0:02

This is a Global Player original

0:04

podcast. They were all very sceptical, all the

0:07

team staff and I said, yeah, but can you imagine if

0:09

that was you? You would be

0:11

the only one that knew you hadn't done anything

0:13

and there would be no chance of fighting it

0:15

and your life and career would

0:17

be over. Today

0:20

UK cyclist Lizzie Banks is

0:22

here to talk about a

0:24

contaminated test that turned her

0:26

world upside down. A ten-month, £40,000

0:29

battle to clear her name

0:31

and a landmark case with

0:34

implications for both UK and

0:36

world anti-doping authorities. It's

0:38

been a fight which has ultimately

0:40

destroyed a career without a conviction

0:42

and taken an enormous toll on

0:44

an athlete's mental health. So

0:46

are the rules around contamination fit

0:48

for purpose? How closely do athletes

0:51

really monitor what they're putting into

0:53

their bodies? It is the balance between

0:55

the desperate need to prove cycling is

0:57

a clean sport and the protection of

0:59

its athletes just a little off.

1:02

Welcome to the sports agents. The

1:12

sports agents. With Gabby Logan and

1:14

Mark Chapman. Hi

1:19

Gabby. Hi Mark. Good weekend for your

1:21

team. Yes,

1:23

a surprisingly good weekend. Although

1:25

it's never calm, is it?

1:27

And now there's all the

1:29

drama around whether Eric

1:32

Tenharg will go or whether he'll stay. I

1:34

thought he just conducted

1:36

himself really, really well on Saturday

1:39

at Wembley in the aftermath. A

1:41

source from the, it wouldn't

1:44

be the boardroom at Wembley, would

1:46

it? But wherever the hierarchy of

1:48

Manchester United were celebrating post-match,

1:50

apparently very muted

1:52

celebrations because it

1:55

kind of puts a little bit of a fly

1:57

in the ointment, doesn't it? Well, they've got themselves

1:59

in the right. really. And there

2:01

are a whole number of reasons that play

2:03

into that. But I do think what is

2:05

interesting and what they're going to have to

2:08

rescue a little bit here is

2:10

that they have come in to fix,

2:12

in a verse of commerce, the footballing

2:15

side with all this experience

2:17

at the elite level of sport.

2:20

A listener sent me a message

2:22

last night saying, I thought they

2:24

were meant to remove the pantomime. And

2:29

actually, this first big thing, it feels like they

2:31

made a little bit of a mess of that.

2:33

And it does feel a bit like a pantomime.

2:36

Yeah. And I think overall, when you look at

2:38

the season as a whole, Manchester

2:40

United winning and obviously Manchester City,

2:43

therefore not doing back to back double there

2:45

is also, because obviously they had the treble

2:47

last time, is a positive

2:50

thing on the whole team.

2:52

Absolutely. Absolutely. You could do five

2:54

weeks worth of podcasts on the

2:57

United situation, 10 hard,

2:59

but also actually what

3:01

it means to be a fan and

3:04

what you want as a fan, because

3:07

he's won two trophies in

3:09

two years. And within the domestic

3:12

game, only Pep Guardiola has won more.

3:15

So what more do you want? So what

3:17

more do you want as a fan? Now, yes,

3:19

they finished eighth and yes, they lost numerous games

3:22

in the league and yes, they had a negative

3:24

goal difference. But his argument is he's

3:26

won two trophies in two years.

3:28

I mean, it does get

3:30

right to the heart of what you want.

3:33

I thought exactly the same thing as a

3:35

Newcastle fan. I'd love a trophy. It'd be

3:38

amazing to get hands on a trophy. And

3:40

actually, if you said to me, have

3:43

a trophy, but just finish outside as

3:45

we do now outside the European places

3:48

for the next few seasons, I'd probably take

3:50

that if we're going in the right direction on

3:52

the pitch. It kind of goes back to that discussion we

3:54

had With Henry Winter about Anj,

3:56

Poster Kogliu and Tottenham and the meaning

3:59

of fourth place. Which is worth go

4:01

by Solicitors haven't listened to. Speaking of

4:03

a lean in your weekends. At yeah

4:05

I was. I was another bad assets except up

4:07

in Manchester doing that. The Great Manchester

4:09

Run Switzer cover half marathons.

4:11

And ten case and but with a

4:14

keen eye on what was going. On

4:16

Stateside on Saturday night and he was

4:18

fields which is a big meat in

4:20

the Bowman Miles. And that the

4:22

big Meat and American, the Diamond

4:24

League circuits and Great Britain's middle

4:26

distance. Athletes we've talked about if or how

4:29

we have this really incredible pool of talent

4:31

of the moment and they shown says for

4:33

we need sets give a huge congratulations just

4:35

care for breaking Steve Crumbs thirty nine year

4:37

old pretty small record which by the way

4:39

was a world record. Back to the days

4:41

I'm are. Not only that that beating? Yes.

4:43

To being the Brits and because we will

4:46

have Michael Johnson on this podcast very soon

4:48

and key witnesses to do have no idea

4:50

De lis this how how long this is

4:52

best three well as a result of this

4:54

is pretty good. The both to I'm Michael

4:56

Jones and will tell us all about his

4:58

plans to revolutionize. The athletes can earn a

5:00

living in the school and compete but his

5:03

big thing and it has been for the

5:05

last he is is the sport really needs

5:07

to focus on it's head to head and

5:09

these rivalries to create these characters. And

5:11

with that, the fifteen. Hundred meters long as

5:13

it was a mile of weekend, but a

5:15

nice ancestral circuit. It's fifteen hundred meters. Yeah,

5:18

Keeping the Brits and and just car have

5:20

been kind of trust. Talking about six ankle

5:22

braces? mainly doing it. Must

5:24

have mirrors Obviously I am. I have

5:27

been the only one racing for minister

5:29

as the so when someone most of

5:31

them you know device to participate other

5:34

than just follow his saw you know

5:36

it's something different. is not in a

5:38

he's he's kind of directing it said

5:40

to Josh But Josias reign supreme. In

5:43

the World Championships last year in Budapest

5:45

and. thought battles with by the way

5:47

new goalie and and take whiteman just

5:49

behind in fourth and fifth was at

5:51

a fantastic race and it just set

5:53

some brilliantly this summer's olympics because anybody

5:55

to learn about being the brits and

5:58

say all the kind of us Norwegian

6:00

athletics equivalent to the Kardashians. There

6:03

are lots of them. They have reality shows

6:05

galore. They've fallen out with their father, accusing

6:07

him of all sorts of things. So some siblings have gone

6:09

with the father who was the trainer

6:11

and some siblings have split. So

6:14

it's a real drama going on

6:16

with the family, but this athlete,

6:18

he's the most talented one currently,

6:20

Jakob, and he's the one that's been

6:22

kind of leveling all the talk towards Josh Kerr, saying,

6:24

you know, I'm not scared of you, I'm coming for

6:26

you. So that was amazing. You know,

6:28

you talk about how athletics needs

6:33

those rivalries, because then it will

6:35

cut through. And when we

6:37

were doing Cheltenham a couple of months

6:39

back, and I was talking to a

6:41

racing journalist at Cheltenham who was talking

6:43

about how Cheltenham needs to change a

6:45

little bit, because they have too many

6:47

racers that are very similar, and therefore

6:50

you can place your horse in the

6:52

one where you think you're most likely

6:54

to win, rather than where you'll get

6:56

a rivalry. And the example he gave

6:58

that day was it is like Inga

7:00

Brinson and Josh Kerr being told at

7:02

the Olympics, there's a 1400 and there's a 1600.

7:06

Brilliant example. And one of them going,

7:08

okay, right, I'll take 14, and the other takes you here,

7:10

and then they both get a goal. And

7:12

I thought, A, that's a brilliant example, but

7:15

B, that shows

7:17

that this rivalry will cut

7:20

through from

7:22

just athletics into other sports, and it will

7:24

have a lot of eyeballs on this number.

7:26

And it's going back to that kind of

7:28

rich period in our history when Steve Crown

7:30

was reigning with Seb Coe and Steve Overt,

7:32

and we had all these great men's

7:35

middle distance runners. We've always kind of managed

7:37

to have women popping up along the years.

7:39

Obviously the last time a gold medal was

7:41

won in the eight or

7:43

1500 for the women was Dame Kelly

7:45

Holmes. Keely Hodgkinson has

7:47

been the perennial bridesmaid. She's won three

7:50

global silvers now, backed about four if

7:52

you include the Commonwealth Games, two world

7:54

championships, one Olympic silver, a Commonwealth silver

7:57

beaten by Mary Moore, and a couple

7:59

of those. Who she beat at to

8:01

win and eight hundred. Meters where she looks

8:03

Absolutely supremes She did she does he

8:05

look like had more the tanks. Does

8:07

a look on Tv host in Society? There's

8:10

a look in her physique even that says

8:12

I am not winning silver again. This is

8:14

not happening to me again Alex I'm getting

8:16

tingles thinking about it because sees I've loved

8:18

her since I first saw her on Indoors

8:20

and she won a very surprising doors which

8:22

is like nineteen and eighty can discuss. Discuss.

8:25

Ah, Yes, he does. no fear. She races

8:27

with though fishy so has to tactics kind

8:29

of are just go out and grab this

8:31

by the scruff the next. But then you

8:33

got Shimmery T just behind her and then

8:35

we've got. We've talked about C B girl

8:37

who's this impressive seven year old sex and

8:40

yet it's. It's getting very exciting so

8:42

she's only twenty two is as Yashili

8:44

hostesses. Is there any indication that her

8:46

taxes will. Do. Anything other

8:49

than stay the same boat. In mind.

8:51

what you said about the perennial bridesmaid.

8:54

Bob. But always wanted to dog rubberized bicycle

8:56

for that will editing shows because I see

8:58

the tide. Six for her. And

9:00

the Tactics sector and into

9:02

Britain as well. And their

9:05

eyes. What? Will be a fascination

9:07

unison over the coming months. Yeah and the

9:09

and the thing going back to car and into

9:11

Britain as as per his a know kind of

9:14

even within. Like the I've I've I've been to

9:16

a second behind him on the bench or ten meters

9:18

behind him on the bench. He will have him on

9:20

on the him strike because of cause speed. A Nazi

9:22

that didn't even need happens he was ahead of into

9:24

Britain into Britain just couldn't catch him. With

9:26

cheating, Hoskins and the Eight Hundred these days

9:28

is like a sprint site to love. Sprint

9:31

in addicts. They go out that and he

9:33

and the rounds. They might play a little bit

9:35

with tactics, but I just think in that final. Should.

9:37

It's almost going be the second time trial

9:39

and I just go out there are run

9:41

eyeballs out and just you know hang on

9:43

to the lead and and is gonna be

9:46

so exciting and. To. Remedy Eight hundred The men's eight.

9:48

Hundred and when there was the world's Record

9:50

back in London and twenty twelve and a

9:52

said co said it was the greatest race

9:54

he'd ever seen. Them center on ice and

9:56

will talk with the still stands and I

9:58

are kind of feels like. We might, we

10:00

might have that kind of got out of race.

10:03

yeah I mean maybe know world record Percent were

10:05

going to be seeing something really special. I'm in.

10:07

didn't win, even talked about it. Did Isis miss?

10:09

had a creditable third. Place there, but actually

10:11

already tense? I think is those middle distance ethics

10:13

for Great Britain which we haven't had for a long

10:15

time. No. very exciting and and you get to watch

10:18

them go to the rounds and in ice gonna be

10:20

it's gonna be great. Shoppers were going to have them

10:22

all on. The sports agency says I

10:24

was up Up Up Up Up Up

10:26

Up Up mods or decides to mars.

10:28

let's just focus on getting Michael Jobs.

10:31

lot of ads lose that about us

10:33

double but several move on to hopefully

10:35

Britain's but medalist a Paris and we

10:37

we got an email from and home

10:40

Tomlin who listens to assign with so

10:42

many sports already covered on the podcast

10:44

have you considered David episode on Sidewalks?

10:46

While funny to say that I'm some

10:49

because our next since V will be

10:51

about cycling on some. Of the

10:53

sport's biggest issues aren't you just

10:55

discuss things including suicide which business

10:57

may find distressing and who upsetting.

11:00

Lizzie Banks. On the schools

11:02

agents next season's. Schools.

11:09

With. Job site and

11:12

unmarked less. Lizzie

11:15

before we say but when when you get

11:17

the. Coal. Just

11:19

take this way. You felt your career

11:22

was off before all of this started

11:24

to happen. Oh my goodness, that's

11:26

yeah, a difficult question that had a

11:28

couple of years. Weights have been really

11:30

to school. I had a concussion and

11:33

then I had lung coded and information

11:35

around my heart's you to that's an

11:37

I had just got back to racing

11:39

the women's Dear Italia and I really

11:42

felt like I was. On a

11:44

really good upward trend, I was just

11:46

about to sort of tap into that Lizzie

11:48

Banks I used to be and you know,

11:50

I thought it was a real chance as

11:53

making the Olympic team and twenty Twenty four

11:55

as Wow. So after all of these

11:57

months and well, years really of struggle, I.

12:00

Was just on the cost of being backfire.

12:02

I wanted to be. An. And

12:04

the Lizzie Banks dimension that you wants

12:06

to get. Birch Bayh was a lazy

12:09

Banks who had one stages out the

12:11

derides Italia. Yeah. Exactly. and that

12:13

the time we didn't. Have. The Women's

12:15

Tour de France and say that was the

12:17

pinnacle of women's cycling and I want to

12:19

stay there. And twenty nineteen and a stage

12:21

and twenty twenty and yeah I had podium

12:24

results and some of the biggest race as

12:26

and I truly believe that I could be

12:28

and was one of the best cyclists in

12:30

the wild. I just had an awful run

12:32

of luck, some bad luck and. then when

12:35

you would just getting back these.

12:37

Two adverse analytical findings were

12:39

returned last July. Tennis a

12:41

little bit. About. What

12:43

it is like to receive that news in the

12:46

first instance. It absolutely.

12:48

Horrifying. Say you receive an

12:50

email from in my case

12:52

Uk Anti Doping you cat.

12:54

And it is this mass.

12:57

Of balls and read. Highlighted

12:59

writing and it says you

13:01

may have committed anti. Doping

13:03

rule violations. You may be subject

13:05

to a two year ban and

13:07

than as ten pages and only

13:09

them sorry last paragraph right at

13:11

the very and says you should

13:13

get legal supports which I think

13:15

it's obvious by that point in

13:17

not documents or not email that

13:19

eager to does it go into

13:21

specifics at that stage or does

13:23

it as he says he says

13:25

you may have committed an offense,

13:27

in which case. Every.

13:30

Will go through your mouth. Yeah, I

13:32

mean you don't even see the May

13:34

when you're reading this right? Because especially

13:36

and cycling. I was listening to podcasts

13:38

about boxing the other day and there

13:40

are clearly problems in boxing with in

13:42

a the the case of Ryan Garcia

13:45

the Moments but in Boxing. Just

13:47

as a typing violation doesn't know

13:49

public chains about the opinion of

13:52

the athletes and in cycling. Even

13:54

if you're found to have done nothing

13:56

wrong, your career is tainted is a

13:58

month. You knew that. Right where Are

14:00

really that? Knowing that even just receiving. This

14:03

email every my life is. Over.

14:07

Now use even begun to look at the legal

14:09

process. I mean before I be received the email

14:11

because I received an email from his doping saying

14:13

please can you concerned that this is your email

14:15

address We have an important correspondence to send keeps

14:18

us and I was socks islamist away from hi.

14:20

I'm on a bike ride just. Panicking.

14:22

Like just yeah, I'm It was

14:25

the most agonizing five minutes had

14:27

you ever spoken to other cyclists

14:29

who's been through this before? Know.

14:32

But. I. Was very aware of

14:34

those that had and I was very aware

14:36

that it always turned out badly. And it's

14:38

interesting. Because that been a pretty high

14:40

profile case in cycling very recently case

14:42

of sorry Boss story Recently to that

14:45

time about a month and a half

14:47

before and. Seat have this very low amount.

14:49

Of naturals, but of breast cancer medication.

14:51

Again, it could be used as masking

14:54

agent. A star is a high enough

14:56

concentration of it. And I remember saying

14:58

to all of my teammates they were very skipped

15:00

school or the team sauce and I said yeah

15:02

but can you imagine if that was he a.

15:05

He. Would be the only one that new.

15:07

You hadn't done anything and there have been

15:09

no chance of fighting it and your life

15:12

and Korea would be over. you'd said. That

15:14

at said that and I've repeatedly said

15:16

that because we were always say it's

15:18

hassle. I took every single precaution. I

15:21

possibly could that because I've

15:23

been unwell. The. Past years I

15:25

had to take medication. I have

15:27

a couple of chronic conditions are

15:30

have to take medication to keep

15:32

myself healthy and little did I

15:34

know. that pharmaceutical contamination is a

15:36

big thing and during my research

15:38

this I also learned as the

15:40

scale of water contaminants in which

15:43

I don't wanna scattered the jesus

15:45

our view but it. Is terrifying.

15:47

Everything that people in just they excrete.

15:49

it doesn't get filtered through the say

15:51

little, some of it doesn't, a lot

15:53

of it doesn't and direct takes. which

15:55

is why I tested positive for the

15:57

one of the most highly used substances.

16:00

In the well you know you. Will know

16:02

somebody is. On Direct X, fifty percent of

16:04

the population will take them. At some points,

16:06

everybody who's elderly merely takes them. You know,

16:09

for high blood pressure hot days? of course

16:11

you. You've learned all of this in in

16:13

this period, I seem that you, yeah see,

16:15

dived into an area that you never thought

16:18

you'd have to, no doubt about because. Us

16:20

you would doing everything you. Thought possible

16:22

to be a clean Us States

16:24

which means that any supplements he

16:26

take his ah approved Yeah exactly.

16:28

The something called Informed Sports and lastly

16:30

I would say day one of anti

16:32

doping school is supplements can be an

16:35

art and sometimes even purposely tainted with

16:37

banned substances to do not take them

16:39

unless you really happy and if you

16:41

have to take. Them only take what

16:43

could bats tested supplements which means they

16:45

are tested for old on substances before

16:47

leaving the factory and they fought and

16:49

inform sport that diskette you keep records

16:52

of which back says he's taken was

16:54

I always did and I have used

16:56

by think side supplements which only will

16:58

ones that helped specifically with the medical

17:00

conditions that we had. Three Thai Food

17:02

when you were performing at the levels

17:05

you wants to be performing up his

17:07

russell to typical day or a typical

17:09

week that you can give is an

17:11

insight. Into into how you

17:13

have to live your life.

17:16

Constantly. Under the glare

17:18

of. Drugs tested. I.

17:21

Think it becomes so ingrained in t.

17:23

That you don't think that it's unusual. It's only

17:25

when other people come to your house member they

17:27

don't know about it. you know other people at

17:30

my house and that taking the medication or always.

17:32

Check if it's a and medication

17:34

because I know. That. There's a risk

17:36

that is, they've got something in my

17:39

house. Then they could than cause contamination

17:41

for me, but that's direct farm. Six

17:43

Books Tomlinson. Runs every

17:45

night. I think

17:47

I was so almost paranoid about missing

17:50

a test fronted acting was I never

17:52

did, By the way, stop. When we

17:54

moved into a house in France, I

17:56

bought two sets of numbers. I made

17:58

it so obvious where we were. Doorbell

18:00

I plugged in the doorbell next to my bad

18:02

since I couldn't possibly mess it's we have a

18:04

of power outages and I haven't Note I always

18:07

put on the door saying knock on this for

18:09

him I will be here in actually one time

18:11

that they came as I had happened in the

18:13

had to knock on my bedroom window to to

18:15

bite me up but I was. A random

18:17

test? By won't random tests? Yeah, By the

18:20

you see, I. Actually oh it's use i

18:22

the agency that that that were under your

18:24

sport there and then ultimately it's water who

18:26

intervened later. Yeah exactly. Oh what a had

18:29

a right to appeal. Say this one you

18:31

can't typing had done the task and said

18:33

they were the ones to snuff press but

18:35

I didn't sleep. probably because I was away so

18:37

bad that could com and I didn't want

18:39

to miss them and where we lived. As

18:41

like the. Wouldn't wouldn't boards that you you walk

18:43

long to get the house and for had any

18:46

noise I would wake up. And. Think

18:48

of cause and they've been here that

18:50

want to miss them so especially when

18:52

I was at hotels with cycling at

18:54

races. You know I'd wear earplugs in

18:57

a d So worried about not hearing

18:59

on today? Think that it's so important

19:01

and there was a situation just a

19:03

week before I got this notifications without

19:05

having dinner with my husband in Switzerland

19:08

for our wedding anniversary. We went

19:10

to pay at the bar and there was

19:12

a sign saying that meat from New Zealand

19:14

lands new Zealand may contain traces of growth

19:16

hormones and I was terrified by it because

19:18

it's and has such high standards for me

19:21

and say never thanks So to decide to

19:23

if this to keep the record just in

19:25

case hidden that we've had a vegetarian. Manners

19:27

oh my gosh, such as as.

19:29

The level of of commitment that

19:31

it takes to be a clean

19:33

athletes? Yeah, just I think. Described

19:35

brilliantly their death distress, the consideration

19:38

the you know the thought the

19:40

has to go into every single

19:42

day of your life constantly. And.

19:45

Yet. This. Email drops

19:47

at tells you. That you

19:49

are suspected of he returned

19:51

test which are contaminated how

19:54

quickly we were. When it doesn't

19:56

say contaminated of it's as you have returned

19:58

address on article findings and. How could he?

20:00

Did you find out what was in. Your.

20:02

Sample Well I said what was in my sample.

20:04

One of them was an awesome medication which I

20:07

take and I've taken for years and this asthma

20:09

medication is allowed up to a certain. Threshold

20:11

and I was under that threshold.

20:13

But the problem is once you

20:15

have a direct it in your

20:17

system even if it's a contamination

20:19

amount then the threshold for disaster

20:21

medication some zero. So had an

20:23

adverse analytical finding. For. A contamination

20:26

amount of a diuretic avert. Let's

20:28

say, useless direct x. You would

20:30

never take it if you wanted

20:32

to do something because it stays

20:34

in your system for the longest

20:37

possible time pads. Or any other emphatically

20:39

were planning on see thing. you wouldn't take

20:41

something that was as staying a system the

20:43

level that one does one diabetic which will

20:45

be completely untraceable by eight hours, this one

20:47

will still be traceable. A minimum two

20:49

weeks must produce. Just how should

20:51

you just explain what it is

20:53

about Arrested That gives people. Another

20:56

balances his yeah, yeah, so the director

20:58

can it smells isn't performance enhancing at

21:01

all And it's not even classes as

21:03

performance enhancing targets classes, a specified substance

21:05

which as a whole, nother. Puts

21:07

us in itself and apart from

21:09

in. Sports that have weight categories

21:11

where a diabetic can make you

21:14

lose water and docile wait. The

21:16

director in itself isn't forms enhancing.

21:18

What the direct it can do. Theoretically, if

21:20

you have enough of that, Is it

21:22

can make you produce a lot more year

21:24

in said the it can make a performance.

21:26

And seven hundred such as he take like anabolic

21:28

steroids. A. Can make a lot lot weaker

21:30

and duffel or dates A warning sign basically.

21:33

isn't that yes? Does that? There's something else.

21:35

Going on here. Potentially your. British

21:37

as the and I guess op prism and

21:39

are unconscious bias. My is that we. All

21:42

believe you know the Rsc. Six. Weeks

21:44

maybe? We are my knees.

21:46

In you know, we kind of. We sometimes hit

21:48

this going on. Another one hundred per se as

21:50

Ice and we can ago well fab You know

21:53

they've been doing must What does I had best

21:55

typing? Probably have any problems. Rye and programs. Sensing

21:57

with cycling really you know, lessened open

21:59

side. Typing it got that Know?

22:01

likely him a sexy guy has got

22:04

a it's It's historical issues and wants

22:06

to prove itself to be a clean

22:08

and trustworthy school. Ice is your immediate

22:11

reaction. I'm going to fight this until

22:13

I clear my name. Yes,

22:16

And no, it's been

22:18

so so hard because.

22:22

From the stories that I've seen in the press,

22:24

one I. Didn't believe people had

22:26

actually done anything wrong. A new

22:28

always ends badly and. As.

22:30

I am never. As a going

22:33

back to cycling, I couldn't ever

22:35

risk putting my family through this

22:37

again. It's so stressful. Immediately, the

22:39

stress. Was. It we really

22:41

felt like we had lost our lives like are like

22:43

my life was either what the hell was I going

22:45

to do with my life? I know I've given up

22:48

a medical degree for this, have given up being a

22:50

doctor. I put everything into this. My future was either

22:52

in the media and cycling or is a direct school

22:54

teeth and cycling or as grumble race at my seat

22:56

to was in cycling. I didn't know what's coming but

22:58

of kind of planned out for me. And

23:01

I started to fight it. Lost

23:04

all our money very quickly or

23:06

spend all of our money very

23:08

quickly on testing medications on in

23:10

legal fees and I just i

23:13

like what this is doing to

23:15

us is destroying me and my

23:17

husband and my friends. So.

23:20

Many points I didn't. Think that we could go

23:22

on anymore because I couldn't cope with what

23:24

it was doing. But.

23:26

The resets the I did from of

23:28

very very early stage at finding these

23:30

things and thinking a lot of months

23:32

know about this. What it what it

23:34

must know what's going on here. You

23:36

know somebody must have publicized this and

23:38

like nobody has told the story and

23:40

the reason is because this is such

23:42

a horrifying experience is that you come

23:44

out of it and you never want

23:46

to speak about a gun. And just

23:48

this morning. I met up with some

23:50

from Moving Sports Law who were helping me

23:53

with this case and he told me that

23:55

an athlete seventy as gay or as you

23:57

think about ten years ago now he received.

24:00

The matter said letter and he

24:02

immediately tried to commit suicide. He

24:04

overdosed on medication. Thankfully, he didn't

24:06

successfully commit suicide and he was

24:09

found not to be that any

24:11

fault And the end. I

24:13

have a friend who's gay in a different

24:15

sport that who has gone through this answer

24:17

said I send the still going through this

24:20

and everything. You. Say

24:22

may scar my size of baby

24:24

Sydney Say rings true in conversations

24:26

I've I've had with him. With

24:28

him in tears at times. And.

24:31

What? Struck. Me in. My.

24:34

Dealings with him on what you

24:36

saying now. Is that

24:38

when this happens to you. The.

24:40

Onus is on you. To.

24:43

Prove your innocence. Which

24:46

goes against. Everything. Else

24:48

of how we operate a

24:50

legal system since little proven

24:52

your you are in the

24:54

sphere of positive tests. Or.

24:57

Contaminated. Tess. As.

24:59

Soon as he received the email,

25:01

I think you are guilty until

25:03

proven innocent. and as an athlete,

25:06

you know that you are very

25:08

aware of that and written weights

25:10

as hopelessness and despair that comes

25:12

with that is incredibly to Scottsdale,

25:14

Az And can I think it's

25:16

been widely publicized that I didn't

25:18

feel suicidal and I really struggled

25:20

for very long time? Thankfully, I'm

25:23

feeling much better now, but they're

25:25

still moments when. He just as

25:27

bad habits of a meltdown. That

25:30

some months and months and just. You.

25:32

Know my mental health was just destroyed

25:34

and was absolutely assisted and you couldn't

25:36

tell anybody. Even last week the day

25:38

before. Publication: We arrived at visiting my husband's

25:41

cousin's and cool months and they didn't know

25:43

why we're not able to share it because

25:45

it was. In I mean can

25:47

you imagine this this late in

25:49

the you know I was able

25:52

to prove my innocence and right

25:54

everything. Up and away on my website

25:56

as banks that today sites that are

25:58

tits and altered Alberta. The company

26:00

the floors in the system. Has

26:03

been I've been through and the response

26:05

that we've had to that has been

26:07

overwhelming because nobody has ever told that

26:09

story, about what goes on behind the

26:12

scenes, what is actually wrong and water

26:14

and you taught and many other national

26:16

and typing agencies I'm sure. And

26:19

to say you're still in a process

26:21

now where want could be ideal? Yeah,

26:23

this, or battle about loving more days.

26:25

Yeah, right. And. At the moment

26:27

one period of time has elapsed already

26:30

have yes that they haven't am appealed

26:32

see got eleven days of waiting. And.

26:35

If they don't appear. That said,

26:38

You. Are clean estate the at a

26:40

name and your reputation and what?

26:42

You've done so to fight So this. Does

26:44

that give you any sense? Of

26:47

of satisfaction, joy feeling

26:49

slighted. The wrongs. You.

26:51

Know I screwed up. yeah after this,

26:53

eleven levin more days. If lotta don't

26:56

appeal, I'm a clean slate. but I

26:58

still have for anti doping rule violations

27:00

to my name. The I have as

27:02

they say, Committed. I

27:06

think yes, I knew that I was

27:08

in a unique position as an athlete

27:10

where I was capable of making a

27:12

change of had medical background. I'm incredibly

27:14

fortunate in life in the education I

27:16

thought and I knew that I could

27:18

communicate this in a way that I

27:20

didn't believe anybody ever had before. I'm

27:22

sure what to think that this will

27:24

just go away, but they don't know

27:26

me since to the light throughout, that's

27:28

what. Us The response I've

27:30

had. And the way people

27:32

have had said to me it's I

27:34

am. Really? Ashamed

27:36

or nice, that's I've always just assumed

27:38

that a positive test means a diaper.

27:40

And and a know that you know

27:43

Thousands and thousands, tens of thousands. Of

27:45

people have been educated three this that. There's

27:47

another side to the story that lotta aren't

27:49

perfect skin. A Before this I didn't think

27:51

that water were perfect. the I'm I thought

27:54

you know. They've. Got a way to tell

27:56

us it's probably contamination on not Steve feel sources

27:58

of it. Was just thinking about water. In right

28:00

do you feel this is because they're under

28:02

funded because they haven't got the science that

28:04

they need. You know what? because it's know

28:07

and their interests as it to have Lizzie

28:09

Banks take on the moonlight a surprise and

28:11

he will any know that now yes a

28:13

certain but that but they you know they

28:15

won't speak it. were going into the Olympics

28:18

right? They want to have their reputation intact,

28:20

They want to feel the in our people

28:22

can trust their results. You know that they

28:24

are the ultimate gatekeeper, the safe, clean sport

28:26

and this is on the back of the

28:29

case about. The twins three Chinese swimmers

28:31

where water being scrutinized by in

28:33

a worldwide by all nice ones

28:35

dating agencies which is not good.

28:37

For them I completely agree with you.

28:39

So I think the problem is there

28:41

are many aspects to this problem. Of

28:43

course they are underfunded, they're definitely under

28:46

funded by I believe they are blindly

28:48

ignorant to the issues. So I received

28:50

an email we email them become know

28:52

about this and they said what holiday

28:54

is not known contaminants of meat or

28:56

medication something on us and then another

28:59

email later kept pressing and I kept

29:01

pressing and they basically told me that

29:03

they do not keep records of what

29:05

has been contaminated with was. So

29:07

Water Sewer The World Anti Doping

29:09

Agency do not know what substances

29:11

have been contaminated by what and

29:14

so is basically backwards and few

29:16

dust and the answer is no

29:18

one and they said one of

29:20

the really worrying things that by

29:22

sad is that they didn't have

29:24

the resources to do this because

29:26

there are. Hundreds or any

29:28

given time. So all. Different.

29:30

Substances, most likely right? So you got.

29:33

Thousands. Of contaminations happening.

29:35

Possible. Contamination is happening. didn't get any

29:38

record of s so you wait for

29:40

an athlete's to happens to have the

29:42

support structure the money to fund this

29:44

to do all the research to provide

29:46

it to you and then you. Change

29:48

the rules How many lives have to

29:51

be lost for that happens to see

29:53

the have an eye on impossible. Job.

29:56

No. No. I

29:58

believe this can be reconciled. And

30:00

I will write a letter to them

30:02

than the appeals and as possible or

30:04

an open letter with how I believe

30:07

this can be reconciled from scientifically from

30:09

by side some athletes perspective but also

30:11

to ensure the strict liability and saw

30:13

the athletes are undertaking those responsibilities they

30:15

must. Do. In order to make sure they

30:17

only. Use that tested supplements. Make sure they are as

30:20

careful as they must be, which is the reason I

30:22

was able. To. Say this died shown the utmost.

30:24

Class and athletes must be cautious.

30:26

They have a duty of tax.

30:28

Be cautious but. The. Anti doping

30:31

agencies have, as he says, Cat athletes

30:33

and at the moment they are not

30:35

fulfilling that the So dick pound what

30:37

he was in charge of world was

30:39

need to ponder on still be winners

30:41

David documentary on on Lance Armstrong to

30:44

t it was felt that the teachers

30:46

will always be once the bad because

30:48

of the that was a some bizarre

30:50

because of money or size sports. What

30:52

strikes me in this discussion is the

30:54

honestly by was thinking about that that

30:57

the real ceases to knows mean there

30:59

is a middle ground here where people

31:01

are being thrown to. The Wolves. Because

31:03

of the state of science or hormones

31:05

or the food industry or medication or

31:08

Big Pharma or whatever it may be

31:10

on. I wonder whether we're a stage

31:12

of everything has to be stripped bought

31:15

rather subpoena, added on and added on

31:17

and added on and added on. The.

31:20

Verge have solved from. Zero.

31:22

Again and then. Build. Is

31:25

hop? Is that how you feel. I.

31:27

Think you've really hit the nail on the

31:29

had that like this system right now is

31:31

not fit for purpose. This system like I

31:33

said it was introduced. The security and system

31:35

was introduced because of the basics of yes

31:37

yes and say it's not. Currently set for

31:39

what we've got, and the athletes he

31:41

do want to type are generally one

31:44

step ahead. I mean, I'm sure you'll

31:46

have athletes who won a diaper net,

31:48

stupid whites, and then, you know, take

31:50

something blindingly obvious. but I. Do think

31:52

the system needs complete times, but I

31:55

also think that there is a way

31:57

to more easily and with less money

31:59

simply. The systems that can

32:01

make a real difference. And

32:04

yes, A something has to change. It's

32:06

just it's just not sex. Pappas run so you

32:08

will keep on. This. Is a campaign

32:10

that few beyond clearing your name? See

32:12

I. I mean it's months ago. Gabi.

32:14

Months ago. I mean I would say

32:16

October when we run our money and

32:18

we. Could no longer have you know

32:20

official legal support. We had to stop

32:22

in Iraq we place our count with

32:24

the with the sports law company because

32:26

we couldn't afford and anymore and as

32:29

I have to do this other people

32:31

and. I said: this is the only reason I'm doing

32:33

this because my career is over. In a some

32:35

me it would be better if I started

32:37

the process of healing in a six seven

32:39

months ago because I'm gonna do something else.

32:41

I'm Alive and Stop Woodworking or whatever

32:44

it is that. I. Just believe

32:46

to I was. Literally the only person

32:48

that could sense the system that could

32:50

stand up to the system had this unique

32:52

such as skills to be able to attack

32:55

at the scientific knowledge, the writing capability, the

32:57

communicating capability, the dogged determination. You know the

32:59

I will not be beaten by the Throng

33:01

system. Have always been a believer and scientists

33:04

have always stood up for things no matter

33:06

what it's meant for me. I'm. No

33:08

Uk Day have said in a statement that against what they

33:10

can do. Better to support athletes is

33:13

this rubbish? Because they knew months

33:15

and months ago the I was in

33:17

a dire way with my mental. Health

33:19

and I was really at risk of

33:21

taken a life that a nothing about

33:23

it. And then they come out. Seven.

33:26

Months later and site with substance. And about

33:28

athletes wellbeing of why didn't he do something

33:30

about it when I slipped up? What about

33:32

British cycling and your friends that they reach

33:34

him? Yes, I british cycling in a position

33:36

that they can't say anything until the water pills. Window

33:38

has passed by. Have to say I had

33:41

incredible score from But A cycling they can

33:43

do anything actively are getting that cool a

33:45

few days afterwards and the support that I've

33:47

had the past no support from one particular

33:49

member of the team is very high up.

33:51

There has been incredible and. In he was

33:54

the one actually made me believe it. He

33:56

said remember that the minimum. Sanction is a

33:58

reprimand, and actually I got. Less

34:00

than that, I don't know about month.

34:02

Nothing nice. Also, negligence know sanction, no

34:05

ban. How. Hard is it?

34:07

Tonight. He got no fault, no

34:10

negligence. Know bob? And.

34:12

That that was still. More.

34:14

Than likely be somebody listen to their

34:16

see things. Come. On. You.

34:18

Know what? I. Actually don't care because

34:21

I was prepared for an onslaught. I was

34:23

really prepared for non slow and the outpouring

34:25

of love and support I've had from the

34:27

people the I actually care about has been

34:29

so. Amazing! I was so prepared to

34:31

deal with house. And I've just

34:33

been processing the complete opposite. And

34:35

most importantly the message that have some

34:37

people that has been affected by this

34:39

personally and their lives and the difference

34:41

that is made to them and the

34:44

fact that this has actually been communicated

34:46

probably said the people can understand and

34:48

change their opinions about things that happened

34:50

in the past.is so important. I will

34:52

always be idiots. How that? whatever. Whether it's

34:54

a dating show, whatever, It is in it

34:56

it whether you type or not. Thera People who

34:58

think that you're typing. In a

35:01

asbestos. The problem with the sport

35:03

as guys that the image of cycling which

35:05

we could do a whole year was cause

35:07

as or I mean are I am I'm

35:09

aware that we've we've had a lot of

35:11

you Lizzie but Marquee got you got your

35:13

job is to city Fulton River which is

35:15

if people listen to this and same time

35:17

my i you know in a week's time

35:19

got an email the same email that you

35:22

go. What would you advise

35:24

them? To. Do. And. That

35:26

the second part of that is. For.

35:28

Athletes out there simply was. How the hell is

35:30

this Happened To her. Body they

35:32

need to avoid. How do they protect themselves

35:35

from being in a. In a

35:37

similar situation, Even in the

35:39

most desperate situations when you think

35:41

that there's nothing left that is

35:43

still hype there. Is still away

35:45

and actions and thought that for any

35:48

situation and good things. Do come out

35:50

as surrender situations and to me that's

35:52

been in a really ceiling the value

35:54

of my support network and understanding that

35:56

the people that I care about Bruna

35:59

turbo me and. That no matter what

36:01

happens, they will still love me in

36:03

Naples of castle mates and. How

36:06

do they avoided? I mean, You.

36:08

Can do your best you can take

36:10

you can take much to supplements. If

36:12

you taking medication you can. Record the

36:14

I'm Bats number and the the manufacturer

36:16

and when you've taken it because we

36:19

have to record what medications be taken

36:21

but there's never been and station about

36:23

their wits batch numbers of keeping the

36:25

bus. Numbers buses to Would have thought for

36:27

this that. Proceed Smoke to be

36:29

contaminated with a banned substance. In

36:32

it if your water contaminated what can you

36:35

do is a contest all the water that

36:37

you drink for you during that just finally

36:39

your i'm you mentioned your website yeah and

36:42

I guess you could you deep dive even

36:44

more that because of your medical background and

36:46

tool the things you've just talked about sex.

36:49

And he was listening. Who is worries, concerns and

36:51

athlete. Who wants lend more? Could go there

36:53

but it feels like you've pills. This

36:55

is a horrible nancy but if pill

36:57

the scab of something really horrible that

36:59

it's gotta be passing out for lotta

37:01

owlets. Since our our. Next

37:05

season's. Scorsese's

37:10

with stabbing. Like an unlocked

37:13

Sat Med. School

37:17

cause we're just spice. I

37:23

really feel sorry for jobs

37:26

are not a wanted to

37:28

find out more or. Less

37:33

have. A

37:46

High scores that's full

37:48

bar in his. The legendary

37:50

Us promoter talking about the

37:52

Castle Taylor fight his fighter

37:54

unsurprisingly from that group didn't

37:56

win sister. And

37:58

Am and of course. The reverse of this

38:01

of the bow couple years ago and the

38:03

reason my we want of this with about

38:05

this is because in John Lewis the. Disgraced.

38:08

Judge to. His card in the

38:10

first fight was pulled out. He was

38:12

an investigated and he hasn't. Judged at

38:14

that level or refereed at that level since

38:16

so it's interesting to see thoughts on the

38:19

cards on Saturday night. He feels that he

38:21

was made a scapegoat in the first fight

38:23

and we dropped a bonus upset with him.

38:25

La Suite Fascinating insight into how you school

38:27

phones and son is over she's worthless since

38:30

it's a many got bucket such as after

38:32

the fight at the weekend we went controls

38:34

way but to card scored the fire one

38:36

hundred and seventy one hundred and eleven which

38:38

is a big margins and the general feeling

38:41

is that it was closer than us and

38:43

he and himself. Said definitely not a

38:45

one one seven mom mom mom

38:47

fights Castle did win by two rounds

38:49

in my opinion just like us go

38:52

to the first time to tailor

38:54

but again the scorecards of the talking

38:56

point So yes again all the scrutiny

38:58

is on how it has been scored

39:01

and yet again with these two most

39:03

cruise line on how difficult to

39:05

judge the East Sussex. Pointed in

39:07

I didn't hurt so much at confuse

39:09

it's but it's interesting him saying that

39:11

because. I wonder then if the judges from

39:14

such they. Would. Be investigating the same

39:16

way he was and and maybe said no

39:18

and no is not looked at. He feels

39:20

right. Absolutely us to go back and know,

39:22

go back and listen to words that pot

39:25

it's on our feet. By the way. I'd

39:27

I mean forbid for me to disagree with

39:29

Bob Arum. but. I. Still think

39:31

he might bring in American Pie thrive as

39:33

to fight this. It was the right side

39:35

and the purse was yeah let's to be

39:38

sniffed, City sticks to his guns on how

39:40

insanely am I pop out at Charing Cross

39:42

at seats a some and I come up

39:44

to the suitcase. And I got out

39:46

today and it was bit drizzly. that radiance

39:48

doing in there and sustains and it was

39:50

all building city. Yes Champions League Final The

39:53

merchandise salt this big states coyotes and it

39:55

kind of took me aside. so I miss

39:57

Woods. Oh my gosh, that's this week's end.

40:00

The finances. With so much going on, it's

40:02

not really been on the radar. Has it

40:04

that we've we've got see Huge! Your

40:06

super clubs coming some at the moment.

40:08

it never. It never stops.

40:10

sites that before we get the

40:12

Champions League part of the rope

40:14

of conference league final. Is.

40:16

On Wednesday night and thus Olympiacos

40:19

against Fiorentina with the which should

40:21

be a great finalize selects as

40:23

a Real Madrid against the receive

40:26

Dortmund on Saturday night and then

40:28

Us Exhaust is it. For.

40:31

About ten days for a better days.

40:33

He had the Eurostar sites and budgets

40:35

you know what a what's left side

40:37

as well. Just to prove that it

40:39

never ends I got back from work

40:41

less thought about half types of flit

40:43

with Sally on on on Sky. Last

40:45

saw it on main event was. Dusseldorf.

40:48

Against both com for the right

40:50

to be in the Bundesliga next

40:52

season so light the relegation promotion

40:54

playoff a dose of those had

40:56

finished third in the Bundesliga as

40:58

vice abundance leader book and were

41:00

in the relegation plow Dusseldorf one

41:02

the first like embark him three

41:05

now. And. Last night box one

41:07

in docile door three know and it went

41:09

to penalties and docile Dolph missed some bottom

41:11

stay and and and i dislike hobby for

41:13

me to try to balance have the tennis

41:15

player from both from. Mississippi.

41:19

Up Up Up Up Up Up Up.

41:21

I would otherwise never know how you

41:23

pronounce that. seemed pretty on the phone

41:25

of them. In the future you probably

41:27

have died if you get it. So

41:29

Scissors is. Always saw the bell as

41:31

a sports agent or global.com or other

41:33

social feel for any other pronunciation seawater.

41:35

He was a big as up. Other

41:37

scripts are you gonna tell me that

41:39

I disclosed? I know, could you spell

41:42

ah about six as a tipping heard

41:44

See once Made a quarterfinal at Wimbledon.

41:46

Yeah, that's all I'll say. Okay, yeah, an

41:48

explosion or has been as successful. As

41:51

tennis players for the Souls. And you

41:54

can catch up with all our episodes. On Global

41:56

Plan or as you get your podcasts will

41:58

see on Thursday by which time. My

42:00

work to that. Idea:

42:04

I'm not shot lead.