is going to happen and

3:18

now I can't even enjoy my July 4th because

3:21

you just jinx the hell out of this thing.

3:23

Right. I was going to

3:25

say reporters still complain about July 4th and

3:27

if nothing happens on this July 4th, they

3:29

will complain about the last time they had

3:31

to work on July 4th. That's

3:33

just how this works. That is fair. That is fair.

3:37

But yeah, it's been an interesting off

3:40

season thus far. Obviously

3:42

the period where teams were allowed to negotiate

3:45

with their own free agents kind of took a

3:47

lot of stuff off the board here, but I'm

3:50

in the place now where enough has happened where

3:52

I think it's fair to start wondering about certain

3:54

teams that are having pretty perplexing off seasons. So

3:57

I want to first kick it off here with a

3:59

bunch of teams. that I'm calling the, what's

4:02

going on here, teams? I

4:04

really workshopped this and came up with a very

4:06

creative solution here. But there's a lot of teams

4:08

where I'm like, what's going

4:10

on here? And so that's what the bit is. Isn't

4:13

that true of most teams? Aren't you kind of

4:15

looking at most teams sideways and going, we

4:18

sure about that? What's going on

4:20

there? How are you approaching

4:22

the apron? There's a lot of

4:24

curiosity going around. I'll put it that way. Yes.

4:28

And I think maybe some of it could be

4:30

because of the apron. Maybe we're just not used

4:33

to the rhythms of when and how these things

4:35

are going to happen. But yeah,

4:37

there's just a lot of perplexion, I would

4:39

say, out there. Is perplexion a word? I

4:41

don't think so. But we're going to give

4:44

it to you. Perplexity? All

4:48

right. Well, we got to start with the Lakers, first

4:50

and foremost, who, before we came on here, signed

4:53

LeBron James to a two-year

4:55

maximum contract. He did

4:57

not get any of his preferred mid-level

5:00

exception candidates. Once Jonas Valanchunas was

5:02

off the board, he decided to

5:04

take the money, it seems like.

5:07

So two years, $104 million. Got

5:10

a player option there. So it is a

5:12

typical LeBron 1 plus 1 throwback. He got

5:14

a no-trade clause on top of that. And

5:16

so we got a lot of beautiful

5:19

social graphics suggesting that the only

5:21

two players in the NBA right

5:23

now with no-trade clauses, LeBron James

5:25

and Bradley Beal. Of course.

5:28

Which is, I guess, pretty appropriate considering that

5:30

LeBron James, one of the foremost players in

5:33

the NBA, and Bradley Beal, the shining example

5:35

of probably the second apron and all the

5:37

other consternation to come up

5:39

with. Max contracts, all

5:41

of that stuff. He is the shining

5:44

example of some of the quirks

5:47

of how we pay people in the NBA.

5:50

He is a shining example of a guy in

5:52

the NBA, that's for sure. That's

5:55

true. So as it

5:57

stands right now, the Lakers have done

5:59

nothing. except bring back last

6:01

year's team, plus their

6:03

draft picks. I think they also signed

6:06

Max Christie, a guy who's

6:08

done, let's be frank, virtually nothing

6:10

in the NBA. So they've maintained

6:12

the young core, which I

6:14

guess you can call just a grouping of

6:17

young players. I don't know if they're particularly

6:19

good young players, but on

6:21

top of that, Rob, the Lakers as it stands right

6:23

now when we're recording this at 9 43 Pacific time,

6:25

AM, are

6:28

about a million dollars into the

6:30

second apron. So I have

6:33

to ask, what's going

6:35

on here with the Lakers? I

6:37

think they're more or less running it back, to be

6:39

honest with you. The one variable there is

6:42

what happens with D'Angelo Russell, who

6:44

there've been reports suggesting he

6:46

may not be long for the Lakers, that there

6:48

are some trade possibilities that the team might explore.

6:51

I'm looking around the league and trying to figure

6:53

out what those destinations are and not seeing a

6:55

lot of obvious candidates, especially when you think about

6:58

what would actually allow the Lakers to

7:01

shed salary while trading D'Angelo Russell. That's

7:03

a tough combination to find, much less

7:05

teams that are just champing at the

7:07

bit to get D'Lo on their roster.

7:10

Otherwise, I kind of think this is what you got. And

7:13

LeBron signing for the two year max or the one

7:15

plus one max takes the full mid level

7:17

off the table. As

7:20

you said, Jonas was gone, but

7:22

beyond that, as we talked about in the last pod,

7:24

there's just like a limited number of actual needle movers

7:26

for the Lakers in the first place with that slot.

7:29

And so this is what you end up with, more or less the

7:31

same team. Reasonable people, AKA

7:33

me and you can disagree as to

7:35

Max Christie's merits. I actually like that

7:38

signing, like them bring him back. Think

7:40

he's gonna be a good player. But otherwise,

7:42

I think they're counting on JJ

7:45

Rettick to clean some stuff up, to get some of

7:47

the low hanging fruit to make the team a little

7:49

bit better. And otherwise, just kind

7:51

of hoping and praying that AD and LeBron can stay

7:54

as healthy as they did last year, that everything can

7:56

work more or less as well as it did last

7:58

year and go from there. I

8:00

think the only reason we're kind of

8:03

confused by what the Lakers did is

8:05

because every offseason and every trade deadline,

8:07

the media convinces itself that the Lakers

8:09

are going to make a big ass

8:12

move. And it

8:14

has not happened basically since Russell

8:16

Westbrook. And I think

8:18

that's for a reason. I think they learned

8:20

some lessons from the Westbrook situation. And yes,

8:23

they could at the deadline this

8:25

year, again, trade a

8:28

bunch of future picks and make a

8:30

big swing. But the fact that they

8:32

haven't done any of this stuff shows

8:34

what direction they're in. There

8:37

have been reports that they offered more

8:39

money to Klay Thompson than Dallas did.

8:42

Those reports are true. So

8:45

they did legitimately want to try

8:47

to get Klay Thompson in there.

8:49

But even that, you can't consider

8:51

that to be some move that

8:54

makes the Lakers closer to being

8:56

as good as the Thunder, the

8:58

Nuggets, the Wolf. No, nobody thinks

9:00

that. So closer, incrementally closer, if

9:03

not meaningfully closer. Sure, incrementally closer.

9:05

Sure. It's better to have

9:07

Klay Thompson than not to have Klay Thompson. Right.

9:10

In the sense that putting on my sneakers makes

9:12

me almost as tall as Shaq, right? Right.

9:15

It's just not actually

9:17

true. Yeah,

9:20

this is who the Lakers are. They

9:22

had to bring LeBron back, duh. Made

9:25

all the sense in the world to bring

9:27

him back at his number. They couldn't just

9:29

afford to let LeBron just leave over

9:32

a contract. They desperately needed this guy to

9:34

be back. He's still clearly their best player.

9:38

But in terms of the moves they could

9:40

make, they're hamstrung by the fact that their

9:42

best player is 40. Okay.

9:46

And they have no mechanism to make this

9:48

way better than what it is. So they're

9:50

playing out the string of

9:52

the LeBron era. And

9:55

I guess we're just conditioned to think they should

9:57

be trying to win a championship as soon as

9:59

possible. Blah, blah, blah. There's no realistic way of

10:02

making that happen. Like you can take

10:04

a moon shot and mortgage your future,

10:06

but like it would make no sense

10:08

to do so. Yeah,

10:10

I guess I'm perplexed probably

10:12

because they're leaning into the

10:15

youth movement and the developmental track is

10:17

almost as extreme as going the Russell

10:19

Westbrook route is going for the big

10:21

swing trade. Like there isn't some sort

10:23

of like marginal upgrade that they've made

10:25

at this point, which I think would

10:27

be reasonable for instance. Like we talked

10:30

about, hey, maybe trading for like a

10:32

Dorian Finney Smith, et cetera. Like, let's

10:34

just improve on the

10:36

fringes here because I don't think what they

10:38

had last year really worked

10:40

on a level that they at

10:43

least aspire to be. Like, is there some in-between

10:45

move that could still be made that gets us

10:47

to the point because I don't know. I just

10:49

don't think like, I like the Dalton connect pick.

10:51

I like some of the other guys, young guys

10:53

that they have here. Maybe Austin Ruiz plays a

10:55

little bit better next year. Maybe

10:58

Gabe Bison gives them anything. But other than

11:00

that, like there isn't really much to bank

11:02

on. And so I almost wonder if could

11:04

they just like strike a balance somehow as

11:07

opposed to going in either direction full bore.

11:10

I don't even know that they're leaning into

11:12

the young core so much as they're just kind

11:15

of saying that because it's all they've got.

11:18

I don't see it as a philosophical change. I'll put

11:20

it that way. I think they have some

11:22

young players on the roster who they do want to invest in.

11:25

That was more or less the case before. They

11:27

just don't have a lot to offer. That's the issue.

11:29

Like when you're pitching Clay Thompson as a free agent

11:31

and he doesn't want to come play for you, that's

11:34

a problem if you're the Lakers. That is your

11:37

huge market advantage that you've been able to mine

11:39

time and time again. And not only are we

11:41

seeing that, they've been pitching veteran

11:44

head coaches to come be on JJ Redick staff and

11:46

been getting turned down. There are lots of people who

11:48

are just kind of like looking at

11:50

the Lakers situation and thinking, you

11:53

know what, maybe not for me. I'm gonna leave that

11:55

over to the side. I'm gonna let them do

11:57

their thing and I'm gonna respectfully take this job

11:59

in media. or go play for the Dallas Mavericks,

12:01

or do whatever it is that they want to

12:03

do that doesn't come with some of the noise

12:06

and some of the pressures that comes with both

12:08

being a Laker and with being LeBron James' teammate.

12:10

By the way, just

12:12

so people understand, right? The

12:15

Lakers, there were signing trades out

12:17

there to get done. You

12:19

know, DeMar DeRozan, say, as an example.

12:23

And, you know, they would have been hard-capped or whatever.

12:25

They would have had to move some salary. They would

12:27

have had to do work of

12:29

managing a roster. But they would have had

12:32

to do that. Like, doing that would

12:35

take, like, actually believing in

12:38

those moves as things you absolutely need

12:40

to do. And

12:43

clearly, all the parties involved

12:45

don't feel that way. No matter what LeBron

12:48

is saying publicly

12:50

about, he lets it leak,

12:52

like, his list of people that he's going

12:54

to take a pay cut for and blah,

12:56

blah, blah, blah. But the bottom line is

12:58

LeBron really wanted something done

13:01

outside of the clay thing, which we can get

13:03

back into with the clay. But,

13:05

like, if he really wanted something done in terms

13:07

of Jonas Valanchoon as being on the team, the

13:09

Lakers could have got it done. OK?

13:13

Obviously, they can compete with the Wizards? Right.

13:17

Obviously, you know,

13:19

LeBron seems to be using

13:21

his influence in the organization

13:23

in other directions. And

13:27

I think that's connected to why maybe a

13:29

Clay Thompson turns down more money, why

13:32

big coaches don't want to come. You know,

13:34

big name coaches don't want to come and

13:36

be assistants to this thing. It

13:39

just seems like their priorities are in

13:41

other directions that aren't like, yo, let's

13:43

be as good as possible to win

13:46

as many games as possible during

13:48

next season. Yeah. Maybe the writing's just

13:50

on the wall, because the signs are

13:52

pretty bad. The fact that LeBron didn't

13:55

even seem like he had anywhere that

13:57

made sense to go to, it wasn't

13:59

like. like there was just like all these other

14:01

suitors that he's turning down here. It

14:04

wasn't even like a typical like frothing at

14:06

the mouth sort of LeBron free agency where

14:08

it's like, everyone was almost tired with the

14:10

whole song and dance to when he opted

14:12

out or even threatened free agency earlier in

14:15

the summer. Everyone's like, eh. And

14:18

now it's just like none of the

14:20

options that he even wanted didn't seem

14:22

like they were realistic options. It just

14:25

almost feels like this

14:27

is getting progressively sadder than I expected

14:29

it to be because I think the

14:31

Lakers are probably better at

14:33

this stage of LeBron's career than it

14:36

would be for any other approximate Hall

14:38

of Fame caliber guy, right? Like even

14:40

like late career, some of the other

14:43

Hall of Famers that we've known and

14:45

loved Kobe prime example, right? They were

14:47

barely getting by and they were functionally

14:50

soft tanking, but it's

14:52

just, this is just like

14:55

ultimately becoming like a mismatch

14:57

of mid tier veterans and young

14:59

guys and LeBron James. And so

15:02

I'm just having a hard time

15:04

processing like what the Lakers are

15:06

at this moment. See,

15:08

I don't think it's that hard because it's the same thing

15:10

that they've been for two or three years now, which is

15:13

a pretty good ultimately play in

15:15

level team. That's what they

15:17

are and what they're gonna be. And

15:19

also we have to separate what

15:21

the Lakers and LeBron, these are

15:24

two separate entities. Whether

15:26

we like it or not,

15:28

LeBron sees himself as some

15:31

brand business unto itself. And

15:34

I think he's making decisions with

15:37

that in mind, which is not to

15:39

say, bronze not gonna go out there

15:41

and kill himself to win for the

15:43

Lakers next year. He's going to, but

15:46

the bottom line is if

15:49

LeBron was putting winning

15:52

championships and the pursuit of

15:54

championships above everything else, he

15:57

would not be resigning with the Lakers right now.

16:00

He would have forced his way to another

16:02

team. And by the way, he could have

16:04

gotten paid. Like there's ways to do this

16:07

shit. Like we don't have to pretend that,

16:09

yo, the only way a free agent gets

16:11

paid is to move into somebody's cap space.

16:13

There's ways to get, I don't know, Utah

16:16

and all of their cap space involved

16:18

in a signing trade. Get a third

16:21

team involved. There's ways to do all

16:23

of this stuff. LeBron clearly doesn't

16:25

want to do that. He wants to

16:27

be in LA. He wants to

16:29

film his movie, because I know he's doing

16:31

a little last dance thing. He

16:34

can do that anywhere. You can move the

16:37

crew around. He's had camera crews

16:39

following him for three years. He wants

16:41

to make sure that's fire. I

16:43

thought you were talking about Save the Last Dance

16:45

for some reason. I was like, is LeBron in

16:47

another movie? I

16:51

swear to God, I'm not even joking. I

16:53

would watch the fuck out of that. Can we

16:55

get Save the Last Dance remake with LeBron? If

16:57

LeBron said, yo, I'm forcing my way to New

16:59

York, I'm forcing my way to Philly, I'm forcing.

17:02

It would have happened. It

17:05

would have happened. If teams got

17:07

the sense that LeBron would be

17:09

committed to a championship pursuit with

17:11

them, they would have pursued it.

17:13

But everybody got the hint. Nah,

17:16

he's in LA. He's chilling. He's getting

17:18

his son drafted. He's making movies. He's

17:20

a media mogul. That's what he's doing.

17:22

And that's what you're seeing with the

17:24

Lakers. That's why it feels a little

17:27

confusing. Well, and part of the

17:29

reason teams were getting that impression and reading those

17:31

messages and tea leaves from him was

17:33

once it became clear that the Lakers were

17:35

willing to draft Bronny in the second round,

17:38

that was kind of that as far as the

17:40

LeBron free agency part of it went. It's over.

17:45

Yeah, it's just a little more late

17:47

season madmen than I was expecting, where

17:50

everyone's just like, oh, working isn't the

17:52

most important thing. What else do I

17:54

have in my life? This

17:56

is very telling about you, Justin. I

18:00

don't disagree. I definitely understand

18:02

where he's at. But

18:05

I guess this is probably as good

18:07

a transition as any to get into

18:09

the warrior side of thing here because

18:11

Steph isn't quite at that point, but

18:13

he may be just as boxed into

18:15

this weird in-between zone as

18:17

LeBron is now because the Warriors,

18:19

after basically shoving Klay Thompson off

18:22

the boat unceremoniously, have

18:24

made a string of transactions

18:27

that I think you can only

18:29

describe as mildly intriguing. They

18:32

get DeAnthony Melton on the mid-level

18:34

exception, like that deal, right? One

18:37

year deal. Seems like a solid

18:39

addition. Kyle Anderson, 27 million

18:42

over three years in a signing trade.

18:45

Feels like a pretty typical Warriors type

18:47

of guy, ball mover, smart player, always

18:49

felt like a Warriors type of guy. Okay,

18:52

Buddy Heald might come in a signing trade.

18:54

We'll see that as confirmed, but that's in

18:56

the mix there. Also hired Terry

18:58

Stotts and Jerry Stackhouse, the Terry and

19:00

Jerry Buddy comedy that no one knew

19:02

that they needed, but I'm looking forward

19:04

to that. Bruce Frazier

19:07

going to the back of the bench all of

19:09

a sudden, which is very sad and almost like

19:11

a changing on the guard that I wasn't expected,

19:13

but I don't hate all

19:15

of these moves. It's just, it feels

19:18

strange. And so I have to ask again,

19:20

Rob, what's going on here? I

19:23

mean, I think we unpacked a lot of it with the

19:25

Klay situation. And once Chris Paul

19:27

was waived, once those two

19:29

things happen, there's only so much

19:31

that the Warriors can realistically do with

19:33

the exceptions that they have at their disposal and

19:36

getting Dantheny Melton for the mid-level is

19:38

a good bit of business. He's a really good player. Really

19:40

good two-way player, a wing who's going to fit

19:42

what the Warriors do and how they play. It's

19:44

going to be really important for them defensively in

19:46

particular, picking up a wide range of players, but

19:48

I would think a lot of lead guards. I

19:51

like all the guys that they are getting slash

19:53

might potentially get. It just

19:56

doesn't probably take them anywhere. And this

19:58

is, I think, what we're crystallizing. is

20:00

there is a clear point of demarcation

20:02

between the top tier

20:05

or two in the West and all

20:07

of these teams, like the Warriors, like the

20:09

Lakers, maybe even the Suns are in this

20:11

category as they kind of continue to fill

20:13

out their roster and shore up some of

20:16

their weaknesses. All of these sort of also

20:18

ran type teams in the West are gonna

20:20

be bumping up against a different kind of

20:22

ceiling, a different kind of like, almost a

20:24

hard cap in terms of personnel. If you

20:26

can't make dramatic changes, yours

20:29

is not really gonna be that competitive with

20:31

the Thunder and the Wolves and the Mavs

20:33

and the Nuggets. Those are really good, really

20:35

stacked teams. And it's gonna take

20:37

more than DeAnthony Melton to get there, respectfully. They

20:41

got in on the Paul George sweepstakes.

20:44

It didn't work out. They seriously pursued

20:46

it. There was, obviously there

20:48

was mutual interest. It didn't work out. And

20:50

they moved on. Like at the end of

20:52

the day, you can't just

20:54

pull a rabbit out of a hat, guys.

20:57

We know who the impact players in the

20:59

NBA are. If there's no

21:01

avenue to bring one in, then

21:03

you go about doing the business

21:05

of being an actual NBA team.

21:07

And you improve again, incrementally and

21:09

on the margins. But yes, have

21:12

they improved it? I guess if you're

21:14

the biggest Warriors optimist, like a Ben

21:16

Cruz, you might say to yourself,

21:18

hey, listen, Draymond maybe might not

21:21

go psychopath next year. We'll have

21:23

our full compliment of players all

21:25

year long. The young guys, Moody,

21:29

Kamenga, Kamenga took a leap last year.

21:31

Maybe you'll take another one this year.

21:33

Trace Jackson Davis, like, all the young, like

21:36

you can be optimistic.

21:39

But do we think they're gonna be at the upper

21:41

echelon of the West? Of course not. Yeah,

21:44

it's almost like they pivoted to all of the

21:46

guys that like they've had interest over the years.

21:48

Like, oh, maybe they just didn't have a high

21:50

enough draft pick. And so they're almost like living

21:53

the life that they couldn't when they were

21:55

a top tier, we only

21:57

signed superstar level of team. I

22:00

guess this probably brings us to the Laurie

22:02

marketing sweepsticks because he is kind of the

22:04

last big mover on the

22:06

on the chessboard here unless you want to

22:09

count like Brandon Ingram or maybe Demarda Rosen

22:11

who's still out there in Free Agency Miles

22:13

Bridges to I guess But

22:16

it seems like a lot of teams are almost like

22:18

putting a lot of stock if they are gonna go

22:20

out and swing a big move in marketing What

22:23

do you guys think about him in Golden

22:25

State? Because on the one

22:27

hand I'm like if this becomes a horse race

22:30

Do the Warriors really have the assets in order

22:32

to go out and get him on the other

22:34

hand? I guess you could argue Warriors draft picks

22:37

far out in the way Might

22:39

have more value than even the team

22:41

that's willing to provide you with several

22:43

of those so I don't know I

22:45

guess it would take Mortgage

22:47

in the future Rob in order to bring market in

22:49

to Golden State is he the type of guy you

22:51

think? Would be worth doing it So

22:55

this is the tension from the perspective of

22:57

trying to maximize The remaining

22:59

years of one of the best players to ever play

23:01

the game in Steph Curry the answer is obviously yes

23:04

You do whatever it takes to honor

23:06

a player like that who's been with your franchise the whole

23:08

way makes all the sense in the world Will

23:11

Lowry marketing alone? Put

23:13

you within this contending class or near the top

23:15

of it Probably not and

23:18

I say that as someone who really likes Lowry

23:20

and I think part of the reason we talk

23:22

about him so much Is he is a great

23:25

fit for so many different teams like the level

23:27

of shooting and size and mobility that he has

23:29

is immensely valuable It's just

23:31

that the Warriors have so many problems It's

23:33

not like you can't just plug in Lowry

23:35

marketing and fix everything that's going Weird

23:38

or wrong with that team or all the

23:40

ways in which they're lacking right now. They

23:42

need size they need ball handling They need

23:44

playmaking they need somebody who's going to be

23:46

able to play minutes with Draymond Green loses

23:48

his mind They need all of these

23:50

things at once and Lowry can give you some

23:52

of that in shades But

23:55

maybe not enough and that's where as a front

23:57

office or as a team you start

23:59

to get a little precious about what the idea of

24:01

your future can be even knowing that you want to

24:03

do right by Steph. I think Lowry

24:06

would be an excellent warrior, but he

24:08

wouldn't make them good enough to

24:10

be in the top tier because what

24:13

they're mainly missing is people who

24:15

can create themselves

24:18

for themselves and others outside

24:21

of Steph. And last

24:23

year, because Andrew Wiggins

24:26

is now, you know, comatose slash on

24:28

a milk carton, whichever, you know, metaphor

24:30

you want to use, they

24:33

were counting on Kominga.

24:36

They were counting on a clearly

24:38

diminished Clay Thompson. They were counting

24:40

on a rookie, Pajemsky. Like they

24:43

were counting on these guys in

24:45

big spots to try to create

24:47

for themselves and others outside of

24:50

what Steph, the huge

24:52

burden he's already carrying. And Lowry, for

24:54

all of his strengths, that's

24:56

not really his bag. He's

24:59

beautiful at working off of others, at

25:01

not needing to soak up the bulk

25:03

of a bunch of possessions in terms

25:05

of dribbling and all of this stuff

25:07

and isolating and stuff. But,

25:10

and again, that stuff would be very useful

25:12

in the Golden State Steve Kerr system. Totally.

25:14

But I don't think it would take them

25:16

to the stratosphere. Yeah. A seven

25:18

foot version of Clay who can attack

25:20

off the dribble against the closeout and

25:22

actually finish and dunk inside. That would

25:24

look beautiful. I just

25:27

don't know if it takes them as far as they need to go. Yeah.

25:29

I thought the most telling thing

25:31

in the reported Paul George discussions

25:34

was that they held stuff

25:36

on Kominga in large part because they

25:38

wanted to have enough leftover for when

25:40

Paul George came there. And I think

25:42

that is the crucial thing with the

25:44

Warriors. It's like, yeah, they actually have

25:47

some pretty intriguing young guys like Pajemsky,

25:49

Trace Jackson Davis, Kominga, Moody. Like I

25:51

don't think this is the two timeline

25:53

track that they had hoped for, but

25:55

they have a cadre of young guys

25:57

that are probably more intriguing than and

25:59

for instance, like what the Lakers have

26:01

that have proven more. But if you

26:04

trade all of those guys, then

26:06

what's left around to play with Steph other

26:08

than Laurie Market and Andre Moncree. And honestly,

26:10

it's like kind of the flip side of

26:13

bringing Draymond back. Like he provides so much

26:15

for that defense, but the fact that he's

26:17

practically a one-way player at this point outside

26:19

of what he does and kind of the

26:21

ballet with Steph and the handoffs, like it

26:23

really kind of handstrings them because he had

26:25

to be one of the foundational guys left

26:28

over there. So I don't

26:30

know. I just, I don't think a big

26:32

move really works when you actually do the

26:34

math of it all. This

26:37

is where the chain of events that

26:40

either starts with the Draymond green punch or

26:42

maybe it goes even further back than that

26:45

really just kills the Warriors. Like

26:47

trading Jordan Poole for Chris

26:49

Paul and having to give

26:51

up even more stuff to make that happen.

26:54

And then not trading Chris Paul for

26:57

anything and letting his contract expire. And

26:59

then not resigning or signing trading or

27:01

flipping Clay Thompson ahead of time for

27:03

anything and letting him expire. That

27:06

like all of those moves colliding is what

27:09

leads the Warriors into exactly the predicament you're

27:11

talking about Justin, where they do have good

27:13

young guys, but they are, it

27:15

turns out very instrumental to what they do. And

27:17

they almost cannot give them up if they want

27:20

to maintain a full complete team. Yeah,

27:22

and it's some self-awareness too, which I

27:24

appreciate, right? When it's like,

27:27

all right, we want to get in for Paul George.

27:29

Paul George is 33 now. I

27:32

hate to break it to people. He is

27:34

not this on-ball, kill you

27:37

guy anymore. He's

27:39

just not that. He will, yo,

27:41

he can create space, you

27:43

know, at like 17 feet, still huge

27:45

and long and like, he creates

27:48

a little bit of separation against

27:50

a one-on-one. He can pretty

27:52

efficiently make a nice mid-ranger, slightly contested.

27:54

He can make some tough shots. He's

27:56

obviously a great shooter, all of that,

27:58

but Paul George, don't turn the corner

28:00

on people anymore. When he

28:03

gets downhill, like it's finishing at the basket.

28:05

It's not incredible. So like, it's an awareness

28:07

that like, man, if we don't even got

28:09

comminga to supplement this stuff, in

28:11

terms of after step, who gets

28:13

to do this? Paul George

28:16

is not it. Now let's say in some

28:18

alternate universe, right? The Boston

28:20

Celtics had flamed out in the

28:22

playoffs and Jaylen Brown was

28:24

suddenly on the market. Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.

28:26

Jaylen Brown still in his 20s. Yeah,

28:29

third-party conversation. Still kicking people like, yeah, yeah,

28:31

let's get comminga in there. Let's blah, blah,

28:33

blah. Let's whatever. Fuck it. It's

28:35

Jaylen Brown. But Paul George at

28:37

30-something, like some of the guys that come

28:40

up, these guys ain't going to

28:42

move the needle and just mortgage the rest

28:44

of your future completely for them. Knowing

28:47

damn well, like you could look Stephane

28:49

I and be like, this dude

28:51

ain't going to change our fortunes. We

28:53

know this. And so I think they're playing it

28:55

smart too. I think

28:57

this is an important point that we

28:59

need to clarify as far as all of

29:02

the apron mayhem

29:04

and terror that's going around. I

29:07

don't know that any of us on this podcast

29:09

are advocating for teams in the Warriors position, for

29:11

example, to run headfirst at

29:13

the second apron. If you are not

29:16

fundamentally good enough, the

29:18

spending isn't really the issue. The

29:22

teams that we are concerned with as far as

29:24

the apron goes are teams like the Nuggets. Yes.

29:26

That's a very good roster already in hand. It

29:28

doesn't take a lot of reimagining to think about

29:30

how you might get back into a championship series.

29:33

The Warriors have to do reimagining. The Lakers

29:35

will have to do reimagining. Those

29:37

are teams that probably should not be hard

29:40

charging into the aprons if they can avoid

29:42

it. And yet, the Lakers kind of have.

29:46

The Warriors, I think, is the worst situation

29:48

just because Steph is a few years younger

29:50

and thus has still this runway to be

29:52

competing at a high level. The fact that

29:54

he is not on the same level as

29:56

some of the title contending teams in the

29:58

West is a god damn. And I guess

30:00

it's a personal decision at a certain point,

30:02

whether or not you want to stick it

30:04

out with one team your entire career. I

30:06

personally don't really see why it would be

30:09

such a big deal for someone to just

30:11

like finish two to three

30:13

years down the road with another team.

30:15

But he seems unlike

30:17

virtually any star we've seen since probably

30:20

Dirk just resigned to the fact that

30:22

he will not ask out. And maybe

30:25

the people in the Bay love him for

30:27

that, but like, God damn, it's a shame

30:29

because he should be like, we should be

30:31

talking about him like joining forces with Nikolas

30:33

Jokic or something right now. I

30:36

want to take some time

30:38

out to appreciate Steph in

30:41

a way because, you

30:43

know, the recent Caitlin

30:45

Clark stuff has made

30:48

me laugh because all

30:50

the little people who are

30:52

allied against this notion that, you

30:54

know, this is actually a special

30:56

player, the hype around

30:58

her is based on what she's doing

31:00

on the court and it's incredible, actually

31:03

remind me of myself at

31:06

the beginning of the Steph phenomenon.

31:08

I was very annoyed by it.

31:11

I remember Stiny Mo, my man, like

31:14

I love Stiny Mo. I

31:16

remember hearing him talk about how like, yo, I

31:18

introduced my kid to Steph, it was cool. My

31:20

kid was geek, blah, blah, blah. He's like, and

31:22

I just remember him saying like, I don't know

31:24

the guy's like relatable. And I don't know why

31:26

that stuck in my craw. And

31:28

I was like, what, Chris Paul

31:30

isn't relatable? You know, like it

31:33

was ridiculous. But like, as the years

31:35

go by, I've realized that

31:38

like, I was wrong, like

31:40

Steph is actually special. There

31:43

is something special about the

31:45

way he is managing his

31:47

career, the way he's managing

31:49

his brand, as

31:52

disgusting as it is to say that, like

31:54

there is something special about it. And I

31:56

do think it has to do that he

31:58

wasn't some cherry pick. since he was 12 years

32:01

old, you know, child prodigy, Messiah,

32:03

like frankly, a lot of these

32:05

dudes in the NBA. And

32:08

you could tell by how they carry

32:10

themselves, you know. Steph

32:12

is just like more normal. Yes, he

32:14

grew up with millionaire parent. Yes, I

32:16

get that, but he didn't do the

32:18

crazy AAU circuit. He didn't do, he

32:20

didn't go to some big time college

32:22

program. He wasn't picked by one of

32:24

the shoe companies from early on age.

32:27

And I think that makes him

32:29

have different basketball values. So the fact

32:31

that he's not, you know, sort

32:33

of chasing rings and chasing attention and

32:36

chasing this, I can't really be

32:38

mad. This is like sort of

32:40

the downside of having the great

32:42

wholesome basketball story is that he's

32:44

not being completely cynical about his career,

32:46

man, like it's kind of, you

32:48

know, for me, I can, I take

32:50

the good with the bad in that. And

32:53

maybe that's the reason that you do chase

32:55

a trade for someone like Lowry to begin

32:57

with is not because it's going to make

32:59

you an immediate title contender. But it makes

33:01

Steph happier. It makes Steph happier. And

33:03

it gives him something to play for. Like we were talking

33:05

about LeBron and his priorities and what he is valuing at

33:07

this point in his career. For Steph, if

33:10

retiring a warrior is something he wants to do,

33:12

and it seems very much like it is, he

33:14

even mentioned it in his kind of parting message

33:16

to Clay Thompson on social media that they didn't

33:18

get to finish this thing out together, which is

33:21

a genuine shame that those two guys didn't

33:24

get to kind of ride off into the

33:26

sunset and see his teammates. But if he

33:28

wants to stay a warrior, improving his quality

33:30

of life is an incredibly meaningful thing and

33:32

a meaningful gesture to a, like just the

33:34

most important player in the history of your

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36:15

the warriors don't get in on the Lowry

36:17

sweepsticks or if they don't win it, I

36:20

do want to talk about what the jazz are

36:22

doing here. Cause I have them on my list

36:24

of confusing teams as well because so far they

36:26

have oodles of cap space, I think around 40

36:28

million just under that. And

36:31

the only moves that they've made

36:33

thus far are they signed Drew

36:35

Eubanks for two years at 10

36:37

million. Yep. Got

36:39

to do it. Got to do

36:41

it. They waved Omer Yurt seven,

36:43

which I'm doing the cross right now

36:45

and just boring one. And

36:49

they are reportedly in sign and

36:52

trade talks to send Chris Dunn

36:54

to the Clippers. So

36:57

I have to pull out my Brian Windhorst

37:00

fingers right here and wonder what's

37:02

going on here because with Eubanks,

37:06

this is what they have in terms of

37:08

big, they have bigs. They have Walker Kessler,

37:10

they have John Collins, who God,

37:13

he's going to stick in the league for 20 years and no one's

37:15

going to know what he actually did in it. Eubanks,

37:20

our man, Philip Kowski, I'm

37:23

sure everyone has heard a lot about in

37:25

recent days. Hendrix,

37:27

the recent draft pick and

37:29

Lowry Markin. So

37:32

that's a crowded front court with

37:34

a lot of money left to do. And so I

37:37

have to wonder like, what's going on with the NEA

37:39

share? See, I

37:41

wouldn't take any of that to mean

37:43

that there is a Lowry Markin in

37:45

sweepstakes necessarily. The jazz

37:47

have shown they are perfectly willing to play

37:49

Markin in with Collins and another big, whether

37:52

that's Kessler or Olendek or whoever they have

37:54

on hand. So just because they got

37:56

a lot of bodies, I don't think

37:58

is nudging Markin in out the door. But

38:01

the broader question of what the Jazz are doing is

38:04

something we have been wrestling with for now two full

38:06

seasons and change. Trying

38:08

to figure out like what is the direction of this team? To

38:11

what extent is Lowry going to be a part of it or

38:13

see kind of the avenue toward turning the page and resetting things

38:15

a little bit? He's the avenue. It

38:18

kind of feels that way just because he's getting to

38:21

that point in his career where like he's

38:23

he's ready to be competing for high

38:25

level playoff series and like actual games

38:27

of meaning right now. And

38:29

when the Jazz do kind of want to accelerate, it's still going

38:31

to take them a couple of years to get up to speed.

38:35

I just don't know when they are going to actually put the

38:37

pedal to the metal on that. We've

38:40

seen no indication that they are surging forward

38:42

in any way. Have we seen anything, Woz?

38:45

No. So I think

38:48

what they're doing is kind of similar to

38:51

the OKC thing. What you're seeing

38:53

with the cap space, I think they're just renting it

38:55

out, getting picks. Somebody

38:57

is going to need to use this cap space eventually.

39:00

Some team that has actual

39:02

pursuits will rent it out, get

39:05

picks, probably use that thing that we

39:07

rented it out for to get more picks. Allah,

39:09

you know, Al Horford in Oklahoma City that turns

39:12

into Kemba Walker that turns into more picks and

39:14

more picks and more picks. All right, Pete Kemba

39:16

Walker, by the way. Rest in peace. Yeah,

39:19

my God, man. CHSA legend. He's

39:22

finally retired. He's one of the last of

39:24

the Mohicans in terms of impactful New York

39:26

City basketball players. It makes me really sad,

39:29

honestly. But

39:32

yeah, it seems like, look, they've told

39:34

people, like, yo, you know, I

39:37

think it was Zach Low that was like, after

39:39

they saw the the

39:42

Miles, not Miles, the

39:45

McHale Bridges, the McHale Bridges,

39:47

Trey, they called teams like, hey, yo,

39:50

if y'all want to do that for Laurie, like, loud. Like,

39:53

it's it's there. Like,

39:55

we're ready. We want to

39:57

do that. I think they're just taking their time with it.

40:00

I think it has to do, you know, I

40:02

made that joke about Popovich and Buford's job

40:04

security. It's the same shit with Ainge. They're

40:07

not going anywhere. They're firmly entrenched in

40:09

terms of their power in Utah so

40:11

they can be as judicious as they

40:14

want to be. The only confusing thing

40:16

to me is that they refuse to

40:18

get into the Wembley sweepstakes. That

40:21

was just weird. That

40:23

just, or maybe it was just like, look, we're not

40:26

rushing into that. They

40:28

just refuse to get in on the

40:30

guy that everybody said was going to

40:32

be the future of the league. That

40:34

just seems weird to me. But other

40:36

than that, everything else makes all the

40:38

sense in the world. You

40:40

mean the fact that they didn't hardcore tank in order to

40:42

be in position? They didn't do it fast enough. Yeah.

40:46

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah, it's

40:48

weird. I think something is going to happen.

40:50

Maybe it isn't marketing or at least

40:52

it doesn't have to be marketing, but this is a lot

40:55

of bigs. Like you were building

40:57

a team around Markinen. I think you would at

40:59

least try to find a pathway for him to

41:01

play more four rather than trying to stick him

41:04

at three, which is what I think Rob, you were

41:06

suggesting that they were okay with doing. Like,

41:08

so I'm not sure they should, but they

41:11

did. Can I ask you guys something related

41:13

to this? Is there

41:15

an in-between of the

41:17

extremes of Utah and what they choose

41:19

Utah and how OKC did it, what

41:21

they were doing when they were bad

41:24

in all their cap space and what

41:26

Detroit just did with Tobias Harris? Is

41:28

there a nice threading the

41:31

needle? And by detrived me, Tobias

41:33

Harris is not worth any of that money. There's

41:36

just no reason to do it. They just

41:38

literally just like, oh, let's spend our money

41:41

on a vet. It's

41:44

not going to help them in any

41:46

material way. So I'm not saying Utah

41:49

should go out and do Tobias Harris,

41:51

but is there an in-between level

41:54

here? They

41:56

also don't have to because they weren't embarrassing

41:59

enough. that they have to go out inside

42:01

anyone. I think to me,

42:03

Harris is the hinky tax where it's

42:05

like you were so bad that you

42:07

actually have to show that you're trying

42:09

to be competitive to your bosses. You

42:11

know? Yeah. There's a Colangelo running

42:13

the Pistons right now? I

42:16

wouldn't doubt it, honestly. I do

42:18

think the middle ground is if you

42:20

can find a player, a veteran in

42:22

that range that maybe you have to

42:24

overpay for slightly, but who is tradable,

42:27

that's kind of the middle ground. Is this a

42:29

player who would be attractive to a winning team

42:31

and is on a deal that could make sense

42:33

for a winning team? The Tobias Harris deal is

42:35

not gonna make sense for anyone who's trying to

42:38

compete at a high level. They're just not gonna

42:40

have the money to ship back in a transaction

42:42

like that. But if you can get

42:44

a veteran on a mid-level deal on a reasonable

42:46

contract who could help a contender even as a

42:48

seventh or eighth or ninth guy trying to make

42:50

a playoff run, that could

42:52

be the middle ground. I

42:54

just, I really don't know that the Jazz are looking

42:56

to do all that much. Maybe

42:59

we'll be shocked and maybe Lowry will be moved in short

43:01

order. I see this as more of a long-term thing. And

43:04

maybe he's more of a guy we look at

43:06

the trade deadline yet again and say, are

43:09

teams looking to get in on him at that point in

43:11

time? But for what it is now, I see a lot

43:13

of, can you get Walker Kessler fully

43:15

back on track? Can you get Taylor Hendricks to

43:17

be a meaningful part of this rotation? Like what

43:20

is the next step for Chianti George? What are

43:22

you seeing for Cody Williams? Is there a route

43:24

for him to have immediate playing time? Those

43:26

are sort of the big questions for the Jazz to me

43:28

more than are we gonna see a Lowry market and trade

43:31

in the next two to three weeks? Yeah,

43:34

I think if they push on a

43:36

market and trade, I think it's more

43:38

about taking advantage of the market at

43:40

this point, because it does feel like

43:42

there are a couple teams that really

43:45

wanna make that one move to get

43:47

into that elite tier of

43:49

their conferences. I'm talking about like the Kings.

43:51

I'm talking about like the Rockets. There are

43:53

these teams that are, the Pelicans for instance,

43:55

that are on the rise and feel like

43:58

they've been like, in

44:00

that in-between zone for a little too long.

44:02

And I almost wonder if this

44:05

coming after the bridges trade was

44:07

just, is more opportunism, because

44:10

it does feel like Lowry can swing the

44:12

fortunes of some of those sorts of teams.

44:14

And so Danny Ange always

44:16

wanting to like really make the most of

44:19

someone else's suffering. I could definitely see

44:21

those things aligning here. Do any of

44:23

those teams like interest

44:25

you as a lorry destination? Like, oh

44:27

man, if he's with the Kings and

44:29

we're just like aggregating

44:32

every intriguing Eastern European guy,

44:34

like now we're getting back to

44:36

the glory days. I kind of actually like that as a working

44:38

theory. Are we including Finland

44:40

as Eastern Europe? Where

44:43

would you say it is? I

44:45

mean, Scandinavia, no? Scandinavia boy, come on now. I

44:47

didn't know if we were being that specific. I

44:49

don't have my globe out here. We're

44:52

always being that specific, but. Well, it's cause

44:54

most of the good euros are

44:56

Eastern European. Well, the ones who aren't black

44:58

anyway. There's no doubt. Apologies

45:00

to our Scandinavian, maybe in

45:02

novemores at Spotify. But

45:05

look, that's the thing about the McHale Bridges trade. If

45:07

you want to get that kind of return, who

45:10

were like, I don't know a lot about

45:12

the like late teens, Arizona Wildcats or did

45:14

Lowry Markin and have a bunch of beloved

45:16

college teammates I don't know about who are

45:18

going to push for him to get five

45:21

first in a potential deal. I

45:23

think there's lots of teams that could use Lowry Markin in

45:25

to what we discussed earlier. I

45:28

just don't know that there's the urgency that

45:30

you got from the McHale Bridges deal of

45:32

a team that I think there's a different

45:35

urgency between the sort of listlessness you're describing

45:37

among teams like the Pelicans, for example, versus

45:39

the Knicks seeing themselves as being on the

45:41

cusp of something and wanting to get that

45:43

started as soon as possible. The

45:46

Pelicans are looking for changes, but I don't know that they're

45:48

looking for this level of change. Everybody's

45:50

wet dream was OKC. And

45:53

I think for good reason, I

45:55

think the complexity of OKC is

45:57

how poor the franchise is. terms

46:00

of cash. And this guy

46:02

is due for a raise pretty soon. Like,

46:06

Chet Holmgren is already in his

46:08

third NBA season. Shae's

46:10

already been paid. It won't

46:13

be long until Jay, like,

46:16

you know, I think they're trying to

46:18

do stuff on this quick

46:20

timeline, but I think Larry could have fit

46:23

into the quick timeline too. I

46:25

don't know, man. I think to

46:29

preserve the five out nature of the

46:31

team, I would have

46:33

rather them go out and get Lowry than

46:35

address the size issue, honestly,

46:37

and just been like, you know what? We're going

46:39

to make shots this year. And that's

46:42

what's going to make the difference. And we

46:44

went out and got Lowry instead of getting

46:46

the heart and steam, which shores up the

46:49

size issue, the rebounding issue and stuff like

46:51

that. Leaning into the offense and the five

46:53

out, I think would have been more fun,

46:55

would have been more bold, more daring. But,

46:57

you know, basically, you know, a two year

46:59

deal, very judicious with the

47:01

heart and steam. I respect

47:04

it though. I

47:06

don't think it's just Hardenstein too. I think

47:08

it's a combination of him and Caruso because

47:10

the deal, like the way to get Lowry

47:12

would, I would imagine have to involve if

47:15

not J-dub someone like Josh Gitti, who is

47:17

now no longer a member of the Oklahoma

47:19

City Thunder. Then you're not giving up J-dub

47:21

for the Lowry deal. That's not happening. You

47:23

should not. I liked

47:25

what OKC did. We can talk about the West

47:27

a little bit later, but I think they're probably

47:29

the team to be in that conference at this

47:32

point. What do you guys think about the Rockets

47:34

for Lowry? They're a team that like has suggested

47:36

that they really want to make an upgrade for

47:38

whatever reason. But do you think he fits?

47:40

Because they also have a lot of young guys

47:42

to contort to whatever superstar or

47:45

whatever you want to call them in there.

47:47

You know, it's like they can get a big and just trade

47:49

out some of the younger bigs. They can get a guard. They

47:51

can trade out some of the younger guards. I

47:53

think what you're asking us is do we believe

47:55

in Jabari as a five? Yeah,

47:58

kind of. Because Mark I don't

48:00

think I want that as my four or five

48:02

combination defensively. That's that's not what

48:04

I'm looking for. But

48:07

if you think what we saw from the end

48:09

of the season run from the sort of smaller

48:11

ball rockets could be a real thing. Then the

48:15

way to get on man Thompson real consistent

48:17

minutes is the combination of Lowry and Jabari,

48:19

right? That kind of spacing

48:21

from your bigs. If Jabari can be a real

48:24

anchor of a defense, that could

48:26

be amazing for the sort of spacing and alignment that the

48:28

rocket seemed to need. But

48:30

that might be giving up on Chengoon too early. A guy

48:32

who I think is a really good and really talented player.

48:35

I have a question for you guys in terms of

48:37

the district bar at the five thing doesn't it doesn't

48:40

pass the smell test. It doesn't move

48:42

me personally. Like like

48:44

because I got to ask you

48:46

because even your smallest fives to

48:49

be credible. You've got to

48:51

be at least as good at defense as 40 year old

48:53

Al Horford. Do

48:57

we think Jabari can be as good

48:59

on defense as Al Horford was at

49:01

his age this year in the playoffs?

49:04

Because I think that's like the basement of

49:08

center defense man like like you know

49:10

Horford is the basement of center defense

49:12

if you want to be a serious

49:14

team. Not in

49:16

the NBA. Al Horford still a really good defender. I'm

49:19

not talking about in the NBA to be

49:21

competent. I'm talking about if you want

49:23

to be a championship level team. I think Al

49:26

Horford this year in the playoffs is bad as you can

49:28

be in terms of his size,

49:31

his rim protection, his mobility. Like

49:33

that's as bad a combination as

49:35

you can get and still be

49:38

a serious championship level team

49:40

like Jabari Smith

49:43

at center full time. I

49:45

feel like you're being a little uncharitable to

49:47

NBA champion Al Horford. No

49:50

I'm saying that I'm saying like

49:52

the level the basement of championship

49:54

contention is very high. That is

49:57

true. That's what I'm saying. Okay. How

50:00

is that the basement of what it

50:02

takes to win championships? But that shit

50:04

like, dude, that's a really crazy height

50:06

to reach. I

50:08

think the problem is the Jabari stuff

50:10

is so interconnected with the jailing green

50:13

stuff where I do feel like Shen

50:15

Goon moving out just opened things up

50:17

for the both of them because they're

50:19

playing a slightly different style of basketball

50:22

that empowers them to be more who

50:24

they are. And I don't know if

50:26

either direction necessarily points them toward title

50:28

contentions. So they are in a real

50:31

like Faustian bargain here. So I just,

50:35

I don't know which way to go. And

50:37

it almost feels like they need a trade

50:39

to push them in one of those directions.

50:42

It couldn't hurt in terms of just getting some

50:44

clarity in that building. But you're right. Like

50:46

these bets are conditional on one another betting on

50:48

Jabari is also betting on jailing green, which is

50:51

not something that I'm eager to do at this

50:53

point in time. Going in

50:55

the other like even, even if you were

50:57

to say trade Shen Goon, but keep jailing

50:59

green and bring in someone like Lowry, Lowry

51:02

and Jalen Green strike me as two players who

51:04

do not have a lot of on-court chemistry or

51:06

would not have a lot of on-court chemistry. Their

51:08

games are not very collaborative in terms of style.

51:11

This is the problem you run into with the Rockets.

51:14

They have a lot of talent. They have a lot

51:16

of veteran talent and young talent at the same time.

51:18

Guys that I like individually. Lot

51:20

of guys over there. Perhaps, perhaps too

51:22

many guys as we often come

51:24

to at this point in the season. And so whether

51:26

now or later, they are a natural trade

51:28

candidate for a lot of different teams for

51:30

that reason. Whatever your vision of what the

51:32

Rockets should be, they do need to clarify

51:35

it. Also, Faustian

51:37

bargain was not what I was reaching for.

51:39

I think it was, I meant Sophie's choice.

51:41

That's tough. You know, Faust and Sophie, they

51:43

have a lot in common. That's

51:46

true. Listen,

51:48

I'm in the middle of the summer. I'm

51:50

dealing with a head cold. We'll get there eventually, guys. What

51:53

is the Rockets Faustian bargain, do you

51:55

think? Jaylen

52:01

Green being a superstar. Oh,

52:05

that's what they're selling their soul for? Or

52:07

maybe did. No,

52:09

that's what they would have to. Well, maybe that's

52:11

what happened in April. Like, Tillman

52:14

Fertitta sold his soul. Jaylen Green became a superstar

52:17

and here we are. We're living in that reality

52:19

now. Let's go, I'm with that reality, by the

52:21

way. Last team I have

52:23

in the list here, Milwaukee Bucks, who

52:25

really didn't have many options. And so

52:28

they haven't done much as a result.

52:30

Delon Wright, they signed, seems

52:32

like classic buck signing of a

52:34

guy who was interesting two years ago and just

52:36

ends up, let's take a flyer to see if

52:38

he could reprise that. I

52:41

think the most interesting thing with the

52:43

bucks was, is like the Burke Lopez

52:45

chatter seems to be ongoing. Seems

52:48

like if they want to make any sort

52:50

of meaningful upgrade, he might be the path

52:52

to do so. Reported Lakers interest, yada, yada.

52:54

Do you see that as

52:56

a more viable alternative this year than it

52:59

has been in years past? I

53:02

don't, I really think the Bucks have

53:04

to bank on the idea that their

53:06

roster can play significantly better than it

53:08

did last season. Like, they

53:10

have to have a belief that they can

53:12

just be better. That can

53:14

be the adjustment, that can be the

53:17

upgrade. We're just better than we

53:19

were last year. Like, I don't know

53:21

how, like how could

53:23

it be possible that Brooke Lopez

53:26

brings back a group of players

53:28

or a player that somehow

53:31

unlocks what's already within this team?

53:34

I think it's about Chris Middleton's health

53:37

and just a more sound approach

53:39

to hoop. I like,

53:42

I don't know that it can

53:44

be anything else. Quite frankly, Gianna

53:46

is coming back healthy, Middleton being

53:48

healthier, and

53:50

them just playing like an actual

53:52

NBA team, man. I

53:55

think we also need to adjust our expectations

53:58

for the Bucks timeline too. Yes,

54:00

Brooke Lopez is, you know, on the older

54:02

side of his career. But

54:05

really, Milwaukee has to prove a lot

54:07

this season, right? Giannis is committed to

54:09

them, but not indefinitely. And

54:11

you're going to need to show that you're closer to

54:13

contending than you were a year ago. Some of that

54:16

is Chris Middleton's health, as you said, was some of

54:18

that is just getting meaningfully better, cleaning stuff up in

54:20

terms of the coaching. Some of it is Dame playing

54:22

meaningfully better than he did last year. I

54:25

just don't think if you trade Brooke for even a

54:27

player who's, let's say theoretically

54:29

at Brooke's level or slightly better,

54:32

who plays a different position or plays that same

54:34

position differently, you're going to have

54:36

to reintegrate them from the start of the season.

54:38

You're going to go through a similar degree of

54:40

growing pains all year as you did last year

54:42

with Dame. The continuity

54:45

of what Giannis and Chris Middleton

54:47

and Brooke Lopez have together is

54:49

part of what is going to make the Bucks

54:51

good. And to bail on that for, well, I

54:53

think what at best would be a lateral move,

54:55

what probably would be a step down strikes

54:58

me as very short-sighted. Yes.

55:00

After a year of starting stops

55:02

where you change things practically every

55:04

two months, why would you go

55:07

out and go into the continuity that you've built even

55:09

in that short amount of time? I tend to agree

55:11

here. I think it really comes down to more, A,

55:14

is Brooke valuable on a market where a lot of

55:16

teams seem like they need a big who can shoot?

55:19

And so if you needed a plug and play guy

55:21

like that and protect the room, I think he is

55:23

kind of an instant floor raiser for a lot of

55:25

different teams. The Pelicans, part of the example. If they

55:27

can't get enough shooting in there, I think he makes

55:29

a lot of sense there. And

55:31

I think that the flip side is the kind

55:33

of the conversation we've been dancing around for a

55:36

season or two. It's like, does Giannis at the

55:38

five, for instance, make them a

55:40

little bit different now? Or the fact that

55:42

you have Dame, can you divert some of

55:44

your capital in terms of cap space to

55:46

more of a winged offender in order?

55:48

And does that make them a better team?

55:51

I think it's more about like who the

55:53

the Bucks are under dock more so than

55:56

what Brooke is even. Yeah,

55:58

I'm just thinking about. even which wing

56:00

defenders they would get. And

56:03

if you told me they could have gotten in

56:05

on the Alex Caruso conversation, that's a

56:07

level of wing defender who could change some things for

56:09

them. And a guy who can actually hit

56:11

some shots, at least recently has been able to hit some shots.

56:14

If you're just trading Brooke Lopez,

56:16

who we should say last season

56:18

had basically an all defense caliber

56:20

season for another

56:22

decent level wing defender, that's

56:25

not changing anything about your team. And

56:28

putting that much on Giannis defensively, I just

56:30

don't think is that realistic over the course of

56:32

a full regular season. And this is why

56:34

the fact that the Bucks right now cannot

56:37

use the full

56:39

mid-level exception is

56:41

kind of a problem because doing so would

56:43

put them over the second apron. They're in that

56:45

like, or even the full taxpayer mid-level exception, I

56:47

believe, would put them over the second apron. So

56:50

they're in this kind of middle ground where they

56:52

can't actually add players. Having

56:54

the guys who they have who are good could

56:56

pull them a step backwards. And

56:59

maybe the most confusing part, they

57:01

just had the 23rd and the 33rd pick in

57:04

the draft, and they picked

57:06

two teenagers. Are

57:09

we sure that AJ Johnson is not a couple of

57:11

kids stacked up on each other in a trench coat?

57:14

Like how confident are we in that? Yeah, I mean,

57:16

I don't know. Like, I

57:19

think you got it in the draft, kid players that

57:21

you think are actually going to

57:23

be good. Like this idea that you get

57:25

old dudes because they're NBA ready. I

57:27

just don't buy. I don't see an old

57:29

dude. I'm saying maybe not literal children. Especially

57:36

with Doc as their coach. Like, do

57:38

we need to? Oh

57:40

my God. Andre Jackson is getting

57:43

his one-thirds in his butts. Yeah, I don't

57:45

know. So we'll keep an eye on

57:47

the Bucks here. I want to talk about the Mabs because

57:50

I think they're quietly killing the

57:52

offseason. So they lose

57:54

Derek Jones Jr., who was obviously a huge part

57:56

of the making of the finals last year, but

57:59

they bring in in a side and

58:01

trade win the clay sweet steaks. So that's

58:03

something considering that they haven't won a free

58:05

agent sweepstakes and God,

58:07

who knows how long? Chandler Parsons, perhaps. I

58:09

mean, I guess you could add Kyrie, but

58:11

he was their own free agent. So

58:14

that seems like a pretty significant marker

58:16

in just their trajectory. I

58:18

also think like their totality of

58:20

transactions is kind of pretty impressive.

58:23

So they bring in Quinton Grimes

58:25

for Tim Hardaway Jr. in three

58:27

seconds. Love Quinton Grimes. I

58:30

think he might end up being a starter for

58:32

this team. We'll see. And then they

58:34

bring in Najee Marc. You don't think so? I

58:37

think Clay Thompson might have some different opinions

58:39

about that. Yeah. So yeah,

58:41

I think that is the big sticking point here.

58:44

I would assume Clay is going to start to

58:46

begin with. And I wonder if by the end

58:48

of the season, they'll realize what the Warriors realize.

58:50

And like, he's very valuable, but just to a

58:52

certain extent. I

58:55

think they won't have to realize that till the

58:57

playoffs. In the regular

58:59

season where teams are

59:02

going to have to devote multiple resources

59:04

to stopping Luca and Lively in the

59:06

pick and roll, Clay's

59:08

going to be open. Or if

59:10

he's not, other people are going to be, their

59:13

offense is going to be made better

59:16

by having non-dribble threat, non-one-on-one

59:18

threat, Clay Thompson on it,

59:21

in the regular season. In

59:23

the playoffs, I think Clay's,

59:26

he has to guard threes.

59:29

He can even guard some fours,

59:31

but can't rebound. Doesn't, isn't

59:33

a dribble threat. Those problems

59:35

will rear their head in the post season,

59:37

but in the regular season, it's going to

59:39

be just fine. And

59:42

I think they're going to be a

59:44

much better regular season team for it.

59:46

They're probably going to threaten for

59:49

the number one seed this year because

59:52

of how strong they'll be in the regular season.

59:54

I think Clay has this like 30 something

59:57

minute game playoff guy. I ain't

59:59

seeing it. Sure. Yeah,

1:00:01

I was going to get to this point, but

1:00:04

I think my big prediction for

1:00:06

the Mavs is Quentin Grimes or Najee

1:00:08

Marshall will be, if not starting by

1:00:10

the end of the season, but definitely

1:00:12

in their best lineup. I can actually

1:00:14

see like Marshall supplanting

1:00:16

Washington even as a go-to

1:00:19

for, if only because Washington shooting is kind

1:00:21

of coming gone there. But like, I

1:00:24

love those signings. And for some, somehow

1:00:26

they've managed to upgrade on what was

1:00:29

already a really deep, intriguing group of

1:00:31

wing players, especially if you throw Exum in there

1:00:33

as well. Yeah. I mean, it turns

1:00:36

out Nico Harrison is pretty damn good at this. Both

1:00:39

the taking a calculated

1:00:41

swing on someone like Kyrie, who we all had

1:00:43

our questions about at the time and has turned

1:00:45

out to pay off really well for them, but

1:00:47

also filling out the roster. Last

1:00:50

season, getting Derek Jones Jr. getting Dante Exum

1:00:52

this year, coming up with this complete renovation

1:00:54

of the supporting cast in terms of the

1:00:56

wing talent that the Mavs have at their

1:00:59

disposal. They're going to have options.

1:01:01

And I think they're probably going to have

1:01:03

to get a little bit more comfortable playing

1:01:05

PJ at the five on a semi consistent

1:01:07

basis or at least matchup dependent basis to

1:01:09

make use of all these guys that they

1:01:11

have. I would love to see some

1:01:14

more of those sorts of looks. And it's going

1:01:16

to, it's going to depend on Luca rebounding at

1:01:18

a pretty high level. It's going to depend on

1:01:20

Najee Marshall, not just being a

1:01:22

physical on-ball defender, but also rebounding like a big

1:01:24

that's, those are kind of the variables that come

1:01:26

with playing someone like PJ at the five. But

1:01:28

I think they can get away with some of that. I think they

1:01:31

can get away with it because this group is talented, is capable.

1:01:33

It's going to demand a little more attention

1:01:35

on the perimeter than Derek Jones and Josh

1:01:37

Green did. And that's where whatever

1:01:40

Clay's limitations may be, and there are many,

1:01:42

especially at his price point and his level

1:01:44

of reputation and what he expects of himself

1:01:46

and his role. But

1:01:48

he's going to demand a ton of attention on

1:01:50

the perimeter and he's going to completely change the

1:01:52

way the teams try to guard the Mavs. It's

1:01:55

just a different problem and formula than even the

1:01:57

team that just made it to the NBA finals.

1:02:00

Yeah, the switch heavy, the best switch

1:02:02

heavy teams in the playoffs are still

1:02:04

going to guard, like have

1:02:06

a nice time guarding

1:02:08

Klay Thompson. Luka's

1:02:11

definitely still going to have to be

1:02:13

a switch buster come playoff time. But

1:02:16

again, in the regular season, Klay Thompson is

1:02:18

going to feast. And also, you

1:02:21

know, from what I understand, part

1:02:24

of the calculation, like Michael Thompson

1:02:27

was begging this guy to come play

1:02:29

for the Lakers, his father. Can't imagine

1:02:31

why. He got offered more money to

1:02:33

go play for the Lakers, but he's on

1:02:36

a revenge tour. He wanted to join a

1:02:38

team that he thinks can win

1:02:40

the championship. And guess what? They just came from

1:02:42

the finals, right? I think

1:02:44

he's going to be highly motivated. And I think

1:02:47

he'll be pretty adaptable too. I don't think he's

1:02:49

going to be like whatever. He's on a mission

1:02:51

to show that like, I still got something and

1:02:54

you know, I'm on a team that's ready to

1:02:56

compete for a championship ASAP. I

1:02:58

want to say another thing about Klay too,

1:03:01

as it relates to the switching defenses and

1:03:03

really this kind of pervasive idea that he's

1:03:05

going to be a standstill park in the

1:03:08

corner kind of shooter alongside Luka Doncic that

1:03:10

I've seen bubbling up already. The

1:03:13

Mavs have tried, and I repeat tried

1:03:15

and did run a lot of motion

1:03:18

action for Tim Hardaway Jr. over the

1:03:20

years. He's just Tim Hardaway

1:03:22

Jr. And there are some nights where he

1:03:24

would pop off for 30 and there's some nights where he would go

1:03:26

over on 10 attempts. I'm not

1:03:28

saying Klay Thompson isn't going to have bad

1:03:30

shooting nights, but the level of threat projection

1:03:32

that you're talking about, even if the Mavs

1:03:34

just run the same stuff that they have

1:03:36

run going back three or four seasons now,

1:03:39

will be incredibly effective with Klay Thompson as a

1:03:41

part of it. Just simple, you

1:03:43

know, Spain pick and roll or kind of

1:03:45

three man orchestrations with a pick and roll

1:03:47

plus Klay kind of mucking things up or

1:03:50

challenging the judgment of the defenders in those

1:03:52

situations. It's obviously easier if it's a

1:03:54

more conventional look with the big who gets caught

1:03:56

in that mix. But even if teams are trying to

1:03:58

switch all of that stuff. It's gonna get really murky

1:04:00

and really complicated as they try to figure out

1:04:02

wait Am I supposed to go up with clay Thompson

1:04:04

as he flares up to the top of the floor?

1:04:07

One of the best shooters to ever live or do

1:04:09

I need to stay here in the hope that?

1:04:11

I am the only line of defense against Luca Doncha

1:04:13

driving to the basket like those problems are gonna present

1:04:15

themselves in ways that Are much more complicated than clay

1:04:18

on the weak side Yeah,

1:04:20

I kind of sped through the clay aspect of it

1:04:22

because like a fucking blogger I just wanted to talk

1:04:24

about quitting Grimes and not as you know, but like

1:04:28

But I do think the clay

1:04:30

signing was was pretty impressive He

1:04:33

still shot 39% from three

1:04:36

on nine attempts per game last year Like

1:04:38

there are levels to where he is He

1:04:40

is not the version that we were used

1:04:42

to seeing and I also feel like freeing

1:04:45

himself of that is Going to lead a

1:04:47

lot more people to appreciate what he can

1:04:49

still provide which is lights out shooting unlike

1:04:51

we've seen Probably an NBA history outside of

1:04:53

some of the other guys that he played

1:04:56

with in Golden State And so like the

1:04:58

fact that the maps can use him in

1:05:00

a variety of ways and maybe aren't beholden

1:05:02

to Starting him even

1:05:05

we'll see how that plays out I think it's just

1:05:07

gonna be to the benefit of him and the rest

1:05:09

of the team So the thing

1:05:11

about clay it's hard for me to

1:05:13

divorce the best version of clay from

1:05:16

who he is now because Just

1:05:19

for context folks gotta understand that like

1:05:21

in Against

1:05:24

Russell Westbrook who was the most

1:05:27

athletic player probably in the NBA

1:05:29

at that moment clay Thompson Guarded

1:05:31

this man on an island by

1:05:34

himself While also being

1:05:36

somebody who could go off for

1:05:38

40 in a game six on

1:05:40

three dribbles Like this dude was

1:05:43

such a unique player

1:05:45

man Like that combination

1:05:48

of what he could do to

1:05:50

defenses with his shooting ability his

1:05:52

movement and just shut down Defensive

1:05:55

player, you know was just insane and

1:05:57

it's just he's just not that anymore

1:05:59

but like the shooting part make no

1:06:01

mistake this fool could still shoot the

1:06:03

hell out of a basketball man Yeah,

1:06:07

and I think there's still a lot of offseason to

1:06:09

go I'll say it again

1:06:11

still day four of free agency so we don't

1:06:13

know sounds sounds like Denver might load up and

1:06:16

get Russell Westbrook in there, so It

1:06:19

does feel like there's like a cheer Forming

1:06:22

here where it's like, okay see

1:06:25

Minnesota Dallas seemed to be on another level

1:06:27

at least on paper at this point in

1:06:29

the offseason than all those other teams Yeah,

1:06:32

Dallas to put it in context 50

1:06:35

win team last year with significant

1:06:38

injuries So with all

1:06:40

of these improvements and assuming that there are

1:06:42

guys in particular Kyrie can stay healthy more

1:06:44

consistently Maybe that's an assumption and

1:06:46

it's something that'll just like fall flat on its face

1:06:48

But if that is the case, I

1:06:51

would expect them to be a dramatically better regular season

1:06:53

team By all kind of metrics of performance whether you

1:06:55

want to look at wins Raiding all

1:06:57

that made their trade they got way better Also,

1:07:00

like that happened took him a while to figure

1:07:02

that out as well It took a couple weeks

1:07:04

before they even starting the right guys. So yeah,

1:07:07

they're gonna be sick next year Do you guys lean one

1:07:09

way over another team? I know it's still pretty early, but

1:07:13

This is kind of okay. See

1:07:15

is probably on paper the most

1:07:17

talented Especially when

1:07:19

you consider the potential for their young

1:07:22

guys to make great improvements

1:07:24

as young guys are wont to do

1:07:27

Yeah, but you know, yeah

1:07:29

No for me, I'm the old head like

1:07:31

the great beard man, like you gotta go

1:07:33

through it a few more times I'm held

1:07:35

Boston with the six conference finals before they

1:07:37

could break through Okay, and so

1:07:40

for that I'm holding that against them as

1:07:42

the youth but on paper Like

1:07:44

when you talk about Chet and Shay

1:07:46

and j-dub and you know Caruso

1:07:49

and Hartenstein and the Wiggins and

1:07:51

I say like dork like

1:07:54

this is crazy The

1:07:56

amount of legit NBA guys next

1:07:58

to an MVP He can't like,

1:08:00

you know, a guy who was on

1:08:02

the cusp of all-star consideration in

1:08:05

chat, like, bruh, this is a crazy

1:08:08

talented team, but you know, young

1:08:10

guys, I wanna see it again. So I still,

1:08:12

I'll still give Dallas the light nudge

1:08:15

over them. That was kind of my

1:08:17

question is I get the skepticism about

1:08:19

younger teams in general, but there

1:08:21

aren't a lot of like compelling

1:08:23

cases, gray beard type cases

1:08:26

out there, right? The nuggets lost some of

1:08:28

their greatest beers. It's not. Minnesota

1:08:30

has to figure out a lot themselves. I'm

1:08:33

inclined to lean OKC as far as the best team

1:08:36

in the West right now. Number

1:08:38

one seed in the West, they added elite

1:08:40

perimeter talent on defense. They added a high

1:08:42

level rim protector. That series

1:08:44

against Dallas was pretty damn close to begin with.

1:08:46

And they got meaningfully better just as the Mavericks

1:08:48

did. And they have a little bit of a

1:08:51

case to improve internally in a way that makes

1:08:53

more sense. I know Derek Lively and guys like

1:08:55

that are gonna get better, but Chet Holmgren, Shay,

1:08:58

their whole young core, J-Dub and OKC,

1:09:00

is gonna take a meaningful step. And that's gonna

1:09:02

be a scary thing, whether they got Caruso or

1:09:05

Hardenstein or not. I

1:09:07

would almost split the difference where the

1:09:09

fact that OKC just augmented what it

1:09:11

has by just getting

1:09:14

kind of the perfect fits to

1:09:16

round out that core with Hardenstein

1:09:18

and then Caruso is kind of

1:09:20

remarkable. And the fact that they

1:09:23

did so without ever using a draft pick is

1:09:25

just almost like a cherry on top. It's almost

1:09:27

like a real fuck you from Sam Presti. I

1:09:30

think the one thing is just obviously seeing Chet

1:09:32

and J-Dub kind of push past whatever wall they

1:09:34

hit for young players in the playoffs. And so

1:09:36

for that reason, I would probably lean Mavericks right

1:09:38

now, but I also think it's in them to

1:09:40

do so. And I would not be shocked at

1:09:42

all if they did that next season. So it's

1:09:45

gonna be a fun race in the West. Let's

1:09:47

talk about just before we go here,

1:09:49

the top of the East because Donovan

1:09:51

Mitchell was the big deal of two

1:09:54

days ago when he signed

1:09:56

his extension three years, 150

1:09:58

million with the player option. in year

1:10:00

three. I think the most interesting thing for

1:10:03

us that came out of this is that

1:10:05

Donovan Mitchell is functionally LeBron James for the

1:10:07

Cavs. And by that, I mean he just

1:10:11

gets to do whatever he wants. This

1:10:14

is the line in ESPN News that

1:10:16

I thought was really interesting. A significant

1:10:18

part of Mitchell's belief in committing on

1:10:20

a new deal comes with his and

1:10:22

his representatives' confidence in the organization to

1:10:24

keep building the Cavaliers into a championship

1:10:27

contender and an alignment on a partnership

1:10:29

of how they'll play a part in

1:10:31

doing it together, sources said.

1:10:34

And I guess what you could read into

1:10:37

that word salad there is just Donovan Mitchell

1:10:39

is going to have his way. And

1:10:42

so it's kind of surprising

1:10:44

that we've got here, gotten here, but

1:10:46

like, I don't know. I

1:10:49

guess it's for the best if you've just

1:10:51

traded so many goddamn picks and players to

1:10:54

get to this point to begin with. This

1:10:57

is a good outcome for the Cavs. I

1:10:59

know Donovan Mitchell is not the superstar

1:11:01

of all superstars, but having Donovan Mitchell

1:11:04

sure beats not having Donovan Mitchell. And

1:11:07

if his input is something that is valid, like

1:11:09

having input on transactions or I don't know to

1:11:11

what extent he was in on Kenny Atkinson being

1:11:13

the new head coach of the Cavs. You

1:11:16

think that's a good thing too? I don't think

1:11:18

it's a bad thing. Kenny Atkinson's

1:11:20

a good coach. Woz's face, which

1:11:23

is like he's doing the rocks,

1:11:25

like eyebrow thing virtually

1:11:28

all of the rocks points.

1:11:30

Yeah, it's pretty good. Look,

1:11:32

I just, I'm just glad that a star

1:11:35

and a player can have quote an alignment

1:11:37

on a partnership of how they'll play a

1:11:39

part in doing it together. End quote. That's

1:11:41

all I'm excited to see people working together. Look,

1:11:46

yes, it's a good thing that the

1:11:48

Cavs, you got to give shouts to

1:11:50

Kobe Altman and his staff and crew

1:11:53

for convincing Donovan Mitchell that staying with

1:11:56

the team on another deal was a

1:11:58

good idea. Shouts

1:12:01

to them for getting Kenny Atkinson, who's a

1:12:03

coach that I have a lot of respect

1:12:05

for. Like, for what the work

1:12:07

that he, not just his reputation, the work

1:12:09

that he put in with Brooklyn, those teams

1:12:12

overachieved while he was coaching. There's

1:12:14

no doubt about that. You

1:12:17

know, I'm gonna always raise

1:12:19

my eyebrow at the idea

1:12:21

that guys

1:12:24

who aren't Luca, Jokic,

1:12:27

Giannis, Steph, Lebron,

1:12:31

level guys having

1:12:33

organizational input. That's

1:12:35

ridiculous to me. I'm sorry. Like, I

1:12:38

don't see why I would give Devin

1:12:40

Booker, a player who I

1:12:42

love, a level of

1:12:44

Devin Booker, like, yo, you get the

1:12:46

run of my organization, why? Okay,

1:12:49

I don't know that anyone is saying he gets

1:12:51

the run of the organization. But

1:12:53

he's got organizational input. He gets

1:12:55

to file some memos. You

1:13:00

know, we're gonna take his opinions under

1:13:02

advisement. Okay, okay. It's technically an alignment

1:13:04

on a partnership of how they'll play

1:13:06

in part doing it together. That's

1:13:09

exactly what it is. No,

1:13:12

I think that is the big question. How

1:13:14

much is his influence going to lead to

1:13:16

the changes throughout the rest of

1:13:18

the roster? We're kind of at the point where we've

1:13:20

reached Occam's Razor with a lot of these teams. And

1:13:22

I'm almost at the point where it's like, are we

1:13:24

really trading Darius Garland at this point? First of all,

1:13:26

who is trading for Darius Garland? It doesn't seem to

1:13:29

be like a clear cut fit unless you want to

1:13:31

get into like the San Antonio thing. But they've kind

1:13:33

of signaled that that's not what they're about right now.

1:13:36

And I also wonder if you bring in Kenny

1:13:38

Atkinson, who has been fairly creative as a coach

1:13:40

and I thought was kind of given the short

1:13:42

shaft in Brooklyn when Kyrie and Katie wanted to

1:13:44

change things up there. Like, do

1:13:46

we give him half a season at the

1:13:48

very least to maybe reimagine the partnership between

1:13:51

Mitchell before we get rid of Garland? I

1:13:53

mean, same thing with Mobley and Allen. Do

1:13:55

we need to get rid of Allen or

1:13:57

can we just try to figure things out

1:13:59

on the fly and then maybe do it

1:14:01

at the deadline? and can the new boss

1:14:03

of the organization be convinced of an alternative

1:14:05

way to play? I

1:14:07

don't know. This is what I'm saying.

1:14:09

Like, like- You think you

1:14:12

need to convince Donovan Mitchell to have the ball on

1:14:14

his hands more? Well,

1:14:16

that's the thing. Like, I think what would

1:14:18

take them to the stratosphere would be him

1:14:21

being better without the ball. Well, sure. You

1:14:24

know, and like- I don't think

1:14:26

anybody disagrees with you, the Cavs and-

1:14:28

I don't think owners of organizations who

1:14:30

aren't Steph Curry, basically, player owners. They

1:14:32

don't really- They don't voluntarily

1:14:35

do this kind of stuff. But,

1:14:37

you know, I've been wrong before,

1:14:39

you know? God

1:14:42

knows this playoffs I was. I'm

1:14:46

just not sure Donovan Mitchell has reached team

1:14:48

governor status yet. I

1:14:50

see this as a statement of value

1:14:52

and of influence that is, sure,

1:14:55

above and beyond other players

1:14:57

on the team. For sure. Beyond

1:15:00

Jared Allen. Is he running the place? I

1:15:02

don't necessarily see it that way. And I

1:15:05

agree with your overall framing, Justin, that you hire

1:15:07

Kenny Atkinson, and part of the value in doing

1:15:09

that is giving him some time to see what

1:15:11

he can do with this same group of players,

1:15:13

right? You're not making huge changes to the roster

1:15:15

just yet. You're making changes to

1:15:17

the way that those players are viewed and that

1:15:19

their roles might be viewed and the ways they

1:15:21

might be deployed. And maybe you can convince Donovan

1:15:24

Mitchell to do a little bit more off-ball or

1:15:26

to play a different kind of role. And maybe

1:15:28

you can find a capacity for the bigs to

1:15:30

play together. Atkinson has coached Jared Allen before, is

1:15:32

as familiar with his game and his skillset as

1:15:34

anybody. And to trade Darius

1:15:36

Garland now, frankly, even aside from the market,

1:15:38

would just be trading low on a very

1:15:40

talented point guard. So yeah, keep him, keep

1:15:42

both of them, as far as I'm concerned,

1:15:45

see what you can do, give it a

1:15:47

couple months, and then we'll check

1:15:49

in, as I'm sure we will, many, many times throughout

1:15:51

the season to see what the Cavs are and should

1:15:53

be doing. They're just stuck

1:15:55

in this nebula zone where it's

1:15:57

like you trade one, it just... even

1:16:00

more problems that would probably make me like

1:16:02

them less depending on what came back. Where

1:16:05

it's like, I think Mobley probably should be playing

1:16:07

five this year. But then it's

1:16:09

like, are we going to really trot out

1:16:12

a defensive lineup that includes Donovan Mitchell, Darius

1:16:14

Garland, and Evan Mobley at the five? Like

1:16:16

it's a very small team to power through

1:16:18

a regular season. As much as I like

1:16:20

Mobley and think he's a potential like all

1:16:23

defensive player of the year type

1:16:25

of guy. He was already on the ballot two years ago. He

1:16:28

is just like, that doesn't

1:16:30

really work for me over the course of

1:16:33

a full season. So like, why not maybe

1:16:35

take a half measure, play more lineups

1:16:37

with it this year and

1:16:39

then go for it. But Mitchell's only

1:16:41

here for another three years. And

1:16:44

one of those is a player option. So there is a

1:16:46

certain clock to it all. And so I'm

1:16:48

having as hard a time figuring them out as anyone.

1:16:52

We've been here. We've lived with

1:16:54

these Cavs for a long time. I think

1:16:56

we're all familiar with their quandaries, unfortunately. All

1:17:00

right. Why don't we wrap it there?

1:17:02

Thank you to Eddie Ocampo, who's doing

1:17:04

everything for us today, apparently. So we

1:17:06

appreciate him stepping up as our franchise

1:17:09

player. We'll be back on Sunday as

1:17:11

per usual. We'll see you then. All

1:17:13

right. Virginia

1:17:50

and Vermont. Call 1-800-NEXT-STEP or text NEXTSTEP

1:17:52

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1:17:55

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in Indiana 1-800-789-7777. Visit

1:18:04

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