0:00

Hi. Then my name is Angela and

0:02

my secret As the dark double

0:04

life I lead with a criminal

0:06

I hear whispers that tell me

0:08

some have figured out my secret.

0:10

Shame. The. Here I am just a

0:12

girl who fall in love with her patient, ready to

0:14

tell all. Today the see

0:17

groom presents his name was trouble

0:19

hundred her. When

0:32

I first visited Ham,

0:34

he was in a

0:36

cage handcuffed and that

0:38

was because he he

0:40

was a confirmed gang

0:42

member. Thanks.

0:45

To Dip See for supporting the Seeker

0:48

Room Deep Sea Stories is your passport

0:50

to a world of adventurers and unforgettable

0:52

encounters. This year get an extended thirty

0:55

day free trial when you go to

0:57

Dip See stories.com/secret. When.

1:07

We think of forbidden love. We think

1:09

of a couple in the defies societal

1:11

norms when the could bring shame upon

1:13

oneself and one's family. But what if

1:15

that toll could also be potentially deadly

1:18

or cost decades of loneliness to obtain?

1:20

When my guest Angela fell in love,

1:22

she confronted these perils and a certain

1:24

professional ethical dilemma. She joins me know

1:26

to tell her secret. Hey.

1:33

Angela in welcome to the Seeker Rome. I.

1:36

Great to have you hear your secret

1:38

at his heart is about a nurse

1:40

and are patient. But the surprises and

1:42

the twist? my gosh, so much more

1:45

than that. right? It is. It ended

1:47

up changing my entire life. Yes, And

1:49

your the nurse in the story pro guess I was

1:51

just the right to it. Can you tell me where

1:53

you work in the story? i was

1:56

working in a forensic

1:58

psychiatric facility A

2:01

facility for people who

2:04

have been found incompetent to stand trial. So,

2:07

they were going to go before a

2:09

judge because they were charged with something. It could

2:11

have been anything, but they didn't quite

2:13

understand the system or what was happening. So, they

2:15

would come to us and

2:17

we would medicate them and educate them

2:19

and get them ready to go back

2:21

to court. About how many years ago was this?

2:24

Say nine or ten. Sounds

2:27

like a really hard job. What motivated you to do that kind

2:29

of work? I have always

2:31

liked the psychiatric field. I

2:34

really like helping those

2:36

who don't get as much

2:39

assistance as they should. Well,

2:41

it's very noble. I imagine you

2:43

saw a lot of mental illness in your patients. Yeah,

2:45

I was almost exclusive. You

2:47

can't really be found incompetent

2:49

because you have anxiety or you're

2:51

just a little depressed. You have to

2:53

be extremely mentally ill, you

2:56

have to be hallucinating or just

2:58

completely out of it. Or,

3:00

on the other hand, maybe pretending to

3:03

be so so you can get a

3:05

little bit more time out of prison.

3:07

So, people were malingering, just exaggerating their

3:09

illnesses? Yeah, it wasn't that frequent.

3:12

But people who had been

3:14

to prison before, some of them

3:17

had kind of figured out that if

3:19

you pretend like you

3:21

believe you're in the CIA and you

3:23

have superpowers and you can fly or

3:25

even people fearing feces on the wall,

3:27

just all kinds of things, they would

3:29

figure out that they could buy some

3:31

time to keep them out of prison. The

3:34

psychiatrist is going to believe that

3:37

you can't go before the judges.

3:39

I see because it's better to be a patient than

3:41

an inmate. It is. Patients have

3:44

rights. Okay. In

3:46

most states, inmates don't really

3:48

have very many rights. Did you enjoy

3:50

your job? I did. I really liked working

3:52

with the patient. I did. How

3:54

about your boss? I

3:57

enjoyed my job. The facility

3:59

was... not the best place to work.

4:01

It might have been good for the patients

4:03

but it wasn't great for us.

4:05

It was just sort of a toxic environment.

4:08

How so? I

4:10

think the people in charge at

4:12

the very top didn't really

4:14

care about the staff or the patients

4:17

and that sort of always trickles down.

4:19

So, my direct supervisor, she

4:22

just never liked me. The

4:24

first time I met her, I remember going up

4:26

to her and asking if I was going to

4:28

work day shift or night shift and

4:30

her response was, you know, I think

4:32

you're coming to day shift. I don't know if I

4:35

really want you there. Are you one of

4:38

those stupid nurses? Wow.

4:40

Yeah, and I was really new to

4:42

the field and working in general and

4:44

that really sort of took me aback. Yeah,

4:47

I would think so. Being new, you probably,

4:49

I'm going to guess maybe didn't really feel

4:51

it was appropriate to talk back. No,

4:53

just sort of smile and I

4:56

think I just said something like, I don't

4:58

think I'm one of those stupid nurses. Yeah, I

5:00

don't, I just, I was there

5:02

to learn. I was new. I mean, this

5:04

is a very specific field to work in

5:06

and I don't think she was there to teach me.

5:09

She would yell at me if I didn't know something.

5:12

Why do you think you stuck around? Was

5:14

it the work itself rewarding? Yes,

5:16

I would say the work was rewarding. Well, what

5:19

was the culture like there? Were the staff really

5:21

committed to the welfare of the patients? I

5:23

think that the lower level staff

5:26

were, especially the ones that work

5:28

directly with the patients. I don't

5:30

think that it's something that you

5:32

can do for a long time

5:34

and not care and be committed to. The

5:37

upper level staff, I don't believe they

5:39

were really there for the welfare. They

5:41

were kind of there for

5:43

the money. It's a privately

5:46

owned facility being funded by the

5:49

state. So they definitely benefited from

5:51

spending as little money as possible

5:53

on the patients. So

5:56

the bean counters, they were about the money. Yeah.

5:58

But the front line workers. They're in it for, you know,

6:01

to help the patients, help the clients. Yeah, and also

6:03

they're the ones that suffered to, you know,

6:05

patients getting angry because they were hungry all

6:07

the time. Oh, God. Just like that. Like,

6:10

you know, and then when you have mentally

6:12

ill patients, sometimes that can erupt into violence.

6:15

So, a lot of violence is about food. Tell

6:18

me about a time. Yeah,

6:21

there was a time when a patient

6:23

came in and he wanted

6:26

to show that he was the

6:28

biggest and

6:33

the baddest there. I think must have

6:35

come from sort of the prison sort of background

6:38

and he just walked in and picked

6:41

somebody on his unit and punched him in

6:43

the face and knocked him out. That

6:45

must have been a really, really difficult environment to work

6:47

in, I would think. Yeah, it was.

6:49

Your own safety could be in question. Yeah,

6:52

your awareness had to be heightened. It

6:56

was, you know, you never go into

6:58

a room alone with a patient.

7:00

You always have a security guard with you

7:03

or another nurse. You

7:05

always have clear access to

7:07

an exit, right? You never let anybody get between

7:09

you and the exit. It was just sort of

7:11

a safety was always number one. How

7:14

was the facility itself? It

7:17

was newer. Right

7:19

when I got there, there had been some

7:21

changes because there had been a lot of

7:24

injuries for staff and for

7:26

patients. It was a

7:28

newer facility but the

7:31

way it had been built didn't

7:34

have a lot of thought into safety. You know,

7:36

the doors didn't lock so

7:38

patients could just sort of wander

7:40

around, get a hold of

7:42

sharp objects, things like that. It was always an

7:44

issue. It was crowded.

7:46

You could have up

7:49

to 20 patients and one nurse which is

7:51

a lot. Sounds like a lot. It

7:53

is a lot, yeah. I've worked in other states

7:55

and they have limits and maybe that limit is six

7:57

patients so you can see like that's a lot. It

8:00

was nice enough but I would

8:02

liken it more to a jail

8:04

than anything else. So

8:06

we've got a feeling for where you

8:09

are, you know, your situation.

8:11

I think we can go to where your secret really

8:14

starts. One day you come to work and

8:16

you have a new patient on your roster, right? Yes.

8:20

Can you tell me about that day? I

8:22

came and I got

8:25

report on all of my patients just like every

8:27

other day, you know, to kind of give you

8:29

a rundown on everybody. And

8:31

then at the end, they told me

8:34

about a new patient which, you know, you need a

8:36

lot more information but the

8:38

main thing was he

8:41

had recently come out of federal

8:43

prison and he

8:46

was a active

8:48

member in a gang, like a higher

8:50

ranking person. The

8:52

takeaway was, you know, be careful, be very

8:55

manipulative, just keep on the

8:57

lookout for this particular one.

9:00

And what did he need attention

9:03

for in the psychiatric facility?

9:06

I think there was concern that he

9:08

could be aggressive, he could be

9:11

malingering, manipulative

9:15

and also the sort of racial

9:18

undertones of a

9:20

member of a white supremacist

9:22

gang working with him

9:25

as a woman of color and having people of

9:27

color as patients on the same

9:29

unit. Just to be careful, to

9:32

keep an eye out, make sure that he wasn't

9:35

mobilizing the patient for some sort

9:37

of riot. Just there's all kinds

9:39

of concerns. So to

9:41

be clear, he's a ranking member of a

9:43

white supremacist gang and you're

9:45

African-American. Yes. So

9:47

there's some potential conflict being set up here.

9:50

Right. And he adds a little

9:52

bit of tension to a relationship where it wouldn't

9:54

be. I would say. And so what treatment

9:56

is he there for? He

9:58

was actually the one... that told

10:01

the psychiatrist that he had

10:03

superpowers and attempted to fly.

10:06

Oh, okay, great. Yes. So,

10:09

he came in incompetent to stand

10:11

trial like the rest of them.

10:14

He had some sort of diagnosis related to

10:16

thinking he could fly basically and we

10:18

needed to get him back to normal.

10:20

And so, what are the steps that

10:22

you take to make somebody who says

10:25

they think they can fly competent to

10:27

stand trial? He would have

10:29

had to see a psychologist and a

10:31

psychiatrist when he came in and

10:33

they would have given him a diagnosis.

10:37

And we would have all worked together

10:39

to create a treatment plan which

10:42

would have been medication,

10:45

going to classes every day to learn

10:47

about the legal system and basically

10:50

just monitoring to get him

10:52

out of the delusional state. If he's faking,

10:54

then he might never come out of that

10:56

state. Very true. That's

10:58

why we have to watch so closely.

11:01

It's really hard to fake it 24

11:03

hours a day because that's your home,

11:05

that's your living environment and

11:07

there's always multiple people watching you. So

11:09

the psychiatrist could make a determination

11:12

that the symptoms are not real.

11:14

Exactly. And then boom, you're

11:17

ready to go to trial. Once they figure

11:19

out through usually the nurses

11:21

notes that they're malingering, then

11:23

they do their best to

11:25

try to get them back to their home

11:27

city to go to trial. Are

11:29

you a little bit nervous having this

11:31

patient assigned to you, you know, given the fact

11:34

that he's a white supremacist? A little

11:36

bit. Like have you dealt with something like this before? Are

11:38

you worried he's going to like, I don't know, attack you

11:40

or something? I think... I

11:43

mean, it doesn't sound like a

11:45

very safe environment. So that's why I'm asking you

11:47

where your head is at. If you're

11:49

always worried about being attacked, I mean, you're always going

11:51

to assume this patient is going

11:53

to attack you in that environment. I

11:55

don't know that it was heightened,

11:59

but definitely... And then, technically,

12:02

the maybe verbal aggression,

12:04

I know I was worried that maybe he

12:07

would just make everything harder. I mean, it

12:10

wouldn't be the only one to use racial

12:12

slurs and say things. A lot of it

12:15

is just out of the psychosis and then

12:17

they're great. But I think for him, it

12:19

would have been a concern that it would have just gone

12:22

on and on and on and on and on. I

12:25

see. When you met him that day, did he

12:27

use racial slurs or did he

12:29

appear aggressive toward you? No, he

12:31

was pleasant. Okay, great. Said hello, that

12:33

was about that. I'm sure that put

12:35

you at ease. Yes. So

12:37

you walk in and you introduce yourself? Yes.

12:40

Can you tell me how that went? I

12:42

believe I just said hello. I

12:46

think he needed his medication right away, so I

12:49

gave it to him. And

12:51

I don't know, he just sort of had a vacant look in his eyes.

12:54

He just had a convict vibe.

12:56

He was covered in tattoos that

12:58

were clearly like prison tattoos. And

13:02

he just sort of seemed to know the system. Like

13:04

some people come in and they're just confused.

13:07

He seemed like he'd

13:09

been through all of this before quite frankly.

13:11

He just wanted his medication and that was

13:14

about it. Do you get a

13:16

criminal background on your patients? Sometimes

13:18

the health history gives it away. You

13:21

don't really get a criminal background because it's

13:23

not really relevant to taking care of

13:25

the health of a patient. And in

13:28

fact, a lot of times it can get in the way. Sometimes

13:30

we just don't want to know. I could

13:32

see it could cloud your judgment or send you down

13:34

the wrong road. Exactly. And

13:36

you're obligated to treat everybody equally

13:39

and as best as you can. So just

13:41

a lot of us just aren't even interested in knowing

13:44

why they're there other than the issues

13:46

that we're there to treat. What was

13:48

it like engaging with him as opposed

13:50

to your other patients? It

13:52

was kind of nice because I would finish

13:55

my work fairly early and then the rest

13:57

of my work was really just out with

13:59

the patients. managing their behavior and

14:01

observing and it can get a

14:04

little tiring and tedious sometimes when

14:06

everybody around you is

14:09

struggling with their mental health

14:12

and maybe delusional, not making

14:14

a lot of sense or you just don't

14:16

really have anybody to have a conversation with

14:18

for the most part. So it was nice

14:20

having him there because we could

14:23

talk to him and he could talk back and it

14:25

was great and you know, he would

14:27

sit outside when I would take the patients outside. We

14:29

would just have little conversations. So despite

14:31

his stated ability to fly, he

14:36

tended to carry on pretty normal conversations. Yeah,

14:39

I never saw any hints of him

14:42

trying to fly or anything or thinking

14:44

he was in the FBI or anything like that. Did

14:47

you talk about race at all? You know

14:49

what? No. I feel like

14:51

over the course of the very short time

14:53

that I actually took care of him, I

14:55

kind of forgot that that was even an

14:58

issue because he was so kind and respectful

15:00

and pleasant to everybody,

15:03

all the staff at least that I

15:05

forgot. It was even really a thing. So

15:08

he wasn't treating you any differently or in any

15:10

way that you know, would set off alarm bells?

15:13

No, it was a primarily, I'd

15:15

say African-American staff and I

15:17

never heard him or heard of him being

15:21

disrespectful or racist

15:24

in any way. But

15:26

then one day you hear about a

15:28

disturbance that took place in the facility. Yes.

15:33

Tell me about that. And

15:36

just ahead, we begin to understand troubles worldview

15:39

and we'll also get a chilling account of

15:41

how things operated in the psychiatric facility. Stay

15:43

with me. We

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use our phones for everything at this point

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but did you know that you can use

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Check the show notes. And

17:21

we're back with Angela's secret. I

17:25

was working, I was

17:27

on my unit and

17:31

there was a fight going on on a

17:33

different unit and it was all glass so

17:35

the supervisors could see in. So, I could

17:37

kind of look out and see something was

17:39

going on. Oh,

17:41

is that very common? Yeah,

17:43

I'd say so. I'd say at least one

17:45

incident a day and then depending on who

17:48

the patients are, you've got maybe multiple.

17:51

It was just for various reasons. Was

17:53

this bigger than normal or? It

17:56

was. It seemed like

17:58

everybody was there. on

18:00

that unit. All the supervisors were over there

18:02

and it seemed like it was lasting a

18:04

long time. And then one of the patients

18:07

came over to my unit and that was

18:09

kind of unusual but they sent him over

18:11

to cool off. That was

18:13

trouble. So that's trouble. I

18:16

take it trouble is the street name

18:19

of the white supremacist. Yes, that

18:21

was his street name. Had anybody been heard

18:23

in the disturbance? Yes.

18:26

So he came to my unit and

18:28

he sat down. He'd been up there to

18:30

cool off. He started telling

18:33

me the story.

18:35

The patient who had

18:37

come in and punched

18:39

the other guy for

18:41

no reason just to sort of assert his dominance.

18:44

And he had, I guess, been

18:46

in quite a few facilities and

18:48

he understood that even if

18:50

you're aggressive, if you stop immediately,

18:54

then there's really nothing anybody

18:56

can do about it because you're no longer being dangerous.

18:59

So what trouble told

19:01

me was that

19:04

the supervisors were trying to

19:06

figure out how to restrain

19:08

this new guy and give him

19:11

medication to just sort of knock him out

19:13

for a few days just so he wouldn't

19:15

be difficult anymore which is not legal

19:17

but. Start going a lot? Oh,

19:20

yeah. The first, when

19:22

I first got there, the psychiatrist,

19:25

the head one, his theory was if they

19:27

come and we put them to sleep for

19:29

a week, then they wake up and they're

19:31

a lot better. That's his theory? That

19:33

was his theory. The problem was that

19:35

you usually have to restrain

19:38

them to knock them out. So

19:40

there ended up being a lot

19:42

of maybe intentional riling

19:44

up of certain patients in order

19:46

to restrain them and

19:48

give them an injection so they'd go to sleep. Oh

19:51

my God, this is terrible. I mean, this is

19:53

a whole other story. Yes.

19:56

Holy cow. Yeah. There was

19:58

one One time when

20:01

my supervisor, the

20:03

one that was bullying me did that

20:06

and she didn't call the doctor

20:08

to get the medication orders. So,

20:10

she gave an injection and

20:13

it turned out the patient was allergic to it. Oh

20:16

my God. Yeah, this is all

20:18

within, you know, just a month of me

20:20

starting. So, that goes back

20:22

to trouble. They asked

20:24

trouble to go

20:27

start a fight with the new patient.

20:29

They told him go start a fight,

20:31

you know, put your hands on him

20:33

and then we'll have a

20:36

reason to come intervene. When

20:38

we start to come, just stop,

20:41

step back. We will leave you

20:43

alone. We will restrain this

20:45

other patient and we will inject

20:47

him with medication and you

20:49

will not get in trouble. There

20:52

is so much going on here, Angela. I

20:54

know. Oh my goodness. First

20:57

of all, what's in it for trouble to

21:00

follow along with this request? Like,

21:02

you know, why would he say yes? That

21:05

is a great question that I

21:07

don't necessarily have the answer to. I

21:10

think that in the world he

21:12

was living in, fighting was normal

21:14

and it really wasn't that big of

21:17

a request. His

21:19

name is trouble. Okay. My

21:21

other question is why does the staff who

21:23

wants to put this other patient to sleep,

21:26

why even go through these motions if everybody knows it's

21:29

fake anyway, just inject him and be done with

21:31

it? Why go through all this

21:33

charade? Because

21:35

the law says we cannot restrain

21:37

unless a person is an

21:40

immediate threat to himself or

21:42

others. Okay. So, they

21:44

just create that condition? Yeah. They

21:46

create that condition and you can't

21:48

give medicine through injection

21:51

without consent unless the person

21:53

is an immediate

21:55

danger to self or others. So, it

21:58

became an environment where... you

22:00

created these situations

22:02

so you could medicate these

22:04

patients because a lot of them were refusing

22:06

medication. And did everybody know this was

22:08

going on? Absolutely. Why

22:11

wasn't there anybody that would report this? I

22:19

think it was fear. Like

22:21

I said, it was a really toxic environment

22:23

and there was a lot of bullying going

22:25

on. So if you

22:28

didn't fall in line, then

22:30

you were a target for the

22:32

bullying. It was also a

22:34

lot of you being

22:37

involved, right? So there is

22:39

a fear that maybe in some way

22:41

you would get in trouble. In

22:43

this particular incident, I remember one

22:46

of my friends was the nurse

22:48

on the unit and after

22:51

every incident, you have to write a

22:54

report about exactly what happened. And

22:58

instead of her writing the report, she had

23:00

my supervisor write it. So

23:02

my supervisor just created

23:04

a story that was

23:07

all lies, you know, of course, because it's going in

23:09

their medical record, you're not going to write what actually

23:12

happened in that horrible situation.

23:15

So then the nurse that was actually working on

23:17

the unit, my friend, she

23:19

basically had fraudulent documentation

23:22

under her own name. So she

23:24

didn't want to report it. Nobody

23:26

there wanted to report it because they were all involved. Yeah,

23:29

this is not an ethical situation. This is not

23:31

an ethical situation but it was happening all the

23:33

time. But this one weighed pretty

23:36

heavily on me personally. It

23:38

did. It did. So did you do something?

23:41

I did. I mulled

23:43

over it for a

23:45

few days. I had some

23:49

techs working under me who

23:52

were also very concerned

23:54

and they felt like I was the best person to

23:56

report it because I was the person that had heard it

23:59

firsthand. But

24:01

I was also being bullied. By

24:03

your supervisor. Exactly. And she

24:05

was the one that was instigating this entire

24:08

situation. So there was a fear

24:10

of retaliation

24:12

because you're putting your trust in

24:14

the person that you're reporting all of

24:16

this to. They should

24:19

keep it anonymous but that doesn't mean that they will.

24:22

They should do something about it but that doesn't mean that

24:24

they will. So you're putting

24:26

yourself at risk. So it

24:28

took me a few days but

24:30

I did go report it. Well

24:33

good for you. I mean this is a

24:36

classic whistleblower situation but... It was terrifying. Proud of

24:38

you for stepping up. Yeah, you must

24:40

have been terrified. Yeah. But

24:42

it wasn't the first incident so I

24:45

kind of had a litany

24:47

of stories to tell. Tell

24:50

me about another incident. And

24:52

back to a lot

24:54

of the issues regarding money and

24:57

not feeding the patients

25:00

adequately. There

25:02

was a patient who was hungry

25:05

and he ate all of the food he was allotted

25:07

and he was still hungry and he was angry. And

25:11

I remember he ran up to the

25:13

cart that had all the food trays

25:15

on it and he knocked

25:17

it over, he kicked it over, went

25:19

on a rant about how he

25:21

was starving, he was not

25:24

being allowed any extra food even though

25:26

he was taking all these medicines that

25:28

increased his appetite. I

25:31

remember that same supervisor coming in and she

25:33

was supposed to manage the situation but instead

25:35

she called him an asshole, told him you

25:37

know that he was nothing but scum and

25:39

he needed to go back to prison and

25:41

obviously that's not an appropriate way to speak

25:44

to a patient or anybody. So

25:46

I think that had happened maybe the day before.

25:48

So when I went and I

25:50

talked to the patient liaison, those

25:52

are two things that I brought up. And

25:55

so you said that your boss bullied you? Oh

25:58

definitely. Did she yell at you? in front of

26:00

patients? All the time. I remember one time

26:02

I forgot to chart that I had given a medication and

26:04

part of the reason was

26:13

she had been yelling at me at the time. So

26:16

I just I forgot to click that little part on

26:19

the chart and she

26:21

came in to the unit and on

26:26

a 10 minute screaming

26:28

rampage and I look and

26:30

I see all the patients and they're just

26:32

standing there watching, listening to her

26:36

screaming at me. It was actually

26:38

another staff member that ended up

26:40

coming in and telling my boss

26:43

something like they needed her for

26:45

something and it's because everybody

26:48

in the entire facility knew it was going on

26:50

and he was just coming to rescue me. So

26:53

things like that happened all the time. Wow

26:57

well this is a toxic environment no doubt. So

27:00

well thanks for that detail. So

27:03

getting back to the

27:05

situation that you reported, did it ever

27:07

get back to your supervisor? It

27:09

did because it was something

27:12

that had to be reported

27:14

to the state really. And

27:17

did she know that it came from you? I

27:19

don't think she knew by name but

27:22

I think she guessed

27:24

it. I found

27:26

out later she was watching the

27:29

recordings from the CCTV to

27:31

see who was talking to this patient. So

27:34

she's doing a little investigating to figure out who it

27:36

was? She was because she narrowed

27:38

it down to the people who she

27:40

could see had had conversations with trouble

27:44

and pulled us all in separately

27:46

into her office and

27:50

interrogated us. Oh

27:52

my gosh what kinds of questions did she ask you? If

27:55

we had been sneaking things into

27:58

the facility for trouble. if

28:01

we had been having

28:03

inappropriate relationships with him.

28:06

Like what?

28:09

I don't even really know. I assume

28:13

that she was

28:15

talking about something like,

28:17

you know, passing notes to each

28:19

other or I couldn't

28:22

even tell you because there was

28:24

no specifics. The point was she

28:26

was making was that trouble had

28:29

actually reported me

28:32

and a couple other people and

28:34

said that we were having an

28:36

inappropriate relationship with him. We were

28:39

having some sort of romantic intimacy

28:41

type of thing with him. And

28:44

that was not true. That was not true. I

28:47

don't think I had even seen him

28:49

since the incident. So

28:51

she has been reported for an

28:54

ethical lapse and her

28:56

response is to make accusations against

28:58

the people that she thinks turned

29:00

her in. Exactly. I think

29:02

it was to undermine our

29:05

integrity, I guess. You know, if she...

29:07

For sure. If nobody could trust

29:09

our words, then they were worthless. Right.

29:13

Yes. I mean, what a strategy. You're coming to

29:15

work and you're playing chess all day with your boss. Yeah.

29:18

And then you're going home and nobody understood

29:20

what was going on because as you can

29:22

tell, it's like really convoluted and there's a

29:24

lot of stuff going on. Right. And

29:27

how do you go home and tell your friends

29:29

or your family what is going

29:31

on in this kind of sick, twisted

29:33

game? Your boss said

29:35

that trouble had said that

29:38

he was having an inappropriate

29:40

relationship with you. Mm-hmm.

29:42

Did she say how he defined that? Like

29:44

what was going on, supposedly? I

29:48

think just that I was, you

29:50

know, sneaking in contraband, it

29:52

was a common... I shouldn't say

29:54

common, but it was a repeat

29:57

occurrence occasionally that... somebody

30:00

would come and work there and they would end

30:02

up, I don't know, sneaking

30:04

in food for patients or good

30:07

razors so they could shave, just things

30:09

like that. I think

30:11

that they had found some colored pencils

30:13

in his room and that's considered contraband

30:15

because you can also do a lot

30:18

of harm to somebody with a sharpened

30:20

pencil. She was saying that I was the

30:22

one that had brought it in but I

30:24

don't know, we were talking and having

30:26

intimate conversations for long periods of time in

30:29

a romantic relationship. It's

30:31

not possible to actually consummate a

30:33

relationship with somebody there, is it?

30:36

Ah, that's a good question. We

30:40

actually did have a

30:42

patient and a staff member who

30:44

got married while he was there.

30:48

But I don't know if it was consummated. Right.

30:52

It would be very difficult, there's people everywhere.

30:55

I just wonder if that's, you know, you hear an

30:58

accusation of a romantic relationship and of course

31:00

you wonder if that's an aspect of the

31:02

accusation. It's possible. It's

31:05

something that happens all the time.

31:07

If you look it up, there's people getting fired

31:09

from jails and prisons and psychiatric

31:12

facilities for all kinds of sexual

31:14

impropriety and falling in love with

31:16

patients. How did your

31:18

boss characterize the allegation

31:20

from trouble about you? Did she believe it?

31:23

It was a game, right? So in

31:27

this confrontation between the two of

31:30

us, it was

31:32

her taking my side suddenly,

31:34

right? You've been bullying me for a

31:37

long time but this

31:40

conversation is now, I don't

31:43

believe this but he is saying this.

31:45

And so I'm here as your ally, as

31:48

your friend to warn

31:50

you that this is

31:52

happening, to stay away

31:55

from trouble because he

31:57

is trying to destroy you.

32:00

and I'm trying to protect you. And

32:02

so what did you make of all this? Oh,

32:04

at the time I was so confused. I

32:07

had a hard time believing

32:09

that Treble would accuse me

32:11

of any of these things because

32:13

to what end? But on

32:16

the other hand, she was

32:18

also trying to manipulate me. So I

32:21

was just confused

32:24

about all of it. I'm extremely stressed out.

32:27

So you have a friendship already established with Treble. What's stopping

32:29

you from just asking him about it? Like why would

32:31

you say this about me? He was

32:33

moved to a different unit and

32:36

I was banned from working

32:38

on that unit. I was banned from going

32:40

on that unit. It was for

32:42

my own protection because I was

32:45

getting these terrible lies told about

32:47

me. And so there was no

32:49

communication between us at all. So

32:52

you're just kind of out on a limb. You

32:54

were developing this friendship and

32:56

these accusations come in and you're like, damn,

32:59

what is going on? And did

33:01

part of you believe it? I think a lot

33:04

of me believed it because he was

33:07

a patient at the facility and

33:09

he was there as

33:12

a multiple time convict. And it was just

33:14

a toxic type of situation where like you

33:17

even refer to it as a friendship and

33:20

the reality is that shouldn't

33:22

even be in your vocabulary

33:24

with a friendship. I

33:26

mean, it's a therapeutic relationship

33:30

but things were

33:32

so messed up. Like we were so

33:34

bullied by the people above us that

33:37

we sort of started to form an alliance

33:40

with our patients and

33:44

then the boundaries got blurred. That's

33:46

really tough. It is. And if

33:48

you are being screamed at

33:51

and then the patient on

33:53

your unit terrorizes the person who was

33:55

screaming at you like as a

33:58

vengeance type of thing. which

34:00

happened all the time. It, like, blurs the lines

34:02

even more. Well, I cannot even

34:04

imagine what you were going through. And

34:07

then there's another dimension to it, right, Angela? Where...

34:09

You mentioned in your secret to me that you

34:11

were having trouble at home, too. But

34:14

it was a dark time in your life. It was. And

34:19

just ahead, how Angela navigated a complicated mix

34:21

of love, racism, and the two very different

34:23

worlds that she and trouble came from. In

34:31

Las Vegas, we've all heard the warning

34:33

of the house always wins. But

34:36

there are ways to beat the house. As

34:40

I grab all the chips, I just turn around

34:42

and book it. From

34:47

Waveland and Pegalo Pictures comes

34:49

the story of a man who robbed the house and

34:52

lived in it. This

34:54

is the High Roller Hype. Wherever

34:57

you get your podcasts. And

35:06

now Angela's secret continues. I

35:10

was going through the realization

35:14

that I

35:16

was going to need to divorce my husband

35:18

at the time. What

35:20

was going on? I

35:23

had found out that he had an affair

35:27

with somebody that

35:29

I thought was my best friend at the time. That's

35:32

terrible. It was probably the

35:34

third one. Yeah,

35:37

your husband knew that you found out. Yeah,

35:40

it was a

35:42

lot. He was my high school sweetheart.

35:45

So we'd been together for, I don't

35:47

know, at the time, probably 15 years or something like that.

35:52

And so I didn't know anything but him. But

35:55

I was trying to grapple with the

35:58

fact that my life... life wasn't

36:00

going to have him in it. Well,

36:03

so you don't really have a safe space,

36:05

do you? Work is not good, work is

36:07

toxic and home is toxic too. Exactly.

36:10

And like I said, there's no

36:12

real language to express what work

36:15

was like. It was very isolating

36:17

because we couldn't speak anybody about it. But divorce

36:19

is also really isolating too.

36:22

Like, it's hard to put those feelings,

36:24

those experiences into words. So, it

36:26

was all very lonely.

36:30

So, what is happening at work with

36:32

regards to the allegations

36:34

that your boss said that trouble made?

36:36

Is there going to be an investigation?

36:39

Yeah. There was going to

36:41

be an investigation. We didn't know when. So,

36:44

you must be scared that they're going to make a determination

36:46

that you're having an inappropriate relationship

36:48

even though you aren't. I was. On

36:52

one hand, I had a suspicion that the

36:54

investigation really had nothing to do with me and it

36:56

was just a control tactic. And on the other hand,

36:58

I was terrified that it did and anything

37:01

could happen. How did that roll out? I

37:04

was afraid that

37:07

trouble wasn't

37:09

going to, I guess,

37:11

stick to the story that he had told me.

37:16

The story about him

37:19

getting into a fight with the other patient

37:21

because that is what I had reported, right? Okay.

37:25

So, I was afraid that this

37:27

investigation was going to come and

37:30

he wasn't going to back up

37:32

the story that I had told but I

37:34

couldn't talk to him. I couldn't ask him.

37:37

Right, because he's in a unit

37:39

you're banned from. Right.

37:42

If we all tell the same story, which is

37:44

the truth, then it holds

37:46

a lot of validity. If

37:49

I go into a room with

37:51

the investigators and tell

37:53

them this story and then trouble

37:55

says, you know, that didn't happen.

37:58

So, that's problematic for me. right? There's

38:01

a code that a

38:03

lot of convicts have that you don't

38:06

snitch. Knitches get stitches and all

38:08

that. So just because he told

38:10

me did not mean that he was going to

38:12

tell the investigator. Gosh, if

38:14

I were you, I'd be looking for some way to get

38:16

to him. I did. I tried. I

38:19

went on the unit one time and somebody

38:22

told me that I needed to leave. So

38:24

I realized I couldn't talk to him at work.

38:28

The only way I could think to talk to him

38:33

was to call him. He

38:36

has phone privileges? They did. That's one

38:39

of those patient rights. They can receive

38:41

incoming phone calls. So

38:43

one day after work, I

38:46

actually went and bought

38:49

a cheap burner phone. Okay.

38:53

Yeah. I had

38:55

to write down the patient line

38:57

phone number because why would I know it? And

39:00

I called and asked for

39:02

trouble. Wow. Very true crime. I

39:05

know. With your burner phone.

39:10

Yeah. Things went dark there. Right.

39:14

So you asked for trouble and he came to the phone.

39:16

Was he surprised it was you? Yes.

39:19

He was definitely surprised. They tried to play it cool.

39:22

And I just straight up asked him, first

39:24

of all, did you say this to my

39:26

boss? Did you tell my boss that we

39:28

were having an inappropriate relationship? Okay.

39:31

And his response was something like, no, you

39:34

know, why would I do that? What would

39:36

I stand to gain? And then he said

39:38

something on lines of that's not who we

39:40

are. Which

39:43

kind of struck me as odd. Yeah.

39:45

What did that mean? I don't

39:47

know. I couldn't figure it out as

39:50

the time. So

39:53

it just sort of kind of just shook

39:55

me a little bit. And

39:58

then I asked him, you know, are you Are you

40:00

going to tell the investigators

40:03

what happened or are you

40:05

going to deny it? And

40:08

he told me, you know, if they come, I'm going to tell them

40:10

the truth. I'm not going to leave you hanging.

40:13

There's a lot of, you know, credibility questions

40:15

swirling around here, you know. Right. First

40:18

of all, did you believe him when he

40:20

said he did not make the allegation? And

40:23

did you believe him when he said he was going to tell the truth? Oh,

40:28

I think I for the most part believed him.

40:30

But like you said, there are some credibility

40:33

issues there. Yeah.

40:36

It's hard to keep track of who's telling the

40:38

truth, who's not. Exactly. My

40:40

anxiety was already so high.

40:43

It must have been somewhat reassuring that he gave

40:45

you the answers that you were hoping to hear.

40:48

It was. I felt a little bit of calm. Or

40:50

is he actually probably felt a lot of bit of

40:53

calm hearing that? I would

40:55

think so. Was that

40:57

the only time you talked to him or did you talk to

40:59

him somewhere? At

41:01

the end of that conversation, he said

41:04

something like, you know, if you ever need

41:06

anybody to talk to, you can

41:08

call back. It's very casual.

41:11

He's the patient. Yeah. It

41:14

should be the other way around. Exactly. So

41:16

you really see how these lines are

41:18

blurred here. It's no longer a one-way

41:20

therapeutic relationship. He's offering services now.

41:23

Exactly. Exactly. And

41:25

when he said it, of course my thought was, okay,

41:28

that's weird. I'm not calling him back again.

41:32

Right. And then I

41:34

think two nights later I did. Question.

41:39

Why did you call him back? Well, what question did you

41:41

have for him? I don't

41:43

think I had any questions. I think I

41:46

had this really messed up,

41:48

confusing, dark

41:50

game going on at work. And

41:54

nobody outside of work could understand it.

41:57

The people at work could. But

42:00

you can only talk about it so much, you can't

42:03

really talk about it in front of patients. So,

42:06

paradoxically, the only person you could trust

42:09

to have a real conversation about and a

42:11

safe conversation about it is

42:13

with the patient. Exactly, because

42:15

he was there, he understood.

42:19

So, I wasn't

42:21

talking to somebody just very

42:23

much separate from what was going on, I was talking

42:25

to somebody that was in it and

42:28

it brought me a little bit

42:30

of peace, I guess, just to vent and

42:32

have somebody understand. Totally get it. Yeah,

42:34

and take my side. And

42:36

yeah, right, of course. I'm assuming that

42:38

conversation turned into more. Did

42:41

you call him regularly? I did. From

42:43

your burner phone? Yes, that burner phone. If

42:45

you don't remember, I was still married, so. Right.

42:49

I had to have the phone and it was also, so I

42:51

had a different phone number. So, in case

42:53

the facility did something weird

42:55

and like pulled call records, it wouldn't show

42:57

my phone number because, as you remember,

42:59

I had been falsely accused already of having

43:01

a relationship with

43:03

the patient. So, I

43:06

did, I called him every day. Every

43:08

day, wow. Okay, so I picked up on something you

43:10

said, Angela. You said, you know, that you were calling

43:12

him, but remember, you were

43:15

married. Yeah. So, that

43:17

tells me that maybe your telephone conversations are getting

43:19

romantic? I first, but

43:22

this is highly unethical as

43:24

it is, just calling the

43:26

patient and having

43:28

a two-second conversation. I

43:31

didn't want anybody to know,

43:33

especially from the outside,

43:36

I am coming home and I'm

43:38

distraught because I'm being falsely accused

43:40

of having an inappropriate relationship with

43:43

the patient and then I'm on the phone

43:45

with him. It didn't make sense.

43:47

I didn't want anybody to know. And

43:49

I'd say, within a few

43:51

weeks, yes, it did start getting

43:55

romantic. Hmm,

43:58

wow. So love

44:00

is blossoming over the phone. Yeah,

44:03

I think that we

44:06

had a weird

44:08

feeling of connection already.

44:11

I had this sort of feeling

44:14

like I had known him for

44:16

a thousand years for

44:19

different lifetimes. I didn't

44:21

think anything of it initially, romantically, just

44:24

sort of like wowed by this weird

44:27

feeling. Hmm, sounds very

44:29

profound. Yeah, but I didn't

44:31

know what it meant. I just

44:33

felt like I was

44:35

supposed to help him in some

44:37

way initially. So

44:40

then when we started talking on the phone, yeah, it

44:43

blossomed pretty quickly. I

44:45

think because of that connection that we had already

44:47

had, I just I only

44:49

saw him as a patient at first and

44:51

that sort of morphed when we started a

44:53

personal relationship. Did you guys

44:56

confess your love for each other? He

45:00

did. He did. He

45:02

went first. He did, yeah. Maybe

45:05

after a month

45:08

of talking every day, he told me

45:10

he loved me. Were

45:12

you surprised to hear it? I was. It

45:15

sort of sent a shock to my body. I

45:17

couldn't think. I couldn't speak. It

45:20

was like a shot of like

45:22

heroin to my brain. I'd

45:25

spent so long so down and

45:27

depressed and feeling unloved and unseen and that

45:30

was like a drug. So

45:32

it's quite a conundrum you have here. You're

45:35

married. It's on the rocks. You're

45:38

in love with a man who

45:40

is a patient, who's in a psychiatric

45:42

facility, headed back to court and

45:44

potentially facing prison time. Yeah. What

45:48

were the charges against him? It

45:53

was a drug possession charge and

45:57

a forgery charge.

46:00

Nothing violent? No, and it

46:02

was what they call law of

46:04

parties. That means he wasn't

46:06

actually the person? That forged the check

46:08

or had the drugs on him, but

46:10

he was there and they

46:12

just, you know, were determining if he was

46:15

actually a party to this activity. Okay.

46:19

How many years did he potentially face

46:21

for these charges if found guilty?

46:23

Twenty-five. That was

46:25

a long time. It was a long time. A

46:28

lot of it was scary. Yeah,

46:30

but of course, I don't know if you're thinking

46:33

long-term at this point, of course. You've only

46:35

known him for a month or so, maybe a

46:37

little longer. The other complicating

46:39

factor here is, of course, that you're

46:42

of African-American descent and he

46:44

is a ranking member in

46:46

a white supremacist gang. Yeah,

46:48

I mean, you would think that would

46:50

be probably the thing weighing on me

46:52

the most. Yeah. I

46:55

just didn't process it. I didn't

46:58

have personal experience with these things.

47:01

He hadn't treated me any differently. He

47:03

did say one time, you know, you know,

47:06

I've never been with a mixed girl

47:09

before because I'm also mixed with

47:11

Caucasian. A weird thing to say. It

47:14

was a weird thing to say and that's what I thought.

47:17

And he said it in such a profound

47:19

way that I sort of felt like I

47:21

was missing some of the meaning behind it.

47:24

Just thought maybe, you know. He was just letting me

47:26

know. Okay. In

47:28

retrospect, I understand that

47:31

it was very meaningful

47:33

and profound because he had

47:36

lived a life full of

47:38

racism. You know, his mother never would

47:40

have allowed it and then he fell

47:42

into this particular gang and it was

47:45

a big deal. By this point,

47:47

had you both discussed race between you?

47:50

I don't think we'd really discussed it.

47:53

I think that maybe he tried

47:55

and I just didn't quite understand

47:57

it. I think he had some

47:59

fear. about going back

48:01

to jail. I mean, he knew he was

48:03

going to prison because he had a criminal

48:05

background already. The fear

48:09

of how our relationship would

48:11

impact his stay there. Okay.

48:14

Presuming you're going to have a relationship with

48:17

a man who's in prison. Right. But

48:19

I guess if you're in love, you do. I

48:22

don't know. I think

48:25

my brain was just so

48:28

clouded and being loved and

48:30

seen felt so amazing that

48:32

I couldn't imagine giving it up.

48:34

Yeah, because you are not getting that at home. Exactly.

48:37

And I hadn't in years and years

48:39

and the job is so bad. And

48:42

at the time, love makes you

48:44

do crazy things. I

48:47

just sort of was like, la, la, la, la,

48:49

walking down the road. Like, you know, if he goes to

48:51

prison, he goes to prison, you know, we'll make it. I

48:54

don't know. Sure.

48:57

Yeah, why not? Love can conquer all. Right,

48:59

right. In retrospect, it

49:01

doesn't make a whole lot of sense, right?

49:03

But at the time, to me, it

49:05

made perfect sense. Okay. So what came of

49:08

the investigation? They did all

49:10

kinds of looking and they

49:12

didn't find anything when it came to

49:14

me. Okay, good. Yeah,

49:16

they did find my boss guilty

49:19

of improprieties. The weird thing about

49:21

these kind of environments is

49:23

a lot of it gets swept under the table. They

49:26

don't want to take

49:29

on the liability of reporting somebody

49:31

and they're wrong or the

49:33

media getting a hold of it because they're

49:35

kind of like sensational stories. So

49:37

she was just demoted. It's just

49:40

better for everybody to make it go away.

49:42

Yeah, she was no longer a supervisor. She

49:44

was just my coworker. Oh,

49:48

terrible. I suppose that's better, but I

49:50

can't imagine. It was better, but not

49:52

great because she was angry. She

49:54

didn't stay long. I found out she

49:57

left and became the director of nursing at a

49:59

different level. different facility like a high

50:01

level kind of job because it was

50:03

never reported. Great system

50:07

at work. Yeah, it's just a

50:09

lot of... I wonder who she's terrorizing over

50:11

there. Oh my gosh, I know. I actually

50:13

applied to that facility later down the road

50:16

and I had got an interview. They

50:18

called me a couple days before and they

50:20

said, sorry, you know, we're actually just going

50:22

to choose from the applicants that

50:24

we already have. That's so weird. She

50:27

saw your name. Yeah. I was like, I didn't know

50:29

she was there at the time. I just said, that's weird.

50:31

They... Even if they know they're going

50:33

to give the job to somebody else, they usually still have you come in,

50:35

right? But yeah, she must have seen

50:38

my name and I'm grateful for that because

50:40

I would have been horrified if I walked in.

50:42

For sure. Can you imagine? No. She'd

50:45

been interviewing you? Oh no, I would have walked out.

50:48

Never would have happened. Terrible.

50:51

Wow, okay. So I

50:53

imagine that you're also taking some risk by getting

50:56

involved with trouble because if it were to come

50:58

out, you were carrying on this telephone conversation. It

51:00

could impact your career. Yes. Like

51:03

I said, love makes you do crazy things.

51:05

I was, you know, talking to

51:07

him after work and

51:10

then going in and acting like everything

51:12

was normal. He left that

51:14

facility and went back to jail.

51:17

So he was found guilty. He was

51:19

found guilty, yes. And... How

51:22

many years did he get? He got five years. Five,

51:24

okay. So that's a lot

51:26

better than 25. A lot better than 25. So

51:30

were you thinking, gee, maybe I can make it? Yeah.

51:33

Huh. Because he already had, you

51:35

know, some jail time prior to coming to

51:37

the facility. His months at the facility counted.

51:40

So he didn't have a ton of time

51:42

left before he was at least going to

51:44

be considered for parole. Have

51:47

you guys discussed a life after prison? Like

51:50

being together? Oh yeah, all the

51:52

time. I would go visit him and...

51:55

In prison? Yes, yes. You

51:57

get two hours sitting across a table.

52:00

table where at most you're allowed to

52:02

touch hands. And that's if

52:04

the inmate is in good

52:06

standing. If not, then it's

52:09

behind glass or in a

52:11

cage. The first time I went to see him, he was

52:13

actually in a cage. Terrible, like...

52:15

Handcuffed. It's awful. And

52:17

so your blossoming relationship

52:19

with trouble must have given

52:21

you the courage to make changes at home. It

52:24

did. It also put

52:28

me in a position I guess where I had to.

52:31

You know, if he would come up for parole, there would

52:33

be the question of what

52:35

happens, you know, if he

52:37

comes home. It was just a difficult situation

52:39

to be in. And I know that doesn't make

52:42

sense. But I

52:44

was taking a lot of risk just by

52:46

being with this particular person. And as far

52:48

as I knew, he could have gotten out

52:50

and then disappeared completely. Like just

52:52

been using me. For sure. And

52:56

I had a life at home. So you're risking

52:58

a lot. Yeah. Even

53:01

though as I can see from here, it didn't

53:03

matter. Like the

53:05

right thing to do would have been to leave,

53:07

regardless. Eventually

53:10

we did decide that, you know, we

53:12

were going to divorce and we just started living

53:14

together as roommates. And that made things a

53:16

little easier. Did you

53:18

tell your now ex-husband about

53:21

trouble? He actually found

53:23

out pretty early on. He actually found

53:25

a letter that I had dropped somewhere.

53:27

Whoops. Yes. Okay.

53:30

That probably didn't go over too well. It didn't. I

53:33

mean, that is where my biggest regrets lie.

53:35

It's not with trouble. It's

53:39

with my ex-husband because, you

53:42

know, he found out early on and

53:44

he was extremely upset. And

53:46

then he found out again, you know, and then

53:48

again. And I

53:50

didn't have the courage to end it

53:52

and stop hurting somebody in a

53:54

way that they had hurt me and destroyed

53:57

me. And here I am doing the same

53:59

thing because... I didn't have the courage

54:01

to sort of step out on my own. Well,

54:04

I mean, to your credit, you were

54:06

not the one who had the first

54:08

dalliance, shall we say? No.

54:11

No, I wasn't the first. And he

54:13

could have stepped away from the relationship too. He

54:15

could have. Not all on your shoulders. We

54:18

were definitely codependent in that way, you know.

54:21

We'd want to separate but then it would

54:24

hurt so then we would want to comfort each other

54:26

and just be like stuck in this cycle. So it took

54:28

a while to get to the point where we realized enough

54:31

is enough. Did anybody

54:33

else know about your secret relationship with

54:36

trouble? Nobody knew at

54:38

first. I actually

54:41

got my supervisor's job. So

54:43

I was going in as a supervisor. That was

54:45

after she had left? Yes. Okay.

54:48

So you didn't become her boss?

54:51

That would have been great karma

54:53

but I wasn't allowed that. No,

54:56

she was gone. But once I moved

54:59

up into management, I got

55:01

access to more stuff behind

55:04

the scenes and I

55:06

found out, you know, they had been watching me.

55:09

Who had been watching you? The bigwigs at

55:11

the facility and the security team. But

55:14

they never found anything. What do you mean

55:16

they'd been watching you? You know, watching

55:18

me on the cameras to see if I

55:20

was bringing things in. But what a

55:22

work environment. Yeah, I know. For

55:26

the record, I never brought anything in. Ever.

55:29

And you made your burner calls from off-campus. I

55:32

did. So there's just, I was doing

55:34

my job as I should have been.

55:37

But it was different once he

55:39

got out. So

55:41

you made it five years and

55:44

he gets out? Yes. I

55:46

think he did a

55:48

total of two and

55:50

a half years. He

55:53

was released after two and a half years. Yes, so

55:55

it was two and a half years of

55:57

visiting and phone calls and letters and lockdowns

56:00

Oh my gosh, I'm assuming so scary. Did.

56:02

He have any trouble in prison because of

56:04

you. And what I mean is he is

56:06

a white supremacists in a relationship with a

56:09

black woman. He. Dead misses the

56:11

to make a decision right away. Like

56:13

I said earlier when I first visited

56:15

Ham, he was in a cage. Hand

56:18

costs. And that was

56:20

seat says. He. He was

56:22

a confirmed. Gang. Member.

56:25

And. They're not allowed

56:27

like contact things like that

56:30

so he's trying to convince

56:32

the. Gang. Task Force

56:34

that he's not a rescue. So

56:36

I came in to visit Han

56:39

and they notice that the he

56:41

was with a woman of color

56:43

and started dropped him from that

56:45

list so he had more privileges

56:47

By the choice that he made

56:49

was to drop out of this

56:51

gang am it was really the

56:53

only a. Fraction. Of the news

56:55

And now. Their motto is bloody

56:57

and bled out. Once

56:59

you're in, you can never leaves that He had

57:02

to. Do you have pictures of you

57:04

and is so. He. Dead

57:06

and so people. Some ah,

57:08

And. He never told me is what

57:10

a burden police officers are players that

57:12

I know that it was a big

57:15

deal because he was surrounded by the

57:17

people he been in this game last

57:19

the other calling him a race traitor.

57:21

All kinds of things. I know that.

57:24

They. Tried to throw him off the third.

57:26

Stories in the So Bored. Yeah.

57:29

They tried to throw him off the third floor.

57:32

I mean less murder it as murder by

57:34

in L don't know Rojo him. Yes,

57:36

they tried to kill and the article on three to.

57:39

Three. Times And so how did he get out of

57:41

the one. They. Tried to throw him off. And.

57:44

He ended up. Like. Been I was

57:46

something one of the people and nothing

57:48

him. Out or Saracen amps.

57:51

eighty carrying a knife with him everywhere

57:53

he went to as he was a

57:55

target at all times with change for

57:57

him i guess because he was always

57:59

the head And so, tell me about

58:01

the other two instances where they tried to take his

58:03

life. They have separate

58:06

benches in the day room where all the inmates

58:08

go when they come out of their cells to

58:10

watch TV, things like that. And

58:13

a lot of them are racially divided. So,

58:15

there's the white bench and the black bench

58:17

and the Hispanic bench. Everybody is

58:19

separate. He tried to

58:22

sit on the white bench and

58:25

it ended up in a fight and

58:27

somebody tried to stop him, like while

58:29

calling him a race traitor. Wow.

58:33

Yeah. And that got into a

58:35

big fight? Yes. It was

58:37

a huge, huge fight. He ended

58:39

up okay. But the

58:41

next weekend, I was going to go visit him

58:43

and I had like a conflict and

58:45

I just remember him saying, you know, don't worry about

58:48

it. You don't need to come. Like, it's fine. I'm

58:50

not feeling well. Well, I

58:52

found out later he didn't want me to

58:54

come because his face was just pulverized. That

58:57

must have been so hard for

58:59

you. I mean, you probably wanted to

59:01

break up with him just for his own safety.

59:04

I did. I did.

59:06

It was just scary and it was

59:08

something that I didn't understand.

59:12

It's a whole separate world with its own

59:14

rules and it was

59:16

very confusing. It was very scary. I

59:19

wanted to let him go so that he

59:21

could be safe. He's just

59:23

a type that says, you

59:25

know, fuck it. Like I'm going to do what

59:27

I want. I don't care what anybody else says.

59:30

So he stood his ground. And

59:32

so what was the final time they tried to take

59:34

his life? I think it was time

59:37

to eat. And

59:40

two of the people who

59:42

were in the gang that

59:44

actually he was over at

59:47

one time, they had

59:50

one of the guards come lead him

59:52

out so he would be

59:54

alone in his cell. And

59:56

they tried to choke him. They

1:00:00

had him against the wall and one had his

1:00:02

hand around his throat, tried to knock him out.

1:00:05

One of them actually did stab him in

1:00:07

his side. And so he

1:00:09

was in the infirmary for that. It got broken

1:00:11

up. That's what I mean about

1:00:14

like it's a whole different world. You would think

1:00:16

a guard wouldn't have anything to do with that

1:00:18

but some of the guards are

1:00:20

gang members. Some of the guards are very easy to

1:00:22

pay to do things. I mean,

1:00:24

this is just a devastating story. I mean,

1:00:26

you must feel very reassured that he does

1:00:28

truly love you. Yeah, as

1:00:31

time went on, the

1:00:34

fears that I was somehow part of

1:00:36

some long con started

1:00:38

to dissipate. Sure, a guy takes

1:00:41

a knife for you, you know. Yes,

1:00:43

you know, we were bonded. We

1:00:45

were bonded permanently. You're not just dropping

1:00:47

out of the game but you're also

1:00:49

confronting all of your racist beliefs and

1:00:51

thoughts and the way you've been brought

1:00:53

up and it was very,

1:00:56

I don't know, bonding, I guess,

1:00:58

for the two of us in a really terrible way but.

1:01:00

Boy, honestly, it's a real test of a relationship, that's

1:01:02

for sure. Yes, and it really I

1:01:05

think built trust that wouldn't have otherwise been there.

1:01:07

So I'm dying to know, he gets out. Are

1:01:09

you there to pick him up? I was. I

1:01:11

was the one that picked him up. And

1:01:14

so that must have been just the most joyous moment.

1:01:17

It was. It was so

1:01:20

exciting. You don't get a lot of notice when

1:01:22

they put him up for parole. I think maybe

1:01:25

I had 10 days notice or something like

1:01:27

that. So scrambling to

1:01:29

try to make sure he has everything that

1:01:31

he needs and, you know,

1:01:33

they sort of just release, I

1:01:35

don't even know, hundreds at a time

1:01:38

of inmates and they're all walking out

1:01:40

at the same time and I realized

1:01:43

I had never known him. I

1:01:46

don't want to say in real life but like in the

1:01:48

world, I'd only

1:01:50

ever seen him, you know, in his

1:01:52

prison uniform and I just

1:01:54

remember being panicked that I wasn't going to recognize

1:01:57

him when he walked off. Boy,

1:01:59

no kidding. I mean, you must have also been

1:02:01

panicked like, is this going to work? Oh,

1:02:04

yeah, absolutely. I am so curious to find

1:02:06

out if it did. I

1:02:09

wondered if, you know, he would even like me

1:02:11

in the real world. Right, or vice versa.

1:02:14

Yeah, we'd only been in

1:02:16

contained environments. Talking on the phone is

1:02:19

much different than being in real life.

1:02:21

Letters are way different because you can

1:02:23

craft whatever message you're trying

1:02:25

to send. So there was a lot

1:02:27

of fear, yes. What was the first thing

1:02:29

you did after you picked him up? I took him to eat. Hamburger?

1:02:33

No. Steak? I

1:02:36

think he did have a steak. I thought, I'll

1:02:38

take him out to eat and

1:02:40

you can take the place because it's his

1:02:42

first real meal. I didn't realize

1:02:44

how overwhelming that would be. He went

1:02:47

from being told exactly where to go, when

1:02:49

to go, you have no

1:02:51

choices to, I'm driving down the freeway

1:02:53

in a car, you haven't been in

1:02:55

one in five years and

1:02:57

here's a hundred options, pick one. And

1:02:59

so he couldn't. Oh, that's a poor

1:03:01

guy supposed to do. Exactly. He

1:03:04

couldn't. So he just ended up picking the first thing we drove by

1:03:06

which was like cracker barrel. So

1:03:08

that was our technically, I guess our first date at

1:03:10

his first meal and I think he had a steak

1:03:12

or something. Oh, that's

1:03:14

hilarious. Yeah, and we

1:03:16

went to go get a cell phone and that

1:03:19

was just another place of endless options.

1:03:22

Technology has moved a lot in those

1:03:24

five years and I just remember kind

1:03:27

of like wandering around, spinning in circles like

1:03:29

I don't know what phone to get, you

1:03:31

know. This is an amazing

1:03:33

story. You know, my question is,

1:03:35

are you still together today? We are.

1:03:38

We've been married for a

1:03:41

little over five years and we

1:03:44

have two kids. And you

1:03:46

have two kids. Yeah. What an amazing

1:03:48

story. Yeah,

1:03:51

it's been an interesting road. It's

1:03:53

been really lovely to

1:03:56

have somebody who sees me,

1:03:58

who obviously loves me. and would do

1:04:00

anything for me, right? Because he was willing

1:04:03

to die for our relationship. It's

1:04:05

also been a struggle, like I

1:04:07

think most relationships are, but we've got that

1:04:09

added the fact that I carry

1:04:12

a lot of shame about how

1:04:14

we met and how I carried

1:04:16

on and he is from

1:04:18

a different world than I am. He's been

1:04:21

to prison multiple times and dealt

1:04:23

with addiction and all these things. It's

1:04:25

a lot of highs and then, you know, lows mixed in

1:04:28

there. Acclimating from prison is

1:04:30

very difficult. So how long has he

1:04:32

been out? Oh,

1:04:35

he has been out almost six years. And

1:04:37

how old are your kids? They are five

1:04:39

and four. Well, congratulations.

1:04:42

Thank you. What

1:04:45

a love story. Yeah. So your

1:04:47

secret is basically who he is or

1:04:50

who he was and how you met. Yes.

1:04:53

That's not something that I tell people

1:04:55

when they ask how we met. What

1:04:58

do you tell them? I do tell them

1:05:00

that we met at work. Which is true. It

1:05:02

is. They don't assume that he's

1:05:04

a patient. So whatever they assume, I let

1:05:06

them believe. The people that I did work

1:05:08

with at the time, I believe the vast

1:05:11

majority of them have probably figured it out.

1:05:14

So some people know. You said

1:05:16

you've heard some whispers. I have. Nobody has

1:05:18

ever said anything to me.

1:05:21

But I've heard through other people

1:05:23

that, you know, they've recognized

1:05:25

him from social media or things

1:05:28

like that. So I don't think

1:05:30

that it's a complete secret to them. But for

1:05:32

the vast majority of the world, it is. And

1:05:34

so those people that might have it figured out

1:05:36

are people that you used to work with at

1:05:38

the psychiatric facility? Yes. And

1:05:40

they're still in your life? Some of them, yeah. What

1:05:43

does your family think of trouble? They

1:05:45

were very wary at first. Yeah.

1:05:49

This guy flaunting tattoos and he's

1:05:51

in prison and he's got this prison vibe and

1:05:53

comes waltzing into your life. They're like,

1:05:56

what the heck? And they

1:05:58

knew about him prior. because

1:06:00

my ex-husband had known about him. So

1:06:02

they were not... So they know the story. They

1:06:05

do because my ex-husband, you know,

1:06:07

told them... Let me see. You

1:06:10

know, when he got out, they wouldn't

1:06:12

even speak to him. They wouldn't even acknowledge

1:06:14

him. They were afraid. They

1:06:17

looked up his criminal record and

1:06:19

knew, you know, who he

1:06:21

was. Maybe a couple

1:06:23

years after he got

1:06:26

out, they decided to at least have

1:06:28

a conversation with him. And he has

1:06:30

since won them over. I think they

1:06:32

like him better than me now. Well,

1:06:36

that's great. I'm glad I worked out.

1:06:38

You can't really blame them, I don't

1:06:40

think, for being wary. No.

1:06:43

And I... That was a struggle because on

1:06:45

one hand I understood. On the other hand, I

1:06:49

don't know. I didn't want him to

1:06:51

feel isolated. I didn't want our relationship

1:06:53

to not be acknowledged, I guess. But

1:06:56

looking back, I probably would have

1:06:58

felt the same way. I probably would have responded

1:07:00

the same way. But they came

1:07:02

around. He proved himself. He did. Awesome.

1:07:05

He did. He proved himself to be

1:07:07

trustworthy and honest. And like

1:07:10

I said, they love him now. They

1:07:12

love our kids. And I guess

1:07:14

they're too young to have a conversation

1:07:16

with about, you know, your origin story.

1:07:18

But do you plan on telling them

1:07:20

the full truth? That's

1:07:23

a really good question. I think

1:07:26

over time, I'm going to just have to

1:07:28

own it and be

1:07:30

somewhat real, at least with

1:07:32

the people around, you know, who I'm close to. So I

1:07:36

think at some point, yes,

1:07:38

I will end up telling them the

1:07:40

story. Part of why I'm doing

1:07:42

this is I have never told the story before.

1:07:45

Right. It's a baby step to embracing it. Right.

1:07:48

Right. Right. Right. You

1:07:51

know, and I wanted to ask you about that. Do

1:07:54

you ever think about just fully embracing it out

1:07:56

in the open and just letting the world know

1:07:58

and holding your head high? I mean, After all,

1:08:00

it is a story of redemption and triumph for both

1:08:02

of you. Your

1:08:05

husband reformed from some pretty bad days and you

1:08:07

had such a big heart you could see the

1:08:09

good and potential in him and

1:08:11

it worked out so well. Who

1:08:15

cares what people think? I've thought

1:08:17

about it. I

1:08:20

think the problem is maybe

1:08:23

the guilt for the choices that I

1:08:25

made was warranted, but it

1:08:30

sort of turned into shame as I've

1:08:32

kept it to myself. So

1:08:35

it's gone from maybe like some

1:08:37

mistakes that were made to I'm

1:08:39

a terrible person. And

1:08:42

so that's really hard to turn around and

1:08:45

wave proudly. There

1:08:47

was also the issue of the fact that it

1:08:49

was unethical and I could have lost my nursing

1:08:51

license. There was no

1:08:53

way at that point I was going

1:08:55

to be loud and proud. Now

1:08:58

it's a possibility because we've been

1:09:00

together for so long and there

1:09:02

hasn't been any damage from what

1:09:04

happened and I think it'd be healthier for

1:09:07

me. But like you

1:09:09

said, baby steps. Yeah, baby

1:09:11

steps. First one podcast

1:09:13

and then see what's new. Yeah,

1:09:15

exactly. Are you still a nurse? Yes,

1:09:18

but I don't work in the field.

1:09:21

I struggled to do that

1:09:23

feeling guilty and then I started

1:09:26

in education and then I struggled to

1:09:28

do that for feeling guilty.

1:09:30

Like, you know, why am I here acting like

1:09:33

a tighty people on ethics? Oh

1:09:35

no. And when I'm clearly not the expert

1:09:37

on that. So what do you do? I'm

1:09:39

actually a stay-at-home mom right now. Oh great, but you're

1:09:41

a great mom. And what does your husband

1:09:43

do? He's an engineer. He

1:09:45

went back to school when he got out. And

1:09:48

so he runs his own business with

1:09:50

my stepfather. Look

1:09:52

at that. Yeah, no, he's really turned

1:09:54

around. Yeah. And it's not just

1:09:57

him, you know, he's raised in a racist environment.

1:10:00

My mother-in-law who she's the mother of

1:10:02

it. Oh my god, right?

1:10:04

Yeah Wow So how is that relationship?

1:10:06

She must have flipped a lid. She

1:10:09

did she Said some

1:10:11

terrible things. I found out later that their

1:10:13

first visit to the facility where I worked

1:10:15

at my Now

1:10:17

husband told them that he was gonna

1:10:19

marry me someday really and we did well. It

1:10:22

was he had it all figured out Yeah, that

1:10:24

was prior to all of the

1:10:26

stuff and she flipped out when

1:10:28

we got together She made some disparaging

1:10:30

remarks about how she didn't want mixed babies

1:10:33

and she just loves our

1:10:36

boys. Well, she better Well,

1:10:40

I mean if you asked her originally like she

1:10:42

was not gonna be pushing around mixed babies and

1:10:44

carts and Walmart I love a lot of law

1:10:46

and now I mean all she wants to do

1:10:48

is talk to them on the phone and play

1:10:50

with them and She's really she's

1:10:53

grown so much. So I mean the whole

1:10:55

family has changed Exponentially,

1:10:58

but you've had a lot of complicated discussions about

1:11:00

race. Yeah. Yeah, we've had to yes and

1:11:02

hard conversations. Yeah Yeah,

1:11:05

yep Is

1:11:08

there any worry that members of his

1:11:10

former gang would come looking for him?

1:11:13

At first there were a lot

1:11:15

of concerns about that Because

1:11:19

they have the right to

1:11:21

kill him on sight for dropping out and

1:11:26

blood-in blood-out exactly and He

1:11:29

would run into them. Yeah, go to

1:11:32

Walmart and somebody

1:11:34

would approach him or Festival

1:11:37

somewhere like he's very innocuous places

1:11:40

and I didn't realize how Many

1:11:44

were out there wandering

1:11:46

around Wow, so

1:11:48

there were some concern He

1:11:50

actually ended up talking to the

1:11:53

person who had been his and

1:11:55

called boss I don't know and he

1:11:58

got a pass basically the on-site

1:12:00

pill order was no longer in

1:12:02

effect and he should be able

1:12:04

to move freely without worrying about

1:12:07

it. Goodness gracious. What did he say to

1:12:09

get them to cut him some slack? You

1:12:11

know, I don't know. I

1:12:14

think they were friends and he had some

1:12:16

good will and he just personally

1:12:19

I guess it wasn't worth it. Well,

1:12:22

that's some good fortune. When

1:12:25

he first got out, he went

1:12:27

back to his hometown for business

1:12:29

or something and I

1:12:31

remember getting a phone call that

1:12:34

he was on his way back but

1:12:37

he was not okay and that

1:12:39

was before he had talked to the

1:12:41

captain. Apparently, two of

1:12:44

his friends who were also part of the... had

1:12:48

lured him out in his vehicle to

1:12:50

go do something. It wasn't anything that

1:12:52

was a big deal and they ended

1:12:54

up taking him out to the woods

1:12:57

and tying him up to a tree and

1:13:01

trying to kill

1:13:03

him basically for leaving. Oh my God.

1:13:06

Their mistake was that they

1:13:09

wanted to untie him to do the deed.

1:13:13

So he ended up escaping from that particular

1:13:15

situation but barely. Wow,

1:13:18

troubles been through some stuff man. He

1:13:20

has but I think

1:13:22

it wasn't long after that that they decided

1:13:25

to just let him go and he moved.

1:13:27

We live in a different place so

1:13:30

things have been calm. Just when he

1:13:32

first got out, it was wild. I

1:13:34

wonder if he still looks over his shoulder a

1:13:37

little bit just worried that somebody's going to disregard

1:13:39

that stand down order. I think

1:13:41

he does a little. And take matters into their own

1:13:43

hands. I think he does a little

1:13:45

bit. I think as

1:13:47

time goes by, he's less in

1:13:49

people's consciousness. Yeah,

1:13:53

just keep a low profile man. Yeah,

1:13:56

he's hyper vigilant a little bit. When

1:13:58

we go out to eat... He

1:14:01

wants to sit in a corner where he can see the

1:14:03

whole restaurant. You

1:14:05

know, things like that, but it's definitely calmed

1:14:07

down over the years. Well,

1:14:10

you know what, Angela? You

1:14:15

know what, I think? What? At

1:14:17

the end of the day, this is a great love

1:14:19

story. Really?

1:14:23

I do. You

1:14:28

seem surprised that I said that. I

1:14:32

am surprised that you said that. Why

1:14:37

are you surprised? It seems so obvious to me.

1:14:42

I don't know. It just seems so

1:14:45

wild and out there. And

1:14:48

against the norm, you know, what should

1:14:50

be, what should happen. For

1:14:52

sure. Well, it is.

1:14:55

And I understand your feelings of shame about

1:14:57

it because of the ethical lapses that drew

1:15:00

you together. But at the end of

1:15:02

the day, you know you guys rose above it and

1:15:04

really, really made some good out of

1:15:06

bad situation. For

1:15:08

both of you. We did. I

1:15:11

think it brought, you know, good things into both of

1:15:13

our lives. Not a

1:15:16

story. Well, Angela, I'm just so grateful to

1:15:18

you for sharing your story. No

1:15:21

problem. I thought. I just

1:15:23

had a moment after listening to the podcast and

1:15:25

I just picked up my phone and decided, you

1:15:27

know, it's time for me to get it out

1:15:29

and what better place. Blood

1:15:36

in, blood out. It's the code trouble lived by,

1:15:38

but fortunately didn't die by. Angela's

1:15:41

secret, at its heart, is a story of forbidden

1:15:43

love to the max. But

1:15:45

while her love was born shrouded in the shame

1:15:47

of professional missteps, it's also a

1:15:49

hopeful story about the strength of the human

1:15:52

spirit, that love can truly conquer all. It

1:15:55

was their bond that uprooted deep-seated racism

1:15:57

and united the families of two very

1:15:59

disparate cultures. Two families that would

1:16:01

otherwise never have found common ground if it

1:16:03

were not for love. It's proof that we

1:16:05

can unite. See pictures from the

1:16:08

story including Angela, Trouble, and the psychiatric facility.

1:16:10

Look for them on X, Facebook, and Instagram with

1:16:13

our handle, at secretroompod, and you can also join

1:16:15

other listeners in our Facebook discussion group. If you'd

1:16:17

like to leave a voicemail with comments about our

1:16:19

show today, we'll be playing some of them back

1:16:21

on the secret room unlocked. In the US, call

1:16:23

929-265-TSRP. And

1:16:27

on the next Secret Room Unlocked... Jeremy, from

1:16:29

our recent episode to Die Young, is

1:16:31

back responding to the outpouring of

1:16:34

support his story received on social

1:16:36

media and GoFundMe. He also addresses

1:16:38

comments from people who said he got one

1:16:40

thing wrong. Has it changed the way

1:16:42

he feels about telling his wife the truth? Find

1:16:45

out on the next Secret Room Unlocked in one

1:16:47

week. The Secret Room Unlocked is the

1:16:49

premium version of the podcast with Susie Lark. Susie

1:16:51

brings you follow-up and original interviews. And

1:16:54

it's a great way to support your favorite indie podcasts that

1:16:56

could, and get a little extra Secret Room in

1:16:58

your life at the same time. Find

1:17:00

it on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at

1:17:03

patreon.com/Secret Room. And there is a free

1:17:05

trial. Production support this week

1:17:07

from Susie Lark and Luna Patel. And

1:17:10

our original theme was composed by Breakmaster Cylinder.

1:17:13

And on the next Secret Room in just two short weeks,

1:17:16

my guest formed a chat group of women

1:17:19

that was dedicated to terrorizing one man. A

1:17:21

man that had done each of them wrong. What

1:17:23

he did, what compelled her to do it, and what

1:17:26

became of them is our next secret. Thanks

1:17:28

for downloading. This is the Secret

1:17:30

Room, a podcast about the stories no one

1:17:32

ever tells. I bet him.