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more about Thomas's at thomass'sbreads.com. This

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episode contains explicit language. Here

0:34

we go. This is the

0:36

Sporkful. It's not for foodies, it's for

0:38

eaters. I'm Andy Richter. I'm Claire Saffitz.

0:40

I'm Sam Sanders. I'm Lindy West.

0:42

I'm Patty Hienich. Each week

0:44

on our show, we obsess about food to

0:46

learn more about people. And tonight

0:49

we're coming to you live from

0:51

Miracle Theater in Washington, D.C. From

0:54

WHYY in Philadelphia. From The Loft

0:56

in Atlanta. From Amsterdam Hall in

0:59

St. Paul, Minnesota. From the Fremont

1:01

Abbey in Seattle. For about

1:03

six weeks this spring, I

1:17

zigzagged across the country doing the biggest

1:19

tour of live shows in Sporkful history.

1:22

I went to 10 cities in celebration

1:24

of the release of my first cookbook,

1:26

Anything's Possible. Each event

1:28

was held in a small theater with a few hundred

1:30

enthusiastic Sporkful listeners. And if you were at one of

1:32

those shows, thank you for coming out. It was great

1:34

to see you. Now, these shows were different from regular

1:37

Sporkful episodes because I gave up the hosting chair. At

1:39

every taping, I talked with a different guest host and

1:41

they interviewed me. In places where my

1:43

cookbook collaborators were based, they joined me on stage

1:46

too. And each show included Q&A with the

1:48

audience. So this week and next, we're bringing

1:50

you the best moments from those live shows.

1:53

Now, we did do a four-part series about the

1:55

making of Anything's Possible a few months

1:57

ago. If you haven't listened to that, I suggest you start there.

2:00

Holy change the way you look. A couple That

2:02

said we're not going to rehash the series in

2:04

today's show or next week said we're going to

2:06

hear many the follow up questions that I got

2:09

about the book and respond to the many questions

2:11

I got it on my opinions on a range

2:13

or present food issues because of his once it

2:15

became clear as a juror went on as that

2:17

people love to share their own food, heartache and

2:20

argue with me about my says a lot of

2:22

that. In other words we got some radical for

2:24

get To It. So

2:27

began a So many things on the sport

2:29

will do with passes shapes. We kicked

2:31

off the tour in New York City with

2:33

Clear Surface youtube star and author of Dessert

2:35

Person and for Dessert Clear showed up with

2:37

a strong stance overall. I. Do think

2:39

that are falling Makes no sense. Or fi success.

2:42

Success though is is like it

2:44

was engineered, not typical saw. It

2:46

makes no sense. But it also feels

2:48

like did you get a lot of our fi when you are

2:50

kids I said my mom always as eighty five hour and a

2:53

was always a overt club and then undercooked. Also. Yes, they

2:55

make up in and out of the bow

2:57

tie right? But which is worse? Bow ties

2:59

are wagon wheels. Oh

3:02

I mean. Is. Why? And we'll

3:04

have to for anyone other than small children. Is

3:07

that a thing is some people with as

3:09

it's as but but my applause we're was

3:11

which is worse bow ties or or wagon

3:13

was Whichever one of you vote for is

3:15

the one you're saying is worse. Or

3:18

right so by applause. Who thinks bow ties

3:20

are worse? Okay,

3:26

cool things, Wagon wheels or worse. Was

3:32

not a little. The school knows. That.

3:36

I Target. I really needed even know

3:38

that people eight Wagon Wheel process. Typically

3:40

by the Uk is no wagon it

3:42

was were invented in the nineteen thirties

3:44

by Benedetto Cavaliere. Wow! Has at his

3:47

companies exist to this day is made

3:49

in Italy and when it was made

3:51

this is how fucked up. Us

3:54

when it was made one hundred years ago.

3:56

People were like put Us under. Cover:

3:59

Uri. This sub groups unevenly

4:01

in as hard surfaces he said. But

4:03

don't you see that's the point of

4:05

it's it has different textures. Like.

4:08

What The fuck. Out

4:10

and I actually in my research this

4:12

book ordered Benedetto Cover yeah rebrand Wagon

4:15

Wheels which cost fifteen dollars us for

4:17

of how with us. And

4:19

it was like eating. Pasta. Miss

4:21

with uncooked rice. Is

4:24

terrible but in the name of research yet

4:26

I admire that you said that. Yeah, Clear.

4:29

An eye on the same team when it comes

4:31

to for Follow and Wagon Wheels Sports I

4:33

got to Boston I had to go on the

4:35

defensive as off with Dan Sousa editor and see

4:38

who Cook's Illustrated Magazine star of the America's

4:40

Test Kitchen web series was eating dance and renowned

4:42

food science nerd. They you know how I feel

4:44

about spaghetti. I think it sucks as is

4:46

too much or too little and her fourth is

4:48

always a few dangler the get sauce over your

4:51

face and it's almost impossible to have the perfect

4:53

sauce to pass the ratio in a single

4:55

fork for these are design flaws. But.

4:57

Then Sousa. To. Go to bat

4:59

for spaghetti. Where. It comes down

5:01

to me is I feel like spaghetti just

5:03

their takes. It takes a little skill and

5:05

a little bit of like effort to get

5:08

that perfect fight on their own. You get

5:10

it is more satisfying. I

5:12

guess soon I just find satisfaction and different

5:14

things. To

5:16

me like after haven't cooked spaghetti in cook the

5:18

sauce and sir and played at it like that

5:20

was enough worth. Okay gotcha. Yeah now I want

5:22

to just eat mode is when his yeah I

5:24

get him out but I I hear what you're saying

5:27

like. There's an artificial are you

5:29

spoon assists guy know. Really

5:31

See I'd say are getting consistently

5:33

getting great by some spaghetti without

5:36

a spoon. Assists is yeah yeah

5:38

I mean. Not

5:41

not every time in on every time but

5:43

I I think I'm I'm pretty good at

5:46

spaghetti. Sauce

5:48

Yeah, I think I'm pretty good

5:50

as ours. But

5:52

know so so. So that was

5:54

my entry point when you were like, "Your make him",

5:57

as he pauses, "If you his spaghetti and I'm

5:59

like, "Where's this going?" We're your cat. Could tell

6:01

he came out. And you were kind

6:03

enough to send me a box and I was

6:05

like this stuff you know I was like now

6:07

I'm not gonna like this and I boiled it

6:09

up and ice and it really simply I did

6:11

that are like some olive oil and parmesan. what

6:13

not. And I ate it. May.

6:15

Be really liked it and that

6:18

really annoyed me. A success is

6:20

really really good pasta and what?

6:22

What? I think is so smart about it.

6:24

You have you had that Bucatini affecting you,

6:27

have the ruffles from them for the nice

6:29

and these angular seats and it really is

6:31

So to the like it's it's so satisfying

6:33

to chew on and I've since then so

6:35

many things with it and I was doing

6:37

weird stuff with it Before your book came

6:39

out in your book is given me even

6:41

more weird ideas. So you have actually changed

6:43

my my connection. A pasta What? Thank you

6:45

I'm at today urging the. Spaghetti

6:50

and one of my favorite alternatives to

6:52

spaghetti also worth their weight, the conversation

6:54

and Seattle where I talked with author,

6:56

podcast or tv writer. it's median Lindy

6:58

West as I told her, Spaghetti is

7:00

like the oldest safe and it's that

7:02

was the first saved to be industrialized

7:04

and so it. Is a kind

7:07

of like it's are just got its hooks

7:09

into the up into the firmament. It is

7:11

a popular culture into our imagination and in

7:13

the Lady of the Tramp and all this

7:15

and it just as is see been easy

7:17

to make. But. But but because of

7:19

other symptoms is very primitive. In. As

7:21

they weren't were not also driver on a model

7:23

seas. So are we eating spaghetti?

7:26

Soetoro Okay avast

7:28

experts. A. One time I had

7:30

a spaghetti that was kind of square.

7:33

And. I kept it was so good and I

7:35

can't find it again. And I was long. He

7:37

was long. And it would mean where would

7:40

it was? Maybe like amps accept or if

7:42

it did, What was that? It

7:44

may have been square so if it

7:46

was square that was a spaghetti alla

7:49

Qatar. Qatar is Italian for guitar and

7:51

that us pasta. It's like as if

7:53

you took of like up flat see

7:55

the lasagna. impressive. Through guitar strings he

7:57

would get strands of little squared. The

8:00

edges, that's that's a fun save I think

8:02

they call it on a rally in Rome?

8:04

Okay, the same. It's a bit of the

8:06

same. same. I'm guessing that's probably what it

8:08

was. Probably. Was what it was and it was

8:10

really good. An easel try to find it's ah,

8:12

it's a fun one. it's it. Just said they

8:15

really like holds the thoughts better than a. Regular.

8:17

Piglet has more surface area and a square has

8:19

more servicers in a circle. Say

8:23

it has a higher service areas of I

8:25

am ratio a circle as or spears the

8:27

lowest service areas of I am ratio of

8:29

any shape. So as soon as you turn

8:32

risk settled with square going to more surface

8:34

area when a son volume to more surface

8:36

area to hold thought So why are we

8:39

held prisoner about his rounds noodles? That's what

8:41

I'm saying. Now

8:50

we didn't spend every minute of every so talking

8:52

about Pasa Saves though we probably could have in

8:54

our series and I didn't possible. We spent a

8:56

lot of time digging into the process of making

8:58

a cookbook as it turns out a lot of

9:00

the house and are so heard all these he

9:02

sells it had follow up questions they want to

9:04

know more than San Francisco Top the same. Sanders

9:07

one of the host of the podcast Vibe Sex.

9:09

Before that he's been twelve years and Npr. I've.

9:11

Interviewed chefs before. have talked about

9:14

cookbooks before but I've never listened

9:16

to a podcast series explain how

9:18

a cookbook is made. Who hears

9:20

has heard those episodes of the

9:23

Sport for Integrates. Also it's just

9:25

like Totally Chains where they were

9:27

cookbooks as in my mind it's

9:29

like are summarized the cookbook. They.

9:33

Have the rest be they've been making forever.

9:35

And they landed down. And the

9:38

same sex of etc. Come

9:40

to find out that success as a

9:42

whole team involved as recipe test stains,

9:45

you tried some of these things more

9:47

than a dozen times. Which

9:50

recipe and I'm speaking about

9:52

Like frequency of retesting was

9:54

the hardest from this cookbook.

9:57

I mean probably that that this is one for cabbage.

9:59

Hell. with artichokes in preserve lemon. Like.

10:02

That will is this. You. Know every little

10:04

detail in every detail to be. Consider how much

10:06

preserve lemon, how long, how many kids y sus,

10:08

how much tests a lotta roast them for. But

10:10

then it's also. The. Part that I

10:13

really agonize over was the writing

10:15

of the instructions fly. And it's

10:17

because you're trying to anticipate every

10:19

single possible way that someone could

10:21

go wrong. Someone is makes

10:23

a success I will go up you war But

10:26

or and a million other they every person in

10:28

this room and or impersonal by the book because

10:30

the people of different levels of expertise you have

10:32

different cooking equipment. You have different lighting in her

10:35

kitchen so I say the cooks and into golden

10:37

brown like that's not exactly the same for everyone

10:39

and those are the kinds of like wording choices

10:41

that I agonize over. One. Recipe

10:43

that are really agonize over while riding with

10:46

spaghetti Alla says seen this as Assassins Spaghetti

10:48

A spaghetti. The spicy tomato sauce pan fry

10:50

into the pasta turns hard and crispy and

10:52

crunchy. It's it's really really good, but we're

10:55

not careful. All that sarin can wreak havoc

10:57

on your cookware and up with this recipe

10:59

in the books. I made sure to include

11:01

a note about the importance of using a

11:04

nonstick pan. And our New York

11:06

show hosts clear suffered so me she tried

11:08

out that recipe and. It will

11:10

say do listen to the note and the rest

11:12

yet cause for non pan I did make them

11:14

assess. How did you let. Them. I say the

11:16

bus I ran into all four parts of the

11:18

podcast the talks about the making of the bucks

11:20

so I I listen to them make that same

11:22

mistake and another. Comfort. I'll be fine. Clear

11:27

went on to point out that over the course

11:29

of the book with the Asa seen the and

11:31

other dishes I went from never read in recipe

11:33

my life to becoming extremely meticulous by the recipes

11:35

I was created. So thinking like. Did

11:38

you really need it? has the recipe that many times

11:40

and would you do it differently said it or to

11:43

get because if you give examples for you're like okay

11:45

we'll on has eight there wasn't enough preserve lemon zest

11:47

number nine there was too much and I'm like okay

11:49

to split the difference and then. They

11:52

I saw the by your approach. Us.

11:56

I you know, I'm

11:58

sure that you. Because. Have

12:00

a professional training and and you before you wrote

12:02

your first cookbook you develop a lot of recipes

12:04

so maybe if I get to the point my

12:06

career I've the others may recipes as you have

12:08

that I would have that conference to say like

12:10

I know what this nice I don't need to

12:12

test to the gates of I guess I just

12:14

didn't have that confidence i what I needed to

12:16

be sure that it was right for them even

12:18

after the rest is finalized I when cooked it

12:20

again and was like this. But. Maybe there

12:22

should have been like one of the teaspoon more

12:24

preserve or less preserve them. It's so to do

12:27

you do that soon as you cook something Later

12:29

efforts been finalized and put in a prison and

12:31

wonder if you did or and she changes all

12:33

the time. All the time and

12:35

I think it's important to have an

12:37

external. I mean you had a collaborative

12:39

arrested development process, which I think that's

12:41

really interesting because. For. Me writing cookbooks

12:43

is very solitary. It's pretty much just me and

12:46

like my neighbors who like everything so they're not

12:48

that helpful when it comes to like to ride

12:50

a bike. Is this the final version or something?

12:52

But I am always second guessing and so I

12:54

do think you need to have someone like that

12:56

Neither freezes, your is under, your kids and your

12:58

wife were like eating all the tests. Are my

13:00

kids leave any passes for them? Pretty tough

13:03

critic that are those who suffer from what

13:05

I. Can hear so I do think it's

13:07

important. Said just call it as at a

13:09

certain point because you can test the recipe

13:11

hundreds of times right and always be changing

13:13

something minor here and there because it can

13:15

be people like me who liked to survive.

13:17

The very first note of your recipe and

13:19

I died in is a nonstick pan us

13:21

and they're like forgot an ingredient other substituting

13:23

so it's a little bit freeing at the

13:25

same time as as a keyboard gonna do

13:27

what they're going to do and their own

13:29

kitchen. Sometimes. You just shouldn't look at

13:31

what happens. To arrest these when they go

13:33

out and not allow that didn't for refusing

13:35

to suffer. So. Yes, there

13:37

will always be people out there like clear

13:39

who won't follow the notes that I wrote

13:41

so painstakingly. Still, I wanted

13:44

to get these recipes rights and as I said

13:46

I had written a recipe before starting of his

13:48

books that's why in that a pyro my team

13:50

of recipe developers that clear reference to help me

13:52

out. But. Still felt don't. I.

13:54

Talked about this feeling would join only Molinaro

13:57

in Chicago. Sees the author of the Korean

13:59

Vegan Cookbook. One of the things

14:01

that I recently heard you talk about

14:03

was. The. Idea of Imposter

14:05

Syndrome. I mean, how did you overcome

14:07

that impostor syndrome? I definitely had it

14:10

when I was writing my book. to

14:12

be an effective leader for this team.

14:14

you pull together. Yeah for sure know

14:16

our our Zephyr like Early on I was at

14:18

Why? Wasn't. I want my recipe what

14:20

do I know that what eggs I will I'm

14:23

working with his Sv developers who are all as

14:25

trained in our country training who know much more

14:27

but couldn't than I do with we would come

14:29

up with an idea they would go off in

14:31

cook it for five time so they thought of

14:33

as great semi the recipe and and I would

14:35

cook it. And. Sometimes. I.

14:37

Would have. See. Back or like oh

14:39

I don't quite like this aspect of it or

14:41

this is confusing to me. This is it's confusing

14:43

or I wish more this but I was like.

14:46

Because. I say that's a them. Like

14:48

they're the professional since they know how

14:50

it's supposed to be. As

14:53

sick I just. partly. Just as I

14:55

tested more my recipes I just got more come

14:57

from what the processes and being in the kitchen

14:59

and cooking. And. Then I

15:01

got to put Roses, I I have two

15:03

jobs for this book, and it's not really

15:05

to like right the details of the recipes

15:07

the jobs. I'm a home cooked and

15:09

his book is for home cooks and so that where

15:12

I saw my value is like I'm the standard for

15:14

the home cooks and the other thing was just that

15:16

that i to bring to it was that like. Infused.

15:19

The book with my perspective. That's.

15:21

What I'm bringing is my taste. In.

15:24

Creative community who don't talk about taste for

15:26

your taste is the most important things. Like

15:28

when you're young and you have a lot

15:30

of ideas at you and if you are

15:32

going to end up being creative successful in

15:34

a creative field than you have to have

15:37

good taste. What you don't have is the

15:39

ability to. Turn that you know

15:41

what's good. You just don't had a make

15:43

good things yet. And see,

15:45

you have to learn how to make things that are

15:47

as good as the ideas in your head so that

15:50

you are sort of like living up to your own

15:52

taste. And Licks was at

15:54

my personality, my perspective on food, my taste, what

15:56

I like, what I think is good that's my

15:58

job is to put that in the. Book and

16:00

so that gave me conferences like I can tell

16:02

them that I want to change it. Over.

16:05

The Course: reading my cookbook I did gain

16:07

confidence. But. Still, there's one group of

16:09

people who may always dead me. A

16:11

multiple tours dobbs folks had the

16:13

same question but the Italians about.

16:17

A hard as they feel. I mean

16:19

Italians are famously opinionated about like you

16:21

gotta do it this way. What? The

16:23

The Italians make it as good. As.

16:26

To am putting me in Chicago. I

16:28

was wondering if you told somebody in

16:31

Italy while you're out there hey I'm

16:33

making it seem seats have been other

16:35

about what the reaction of the they.

16:38

Are probably are confused another as it is

16:40

that on like that idea that american come

16:42

up with an idea of reposted right so

16:44

that they were at all right Her I

16:46

had lost credibility with them before I said

16:48

the word since the okay. But

16:52

not as I did a research trip across Italy

16:54

for this cookbook. My big take away from that

16:56

ship was that. Pasta. Was not

16:58

the national food of Italy until about one hundred years

17:00

ago. Italy was even a

17:02

country until hundred and fifty years ago. that is

17:04

new to me here. Yeah with his his every

17:06

is still very hyper reasonable. It's sort of of.

17:09

it's sort of us. Are a motley crew

17:11

of reasons that were unified into a country

17:13

or hundred and fifty years ago and soon

17:15

after that that the Fascists came to power

17:17

and they wanted to unite them under nationalists'

17:19

identity and they decided pasta would be be

17:21

part of that. says. All as

17:23

fast as propaganda from that the air in

17:25

the nineteen twenties and thirties of pasta been

17:27

this book. the true Italian food and they'll

17:30

succeed. Season is if he the masses. They

17:32

started building pasta factories in parts of Italy

17:34

where there were none before To that was

17:36

how pasta spread across the country and became

17:38

the national food vividly. I love the history,

17:40

I love the kosher, the romance of Italian

17:42

food, but there is also a lot of

17:44

mythology, both opponents. It's not as old as

17:46

you think, but it's also not a static.

17:49

It's me that's very exciting, that actually

17:51

Italian food is dynamic and pasta culture

17:53

is changing and Carbon Are is relatively

17:55

new. and Spaghetti Alla Athena assassin spaghetti

17:57

was invented in a restaurant and eighty

17:59

six. The in bari and and new versions

18:01

are coming out and buy right now in

18:03

the last two years it's as it's got

18:05

more popular so. I

18:08

kind of like started off as project thing

18:10

that I'm can like kicking down the door

18:12

of Italian food, but actually it actually made

18:14

more excited to think of the book instead

18:16

as my contribution to what is this ongoing

18:18

and never ending evolution of pasta. I

18:20

think that's beautiful and a think that that

18:22

story happens in so many different cultures where

18:24

you think that this is the traditional way

18:27

to make it. but then you peel back

18:29

a couple layers and you realize now years

18:31

Mr. Ed red beans and you know, potatoes

18:33

and pineapples right thing that otherwise is supposed

18:36

to be savory. Good for you those to

18:38

emulate him. She wasn't always me with map

18:40

with have any Yeah wasn't always spicy exactly

18:42

it would be now. Is to be white.

18:44

He said not repair it as rhino fish

18:46

sauce, just sea salt. And then you know

18:48

whatever vegetable he had on hand, right? That's

18:51

sort of. The beautiful thing about it is

18:53

you know people continue to innovate around. It's

18:55

and it's It's like a little piece of

18:57

history. These.

19:01

Questions of how I took inspiration from different

19:03

cuisines in the book and what is quote

19:05

unquote authentic came up a lot cross the

19:08

to are a number of our hosts have

19:10

grappled with his questions in their own lives

19:12

and works and have thoughts about what happened.

19:14

Commentary: cultures merge in Minnesota. Talk about this

19:16

with the chef and campus and when that

19:18

arrange a different cuisines together her twin Cities

19:20

restaurants especially at her place Pizzeria Lola about

19:23

my new one of the pieces has Korean

19:25

barbecue saw ribs and a regular. another has

19:27

Kim see a good job to started off

19:29

ask me how do you feel about. Authenticity

19:32

and tradition include. The.

19:34

Whole authenticity is is is. Kind

19:37

of bogus because. You could

19:39

go to two homes in Korea and

19:41

that across the street from each other

19:43

and their Tim She recipes are going

19:45

to be difference. I would never tell

19:47

either one of the people in those

19:49

houses that they're Tim. She's not authentic,

19:51

you know is offensive to them. To.

19:54

Me, it's more about like having integrity

19:56

that be respectful of the tradition in

19:58

the culture, not just. The blob and

20:00

loving friends together. but like thinking about what you're

20:02

doing, an understanding something about it. But.

20:05

What are you? Must have gotten a little bit

20:07

of a pushback from Italian? Serious? When you open

20:09

Pizzeria Lola? I. Mean for me

20:11

when I hadn't stepped out of

20:13

my lane. And as they say,

20:16

I think that's when people started

20:18

to say, well, you're Korean, you

20:20

should be making traditional Korean food.

20:22

But then to Koreans, I wasn't

20:24

making traditional enough Korean foods. But

20:26

I'm also an immigrant who is

20:29

a Korean American who moved here

20:31

to Minnesota when I was five

20:33

years old. It's and there weren't

20:35

a lot of Koreans here, And

20:37

out of necessity, my mother had

20:39

to make. This is six sort

20:41

of improvise. They some what she had,

20:44

So what might be authentic to me

20:46

growing up in Minnesota is a hundred

20:48

percent different from somebody. That would

20:50

be raised in Seoul or Pusan.

20:53

And so who's to say

20:55

that that kimchi, this or

20:57

that pasta dish ah isn't

20:59

authentic? It's authentically who I

21:01

am. When you have so

21:03

many different cultures, immigrating hair,

21:05

I call that progress and

21:07

evolution. The. Washington, D C.

21:09

Patty Henderson I got into similar themes but

21:11

about food from her native Mexico Patties, a

21:14

cookbook, author and host of the award winning

21:16

Pbs Tv series Paddies Mexican Table which he

21:18

saw my recipe for smoked Cheddar and Second

21:20

Enchiladas where it is set of the Philly

21:23

Mean wrapped in corn tortillas is stuffed into

21:25

man A Kati. Well. That

21:28

he hasn't thoughts I. Would have scream

21:30

that like a madwoman twenty years

21:32

ago if I had seen ah

21:34

Spain to last on a cookbook.

21:36

You have passed since he last

21:38

year. That as a sign says

21:40

i assess I think that the

21:42

American saw that in audience. and

21:44

you know mainstream. Everywhere

21:46

we've become so much more

21:49

signed an authentic to try

21:51

new things. I think there's

21:53

still the policing of what

21:55

it's authentic and why does

21:57

not authentic and they think

21:59

that that. Really harms.

22:01

In the cuisine is that be boss?

22:03

People. Have police me on

22:06

making Nutella families and am.

22:09

They're absolutely the Lisa and. Up

22:12

with them. I was once in the city of

22:14

tooth and I think we talked about these and

22:16

these Mexican coke was very famous were making would

22:18

they let them? I live in a post that

22:20

that. On. Instagram and people were

22:23

going crazy and I was like okay

22:25

so Mexicans now are not allowed to

22:27

eat Nutella and I say. That

22:30

Whitworth who was going crazy people.

22:32

Like over the internet because you. Know. Gonna

22:34

be light. like was it Mexicans know? He

22:36

wasn't Mexicans, He was a

22:39

non Mexicans. Policing Mexican is.

22:42

In Mexican authenticity? Would you find

22:44

that many times the people policing

22:46

are not. The. People.

22:50

Say or fact that I thought. I

22:52

feel like they full of on small

22:54

squares So I started thinking you know

22:56

Mexicans loves hamburgers. We love pizza as

22:59

we. Are obsessed with Italian

23:01

food to know in your next

23:03

research tribute. To go to Mexico

23:05

in media savvy and putting Mexico

23:07

is insane. We kill the past

23:10

that we we we could like

23:12

as them for does not exist.

23:15

As an awesome movie that leases

23:17

methods like not an assassin is

23:19

like a criminal past. That

23:21

say about your book.

23:24

In that regards to been. So.

23:27

Inspiring and insist opening I think

23:29

would suit be happening in the

23:32

world today. You know, trying all

23:34

things testing or things, trying new

23:36

challenges, putting flavors together and being

23:39

open while at the same time

23:41

you give credit to every person

23:43

in every place you go to

23:45

to every recipe you give. Do

23:48

credit you pass on twenty cents

23:50

in. At the same same you

23:52

make space for new things. Philadelphia.

23:56

I spoke with Killarney Palmisano to the

23:58

host of the Wh Row. The Tv

24:00

show Check Please Philly and Food editor of

24:02

for the magazine and Khailani asked a question

24:04

that brought it all together. If there's

24:07

one big lesson that we've learned tonight

24:09

from this taught him from your cookbook,

24:11

it's that food is constantly changing. It's

24:13

always evolving. So what is this cookbook

24:15

saying about American food here? and now.

24:18

Oh. I

24:22

guess I would say. As our food

24:24

culture becomes more diverse and more different ingredients

24:26

worth their way into the mainstream I think

24:28

that this is just a natural next step

24:30

in that process of pupils in to think

24:32

that new ideas and food come from fancy

24:35

chefs but in reality I think most new

24:37

ideas the food com from home cooks who

24:39

just end up with a couple a random

24:41

things in their pantry and decide to put

24:43

them together you. I was worried when I

24:45

put so the Chris on the cover my

24:48

cookbook that it might be nothing live on

24:50

recognize and then months the book came out

24:52

we went to. A Cheesecake Factory

24:54

at the mall and they have

24:56

it's silly. Chris posted this at

24:58

some stay factory as it will

25:00

now. So now I'm not as

25:02

that the revolutionary now it's everywhere.

25:04

Like that tells you something and

25:06

so is. This book is one

25:08

teeny tiny contribution to that process

25:10

and forces. or for that are

25:12

very happy. Coming

25:21

up several of the whole subject me

25:23

the lightning round sort of have a

25:25

lightning round of lightning rounds since the

25:27

a little silly and the little saucy

25:29

then be a blessing dig around. Time

25:42

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enjoy a nice glass of wine. don't pretend

27:58

to be an expert in wine. I easy

28:00

just one. the wine of high quality, delicious

28:02

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28:33

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balanced amazing with a pork tenderloin or butter

28:37

chicken. Elizabeth Arden a do a jump of

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had taught me a couple ice cubes in

28:41

a glass of bobo. If Zapopan says okay

28:43

then it's okay. Amid the mobile keen

28:45

on was refined elegant with bright fruit and about

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his food friendly as Red White and began going

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a basis for a full I'm Dan passwords.

29:39

Hey if you'll see with these live shows

29:41

you're listening to looks like their photos and

29:43

videos and events or my Instagram. Second my

29:45

highlighted most of my pics of were a

29:48

i was on tour says get some recipes

29:50

Many things possible that have been released for

29:52

free for you to sample. Final that follow

29:54

me on Instagram at the Sport for release

29:56

in this episode Six You'd love to see

29:58

this for so long. Well, we're doing

30:00

a live taping. it's just a few

30:02

weeks, a cookbook fest in Napa. Oh

30:04

off with cook book authors Cuckoo Saw

30:07

and Etti Massey as part of a

30:09

whole incredible weekend of food and drinks

30:11

feature accessed by Tyler Florence, cooking demos

30:13

and book side with many folks who

30:15

perjure in the show, slides, music lab,

30:17

podcast, havens and more. I can't wait

30:19

for this is gonna be amazing and

30:21

delicious so to see their! We also

30:23

just announced that lives for full taping

30:25

in London in September. All this is

30:27

another reason to follow me on Instagram

30:29

to it is exciting announcements. Details and

30:31

ticket info for all our

30:33

live events is at Sport

30:35

for.com/events. Okay,

30:38

Back to the best of the book Tour Will just

30:40

of the lightning round of Lightning round soon. But.

30:42

Now that I've written a cookbook of a

30:44

getting a lot of questions that just about

30:47

pasta shapes but also about cooking pasta at

30:49

the San Francisco. So Sam Sanders had one

30:51

that I hadn't gotten before. I.

30:53

Gotta ask you a really honest question.

30:56

Okay up to give me a really

30:58

honest answer. I'm ready. I'm not a

31:00

pastor expert. But. I have

31:02

gotten pretty good at the

31:05

classic, quintessential three ingredient tomato

31:07

sauce we all know. Canned

31:10

Tomatoes. Half stick

31:12

of butter for stick of butter. And

31:15

half an onion. Sometimes I add

31:17

red wine and baking grease like

31:19

this guy's and crazy. But last

31:22

week. And

31:24

be honest. Is. This right

31:26

is is wrong. Do you hate? we? Do you

31:28

think less of mates? Last week I got that

31:31

sauce ready and then I cooked my noodles in

31:33

the sauce because I was lazy. I

31:36

don't want another pots and I was

31:38

like I can make this work I'm

31:40

he is harder to come out. I'd

31:42

add some water but it was fine.

31:44

Then it's good Amazon would you do

31:46

it. I probably wouldn't. Listen

31:51

back to my response to Sam's question. I realize

31:54

that ten years ago, I might have been a

31:56

little more pointed. My response. Which.

31:58

Brings me to something that I got into

32:00

a loss. and those who comedian Andy Richter

32:02

as and he said i developed a bit

32:04

of a reputation is so too has some

32:06

perhaps rigid opinions about food. There's. Something

32:08

that that was that's interesting to me

32:11

about like sort of what you started

32:13

doing which is you know, like very

32:15

opinionated things about like where the cheese

32:17

goes on a cheese burger or what

32:20

the layers of a P B N

32:22

J should be. You are like almost

32:24

sort of doctrinaire about certain things and

32:27

then you do this book where you

32:29

were all rules are off. Like.

32:31

Do you see a conflict in that? Yeah, I

32:34

I, I hear what you're saying. Yes, interesting idea,

32:36

I think. Partly as sad as you get older,

32:38

I think we all sort of like. Lose

32:40

the hubris of youth and that So like

32:43

I think my general attitude now is is

32:45

less like this is the one right way

32:47

and it's more like here's how I really

32:49

like it. Yeah and you don't have to

32:51

like it but I think is really good.

32:54

And. He didn't push me any harder with that

32:56

answer, but not a rules will not be off

32:58

the hook so easily in a land. I spoke

33:00

with New York Times who reddit him see recent

33:03

Kim's veteran journalist as he came equipped with hard

33:05

hitting questions. You suggest that sees

33:07

should be on the bottom of the

33:09

Been or a cheeseburger? Guess because it

33:11

hits your mouth first but also keeps

33:13

the been from being Saudi, right? Oh

33:15

case. However, When

33:17

it comes to peanut butter sandwiches,

33:19

you suggested jelly. Peanut butter jelly

33:21

and that it seems to me

33:24

is sea birds in the same

33:26

seepage. You are trying to avoid with the

33:28

seas so. I'm. Gonna blow the lid off

33:30

at this. As

33:32

loud as in you write a Pulitzer prize winner

33:34

to interview. So what is that? They are that

33:36

fact that it's a difference and is so that.

33:39

I. Don't have this issue of the music

33:41

is where spot. I like. A hard

33:44

his bread. Some. That make my

33:46

he beans and supermarket white bread okay the

33:48

almost use my kind of sick premier magazine

33:50

like you know grape jelly I'm i'm lot

33:52

more like a bomb on while blueberry guys

33:55

which is kind of sick anyway as more

33:57

of a preserve focus and i like the

33:59

gillian. Bottoms it hits your tongue you more sweetness I

34:01

one of them a top to the what? the peanut butter

34:03

on the tops. The peanut butter doesn't get stuck the roof

34:05

of your mouth. Spoke I thank you thank clear that

34:07

out. And

34:12

and I love And these interviews

34:14

City Just quit. Lightning rouse. Do

34:16

it A are so you ready? I'm

34:18

ready. Whatever fertility my to remind or

34:20

perhaps. Ah, the past. The shape you

34:23

wish didn't exist. Angel

34:25

Hair Oh are also wagon wheels

34:27

and bow ties. In all the

34:29

bow tie that affects, ah, one thing

34:31

you never travel without. Food.

34:34

Okay what's your plane? Snacks: Peanut Butter and Jelly

34:36

sandwich. Okay Sammy I'm terrified of some him and

34:39

get on a plane and are going to be

34:41

that is a of her. I've heard that like

34:43

cynicism as a peanut allergy and a planes that

34:45

they'll say you know the been a better things

34:47

to soon as I bring almond butter if I'm

34:49

feeling nervous. Okay but I'm Yes I do not

34:51

get onto an airplane without a least three peanut

34:54

butter jelly sandwiches. Great most of which are you

34:56

before take off. Other. Burn

34:58

and all my bad as a tiny. What

35:01

I do that right? Favorite breakfast.

35:05

Or that's gonna be is something with eggs

35:07

and she's probably a probably a ham agencies

35:10

American cheese omelet which I will take the

35:12

omelet cut in half, flip it inside out

35:14

with the she's the outside and put it

35:16

inside a toasted English muffin to make a

35:19

sandwich. Nice cities. Okay, didn't say it again.

35:21

slower. Okay,

35:25

got it. Okay, it's a chef you

35:27

admire. Michael

35:30

Solomonoff. Oh yeah, okay until the

35:32

Celsius. A menu item that you'll always

35:34

order. Amended.

35:37

It depends a lot on my mood

35:39

but I I would say anything. Lotta.

35:42

A dumpling or for the wrapped in a flour

35:44

tortilla anything in a doughy and casement. So in

35:47

case miss always going to go to the top

35:49

of my legs alien case. Mega on how do

35:51

you get over making a mistake. You

35:55

know others by some as does I don't You

35:57

don't have a totally get over but it's like

35:59

I'm a. I'm kind of always

36:01

moving and I'm a high strung person. I'm

36:03

kind of say bay and my brain was

36:06

at a fast pace and ammo and an

36:08

i'm an idea person so I always have

36:10

more ideas and I just get excited about

36:12

the next thing. And as

36:14

can be a mixed blessing because sometimes I

36:16

have to be reminded to like stop and

36:19

appreciate the things that I've accomplished and of

36:21

always focus and with the next thing is

36:23

I'm But the flipside is that you also

36:25

don't dwell too much on your mistakes. Married

36:28

Dead. And not one last question. This and

36:30

that. the answer cannot be anything. About food.

36:32

Okay, But if you were

36:34

not a cookbook author Media star

36:37

Pasta inventor. What? Would you

36:39

be? Probably. A lawyer,

36:41

nascar. Fans,

36:43

I rest my case. Second

36:46

Boston Sand Sousa also had a lightning round

36:49

for me. About it. be fun

36:51

to do exercise of like I'm in a

36:53

name and occasion and you'll tell me what

36:55

the right pastas okay but I've got a

36:57

mass and clarifying follow up question or guy

36:59

you're hung over. Or

37:02

as you want sees his. Yes,

37:05

the doctor recommended server hang around Netanyahu

37:07

A and or dairy. Yup. It's

37:10

to be rich and creamy and very

37:12

satisfying but also very simple. The of

37:14

this you don't want to wear a

37:16

card number. I would go with the

37:18

cells with me so butter or got

37:21

our first date. Or

37:24

you know, wants them into messy good deal. You.

37:26

Don't want them is going to give you bad breath. Him. But.

37:30

He wants something that's gonna make the house smell really

37:32

good because you want the person the come in and

37:34

be impressed by, Go. This person who knows how to

37:36

cook. He was like you don't know this person that

37:39

well so you know you know you don't know how

37:41

adventurous of an eater they are right? right? So I

37:43

would go again on the side of something basic. Okay,

37:46

So. I would probably go. With.

37:49

The scallion oil bucatini with runny

37:51

eggs get raw scallions was I

37:53

guess miyake for breath. but I

37:56

guess we're both eating or whatever.

37:58

Zero examples: our fries. The Eye

38:00

of Ra Scallions. It's got a source

38:02

of the lemon juice, soy sauce and

38:04

butter so it's beautifully balanced And and

38:06

the but a runny egg on top

38:08

and you break the yoke and disagree

38:10

sensuous about a runny yolk? Eat out

38:13

there is you. Just adopted a senior

38:15

cat. Is

38:18

the carried in the past and no no no

38:20

no. So obvious. This is some sort of the

38:22

cook for myself to celebrate the fact that I

38:24

doubt that a cat. Yeah, I just wanted to

38:26

talk about liking your cats. I think everyone should

38:29

have. A

38:32

new to sit up that academy then. Are

38:35

we gonna talk about yes, What?

38:37

As you Because I've don't have

38:39

this live experience, he uses his

38:41

office in your cat. What? Harford

38:43

issuing a throwback to you? I'm

38:45

so. I think the doll and

38:47

mack recipe was one of the

38:49

ones in your book where I

38:51

was like. Now, But then I

38:53

made and I was like yeah, definitely

38:55

yeah. I really really I really like

38:57

that and it's a great.like even without

38:59

the past involved, I think it's company

39:02

and I think you have a kangaroo.

39:04

I buy it as a good reverb.

39:06

Agatha of A Robot. Or

39:08

final lightning round was in Seattle. Lindy

39:10

West Berlin is version was little saucier

39:12

than the others. I want to do

39:14

little S M K a little as

39:16

marry kill. We

39:18

We We can say it with we Can

39:20

the f word I can't say I. Assume

39:24

the air blessing. Culinary

39:28

thought. Marry. Kill. Or I.

39:32

See. I mean, he's tough as hell. Of.

39:35

All. Author: Of surfboards

39:37

preserve one and artichoke broccoli rob.

39:45

Our Kill broccoli robs and is a lot

39:47

of. There's a lot of things out there

39:49

that you can get similar flavors and textures

39:52

from. Ah, I'm. Artichoke.

39:55

I would marry because it's like as an ingredient

39:57

you can put in all directions. Again I would.

40:00

Wouldn't get tired of it and I would. Ah, The

40:02

ipad to preserve less as

40:04

his ear. This is games

40:06

as where he talks about

40:09

foods less. Love

40:11

Preserve. Memory spunky now. As.

40:15

Far as how about. What's.

40:19

What's the

40:21

same? soups?

40:23

I'm areas of flour tortillas. Oh

40:25

that's. Okay, our topic is

40:27

how lead flour tortillas. Bagels.

40:30

Oh. That's

40:34

very hard. I mean, It's

40:38

a legally binding and we went. Out

40:41

the sentence at the end of the south. I.

40:47

Mean. Honestly

40:49

of those three the one that I

40:51

eat the least often so I get

40:53

to like the it is our survive

40:55

as cold calculating way. Bagels,

40:58

To be the one that I

41:00

would kill but but I also

41:02

feel the comfort of bomb turning

41:04

my back on my heritage sorry

41:06

I'm almost as they get older

41:08

libya of if I eat a

41:10

bit a whole bagel. Before.

41:13

Six. Pm. I have to go

41:15

to bed the up. Like

41:18

a chance. That

41:21

affect my. What's

41:25

wrong with those of read suppress? So

41:28

I just can't I just can't matter. Bail the

41:30

women I used to death and then few flour

41:32

tortillas and casket telly. I. Mean, I

41:34

guess in Iraq I guess I would marry

41:36

Caskets Healthy because I do feel like I

41:38

love it. Saw agree of a relationship. We've

41:41

been through a lot together are you know?

41:43

so? I can't? I can't. They can't turn

41:45

my back on casket selling. That's.

41:47

Nice pasta, rice, bread,

41:52

Who. I

41:56

mean those are all really good or we are we

41:58

assuming like have club got high quality bread. Yeah,

42:01

the best version of each. Oh.

42:05

Yes, I

42:08

was doing some soul searching and I actually

42:10

think I would kill pasta and then I

42:12

was like I shouldn't say it because I

42:14

shouldn't. I'll get. Fired. Her

42:18

My Ss. I

42:23

mean I get at I would kill

42:25

rice. I

42:31

love I love all three of you things as the

42:33

point of this game is if if you're forced to

42:35

make hard choices. Daily

42:38

Mail. I'm not disparaging registrars.

42:40

Any of these. The for

42:42

me personally I guess I grew up eating rice

42:44

but he did. I get either like you come

42:46

from a food culture where races like an absolute

42:48

staples and but I just said is bonkers. Bullet

42:50

for me. I love rise bread and grub with

42:53

it at every meal of and so. And.

42:55

I like as between pasta and bread. I

42:58

guess I would marry bread because as and is

43:00

more variety to it's sort of like over the

43:02

long haul. That. As our be less

43:04

likely to get tired of it. As

43:09

and I had pasta pasta. From.

43:26

The second half of our best of the

43:29

Book tour episodes, some of my recipe developers

43:31

join me on stage A Things Can. Personally

43:33

when I used a sperm donor, you know

43:35

you get what you pay for. Announced late.

43:37

If I can pay for my kids to

43:40

be a little Italian I will assess, assess,

43:42

assess and we hear from you. We open

43:44

the Thor for few in it. And

43:46

I'm wondering the and you seem to

43:49

do public failures so well. And

43:52

yet you're putting that out there

43:54

public school and what actually went

43:56

behind the scenes for you that's

43:58

my sweet boy with? One shudder them

44:00

are recent episodes last week I talk for

44:03

the flavor chemistry Sienna labels me grievances has

44:05

natural flavors are we find out when natural

44:07

flavors actually are? I hope you'll also check

44:09

out recent episodes with zero times we read

44:12

or p a Krishna but her new cookbook

44:14

for kids and music producer Benny Blanco about

44:16

his cookbook those are all have now. Is

44:21

Worthless Produced by me alone managing producer

44:23

Mm or concerned senior producer on Race

44:25

O'hara and producer Johan M. S. the

44:27

shows edited by nervous he was additional

44:29

editing by to meet the Weather service

44:31

or engineer is Jared O'connell Music help

44:33

from Black Label Music. As for for

44:35

the production of Scissors Studios are executive

44:37

producer Nora Rishi and Collin Anderson. Until

44:39

next time I'm Dan Passion. And

44:42

this salads and Cologne Germany

44:44

reminding used to eat smooth.

45:01

Look around you can bunkers like

45:03

these on adulterated new cause use

45:05

cause electric cars maybe even fly

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of got. Okay

45:10

no plan cars but as soon as they

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get it will be on auto. Traitor Just

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you. Wait. Auto Trait. Meet

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