0:03

This is a Global Player original

0:06

podcast. Hi Mark. Hi

0:08

Gabby. Another week has flown by so we're

0:10

taking you through what we've been up to with the

0:12

weekend edition of the Sports Agents. The

0:22

Sports Agents. With Gabby Logan

0:24

and Mark Chapman. And

0:27

on Tuesday we had a kind

0:29

of alternative look ahead to the Europe's through

0:31

the prism of the media. And we

0:34

had two guests on Mark to discuss what

0:36

ended up being quite a big discussion after

0:38

the Iceland game. The morning papers, the

0:40

day after, led with England's defeat

0:43

but most of them were the picture of

0:45

Bukhaya Saka who was a substitute only used

0:47

after 60 minutes, 65 minutes I think he

0:50

came on, certainly not wholly responsible

0:52

for that England performance. So

0:55

how and why did that

0:57

happen and what are the

0:59

significances behind the decision to

1:02

use those photos. Henry Winter

1:04

and Jordan Jarrett Bryan, both

1:06

sports journalists joined us. I

1:11

think for me I was very conscious

1:13

of not doing the kind of faux outrage

1:15

thing when this happened because people

1:17

are saying they're surprised and they're shocked and oh my

1:19

god this is, I wasn't surprised.

1:22

I wasn't expecting it. I must admit when I

1:24

first saw the back page I was a bit

1:26

like wow. But

1:28

there wasn't shock, it wasn't like a where has

1:30

this come from moment for me and

1:32

for many people that I know and work with.

1:35

It's problematic on one level

1:38

but on another level it just doesn't even make

1:40

sense. Bukhaya Saka only played for 20 odd

1:42

minutes. He wasn't the worst player on the

1:44

pitch by a mile. And whilst I do

1:46

accept to some degree the picture editor's job is

1:48

to try and find A, the

1:50

best picture that's going to get attention

1:52

from buyers alongside what

1:54

works with the story. I

1:57

think there's a wider responsibility now that editors have

1:59

to take. on in understanding why

2:02

using someone like Bakaisaka as the front,

2:04

as the imagery of England's failure on

2:06

that night is problematic. And I don't

2:08

think it's good enough now to just

2:10

say this was a really good picture,

2:12

so we thought it was best. I

2:14

think there's a responsibility now that editors

2:16

have to understand and take and accept

2:19

that we are talking to

2:21

millions of people out there. And what we

2:23

put on the front and back pages of

2:25

our papers has an impact in how they

2:27

think and see the world. Is that Jordan,

2:30

sorry to just cut in, when

2:32

you saw the back page, now

2:34

is that one off the back

2:36

pages? Because actually, for a lot of people

2:38

I suppose when it really hits home, is

2:40

when you see all the different examples put

2:42

together. And then you go, oh. Yeah,

2:46

if it was a one off, if it was one

2:48

paper, if this was a one off incident, you may

2:50

be forgiven for giving them a

2:52

little bit of leeway and blah blah blah.

2:55

But when you do see two, three papers

2:57

and the national broadcaster on their homepage putting

2:59

it on, first of all, like I said,

3:01

it just doesn't make sense to use him

3:04

from a purely footballing point of view. There

3:06

were at least five players on that night

3:08

that would have summed up England's poor performance

3:10

better than Bakaia Saka. But secondly, when you

3:12

think of the implications of using someone like

3:15

Saka to essentially say this failure

3:17

is being fronted by this individual,

3:19

we thought we were on some

3:21

sort of progress journey when Raim Sterling called the

3:23

media route. I remember about two years ago, I

3:26

think it was the last Euro, sorry, four years

3:28

ago, England won a game, I think it was

3:30

four nil. I think Saka scored

3:32

one, maybe two. And the back

3:34

pages were all of different players. Saka was by

3:36

far the best player in that game, forgive me,

3:38

I forgot on the game. He was the best

3:41

player by far. And all the back pages were

3:43

of everybody else. So there's form here for me.

3:45

And it's a bit like, what are you doing?

3:47

There's a pernicious nature to this as well. Just

3:50

go back a little bit and kind of

3:52

work out how these pictures come to be

3:54

there. Because I had always assumed that you

3:56

file your copy. Usually you're doing this

3:58

from the ground if it's a match report, obviously. And

4:00

then you kind of leave

4:03

the next stage to the sports

4:05

editor, the picture editor, headlines

4:07

written by somebody else. Is that the case?

4:09

Yes, but I also think there's an omence

4:11

of accountability on the part of the journalist.

4:13

I've always felt that anything that's got my name

4:15

on it, whether it was at the independent

4:17

for eight years, the Telegraph for 21 or

4:19

the Times for eight years, particularly in social

4:21

media, which are the first

4:23

port of call for sort of football fans on social

4:25

media, you'll come onto and say, why have you got

4:28

this headline? Absolutely, you've got an accountability of it, it's

4:30

got your name on it. And I

4:32

think in the digital age is that you can get headlines changed.

4:34

And I've done that down the years, the headlines.

4:36

I mean, you might be too precious, but you

4:38

say, well, that headline's inappropriate. I mean,

4:40

Jordan rightly raises what happened at

4:43

the last year or so, and everyone I

4:45

think is incredibly aware of that. If my

4:47

memory serves, the media quite rightly was absolutely

4:49

outraged by what had happened to the three

4:52

players and were incredibly supportive of them. And

4:54

they got sent privately some of the messages

4:56

that they got sent. And

4:58

it was absolutely horrific. So I

5:01

do feel this is slightly nuanced.

5:04

And if we're being balanced, can we

5:06

be balanced on this? I

5:08

mean, the vilification that other players

5:10

have received down the years, like

5:13

Wayne Rooney, like David Beckham, like

5:15

Paul Gasper, like Harry LaGuard in

5:17

recent times. But what I

5:19

completely agree with is that the media has to

5:21

be far more aware when using

5:23

images of a kind of sucker in particular.

5:26

I mean, as Jordan says, he definitely wasn't

5:28

the worst player on the pitch. The sports

5:30

agents. The

5:35

sports agents. With Gabby Logan and

5:37

Mark Chapman. And

5:41

then on Thursday, we had our netball special. A

5:44

couple of weeks ago, it was announced that there

5:46

would be a new look super league for netball

5:48

next season in 2025. And

5:50

this meant a few teams, big teams, had

5:52

been dropped from the roster. The

5:55

number of players in the squads had been dropped.

5:57

And this caused a great deal of fallout, a

5:59

lot of emotion. In this decision mark.

6:01

So on this episode we tried to

6:03

cover every single angle. We spoke to

6:06

people who were behind the decision to

6:08

restructure it. We spoke to people who

6:10

were behind player wealth us. We have

6:12

lots of messages for me because so

6:15

many of these had about this and

6:17

were angry about it. and we also

6:19

spoke to a member of team bus

6:21

kidding Torben. When. The news

6:23

came in it was in some in

6:26

that we had thought was gonna happen

6:28

and knowing thing. no inkling of a

6:30

thing of the Asa new three weeks

6:32

prior and she had to have to

6:34

keep that silent until they had said

6:37

that players need to know two days

6:39

before the public. Mean I think for

6:41

me know in forty eight hours before

6:43

the public you have no process. There

6:45

was no process that we could do.

6:48

it was just we got towed just

6:50

for training session. We had a lot

6:52

of crying. With had a lot

6:54

of emotions and. Then we

6:56

had to do a train is us and get ready for

6:59

game which was gonna be our last name of the season

7:01

at home. So. To. Know

7:03

that with forty hours and then to try

7:05

and prepare for game which is gonna be

7:07

the last time people and wilderness eating Laughlin

7:10

the team buff law it was quite difficult

7:12

and and emotions were to slow and and

7:14

I think it really did show in our

7:16

performance as well. I mean a no Sirens

7:19

came out and they they won and they

7:21

did a brilliant job and we also know

7:23

that they're losing their franchises. Well so it

7:26

was such as I said I didn't see

7:28

among those in that's Racing at Bought. It

7:30

was a moment that both teams could really

7:32

harness. And I think it did show

7:34

on the court where people and depression and

7:37

you know the high end the drive. but

7:39

at the end of the day we just

7:41

knew was a team bus goodspeed doing where

7:43

are they going to be playing what is

7:45

that on pets to see to looking like

7:48

once the Psni restriction netball see police start.

7:50

If I'm honest, I have no idea

7:53

when I'm not, a communication has been

7:55

quite scarce. Yes, As

7:57

players we've of the see been.

8:00

Trying to arts what what's next? How even a

8:02

move forward? do we know which clubs the be,

8:05

know what areas a lot of players have moved

8:07

from. Different. Regions ted

8:09

completely different. see. And.

8:12

Got a job, got a house,

8:14

and now that team is gone.

8:16

Now you have to move again.

8:18

If we known earlier, Than

8:20

we could you know put lashed together am

8:22

I think his Sif hardware. Were

8:24

all in a place where. It's

8:28

at the end of the season and

8:30

we know that the the windows wanna

8:32

open soon. So you've given us free

8:34

for weeks to try and get our

8:36

life together and you can't do that

8:39

within four weeks. we need months. A

8:41

choice of going semi pro to pro

8:43

is not as easy as some people

8:45

may seem been. I've been through the

8:47

process with with a football club and

8:50

is on one hang on a minutes.

8:52

The professional wage might not match what

8:54

the sort of semi pro and your

8:56

other job doors. So. That I mean

8:58

their whole load of lust is not easy.

9:01

Just l that I that I will. The

9:03

fragility as you're describing now as that Korea

9:05

Yes, you. Have a career used on a

9:07

degree. If you have a career, is on a

9:09

career path and you have potential. Earnings

9:11

later down the line the a good as

9:13

far exceed what you can add as networks.

9:15

He could have to make a big sacrifice. Potentially to stop

9:18

your career on you to perhaps. In two

9:20

years time have the same thing happen again. Yeah, And

9:22

we never know what the future may hold.

9:24

But I think making sure that everyone has

9:26

a backup plan to a backup plans I

9:29

think it's you'd never know what's gonna happen,

9:31

never knows his injury, you never know is

9:33

what it's gonna take. But the thing, a

9:35

lot of players are in that same position

9:37

of what happens next. A huge hole in

9:39

two minds about whether or not you will

9:42

be. A. Professional player in the

9:44

future. i really want

9:46

to be i'd didn't come to the

9:48

sports assists stop when someone tells me

9:50

to stop i really wanna move over

9:53

into that professional league but equally this

9:55

yeah have a seat taken on the

9:57

player coach well as a technical coats

9:59

and I've really enjoyed that this year and

10:01

I really want to take that going further.

10:03

So I'm just really trying to, you know,

10:06

get in there so I can really learn the

10:08

graft of a coach and what that means, but

10:10

also still being a player because I still got

10:12

some legs in me. And

10:15

I'm still ready. The

10:17

sports agents. The

10:20

sports agents. Let's talk to

10:22

the managing director of the netball super

10:24

league, Claire Nelson. I think

10:27

it would help if you go back

10:29

to when this process

10:31

started and why it was felt

10:33

necessary to change the way super

10:35

league is structured. So for our

10:37

business sport, as all women's sport

10:39

is at the moment, we're all

10:41

looking at professionalization. We have seen

10:44

that finally there is a credible

10:46

conversation around the commercialization drive and

10:48

monetization of women's sport about increasing

10:50

and driving that visibility, leveraging that

10:52

platform to then raise the commercial

10:54

value of women's sport to be

10:56

able to reinvest back in. We

10:59

won gold at the Commonwealth Games

11:01

in 2018. We

11:03

held a World Cup in Liverpool in 2019. We

11:06

then went into what was our biggest ever

11:08

season opener, nearly 10,000 people attending. And

11:12

all of this just ignited. We've got

11:14

a successful international team that is really

11:17

inspiring a nation that's commanding

11:19

huge visibility across our broadcast

11:21

partners. And we've got this domestic

11:23

game that could unlock so much more of

11:25

our sport. We need to improve the product

11:27

on and off the court. We

11:30

are not a female version of a

11:32

male sport that has a federation at

11:34

the centre that can write checks for

11:36

millions. While it's obviously been a collaborative

11:38

process and you've asked for 10 months

11:40

ago, how

11:42

much did people know, how

11:44

transparent were you about what the

11:47

criteria were? And were you surprised

11:49

at the reaction when the news

11:51

broke because of that? A little

11:53

bit, but I always knew that

11:55

this would hurt and I always knew that change

11:58

would be difficult. just

12:00

thought for the few weeks, as much

12:02

as I wanted the announcement out there,

12:04

I was like, there's going to be

12:06

little girls that are upset by this.

12:09

But I've always said, and I'll keep

12:11

saying it, is that I'm able to

12:13

talk about these difficult decisions as long

12:15

as I know that they're right. And

12:18

they are right for the future of

12:20

the sport. This is not about chasing

12:22

money and doing something shiny at the

12:24

expense of the pathway or grassroots or

12:26

people. It's absolutely not. This is about

12:29

creating a strengthened integrated infrastructure. But

12:31

I do feel like we've been

12:33

very, very clear that the arena

12:35

product is critical to that, that

12:37

financial sustainability is critical to that.

12:39

What didn't Team Bath, Bath University

12:41

or the South-West as a whole,

12:43

not have that the others did?

12:46

They couldn't meet what we call the

12:48

expected operating standards. And they know that.

12:50

And quite crucially, there is

12:52

a lack of an arena

12:54

there. But there were a number of

12:56

other areas to what I've already talked

12:59

about that we needed to make sure

13:01

our clubs had in terms of that

13:03

long term sustainability, that financial plan, commercial

13:05

partners, that strategy arena. What we've also

13:07

said is that we are not turning

13:09

the pathway off in the South-West is

13:11

that we have offered a license to

13:13

Team Bath into that region. And if

13:16

they don't accept that England Network will

13:18

operate it. As part of

13:20

our announcement, we also said that

13:22

we were launching a new what we call

13:24

a feeder league, under 23 league that will

13:26

be enhanced competition. Players

13:28

within that will be available for call up

13:31

as replacement players into the super league. And

13:33

we are offering that opportunity. So Bath's pathway

13:35

isn't disappearing, it's actually strengthening. Do

13:37

you feel under pressure? Absolutely.

13:40

We've got the weight of the world

13:42

on our shoulders here because this means

13:44

something to a lot of people. And

13:46

it's been really difficult to read comments.

13:49

We have felt all of this. It

13:51

has been difficult watching the speeches at the

13:53

end of the storm game and the bath

13:55

game. And I cannot think

13:58

about Simon's last game without. by

14:00

voice breaking because it's difficult. But

14:04

it makes me more determined to do

14:06

this and the intent behind this, the

14:09

work, the thinking, the strategy. This is

14:11

huge. We don't have people writing those

14:13

checks. We all want

14:15

more and better for our sport. And we believe that this

14:17

is the right way to do it. And

14:20

if a 13-year-old in the sirens crowd at the end of their

14:22

final game came up to you and said, who do I support

14:24

now? I'm

14:26

not sure you could answer that, could you? This is about

14:29

supporting netball. Which club

14:31

inspires you? Which players do you want to follow? Let's

14:34

go on that journey and let's follow the story

14:36

of our competition. And the league is

14:38

going to run for a few months a year, but our content

14:40

is going to be rich and fallen if you follow any of

14:42

our seers. Now, when we're

14:44

talking about maternal health and we're talking

14:46

about what it means to be a

14:49

female athlete and we're trying to forge

14:51

a new world for women and girls

14:54

through harnessing the passion and power of sport, there's

14:56

going to be something for everybody to hopefully get

14:59

behind. The sports agents. Well,

15:01

the next time you hear from us on the sports agents, we

15:03

will be in Germany. And we'll be there for a

15:05

while, covering the Euros, of course. So we would really

15:08

like to hear from you. We

15:10

want your questions on the Euros, I

15:12

think, Mark, don't we? Yes, yes. We

15:14

don't want questions on the Olympics. Those

15:16

later when we move to Paris. We'll

15:20

do that later. Your questions on the

15:22

Euros. Are we talking this

15:24

specific Euros? Euros in general?

15:27

Well, you could do Euros in general, really. I

15:29

mean, probably not a great thing to

15:32

say before going to cover it. But

15:34

the 2014 Euro is so cumbersome, really.

15:36

And the group stages, you know, you

15:38

lose eight teams at the end of

15:41

the group stages. Again, you

15:43

know, without harking back to the good old days. It

15:45

used to be four groups of four and

15:47

16 teams. And that was a fantastic format,

15:50

was that? So you can, I mean, you

15:52

can reminisce if you want on previous Euros.

15:54

Wayne Rooney is everywhere at the moment because

15:56

it's 20 years since the Euros,

15:58

where he first onto the... seen in

16:00

those Portugal Euros. So whatever you

16:03

want, yes, this Euros, previous Euros,

16:05

the fact that the women won the

16:08

last Euros, go wherever you want with

16:10

it. The Sports Agents at global.com. The

16:12

Sports Agents at global.com if you want

16:14

to get in touch with us. The

16:16

Sports Agents with Gabby Logan and

16:19

Mark Chapman.