0:02

The light is here to remove our tears

0:05

and to bring you light

0:07

, oh light . The

0:13

light is here to remove the deep , to

0:15

take us to new heights

0:18

. The

0:20

shadow and the light

0:23

.

0:24

Hi , I'm Elizabeth Winkler and

0:26

today I am here with David

0:28

G . We are on the podcast

0:30

the Shadow and the Light

0:32

. Today we're going to be

0:34

discussing one of my favorite

0:37

subjects spirituality

0:39

. David G .

0:41

Oh yes , spirituality , one of the

0:43

great topics to dive deep

0:45

into . There's so many ways

0:47

of defining it , and so I invite you right

0:49

now to think about your definition

0:52

of spirituality

0:54

or spirit . If we think about

0:56

this concept of the soul , you

0:59

may already be turning off this podcast

1:01

because you're like , oh no , I don't do spirit

1:04

, I don't do spirituality . But

1:06

I believe that everybody on

1:08

this planet , all eight billion of us

1:10

right now , is on a spiritual journey

1:12

. Some of us are a little more aware of it , some

1:15

of us are a little less aware of it , but

1:17

everyone is moving towards

1:19

their best expression . And that is my

1:21

definition of spirituality

1:23

. I see it as human and mortal

1:26

, struggling , stumbling , bumbling

1:28

, crawling through this life , making

1:30

mistakes , making misspeaks , making

1:33

missteps . And then there's

1:35

this best version of you . It's

1:37

perfect , it's whole , it's

1:40

pure , always says the right

1:42

thing , always does the right thing . Hashtag

1:44

now that perfect in every single

1:46

moment . And spirituality

1:49

is the journey that

1:51

we make from our own mortal

1:53

, flawed self in every moment

1:55

to our best , most

1:58

universal , highest expression

2:00

. But it's not a one way journey

2:03

. Upon reaching

2:05

our best expression , we take

2:07

back into this life a

2:10

tweezerful of

2:12

your unconditioned self , an

2:14

eyedropper full of stillness

2:16

, tenuous amount of

2:19

a thimble of pure whole

2:21

consciousness , our best expression

2:24

. And then we take it back , we pour

2:26

it into us , we breathe it in

2:28

and ideally

2:30

it informs us , ideally it

2:32

awakens us , ideally it

2:34

sparks us with greater insights

2:36

and deeper understandings . That's

2:39

spirituality . That's my definition . What's

2:42

your definition , elizabeth ?

2:44

As I'm listening to you , I'm

2:46

just drawn in . For me , it's all about

2:48

connecting in , closing

2:51

my eyes and noticing what's

2:53

present , noticing my mind

2:56

, noticing my heart , noticing my

2:58

body , my breath , and

3:01

then allowing myself to

3:03

notice what's noticing

3:05

, so being in

3:07

that space of

3:10

awareness rather than caught

3:12

by all the movement

3:15

, the form , whatever that may be

3:17

, which we're always doing . And

3:20

as you were speaking , it just brought me right

3:22

there , right to that seat , the

3:25

seat of the soul . You could call it the

3:27

untethered self

3:29

, the higher self

3:31

. It's like the light moving

3:33

into a

3:35

prism . The light is moving

3:38

in and creating a rainbow , and

3:41

I think that we are all part of that

3:43

. We all are a facet

3:45

on that huge jewel

3:48

of the total self and

3:51

, depending on how clear that

3:54

facet is , our expression

3:56

is a result of that . So

3:59

, whether we're in a dark space

4:01

or we are in a clear

4:03

, open , allowing

4:06

space , we can allow that spirit

4:08

to move and flow through us . So

4:11

it's a journey . As you said , ram Dass

4:13

, we're all walking each other home . I look at that

4:15

quote as something that

4:17

brings me back . All the ways in which

4:19

I fall , people allow

4:22

me , or situations , experiences

4:24

, bring me back to that

4:26

wholeness , walking me home

4:29

to that total self .

4:30

So if you're listening to this , you

4:33

can tell we're fans

4:35

of Gary Zucoff , michael Singer , ram

4:37

Dass we would call these

4:39

spiritual teachers , but

4:42

all of them would agree that

4:44

we have the ability in every moment to

4:47

get still and silenced

4:49

. So just listen to this

4:51

, take

4:55

a long , slow , deep breath in and

5:03

ever so gently , let that go Again

5:11

. Long , slow , deep

5:13

breath in , breathe right into your heart and

5:23

release and

5:31

, in this moment , invite the

5:35

vibration . Get

5:50

this vibration into your heart

5:52

and

5:54

journey to the center of your heart and

6:09

feel yourself slowing down . There's

6:13

nowhere else to be , there's nothing else to

6:15

do except to be right here , right now , in

6:18

this sacred , precious present moment

6:20

, and

6:32

feel that stillness inside

6:34

of you , feel

6:45

that silence at

6:48

the end of

6:50

the bowl . And

7:05

now take a long , slow , deep breath in

7:08

and

7:11

ever so gently , let that go . And

7:17

when it feels comfortable , you can ever

7:19

so gently open your eyes

7:22

, open your heart . Welcome back

7:24

. My name is David G . I'm here with

7:26

Elizabeth Winkler and

7:28

we are diving deep into spirituality

7:31

.

7:33

I felt like that took me right to that

7:35

. I am space . That's

7:37

what spirituality is all about letting go

7:40

of anything other than that

7:42

. I am space , not I am Elizabeth

7:44

, I am a woman , I

7:46

am a therapist , I am on

7:48

a podcast , I am meditation

7:51

teacher no , I just am . And

7:53

so when we can be in that space

7:55

of the breath , that

7:58

gone space at the end of the breath , that

8:01

still point , you get to experience

8:03

that unity that

8:05

there's really nothing to say

8:07

.

8:08

Yeah , so goodbye everyone

8:10

. Thanks for stopping by . On

8:12

the Shadow and the Light , the beauty of

8:15

this conversation is that it's so

8:17

profound that you could just

8:19

smile and nod , as we are doing towards

8:22

each other , or you

8:24

can really dive deep , even

8:27

more deeply into it , and on

8:29

this podcast , where we explore

8:31

what heals us , what

8:33

sustains us and

8:35

what transforms us , of

8:37

course we take it deeper . That would

8:40

make the most sense . And

8:42

so , elizabeth , maybe you could talk

8:44

a little bit . As you know , elizabeth is

8:47

a therapist who speaks to literally

8:49

hundreds of people every single week , diving

8:52

deep into their healing modalities

8:55

, and she is this gifted

8:57

alchemist who can help people transform

8:59

from the inside out . I'm

9:03

sure there's so many people who come to you and

9:05

they're on a spiritual journey and

9:08

they talk about their partners

9:10

being on the journey or

9:12

not on the journey , or my partner's not spiritual

9:15

enough , or I know I meditate

9:17

, but they don't do this or maybe you

9:19

could talk about just the concept of

9:21

spirituality and

9:24

your partner , whoever that might be , your

9:26

partner at work , your partner at home , your

9:29

partner in life .

9:31

Yeah , what I've seen time and time again

9:33

and I've said this in my groups with

9:35

women . I've been on a group of women I worked with and

9:38

all of these women said I

9:40

want my partner to come and see you , I want my

9:42

partner to read these books , I

9:44

want my partner to understand these

9:46

different things we're learning , and

9:48

I said they don't need to come . I've

9:50

seen it every time . You transform

9:52

. The whole thing transforms as

9:55

you say . You transform

9:57

yourself , you transform the world . What

10:00

is it ?

10:00

you say I got that wrong . We

10:03

transform the world by transforming ourselves .

10:05

Thank you . We transform the world by

10:07

transforming ourselves . So these women , they

10:09

all said I want my husband to come , I want my

10:11

partner to come . Within months

10:13

, each one of them came back with a

10:15

story of how their husband had

10:18

transformed or their partner had transformed

10:20

themselves . Because it's a

10:22

relationship . So you and I are in a relationship

10:25

. If I change , the whole relationship changes . And

10:27

if I'm practicing presence

10:30

and letting go which is what

10:32

the whole thing is then things

10:34

that used to activate me or I used

10:36

to fight with you or justify or explain

10:38

or defend all of those things , if

10:40

they're gone on my end , it's

10:43

gone because it takes two

10:45

to tango , right , so it's

10:47

not there anymore . So then not

10:50

only they have nothing to fight with

10:52

or move up against there's no resistance

10:54

there but also they're being

10:57

gifted by the energy that that

10:59

person has . So people

11:01

often don't believe me when I

11:03

say this . But I've seen it , I've offered

11:05

that , and now people come back

11:07

to me and they're like , yep , I changed

11:10

. Everything changes . I saw that with my kids

11:12

when I started meditating every single

11:14

morning , instead of me telling

11:16

them to do these practices . They

11:18

noticed how much I shifted , how

11:21

I wasn't as reactive in the morning

11:23

I didn't want to yell at my little kids , getting

11:25

them out of the house on the way to school . It's

11:27

hard , and so when we

11:29

practice these ways

11:32

of connecting to the deeper presence

11:34

within , everyone feels it

11:36

, and it's kind of like when Harry met Sally

11:38

I want what she's having . It's

11:40

exactly that . You see it in the example

11:43

.

11:43

This is so important because the theme

11:46

of this podcast and of these conversations is

11:49

to really find out what is the healing

11:51

that we can experience , what

11:53

is the nourishment we can receive

11:55

. We call that , what sustains us and

11:58

how can I transform

12:00

? I would like to introduce a little

12:02

fly in the ointment of

12:04

spirituality , and that's conflict

12:07

. So how do we

12:09

address conflict , how

12:11

do we massage conflict , how

12:13

do we shift conflict ? Because a

12:15

lot of times that didn't happen in your

12:17

first conversations with these women that you were

12:19

talking to . It took some time

12:21

. They had to then live that

12:24

way . Rather than dragging somebody in

12:26

to experience the session , they

12:28

had to sort of like live it . I remember after I came back

12:30

from the Hoffman Institute , I was distinctly different

12:33

. I felt so different . There

12:35

was a harshness and an anger that

12:37

had just left me . It had left my

12:39

entire existence . David

12:41

Simon said to me yeah , I know

12:43

that you've had

12:45

some really powerful transformation

12:47

going on , because he had also been

12:50

to the Hoffman Institute right after his

12:52

divorce and he was

12:54

like I know you've gone through this powerful

12:56

, powerful healing , but I'm

12:58

still seeing you as the same person . So it's

13:00

going to take me several months until

13:03

I ultimately

13:05

see you as a different person

13:08

, even though you're acting differently

13:10

, even though you're not bringing that

13:12

harshness and anger to these

13:14

other moments , I'm not receiving

13:17

your internal transformation

13:19

so quickly . You're familiar

13:21

with this right .

13:22

Oh , I love it . I love it . So how

13:25

is that for you ? I think that that's great training

13:27

ground for you to see if you've really

13:29

been able to embody this

13:32

new way of being , which maybe

13:34

you haven't , but that's okay . It's like when we're learning how to walk

13:36

, we're learning how to walk . Well , we're still learning how to

13:38

walk every day , right ? I always

13:40

say that . So here you come back . You've

13:42

had an awakening , you've let go of whatever

13:45

you let go of .

13:45

It's classic Joseph Campbell's Heroes journey . Yeah

13:48

, classic .

13:48

Right , the return . Yeah , so you're back .

13:51

I'm back and checking

13:53

in with him every three days now . Can

13:55

you see now , can you see my glow now ? And

13:57

he's like no . Three days later

14:00

. Did you notice how I responded ? In

14:02

that moment I could have scorched the village

14:04

, but instead I was the silent witness

14:06

. He was like , oh , I missed that . And then , like

14:08

three days later , you know , did I

14:10

, did I , did I ? At a certain point I

14:13

just let it go . Five months later

14:15

he comes up to me and he goes , just want

14:17

to let you know . I don't even know when it happened

14:19

, but yeah , I noticed the shift

14:21

. Yeah , so perfect .

14:24

Right , when you let go of needing his

14:26

approval . Right Exactly .

14:28

I didn't need his confirmation ever , but

14:31

that was the tool that I had

14:33

been using prior to . So not

14:35

until I changed that behavior

14:37

. Right , because I could come back and say , yeah

14:39

, I don't have an angry bone in my body anymore , but

14:42

I'm still carrying the same

14:44

mechanics , got the same hardware

14:46

. That's right there right now , until

14:49

I actually allow

14:51

the software to integrate

14:54

or take it to a higher level . And

14:57

so I think that there is this period of time that we

14:59

all have to incubate

15:01

. It's like Shavasana at the

15:03

end of yoga class . It's like , yeah , yeah , yeah , I did

15:05

the practice , but can I fully

15:07

surrender now and allow the

15:10

transformation to work its magic

15:12

?

15:12

Well , and I feel , with COVID

15:14

and all of that , we were taken out

15:17

of the world and then we came back into the world

15:19

and we it's like discovering what that's like

15:21

. That's what it reminds me of You've

15:23

transformed or become something

15:26

new , which we always are . In this

15:28

example , with Hoffman , you

15:30

went in with a deliberate direction

15:32

of something you wanted to work on , but we're

15:34

all letting go . Hopefully , some

15:36

of us are taking on more every

15:39

day , storing more pain in our lives

15:41

. Hopefully this podcast can help people

15:43

not do that . We are always becoming

15:45

something new and if we can be awake

15:47

to that and allow not

15:49

only to see that within ourselves but in

15:51

each other , your story is perfect

15:54

, because we're labeling the people

15:56

that we interact with , especially the people we interact with

15:58

every day , as a particular way of being

16:00

and not getting to enjoy and appreciate

16:03

the beauty of difference that you

16:05

are in every single moment .

16:07

And a lot of that has to do with we're

16:10

so convinced that we know what's

16:12

going on . We're so convinced that

16:14

we know how people are , who people are

16:16

, that we wouldn't even notice

16:19

the change . They would have

16:21

to suddenly start singing a

16:23

song and banging a drum or

16:25

wearing this bright multicolor

16:27

outfit to grab our attention

16:29

. That something's different . Otherwise

16:33

we can feel it . I remember when first

16:35

time I came back from India , I was hanging

16:37

out with my friend Jodi and she

16:39

said oh listen , my friend Tammy's here . And

16:42

so Tammy walks into the room we're

16:44

just hanging out and I'd been back from India five

16:47

days . Tammy walks up to me and she goes ooh

16:49

, I can feel that energy

16:51

fresh and

16:54

it's sort of like when you came back from Bhutan . You

16:56

were in that glow . I remember we did that Instagram

16:59

live while you were in Bhutan and

17:01

totally other side of the planet and

17:03

when you came back there was distinctly

17:06

a totally shifted energy . How could there

17:08

not be ? You spent weeks there where

17:10

all they care about is love and

17:12

goodness and kindness and all

17:14

that stuff . At a certain point it becomes

17:16

you Right . And then

17:19

back to LA for you , exactly

17:21

when all

17:24

of that sweetness and sunrise

17:26

meditation and all of that high

17:29

in the mountains . If you haven't been to

17:31

Bhutan , it's one of those countries , I

17:33

shouldn't say one of those countries . It's perhaps

17:35

the only country that their GNP

17:38

, their Gross National Product

17:41

, is actually replaced

17:43

by what ?

17:45

GNH , so the

17:47

king and the 70s gross national

17:49

happiness . Said , I will not

17:51

judge my country on the gross

17:54

national product . Rather , I

17:56

judge them on how happy they are

17:58

. And it's a real thing . That was

18:00

what I talked to you about . All of

18:02

the stray dogs that you see when you're in India

18:05

or anywhere in the world , they

18:07

do not exist there . I would

18:09

be thousands of feet up hiking

18:11

and these dogs are well

18:13

fed and happy . I mean

18:16

, they do not have a home

18:18

right .

18:18

Even the strays are happy .

18:20

Oh , and they're well fed . And so after we

18:22

climbed up to Tiger's Nest and we

18:24

came down , we had

18:26

a picnic in the middle of

18:28

the field and these dogs

18:31

come prancing up and men

18:33

that were with us were beating butonies . They

18:36

laid out a feast for them and that's

18:38

what they do , because everyone

18:40

is taking care of . And when we talk

18:42

to them about the homeless situation

18:45

that we see so much here , they

18:48

didn't even understand what is that

18:50

. What is homeless ? Because if someone

18:52

didn't have a home , we would take

18:54

them in . So that

18:56

kind of value of how

18:59

do you value your life

19:01

. And so spirituality , to come

19:03

back to the subject , I think really

19:05

is that thread . It's

19:08

the thread of your life . What

19:10

is the ripple , to use your word

19:12

that you want to bring in

19:14

this life ? And when people have a hard

19:17

time with that , I always say I

19:19

invite everyone listening to think about this At

19:21

the end of your life . Let's just consider

19:24

this isn't meant to be morbid , but let's consider

19:26

that today is that day . Today

19:28

is the end point . Just

19:30

reflect for a moment what

19:33

would have mattered most , what

19:36

moments , what people

19:38

, what experiences . And

19:42

when you think about that , most

19:44

people think of relationships , but

19:47

also connect to the energy

19:49

, because we have a lot

19:51

of challenges in relationships

19:54

, but usually it's like

19:56

an energy of love or

19:58

forgiveness , gratitude

20:01

, joy . Connect

20:04

to what that energy exchange

20:06

was that lit you up or that was

20:08

meaningful in this life of yours , and

20:12

then that's your north , I call that your north

20:14

and so you

20:16

can bring that north intentionally into

20:19

your life and I think that's the power of

20:21

connecting you to your spirit and

20:24

I think that's a spiritual life .

20:25

Well , yeah , yeah

20:28

, here's an important thing that

20:30

I would like to say is part of that

20:32

journey the spiritual journey

20:35

. We have all these experiences

20:37

. We go to Bhutan , we

20:39

meditate Tiger's Nest

20:41

, we meditate in the temple . We're

20:44

not in Bhutan , we're hanging out at home and we

20:47

meditate . You know we do whatever

20:49

. We walk in nature , we watch a sunset

20:51

, we see a long lost friend and suddenly

20:53

our heart lights up . Suddenly

20:56

we bite into a delicious

20:58

organic pear , all

21:00

that juice fills our mouth and we smile

21:03

. These little celebrations

21:05

, these little moments . And

21:07

so I have been on a journey for many

21:09

, many years to help us move

21:12

from having these states

21:15

of consciousness , states

21:18

of experience , these states

21:20

of mind , states

21:22

of being , and moving

21:25

us closer to moving

21:27

us toward having these

21:29

as embedded traits

21:32

, because once

21:34

they're traits , then they are you . I

21:36

don't have to reach for that thing , it's

21:39

inside of me . It's like

21:41

having a certain language rather than trying

21:43

to reach for some word that's

21:45

eluding you , it's a word that's inside

21:47

of you . That is first nature Spirituality

21:50

. For me , it's that journey and

21:52

for those I share with this is what inspires

21:55

me to be teaching people to connect to that

21:57

stillness and silence that rests within . It's

21:59

that journey from state

22:01

to trait and

22:04

it takes some time . It

22:06

takes some time . I didn't have spontaneous

22:09

transformation at Hoffman . I'd

22:12

like to think I did , but I had to

22:14

then come home and practice these

22:16

cool things in the real world . It's

22:19

like this concept of

22:22

Virtues Virtues

22:24

need to be tested . We can say

22:26

, oh , I'm very , very patient , I'm very , very patient

22:28

. Yeah , well , try concentrating

22:31

on something and then have someone be

22:33

tapping you on the shoulder every 15 seconds

22:35

. Now it's being tested . Going

22:37

back to that David Simon conversation

22:40

and he was my boss at the time

22:42

, a friend and teacher , but he was my

22:44

boss as well I think he wanted

22:46

me to experience the

22:48

shift from state

22:50

to trait and then see if

22:52

that virtue could be tested . And

22:54

it was tested . When I Ultimately

22:57

stopped caring about if

22:59

he was going to see the difference , right

23:02

, you know , once I was hey , you know what , I'm feeling

23:04

pretty good here . That's when , magically

23:06

, he appeared out of the woodwork and said hey

23:08

, now I notice it . And I was like who

23:11

gives a crap ? Right , good

23:13

for you , I don't need that anymore , I mean that

23:15

approval or that validation anymore

23:18

. So I believe that spirituality

23:20

for those of us who just wanted to still it down , it's

23:22

the journey we make from a most personal

23:25

self to our most universal

23:27

self , our most expanded

23:29

self , and once we get there , we

23:32

don't need anyone else to pat us on the

23:34

back or give us approval . Once we get

23:36

there , we know .

23:38

It's the truth of your existence , right

23:41

? Yeah , yeah , yeah

23:44

, the needing of validation is that often

23:47

I don't know that it was in that experience

23:49

, but it's that doubt

23:51

, that doubt in that experience

23:53

, if you experienced it is a gift

23:56

, because then you're really getting

23:58

to play with . Well , is it

24:00

, does he see it or not ? And then you realize

24:02

because if he'd given that to you , maybe

24:04

, maybe , possibly , you wouldn't have completely

24:07

embodied it .

24:08

Oh , I wouldn't have . It was too early . It was too early

24:11

. So let's ask ourselves right now

24:13

you , maybe you can write down or just think

24:15

about is there some Touchstone

24:18

or mile marker on this journey

24:21

that you're currently on that

24:23

you want to touch or achieve

24:25

, and In some way

24:27

it involves someone else

24:29

, sort of giving

24:32

you the nod that you've attained

24:34

it ? So is this like you're trying

24:36

to be a better lover , you're trying

24:38

to be a better parent , you're trying to be

24:40

a better partner , you're trying to be a better

24:42

colleague or boss or

24:44

employee , or we can go on

24:46

and on . What is that for you , where

24:49

you're so desperately craving that

24:51

approval or Hoping

24:54

to get the nod that you're on the

24:56

right path and you're doing the right thing ? This is

24:58

classic . This goes back , elizabeth , what

25:00

we've talked about on other episodes of the

25:02

shadow and the light , when we go back to our

25:04

childhood , and these are all

25:07

punishment and reward , kind

25:09

of training clean your room and

25:11

you get an M&M . You get to stay up five

25:13

minutes more . Whatever the thing is in

25:15

my house it was so counterintuitive . It was brush

25:17

your teeth and we'll give you a

25:19

chocolate twist , marshmallow twist

25:22

, covered in chocolate . Wait a second . Brushing

25:24

my teeth and I get a chocolate thing

25:26

. It speaks to the

25:28

enlightenment of my parents . But

25:31

I'm so grateful because now I can't

25:33

go to bed unless I eat a piece of chocolate first . So

25:38

when we think about this we realize you

25:40

know , you're on a journey , I'm on a journey

25:43

, everybody listening to this is on

25:45

our journey . But

25:47

we need to make those internal shifts Ourself

25:51

. So let's get real clear on

25:53

that and take some time to

25:55

really go to that space . Who

25:58

do I want to become ? What am I trying to shift

26:00

? And then ask

26:02

yourself that deeper question I why

26:05

?

26:35

The light

26:37

. If it's not , then we'll go to the deep

26:39

to take me to your eyes

26:43

the shadow and the

26:45

light . There's no pocket crop . I don't

26:47

. You hold it at

26:49

your own will , but don't rush

26:52

past this moment . The darkness

26:54

can become a friend , love will come by

26:56

your side and

26:59

you shine brighter than a million

27:01

suns a million suns . You went

27:03

through hell , but now you're in the

27:05

light . It

27:08

is here to remove all your fears and

27:10

bring new sight . The

27:16

light . If

27:18

it's not , then we'll go to the deep

27:20

to take you to the light

27:23

. The shadow

27:25

and the light . There's no pocket crop . I don't . The

27:31

light has come to set us free

27:33

. The

27:41

shadow will come to set us free

27:43

. The

27:47

light

27:49

is here to remove all our fears and

27:51

to bring new light . The

27:55

light , the light . If I

27:59

don't go to the deep

28:01

to take us to new light

28:03

, the

28:07

shadow and the light .