0:19

Welcome to the Shadow and the Light

0:21

podcast with internationally renowned

0:23

meditation teacher , David G .

0:26

And heart healer and psychotherapist

0:28

Elizabeth Winkler , as we guide

0:30

you through our unique fusion of ancient

0:32

wisdom and modern psychology

0:34

. Get ready to awaken

0:37

your true essence heal

1:10

your wounds and transform

1:12

your shadow into Hi David

1:14

G . Oh , hello there , elizabeth

1:16

, the shadow and the light . And

1:20

of course , I'm here with Elizabeth

1:22

Winkler , the transformational

1:24

alchemical therapist

1:27

, slash teacher . And we've been talking

1:29

so much this week about the

1:31

concept of ancestral

1:34

healing and I've got

1:36

some very , very specific questions

1:39

for Elizabeth , and

1:46

I think you might as well , because the beauty of ancestral healing is that we're talking about everything

1:48

that's led up to this moment . Every

1:51

single aspect , from

1:53

the cellular to the psychic

1:55

to the energetic , of

1:57

your entire past and

2:00

your entire existence has

2:02

led us to this moment . And there may

2:04

be stuff in your past your

2:07

past during this lifetime , perhaps

2:09

your ancestors' lifetimes

2:11

, and perhaps even

2:14

before them that has led

2:16

to this moment where you're ready

2:18

to end the cycle . So a lot of

2:20

times in ancestral healings we'll say , well

2:22

, I had an ancestor or there's

2:24

someone in my past that I descend

2:27

from and , quite honestly , they

2:29

were a horrible person and

2:32

I would respond to that by saying , probably

2:34

something in them that

2:36

was also pretty good . So

2:38

could we put our intention on ending

2:40

the cycle of the non-nourishing

2:43

behaviors and

2:45

identifying , perhaps , the nourishing

2:48

behaviors that they did or the accomplishments

2:50

that they did and elevate

2:52

those , because the answer isn't

2:55

just cutting off the past . That's

2:57

impossible anyway . It's

2:59

us being able to assess what

3:01

will nourish me and nurture me going forward

3:04

from my past and

3:06

from my ancestors' lives

3:09

, and what's the thing that

3:11

I could do without .

3:14

In therapy . We hear about this

3:16

a lot , maybe just in

3:18

your immediate family , what

3:20

your parents did or your grandparents'

3:22

patterns in families that

3:25

you want to break , whether

3:27

it be like narcissism , codependency

3:30

, a certain way of attaching or avoiding

3:32

. I hear a lot of conversations around

3:34

that about narcissism . I

3:37

have worked with a lot

3:39

of individuals who want to break

3:41

those bonds , as you're talking of

3:44

not continuing that with their

3:46

children as they're raising children , but

3:48

it isn't always that easy because a lot of

3:50

this is like embedded in

3:53

our DNA . So

3:56

, first , becoming aware

3:58

of what are these tapestries

4:01

that have been woven over

4:03

the years and

4:05

what is the thread that

4:08

nourishes , and maybe there's

4:10

a new way to weave a

4:12

thread that was more coarse in

4:14

any way .

4:15

Yeah , I mean , there's so many contributing factors to

4:17

each one of us . Every one of

4:19

us is impacted and influenced by

4:22

nature and nurture

4:24

. And when we say nature

4:26

, it's not just oh , my moment

4:29

of birth prior to

4:31

me being introduced to

4:33

my parents out of the womb . But

4:36

we're talking about perhaps , patterns

4:39

, themes , threads

4:42

that have run maybe

4:45

for hundreds and hundreds of years , and

4:47

we are that strange

4:49

compendium of the

4:51

obvious nurture once we come out

4:53

of the womb . But there are roles

4:55

even that our parents are

4:58

playing , which are the

5:01

recreating or reinforcing

5:03

of ways that their

5:06

parents treated them , or

5:08

a reaction to Totally

5:11

, right , totally . We think , oh , my parents

5:13

were this , but your parents

5:15

were dynamically in exchange

5:17

with their ancestors living

5:20

or dead and making

5:22

choices and decisions , seeing

5:25

us through

5:27

the eyes of their parents , seeing them

5:29

, that level of reinforcement

5:31

and reinforcement and reinforcement

5:34

and reinforcement . It's like Brundlefly

5:36

in the movie the Fly with Jeff Goldblum

5:39

, where he's like going back and forth , transferring

5:41

his body back and forth , but a fly gets

5:43

put in the mix and

5:51

so at a certain point that fly's DNA starts blending in with his DNA because he's

5:53

transporting himself back and forth . For those of you who've

5:55

never seen this movie , it's not a spoiler

5:57

alert , it's 20 years old and before that it

5:59

was Vincent Price , like 70

6:02

years old . But the premise was he's

6:04

trying to identify a way for

6:06

him to demolecularize himself

6:09

like they do in Star Trek all the time

6:11

, so easily . But to demolecularize

6:14

yourself scatter all your cells

6:16

to the wind and then

6:18

transport them into like another

6:20

space and

6:22

have all the cells reassemble . And

6:25

he was doing fine . He had figured out how to do it

6:27

, but a fly got in the

6:29

mix . So when all the cells

6:31

were scattered and then recomposed

6:33

, he suddenly began growing

6:36

fly body , fly eyes

6:38

and fly hands and

6:41

fly wings . And every

6:43

time he went back and forth and back and forth

6:45

it became more embedded , inseparable

6:48

at a certain point , like pouring

6:51

a glass of red kombucha

6:53

into a glass of water . In

6:55

that moment they're inseparable . That's it

6:57

forever . Yes , you could attempt to filter

6:59

and distill and do all that , it's

7:01

always going to have a red tinge to it , even

7:04

if it settles down to the bottom . And we

7:06

are always going to have , certainly while

7:08

we're experiencing that , with

7:10

our parents or our caregivers . These don't

7:12

even have to be necessarily

7:14

your bloodline parents

7:16

. These can just be caregivers who are

7:18

treating you the way they were treated , by

7:21

people who are treating them , who treated

7:23

them the way they were treated , and so on and

7:25

so forth . At a certain point , most

7:28

of this is unconscious . This is the thing

7:30

that I want to stress . It's not like for

7:33

thousands of years , everyone made these

7:35

very , very conscious choices

7:37

to show up as their best version

7:39

, or their best parent , or their best

7:41

caregiver . They were guessing . They

7:44

were guessing and based on their own domestication

7:46

, based on their own , as Don Miguel Ruiz

7:48

would say , the contracts and agreements that they

7:51

made with themselves and with

7:53

others in their life , just to get by

7:55

, just to show up and perhaps

7:58

demonstrate to someone else . Look

8:00

, mommy , I'm treating my

8:02

child just the way you

8:04

did , looking for approval . So

8:07

I think we all need a certain amount of ancestral

8:09

healing . Now you may say what are you talking about ? My

8:12

mother was amazing , yeah , but

8:14

there's healing that needs to be

8:16

done , because perhaps

8:18

she left you earlier than

8:20

you anticipated , and

8:23

so there needs to be healing there

8:25

. Just like we see God as

8:27

the creator some of us do

8:29

we see our parents in that same

8:32

role . They are the co-creators

8:34

. Perhaps there's a little divine aspect

8:36

to that as well . They are the co-creators

8:39

, and so we go back to the co-creators

8:41

and try to make peace with them . But

8:43

in your instance and

8:45

in my instance , we both have our fathers

8:48

. Right now , we don't have our mothers here to

8:50

have these conversations with

8:52

, make peace with the past or ask

8:55

the deep question or get the nuanced

8:57

or spontaneous answer . So

8:59

there's something left

9:01

, a little bit , perhaps incomplete

9:03

, and so the ancestral healing helps

9:06

us in all these different capacities

9:09

.

9:09

Well , also that sense of isolation

9:12

that we feel from loss

9:14

, you know , is what you're reminding me of , and

9:17

that our ancestors , we stand on their shoulders

9:20

. Oprah talks a lot about

9:22

her mantra for power I heard her

9:24

speak of this which was

9:26

I stand as a thousand

9:28

, which I think is connected to

9:30

Maya Angelou's poem which

9:33

is called Our Grandmothers . I

9:35

come as one , I stand as 10,000

9:37

. And we

9:39

are not alone . And whatever

9:42

your belief system may be , that

9:44

there is the unseen world , which

9:47

is something that I came into connection

9:49

with through my mother's death

9:51

, starting to question those

9:53

things . And so how

9:56

in touch are you with

9:58

the unseen , the

10:00

spirit realm , your ancestors

10:03

that you never even knew , that

10:05

they are embedded in you , embedded

10:08

in your spirit , or however

10:10

you look at that , but maybe starting to

10:12

look at that

10:14

spirit world as alive and

10:17

available , maybe

10:19

just through your dreams , maybe

10:22

through your meditation . For myself

10:24

, dream work is

10:27

the reason I became

10:29

a therapist , because I had

10:31

connection with my ancestors

10:33

, literally there , but also now

10:35

, through meditation , I've been able

10:37

to come into contact in many

10:39

ways to other . Maybe you

10:42

could call it levels of reality , right .

10:59

So there are other ways to access support

11:01

when we let go of just being connected to this physical

11:03

realm . So many different types of sacred

11:06

ceremonies that we can have . You

11:08

know , baptism is a sacred ceremony

11:10

and sacred fire ceremonies have

11:13

for thousands of years been used as rising

11:15

up from the ashes . That

11:18

first step is acknowledging I

11:20

am the byproduct of a

11:22

whole bunch of stuff that came before

11:25

me . That came before me . So first

11:27

of course we honor that and have reverence

11:29

for that , even if that person was

11:31

a jerk or we interpreted

11:33

that person as being harsh or evil

11:36

or abusive or whatever . And

11:38

then we have to realize in humanity

11:40

there's that spectrum of all behaviors

11:43

, all attitudes , all ways of showing

11:45

up . We're all capable of all

11:47

of those under the certain circumstances

11:50

. How do we begin the journey of

11:53

making peace with

11:55

our parents , their

11:58

parents , our caregivers , their

12:00

caregivers ? How do we

12:03

set the ship right

12:05

Now , I know you've done such extensive

12:08

work in your relationship with

12:10

your mother in terms of healing

12:12

that loss and healing that

12:14

grief . But here you are on

12:17

the other side of that , after doing thousands

12:19

of hours of internal therapy and

12:21

helping and healing so many others

12:23

through their thousands of hours

12:25

of therapy . Do

12:28

you find yourself complete in

12:31

that relationship . Are there outstanding

12:34

conversations you wish you could

12:36

have ? Are there moments where

12:38

you're like I'm going to

12:40

just assume that my mother's giving

12:43

me this piece of advice right now

12:45

. Is there that flicker

12:47

that if it was in person I'd probably

12:50

get a better download here , or that would

12:52

be like the true truth ?

12:54

I don't feel the need for that

12:56

in-person contact in the way that I

12:58

used to . I had what I would consider

13:00

kind of a miracle experience

13:03

, which actually involved a dream

13:05

. Working with a dream that healed the heart . I

13:08

talk a lot about forgiveness with this

13:10

sort of healing , but

13:12

it wasn't that . I actually had

13:14

a dream about a fear element

13:16

. I dreamt about

13:19

a rat the night before . Rats

13:21

had always captured fear

13:24

for me . I was on a

13:26

family trip overseas

13:29

. I was with my ex-husband and my children , told

13:31

them about the dream , went and

13:33

sat outside by the water

13:35

and decided to meditate . And

13:38

I went into meditation . I relaxed

13:40

my body because in order for you to

13:42

be able to work with something that's maybe activating

13:45

, you need to be relaxed . So I got

13:47

into a relaxed state and I invited the

13:49

rat from the dream to come in , and

13:52

rats were something

13:54

I always was afraid of , very scared

13:56

, disgusted by shadowy

13:59

. So I totally went into a relaxed

14:01

state , closed my eyes , invited

14:04

the rat in and then all of a sudden my body

14:07

was covered

14:09

by rats licking , biting

14:12

, doing all the things you don't want rats to

14:14

do and I relaxed

14:16

. I totally relaxed

14:18

and as I relaxed they

14:20

completely shifted from

14:23

rats to white light . My

14:26

whole body became a tornado of white light in that moment

14:28

. It

14:38

was a true transmutation experience and after that I came out of it and the hole that I

14:40

had felt in my heart for over 20 years I think it had been like

14:42

22 , 23 years at that point was

14:45

gone and I wrote down on a

14:47

piece of paper . It was filled with love and

14:49

light and it never , ever came

14:52

back . It shifted completely

14:54

and that's when I changed everything

14:56

I do as a therapist . I was like , okay

14:58

, we have to work with energy in our bodies

15:01

. We can work with a

15:03

dream , we can work with the activation

15:05

of someone cutting me off in traffic , whatever

15:07

it is , just whatever the fear

15:10

. So if you have ancestral

15:12

healing or you have some kind of healing

15:14

, we all do and

15:17

I still have , obviously healing , we

15:19

all do . We're here . But in that experience

15:21

you asked about my mother that

15:24

feels complete , which

15:26

I had done all of this work in grief

15:28

, done all this training and expert in grief

15:30

and loss . I worked in death and dying for years

15:32

and it was the story is always

15:35

you're never done with grieving

15:37

. I didn't have that experience

15:39

unexpectedly . I totally

15:41

healed . That it was really

15:43

surprising and shocking and I'm

15:46

amazed now would I love for my

15:48

mother to be here . And

15:51

shocking and I'm amazed Now , would I love for my mother to be here . Sure , is she in physical form

15:53

, but she's not . She's gone . And I told you this story before that

15:56

I was listening to a meditation . Many

15:58

, many , many years later . It

16:01

was guided by you and you

16:03

said what are you grateful for ? And

16:06

you said let the gratitude

16:08

list just arise . And

16:10

what came through ? My mother's

16:13

death . And I was kind of like , wow

16:15

, okay . And then when

16:17

I reflected on , I'm like , absolutely

16:19

, which might sound very

16:21

strange to someone

16:24

, why did that come in ? Because

16:26

her death was my initiation into

16:28

becoming a therapist , into

16:31

studying death and dying and

16:33

becoming a conduit of that

16:35

, facing fears and pain

16:37

and walking down that path , doing

16:40

shadow work myself , facing my own

16:42

shadow , et cetera , and continuing to on

16:44

a regular basis . It's never done

16:46

the work , the healing , to

16:48

on a regular basis . It's never

16:50

done the work , the healing . So I felt that contract

16:53

you

16:57

talked about contracts we have with our ancestors I felt that she

16:59

and I had a contract that was prior to this

17:01

life that said , yeah , this is our deal , I'm

17:04

going to go and you're not and I

17:06

resisted it . Oh my gosh , did I resist

17:08

that for so many , many , many years , even

17:11

though I'd done all this work . I wanted

17:13

her to still be here and I have so much empathy

17:15

for that , if that's where

17:17

anyone may be . But it

17:19

wasn't like I went into a therapy

17:21

session and I healed it . I

17:23

worked with the energy of a rat in a dream

17:26

, in a meditation

17:28

. Now why do I think that worked ? I'll tell

17:30

you . Rats represented

17:32

fear and resistance , so I call

17:34

that your Hoover Dam , this huge

17:37

amount of energy that's being held

17:39

by a dam . And because

17:41

I was able to relax around

17:43

that , that became

17:46

my healing Hoover Dam . So

17:48

it healed my heart . And I shared

17:50

this story when I was visiting

17:52

Mickey Singer Michael Singer , the

17:54

author of Untethered Soul , because all of his

17:56

teachings are about relax and

17:59

release , relax and release . And

18:01

I told him that story after

18:03

that experience back in 2015 , when

18:05

I decided to get on an airplane after

18:08

that trip and go and hang

18:10

out at his temple of the universe so

18:12

that I could start to fully integrate

18:15

that type of work into the

18:17

therapeutic process . That's when

18:19

I said mindfulness is the

18:21

bullet train to freedom , because if

18:23

you're working with the activation , whether

18:26

it's a rat , traffic or whatever

18:28

it may be . Your ancestors , the

18:31

things that we suddenly become aware

18:33

of from our ancestors that upset us

18:35

. You are here now . You

18:38

can become the best version of that

18:40

ancestry . Right , you

18:42

have the opportunity to step into power

18:45

. You have the opportunity to make fear

18:47

your freedom and pain your power . So

18:50

I think that's the opportunity we all have , and

18:52

there are a multitude of ways to find

18:54

that healing for yourself .

18:57

What is that first step ? You and

18:59

I have very unique relationships

19:01

with our dead mothers , but

19:04

I know so many people who

19:06

suffer . There were words that needed

19:08

to be said and

19:11

there were conversations that didn't

19:13

happen , and there

19:15

were moments that

19:18

something should have happened or transpired

19:20

or the relationship should have taken a certain

19:22

turn . So what

19:24

is that person's first step in

19:26

their path ?

19:28

That's part of the process . I felt all

19:30

of those things . I totally relate

19:33

to every single one of those thoughts

19:35

and at a certain

19:37

point I released

19:39

that . So something that you could

19:41

practice or try . If you want

19:44

to deal with this in a backdoor way , like

19:46

I did , I didn't realize it . If you

19:48

feel like gosh , I've done so much work , that's where I was , I

19:50

did so much work on it . And when

19:53

I've worked with clients groups , I

19:55

say what disgusts you ? We've

19:57

talked about this in the shadow and the light . Of course it's

19:59

about shadows . What animal

20:01

insect grosses you out ? Disgusts

20:04

you ? Use that like the rat . Maybe

20:06

it's spiders or

20:09

maggots . You can put that

20:11

on your altar , you can

20:13

light a candle next to it . You can work

20:15

with it in meditation , like I did . You

20:18

can relax with it . You can start to

20:20

honor , revere this

20:23

energy and see what happens

20:25

. That's one thing you could do

20:27

. What have you done

20:29

? What's some steps you've taken with

20:32

your loss and your ancestral

20:34

healing ?

20:35

Well , interestingly enough , I never

20:38

had that relationship with my

20:40

mother of the loss . So

20:43

we had a very , very unique kind

20:45

of relationship . But you

20:48

know , my mother was diagnosed with

20:50

breast cancer . As her original diagnosis

20:53

she had done chemo , she had

20:55

also had a double mastectomy and

20:57

then she went into remission

21:00

and then her doctor

21:02

said you know , looks like your

21:04

blood count is really , really down . You

21:06

need a transfusion , because that'll change

21:09

everything , that'll strengthen you . You've gotten

21:11

weakened from the chemo and all this other stuff . You

21:13

look a little anemic here . So she got

21:16

a transfusion and this

21:18

was right at the beginning of

21:20

the AIDS epidemic in New York and

21:23

they weren't screening blood for AIDS at the

21:25

time . So she had a transfusion

21:27

of AIDS blood and

21:30

just within a couple of weeks she was dead

21:32

. So during those couple of weeks

21:34

was when I had these

21:37

really really deep psychic

21:41

encounters with her and my mother was the

21:43

one who , I think when I came out of the womb she

21:45

was like , okay , we got the Ouija board . Oh

21:48

, wow , she was having her palms red . There

21:50

was always some cooped out seance

21:53

kind of thing going on . So early

21:55

in my upbringing this was all

21:57

considered very , very normal . We were all

21:59

kooky and I knew it , but it

22:01

was normal . And so

22:03

in that very , very short

22:06

, several weeks where my

22:08

mother was slowly leaving her physical

22:10

body , there was

22:12

just this weird , energetic , deep

22:15

connection . One of my favorite

22:17

movies on the planet is Cloud Atlas Tom

22:20

Hanks , halle Berry , hugh Grant . It's three

22:22

and a half hours long and it spans

22:24

thousands of years and it's people who

22:27

are in these deep relationships and then

22:29

one of them is going to die or

22:31

move on or whatever . And who

22:33

knows , 100 years , 200 , 500 years

22:35

later , they're together in

22:37

very , very different roles . They don't even know

22:39

it . So when you said you have like this contract

22:42

with your mother , I think about this concept

22:44

that perhaps I had a contract

22:46

with my mother as well in a previous

22:48

life . One of us said , oh , I

22:51

want to spend eternity with you

22:53

because I love hanging out and being with

22:55

you . And the other

22:57

person said , okay , that'll

23:00

happen , but not now . Now

23:03

is not the time for the extra 20 years

23:05

. Now is not the time , since

23:08

, since we had our mothers up

23:10

to our teens perhaps

23:12

there was like a . We got like a 20 year

23:14

extension of the previous relationship

23:17

. Yeah , and then that's

23:19

all we got . Who knows , in a previous life

23:22

. Imagine if you and your mother

23:24

, you had a different relationship . Who knows

23:26

? You know , one of you was a grandchild and

23:28

the other one was a grandfather or whatever

23:30

. And you said , oh just if

23:32

, if I could just have 20

23:35

more years with you , it

23:37

would be the most amazing . And then you

23:39

know one of you dies and then the

23:42

other person's born and you get those

23:44

20 years like we don't know

23:47

, so beyond , yeah , they call it like

23:49

soul family , soul tribe

23:51

.

23:52

I actually just connected with this

23:54

amazing couple in England through

23:57

the Monroe Institute who I'm doing

23:59

work with . They do work with them

24:01

too , and I met them for the first

24:03

time but I'm like it's nice to see you again

24:05

. I've missed you . We've been in another

24:07

life together . It was one of those experiences . I feel exactly the same way . You again , I've missed you . We've been in another life

24:09

together . It was one of those experiences . I feel exactly the same way about

24:11

you . I mean , our whole golden thread

24:14

thing is definitely

24:16

and we keep finding

24:18

more and more winks from the universe

24:21

that continue . Was

24:28

that another wink ?

24:31

That's pretty exciting right .

24:33

Oh my gosh , I guess that was the universe

24:35

saying wink

24:38

from the universe . Okay , just in

24:40

case .

24:40

Wait , looking for a sign . We just gave

24:42

it to you right now because we just had it right now the mothers

24:45

are here .

24:46

Okay , wow , that was wild

24:48

. That's never happened in all the episodes

24:50

we have recorded . Okay

24:52

, another wink , there we go . Okay

24:55

, so cool , everyone witnessed

24:57

that , yeah . So you

24:59

know what it made me think of this book

25:01

. When I was in graduate school , they

25:04

asked us to write a paper on

25:07

a children's book that we loved

25:09

, and the one that I picked is called the Little

25:11

Soul in the Sun by Neil Donald Walsh

25:13

, and I love it

25:15

. It's about souls on

25:17

the other side and how they

25:20

come together before they go

25:22

into a life , and they're all

25:24

like in the light . And one soul

25:26

says I want to know what it is to forgive

25:28

. I want to know what forgiveness

25:30

is , because in the light they only know the

25:32

light . They don't know about

25:35

pain , they don't know about

25:37

shadow . And so one

25:39

soul says I want to know what it means to forgive . And

25:42

so another soul runs up to that soul

25:44

and says well , I'll help you , I'll help

25:46

you learn how to forgive . Okay

25:48

, great . So they make a contract , and then it

25:51

says just remember , you're

25:53

going to forget , you're

25:55

going to forget that we made this contract

25:57

Basically that I'm going to hurt

26:00

you in some form or fashion . I'm

26:02

going to leave or I'm going to do some kind of

26:04

betrayal , but that's

26:06

the contract we're making , and so

26:08

it's an amazing book .

26:11

But wait , wait , wait , wait , wait . Maybe

26:15

forgiving isn't so important

26:17

to me .

26:19

Right , right . So the soul

26:22

to the other soul is saying this

26:24

is not going to be so easy , but

26:26

they can't understand that in the light . And then you

26:28

know , you come here , we're here on the earth and

26:31

we all know how hard it is to forgive at times

26:33

when someone has hurt us . It is to forgive at times

26:35

when someone has hurt us and

26:37

if you've been able to move beyond that

26:39

and

26:44

we are still all working on that in many ways . But there are some areas in this particular

26:46

episode . I'm talking about my mother . That's

26:49

one area where I felt like I was . I

26:51

struggled , I struggled , I struggled . I was angry

26:53

, I felt abandoned

26:55

. I had so many issues of

26:58

the ways in which I resisted it , even

27:01

when I felt like I'd let go , but I got

27:03

there in a way that I didn't think I would

27:05

. So these are incredibly

27:08

powerful opportunities

27:10

we have to heal . What

27:12

has helped you .

27:14

Well , there was a particular touchstone

27:16

that I had with my mother and

27:19

I don't know . Shortly before she

27:21

died she had given

27:24

me a copy of the

27:26

Odyssey as a gift with

27:28

and she inscribed it to me , to

27:31

my Ulysses . Ulysses is like

27:33

the classic hero's journey kind

27:35

of thing . We know Ulysses headed

27:38

off to fight a war and

27:40

then fought a 10-year war

27:42

and when the war was over classic

27:44

hero's journey instead of just coming

27:46

back then it took him 10

27:49

years to get back home

27:52

. Like when we all go off on

27:54

a journey of whatever healing

27:56

, enlightenment adventure

27:59

there's the departure , there's

28:01

, as Joseph Gemma would say

28:03

, there's the initiation and

28:05

then there's the return . So

28:08

there was almost like a wink-wink between

28:10

us that life contains

28:12

all the peaks and valleys , life

28:17

contains all the trials and tribulations , life contains all

28:19

the shit and the manna from

28:21

heaven . You know all the yin

28:23

and yang of all things . And

28:26

so I keep that book in

28:28

rotation . And even in

28:30

college my final dissertation

28:33

was on James

28:35

Joyce's Ulysses . My

28:40

final dissertation was on James Joyce's Ulysses , so that like I've woven

28:42

that story and those people and that aspect , and so through

28:44

the literature every time I'm really

28:47

thinking about any hero's journey

28:49

, my mom's with me , so

28:51

my mother's here right now and she has

28:54

been- .

28:54

Well , she just beeped in to the podcast by

28:57

the way .

28:58

So I have always felt that she

29:00

has been with

29:02

me in every single moment

29:04

, all of my most embarrassing situations

29:07

, all of the moments where I wish no

29:09

one had seen me , all

29:11

of my great triumphs in

29:14

my life , my highlights and my lowlights

29:16

. Keeping that soul connection

29:19

has just been , I don't want to say

29:21

, effortless . It's not actually something

29:23

I think about when I think of my mother

29:26

. She's there when I

29:28

suddenly go like I wonder if , of course

29:30

and

29:34

that's my orientation to the divine also I feel that I'm always in that

29:36

connection . Communion , communion , communion

29:38

. Right , it's not connection , because that implies

29:41

two separate beings being together

29:43

. Communion is the

29:45

oneness . So I believe my mother

29:47

is embedded here , I believe these words

29:49

are being co-conjured by

29:51

my mother and I think it's important . You know

29:54

that word , you just used the communion of

29:56

it . I don't see it as like I'm

29:58

here and she's in another place . I

30:01

don't see that . You know , I can imagine

30:03

that right now , of course , but

30:05

I see it as a deeper oneness . I see

30:07

it as yoga , union , communion

30:09

.

30:10

This couple that I was mentioning who

30:13

they do this incredible work called Zach's

30:15

house . Their son died and we were

30:17

talking about death and people who

30:19

struggle with death , and they are

30:21

in a similar place where they have

30:23

healed that and

30:26

they try to help people who've

30:28

lost children , come into contact

30:30

, have personal experience with their loved

30:33

one who passed and

30:35

they said we feel more connected . He's

30:39

always with us and , just like you said , your mother's always with you and

30:41

I feel that as well . I know that many

30:44

people here may not feel that , but I think

30:46

this is an opportunity for maybe

30:48

people to open the door to that if

30:50

they would like .

30:52

I believe it's a mindset and

30:55

it can't be proven or disproven

30:57

.

30:57

I believe it's a mindset and it can't be proven or disproven

30:59

. Well , it actually can be . It can be that Zach's

31:01

house is proving this through lots of

31:03

research , but that's a whole other story

31:05

. Well , tell a little bit more . Then

31:07

they're doing communications

31:10

with the other side

31:13

. I guess you could say or spirit , other

31:16

side . I guess you could say or spirit

31:18

. They have video , high technical equipment

31:20

, video sound , so

31:23

it's pretty amazing .

31:26

Yeah , yeah , that's way , way beyond

31:28

my clearance

31:30

. Yeah , I've never doubted

31:32

it . So I would say if someone is

31:34

grieving the loss of a parent

31:37

, a child , a sibling , a

31:47

spouse , an animal , some being that has touched your heart , I would say spend that

31:49

time that Elizabeth talked about in deep meditation . Allow nature to

31:51

remind you of your

31:53

connection to all things that

31:56

exist , those things that have existed

31:58

in the past and exist in the future

32:00

, and remember the vibration of

32:03

the mantra Aum

32:05

, spelled often A-U-M

32:07

, a-u-m and spelled O-M

32:10

. Aum contains every

32:12

vibration that has ever existed and

32:15

every vibration that will ever

32:18

exist , and I believe

32:20

, at the heart of all of our deep

32:22

relationships there's that essence

32:24

of a vibration that

32:27

encompasses the entire relationship

32:30

, including the ancestral things

32:32

that happened before and things

32:35

that are happening now and into

32:37

the future . It's almost like quantum theory

32:39

and quantum healing , and

32:41

so maybe there's some

32:44

phrase or mantra that you like to

32:46

use , maybe it's an expression

32:48

or an attitude or

32:50

just an energy that this being

32:52

in your life who

32:55

is no longer here in physical form , form

32:57

that you can reconjure up , because

33:00

it's given me great solace

33:02

and great peace , and I

33:04

believe that we can , through meditation , through

33:06

dreaming , through spending time in nature

33:09

. Through the universal

33:11

connections in our lives , we

33:13

can conjure them

33:15

more deeply into our lives .

33:17

And communicate . Do

33:20

you ever communicate

33:22

with ?

33:23

Well , I didn't before this conversation

33:26

.

33:26

Before the dinging in .

33:28

Yes , but I have said other times give

33:30

me a sign for this , give me a sign for that , or

33:33

I'm thinking about this . What do you think

33:35

? And there aren't words . If

33:37

you've read any of my books , you know that I've had lots of conversations

33:40

with people where both mouths

33:42

are closed and this massive amount of

33:44

information going back and forth . Perhaps

33:46

they're words . They're definitely sentiments

33:49

and feelings and expressions

33:51

.

33:51

So yeah , I think calling

33:53

it in and communicating is a powerful

33:55

thing to do , whether you write

33:57

it in your journal , I like to

34:00

do it when I'm walking or running . I go on

34:02

runs and I , kind of , you

34:04

know , sometimes feel called to communicate

34:06

, whether it's my mother or whatever . I

34:09

think that that's

34:13

in finding ways to connect

34:16

. Why do I think nature

34:18

is a wonderful way ? Because you're

34:20

more in your peace

34:22

state , or at least I am more

34:24

connected to your true nature . Come

34:38

, come , like I need to hear you , I need to see you , that sort of thing . I think that that wanting

34:40

it didn't make sense to me , that she came to me because she did come to me

34:42

in many ways later , but

34:45

she didn't come to me in those times or I wasn't

34:47

available to it . Maybe

34:50

she was there but I wasn't available to

34:52

it . And when I was able to release

34:54

that , I was more available and

34:56

could see , hear and feel all those

34:58

ways in which she was present

35:00

.

35:01

I'll put you on the spot here . Maybe you could just guide

35:04

our listeners right

35:06

now into some

35:08

type of state to help

35:11

them become a little

35:13

more available to moments

35:15

like this .

35:16

Okay , allow

35:18

yourself to get into a space

35:20

, a place where you feel really

35:22

comfortable . If you're driving

35:24

, you can just pause and come back to this

35:26

or pull over or

35:28

find a place I

35:35

personally like to be , you

35:37

know , in the comfort of my own room or

35:39

bed or somewhere really cozy and

35:44

just allow yourself to close your eyes , maybe

35:58

placing one hand on your heart and maybe one on your belly , finding a resting space for

36:00

that , feeling the movement of your breath , the aliveness of

36:02

your current being , the

36:06

tapestry of our soul

36:08

, family , runs through you . So

36:13

there's a thread and

36:16

right now , with one hand on your heart

36:18

and one hand

36:21

on your belly , you are in touch with the thread

36:23

that is your current

36:25

life . Just

36:30

feel that movement , that

36:32

feeling of that thread

36:34

that runs through you . Feeling

36:41

of that thread that runs through you , allowing the breath to be like a gentle massage

36:43

upon that thread , allowing any of the coarse , rough

36:47

edges to just come

36:49

in and be softened by

36:52

the breath , by

37:03

the breath , and

37:11

allowing yourself just to relax a little bit more , 5%

37:13

more , allowing the bed or chair to just take you in a bit

37:15

more . To just

37:21

take you in a bit more as

37:25

you breathe into your lungs , inviting

37:32

any grief or grievance to come forward

37:34

or

37:37

to be met , or

37:42

anything that you're wanting to

37:44

release into

37:47

the thread and allowing

37:49

that thread to release

37:52

down what no longer serves

37:54

this life . And

38:04

if you have anyone

38:07

or anything that you're wanting to come into

38:09

contact with , just

38:14

visualizing that

38:16

person or even naming

38:18

out loud , I give

38:20

myself permission to be in

38:22

communion , in contact

38:25

, available

38:27

to whatever

38:30

it may be , whoever it may be , and

38:41

just allowing yourself

38:44

to experience any exchange , any

38:46

feeling

38:50

, seeing , hearing experience

38:52

you may have . You

39:04

may have , whether that just be bathing in this energy

39:08

or asking questions

39:12

, and , as we release any

39:15

resistance , also

39:18

allowing

39:20

light to fill our being

39:22

, calling

39:34

in light as a support . And

39:42

you can always extend this

39:45

time of conversation by pressing pause

39:47

and just remembering to always call

39:50

in light the highest vibrations

39:52

of light from

40:00

the top of the head into your being , into your

40:02

heart , into all the areas of the heart , and

40:04

to let that thread that runs through

40:06

you be illuminated by

40:08

the light . Any

40:27

fragments of the thread can be healed , honored , learned

40:29

from being

40:39

open to the wisdom of this experience as you move on from this time within

40:41

, taking your time to come into a closure

40:44

of it , maybe taking your hands in prayer

40:47

position , just

40:54

honoring your heart , honoring the experience

40:56

, honoring

40:59

the light and honoring the shadow , it's

41:09

all one and

41:12

taking a nice deep breath in and out , releasing

41:15

that and coming back , feeling

41:20

your feet , your hands , your heart , the sensation of the body remembering

41:23

you are a thread in the fabric of the larger tapestry of your ancestral

41:26

lineage and

41:28

you get to choose how you weave , moving

41:31

forward .

41:37

Wow , so intense , so

41:40

intense . So

41:43

be gentle with yourself and , as

41:45

Elizabeth suggested , always feel

41:47

free to pause and stay in this

41:49

space . This

41:52

is a way , certainly for us to dance

41:55

in the shadow and the light of

41:58

each moment and if

42:01

you are suffering

42:04

a loss , make

42:07

sure that you reach out to somebody . There's

42:10

no need ever for you to

42:12

do anything alone

42:14

. You're not alone , and

42:16

I'd encourage you to stay

42:18

connected with us , all the various

42:20

ways that you can be connected

42:22

to us , whether that's meditating

42:25

with us , whether that's joining

42:28

our various communities or getting

42:31

certified as a meditation teacher

42:33

, or we're just hanging out here

42:35

on the shadow and the light . Sometimes

42:38

we go wide , sometimes we go deep

42:41

on this podcast , but I

42:43

think this is one of those where we did

42:45

both . Thank you for joining

42:47

us . Thank you so much , elizabeth Deep

42:52

. My name is David G and

42:54

on behalf of my co-host , elizabeth Winkler

42:56

. My name is David G and on behalf of my co-host , elizabeth Winkler . You've been listening to

42:58

the Shadow and the Light

43:01

podcast .

43:20

We'll see you on the next episode , in pathways of the heart

43:22

and that secret place . That is where

43:24

I find my start . The light Is here

43:27

to remove all my fears and to bring new

43:29

signs . The

43:34

light Is

43:36

a cloud that will go to the deep to

43:38

take me to you . The

43:41

light , the

43:43

shadow and the light . There's

43:45

hope out in bright light . You

43:47

hold it as you're holding me

43:50

, but don't rush past this moment

43:52

. The darkness can become

43:54

a friend . Love will come

43:56

by your side and you'll shine

43:58

brighter than a million

44:01

suns A million suns . You went through hell

44:03

, but now you're in the

44:06

light . It is here to remove

44:08

all your fears and to bring new sight

44:10

. The light , the

44:15

light . It is not able to go to the deep . The light , the light In

44:17

the night . It will go to the deep to

44:19

take you to new heights

44:22

, to the light , the shadow

44:24

. And the light has come because

44:27

it loves us . The light has come because

44:29

it loves us . The light has come

44:31

to set us free . The light has come to set

44:34

us free . The shadow comes because it loves

44:36

us . The shadow comes because it loves us . The

44:39

shadow comes because it loves us . The shadow comes

44:41

to set us free . The

44:48

light is here to remove all our

44:50

fears and to bring new life

44:53

. The light , the light

44:56

. It's

44:58

a light that will go on to the deep , to

45:01

take us to new heights

45:03

, to

45:06

the shadow and the light .