Episode Transcript
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Running and growing a small business.
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The Small Business Show is the official podcast of Garuda promo and branding solutions.
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Hello everyone. You're listening to the Small Business show.
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My name is Swayer Ho. You can also call me the Promo Guy.
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My guest today is Sarah Noel Block from Tiny Marketing.
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Sarah is a content marketing strategist for facility services, constructions, medical and
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real estate products, and SaaS companies.
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She works with Timestrap Marketers in Midsize B, two B industry to provide high impact
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marketing without increasing headcount.
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Sarah uses her test and proven framework to streamline content marketing, social media and
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email marketing through Smart System.
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She won third place for the best construction blocks 2018.
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From the construction marketing ideas. How are you doing, Sarah?
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I'm good, how are you? I love to dive deeper today with your expertise in content marketing.
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Before that, love to find out more about how did you get into this industry and what do
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you like most about what you do.
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How did I get into marketing?
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I have been in marketing from the very beginning.
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2008, 2007 is when I got into marketing.
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It was just something that I always wanted to do.
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I've always been a lover of storytelling and there's so much of that involved in marketing
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that it was a no brainer for me.
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And I love being able to take what I've learned about customer, like an ideal customer
1:49
avatar and creating a full story arc around that to make it like your offer really
1:49
sellable.
2:05
That's very interesting. Love to ask you more about content marketing.
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It seems like it's a buzzword right now.
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Everyone that I know who are somewhat related to marketing are talking about content
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marketing.
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So what is exactly content marketing and what do you consider content marketing?
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If I just forward someone else's blog onto my feet?
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No, I don't think content marketing is a buzzword.
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It is the core of marketing now content marketing is educating your audience and teaching
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them how to solve their problem in whatever way that you want.
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So whatever medium you want. So whether that's blogs, YouTube, social media, podcasts, all of that is content
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marketing.
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It's just a matter of adding value and building that know like trust factor.
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So what would you consider in your experience as good content marketing strategy?
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You mentioned, you know, finding the avatar.
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Can you walk us through the process by finding the avatar?
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Kind of the research that you have to put in to make sure that the content is relevant for
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them?
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Yes. So I'm glad you asked that question.
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I was telling you before we went live that I just topped off a client call, which is why I
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was sprinting to this one and that's exactly what we were talking about.
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So what I do is I build out an ideal customer avatar first before anything else, so I can
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understand the customer, their pain points, their fears, their wants, and most
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importantly, their journey.
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So what kind of content do they need at each stage of their customer journey?
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What pain are they going through on each stage of the customer journey?
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And that's the real guide for content marketing.
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You start with that one customer and then you build out a super simple funnel like this is
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how I'll gain awareness with that particular customer.
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What kind of content will they need when they're trying to make a decision on what company
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to go with that's mid funnel content.
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And that usually takes place in the form of a lead magnet or a webinar.
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And then you go down to the bottom of funnel content and that would be your email list,
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your sales page, things like that.
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How many avatars should we have or would you encourage us to start out with just one?
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Obviously I'm sure that you get that question a lot.
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Are we missing out if we only focus on one avatar?
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I think that it's best to create your marketing thinking of one particular avatar.
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Now for bigger companies you often sell to committees, especially B two B's.
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You're selling to a committee of buyers.
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So you need to understand your core, the buyer, their avatar, that's first and foremost.
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But you need to understand the influencers and what kind of content they'll need to
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overcome any challenges in buying from you.
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Yeah, that's very interesting. Especially you work with SaaS company so that is a long cycle process.
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Sometimes for B two B you might need to obviously connect with the decision maker who
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ultimately say yes to the contract.
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And you probably need some sort of content for the technical people right there.
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It's got to be there maybe actually the user friendly.
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So that will be same avatar but different type of content.
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Is that what you normally would do?
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Let's use that example, let's roll with that and say that we're talking to a B two B, SaaS
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company right now and they sell to a buying committee.
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Let's say it's HubSpot. HubSpot is the company.
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So probably their primary buyer is in the marketing department, let's say a marketing
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director.
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So that would be their customer. Avatar is the marketing director.
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And then you'll want influencer personas to understand what kind of pushback will the It
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team have because they're the ones that need to implement this and they might need to
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train other people.
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So then you create content around that.
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You just want to start spitballing workshopping.
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What are they going to push back on and then create anything that you can to alleviate
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that.
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And then who else will be involved? The CFO?
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What kind of questions are they going to have about the money and the return on
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investment?
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Then you might have if it's a smaller company, the CEO needs to sign off in the end, what
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are they going to care about?
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Probably sales. So how will your software affect sales?
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How will you improve sales or how will you streamline processes so the company saves
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money, workshop all of those things?
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What are these challenges that people are going to push back on and create content around
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that so your internal person can use that to sell for you?
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Yeah, I really like that example. You have different person in mind for the team, kind of like sales, the ultimate decision
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maker.
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Maybe the CEO, maybe the owner.
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But I like to connect with the secretary and executive assistant because I know the
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executive assistant don't carry money as much as CEO.
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But then they do want it to have the person they like to work with.
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If I have the best price but they hate working with me, then probably I wouldn't go that
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far similar to your example.
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So the technical people needs to be okay with your product.
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So then they will say to the CEO or the decision maker, these guys are good, they pass all
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the tests that we need to do on product.
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Yeah, exactly. So you'll go through that process and you might find that the secretary is an influencer
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in this, that this is the person who the CEO relies on to do the research.
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And if you irritate that person when they're in the research phase, you're off the list.
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So you need to make sure to create for them too.
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Yeah, I want to actually backtrack a little bit and talk more about the avatar.
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For a listener who might not yet be familiar with the word avatar, what is it and how
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should we begin to create our own avatar?
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Yes. So it's basically a profile of your ideal customer.
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You can do this a lot of ways. So this is my process is I'll survey my customers, the top 20% of my customers who I
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basically want to clone them.
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I love them so much. So I surveyed them to start to understand how they found me, what pain points they're
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having at each stage in the funnel, what kind of content they like to consume, things like
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that.
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I'll send them a SurveyMonkey survey on that.
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So I gather that information. I'll interview my very favorite customers so I can hear from their mouth the reason that
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they choose me and what they were going through when they decided to start looking for the
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solution that I provide.
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So I'll interview them. So first survey, then interview.
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And then you can start bringing AI into it and competitor research where you can use a
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series of prompts in Chat, GBT and Bing AI to fill in the gaps that you haven't been able
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to get through competitive research and your customer research.
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Yeah, it's funny that the last guest that I had on last week talked about actually the
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same thing is that you need to connect with your client and especially people.
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Your top ten are people who I would assume that spend the most money with you or they love
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you the most or they are your repeat customer.
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And Sarah, I think you have a really good point too.
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What if you could clone your best customer?
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What if, let's say 20% of your client give you 80% of your business?
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If you can clone actually one of them, then you actually increase yourself versus if you
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go all marketing to everybody.
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Because a lot of times when I hear in marketing I want to target everyone.
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We're a software company, everyone needs to use software or whatever.
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Fill in the blanks that you have. So you actually say we should focus and we should connect and then fill in the blanks.
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Maybe I really cater to certain demographics or certain age group, for example, and then
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we cater to those people and focus on just that.
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There are millions of people you can sell to and then you're talking to nobody because
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your message is so diluted.
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Instead, it's so much easier to look at your favorite customers and answer a couple of
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questions like which clients are the most profitable?
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Do the services I do for them, are they sustainable?
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Are they something that I want to continue doing?
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And do I like them? Do I want to work with more people like that?
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Take those people and create that profile of them and make it super easy.
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So all of your content is speaking to a very specific person, all of your outreach.
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You can profile them in LinkedIn, Sales Navigator, put their exact details in there of
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your customer avatar and have a full list of other companies and leads that you should
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target later.
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I really like that, especially you mentioned, do you like working with them?
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A lot of times we get stressful, we pour our hair out.
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Look, just look at me, right? Because you are working with people who might or might not appreciate your work.
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What if you could find out your avatar and really to put your personality or your working
12:09
style in there, you know that these people work well with your work life balance, work
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well with your way of communication.
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Because sometimes there is going to be a mismatch and you have to understand, especially
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for a small business, there will be a good fit and sometimes there will not be a good fit.
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So keep that into consideration and in your avatar because you're creating it.
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You can dictate anywhere that you like. In there exactly you want them to be what easy to work with and they appreciate your work
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and they find a ton of value in what you do.
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Those are the people you want to clone. Let's clone our favorite customers.
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So once we do that, and I think we are setting up for this question, once you identify the
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avatar and then you identify what they need, what their pain points are, you talk about
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Ten X, your content marketing strategy.
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Can you touch on that a little bit?
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Yeah. So create a Cornerstone marketing that you are willing to commit to doing once a month or
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once a quarter.
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So let's say your Cornerstone piece would be a podcast episode.
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So let's say you're interviewing a series of influencers and you spend 60 minutes once a
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quarter doing that.
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Chop that up into enough episodes so it is going out every other week.
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And then you can repurpose it into shorts, reels, TikToks, YouTube clips, all your social
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media and email.
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And you can essentially batch create all of your content for the quarter within a couple
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of hours.
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Makes it so much easier. You're always showing up, but you're able to spend your time doing other things because
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you've batched it and you've scheduled it so you don't have to deal with it again.
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Yeah, I really love that example. Sarah. I think I'm on to something.
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I I too want to be consistent, showing visibility right on the platform.
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I like LinkedIn, but it's time consuming, right?
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Doing the podcast and doing the editing, it's just time consuming.
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But if I know with a topic in mind for my avatar so right now if I know that they care
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about certain topics that they have, maybe I go do the content that they want.
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I know content that they would like to consume.
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And then I don't give them everything all at once.
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I slowly, slowly give them one by one.
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Yeah. So then when they see swire or when they see your company, they will click that email open
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right away or they click that post right away.
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So that's a really great point there.
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Yeah. Focus on the pain point that you solve for that one person.
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Keep it super simple. And it really works because there are thousands of people that are exactly like your
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favorite customer with the exact same pain point.
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What kind of question or what kind of strategy do you advise us to uncover that pain?
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Because a lot of times I know you have pain, but I might be guessing.
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But unless it's coming directly out from the avatar, you don't really know their pain.
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How do you get people to share about what they're going through that are challenging to
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them?
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Yeah. I would ask what made you look for this service in the first place?
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Was there some sort of trigger?
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Was there an event that happened that made you realize that you needed this service?
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And those are questions that will pull out what their pain points are.
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Because while they might not hear, hey, what are your pain points?
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That's what will come out. That's what their answer will be.
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Yeah. I think that's the key to success.
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Right. So a lot of us are in the commodity based business.
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Even if you're a SaaS company, you somewhat can be considered a commodity because
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obviously you have competitors out there.
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If you only compete on price, then you'll be a commodity.
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But if you can uncover the pain point using HubSpot example.
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Right? So if you're able to connect the marketing company and then also the technical people so
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now you become the needed solution.
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I need them, I need to buy. This exactly to use you.
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But it takes time and sometimes we want to skip that.
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We just think of doing like a Google ad and then it will translate to sales right away.
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Yeah, think about it this way. You have no competitors when you are selling to one specific customer avatar and you have
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your unique value proposition that's through all of your marketing and your content, you
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are a market of one at that point.
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Okay, let's talk about money.
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Right? So does it cost a lot of money to do?
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And if you have a tiny team or in a case the small business, it might only be the owner
17:03
itself or maybe a small team of people doing that, how does that work budget wise?
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And how do you create a system that they can lean on for getting this done?
17:23
Yeah, so my whole tiny marketing framework is around this because the majority of the
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people I work with, it's the owner that is doing the marketing or they have someone that
17:23
is a stand in for marketing that just is dealing with it.
17:39
You could either bring on the tools that will do everything that you need or you could
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outsource to someone and make it super easy.
17:48
So the first thing I would do is whatever that core content is that you have chosen,
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create a template for it.
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So it's super easy to replicate over and over again and put that in your project
17:56
management tool and put that in your Google templates so you're able to just replicate it
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really fast.
18:08
And let's go with the example that it's a small business and it's an owner that has to
18:08
implement all of this.
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If they took one week every quarter and decided this is my marketing week, then they can
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put together that core piece of content and if they used a tool like Descript, they can
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cut it into all of those videos and they can edit their podcast and they can push it out
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to buzzsprout all from one location.
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So that makes it super easy.
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You can use a tool like Toasty AI and upload your wave file into that and it'll create the
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articles, the show notes, pages, pull quotes and chapter highlights all for you.
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So you can do all of this on your own within a week.
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Hang on, Sarah. I'm writing all this are those are really interesting because as a podcast host, I have
18:59
actually a lot of footage from the guests that talk during the show that I know my client
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will be interested.
19:13
So what I'm thinking about doing for my own with all the contents that I have been doing
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this podcast since for two years now, is I will find out their pain point.
19:24
Each of them cares about different things. And if they're my top 20 client, I can afford to spend time to think about them.
19:32
I'm not thinking about transactional. So if I know that they care about, let's say, for example, employees retention or they
19:34
care about if they visit the engagement for the trade show, I would pick out specific
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content for them.
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So now I can chop it up with the tools that you just mentioned and then send it to them
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periodically.
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My goal is not have them think of me as a salesperson is I want them to think of me as a
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partner like Swire really do listen to what we care about and actually going out there to
19:52
create the content specifically for us.
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So he actually a consultant that we should listen to.
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Yeah. And think about how much relief do you have right now knowing the pressure is off you.
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You don't have to sell to everyone anymore and you know exactly what to talk about.
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It makes it so much easier knowing who your person is and what challenge you're solving.
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That brings to the next question that I have.
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I think if you have B, two B, email is still a strong tool and I think you touch on a
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little bit of it to send them relevant content.
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Talk to us more about the simple three step formula for welcoming email sequence.
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Yeah. Your welcome sequence should be the first thing that your new subscribers see.
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Oftentimes I'll sign up for something and then I'm left cold.
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And then out of nowhere they'll email me and I'm like, I don't even remember who you are.
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You need to have a welcome sequence or you're going to be forgotten and use it as a way to
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indoctrinate them into your community.
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Any new subscriber is essentially saying, okay, I want to be part of you, I want to be
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part of your community.
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So the first thing I like to do is send them a gift.
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So here is some sort of free thing.
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It might be a book, it might be digital DIY bundle with like 100% discount.
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Something like that is the first email.
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The second email is I will want to give them a virtual tour of my life.
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So I will send them my website information, my podcast information, just different ways
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they can interact with me and what they would learn in those interactions.
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And then the last thing I like to send them is this is how I solve the problem, my
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specific problem that I solve for people exactly like you.
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So it's more of a sales oriented email and then they can transition to a nurture sequence
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or an evergreen sales sequence.
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How would you space them out? Does it depends on the business that you're in?
22:11
The welcome sequence I would put at most a day apart.
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Keep them pretty sequential so they know what they're getting they know what's happening.
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It's not going to last forever. So this will be like a more general approach.
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Obviously, a company would deal with maybe different type of client, but this will be
22:26
general information, a gift and something about you or your company.
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And then the last one is this is maybe a case study of how using a product or services can
22:34
solve our previous clients problem.
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Yeah. So gift first.
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Next one would be a virtual tour, how they can hang out with you online.
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And then the third one would be yeah, how you solve the problem for your client.
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A case study would be a great way to do that. You could embed testimonials or video testimonials from your clients would be great.
23:04
In the third one, from your point. Of view to hearing in front of a client, especially on LinkedIn.
23:10
Right. Let's focus on LinkedIn. How often should you be posting, and then what kind of content would you encourage us to
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do?
23:19
Yeah. So on LinkedIn, I think it's less important to post and more important to interact with
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other people's posts.
23:26
So I will post probably three times a week on LinkedIn, but I'll make sure to set aside 15
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minutes every day to interact with people on LinkedIn and comments on their posts.
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And it'll give you so much more traction than going on your soapbox and doing your own
23:40
posts all the time.
23:47
What would you say we should reply?
23:50
Is it like the generic one that you're welcome, congratulations, or how do you look for
23:50
and what would you like to say on the comment?
24:01
No, don't go generic. I'm sure you knew the answer to that.
24:06
Give something insightful, because when you comment, you're going to show up in the feed
24:06
of the people who already commented on that post and that other person's post.
24:17
So you want it to be valuable enough that people follow you.
24:21
Every time I spend those 15 minutes commenting on other people's posts, I get a ton more
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followers because I'm essentially doing a post.
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But on someone else's post. Yeah.
24:34
And if you're listening right now, do look up Sarah's LinkedIn profile.
24:39
She does have a lot of followers. And once you have more followers, then your message can go to reach a lot more people than
24:40
you normally.
24:47
Yeah. And if you're looking to grow LinkedIn, definitely do a newsletter.
24:50
The newsletters grow so fast. Every time I send out a new newsletter, I get a traffic alert on my website, just like,
24:53
Boop, your traffic is up today.
25:03
Okay. But the newsletter that you do on LinkedIn will obviously base back on your avatar and
25:04
then your ideal client, what they're going through, and then you put your thought into it
25:04
and then send out is it a monthly newsletter that you do?
25:18
I do weekly. Okay, wow.
25:20
But you can choose. So what else would you suggest?
25:24
And I know we talked about a lot onto it.
25:27
You mentioned podcasts, you mentioned videos.
25:30
What are some of the ways that you can suggest us to repurpose our content to grow
25:30
audience?
25:35
Because if you talk to a small team, especially if it's just the owner themselves, they
25:35
might not have time to do it.
25:43
They may only have a little time to do that.
25:45
And it seems like you're kind of forced to create something new, to create something
25:45
trendy.
25:51
What is the best way to repurpose the content that you already have?
25:55
So let's say your company spends a decent amount of money on doing a research report every
25:55
year.
26:02
So you have this research report and that's probably your main lead magnet because people
26:02
want to access that information.
26:08
So take that research report and repurpose it to high heaven.
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So something that I do for my clients is I go through their reports and I create a content
26:13
plan around it and they end up with like 30, 40 different content ideas from that report.
26:27
Now all of these different elements will go back to that lead magnet of the original
26:27
report.
26:32
So you get more eyes on that too.
26:35
And you're feeding the marketing monster.
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So all of your channels are getting content on it.
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So what I recommend is taking something meaty and going through it and creating a content
26:41
plan to be able to repurpose it.
26:51
And you can do this super simple too.
26:53
Like if you hosted a virtual summit, for example, you have 30 master classes from experts.
27:01
Take those videos and you can turn those into clips, shorts, all of that.
27:07
You can also use that same app I told you about, Toasty AI, to turn those into articles.
27:13
So you can repurpose really easily that way too.
27:17
Yeah, I really like that. I think I started to do some of that you just mentioned because in the promotional product
27:18
industry, there are different organizations that gives out annual report and they do the
27:18
research of the effectiveness on different items.
27:32
I know some of our clients, they like the numbers they want to know.
27:36
85% of people use that. 72% of these people like that.
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So I actually use those percentage that they have and then I create my own article or put
27:39
in my thought into it.
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Now if you, for example, give people a pen, 85% of people will use it.
27:53
Sounds more educated and I actually tagged the research company for that.
27:58
You're not just speaking out from your mouth, you are doing your research.
28:03
And then now I am connecting with my followers and my audience to give you this report
28:03
because I took the time to research that.
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And not only that, then, now you'll be seen as an expert for your industry because you
28:11
have access to those reports and that's why people who are reaching out should listen to
28:11
you more.
28:23
That's kind of very interesting that you just pointed out, Sarah.
28:26
Yeah, let's take that research report and run with it because it doesn't just do that, it
28:26
gives you an opportunity to talk, to influencers and get their opinions on the research
28:26
report results and then you can create a whole series about that.
28:42
You get tons of media coverage because other people want access to that data.
28:47
And Google, it has eat to be able to rank high in Google and one of those elements is
28:47
experience and expertise and a research report will be able to provide that.
29:05
It's original information that you can't get anywhere else.
29:08
So it definitely has lags and is well worth the money.
29:13
Sarah, I think this is an important question and I think there are different personality.
29:19
There are people who are better on camera, there are people who have a good voice, right?
29:24
They love to be on podcasts and we also have writers there.
29:28
So how do you say we should do?
29:31
Should we focus first on what we are good at first?
29:35
Or do you think that we need to be all around, we have to be on video, we have to be on
29:35
podcasts and we have to write an article.
29:41
What are your thoughts? You don't have to do everything, just think of it, just be a minimalist about it and
29:42
whatever medium you prefer in your content creation, go with that and you can still
29:42
repurpose it.
29:55
If writing is your thing and you don't want to be on video and you hate your voice, that's
29:55
cool too.
30:02
You can still repurpose it into emails, social media, you can compile them into an ebook
30:02
or a larger guide.
30:10
There's still so much you can do with it.
30:12
I'm not a writer by using grammarly and chat GBD as a big helps and boost to my
30:12
credibility.
30:19
But I can talk, right? So whatever medium or platform that you like to use, think about people, like to dig into
30:20
your mind because there are people calling you every day asking you questions about what
30:20
you do.
30:31
So obviously your input and your value is very important.
30:35
Maybe somehow to find the best way that you can to put this down or repurpose it with some
30:35
data or sometimes I've seen influencer, they jump on a trendy topic and give their tick on
30:35
it.
30:48
If you play video games right now, there are people who commentate other people playing
30:48
video games, they love that and think about that way and you could be as creative as you
30:48
like.
31:00
After the pandemic I see a lot more people being more engaging and they repurpose content
31:00
in a way that I'd never thought of before.
31:09
Yeah, the pandemic changed so much.
31:12
I think that we care more about connecting with other people.
31:18
So I think that's part of where it came from.
31:21
People started creating more so they can connect more and then they had all this content
31:21
they're like might as well.
31:26
Repurpose it and then I also want to do that too.
31:29
I do see. That some of us feel that we're kind of weird and strange.
31:34
I'm weird and strange. But if you show your personality and then if you really know what you're talking about,
31:35
there are many people who are connected to your personality out there.
31:44
Maybe in your local yeah, maybe in your local area, then no one cares about what you do.
31:50
But it's a big world out there with the streaming platform.
31:53
Sarah, you and I connected virtually right now.
31:56
We're having a conversation. There are actually a lot more people who are drawn to your energy.
32:01
Maybe you're weird, they're drawn to your weirdness.
32:04
Think about your content strategy and think about your avatar and to put out the right
32:04
content.
32:09
Yeah. And that's definitely something that you want to take into consideration as you're
32:10
creating your brand messaging so other people can't or your brand voice and tone so other
32:10
people can replicate.
32:18
It is be you.
32:21
You want to attract and repel, which sounds weird, but you want to repel the wrong people.
32:29
If you start working with someone and you're a weirdo and they're like, oh, no, not for
32:29
me, it's not going to be a good interaction.
32:37
You're not going to enjoy working with them.
32:39
You want to repel the wrong people. Yeah, I like that.
32:43
I actually use the podcast and the video that I put on LinkedIn actually to kind of filter
32:43
down and to let people know that this is Swire Ho and this is the way that he talks.
32:53
And so actually that would filter some of the not good fit people already.
32:59
So don't worry if you are doing just your goal is to connect with your avatar.
33:06
And then like Sarah said, if you survey the avatar, there's a reason why they buy from you
33:06
and then do more of know if that's your calling for your avatar.
33:17
Do more of that. And there are always other people who are not going to connect with you or may never buy
33:18
from you.
33:24
So you're going to be happy with that too.
33:27
Yeah. So long. That's fine.
33:30
Sarah, I think it got into the point that listeners have individual questions that want to
33:30
ask you.
33:37
For people who want to reach out, what would be the best way to connect with you?
33:41
Yeah, they can go to Saranowellblock.com and let's see, right after this, I will create
33:41
the URL Sarahnowellblock.com Smallbusiness show and they will be able to find me
33:41
everywhere.
33:59
Okay, if you're listening, I'll put all the links to the show notes.
34:02
Sarah, thank you so much for coming out today.
34:05
I learned a lot from you. Thank you.
34:07
It was a pleasure. Thank you for listening to the show.
34:12
If you enjoyed this episode, please subscribe to the podcast and share with your friends
34:12
or colleagues who might benefit from the conversation.
34:20
Any questions or feedback, feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn.
34:23
I'd love to connect with you. Talk show is live stream both on YouTube and LinkedIn.
34:28
00 P.m Pacific Standard Time.
34:32
I'll see you next time.
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