0:09

Welcome to Terrain Talk with Roberto

0:12

Rivilla , bespoke Taylor menswear designer

0:14

and owner of Roberto Rivilla , london

0:16

custom clothing and footwear . I

0:18

activate your superpowers through the

0:20

clothing I create and the conversations

0:23

tailored . On this podcast

0:25

, we'll meet self-starters and creators

0:27

to learn about their journeys , while they share valuable

0:29

lessons to help you be the very

0:31

best you can be . Support

0:34

the show , please , by hitting the subscribe

0:36

button , and a rating slash

0:39

. Review would help out immensely

0:41

. In the cutthroat world of sales

0:44

, countless professionals struggle

0:46

with the same issue generic

0:48

scripts and impersonal interactions

0:51

that leave prospects unmoved

0:53

. Conversations become repetitive

0:55

echoes and training often feels

0:57

like a one-size-fits-all approach

1:00

. Enter today's

1:02

guest , who is a conversational

1:04

maestro with a revolutionary

1:07

blueprint to transform sales

1:09

interactions . For over

1:11

30 years , he's travelled

1:13

across six countries , impacting over 10,000

1:16

individuals . With his unique approach , the

1:18

adaptive conversational

1:20

blueprint , he challenges

1:23

traditional methods , emphasizing the power

1:25

of rhythm , cadence and genuine

1:27

connection in building lasting relationships

1:30

with prospects . His groundbreaking work

1:32

has earned him international recognition , including

1:35

an award for outstanding instructional

1:37

design . Taylor and talkers , please

1:39

welcome a pioneer in conversational

1:41

dynamics and highly regarded fractional

1:44

chief learning officer to

1:47

the show Jake Stahl , how are

1:49

you ?

1:50

Oh , thank you for having me . I'm super excited

1:53

to be here . I'm really honored to be your guest

1:55

.

1:55

So now I got asked my first question

1:57

, which is what's a fractional

1:59

chief learning officer ? Because

2:02

I've never , ever heard of that

2:04

before .

2:06

Yeah , so the fractional movement is

2:08

picking up steam here in the States . It's

2:11

based on three concepts . The

2:14

first is you don't need an

2:16

executive or a C level person

2:18

full time for in

2:20

certain areas . So fractional

2:22

chief learning officer is basically just

2:24

a fractional head of training and development

2:27

, and a lot

2:29

of people will hire a head of training and development

2:31

for a year

2:34

20 to 40 a year and

2:37

you don't need somebody like that for

2:39

40 hours a week . So I work with you

2:41

only when you need me . I

2:44

work with you for a brief period of time . I get

2:46

you off the ground , get you up and running and make

2:48

sure you have what you need , and I do

2:50

it at a fraction of the price . So

2:53

fractional time , fractional

2:55

hours for a fractional price , and

2:59

I do it from a C suite level so

3:01

that I can help you make decisions

3:03

that are going to move the company . So

3:05

I'm really a fractional chief

3:08

executive level , but at

3:10

a price your budget won't really notice .

3:12

Yeah , so that's a fractional , because you're

3:15

only there for a fraction of the time that you're

3:17

actually needed . I love that , yeah

3:19

, yeah . I remember organizations

3:22

that I've worked at where we would have like they

3:24

would bring in a chief training officer

3:26

or whatever and they

3:28

didn't really seem to do that much work . They'd

3:30

maybe have a couple of sessions with us , like

3:33

a month , and then the rest of the time

3:35

. I mean , this was back in the days where you

3:37

could smoke indoors and stuff you would just go

3:39

find them in the smoking lounge right , Pretending

3:41

to be doing training notes

3:43

and stuff like that . I'm really sorry

3:45

. Anyone who's a sales trainer out there that's listening

3:48

to this and I've offended you . I apologize

3:50

, but you

3:52

know perceptions , everything right . Make

3:56

it look like you're doing more work . So

4:01

, Jake , let's dig

4:03

into a little bit about you and help the

4:05

audience get to know you . So

4:08

, originally from Pennsylvania , and

4:11

there are a lot of places you've mentioned

4:13

, like Syracuse and Bethlehem

4:16

, that I know from my

4:19

time watching the

4:21

US version of the Office- one

4:24

of my all time favorite shows . So

4:26

I just know these names and I know that they're

4:28

in Pennsylvania because occasionally you

4:31

got to meet some of the branch managers

4:33

from the other offices

4:35

and so on , but

4:37

you've not lived in Penn

4:39

State for quite some time , right

4:41

?

4:42

Correct and the joke about . We

4:45

grew up near Bethlehem and I

4:47

lived near Bethlehem for a while and I always used

4:49

to joke with my kids that's where Jesus was

4:51

born , that's the Bethlehem they're referring

4:53

to . That is funny because it's right down the

4:55

road from Nazareth and

4:57

so it's always the big joke about

4:59

. You know , I was raised near Bethlehem , but

5:02

at one point in my career I got an offer

5:04

to move to Connecticut to

5:06

take a training position and so I moved

5:09

there and I've lived there ever since

5:11

, and Syracuse , of course , is a

5:13

harken back to my alma mater , which is where

5:15

I went to school .

5:16

Yeah , and you've

5:19

got a very I was

5:21

going to say big brain . Well

5:24

, it probably is big , a very muscular

5:26

brain . You don't

5:28

seem to let that part

5:30

of your body ever rest , because

5:33

you're very much into kind of

5:35

digging into the mechanics and the science

5:37

of how things work , whether it's

5:40

physical or whether it's I

5:43

don't want to call sales a mental concept

5:45

, because it can be a bit mentally taxing

5:47

though . Where

5:49

did that come from , I'm guessing ? Have you

5:51

always been that way since you were a child

5:54

? I'm trying to go back 10

5:56

years to young Jake , because

5:58

it's not that , because you're still quite young 10

6:01

years is still old , jake .

6:04

When I was raised , I was raised by a father who

6:06

was very prominent in the community

6:08

, and I was raised in a generation where

6:11

kids were to be seen and not

6:13

heard . So I spent

6:15

a lot of my childhood just

6:17

sitting in on meetings or conferences

6:20

or business things my father held

6:22

, and not saying much or

6:24

not supposed to say much . And

6:27

a lot of it sunk in and things started

6:29

to baffle me after a while . As

6:32

strange as it sounds , the greeting how are

6:34

you still puzzles me to this day

6:36

. And so

6:38

all of that led into wanting to be involved

6:41

with the psychology . How do we make decisions

6:43

? Why do we do what we do ? Why do

6:45

some businesses go stellar and others

6:47

fail ? And so I

6:49

got a degree in psychology from

6:51

Syracuse . I since

6:54

had multiple certifications in neuro linguistic

6:56

programming and just

6:58

I'm constantly on the

7:00

search for the perfect conversation

7:02

. What makes that perfect

7:05

back and forth that is so

7:07

memorable that you not only remember me

7:09

, but you want to do business

7:11

with me , and renewing with

7:13

me is not even a question

7:15

, it's let's just sign

7:17

up for another year . What is it that

7:19

makes that happen ? And the journey

7:21

that , roberto , has been fascinating , because

7:24

there is no right answer . It's

7:26

not like you do A and B to get

7:28

C . It's you have a million

7:30

variations of A that can lead to a trillion

7:33

variations of B and

7:35

maybe , if you're lucky , you'll get to C , and

7:37

that's what makes it so fascinating .

7:39

Yeah , I

7:42

don't even know exactly where to start with this

7:44

. Well , I guess in our pre talks we talked a little

7:46

bit about my experiences and

7:50

I worked I've worked for big corporations

7:52

. When I first got into telling I worked for

7:55

a big American company . Forever

7:57

grateful for my time . There is there for seven

7:59

amazing years built an amazing business

8:01

. Most of my clients came with me

8:04

when I left because the relationships

8:06

that I built Right , of course . But

8:08

as a company , their

8:11

kind of blueprint for success was

8:14

very prescriptive . So

8:16

when you were going , so

8:18

you would basically spend half of your

8:20

day on appointments , if you had

8:23

any , and then you would spend the second

8:25

half of your day trying

8:27

to hit a certain number of

8:29

outreach metrics

8:31

, and their formula

8:33

was 80 dollars a day equals

8:35

17 . You'll speak to 17

8:37

people , and

8:40

if you speak to 17 people you should

8:42

book seven appointments . By

8:44

and large , those

8:46

metrics worked , because

8:49

I worked them religiously

8:51

. From that point of view , I did what I was told

8:53

, and

8:55

the salespeople who failed or

8:57

didn't do as well , they

9:00

didn't stick to that prescription

9:02

and forgive me if I'm not articulating

9:05

very , very well , I've got two cats and I

9:07

think my dogs are asleep behind me . Yeah

9:09

, but the cats are running

9:11

around creating havoc . One of them is a bad

9:13

one . Crazy bitch . So

9:20

from that point of view that worked . So I was fully

9:22

on board with that . What

9:25

I wasn't on board with was the fact

9:28

that I had a very rigid script

9:30

that not only did

9:32

I have to give verbatim , but if I didn't give it

9:34

verbatim I was in big trouble

9:36

. There would be a sit-down

9:38

with a sales manager or my sales leader

9:40

and I would get told off

9:42

and then I would have someone listening in on my

9:44

calls until I

9:46

was back on track again . This

9:50

then , once you were out in the field

9:52

and you were on appointments , you would

9:54

then have a presentation

9:57

folder and you would

9:59

have to then give another script verbatim

10:01

History of the company where

10:04

we started , how the stock

10:06

price has changed over that period of time

10:09

. It never made sense to me

10:11

. I could get it from a building

10:13

credibility or establishing credibility

10:16

point of view , but the stock price

10:18

of the company had nothing to do with

10:21

the clothes that you might want to wear or

10:23

how you might want to look or how you want

10:25

the world to see you . So

10:28

as I kind of established

10:30

myself and I rose up through the sales ranks

10:33

, I started to basically do what

10:35

I was not supposed to do , because

10:38

as far as I was concerned

10:40

, I was serving individuals

10:42

and every single person was different

10:44

, and therefore every conversation , every

10:46

presentation needed to be tuned

10:48

to the person that was in front of me

10:50

. And in order to work out how to do

10:52

that , I had to ask more

10:55

questions than actually talk at them , although

10:58

I realized that I'm actually just talking at you now

11:00

. I had to ask

11:02

more questions and just sit there

11:04

for the first 15 minutes talking

11:06

at them . I needed to find out about them , and

11:09

then , once I'd gained all that information

11:11

, then I'd say , right , jake , let me

11:13

see if I've got this right . So you

11:15

do this amount of traveling . You see these

11:17

types of people you

11:20

like to fill this way in your clothes

11:22

, and the priority for you right

11:24

now , if you were to try me out no

11:26

obligation , by the way is

11:29

this , this and this ? Am

11:31

I right ? Yeah , absolutely Okay

11:33

. Great , let's get to it then . And

11:37

so my close rate was very

11:39

, very high . I knew that if I had an appointment

11:41

with someone , they would probably

11:43

95% they were going to become a client

11:46

, and if they didn't , it's because

11:48

I did something wrong , I didn't ask the

11:50

right question , I wasn't listening properly , whatever

11:52

, but yeah

11:54

, I relay that story to you . It's

11:57

still , I'm betting , to this day , the way

11:59

that a lot of corporations kind

12:02

of run their sales training and

12:04

their sales systems as

12:07

a blueprint for their quote , unquote success

12:10

. How do you deal with that when you're going into

12:12

it ? So let me get let

12:14

us get some understanding about what

12:17

it's like when you enter an

12:19

organization , when they call you and say , listen , something's

12:22

not working . We think we've got everything in place , but

12:25

something's not working . We need to kind of

12:27

change it up , but we don't know what it is . What

12:30

does that look like for you most of the time when you're kind

12:32

of walking in and saying , right , what the hell's going on

12:34

here ?

12:35

Yeah , and thank you for asking , and there's

12:37

there's a lot to unpack there . When

12:39

I go into a company , the first thing I do is

12:42

I give them an hour of time free . Let's

12:45

just sit down and see where

12:47

you are and see where you want to go

12:49

. And it takes me a while to analyze

12:51

this . A lot of companies

12:53

that do training and development will go in and

12:55

say here , do this methodology

12:57

and this is going to be great . Here's nine

13:00

binders and 12 videos for you

13:02

to watch and now

13:04

pay me , you know , $50 per

13:06

head until time comes to a close

13:08

and you'll be fine . But

13:11

here's where the issue comes in , and

13:14

you said it well . You said you can make so many

13:16

calls , you get so many closes , and

13:18

I run into this all the time . For

13:21

every , you know , 100 calls we

13:23

make , we close 10 of them

13:25

. So in order to close 100

13:27

, I have to have 10 reps making 100

13:29

calls a piece . But what

13:31

they do is they base it on past

13:33

performance . So they say this

13:36

is what my CRM says happens

13:38

. So we're going to make future plans

13:40

for that . Roberto , we look at nothing

13:42

else in life like that . I

13:44

don't . There was a study that came out , british

13:47

study that said the chances

13:49

of you finding your perfect mate

13:51

on any given day is

13:53

one in 356

13:56

. So

13:58

if I read that study , am I going

14:00

to say to myself I have to meet 356

14:03

people each day in order for

14:05

me to find my perfect mate ? I

14:07

don't do that . What I do is

14:09

, when I look for my perfect mate

14:11

, I do my research . Where did they go to school

14:13

? What did they like to eat ? What movies did

14:15

I like ? What's my best chance for success

14:18

? Right , I really try and narrow

14:20

it down . So my close rate goes up . But

14:23

many companies what they'll do is they'll say here's

14:25

a script , like your company did for you , and

14:28

the reason their close rate is the way it is

14:30

is because that script will match certain

14:33

personality types and

14:35

so you will close those personality

14:37

types . But this is where the scripting

14:39

goes wrong when you fall

14:41

outside those personality types

14:44

. It's not

14:46

that the script is wrong , it's that the script

14:48

is not geared towards that person

14:50

. If they don't care about the stock prices

14:53

, you're going to lose them . If

14:55

they don't care about the company history , you're

14:58

going to lose them . If a rep came into

15:00

me selling me a product I was really interested

15:02

in and they started with company history , you're

15:05

done . I'm not going to waste my time

15:07

. We're out of here . But

15:10

companies by and large want to take that

15:12

shortcut that says we provide a script

15:14

, we get this close rate , so we budget

15:16

on that amount . And that

15:18

is where sales teams fail . What

15:21

they need is a customized approach

15:23

and they need to understand mirroring

15:25

and personality traits and how

15:27

to localize messaging . It's

15:30

all about the psychology . I've

15:33

been doing this for a long time 30 years

15:35

and I will tell you , never

15:38

, ever ever , have I seen price

15:40

be the main factor ever . If

15:43

you provide value prices

15:46

just academic , it's

15:48

just a matter of how they'll pay for it . But

15:50

most companies get so caught

15:53

up in the pricing . If

15:55

a rep doesn't meet that demand , the

15:57

rep is out . My

16:00

question has always been why put the rep

16:02

out and why not train them properly

16:05

? And

16:07

that's what I come in to do . I

16:09

am deeply embedded in psychology , multiple

16:12

certifications in neuro-liguistic

16:14

programming , and it's

16:17

not what you say to people , it's

16:19

how you say it and

16:21

how much are you appealing

16:24

to where they learn and see

16:26

the world through their lens .

16:29

Yeah , do you think also

16:31

part of it is I mean , that's

16:33

so important what you said there Rather

16:35

than putting the rep out , actually train them

16:39

to be able to tune themselves to prospects

16:42

and so on . But do you think companies are

16:44

still not seeing past their noses

16:46

Because they say , for example

16:48

, like the firm that I worked for , their

16:50

whole philosophy was

16:52

it doesn't matter whether it's UJ

16:54

or whether it's Roberto , or whether we get

16:56

rid of you and someone else comes in by

16:59

having these scripts . The reason why it's

17:01

important that you give it like that is

17:04

so that one day you will be training

17:06

somebody else . We don't need to rewrite the

17:08

whole rulebook again . We basically

17:10

just have a fixed training manual and

17:13

we can just they would

17:15

compare themselves to McDonald's and

17:17

Starbucks and people like that and you're kind

17:19

of thinking well , they're multi-billion

17:22

dollar companies but

17:24

they're selling food . So

17:26

really the value for the

17:28

customer isn't in the customization

17:31

, because you can't really customize

17:33

a McDonald's hamburger . You can nowadays

17:35

to an extent , but not to

17:37

the extent that you can , for example , close or consulting

17:40

or whatever it is . The

17:44

end result most customers want from

17:46

McDonald's is that if I go to McDonald's

17:48

in London or Birmingham or I

17:50

come over to New York and I order

17:53

Big Mac in man in Times Square

17:55

. I pretty much want what I

17:57

get back in London and that is what they do

17:59

really really well . You can't really

18:01

compare yourselves to them , but

18:03

companies don't really see past that For

18:06

them . The whole reasoning behind

18:09

what they do partly

18:11

is this whole replication thing , that

18:13

if we have turnover of sales staff it doesn't matter

18:16

because we just get the next one in and we just train them

18:18

. Eventually the system will stick

18:20

with enough salespeople . But

18:22

over a period of time the

18:25

amount of money that they've lost in hiring

18:28

and firing and hiring and firing because training someone

18:31

takes a good six months before they

18:33

get up to speed . Six to nine months maybe

18:36

, and then what You've

18:38

got , maybe every two in

18:40

10 maybe actually make it

18:42

and stay with the company long

18:44

term . The other 80% fall by the

18:46

wayside within years one to five

18:48

.

18:52

I agree , and that's why onboarding is so important

18:54

. Let's take a just real

18:56

quick scenario . Let's say I have a high ticket item

18:59

. The average onboarding

19:01

just to get somebody to walk through the door is

19:04

18 grand a person . Then

19:06

let's say you have a five grand in hardware

19:08

costs . You have 7,000 to set aside

19:10

for the benefit package . Let's

19:12

just round it to say it's 25

19:15

, 27,000 just for that

19:17

. Now they have a million dollar

19:19

quota , but because they don't do

19:21

their job real well , they only hit 250,000

19:24

. So you

19:26

budgeted on that million but

19:29

you've fallen short by three quarters of a million

19:31

. So that rep now has cost

19:33

you almost $800,000

19:35

. Now let's tack in the fact

19:37

that you have to re-hire somebody after that

19:39

. That's another 30

19:41

grand . So the cost of

19:44

not training somebody can

19:46

hit 800,000

19:48

to a million dollars . And

19:50

yet companies don't seem to

19:52

recognize that in the balance sheet Lost

19:55

opportunity is the same as revenue

19:57

because you're budgeting on it . So

20:00

the cost of not training someone is astronomical

20:03

. As a company

20:05

I would much rather spend $20,000

20:08

on a good training program versus

20:11

spending a million dollars on

20:13

a hire that didn't work out . So

20:17

it gets frustrating to me when I see companies

20:19

that do that . The second

20:21

piece of that puzzle , roberto , is you said about

20:23

the scripts , and I believe in scripts . In

20:25

the beginning , you need some foundation

20:28

for them to just get started and get rolling

20:30

. However , the

20:33

part that gets me when I

20:35

talk to a company is they turn sales

20:37

into a process . Now , the process

20:40

of making so many calls a day and getting

20:42

so many closes , I agree with . But

20:45

as soon as they pick up the phone , it's

20:47

no longer a process . Sales is an art

20:49

. Conversation

20:51

is an art and , to be frank with you

20:53

, roberto , none of us are great at it

20:55

. We all make mistakes , we all

20:57

say crap we didn't mean to say , we

21:00

all spout off when we shouldn't or say

21:02

something off color . So none

21:04

of us are good at it , but

21:07

we do it all the time . So why don't

21:09

we ever seek to get better ? And if my

21:11

salespeople are the only revenue generators

21:13

, why am I not investing

21:15

in them getting better ? And here's

21:17

the answer Because when

21:19

you hire a salesperson , you

21:22

say you're a salesperson , just

21:24

sell . But

21:27

you don't say that to anybody else in the company . You don't say

21:29

you're a CEO , just CEO

21:31

. Ceos are expected

21:34

to research and get better and hone their skills

21:36

and network , but for some

21:38

reason we don't apply

21:40

that to salespeople . We assume

21:42

they're good . We don't provide any

21:45

resources for them to get better , and

21:47

when we do , it's a video in an LMS

21:49

or a YouTube thing . Are you

21:51

kidding me ? It's

21:53

time to get back to the conversations

21:55

and allowing people to get good at conversations

21:58

, not selling . Conversing

22:00

, building trust , getting

22:03

a relationship that's what

22:05

makes people successful . The last company

22:07

that implemented my program they three X

22:09

their sales by doing nothing

22:11

more with the exact same people other

22:14

than teaching them how

22:16

to have the perfect conversation on the phone

22:18

.

22:19

Yeah , now , arguably

22:22

or maybe not now

22:25

has never been a better

22:27

time for sales professionals

22:30

to get to grips with

22:32

, moving outside of scripted

22:35

conversations and so on , because what's

22:38

the buzzword at the moment ? Social selling

22:40

and all this other BS . That

22:43

really makes me roll my eyes when I hear it , because

22:46

I'm a target for that sort of thing all

22:49

the time . I mean the number of LinkedIn

22:51

connection requests . I get people trying to

22:53

sell me stuff they haven't even read

22:55

. They're trying to sell the podcast

22:58

. They actually haven't read my profile . If

23:01

they even spent five seconds , they would know

23:03

what I do . I'm a bespoke tailor

23:05

. I'm the MD of Roberto

23:08

Reveller London . That is what I live

23:10

, breathe , four to five days a week

23:12

. The podcast is the side thing . And

23:19

I get people who come to me who've just started

23:21

businesses and they'll say I

23:24

need to get out there , I need to do

23:26

more on Instagram , I need to get to grips

23:28

with LinkedIn and I'm just like

23:30

no , if I was starting

23:32

a business today , I would go

23:34

find out who my ideal prospects are

23:36

. I would go to people I know and ask

23:39

them for if they knew anyone , if they could recommend

23:41

me or refer me or introduce me , and then I would

23:43

start picking up the phone and start introducing

23:45

myself . You know

23:47

not this kind of hit and hope strategy

23:49

. You know you very

23:52

rarely hit a home run sending

23:54

a connection request and a Jake

23:57

hey , this is Roberto , we're

24:00

working with CEOs and

24:02

so on , like you , to improve

24:04

their wall droves . It's like no go away . You

24:06

don't know anything about me , you've not taken

24:09

any time , you're

24:11

just . It just seems like an incredible waste

24:13

of time to me . What

24:16

do you think about that ?

24:18

I agree . One of my favorite things

24:20

is not original by any means . But hope

24:22

is not a game plan . So

24:25

you see a lot of people working with the AI

24:27

and automated marketing

24:29

now and they think , if I just thought

24:32

a million messages to a million people

24:34

, some of them have got a hit . I

24:37

am honestly amazed that

24:39

we're not looking more at what the

24:41

message is . On LinkedIn

24:44

. Every day I get people trying to sell me

24:46

. On the first communication

24:48

they do with me , I delete it immediately

24:51

. My reach

24:53

outs , roberto , are very simple . My

24:55

first three reach outs to anybody have

24:57

nothing to do with me or my product . It's

25:01

hey , I see you're a fellow fractional . How

25:03

can I best help you ? What can

25:05

I do to promote your business ? Is

25:07

there anything I can help you with on LinkedIn ? By

25:10

the time I get to my fourth message , people

25:12

are being human . They want to reciprocate

25:15

. So they say , wow , I've talked a lot about me

25:17

. What can I do for you ? And

25:20

that's when the message is gonna

25:22

be received the best . There

25:24

are a certain phase in a conversation with Roberto where

25:27

messages are gonna be

25:29

better received than others . In

25:32

the beginning is not the time . What's

25:34

our favorite topic to talk about ? Ourselves

25:38

Right , exactly so if I

25:40

can let somebody talk about themselves for three

25:42

minutes and I assure you I'm genuinely

25:44

interested and I will actively listen

25:46

because I wanna know about you . But

25:49

there's gonna come a time , I guarantee

25:52

it . There will come a time where the person goes , wow

25:55

, I've done nothing

25:57

but talk about me , so now tell me a little bit about

25:59

you . Now , I know

26:01

, is the peak time to talk about my

26:03

messaging . It is such a simple

26:05

process and yet most sales companies

26:08

I go into don't

26:10

use it . It's the . Let me slap you

26:12

in the face and jam this down your throat

26:15

and hope you'll take it , and

26:17

if one rep can't do it , I'll hire

26:19

another one who can . I don't get it

26:21

.

26:22

Yeah , totally . I mean , I'm

26:24

very poorly , badly

26:27

trying to push

26:30

you down this lane of

26:32

starting to talk about because we've

26:34

been talking about conversational blueprints , right

26:36

.

26:36

Yes , yes . So let's talk about .

26:40

Your approach is adaptive . Yes

26:43

, which is what I was probably

26:45

unintentionally doing , because

26:47

the script I

26:50

kind of seem to have talked down about it and

26:52

anyone who's listening that I used to work with

26:54

. I'm very , very sorry , I don't mean to offend

26:56

Actually that's not true but

27:00

I was very grateful because

27:02

when I started you are 100%

27:05

right that having some

27:07

form of script for a sales

27:09

job that I'd never done before , that I needed

27:11

to very quickly get to some level

27:13

of proficiency out , otherwise I'd lose my job gave

27:18

me a really good , rock solid foundation

27:20

. But once I had that foundation

27:22

, I had the fundamentals of the kind

27:25

of messaging that the company wanted to give

27:27

, because that's very , very important . I

27:29

was then able to start , so

27:31

I would listen to people that were sat next to me , Jake

27:34

, and they'd be calling people up and

27:37

you know the person on the

27:39

other end of the phone , because all we're dealing with is

27:41

high net worth individuals who are extremely

27:43

busy . These are C-suite level people , right

27:45

.

27:45

Exactly .

27:47

You know , what do you think these people are doing at five past

27:49

three on a Monday afternoon ? They're

27:51

probably just walking in late for a meeting

27:54

.

27:54

Yeah .

27:55

And you wanna just push through that and

27:58

you've gotta regurgitate this script

28:00

in front of you just to hit

28:03

another little X on your

28:05

call sheet , right ? No

28:07

, so you know , it's like my boss

28:09

would sit behind me sometimes and be like so

28:11

, jake , so you're me now . Right , jake

28:14

, I just overheard that call

28:16

and the guy picked up . You managed to get

28:18

through to him , but then you

28:21

asked him for permission to speak

28:23

. You asked him if it was okay

28:25

or was he in the middle of something

28:28

right now ? I heard you on another call

28:30

saying oh , are you on a conference

28:32

call right now ? Don't

28:34

do that . You just got hold

28:36

of the guy . It's really hard

28:38

to get a hold of these people . Once you get them , you

28:40

grab onto them , you don't let them go , and I'm

28:42

just like but isn't that just gonna piss the guy off ? Because

28:44

when people do that to me , I get pissed

28:47

off and I don't wanna do that to

28:49

someone else that I'm trying to build a long-term relationship

28:51

with .

28:55

I agree 100% .

28:57

For me , listening to what was going

29:00

. You know , when I train people , I would

29:02

say to them when your prospect answers

29:04

the call , listen

29:06

, not to them . Well

29:09

, listen to them . You want to listen to their tone

29:11

of voice . Do they sound stressed

29:14

out ? Do they sound distracted

29:16

? Is there

29:18

something going on in the background ? Can

29:20

you hear other people talking ? Because

29:23

they could be on a call , they could be in a meeting

29:25

, they could have just had some really , really

29:27

bad news , they could be under pressure with something

29:29

. Listen

29:31

and try to tune in in

29:34

the first five seconds , and that's

29:36

why , a lot of the time , when someone does pick

29:38

up the call , I will say to

29:40

them it's Roberto from

29:42

Roberto Revilla , london . Jake Stahl

29:44

asked me to give you a call and introduce myself

29:46

, but it sounds like I might have caught you

29:49

in the middle of something . I might have caught you

29:51

on the hot . Are you in the car right now ? Are

29:53

you on a conference call right now ? Yeah

29:55

, I am Okay . No problem , listen , I'm going

29:57

to get right off the phone . I'll give you a call another

29:59

time , roberto . Thank you , I appreciate

30:01

it . I'll speak to you soon . Oh , brilliant , okay

30:04

, great . So here's the next

30:06

time that I call . Oh

30:08

, that guy was actually considerate . Am

30:11

I wrong in anything that I'm doing here ?

30:15

No , as a matter of fact , I think that's probably

30:17

why you're successful

30:19

and why people view you differently . You

30:22

know , salespeople have made an ugly bed . We

30:25

get on the phone call and we think you

30:27

know , I got to make the sale , I

30:30

have to get something done . Because I just talked to him and

30:34

I agree with you , roberto . You remember

30:37

the people who are courteous and gracious

30:40

and respect your time . Now

30:42

, granted , you didn't make a sale at that instant

30:44

, but that person will

30:46

be more receptive to you the next time

30:48

, because one thing

30:50

we need to remember and it sounds like you have

30:52

this mastered already is every

30:55

conversation we had sets

30:57

a precedent for future conversations

30:59

. Every minute we

31:01

spend on the phone sets a precedent

31:03

for future minutes on the phone . So

31:06

when we look at a conversation , it's

31:09

super important to remember that

31:11

every second you're talking makes

31:13

an impression , and

31:15

that impression is going to be what makes

31:18

them pick up the phone next time . We're not picking up

31:20

, so no , I think you're dead

31:22

on , and it sounds to me like you

31:24

always had this secret .

31:27

So I've been dancing around it for the last few

31:29

minutes . But adaptive

31:31

conversational blueprint is

31:34

the concept that you've developed

31:36

to come up with . Talk

31:39

the listeners through that . They probably guess

31:41

what it means because it's pretty

31:43

on the nose as a description .

31:48

So there's a couple of pieces to it . The first

31:50

is everybody talks

31:52

about mirroring and everybody

31:54

says you know mimic , the gesture and the posture

31:56

that they're in , but that is one

31:59

one hundredth of nearing . So

32:01

part of adapting , Roberto , is listening

32:03

to what the cues are . We

32:05

all have some modalities , primarily

32:08

their visual , audio and kinesthetic

32:10

, and when somebody talks you

32:12

can get that modality . So

32:14

just talking to you , you rely on the verbal

32:17

modality a lot . So

32:19

when I speak to you or we talk about

32:21

something I try and mirror back

32:23

verbal modalities . So

32:27

if somebody were auditory I would be

32:29

more using audio modalities

32:31

. Talking with you , on the zoom

32:33

I watch your eye motions . Where

32:35

are you recalling memory from ? Where are you

32:37

picking up different cues from ? The

32:39

adaptive conversational blueprints says

32:41

you need to constantly be adapting

32:44

to that other person and making

32:46

sure you're always in tune .

32:48

And there's a lot to it , you

32:51

know I read a lot of things that say yeah

32:53

, mirroring is their tone and their

32:55

posture .

32:56

It is , but that is such a tiny

32:59

piece of mirroring . So

33:01

the adaptive conversational blueprints says you

33:04

start with a , you

33:06

do a lot of listening and

33:09

then you adapt your style as you

33:11

go . So I'm going

33:13

to mirror you the best I can and

33:15

if you have a negative thought and you're primarily

33:18

verbal , then I want to bring

33:20

in another modality . I want you to get

33:22

to get you to think kinesthetically and

33:25

auditory , so that other

33:27

parts of your brain start to kick in . So

33:29

I want to get you to think on

33:31

all levels and

33:34

I want to talk to you directly on all those levels

33:36

. I often call

33:38

this localization of message . So

33:41

if I'm sitting in New York City , I'll talk

33:43

to a fellow New Yorker one way , but

33:46

if I'm talking to somebody in Savannah Georgia , I

33:49

have to change dramatically

33:51

Right , I have to slow

33:53

down , I have to think about the linguistics

33:55

I use , I have to think about my syntax

33:57

and terminology and I want to match

34:00

their tone and their modality

34:02

to make sure we're on the same

34:04

level . Many

34:06

companies don't do that and scripts don't allow

34:09

you to do that , because you're

34:11

talking in the modality of the script writer

34:13

and that may not be that person

34:15

you're talking to . So the

34:17

adaptive conversational blueprint basically

34:19

tells you listen

34:21

, repeat back things people

34:23

say in a way that they're going to understand

34:26

, to elicit more information and

34:28

then adapt your process as you go

34:30

. This could take five seconds

34:33

, could take 30 , could take a minute and a half

34:35

. You could have somebody

34:37

that works primarily in all three modalities

34:39

. So you need to be careful with that as well . But

34:42

the bonding that takes place is amazing

34:45

. The coolest part , roberto

34:47

, is the psychological aspect . If

34:50

you and I enjoy talking to each other , you

34:52

don't enjoy the conversation , you

34:55

enjoy the feeling you get conversing

34:57

with me . So what winds up

34:59

happening then is you associate

35:01

that good feeling with my name and

35:03

then when my name comes up on your speed dial , you

35:06

go that's Jake , I

35:08

love talking to Jake . So

35:10

then you pick up the phone . But

35:14

here's where that can dramatically

35:16

interfere with the sales call . If

35:19

you have somebody sitting at the desk and they're fielding

35:21

calls for the C-suite people the decision

35:23

makers that phone

35:26

ringing automatically sets

35:28

off condition responses . It's

35:30

a rep . I have to get them off the phone . I

35:32

don't want to talk to anybody as

35:34

soon as their phone rings . I'm fighting things

35:37

and I will advocate

35:39

the absolute worst way to start

35:41

any conversation with

35:43

anyone is how are

35:45

you ? It's the death of the

35:47

sales call , and yet I hear it all

35:49

the time . Yeah

35:52

, so you need to adapt constantly

35:54

, roberto .

35:55

I'm sorry . I just wanted to say I'm so

35:57

glad you brought that up , because on

35:59

my notes right here is Hi

36:02

, how are you ? One of Gates pet hates

36:04

? Bring that up with him and see

36:06

how he reacts . Yeah , I

36:08

get that all the time . So I get like

36:11

numbers that I don't recognize right , and

36:13

then I answer the phone . Hi , it's Roberto

36:15

. Hi , roberto , how

36:18

are you ? What do

36:20

you want ?

36:21

Exactly .

36:22

Yeah , I don't know you . What do you want ? It's

36:25

the worst possible way to

36:27

start a conversation , right ? Because

36:29

then and even I'm conscious of it , because

36:32

I'm like you're being really horrible right now

36:34

, but then , at the same time , it's like , well , naturally

36:36

I don't do that to people . It's

36:39

like when I call people up , I didn't say Jake

36:41

, hi , it's Roberto , how are you ? Because

36:44

I know that the guy on the other end of the phone

36:46

is probably thinking I don't know who the hell you are . So

36:48

you better get to it down quick .

36:51

Right , Yep , my

36:53

wife and I went out shopping over the

36:56

Christmas holiday and I walked by and I my

36:59

eyes locked with another guy who was walking by me and I nodded

37:01

my head , I said hey , and

37:03

he said Good thanks , how are you ? The

37:06

conversation never took place , but

37:09

we're so conditioned to that it's

37:11

crazy . So imagine , Roberto , if

37:13

you called somebody and you did a little

37:15

bit of research ahead of time and

37:17

I you picked up the phone and hi , there's Roberto

37:19

. Roberto , this is Jake . You cannot

37:22

imagine how excited I was to talk

37:24

to you . I read about your podcast

37:26

, wanted to run something by you . Imagine

37:30

how that changes your perspective

37:32

. I break the conditioning

37:35

of hi . How are you ? I tell

37:37

you I'm looking forward to speaking with

37:39

you . So my call was intentional and

37:41

I knew a little bit about you and

37:43

what's your frame of mind then .

37:46

Oh , okay , yeah , it's like awesome

37:49

, wow . So who is this again

37:51

? Yeah .

37:52

So now you have your opening to get started . But

37:55

yeah , how are you has been a pet peeve

37:57

of mine for a long , long time

37:59

.

38:03

I love that and there will be other . You know

38:05

, like those knee jerk kind of muscle memory

38:07

reactions . You know like when you you're

38:09

talking to a friend and you put the phone down , you go

38:11

Okay , yeah , bye , thank

38:14

you very much , bye . And

38:16

then you're like what , what did I just do .

38:19

I just went to a while . When those really condition , one slips

38:21

out . Hey , good , talking to you . I love you .

38:23

I mean oh , I

38:28

get that sometimes from my clients , but

38:30

then we laugh about it because I messaged him often

38:33

and I'm like Jake , do you realize ? You just told me you

38:35

love me on the phone and he's like , oh my God

38:37

, you know what ? I just it was just

38:39

a knee-jerk response . I was on the phone to my wife

38:41

before that and you're the next closest

38:43

person in my life and I'm like you know

38:45

, I'm doing my job properly , right .

38:48

Conditioning is so powerful

38:51

and yet we never use

38:53

it to our advantage . To either use

38:55

it to help us or break

38:57

it to help us .

38:59

Yeah .

38:59

And this is what I help companies understand

39:02

your prospect wants a relationship

39:04

with you and for you to say to them hey

39:06

, I want to partner with you . What

39:09

does that even mean ? Show

39:11

me , don't tell me , and show me

39:13

from the first second I get on the phone with you . That's

39:16

what I want to hear you partner in .

39:18

Yeah , Does that translate to

39:20

? Does that translate

39:23

to when people are messaging

39:25

as well ? Because you know when and I do

39:28

it to hands up , right If

39:30

I can't reach someone who I've never

39:32

spoken before , I will drop

39:34

them a note , but

39:36

when people do that with me , it's

39:39

like they they're really holding everything

39:41

back . You know , same concept

39:43

as on the phone , right ? So it's

39:45

something a common one

39:47

that I get is something like Jake

39:52

, hey , fascinated

39:56

by the work that you do on the Terrain Talk

39:58

podcast , we would really love

40:00

to partner with you and

40:03

please , please , reply

40:06

if you're interested . And I'm

40:08

thinking number

40:10

one , I don't know who the F , you are . Number two partner

40:12

on what ? Number three , like I don't

40:14

understand any of what you just

40:17

said , and then I delete it . And

40:20

then they follow up a few days later

40:22

and I'm like hey , I

40:24

emailed you the other day . I

40:26

just want to make sure that you got the email and find

40:28

out if you're interested to talk further

40:31

. You can book a call on my calendar

40:33

. Click the link below . And

40:36

I'm just thinking it reminds me

40:38

. This person then reminds me of do you remember

40:40

the comedian he died ? Chris Farley

40:43

, I think his name was .

40:44

Oh yeah , chris Farley .

40:45

Remember that very famous scene I think it

40:47

might have been from one of his movies where he was like

40:49

an insurance salesman , I

40:51

think . And then

40:53

he's kind of describing , like you

40:55

know , the pitfalls of not having insurance

40:57

and the car setting fire , and he sets fire to

40:59

this car and this guy Do you

41:02

remember that one ?

41:03

Yeah , what a great movie .

41:04

Right , okay , I need to look that movie up

41:06

. I'd only ever seen that clip as an example

41:09

of you know like the worst , but

41:12

does it try what we've been talking about

41:15

in open dialogue ? Does that translate

41:17

in written communication as well , and how would someone

41:19

kind of go about approaching that , or would

41:21

you always advocate trying

41:24

to speak to someone in person ?

41:27

It's hard because , as a generation's go on

41:29

, there's certain parts of certain

41:31

generations that take a phone call

41:34

is almost like to assertive so

41:36

they want to get that electronic introduction

41:39

, which is fine . But

41:41

I think , roberto , the best way to answer

41:43

that question is to say I use different

41:45

modalities depending on what I

41:47

want to do . So if I'm

41:49

doing , let's say , an introduction , I want to introduce

41:52

you to a possible guest in the future , I'll

41:55

send out an introduction email . But

41:57

if I want to get you interested in partnering

42:00

or collaborating , I would

42:02

be much more brief and I would make it almost a little

42:04

mysterious . Like Roberto

42:06

, saw your podcast , listen

42:08

to five episodes , loved it

42:11

. Curious how you choose your

42:13

guests . You

42:15

know , just kind of get

42:18

you to talk a little bit . So

42:20

it depends on the modality . If

42:23

I'm dealing with my kids , I three daughters

42:25

and a son if I'm dealing with them , they know

42:27

if they're going to go beyond two sentences , don't

42:30

email me or text me . You call me

42:32

text and email is not

42:34

anything for something past two sentences

42:36

, unless it needs to be retained

42:39

for some weird reason . But

42:42

our attention span for reading . I just

42:44

talked to a marketing expert the other day . They said

42:46

you've got eight seconds . Once

42:49

you go beyond that , nobody's going to read me

42:52

further or absorb anything further . So

42:55

I try to keep any written communication

42:57

I do super brief , a little

43:00

bit mysterious . I

43:02

don't ask them for anything unless it's

43:04

about them , and then I follow

43:06

up with a phone call . Yeah just

43:08

my mode , not saying that's the answer for everybody

43:11

, it's just I prefer to do it .

43:13

Yeah , yeah , no , it's awesome . But

43:15

you see , you gave a couple of live examples

43:17

there and listeners can't see my

43:19

reaction , but when this goes on YouTube , they

43:22

will . But

43:24

you know , we

43:26

actually gave some examples of

43:28

how an approach can provoke

43:31

a negative or positive reaction , right . So

43:33

when we were doing the phone thing . we

43:36

probably could have actually workshopped it a bit better

43:38

, so I'm sorry about that but

43:40

you know , like we gave the first example

43:42

of the wrong quote , unquote , wrong

43:44

way to do it , and you know I was almost

43:46

swearing at you , which I don't want to do

43:48

because you're such a lovely guy . And

43:51

I don't want to expose you to my potty mouth , but

43:54

then you gave your approach and immediately

43:56

I actually felt better about myself . I

43:58

was like , oh my God , this guy's done his homework and , yeah

44:01

, actually I'd like to talk to him . And

44:04

then it was the same , with the written version , right

44:07

, my version . Like what the hell do you want

44:09

your one ? I'm curious

44:11

as to how you select your guess . Oh

44:13

, wow , he's curious about something that I do

44:15

. Hmm , maybe I want

44:17

to share this with him .

44:20

You know , it opens the door , right

44:22

, which is it does , and

44:25

I think the thing people need to remember

44:27

when doing this is people do this a lot

44:29

Like . If I could show you a way

44:31

to do this , would you be interested ? Wrong

44:33

question to ask . You're asking

44:36

a question where you're guaranteeing a yes . Well

44:38

, of course I'd be interested . The

44:41

way to do it is to ask something more

44:43

open-ended . Just

44:45

let their mind wonder . Let it break

44:47

the conditioning of the yes or no . I'm

44:50

not taking away from any of the books that say

44:52

how to get to yes or getting no

44:54

right away is a great idea to approach

44:56

things . I'm not taking anything away from

44:58

those methodologies . As a matter of fact , they're amazing

45:01

in the right scenarios but

45:04

to me , breaking the conditioning of

45:06

a yes or no and getting them

45:08

to tell a little bit about themselves is

45:11

how I start somebody to get to feel good

45:13

about communicating with me .

45:16

Yeah .

45:17

I'm not saying it works 100% of the time

45:19

, but it has worked well enough

45:21

that 99%

45:24

of business I get is through referrals People

45:27

just saying , hey , you really need to talk to Jake about this

45:29

, and

45:32

I think that's the best place to be . It's

45:34

just not

45:36

having to rely or

45:38

build your life around cold

45:41

calls and you need

45:43

them to get started . But the whole

45:45

goal , man , is to build such relationships

45:47

with people that they say , hey , listen

45:50

, roberto's the guy you got to talk to . I'll

45:52

make an intro right now . That's

45:54

the spot you want to get to , yeah

45:57

.

45:58

Jake , I am conscious

46:00

of time and I want to

46:03

ask you about 210 .

46:04

Yeah , we can , we can come in the nutshell

46:07

.

46:09

But I feel like I could go

46:11

on and on with you forever . But I mean

46:13

, we're talking about such a complex subject

46:16

, right , but talk to me about

46:19

210 . And it's

46:21

something that you are going to

46:23

. I mean , at the moment , you're working on a book which

46:25

is not in a form that we can talk about at

46:27

the moment . It will be coming

46:30

in the future , but 210

46:32

is something that you will be talking about within

46:34

that . Talk to me about the

46:36

210 rule of communication , because that

46:38

is something that really intrigued me when

46:40

I saw this theorem that

46:43

you've come up with . You

46:46

need to name it the Stull

46:48

method of anyway . Over

46:51

to you , sir .

46:53

So the 210 rule says it's

46:55

this in a nutshell the

46:57

cadence of a conversation is

47:00

far more important than a content

47:02

, especially in the beginning . Let

47:04

me tell you what I mean . The 210

47:07

rule basically says for every two

47:09

minutes you're talking to somebody

47:11

, you should add one interaction

47:13

, meaning that I get you

47:16

to talk more than a yes or no , but

47:18

I get you to talk in the conversation

47:21

and at the end of 10 minutes I

47:24

make sure I wrap up which we just

47:26

said over the last 10 minutes . So

47:28

, roberto man , we just talked about a lot and

47:30

I have blathered endlessly

47:32

. Do you have any questions or

47:34

have I been unclear on anything ? So

47:38

the first objection I get is

47:40

wow , two and 10 minutes . What if the conversation

47:42

short ? The two and 10 are

47:44

just the police tape around maximum

47:47

times . Don't go beyond two

47:49

minutes without an interaction . Don't

47:51

go beyond 10 minutes without a

47:53

good , all encompassing question

47:55

. For all I care , it could be the 22nd

47:58

two minute rule , it could be the 32nd five

48:00

minute rule , but make

48:03

sure those are buried in there . And

48:05

here's why People

48:07

need to be heard . You

48:09

look back in our history . You see cave drawings

48:12

. So even back to our caveman

48:14

ancestors , there were

48:16

people yearning to be heard . They either

48:18

want to see their story again or they want other

48:20

people to see their story . So

48:23

we've always needed to be heard . So

48:26

if I can encourage that interaction between

48:28

the two of us by doing that those

48:30

two and 10 breaks it's

48:32

amazing how , what

48:35

an increase in feedback there is on

48:37

both sides . You're happy because

48:39

I'm not just yelling at you . I'm

48:42

happy because I'm learning about you

48:44

, which I want to do , and at the end of 10 minutes

48:46

I'm removing any doubts about what

48:48

we just talked about the previous 10 minutes and

48:51

then I'm restarting the process again

48:53

. So it encourages

48:55

interaction and conversation . And

48:58

the reason I developed this , roberto , is very simple . In

49:01

the past 30 years in training development , I have heard

49:03

countless teachers say you

49:05

have to have a conversation , you have to actively

49:07

listen , but nobody has ever said

49:09

here's how you do

49:11

that effectively . All

49:14

I did was put time parameters on there and

49:17

then , during my coursework on 210

49:19

, I teach you how to create those interactions

49:21

through empathetic statements and questions

49:23

, through mirroring , through repeat

49:26

backs and then , as

49:28

it lines up , happening as people's relationships

49:30

grow . I've helped marry couples with

49:32

this and they can now talk

49:34

to each other again as

49:38

kids . Roberto , this is easy . Listen to

49:40

two five year olds I like

49:42

trucks . What do you like ? My favorite color is black

49:44

. Do you like pink ? That's my mom . Which one is

49:46

yours ? It's natural

49:49

Somewhere along the line we lose it and

49:52

sales people for some reason never

49:55

get it back . All

49:57

I do is teach you how to have the perfect

49:59

conversation and how to

50:01

make it meaningful . The rest of

50:03

it just sells itself . Because once

50:05

you and I have that in that cadence back

50:07

and forth , the content matters

50:10

. But until that case

50:12

is there ? My argument and my theory

50:14

is the content has very little impact

50:16

.

50:19

Everything that we've talked about is about

50:21

creating little micro

50:23

win-win situations in

50:26

between each site , right , whether

50:28

it's sales person to prospects

50:30

or just with each other . And it's funny

50:32

because I was thinking when

50:35

you were describing 210 there , I was thinking

50:37

exactly that in

50:39

a relationship situation . So

50:43

my wife , for example , I

50:45

could actually benefit our relationship

50:48

a hell of a lot if I applied that kind

50:50

of rule . Right , because most of

50:52

the time she just wants me to listen to her

50:54

and I know that I don't listen

50:56

to her because she constantly tells me that I

50:58

don't . There

51:03

was a famous I think

51:05

it was McDonald's , but the guy

51:08

I think it's

51:10

McDonald's it

51:12

was an advert that ran over here in Britain

51:14

, jay , you'd have probably loved it . But

51:17

the guy's daydreaming about what he's kind

51:20

of ordered , like the new steak stack or whatever

51:22

, and

51:25

his wife asked him a

51:27

question . He completely does

51:29

not pay attention . And then she's like

51:31

, hey , tell me , what do you think ? And

51:34

he turns around and he's like , oh

51:36

, orange

51:39

, because

51:41

he's got no freaking clue what the hell

51:43

she was talking about .

51:45

That's great .

51:46

Yeah , that's my household , Jake

51:50

. Thank you so , so much Thanks

51:53

for having me . I would

51:55

you let me know when the book's ready so

51:57

that we can actually get on again and talk

51:59

about it . And I want to buy

52:02

it , but

52:04

I just I want to . I want to spend more

52:06

time with you . You're awesome . I

52:08

think it's also because of some of the little examples

52:10

you gave that have like just strengthens

52:12

our connection . But

52:15

yeah , no , I had a blast with you and I think

52:17

you were recommended

52:20

to me as a guest .

52:22

Am I correct ? Yes , I was yeah , yeah

52:26

, yeah , yeah , there's that referral thing

52:28

again there was that referral thing again

52:30

right ? But yeah .

52:32

I just every interact , listen

52:34

you lot listening . Every interaction

52:36

that I've had with Jake prior to jumping on

52:38

today and today is the first time he

52:41

and I have spoken . We only had a couple minutes

52:43

of pre-talk , so you've heard our relationship

52:46

develop over the last 45

52:48

minutes or so and

52:51

he is living , breathing

52:53

, testament to everything

52:55

that he actually

52:57

does . So if you do

53:00

want to book a free one hour

53:02

consultation with Jake and explore

53:04

how he's able to help you to elevate

53:06

your game whether

53:08

you're someone who is maybe

53:11

in leadership within a corporate organization

53:14

that wants to kind of give a

53:16

kick up the ass to

53:18

your sales organization so actually , no , that's not what

53:20

we do , we help or

53:22

you're an individual that is is just

53:24

really looking to kind of up

53:27

your own sales game , then

53:29

you can get 60 minutes , no

53:31

obligation , with Jake . Go to

53:33

Karen Lee dot com . Forward slash Jake

53:36

style consulting . Forward slash 60

53:38

hyphen minute , hyphen meeting

53:41

, and I'll put that

53:43

in the show notes as well . You can book a call

53:45

with him . You've

53:47

just spent the last 45 minutes listening to

53:49

him . He's a lovely , lovely human

53:51

being . He's not going to ram anything down

53:54

your throat . But if , after that 60

53:56

minutes , I reckon

53:58

, jake , your attitude is if you've managed to help

54:00

someone and they don't want to do anything after that

54:02

, that's absolutely fine .

54:05

But yeah , there's no pressure .

54:07

I'm guessing , more often than not , that you

54:09

know they want to do something with you , so

54:11

thank you . So yeah , so head

54:13

to that link . Jake , have you had fun

54:15

today ?

54:16

Oh my God , Roberto , this is one of the best podcasts

54:19

I've ever been on . This was fantastic

54:21

.

54:22

Oh , thank you . I'm going red underneath

54:24

this brown exterior , but

54:27

no , thank you . Thank you

54:29

, we didn't talk about your dog . You have

54:31

a German shepherd . I grew up with German shepherds

54:34

.

54:35

Yes , her name is Carrie . She is

54:37

a wonderful dog . Responds

54:39

to probably 1520 commands and

54:42

I take no credit , for she's smarter than

54:44

I am . When I'm

54:46

not talking to her , she's typing her master's thesis

54:48

somewhere in the bedroom . Hits .

54:50

She's a good dog yeah . I'm blessed

54:52

and I can see how much you love her , because I could

54:54

see . I could see the emotion in your

54:56

eyes all of a sudden .

54:58

Yeah , she's a great dog .

55:00

I mean , I love us so much and our

55:02

cat , Frankie . He's kind of sitting just

55:04

on the chair next to me in the , in the CFO's

55:07

chair over there . The

55:10

only one that we struggle with is the Bengal , but

55:12

you know she's semi-feral . What can you do , Jake

55:15

? Thank you so , so much . Thank

55:17

you all so much for joining Jake

55:19

and I . I've had so much fun with Jake

55:22

today and I've learned so much , and I hope you have as

55:24

well . Please follow us on Instagram

55:26

for our latest episode updates , highlights

55:29

and news . The podcast is also available

55:31

on YouTube . I didn't realize , Jake , do you

55:33

know how many people listen to podcasts on YouTube

55:35

? Your eyebrows are foreign . It's crazy

55:38

. Currently they just press

55:40

play . Even the ones

55:42

that there's no video . They just press play

55:44

on their laptops or whatever and just leave them running

55:46

in the background .

55:48

I had heard that YouTube was becoming

55:50

the top podcasting platform

55:52

.

55:53

I think that's fascinating . It's great . I think

55:56

it's fantastic . You and

55:58

I are going to do this again . Sounds great , yeah

56:01

, and if you've got any questions for Jake

56:03

or for me , email the show at

56:05

tenorintalkpodcastgmailcom and I'll put them forward

56:07

to Jake . He and I are in touch

56:09

now and who'd be more than happy

56:11

to answer them . Maybe we could do some shorts or

56:13

something . Hit

56:16

subscribe , give me a rating and review , click

56:19

the share button in your player to send

56:21

this episode Someone you

56:23

know who needs to hear what Jake shared and

56:25

taught us today . And if you want to

56:27

support the show , there is a support the show link

56:29

in the show notes . Have a great week

56:31

, be good to each other and

56:34

I'll catch you on the next one .