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Rolling Stone music now wherever you listen. Right

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now on the Diamond Factory ticket

0:33

hotline we have Tim

0:35

Cato from the Athletic joining us.

0:38

Tim, how you doing today my friend? I'm

0:41

doing well. How are you guys? We're doing pretty

0:43

good and I gotta say as a Mavericks

0:46

fan it feels good

0:48

that they finally were able to

0:50

land one of these big

0:52

name free agency targets that they've been

0:54

going after for years. It just

0:56

feels good to finally have that happen. My

0:58

question to you, my first question is to you is A, why

1:02

did this happen? Is it the

1:04

Luca Effect finally taking hold or is it

1:07

the fact that maybe this front office is

1:09

doing business now differently than

1:12

in years past? So

1:15

I do think it's different and I do think this

1:17

franchise is different. To go on a very brief side

1:19

bar you're 100% right. We

1:21

remember the past decade. I was just

1:23

going through this as I wrote an

1:26

article about just

1:28

what this place finding symbolizes. Dallas

1:31

has lost on players who they've

1:33

targeted because they've

1:35

been announced on Snapchat. They're starting with

1:37

another team. They've announced on their own

1:40

podcasts. They've

1:42

had finalists list come out that Dallas is just not on. Dallas

1:45

has had an agent tell a

1:47

player to take a minimum contract,

1:49

a qualifying offer rather

1:51

than 70 million. They've

1:54

had players who they targeted come years later as

1:56

like a sort of consolation prize. their

2:00

past their primes. You know,

2:02

that's Darren Williams, that's DeAndre

2:04

Jordan. You

2:06

know, the biggest agency signing is

2:08

probably Sean Marion or Chandler Parsons.

2:11

And so I do think that

2:13

this signing is important. Yes, Clay is

2:16

not the Clay Thompson who, you

2:18

know, we're accustomed to. He's not the

2:20

person, you

2:23

know, that he used to be, that

2:25

used to turn quarters into shooting exhibitions.

2:28

But he's a star. And this is the

2:30

first time Dallas has been on the open market

2:33

and been pursuing someone with actual

2:35

star power. And they've

2:37

won. This is the biggest name they've ever

2:39

signed outright and for agency. And

2:42

to bring it back to your point, yes, I

2:44

do think it's about Nico Harrison. I do

2:46

think it's about this revamped front office, the relationships

2:48

that Nico has with these players,

2:51

the relationships that Mike Finley has with these

2:53

players and that Jason Kidd has with these

2:55

players. And I do think also, and again,

2:58

it took Nico to get in here,

3:01

but I think it's about Kyrie. You

3:03

know, Luca was a more attractive proposition

3:06

for players to come play with because of his

3:08

age and because of his

3:10

talent than an aging Dirk Nowitzki was and

3:12

in the twilight years of his 30s. That

3:16

allowed Nico to make a daring move

3:18

that is paid off for Kyrie Irving.

3:21

And all of a sudden, this

3:23

team, you know, this market, this

3:25

franchise that was always hardworking, it

3:27

was represented by the ethos of

3:29

Dirk Nowitzki. It is now

3:31

somebody, you know, a franchise, a

3:33

team, a organization that

3:36

can compete and win out on

3:38

someone like Clay Thompson, even over

3:40

a glamor market like LA. And

3:43

I think that matters and I think that's an

3:45

important moment in this franchise with history. We're

3:49

chatting with Tim Cato of The Athletic about little

3:51

mavs here on the ticket. I think

3:53

you're spot on and I

3:55

definitely, we wanna

3:57

say Nico Harrison has done such a great job.

4:00

Kyrie Irving is also a

4:02

fascinating topic because you

4:06

can stretch a little bit to say that

4:08

Kyrie affects you getting Clay Thompson, but

4:11

there is sort of that veteran leadership

4:14

that Kyrie has matured into

4:16

that I think plays a big factor

4:18

into someone like Clay Thompson wanted to

4:20

come here. We all saw the

4:22

reports that Clay turned down more

4:24

money, and for the

4:26

first time ever we can say that maybe income

4:29

tax actually helped us, right?

4:33

It's always been brought up as a reason why guys

4:35

should come here, and finally a guy who came here

4:37

actually brought it up himself. But

4:40

I guess really more what I guess

4:43

I would ask is the veteran

4:45

leadership that is Kyrie Irving in

4:48

my opinion is better than

4:50

what you could get out of LeBron with

4:53

the Lakers. And by reaching

4:55

for something here or does it not seem like

4:57

Kyrie is more of a team

5:00

first type of guy that you would want

5:02

to play for, even taking Luca out of

5:04

the situation? Maybe

5:07

I think you're right about Kyrie. That's a

5:09

hard one to compare him directly to LeBron,

5:11

especially just because Kyrie is going to be

5:13

in his prime for a few more years.

5:17

But yeah, even sometimes I, you know,

5:19

during last regular season, sometimes I would

5:21

blink and be like, yeah, that's actually

5:24

Kyrie. You know, we talked

5:26

about glamour markets. He's a glamour player. Him

5:28

being a Dallas Maverick is almost like watching a

5:31

silent film and somebody pulls out

5:33

an iPhone. Like it doesn't feel

5:35

right, and yet he's here. But

5:38

my colleague Tim Kamikawi, who was a

5:40

columnist in Golden State and in the

5:43

Bay Area for the

5:45

Athletic, he wrote about Clay's departure.

5:47

And one of the things that

5:49

he wrote about Clay last season

5:51

was that Clay just really didn't

5:53

enjoy his time with the Warriors.

5:55

He didn't enjoy this harsh spotlight,

5:58

honestly like a black light, if you will. Anytime

6:00

he had a bad performance, any time he went

6:03

0 of 10 in the

6:05

play-in tournament. Yes, I think

6:07

that 0 of 10 showing is a sign that he

6:10

has declined as a player. He is not the

6:12

second option, the

6:15

just ferocious two-way player he once was. But

6:18

he's still a very good player who

6:20

has something to offer. You know, average

6:22

18 points last year, shot 38% on threes.

6:26

And for him to want a,

6:28

you know, just a little bit less harsh of a spotlight.

6:32

Who would you talk to? Who could you look at? Who

6:34

might have just experienced this exact same thing? It's

6:37

Kyrie Irving. Right. Who

6:39

has completely revitalized and experienced

6:42

a renaissance of his personal image over

6:45

this finals run over the past year. So,

6:48

yeah, when you look, when you look at

6:50

all those factors, when you look at how

6:52

Kyrie has been treated here, how he has

6:54

thrived here, I think that's exactly it. I

6:56

think that is absolutely something that

6:59

really factored into Clay's decision to

7:01

choose Dallas. And the other thing

7:03

too, I mean, even if you

7:05

look at Kyrie, or not Kyrie, but Clay's numbers

7:07

from last year, one, his

7:09

numbers are still better than Tim Hardaway Jr., even though we

7:11

consider it to be a down year. He

7:14

played more games than both Luca and

7:16

Kyrie last year. And now

7:18

he's entering an environment where he's going

7:20

to get those open looks. And the

7:22

Mavericks love the corner three, and

7:25

he's excelled at that. He's going to

7:27

get great passes, catch and shoot opportunities.

7:29

I feel like he has to look at

7:32

this and think, yeah, why wouldn't I do that? Yeah,

7:35

no, 100%. I mean, I've seen some people

7:37

criticize, and they're

7:39

wrong, but they've criticized, oh, well, Clay's not

7:42

going to fit into, you know, this pick

7:44

and roll, ball dominant offense. What

7:46

are you talking about? I mean, Dallas generates so

7:48

many open threes. They're going to bring

7:50

some of that stuff into the offense. It already

7:52

was there for Tim Hardaway, and Clay's a better

7:54

version of that. You know, when you think back

7:57

to the NBA Finals, Dallas lost because

7:59

of their offense. They had a, I

8:01

believe their offensive rating, you know, was 106.

8:04

That would be the worst offense in the entire

8:07

league. They defended all right. Obviously Boston

8:09

helped them out by missing a bunch of shots

8:11

in some of those games. But they defended all

8:13

right to be competitive in that series. It was

8:15

the offense that let them down. And

8:18

so, yes, the defense matters. That's the,

8:20

you know, pivot Dallas made at the

8:22

trade deadline. They need a little

8:24

bit more shooting and Clay's in attempt to kind

8:26

of bridge that defense that brought them to the

8:28

finals and to boost the offense that failed them

8:30

once they got there. Jacob Detimore

8:33

and Kevin Landrum here on the ticket. We're talking with

8:35

Tim Cato of the Athletic talking about the moves the

8:37

Mavs have been made. We're here for

8:39

a few more minutes. Is it safe to

8:41

assume with Clay Thompson that he is not

8:43

only going to start, but play starters' minutes

8:45

with this team? Yeah,

8:48

the understanding is, yes, he is going to start. That

8:50

was important to him. You

8:53

know, just like a lot of players, he

8:55

has a, some of an ego. You

8:58

know, like an ego is not a bad thing, you know, like

9:00

he has done so much. I'm sitting

9:02

next to someone with a bunch of ego right now. Hey,

9:06

man, I think we're all guilty of it. I have a

9:08

bit of an ego sometimes as well, man. So,

9:11

yeah, he's going to start. How many minutes he plays, I

9:13

think it's a really interesting question. Is he going to be

9:15

a closer? Because I think that

9:18

there's going to be a lot of instances where

9:20

it does make sense for him to sit late

9:22

in games. But I think that's going to be

9:25

easier to do, divorced from this Warriors

9:27

environment he had spent 13 years at. You

9:30

know, divorced from, you know, when he

9:32

was in the Warriors uniform, you know, this version

9:34

of him couldn't help but be compared to the

9:37

Clay of Past. And

9:39

I just think this is going to be a

9:41

healthier environment. And if Jason Kidd can manage that,

9:43

if the coaching staff can manage that, you know,

9:45

I think that's the most important thing that's going

9:47

to make this, you

9:49

know, a successful signing is that they can

9:51

make him understand that, yeah, you know, you

9:53

can be a starter. Sometimes

9:55

you're not going to close games. Sometimes you're going to play

9:58

20, 25 minutes. that

10:01

but you know this team's identity is still

10:03

built on its defense and that's still important.

10:05

So with that being said do you think

10:07

the Mavs have more moves in store even

10:09

if they're smaller ones to try and shore

10:11

up the bench and maybe improve

10:13

the offense coming off of the bench because

10:16

they are about as we sit

10:18

today I believe about three or four million dollars under

10:20

the first apron do you think the Mavericks are willing

10:22

to go into that first apron to maybe try and

10:24

get a little bit more offense

10:26

coming off the bench? So

10:28

they won't go into the first apron

10:30

they can't actually because some of the

10:32

exceptions they're using would go away if

10:34

they surpass that. But you're correct but

10:36

you're correct that they have about four

10:39

million to play with that's the money left

10:41

over from you know this is for the

10:43

nerds but the non

10:46

taxpayers mid-level exception that they used

10:48

to sign Najee Marshall they've

10:50

got like four million left in that so they got a little

10:53

bit of money to play around with. A

10:55

lot of people are suggesting point guards and

10:57

someone like Dennis Smith Jr. got a

10:59

lot of guards on the team. I

11:04

would be actually you know I might

11:06

be alone in this I'm kind of interested someone

11:08

like Mo Wagner even though he's

11:10

been a known Luca antagonist just getting

11:12

you know especially if Maxie is possibly

11:15

someone who's not going to be on the team

11:17

much longer just getting a big man who can

11:19

give you a different look you know this team

11:21

is gonna run you know lively and Daniel Gafford

11:23

for about 48 minutes most nights but just having

11:25

that change of pace big man I think is

11:27

useful and Wagner is somebody who can shoot a

11:29

little bit just gives you a slightly

11:31

different look. I think

11:34

that's what I'm more interested in a lot of guards on

11:36

the team but I think for

11:38

the most part the rotation is pretty set at this

11:40

point you know they're gonna run about

11:42

you know nine nine or ten deep now you

11:44

know so I think that

11:46

what you see you know this is

11:49

a starting day opening day rotation is

11:51

it's pretty much going to be players who are

11:54

on the team and I think that's okay I

11:56

think this is a team that is retooled in

11:58

a smart and interesting way.