0:16

And growing a small business. The

0:18

small business show is the official podcast

0:20

of Garuda promo and branding solutions.

0:27

Hello everyone, you're listening to the small

0:29

business show. My name is Sway Air Ho. You

0:31

can also call me the promo guy. My

0:33

guest today is Tanya Brody. She's an email

0:36

marketing connection academy. She is

0:38

a full stack direct response copywriter

0:40

and an email marketing consultant. She

0:43

worked with numerous companies to generate new

0:45

leads, grow their email list and

0:47

turn new subscriber into customer.

0:49

Currently in past clients includes

0:51

humanitarian teams, Mary Swift,

0:54

international lead pages and more.

0:56

Tyre firmly believed that every business needs

0:58

an email list and should be emailing

1:01

that list regularly to build a relationship

1:03

with email subscribers and nurture them

1:06

along the path to become happy,

1:08

paying, loyal customer. Welcome to

1:10

the show Tanya. Thank you so much

1:12

swire. It's a pleasure to be here. I

1:14

think the last sentence of

1:16

your bio is perfect.

1:19

Makes them happy, paying and loyal customer.

1:21

So. But before we dive into that,

1:23

I'd love to find out more about your

1:26

work and how did you get to become

1:28

a copywriter and then email marketing

1:30

consultants? Sure. So before

1:33

I was a copywriter, I was actually

1:35

a touring celtic musician.

1:38

I traveled all over the country playing

1:41

celtic music with a partner. And

1:43

I mean like, we literally did everything from

1:47

like big irish festivals and

1:49

scottish games to like public libraries.

1:52

And a lot of what I did

1:54

in that business was I ran

1:57

our marketing and

1:59

we started an email list. And

2:02

my very first email list was

2:04

collected on a piece of paper,

2:06

on a clipboard at all

2:08

of our shows. And I had to

2:10

then sit down and try and

2:13

translate people's bad handwriting

2:15

and make sure I actually got their email addresses

2:18

right as I

2:20

manually entered all of those email

2:22

addresses after every show. So

2:24

that's actually where I got started with email

2:27

marketing is just, you know, doing it for

2:29

my own business. When I was a musician

2:32

and I sent out a

2:34

monthly newsletter, I always made sure

2:36

I emailed all of the people in

2:38

the area we were coming to, who were on

2:40

our list to let them know that we were going to be there

2:43

and to bring their friends so that

2:45

we always had people at our shows.

2:47

So that is actually how I got started

2:50

with email marketing, was just doing it for

2:52

my own business and I saw the

2:54

value of it. I'm like, why would you not

2:57

do this? Why would you not stay

2:59

in touch with your, you

3:01

know, your, your, your audience, your people,

3:04

to let them know what's going on? It just made perfect

3:06

sense, especially as a musician

3:08

who needs an audience, who needs people

3:10

to buy their cds and their t shirts

3:13

and come and support them and,

3:15

you know, all of that stuff. So

3:17

after I was a professional musician,

3:20

I'd already been doing all this marketing, so

3:22

copywriting was the next logical step.

3:24

I already had a degree in creative writing and theater.

3:26

I may as well put that to good use. So

3:29

I became a full time, full

3:31

stack, direct response copywriter.

3:34

And email marketing just felt like the natural

3:36

thing to me. I'd been, you know, like I said, I'd

3:38

already been doing it and

3:40

I kind of love it. And I ended up going to work

3:43

for a company called leadpages, which you mentioned

3:45

earlier. And their big

3:47

thing is creating

3:49

that email list. And

3:52

well, once you have that email list,

3:54

you have to keep emailing people

3:56

so they don't forget who you

3:59

are because otherwise,

4:01

you know, you'll get someone on their list, on your

4:03

list and you'll like, yeah, I've got someone on your list, on

4:05

my list. But if you never actually email

4:08

them when you

4:10

have that sale and you're ready to

4:12

try and get them to buy, if you

4:15

haven't given them any information about you, they're

4:17

going to look at their inbox and go, who

4:19

is this person and why are they in my inbox? And

4:21

click delete. Or worse yet,

4:23

click spam. And that's the

4:25

last thing that you want. So that

4:27

is how I got to where I am today.

4:30

Thank you for sharing, Ty. That's a, you

4:32

know, interesting story is how we

4:34

become what we doing right now

4:37

because of our past experience, you know, so,

4:39

you know, we didn't change to be a certain

4:41

profession, but then, you know, along the path,

4:43

you know, we like something that we

4:45

have encountered and that's, that

4:48

becomes what we do. Yeah. And it's,

4:50

it's funny, the weird path that life

4:52

takes us on. Like I said, you know, I, I

4:55

have a degree in creative writing and theater. I graduated

4:57

from college, qualified to run

4:59

a small theater company and wash dishes.

5:02

That's, you know, seriously.

5:04

But yet here I am running a,

5:06

well, running a small company, but

5:09

it's, you know, a totally different kind of small

5:11

company. I am serving business owners

5:13

and helping all of you make

5:16

your email marketing better because it's

5:18

such a great channel

5:20

for marketing. Let's

5:22

get started. I'm wondering myself

5:24

too. So how do you build that

5:27

list? It seems like if I

5:29

am a retail company, already

5:31

have my brand awareness, it will be

5:33

easier. If I'm a celebrity, I'll be easier.

5:36

But for all of us out there, small business,

5:38

maybe we are in the commodity

5:40

industry, maybe we're just starting out. So

5:43

how do we build that list?

5:45

So there are two ways to do it.

5:47

The first one is actually, believe

5:50

it or not, simpler than you think it is,

5:52

which is to make a list of all of the people,

5:54

you know, who you think might be interested in receiving your

5:57

emails. And I mean, like, actually, no. Personally,

5:59

you make that list and you

6:01

start emailing them and you say, I am doing

6:03

this thing. If you

6:06

want to stay on this list, tell

6:08

me. And then you start emailing them.

6:10

One of the things that I did when I wasn't

6:13

touring full time, I was going

6:15

through acupuncture treatment,

6:17

and it was a really new weird thing for

6:20

me. And so I just started writing about it and emailing

6:22

it to a bunch of friends. It's

6:24

like, this was like one of my first,

6:27

you know, built email lists that

6:29

had nothing to do with music, but, and it

6:31

like, there was no advertisement. It was literally,

6:34

this was my experience at the action punk

6:36

today. But the point

6:39

being, it's, you're

6:41

creating your own community, so,

6:44

you know, you can start there, but what

6:46

you want to be doing is reaching beyond those

6:48

people. You want to be putting

6:51

out what is referred to as a lead magnet,

6:53

opt in bribe, or freebie

6:56

giveaway. That thing that you go

6:58

to a company's website and they're like, download our

7:00

coupon, or, you know,

7:02

download this free report or get this

7:04

free checklist, whatever that is.

7:07

And you want to set one of those up

7:09

and then have a way for people to give

7:11

you their email address in exchange

7:14

for that thing. If you go

7:16

to my website, you will see a big pop up

7:18

for my list of 30 subject

7:20

lines that helps, that keep

7:22

your subscribers opening and reading every

7:24

email. And what that is, is literally

7:27

it's 30 subject lines with writing

7:29

prompts that you can use to

7:31

write your own emails. Because like I said, you

7:33

gotta keep writing those nurture emails so people

7:35

remember who you are. So

7:38

you want something like that that's relevant to

7:40

your business. So

7:42

you're the promo guy. So for you,

7:44

it would be something like ten most

7:46

popular promo items

7:49

for your business to share with your customers.

7:52

Just as a random example.

7:54

Yeah, that will bring me to my next

7:57

question. And it's funny that you

7:59

mentioned me. Like, I do that,

8:01

but sometimes I, I'm having a

8:03

hard time. Not a hard time. Like, I have

8:05

to think, like, I always talk about like,

8:07

ten best things of something,

8:09

right? Next time I'll do ten

8:11

best things of something again. Like,

8:14

for me, it's

8:16

so I've been writing that

8:18

for a long time. But then for, obviously, for

8:21

subscriber or for people who haven't

8:23

read that piece, it's new to them. So

8:25

how would you suggest that we engage

8:27

ourselves? Right? If we write the same thing

8:30

over and over again, it gets to us.

8:32

Like, do you feel that way? I'm

8:34

a copywriter. I always

8:36

feel that way. And

8:39

that's, that is one of the things. And

8:41

here's a really important thing to remember

8:43

as an expert in any given field,

8:46

whether you are a copywriter or a musician

8:49

or someone who specializes in

8:51

promo materials, you

8:54

know your business, you know everything

8:56

about it. And to you, it's normal,

8:59

right? So to

9:02

someone who's never seen it before, never dealt

9:04

with it before, or is

9:07

trying to learn more about it, it's

9:09

new and exciting. So if you come

9:11

at whatever it is you're writing about, whatever

9:13

it is you're promoting from a beginner's

9:15

mindset, that whole idea

9:18

that you've never dealt with this before, what

9:20

can you learn from it? Even you,

9:22

as the expert will find things that you can learn

9:24

with the beginner's mindset. But

9:26

think about it from the perspective of someone

9:29

who has never given

9:31

away a promotional item before. It's

9:34

like, okay, so what should

9:36

that even be? You know,

9:38

when I was a musician, we had a really hard time

9:41

figuring out that what that was, it ended up being stickers

9:43

with our logo. That was easy,

9:46

you know, so. But

9:50

what if I wanted to do something different? What else

9:52

could I do? What else would be meaningful,

9:55

you know, besides my cds and t shirts

9:58

to my audience? So

10:00

I would have no idea what

10:02

to start with after stickers, because stickers

10:04

are easy. Would you suggest to, like,

10:07

ask yourself, subscriber, like, you know,

10:09

do you, what do you, what question do

10:11

you guys have for us? Like, we could, you

10:13

know, touch on that, if that's your interest. Yeah.

10:16

And that is actually one of the best ways to

10:18

get fodder for your emails, by the way, is to

10:20

ask your subscribers. Think about the questions

10:23

that your customers ask you. That's

10:26

an email topic. They're just total

10:28

aside, but this is actually a thing about SEO, but

10:30

it's still applicable to email. There

10:32

was a pool company, I think, in

10:34

Maryland, that managed to get

10:37

the top spot for

10:40

pools service companies

10:42

nationwide just by writing blog

10:44

posts that answered their customers

10:48

questions. Yeah. Because

10:50

that's stuff people want to know.

10:52

So if you get someone on your email list

10:54

and they're a total newbie to copywriting,

10:58

to email marketing, to promotional

11:00

materials, you want to give them that

11:03

information so that

11:05

they have the same information you do

11:07

and can do something with it for their business,

11:10

for their lives, whatever that may

11:12

be. Basically, someone joins

11:14

your email list because they're interested

11:17

in what it is you have to offer. When someone downloads

11:19

that lead magnet, they're raising their hand going, yes,

11:21

I am interested. This, yes,

11:24

this looks totally cool to me. This

11:26

may solve my problem. And

11:30

my favorite description. Anyone's

11:32

ideal customer is at

11:35

some point, that is the person that

11:37

is sitting in front of their computer in

11:39

the middle of the night in their pajamas because

11:42

they can't sleep, because this

11:44

problem, whatever that problem

11:46

may be, is keeping them

11:48

up at night. So that

11:51

is, and when I'm a copywriter, that

11:53

is the person I am speaking to.

11:55

What is the problem that is keeping you up

11:57

at night? What is the thing that has brought you

11:59

to your computer? To read

12:01

my webpage, my email, my

12:04

whatever, my blog post

12:06

in the middle of the night? How can

12:08

I solve that problem? How can I serve you

12:11

and give you the information you need

12:14

to make an informed decision? Email

12:16

is one of the best ways to do that.

12:19

And here's why. Social media

12:21

is great. It's wonderful. It's

12:24

a really good way of bringing people into

12:26

our world. But

12:30

the big problem with social media is it's

12:32

so noisy. There's so

12:34

many other distractions out there. I

12:36

like to compare email marketing and

12:38

social media to social media is like

12:40

being in the middle of a crowded dance floor

12:43

at a big party and

12:45

trying to have a conversation with

12:47

someone with all of thumping noise, all

12:49

the flashing bodies, and, you know, it's like all

12:51

of this stuff going on around you and like, you're

12:53

like, what did you say?

12:57

And an email

12:59

is more like someone inviting

13:02

you into their living room to have

13:04

a conversation, to actually like, just sit

13:06

down, have a cup of tea and a chat. You

13:08

have their undivided attention. They're

13:10

interested in what you have to say because they've said, yes,

13:13

I want to receive your emails.

13:15

I want you to show up in my inbox

13:18

and give me this information. So

13:21

it's, it's a huge difference. And

13:24

that's why I say, everyone needs an email

13:26

list and

13:28

so you can stay in touch with those, those

13:30

customers. Now here's a really important

13:33

little factoid. Depending on your

13:35

channel and your, your, your

13:37

niche, you

13:40

will get one to ten

13:43

or one in 100 people

13:45

who buy on that first touch

13:48

from you, the person who sees that Facebook

13:50

ad or comes to your website, and you're like, yes, that's

13:52

what I need right there. What

13:54

about you? If it happened,

13:57

you got lucky. Yeah, you got lucky.

13:59

What about all of those other people?

14:02

That's where you're leaving money on the table and that's

14:05

where your email list comes in. Because

14:08

maybe let's say

14:10

you got those ten people that one person buys,

14:12

but those other nine say, well,

14:15

I'm really interested, but I don't have enough information yet.

14:17

Or I'm really interested, but

14:20

I'm just not quite sure yet. So

14:22

when you give them that lead magnet, that thing that

14:24

gives them more information and

14:27

you start emailing them, you build

14:29

trust, you build your expertise

14:32

and you're building a relationship with them.

14:35

You're giving them something and

14:37

in exchange they will want to give you

14:40

their business, which

14:43

is huge. And

14:46

just doing that is going to result

14:48

in more purchases,

14:50

which is the whole point of having an email list

14:53

is to get those further purchases

14:56

because maybe you might not get all

14:58

nine of those people, but

15:01

even if you get three of them, that's

15:03

still three more new customers

15:06

that you didn't then have to go pay

15:08

social media ads or pay per

15:10

click ads or whatever

15:12

advertising forum you're using because

15:15

they already came to you. They

15:17

are a captive audience, if you will.

15:20

Well, Tanya, I know we talked a lot about,

15:23

you talk a lot about engaging

15:25

with your email list subscriber

15:28

and I know the value proposition is there,

15:30

right. You have to understand what

15:33

their concerns about, not what you want

15:35

to do. Like, I know we all want to sell our

15:37

product and services at the end, right?

15:40

That's how we keep our lights on. But

15:42

customer, they care about themselves. They

15:45

want to see what if

15:47

I do this? Can this solve my problem?

15:49

Or if I get your services,

15:52

am I able to live my life better?

15:54

So I think there's some figuring out

15:56

involved, right. To provide the right

15:58

content, other ways that you

16:01

suggest to engage with customer.

16:03

I think like with, you know, using

16:05

me as an example with promotional product, I

16:08

would almost want to do like a poll

16:10

or like a questionnaire, you know, like

16:12

pick four. Like what are you most concerned

16:14

about when you think about our industry? And

16:17

then when they pick or choose

16:19

or I can, I can actually ask my paying

16:21

customer, what do you guys care most about? And

16:23

then that's me, the promo guy. I'm

16:26

going to research and bring

16:28

you that content that you're looking for. Do you

16:30

think that might be a better approach? Like how do

16:32

we get really good feedback

16:34

to write the correct

16:37

content for our subscribers? Subscribers.

16:40

So I have what

16:42

I refer to as an email welcome sequence,

16:44

which is that first set of emails that

16:46

someone receives from me. And

16:48

in my second email, I

16:51

actually ask people, tell

16:54

me what it is about email

16:57

marketing. That is your biggest challenge

16:59

or frustration. And you can either just

17:01

respond to this email or

17:04

click right here and fill out this one

17:06

question survey. And that

17:09

I get a lot of response from that.

17:12

And it is literally, it's an open ended

17:14

question that just lets people

17:16

vent. Believe me,

17:18

there are people who vent.

17:21

And that's the most valuable information

17:24

in the world because I'm getting my

17:26

customers actual words, I'm

17:28

getting their actual concerns.

17:31

And I can then take

17:33

that information and go, oh, that's

17:36

your problem. Here's how you solve

17:38

that. And I put that out as an email

17:41

and I say, I got

17:43

a response from someone lately who

17:45

asked me this question, and

17:49

here's the answer. And here's

17:51

why this matters. And

17:54

my favorite thing in the

17:56

world to remind everybody in

17:58

business is it's not about

18:00

you, it's about your customers.

18:03

They are asking every consumer, you

18:06

and I, when we are being consumers,

18:08

ask the question, what's in

18:10

it for me?

18:12

That is the question you need to answer in

18:15

every aspect of your marketing. What's

18:17

in it for your end user? And

18:20

to quote one of my favorite copywriters, Mister

18:22

Nick Usborne, the formula

18:24

is help, help, help

18:27

sell. So the first

18:29

thing you do is you help someone.

18:32

You give them the answer to that question. Then

18:34

you help them a little bit more by

18:37

saying, okay, so now that you have

18:39

this question solved, what

18:41

about that question? What

18:43

about the next step on your journey? Then

18:46

you position your product or service

18:49

as that solution. So

18:52

it's a process. It's not a

18:54

buy my stuff, buy my stuff, buy my stuff,

18:58

which is what I see so many businesses

19:00

doing. It's

19:02

a how can I serve you? How

19:05

can I give you what you need

19:08

to solve your problem?

19:11

And here's this thing

19:13

that will help you solve this problem. Here's

19:16

the information you need to use it, to

19:19

use it most effectively in your life

19:21

and to understand how it. Will help you

19:24

as a small business professional. I think

19:26

like the most frequently asked question that

19:29

you receive, Tanya, are probably

19:31

money question, right? You know, how much does

19:33

it cost, right. To do me? And I think the second

19:36

most frequently asked question is

19:39

how long does it take? I know that

19:41

it depends question, but I'm going to

19:43

ask you anyway. Like, if

19:45

we are really serious about building

19:48

a list, engaging with a subscriber,

19:50

like how long do you think it

19:52

normally takes for us to

19:54

start seeing the result that we wanted?

19:57

Okay, so first of all, a few fascinating

19:59

statistics about email. Email marketing

20:02

has a 4000%.

20:05

Yes, that's it. 4400%.

20:07

That's the number. Return on investment. Sorry

20:09

about that. Yeah. And basically that

20:11

means for every dollar you put into your email

20:13

marketing, you can earn up to $44 back.

20:17

That's incredible. That's really

20:19

good. There is no other marketing channel that

20:21

will deliver that. Now what

20:23

that takes is getting someone onto

20:26

your list to be able to do that. So

20:28

email marketing, if you think about it, is sort of

20:30

a back end thing. It's

20:32

not flashy like Facebook ads,

20:35

you know, it's not engaging

20:37

like going out on podcasts like

20:40

we're doing right now. But what it is

20:42

is it's that that continued

20:45

relationship builder. And

20:48

when you put money into it, which, yes, does

20:50

mean setting up that email

20:52

funnel to deliver that lead magnet

20:54

and send that welcome sequence to

20:56

welcome people into your community and

20:59

to give them that first chance to buy

21:01

your product or service,

21:04

then that is going to

21:07

basically push everyone

21:09

towards making that

21:12

purchase. Now, I've had people on my email list

21:14

who buy, like within three or four

21:16

emails. I've had people

21:18

on my email list who literally

21:20

take years to buy.

21:23

And this at every single person

21:25

with an email list will tell you this, but

21:28

we're all at different places

21:30

in what's called the buyer's journey.

21:34

I'm sure you've probably heard of the, the hero's

21:36

journey, the famous Joseph Campbell

21:39

circle of how we,

21:41

how mythology evolves,

21:44

Star wars standard

21:47

hero's journey story. In fact,

21:49

George Lucas actually wrote it off of

21:52

Joseph Campbell's writings.

21:54

Now, we as customers,

21:57

each of us has a buyer's journey

22:00

where, you know, we start out on that.

22:02

I have this problem I need to solve. I have no idea

22:04

how to solve this problem. And

22:06

then, oh, there's

22:09

a thing out there that can help me solve this problem.

22:11

How do I get that thing? And

22:14

then you go in search of that

22:16

thing, and that thing helps

22:18

you have the transformation in your life.

22:21

It solves your problem. That

22:23

brings you back to the top of that cycle of

22:26

I am now the hero. I am,

22:28

I have achieved my mission. I am bringing

22:31

my adventure, my story

22:33

back to my community. Somewhere

22:36

in there is the guide,

22:39

which is a critical part of

22:41

that hero's journey. And on

22:44

your hero's journey, swire,

22:46

I am your guide.

22:49

I am not your hero. You are

22:51

the hero. Yeah, I am the guide. I

22:53

am the person who is helping you along

22:56

the way. And that's what email marketing does.

22:58

It lets you be that guide. It

23:00

lets you be that person that

23:02

someone can turn to and go, I have

23:05

no idea what to do next. And

23:07

you say, well, here's the

23:09

thing you need to know now. Go

23:11

take care of this. It

23:13

gives you that chance to be that relied

23:16

upon, trusted source

23:18

of information so that

23:20

when that person is actually ready to take that

23:22

step and by, they're

23:25

going to turn to you as

23:27

opposed to your competitors. So

23:30

it really depends, right? It depends on

23:32

all the items that we do

23:34

are easy, right? A cup of coffee or

23:36

versus, if you want to buy a house. Obviously,

23:39

that's maybe once in a lifetime

23:41

decision, but there

23:44

are people who, we are set

23:46

where we always have a brand or an

23:48

expert in mine already. If we decided

23:50

to do, uh, things in their

23:53

particular industry, this is the only company

23:55

or the only person, right.

23:57

The only coaches that we will

23:59

work with. So. And it takes time.

24:02

Then, you know, while you're talking, I'm thinking about,

24:04

you know, how do we really build trust? And then

24:06

I am trying to

24:08

remember, like, the email newsletter that I

24:10

subscribe that I'm willing to

24:12

open every single day. Sometimes

24:15

they come every day, sometimes they don't, like,

24:17

even in the professional world.

24:19

And then in my own little things that I like,

24:21

my hobbies that I will open

24:23

from a certain company right away,

24:25

you know, why is that? Why do I

24:28

do that? You know, I'm thinking about that, and

24:30

it's. It's interesting, right? Because I I

24:32

trust them, right. In their particular industry,

24:34

and that's why I do that. Versus, you

24:36

know, you could spend a lot of money buying ads,

24:39

maybe hiring influencer, try to

24:41

influence, or maybe you take out a

24:43

Super bowl ad or Oscar

24:45

ad. You know, try to have people buy. If

24:47

they don't trust you and if they don't know

24:49

about your brand, then it might not be

24:51

as effective. Then if you

24:54

see the email, you know what to

24:56

expect. And it's. It seems like the

24:58

person who's writing it understand what.

25:01

What I'm going through, so I really trust this person.

25:03

Exactly. And that's why it's actually worth

25:06

having that person's exact words,

25:08

because you can literally say those words

25:10

back to them and they're like, oh, my God,

25:12

you get me. Because when

25:15

someone says exactly what you just

25:17

said to them, you feel understood.

25:20

You know, it's like, you know, if you

25:22

swear, let's say you said, oh, my gosh, I'm having the worst

25:24

trouble with, you know, reaching out to

25:27

my customers. I

25:30

don't know how to do it. It's really confusing

25:32

me. And if I come back to you and say, swear, I

25:34

am so sorry you're having such a hard time

25:36

reaching out to your customers and getting them to

25:39

engage with you because you just don't know where to turn.

25:42

You're going to feel seen. You're going to feel heard.

25:44

You're going to feel understood. And isn't that what

25:46

we all want, right?

25:48

We all want someone to go, yes,

25:51

I get you. I hear you. And

25:54

you can totally do that with your email marketing.

25:57

You can totally do that by listening to your

25:59

customers and hearing what they

26:01

have to say and showing them

26:03

that, a, you get it and b,

26:06

you have solutions for them. And

26:09

that's going to make you that trusted expert. That's going

26:11

to make you that person that they turn to

26:13

when they're ready, whenever that is on

26:16

their hero's journey, and

26:18

they're going to come to you and say, yep, this is it. I'm

26:20

ready. I'm going to plunk down my hard earned cash.

26:22

I'm good. Everything you said, tanya,

26:25

is really good. I'm asking this question

26:28

for myself and also

26:30

for all of us out there who

26:32

aren't a writer. Like, I could talk

26:34

for a long time, as you could probably tell. You

26:36

know, I have a podcast

26:39

and I also guess on other people's podcasts

26:41

when they asked me like a bunch of promotional product questions.

26:44

But if you ask me to sit

26:46

down, write a blog post or, you know,

26:48

like you have suggested an email

26:50

newsletter, you know, I found

26:52

myself really, I'm

26:54

staring at my keyboard. I want to smash

26:56

my keyboard. I know that we have, you

26:58

know, we haven't mentioned chat GBT. Now

27:01

we're going to mention it. It's been a little

27:03

help, right? For what I do,

27:05

I can actually use that to

27:07

transcribe my guest episode

27:10

of podcast and turn it

27:12

into somehow like 60%

27:14

ish type of format, and I

27:16

will edit it so it helps me. But

27:19

really, the question is, if I'm not a writer

27:21

and I know the importance for

27:23

writing an email marketing campaign,

27:26

how do we get started? Like, what do

27:28

we write first? Oh, my

27:30

goodness. That is the problem

27:32

that everyone tells me when I say, do you have

27:34

any emails? They go, no. I

27:36

say, why not? Because I never know

27:38

what to write. And

27:41

that is a totally fair thing because

27:44

again, this comes from being too good at what we

27:46

do. You know, all this

27:48

stuff, it's normal to you. It's

27:51

boring. But remember, the

27:53

person who has no clue really

27:56

wants to know. The easy place to

27:58

start is with the really

28:00

basic stuff you know, when I

28:02

start with email marketing, when I start with

28:05

specifically writing nurture emails,

28:07

I start with, here's the

28:09

basic stuff you need to know, you

28:11

know, and a lot of it is what is we've been

28:13

talking about here on this podcast. Another

28:16

thing that you can do is you just pointed out

28:18

swire, you talk, you're really

28:20

good. You could talk about what you do until the cows

28:23

come home, right? Pick up

28:25

your phone, use the

28:27

voice memo recorder, talk,

28:31

talk into that recorder.

28:34

Stop, put it into otter

28:36

AI or chat GPT

28:38

or whatever is. Get it transcribed.

28:42

That's your email. Obviously you

28:44

want to refine it a little bit. So you're not

28:46

saying um, er, but

28:49

that's a perfectly good

28:51

way to write. And

28:53

then you basically put some sort of call to

28:56

action on it. Like read my blog

28:58

post, schedule

29:00

a call with me, what have

29:03

you, and that's a perfectly

29:05

good email. There is no

29:07

fine art, perfect structure

29:10

to email, and that's part of the beauty of

29:12

it, in my opinion. Sales

29:14

pages have a structure that you're supposed

29:17

to follow. Blog posts

29:19

have a structure that you're supposed to follow.

29:22

Emails really are more

29:24

like that conversation. They're

29:27

more personal. You are

29:29

literally coming into someone's inbox, like

29:32

I said, like inviting someone into your living room

29:34

so they don't have to follow

29:37

an absolute structure. Now,

29:39

I have one that I teach,

29:43

but you know, it's pretty much that

29:45

you need to have a subject line, an

29:48

introduction, a body and

29:50

a call to action. That's pretty

29:52

easy. Most people can do that.

29:55

So there are a lot

29:57

of different ways you can write an email.

29:59

That's why I have that 30

30:02

subject lines is because people really don't know

30:04

what to write. But all of these

30:06

subject lines are generic enough

30:08

that you can apply them to your business really

30:10

easily. There are writing prompts that

30:12

will actually help you get started.

30:15

Chat GPT is actually, this

30:17

is, in my opinion, one of the things that

30:19

AI is really, really good at is

30:22

coming up with these ideas

30:25

for you to write about. I will be

30:28

completely honest with you, I use chat

30:30

GPT all the time. I am

30:32

a firm believer in actually using

30:34

the tools. I do not let it

30:36

write my emails. I'm a professional copywriter.

30:39

I should be able to write my own emails. But

30:42

I'm happy to let it get me started.

30:46

I will then go through and make sure everything is a

30:48

correct because we all know chat

30:51

GPT is making some of this stuff up. It

30:53

doesn't understand what you do for a

30:55

living. It's not you,

30:57

it's been trained on gigabytes

31:00

and gigabytes and gigabytes of information. It's

31:02

not going to know what you specifically do.

31:04

You have to go in and make sure

31:07

that everything represents you well.

31:09

But the other thing is you want to make sure that your

31:11

personality is going to show through and

31:14

you are not a robot. Computers

31:17

do not know how to human yet. Sorry.

31:19

They just don't. So

31:22

you have to go in and

31:24

look at what was written

31:26

and then take it and put it in your own voice. But

31:29

it's going to give you great ideas, it's going to give you

31:31

great starting points, and

31:33

it's going to give you a framework that you can

31:35

use. Just like you're

31:37

not staring at that blank page anymore, which

31:40

is what most people want. So,

31:42

important point, what

31:44

you put into a writing prompt

31:46

is what you get out of a writing prompt.

31:49

So if you just say, chat

31:51

GPT, write me an email

31:54

for my customers, because

31:56

it won't know what that means. You

31:58

have to give it the information, you

32:00

know, chat GPT, write me

32:02

an email that will appeal to people who

32:04

want to use promotional items

32:07

in their business to drum up this, you know, to

32:09

attract more customers. Well,

32:11

that's it. A start. I'll

32:14

ask a lot of prompts too. Like, I think, you

32:16

know, one way it does is, you know, I could,

32:18

I'm saying it on the show. I can be mean to

32:20

it, but then it still works for me.

32:23

Right, right. I'll ask, you know,

32:25

act as if you are a marketing manager

32:27

who are going to a trade show. All

32:29

the prompts that I know customer

32:32

buy from us, what do they think about?

32:34

Like, what do they concern about?

32:36

Like, why is it that they want to

32:39

buy what we do? And then it actually

32:41

gives me sometimes a

32:43

little bit too much information. It'll give me like a

32:45

whole paragraph or points that

32:48

I should be right about. I think that's. It's

32:50

good. And, you know, I think, Tanya, you also mentioned it.

32:53

We listed the most

32:55

frequently asked question on a website.

32:57

I think a lot of website does. Like, that's like

32:59

the ten most popular question that

33:01

we have. I could actually put

33:03

that in a Gmail form in my

33:06

actual voice. Like, you know,

33:08

I come to believe that, you know, people

33:10

sometimes work with me, the

33:12

promo guy, because, like, they, like, you know,

33:15

some way that I talk. And

33:17

so maybe it will also

33:19

introduce to them what kind of

33:21

person is this promo guy? Right. I think

33:23

a lot of times, especially when we do the b

33:25

two b is not just

33:28

the product anymore. They want to see the

33:30

person that they're dealing with,

33:32

like, who is this guy? You know, who's this person?

33:34

Are we able to trust him or

33:36

her about, you know,

33:39

things that we're about to do? If you're able

33:41

to turn your personality or maybe

33:43

you unique, right, in your

33:45

email newsletter, not written by a

33:47

robot, then maybe you could attract

33:50

some of the people that are connected to you. Obviously

33:52

there are those who are maybe turn

33:54

away by your certain energy.

33:57

It happens. And, you know, no, not

33:59

everyone can be your customer. You have to

34:01

understand that. That's absolutely

34:03

true. So I think that something

34:06

that's really, really important

34:09

is that all relationships

34:11

in marketing, whether you're a b two b or

34:13

b two c, you know, business to

34:15

business or business to consumer, are actually

34:18

p two p person to

34:20

person. You need

34:22

to show yourself. You

34:24

need to show who you are. And that's

34:26

a big part of what's going to attract people to

34:29

your business. We all have our favorite

34:31

brands, right? You know, whether

34:33

you like a certain kind of dishwashing

34:36

liquid or you like a certain kind of

34:38

toothpaste, those

34:41

brands have created a personality

34:43

of some sort, a way to appeal

34:47

to attract their right people.

34:49

Now, there are still hundreds of other

34:51

toothpastes out there. That brand

34:53

has created something that appeals

34:55

to those particular customers.

34:58

And you're not going to be everybody's cup

35:01

of tea. I'm not everybody's cup of tea. That's

35:03

fine. There are lots of

35:05

other email marketers out there. But

35:07

for the people who resonate with me,

35:10

who understand what I say

35:12

and it makes sense to them,

35:15

those are the people going to come to me. Those are my

35:17

customers. Those are the people

35:19

who I'm going to want to work with and who

35:21

I can help the best. If

35:24

someone comes to your business and they're

35:26

like, what you're saying makes absolutely no sense to

35:28

me, it's

35:30

going to be really hard for you to

35:33

break through and make sure you're communicating

35:35

on the right level. Whereas

35:37

if someone comes to you and they're like,

35:40

you make so much sense. I have never heard

35:42

anyone say this like this before. Thank you

35:44

so much. That's your customer.

35:47

That's the person you want to be appealing to.

35:50

And you need to let that shine

35:52

through in your emails, in your

35:54

online promos, in your podcasts,

35:57

in your brochures, in whatever it is you're

35:59

doing, because that's what's

36:01

going to bring people in and it's going to bring the right

36:03

people in. You know, so many

36:06

businesses say, you know, when I ask who's your

36:08

ideal client? They're like, oh, anybody with a pulse.

36:12

No, no, no. Because

36:14

anybody with a pulse isn't the

36:16

person who has the problem that your product or service

36:18

solves. That's your first layer.

36:21

Then it's the people who resonate with

36:23

you and what you're doing.

36:25

The way you explain things and

36:27

the way your product solves that problem.

36:30

Yeah, I think, tanya, you explain

36:32

it perfectly. You know, let me put it

36:34

in a sales perspective. Let's say you

36:37

charge a set amount of hours, right,

36:39

for your services or you sell your product.

36:42

There are people who are willing to buy from

36:44

you today and they are really happy

36:46

to work with you. And

36:48

there are others who, if

36:50

you ban a little bit, they might work

36:52

with you, but they're horrible customer. So

36:55

same experience. Like, you go through

36:57

that in your day. What if you have

36:59

worked with all happy customers, right?

37:01

You describe in your bio and you work

37:03

with all grumpy customer who are

37:05

challenging you every step of the way, who

37:08

micromanage you, like the worst customer.

37:10

Which way do you

37:13

work? Like how much would you willing to

37:15

bet your health on it? But by

37:18

writing the right email, you

37:20

can actually communicate. So you attract,

37:22

you know, people who like you already. Then

37:25

you might actually filter people. I don't. I

37:27

don't like this person. I don't like the promo guy.

37:29

I'll go somewhere else and that's

37:31

okay. Sometimes I think they're

37:34

turning to, like a therapy session for

37:36

people who are in sales who are pulling their hair

37:38

out, right? I think you mentioned

37:40

it, like, so much better, Tanya. Right?

37:43

With the white way that you bring

37:45

them to your journey. Along the way,

37:47

you trust that person. So when you actually click

37:49

by or pick the phone to call, I

37:52

already made up my mind. Yeah.

37:55

They're coming to you as a ready

37:57

to purchase person. They're

38:00

good. You've given them the information

38:02

they need. They're ready to click on that button or make

38:05

that phone call or place that order.

38:07

That's exactly what you want. And that's what email

38:09

marketing can do for you. It's that salesperson

38:11

that never sleeps, if you will. But

38:14

I want to hit on that point that you were

38:16

just talking about is as

38:18

business owners, it saps our energy to

38:20

have customers who are not the right

38:23

fit for us. And I think that we

38:25

have this mentality that we have to have all

38:27

the customers, we have to

38:29

have everyone we possibly can. And the truth

38:31

is, we don't. We need

38:34

the people who are going to work best for our business

38:36

and help our business grow. And

38:38

that's not everybody. I'm a

38:41

pretty happy go lucky person. I'm not one

38:43

of those. I'm going to get angry at every single

38:45

thing people. And if someone is

38:47

like that, I don't necessarily want them as

38:49

my client because

38:52

we're not gonna communicate well,

38:55

and I'm not gonna be able to help them

38:57

as much as I could. Someone who's

38:59

also kind of happy go lucky,

39:02

easygoing, like me, because it's

39:04

gonna a. It's gonna be easy for. Easier for

39:06

me to write their copy, but

39:08

it's also gonna be easier for me to help their

39:11

business grow because I believe in what they're doing,

39:14

you know? And as a

39:16

b two b person,

39:19

that's something else you're doing. You're not just

39:22

helping a specific customer. You know, it's

39:24

like, you know, you're ringing someone at the grocery store.

39:26

You are literally helping another business grow.

39:30

And so we need to think about

39:32

what is beyond just the person we're dealing

39:34

with. There's all that other stuff.

39:37

There's their community. There's,

39:39

you know, their. Their family.

39:42

There's the entire world. It's,

39:44

how are we affecting the.

39:47

What we're putting out? How is

39:49

that affecting all of the people we're working with?

39:52

And the more we can

39:54

call those right people into us,

39:56

our businesses are going to go faster, which is what we

39:59

all want. Right. But also,

40:01

we're going to be able to serve our people

40:04

better. We're going to be able to

40:06

give them experience that

40:08

makes them really happy, that

40:10

get. That helps their business grow,

40:13

that helps them become

40:15

better people in their world so that they can do

40:17

the same for their people and

40:19

so on and so on and so on. And ultimately,

40:22

you know, it's. We're all interconnected

40:24

in some way or another, right? Yeah.

40:27

I will go back to your bio one last time. I

40:29

promise. Like, you really mention it

40:31

best, right. I'm looking at it right now.

40:34

Happy paying lawyer.

40:36

So if they. If they're happy, then

40:38

chances are you're going to be happy, you know, for

40:41

your day. And they're paying, so

40:43

that obviously explains itself. And

40:45

they're loyal, so they will work

40:47

with you over and over again whenever that

40:49

they have a chance. You imagine that

40:51

you are working with a bunch of people who are

40:53

grumpy, not happy with you, and

40:56

they're sometimes not paying, and then

40:58

they change vendor or they shop

41:00

around every single time. I

41:02

don't even have to explain you which side you

41:05

pick, but I think, Tanya, you gave us

41:07

a lot of good framework about email

41:09

marketing, like a good therapy

41:11

session for a small business professional. Why

41:14

we should focus on people who care about

41:16

our work, because that's very important.

41:19

It's very challenging as it is as

41:21

a small business professional. We

41:23

also want to be circled by people

41:26

who support us, people who pay us,

41:28

people who are loyal to our brand, then

41:32

to go out, people who are in

41:34

a dark world that not paying you and then just

41:37

don't care about your product and service. Maybe

41:39

you just happen to be at the right place

41:41

and they just mess with you for a little bit.

41:43

But for a listener who wanted to

41:46

find out more about what you do,

41:48

what would be the best way to connect with you?

41:50

Best way to connect with me is to go to tanyabroddycopywriter.com

41:53

dot. That is my website. You

41:55

will see all sorts of blog posts about all of

41:57

this stuff, but also you

42:00

will be able to download my lead magnet

42:02

which is that 30 subject lines

42:04

that will help you get your subscribers to open

42:07

and read your emails. And most importantly,

42:09

they'll help you write those emails. So you're getting them

42:11

out into the world. So check

42:13

that out. You will then get my welcome

42:15

sequence so you'll be able to see what that's all

42:18

about. And you're going to

42:20

get some really useful information on

42:22

email marketing. I do actually want to point

42:24

out one more thing about people who

42:26

are loyal, those loyal

42:28

customers. They recommend

42:31

you to their family and friends. Yeah.

42:33

Which is huge. It's another big way to grow

42:35

your customers because the

42:38

best marketing is word

42:40

of mouth. Think about the last time

42:42

you wanted to buy a car or buy a

42:44

bike or, you know, any really, any purchase.

42:46

You know, I wanted to try

42:48

a new kind of product. What do you use? You

42:51

ask a friend, well, guess

42:53

what? If someone really likes you and you're

42:55

their go to, they're going to recommend you.

42:58

So that's another reason to be building this

43:00

relationship is so that all of

43:02

those happy, paying, loyal customers say,

43:04

oh my gosh, you need promo material.

43:07

Talk to my buddy swire. You

43:09

know, Tanya, really happy to have you

43:11

on the show today. So you validate a

43:13

lot of my point and you helped

43:15

me take on my stress. I

43:18

would say, like, really thank you for

43:20

being a good guest on the show. You are

43:22

very, very welcome. It was an absolute pleasure

43:24

to be here. Thank you for having me.

43:28

Thank you for listening to the show. If

43:30

you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to

43:32

the podcast and share with your friends or

43:35

colleagues who might benefit from the conversation.

43:38

Any questions or feedback. Feel free to reach

43:40

out to me on LinkedIn. I'd love to connect

43:42

with you. Our show is

43:44

live streamed both on YouTube and LinkedIn

43:47

every Tuesday at

43:48

00 p.m. pacific Standard time. I'll

43:50

see you next time.