0:00

Famous Amos chocolate chip cookies are so iconic

0:02

that I just say Famous Amos and it's

0:05

like I can taste it. Each cookie is

0:07

filled with semi-sweet chocolate chips and a satisfying

0:09

crunch. And the word satisfying is very key

0:12

there because some cookies are crunchy and brittle

0:14

and I don't like that. But Famous Amos

0:16

has a deep tooth sinkable satisfying

0:18

crunch that I know and love. And

0:20

Famous Amos classic bite size chocolate chip

0:22

cookies are bringing back the original recipe

0:24

that everyone knows and loves. One

0:27

perfect bite, everything classic in a cookie.

0:30

Find Famous Amos cookies anywhere you buy

0:32

your favorite snacks. What

0:36

I would do is I'd cook

0:38

Sunday dinner. So if I made

0:40

two chickens on Sunday, then

0:43

I would work the second chicken into

0:45

something later in the week. And

0:47

it would usually be the chicken breast because we all like

0:49

dark meat. Because you're correct. Yes,

0:52

it's better. It just is, let's just

0:54

say that. It's just better. I

0:56

don't understand people who don't like chicken thighs. Like where

0:58

are you from? It's the best part of the chicken. This

1:01

is The Sporkful.

1:10

It's not for foodies, it's for eaters. I'm Dan

1:12

Paschman. Each week on our show we obsess about

1:14

food to learn more about people. And this week

1:16

I'm talking with Michel Norris, host of the podcast,

1:18

Your Mama's Kitchen, author of the book, Our Hidden

1:20

Conversations, and former host of NPR's All Things Considered.

1:23

Welcome to the show, Michel. Hey, Dan. It's great

1:25

to be with you. Now later in the show,

1:27

you and I are going to take some calls.

1:29

We have a listener who's calling in to tell

1:31

a story about her mother and something she's struggling

1:33

with. I think this conversation is going to be

1:35

very much in the style of your podcast, Michel.

1:38

Then we'll respond to some listener hot takes

1:40

and food disputes. But before we get

1:42

to all that, Michel, let's talk a little more about you. So

1:45

your podcast, Your Mama's Kitchen, I love

1:47

the origin story. This is the most

1:49

radio nerd origin story. So

1:53

it's right near and dear to my heart. Tell

1:55

us how this podcast came to be. Well,

1:57

as someone who spends a lot of time behind

2:00

a microphone. you understand the importance of the mic

2:02

check, that when you talk to somebody you need

2:04

to listen to them talk a little bit so

2:06

they can ride the levels, the engineer can match

2:08

your voices. My voice is

2:10

low and the standard question that

2:13

everybody asks is, what did you

2:15

have for breakfast? And

2:18

we're not a country where people

2:20

apparently eat big breakfast. I never,

2:22

you know, got the person who

2:24

ordered the Rudy Tutti Fruitti at

2:26

the IHOP with, you know, extra

2:28

bacon and a side of hash

2:30

browns. I was always talking to

2:32

people who would say oatmeal or

2:34

nothing, no one talked enough. And

2:36

so I came up with a bunch of other questions.

2:39

Tell me about your mama's kitchen was one

2:41

of those questions. And

2:43

it was the money question. Because

2:45

when you asked that question, people

2:48

always had a lot to say. And

2:50

it was not just what they said, it was

2:52

how the tone in their voice shifted. It

2:55

took them to a place in their mind, where,

2:57

you know, even if I was talking to them

2:59

about the accusations that they were facing for, you

3:02

know, absconding with money or something like that, whatever

3:04

it was, it took them

3:06

to a happy place, or at least a contemplative

3:08

place, even if the kitchen wasn't a happy place,

3:10

they were thinking backwards to

3:13

a younger version of themselves. And for

3:15

a long time, Dan, I thought this would be

3:17

such a good idea for a podcast. And the

3:20

theory of the case is that we

3:22

become who we are in large measure by

3:24

what we see, experience,

3:26

absorb, and witness

3:29

in our family kitchens. You

3:31

know, you kind of set me up perfectly here, Michelle. Tell

3:34

me about your mama's kitchen. Well,

3:36

you know, it's interesting, I've been having these

3:39

conversations during a period where my

3:41

mom has been struggling with some significant

3:43

health issues. And

3:46

I have been thinking a lot about

3:48

her kitchen because she's no longer fully ambulatory.

3:50

So she used to command

3:52

a space that she can't easily move around in.

3:55

And her kitchen was organized.

4:00

And her kitchen was a place

4:02

of adventure. I come from a

4:04

working class family. And

4:06

then my mom's a fourth generation Minnesotan,

4:08

which is an unusual thing for a

4:10

black family. My father's from Alabama.

4:13

So yeah, we grew up eating a lot of what

4:15

you would traditionally call soul food. Fried

4:18

chicken, collard greens, gumbo, red beans

4:20

and rice. But my

4:22

mom was also really adventurous. And

4:25

so she was trying new foods. She watched

4:28

a lot of public television.

4:30

She liked cookbooks. She was in the Book

4:32

of the Month Club. And she always

4:35

chose a cookbook as one of her books that

4:37

would come every month. And

4:39

she let my sisters also experiment in

4:41

her kitchen. Them through

4:43

food and me primarily because I was

4:45

the youngest who crafts. And

4:48

I think back now at how

4:50

much I appreciate that. Because for

4:52

someone who really valued organization

4:54

and cleanliness and kind of a Montessori

4:57

model of place for everything and everything

4:59

in its place. She let

5:01

us go in and just kind of wreck the space.

5:04

We had to clean up afterwards. But

5:06

she let us have kind of free reign

5:08

to try stuff. And I

5:10

respect that kind of parenting. Because I

5:12

know it took her way out of her comfort zone. Is

5:15

there a dish that you cook today

5:17

that reminds you of your momma's kitchen?

5:20

I think my mom went to make gumbo. We

5:22

loved New Orleans food. And we ate a

5:24

lot of it. Gumbo, jambalaya, turquoise,

5:28

red beans and rice. My family is

5:30

pretty crazy for gumbo. And yeah,

5:32

I mean, I make it every year at

5:34

Christmas and I have for decades now. I

5:38

changed during COVID and decided that it

5:40

makes them happy. So why do I

5:42

only do it at Christmas? And

5:45

so now I make gumbo

5:47

more often. And if people are standing

5:49

in the need of something, if they're

5:52

going through something, a pot of gumbo

5:54

can go a long way toward healing

5:56

a broken heart or take away

5:58

some of the... the sting from that. And

6:02

I think of my mom a lot when I'm

6:04

making gumbo because it's a it's a

6:06

long process and it

6:08

requires stamina and patience and

6:11

skill. And I

6:13

think after all these years I finally have

6:15

found the confidence that that she had in

6:17

the kitchen making a dish like that.

6:20

So now you're the one who reigns. Yeah

6:22

I share also. I mean my husband's a

6:24

great cook and we have three kids and

6:27

all of them can throw down in the kitchen. All

6:31

of them. So one more question before

6:33

we start chatting with some listeners. You've

6:35

now had a bunch of conversations

6:37

on your podcast with folks like Michelle

6:40

Obama, Glennon Doyle and Abby Wambach,

6:42

Matthew Broderick, Dean Nice, Jose Andres. You've

6:45

asked all of them about their mama's kitchens.

6:47

We all sort of intuitively know that many

6:49

people have sort of warm and fuzzy memories

6:52

I hope of food and growing up. But

6:54

is there something more than that that you've

6:56

learned or seen in having these conversations that

6:58

you've been surprised by? Let's just say that

7:01

not everybody has warm and fuzzy memories from

7:04

their kitchen. A kitchen for some people for too

7:06

many people in America are a place of want.

7:08

They are not a place of plenty. We should

7:10

also note that the kitchen is an emotional cauldron in

7:12

the house. So the kitchen is where we

7:15

have arguments and debates. If a

7:17

marriage is falling apart you probably start to notice

7:19

it in the kitchen by the way people communicate

7:22

with each other how they're a little terse, how they

7:24

don't listen to each other. So

7:26

I started this with the theory that we become

7:28

who we are as adults based on what we

7:31

see here experienced witness in the kitchen and that

7:34

absolutely is true based on the conversations

7:36

that I've had. All

7:38

right Michelle, I think we've established that you

7:40

are well qualified to talk about food and

7:42

to give some counsel to support full listeners

7:44

who have food related issues. We're gonna take

7:46

a quick break then we come back we

7:48

can open the phone lines. Ready? Looking forward

7:50

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10:08

I enjoy a nice glass of wine, but I

10:10

don't pretend to be an expert in wine. I

10:12

usually just want a wine that's high quality, delicious,

10:14

and not too expensive. And to me, that's Bogle

10:16

Family Vineyards. And here's the thing about Bogle, this

10:19

is a third generation family owned winery from California

10:21

that makes exceptional wines for about 10 bucks a

10:23

bottle. Bogle wines consistently earn Best Buy designations and

10:25

high ratings from wine enthusiasts. Let me tell you

10:28

something, the folks are wine enthusiasts, they drink a

10:30

lot of wine, they drink a lot of fancy

10:32

expensive wine, and yet they still keep giving great

10:34

ratings to Bogle. And Bogle Vineyards has

10:36

so many different kinds of wine, whatever your mood,

10:39

whatever you're eating, there's a wine for you. They

10:41

got this great Pinot Grigio that's crisp and fruity,

10:43

goes well with spicy foods, with fish. They have

10:45

a classic Chardonnay that's balanced, amazing with a pork

10:48

tenderloin or butter chicken. I like to

10:50

take that Chardonnay and do what Jacques Pepin taught me,

10:52

a couple of ice cubes in your glass of Bogle.

10:54

If Jacques Pepin says it's okay, then it's okay. And

10:56

there's the Bogle Pinot Noir, refined and elegant with bright fruit

10:59

and about as food friendly as a red wine can be.

11:01

You're not gonna believe it's only $10. Neither

11:03

will your friends if you tell them. So pick up

11:06

a few bottles of Bogle wherever you buy your favorite

11:08

wines. Please drink responsibly. Famous

11:11

Amos chocolate chip cookies are so iconic that

11:13

I just say Famous Amos and it's like

11:15

I can taste it. Each cookie is filled

11:18

with semi-sweet chocolate chips and a satisfying crunch,

11:20

and the word satisfying is very key there

11:22

because some cookies are crunchy and brittle and

11:25

I don't like that. But

11:27

Famous Amos has a deep, tooth-sinkable, satisfying

11:29

crunch that I know and love. And Famous

11:32

Amos classic bite-sized chocolate chip cookies are

11:34

bringing back the original recipe that everyone

11:36

knows and loves. One perfect

11:38

bite, everything classic in a cookie. Find

11:40

Famous Amos cookies anywhere you buy your

11:42

favorite snacks. Welcome

11:49

back to The Sporkful, I'm Dan Pashman and I

11:51

have a new Sporkful live taping to announce. Check

11:53

this out, we're gonna be at Cookbook Fest in

11:55

Napa and there's gonna be a

11:57

live taping on Saturday, June 22nd. I'll be in conversation. with

12:00

Kushboo Sha and Eddie Massey, two incredibly

12:02

talented first time cookbook authors. And

12:05

they're gonna reflect on the ups and downs of

12:07

the cookbook process and what they learned along the

12:09

way. It's gonna be a great conversation. And this

12:11

is just one part of an incredible weekend of

12:14

delicious food and drinks, live entertainment, cooking demos, cookbook

12:16

signings, and more. A lot of past pork full

12:18

guests who you and I know and love are

12:20

gonna be there, including Andrea Winn, Brian Terry, and

12:23

Nick Sharma, Chef Tyler Florence is gonna be there

12:25

cooking. I've never been to Napa, but I

12:27

mean, everyone says that in June it's gonna be just gorgeous.

12:29

I am really excited for this weekend. So I

12:31

hope you'll join me if you get the general

12:33

admission ticket for Saturday, June 22nd. That

12:36

will include this pork full live taping. Get

12:38

info on the whole event at cookbookfest.com. Okay,

12:42

back to the show. And I'm once again joined by Michelle

12:44

Nara. Hello, Michelle. Hey, Dan. All right, we're gonna take a

12:46

phone call now from a listener who has a story about

12:48

her mama's kitchen. And then later we'll respond to some listener

12:50

voice emails. You ready? I'm ready. Hi,

12:53

who's this? Hi, this is

12:55

Sarah from Montreal. Hey, Sarah. So we

12:57

gotta get a proper level on your voice. Michelle,

13:00

do you wanna do the honors here? Sure. So Sarah, I

13:02

host a podcast that always begins with the same question. And

13:04

here it is. Tell me

13:06

about your mama's kitchen. And if you can,

13:09

close your eyes and describe it for us.

13:12

The kitchen was a really big open space

13:14

with a sort of breakfast bar in the

13:16

middle. It was pale cream,

13:18

yellow, and gave on directly to the

13:20

back garden, which was really beautiful. It

13:23

was what I've come to know now as

13:25

an ingredient kitchen. So not a lot of

13:27

stuff already ready, but a lot of haphazard

13:29

kind of ingredients and spices and things to

13:31

throw together. And it was

13:34

like so many other kitchens, the default

13:36

place where we all ended up.

13:39

My mom, she was a really elaborate

13:41

cook and it was really

13:44

healthy, delicious food that

13:47

annoyed me when I was a kid and

13:49

teenager. And now as an adult, I have

13:51

a newfound appreciation for it. And also it

13:54

was chaotic, but I would be sitting in

13:56

there for hours and talking to her while

13:58

she cooked. And I was allowed to sit on the counter. even

14:00

as a kid, which I realized when I

14:02

went to other households, it seemed like a wild thing.

14:06

But yeah, that was one of the perks. It

14:08

was a pretty hands-off kind of

14:10

free parenting kind of kitchen. I

14:12

didn't grow up with a sit-on-the-counter kind of kitchen, I'm sure. My

14:15

mom was not having that. Your

14:19

mom drew the line at that. She would let you experiment,

14:21

but no one's sitting on the counter, right? No. So,

14:24

Sarah, in Montreal, what prompted you

14:26

to call in today? I've been

14:28

in this sort of odd battle with my mom

14:30

where it's a one-sided fruit fight, which is

14:33

a bit of a strange dynamic. My

14:35

mom has dementia. She got that diagnosis

14:37

about two or three years ago, but

14:39

we had seen progression beforehand. And I

14:41

think they prepare you for a lot

14:43

of the elements that are going to

14:45

come with that. So I think I knew that at some

14:47

point she'll probably forget my name, or there may be some

14:49

sort of key elements of our past that wouldn't come up.

14:53

And I was bracing myself for that, but

14:55

I have found myself, for some reason, finding

14:58

a lot of the smaller changes a lot harder

15:00

to deal with. And one of the big ones

15:02

has been food. So her taste buds

15:04

have changed dramatically. Her way of eating

15:07

and her relationship to food has really changed.

15:10

And on top of it, she

15:12

doesn't remember a lot of those food

15:14

memories that I have. So

15:16

we've been having this sort of

15:18

one-sided argument multiple times because she

15:20

keeps forgetting we have it. So we

15:23

were kind of looping back about salad

15:25

dressing specifically, which I've come to realize had

15:28

quite a symbolic meaning in our household. Why

15:31

was salad dressing so important? Was it because it

15:33

was homemade and it was a key part of the meal?

15:35

Yeah. So my

15:38

mom was really eclectic, and she

15:40

was a total hippie. We

15:43

grew up in a mostly vegetarian household.

15:46

We probably had salad for most of our meals,

15:48

and she had the stain for bot dressing. And

15:50

I remember even as a kid being told that

15:52

bot dressing would not enter our household, and it

15:54

seemed sort of like blasphemy. And so it's one

15:57

of the very first things that I think we've

15:59

been having. I think she taught me to make.

16:02

And it felt like a very big point

16:04

of pride. And that has changed

16:06

really dramatically. I mean, I think one of

16:09

the last times I went to visit her,

16:11

she was eating Cheez Whiz with a spoon.

16:14

She buys only dressing, and she's not

16:16

buying the fancy stuff. She's buying ranch

16:19

or things that sort of would have seemed

16:21

completely scandalous to me up until fairly recently.

16:24

And when I've initially sort of teasingly brought

16:26

it up with her, sort of like, oh,

16:29

someone has changed. She told

16:31

me she's always thought dressing, and this has

16:33

always been her favorite. And

16:36

so the first time that she said

16:38

to you, no, I've always liked

16:40

this dressing as my favorite, what

16:42

went through your head? Initially,

16:44

it was kind of an anger and

16:47

a defensiveness, and then a bit of a self-negation

16:50

or feeling a little silly for feeling that

16:52

strongly and trying to remember that it's her

16:54

memory. And so the first time was sort

16:56

of more confusing than anything else. I

16:59

mean, depending on the day, there are days where I feel a little

17:01

bit more frustrated than others, but now

17:03

just feels mostly sad.

17:05

It feels like it's a

17:07

really fundamental part of

17:09

who she is that isn't there anymore,

17:11

and not only isn't there anymore, but

17:14

has gone from her memories as

17:16

well, which has felt like a really specific

17:20

form of loss. But it lives on in

17:22

you. It does. Where

17:24

did she come from? What is her origin

17:26

story? She came

17:29

from Southern Ontario, a

17:31

really rough family upbringing

17:33

with seven kids, a

17:35

military father, and all of the sort of

17:38

stuff and trauma that came with that. So

17:40

it was a pretty difficult past. And

17:42

she got away when she was in her

17:44

early 20s, moved to France to

17:47

study at La Surbun for a

17:49

couple of years, and then came

17:51

back and basically only ever

17:53

spoke French after that, even

17:56

though it was not her first tongue. And

17:58

we were also really big on children. Something

18:00

family with and have a very close

18:02

relationship with her actual family. So we

18:04

had this sort of group of twenty

18:06

twenty five people that would be coming

18:08

around four five times a year and

18:10

be a big feast and a decent

18:12

of labor of love. And she has

18:14

the time than it was. Never rust.

18:17

So part of the chain she made to kind

18:19

of like you say, Distance. Yourself

18:21

from her own upbringing was making the

18:23

quality of the meals a priority was

18:25

just about all these mouths to feed.

18:29

Or thought a lot of care and lot of

18:31

concern for the ingredients of the healthiness of it.

18:33

and that was sort of attempt to move away

18:35

for the way she grew up. Yeah

18:38

it into all kinds of things in

18:40

the way that she wanted to let

18:42

us also soon as he send my

18:44

brother and I both to this vegetarian

18:46

no sugar cane for a better part

18:48

of our childhoods which sounds like it

18:50

should have been kind of alice had

18:52

for kids not when say a a

18:54

vegetarian. No sugar can the as a sasha a

18:56

higher level of intensity from your mom in terms

18:58

of the her belief that I that I was

19:00

right there. At. That went that took it into the

19:02

read. The. disclosure.com

19:06

or a cab I've added know

19:08

that existed I disinfectant a. Vegetarian:

19:11

no sugar, some. Rusher out. Early.

19:15

And you would think that we would have

19:17

gotten like kicking and screaming and completely resisted

19:19

that like I went for i think side

19:21

summers and when they decided to close it

19:23

down I this absolutely heartbroken. I would say

19:25

well as those are probably some of the

19:27

best leagues of my life and this is

19:29

coming from someone who is intensely addicted to

19:32

cigarettes in as I could get my hands

19:34

on it. So. Sarah may

19:36

make an observation. It sounds

19:38

like. Your. Mom went through a period

19:40

of reinvention. See. Created a

19:43

new life for herself. I don't I'm

19:45

not a scholar of dimension, but oddly,

19:47

because of the work I do through

19:49

another project, I'm. I've. learned

19:51

something interesting about dementia and

19:53

alzheimer's you're short term memory

19:55

starts to recede and your

19:58

long term memory become becomes

20:00

much more vivid. And

20:03

what can happen is, you know, you're

20:05

losing the shared memories, but there

20:07

can sometimes be an opportunity to

20:09

explore a part of someone's past that

20:11

they didn't much talk about, because

20:14

that suddenly is much more vivid

20:17

in their mind. And I wonder if some

20:19

of the foods that she's craving or enjoying

20:22

are the things that she remembers from

20:24

a previous time in her life. Yeah, I definitely

20:27

missed that. From her own childhood. Yeah,

20:29

thanks for that. There's something nice with

20:32

that train of thought also with the idea that

20:34

she would be getting comfort from that, because

20:36

talking about her past or a lot of the

20:39

feelings connected to childhood in her past

20:41

were not sources of comfort.

20:44

So yeah, that feels really nice

20:46

to think about, that there's something

20:49

pleasant for her there, as opposed to,

20:51

you know, what often feels like

20:53

she's given up. And I don't think that that's

20:55

true. But I think because I was sort

20:57

of raised to see food as a

20:59

correlation of how much you care about

21:01

yourself and your body and the people

21:04

around you, that it's been hard to

21:06

not correlate the her changing tastes with

21:08

her not caring to

21:10

hold on to those parts of her at all

21:12

anymore. I mean, I'll just say I don't

21:14

think you should criticize yourself for this

21:16

being something quote unquote small, because it

21:18

isn't just about salad dressing. Like, you

21:20

know, you're sort of watching this person,

21:22

your own mother, kind of disappear over

21:24

time. And the salad dressing

21:27

is just the most salient example of a

21:29

much larger, difficult issue, which I

21:31

think you have every right to feel

21:33

emotional about. So I don't think

21:35

you should fault yourself for that. But beyond that, Michelle,

21:38

what are your thoughts? I had

21:40

the same instinct, Dan, you know, when you

21:42

said that it's small, if you're

21:44

feeling it, it's not small. And

21:46

it's occupying a space in your heart. So

21:49

it's, it's valid. And you know, those shared

21:51

memories that you have with parents are like

21:53

little tethers on a ladder that

21:55

you've built together, you know, going forward.

21:58

And when those tethers Disappear

22:00

You. You worry that that link between

22:02

you, that ladder, that bridge you. Know. Whatever

22:04

it is might get more wildly

22:07

and. One of the things you can

22:09

in and maybe some of us try to do is

22:11

to try to find. New Tethers in L

22:13

She's taken. She's this now. Is there

22:15

something sheath since you can build, bill,

22:17

gather and be I hit So would

22:20

probably say given the childhood that you've

22:22

described as probably anathema to you, I

22:24

can imagine maybe that's it. As nice

22:27

as elusive Now I panic. They eat

22:29

like the eight year old kids said

22:31

I I wanted to the yeah now.

22:34

My advice you sir is to go

22:36

out and get yourself a killer Sees

22:38

was at a Sleeve of Crackers and

22:41

take over your mom's place and sit

22:43

together and he had some. She has

22:45

risen crackers and advertising stories. Yeah,

22:48

I like that. I think instead of

22:50

resisting and being so gripped on the

22:53

specificity of the dressing or of the

22:55

thing that we were eating, that really

22:57

what I missing is just some sort

22:59

of bonding over eating something. and at

23:02

this tiny can be something unpretentious. Maybe

23:04

that even in a. Part. Of the

23:06

joy is that we're kind of letting

23:08

go of our senses hippie pretenses and

23:10

we get to. Those be indulged

23:13

and ten you'll have kids eating maples

23:15

but it's he says and sometimes even

23:17

hippies needs he is with one of

23:19

us are upset. Fact: That probable

23:21

that. Thanks guys are. It's our pleasure,

23:24

thank you so much for for reaching out

23:26

of sharing such a personal stories are really

23:28

appreciate, it must left. There.

23:35

Was so interested me so I really appreciate

23:37

what you shared about dementia the up the

23:39

idea that older memories could become so much

23:41

more. Visit to the Assad Is it props

23:43

from a sort of being transported to an

23:45

earlier time of her life? and some sense?

23:48

Yeah, army

23:51

soldier the switch gears a little bit

23:53

because google little bit lighter now we

23:55

ask for for listeners the said did

23:57

food debates food related disagreements really Relationship

23:59

issues hot takes culinary adjudication here. Okay,

24:01

right So we're gonna listen to some

24:04

voice in my motion listeners and then

24:06

we are going to opine you ready?

24:08

Mm-hmm Let's go. All right. Let's hear

24:10

from the first listener Hello,

24:13

sparkful. My name is Shannon and

24:15

here's my dispute My

24:17

boyfriend Lee and I have

24:19

been in dispute over shipping

24:21

cookies and pastries in liquids

24:24

like milk and coffee One

24:27

example of this is that

24:29

my boyfriend will dip a buttery

24:32

savory flaky

24:34

croissant in like a cup of coffee

24:36

and Then finish

24:38

the coffee left after

24:40

the flaky croissant has just saturated

24:42

that last Sippers or

24:45

two of coffee and I think

24:47

that's so gross. I am

24:50

Not exactly a purist, but I am Mostly

24:53

an anti-dipper. I think there's certain

24:55

exceptions like dipping Oreos in milk

24:58

or dipping biscotti in your coffee But

25:01

I really think that the line needs to

25:03

be drawn So we've been asking actually people

25:05

in our network including

25:07

grocery store clerks coffee bar

25:09

uses gas station attendants So

25:11

I wanted to get your take and see

25:13

what your thoughts were you show what

25:15

do you think? I don't know I

25:18

think if the person is dipping into

25:20

their own cup Then

25:22

have at it But

25:24

if they're dipping into someone else's

25:26

cup or something that shared that's

25:29

another matter And I draw

25:31

the line perhaps between

25:33

coffee and milk because

25:36

the problem with dipping in milk is

25:39

They leave behind those sort of schmodes. I know

25:41

I just made up a word, but you know, you know I'm

25:44

talking about like little things that

25:46

are flaky bits and crumbs loaders Sloaters

25:48

in the milk and then the milk

25:50

you sometimes it turns a different color

25:52

and and I'm not a big milk

25:54

drinker So maybe that is my my

25:57

problem with that. But actually dipped

26:00

in coffee is eccentric,

26:03

but I don't feel like we need

26:05

to write a citation on that one. I'm

26:09

with you that you have dominion

26:11

over your own beverage. So

26:14

if you want to have flakes of croissant in

26:16

your coffee, that's up to you. The

26:18

one technique I'll recommend is something I call

26:20

the sidecar because I don't like crumbs and

26:22

bits in my drink. So

26:24

you take like an espresso cup or like a

26:26

small juice glass and fill that with milk or

26:29

coffee. And then you have

26:31

your normal size drinking cup and then you

26:33

have a little mini dipper sidecar cup on

26:35

the side and that's for dipping and that

26:37

way your beverage remains unadulterated. I like that

26:39

if there's a potter that's listening you have

26:42

an idea for creating like a little saucer

26:44

situation where you've got that's right. Yeah, I

26:46

like that. Alright, so I think we're

26:48

basically the same page on the dipping

26:51

question. Should we dip into the next

26:53

one? I couldn't help it. Sorry. You've

26:56

said way between a few things before

26:58

haven't you, Michelle? Alright, what's next? Hi,

27:04

Sporkful. This is Coleman from Maryland and I

27:06

just wanted to share my kind of hot

27:08

take, which is that

27:10

if somebody tells you they don't

27:12

like a specific food and your

27:14

response is, well, you

27:17

just haven't had a good one yet, then

27:21

you weren't responsible for getting that person what you

27:23

consider a good one because I think

27:25

it's kind of presumptuous to say that and

27:28

so you better be ready to back it up. I

27:30

like Coleman. I like

27:33

everything about that. I had not thought

27:35

about that

27:38

but I do like that rule. I

27:40

think it's a very good rule and I'm trying

27:42

to think in my life, I have probably been

27:45

guilty of that. Like we eat crabs all

27:47

the time. My husband's from Maryland, like

27:50

Coleman, and people say, I don't like crabs,

27:52

they're just so, you know, hard to eat

27:54

and they're so messy and there

27:56

are times when we have invited because we do

27:58

big crab, crab fabs. right

28:00

tables covered with paper you

28:03

beat up your food with a mallet but I like

28:05

that idea it's the opposite of

28:07

yucking someone's yum if you're gonna attempt

28:10

to yum someone's yeah then

28:12

you gotta back it up with hard evidence

28:14

for instance it drives me crazy when people

28:16

say when I don't like angel hair pasta

28:18

I think it just goes from like raw

28:20

to mush instantly and people say oh you

28:22

just haven't had it cooked right now to

28:25

me the window of optimal cooking time for

28:27

angel hair is like point three seconds that's

28:30

your fear about right about it is

28:32

it's like flash right like right

28:34

you got a blanch it basically yeah

28:36

you need one of those pasta things where you just dip

28:38

it in the water instead of like actually boiling it right

28:41

so if you're gonna give me that nonsense about angel hair

28:43

that you need to bring me some good angel hair so

28:45

that's a challenge to all you angel hair defenders out there

28:48

all right that's a good rule and should

28:50

there be a statue of limitation of the time

28:52

limit like if you're gonna yum someone's yuck you

28:54

have to like come with it you have to provide

28:57

some sort of exculpatory evidence within a

29:00

specific period of time yeah I think

29:02

it depends on the exact

29:06

logistics of it you know someone's saying oh I haven't

29:08

had a good beignet you're like well you have to

29:11

get a beignet in New Orleans and if you're not

29:13

in New Orleans well then you know there may be

29:15

logistical hurdles to be overcome all

29:17

right should we do one more sure I'm up for

29:19

it hey I'm

29:21

James from Oakland California and my hot take is

29:23

that fruit should not be I think

29:26

one of life's true joys is biting into

29:28

a juicy fresh piece of fruit and feeling

29:30

refreshment I'm thinking cool peach

29:33

on a warm summer day or ripe

29:35

strawberry atop your favorite dessert the

29:37

exact opposite of refreshing is heating up

29:39

those delicious crisp fruits and turning them

29:41

into a warm mushy mess I

29:44

believe this is why fruit pies when served

29:46

hot are deeply unsatisfying and they're so often

29:48

accompanied by a scoop of ice cream you

29:53

can see Michelle's face right now I mean I

29:58

was I

30:00

was putting together my

30:02

rebuttal. But

30:05

then when he said no fruit pies, I mean,

30:08

okay, I'm a pie

30:11

person, first of all. I love

30:13

a pie. I love pie. I mean, I'd rather

30:15

have pie than cake on my birthday. Strawberry

30:18

rhubarb pie is heaven on

30:21

earth. Blueberry peach

30:23

pie. You know, this hot take

30:25

is in conversation with Coleman because

30:27

I just feel like I want

30:29

to go to Oakland and introduce him to

30:31

a really good pie because, you know, if

30:34

you've only had a no shade McDonald's, an

30:36

apple fritter from McDonald's or something like that, you might

30:38

think that pie is not so great. But

30:40

you know, a really good homemade pie. But even

30:42

beyond that, when he was talking about peaches, have

30:45

you ever had a grilled peach? So

30:47

good. So good. You

30:49

know, someone introduced me to pineapple

30:51

on a smoker, you know, like a

30:53

Traeger smoker. Right, right. Just throwing a

30:56

little pineapple. Oh, man. It's

30:58

amazing. But the other thing I would

31:00

say is that I love pie

31:02

too. I love fruit pies. I

31:04

almost always want a fruit pie with a

31:06

crisp topping or a crumb topping, preferably

31:09

like double thick as whatever the normal way of

31:11

doing it is. You know, I kind of want

31:13

to raise you like 50 percent crumb topping, 50

31:15

percent fruit filling. But

31:17

I actually like pie room temperature. I

31:19

might like it better room temperature than

31:22

warm because I like when

31:24

the crumb topping and the crust, when

31:26

the butter is a little bit firmer

31:28

in there and it's a little bit

31:30

more dense and tooth sinkable, I

31:32

like that denser pie crust filling

31:34

feeling. So my advice to James would

31:36

be try pie room temperature. Let's

31:39

get him a good pie with a crumb topping

31:41

and let's make it room temperature and see if

31:43

he can come around to that. Yeah, I appreciate

31:45

James's point of view. And I'm not going to

31:48

try to yum up his yuck. He

31:50

is entitled to his opinion.

31:52

He's ahead of his opinion. He may never

31:55

come around to all warm fruits and hot fruits,

31:57

but I feel like, you know, you're

31:59

missing out here tonight. It is a pie and those

32:01

sandy the room temperature pie but a big

32:03

schoolboys be my top. Let it sit for

32:05

minutes. would get the ice melts a little

32:08

bit, get soft, mix it all around a

32:10

little bits. I mean that's just gotta be

32:12

good on Camellia. Be a heartache right here.

32:14

Let's do it. I don't really like pile

32:16

A mode. You. Waited until

32:18

this log in to this country since

32:21

some revealed is Michelle Dell while. I

32:24

like a whip cream on my pie or

32:26

just plain pie. Okay, to I was actually

32:28

my wife Jd the same. She finds a

32:30

paradise where pies basically too heavy to read.

32:32

It just doesn't. It melts into the pie.

32:35

I don't. I don't want all that. Sort

32:37

of it was out the lambs your started with hot

32:39

pie the I've started with room temperature pie that a

32:41

pretty the scoop of called a few months or most

32:43

much slower. Now. Since

32:46

snow. Not convinced that you know

32:49

new to them at the sidecar rise

32:51

as terrific apply. Apply.

32:53

And then ice cream. But. The movie spoon

32:56

back and forth and led by the midnight

32:58

semites possibly see like that together. You just

33:00

don't like them physically. you don't like the

33:02

ice cream melting known to get an item

33:04

I don't want it on my pi I

33:06

wanted over there are it? or that's fair

33:08

I can be to the middle about said.

33:21

Well me Cel Nora has been a real

33:23

pleasure haven't you? The podcast is your mom

33:25

as kids in Ghosts of a New Book

33:27

out cause our hidden conversations What Americans really

33:29

think about race and identity? Thank you so

33:31

much. The great team with his thank you.

33:34

I want some time. Now to suspend me too

33:36

much as soon. As

33:40

you have a food feud with a friend or

33:42

family member may be a heartache you want to

33:44

share. Please let me know right to me at

33:46

hello. As for full.com a pc you in an

33:48

upcoming episode again as Hello. As for for.com. next

33:52

week on the show itself with a flavor chemist

33:54

about what it means when you see natural flavors

33:56

listed on ingredients list when it when as happy

33:58

as that's also walk me through of experiments

34:00

that you too can try at home. That's next

34:02

week. While you wait for that one, check out

34:04

last week's episode with actor Claudia Jesse from the

34:07

steamy Netflix show Bridgerton. Claudia shares what she liked

34:09

to cook and eat when she lived on a

34:11

boat and I have her take a BuzzFeed quiz

34:13

to determine which Bridgerton character she is. That

34:16

one's up now, check it out. Sporkful

34:18

is produced by me along with managing

34:20

producer Emma Morgenstern senior producer Andres O'Hara

34:23

and producer Chantel Holder. It was edited

34:25

by Nora Richie. Our engineer is Jared

34:27

O'Connell. Music help from Black Label Music.

34:29

The Sporkful is a production of Stitcher

34:32

Studios. Our executive producers are Nora Richie

34:34

and Colin Anderson. Until next time, I'm

34:36

Dan Pashman. And I'm Susan. And

34:38

I'm her best friend Rachel. She's the

34:41

one that introduced me to the Sporkful. We're

34:43

calling from Scotch Plains, New Jersey to remind

34:45

you to eat more, eat

34:47

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