0:22

Welcome to our Ted Lasso talk , the

0:25

Tedcast . Welcome all Greyhound

0:27

fans , welcome all you sinners from

0:29

the dog track and all the AFC Richmond

0:31

fans around the world . It's the Lasso

0:34

way around these parts with Coach , coach

0:36

and Boss , without further ado , coach

0:38

Castleton .

0:40

Okay , welcome back , beautiful people

0:42

. Today we are discussing the Bear

0:44

. It's a little show they have

0:46

over on FX slash Hulu

0:48

, you may have heard of it , won a

0:50

couple awards here and there . Here

0:53

and there , what we usually do is

0:55

we break down episodes , but

0:57

we had an advantageous

1:00

moment here to take advantage

1:02

of it's redundant .

1:04

Of me . Use advantage twice . Take advantage of it's redundant . Use advantage

1:06

twice . Take advantage of me is what you mean

1:08

to say .

1:08

We had an amazing opportunity to

1:11

stick it to coach in

1:13

a way that used

1:15

all of his own core

1:18

values against him and of course you

1:21

know I was going to jump at that . So here's

1:23

the situation Today

1:25

we are discussing the Bear

1:27

writ large and the reason we're doing

1:29

that is because season

1:31

three is about to drop . In fact , by

1:34

the time you hear this , season three will

1:36

have dropped and we will

1:38

be prepping to go over

1:40

season three . Now , if you're just joining us

1:42

, welcome . Thank you for joining us . We

1:44

love to talk about shows that matter and

1:46

that have implications for society

1:49

and reflect values and changing

1:51

dynamics of socio-political

1:55

sort of events in

1:58

modern society . We

2:01

like to break down episodes . We like to talk about what

2:03

makes them work and maybe what

2:05

doesn't in certain cases , but generally

2:07

we try to pick great shows . Today

2:09

, Uh , we're with the bear . We

2:11

started with Ted Lasso . That was the impetus

2:13

for this podcast was say

2:15

, why is a bear podcast not

2:18

called the bear cast ? Why is it called the Ted cat ? Well , because

2:20

we started with Ted Lasso , and usually

2:22

we we wear the required uniform

2:24

, except today , I don't know , must

2:27

be laundry day for coach and boss . They

2:29

are out of their

2:31

fatigues . They're beating you . I am your host

2:33

, Coach Castleton With me . Thankfully

2:36

, as always , is

2:39

Coach Bishop .

2:41

Fresh off drinking from a hose

2:43

. Yes

2:46

, that would be me . Um

2:48

, that was a lot . That was a lot . Lot

2:50

of emotions , a lot of laughs

2:52

, a lot of a lot okay

2:55

, so uh , also with us is our boss

2:57

, emily chambers .

2:58

And boss , before you , uh , jump in . I

3:00

, I , I I'm gonna let you finish , but I

3:02

wanted to explain what's happening is that boss

3:05

and I had had previously watched the bear

3:08

. We watched it , you know , when it dropped immediately

3:10

and and uh , coach , it

3:12

wasn't on his radar . He thought it

3:14

was white nonsense , I think was his direct

3:16

quote why I didn't watch it . No

3:18

, that was not oh okay , no , I made that up . That's

3:21

just racism . That's just that's just

3:23

garden variety , everyday racism . Folks , um

3:26

, no , no , uh , uh , coach , uh

3:28

, he just hadn't gotten around to it . It's on his list . He heard good

3:30

things , and so what we've been doing is

3:32

we've been have been covering the show and having him

3:34

sort of um sign on

3:37

to uh

3:47

, as it's sort of happening , as the reactions are happening , and um , then we said , hey , actually

3:49

, coach , uh , season three is dropping and we're gonna have to cover that

3:51

. So how's about you watch everything ? Uh

3:53

, in about 11 minutes , just watch every

3:55

episode of the bear . Uh , just

3:57

take all that natural anxiety

4:00

you were born with and just compress

4:03

it into something that will later become

4:05

sickness . And

4:08

, and so he has finished his watch through

4:10

. As of last night . I was so impressed

4:12

, he wasn't sure he was going to be able to do it . Very

4:15

proud of him , but he is nothing

4:17

if not a team player . And and he

4:19

was he said I don't know , I don't know , and I was like I've been on teams with you before , bro

4:21

, you're going to do that . I don't know , and I was like I've

4:23

been on teams with you before , bro , you're going to do

4:25

that . I knew it . I knew he was going to figure out a

4:27

way , and so

4:29

he has . So what we're going to do here is explore

4:32

Coach's

4:34

experience of what he

4:36

calls drinking from the hose and what it feels

4:38

like to just binge

4:41

straight through every

4:43

episode of

4:45

the Bear . But first , boss

4:48

Emily Chambers , hello .

4:50

Hi , how's it going ? So

4:53

I will say I like this idea that

4:55

we are going to be talking about the larger topics

4:57

explored in the

4:59

Bear grief and

5:02

, you know , trying

5:04

to achieve greatness

5:06

and what that takes and how you

5:08

heal and taking responsibility

5:10

and accountability for your actions and

5:12

offering forgiveness to others . And in

5:15

that vein , because it's very timely

5:17

, I will say fuck Justin Timberlake

5:19

.

5:21

Ah , you know , I'm maybe

5:24

you can fill me in . We have have

5:26

um .

5:27

It's gonna ruin the tour , but okay you know what

5:29

?

5:30

wait , wait , which tour , which tour yeah

5:33

, the world tour , world tour uh

5:36

, in case anybody is listening to this many months out

5:38

for some reason . Uh , recently

5:40

in the news , justin timberlake was pulled over for

5:43

drunk driving in the Hamptons

5:45

in Sag Harbor . It's been

5:47

a bit of a news thing . Twitter has fucking run

5:49

wild with it . I'm not even on Twitter and I

5:51

know all that shit Same

5:53

here , I was not a fan

5:55

of Mr Timberlake's before , so

5:58

this just sort of reinforces my idea

6:00

that coming off of this and

6:02

saying , oh , I had one , martini , I didn't do anything

6:05

wrong , having hit piece in the fucking

6:07

new york post about how the cop

6:10

who pulled him over is like a

6:12

local menace and all of the residents hate him

6:14

, it's fucking garbage , it's all it's

6:16

. It's a lot of avoiding

6:18

responsibility . Oh

6:20

, believe me , I have been feasting

6:23

on this shit for days .

6:25

My coach . He's like how are we here ? How ?

6:27

are we here ?

6:28

I know , but I love it , though I'm

6:30

this is this is our problem

6:33

slash secret sauce .

6:34

It is , it's it's the truth , but I

6:36

think I genuinely

6:39

I mean this when I say this . I

6:45

say this I think that what the bear does a great job of is acknowledging

6:47

people's faults and giving them space to grow , and also acknowledging

6:49

that those faults shouldn't be overlooked

6:51

just because we like a person

6:53

or we see growth or anything else . That there

6:55

is a way of dealing with those issues . And

6:58

uh , timberlake

7:00

would be like I don't know . What's the

7:03

opposite of a bear ? What ? What is the opposite

7:05

of taking responsibility for your actions and

7:07

growing over time ? Yeah , I don't know .

7:09

He is a Somewhere .

7:10

Yeah , I don't even want to say crocodile

7:13

, because I know that they've been around for millions of years

7:15

. But Right .

7:16

Crocodiles Is there an animal that shits

7:19

in your nest and then makes it your problem

7:21

.

7:21

Yes , yeah , who does that ?

7:23

Is there an animal that does that ? That ?

7:25

does what ? That

7:27

shits in your nest yeah . That would make

7:29

it my problem , wouldn't it

7:31

? Yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah , yeah .

7:34

So I would much rather talk about the

7:36

bear and the exploration

7:38

of growth , but I did need to get

7:40

in here and make sure , for timely

7:42

reasons , to be like JCc

7:45

chazay deserves

7:47

that career that

7:49

was our mistake I hate

7:51

that .

7:51

I know who jc chazay is

7:53

because that's just a matter of my

7:56

sister-in-law having been just the perfect

7:58

age when I got

8:00

married , that I soaked that

8:02

in and that's like that's real estate

8:04

I could use . That is space

8:07

in my brain . Like those Uber Eats

8:09

commercials . That's

8:11

space in my brain I need , but

8:14

I want to toss this in . That

8:16

was my idea happening .

8:17

Yes , I was like oh , we've

8:19

got sound effects now .

8:21

Who got the ?

8:22

soundboard . I love it .

8:23

No , no , that's what that sounds like when I

8:25

have a thought I am I am on a mac for the

8:27

first time , everybody , and that was me

8:30

and I'm like wait , I just immediately run your

8:32

general sound through your headphones

8:35

as well , because probably right now you're only running

8:37

your um yeah , yeah

8:39

riverside sound through your headphones .

8:41

Ask me how I know ? How do you know , coach

8:43

? Because , uh , I've dinged

8:45

up on this bad boy in the past . You may

8:47

not remember that . Okay

8:51

, got it . You might also want to put your focus

8:53

on , because it sounds like you're getting dinged to

8:55

shit and I'm very popular

8:58

called adhd .

8:59

I'm very eyeballs are gonna

9:01

how do you do that on the mac ?

9:03

you're gonna sprain a retina up

9:05

on your right . Yeah , it's like a thing that looks

9:07

like um sliders .

9:09

Yeah , yeah , probably next to oh my god , are you still

9:11

hearing these dings ?

9:13

shut up guys these are my best

9:15

friends in my , in my

9:17

soul , I want to text you as

9:23

I'm explaining if you had done

9:25

that I would have been so

9:27

, so impressed .

9:29

That is , that is , that's Machiavellian

9:31

. I , I'm not , I'm not .

9:32

That that's more of a me move

9:34

than a you move I , I really , I guess

9:37

I do not like that I'm rubbing off

9:39

on you .

9:39

In that way , I'm empowering you . Yesterday

9:41

, yesterday , was my birthday and Coach

9:44

, of course I've got the

9:47

loveliest birthday wishes . That's

9:51

interesting , it's so funny how birthdays

9:53

work over the years . But for some

9:56

reason yesterday

9:58

was particularly thoughtful

10:00

messages and

10:04

Coach Especially mine . Yeah

10:08

. And then Coach always sends me bitmojis and I'm like

10:10

what the he knows ? I hate bitmojis . He

10:13

sends that to me for my birthday and

10:15

then I just thumbs down it , I don't even

10:17

respond . I'm like everyone else is sending me the most you

10:19

know , loveliest thing that coaches . And then what

10:22

he does is directly texts

10:24

my children Because

10:27

he's their favorite uncle , and

10:29

then they start texting me

10:32

, my own offspring , on

10:34

my birthday .

10:35

It was so funny . Oh , my God

10:37

. It did not take

10:40

much encouragement for them to be like oh

10:42

, are we busting dad's walls ? Oh , no , no , no much encouragement for them to be like oh , are

10:44

we busting dad's walls ?

10:45

Oh , no , no , no . They were thrilled , thrilled

10:48

to jump in with Uncle Orlando

10:50

. Oh my

10:52

God . That was not fun . But

10:56

, coach , all right , so let's

10:58

start with Boss . Thank you . As

11:00

the token white man on the podcast , I

11:03

think it's my job to defend Justin Timberlake

11:05

. That's funny , and I will not . I

11:08

just don't . You

11:12

said Timberlakes , you pluralized

11:15

it Like Liam Neeson's

11:17

.

11:18

Sure , yeah , liam Neeson's .

11:21

So that's something I wanted to not let

11:23

slip by as people were listening . I wanted

11:25

to , uh , not let slip by as people were listening . Uh , I , I , uh , I wanted

11:27

to call that out and , um , as

11:29

far as the other stuff , I , I have just

11:32

blissfully , magically

11:34

avoided reading , hearing

11:36

or having it part of my consciousness

11:39

. Uh , and so , um

11:41

, yeah , I believe in the rule of law and

11:43

the story . Okay , uh

11:46

, I don't , I don't , it doesn't . I

11:48

did see something where it was like , oh , this guy's a

11:50

menace , the local , or he's a rookie

11:52

, or he's young , and

11:54

I don't , I don't , I don't , do

11:57

not care .

11:58

Well , sorry , I

12:00

need to point out , if this were a

12:03

, if this didn't feel like a hit

12:05

piece , I would also not care . It felt very

12:07

intentionally like they were trying to smear

12:09

the arresting officer as part

12:11

of the case , and that is icky

12:13

as shit , like you fucked up . You

12:16

made a big mistake , fucking , fix

12:18

it . Don't go out of

12:22

. The unintentionally funniest things that the New York Post has ever

12:24

done is that they were talking about the nicknames that

12:26

this poor officer has gotten from the local

12:28

millionaires in Sag Harbor , and

12:31

one of them was something about how he's the Sag

12:34

Harbor Nazi , traffic Nazi

12:36

, and I'm like , yeah , that's exactly what Nazis were

12:38

known for . That's why we make that

12:40

. And

12:43

the other one was the Exactly it , fucking exactly

12:45

. That's the insult . And the other one was the that's what it stops saying . Exactly that's

12:50

what we hated about them , that they were such

12:52

rule followers and sticklers . But

12:55

the other one was that they nicknamed him that

12:58

red headed dipshit and then they showed

13:00

a picture of this very ginger man and I'm like

13:02

, wow , the originality , guys . Little

13:05

red headed dipshit , that's what you came

13:07

up with , nice , that's

13:09

. That is fucking great Love

13:12

it , you got to . You got to . Yeah

13:14

, you really got it .

13:19

It's really a boy picture of ourselves

13:21

in a national uh newspaper

13:23

. Uh , with something

13:26

like that as as the

13:28

uh , as the uh

13:30

uh description boy that would be .

13:32

That's gotta be rewarding sometimes

13:34

there are insults that are so on point

13:37

, like uh I

13:39

in fast and the furious when

13:41

uh the rock says something about

13:44

, about , you need to cover up that big-ass forehead

13:46

. It's the gif where

13:48

Ludacris is doing the spit-take because it's so funny

13:50

. There are some times where it's so on

13:52

point that you're like that's hilarious , and this is a

13:54

case where it does not work .

13:56

Calling him the little red-headed dipshit

13:59

.

13:59

It's like he does have red

14:01

hair . How did you figure that out ? The

14:04

perception Super original . Fucking

14:06

amazing .

14:06

Love it and now

14:09

the bear who owns the post , by

14:11

the way , isn't that like one of those ? It ?

14:12

might be a Murdoch one .

14:14

Yeah , it feels like it's Murdoch I feel like yeah

14:16

, I was going to say it feels like it's some not

14:19

very far but indirect kind of thing

14:21

, big recollection .

14:23

Which I should clarify . I

14:25

do not read for news sources . This was on reddit . Somebody

14:27

was like look at how fucking hilariously bad

14:29

this shit is . And I was like I will look , I

14:31

will definitely look at that it

14:34

listen , that's .

14:36

One of the benefits of uh

14:39

generational wealth is

14:41

that you have a pr team who

14:44

goes to work and

14:46

they , uh , I have , I have , uh

14:48

, I've . I've been

14:50

on that side of it a couple of times

14:52

in a business capacity where someone

14:55

I was working with blew up and

14:58

and then there was this , these meetings

15:00

about how to spin it and how to turn it and

15:03

how to you know , and I was like , wow , it's . And I was like , wow , it's , it's

15:06

legitimately gross , but it's a job and

15:09

uh , you know , some people are very

15:11

good at it .

15:12

The weirdest part is that , uh , justin

15:14

Timberlake has the money to

15:16

do that , to spin this , and

15:19

somehow couldn't afford a fucking

15:21

Uber . It's wild .

15:23

It's wild . That's the thing . It's wild

15:25

. Can't figure that out .

15:27

And I will connect this because I know we've been trying

15:30

to get over to the bear , for

15:32

I don't know the entire time we've been on . But

15:38

I think the grossest part and the

15:40

reason why I was so aware of it to join in

15:42

with boss on ruin the tour

15:44

is , excuse me

15:46

, there was such privilege , like it was

15:48

just the whole incident

15:51

was just drenched in

15:53

fucking privilege and that

15:55

your comment

15:57

to this guy , as if he should like

16:00

now you know , get it and

16:02

get you home and keep this quiet

16:04

is like you're going to ruin the tour . Like

16:07

no , you're going to ruin the tour , you

16:10

know you're going on tour .

16:12

What the fuck are you drunk driving for Whoa

16:14

whoa . What do you mean ?

16:15

You're going to ruin the tour . Wait a

16:17

second . Whatever , this is good , like it's not

16:19

like . Who told you to drive

16:21

your drunk ass down this road ?

16:24

Coach , Like , who

16:26

told you to drive your drunk ass down this

16:28

road ? Coach ? What are you doing ? Coach

16:30

? What good is privilege if you don't use it

16:32

? I mean , it'll expire , coach , If you don't use it . That's the whole point

16:35

of privilege . It's being privileged

16:37

.

16:37

It was so clear to him that that was what

16:39

was supposed to happen , and

16:46

I feel like the post going

16:48

after this police officer police officer which I am a renowned

16:49

defender . Yeah , yeah , no , you like the police oh

16:52

, oh yeah .

16:52

There's nothing else you you should take away

16:54

from life around me is that I loves

16:57

the police . But

17:02

but seriously , I'm just like what

17:04

, like it's

17:07

just . It's amazing to me because it's not

17:09

even like he wasn't , it wasn't even . Do you

17:11

know who I am . It was like come

17:13

on , man like this is not the system

17:16

. Yep , it hasn't

17:18

, it has not been . It has not been

17:20

the system it's so his expectation

17:22

that he was kind of like what

17:25

, what are you doing ? And I just find that astounding

17:28

.

17:28

I remember I find it amazing . I remember reading

17:30

I think it was a Frank Sinatra

17:32

biography and I could be wrong . Someone

17:35

who knows better one of the buttercups can

17:37

correct me on

17:40

the community site . But I remember reading

17:42

something along the lines of the fact

17:44

that the police in angeles

17:46

had a special unit to deal with celebrities

17:48

when they fucked up . So it

17:50

was like it was like sinatra and

17:53

I don't know . It wasn't pink cross , it's

17:55

not trying somebody driving

17:57

around la shooting out street lights

17:59

for fun with guns right

18:02

.

18:02

What fucking Christ , what the fuck

18:04

man .

18:04

Yeah , like you do . And

18:07

I mean , coach , how many times have you done that

18:09

? And then the police come up and they

18:11

say like oh hey , mr Bishop

18:13

, we want to knock that off

18:15

, please . And you're like ah , and they're like let me escort

18:17

you home . Do

18:20

you need us to replace your bullets ?

18:22

It was that type of thing .

18:24

Exactly , and so

18:26

, yeah , so to get from there

18:28

to here , lest we

18:32

lose track of the entire arc

18:34

of the universe , does

18:36

feel like progress . There's some accountability

18:40

. Well , yeah , my biggest takeaway

18:42

and we'll get to the bear was

18:44

people were clutching their pearls

18:46

that he had traces of cocaine in

18:48

his system . Oh my God , can you imagine

18:51

someone like Justin Timberlake with

18:53

cocaine ?

18:53

in his system . I hadn't heard about the coke . Well

18:55

, that explains the jumping behind the wheel . He

18:59

probably thought he could triple jump home

19:01

, seriously .

19:02

You're a superhero . Okay

19:04

, coach

19:08

, you watched everything .

19:08

Oh , oh well , yes , but yeah , but to connect , ah

19:11

, I , I know , really . I

19:13

love one

19:15

thing I love about the bear and one of the reasons

19:17

I needed more processing time , like

19:19

I will definitely have

19:21

to re-watch all of that , like that really was

19:23

you . Those of you who've been listening

19:25

since the beginning of Ted Lasso know how I

19:27

watch things , so the idea of me watching

19:30

all those episodes pretty much

19:32

most of the show in a day , is

19:35

a lot . But

19:37

one of the things that I did love about

19:40

it is the

19:43

show One . The

19:45

way foibles , faults

19:47

are presented feels very

19:49

real to me and

19:52

we tend to fall into good characters , bad

19:54

characters , right , and this

19:56

show is like yeah , no , no , not

19:58

really , like you

20:01

know , everybody's fucked

20:03

up to some degree , everybody's got love in their heart

20:05

to some degree , everybody's nursing their pain

20:07

to some degree , and

20:10

but the show doesn't

20:13

, in my opinion , let

20:16

them get away with being

20:19

flawed in the way they're flawed . It's

20:21

not like well

20:23

, I guess I can talk about anything on this one , because we're

20:25

warning people yeah , we're gonna talk about the first

20:27

two seasons . Yeah , yeah , so fast

20:30

forwarding um to the season two

20:32

finale . There's

20:35

a version of this show where

20:38

car me is in

20:41

the free . If

20:43

you have not what , I'm gonna pause again

20:45

. If you have not watched all this shit

20:47

, you might want to stop now because I'm gonna

20:50

just time travel all over official spoiler

20:52

warning . Thank you , coach . But but

20:55

he's in the walk-in and

20:58

he does his mea culpa

21:00

speech which

21:03

the whole time he was saying it I

21:05

was like I don't really think

21:07

this is like the takeaway . But like I was with

21:09

the show so I was like , okay , let me see how this plays

21:12

. But in real time I was like I

21:14

don't think pay

21:16

attention means you can't

21:19

have healthy human , human relationships

21:21

. But okay , like let's see where this goes

21:23

. And then to

21:25

have this

21:28

absolutely wonderful

21:30

woman who's done nothing except

21:33

say I like you a

21:35

whole hell of a lot and I have liked

21:37

you a whole hell of a lot for a whole lot

21:39

of fucking years , have

21:41

her sit there and listen to him say

21:44

that there is no happiness

21:46

life with her could produce

21:48

. That would be worth screwing up

21:50

anything about the restaurant

21:52

. Now , do I think that if

21:54

you get him out of that freezer

21:56

and give him a chance to take

21:59

a deep breath and

22:02

maybe have a drink and hear about

22:04

how things went that night , that

22:06

he maybe wouldn't have said that quite that way

22:08

or might have reconsidered his position . Sure

22:11

, had that been sydney on

22:13

the other side of that giant metal door

22:15

, might she have said well

22:17

, you've got on , which I thought was what was gonna

22:20

gonna happen . I thought there was gonna be somebody

22:22

, some wise , mentor-ish

22:24

kind of moment there , but

22:26

he had to fit . He , I

22:28

mean , if I'm him , I'm like , don't cut me

22:30

out , this motherfucker , just leave me here . Just

22:33

leave me here in this motherfucker freezer

22:35

, because out there is

22:37

where she is and she might

22:39

kill my ass on sight . I'm safer

22:41

in this fucking freezer because

22:44

he really fucked up , but it's , it's they

22:47

would . They did not let him off the

22:49

hook and I that may be the choice

22:52

in the entire series so far

22:54

I respect most

22:56

. It was interesting to end on it . I

22:58

was like I motherfucking respect that . They

23:00

were like no , no , no , no , no , no , you , you

23:03

, you have to be held to fucking

23:05

account for how you are living

23:07

. And they would

23:09

not let him off the hook . I just

23:11

really , I , I really appreciated

23:13

that . I thought not every

23:16

show has the stomach to

23:19

do that . That was like

23:22

you know , yeah , as

23:24

, as we've decided with , there's not

23:26

some , there's not . It doesn't take balls , it takes vagina

23:28

, but it takes a lot of

23:30

vagina takes it .

23:31

Takes a lot of do that , takes a lot of

23:33

whatever insides you think show

23:35

uh fortitude . Yes , absolutely

23:37

. I think also to go along

23:40

with that point , that some

23:42

criticism of the bear that I've seen

23:44

is that sometimes things

23:47

work out too well . So

23:50

to also jump around a lot in

23:54

the episode four . It's in season

23:56

two , the Richie episode , one

23:58

of the best somehow they do all

24:00

the shit that ordinarily I should fucking

24:02

hate , and they put it off to

24:04

such a high degree that I fucking love

24:06

it , I love everything about it

24:09

Every once in a while . there are these

24:11

moments where it's like does that seem reasonable ? Is

24:14

it reasonable that that is the moment when Claire

24:16

would decide to go back into the kitchen

24:18

to find Carmi and she just happens

24:20

to stumble upon him giving the speech ? No

24:23

, it's not realistic , but also it's a tv show like it

24:25

is it is a contrived right , right

24:27

, right , and it is done well enough that

24:29

I am fine with it . I feel fine

24:31

with it . I think that part

24:33

of what you're talking about , with him being stuck in the walk-in

24:35

into giving that speech , and

24:38

how it parallels

24:40

the last episode of season one uh

24:42

, the second to last episode

24:45

, season one . Carmy loses the shit

24:47

, screams at everybody , knocks the donut

24:49

out of marcus's hand because the order system

24:51

is wrong , takes everything out on

24:53

everybody else in

24:55

the next episode , manages

24:57

to apologize to marcus and reach out

24:59

to sydney and apologize to her and try to

25:01

make things right , and then at

25:04

the end of that episode we get this

25:06

. I

25:08

don't have my phone next to me but , as Bishop

25:10

called it , the Dave's ex-Mikey-na

25:13

. Dave's ex-Mikey-na

25:15

? God damn it . I saw it

25:17

and I loved it and it was so good .

25:20

That's pretty good . It's really good .

25:23

Yeah , that Carmen gets rescued , because

25:25

Mikey and his drug-addled

25:28

state had been hiding wads

25:31

of cash in the cans

25:33

of tomatoes , because

25:35

why wouldn't that be the thing that happens

25:37

? So my point

25:39

overall with this is that Carmy

25:42

showed enough growth in season

25:44

one where he was trying to own his mistakes

25:46

. He was trying to tell sid that

25:48

his behavior wasn't acceptable , that the way he treated

25:50

her wasn't okay . He's trying to move into this

25:53

leadership role . That things

25:55

kind of worked out , and in

25:57

season two he is building on all that . He's

25:59

becoming a better leader and a better person and everything

26:01

else . But he is still mistreating himself

26:04

so poorly that it spills out and

26:06

gets on to claire that

26:09

, uh , what did you say about ? Um , you

26:11

need to make sure that you don't . Yeah , if you

26:13

don't yeah , if you don't , if you don't

26:15

heal where you were cut , you'll bleed on people

26:17

who didn't cut you right so I I

26:20

don't think that it's supposed to be a direct one-to-one comparison

26:23

, but I think that there is something about his

26:25

growth allowed good things to happen

26:27

and his refusal to grow

26:29

past this idea that he

26:31

is undeserving of love

26:34

or joy or happiness is what

26:36

is holding him back in season two . Because nobody's

26:39

being mean to you except you , Carmi . Nobody's fucking

26:41

this up except for you . Everybody else is on your side

26:43

and trying to help you out and you are fucking

26:45

it up well , yes

26:47

, I love what you

26:50

just brought up there , that that we

26:52

have .

26:53

Okay , there are a lot of things I don't like anymore

26:56

about , uh , tony

26:58

robbins but I'm watching coach's face because

27:00

I know he's like and we just hit three

27:02

hours , um , but

27:06

no , but . But one thing that I did

27:08

get from him and I've been doing

27:10

, looking back , I've been doing like self-help , personal

27:12

improvement shit for decades now . Right

27:14

, so I see , I , I see , and one of the

27:16

things that he was really that I thought was brilliant

27:18

that he did was he said that we people think

27:20

, um , in term , in terms

27:22

of their mood and into their station in life and achievements

27:25

. They think in terms of their mood and into their station in life and achievement . They think in terms

27:27

of a thermometer right , like that you want or whatever . But he

27:29

said but people are actually thermostats

27:31

. So if you

27:34

believe you're at , you know you should live

27:36

at 70 and

27:38

you heat shit up to 80 , you will

27:40

find a way to cool the motherfucker off back

27:42

to 70 , where you belong . That's

27:45

my , my , obviously , my language and

27:48

I always thought that was a really fascinating idea

27:50

and I feel like I've seen it in the world where

27:52

I'm like shit was going too good . Huh , you , you

27:54

had to do , you had . Those is too

27:56

much , and this show is

27:58

filled with people having

28:01

to contend with their

28:03

thermostats . Yes , that's

28:06

probably my favorite thing about the show

28:08

is that everyone and

28:10

they use the Coach K book , which obviously

28:13

. I've watched Coach K's masterclass

28:15

. I've watched a bunch of documentaries about him and

28:17

how he built the Duke basketball program

28:20

, which I would come to as a surprise

28:22

to no one who's been around here . But

28:24

his whole thing about courage

28:27

and confidence like that is the

28:29

show , like

28:31

that . To me , every step of

28:33

this show is like will you

28:35

step out ? It's

28:37

safer here . You've been hurt before

28:40

, you've been whatever . You've

28:42

failed . If you're Sid , like you know

28:44

. But will you do it again

28:47

? Yes and um

28:49

, I just yeah . I found with karm

28:52

the answer was

28:54

yes in every

28:56

way . But taking care of himself

28:59

. Sugar told him off rip , you

29:01

can't take , because what he said in the freezer

29:04

was you know what ? I

29:07

was off being human and

29:10

and experiencing human emotions

29:12

and creating a healthy human relationship

29:14

, and that fucked up the restaurant

29:16

. So you know what ? I'll just won't be human

29:18

, yep , and I'll just be

29:21

chef , yep , yeah , and I think

29:23

it , think it was good that the show

29:25

was like . No , that's not the fucking answer

29:27

either , bro .

29:28

Yes , and just

29:30

to make sure I agree with everything you said

29:32

, just to make very clear , I

29:34

think that what you were talking about is

29:37

much more similar to what Molly

29:39

Ringwald's character at the beginning of season

29:42

one , episode three , is talking about , when she says

29:44

I know that I played a role in

29:47

his abuse , in my abuse , like I not

29:49

this is not car me

29:52

no , no , no , this is not like you don't feel

29:54

like you deserve to be treated well and

29:56

that's why you're being mistreated . No , no

29:58

, no . This is saying , like your

30:00

frame of mind and how you

30:02

behave and how you expect other people

30:05

to treat you contributes to

30:07

how your life is . So if carmy is

30:09

saying , I am not worthy of joy , like

30:11

, what I need to do is get this star

30:13

and be a kick-ass chef and that's it

30:15

. That's the only role he's going to see for himself

30:18

and he's not going to be able to expand that so

30:20

that he can be a good partner to claire

30:22

and be a good boyfriend and

30:24

experience that joy Like this is

30:27

a limitation he is putting on him . This is not

30:29

anything deserved this is . He

30:31

is putting a straight jacket on himself and then can't

30:33

figure out why he can't get out of the room .

30:34

Like you're doing it , you did it , yeah

30:36

, yeah , yeah , yeah , he , he's got

30:39

the key to his own cell , all that stuff , yeah , the

30:41

straight jacket thing , but , but , but so

30:44

all right , so that

30:46

that that was the big picture of it all , but

30:48

I I loved that

30:52

every character faced that

30:54

essential choice that I did take

30:56

out of it and maybe that could

30:58

hit me because of how I watched it , but

31:01

whether it was Ebro , whether it was Tina

31:04

, like I texted in real time yeah

31:06

. When Sid asked

31:08

Tina to be sued , I

31:11

was like , oh my God , like

31:13

great writing . Because

31:15

when Tina turned up the

31:17

fire in season one , I was

31:20

like I don't know if this is

31:22

going on .

31:23

Yeah , I was like I think Tina's got to get cut from a team going

31:25

on . I was like so many people like from the team .

31:26

Yeah , I was like immediately

31:29

like she does not finish

31:31

this shift . So I was like , oh no

31:33

, tina , no . And to see

31:35

, because that didn't happen , what

31:37

eventually happened . I mean , in

31:40

season two , there are a number of moments

31:42

where I was like Tina

31:44

is the voice of

31:46

fucking reason right now , in

31:49

this craziness , I

31:53

was like how the fuck did

31:55

that happen ? Like when Sid and

31:57

Carmi are arguing and like , frankly

32:01

, losing their shit in front of the team

32:03

, she's the one

32:05

who's like , like

32:09

, look at this shit . So I

32:11

yeah , I thought that was um ebro

32:14

. I thought but and I

32:16

am sure because this is daphne's

32:19

favorite character , I will shout it out daphne did come

32:21

over to watch the flashback

32:25

episode . She didn't tell me why

32:27

she went to see a certain episode , oh

32:29

, but she was like , oh , whatever . So when I told

32:31

, her . I kept telling her where I was , and

32:33

then she came over during

32:36

four and then we watched five together

32:38

and then I guess six is the

32:40

flashback episode .

32:42

So she had watched the whole series , coach , without you .

32:44

Oh no no , she's seen it . She went to re-watch .

32:47

Yeah , how come you didn't watch it with her the first

32:49

time around , out of curiosity ?

32:50

Oh , I'm a bad husband .

32:52

I thought we had established that . I knew that

32:54

. I thought that was a given .

32:57

Yeah , I was probably out here watching philosophy videos

32:59

or some other nonsense , but anyway , I

33:14

wouldn't know it . But but yeah , so , so , yeah , so , richie of everybody

33:16

. I found myself most happy for him because

33:20

it struck me this morning , because I was thinking

33:22

about it this morning . I'm walking a dog , I'm like processing

33:24

, wow , oh yeah , I can't forget that happening . And

33:27

I was like it's kind of wild

33:29

that a show set

33:31

in Chicago is

33:34

about the audacity of hope . Oh

33:39

Okay , I don't think there's any place

33:41

where that

33:44

audacity is

33:46

most on

33:48

display than

33:51

Richie going from fuck

33:55

this system and let's do it our way

33:57

and delicate ecosystem I

34:07

mean . What he was really saying was I am delicate and I don't know

34:09

that I can survive in a different ecosystem . I know I can survive in this ecosystem

34:11

I have . It hasn't been fun , but I have survived I

34:14

have status .

34:15

I don't know if I have status in this right , I

34:17

can go out on the street I can talk to them .

34:19

But then sid did that and

34:21

then somebody called police on those guys . I I'm

34:24

not saying it was definitely richie , but I'm not saying

34:26

it wasn't that , but I mean , you know

34:29

, I mean so he , he had

34:31

to , like , really step out . And I think

34:34

when he showed up in that suit

34:36

for me

34:38

the beauty of it was even within

34:40

the context of the show that

34:43

was such a declaration , because

34:46

he could have come in with a new attitude in his old

34:48

t-shirt . But

34:50

he said no , no , no , no , no . I want you to be able to see

34:53

from a motherfucking distance that

34:55

this is a new Richie . And I was

34:57

like whoa , like that took a

35:00

lot of heart and a step

35:02

out there . And then for him to be the one

35:04

who made the kitchen rock

35:07

after he was from

35:09

the first episode , I was like , motherfucker

35:12

, will you move ? And

35:15

then instead it's played , played

35:17

through me , and this guy's the one who makes

35:19

it all work . I was like , are you fucking

35:22

kidding ? yeah , I didn't see that and

35:24

I'll just add so you guys did this to yourselves

35:26

, because you shoved all this shit in my brain

35:28

in 24 hours no , no , this is great but

35:31

I

35:33

also in

35:35

the total , you know , total restauranting

35:38

, total

35:40

chefdom . We

35:43

needed him in that

35:45

moment , Like he's

35:47

the guy who , however

35:50

it is he going to take some napkins

35:52

and some epoxy . And

35:54

that moment didn't call for saying

35:58

everything the exact , perfect way it's supposed

36:00

to be said . That moment called for keeping your head way it's supposed to be said

36:02

. That moment called for keeping your head and

36:05

whatever comes out of this machine , figure

36:07

out how to make it happen and we'll deal with

36:09

the rest tomorrow . And that's a specific

36:12

kind of personality , His ability

36:14

, in the midst of that . He's not Sid

36:17

. Sid would have started

36:19

getting more testy . Carmi

36:22

would have started getting more testy . I thought it was fascinating

36:25

that they had Richie

36:27

saying good job , this , that , yeah

36:29

, we did this , blah , blah , blah . He was part

36:31

cheerleader . I was like and

36:33

that's what they needed all

36:35

along . Even Carm recognized

36:38

it earlier when he was like I

36:40

don't want to change . I forget what change

36:42

Sidney wanted to make , but he was like you notice how

36:45

it's chill .

36:48

I want to hold on to this for as long as possible .

36:50

I want to hold on for as long as possible . Exactly .

36:51

We're a little bit chill for the first time

36:54

, yeah .

36:54

And I got it . But in a way he

36:57

was like there's still problems , but I want

36:59

it to be calm on the

37:01

surface , which has a value . I'm

37:03

not arguing that it doesn't , but

37:05

Richie's version incorporates

37:09

the chaos and gives you calm . Yes

37:11

, it's not ignore the chaos and

37:13

gives you calm . It's not ignore the chaos , it's

37:16

I got this shit . Everybody . Calm the fuck down

37:19

, you go fire up this , you

37:21

do that , blah , blah , blah , whatever . And

37:24

I thought it was brilliant . He was the

37:27

only member of the team who could do that . That's the thing . Coach Tina couldn't

37:29

do what he did . Carmi couldn't do what he did . The team who could ?

37:31

do that . That's the thing . Coach Tina couldn't do what he did .

37:32

That's the thing , Carmi couldn't do what he did .

37:34

Nobody else could do it he had

37:36

an anxiety

37:39

reaction to leaving

37:42

the ecosystem that he knew he had status in

37:44

without realizing he

37:46

was uniquely suited was

37:54

uniquely suited His personal skill sets were uniquely suited

37:56

to not just exist in the other ecosystem but to thrive and do things

37:58

that other people can't do . There's this there's a beat that I love

38:00

. We'll talk about it when we get to this episode

38:02

. But there's this moment where

38:05

, okay , so in the first episode I

38:07

think it's the , I think it's the first episode Karmie's

38:09

yelling . He's trying to get everybody guys , guys

38:11

, I need hands . It might have been hands

38:13

, it might have been a second episode , but it was

38:15

Richie holding court and talking

38:17

One sec , cousin , one sec , and he wanted to finish his story

38:20

and the entire group is around Richie , right

38:22

. And

38:26

then later on and , coach , you make a great point about Tina . Later on , there's this moment

38:28

where everyone's working and

38:31

Richie defaults to

38:33

Tina . Everyone else is busy . That crew

38:36

that he used to have is gone . His last

38:38

hope is Tina and

38:40

she's like you need to come outside right now . And

38:43

then she's the one that's like I have something good

38:45

, my skills have gone up 300%

38:48

in two months . Yeah , yeah , yeah

38:50

, up 300 in two months . Like , and you know when they say , sometimes

38:52

they say um , uh

38:55

, this is not the right way

38:57

to say it , but they say , oh , you can't teach an old dog new tricks

38:59

, meaning if you've been in a system system long

39:01

enough , it's hard to see outside of

39:03

that system but , to tina's credit , she's been

39:05

in the system longer than anybody , I think . Right

39:07

, boss , like she's been in it for she was saying

39:09

to sydney I've been doing , I've been in the kitchen since before

39:11

you were born . To Sidney yeah , so so

39:14

for her to recognize that , I thought , showed

39:16

so much I was really impressed

39:18

with her as a person and they intentionally

39:21

set it up like , oh , she turns up the fire

39:23

, she's obnoxious , you know , she

39:25

, she's willfully , uh , obstructionist

39:28

in the kitchen when Siddney is , uh

39:30

, trying to try to absorb her new role . Um

39:33

, and she goes from that to like actually , like

39:35

holy shit , and the and we'll

39:37

talk about how that happened . I think

39:39

it was the moment where she was

39:42

behind and she burned the mashed potatoes and

39:44

and then sid was like she turns

39:46

around , and sid had everything prepared and she's

39:49

like I don't have time to fuck around . That's

39:52

an interesting beat , but it was a hard

39:54

note , a particularly hard note between the two

39:56

of them , but somehow worked for Tina . And

39:59

then when she brought the mashed potatoes to

40:02

Sid to taste , she's like get it over with , I know

40:04

it's whatever . And all of a sudden , the

40:06

validation of saying like no , you can

40:08

make something good . Like you can make something good , like you

40:10

can do it this other way . Same

40:12

as Richie . I'm not sure I can exist

40:14

outside of the ecosystem I'm comfortable in . And

40:17

then she finds out she can , which is

40:20

the thing that enables her to pull him outside

40:22

and be like no , like

40:24

no . And that's the moment

40:26

where he goes . Where are you going to fuck it ? I'm going to quit . Where are you

40:28

going to go , richie , like , like that is so . Where he goes ? Where

40:30

are you gonna fuck it ? I'm gonna quit

40:33

. Where are you gonna go , richie ? Like , like that is so

40:35

.

40:35

I'm like oh , my god , right um , that was uh that , that , that , that

40:37

. That was uh an officer

40:39

and a richie because it

40:42

was . I got no way to

40:45

go like you know like it was

40:47

like , but it was clear

40:49

you're're divorced , getting

40:52

divorced . Where else are you

40:54

going to go to work ? Nice , resume , what

40:57

are you talking about ? And

40:59

he knew it . He knew

41:01

. She didn't have to say it twice

41:04

and she didn't have to explain

41:06

what she meant by that . It

41:08

wasn't an informational question

41:10

, it was . You got nowhere

41:12

to go . Homie , get yourself together

41:14

. You're going to have to do

41:16

this Quick , not quickly

41:19

, so

41:22

I'm not going to lie . I'll share . Knock it

41:24

off , all right . So

41:26

I have

41:29

a tattoo that I will describe

41:31

in a second on the inside of my

41:33

bicep , and I think I've mentioned

41:35

this audio before , but I

41:37

had an opportunity to direct

41:39

a movie based on a script I written . I directed

41:42

in 2018 . It's called Dinner

41:44

for Two . The

41:47

lead actor

41:50

, the woman , needs

41:53

to sing a song

41:55

, and it's a classic R&B

41:58

song and blah

42:00

, blah , blah , and that really wasn't her type

42:03

of singing . She

42:06

sings Americana , so she was very nervous and , frankly , I was a little

42:08

nervous that we had to pull off this song . I was a little nervous

42:10

that we had to pull off this song . Like you , don't sing

42:12

Shirley Murdoch's as we Lay half-assed

42:15

, unless you want all of Black

42:17

Twitter to end you .

42:20

Just end you Speaking from experience yeah , I've made

42:23

that mistake . Do not get

42:25

on the wrong side of Black Twitter folks .

42:29

But so we're getting ready and we're in the studio

42:32

and that's a whole amazing experience , I'll tell . I can

42:34

tell folks about some other time and

42:36

she's about to go in . Her

42:38

name is Chaley Rose and I said , chaley

42:41

, you know she comes over . I'm like , listen , when

42:44

I was and I'll tell you the story real quick is that

42:46

when I was 14 , I was when I was

42:48

a teenager , rather , I was working for Prep

42:50

. For Prep , we had to do this in the training . We

42:52

had to do this ropes course that we went across

42:55

about 10 feet over a pool . You

42:57

had to go through these obstacles , right , and

43:00

after you got to the end , you

43:02

call across this net and you jump . You

43:04

have to grab this rope and ring the bell . And

43:08

of like the 25 of us or

43:10

so who started , started the course

43:12

, like five of us finished and

43:14

rang the bell . Wow , who made it through all obstacles

43:17

and rang the bell ? So I was one of the five

43:19

, like one of those people . So we get back

43:21

down , they take us back to where we were camp

43:23

and and then they um had

43:26

the same course , but laid out

43:28

on the ground and

43:30

, of course , on the ground it

43:33

looked easy as shit . But

43:35

what I noticed was

43:37

the net and the bell were

43:40

far enough apart that

43:42

there was no way to hold

43:44

the net and ring the bell

43:46

. If you were going to ring the bell

43:49

at some point you had to jump . And

43:52

that moment

43:54

, when you're between the net and

43:56

the bell , that's

43:59

scary as shit . I

44:01

said you got nothing now

44:04

. You ain't got net and you ain't got

44:06

bell . I said , but

44:08

that's where all the magic happens

44:10

. Chaley

44:21

Rose , I want you to go in that booth and I want

44:23

you to sing this song from between the net and the bell . And

44:26

she did . I was very proud , I think

44:28

she we had some conversations let me know that she'd

44:31

gotten more out of herself working

44:33

with me on that film than she thought she had to give

44:35

, which was really cool . Oh , shit . And my

44:38

coach ego . But

44:40

then she texted me and she was like between

44:42

the net and the bell . I

44:44

really liked that . And

44:48

she said she might get a tattoo . I said , well , I've

44:50

been thinking about getting another . At that point , I get a tattoo . I said , well , I've been thinking about getting another . At that point I had one

44:52

tattoo . I said I'm thinking about getting another tattoo

44:54

myself . So

44:57

you know , when we see each other on

44:59

Monday , we see how serious you are . So she

45:01

writes back I'm serious . Exclamation point Cut

45:04

to Monday , which was our last day of shooting . We

45:06

wrapped and we went together to a local

45:09

Atlanta tattoo parlor . We rapped and we went together to a local Atlanta tattoo

45:11

parlor and she has Between

45:14

the Net and the Bell on the front of her bicep

45:16

here on her arm and I have it on the inside

45:18

of my biceps . We'll always

45:21

have that Between the Net and the Bell

45:23

. And I tell the whole

45:25

story because

45:27

I feel like this show

45:29

comes to us from between the

45:31

net and the bell and all the characters'

45:34

greatest moments come

45:37

from between the net and the bell , from

45:42

when they're able to jump anyway , even though it's scary

45:44

, even that's the worst part , even though if

45:46

you jump and miss , you will

45:48

have nothing Like

45:53

. That's the price . It's not a video game where you just reset back on the net and see if you

45:55

can make the jump this time . But

45:57

it doesn't matter , you still have . If

45:59

you want to live that life , if you want

46:01

to be where richie ended up ever

46:03

in your life , you have to jump , and that's

46:05

just how it works so

46:08

, number one , I love that story , love everything

46:10

about it .

46:11

I love also that you phrased it as so

46:15

many characters on the show living

46:17

between the net and the bell . Uh

46:19

, very specifically , because there

46:22

is a character that did not make it like

46:25

the big , big part of the show is

46:27

somebody sort

46:30

of trying for the bell , and mikey isn't

46:32

around anymore . Mikey didn't make it like

46:34

there is so much . I will

46:36

get into this when we are back on the

46:39

recaps and the deep dives , because there's a

46:41

very specific scene that I want to talk about

46:43

this more . But the

46:46

bear like , for all

46:48

of its amazing qualities , this is

46:51

one of the few

46:53

shows . This is one of the few shows . This is one of

46:55

the few anythings I've ever seen that

46:57

has dealt with what

47:01

it feels like to have

47:03

a loved one who has

47:05

mental health issues and addiction

47:07

issues and who dies by

47:09

suicide and you love them afterwards

47:12

anyway . There are a few shows

47:14

now that are like unshameless

47:16

monica and frank gallagher are fucking terrible

47:18

parents and their kids hate them and

47:21

brock meyer brock meyer hates his parents

47:23

. And there are a few other shows where it's like

47:25

here are terrible parents , here

47:27

are terrible loved ones and you

47:29

get to fucking hate them and there aren't shows

47:32

that deal with the aftermath

47:34

of somebody leaving you in

47:36

this way or feeling like somebody left you in this

47:38

way . So

47:41

the fact that all of this is coming out

47:43

of their shared grief over

47:45

having a person that they cared

47:47

about so much , who Like

47:50

believe me , I

47:54

understand people who have contemplated suicide or people who have died by

47:56

suicide . I'm not trying to be

47:58

Like so

48:00

much sympathy , but for the loved ones

48:03

, it is Well , you left us and

48:05

so it's dealing with Like Everything

48:08

that Tina does , everything that Richie does . A

48:10

lot of the shit that Carmi does is based

48:14

in that idea of we

48:17

need to get better because

48:19

the not

48:22

doing so leads to , like

48:24

literal life and death circumstances

48:27

.

48:27

Wow Boss

48:30

how

48:43

do you know anything about suicide ? Oh , I don't

48:45

know .

48:45

Nothing personal . What was it ? Wow , catching up right

48:47

now I am so sorry about everything

48:50

I'm about to say . Um , so

48:53

I I have two dead

48:55

fathers , a dad and a stepdad . My

48:57

uh father died by

48:59

suicide when I was 12 , and

49:02

then my stepdad died from a

49:04

heroin overdose when I was 17 .

49:06

So so

49:09

, like I said nothing

49:11

, personal and I'm

49:13

going to toss this in for those catching up Boss

49:18

has been , and it's true

49:21

for the show , as you may have gathered otherwise

49:23

from us , boss

49:25

has been so generous , seriously

49:27

so generous with her experience

49:29

, because if you don't know , if you don't know , you

49:32

don't know , and it it has

49:34

come up in ways that have been instructive

49:36

about the show conversations , but actually it's

49:39

, it's impacted how I've looked

49:41

at some things in terms of family and

49:43

, um , forgiveness , and yeah

49:46

, just yeah , it's , it's been

49:48

of great value . So , anyway , anyway , I just wanted to call

49:50

that out because , yeah , it's

49:52

very generous .

49:53

One thing I always say to my boss . She's

49:56

very generous .

49:58

I mean not with my time or money or feelings but

50:00

other than that , yes , 100% .

50:02

I was thinking that

50:06

, first of all , I realized I made

50:08

a terrible joke and for people who are trying to Google

50:11

what I did to piss off Black twitter , that was

50:13

just a joke . I've , never , I've never , I'm

50:16

a smart enough man . I've never

50:18

pissed off black twitter , but um , uh , I

50:20

, uh , I was thinking that , coach

50:22

, listening to your story , I

50:25

, I , uh I don't know if you have a bigger cheerleader

50:28

than me , maybe boss these days because

50:30

you're her thrall but

50:32

um , I , uh

50:34

, I uh always say

50:37

to anyone listening to this podcast I

50:39

think coach is like the most amazing coach

50:41

on the planet . Um , that goes

50:43

for his directing and the film space . Uh

50:46

, he's just amazing . But I , uh , listening

50:48

to you , I thought you

50:55

amazing . But I , at listening to you , I thought you know god , what a manipulative motherfucker

50:57

. Because you have the right voice . You're like , hey , let me , let me tell you a little

50:59

story . I'm like god damn it , I know

51:02

. Whatever's at the end of the story means I'm

51:04

gonna do it now skip

51:06

the story all

51:08

right , everybody , bring it in . I'm gonna'm

51:10

going to tell you a little story about something happened to me when

51:12

I was growing up in Flatbush . Like shit , god

51:14

damn it . Okay , yes , I will

51:16

saw off my finger . I didn't think I would ever do

51:19

that , but I know that the end of the story means

51:22

it's

51:24

a beautiful story , coach , I really loved it . And

51:27

yes , you guys make amazing points

51:29

. And

51:39

, boss , your lived experiences are profound and painful . No , it is . It's hard to hear , honestly

51:41

, as someone who pretends to care about

51:43

you , boss , it

51:45

is very difficult to . No

51:47

, no , it really is , like all the stuff over

51:50

the years when you've been very open

51:52

about it and honest , and this

51:56

is where growth comes from , this is where understanding

51:59

comes from . It's

52:03

really you can bury it and not share it , but throughout all of our recordings , you've

52:05

been , you know , just

52:08

really vulnerable

52:10

and raw about it . You

52:13

know just really , uh , vulnerable and raw about it . And and , and you , you haven't patted yourself

52:16

on the back the way coach does every single time he does something

52:18

everybody's

52:20

getting real sick of it , yeah everyone's real

52:22

sick of coach uh , coach , where'd you

52:24

go ? to college , by the way oh

52:26

, for christ's sake and what kind of car do

52:28

you drive ?

52:30

Oh , you're such a jerk . Okay , coach

52:32

. Yeah

52:35

, I went to Yale , yeah .

52:36

Oh , yale , is that the one in New Haven ?

52:38

I do drive . It is in fact

52:40

that one , and

52:43

I do drive a Tesla .

52:45

When you got your Tesla , did you kiss

52:48

Elon directly on the lips , or

52:50

was it some sort of like just a little

52:53

dance thing ?

52:53

I don't know , I don't know if

52:56

you'll get full reception on

52:58

the Cape , but I'm

53:01

going to answer you now , but

53:08

, but , but , but , no , but I

53:10

do want to . That piece around

53:12

the um , the

53:15

sharing , right , um

53:17

, as you were describing it

53:19

, I was thinking that what

53:22

the shows we've

53:25

now look , that we're

53:27

looking at , I guess , with the bear , but that we've chosen

53:29

to look at , I

53:32

think all

53:34

have required a

53:36

level of vulnerability from

53:39

the characters in the context

53:42

of the story . That

53:45

even I mean stories . Right , you got to run people up trees

53:47

and all the stuff we've talked about . But even in

53:49

the context of like that , especially

53:52

seem to demand it , especially

53:55

seem to say what

53:57

got you here , won't get you

53:59

there . Now , what the fuck you gonna do

54:01

? Well , son , it's

54:04

not just as simple as just become a barbarian

54:06

, is it ? Well

54:09

, coach , yeah , you can't just come in and

54:11

oakley , doakley your way through every goddamn

54:13

thing , can you ? And

54:15

, and it just and in each

54:17

in their own way , they're kind of un-fucking-relenting

54:20

and they're saying

54:23

no , you're going to have to

54:25

, you're gonna have to do

54:27

the thing you're going to have to

54:29

. Jamie , learn

54:31

that there's

54:35

11 of us out there and

54:37

your greatest greatness will be be

54:39

when you recognize . Good , he

54:41

ted told him that the

54:44

thing is . Yes , it was him who finally

54:46

saw . But early on

54:48

, when he was , when ted was trying to win him over

54:51

, he said you're me , but I think

54:53

you're gonna you might be the best player

54:55

I've ever coached yeah , I've ever coached

54:57

right . So he , it's , it's , it's all

54:59

there . So , anyway , I , I , I

55:02

really respect that . And I want to say this about

55:04

um , who

55:08

I was somewhat

55:11

dismissive of . I

55:14

have like in retrospect and

55:16

I kind of took as like oh

55:20

, I get it , mikey was super

55:22

magnetic , had a bunch of talent

55:24

, party boy snorted

55:27

300K . Now

55:29

everybody else has to fucking deal

55:32

with . Okay , get it like

55:34

I'm not , I'm not mad at him , but

55:36

okay , I get it , I get I get what

55:39

this is . And he left this mess . He just

55:41

left a fucking mess . And what

55:45

I came to truly respect about

55:47

him it's

55:49

sad , it's a sad assessment , but

55:51

what I came to truly respect about him was

55:53

, it seemed to me , from

55:56

where we are now , my take is that

55:59

part of his calculus was

56:02

I have fucked up

56:04

my life , I

56:07

have this thing's

56:09

fucked up and it's you know

56:11

, it's a fool bar right Fucked up beyond all

56:13

recognition . However

56:16

. However , I

56:20

can be part of making sure

56:22

somebody else's life

56:24

is not fucked up and

56:28

so he sacrifices his life . I

56:31

watched , I told you to , I don't know if I've said it

56:33

on recording . I've recently , was just

56:35

moved to . So I did watch the Matrix . And if

56:37

folks are wondering why I haven't seen a number

56:39

of series , it's because I might be sitting around

56:41

on a random Saturday and go , I need to watch

56:43

the Matrix again and that's two hours

56:46

. No

56:49

, no real reason , just I guess I needed

56:51

that . But I'll say that there's something

56:53

about morpheus in the matrix

56:55

deciding I will get

56:59

neo out , I will jump

57:01

into , probably

57:05

death . Get neo

57:07

out . And you know , for

57:10

those who you know , have read the

57:12

bible , even just thinking of it as literature , thereiment

57:14

or disembodiment

57:16

of hopelessness , like

57:49

he may have been the most hopeful of the

57:52

bunch , he , as everybody

57:54

else , was like well , this is our lot in life , things

57:56

are gonna be this way . He was like maybe

57:59

not , maybe not

58:01

. I have , I have an idea .

58:04

Um , yeah

58:06

, yeah , uh

58:08

, yeah , I , I'm gonna , always I'm

58:10

, I'm . I've had a hard time discerning

58:14

my understanding of mikey's

58:16

plan , and

58:19

maybe it's just me , maybe I'm missing something

58:21

about it , but I'm like okay , so you borrow the money

58:23

and then you buy

58:26

a canning machine , presumably

58:28

, presumably , and then you re-can

58:31

San

58:33

Marzano tomatoes with saran-wrapped

58:37

stacks of money

58:40

. That's accruing interest . You

58:43

don't pay your bills , and

58:45

then you offer yourself to

58:47

give that debt to your brother , who

58:51

then will find the money

58:53

and owe that

58:55

money .

58:58

Well , I think the thinking is

59:00

you'll never

59:03

save up nor

59:06

will I $300,000

59:08

in cash , and no one's going to lend you

59:11

$300,000 in cash and no one's going to lend you $300,000

59:14

in cash .

59:16

Well , that's , one of the knocks

59:20

on the show . It's like a James Beard Award winner can

59:23

get that type of money

59:25

. Investors will . If

59:27

you are the best chef in the country , you

59:30

have the investment opportunity .

59:33

Well , I don't know that world , so I didn't

59:35

think of it . It would be like being an all-star in the

59:37

NFL . I

59:40

get that and I'm sure that's true . There's

59:46

a million things I know nothing

59:48

about , and this is pretty close . Okay , I

59:52

mean it makes sense to me . I'll

59:54

say , though , in the context of

59:56

the show , so I'll put it that way , that

59:59

my

1:00:05

sense of it is Carm

1:00:08

went off , did his things

1:00:10

, but if they

1:00:12

were going to turn this place into

1:00:16

the dream , at

1:00:18

least from mikey's vantage point , this

1:00:20

is how I can help . Like

1:00:22

you know what I mean , this is how I can help

1:00:24

it happen , it it may

1:00:26

be , and I actually , as you say it , I

1:00:29

guess it makes sense , right , like if you went around

1:00:31

and said you know , know , I was food and wine .

1:00:33

I was hoping one of you guys would be like no , no , oh

1:00:36

, because you missed this thing

1:00:38

Obviously . Blah , blah , blah

1:00:40

.

1:00:40

I mean I watched it at

1:00:42

the rate we discussed , so maybe I did miss

1:00:44

some stuff . I just took it as he

1:00:46

was like kid

1:00:48

.

1:00:52

I can't do much for you , but I could do this . Did you have the sense that his plan

1:00:54

included Carmi

1:00:57

from the start ? Because for me . I thought like

1:01:00

his plan was like I'll stash

1:01:02

away money and then shit got

1:01:04

dark and then he's like fuck it , at least

1:01:06

the least thing I can do is leave it for my brother

1:01:08

. I can do some good on the way .

1:01:11

Oh , maybe you're right then . Yeah

1:01:15

, I don't know . I would need to . You know

1:01:17

like I've watched every episode of Ted Lasso

1:01:19

.

1:01:20

Why don't you let ? Boss talk if you don't know . Coach , why

1:01:22

don't you let boss say one thing ? Can she get

1:01:24

a word in edgewise , or are you just going to just

1:01:26

fucking man spread all over this podcast

1:01:29

?

1:01:29

Well , yeah Well , you know , as the

1:01:31

representative of the patriarchy , I

1:01:33

think my work here is done .

1:01:36

I've said all that needs to be said Go ahead , boss , I'd like

1:01:38

to clarify number one it is mansplaining

1:01:40

. And number two you need to take me off mute

1:01:42

if you want me to say something there . Castle , this

1:01:46

is real rough .

1:01:47

That's funny that you pivot .

1:01:54

I'm trying to stick up for you for once in the 12 year run of this podcast and you

1:01:56

find a way to pretend that I've been shitty .

1:02:00

What a delight . This is a hostile workplace

1:02:02

environment . I know . I

1:02:05

think we should take it to the manager

1:02:07

, the person who runs this podcast . I think

1:02:09

they need to say something .

1:02:10

Who the fuck is in charge , the person who is actually who the fuck

1:02:12

is in charge . Who's named boss of

1:02:14

this podcast Shit ? Right , yeah , exactly

1:02:16

, let me know if you want

1:02:19

to slap yourself on the wrist over that . Yes

1:02:21

, I'm in charge of HR obviously .

1:02:24

No , actually . So I

1:02:26

think that there are a few different things happening , and

1:02:29

the most important of them

1:02:31

is that hindsight

1:02:33

will always tell you where you fucked up . So

1:02:36

even in this plot , like , it

1:02:38

makes perfect sense to me that Mikey was like

1:02:40

we're going to do this , we're going to do this , we're going to do this . And

1:02:42

then halfway through he was like oh no , fuck , we're

1:02:45

going to do this , this , this . So it isn't going to be a linear plot

1:02:47

from . Mikey had this idea that

1:02:49

Carmi was going to take over this restaurant and do

1:02:51

this . At the end , like he saw

1:02:53

all this . I don't think so . He I think

1:02:55

that he did have some ideas about franchising

1:02:57

. He did have some ideas about like . Also

1:03:01

, I don't know if anybody else has had

1:03:03

the joyful experience of working

1:03:05

for or being very closely involved

1:03:07

with the management of a

1:03:09

business as it is actively going under

1:03:11

. I was put

1:03:14

into the business manager

1:03:16

and I am doing scare quotes

1:03:18

on that business manager position

1:03:20

for a small medical clinic

1:03:23

that I worked for 12 or 14

1:03:25

years ago or something , right after

1:03:27

the 2008 economic

1:03:30

and housing collapse . We were like

1:03:33

it was called an ambulatory

1:03:35

service , not ambulance , but that means that

1:03:37

we were like treating people

1:03:39

with vitamins . This was for rich bitches

1:03:41

who wanted to reduce their anxiety

1:03:44

and depression with vitamin C . I actually

1:03:46

, you know , vitamins were great for me . It's fine . I'm

1:03:48

not trying to talk smack , I'm just saying we were

1:03:50

not primary care responsibility

1:03:52

when the entire fucking economy was going under

1:03:54

. So we then spent the next

1:03:56

four years spinning our wheels and like trying

1:03:58

to keep the place open and trying to figure out how to

1:04:00

hold off bill collectors and get more

1:04:03

patients , even though we didn't have the money to do

1:04:05

any of that shit . It's fucking bad

1:04:07

. It was not a great time . I fucking

1:04:09

hated my job . So

1:04:12

there's a part of me that understands . When mikey

1:04:14

was like we can't pay for napkins

1:04:16

, like what we're just gonna

1:04:19

have to own again , so we can't fucking pay for him , like

1:04:21

it is a I'm

1:04:24

gonna do this thing and then I'm gonna put out

1:04:26

that fire , and then I'm gonna put out that fire

1:04:28

and then I'm going to figure this shit out . So

1:04:30

like having some . You

1:04:32

know , five years ago , when

1:04:34

Carmi said we could put this place

1:04:36

together , you and I can run this place together . I

1:04:39

think that sometime after then , mikey

1:04:41

started thinking bigger , saying we're

1:04:43

going to franchise . I'm going to borrow this money

1:04:45

. It got dark . I

1:04:48

can't remember what exact part

1:04:50

it was exactly , but Ibram at some

1:04:52

point says because

1:04:55

Mikey was on drugs like

1:04:57

whatever . Whatever the question was like why did we do

1:04:59

it this way ? Well , mikey was on drugs . Like how

1:05:03

did this happen ? He was fucking stoned . So

1:05:07

this is again one of those things where

1:05:09

I don't think everything about the plot is 100%

1:05:11

realistic . I think that they were asking us

1:05:13

to buy in a little bit , and I'm willing to . Um

1:05:16

, I believe Mikey

1:05:18

felt like if

1:05:20

he left Carmi enough money , carmi

1:05:23

could save the restaurant in the way that he couldn't . I

1:05:25

think that Carmi even being , like food

1:05:27

and wines , best new chef of whatever year

1:05:30

it was , if

1:05:32

he had gone out with other business partners

1:05:34

and said we need 300,000 to start an upscale

1:05:37

restaurant in this gentrifying

1:05:40

neighborhood , I think a lot of

1:05:42

bankers would be like , yes , we're going to do that . If he shows up

1:05:44

and he's like we've got a shithole that

1:05:46

has a C rating and right

1:05:48

now we owe 300 and

1:05:51

mold and we owe 400

1:05:53

or 500 000 there

1:05:55

is not . He would need to give up

1:05:58

the restaurant . He would need to give up the beef

1:06:00

in order to start a new place . The only

1:06:02

way that he is taking the beef to

1:06:04

the bear is with the money that mikey

1:06:06

saved for him and as

1:06:08

just sort of a , a side note with that

1:06:11

. Yes , it was collecting interest and whatever else . I

1:06:14

believe that because cicero

1:06:16

said like I loved mikey

1:06:19

too , I I loved him . I

1:06:21

think mike mikey felt like cicero

1:06:23

was gonna cut car me some slack and

1:06:26

he was right about it , like they

1:06:28

had a great business plan . But when

1:06:30

they showed up to tell Cicero

1:06:32

in season two , episode one , that they were like

1:06:34

no , we're turning this into a fine dining

1:06:36

tasting menu establishment and

1:06:39

he's like what the fuck is that noise ? Can you turn off

1:06:41

the fucking beeping ? Like nobody

1:06:44

besides Cicero is going to be involved in this , but

1:06:46

they had Cicero involved in this .

1:06:50

Yeah , and in a in a , in a wild way

1:06:52

, they

1:06:54

actually Mikey got Cicero

1:06:57

a little bit pregnant , like

1:06:59

not really really , because he could have just been like

1:07:01

everybody , get the fuck out , I'm selling it right

1:07:03

. So that was an option . And

1:07:05

Carmi acknowledges

1:07:08

that that's an option , but

1:07:11

essentially he says but

1:07:13

you also love me , right , and

1:07:16

in your heart you

1:07:19

also have hope that we could pull this shit off

1:07:21

. Yeah , so let's

1:07:23

do this shit . And I I kind of like that

1:07:25

. He kind of like the way he laid out

1:07:27

. It was like no more angles , no

1:07:29

more . Because he even says I would

1:07:32

, I found the money and

1:07:34

I wasn't . I was not gonna tell you

1:07:36

about the motherfucker buddy , I'm just telling

1:07:38

you because I need more money . I was like that

1:07:41

probably got you the fucking money right

1:07:43

there . Because if you say

1:07:45

that to me , I'm like oh

1:07:48

, so we all the cards on the table

1:07:50

now , yeah , yeah , like

1:07:52

I was going to keep your motherfucking money

1:07:54

Trust and believe I was not going

1:07:56

to give you that cash to pay back this debt

1:07:58

period . However

1:08:01

, now I have a business proposition

1:08:04

. I don't know I got why . I trust

1:08:06

I , I get why . I mean you

1:08:08

could obviously make the argument . The sister would be like

1:08:10

get the fuck out of here , whatever . But

1:08:13

I got why . He was like all

1:08:15

right , yeah , let's try

1:08:17

it . And and I'll just toss this in

1:08:19

, I know this takes us to a different place quickly we

1:08:21

can come right back , we're giving

1:08:23

him the chocolate covered banana oh

1:08:25

my god I

1:08:29

I don't even know

1:08:31

the name of the emotion I felt . I

1:08:33

don't know the name of the emotion I felt

1:08:35

. I was like that was so

1:08:38

beautiful and kind of funny

1:08:40

and deeply human and a little

1:08:42

bit sad like when's the last time

1:08:44

in this entire show , who

1:08:47

gave cicero anything ? cicero's

1:08:52

, who you call when you need some shit ? We need this

1:08:54

, moved along . We need that , moved along . We need

1:08:56

fucking this money . We need that money . We need

1:08:58

the 300K that you're not ever going to see again

1:09:00

. We need another 500K because we already

1:09:02

spent your 300K but we didn't even tell you we found

1:09:05

your motherfucking 300K . All

1:09:07

anybody fucking ever

1:09:09

does is ask this

1:09:11

dude for shit , including at his house , where

1:09:14

you can drug some children , and he's

1:09:16

so starved for some fucking

1:09:18

peace that he doesn't think , oh , you almost

1:09:20

killed children . He thinks , oh , my god

1:09:22

, I got a minute of fucking peace I've talked

1:09:24

about this I've

1:09:26

talked about .

1:09:27

I've talked about . I'm not

1:09:30

sure who the comedian was , but I think it may be a now

1:09:32

disgraced comedian . I remember somebody

1:09:34

saying the best part of my

1:09:36

day is when I put my kids in the car

1:09:38

in their car seat , and then I walk

1:09:41

around the backside of the car to get to the truck .

1:09:42

You've told me this yes .

1:09:44

And it was like that's a vacation , that's

1:09:46

like a cruise , that's like going on a cruise , as

1:09:48

I have that silence from the

1:09:50

passenger side backseat

1:09:52

all the way around to my , until I open

1:09:55

my driver door . I was going

1:09:57

to say what is someone given , cicero , and I was going

1:09:59

to say that there was a silence . He

1:10:01

got silenced for , you know , unintentionally

1:10:03

, but you know , you're right , he doesn't sometimes

1:10:05

people in in where you

1:10:07

know , there's

1:10:10

a , there's a friend of ours , a coach

1:10:12

, and I have a friend who's very wealthy , um

1:10:15

, and it's just

1:10:17

he . He is so generous that he pays

1:10:19

when people go out and things like that , and

1:10:21

I will sometimes

1:10:23

just send him some shit , just

1:10:25

so he gets something

1:10:28

on it , and it could be just like a baseball cap I think he'd

1:10:30

like , or whatever , just so it's like

1:10:32

not always in one direction , you know what I mean . And

1:10:34

so with Cicero , it does feel like it's in one direction

1:10:37

. But more to your point , in

1:10:40

that moment when the xanax happened , carme

1:10:42

didn't lie to him and and

1:10:44

there's like this thing , there's

1:10:46

this there's this thing where people get like

1:10:48

this is how you , this is how you operate

1:10:50

, um , or like this is how

1:10:52

I understand our relationship

1:10:54

. For whatever

1:10:56

you know what , I feel close enough to you that I'm

1:10:58

going to just give you the straight dope . Karmie

1:11:00

seems to default to that with

1:11:03

Cicero , with Uncle Jimmy , and it's like

1:11:05

there's this I

1:11:08

don't know . It's really interesting , because he's left holding

1:11:10

the bag when Mikey's gone . Mikey

1:11:13

, sometimes I'm

1:11:15

so boss . Are you going to say something

1:11:18

? Go , you jump in .

1:11:19

Well , no , what I was actually going to say is that I

1:11:21

think , part of why their relationship

1:11:24

works so well in addition to the fact that

1:11:26

Carmi was like we found your money , I

1:11:29

did spend it . I wasn't going to give it back to you when

1:11:31

he's like that fucking honest with him Also

1:11:33

, the fact that what Carmi is proposing

1:11:36

to Uncle Jimmy is

1:11:38

a legitimate business . This

1:11:40

is a place where you don't need to worry about people

1:11:42

hiding fucking $300,000 in

1:11:45

the tomato cans . I'm giving you an

1:11:48

honest business . Maybe you'll watch some cash

1:11:50

through . Maybe we don't know for sure . I'm

1:11:53

giving you this .

1:11:56

Because I want you to come back to the point you're making . So please note it , I'm on it . I love that he was like he didn't . This can just what when ? Because I want you to come back to the point

1:11:58

you're making , so like please note it I love

1:12:00

that . He was like he didn't put

1:12:02

it in a bank , did he ? And then he go no , no

1:12:04

, no , he put in the cans and they were , and he , you

1:12:06

could see he was like , oh , good boy , which I

1:12:08

was like you have to understand

1:12:11

yeah , a certain brand of life to

1:12:13

understand why he was like oh

1:12:16

shit he didn't put it in a bank

1:12:18

, did he ?

1:12:18

that's not on the radar , is it ?

1:12:19

yeah , you do not put that money in a bank

1:12:21

. So I just thought that was like a brilliant way

1:12:24

to show like we're not in

1:12:26

a normal space here , like we're not

1:12:29

normal right like the one we're custom seeing

1:12:31

.

1:12:31

So anyway , I just want to like highlight that that

1:12:33

was another one of my favorite on reddit , when people

1:12:35

are like why wouldn't uncle j , uncle Jimmy want the money

1:12:38

in the bank ? And I'm like , because his name is Cicero

1:12:40

, because he's in the fucking mob , because it's all

1:12:42

it's all drug money . The fuck are you

1:12:44

thinking , oh my God

1:12:46

, but yeah , no . So what

1:12:48

I was going to say is the

1:12:51

fact that Mikey , as

1:12:53

you know , part of his

1:12:55

mental health issues and his addiction

1:12:58

issues lied about everything to

1:13:00

everyone all of the time , and

1:13:02

so I think that part of the connection between Carmi

1:13:04

and Cicero is that Carmi's like I'm

1:13:06

not going to lie to you , I

1:13:09

will give you the absolute fucking

1:13:11

truth every fucking time and

1:13:21

even though Cicero loves Mikey , it makes him feel like he can trust what Carmi is telling

1:13:23

him . If you say you can run this restaurant , I believe you can run this restaurant . I believe you can , because you fucking told

1:13:25

me that you drugged the kids . You fucking trusted

1:13:27

me to think that I to not lose

1:13:30

my fucking mind when I found out you put

1:13:32

Xanax in the Ecto Cooler . So now

1:13:35

I'm going to trust you .

1:13:37

Yeah , no , that's a really interesting

1:13:40

piece around the trust and

1:13:42

I also think I

1:13:45

used to have a bit I'll

1:13:48

tell us how I mean it , because I'm trying to filter too much

1:13:50

. So I used to have a bit because

1:13:52

, um , you would know , by

1:13:55

you know , coach likes to bust my chops about yelling all that

1:13:57

. But like my family , like there's members of my family , by you know , coach likes to bust my chops about y'all and all that

1:13:59

, but like my family , like there's members of my family

1:14:01

who , you know , maybe don't live on the same , haven't

1:14:03

lived on the same side of law as me , let's

1:14:05

, let's just say that and and

1:14:08

so , and

1:14:11

. So one person in particular

1:14:13

was , you know , going to get higher . You know

1:14:15

, smoke some crack from time to time and , uh

1:14:18

, as one does , yep . And so

1:14:20

I came

1:14:22

up with a whole thing called

1:14:24

crackhead logic . I used to have a bit about

1:14:26

it when I used to do stand-up and I was

1:14:28

like crackhead logic is like

1:14:30

some shit . A crackhead will say to you

1:14:32

, believing

1:14:35

you'll believe it , because they are so fucking

1:14:37

high . It is lost on them that that is

1:14:40

fucking crazy what

1:14:42

they're saying . So I know someone who , using crackhead

1:14:44

logic , um explained

1:14:47

to their parent at the time after

1:14:49

take them taking them a considerable

1:14:51

number of years to make any progress

1:14:54

in college that they needed to get

1:14:56

the tuition money in cash

1:14:58

because that was the only way the school

1:15:00

would accept payment . Oh , that

1:15:02

makes sense . That is some other fucking crack at logic

1:15:04

, like how do you part your lips

1:15:06

to say that to

1:15:09

another sentient human being

1:15:11

, like what is happening right now . But

1:15:13

that's the kind of thing . So to me , in

1:15:16

some ways , I wonder if Mikey

1:15:18

got to that point where

1:15:20

because because I'm careful

1:15:23

in the bit , part of the bit is like it's

1:15:25

not a lie as such

1:15:27

, because they

1:15:29

convince themselves on the way to

1:15:31

saying it that that's the story

1:15:34

and they are now telling it to

1:15:36

you as their new cracked

1:15:38

out reality is uh , oh

1:15:40

, yeah , no , no , I need the money because and they can

1:15:42

say it a hundred times I bet they could pass a

1:15:44

lie detector . Yep , but it is complete

1:15:47

. They are telling you utter bullshit . So

1:15:49

I think you're right about

1:15:51

cicero , but I also think part

1:15:53

of why he didn't say mikey , get the fuck

1:15:55

out of my face is

1:15:58

he was looking at this guy and going you really

1:16:00

fucking think you're getting ready to franchise this shit ? Huh

1:16:02

yeah , just take this money , just go , yep

1:16:04

. Yeah .

1:16:06

I don't know . Yeah , this is interesting about

1:16:09

Mike , so I want to . I want

1:16:12

to point out something

1:16:14

people would say about . So we have Ted Lasso

1:16:16

, we have Wayne and we have the

1:16:19

Bear . Ted Lasso and Wayne

1:16:21

share . There's a lot of commonalities

1:16:24

between all three shows . One of the

1:16:26

things that the Bear probably

1:16:28

doesn't have in the same way that Ted Lasso

1:16:31

and certainly Wayne has , is

1:16:33

the prevalence of

1:16:35

a very clear

1:16:37

rooting interest . Uh

1:16:43

, prevalence of a very clear rooting interest . So when you're watching wayne

1:16:45

, you go yes , wayne , dell , I am with you , let's fucking rock , right . Um , you're

1:16:47

with them . Uh , ted lasso gets called

1:16:49

a wanker and right away you're like okay , I

1:16:51

am with him , right . And then by by

1:16:53

, uh , the associative property , everyone

1:16:55

he touches . We talk about him , him

1:16:57

being the pebble thrown into a still pool

1:17:00

and the ripples affect everyone he touches

1:17:02

. Then

1:17:04

, by association , those people also become

1:17:06

sort of rootable . With

1:17:09

the bear it's less clear and

1:17:11

so that is

1:17:14

a . It's a knock on the show

1:17:16

for some people , because that

1:17:18

is a prerequisite for some watchers

1:17:20

. Sometimes viewers are like I don't know who to get

1:17:22

behind here . Everyone lets me down , even

1:17:24

when they are great , they're kind of messy and

1:17:28

along with that comes

1:17:31

a . There's

1:17:33

a commentary about the bear in general

1:17:35

, up until we're recording this

1:17:37

before season three drops , so

1:17:39

up until this point , there

1:17:42

there is a quality of , of

1:17:44

passive victimhood

1:17:46

that

1:17:48

, um , some people have called

1:17:51

out in in that , uh

1:17:54

, the shared experience

1:17:57

of all the characters , uh

1:17:59

is like , especially when they're coping

1:18:01

with grief , we understand it and and it

1:18:03

was not it's not meant in in a pejorative

1:18:05

sense like , oh , they're such victims . It's

1:18:08

like the one unifying

1:18:10

quality is that they're all contending

1:18:12

with things . They're just kind of generally shitty

1:18:15

and and and

1:18:17

a people don't

1:18:20

seem in and of themselves to sort

1:18:22

of um , produce

1:18:24

change on their own outside

1:18:27

of a system or outside of like a uh

1:18:30

, uh , clear methodology . So

1:18:32

it's not like , um , I

1:18:36

don't know . This is something that these are . These

1:18:38

are concepts that have been brought up by people who

1:18:40

say one of my favorite comments

1:18:43

about the Bear is oh , my

1:18:45

God , it is an amazing show . I

1:18:48

wish I liked it . I

1:18:50

might love it , but I'm not sure I like it

1:18:53

. Or they'll say you know how other

1:18:55

shows make you . Oh , I remember that

1:18:57

scene Somehow . When I watch

1:18:59

the bear , I don't remember anything

1:19:01

. There's nothing memorable about any

1:19:03

of the scenes . In the same way , other shows are

1:19:05

memorable , like these big moments , and I

1:19:07

was like , oh yeah , that , that really that resonates

1:19:10

with me , not because it's not memorable , but

1:19:12

I'm like , oh , what are they trying ? What are those people trying

1:19:14

to get out of the show ? That it's

1:19:16

not satisfying . I think rooting interest plays

1:19:18

into it when I look at this show . Juliana

1:19:23

asked me who

1:19:25

, who do you relate to ? And I'm not going

1:19:27

to say the answer because I want to

1:19:29

hear from boss and from coach . Coach

1:19:32

, especially you , I

1:19:34

just like you a lot more than I like boss , and

1:19:37

I , yeah , no , I , uh , yeah

1:19:39

, no , I really actually cause it's fresh in your

1:19:41

mind , coach , I'm curious as to

1:19:44

if you have a person that's like your

1:19:46

person on the show . Is

1:19:48

there someone you relate to more than anyone else ?

1:19:52

Um , yes

1:19:56

, that would be Richie

1:19:58

Sid tina

1:20:01

right okay , okay

1:20:03

, no , no , and I say that obviously

1:20:05

I'm fucking around , but , but , but it's funny

1:20:07

because , as you were asking it , actually it's

1:20:09

one of the things I do like about the show

1:20:11

and I , and , and

1:20:13

what struck me because you were saying , is that they

1:20:16

want a rooting interest . I think sometimes

1:20:18

what we , what we want sometimes

1:20:22

from our entertainment , is clarity . Yeah

1:20:25

, right , and some of the stories

1:20:27

I love the best . I'm not going to present this here as like

1:20:29

oh , I'm into new . Right like

1:20:31

no one , no one , no one is

1:20:33

like oh , but what was thanos's

1:20:35

dad like ? Right like no one . Like you

1:20:38

snapped your fingers . You're the bad guy , we're

1:20:40

gonna stop you . We're the good guys . Right

1:20:42

, we're in , we're out , we got it . I

1:20:45

actually like about this that the

1:20:47

show insists on on being

1:20:49

like no , carmy

1:20:51

was out of fucking line . He did not need to

1:20:54

slap a donut out of a man's hand

1:20:56

, regardless , regardless of what was bothering him

1:20:58

, and even if he did think that

1:21:00

Marcus was fucking up , that

1:21:02

you were just an out-of-control

1:21:04

.

1:21:05

Marcus was fucking up , he was

1:21:07

, he was fucking up .

1:21:08

No , no , no , it's like

1:21:10

dude , we are in the shit and

1:21:12

you are like , hey Dad , you want to see my drawing

1:21:15

? Like no , no , no , not now I don't

1:21:17

. Hey dad , you want to see my drawing ? Like no , no , no , not now , I don't

1:21:19

. The house is on fire . Like I have to look at your drawing some

1:21:21

other time , kid . But that doesn't

1:21:23

mean you get to be out of control , right

1:21:26

, and I like that they didn't just let him

1:21:28

off the hook , that he , like you

1:21:30

, are out of fucking line . And

1:21:32

if this place is going to not be the

1:21:34

places that we're talking about , to

1:21:40

not be the places that we're talking about , that cannot happen . You have to figure

1:21:42

out how to do something else , and maybe it's that fist to the chest , maybe it's whatever I don't

1:21:44

know what the fuck it is , but it's something . It can't be

1:21:46

that . And so , yeah , I guess

1:21:48

, throughout I found myself like appreciating

1:21:52

that I love them , and

1:21:55

there's not a single character

1:21:57

in this show who

1:21:59

at some point I didn't

1:22:01

want to choke , at

1:22:05

some point where I was like , god damn

1:22:08

it . And that's

1:22:10

what sometimes

1:22:13

, friends and family and

1:22:15

people we love and situations or whatever

1:22:17

feels like , there's

1:22:21

times with my . I quickly I'll tell you that

1:22:23

this one's gonna be quick . This one's quick

1:22:26

, okay , but I had a confrontation recently

1:22:28

and had the , the , the , the wherewithal

1:22:30

to record this confrontation . I will say more

1:22:32

about the confrontation after I've documented

1:22:35

something is that also tattooed

1:22:37

on your body .

1:22:37

That conversation , that conversation is

1:22:39

not Although .

1:22:40

I have put a lot of shit on my body

1:22:42

the last few years . A

1:22:44

lot

1:22:47

. I have told a whole fucking tale

1:22:50

across my torso , but

1:22:52

but , but but I

1:22:54

think she

1:22:58

said to me that at a certain

1:23:00

point watching and

1:23:03

this was to the positive but at a certain point watching

1:23:05

it , she was

1:23:08

audibly telling the people

1:23:10

in the video to just go home

1:23:12

, because she basically

1:23:14

was like oh , he's going to demolish

1:23:17

you now you don't even understand . You

1:23:19

just walked into a buzzsaw and

1:23:21

I I've known him my entire life

1:23:23

and he's about to crush you . So

1:23:26

she told me that in the context of the

1:23:28

video she was like right , please

1:23:31

, god , just go , because he's gonna destroy

1:23:33

you now you don't even understand . But

1:23:37

there are also been moments she knows

1:23:39

that about me because there have been moments

1:23:41

that we pass that point and

1:23:43

you can just see my friends or cousins

1:23:45

or whatever , just all sort of like , hang

1:23:48

their heads a little or step to the side a little

1:23:50

because they're like and there he goes

1:23:52

, and when I exploded

1:23:54

, I exploded and I you know what I mean and

1:23:57

so she knows seeing that and

1:23:59

that was my experience of several moments

1:24:01

like sid would do some sid

1:24:03

shit , like the sid marcus

1:24:06

argument , which was a hilarious

1:24:08

argument because the argument was basically

1:24:11

we both like each other

1:24:13

and are too fucking awkward to end up on

1:24:15

a date like I

1:24:17

was like this is amazing . I

1:24:19

was like this is amazing writing

1:24:22

. But I get where people are like look

1:24:25

, there's shit everywhere . I just want two

1:24:27

people to be good looking

1:24:29

and smile at each other and

1:24:31

have a first kiss , and

1:24:33

now I've got to decide if it's someone's

1:24:35

fault that they had an argument . I get where

1:24:38

it's like give me a break . And

1:24:41

that's what I love about the show .

1:24:42

The barrier to it is actually

1:24:44

relevant

1:24:47

because there's been tons of

1:24:49

studies on how

1:24:51

reticent some of the younger generations

1:24:53

are to get together and how

1:24:56

the complexity seems more

1:24:58

are

1:25:01

to to get together and how , how the complexity seems more and they're they're

1:25:03

, they hook up less and they , uh , you know , hang out less and in person

1:25:05

and stuff . So , uh , there's , there's all those uh things

1:25:07

, the the show has a quality

1:25:09

to it . Um , where , uh

1:25:12

, my daughter , my college-aged daughter , watched

1:25:14

it and she's like what is it that drives

1:25:16

me crazy about this show ? She's like I love

1:25:18

it , I absolutely love it . I said , for me , it's like

1:25:21

when you're playing with a dog

1:25:23

and the dog has like a treat

1:25:25

that you want to throw and you have

1:25:27

it in his mouth and you're like , all right , come on , give me the fucking

1:25:29

treat . And you're pulling on it , you

1:25:32

, because you know there's better things out there . Namely

1:25:34

when you throw the treat or whatever the toy

1:25:36

right , and the

1:25:39

dog refuses to go to , to

1:25:41

like , do what's better for him , and but

1:25:43

every once in a while the dog will let up and

1:25:46

you have a brief glimmer , you

1:25:48

know , like where it slips out of his teeth a little bit before

1:25:50

he clamps back down and the show has

1:25:52

that quality . Sometimes you have these

1:25:54

beautiful moments where you're like , oh my god , look . And

1:25:56

then right away the show is like . But

1:25:58

also you're like , oh my God , and then right away the show is like but also , you know it's

1:26:01

. It's still business as usual . Boss

1:26:03

, we didn't get to ask you if there was someone

1:26:06

in particular you related to in the

1:26:08

show .

1:26:09

Not a single person that I'm like that's there's

1:26:12

my guy . Like I will fully admit that

1:26:14

when

1:26:16

I was watching shameless , I have said

1:26:19

before like I am in love with lip

1:26:21

gallagher and also I feel like lip gallagher

1:26:23

and that's a whole narcissism thing that I'm going

1:26:25

to need to figure out in a different amount of therapy

1:26:27

. Um , I do not

1:26:30

, I do not have that personal connection with car me

1:26:32

. In the same way I don't know if this is like a second child

1:26:34

thing or whatever it is um

1:26:36

, I , um , I will say that

1:26:38

there are elements of all

1:26:40

of the characters that I do identify with

1:26:42

. We talked before about

1:26:44

Richie being able to fit into the

1:26:47

running

1:26:49

, the what was it ? The not

1:26:51

executing I'm forgetting the word but whatever

1:26:53

he was doing and oh , the

1:26:55

CDC stuff yeah . Just

1:26:58

like managing the kitchen that he

1:27:00

, his ability

1:27:02

to find calmness

1:27:04

and chaos is what did that for

1:27:07

him . Um and I'm going to talk about richie

1:27:09

so much when we go through each

1:27:11

of the episodes , uh , we

1:27:13

find out in the forks

1:27:15

episode that he says my

1:27:17

best friend's mom was like my mom and

1:27:21

knowing now what that best friend's mom

1:27:23

was like , you're like , well , what the fuck was happening

1:27:25

in your house , richie .

1:27:27

Yeah , seriously Donna .

1:27:30

Donna was who you went

1:27:33

to .

1:27:33

That's a great fucking point . Jesus

1:27:35

Christ , what was

1:27:37

your ? House like . And so there's

1:27:40

more Italian than that .

1:27:41

Fuck Jesus , motherfucking Christ

1:27:43

. So there's an episode of

1:27:45

the TV show house where the

1:27:48

whatever patient of the week or whatever she

1:27:51

has some sort of her brain is killing

1:27:53

her . Whatever it is that her brain is fucking up , her

1:27:55

brain is killing her and he realizes that her brain is set

1:27:57

in a brain is killing her and he realizes that her brain is set in a way where

1:28:00

chaos and noise and everything

1:28:02

else . She's a kindergarten teacher . All

1:28:04

of the like yelling and shouting actually

1:28:06

chills her out , makes her more

1:28:09

subdued and she is more able to

1:28:11

deal with the screaming children than anything

1:28:13

else interesting wow , richie has

1:28:15

so much of that like yeah , that's

1:28:17

, interesting this is when my niece accidentally

1:28:20

set some wooden flowers on fire and

1:28:22

I just calmly walked over and grabbed them

1:28:24

and put them in the sink . I

1:28:28

think when you are raised in a level of chaos

1:28:30

where it becomes second nature

1:28:32

, that feels very oh

1:28:34

, I've got this . I've mentioned

1:28:36

before there are people at the beginning of pandemic , once

1:28:43

we got used to not going anywhere , we like , oh , the world

1:28:45

is on fire . Okay , I , I got .

1:28:46

I got this , I could I can do all of this yeah , um it's funny

1:28:48

you say that I'm sorry guys you know , so I

1:28:50

.

1:28:50

The only other thing that I was going to say about this is

1:28:52

that what you were just talking

1:28:55

about castleton , with that like you're

1:28:57

dog , like wanting it to turn

1:29:00

a corner , wanting it to get better . I

1:29:02

jokingly , although not so much , when

1:29:05

we were texting earlier this morning , I

1:29:07

said Bishop

1:29:10

said , after mainlining

1:29:12

that level of the bear , I'm

1:29:15

going to need some more therapy . And I was like

1:29:17

the thing that's wrong with me is that watching the

1:29:19

bear is therapy like that's

1:29:21

.

1:29:21

We could screenshot that . That is the text

1:29:23

I got in response that's it .

1:29:25

But I I , I

1:29:28

do mean that . I mean that every

1:29:30

time that they are like here's

1:29:32

a good moment , and now this is fucking horrible

1:29:35

, and like this feels so great

1:29:37

and also , oh my god , how did you live through

1:29:39

fishes like I it

1:29:41

it does make me feel better . I did like

1:29:43

it is comforting in a weird way . There

1:29:46

is an element of you

1:29:49

don't want to stand too close

1:29:51

to the fire because it burns , but

1:29:53

also like have it being able

1:29:55

to experience some of those emotions

1:29:57

with a little bit of distance , just

1:30:00

enough , so that it's not , I am not

1:30:02

in danger . But I get to experience

1:30:05

a lot of that shit where I'm like , oh yeah

1:30:07

.

1:30:08

I get that A hundred percent

1:30:11

. I love

1:30:13

that . You said that Fish

1:30:15

is Holy shit Also

1:30:17

, by the way . Sorry , just real quick , the funniest

1:30:20

shit I've seen in a long time

1:30:22

. Fucking hysterical

1:30:24

to me but I think I would want

1:30:27

okay . So here's one question , because I also there

1:30:29

was there , as , again

1:30:31

, going through at this pace was insane

1:30:33

, because I'm like processing all and

1:30:35

trying to remember like facts . It was really

1:30:38

wild , but I

1:30:40

share your . There was part of

1:30:42

me that was laughing during

1:30:44

Fishes , like through all of it and like as

1:30:46

she , as Donna's , melting down and I'm like

1:30:48

, oh no , like early

1:30:51

in the episode I was like mm-mm

1:30:53

, yeah , mm-mm , this ends

1:30:55

so fucking poorly and

1:30:58

what I love that the show did

1:31:00

and sometimes shows can fuck this up I

1:31:03

feel like they were like , hmm , your family's

1:31:05

chaotic too . Huh , oh , let me tell you another story . Your

1:31:07

family's chaotic too . Okay , okay , great

1:31:09

, okay , great . Here's

1:31:14

their mother driving through the house . So I think for 99%

1:31:16

of people you go well , okay , well , my family

1:31:18

was fuck up . Okay , okay

1:31:21

, you win , all right yeah

1:31:24

, you know , I'm saying like god damn

1:31:27

, and I love , but then too

1:31:29

, like to watch sugar , even

1:31:31

that , because sugar is , you know

1:31:33

, not literally , because we had that conversation the

1:31:35

other day , but sugar is sweet , right

1:31:38

right . So I didn't know why her name

1:31:40

was sugar , but that's the thing I could imagine

1:31:42

. I mean sugar , ray lennon , right , like , like this

1:31:44

, you know sugar is a nickname I've heard

1:31:46

before . But that

1:31:49

reason , like even that even

1:31:51

the cutesy fucking nickname

1:31:54

is a

1:31:56

a badge of your fucking

1:31:58

trauma yep , yep . That

1:32:00

is a reminder of one of your worst moments

1:32:03

and I saw her

1:32:05

watch that

1:32:07

car drive in and everyone

1:32:09

else went reasonably

1:32:12

fucking berserk and

1:32:14

she's just sitting there because

1:32:16

it's not calm , like on

1:32:18

the outside it's calm , but I

1:32:20

feel like , oh , she's , like , she's detaching

1:32:23

from y'all , like she's like I'm

1:32:25

not in this place anymore , like she's

1:32:28

just back , like emotionally

1:32:30

leaving , and it makes all the more

1:32:32

sense that she will go in that motherfucker restaurant

1:32:34

. I wouldn't go in that motherfucker either . You motherfuckers

1:32:37

are crazy . I don't know why god

1:32:39

popped me down in the middle of you lunatics . Yeah

1:32:41

, yeah , I I'm not

1:32:43

. I want no fucking parts of this

1:32:45

. I don't want to smell it , I don't want

1:32:47

to hear about it , I'm fucking out

1:32:50

yep , and this is like

1:32:52

obviously we are going to get into this .

1:32:54

But the thing is , I could talk right now

1:32:56

for an hour straight about natalie

1:32:58

, about her being sugar , her being

1:33:00

referenced as sugar in the beginning , everything

1:33:03

that happens in the second season , with her becoming

1:33:06

the project manager for this rebirth

1:33:08

of the restaurant , her choice in

1:33:10

husband and how he plays

1:33:12

into it like amazing .

1:33:13

No , no , listen , we have to talk about .

1:33:15

We have to talk about Pete Amazing we have to

1:33:17

talk about Pete . Oh

1:33:21

, I'm in . I'm in because that is fucking fascinating . Is this a Chicago thing ?

1:33:23

No , this is being a fucked up girl thing .

1:33:27

What I mean is we

1:33:30

meet Pete through

1:33:32

the eye . We don't start out by sort

1:33:34

of meeting Pete through through

1:33:37

uh , sugars slash natalie's eyes

1:33:39

. We we see how , like

1:33:41

our biggest entree to pete , you

1:33:43

know in the , in the beginning it's like no

1:33:45

sweetie , I wasn't talking to you or whatever you're

1:33:48

not in the room .

1:33:49

No , sweetie , you didn't say anything you didn't

1:33:51

say anything , right she's a fucking hilarious line

1:33:53

. No , no , honey , you weren't talking

1:33:55

, no no , right .

1:33:56

So that's the , that's the first sort of

1:33:58

you go . Okay , but that's like about them

1:34:00

. That's about them when we see them at the

1:34:03

children's birthday party and

1:34:06

Uncle Jimmy's like , even

1:34:08

when he's passed out , he's like I want to beat him up so

1:34:10

badly I fucking hate him and

1:34:12

I'm like , oh my God , and

1:34:15

they hate being around him

1:34:18

. And

1:34:20

then when I look at what he's saying , it's moderately ted

1:34:22

, lasso , ish , it's very positive

1:34:25

. He's uh . He says

1:34:27

to carmen hey , I followed you and

1:34:29

I watched what you're doing and it took an amazing amount of courage

1:34:31

to do this stuff . And they're like fuck you

1:34:34

. And I'm so I go . Oh god , like

1:34:36

there . Well yeah

1:34:39

, is this . I'm asking for you , for

1:34:41

the two of you . Is there a commonality to this

1:34:43

? If it felt , it

1:34:46

almost took me out of it in a way where

1:34:48

I'm like it , pete's not that bad , like , is the

1:34:50

joke that pete's not that bad , or

1:34:52

is the joke like like the pete is annoying

1:34:54

? I get all that and p Pete can be grating and

1:34:57

Pete whatever . It's

1:35:01

like Crooked Mike is right outside the door

1:35:03

or whatever . What's the guy dealing

1:35:06

drugs right outside the oh , nico , there's

1:35:09

Nico too . But the guy that Richie

1:35:12

shook hands with Crooked something . Oh

1:35:15

yeah , crooked Mike , or whatever , and

1:35:18

the other guy is like mr carl or whatever

1:35:20

, whatever , like

1:35:22

those guys are actually legit

1:35:24

trouble . It's like , boss , when you're like oh , coach

1:35:27

, I don't trust you because you're not able to uh , to

1:35:29

uh recognize danger . It's

1:35:32

like pete is not danger , like , but

1:35:34

they treat him like he is

1:35:37

a virus and I'm like what

1:35:39

is that dynamic ? I thought it was like an

1:35:41

inside baseball thing for Chicago

1:35:43

. Everybody has someone in their family that

1:35:45

sucks shit . I thought it was this kind of thing Because

1:35:48

I'm still not 100%

1:35:50

on . Okay

1:35:52

, I'll go with it , but I'm like Pete is not

1:35:55

. He's irritating .

1:35:58

But he's Well , I'm curious You've had

1:36:01

. Oh sorry , boss , Go ahead .

1:36:02

No , no , no . I was going to say I would love to hear what you have to

1:36:04

say about it .

1:36:07

My sense of it is they're

1:36:09

unhealthy . But

1:36:12

if everybody in the circle is unhealthy

1:36:14

, you kind of don't have to deal with unhealthy

1:36:16

. But when there's somebody in the circle

1:36:19

who's like , hey , you're

1:36:21

the mother of the two people who

1:36:23

just opened up an amazing

1:36:25

fucking restaurant , why don't you come

1:36:27

in to an opening you were invited

1:36:29

to and enjoy this moment

1:36:31

of success and the like

1:36:34

that is and

1:36:36

this word is dangerous , but I'll say it this way for

1:36:38

this context . That is and this word is dangerous , but I'll say it this way for

1:36:40

this context that is normal . Mm-hmm , mm-hmm , that is a normal

1:36:42

way to behave . Yes , we

1:36:45

get , and I think on some

1:36:47

level , even if it hurt , sugar , every

1:36:49

character would get . Why there is 0.0

1:36:52

fucking chance that Donna

1:36:54

can trust herself in that restaurant

1:36:57

? Yep , yes that Donna can trust herself in that restaurant . She's

1:36:59

not going in there because she's like it's

1:37:03

the New Haven club again . She's like

1:37:06

, oh , that that

1:37:08

they just created over there . That's way

1:37:11

too motherfucking nice for me to

1:37:13

be a part of .

1:37:13

Yeah , and she'll drink too much and she'll cause a scene

1:37:15

and she'll ruin the night .

1:37:17

I don't want to ruin it .

1:37:19

How's the pizza in New Haven ? Out of curiosity .

1:37:23

It's a point of pride for

1:37:25

New Haven being from New York . Okay

1:37:29

, that was always my . I was like

1:37:31

I'll eat it , it's fine . I'm

1:37:33

not mad at the pizza here . I'm not sure that

1:37:35

it's what you think , but maybe mad

1:37:40

at the pizza here .

1:37:40

I'm not sure that it's what you think , but maybe butter on our , on our , uh

1:37:42

, on our community site , uh , marie uh posted a question . She's like how

1:37:44

, how the hell is new haven , the pizza capital

1:37:46

of the us , and I was like I don't know , it seems wrong to me and

1:37:49

then um , buttercup , buttercup

1:37:51

, eric is enlisting your help coach to

1:37:53

back for backup . He's like there's at

1:37:56

least three .

1:37:57

Pepe's .

1:37:58

Yeah , there's several modern

1:38:00

.

1:38:00

Sally's bars the parties

1:38:02

.

1:38:02

Sally's yeah , yeah , yeah , so I didn't

1:38:04

know if it was , I wasn't aware that was a

1:38:06

thing . Pizza Capital .

1:38:08

No , that is definitely a real thing

1:38:10

. I'm not sure that I would rank it tops

1:38:12

tops myself , having had New York

1:38:15

, chicago and New

1:38:17

Haven but

1:38:19

it's quite good .

1:38:20

I will state again for the record Way to walk

1:38:22

on that fence , Coach . For

1:38:25

the record , again , I will state I

1:38:27

don't understand why there's any sort

1:38:29

of disagreement , like even the slightest

1:38:31

kind of like oh no , ours is better . Oh no

1:38:34

, ours is better between New York

1:38:36

and Chicago . I don't understand why this fight is happening

1:38:38

when St Louis pizza exists , when

1:38:40

it is still a thing that people are eating and putting into

1:38:43

their bodies and choosing to

1:38:45

have .

1:38:46

Is that with the square cutting ? Oh

1:38:48

no , that is Chicago Tavern pizza . That is fucking

1:38:50

delicious . My mouth just started watering when

1:38:53

I'm talking about it honestly

1:38:55

.

1:38:55

I have a picture , I can see it .

1:38:58

Aren't you the one that shared a pizza puff ?

1:39:01

Yes , Pizza puffs are

1:39:03

delicious . They're amazing .

1:39:07

I will stand by a pizza puff all day . See , that's we don't . We don't coach , we don't . In

1:39:09

the affluent white community we call that martini

1:39:11

logic . You

1:39:14

know it's just you can't have just one . It's

1:39:16

not crackhead logic .

1:39:17

Okay , I love everything

1:39:20

that's happening here . You know what I mean .

1:39:21

You just say oh yeah , she's convinced herself Pizza

1:39:24

puffs are delicious . I know she's not lying .

1:39:26

You come , you eat one . It's fucking

1:39:29

amazing . But St Louis pizza just for those who

1:39:31

are unaware is what they describe

1:39:33

as a cracker-thin crust

1:39:35

. So not like a Brooklyn

1:39:37

pizza , not even like a tavern

1:39:39

crust , like crackery , it

1:39:42

breaks in your mouth . Crust , sweet

1:39:45

sauce they call it sweet , they

1:39:47

say it should be sweet . And

1:39:56

then Provol cheese . And if you've never heard of Provol , that's because it is made in one county

1:39:58

in minnesota and sent to st louis for their terrible pizzas

1:40:00

. It's not real cheese , it's a cheese

1:40:02

product and they put it on their pizza and they expect

1:40:04

people to eat it . It's trash

1:40:06

, it is straight trash . St louis

1:40:09

, I've been to you , I love you . I think your barbecue

1:40:11

is fucking amazing . Throw the pizza in