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Did you know the average child spends

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less than 10 minutes a day playing

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outside? Trust for Public Land is working

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with local communities nationwide to connect more

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at tpl.org/Earth Month. That's tpl.org/Earth

0:32

Month. One

0:34

thing I've learned about presidential campaigns is

0:37

that you'll almost never catch a candidate in New

0:39

York City. Unless, of course,

0:42

they need to raise some money. And

0:46

last week, that was the case

0:49

when three U.S. presidents Biden, Obama,

0:51

and Clinton, all

0:54

gathered at Radio City Music Hall for

0:57

what the Biden campaign called, quote, the

0:59

most successful political fundraiser in

1:01

American history. And

1:04

we just have to take the word for it, in

1:06

part because we weren't able to get in. But

1:08

here's the gist. Tickets started at $250 on

1:10

the low end and $100,000 on the high end, which

1:16

got you a photo with all three presidents and

1:18

entrance to a private reception. There

1:21

were performances by Queen Latifah, Lizzo,

1:24

and an appearance from Stephen Colbert. In

1:27

the end, the campaign says it raised more

1:29

than $25 million. But

1:33

this wasn't just another gathering of the rich and

1:35

famous. It's an example

1:37

of something the Biden campaign has done really

1:39

well, courting big donors

1:42

and just in general, raising a lot

1:44

of money. In

1:47

February alone, the Biden campaign

1:49

and the Democratic Party raised $53 million,

1:53

bringing their total cash on hand as of

1:55

the beginning of March to $155 million. That's

2:00

more than 50 million ahead of where

2:02

Donald Trump and the RNC say their

2:04

current fundraising totals are, which,

2:07

theoretically, should allow Biden's

2:09

campaign to build out a more

2:11

robust operation than their opponents. But

2:14

to this point, Biden's money

2:17

advantage is yet to solve his

2:19

political problems, like

2:21

weak poll numbers against Trump, continued

2:23

concerns about his advanced age, and

2:26

the enduring critiques of the administration's role in

2:28

the war in Gaza. That

2:30

cropped up at Radio City, when

2:32

activists disrupted the event several times.

2:36

So, with the general election in its early

2:38

stages, I wanted to check in

2:40

on the dollars and cents of 2024, on

2:44

Biden's impressive totals, Trump's

2:46

financial situation, and all

2:48

the things money can't buy. Today,

2:51

it's all about the Benjamins. From

2:55

The New York Times, I'm Estet Herndon. This

2:57

is the run-up. So,

3:02

I've been going to political fundraisers

3:04

for over two decades, and

3:07

I will tell you that night was electric. I

3:10

wanted to talk with someone who did get in to

3:12

that Radio City event, and solve

3:15

it with some, like, snoopy questions, like, did

3:17

you see anybody cool, or were

3:19

the, like, biggest celebrities of the presidents themselves?

3:23

Well, without a question, you know, the

3:25

biggest celebrities of the presidents. This

3:27

is Robert Wolff. He sat in

3:29

the orchestra. I have to admit,

3:31

you know, for me, I went with my wife, and

3:33

it felt like a great date night. You

3:36

know, we don't come to the city all that

3:38

often, and so it was

3:40

great to see, you know, Queen Latifah

3:42

before, and Lizzo, and Ben Platt, and

3:45

people that, you know, I wouldn't necessarily

3:47

go see perform. And obviously, Colbert, as

3:49

the moderator, you know, he's gonna be

3:52

funny, right? There's a lot of tongue-in-cheek

3:54

there. So for me, it was

3:56

kind of like, it was just a fun night.

3:59

Wolff is a... Democratic fundraiser and

4:02

Wall Street veteran. Most of my

4:04

career I was on Wall Street at Solomon

4:06

Brothers for about a decade and

4:09

then I moved to UBS where I was there

4:12

18 years as the former CEO and

4:14

chairman of the Americas and

4:17

president and COO of the investment

4:19

bank globally. Wolf was

4:21

an early fundraiser for Obama, an informal

4:24

advisor to his presidential campaign and

4:27

like a lot of big donors. He

4:29

later served in Obama's administration including

4:32

on the economic recovery advisory board

4:35

after the 2008 financial crisis. He's

4:38

also what's been called a bundler. I

4:41

can't say I love the

4:43

name but bundler

4:45

is you raise money and then

4:47

you raise other people so let's

4:49

just say I am

4:51

going to an event and I

4:53

asked 10 other people to give you know

4:56

10 grand each and they do then

4:59

Robert Wolf will have not only

5:01

his 10 grand assigned to him

5:03

but also that extra 100 grand

5:06

and if you raise x amount of money

5:08

you get invited to fun things. It's

5:11

a way to supercharge your ability to

5:13

donate as an organizer of other people's

5:15

money along with your own. Correct and

5:18

I'm not a bundler today. Now

5:20

Wolf serves on the Biden

5:22

campaign's national finance committee an

5:24

elite group of some of its biggest donors. So

5:28

he's well known in democratic circles and

5:30

is well appreciated for his insights

5:32

and his wallet. I thought

5:35

he would be a good person to give me the lay of the land

5:37

when it comes to big money in politics. How

5:40

does it work and what should we

5:42

expect when it comes to big donors and President

5:44

Biden? So I had the

5:46

honor of seeing President Biden where

5:49

I was able to chat with him in January

5:51

out of fundraiser in New York City. For me

5:53

I'm not there to ask for anything. Okay

5:56

I'm there to thank him to

5:58

let him know you know. Thank him

6:00

what he's doing on gun violence or thanking what

6:03

he's doing with respect to Ukraine My

6:05

wife and how does that how much money does

6:08

that take it was expensive? Can I know how

6:10

much I think I Think

6:13

we wrote a check that night

6:17

It was high I

6:22

mean listen you can I checks as low

6:24

as a dollar and ten dollars I think

6:26

we wrote a check for like fifty thousand.

6:29

Okay dinner. Okay We've

6:32

we've spent money on politics over the last

6:34

20 years I was one of the question

6:36

I have is just how much Have

6:39

you spent do you think an aggregate and is

6:41

there a single thing? Is there is the $50,000

6:43

the most use written for? I think no, what's

6:46

the most one check you've written? I

6:48

think it was a hundred thousand for

6:50

what campaign Hillary's for Hillary's Yeah, and

6:52

how much do you think you've probably

6:54

given an aggregate? You

6:58

know, I think you can look

7:00

at the non-pack side or non-committee

7:02

side I mean my

7:05

guess is an aggregate. I mean my guess

7:07

is in excess of a million dollars. We've

7:09

given How did you get

7:11

into a political like giving and

7:13

fundraising period? Well, I appreciate that

7:17

You know back in The

7:19

early 2000s for the most

7:22

part it was called fire Finance insurance

7:24

and real estate And if you looked

7:26

at everyone giving the top

7:28

people the top companies were either finance

7:30

insurance or real estate at that time

7:33

You know, I was a senior executive

7:35

at UBS, you know being on

7:37

Wall Street being a senior executive It got you

7:39

the opportunity to meet a lot of people. So

7:41

I got involved early Specifically with

7:44

the Kerry campaign. Okay, I was anti

7:46

Bush. I was against the war I

7:48

had two young boys and I just

7:50

felt like at that time, you know,

7:52

it's not the direction I wanted to

7:54

go And so I got very

7:56

active with Kerry and then it's the list

7:59

you can't get off If you can get me

8:01

off of, let me know how. But it's the gift that

8:03

keeps on giving. And then I hosted

8:05

the first fundraiser for President,

8:07

then Senator Obama, in

8:09

New York in March of 07. We

8:12

raised a ton of money, and I

8:15

became one of his biggest fundraisers nationally.

8:17

Again, I guess, does that just like,

8:19

you just text your phone and say,

8:21

hey, I have this politician. I think

8:23

he's really interesting. What's actually the process

8:26

of translating your interest in somebody

8:28

to a larger group, and then the money

8:30

part? Yeah, so it was interesting. In 2007,

8:32

most of the Democratic Party was all in

8:35

Hillary. I

8:39

was able to meet Obama. I

8:41

aligned with a lot. It was like

8:43

that brocard. We're

8:46

both Ivy League guys. We both like sports. His

8:49

mother died of cancer. My dad was going through

8:51

cancer. All those things. She was against the war

8:53

part was big, too, especially. And then against the

8:56

war. And so what happened

8:58

was I just invited people like,

9:00

hey, you should meet this guy. And they all knew

9:02

of him from the 2004 convention. And

9:05

so with his famous speech, it's not red state,

9:08

blue state, whether the United States, so on and

9:10

so forth. And so what happened

9:12

was I became that

9:14

guy. People at law firms wanted

9:16

to meet him, even if it was just

9:18

to meet him or get their book signed,

9:20

that he had a destiny of hope or

9:24

take a picture with him. People wanted to get

9:26

to know this guy. And

9:28

it was a cheap date back then. It was only like $2,100. And

9:33

so they could meet him at

9:35

a fairly accessible price. Exactly. Is

9:38

it access driven? Like when you're

9:40

saying people want to sign a book, they want

9:42

to meet him, what is the incentive if

9:45

we're thinking about why people want to

9:47

give? I mean, politics is an aphrodisiac.

9:50

You're the most powerful person in the world. At

9:52

that time, most people did

9:54

not get the opportunity to meet a president

9:56

in their life. And here's a possibility to

9:59

meet someone. that could become the president. I

10:01

get what you're saying. Particularly when you were

10:04

getting started, what you were able

10:06

to connect people with is an ability to meet people

10:08

they wanted to, and they

10:11

have the means and access to be able to do

10:13

it through you. Yes, I mean, I became kind of

10:15

that guy. I mean, I guess, again, I'm still thinking

10:17

kind of broadly before we talk about Biden specifically. What

10:21

is the brand like for Democrats among Wall

10:23

Street right now, and how has that shifted

10:25

maybe over the time in which we're talking?

10:28

I think it was always about

10:30

40% were staunch Democrats, 40%

10:34

were staunch Republicans because of

10:36

Reaganomics, which is when I

10:38

started Wall Street in the 80s, and 20% would

10:40

go either way. That's kind

10:42

of surprising to me. I think of that as

10:44

more of a Republican crowd maybe. It's not because

10:46

there's a lot of other issues important

10:49

to them, and not everyone votes with their

10:51

pocketbook. I know that. They view

10:54

us as banksters, instead

10:57

of bankers. But what

11:00

I would say is that I

11:03

would say when it was McCain Obama, it

11:05

was clearly Obama got, I'd say 100% of

11:07

the 20%. When

11:11

it was Romney Obama, I would say

11:13

Romney was the majority of Wall Street.

11:15

He was kind of a Wall Street

11:17

guy, knew him all. I

11:20

think with Clinton and Trump, in my

11:22

opinion, I think Hillary and Bill just

11:25

are so well-liked in New York. My

11:30

gut tells me there were Republicans that

11:32

went her way, not for Trump as

11:34

well. And

11:36

then on the Biden-Trump, it's hard to

11:39

even assess because it was such a

11:41

crazy period. There was no real campaign.

11:44

I was gonna ask you about that. And I guess

11:47

I'm asking about right now, too. Is there a sense,

11:49

I've heard you previously talk about the

11:51

ways that you think the progressive wing

11:54

of Democrats has become too anti-Wall Street.

11:56

I'm wondering, were you few the Biden

11:58

Democratic Party on that? question and

12:01

do you think that the party right now

12:03

makes it easy for you to pitch them

12:05

to your fellow Wall Street folks? I mean

12:07

honestly I don't think we're front and center.

12:09

Wall Street's not who it

12:12

was and what it was. You know you

12:14

can raise money from anywhere in almost

12:17

any sector there is. I

12:19

mean media companies and everyone,

12:22

tech companies, I don't have

12:24

to tell you how many firms now lie.

12:26

Yeah I guess that's part of what I'm

12:29

asking. Yeah small dollar donations has the ability

12:31

to raise money from other firms. Yeah grassroots

12:33

are, it's more important to get grassroots money

12:35

than you know my couple grand

12:37

or whatever I give a little more than

12:40

that. But you

12:42

know what I would say is that

12:44

first of all Wall Street wants to

12:46

give their economic view they don't like

12:48

necessarily to get in the middle of

12:50

the riffraff because I think they're nervous

12:52

about being the meme or being in

12:55

a polarizing environment with their employees right.

12:59

I think voting is

13:01

very personal today

13:04

and there is no generic

13:06

Wall Street voter anymore. This

13:08

idea that you know

13:11

the progressives think that Wall Street's voting

13:13

with their pocketbook I think is BS.

13:16

You know they may care about climate more

13:18

than the progressives care about climate or they

13:20

may care about gun reform. Gun reform for

13:22

me is front and center. My

13:25

wife works at Sandy Hook Promise on

13:27

gun violence prevention and mental health and so

13:29

gun violence for me is front and center.

13:31

So y'all are one issue voters. Yeah

13:34

I would say there is no one issue

13:36

voter. It used to be because of Reaganomics

13:38

right, taxes right or

13:41

anti-regulation that's changed dramatically.

13:44

You know the other thing and this is going

13:46

to get some kind of Biden specifically is like

13:48

we have been talking to so many people about

13:50

how this election puts them in a kind of

13:52

pickle because for the majority of Americans they want

13:55

you know they talk about wanting other options or

13:57

Just being not happy with having the

13:59

same options. since the get. When

14:02

you're in those circles, hours house like out

14:04

of your community feeling about by the. right?

14:06

Now a are you wish community I'm for

14:08

That's a good question as I have two

14:11

sons in their late twenties and our leaders

14:13

of our me a very different conversation with

14:15

we do that we have a hair that

14:17

answer but I'm really specific to I was

14:19

thinking specific the fundraiser like is it's. Easy

14:22

to raise money for by the marina. The.

14:26

Answer's yes, it's easy because

14:28

I'm there's. now a campaign

14:30

August. It's Trump Verse Biden.

14:33

Arm and President Biden.

14:36

Was. Not candidate biden. So.

14:39

This whole idea of democratic bad

14:41

weather's or hey, he's gotta get

14:43

out I was totally the other

14:45

way I, in my opinion. You.

14:47

Know that that? Transition.

14:50

To be coming more of the candidates took

14:52

place at the state of the union is

14:55

and that stated the union and my opinion.

14:57

I thought he was fantastic. I think he

14:59

has a hot the next step. I love

15:01

that he's now out in about a like

15:04

that com Ela Vice President Harris I'm so

15:06

I've known her along. that was I guess

15:08

I think I love that she's out in

15:10

about and now we're in a campaign People

15:13

A more active and engaged yes I said

15:15

senior. I like the are

15:17

pointing to state of the union as that hands point because it

15:19

did feel like. There was like the bed wetting

15:21

has reached it's peak right before that, right?

15:24

Like there was whether it was the or

15:26

Aids questions from the special counsel, Whether it

15:28

was a kind of polling because I was

15:30

getting i want to go up as I

15:33

want to hear about people were people. Do.

15:35

you are you someone who feels the

15:37

anc when he blurring see it was

15:40

insane i was getting calls you know

15:42

why is he running do you think

15:44

he should run hey he's running let's

15:46

not even have that discussion let's talk

15:49

about he's running and who is gonna

15:51

be competing against and let's put all

15:53

of our inner in xiety into helping

15:56

him whence but i was fielding calls

15:58

non because listen people were saying You

16:00

know president Trump and Nikki Haley. They

16:02

were in campaign mode. Yeah, so Yes,

16:05

I was fielding it as said non-stop

16:08

age specifically or other stuff. I think

16:10

other stuff. I think age I think

16:14

there was just You know Listen,

16:17

there was a nervousness, you know, can anyone beat

16:19

Trump? The answer is yes And

16:21

now we're in a situation where it's

16:24

much more mono a mono and

16:26

we now have choices to make Yeah,

16:28

and forget about what was let's look

16:30

at what is let me ask

16:32

something different. Yeah Why aren't

16:35

your sons convinced? My sons

16:37

are very convinced Okay that

16:39

they will be voting for President Biden

16:41

versus President Trump But we

16:43

were talking you and I about the

16:45

excitement and the issues. Yeah, you know

16:47

our dinner table issues are about you know

16:51

You know Gaza and humanitarian. There's a big

16:53

debate going on in the Gen Z

16:56

Generation verse the older generation. There's

16:58

a debate going on, you know

17:00

on climate action verse I'm for

17:03

I'm glad that we're energy independent

17:05

like these debates are becoming talked

17:07

about more and more often Because

17:10

I said to you this idea that democracy is

17:12

on the line or these cultural issues are more

17:14

front and center They are more front and center.

17:16

I would have never thought when I was 27

17:19

or 29 and a half years old like my boys

17:21

I don't think about the things they

17:23

think about today Because you

17:26

know, they weren't front and center to me

17:30

one question I have is like do you see what

17:32

you do in terms of raising money as as

17:35

helping them get there to kind

17:38

of close that enthusiasm gap like Well,

17:40

how do you actually view the role

17:42

of like fundraising versus the work that

17:44

they have to do to pull this

17:46

off money's critical Let's not

17:48

underestimate that. Yes, both sides

17:50

will be able to have a lot of money

17:53

but Getting out the vote

17:56

getting data having the right

17:58

research being both on

18:01

paid media and promoted media. Having

18:04

a bunch of people work with

18:06

the grassroots, that's important. To think

18:08

that politics isn't local, to

18:11

think that you can do this national campaign and

18:13

win, that's

18:17

complete BS. People are tuning out.

18:20

Most people cut the cord. So the

18:22

people that you have to get to, you gotta be local.

18:25

So this idea that raising 26 million

18:28

is anything other than fantastic is ridiculous. Interesting,

18:30

because you know right now there's a lot

18:32

of talk about how Trump can't raise a

18:34

lot of money. How much do we think

18:37

a money advantage matters? How much

18:39

does a money disadvantage matter? You know Donald Trump has

18:41

no problem getting on media, right, like he has no

18:43

problem in that type of space. What do you think

18:45

the money advantage can do for Biden, what do you

18:47

hope is? So I think there's a bunch to unpack

18:49

there. Yes,

18:52

Donald Trump in some ways

18:54

owns the airwaves. You wake up to him,

18:56

you go to sleep to him. But those

18:58

are national airwaves. That's not where

19:00

voting gets done. So

19:02

the answer is yes. It's

19:04

important to localize the campaign.

19:06

It's important to tell someone

19:09

in a certain area how

19:11

they're helping your wages, or how they're helping with

19:15

climate action, or why it's important

19:17

that you're doing red flag laws

19:19

in certain states on gun violence.

19:22

The second part I would say is don't

19:26

underestimate President Trump. He's gonna

19:28

be able to raise his money. I've said

19:30

this the other day, Mar-a-Lago is not some

19:32

homeless shelter. Okay, so it's not

19:34

like he doesn't have billionaires okay

19:36

sitting there. The rumors

19:39

of Trump is broke or overblown. I

19:41

mean that's complete BS, right? Because you're

19:43

gonna have, his

19:46

tax policy is gonna be front and center.

19:49

And so these billionaires, that

19:52

some do vote one dimensional,

19:55

they're gonna make sure that he's got money to

19:57

run on. Yeah,

19:59

this is helpful because. because a lot of what

20:01

we're reading now is about the lack of funds.

20:03

You're saying you trust that in the end, maybe

20:05

it's because of tax policy or just because of

20:08

people's investment in Republicans. Folks

20:11

will give to him. I think, listen, I wanna

20:13

be clear here. I think

20:16

President Biden's gonna out-raise him. I

20:18

think we're gonna out-work him. And

20:20

I think having money early is important for

20:22

building offices. I hear what you're saying. But

20:25

if you're telling me that we don't think

20:27

that there's gonna be money in the RNC

20:29

or the Republican Party for a presidential election

20:31

where the Senate's important and the House is

20:34

important, we're kidding ourselves. Yeah, yeah. When you

20:36

look about the next six months, is there

20:38

a thing that worries you the most for

20:41

the prospect of Biden getting reelected? Listen,

20:44

I think if it's President Biden versus former

20:46

President Trump, I think we're in a good

20:48

seat. I don't think there's

20:50

more people voting for President Trump than in the

20:52

past, and I think it would be less. I

20:56

am worried about the third party situation

20:58

because we saw what happened with

21:00

Secretary Clinton. There was no question

21:03

the third party impacted Secretary Clinton.

21:06

And so, yeah, I'm nervous of

21:09

what a third party can, how

21:11

it impacts us. And if I ask the

21:13

most brilliant people or pollsters in

21:15

the world, they could not give

21:17

me an answer because they don't know. We don't

21:20

know. So, yeah, I'm a Wall Street guy. I

21:22

buy and sell things. I don't live

21:24

great in this gray area. Okay,

21:26

I just don't. And

21:28

this is kind of the last question. I'm

21:30

like, you know, Citizens United, Super PACs, there

21:32

was so much talk about the influence of

21:35

money in politics. What's your assessment of it?

21:37

Do you think campaigns are too

21:39

expensive? Do you think there's too much money in it? Do you

21:41

think that maybe money doesn't matter

21:43

as much as folks saying, and it's

21:45

a little overblown? No, yes, there's way

21:47

too much money in it. It's insane.

21:49

We're gonna spend billions

21:51

and billions of dollars on

21:53

this presidential election, and yeah, there's too

21:55

much money in it. And

21:58

for some, it's transactional being an emba- being

22:00

this that's not where I am but

22:03

I guess to most people this is

22:05

the most important thing that they think

22:07

about you know every four years so

22:10

you know it

22:12

seems like it's too much money at it

22:14

but then again if you're saying the most

22:16

important thing that happens every

22:18

four years I don't know

22:20

it doesn't seem that money for much versus

22:22

our annual GDP yeah yeah here is it

22:25

well thank you I appreciate your time thank you for

22:27

joining us thank you much appreciated after

22:30

the break the other side of the money

22:32

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22:58

comfort of home I'm Anna Martin the

23:00

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23:03

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23:06

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23:08

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23:11

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23:18

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23:56

your podcasts After

24:00

talking to Robert Wolff, I wanted to

24:03

get a bigger picture of the role of money in

24:05

this race, especially on

24:07

the Republican side, where Trump has

24:09

been lagging behind in donations while

24:11

facing mounting legal bills. There's

24:15

also the $175 million bond he just paid,

24:17

the social media company going public, and

24:20

those $60 Bibles he started selling. Well,

24:24

thank you for joining us, sorry. How

24:26

far before it started? No, it's all good. It's all

24:28

good. So

24:31

I brought in my colleague Shane Goldmacher,

24:33

national political correspondent for The Times, and

24:36

the person I usually go to when I

24:38

have questions about money and politics. I

24:40

started by asking him what to

24:42

make of Biden's big money advantage and

24:46

Trump's financial struggles. It's

24:48

a big gap, and I think the issue isn't just

24:50

the size of the gap right now. It's

24:52

the potential size of the gap in the coming

24:54

months, because by all accounts, Democrats

24:56

are expected to raise more money in the

24:59

coming months than Republicans are. So that's the

25:01

gap now, and it's expected to get even

25:03

bigger throughout the rest of the race. What

25:06

is the cause of it? One of them is

25:08

just a general structural cause, which is the candidate

25:10

who's sitting in the White House tends to enter

25:12

the general election with more money. Why

25:14

is that? Just because people like giving money to the president?

25:17

Some of it is people like giving money to the

25:19

president. More important is that they have controlled

25:22

the party apparatus for the three years leading

25:24

up to the beginning of

25:26

the general election. Joe Biden has been raising

25:28

money with the Democratic Party for basically a

25:30

year at this point, and

25:32

it gives you an advantage because Trump was

25:34

raising in much tinier increments just to fight

25:36

through the primary. Just to

25:38

give you a sense of scale, during the

25:41

primary, Donald Trump was raising $3,300 increments.

25:44

So when that Republican primary, that's the most

25:46

he could raise from an individual person into

25:48

his campaign account. Joe Biden was

25:50

going around the country and raising in this

25:52

big mega committee, the shares of the Democratic

25:55

Party, $929,000 increments. You

25:58

end up with a lot more money if you ... and raise in that

26:00

big of a chunk. You're able to ask for more.

26:03

You're able to ask for more. You have smaller donors

26:05

that you can then fund by using those bigger contributions

26:07

to advertise, to get more small donors. It sort of

26:09

builds upon itself. Interesting. Why does

26:11

it cost so much, and increasingly cost

26:13

more, for these campaigns? I mean, theoretically,

26:16

these are two candidates the country knows.

26:18

These aren't people who have name recognition

26:20

problems. Why exactly are campaigns so expensive?

26:23

I mean, the number one answer is

26:25

television ads or the digital version of

26:28

television ads. And look,

26:30

you can spend an enormous amount

26:32

of money on television really,

26:34

really quickly. Just think about Mike Bloomberg's campaign

26:36

when he ran for president, right? He ran

26:38

for president for only a few months, and

26:41

he spent basically a billion dollars.

26:43

He was blanketing the television ads for a

26:45

period, but it is a reminder of how

26:48

high up that number can run. If you're

26:50

buying as many TV ads as you can,

26:53

it's basically an unlimited amount of spending that you

26:56

can go. And so, like, what is the

26:58

driver? The driver's television ads, first and foremost, and

27:00

digital ads that now run on television, right? Like,

27:02

a lot of people are streaming, but

27:05

yeah, running advertising is the overwhelming cost.

27:07

Everything else you hear about, our field

27:09

program, our ground game, it tends

27:11

to be fractions of the dollar spent on

27:13

advertising, on television. So, what is driving that

27:15

big advantage that you're talking about? Do we

27:18

know where the money gap is coming from?

27:20

Is Biden have a specific advantage among small

27:22

donors, big donors? Like, how will we break

27:24

down why he has so

27:27

much more money on hand? I think

27:29

there's important to think about in

27:31

two time frames. The first is right now, and

27:33

I think he has more money right now because

27:36

he's been tapping those bigger institutional donors. Those people

27:38

can give large chunks of money. The big Radio

27:40

City thing we saw last week. Correct, right? They

27:42

had 5,000 people in the room, so there's a

27:44

lot of smaller donors. You know what, there were

27:47

also people raising or giving $100,000 that they were

27:49

gonna get a picture with

27:51

the presidents, right? The next day, he had a smaller gathering

27:53

of 175 of his donors in New York City. Those

27:57

people got sort of personalized briefings the

28:00

entire senior campaign team. How

28:02

much did that cost? You had to, I

28:04

think, at least given 47,000 something dollars. That

28:07

is the entry level. The highest tier

28:10

for his bundlers, $2.5 million. Wow.

28:13

Now if you're raising $2.5 million, you might not be going

28:15

to a big group briefing. You might be getting the president

28:18

visiting your house on a fundraiser, but

28:20

there's enough people that at a roughly $50,000

28:23

limit, you

28:25

still have 175 of them coming to New York for

28:29

that personalized briefing. So your

28:31

first question, where is his advantage right now? It's

28:33

a lot of these major donors. They have been

28:35

tapped. They've built out a whole system. Jill

28:37

Biden, Jill Biden, Kamala Harris, Doug Emhoff.

28:40

They've been traveling around the country at

28:42

events and scooping up big checks, right?

28:45

In the coming months, though, there's

28:48

a wider expectation that Jill Biden's advantage

28:50

will be driven by smaller donors online,

28:52

that online democratic giving

28:54

has become almost habitual

28:57

for liberal donors who are amped

29:00

up about an election. Even about the

29:02

candidates they may not be excited about. They

29:04

give tons of money, right? Key Senate races

29:06

are flooded with money each cycle.

29:08

And whether the Democrats have household name or

29:10

not, they end up raising a lot of money. And

29:13

there's a wide expectation that online, even

29:16

if Democrats aren't enthused about Joe Biden, they're

29:18

gonna be enthused about giving money to

29:21

stop Donald Trump. Okay, okay. Let's focus now

29:23

on Donald Trump, someone who famously

29:26

has a lot of money until he

29:29

doesn't. Why is he struggling in fundraising so much,

29:32

considering he has historically done well with

29:34

small dollar donors? And it

29:36

seems like what you're saying, those donations are slowing

29:38

down. Why is that? Do we know? Yeah,

29:41

I mean, let me give you an answer. I want

29:43

to take one little step back, which is that like

29:45

Trump is facing multiple different financial challenges

29:47

all at once. It's hard to keep them straight.

29:49

It is hard to keep them straight. So number

29:52

one, you're talking about just like politics, like how

29:54

much money does he have in his campaign account?

29:56

And some of that is, look, he just got

29:58

through a nominating contest. and

30:00

he was raising money and spending money

30:03

to win the nomination, now less than

30:05

maybe some others have before, usually

30:07

at the end of that you end up with a little bit less and you have to

30:09

build up. And he hasn't had

30:11

that joint agreement with the Republican Party until

30:13

just now, basically, to raise those bigger chunks

30:15

of money. In fact, he's doing that. Just

30:17

this coming week, he has a big event

30:19

in Palm Beach that they've said they're gonna

30:21

raise 25, 30 million dollars. I

30:24

think they put out the number 33 million dollars

30:26

from a single dinner, because he's getting all

30:28

these people who have not given till now.

30:30

They're gonna come and, you know, a couple,

30:32

right, each member of the couple gives 800,000 dollars, that's

30:34

1.6 million dollars for that couple at that

30:37

dinner. Okay, so this is his answer to

30:39

Radio City. This is his answer, it's his

30:41

coming out party for those mega donor checks.

30:43

It's just coming this week. So

30:46

the first financial challenge is political

30:48

and he just has less money than Joe

30:50

Biden does. The second one is his legal

30:52

bills. And he has been spending, now we've

30:54

reported more than 100 million dollars since he

30:57

left the White House on legal bills, and

30:59

the pot of money he's been tapping for

31:01

that mostly has been this money

31:03

raised in the aftermath of the 2020 election. And

31:06

that money's almost all gone at this point.

31:08

Is that a different pot than the

31:10

money he was spending to win the primary? It

31:13

is, a completely different pot. So what

31:15

happened is, at the end of 2020, he

31:19

loses the election and he says, please

31:21

give to me, dear supporters, this thing

31:23

was rigged. And there's no evidence of

31:26

this yet, but I'm gonna fight this in the

31:28

courts, I'm gonna fight it everywhere I can, my

31:30

election defense fund. And Republican donors gave more money

31:32

to Donald Trump in the post election period of

31:34

2020, than almost

31:36

any period they gave during the actual campaign.

31:38

That is so wild. They were so, you

31:41

know, denying the election result

31:43

paid off for him. He

31:46

raised 250 million dollars online between

31:50

the day after the election And

31:52

the day that Joe Biden was inaugurated. So He spent

31:54

some of that money fighting, recounts, whatever. But you know

31:56

what? he pocketed most of that money, not personally pocketed,

31:59

but he put it. In a political action

32:01

committee and that huge chunk of

32:03

funds paid. Has been paying

32:05

his lawyers ever since then and so

32:07

that money has been spent down slowly

32:09

for we now quickly and quickly. And

32:12

the total amount of money last in

32:14

the account that's been doing that Save

32:16

America Is Political Action Committee is less

32:18

than Five million dollars This point, because

32:21

he's basically tapped out that posts twenty

32:23

twenty surge of money that he got

32:25

through people giving out of the election

32:28

denial space. Correct. Okay, and so he's

32:30

facing not just a political sort fall

32:32

versus Joe Biden, but the legal. Fund

32:34

that he than using to pay. Where's that's

32:36

also. Going. To and for for And

32:38

by the way, he's going on a trial soon. Yeah,

32:40

the cost don't go down Typically when you go on

32:43

a criminal trial and illegal problem have no signs of

32:45

slowing in terms of what the as to. Oh correct.

32:47

So the first one is that political, second, is this

32:49

legal and a third one. We have a little bit

32:51

of resolution right now, but it has been a big

32:53

one. has been like the bond he had to post

32:56

in order to keep all of his businesses active during

32:58

his appeal. On. One of the

33:00

many cases you face which is a

33:02

civil fraud case in New York and

33:04

that's just went down from what I

33:06

understand, The Times reported he posed one

33:08

hundred seventy five million dollar bond with

33:10

a civil fraud case which means that

33:12

the New York authorities can't see says

33:14

while he's appealing that larger four hundred

33:16

fifty million judgements against them to explain

33:18

what that means and more simple terms.

33:20

Jez is that third categories like. Can

33:22

he keep his businesses And can they keep

33:24

running in New York Because the risk was

33:26

that if he could not pay that he

33:28

would have to sell off the businesses to

33:30

pay said judgment? Yes of he has lost

33:33

the case and he's appealing that ruling. And

33:35

under New York law when you lose, you

33:37

still have to pay basically the penalty. And

33:39

so he thanked. The penalty is so big,

33:41

was four hundred and fifty four million dollars

33:43

in so onerous that I can't even get

33:45

a bond to do that And so that

33:47

has been reduced. So now one hundred and

33:49

seventy five million and he has since lined

33:51

up money and so. it's like you're

33:53

borrowing in order to appeal and eventually

33:55

look if he loses a d p

33:57

appellate court levon he loses at the

33:59

final the final court, then he

34:01

will have to make an actual payment, but for now we

34:03

can borrow a bond to like save off. And does that

34:05

actual payment have to be 450 or 175? As

34:09

of now, it's still the 450, but

34:13

some of the legal experts say the fact

34:15

that the bond itself was being reduced is

34:17

maybe a sign that eventually a final judgment

34:19

could be shrunk, but we don't know yet.

34:21

Well, we previously talked to Maggie Haberman about

34:24

how Trump's legal fees were basically consuming the

34:26

campaign in a way that you really just

34:28

laid out for us, but one

34:30

thing I couldn't understand is like, what

34:32

are those possible solutions he has to this? I

34:34

know we have seen some of the efforts with

34:36

things like truth social, his social media company, and

34:38

other ways he's been trying to maneuver. I remember

34:40

hearing about the RNC kind of having an open

34:42

question about whether they would do it. What is

34:44

his best shot to come up with some of

34:46

these answers? I mean, the number one thing

34:48

to remember is that he could, of course, pay for his

34:50

own lawyers with his own money. He's chosen

34:53

not to do so, so far, right? He has

34:55

chosen not to use his own personal finances to

34:57

pay for attorneys. All these buckets are separate from

34:59

Donald Trump's bank account. Like, he could

35:01

choose to use his bank account to solve the issue that

35:04

he's running out of money to pay his lawyers. He's just

35:06

running out of other people's money. It doesn't mean that he

35:08

doesn't have any money left. That is an important reminder. Right?

35:10

Like, he has his own set of money that he

35:13

has chosen not to use to pay his lawyers in

35:15

his multiple criminal cases because he had this big pot

35:17

of money from 2020. So option

35:19

one is you just pay

35:21

for them yourself. There's other more

35:23

complicated options like you

35:25

create a special legal defense fund, what are

35:27

the rules around that if you're an active

35:29

candidate for president? There are other

35:32

ways he can raise money into the pack

35:35

that has been paying the lawyers. And in fact, he's

35:37

done a small thing along those lines. Right? There

35:39

was a little float. Well, will the RNC actually pay its

35:41

legal bills? And they said no. Absolutely

35:43

not. But then that

35:46

first mega committee we talked about, you can

35:48

raise those really big checks. There's a sort

35:50

of order of operations of who gets the

35:52

money. The first always is the candidate. Right?

35:55

The candidate gets the money first. Typically second is the

35:57

party, like the Republican National

35:59

Committee. But in this case, Trump didn't actually put

36:01

the party second. He put his

36:03

pack second. And that pack isn't paying his

36:05

lawyers. So we see Trump coming up with

36:08

these sort of solutions. At this point, if

36:10

I were to give $100 to

36:13

Donald Trump's campaign, do we know how much of

36:15

that is going to save

36:17

America and the legal fees versus how much

36:19

is going to the actual job of winning

36:21

an actual election? Yeah, since early last year,

36:24

10 cents of every dollar that's been

36:26

given online has gone to that Save

36:28

America account, which is paid almost exclusively

36:30

for legal stuff. And so yeah, all

36:32

those small donors, it's 10% of

36:34

what they've been giving for the last year,

36:37

which is not an insignificant amount of money.

36:39

And it's helped pay for some of those.

36:41

Look, the intertwining of all these things is

36:43

real, right? Like to differentiate what is the

36:45

Trump legal issues with what is the Trump

36:48

political issues is kind of, it's

36:50

a fool's errand, right? One of his

36:52

lawyers was recently

36:54

co-hosting a fundraiser for

36:58

his super PAC, right? So

37:00

like, they're not totally

37:02

separate. They have been separate

37:04

in terms of like actual cashflow, right, the

37:07

campaign has not spent money on his personal

37:09

lawyers, but the idea that they're like separate

37:11

things, no, I think it's very

37:13

much the Donald Trump 2024 campaign is

37:16

happening in and around courtrooms. I

37:20

know this is a really unprecedented

37:22

situation that we're in, but like,

37:25

are these rules being made up as we

37:27

go along or like? That's an existential question.

37:29

Yeah, it is kind of, I'm like,

37:32

because we've never been here, like is

37:34

he just test casing new theories about how you

37:37

use money in politics? Like, is it just

37:40

completely uncharted? It's a

37:42

little bit uncharted. It's also that it's

37:44

not just him, right? We're in basically

37:46

20 years of candidates testing new theories

37:49

of how they wanna spend and

37:51

raise money in politics and very little

37:54

policing by the group that's supposed to

37:56

oversee them. So like, there are

37:58

rules that Trump is taking advantage. of that

38:00

others have plowed before him. There are rules that

38:02

he's expanding. But I would say that

38:04

this is not just a Trump issue. This is just

38:07

the broader regime of campaign

38:09

finance that how we run this stuff

38:12

is no longer a thing

38:14

that makes intuitive sense to a

38:16

regular American. You know, I wanted to ask

38:18

specifically about the true social Trump media as

38:21

he's turned into a source of revenue. I've

38:23

only been like kind of halfway following this

38:26

storyline. I guess like help

38:28

me understand how something can become such a campaign

38:30

boom. Or was it or has it

38:32

been? Yeah, so this is

38:34

his private social media company and

38:37

it just went public. And on

38:39

paper, Trump has become a multi-billionaire

38:41

in a way that he really hasn't

38:43

been. And so it's a dramatic increase

38:46

in his wealth on

38:48

paper. This is a stock that

38:50

when they have to also file all these official

38:52

reports now that you're publicly traded stock, you have

38:54

to reveal your books. And the

38:56

books don't look like a multi-billion dollar company.

38:59

There's nothing in the books that's like $4.1 million of

39:02

revenue last year that screams multi-billion dollar company,

39:05

but what it does have is supporters who

39:07

are buying this stock online and driving up

39:09

price. And we've seen this not just for

39:11

Trump. We saw it in like all these

39:14

meme stocks around. GameStop, AMC, right? And it

39:16

bears a lot of similar, the actual finances

39:18

don't merit the valuations that it

39:20

has on the market, but it is valued at

39:22

what it's valued at. Now Trump is the biggest

39:25

shareholder. And so again, multi-billion dollar windfall, but he

39:27

can't sell those shares yet. There's a bunch of

39:29

rules about how long he has to wait. And

39:32

so all of this is really like

39:34

theoretical money for him and certainly

39:36

very theoretical in terms of the campaign.

39:38

I would actually pretty much wall that

39:41

off because for now that isn't money

39:43

he has access to and it's not expected

39:45

to immediately impact the campaign. So that doesn't

39:47

impact those initial three buckets, but it gives

39:50

him money on paper that he can possibly

39:52

leverage to solve one of his many other

39:54

problems. Hope on the horizon. Gotcha, gotcha. Oh,

39:56

what about these $60 Bibles? Are

39:59

we should, should we just expect? a

40:01

level of Trump gimmick-y-ness to

40:03

raise money. I guess

40:05

I look at those things, and he's always

40:08

felt someone willing to grift, to sell, to

40:10

do whatever he needs to. Is

40:12

your sense that we're entering a moment of

40:14

desperation for them? And how's

40:17

that read the Bible? I wouldn't read it as

40:19

something different in kind. You

40:22

go back to 2016 when he was winning those

40:24

competitive primaries, and he had Trump branded stuff

40:26

all around him. He was using that as

40:29

a sales pitch opportunity. He went

40:31

to sneaker con to roll out his own

40:33

set of sneakers. He

40:35

has rolled out his own picture book. Yeah,

40:37

a Bible, I guess, is the next step

40:39

in the journey. The Bible is just, I

40:42

mean, it's hard to say, it's just the

40:44

next step, it's certainly a step, right? But

40:46

we've been on this pathway for a long

40:48

time. Trump's selling his name to sell things

40:50

and make a profit. And again, this

40:52

is money for him personally. This is not a Bible that

40:54

you buy it from his campaign. This

40:57

is just a personal private business deal that

40:59

he's entered into. Oh, this isn't even helping

41:01

these buckets. This is just helping his own

41:03

individual bank out, which he is not famously

41:05

tapping to pay the lawyers. Or

41:08

for his campaign, right? He has not put

41:10

money into his own political campaign. Basically,

41:13

since he became the nominee in 2016, he relied

41:15

on donors and the Republican Party ever since. That

41:17

was such a huge part of his brand when

41:19

he was running in 2016. It

41:22

was like, I am not owned by these people. I

41:24

mean, you talk to voters all the time, it is

41:26

still part of his brand. Republican voters bring this up

41:29

all the time. That's exactly what I was gonna say.

41:32

It's amazing how that brand

41:34

has lasted. But it hasn't

41:36

in our reporting seeped into anyone. And I was gonna

41:38

ask you, have you heard someone think,

41:40

oh, Donald Trump with less money is a

41:43

less appealing Donald Trump? I

41:45

mean, I think some of this is just sort

41:47

of the media silos and what is the information

41:49

that you're consuming. But I think on

41:52

a regular basis and traveling in Iowa, New

41:54

Hampshire and other parts of the country this

41:56

year, last year during the primary, bring

42:00

up his independence and say he doesn't need

42:02

to be running. He doesn't need the money

42:04

that he is not beholden the way that

42:06

Nikki Haley is beholden. He's not beholden the

42:08

way that Rhonda Santos is beholden. Meanwhile, he

42:10

is raising all the money from other people.

42:13

But it was that initial spend that it was

42:15

his own money and his vast claims of wealth

42:17

and his idea that he didn't

42:19

need their money. Even if he's taking it,

42:21

that has taken hold in such a real

42:23

way. It's hard to overstate how

42:26

important that's been in his appeal. I

42:28

think not just to Republican primary voters, but across

42:30

the board. Yeah, it is a core part of

42:32

the brand, even if it's gotten further from the

42:34

truth. I'm gonna ask, what

42:37

do you think are the long-term impacts of

42:39

this current cash crunch with Trump? When

42:41

it comes to the campaign, what will he not be

42:43

spending money on, what will he not see from the

42:45

campaign that otherwise, if he was flush, we would have

42:47

seen? We're

42:50

talking a lot about money, but I

42:52

think that money is often vastly overrated.

42:55

That's my next question. It's importance in

42:57

presidential elections in particular. I've covered House

42:59

races and Senate races, and in an

43:01

average House candidate running, they're not known

43:04

in their community. Even the best House

43:06

candidates aren't particularly well known. So

43:08

if somebody comes and sends a million dollars

43:11

on television ads, that dominates the average voters'

43:13

knowledge of those candidates. With Donald

43:15

Trump and Joe Biden, a bunch

43:18

of advertising isn't introducing you to

43:20

these two candidates. You know who

43:22

these candidates are. You even know

43:24

some of their positions on issues.

43:27

And so money is incredibly

43:29

important in American politics. It

43:31

is least important in

43:34

the biggest races. I guess with that in

43:36

mind, then, what does it do? It

43:38

does a few things. I mean, the number one thing I think

43:40

that it does is it allows

43:42

the candidate or the campaign

43:45

with more money to expand the map of

43:47

what they're looking at at presidential politics. If

43:50

you are the Joe Biden campaign and you

43:52

know that Michigan,

43:55

Wisconsin, and Pennsylvania are your absolute must-win

43:57

states, right? You want to hold those

43:59

three. You hold those three states and

44:01

you win the one little electoral college

44:03

vote in Nebraska, you can get reelected,

44:05

right? But that's not where they're spending

44:07

exclusively. They're also spending in Nevada, in

44:10

Georgia, in Arizona. They just released a memo about

44:12

Florida. They released a memo about Florida, about let's

44:14

see if they spend real money in Florida. But

44:17

like North Carolina, which they lost last time,

44:19

right? Even as he won by a relatively

44:21

large electoral college, they are spending in a

44:23

state that he lost by the most narrow

44:25

margin because they have enough right now to

44:28

spread the map. So if you're the Democrats, elections

44:31

aren't usually won in the winter spring

44:33

before the election, but you can get

44:35

an edge, right? If you're Joe Biden,

44:37

you enter this campaign behind in most

44:39

public polling. The money is allowing you

44:41

to either close that gap or build

44:43

things like campaign offices that can pay

44:45

off over time. But it's

44:48

really the like, how thin can you stretch

44:50

the defenses of your opponent? Can

44:52

you make them need to spend money in North

44:54

Carolina if you're Trump and

44:56

take away from the state that he may otherwise have to

44:58

win? Right. And so the speaking

45:01

of the importance of this period of the race, the

45:03

place we have seen the Biden campaign be the weakest

45:05

is probably with enthusiasm among kind of court constituents. They

45:07

talk a lot about kind of bringing people home right

45:09

now and wanting to do that even more so than

45:12

they think about persuasion or all that type of things

45:14

come later in the year. When

45:16

we think about the impact of money, like how

45:18

much love can money buy? Like when

45:20

you think about the impact of that

45:22

specifically to people who are probably Democrats,

45:24

but maybe soft on Biden. Is

45:27

that ads that they're supposed to convince them?

45:29

Is that texts? Is that door knocking?

45:31

Is it I guess it's all of the above? Yeah.

45:33

I mean, I think that the most recent

45:35

New York Times poll we did had Trump

45:38

winning 97% of the

45:41

people who voted for him in 2020 and had Joe Biden winning

45:43

83% of the people who voted for

45:47

him in 2020. That gap tells you

45:49

why Joe Biden was losing in that poll.

45:52

And so what they're going to try to

45:54

do is use their money advantage to tell

45:56

that chunk of Democratic voters this election is

45:58

coming. on the place, give

46:01

them a reason to care or to

46:03

highlight their awareness. I live this

46:05

every day. You live this every day. This

46:07

is not a central part of most

46:10

people's lives. And if you're

46:12

an average voter, the whole promise of

46:14

Joe Biden was partly, I didn't need

46:16

to care about politics every day. And

46:18

so people have intentionally tuned out. And

46:21

so they're trying to re-engage voters who might be

46:23

likely to vote for Joe Biden, but not

46:25

likely to be tuned into why they should

46:27

care yet. And sometimes that's

46:30

advertising, sometimes that's spending in other ways that are trying

46:32

to reach them. But that is their chief

46:34

goal, and money is one of the ways they're trying

46:36

to resolve it. Thanks,

46:39

Shane. I really appreciate it. This was really

46:41

helpful. All right. Thank you.

46:49

As of Wednesday morning, Justin, Shane

46:52

and Robert predicted Republican fundraising

46:54

numbers were going up. The

46:56

Republican National Committee and the Trump campaign

46:59

announced that they'd raised over $65

47:01

million in March, ending

47:03

the month with $93 million in cash

47:06

on hand. The

47:08

Biden campaign has yet to release its

47:10

March total. So a

47:12

campaign spokesperson said we can expect the

47:14

numbers in the coming days. The

47:23

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48:00

April 4th, 2024. And

48:03

now, the rundown. All right, this

48:05

morning, counting votes in four states

48:07

that had presidential primaries. Voters in

48:10

Wisconsin, New York, Rhode Island, and

48:12

Connecticut went to the polls on Tuesday.

48:15

And although Biden and Trump won all those

48:17

states easily, there were warning

48:19

signs for both campaigns. On

48:21

the Republican side... This primary is long

48:23

over, but look at the

48:26

support for Nikki Haley. Nikki Haley won

48:28

at least 10% of the vote in

48:30

all four states, despite having

48:32

dropped out of the race last month. And

48:35

on the Democratic side... More than 45,000 people

48:39

in Wisconsin voted un-instructed. That's

48:41

the terminology. People continue to

48:43

voice their disagreement with Biden's handling of

48:45

the war in Gaza by

48:47

staging a protest vote at the ballot box. Also

48:50

this week... U.S.

48:54

Donald Trump held rallies in Michigan and

48:56

Wisconsin, and in his

48:58

speeches... Under crooked Joe Biden, every

49:00

state is now a border state. Every

49:02

town is now a border town. His

49:05

rhetoric about immigration escalated. The 22-year-old nursing

49:07

student in Georgia, who was barbarically

49:10

murdered by an illegal alien

49:12

animal, the Democrats

49:14

said, please don't call them animals. They're humans.

49:16

I said, no, they're not humans. They're not

49:18

humans. They're animals. Used

49:20

dehumanizing language about migrants. But it's

49:23

a border bloodbath, and it's destroying

49:25

our country. It's a very bad

49:27

thing happening. And called what's

49:29

happening at the border a bloodbath. There

49:32

are now 102 days till the

49:34

Republican National Convention, 137

49:37

days till the Democratic National Convention, and

49:40

215 days till the general election.

49:44

See you next week. The

49:49

run-up is reported by me, Estet Herndon.

49:51

And produced by Elisa Gutierrez, Kate

49:53

Leno-Keeffe, and Anna Foley. It's

49:56

edited by Rachel Dry and Lisa Tobin. With

49:59

original music. by Dan Powell,

50:01

Marion Lozano, Pat McCusker, Cyann

50:03

Wong, Sophia Landman, and Alicia

50:06

Bechit. It was

50:08

mixed by Sophia Landman and fact-checked by Kaitlin

50:10

Love. Special thanks

50:12

to Paula Schumann, Dan Dolnitz,

50:15

Larissa Anderson, David Haufinger, Matti

50:17

Messiello, Mahima Chablani, and Jeffrey

50:19

Miranda. Do

50:21

you have a question about the 2024 election? Email

50:24

us at therunupatnytimes.com. Or

50:28

better yet, record your question using the Voice

50:30

Memo app on your phone. And

50:32

then send us the file. The

50:34

email again is therunupatnytimes.com. And

50:38

finally, if you like the show and

50:40

want to get updates on latest episodes, follow

50:42

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50:45

Thanks for listening, y'all. The

50:53

less your business spends, the more

50:55

margin you keep. But today, everything

50:58

costs more. So smart businesses are

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is the number one cloud financial

51:04

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51:08

you reduce IT costs, maintenance costs,

51:10

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51:12

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51:14

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51:17

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51:22

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51:26

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