0:12

If it were up to

0:14

the American government, Poly Face

0:17

Farm would not exist. Joel

0:19

Salatin is known as the

0:21

lunatic farmer because he believes

0:23

in a righteous food system

0:25

and standing up to big

0:27

government bureaucrats who want to

0:29

control our food. He's endured

0:31

harassment, summonses, confiscations, surprise visits

0:33

and criminal charges since opening

0:35

Poly Face in 1961, America's

0:37

premier non-industrial food production oasis

0:40

located in Virginia's Shenandoah Valley.

0:42

Many small farmers have tried to

0:44

fight but lost the battle. It's too

0:46

expensive and the legalese is difficult to

0:48

circumvent. This interview is about a farmer's

0:50

lifetime dealing with these issues and why

0:53

you should feel empowered to grow your

0:55

own food or at least

0:57

support the local organic regenerative farmer in

0:59

your area. Joel is using food as

1:01

a ministry. I highly recommend watching this

1:03

interview on the Real Alex Clark YouTube

1:05

channel. Joel is very animated, as you

1:07

know I am too, and it's just

1:10

really fun to watch for the whole

1:12

family. After you listen, look for my

1:14

20-minute Farm mini documentary and tour of

1:16

Poly Face on YouTube. It would mean

1:18

the world to me if you left

1:20

a five-star review to support this podcast

1:22

at no cost to you, if you

1:24

believe in what I'm doing, which is

1:26

interviewing experts with a unique remedy on

1:28

how to heal a sick culture physically,

1:30

mentally and spiritually, and you

1:32

are financially blessed. You can leave a

1:35

tax-deductible donation for the show through the

1:37

link in the description. Tell them, I

1:39

want to donate specifically to the spillover.

1:41

We are produced by a 501c3

1:44

nonprofit, so everything we do is funded

1:46

strictly through donations from viewers like you

1:48

who are passionate about this same mission.

1:50

I was able to tour Joel's regenerative

1:53

farm and interview him in person about

1:55

his American legacy because of your donations.

1:57

Joel Salatin is the poster child. of

2:00

regenerative organic farming and was the star

2:02

of the documentary Food Inc., one of

2:04

my favorites of all time, Kiss the

2:06

Ground and featured at length in the

2:09

New York Times bestseller, The Omnivore's Dilemma.

2:11

Look, homework to watch. Joel is downright

2:13

funny and entertaining in his quest for

2:15

true food freedom for Americans, something I

2:17

strongly believe in. Please welcome him to

2:19

the spillover. When

2:23

I was in the farm store earlier, I asked one of

2:25

the young girls, she said she was an apprentice and she

2:27

was young and I said, have you

2:29

asked Joel yet how many marriages have

2:32

spawned from kids being apprentices

2:34

together at this farm? There has to be tons.

2:36

There are, there are. We're averaging 1.5 a year.

2:40

No way. Yeah, there's been a bunch.

2:42

Yeah, because you've got these kids, I

2:44

mean, I'm assuming a lot of them homeschool

2:46

families, ag families that wanna come learn and

2:48

then how long do they come here for?

2:51

Five months is the minimum. So the stewardship

2:53

program is May 1 to September 30, five

2:55

months and then if they wanna be an apprentice, they put their

2:58

name in a hat for the apprentice and

3:00

we pick anywhere from two to four of those

3:02

and then they start, they go October 15 to October

3:04

15. So the three

3:07

apprentices this year were

3:09

stewards last year. So

3:12

you have this, you know, this nice continuity and

3:14

they become then the first level managers of this year's

3:16

stewards. And how old are they? I mean, what's

3:19

the youngest? Eighteen, you have to be 18. Okay,

3:21

and that's probably not your rule. I'm assuming that's

3:23

like the state. We used to take them at

3:25

15, 16, but then, you

3:27

know, OSHA and the government regulations on child,

3:29

whatever, child labor and all this stuff. A

3:32

16 year old can get a driver's license and

3:34

hurdle 3000 pounds of steel down in the

3:36

interstate at 70 miles an hour, but a

3:38

cordless drill, ah, that's a power tool. That's,

3:40

you know, you can't put a 16 year

3:43

old with a power tool. So

3:45

they have to be, they have to be 18. So

3:47

these parents are, I mean, their kids are

3:49

technically young adults, but I mean, still really

3:52

young, but you've got parents agreeing to

3:54

send their kids to hang out for five months with

3:56

the lunatic farmer. I mean, other parents

3:58

are probably like, you're... sending them where? Why

4:02

do people call you that? Why do you

4:04

call yourself that? Well, so that started years

4:06

ago when I was called a

4:09

bioterrorist, a typhoid Mary, numerous

4:12

things. I mean, I was told how

4:14

many, why do you want to kill?

4:17

Why do you want to kill half the planet? Because

4:19

we all know that if you don't use chemicals, everybody's

4:21

going to die of starvation. You have the tension between,

4:23

well, do I get frustrated at this or do I

4:25

just, all right,

4:27

fun. Let's have fun with

4:29

it. Lean into it. Lean into it. So I

4:32

decided to lean into it and have fun with

4:34

it. So I came up with my own moniker.

4:36

So he's an environmentalist. So he's for, you

4:38

know, teachers' unions, abortion, higher

4:42

taxes, more government, more EPA, more regulations,

4:44

more, you know, no, no, I'm not

4:46

any of that, you know. So I

4:48

was this anomaly in the

4:52

overall genre of environmental

4:54

farming. And so

4:57

I decided to just, and

4:59

to take the moniker, I

5:02

fully embrace being the weirdo. Was it hard

5:04

to make friends with the other farmers? Oh,

5:07

it's always been hard to make friends with other farmers.

5:10

I mean, our own community still calls

5:12

me a bioterrorist and a

5:15

typhoid Mary and all that stuff. Because they

5:17

really believe, they really believe that our unvaccinated

5:19

cows are going to get sick and

5:22

they're going to give diseases to their

5:24

cows. Of course, they're vaccinated, right? So

5:27

if vaccines work, why

5:29

should they fear my unvaccinated? I finally

5:31

took on this moniker, you know, Christian,

5:35

libertarian, environmentalist, capitalist, lunatic farmer, basically

5:37

saying, don't put me in a

5:39

box. You know, there are some

5:42

things, for example, some things on a

5:44

local level, I'd almost be a socialist.

5:46

You know, I mean, if a community doesn't want

5:48

a factory farm to be located in the

5:50

geographic boundaries of a community, fine,

5:54

but it's totally different at the federal level.

5:56

There are things that can

5:59

or should be done. done or I would embrace

6:02

or endorse at a local

6:04

level that I wouldn't at state or federal and

6:07

all the way down the line.

6:09

Are American farmers basically prisoners? Yes.

6:12

Yes. What a great question. So

6:14

if I was king for a day, like if

6:16

I had, if I was sovereign and people

6:19

ask me what would one thing, what

6:22

would be the one thing that you would do if

6:24

you were sovereign? One

6:27

thing I would do, I would pass

6:29

a food

6:32

emancipation proclamation. Now that's a strong

6:34

word. All right. I get

6:36

it. But the fact is our

6:38

food system is enslaved by a plethora

6:42

of regulations

6:46

that are, that have been

6:48

put in place by

6:50

the abuses of the

6:52

agra industrial complex that

6:56

plays a completely different game, both

6:59

in worldview and in

7:01

practice, and in practice than

7:05

direct market, small scale neighborhood

7:07

community oriented outfits.

7:09

Now people have heard of big food,

7:12

but they've maybe not heard of big

7:14

ag. What is big

7:16

agriculture? Okay. So

7:18

big agriculture is

7:20

about centralizing food. You have

7:22

centralized processing facilities. You have

7:25

centralized factory farm production facilities.

7:27

You have centralized Chicago

7:31

board of trade. You've got centralized marketing

7:34

systems and you've even

7:37

got centralized food chains, supermarkets.

7:40

The result of that concentration

7:42

and centralization of the

7:47

commodities is

7:49

a concessionized

7:51

regulatory structure that

7:54

prejudices small

7:57

outfits. Let's just say that to

7:59

make charcuterie. All right. want to make charcuterie. That

8:01

to do that and sell it legally, I need

8:04

a $5,000 special like

8:07

cold chain food chain thermometer. Okay.

8:10

Well, if I'm making a tractor trailer load

8:12

of charcuterie or 10 tractor

8:14

trailer loads, a

8:17

$5,000 thermometer is a spit in the ocean. It's

8:19

nothing. Okay. It's just, you know, okay. It's a

8:21

little, but if I'm making

8:23

a five gallon bucket full in

8:26

my kitchen, it's

8:29

a, it's an enterprise stopper. I mean, I'm

8:31

thinking about like seeds, for example, like, you

8:33

know how there's all these rules about what you can

8:35

and can't do. And, um, a lot of people feel

8:37

like I can't get out of government

8:39

subsidies to, to even go in the regenerative

8:42

direction if I wanted to. The single

8:44

biggest impediment of,

8:47

of an integrity food system

8:49

is the regulatory structure

8:51

that is highly prejudicial against

8:55

innovation. So the

8:57

government came in years ago and tried

8:59

to close that down our chicken processing.

9:01

Now we process in an open air shed and,

9:05

um, and they came in

9:07

and said, you know, this is, this is illegal.

9:09

You, uh, you, you, you're,

9:12

you're open air of the air is unsanitary.

9:15

What? Yeah. And

9:17

so fortunately we had a lab report

9:20

that had just been done that showed

9:22

that our chicken, um, averaged

9:25

133, um, colony forming units of bacteria per

9:29

milliliter to the second permutation. And I've already told you more

9:31

than I understand. I mean, that's just the way they write

9:34

it. And the store bought birds that had 40

9:36

chlorine baths are had no,

9:38

I already had no chlorine. The

9:40

store bought ones cultured 3,600 CFU per milliliter

9:44

to the second permutation 3,600 compared to 133. All

9:46

right. We were that much cleaner.

9:50

And so I look at these folks and I

9:52

say, so are we interested in

9:54

clean or are we

9:57

interested in concrete, stainless steel, light bulbs

9:59

and inflow? They said, they

10:01

said, well, that isn't,

10:03

you know, it's just not about clean. I said, well,

10:05

what else? They said, well, you need, you need changing

10:07

lockers for your employees.

10:11

Back at that time, we don't have any employees. I said,

10:14

and 50 feet from where we're processing these chickens, we've

10:16

got two bathrooms in our house. Mom

10:18

has two bathrooms in her house. And if

10:21

I want to go number one, I just step behind

10:23

a tractor, you know? And it's like, what does any

10:25

of that have to do with the, how clean the

10:27

chicken breast is? Nothing. Nothing whatsoever.

10:29

And clearly it didn't. And we were, and

10:31

we were, you know, 25 times

10:34

cleaner than what was in the

10:36

store that had the USDA inspection sticker on it

10:38

and had 40 chlorine baths. Why

10:40

does DC come up with these types of

10:43

strange rules for farmers? Why do they even

10:45

care? Because

10:47

it's a one size fits all. Okay.

10:49

Essentially. And there are

10:51

some people who would answer that question, well,

10:53

it's a conspiracy and all this stuff. No,

10:56

no, no, I don't think so. I mean,

10:58

while I mean the, the industry, what

11:01

happens is you have consumer advocates, you

11:03

know, the Ralph nators, all right, the

11:05

consumer advocates. We want, we want to

11:07

change how this developed is

11:09

that in 1906, when

11:11

Upton Sinclair wrote the jungle. Okay.

11:15

And expose the horrible things

11:17

that were happening at armor and swift and

11:19

company and these great big food

11:22

processing companies. It dropped

11:24

sales from those big companies 50%

11:27

in six months. And

11:30

people started buying from their local, their

11:32

local butcher shops or local farmers. You

11:34

know, it was, it was the biggest

11:36

exodus from the industrial food system. This

11:38

is 1906. Okay. And,

11:40

uh, and the big companies were going bankrupt.

11:42

So they went to Teddy Roosevelt, who was

11:44

really a socialist. I call him Teddy Roosevelt

11:46

ski. And they went to

11:49

Teddy Roosevelt ski and said, Hey, please,

11:51

we need a government agency to certify

11:53

us and give us, and

11:56

give us credibility with the, with the American consumer again. And so

11:58

he obliged. and

12:00

gave them the food safety inspection service.

12:03

And since 1908 with

12:06

the food safety inspection service there's

12:08

been a steady decline

12:12

in small-scale

12:15

food systems because

12:19

what happens is the regulations that get

12:21

written go through a

12:26

funnel of

12:28

the industrial food system. They all

12:30

drank the same Kool-Aid, they all went to the same

12:32

college, they all play golf together. And so

12:35

the Agra Industrial

12:38

and Regulatory Complex, it's

12:40

a revolving door. The

12:43

guy that Obama put in charge

12:45

of the Food Safety Modernization Act

12:48

as his new food czar was

12:52

the attorney who

12:54

shepherded genetically modified

12:57

organisms through Monsanto.

13:00

So you have this, you know, you have this box

13:02

guarding the tin house. Yes. And

13:05

that's what happens. And so the

13:07

regulations are non-scalable. That's the

13:10

most important thing to realize. And they're

13:12

also to benefit themselves. Yes. It's not

13:14

to benefit us as consumers. They would

13:16

say their motives are pure as a

13:18

wind-driven snow. And if we don't

13:20

have these regulations, everybody's going to die. I

13:22

mean, I remember well testifying at the Richmond

13:24

enrichment at a hearing in Richmond

13:26

on a guy that put in a bill for cottage

13:29

industry, cottage, you know, local food systems.

13:32

And the head of

13:34

the Virginia Department of

13:37

Agriculture, commissioner, pulled me

13:39

aside. And I was one of

13:41

the testifiers in favor of

13:43

granting some leeway for small

13:45

scale operations. He pulls

13:47

me aside. He says, Joel, he says, we

13:50

can't give people choice in

13:52

their food. If we did, we couldn't

13:54

build hospitals fast enough to handle all

13:57

the sick people getting

13:59

tainted food. from unregulated farmers.

14:02

I mean, this is the world they live

14:04

in. They actually believe this. He's, you know,

14:06

he was sincere and I'm sure he's a

14:09

nice, sincere man. I have no

14:11

reason to think he was making this up.

14:13

But this is the world they live in.

14:15

They actually believe that

14:17

if you as a consumer had

14:20

a choice to come to my farm, look

14:23

around, ask around, smell around, and

14:25

as two voluntary consenting

14:28

adults engage

14:30

in consensual food transactions, and I'm

14:32

using, okay, all right, that

14:37

we would actually have more sickness

14:40

than we do with concentrated

14:43

animal feeding operations,

14:45

GMOs, and processed food

14:47

within the industry. So this is where I

14:49

think a lot of people get confused. You're

14:52

saying basically you should have

14:54

more questions and more distrust for a

14:56

company like Tyson, Walmart, getting your meat

14:58

from them, than just your neighbor farmer

15:00

down the road trying to sell you.

15:03

But the American people have been brainwashed

15:05

to think, ah, my neighbor

15:07

is the last person I can trust

15:09

when it comes to food safety. Why

15:11

do people have that backwards? Well, they've

15:13

been, for one thing, they've been

15:16

through government school and told what

15:18

to believe in the government school, and

15:20

the only things worth believing are things

15:22

that a government report tells you you

15:24

should believe in. Of course. That's that,

15:26

you know, we've been, you know, pushed

15:28

that direction. What happened with the industrial

15:30

food system was a new

15:33

opaqueness in

15:35

the food system. Before 1900, you know,

15:39

if you go back to 1800, 1700, good

15:43

night, the middle ages, I mean, history

15:45

up until the industrial revolution, which officially

15:47

started in 1837, if

15:51

you go back, the butcher,

15:53

the baker, and the candlestick maker were embedded

15:55

in the community. In fact, they lived in

15:58

an apartment above their shop. And

16:00

they went to church in a community.

16:02

They were in philanthropic organizations. Everybody

16:05

knew who the charlatan was. They knew who

16:07

the dirty butcher was. They knew who the

16:10

shyster was. They knew who, okay. And

16:12

so there was kind of a village

16:14

conscience, a village voice. Along came the

16:17

Industrial Revolution, and

16:19

things started to centralize, industrialize,

16:21

and the village voice was lost.

16:24

I mean, this kind of village, as

16:26

you started shipping and moving. Accountability check

16:28

on the people. Right, and accountability, yeah,

16:30

that kind of village accountability check didn't

16:32

happen. So what happens is, as you

16:35

started getting no trespassing, the butcher to baker

16:38

and a candlestick maker became too big for

16:40

a community. And they started

16:42

having, you know, no trespassing razor wire

16:45

around, and check-in gates, and security guard

16:47

gates, and things, and what

16:49

happens, what happens when

16:52

people feel ignorant

16:54

about something? Well,

16:57

they start to fear it. You know,

16:59

you fear the unknown, right? And so people began

17:01

to fear food. They began to

17:03

fear these food. What are they doing behind those fences?

17:05

What are they doing in those walls? They

17:08

won't let me in. They've got a guard, you see what I'm

17:10

saying? And this creates fear, which then moves toward paranoia. And

17:14

so the cry of the people, if you will, cry

17:16

of the people was, we

17:19

need something bigger than the industry to vet

17:22

them, to check up on them. So we

17:24

need an industrial, we

17:26

need an industrial vetting for the industrial

17:28

food system. So

17:30

this brings us 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s.

17:35

And then all of a sudden we get Uber. We

17:38

get Airbnb. I mean,

17:41

who would have thought 10 years before Uber

17:43

happened, if I said, you

17:45

know what, in 10 years, we're all gonna get in cars with

17:48

people that

17:51

don't even have taxi written on the top,

17:53

haven't been to chauffeur school. The

17:56

car hasn't been vetted through chauffeur, whatever,

17:59

like that. and we're

18:01

going to get in and they're going to take us places

18:05

and there's not going to be any government regulation at all.

18:07

You know, we're just going to do this voluntarily. You

18:10

just said you were crazy, right? What

18:12

made that happen? The internet. Real

18:15

time, real

18:17

time democratized monitoring,

18:19

auditing, vetting. The

18:22

Village Voice came back. Yes, yes, but

18:24

it came back on a global scale. Yes.

18:26

That's what I'm telling you. I'm telling you

18:29

that whatever's gone in the past has gone

18:31

in the past. Today we

18:33

have Airbnb. We've

18:35

got Uber. Uber. It is

18:38

time to Uberize our food system. We

18:40

now have the ability, if somebody comes to our

18:42

farm, doesn't like our chicken, man,

18:45

social media lights up. Don't

18:47

go to poly face. They got bad chicken. All

18:49

right. And so when you were asking about what's

18:52

the difference between Cargill and

18:54

a farm like ours is

18:58

we're vulnerable. We don't

19:00

have Philadelphia attorneys on retainer to protect

19:02

us from people. We don't have the

19:04

ear of the New York Times. We

19:06

don't have people

19:08

on retainer in, you

19:11

know, in senatorial offices to protect

19:13

us. Okay. We're out here on

19:16

our own. We're staking our own brand, our own reputation. And

19:20

it's me and you, baby, you know, the

19:22

producer and the, and the, the patron. So

19:24

basically if there is a complaint, if your

19:26

product was actually bad, if your food was

19:28

terrible, it would be very hard

19:31

to hide that. Absolutely. If people came out, we

19:33

would know. Whereas if somebody comes out and starts

19:35

speaking about Tyson, they've got all

19:37

of these different hoops that they would have to

19:39

jump through. They would silence that person. It's a

19:41

lot harder for the truth to get out about

19:43

those food companies. Think about what happens every

19:45

time there's a recall or, you

19:48

know, when there's, when there's rat

19:50

pee in the peanut butter, Georgia,

19:52

when there's E. coli in the

19:54

lettuce, California, whatever. Every single time there's a

19:56

recall, what's the first thing that happens? The CEO of

19:58

the company calls a press conference. And

20:01

he says, we have complied with

20:03

all government food safety regulations. The

20:06

industry has been hiding behind the skirts

20:10

of the friendly regulatory fraternity for

20:13

decades now. Folks, this is the

20:15

emperor has no clothes time. The

20:19

industry, which is in bed

20:21

with the regulatory bodies, have

20:24

been using the regulatory bodies

20:27

as cover to

20:29

cheapen food, to

20:31

cheat nutrition, to play

20:36

Russian roulette with pathogenicity and toxicity.

20:38

All of those things have been

20:40

given cover. Look,

20:44

look, who gave

20:46

us hydrogenated

20:48

vegetable oil? The

20:51

FDA. Right. The

20:54

government gave us hydrogenated vegetable oil. Who told

20:56

us not to eat margarine? Who told us

20:58

you shouldn't eat butter? It was the government.

21:00

And so for people that are like, but

21:02

the government is there to protect us, what

21:05

is your answer to that? The government

21:08

is there to concessionize and

21:10

ensure the longevity and profitability

21:13

of big ag. That's what

21:15

the government's there for. At this point,

21:18

everything starts sincerely, but the road to hell

21:20

is paid with sincerity, right? With

21:22

whatever sincere expectations. So I'm not going to

21:24

argue the sincerity of people. I

21:26

think almost everyone, people that

21:29

I disagree with are sincere. I'm

21:31

not going to argue that. But

21:33

what we have to look at are

21:36

our results. Where are we? Where

21:38

are we now? And

21:40

where we are now

21:42

is this completely dysfunctional

21:46

incentivized system for

21:48

everything that's wrong. Who

21:50

gave us a food pyramid that put that

21:53

put fruit loops and crackers on the foundation?

21:55

We now know that the food pyramid that

21:57

I grew up with in the nineties was

21:59

completely. bought and paid for by different food

22:01

groups. So when that food pyramid

22:03

came out in the 90s, you're

22:05

farming and doing things the lunatic farmer

22:07

way. When you saw that, did

22:09

you know this is bull? Oh, we knew it

22:11

was wrong day one. I mean, just

22:14

like when the government told us I

22:16

was taken to invited to free

22:18

dinners by US, I call it

22:21

the US Duh, to

22:23

teach us this new way of feeding cows. We got

22:25

this new way of feeding cows. Science

22:27

all agrees. We need to grind up

22:29

dead cows and feed dead cows to

22:31

cows. We can do it cheaper this

22:34

way. And so we were courted

22:36

and romanced by the experts

22:38

and the credentialed PhDs, post-hold

22:40

digger degrees of

22:43

how to feed cows, dead cows.

22:46

30 years later, we had bovine

22:48

spongiform encephalopathy, known as mad cow.

22:51

Now, I didn't buy, and I wasn't the only one,

22:53

there were plenty of us, I mean,

22:55

not enough of us obviously, but in

22:58

the lunatic fringe, there were many of us who

23:00

looked at that day one

23:03

and said, wait a minute, wait a minute, let's

23:05

look around the planet. Where does an

23:07

herbivore eat carrion? Can't

23:09

find it, doesn't exist. Now, we didn't know that

23:12

there would be mad cow. We just knew this.

23:16

Isn't natural. No, this is an

23:18

anti-ecological pattern, a template that

23:20

we don't see anywhere in nature. Same

23:23

with genetically modified organism, GMOs. Do you

23:25

trust GMOs? Not at all. No, they're

23:27

awful, okay? Because

23:30

they create beings, they

23:32

create life forms that

23:35

everything in nature tries

23:37

to make sure doesn't happen. Nature

23:40

doesn't let up a salmon cross with

23:42

a tomato plant. You know,

23:44

that would never happen. Listen, if

23:46

you looked out in your garden and you

23:48

saw a pig getting it on with a

23:50

green bean plant, you'd

23:54

say, whoa, something's wrong here, okay? Listen,

23:58

if the sexual plumbing doesn't matter, up?

24:01

Something ain't right, okay? And

24:03

GMO wades in

24:06

to something as special,

24:08

mysterious, and almost, you know,

24:11

divine, like DNA

24:14

and genetic and epigenetic structure and says, ah,

24:17

we can just, this is just a machine,

24:19

we can just pull it. And that's the

24:21

problem. Our

24:23

culture has embraced Greco-Roman Western

24:25

reductionist, linear, compartmentalized, disconnected,

24:27

mechanical view of the world

24:30

and essentially like the

24:32

movie Jurassic Park. Remember when

24:35

the journalist gets in the face of that scientist who's

24:37

euphoric, look what I've done, I've got these raptors, I've

24:39

got, you know, look, we did all this cool stuff.

24:41

And the journalist gets in his face, he says, while

24:44

the raptors are destroying the planet and they're getting ready

24:46

to, you know, take over the world. And the journalist

24:48

says, but just because we can, should we? That's

24:51

a powerful question. But, you know, they

24:53

say there's no evidence that it has,

24:55

you know, wreaked any havoc on human

24:57

health. There is so much evidence that

24:59

way it's unbelievable. It's unbelievable the mountain

25:01

of evidence. You know, we say, I'll,

25:03

I'll believe it when I see it.

25:06

That's not true. You'll see it when

25:09

you believe it. Because

25:12

your heart is such

25:14

a powerful subconscious paradigm, filter

25:18

for what your eyes can see. I mean,

25:21

my favorite example of that was when Chernobyl

25:23

blew. Chernobyl, the nuclear reactor.

25:26

And Moscow is calling the, whatever,

25:29

the control board. All right. The guys are

25:31

in there and the

25:33

graphite core is falling,

25:35

it's raining onto the lawn in

25:37

front of the control panel. Moscow

25:39

says, you know, is everything okay?

25:42

Yeah, everything's completely under control. It's

25:44

just fine. Those guys believe so

25:46

strongly in their, in

25:48

their, whatever, a crisis,

25:50

you know, mechanisms, their control

25:52

mechanisms that they, they could not even register

25:54

with them. They could not see, they could

25:56

not fathom that the thing could be, you

25:58

know, breaking up. And that's how

26:00

powerful paradigms are. And

26:03

we see it every day. Every

26:08

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26:10

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26:12

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26:28

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26:32

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26:34

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26:36

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26:39

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27:28

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27:30

indulge me for two seconds,

27:33

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27:35

bathroom, look at the ingredients

27:37

list of your tampons. If

27:39

you see any of these

27:41

words, titanium dioxide, rayon, fragrance,

27:43

or even super absorbent material,

27:45

ooh, bet that got your

27:48

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27:50

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27:54

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27:56

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28:29

As much as you hate government

28:32

bureaucrats, you really hate complacent Americans.

28:35

What are Americans complacent about

28:37

when it comes to our

28:39

food? They're complacent about, well,

28:41

about almost everything. But the

28:44

complacency is

28:46

essentially a lack of participation.

28:49

Listen, we have been told

28:51

now for decades, you don't need

28:54

to worry about your food. You just

28:56

watch the football game. You just book

28:58

your Caribbean cruise. You take the kiddos

29:01

to soccer games and

29:03

we'll take care of you. We'll give

29:05

you lunchables, hot pockets, squeezable Velveeta cheese.

29:08

We'll fix you TV dinners,

29:10

okay? And

29:14

you don't have to worry about this. You don't

29:16

have to garden. You don't have to cook. You

29:18

don't have to do anything. We'll take care of

29:20

you. And

29:22

boy, was the spring of 2020 a wakeup

29:26

call. Suddenly there's

29:28

empty store shelves. People are going

29:30

nuts. People showed up at our farm.

29:32

We had the food. No way. Wait, did you have

29:35

people really showing up here? Oh, we

29:37

sold six months. We sold half a year's worth

29:39

of food in six weeks. Were

29:42

your minds blown? Oh, our minds were absolutely. I mean, we'd

29:45

never see anything like it. We

29:47

thought it would be the beginning

29:49

of our ship coming in. We

29:52

were tickled. But we were in

29:56

shock like everybody else. So are people scared like showing up

29:59

here? Yes. at all hours or like what was

30:01

it like? Not at all hours, but during store

30:03

hours. But I had many conversations with the

30:05

people. I would have, I

30:07

have never thought about food. Never thought about food

30:09

until now. And now I'm suddenly realized, ooh, I

30:12

gotta think about food. Here's

30:14

the point. The point is for decades,

30:17

Americans were told, you don't have to

30:19

think about this, we'll take care of you. Suddenly 2020 came

30:22

and suddenly people realized, oh, wait

30:25

a minute, maybe all of

30:27

that nonthinking convenience that was supposed

30:29

to give me freedom? Freedom

30:32

from domestic culinary arts,

30:34

freedom from knowing my farmer,

30:36

freedom from knowing my food

30:39

chain really was a shackle

30:42

that shackled me to a

30:44

nefarious agenda. Yeah. And

30:46

suddenly those of us, I mean,

30:49

it wasn't a Bible for us. We've

30:51

got hundreds of quarts of stuff canned

30:53

in the basement. We've

30:56

got freezers full of meat. It

30:59

wasn't even a Bible for us. And

31:02

we realized that freedom, freedom

31:05

only comes when you participate.

31:08

And if you don't participate, you

31:10

don't get freedom. During the pandemic, did you at

31:12

all just think, let's just pop into the nearest Walmart.

31:14

Let me just see what it looks like in here.

31:16

What is going on? Did you look? Yeah,

31:19

well, I don't do any grocery shopping, but Teresa

31:21

does. And so she was coming

31:23

home. I mean, we don't buy meat or anything,

31:26

toilet paper and- Things

31:28

like that. And she came

31:30

home and she was telling me about this stuff.

31:32

She said, you gotta go see this. I mean,

31:34

we're not spring chickens and you never see it.

31:37

So I finally, one evening we were in there,

31:39

I said, let's swing by Kroger here and Kroger's

31:42

and go in and see. I went and

31:44

see. And I was,

31:46

what's the word, gobsmacked or whatever. I mean,

31:48

I'm looking at this meat counter and there's

31:50

nothing. Were you thinking the entire

31:52

food supply chain has been completely decimated?

31:55

Like, were you worried about that? I

31:57

wasn't worried. We got plenty of food. But the thing is,

31:59

is that- We learned from I had a rancher,

32:01

A.J. Richards on it. He talked about farmers like you

32:03

are the first people that are gonna

32:06

be, I mean, they're gonna come after you

32:08

and try to kill you for access to

32:10

your food if the food supply chain was

32:12

completely destroyed. Are you worried about that? No,

32:15

no, they won't be smart enough to get

32:17

here. We're too

32:19

far out. I mean, you know what you gotta get through to

32:21

get to us? We got a mountain

32:23

behind us, a river in front of us. We're

32:25

on a dirt road. No, I

32:28

mean, I don't wanna be cavalier about this, but

32:30

that doesn't concern me. But

32:32

you know, it's the complacency that's

32:35

the problem. And

32:37

so many people blame the farm, you

32:39

know, farmers shouldn't have

32:41

factory, they should make better food. They

32:44

shouldn't feed their animals antibiotics. They shouldn't,

32:46

you know, they, they, they, they, they.

32:48

No, no, farmers have always produced for

32:51

the market, always. And if

32:53

the market wants something different, farmers will do

32:55

something different. I mean, we live in a

32:57

time where people are saying defund this, defund

32:59

this, the vest from this. It's

33:02

time to defund Monsanto. It's time to defund

33:04

Tyson. It's time to defund Cargill. The only

33:06

reason they own the show is because people

33:08

go there and buy. You know, we have

33:10

the great American smoke out, you know, for

33:12

cigarettes, like the one day, you know, nobody

33:14

smokes. We could have, we could

33:17

have a one day American no fast food

33:19

out. Yeah. And if

33:21

we, if we did that for one day, two

33:23

days, the whole food system

33:26

would come to its knees. I love it.

33:28

It wouldn't take a law. It wouldn't take

33:30

a federal agency. It wouldn't take anything. All

33:32

it would take is a bunch of people

33:34

saying enough and

33:37

we're gonna, we're gonna change it. You know, all

33:39

of the, the new lingo, I mean, I grew

33:41

up, I'm a lot older than you are. I

33:44

grew up, there were so many words that

33:46

we use today that

33:49

we'd never heard growing up. Well, obviously non-GMO,

33:51

that didn't exist. That didn't exist. No.

33:55

Organic, probably not. No, no, no, it

33:57

didn't exist. But, but I'm thinking of

33:59

E. coli. Salmonella, Listeria. When

34:01

we have an E. coli breakout, is

34:03

that coming from farmers that are not

34:05

using a ton of chemicals like you,

34:08

or is it coming from big companies?

34:10

It always comes from big companies. It

34:12

always comes because that's where, listen, if

34:15

all you did was live in your toilet and

34:17

breathe in fecal particulate all day, you're

34:21

gonna be immunocompromised. And you're talking about

34:23

what, the animals that are living in

34:26

their own fields? Yes, in a factory

34:28

farm, in a concentrated animal feeding operation.

34:30

I'm also talking about plants that are

34:33

fumigated with, you know, aerial chemicals

34:35

and sprays and chemical fertilizers that

34:37

don't feed the soil biology. Because

34:39

people are always freaking out about

34:41

raw milk, but you are way

34:43

more likely to get sick from

34:45

a bagged salad than you are

34:47

raw milk, right? Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

34:49

And even meat, because salad

34:51

doesn't have a kill point. It's kept

34:54

chilled, damp, dark,

34:58

and not cooked. So there's no

35:00

kill step. Whereas at least meat, if

35:03

you do it to temperature, there's a kill step

35:05

for things like this. But what I'm getting at

35:08

is that all this new lexicon that

35:12

I've learned since I was 45, let's

35:14

say, okay? You know, E.

35:16

coli, salmonella, we didn't know those words when

35:18

we were kids. We didn't know avian influenza.

35:20

We didn't know food allergy. You know, if

35:23

you wanted to have a birthday party for

35:25

three-year-olds, the moms didn't spend 48 hours

35:27

before the party, calling around, finding what

35:29

they could serve. You just had a

35:32

party. Yeah, so how do you explain

35:34

that? Why do we have that explosion?

35:36

What that is, is a lexicon of

35:38

nature that has

35:40

been disrespected, dishonored, violated,

35:43

abused. I

35:45

mean, we can think of all sorts of things, but

35:49

completely disrespected and

35:51

it's on its knees. I'm talking about

35:53

the pigs, the cows, the chickens, the

35:55

tomato plants, the peppers, all

35:57

right? It's nature. its

36:00

nature on its knees, begging

36:02

us, screaming, enough! And

36:05

before the Industrial Revolution, did people say

36:07

things like, oh, I have some dairy-related

36:09

illness? No, no, no, no. There was none of

36:11

this. Like I say- So how?

36:13

Because that was unclean farming and practices

36:15

and how we distributed food. It was

36:18

all dirty and now we've advanced. So

36:20

how are people getting sick now if

36:22

they weren't before? Yeah, well, it's

36:24

because- I'm

36:26

being facetious. Yeah, there

36:29

are so many vulnerabilities,

36:32

risk points within the food

36:34

system. Like what? In 1946, the average morsel of food that

36:40

you ate today for dinner, the average morsel of

36:42

food traveled no more than 40 miles. In

36:45

1946, that's not that long

36:47

ago, okay? Now, the

36:49

average morsel of food travels 1,500 miles. So

36:53

when you have that level of

36:56

distance, warehousing, concentrated

36:58

processing, I mean, back

37:01

in those days, a big processing plant maybe

37:03

would do 100 beef in a day,

37:05

okay? Today, they

37:07

do 5,000 in a day. Why is that

37:09

bad because we're feeding more people? We're talking

37:11

about biology. Biology is not

37:14

mechanics. And scale

37:16

matters. Scale matters.

37:18

So here's a

37:20

great question back to you. I would ask, in

37:23

the spring of 2020, if

37:25

the US, instead of being fed by

37:28

say, a funnel of 300 mega

37:31

processing facilities, had

37:33

instead been fed by 300,000 community canneries,

37:40

abattoirs, processors, would we have had

37:42

a big hiccup in the food

37:44

system? No. Of course not.

37:46

Because people are all going to the same

37:48

couple stores in each town to get

37:50

all of their food. Absolutely, absolutely.

37:53

So when you have that level

37:55

of concentration, you have an aircraft

37:57

carrier. And when you have societal...

38:00

dysfunction. We'll

38:02

say rocky shoals on the beach. You

38:04

don't want to be in an aircraft carrier. You want to be

38:06

in a little speed boat. Okay. A nimble

38:08

little speed boat where you can navigate between the

38:10

things here. We own a little, a

38:12

little, a federal inspected slaughterhouse

38:14

up in Harrisonburg or co-own it. And

38:17

we, we hadn't, we didn't have a

38:19

bobble. Nobody lost work. We were just

38:21

cranking right along. Why? Well, because we

38:24

didn't have 5,000 people reporting to work,

38:26

but I can tell you every company

38:28

of any size in, in the food,

38:30

well, all of them, but I'll stay

38:32

with food, um, doubled

38:36

their HR departments or tripled. And every

38:38

CEO went to bed every night worried,

38:40

Oh, I wonder if, I wonder if,

38:42

you know, the employee in sector five

38:44

is going to sue me for not

38:46

having enough plexiglass up between him and

38:48

the guy and you know, those kinds

38:51

of things that they were, they were

38:53

absolutely paralyzed, uh, by that. And,

38:55

and, and of course, you know, we know

38:57

how many millions of chickens were thrown away,

39:00

pigs thrown away. Why? Because the processors,

39:02

you know, uh, couldn't get to it.

39:05

And, and so, so when you, when you

39:08

decentralized and you democratize

39:10

market access, you create

39:13

additional safety, stability and security within the food

39:15

system. Okay. But how can you say that

39:17

when we have huge food deserts in cities

39:20

where, you know, you have all these people

39:22

that don't have access to a local farmer,

39:24

and then, so what would your answer beat

39:26

to that? Oh, that's one of my favorite

39:28

ones. Almost

39:30

all urban areas, Detroit,

39:32

especially, and St. Louis

39:35

now have hundreds, thousands

39:37

of acres of vacant lots and

39:39

unused land. That's true. Just imagine

39:41

you're a single mom. You've

39:44

got three kids and you're in the inner

39:46

city and you're, you feel

39:48

stuck, but next door is

39:51

a vacant lot. Okay. And

39:54

there are thousands of them.

39:56

All right. There's a vacant lot. You say, you know what? I

39:59

could, I could put a, garden in there, I

40:01

could have a few chickens and rabbits, and

40:03

I could have a little farm in

40:06

that lot. And I could make chicken

40:09

pot pies for my

40:11

area. I had a poly-faced chicken pot pie

40:14

today at some restaurant in town. It was

40:16

awesome. Yeah, yeah. They are first class. So

40:18

you plant your garden, you get some chickens,

40:20

you get some rabbit, you start your little

40:23

farm, and your three kids are happy to

40:25

help, you know, etc. And so

40:27

comes time to finally you got enough, you know,

40:29

peas and carrots

40:31

and green meat, whatever, and the chickens are

40:34

grown, you can process those and you take them

40:36

up to your apartment and

40:38

you make some pot

40:40

pies. And you

40:43

walk down the hall and you

40:45

sell them. Within 24 hours, eight

40:47

bureaucrats are going to be knocking on your door.

40:50

Where's your business license? Where's your

40:52

HACCP plan? Hazardous Analysis Critical Control

40:54

Point. Where's your food inspection service?

40:56

Do you have a

40:58

separate toilet to use for your culinary business?

41:01

Do you have a fire extinguisher on the

41:03

wall? Is

41:05

your electrical up to business code? Are the

41:07

rasters of the building of a commercial nature

41:10

or just residential? Because they've got to be

41:12

stronger for a commercial than a residential.

41:15

It doesn't end, okay? It

41:17

goes, it goes, it goes. And guess what? You're

41:19

now out of business. Right. So there has to

41:21

be a reason why they do that to keep

41:23

us going to the big grocery stores instead, right?

41:25

No, no, no, no, no. See, that's where I

41:27

disagree with the conservatives. Okay. I

41:29

don't think there's a conspiratorial thing. Okay. I

41:32

actually believe they think

41:35

we're too stupid to make

41:37

our own decisions. And so

41:39

I have to protect you from your

41:41

stupidity. You don't know how to make

41:44

safe food. You don't know how

41:48

to not overrun your breaker, your switch,

41:50

your electrical system. You don't know how

41:52

to clean a toilet. The industry is

41:55

working at the lowest common denominator

41:57

of employee of information.

42:00

of ethics and

42:02

as a result, their

42:05

world, their whole paradigm

42:07

is industrial business that

42:10

is always cutting quarters. That's the world they live

42:12

in. And

42:14

they assume that you, as a

42:17

single mom with three kids and you're

42:19

wanting to do something in your community,

42:21

help your community, they think that

42:23

you think just like

42:25

the CEO of an industrial company

42:28

that's all about how do we sell

42:31

less and get more, how

42:33

do we satisfy our stakeholders,

42:35

our stockholders, and

42:38

make sure that we have our Philadelphia

42:40

attorneys on retainers so they protect us

42:42

from somebody that's upset. But I don't

42:44

think that way. I

42:46

love my customers. I mean, there are business

42:48

books out, how corporations hate their customers. I

42:50

mean, all you got to do is call

42:52

an airline and try to change a ticket

42:54

and you'll think they hate, they must hate

42:57

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42:59

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43:15

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43:18

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43:20

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43:22

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43:29

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44:30

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44:39

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44:43

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44:45

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the show notes for link. One

46:52

interesting thing, I got to tour your farm

46:54

today, which was so cool and you actually

46:57

told this huge group of people, you

46:59

can come tour my farm anytime

47:01

day or night, don't wake me up, but

47:03

you can poke around, you can have a

47:05

little flashlight, I have nothing

47:07

to hide. How many farmers would allow people

47:09

to do that? Not very many.

47:11

Why? Because there

47:13

is a complete breakdown of trust

47:17

between farmers and food

47:20

buyers. Farmers think

47:22

food buyers don't

47:24

respect them, are always trying

47:26

to get it cheaper, they don't understand I got

47:28

to go out in the rain and okay, you

47:30

got the farmer's thing. All right,

47:32

and the city person,

47:36

that guy's got 500 acres,

47:38

look at all that wealth. I mean,

47:40

so they've got this incredibly misperception,

47:43

jaundiced view of the farmer.

47:45

The farmer has a completely

47:49

antagonistic view of

47:52

the urban buyer. They don't

47:54

respect me, they don't trust me. They pass

47:56

the EPA, EPA is coming out here to tell me I

47:58

got to get my cows out of the water. Is

48:00

that right? Right. Okay, and

48:02

so you have this extremely antagonistic

48:04

view, whereas on our farm, we have

48:06

a relationship view. And

48:08

we view our even very

48:11

ignorant urban folks as

48:13

cheerleaders. They're rooting for

48:15

us. And so how can we

48:18

make their lives better? How can we make them healthier?

48:20

How can we make sure they never get

48:22

sick? 50% of all cases of

48:25

diarrhea in the US right now, 50%

48:27

of all cases are foodborne bacteria

48:29

pathogens, 50%. What's

48:33

the case of diarrhea? I don't know, we'll

48:35

go there. But if all those half the

48:37

cases of diarrhea were actually recorded or paid

48:41

for at the cash register, stuff

48:44

wouldn't be so cheap, okay? But

48:46

anyway, we're actually thinking about that. We're actually thinking,

48:48

how do we make sure that our people are

48:51

healthy and have enough and

48:54

we see them as our friends, not our enemies. That's

48:57

a pretty big kind of emotional

49:00

persona difference in the way we view,

49:04

and I would suggest small businesses

49:07

generally view their customers that way because we're

49:10

out here, we

49:13

don't get coverage in the Wall Street Journal.

49:15

We don't get, we

49:18

can't buy Super Bowl ads to

49:22

tell our story, I mean, it's too expensive. So

49:24

if somebody were to do what you invite the

49:26

public to do to you, poke around, see what

49:29

you can find, I don't care. If they were

49:31

to do that same thing to their favorite farm,

49:34

and I'm saying that in quotes, making their

49:36

favorite breakfast sausage links or frozen hamburger patties,

49:38

what is the type of stuff at these

49:40

farms that consumers would find? Because we don't

49:42

see our food being made, a lot of

49:44

us don't think about it. So the first

49:46

thing they would notice is they'd have to

49:48

put a clothespin on their nose because it

49:50

stinks. That was something I was gonna tell

49:52

you. The first thing I

49:54

noticed touring your farm today, and this has never happened to me

49:56

being on a farm in my life, it

49:59

didn't smell like. a

50:01

farm. Why? Because everything

50:03

is hygienic because we

50:05

move the animals around.

50:07

They're not in one

50:09

place. You didn't see

50:11

moonscapes. You didn't see,

50:14

you know, Paul's

50:16

of fecal particulate.

50:18

The movement is

50:20

what creates the cleanliness.

50:23

So a stinky farm is actually

50:25

a red flag. If a farm

50:27

is not aesthetically and aromatically, sensually

50:30

romantic, it's a bad farm. So

50:33

if you go visit with your kiddos and

50:36

they're saying, oh, mommy, this thing

50:38

stinks or, oh, that's ugly or

50:40

whatever. It should be beautiful.

50:43

It should smell great. Those

50:46

are benchmarks. Now, when Michael Pollan wrote Omnivore's

50:49

Dilemma, he noted

50:51

that if all of our concentrated

50:53

animal feeding operations, factory farms, had

50:55

glass walls, that would fundamentally

50:58

change food in America. And he's exactly right.

51:00

You don't have to be a rocket scientist

51:03

for those, for your senses to,

51:05

you know, to speak to you that way. For

51:07

a conservative who, you know,

51:09

they always say we think with our brains, not our heart.

51:13

And maybe it's hard for them to be like all

51:15

like lovey dovey about like, oh, the animals are being

51:18

kind of mistreated, like whatever, they're animals, we eat them.

51:20

I mean, what else would you

51:22

tell them about the way these factory farms

51:24

are run that should shake them? Maybe it's

51:26

the quality of the food, for example. Does

51:29

the habitat respect and honor the

51:31

physiological distinctiveness of the animal

51:33

or plant? In other

51:35

words, the pigness of the pig, the chickeness

51:38

of the chicken, the tomato-ness of the tomato. And,

51:43

you know, think about that animal, all

51:46

of its social, physiological,

51:48

emotional desires. Would

51:52

you want to live that way? You know,

51:54

one of my favorite little interchanges is we had

51:57

a new chef in

51:59

a restaurant. customer. And he

52:02

was, you know, 28, 29, he was young and,

52:04

you know, just a gung-ho guy. He said, I want to come

52:06

out. Can I come out and visit? Absolutely. Come on. So it

52:08

took you up to see the, he was using a lot of

52:10

pork in the restaurant. He said, you want to see the pigs?

52:12

Yeah, I want to see the pigs. So we go up there

52:14

to the pigs and, and

52:17

he's standing there looking at these pigs, you know, they're out

52:19

in this, this pasture paddock, you know, and they're, of course,

52:21

happy as can be. They're eating some grass and they're,

52:24

you know, rubbing on the tree

52:26

and different things. And he just stands there,

52:28

kind of mesmerized for a little bit. And

52:30

he said, you know, I've

52:32

cooked a lot of pork and I've broken down a lot

52:34

of carcasses, but I've never seen a live pig in

52:37

my life. Never seen one. He said, but I

52:40

just have this thing. I think, I

52:43

think if I was a pig, I'd want to

52:45

live like this. And, and

52:47

that says it all. That says all. If you go

52:49

visit and you get this sense,

52:51

you know, I don't think I like to live

52:54

like that, but basically what you saw were, was

52:56

contentment. There

52:58

are some rabbits in cages. Why is

53:01

that? Yeah. So those

53:03

rabbits, the thing about

53:05

rabbits is they're extremely

53:07

prone to coccyteosis. And

53:10

if you think about rabbits in the wild, they're

53:13

way spread out. You know, you

53:15

don't, you don't see, you don't

53:18

see 10 rabbits together. You see

53:20

two at the most. When you

53:22

start raising rabbits, you've got to

53:24

be really, really careful about sanitation

53:27

as they become proximate. And

53:30

so I am the first to admit that

53:32

the rabbits are the closest we come

53:35

to whatever, you know, to

53:37

pushing the envelope, but those were

53:39

regenerative standards. Well, just to, to,

53:41

to allowing the rabbit to fully

53:43

express his rabbit, rabbitness. Okay. But

53:45

those rabbits, that

53:47

was Daniel, our son. That was

53:49

his entrance into farming. He was eight.

53:52

He wanted to raise something himself. So

53:54

he's had the rabbits, you know, for now, whatever, 30,

53:56

whatever, 34 years. And

54:01

so I don't apologize for

54:05

him having

54:08

an opportunity as an entrepreneur to

54:10

start in that. But I mean, that was years ago

54:12

because he's an adult. It's a long time ago. We

54:15

are very quick to admit that the rabbits pushed the

54:17

envelope even for us, but

54:20

they provided... They were Daniel's first

54:23

entrepreneurial endeavor. Right. And created an

54:25

interest in him in the farm.

54:28

You could argue, well, maybe rabbits shouldn't

54:30

even be raised commercially like

54:32

this. You could argue that. And

54:35

I wouldn't die on that hill.

54:37

All I know is people

54:39

eat rabbits. Most of the rabbits

54:41

are raised terribly. These rabbits have

54:44

been genetically selected by Daniel for forage

54:46

base. They eat a lot of forage.

54:49

Most commercial rabbitries never feed any forage to

54:51

their rabbits. When it comes to big food,

54:54

what does the left get wrong, but then what does the

54:56

right get wrong? I think the

54:58

political left and right. Well, what the

55:01

left gets wrong is thinking that the

55:03

only way to have safe food is

55:06

if a bureaucrat puts a stamp of approval

55:08

on it. The

55:10

problem with the conservatives is

55:14

that they essentially believe

55:19

that big business is

55:21

the same as small business. It's

55:24

a trust, big

55:26

business, but as we

55:29

move into a fascist state,

55:31

and I'm saying that judiciously, where

55:34

you have... How many

55:36

times have you heard public-private partnerships?

55:38

Public-private... Let me tell you, when you

55:41

have public-private partnerships, guess

55:44

who wins? The big guys. Guess

55:46

who loses? The little guys. And

55:49

so I'm not a fan of public-private... That

55:51

sounds like fascism to me. That's where

55:54

you have government-controlled business. I would

55:56

agree that conservatives a few decades

55:58

ago definitely... sucked up

56:00

to big business. We

56:03

were absolutely fawning over, you

56:05

know, protecting corporations and

56:08

all this. But I do feel

56:10

like in the last eight

56:13

or so years, we have

56:15

shifted. Now I feel like it's more

56:17

the left that is obsessed with big

56:19

business and they also run everything, Apple,

56:22

Amazon, all of these big things.

56:24

And now I feel like it's the conservatives who are

56:26

fighting back against big tech and all

56:28

these huge corporations. Yes, I couldn't agree

56:30

more. So what conservatives need to do is

56:33

they need, they need a shot of

56:37

emotional empowerment to

56:40

realize how important

56:42

they are. If conservatives quit

56:45

going to McDonald's, if

56:47

conservatives quit buying, you

56:50

know, Tyson chicken already breaded with a pop-up

56:53

thermometer in it. The margins are so

56:55

tiny in the industrial system, a

56:57

shift of 5% would bring the

56:59

food system to its knees. Don't you think

57:02

that in the last couple of

57:04

years, the organic crunchy community has

57:06

seen an explosion amongst conservatives? Yes,

57:09

yes, no question. And it was

57:11

historically more of a liberal group, I think that cared

57:13

about that kind of stuff. Absolutely. So

57:15

what we've seen are the shifts.

57:17

So in the sixties, let's take

57:19

homeschooling, let's start with homeschooling. In

57:21

the sixties and seventies, if

57:23

I said I was a homeschooler, I

57:26

was a liberal. Yes. I

57:28

was a hippie, you know, beaded, bearded,

57:30

braless. You know, I didn't want the kids

57:32

to hear the devotional prayer over the PA

57:34

school system. I didn't want them to recite

57:36

the pellet, I didn't want them to have

57:38

that institutional regimentation come 1990s, late 1990s, with

57:43

homeschool legal defense fund and that sort of

57:45

thing. Today, today, if

57:47

I say I'm a homeschooler, 95%

57:50

chance I'm a conservative. Yes. And

57:52

so what happened was when the 10 commandments came

57:54

down, prayer went out of the school and we

57:57

started seeing this attack on. And

58:00

then you've got, of course, the sexual, the sexual

58:02

revolution, the drugs, all that stuff. The

58:06

conservative mama woke up,

58:09

okay, and said, whoa, whoa, this is not

58:11

what we signed up for. This is not

58:13

the school I went to. The same thing

58:15

has happened now with the Homestead Movement. In

58:18

the 70s, it was all the

58:21

back to the land, Mother Earth News, it

58:23

was a very liberal movement, gaya, creation worship,

58:25

all that. If you were a homesteader in

58:27

1970, you

58:29

were a liberal, you know, you

58:32

wore a peace sign, you, you know, right,

58:34

okay. Come

58:37

to today, I'm

58:40

a homesteader, 95% chance. You

58:42

go to church, you homeschool your kids, you

58:44

know, and you relate the Pledge

58:46

of Allegiance, and you love America. Why that

58:48

shift? What is responsible for that? I

58:51

think, you know, conservatives are slower

58:53

to change. I think generally conservatives,

58:55

look, we just go about our day, we

58:57

go about our work. Liberals are the artists, right? So

59:00

they're creating the trends. They're the activists. Yes, they're creating

59:02

the trends. They're the ones,

59:04

they're the ones that get frustrated

59:06

faster. They're the ones that actually

59:09

see through, you know, the

59:13

CIA, the war machine, the, you know, that sort

59:15

of thing. They used to, now they love it.

59:18

Yeah, that was the biggest thing, the

59:20

most frustrating thing for me in 2020

59:25

was how all my organic

59:28

friends crucified

59:30

me for being opposed

59:33

to Fauci. Yeah. And

59:35

I'm saying, what is it with you people? You

59:37

know, you have been Mavericks, you've been opposed to

59:39

the government, you've been opposed to the defense budget,

59:41

you've been opposed to the USDA, you've been opposed

59:43

to chemicals, everything that the

59:46

pharmaceuticals, you've said the pharmaceutical people are

59:48

bad, you know, all this, and suddenly

59:50

Fauci steps up and you're bowing. What

59:52

was their reasoning? What was their defense? For

59:55

why they agreed with that, but none of these other

59:57

things historically. I think they were driven by

59:59

fear. I think they are

1:00:01

living under a delusional segregation

1:00:04

like a lot of people. Who doesn't want to

1:00:06

have healthy kids? Who don't

1:00:08

want to have healthy, happy families? Who

1:00:11

doesn't want to have thriving communities? Who

1:00:13

doesn't want to have a sound dollar?

1:00:16

I mean, we all agree on that. What

1:00:20

we disagree on is how to get there. And

1:00:22

I think the fundamental difference between the liberal and

1:00:24

conservative is the liberal does

1:00:27

not have an appreciation for the

1:00:33

well, for lack of the evil, sinfulness,

1:00:35

whatever of government. Somehow

1:00:37

they think that government is

1:00:41

purer, more

1:00:44

righteous than the average person. When

1:00:47

actually the government's usually way worse

1:00:49

than the average person. The conservative

1:00:52

thinks the average person is

1:00:54

much better than the government. And

1:00:57

so they're more

1:01:00

prone to say, well, my

1:01:03

neighbor, factory farmer, he's

1:01:05

a good guy. He's

1:01:07

a good guy. And so I'm sure

1:01:09

he wouldn't do anything that would hurt the

1:01:11

land or hurt. He loves his farm. He

1:01:13

loves the soil. He likes worms. And so

1:01:17

they're very dismissive of

1:01:20

the concerns that a liberal would bring up. I

1:01:22

think you nailed that. So here's an interesting question,

1:01:24

kind of a drug dealer versus addict situation. But

1:01:26

when it comes to our food, are

1:01:28

we poisoning ourselves or is the

1:01:30

government poisoning us? Oh,

1:01:32

we're poisoning ourselves. But

1:01:34

the government, the government doesn't make you eat anything. Government

1:01:37

doesn't tell me what to eat. So

1:01:39

we need to get off of this, this victim

1:01:42

kick. Look, if you're disease,

1:01:44

sick, whatever, there's

1:01:46

a reason for that. And it's not because there

1:01:48

are little fairies

1:01:50

out here. Oh, I think I'm going to pick on

1:01:52

John today. Well, I think I'm going to pick on my...

1:01:55

No, no. I mean, at church, it

1:01:57

fries me. You get up prayer time and

1:01:59

everybody's... I pray for this, pray for this.

1:02:01

You go to home and you open up

1:02:03

the refrigerator and it's full of Hot Pockets,

1:02:05

Lunchables, Coca Cola, Sprite, and

1:02:07

Velveeta cheese. You're saying,

1:02:09

whoa, no wonder you're sick, okay?

1:02:12

This is a no-brainer, all right?

1:02:15

And we should be connecting

1:02:17

those dots. We should be connecting, I mean, you wouldn't

1:02:19

put junk fuel in your car, but

1:02:22

we put junk fuel in our bodies and think, okay,

1:02:24

the doctor's gonna take care of me. We have to

1:02:26

take personal responsibility for where

1:02:28

we are. And

1:02:31

this is what frustrates me about conservatives,

1:02:33

is that if

1:02:35

anybody wants to preserve

1:02:38

personal freedom, autonomy, and

1:02:42

personal responsibility, it

1:02:44

should be the conservatives. One

1:02:47

of the things that's interesting in our culture right now is

1:02:50

as the government has taken over

1:02:53

healthcare, the

1:02:56

philosophy of that is that society owns you,

1:02:58

owns me. In

1:03:03

other words, my body is an

1:03:07

asset or a liability to

1:03:09

society which is paying to

1:03:12

cure my ills. As

1:03:16

soon as we posit government

1:03:19

financial intervention in

1:03:23

our healthcare, we create

1:03:25

this tangled web of

1:03:29

justified societal interest in how

1:03:31

you treat your body. So

1:03:36

now you have to wear a motorcycle helmet.

1:03:38

You have to put on a seat belt. You have to have

1:03:40

your child in a certain, child restraint seat.

1:03:43

And look, I don't want brain injuries and I don't

1:03:45

want, all right, but as soon

1:03:47

as you head down that

1:03:49

society is responsible for your health,

1:03:52

guess what? I have an economic incentive

1:03:54

to make sure that you don't ingest

1:03:57

or do something. that

1:04:00

I would consider injurious.

1:04:04

And so raw milk, uninspected

1:04:07

chicken, unvaccinated

1:04:09

cows. I mean, you can

1:04:11

go down the list. And

1:04:15

so prohibition, which was led

1:04:17

by conservatives, okay,

1:04:21

did our country a huge disfavor

1:04:23

because it posited for

1:04:25

the culture, the government has a right to

1:04:28

tell me what to eat

1:04:30

and drink. I have some questions for you

1:04:32

on this because this is so interesting. You're

1:04:34

a libertarian who is against big food and

1:04:36

I'm a conservative who's against big food. My

1:04:38

thing is there are processed

1:04:41

food ingredients that we know cause

1:04:43

cancer, that we know are irritating

1:04:45

kids that have autism and ADHD.

1:04:48

We know that it is straight up poison, it's not

1:04:50

food. Are you then

1:04:52

against as a libertarian saying to these food

1:04:54

companies, you are not allowed to put these

1:04:56

ingredients in food? Yes, I am against that.

1:04:58

Here's why. How do

1:05:00

you create a person who's

1:05:02

responsible? You

1:05:05

create a person who was responsible by

1:05:07

making them liable for their decisions.

1:05:11

You're raising a child. How do you create

1:05:15

discernment? How do you create in

1:05:17

a person the ability

1:05:19

to make wise decisions? Right, but Joel,

1:05:21

we've been doing that for 50 years.

1:05:23

We're sicker, fatter. No, no, no, no,

1:05:25

no, we haven't, we haven't. We have

1:05:27

had government incentivizing hybrid corn, chemical

1:05:30

fertilizer, DDT, name it,

1:05:33

GMOs. The

1:05:35

government, look, since

1:05:37

Abraham Lincoln, okay, worst

1:05:40

president in the country, Abraham

1:05:42

Lincoln gave us the USDA

1:05:45

because he didn't think farmers were

1:05:47

smart enough to make their decisions.

1:05:49

And the second Abraham Lincoln started

1:05:51

the USDA, this started a

1:05:54

government agenda,

1:05:57

an intervention into the system.

1:06:00

Okay, and as soon as you have

1:06:02

that what you have now are a

1:06:04

bunch of stupid farmers who just do

1:06:06

whatever the government says The way you

1:06:08

create duplicitous people is by taking away

1:06:10

decision-making responsibility But what I'm saying is

1:06:12

don't we have evidence that people there

1:06:14

are people that are just incapable of

1:06:17

making these good decisions Because the thing

1:06:19

is that the sicker this generation gets

1:06:21

who's paying for them as they get

1:06:23

old you won't be here I will

1:06:25

and I'm gonna have to be dealing

1:06:27

with all these in my in my

1:06:29

world in my world We wouldn't have

1:06:31

any government involvement in health care either,

1:06:33

right? None none. Okay now

1:06:36

think about this if There

1:06:38

is no safety net

1:06:40

safety net if there is no safety

1:06:42

net if I if I Have

1:06:45

a mental breakdown if I have a physical breakdown

1:06:47

if I agree if there's no safety net Guess

1:06:50

who's gonna start being careful about

1:06:52

how I live I am Okay.

1:06:55

Yeah, cuz there's no safety net. All

1:06:57

right, and so you can't have a

1:07:01

Deregulation on one hand but have

1:07:04

intervention on the other so anybody

1:07:06

that knows me knows that I'm

1:07:08

for legalization of all drugs All

1:07:10

drugs fentanyl cocaine name it. All right, but

1:07:13

there's also no safety net you want to

1:07:15

go commit suicide commit suicide Jump

1:07:17

off the bridge. Okay with me, you know, it reduces a

1:07:20

gene pool. I mean we call out the junk But

1:07:23

the thing is there there is

1:07:25

no perfect system this side of

1:07:27

eternity We're always choosing between what's

1:07:29

the lesser of evils? We're

1:07:32

humans were We're not inherently

1:07:34

good. I mean, that's my faith that you

1:07:36

know, I don't believe that we are inherently

1:07:38

good Yeah, and I agree with that. Okay.

1:07:40

All right in my view if you say

1:07:42

that the the propensity

1:07:44

of humanity is Toward

1:07:46

evil toward greed toward selfishness toward. Okay,

1:07:49

let's assume that Then

1:07:52

the only question is Do

1:07:55

we spread it spread it out

1:07:57

among everybody's decisions or do we

1:07:59

concentrate? it over

1:08:01

here in the government. That's the

1:08:03

only question. I love it. One

1:08:09

of my favorite parts of visiting Poly Face

1:08:11

Farm was the farm store there. Mostly stuff

1:08:13

in there from Joel's Farm, but also some

1:08:15

other curated items from brands and cleaned food

1:08:18

companies that he trusts. Well, I

1:08:20

don't have a store, at least yet,

1:08:22

but I do have a podcast and

1:08:24

I really do my best to curate

1:08:26

a little store right here for you

1:08:28

of brands that you know I trust,

1:08:30

especially food brands. And Squeeze Juice is

1:08:32

one of them. Squeeze Juice is the

1:08:35

name of the juice bottled on a

1:08:37

small family farm in California. 100% juice,

1:08:40

no added sugar, no water, strange

1:08:42

acids or syrups, no artificial dyes,

1:08:45

and no GMOs. I love their

1:08:47

seven-ounce self-serve bottles, perfect for kids,

1:08:50

or Alex Clark, same, same. But

1:08:52

there are 32 fluid-ounce

1:08:54

ones also, if you want the

1:08:56

big hunker. And the green cucumber

1:08:59

lemonade has four ingredients, pomegranate, lemon,

1:09:01

cucumber, and spinach. It's that simple

1:09:03

with Squeeze Juice. Antioxidant lemonades at

1:09:05

the pool or park this summer.

1:09:08

Take a sip. Shop.squeezejuice.com. Use code

1:09:10

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1:09:13

That's shop.squeezedjuice.com with code

1:09:15

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1:09:17

It is Squeeze Fresh. It is shipped cold, and

1:09:20

it goes straight to you. Link in the show

1:09:22

notes. We're under attack spiritually,

1:09:24

physically, and emotionally. You can't get complacent,

1:09:26

and you must be diligent. As you

1:09:28

learn more this episode about what goes

1:09:31

in your body, make sure not to

1:09:33

neglect what is around your body as

1:09:35

much as you can. Chemicals in your

1:09:37

environment that are being absorbed through skin

1:09:39

and the air around you are just

1:09:41

as important. Allevia. Prebiotic organic non-toxic body

1:09:43

wash is the only body wash I

1:09:45

will use. I bring it everywhere in

1:09:47

hotels. I'll use it in place of

1:09:50

hand soap. At home, I have the

1:09:52

literal Allevia hand soap. Went through a

1:09:54

period of trying all the body washes

1:09:56

at Whole Foods. Okay. They were burn

1:10:00

my bottom, don't ask, or

1:10:03

they just simply weren't as non-toxic

1:10:05

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1:10:25

body wash. Want to talk

1:10:27

about secondhand embarrassment? Imagine hosting

1:10:30

a 4th of July party next week and grilling

1:10:32

a bunch of meat from God knows what country.

1:10:34

If you wait last minute and you don't plan

1:10:36

out your meat, you're going to end up with

1:10:38

grocery store meat. And guess what? I don't know

1:10:40

where the heck that meat is coming from, but

1:10:42

almost none of it is coming from the USA.

1:10:45

You're like, what do you mean, Alex? The package

1:10:47

says, made in the USA. They

1:10:49

can put that label on it thanks to

1:10:51

our corrupt food laws saying

1:10:53

that it was made in the USA when all

1:10:55

they did was ship it in from somewhere else

1:10:57

pumped with who knows what hormones and chemicals. And

1:10:59

then if it was put in a package in

1:11:02

the United States, well, then it's made in the

1:11:04

USA. This is what Joel is talking about.

1:11:06

This is what Congressman Thomas Massey talks about. This

1:11:08

stuff is garbage. Here's the deal. Don't

1:11:11

trust anything in the grocery store and do not

1:11:13

plan out what you're going to be grilling next

1:11:15

week for the 4th of July or just the

1:11:17

summer period without going to Good Ranchers. No

1:11:20

mystery meat on America's birthday, please and thanks. Place

1:11:22

your 4th of July grill and box order from

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1:11:26

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1:11:28

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1:11:39

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1:11:43

raised like Joel does. No antibiotics, no

1:11:45

added hormones. Good Ranchers will be

1:11:47

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1:12:03

What did you think about the illegal immigrants

1:12:05

being housed in New York City complaining about

1:12:07

the food that we're giving them? They said,

1:12:09

this is disgusting. This is poison slop that

1:12:11

you're feeding us. Yeah. Every

1:12:16

time I travel or meet somebody

1:12:18

from a foreign country, I mean, I just had a

1:12:20

guy from Romania here the other day. The

1:12:24

single most common first complaint they

1:12:26

have about America is I

1:12:28

can't find geese and food. The Olympics are

1:12:30

coming up. Okay. This summer, we got

1:12:32

the Olympics. And if you're

1:12:35

a red blooded American, and if you love this country

1:12:37

at all, you want to have the best basketball team.

1:12:39

You want to have the best, you know, we want

1:12:42

Simone Biles to go win the gold medal again in

1:12:44

gymnastics. All right. You know, we're pulling, we, we love

1:12:46

that as Americans, you know, I get chill. But I

1:12:48

mean, okay. I mean, I want to have the best.

1:12:52

There's a place that America is number one. That

1:12:55

is not a place that you want to be.

1:12:57

Number one, we are number

1:12:59

one in the world in

1:13:01

non-infectious chronic morbidity. Yes. Number

1:13:04

one, not number two. I

1:13:06

mean, think about the starving kids in Senegal.

1:13:08

Think about the people living

1:13:10

on the beach when the typhoon hits

1:13:12

Bangladesh. I mean, take, take the poorest,

1:13:15

you know, toughest situation

1:13:17

in the world. We're,

1:13:20

we're number one non-infectious. Why?

1:13:23

Well, we invented hydrogenated

1:13:25

vegetable oil. We invented high fructose

1:13:27

corn syrup. We invented monosodium glutamate.

1:13:29

In 1940, the U S used

1:13:32

1 million pounds of monosodium glutamate.

1:13:34

Today we're 300 million pounds. Okay.

1:13:38

It's a known carcinogen. It's all sorts

1:13:40

of things. Okay. Uh, we invented McDonald's.

1:13:43

We, all right. You go down

1:13:46

the line. All right. We invented

1:13:48

all these things. GMOs. Okay. DDT,

1:13:50

um, Agent Orange. Okay. We invented

1:13:53

these things. There is a reason

1:13:56

why we are number one in the

1:13:58

world. That is not a. place that

1:14:01

you want to be. And

1:14:03

so a thinking person would say, well,

1:14:06

man, I don't want to be number

1:14:08

one in non-infectious disease, morbidity. Uh,

1:14:11

what, what can we do to change it? And,

1:14:14

and I mean, it's not just food.

1:14:16

It's lifestyle. There's other things. Okay. I

1:14:19

was just in, um, in

1:14:22

Hungary and Austria. And,

1:14:25

um, I

1:14:28

talked to a guy from

1:14:31

North Korea. He just

1:14:33

spent 20 years. Um, he

1:14:35

was a vet and he goes

1:14:37

into North Korea for 20 years, like a month

1:14:39

at a time to help North Korea. And

1:14:42

he said, you would not believe

1:14:44

how strong the family is in

1:14:46

North Korea. Why? Cause they don't

1:14:48

have Medicare. They don't have Medicaid.

1:14:51

They don't have nursing homes. They

1:14:53

don't have healthcare. The

1:14:55

only thing they got is family.

1:14:57

Well here, you know, parents

1:15:00

don't even know their kids are taking

1:15:02

fentanyl. You

1:15:04

know, the average middle schooler is on screen

1:15:06

time, seven to 10 hours a day. The

1:15:08

average American male between 25 and 35 is

1:15:10

spending 20 hours a week playing

1:15:13

video games, males, 25, 35

1:15:16

most virile time of a male's life. Playing

1:15:19

20 hours a week of

1:15:21

video games. We, we are,

1:15:24

we are disintegrating. We're disintegrating

1:15:26

as a culture. I

1:15:28

love this country, you know, but, but,

1:15:32

you know, we're going the way of other,

1:15:34

all other empires, 25 empires in the past,

1:15:36

25 civilizations. Every one of them has

1:15:38

gone the very path, you know, high taxes,

1:15:41

high regulations, bureaucracy, a breakdown of moral, moral

1:15:43

codes, breakdown of the family and

1:15:46

breakdown of the food. You said something really interesting back

1:15:48

in 2006. You were predicting

1:15:51

where we were going to be as a country

1:15:53

in the future. And you were saying that we

1:15:55

were complacent. We didn't care where our food came

1:15:57

from and that we were becoming. so

1:16:00

digitalized that we were never moving. And so the

1:16:02

combination of never moving and then eating this poison

1:16:04

food, that we would be so sick and that

1:16:06

we would be exposed to new diseases and we

1:16:08

would be the weakest that we've ever been in

1:16:10

order to fight them. How many people have an

1:16:13

immuno, some sort of

1:16:15

immuno something, immunodeficiency?

1:16:20

Almost everybody knows somebody. And

1:16:22

again, there again,

1:16:25

immunological dysfunction. We

1:16:27

never heard anything like that when I was a kid. Nobody

1:16:30

had an immunological problem. Nobody was

1:16:32

allergic to gluten. Nobody, you know,

1:16:35

nobody, all this stuff. Listen,

1:16:37

you cannot abuse

1:16:39

and disrespect nature as profoundly

1:16:42

as we have or

1:16:44

abdicate your responsibility to steward it

1:16:46

as profoundly as we have and

1:16:50

have authentic life.

1:16:54

Is organic a scam? Yeah, I

1:16:57

think in general. So when we

1:16:59

go to Whole Foods and we pick up

1:17:01

something that says USDA organic or whatever, it

1:17:03

may not even really be? It doesn't speak

1:17:05

to many of the nuances. Okay, like what?

1:17:07

Okay, let's say you're gonna grow organic carrots.

1:17:10

All right, so that

1:17:12

means you can't use herbicides. So

1:17:16

you got weeds. All right, so

1:17:18

you could mulch. You

1:17:20

could cultivate tillage, which destroys

1:17:22

earthworms. You could hand

1:17:25

weed. You could use a flamethrower. You

1:17:27

could use an organic oil

1:17:30

emulsifier, an organic herbicide,

1:17:32

if you will. All

1:17:35

right, so that's just weeds. Let's talk about fertilizer.

1:17:38

You can keep them fertile by

1:17:40

bringing in carbon. You

1:17:43

could make your own compost.

1:17:45

You could buy fish emulsion

1:17:47

from Japanese drag

1:17:49

nets to spray fish

1:17:51

emulsion. You see where I'm

1:17:54

going with this? There are a

1:17:56

tremendous number of nuances that

1:17:58

you or I might, if we... Ooh, really? You can

1:18:01

do, you know, I mean, uh, uh, 95%

1:18:05

of the organic certified chicken in America is

1:18:07

raised in a, in a confinement house. Okay.

1:18:09

So if you are somebody who is like,

1:18:11

I have zero options. The only place I

1:18:13

can get a carrot is at the store

1:18:15

and their choices, non organic or organic. What

1:18:17

would you choose? That's not your only choice.

1:18:19

Okay. You've got tons of choices.

1:18:21

You've got local farms and we now have

1:18:24

more local farms, more local options we've ever

1:18:26

had. Farmers markets. I mean, the, the, farmer's

1:18:28

market top three questions. You should ask a

1:18:30

farmer to make sure it's actually organic. Well,

1:18:33

number one, ask him if you can come for

1:18:35

a visit. If he, him hauls around, he's

1:18:37

not your guy or gal. Okay. So

1:18:39

they've got to be transparent. They got to be open to the

1:18:42

public. They've got it. They've got to say, yes, we'd love for

1:18:44

you to come. Just tell me when, and we're, you know, we're

1:18:46

going to come. Um, so number one,

1:18:48

ask for a visit. Number two, what do you use

1:18:50

for fertility? I

1:18:52

want to hear the word compost somewhere and

1:18:54

what's the ingredients in the, where'd you get

1:18:56

the compost? What's the, what's the provenance of

1:18:58

the compost? And then number

1:19:00

three, do you integrate

1:19:03

animals and plants together

1:19:05

or, or are you,

1:19:07

are you just plants, no animals, uh,

1:19:10

because animals are kind of everywhere or

1:19:12

they should be of some,

1:19:14

you know, some ilk. Uh,

1:19:16

so, you know, those, those are just a couple

1:19:18

of things that you could ask, but you know,

1:19:21

I've always said when, when organic certification first came

1:19:23

in, I was a president of the Virginia biological

1:19:25

farmers association, which was the first certifying agency in

1:19:27

Virginia. And I was very, very opposed to it

1:19:29

because I just didn't want the government. I mean,

1:19:31

I said, look, we we've been saying the government,

1:19:33

you can't trust the government forever. I mean, all

1:19:35

of us that were in this movement can't trust

1:19:37

the government can't trust the USDA. And now we're

1:19:39

asking them to police us. Really? I mean, it's

1:19:41

like the Fox guarding the hen house. And

1:19:43

I said, at the time, I said, what we

1:19:45

need to certify is the magazine

1:19:47

rack by the toilet. Cause

1:19:50

what we're really trying to certify is

1:19:52

a worldview, a mindset. What do you think? What's,

1:19:54

what's your values? It's not, you know, if you

1:19:57

check some boxes, uh, it's, it's what

1:19:59

do you believe? What do you think and you can

1:20:01

find that in a magazine rack next to the toilet?

1:20:03

Yeah, all right And so that's kind

1:20:05

of where I was but instead it came to

1:20:07

be this, you know this bean counter thing and

1:20:09

a check boxes and it Yeah,

1:20:12

I mean now that there were the only country

1:20:14

in the world right now We're the only one

1:20:17

in the country in the world that certifies organic

1:20:20

Hydroponic vegetables, what's that

1:20:22

mean? That means they're grown without any

1:20:24

soil. Is that good for a vegetable? No a terrestrial

1:20:28

terrestrial plant needs

1:20:31

soil to get the full panoply

1:20:33

of Actin, you

1:20:35

know microbes and bacteria and enzymes all the stuff that

1:20:38

needs to go into the plant And

1:20:40

so this is basically IV plants. Yeah,

1:20:42

we look crazy We look crazy when

1:20:45

people say, you know all this like regenerative farming

1:20:47

stuff is so great But you'll never be able

1:20:49

to feed the world people will starve if we

1:20:51

were to farm all if we were to transition

1:20:53

all American Farms to this way. What's your response?

1:20:55

Oh, that's one of my favorite and it's one

1:20:57

of the most common questions Because

1:21:00

ultimately if this can't feed the world then what

1:21:02

are we what are we talking about? All right

1:21:04

And so the first thing you got to understand

1:21:06

is that 500 years ago the US produced more

1:21:09

food I mean North America produced more food 500

1:21:11

years ago than it does today That's

1:21:13

the first thing to realize okay now wasn't all

1:21:16

eaten by people There were

1:21:18

you know a couple million bison there were two

1:21:20

million wolves that needed 20 pounds of meat a

1:21:22

day There were you know flocks of birds so

1:21:24

big it blocked out the Sun for three days

1:21:26

There were 200 million beavers that ate more vegetables

1:21:28

than all the humans in North America so,

1:21:31

you know, it wasn't all eaten by humans, but But

1:21:34

the fact is there was more food produced

1:21:36

in North America 500 years

1:21:38

ago than is produced here today So

1:21:40

who's kidding who? okay, and

1:21:44

even with all of our hybrids and

1:21:46

green and all this stuff here the

1:21:49

That whole that whole idea

1:21:51

was advanced by the

1:21:53

chemical industry To

1:21:56

disparage the nonchemical because

1:21:58

listen a lot A lot of money is

1:22:00

made on the back of farmers. Farmers

1:22:03

spend a lot of money on equipment and chemicals

1:22:05

and things they don't need. Antibiotics,

1:22:07

I mean, way more antibiotics go into animals than

1:22:10

go into people. So think about all the antibiotics

1:22:12

that go into people. Animals

1:22:14

is twice as much. Okay? So who's

1:22:16

been drugging your dinner? You know, that's the kind of thing. So

1:22:18

and that's what we got, MRSA

1:22:20

and C. diff and superbugs, you know, in the

1:22:22

hospitals. The fact is, if we had

1:22:24

had a Manhattan project for

1:22:27

compost, not only would we have

1:22:29

fed the world, we would have done it

1:22:31

without three legged salamanders, infertile frogs, and a

1:22:33

dead zone the size of Rhode Island and

1:22:35

the Gulf of Mexico. So

1:22:37

I have kind of a spicy question. Are

1:22:40

the farmers who refuse

1:22:43

to stop taking government

1:22:46

subsidies cowards? I

1:22:48

mean, I've been between a rock and a hard place too sometimes.

1:22:51

And so I'm quick to not demonize

1:22:56

people with whom I disagree with. They

1:23:00

have their expectations, their dreams, their

1:23:02

hopes, their perceptions

1:23:06

that are as real to them as mine are

1:23:09

to me. And I have

1:23:11

a whole different set of life experience

1:23:13

and perceptions and things, observations, beliefs

1:23:16

that I've come to. And

1:23:19

everybody comes at their own time,

1:23:21

at their own rate. And

1:23:23

so I

1:23:25

don't think that the

1:23:28

farmers who I would disagree with are

1:23:31

evil people. I think

1:23:34

they're caught up in

1:23:36

an evil system. So

1:23:39

how would you explain to a fifth grader,

1:23:41

for example, what government food

1:23:43

subsidies are and how they impact our

1:23:45

food system? Well, some of it

1:23:47

depends on what the fifth grader knows

1:23:50

or believes. But I

1:23:52

would say, I mean, a quick way today would be,

1:23:54

do you trust Vauci? And

1:23:57

if he says yes, then we probably don't have much

1:23:59

more to talk about. about. If he says no,

1:24:01

which a lot of fifth graders would say

1:24:03

now, I would say, well,

1:24:06

do you want him choosing the food you eat? He

1:24:09

didn't make a good decision before. And Fauci

1:24:13

and friends, if you will, Fauci and

1:24:15

friends, I mean, they

1:24:17

all went to the same school. They all

1:24:19

drank the same Kool-Aid, okay? And

1:24:22

so having the government, having the USDA

1:24:24

in charge of our food is like

1:24:26

having the CDC in charge of our

1:24:28

health. It's the same monster. It's the

1:24:30

same thing. Okay? And so

1:24:32

I would simply start there. And if he

1:24:38

says no, I don't want Fauci in charge of my suit, well, why

1:24:42

would you want his buddies in charge of your

1:24:44

food system? How do government subsidies control our food

1:24:46

system? Like what are they paying farmers to do

1:24:48

and why? Well, the main thing is they

1:24:50

pick six commodities, corn,

1:24:53

soybeans, wheat, sugar

1:24:56

cane, rye, and rice and

1:24:58

cotton. Six commodities.

1:25:01

And now they don't call them subsidies anymore.

1:25:03

They call them crop insurance. That sounds way,

1:25:05

way better. Okay.

1:25:08

Like how we don't call it, we don't

1:25:10

say the homeless, we say the unhoused. Yes,

1:25:13

yes, exactly. Exactly. It sounds so much better

1:25:15

to say crop insurance than subsidies. But

1:25:18

what that does is it picks, it picks

1:25:20

winners. It picks six things and

1:25:23

suddenly those are both

1:25:26

incentivized to be grown more

1:25:31

than we need. And

1:25:33

number two, it creates a price

1:25:36

prejudice against all the other things

1:25:38

that you could grow. Okay. And

1:25:40

so that's the thing. Another

1:25:43

huge subsidy is the

1:25:45

land grant universities. What's

1:25:48

that? That's all the Cal colleges, Virginia

1:25:50

Tech, Penn State, Georgia

1:25:53

Tech, the

1:25:55

land grant universities, the 1890, land grant, I mean,

1:25:57

I think 1890, anyway, this was all. Oh, so

1:26:00

they're creating the schools so they can indoctrinate these

1:26:02

farmers to farm the way that they want. Yeah.

1:26:04

So so the government pays. Listen, you

1:26:06

won't ever see a

1:26:09

comp, you know, down at Virginia Tech

1:26:11

during graduation, all the Ag majors, you

1:26:13

won't see a beautiful,

1:26:17

big, portable hospitality trailer

1:26:19

from a compost company park

1:26:21

there. You see Monsanto, Cargill,

1:26:23

all lined up. And so

1:26:26

so it's again, it's

1:26:28

a scratch my back, I'll scratch yours.

1:26:31

And so these big companies asked

1:26:33

for USDA to support the land

1:26:35

grant universities. And, you

1:26:37

know, and then they get all this free

1:26:40

research money. I mean, good night for years,

1:26:42

you know, we've had all sorts of answers

1:26:44

to things that, you know, we hear the

1:26:46

government on, you know, you got to give

1:26:50

antibiotic for pink eye, you know, and

1:26:52

so I raised a bit of

1:26:54

a stink and and the animal

1:26:57

extent, PhD animal science comes

1:26:59

up to visit me. We

1:27:01

walk around and I was

1:27:03

telling him about kelp about, you know, seaweed

1:27:06

as a mineral supplement, lemonade, spink eye. And

1:27:08

he looks at what we're doing. He says, yeah, I

1:27:11

think I think you probably got something here. I said,

1:27:13

well, on your radio broadcast in next week, why

1:27:15

don't you why don't you say, you know, I met,

1:27:18

you know, some farmers are saying they get benefits

1:27:20

from kelp. And maybe something, oh, I can't say

1:27:22

anything unless there's a double blind study. I said,

1:27:24

well, how do we get a double blind study?

1:27:26

He says, how much money will you give me?

1:27:29

Yeah. Wow. I'm

1:27:32

not giving him money, but but Merck is giving him

1:27:34

money. Pfizer is giving him money. For the farmers who

1:27:36

have been farming subsidy crops. I don't know if that's

1:27:38

the right way to say it. But for them who

1:27:41

this has been their their whole family for decades and

1:27:43

decades and decades. This is how they farmed. But

1:27:45

they're hearing people like you and

1:27:48

they're seeing the consumer

1:27:50

really looking for organic

1:27:52

regenerative food. And

1:27:54

they're like, maybe I could transition. I mean,

1:27:56

are they truly stuck or is it actually

1:27:58

possible for them to switch over? over. Oh,

1:28:01

it's absolutely possible to switch over. You

1:28:03

know, the biggest, uh, the

1:28:05

biggest climate we need to change is the climate

1:28:07

of the mind. That, that's where we need to

1:28:09

start changing it. And so I know

1:28:11

many, I mean, goodness, I

1:28:13

helped a family in North Carolina that

1:28:15

had four, uh, uh, Turkey

1:28:18

houses, you know, big confinement, Turkey

1:28:20

houses. They transitioned to

1:28:23

pastured poultry took them about

1:28:25

two or three years, but boy, they

1:28:27

did it and they are flying. Awesome.

1:28:29

Cancel their contracts. The houses are in

1:28:31

fact, I was down there. I did

1:28:33

a consult day with them on their

1:28:35

farm. And one of the most interesting

1:28:37

sessions was we're sitting around the table,

1:28:39

dad, son, daughter-in-law me. Okay. And we're

1:28:41

brainstorming, what can you do with

1:28:43

an empty confinement Turkey house?

1:28:45

You know, I mean, these things are

1:28:48

as big as a football field. I

1:28:50

mean, it was everything from like, you

1:28:52

know, an indoor, uh, um, moped, you

1:28:54

know, like dirt bike track to, uh,

1:28:56

you know, to massive, um, uh, children's

1:28:58

treasure hunts. To, uh, you know, just

1:29:01

imagining all these things and, uh,

1:29:03

and they've done well. So, so yes, there are people,

1:29:05

I will tell you though, that,

1:29:07

uh, that the impediment is,

1:29:10

is, is primarily, um,

1:29:13

attitudinal, you know, a

1:29:15

belief that you can, uh, you

1:29:18

know, people don't break out of prison if

1:29:20

they don't think they can escape. So

1:29:23

first you have to think you can escape. That's

1:29:25

the hardest part. Do you think you can escape?

1:29:27

If you, if you get to that point, then,

1:29:30

Hey, let's look at how to get out

1:29:32

of here. You know, then you, then you start looking at routes.

1:29:35

And of course, there are things that make it

1:29:37

worse. Like if you're heavily in debt, the

1:29:40

higher you are in debt, the harder it is

1:29:42

to break out. So a lot of these people

1:29:44

would do well to, for example, if they're heavily

1:29:46

in debt to sell a quarter

1:29:48

of their farm or whatever it takes to get out of

1:29:50

debt, that gives you the economic

1:29:53

freedom now to do some other

1:29:55

things with the other, with the other part of

1:29:57

the farm. And, and I

1:29:59

always tell. people start with something small,

1:30:01

do a prototype. Because first is attitudinal,

1:30:03

can I break out? The second then

1:30:05

now is you need self confidence. And

1:30:08

the self confidence comes from a successful

1:30:11

experiment. So think of something that

1:30:13

you can do that's really small and

1:30:15

try it. And

1:30:18

if it works, then you'll build confidence and

1:30:20

you go down the path that way. Absolutely.

1:30:22

People are breaking out, you know, all the

1:30:24

time. You say that we need

1:30:26

the food equivalent of the NRA. Could

1:30:29

you elaborate on that? We all know what

1:30:31

the NRA is, National Rifle Association. And

1:30:34

people don't realize how little food

1:30:37

choice they have. They don't. They

1:30:39

go to Costco, Walmart. They see all those

1:30:41

shelves full of bright, shiny, you know, labels.

1:30:44

Oh, what do you mean we don't have food choice? Well, have

1:30:46

you ever tried to, you ever tried to buy a homemade

1:30:50

baloney from an artisanal food crafter at church that

1:30:52

does it on the side as a hobby and

1:30:55

say, you know, I like to buy some. Oh,

1:30:57

no, no, no. I can't sell it. You know,

1:30:59

it's illegal. There

1:31:02

are there are thousands of

1:31:04

things that we

1:31:07

could that we could get from friends,

1:31:09

neighbors, acquaintances

1:31:12

that that

1:31:15

are that are being done as hobbies, as little

1:31:17

cottage industry, as little, you know, fun

1:31:20

stuff to do. But

1:31:22

they're illegal to sell. Right. The

1:31:24

moment those became

1:31:27

possible. To enter an

1:31:30

actual transaction, we

1:31:32

would see Walmart, Cargill,

1:31:35

Costco brought to their

1:31:37

knees. When I

1:31:39

went up to D.C. to testify,

1:31:42

Congressman Thomas Massie asked me to come up and

1:31:45

be a be a to testify

1:31:47

in these congressional hearings. There

1:31:50

were whatever eight Republicans, eight Democrats

1:31:52

on the committee. The

1:31:55

Democrats, I'm not trying

1:31:57

to be partisan here. I'm just the Democrats.

1:32:00

the person, every one of them was,

1:32:04

we need to get antitrust going.

1:32:06

We need to break up these

1:32:08

big outfits and get

1:32:11

the Federal Trade Commission in there

1:32:13

and do antitrust. We

1:32:17

don't need antitrust. All

1:32:20

we need is freedom. And

1:32:23

if entrepreneurs could access their

1:32:25

neighbors and friends with food without

1:32:27

going to jail and

1:32:33

without mountain loads of licensing

1:32:35

and compliance reports and everything

1:32:37

else, without bureaucratic intervention. Again,

1:32:40

I'm back to you and I

1:32:42

as consenting adults, exercising freedom

1:32:45

of choice to engage in

1:32:47

a food transaction without a bureaucrat in

1:32:49

the middle of us. If we could

1:32:51

do that, it

1:32:54

would absolutely topple the

1:32:58

big food oligarchs in this country. It

1:33:00

would topple them, which is why they

1:33:03

fear so vehemently

1:33:07

food freedom. They will

1:33:09

say, oh, we'll have

1:33:11

unsafe food. We'll have people eating bad stuff.

1:33:13

I mean, that's what they say. The

1:33:16

problem is in our country now, we have so

1:33:18

far, we have irrigated to the federal level so

1:33:21

many things that we can't

1:33:24

even try a prototype. You know, like, like,

1:33:26

like our commission of agriculture, when he called me

1:33:28

aside during the hearing and said, Joel, if we

1:33:30

give people freedom of choice, we won't be able

1:33:32

to build enough hospitals for all the sick people.

1:33:34

The problem is I can't say, I can't

1:33:37

say, well, this locality did it. And people

1:33:39

got better because if

1:33:41

a locality tries it, the federal government says,

1:33:43

no, you can't do this. And

1:33:46

so the problem is we don't have, we don't

1:33:48

have the freedom of even, if

1:33:51

our county wanted to say, you know what, in

1:33:53

our county, if

1:33:56

two people want to engage in

1:34:00

food transactions in our

1:34:02

county, we're gonna let it happen. That's not a

1:34:04

bureaucratic issue. You think it's really

1:34:06

interesting that we live in

1:34:09

a time where the government says

1:34:11

being 50 different genders at once is

1:34:13

okay, but drinking raw milk isn't? Oh,

1:34:16

it's, yeah, it's

1:34:19

unspeakable. Yeah, what do you say about that? But

1:34:21

the problem is we don't have the freedom to

1:34:23

try to

1:34:26

try so that if our county did this, and

1:34:28

guess what? Food prices came down,

1:34:30

people got healthier, and the hospitals were

1:34:32

suddenly, over five years got empty.

1:34:35

How do we make it so that where we

1:34:37

live locally, we're able to do these

1:34:39

things? We are able to buy and sell food

1:34:41

with our neighbors and get access to raw milk.

1:34:43

This is the kind of food sovereignty stuff that

1:34:45

we're talking about. This is why Thomas Massey has

1:34:48

put in this congressional amendment

1:34:50

to give us the rights

1:34:52

in food that we have, for

1:34:55

example, in guns. And this is why

1:34:57

I've said, when Americans are

1:34:59

as interested in food rights as

1:35:03

they are gun rights, we're gonna

1:35:05

see a different country. And

1:35:07

that's the truth. What does it matter if

1:35:09

you have the freedom to go shoot,

1:35:12

pray, and preach, if

1:35:15

you don't have the freedom to choose your

1:35:17

body's fuel, to give your microbiome enough energy

1:35:19

to go shoot, pray, and preach? I

1:35:21

happen to be here, we're recording in May,

1:35:24

this comes out in June, but

1:35:26

I'm here for the Rogue Food Conference. Is

1:35:29

this something that happens annually? Is this something that people can come

1:35:31

to next year? And what is it? I wrote a book, Everything

1:35:33

I Want to Do is Illegal. And

1:35:36

it grew out of my frustration with, I

1:35:39

speak all over the world. And the

1:35:41

most common thing I hear from farmers is,

1:35:43

well, I wanna do this, but

1:35:48

the government, the SWAT team came in, whatever. And we'd

1:35:50

like to do a lot of things that we'd like

1:35:52

to do, but we don't because they're illegal. And

1:35:55

so I said,

1:35:57

you know what we need, need

1:36:00

to come

1:36:02

alongside and encourage

1:36:05

and help folks

1:36:07

who are circumventing and

1:36:09

not complying. I got with

1:36:11

John Moody and fortunately he was

1:36:14

willing to kind of do the behind the

1:36:16

scenes. I'm just the idea guy visionary, you

1:36:18

know, but somebody's got to

1:36:20

actually make phone calls and websites and make

1:36:22

it happen. So John did all that. We

1:36:24

had our first one in February of 2020.

1:36:28

That's bold. Two weeks before the lockdowns.

1:36:30

Wow. How crazy is that? Two

1:36:32

weeks before the lockdowns. And it was like drinking

1:36:34

out of a freedom fire hose for the day.

1:36:36

It was unbelievable. And so then we

1:36:38

had another one. We didn't do one in 2021. We

1:36:41

did another one in 2022. This is

1:36:43

our, I think our eighth one coming up and we're trying to

1:36:45

do now to a year and move

1:36:47

it around the country. So in

1:36:50

the fall, we'll be in Dallas.

1:36:52

Oh, great. And in

1:36:54

the spring, we'll be in Florida and

1:36:56

we've been in Washington state. We've

1:36:59

been in Kentucky, Tennessee, Florida. I

1:37:02

know, I know they're wanting us to come

1:37:04

to new England. So

1:37:06

our plan is, and this thing's

1:37:09

getting legs. I mean, people

1:37:11

are in, you, you cannot imagine

1:37:13

the, the latent

1:37:16

entrepreneurial desire of farmers

1:37:19

out there. They know their, their neighbors want

1:37:21

this stuff, but they can't get

1:37:23

it to them because there's a bureaucratic, you

1:37:26

know, wall between them.

1:37:28

So the idea here is that

1:37:30

we are shining a spotlight on

1:37:33

people and, and ideas that

1:37:36

circumvent that there comes

1:37:38

a point when tyranny is so big

1:37:41

that it's more efficacious

1:37:43

to circumvent than comply.

1:37:47

And I think that's where we are now in

1:37:49

many, in many respects. And so

1:37:51

we're shining a light on alternative

1:37:54

ideas and the people who

1:37:57

are creating. and

1:40:00

build a soil-healing,

1:40:03

water-encouraging, nutrient-dense

1:40:06

food system for their people. And then,

1:40:10

millions of

1:40:13

non-farmers sign

1:40:15

up and say, yes, I

1:40:18

will join the healing

1:40:21

movement. And

1:40:23

I don't mean a woo woo, you

1:40:26

know, I mean- The healing food movement. The

1:40:28

healing food and land movement, yeah. So our

1:40:30

little, you know, our little phrase here on

1:40:32

all of our bags at Polyface is healing

1:40:34

the land one bite at a time. We

1:40:36

want people to understand that what

1:40:38

is on your menu is

1:40:41

going to define the landscape

1:40:44

your grandchildren inherit. And

1:40:46

who can buy Polyface food, only

1:40:48

locals? No, no, we ship nation-wide,

1:40:51

we ship every Tuesday and Wednesday. Even eggs?

1:40:54

Even eggs. How does that not break in the mail? Well,

1:40:56

it took us a while to find good packaging. But

1:41:00

I think, I think we've only had

1:41:02

one dozen crack. Wow,

1:41:04

that's really good. Yeah, in a

1:41:06

long time, in all the time. So

1:41:08

meat and eggs and- Cheese.

1:41:13

We don't make, but we work

1:41:15

with a local A2A2 grass-based organic

1:41:17

dairy. He is organic certified. Mennonite,

1:41:20

horse and buggy, Mennonite actually, who

1:41:23

has a wonderful cheese room. And so

1:41:25

yeah, there are other things that you can get too.

1:41:27

If you're looking at a family of four,

1:41:30

a mom, dad, two kids, who

1:41:34

in that family holds the key to stopping

1:41:37

big food? Mom. Oh

1:41:39

no, I mean, look, all of our

1:41:42

customers are women. I mean, men don't

1:41:44

do anything but open the refrigerator and say, honey, I can't

1:41:46

find it. That's all men do. So

1:41:48

basically, 95% of all food decisions or

1:41:52

food purchases are made by women. Unfortunately,

1:41:54

right now, about 70% of food

1:41:56

decisions are

1:41:59

made by people- under six. What

1:42:01

does that mean? That means children

1:42:03

are watching TV ads, watching

1:42:06

celebrity ads, and they're saying, I

1:42:08

want this for dinner. What

1:42:10

happened to parenting? Well, it's gone

1:42:12

down the wayside because we worship

1:42:14

children. Unbelievable.

1:42:17

Way more than half of all,

1:42:19

you know, menus now are chosen

1:42:21

by children based on

1:42:24

YouTube TV ads, friendship,

1:42:26

this kind of thing. And so

1:42:29

it's time for mom to step

1:42:31

up to the plate and say, you know

1:42:33

what, as for my house,

1:42:37

you know, we're going to eat

1:42:40

healthy and we're gonna create

1:42:42

a landscape that is healthy

1:42:45

and we're going to instill in our children one of

1:42:48

the reasons we do this is

1:42:50

because we respect and honor the

1:42:52

biology and the life and the beings

1:42:55

that are sacrificing for us. There's no

1:42:58

sacredness in a Tyson chicken being

1:43:00

butchered. They're just glad to be put out

1:43:02

of their misery. But one of

1:43:04

our chickens that lives in the fresh air sunshine

1:43:06

eats grasshoppers and grass and gets to run around

1:43:09

and have a wonderful life, that

1:43:11

sacrifice becomes sacred. And

1:43:14

I think it's important for children to

1:43:16

grow up understanding part of why we

1:43:18

eat this is because it

1:43:20

ultimately respects and honors the

1:43:23

life that the carrot, the chicken, the cabbage, the

1:43:25

whatever gave that we may

1:43:27

live. That's one of the most fundamental

1:43:31

principles of respect and honor that

1:43:33

we can bestow on each other.

1:43:35

And it heightens the sanctity of

1:43:37

life to a place that's not

1:43:39

just about abortion. It's about my life,

1:43:42

your life, our

1:43:45

collective life, and

1:43:47

putting sacredness into that life space. And

1:43:50

it starts by honoring the least of

1:43:53

these, which then creates an ethical

1:43:55