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0:37

Get ready to hear the truth about America

0:39

on a show that's not immune to the

0:41

facts. Back in February,

0:43

Donald Trump called into this conservative

0:46

radio program called the Dan

0:48

Bongino Show. President Donald

0:50

J. Trump. President Trump, welcome back to the show.

0:52

It's always good to have you, my friend. How

0:54

are you? Well, thank you,

0:56

Dan, very much. And for lack

0:58

of a better term, he threw down the

1:00

gauntlet. I don't think he's going to run, but

1:03

I'd like to go for immediately debates. I'd like

1:05

to debate him now because we should debate. Challenging

1:08

President Joe Biden to debate him, even

1:10

though Trump had skipped the GOP primary

1:12

debates. Oh, wow.

1:15

Look at that. We're breaking news,

1:17

Mr. President. Donald J. Trump

1:19

calls for debates against Joe Biden. That's great.

1:21

We can break the news here. We can

1:23

talk about these problems, Dan, and get him

1:25

to change his ways. But I am officially

1:27

doing that. I owe him for that. Eventually,

1:31

Biden accepted. And

1:34

he even upped the ante with a

1:36

campaign pushing the schedule of the matchup

1:38

earlier than most people expected. As

1:41

in tonight at a CNN

1:43

studio in Atlanta. And

1:45

while we can't know exactly what will happen on

1:47

stage, we've seen the show before.

1:50

Bitter insults, a constant

1:53

blame game, and more than

1:55

anything, a political spectacle that's

1:57

often judged on the optics more than the

1:59

facts. the substance. But

2:02

considering both candidates, offering radically

2:04

different visions for the country, it's

2:07

hard to imagine an election where

2:10

the substance matters more. So

2:13

today, there's no buzzer, no

2:16

mic muting, and instead,

2:19

just the policy. I

2:21

call four of my colleagues to talk

2:23

about what the candidates are actually promising for

2:26

a second term on some of

2:28

the issues Americans care the most about. From

2:32

the New York Times, I'm Estebb Herndon.

2:34

This is The Run-Up. Four

2:44

issues that usually rank high on the list

2:47

of voter concerns are the economy,

2:49

immigration, abortion rights, and

2:52

foreign policy. And that's where

2:54

I wanted to focus. Bidenomics is about

2:57

building an economy from the

2:59

middle out the bottom up, not the top

3:01

down. The minute Crooked Show

3:03

Biden shuffles out the door, I will

3:05

rapidly rebuild the greatest economy in the

3:07

history of the world. Look, we had

3:10

the greatest economy in history. Starting

3:13

with the economy. I'm

3:18

Jim Tankersley. I cover economic policy at the

3:20

White House for the Times in Washington. So

3:22

I call my colleague Jim Tankersley. Okay, I

3:24

wanted to get a sense of how Trump

3:27

and Biden differ on the economy in a

3:29

second. But I think first, it

3:31

would be helpful to get a sense of the

3:33

big picture. Where has the Biden administration been on

3:35

economic policy up until this point? Well,

3:38

I mean, I did it first off. I

3:40

think that the administration has a very coherent

3:42

economic strategy. They basically have had

3:44

to do two things. The first thing was they

3:46

had a strategy to try to finish the job

3:48

of recovering from the pandemic recession with

3:50

a big stimulus bill, which

3:53

they passed in 2021, and then they've

3:55

tried to do a whole bunch of

3:57

bills to kind of increase basically the

3:59

performance of the domestic economy. And they

4:01

are certainly frustrated that when we talk

4:04

about economic policy, we don't lead with

4:06

those attempts or with the fact that

4:08

economic growth has been faster under Biden

4:11

in his first three years as president than anyone

4:13

since Jimmy Carter. That does feel

4:15

like an important baseline. It is, it

4:17

is. But it's also true that the thing that

4:19

they get dinged most on is also a thing

4:21

that hasn't happened for decades for a president, which

4:23

is that Biden has presided over a period of

4:25

very high inflation and really

4:27

rapidly rising costs for American families. That

4:30

inflation rate peaked a couple of years

4:32

ago. It's been coming back down. But

4:34

it's still above historical norms. And

4:37

when the president is swimming upstream

4:40

on economic policy, that's the big

4:42

problem he is fighting against. People

4:44

have not liked the inflation

4:46

they've gotten along with his other policies.

4:48

And it's led them to overlook the

4:50

other effects of those policies on the

4:52

job market, where unemployment is very low,

4:55

on GDP growth, even

4:57

on people's wages, which are growing. But

4:59

people are just annoyed at how fast

5:01

prices are growing at the same time.

5:03

Yeah, that is the problem. And I

5:05

think that's a helpful articulation of it.

5:07

Can you give me a sense of

5:09

the policy differences that we might understand

5:11

between Biden and Trump on economic policy?

5:13

And we wanted to do that based

5:15

on three key areas, inflation, cost of

5:17

living, taxes, and jobs. What were the

5:19

major moves that Biden has done in

5:21

this term to try to address it?

5:23

And has he said anything about a

5:25

possibility of a second term and what

5:27

he would do differently? Yeah,

5:29

if you look at what Biden's done,

5:31

first off, just to really stipulate this,

5:34

inflation is the job of the Federal

5:36

Reserve far and away. But presidents can

5:38

influence, particularly at times like this, on

5:40

the margins inflation. So Biden has mentioned

5:42

a couple of things that he has

5:44

really been focused on now. And they're

5:47

smaller things in the broad scope of prices

5:49

across the economy. But they're little things that

5:52

he's trying to do to bring down prices.

5:54

He is focused really hard on passing and

5:56

signing legislation to allow the government to negotiate

5:58

prescription drug prices. bring down drug

6:00

prices. He has tried to both just

6:03

rhetorically go after and then also use

6:05

some levers of government to go after

6:07

companies for what he calls corporate greed,

6:10

excess profit margins. And he's targeted what

6:12

the White House loves to call junk

6:14

fees, which are like little cost increases

6:17

like on concert tickets, airline

6:19

tickets. And in the second term, I think there's

6:21

a couple of big things that he has said

6:23

that he would like to do that could affect

6:25

inflation. One of them is he wants

6:27

to raise taxes on people making more than $400,000 a year. But

6:30

he wants to do so in a way that would reduce

6:32

the budget deficit. And on

6:35

balance, that could have some small but

6:37

marginal effect on bringing down inflation. And

6:40

then the second thing he wants to

6:42

do is just kind of do more

6:44

with his antitrust corporate agenda in

6:46

a way that the White House argues will

6:48

help bring prices down. Neither of

6:50

those are large, but those are sort of the

6:52

cornerstones of his policies for bringing down

6:54

price growth, I would say, and are most

6:56

likely to affect inflation. Can

6:59

we get to what Trump has said, or particularly

7:01

on the issue of inflation? We know he is

7:03

blamed Biden for the current state of prices. But

7:05

what has he done while in office? And do

7:07

we have any clues of what Donald Trump would

7:09

do in regards to inflation if elected in the

7:11

second term? Yeah, I mean, I think

7:13

it's really important to note that Trump came to office

7:15

at a very different economic moment than Biden, right? Biden

7:18

had been low for basically

7:21

this entire century. And

7:23

that's important because one of the reasons why people are so

7:25

mad about it now is that they just aren't used to

7:27

it. You know, in the 70s and 80s, people got used

7:29

to higher inflation. They're not used to it now. So

7:32

Trump comes in, takes over an economy

7:34

with low amount of inflation, and then

7:36

he's able to do some economically stimulative

7:38

policies, a big tax cut. He calls

7:41

on the Federal Reserve to get stimulative

7:43

with their policies, too, which they do.

7:45

And Fed officials have been adamant that

7:47

they didn't respond to Trump. They just

7:49

did it because they thought they needed

7:51

to. But he gets both

7:53

stimulative monetary policy, stimulative fiscal policy, and

7:55

that helps to grow the economy. But

7:58

he's not really that worried about inflation because because people

8:00

are not expecting high inflation and it

8:02

stays pretty low until the

8:05

pandemic. So Trump's biggest argument, I

8:07

think, for like, I can bring back low inflation

8:10

is I did it before. But

8:12

it's a very different economic moment. And I

8:14

think we should just like start with that

8:16

knowledge that if you just came in and

8:18

reran Trump's playbook from four years ago, you'd

8:20

have really different effects. And that

8:22

could very well happen. He's talked about

8:24

a thing that Republicans talk about a lot,

8:26

which is like cutting unspecified government spending. In

8:29

theory, if you cut a lot of

8:31

government spending and reduce the deficit by a lot,

8:33

you could bring down inflation in the same way

8:35

that you could bring down inflation with tax increases

8:38

like Biden wants to do. But

8:40

I think the other big policy that Trump has talked

8:42

about that would affect prices, if

8:44

not the actual inflation rate is

8:46

tariffs. He wants to put new

8:48

taxes on imports from all around the world and

8:51

particularly on imports from China. And

8:53

that's just going to raise the cost of

8:55

those products for people. So in

8:57

Trump, you have this sort of rhetoric of I'm

8:59

going to cut government spending, I'm going to roll

9:01

back all the terrible Biden things that's going to

9:03

solve inflation and then I can do my own

9:05

thing. But I don't that's not really

9:07

adding up to what I think most economists would

9:09

call a coherent policy to bring down inflation. And

9:11

there's a lot of what Trump is talking about

9:14

that economists say really risks exacerbating more

9:16

inflation. Yeah, let's get to

9:18

the issue of taxes. What has Joe Biden done and

9:20

what does he promise he would do in the second

9:22

term, specifically when it comes to taxes? So

9:25

sort of like very counterintuitively, what Biden

9:27

has done thus far, if you add

9:29

all of his tax policies up, is

9:32

slightly cut taxes over the entirety of

9:34

his administration. But he wants to

9:36

raise a lot of taxes. That's

9:38

mostly reflective of the fact that he hasn't been able

9:41

to get Congress to go along

9:43

with the trillions of dollars in

9:45

corporate and high-earner tax increases that Biden

9:47

wants. He's campaigned for even back in

9:50

2020. Absolutely. I

9:52

mean, you know, the big tax

9:54

debate in this campaign is going to center

9:56

around the expiration of some tax cuts that

9:58

Trump signed into law. law in 2017. And

10:01

what Biden wants to do is keep

10:03

and extend the tax cuts for people

10:06

making less than $400,000 and

10:09

then allow to expire tax

10:11

cuts for people earning more than that and

10:13

some business tax cuts that are also set

10:15

to expire. And then on top of that,

10:18

raise more taxes on the rich and

10:20

on corporations. And that's sort of his

10:22

tax reform plan. Okay. Whereas Trump just

10:24

wants to make permanent all the tax cuts that he

10:26

signed in the first place. And he wants to go

10:28

farther. He wants to give more tax

10:30

cuts to corporations. He wants to give more

10:33

tax cuts to people. He even has floated

10:35

this idea of, gee, wouldn't it be nice

10:37

if we could just get rid of the

10:39

income tax entirely in this country and replace

10:41

it with tariffs, which has

10:44

a lot of problems as a way

10:47

to raise revenue, but is theoretically

10:49

possible and would be a

10:51

massive restructuring of our tax code. So there's

10:54

a really stark difference between these guys on

10:56

taxes. Yeah, that makes sense. You know, the

10:58

last bucket we had was jobs. As you

11:00

mentioned, this has been a period of job

11:03

growth led by Biden's administration. What should be

11:05

the biggest difference that we think about between

11:07

Biden and Trump when it comes to the

11:09

prospect of unemployment or employment, considering the unemployment

11:11

rate has been fairly low? I

11:14

think it's, you know, both these guys are going to talk

11:16

a big game about jobs. They're both going to talk about

11:18

their jobs record. Biden has the

11:20

best jobs record of any modern president in

11:22

large part because the recovery from covid employment

11:24

was so fast. But even if you exclude

11:26

that, it's been a very strong record. But

11:28

Trump had a strong jobs record, too. And

11:30

I think you have a real contrast in

11:33

how they kind of arrive at their belief

11:35

that they've been able to stimulate job growth

11:37

and how they say they would do it

11:39

going forward. You know, Trump is a he

11:42

talks in some very classic Republican language of

11:44

low taxes and low regulations are going

11:46

to drive job growth. But for Trump,

11:48

tariffs are also a driver of job growth.

11:50

He wants stuff made in the

11:52

United States with American jobs. And he thinks the way

11:54

to do it is basically to make everything you buy

11:57

from around the world more expensive so that we have

11:59

to make it here. Biden's doing some

12:01

of that, but he's doing more sort of like,

12:03

I want more stuff made here and I'm going

12:05

to subsidize it. Biden

12:07

has all these tax breaks in

12:09

the Inflation Reduction Act, all the

12:11

climate tax breaks for solar panel

12:13

production and wind turbines and hydrogen

12:16

and all these electric vehicles. And

12:18

he really wants to seed those

12:20

new industries here and to be

12:22

subsidizing those jobs. Trump would

12:24

repeal a bunch of those incentives, he

12:26

says. And so theoretically, that

12:28

would have some real potential effects on job growth.

12:30

But Trump has different policies, he says, would be

12:32

stimulative job growth. Again, because

12:35

it's such a different environment now than when either

12:37

of them took office, it's hard to say, oh,

12:39

yeah, that policy is definitely the right one to

12:41

go with. The bigger question, I think, if you're

12:43

a voter trying to judge the jobs thing is,

12:46

do I believe Joe Biden's

12:48

arguments that the jobs of the

12:50

future are in these particular industries,

12:53

advanced manufacturing, clean tech, electric vehicles.

12:55

If I do, Biden has a

12:57

real strategy for that. And Trump

13:00

very explicitly says we shouldn't be

13:02

targeting those. But if you believe,

13:04

hey, the jobs of the future just lie in

13:07

trying to bring American employment back

13:09

from overseas with tariffs and other end

13:12

tax cuts, then Trump is your

13:14

guy. Got it. I

13:16

guess I will ask as our last question, like, what

13:18

would be the one question on the economy you

13:20

would ask the two of them on Thursday? I

13:23

mean, I think you have to ask about

13:25

prices because it's the thing that people care

13:27

the most about. But I think you have

13:30

to ask about it in a way that

13:32

helps people understand what the choice is going

13:34

forward and not just blame game going back.

13:36

So I actually might start with a version

13:38

of your first question, one of your first

13:40

questions to me, which is what specifically will

13:42

you do in your

13:44

next term if you win in

13:47

November to bring down

13:49

inflation? And how will

13:51

that work? And then follow

13:53

up pretty aggressively. If Trump's just like, well, I

13:55

had low inflation before, I'll do

13:58

it again. Like, that's not an answer. Tell

14:00

me how and if Biden's just like well, I'm gonna

14:02

make sure the government gets insulin costs down more say

14:04

like okay great Well, what about the rest of the

14:06

costs? Yeah, and I think it's time for

14:08

a big national debate on what would be the right

14:10

policies over the next four

14:12

years to try to bring inflation down low

14:15

again because There are a lot

14:17

of ways that you could exacerbate it again If

14:19

you do a big tax cut or a big

14:21

spending increase without paying for it. There's a real

14:23

risk that it shoots up again Yeah, yeah

14:27

Jim thanks so much. I appreciate you taking some

14:29

time out and let's look to this debate with

14:31

an eye for substance fingers crossed Fingers

14:33

crossed man. Thanks so much for having me. It was really fun The

14:44

first and most urgent action when

14:46

we win will be the ceiling

14:48

of the border stopping the

14:51

invasion drill baby

14:53

drill Send Joe

14:55

Biden's illegal aliens back home

15:01

Two weeks ago I did

15:04

what republics in Congress refused to do I

15:06

took actions to secure our border That

15:08

included restricting unlawful crossings at our southern

15:11

border making decisions on asylum

15:13

more quickly and so much more

15:16

The next issue I wanted to turn to

15:18

was immigration My

15:25

name is Zolan Kano Youngs. I'm

15:27

a White House correspondent and I've

15:29

been covering immigration policy Over

15:31

the Biden and Trump administrations So you're gonna

15:33

help us understand the differences between Biden and

15:36

Trump specifically on an issue That

15:38

is at the top of mind for many

15:40

voters, which is immigration Can you take me

15:43

through just a couple of the pressure points

15:45

that are at this moment? top

15:47

of mind for the White House

15:50

Sure, sure. So I think when you

15:52

talk about how the White House views

15:55

the border There's one metric that has

15:57

stood out throughout the body administrations and

15:59

that's that's border crossings, right?

16:02

Now, border crossings have more than

16:04

doubled under Biden compared

16:07

to the Trump administration. And,

16:09

you know, there's a couple different factors for that,

16:11

but it's important to remember that at the end

16:13

of Trump, you know, the pandemic

16:16

essentially brought everything to a halt.

16:18

It also, you know, completely

16:20

deteriorated the economies in some of these

16:22

nations in Central America where many of

16:24

these people are coming from, plus you

16:26

had natural disasters, and then

16:29

as well a changing administration too. Interesting.

16:31

Let's try to go through the differences

16:33

between both candidates when it comes to

16:35

both border policy and broader

16:37

immigration policy. And let's start with President

16:39

Biden. What has he done in relationship

16:41

to the border and what is he

16:43

promising to do in a possible second

16:45

term? Right on. Okay, so

16:48

I think it's important to go back a

16:50

little bit to the presidential campaign of 2020.

16:53

Biden's largely kind of

16:55

the plans that he outlined for the border

16:58

was mainly attacking Trump for his policies.

17:00

And then he comes into office and

17:02

in those early months, there

17:05

were already signs of somewhat backtracking,

17:07

right? I mean, I remember during

17:09

the transition, he warned immigration advocates,

17:11

hey, it's gonna take me time

17:13

to lift these Trump-era restrictions, right?

17:16

And then we had, honestly, I would say

17:18

for much of this first term, at least

17:20

the first half, a reliance

17:23

on some Trump-era restrictions when it came to

17:25

the border. And

17:27

part of that was because the courts sort

17:29

of slowed down how much the Biden administration

17:31

could reform that system. But to simplify this, they

17:33

were relying on Trump-era restrictions, including a

17:36

COVID-era rule that essentially sealed the

17:38

border to migrants. So

17:40

the Biden administration went from demeaning kind of

17:42

Trump's policies on the border to embracing some

17:45

of them. That's right, embracing some of them.

17:47

I think what makes Biden a little bit

17:49

complicated at the border is he

17:51

may be incredibly sort of strict when

17:54

it comes to sort of traditionally people

17:56

crossing the border, that

18:01

allows migrants to apply for an

18:03

appointment with an immigration officer on

18:05

a smartphone app. He has

18:07

also relied on like this temporary emergency

18:10

program sort of known as parole to

18:12

let thousands of people into the country.

18:14

So on one hand you've got like

18:16

the restrictive sort of I'm turning people

18:19

away, but on the other hand you've

18:21

got this innovative approach to try and

18:23

expand some legal pathways, but

18:26

politics kind of always wins in

18:28

the end. And recently we did

18:30

see him issue an executive order

18:33

after getting derailed or blocked by the

18:35

Senate and just facing

18:37

political pressure for years. He

18:39

did issue an executive order

18:41

recently that essentially suspended asylum

18:44

to most migrants at the

18:46

Southwest border, largely mirroring the

18:48

Trump administration's attempt as well.

18:51

Is there anything the Biden administration has said about

18:53

what they would do differently if they elected to

18:55

a second term when it comes to the border?

18:58

You know, it's a little bit unclear as of

19:00

now kind of what the plans

19:02

would be for a second term. I'm

19:04

gonna be honest with you right now

19:06

the reporting really shows that they are

19:08

just so focused on trying to neutralize

19:11

sort of Trump's attacks that Biden is

19:13

an open border president which fueled into

19:16

some of these recent actions. But the

19:18

one glimpse that we have heard from

19:20

Biden even when he signed that recent

19:22

executive order limiting asylum, he acknowledged that

19:24

there would be critics in his own

19:26

party that want to see more actions

19:28

that support migrants and immigrants. And he

19:31

did say, give me time, be patient

19:33

with me. Yes, and to that point,

19:35

we saw a version of this in

19:37

the past week with a big announcement

19:39

for the White House announcing a change

19:41

in policy that would create a pathway

19:43

to citizenship for undocumented immigrants who are

19:46

the spouses of citizens and who've already

19:48

been in the country for more than

19:50

10 years. Sure, so

19:52

this almost crystallizes Biden's approach to immigration

19:54

in a way. If you

19:56

are a migrant who is fleeing

20:00

persecution or poverty and is trying to cross

20:02

the border, Biden's essentially telling

20:04

you that you have to wait. And

20:07

if you are an undocumented family that

20:09

has been in the United States for

20:11

years working, sending your kid

20:13

to school, he's essentially saying

20:15

that you'll be protected for now.

20:18

And so it's that difference

20:20

between those coming outside the border and

20:22

those who have been inside the country

20:24

for years now. Okay. Well, let's go

20:26

through Trump. In his first term, what

20:29

were the specific actions that he took

20:31

to the border that stick out the

20:33

most? And what is he promising when

20:35

it comes to the border in a

20:37

possible second term? Yep. Yep. Okay. So

20:39

Trump definitely prioritized enforcement. And I would

20:41

say the main difference with Biden is

20:43

just was incredibly candid about the use

20:45

of deterrence and even cruelty at the

20:47

border as a means for

20:50

discouraging migrants to cross. I mean,

20:52

everyone knows about zero tolerance and

20:54

family separation, but there was a

20:56

lot of other stuff done in

20:59

the final two years of Trump,

21:01

even after this family separation policy

21:03

was lifted. Remain in Mexico might

21:05

be one of the more consequential

21:07

policies, essentially forcing migrants to wait

21:10

in Mexico until they get an

21:12

appointment in a backlogged immigration court

21:14

system. When COVID hit, they

21:16

basically seized on it to institute

21:19

something called Title 42, which essentially

21:21

turned migrants away citing a public

21:23

health emergency. But this also resulted

21:25

in them initially dropping off kids

21:27

who crossed the border alone into

21:30

Mexico, even if they were from a

21:32

Central American country. Right. That's

21:35

a major difference from even the way

21:37

the Biden administration used that rule. So

21:39

that was term one, essentially. So what

21:41

does he promise about what he would

21:44

do differently in the second term? Taking

21:46

it to the next level, completely. I

21:48

mean, if you thought it was extreme

21:51

in term one, I mean, me

21:53

and my colleagues have basically heard is

21:55

is it would it would impose an

21:57

even more severe level of sort of

22:00

extreme policies. I mean, one

22:02

thing that he talked about doing

22:04

in term one was citing the

22:06

Insurrection Act to basically have the

22:09

military police the border. That's

22:11

something that they are planning already

22:14

and his aides have

22:16

been very kind of candid about. He has,

22:19

you know, talked about reinstituting a lot

22:21

of the policies from

22:23

term one, including that COVID era rule,

22:26

but almost in a more permanent way

22:28

by not citing COVID, but by citing

22:30

other diseases such as tuberculosis or what

22:33

have you, even though there's still a

22:35

lack of data or

22:37

evidence that, you know, most of the migrants

22:39

crossing are sick. So we're talking about a

22:42

policy of escalation from Trump that will continue

22:44

what we saw in the first term, but

22:46

even kick it up to a different level.

22:48

What's the biggest difference between Biden and Trump

22:51

looking forward when it comes to the broader

22:53

immigration system? Yeah, so I think one thing

22:55

that sometimes gets lost about Trump is even

22:58

though a lot of the rhetoric was about

23:00

the border and illegal immigration,

23:02

he also limited and made attempts

23:04

to limit legal immigration. Yeah, this

23:06

is super important. Yeah, yeah. Like

23:08

one thing that I think that

23:10

the reporting shows is you would

23:12

see a return to extreme vetting.

23:14

People essentially go into an embassy

23:16

and going through a process to

23:18

try and get a visa to

23:20

the United States. Trump imposed a

23:23

bunch of extreme vetting from the

23:25

smallest detail to just sprawling sort

23:27

of policies, right? Maybe if you

23:29

left an answer blank on an

23:31

application, that might mean that you

23:33

need to start over now and

23:36

you need to basically provide more

23:38

paperwork and background that some people

23:40

fleeing difficult situations in

23:42

certain countries may not have. Extreme

23:44

vetting, critics would say, resulted in

23:47

an exacerbated backlog of the overall

23:49

system. Biden, when he

23:51

came into office, lifted those

23:54

extreme vetting policies. He lifted

23:56

other policies, including one that

23:58

basically said if you were

24:01

an immigrant likely to use

24:03

government assistance programs, think

24:05

like food stamps, for example, you could

24:08

have your green card blocked. And like,

24:10

make no mistake, the system's still incredibly

24:12

backlogged now. Democrats and Republicans would say

24:14

that it's, you know, still broken. But

24:16

there were some of those restrictions that

24:19

were lifted under Biden. You

24:21

asked me about also what it would look like in term

24:23

two for Trump. Once again, it may

24:25

not surprise you. Go into the

24:27

next level in terms of restrictions here. That

24:30

extreme vetting would be back. So it would

24:32

make it harder for people to apply the

24:34

quote unquote legal way or right way. And

24:37

you would also have a major

24:39

escalation of deportation strategy. Main

24:41

difference from Biden to Trump. Trump

24:43

basically directed ICE agents

24:46

to, I can casual terms

24:48

go after everybody, right? Don't

24:50

be limited if they're undocumented,

24:52

target them for deportation. Biden

24:54

instituted guidelines that basically said

24:56

focus on people with criminal

24:58

backgrounds. Being undocumented isn't a

25:00

reason enough for being deported,

25:03

essentially, or at least having the resources

25:05

of ICE go after you. Trump

25:07

is going to go back to that broad sort

25:10

of approach for ICE. But he also

25:12

in a term to we've

25:14

reported that they are planning on

25:16

creating mass detention facilities, including

25:19

getting federal officials to help with

25:21

deportations outside of ICE. Deputizing

25:23

local police to go after

25:26

undocumented immigrants. Also,

25:28

you know, churches, schools, which essentially under

25:30

the Biden administration have been sort of

25:32

safe zones. You know, let's

25:34

not go and send ICE agents into

25:37

schools or worksite raids. That

25:39

would all be on the table for Trump

25:42

administration as well. If you could sum it

25:44

up, what would you say is the

25:46

biggest difference between President Biden and the President Trump

25:48

on immigration? You know,

25:50

I think President Biden is

25:53

focusing on enforcement now, and

25:55

that's where sort of the political momentum is.

25:58

But this is still somebody that can. into

26:00

office and proposed a bill to establish a

26:02

pathway to citizenship for 11 million

26:05

undocumented immigrants. I do think this

26:07

is an administration that the

26:11

border has been a thorn in

26:13

their side, which has depleted

26:15

momentum from their, I think,

26:18

real intention to try and

26:20

repair the overall immigration system.

26:23

The border isn't a thorn in the

26:25

side for the Trump administration. It's something

26:28

that they're going to lean into. In

26:30

terms of basically hardening the overall borders

26:32

of the United States, Trump's goal

26:35

is going to be to limit the number

26:37

of people who can come to the United

26:39

States in a term two. And

26:41

I think Biden's focus

26:45

is hardening the

26:48

southwest border at this time

26:51

to hopefully build enough

26:53

momentum to start

26:55

to make incremental changes to

26:58

repair the overall system. Thank

27:03

you so much, Zolan. We appreciate your time and

27:05

we know you'll be tracking this. And we'll

27:08

check in on it again before the election. Right

27:10

on. Appreciate being here. After

27:19

the break, abortion rights and

27:21

foreign policy. Shopping

27:42

ingredients for New York Times cooking recipes

27:44

through Instacart is convenient and quick, perfect

27:47

for a home cooked steak dinner for your date

27:49

in an hour. But plot

27:51

twist. They're vegetarian.

27:54

You open New York Times cooking and

27:56

find just the thing. Halloumi with corn,

27:58

cherry tomatoes, and basil. at

38:00

the very end of May and said it

38:02

was an Israeli proposal, which it was, although

38:04

the United States helped push

38:06

it along. His problem

38:08

is that just this past weekend,

38:11

Netanyahu himself stood up and seemed

38:14

to walk away from some big

38:16

principles of what was supposed to

38:18

be the proposal that he and

38:20

his War Cabinet approved. The result

38:22

is Biden goes into this

38:25

debate, finding himself in

38:28

the perfectly middle spot where

38:30

people are angry at him

38:32

at both ends. A

38:34

very pro-Israel, let the Israelis do whatever

38:36

they want, are coming after him and

38:39

saying, you're not supporting Israel enough. And

38:41

the left is saying, you're not restraining the

38:44

Israelis from killing civilians and you have the

38:46

blood on their hands. As

38:48

you mentioned, President Biden has kind

38:50

of increasingly sharpened his criticisms of

38:52

the Netanyahu government in an attempt

38:54

to hold them, I guess, more

38:57

verbally or rhetorically accountable. How successful

38:59

has it been considering, you know,

39:01

you're talking about a walk

39:03

back just as recently as this weekend? So

39:06

most of what he was doing with

39:08

Netanyahu was behind the scenes because

39:11

it's very much in Joe

39:13

Biden's DNA that you work

39:15

out these kind of agreements,

39:17

particularly on delicate national security

39:19

issues, quietly between leaders. He

39:22

got more and more angry at Netanyahu

39:24

and Netanyahu more and more angry at

39:26

him. It's pretty clear who

39:28

Netanyahu wants to win in this

39:31

coming election. Netanyahu

39:33

wants Donald Trump to be

39:36

elected president again because it was

39:38

a very rare day that Donald

39:41

Trump stood in his way. That's

39:43

where I'm going next. Yeah. If

39:46

that's President Biden's relationship to Israel

39:48

and Gaza, what do we know

39:50

about Donald Trump? What has he

39:52

said? And more importantly, do

39:54

we know anything about how a

39:56

potential Trump administration would change their

39:59

their relationship to government or conflict

40:01

if he were to win in

40:03

November. Trump

40:05

has said very little about

40:07

Gaza. He initially hinted that

40:09

he would be completely behind Netanyahu,

40:12

but at various moments he has said,

40:14

well, maybe the Israelis have gone a

40:16

little bit far. But

40:18

he gets away with a huge

40:21

amount of vague statements.

40:23

This is the usual arm waving of the

40:26

Trump presidency. So we don't

40:28

know for sure, but what we can work

40:31

from is what happened during his term in

40:34

office from 2017 to 2021. Pretty

40:38

much he allowed Netanyahu to do what

40:40

he wanted to do, but he also

40:43

was responsible mostly through his

40:45

sudden law and a

40:47

team that was working around him for

40:50

the Abraham Accords, which began to

40:52

bring Arab states into

40:55

an actual

40:58

recognition and peaceful resolution

41:01

with the Israelis. Biden

41:04

was trying to build on that before

41:06

the October 7th attacks and still is

41:08

by trying to bring in

41:10

the biggest element of this, which would

41:12

be Saudi Arabia. So

41:14

to be clear, though, if you

41:16

are a voter right now who is

41:19

upset with the current situation in Gaza

41:21

and believes that Biden has empowered Netanyahu

41:23

on an offensive assault that has killed

41:25

too many Palestinian civilians, there is not

41:28

evidence that Donald Trump as

41:30

president would curb those

41:32

actions. In fact, quite to the contrary, he

41:35

would probably undo the few things that Biden

41:37

has done in that regard. I

41:39

was just wanting to be clear. I mean, it seems like the

41:42

Netanyahu interest is one that

41:44

tells all we need to know. I also

41:46

wanted to talk to you about the

41:48

policy differences between Biden and Trump when

41:51

it comes to Ukraine. Obviously, this conflict

41:53

has engulfed a lot of the political

41:55

conversation in the lead up to this

41:57

presidential election year, but it also shows

41:59

the