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versus. Lubars.

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Girls, Ladies and germs. This is Tim

4:47

Ferris. Welcome to another absurd of the

4:50

Tim Ferris show. Where does my job?

4:52

To sit down with world class performers

4:54

from every field imaginable to tease out

4:56

the habits, routines, favorite books and so

4:58

on. the you can apply and test

5:00

in your own lives. This. Episode

5:02

is a two for one and that's

5:04

because the podcast recently hit it's tenth

5:06

year anniversary which is insane to think

5:09

about and past one billion downloads. To

5:11

celebrate, I've curated some of the best

5:13

of the best, some of my favorites

5:15

from more than seven hundred episodes over

5:17

the last decade. I could not be

5:20

more excited to give you these super

5:22

a combo episodes and internally we've been

5:24

calling these the super com absurd because

5:26

my goal is to encourage you to,

5:28

yes, enjoy the household names, the super

5:31

famous folks. But. To also

5:33

introduce you to lesser known people

5:35

I consider stairs. These. Are

5:37

people who have transfer my life and I

5:39

feel like they can do the same for

5:42

many of you. Perhaps they got lost in

5:44

the business cycle? Perhaps you missed an episode?

5:46

Just. Trust me on this one. We went

5:49

to great pains to put these pairings

5:51

together. And. For the bios of

5:53

all, guess. You. Can find

5:55

that and more at teamed

5:57

up Blog/combo. And. Now with a

5:59

for. They do. Please. Enjoy and thank

6:02

you for listening! First.

6:05

Up. Jim. Collins. Author:

6:07

Of iconic business books that include

6:09

good to great How The Mighty

6:12

Fall. And great by

6:14

choice as well as built

6:16

to last and beyond entrepreneurship

6:18

to boy know. Which. He

6:20

coauthored with his mentor, Bill

6:22

Lazear. You. Can find

6:25

gym at Jim collins.com.

6:28

The course of doing some the homework

6:30

for this conversation I come across different

6:33

ways that you seem to measure your

6:35

time and your days and I'd love

6:37

to explore that for just a little

6:39

bit. The first was I read that

6:41

you had and this may have. Evolved

6:44

changed by this point, but a stopwatch

6:46

with three timers in your pocket and

6:48

of this and that it was sensitive,

6:51

indicative of creative teaching and other but

6:53

could you explain. That. Habit please

6:55

for people who are ceremony are also actually

6:57

let me tell you the story of how

6:59

it began. yes, what's the three were about

7:02

and then how it's evolved into something a

7:04

little simpler at a little more powerful. What

7:06

I do with it every single day suffer

7:08

so I don't want to pretend that I'm

7:10

normal. Okay so what I would describe as

7:12

a is not normal behavior, but this is

7:14

it. So when I was thirty six years

7:17

old I made the decision that we can

7:19

come back to the Slater with the want

7:21

to talk about big bats and doing scary

7:23

things such as betting are career. Batting our

7:25

lives to and I alla entrepreneurial path let

7:27

me just kind of step back And so

7:30

to share the origins of this. So.

7:32

I was sitting at Stanford and I it was

7:34

a marvelous journey and of course at great mentors

7:37

and. Learned. How to do my

7:39

research? Their that's where Jerry and I did built to last.

7:42

But I. Had a another

7:44

mentor who encouraged me to think about whether

7:46

I wanted to do a self directed path

7:48

or not. I used to say to my

7:50

students could I thought of ownership and small

7:52

business I always had a my students. Was

7:55

that is something on your own? Why

7:57

give over your creative energies for some.

8:00

The else is definitely challenge them to think

8:02

about that. And I would say if you're

8:04

really interested in business, you don't have to

8:06

go to work for. I. B M

8:08

To be in business you can do your own.

8:10

So my students. This is a wonderful

8:12

thing about great students. They hold you to

8:14

account, right? They said well. What

8:17

are you doing That's entrepreneurial? This

8:20

doesn't look like a very entrepreneurial fine teaching

8:22

these classes and being here. and and so

8:24

I started thinking about it and I realize

8:26

something about myself. I like betting on myself

8:28

so. I. Had this idea who

8:30

don't have to be at I B M to

8:32

be a business. Why do I have to

8:35

be at a university to be. A

8:37

professor So I said the joy and I said

8:39

you know I think I have this idea of

8:41

I'd like to be a self employed professor. To

8:44

and down Wheelchair. So.

8:48

To. In a who with them these things

8:50

together to life. she went along with this.

8:53

Idea of the idea was to try to

8:55

pursue really big questions. It wouldn't be constrained

8:57

by think you could do it all the

8:59

a year. And a first big

9:01

bad on that was the research and built to

9:04

last and it was coming out and I said

9:06

let's just said everything was. And

9:08

so we launched this huge bad that everything

9:10

on that book didn't have a work moved

9:12

down to on less than ten thousand dollars.

9:15

We were actually really scared. We. Call

9:17

it our Selma Louise moments like wants you

9:19

gotta put together. Simply wanted to get to

9:21

the other side. Who. Was a huge bet.

9:23

We didn't know if it would work, but I was very

9:25

clear about one thing. I did

9:28

not want to have a half life

9:30

of quality. In the work.

9:33

What a wonderful things about working have built

9:35

to last with Jerry back at Stanford. No

9:37

one knew who I was. No.

9:40

One called. No. One paid any

9:42

attention. So for six years of working

9:44

on that research project, I. Could

9:46

just. Go. Into the cave.

9:50

And work. And Work And

9:52

Work. And. That kind of

9:54

deep work from you have to go deep

9:56

into the data, seep into the research, deep

9:58

into the thinking, the law, Cycles of

10:01

reflection. That's. A You get the idea

10:03

and that's how you do good stuff. I

10:05

will. I was worried that what would happen

10:07

is if I went from being invisible to

10:10

being visible. On that

10:12

if I was fortunate enough to have. A

10:14

success. That I might

10:17

wake up and five or six or seven

10:19

years and have not. Gone. Back

10:21

to the wellspring. Of

10:23

the deep. Quiet solitude

10:25

of work, And

10:27

and your second book is half as good. Right

10:30

and then the next book after that's

10:32

only half as good. Again, I wanted

10:34

the quality to always get better. As

10:36

I thought, well you know what's interesting is

10:39

a university as a place that really encourages

10:41

that because it's sort of designed to live

10:43

his spend your life and that tranquility. So.

10:45

I went to some faculty members that I greatly

10:48

respect. And I said. How

10:50

to the people? In the

10:52

academy that you must respect and

10:54

yourself spend their time. I

10:56

got a consistent answer. Safety.

10:58

Thirty Twenty. Fifty. Percent

11:00

of your time in New Intellectual

11:03

Creative was. Thirty.

11:05

Percent of your time in teaching.

11:08

And twenty percent a your time and other

11:10

stuff that just has to get duct serving

11:12

on committees be or whatever happens to be

11:14

that you have to do. And so

11:16

I thought, that sounds good, I'm just

11:18

gonna start doing that. So I started

11:21

as I was heading out on the

11:23

Thelma Louise. We're. Counting.

11:25

By hours every day, And I

11:27

would tell how many hours in the day

11:29

were of creative new intellectual. The goal

11:31

was that had to be above fifty percent. Than.

11:34

How many hours would be in teaching? And.

11:37

How many hours would be in other stuff

11:39

like a month? I have somebody out of

11:41

balance the quickbooks right and so I started

11:43

counting and ask for the stopwatch came I

11:45

found this wonderful scruples stop watch like it

11:47

constantly go back and forth and that the

11:49

end of the day I would have the

11:52

total. Later I came

11:54

to the realization that what

11:56

really mattered. Was. The

11:58

first bucket of fried of. And

12:01

so I eventually simplified it. There is a

12:03

concept and great by choice called the Twenty

12:05

Mile Mark and so I can. It had

12:07

a Twenty Mile March. I just didn't know

12:09

that concept yet. And the

12:12

idea being something he just do

12:14

really consistently over time that imposes

12:16

a very high level of discipline

12:18

that accumulates to results. And

12:21

so I simplified it. I just simply said

12:23

ties is simply count the number of creative

12:25

hours I get every day. And. Then

12:27

hold myself to an account. So. The

12:30

end of every single day. I

12:33

open a spreadsheet and that spreadsheet has three

12:35

cells and allies and that's for the day.

12:37

the first thing. It's just a simple accounting

12:40

of what happened that day. A: Where

12:42

did my time go? What'd I do? What

12:44

the etc can you give his? sorry to

12:46

interrupt But this is the stuff I most.

12:48

What might a description for the day? Much

12:51

like is it three sentences for senses

12:53

Would might it's sort in Florida depends on

12:55

me. I say the very best days don't

12:57

have much in it at all. They are.

13:00

Got. Up early. Two. Hours

13:02

of really great creative work

13:04

for us with Joanne! Five

13:06

hours creative work. Work

13:08

out map. Three. Hours A

13:11

creative work. Enjoyed. Dinner With

13:13

Joanne? That I mean, That's

13:15

like a great day so but other days are

13:18

full of lots of other choppy things and so

13:20

what I tend to do is to try to

13:22

capture a bit. Of. What happened

13:24

with sleep? What happened with the

13:26

main tasks of the day? If

13:29

there were some really interesting conversation said

13:31

happened or something that hidden, those all

13:33

know those. Their. Markers so that

13:35

I can always go back and observe with

13:37

you. Our use those and a minute because

13:39

I actually do these correlations with all of

13:42

that. And then the second cell is the

13:44

number of creative hours I got that day.

13:46

Now there's no rule about how many. You.

13:48

Get in a day. Sometimes they're zero and

13:51

sometimes they can be nine or ten

13:53

which would be huge number, but then it

13:55

calculates back over the last three and six

13:57

five days. And the march.

14:00

Which. I don't think I've

14:02

missed for well over thirty years, and I

14:04

hope they hit for a lot longer now.

14:07

Is. Every single three hundred

14:09

and sixty five day cycle. Every

14:12

single one. Every. Single day.

14:15

With. You calculate fact the last

14:17

three hundred and sixty five days,

14:19

the total number of creative hours

14:22

must exceed one thousand. No.

14:25

Matter. What? It.

14:28

Doesn't matter if you're set. It doesn't

14:30

matter if there's other stuff is like a

14:32

thousand creative hours a year as a minimum

14:34

base. Why they can be above that? That's

14:36

fine, but never once there can be a

14:38

single day. In any three hundred

14:40

and sixty five day cycle, January two

14:43

to January Two July, Twenty two to

14:45

July Twenty two, September nine to September.

14:47

Nice. Doesn't matter. Always. Has

14:49

to be about the thousand creative elves and

14:51

you watch it And I put on the

14:53

whiteboard here at the lab. The

14:56

three months pay see, take the last

14:58

three months multiplied hopes for the six

15:00

months pace and then the current Three

15:02

Sixty thought. And that is a way

15:04

to kind of monitor if I start

15:06

saying that those numbers start to go

15:08

down. I'll change my behavior

15:10

in some as I have a big buffer and

15:12

sometimes I don't. And. The idea

15:14

is if you stay with that. Eventually

15:17

you're going to have worked. There,

15:19

there's a third sell that I put in

15:21

there that most people don't know as much

15:24

about. The people know about the hours

15:26

things somewhat. All. Of us have.

15:28

Dark times, difficult times. All of us have

15:31

good times, right? But here's an interesting thing

15:33

I notice, which is that if you're kind

15:35

of going through of punk, It's

15:37

hollers your whole life. And

15:40

he tend to think your whole life as a

15:42

funky because you're looking through that lens. And

15:45

so I thought. Well, He'll. But actually

15:47

I see like my life really pretty good.

15:50

But when you're in that other place, it

15:52

doesn't feel that with. And so what

15:54

I started to do As I started creating a code.

15:57

Which. Is plus two plus one Zero

15:59

Mind One Minus Two. In.

16:01

The key on all this by the ways you

16:04

have to do it everyday in real time you

16:06

can't like five days later, look back and say

16:08

how did I feel that day and that what?

16:10

This is a totally subjective. How

16:12

quality was the day at what was

16:14

it was a plus. Two was a

16:16

super positive day. This is emotionally speak

16:18

exactly. Just just like was a great

16:21

day. A. Plus two as a just a

16:23

great day. Doesn't mean it

16:25

wasn't There may not have been a really difficult they

16:27

might have been a day of a really hard rock

16:29

climb, might have been a day of really hard writing.

16:32

Felt really good, quite and might have been

16:34

a day of an intense conversation, but really

16:36

meaningful with a friend or something. But the

16:38

adds up to is a plus. Two, Plus.

16:41

One is another positive Zero is

16:43

ill my us once kind of

16:45

of neptune negative. And. Minus Two

16:47

is built a bad day. And. He put

16:49

it in for for you. Go to bed. I.

16:51

Would ask you to him right now seventeen

16:54

days ago or even five days ago to

16:56

give the score. You gonna be distorted by

16:58

how you're feeling today? Oh for sure

17:00

I'll be right. Yeah, me memory is yes,

17:02

people with the eight two days ago there's

17:04

a off by forty percent of it's present

17:06

calories for sure. So I wrote it down

17:08

and now I start to have a got

17:10

the Creative Hours March which is it's kind

17:12

of discipline in service of creativity and it's

17:14

were what was right. It just stays with

17:17

me cause way it's eminently you never get

17:19

a break from it. But that other has

17:21

proved to be incredibly useful for me. Because.

17:23

Now what you can do a sort the spreadsheet. And.

17:26

You can say. Over. The last five years,

17:28

what's going on and all the plus two days. Oh,

17:31

and over the last guy. That's where

17:33

the descriptions common. Yeah. Exactly

17:35

And over the last five years,

17:38

What's going on in the money?

17:40

The students. And now as

17:42

I navigate, is kind of like the simplex

17:44

method in operations research where you find optimal

17:46

by never really knowing that optimal is ahead

17:48

of time. You do it by a series

17:50

of iterative steps of the next best up.

17:53

Hope on keep explain though. I'm

17:56

from Long Island to simply six minutes did you

17:58

do to play with? That was when. Then there's

18:00

are. So my undergraduate was a

18:02

thing called mathematical sciences or with

18:05

a heavy dose of philosophy and

18:07

math Science has was up to

18:09

mathematics, Computer science, Statistics, And.

18:11

Operations Research and an Operation Research. There's

18:13

a method developed by Guy named George

18:16

Danzig called the Simplest Method and essentially

18:18

the idea is said if you're really

18:20

trying to find the optimal answer to

18:22

a multibillion problem where there's lots and

18:24

lots of variables. Even

18:26

the biggest computers couldn't basically do a

18:29

giant spreadsheet and sort through just too

18:31

many permutations. And what he showed was

18:33

under certain conditions. All

18:36

you have to do is find the

18:38

local optimum like what's the best next

18:40

step right and then you to reset

18:42

and then what's the next best step

18:44

and that he showed that under certain

18:46

conditions. That is mathematically guaranteed

18:48

to navigate you to the optimal and

18:50

point. And that was the simplex method.

18:53

As I understand I'm is there was

18:55

thirty four years ago when as in

18:57

the class but so I've always had

18:59

that idea. Might so can navigate step

19:01

by step. And so

19:03

I think about it as a navigating life.

19:06

I want more of the things

19:08

that creates a plus tombs. And

19:11

less of the things they create. The

19:13

minus twos: But the difference that

19:15

help me as I know what they are.

19:17

Not that and that wipes over per week

19:19

and do a simple more of this, less

19:22

of that. Said. More of

19:24

this, less of that makes any say. makes

19:26

perfect sense. What are some of the patterns

19:28

that you sent for either the Do More

19:30

column or the Do must. For.

19:33

Your sins. So. When I look

19:35

at those patterns I would say. On

19:37

the plus, choose. They are

19:40

are. Almost two contradictory

19:42

com polis. Like. Contradictory.

19:44

but they're just really different flavors. A

19:47

one is. The. Solitude

19:49

of. Really hard work.

19:53

And sometimes one of my favorite days

19:55

will be. I. Get Up!

19:57

I never leave the house. And.

20:00

And. I. Basically get to

20:02

just lose myself. In

20:04

the research. Or. In the writing. Or.

20:07

In the making sense of things as

20:09

a very incredible simplicity of the dead.

20:11

I'm sixty one now and I think

20:14

about what comes next away and ten.

20:17

To. Keep creating. I want to stay in

20:19

some versions that march for really long time.

20:21

My role models of all done. That. But

20:23

I think about life. As having

20:25

three. Three. Things at least

20:28

I think a really important one

20:30

of them is increasing simplicity. Just

20:32

sure simplicity to his time in

20:34

flow states. And posts a

20:36

Saudi easy and the third his time

20:38

with people I love. And so when

20:40

I look at those plus tubes a

20:42

lot of the days would be days

20:44

of high simplicity. Not much happened, are

20:46

very few moving parts. But

20:48

a lot of the hard work and

20:50

closed and I might have been writing

20:52

or during a concept for or creating

20:54

something or me just your last in

20:56

the war or rock climbing from more

20:58

rock climbing Exactly exactly. It's arduous, but

21:00

your loss of it. Those. Are

21:03

great. The other though for me is

21:05

the time with people I love and.

21:07

The. Other Dimension. While I wouldn't describe

21:09

myself as a highly social type person,

21:12

I love the solitude of the hard

21:14

work. The. Other side is the

21:16

people in my life and there are many

21:18

I've gray, sounds. Really? Great friends

21:20

that many decades. Friends. Friends:

21:23

Back to third grade. Seventh grade. All

21:25

my college roommates. I'm in my personal

21:27

band of brothers. I mean, as friends

21:29

and my wife remarries idiot years, cubs

21:32

engaged for days or for first date.

21:35

For the hype, your first date. Yes,

21:37

That's true he now has. Okay, we might

21:39

come back to that. We live by the

21:42

but the fisher thing is. When.

21:44

You have those days where you're.

21:47

Really present. And. Engaged

21:49

with people you really love.

21:52

Those. Are plus two days. He made a

21:54

of accomplish anything or in the case of climbing it

21:56

might be that I. Went. Out Jaime

21:58

with one of my best friends and. I

22:00

don't even necessarily remember the Klein

22:02

it was with a friend and

22:04

so my first two days are

22:06

either very solitude or very connected.

22:09

but connected to people that have

22:11

this long and during. Really,

22:13

really wonderful relationships and watch

22:15

and those make positives. A

22:18

Love it. What is the bug? But

22:20

could you please elaborate on the bug

22:22

books? I think a lot of us

22:24

I certainly was one of them. We

22:27

struggle in our twenties to get clarity

22:29

about how to deploy ourselves in the

22:31

world. Has everything up

22:33

until you finish. High

22:35

school, college or graduate school would have sent a

22:37

structured you don't really have to think about it.

22:40

The site I I gotta figure out how to

22:42

do this. math problems or whatever but life is

22:44

a really like that and then all the sudden

22:46

he had lives and life as much more ambiguous

22:48

and so you're trying to navigate through it. I

22:51

like a lot of people was kind of feel

22:53

figure out how best to pour myself. In my

22:55

twenties I had multiple things that. Help

22:57

me do that. One. Of A let

22:59

me just introduce a concept. okay and then

23:02

I'll tie it into the bug. but this

23:04

is how I challenge young people to think

23:06

about. It was a concept and good to

23:08

great called the Hedgehog Concept and the Idea

23:10

of The Hedgehog Concept. Is to

23:12

sort of simplify down. was founded by

23:15

setting companies were found that. When.

23:17

They really focus on one or a few

23:19

really big things and made very disciplined decisions.

23:21

Over time those would accumulate and begin to

23:24

build some real results and eventually what would

23:26

become the fly will affect which will chat

23:28

about a little bit later. And.

23:31

The Hedgehog concept is the intersection of

23:33

three circles for company that's doing what

23:35

you're deeply passionate about. Because if you're

23:37

not passionate about it, you can't in

23:40

two or long enough to really, really

23:42

do something exceptional. The. Second circle

23:44

is what you can be the best in

23:46

the world as and if you can't see

23:48

the best in the world at it, leave

23:50

it to others. So for example, A

23:53

doesn't mean being big, right? You could

23:55

have a truly great local restaurant. Never

23:57

going to be big, but is the

23:59

absolute. Best in the world at a

24:01

particular thing that it doesn't It's specific

24:04

community and know large company could come

24:06

in and be better than them at

24:08

that. That's very hedgehog even though it's

24:10

not thick. And then the third is

24:12

that you have an economic engine and

24:14

you know how works. and so if

24:16

you have the intersection of those three.

24:19

Are. Energy. It's going to go

24:21

into things that were passionate about. He

24:23

and. We. Can be the best of the

24:25

world that he and. A driver economic

24:27

engine. You're in your hedgehog. Now.

24:31

There's a personal analogy to the Hedgehog.

24:33

And as gets back to bugbots, I'm

24:35

not a big believer in sort of

24:37

thinking of traditional careers. I'm a big

24:39

believer in thinking of buying your hedgehogs

24:41

and then really building fly will momentum

24:43

with that overtime. And so is that

24:45

the personal version of the Hedgehog. Is

24:48

again doing Circle One what you're passionate

24:50

about in love. To do The second

24:52

circle isn't best in the world because.

24:55

If. You said what, I can't be the best orthopedic surgeon.

24:57

I won't do it. While that we know we have one

24:59

right? That's not good for. It's

25:02

what you are encoded for And

25:04

what you are encoded for is

25:06

different. Than. What you're good

25:08

at. So. When I went to college I

25:11

thought I was going to be a mathematician. Because.

25:14

I was one of those kids that was good at math. That's

25:17

why metered math sciences. But then

25:19

I met. At Stanford.

25:22

The. People who are genetically

25:24

in coded for math. There.

25:27

Were not be I was good at math. They

25:29

were included for math. Is.

25:32

Like being an athlete where you thought

25:34

you were a good athlete till you

25:36

met the incredible natural gifted athlete you

25:38

realize I'd never see to spin to

25:40

the basket like he did. For.

25:42

I could never see to put the ball. They

25:44

are running down the field playing soccer the way

25:46

she do. I just wouldn't have seen it. Was

25:49

a gift that seeing coding. As

25:52

we have to find which are encoded for

25:54

as distinct from. Just what you're good

25:56

at. Than the third is you

25:58

have an economic engine. And you

26:00

can fund your goals, your objectives, the things you're trying

26:02

to get, that when you have all three of those.

26:04

I'm passionate about it. I'm in toted for it, and

26:07

I have an economic engine that it. Now you're under

26:09

Hedgehogs know when you're in your twenties, there's all these

26:11

sort of. Paint by Numbers kids

26:13

approach to life. right? You can be

26:15

a professor. You can be a businessman. It can be

26:17

a lawyer. You can be whatever, right? And the nice

26:20

thing about a paint by numbers kid is the

26:22

fc don't. Have to think about it

26:24

that much. Because. As long as

26:26

you stay in the lines and you pay, you can end

26:28

up with a nice picture at the end. But.

26:30

The only way to paint a masterpiece is

26:32

to start with a boy campus. And

26:34

that is sort of beginning out those three

26:36

circles and then making your own unique series

26:39

of decisions consistent with the hedgehog of those

26:41

who circles and they may or may not

26:43

fall into a traditional. Fucking.

26:46

A So I was trying to find my way. And

26:49

I started this little book and it

26:51

was inspired by a mentor number Shell

26:53

Myers who I'm suggested that what I

26:56

do as I study myself like a

26:58

bug. And imagine with

27:00

dispassionate objectivity you should going some

27:02

lies. You're. Making notes

27:04

where you're observing, The.

27:06

Bug called true. That's

27:10

very scientifically clinically. And

27:12

so I remember. I. Was working at

27:14

H P for top years. had a graduate

27:16

school. For a company it's time for

27:19

sure. but I wasn't really constructed to be in

27:21

a large company. Such sign A navigate My Way.

27:23

And. One day I had to give a

27:25

presentation on how network computers work and

27:28

this was back in the Nineteen eighties

27:30

was his early on in there. And.

27:32

I had to figure out how to communicate the

27:34

everyone. Really a essence and aren't

27:37

our team of how network computer in was gonna

27:39

work and how would sit together and I have

27:41

that sort of conceptualize had that I had to

27:43

teach it and show it all. The some I

27:45

had this day was like wow. That

27:48

was really fond of figured out to figure out

27:50

to conceptualize it to figure out how to put

27:52

it in concepts. everybody can understand the shirt with

27:54

everyone to teach his. My. Third

27:56

book. When. I'm than writing

27:58

the bug Gm. We.

28:00

We love making sense of something

28:02

difficult. Breaking. It down into

28:05

understandable pieces and teaching it to

28:07

others. It was an observation

28:09

in the journal. The other

28:12

thing is might be silly like the bugs jim.

28:15

We had really a languish.

28:18

If he had to spend a lot of time

28:21

and senseless meetings. This.

28:23

Is not good for us and

28:25

so it constantly observing and then

28:27

eventually that allowed me to it.

28:29

That was that sort of observation.

28:31

clinical. That. Allow me to eventually sort

28:33

of head back to teaching of Stanford when

28:36

I was thirty. Which. Then became

28:38

really the start of the real jordan

28:40

of what happened. With. The

28:42

book book did you? Write

28:44

things in the bug book each evening.

28:47

did you do it? Keep it in

28:49

your back pocket. And when there was

28:51

an outlying, impactful or emotionally notable event

28:54

you'd write in, it moves. The. Stride

28:56

retire used as if there was any. At

28:59

that time or more now. just kind

29:01

of in of coding we described earlier

29:03

because I'm one of those really lucky

29:05

people that I found this suffer laden.

29:07

I remember. The moment

29:10

I said. The. Classroom at Stanford

29:12

burst teaching the this is Not worship

29:14

Last I just knew. I'm

29:17

home. I'm in the three circles or as

29:19

his I know was going to guide and

29:21

subversion. Some. Permutation of this probably

29:23

for the rest of my life and I

29:25

just knew was that until then I had

29:27

to cut to get to where I can

29:29

see that. And so for those

29:31

years I would say if I better

29:33

for went back and lot of I

29:35

a haven't done that that in my

29:38

basement or batches that five, five out

29:40

of seven days. There's reasonably thorough introduce

29:42

in there and those injuries would also

29:44

be things like noting, sort of projecting

29:46

out A lot of that was often

29:48

what I would describe as pattern recognition

29:51

where. He. Had no be noted

29:53

things but I would also always be

29:55

scanning for people. That. I could

29:57

see them people, what older than me

29:59

and. Questions I can somehow.

30:02

Picture. The some version

30:04

of what they do

30:06

somehow resonated. I. Would

30:08

note that. What? Was it about it resonated?

30:10

Why does I look up to that person on

30:12

spend a lot of it's? not just on my

30:15

own experiences, but also. Very much

30:17

on people that I admired, not people from

30:19

afar. People I knew and observed. Not.

30:22

For their achievements. but something about.

30:24

The quality of what they were.

30:27

And that was of also a big

30:29

part of that observation proposes. Give

30:31

us. One of the things

30:34

whatever comes to mind that you learned from

30:36

Peter Drucker. One. Is don't

30:38

make a hundred decisions.

30:41

When one will do. And

30:44

the idea of that is the

30:46

Peter believes that. You tend to

30:48

think that you're making a lot of different decisions. But.

30:51

That actually, if he kind of stripping away, you

30:53

can begin to realize. Also. Lot

30:55

of decisions that looks like different decisions are

30:57

really part of the same category. Of

31:00

a decision. And. That what you

31:02

want to do is to then be able

31:04

to say no of and make one big

31:06

decision that will be replicated many many times.

31:09

Because it kind of conceptually captures. And

31:11

so for example one.version might be in

31:13

my own case, right? Am sure you

31:15

encounter this to get lots of wonderful,

31:17

interesting invitations Things they don't do this

31:19

or to go do that or speak

31:22

at this or whatever. and they're wonderful.

31:24

I mean never. Been. Grateful for

31:26

those opportunities, but you have to be

31:28

very selective about what you do. And

31:31

so as I was struggling with Hottie a the

31:33

side which to do. I. When

31:35

you get a se no, most of amidst

31:37

they ought to look like a series of

31:39

individual decisions, but that actually know there's actually

31:41

a couple of really big decisions. Is it

31:43

a great teaching moment? Potentially. And will you

31:45

learn something? That's. Like I met

31:47

a decision. And. Now you can

31:50

sort of strip away. Actually,

31:52

the question is, is it a great

31:54

teaching moment? Possibility. Or is it

31:56

not is very different than should. I go to

31:58

Austin and do this event. Or should I

32:00

meet with this person? They look individual but

32:02

they're really part of a whole. That's one

32:05

and you can think of that is your

32:07

the simple thing like. What? You were.

32:09

From. A god thousand different. A citizenry could

32:12

make one big decision to wear the same

32:14

thing all the time. I suppose that seconds

32:16

is and I've shared with with some others,

32:18

but it's so powerful. At

32:21

the end of that day with Peter I

32:23

asked her. How I'd pay him

32:25

back. And he said

32:27

at first. I. Had already paid him

32:29

back as he had world. And

32:31

yeah remember this was when we were

32:33

doing the Thelma and they will see

32:36

really scared crisis we didn't notice is

32:38

going to work and I was launching

32:40

out to try to do this self

32:42

directed path and and genuinely scared. And

32:45

Peter said to me said. I do

32:47

have a request. That. You change

32:49

your question little bit. It.

32:51

Seems to me he's been a lot of time. worrying.

32:54

About if you're going to survive. While.

32:56

You'll probably serve ice. And.

33:00

You spend too much time thinking about. If.

33:02

You'll be successful. It's

33:05

the wrong question. The

33:07

question is. How to be

33:10

useful? And that was the last

33:12

thing he said that day. He. Just got

33:14

out of the current close the

33:16

Door one of those with the

33:19

Peter Drucker Mike drops. This article

33:21

has a lot of have a

33:23

cat as but you know I

33:26

find that I go back to

33:28

that over and over and over

33:31

again. Just.

33:35

A quick thanks to one of our sponsors and will be right

33:37

back to the show. This. Episode is

33:39

brought to you by eg. one the daily

33:41

some decent all nutritional supplements as supports Whole

33:44

Body Health said you get as a lot

33:46

What I would take if I could only

33:48

take one supplement in. The true answer is

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ton of basis. I usually drink it in

33:54

the mornings and frequently take their travel packs

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a you are easy. with

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your first subscription purchase. So learn more,

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check it out. Go

34:23

to drinkag1.com/Tim. That's

34:27

drinkag1, the number

34:29

one. drinkag1.com/Tim. Last

34:32

time, drinkag1.com. And.

34:40

Now. As. A

34:42

polymath professor who changed tim his

34:45

life. Find. Out how

34:47

this seventeen year veteran of the tech

34:49

industry. Former. Member of the

34:51

Us House of Representatives. And.

34:53

Ivy League Educated became one

34:56

of tim most important mentors.

35:00

Add welcome to the show. How. It's

35:02

going to be here with you

35:04

tube I think back to. The.

35:06

Spring Semester.

35:09

Of two thousand. When.

35:11

You contacted me after all

35:14

of the other students had

35:16

registered for my course then

35:18

made such her an impressive

35:21

please to be able to

35:23

and role in the course

35:25

committing if you were and

35:28

are all that. You. Would

35:30

clean the block boards, clean

35:32

the erasers. Do whatever it

35:34

took to make my life.

35:36

Easier. And I almost

35:39

cried when I heard

35:41

those words. And you

35:43

took the course and.

35:46

I'm. So proud of what you've done! Over

35:49

the past nineteen years, I don't.

35:51

Blame. The course for your success

35:53

but. I do blame the air

35:56

and role in the course. For.

35:58

Our friendship. And you. Let

36:00

me so much. From the very beginning

36:02

I wanted to take the course for

36:04

many, many reasons. This was Yeley for

36:07

Ninety One Hi Tech Entrepreneurship which was

36:09

in the Electrical Engineering department and the

36:11

O R F department which I can

36:14

never remember the actual full name for

36:16

from operations and resorts around and Research

36:18

and Financial Engineer Or we go Now

36:20

I have no. Business.

36:23

Whatsoever being in any engineering

36:25

school but at the time.

36:28

The. Princeton. Courses:

36:30

Undergraduate courses. Were.

36:32

Only very recently being voted on

36:34

by students. This is a very

36:37

new things. As for Yelp and

36:39

so on, And. One

36:41

of the standouts was this new course

36:44

hi Tech Entrepreneurship taught by Professor Shell

36:46

and I really wanted like many people

36:48

to be part of this course and

36:50

that when I finally was accepted to

36:53

the chorus and began learning emerald one

36:55

point I was cleaning the black words

36:57

and a cleaning the erasers and he

36:59

said to me at have you ever

37:02

this he said tim don't get to

37:04

go to cleaning the arrests. And

37:07

there's a lot of direct. Teaching

37:10

and a lot of indirect teaching. Just

37:12

observing you as you interact with your

37:14

students and the world. And there's certain

37:17

things. That's. When

37:19

I describe you to my friends and I

37:21

do that very often and a lot of

37:23

your students and mean you're just telling me

37:25

before we begin recording. Stay.

37:27

In touch with you And these are

37:29

people from forty fifty years ago. It's

37:32

remarkable. And one of the

37:34

things I throw in that was not in

37:36

the by I read was figure skating. Could.

37:39

You please tell us about. Your background

37:41

with figure skating. I grew

37:43

up in Omaha, Nebraska and

37:45

we were fortunate to have

37:48

an indoor. Skating. Rink.

37:51

Were. Professional ice hockey

37:53

team played. The. Omaha

37:55

nights. they were of probably a

37:57

farm team for one of the

37:59

and shell. Hockey. Teams.

38:02

And my mother took me to

38:05

that ice rank one. I was

38:07

about seven years old. And

38:10

I really enjoy the challenge.

38:12

And I remember coming back

38:14

from one session when I

38:16

was just beginning to skate

38:18

and I said mom, I

38:20

really had a good day

38:22

to day and see. So

38:24

what was so special about?

38:26

As I said, I only

38:28

sell forty times this assassins

38:30

time. From what you might

38:32

call small beginnings, I began

38:34

to get more proficient and

38:36

more interested. And in those

38:38

days, figure skating. Was. Really,

38:41

the figure skating were There

38:43

were precise patterns on clean

38:45

eyes with turns and loops

38:47

that you had to perform

38:49

in order to pass certain

38:52

tests. And. I pass the

38:54

pre test and then I passed the

38:56

first task in the second test. And

38:59

at that point I was

39:01

kind of on my way,

39:03

but I was only available

39:06

during the winter. so when

39:08

I was thirteen I began

39:10

spending summers away from Omaha

39:12

were there were ice rinks

39:14

and continue to train and

39:16

continues a pass tests. And

39:19

when I was sixteen years

39:21

old. I had passed

39:23

the six test and I

39:25

qualified for the national championships

39:27

in men's singles in a

39:29

a lower group not the

39:32

the world class group but

39:34

a lower rope and I

39:36

was also ice dancing was

39:38

a partner. And. And Nineteen

39:40

Fifty six, we won the

39:42

Silver Dance championship. In the

39:44

mid certain sections there were

39:46

three sections in the country,

39:48

went to the national championships

39:50

and then of my senior

39:52

year in high school, nineteen

39:54

Fifty seven a gallon I

39:56

skated in the National championships

39:58

in Berkeley, Calif Porn I

40:00

never was a winner. But.

40:03

It was a special experience

40:05

to meet a lot of

40:08

people throughout the country going

40:10

to these championships and I

40:12

still stay in touch with

40:14

my dance partner and a

40:16

gentleman who I competed against.

40:19

And. Er Single championship. He was

40:21

a big part of my life

40:23

tomb and. And as

40:25

I think about it. The. Hours

40:28

said I spent. Training.

40:32

Getting. Up at six Am

40:34

are actually five thirty am.

40:36

Being. On the ice and

40:38

Omaha at six am in

40:41

a cold winter Nebraska winter

40:43

and then skating and the

40:45

evening to fitting in home

40:47

or school. To. Prepare

40:50

for one competition where if

40:52

you did well enough you

40:54

could go to the national

40:56

Championship. It's. Hot me

40:58

as a power. The value.

41:01

Of. Practice.

41:03

Of dedication. Of

41:06

persistence and. Determination.

41:10

Those are valuable life lessons

41:12

and character building lesson. So.

41:15

When. People ask me why or how do

41:17

I prepare to be a leader or to.

41:20

Change. The world. It's.

41:23

Through. Learning those values. You.

41:25

Don't get a quick return.

41:28

Creating. Value for the world's

41:30

you get a quick return doing

41:33

something that doesn't matter. But.

41:35

If you're going to make a

41:37

difference in the society, changing the

41:40

world for the better, you better

41:42

be prepared for that. A long

41:44

journey. You. To.

41:47

Me is one of your stand

41:49

out characteristics. Has preparation,

41:52

You. Fear meticulous preparation. I remember

41:55

this because to the mind

41:57

people listening as we said, I

41:59

was. Going up to. Potentially do

42:01

my chalk board duty in my eraser

42:03

duty and so on so I would

42:05

arise to yell he for ninety one

42:07

early. And. You'd be arranging

42:10

the name cards see at placards

42:12

for the students which is not

42:14

com and at Princeton eat of

42:16

the name card C B arranging

42:18

shares and reviewing potentially. The.

42:21

T study materials and

42:23

I don't remember. Any

42:25

T A's and he teaching assistants for

42:28

that class so could you talk about.

42:30

How you thought about preparation outside

42:32

of say figure skating and did

42:35

that come from your parents were

42:37

did that attention to detail? Bus.

42:40

For the competition, whether that's competition, a

42:42

business, sports, or otherwise orders getting up

42:44

in front of a class of students.

42:46

He. Talked to were that comes from

42:48

and how you think about preparation. Well,

42:52

I was a strong believer and

42:54

Murphy's Law. Whatever.

42:57

Can go wrong, Logo wrong. And.

43:00

So. I. Would come

43:02

to the classroom typically forty

43:04

five minutes early. Make

43:07

sure that the projector was

43:09

working and sometimes that wasn't.

43:12

Enough and so are. We had

43:14

time then to call the audio

43:16

visual people and they'd come over

43:18

and. Get. It fixed rather

43:20

than showing up right at the

43:22

time the class starts and then

43:25

finding that there are problems that

43:27

disrupted the flow of the class.

43:30

I say for Benjamin Franklin

43:32

who wrote. Failing.

43:34

To prepare. It's

43:36

very important to me not

43:39

to be surprised by things

43:41

go wrong and the way

43:43

that you prevent that is

43:45

through preparation. And making

43:47

sure everything is the way that

43:49

it needs to be for success.

43:52

As far as the classes

43:54

concerns, even though I had

43:56

taught. The. Lessons the

43:58

sessions many men. The times

44:00

I usually spend. Two. To

44:03

three hours prior to

44:05

each class. Prepare and

44:07

again I viewed. My.

44:09

Classes which were.

44:12

Taught. By the case Method of

44:14

teaching and learning where. Students.

44:16

Would read about an actual

44:18

company situation and put themselves

44:20

in. The. Position of the.

44:23

Ceo. Or the founder of

44:25

the technical. Person. And describe

44:28

what to do. I would ask questions

44:30

and they would. Give. The

44:32

answers. I felt

44:34

that that that approach

44:36

to teaching and learning

44:38

putting someone in the

44:40

position of the. Founder.

44:43

Of the person who had to

44:45

achieve the result rather than just

44:47

listening and learning and reading from

44:49

a book, Would. Not only

44:51

help to learn but also

44:53

build the confidence that they

44:55

could do that. Kind. Of

44:58

Job. Well in order

45:00

to make that experience that.

45:03

Classroom experience. Were.

45:07

The best! It.

45:09

Was like a performance feel I

45:12

owe would come in and I

45:14

didn't know exactly how the discussion

45:16

would evolve. But. I

45:18

knew the lessons that would come

45:21

out of it, and I'd find

45:23

a way regardless of what the

45:25

students would say to convey those

45:28

lessons through their. Words.

45:31

The. Keys Method. Is. Something

45:33

I have to talk have had more about

45:36

because my first exposure to the case method.

45:39

Was. In your class, And.

45:42

It's a message that as I understand

45:44

as is used to Harvard Business School.

45:46

Also at Stanford Graduate School Business.

45:49

When. I also found so appealing about

45:51

the keys method. Is seat.

45:54

As. A student have these

45:56

short modules is key studies

45:58

and. They would often

46:01

be a part one with a

46:03

cliffhanger, so that module one would

46:05

end with some type of dilemma

46:07

or disaster or big decision and

46:09

you didn't have the conclusion he

46:11

didn't have the answer meaning what

46:13

actually happened in that particular case

46:15

and it allowed you to. Think.

46:18

For yourself but are also gave you

46:20

an opportunity to speak to the class,

46:22

to speak to you and to be

46:24

assertive. Also I have because you would

46:26

have I remember at least in my

46:29

class many differing opinions, some of which

46:31

were polar. Opposites and

46:33

is struck me as

46:36

a pragmatic way to.

46:39

Allow people to be active in the

46:41

way that they're going to have to

46:43

be active roster, ultimately going to be

46:45

entrepreneurs. When. You're.

46:48

Teaching and Learning. About.

46:51

Starting enterprises are creating

46:54

something new. You.

46:56

Learn by doing. The. Case

46:58

method helps and that projects

47:00

that are real. Do. That.

47:03

One of the prince and

47:05

graduates so for years ago.

47:08

Road. Her senior thesis

47:10

on. Can. Entrepreneurship

47:13

be taught. Or

47:15

is it something you're born with? And

47:18

there are articles that have been

47:20

written that. College courses

47:22

and entrepreneurship are a waste of

47:25

time. They don't

47:27

matter. So. And

47:29

twenty fifteen when she was working

47:31

on this. I. Created

47:34

an online survey instrument,

47:37

Which. I set out to

47:39

all sixteen hundreds. Princeton.

47:42

The students that I had had

47:44

and my classes over thirty one

47:46

semesters. We. Had to

47:48

cut off the responses in order

47:51

for to meet her thesis deadline

47:53

after four hundred. Responses.

47:55

Of the sixteen hundred, But

47:58

of those first sixteen. Hundred

48:00

responses. Are hundred

48:03

and sixty had been founders

48:05

of companies. Among the

48:07

survey questions or was the

48:10

question what? Princeton.

48:12

Experiences have helped to

48:14

and choosing your life

48:16

pass and succeeding. In.

48:18

Words: Who. Pursued. And

48:21

of the. Hundred and

48:23

sixty founders. Ninety. Five

48:26

percent said it was the course.

48:29

Had made the difference and. I.

48:32

Think what it was, it's not

48:34

so much what. They. Learned

48:37

and detail but rather. Pointing.

48:40

Out to the students that this

48:42

is a possible life pass. That.

48:44

You can create something from

48:46

scratch and create value and

48:48

work great satisfaction you get

48:51

from there. it also and

48:53

I attribute this is the

48:55

case method. Gave.

48:57

Students the confidence they could do it.

49:00

They'd read the case and say i'm smart

49:02

as that person. I know if I could

49:04

do that too. And I

49:06

tried to choose the case. It

49:08

is worth youth fall. Founders.

49:11

Rather than old. People.

49:13

Like me. Then

49:15

there were some tools. That

49:18

techniques that they learned from it.

49:21

But. I believe that every

49:23

one is born with the

49:25

desire to do something beyond

49:28

themselves. And. As

49:30

an entrepreneur. Starting.

49:32

Something from scratch making a

49:35

real. Impact. In

49:37

the world. And that was. It.

49:39

Fulfills that desire to

49:41

do something. Meaningful.

49:43

Beyond themselves. Is.

49:45

That would an entrepreneur is T You

49:47

mean if you were to define entrepreneurs

49:50

that someone who build something from scratch,

49:52

whatever that might be had, you'd think

49:54

about the term entrepreneur our A you

49:56

probably remember the stem from. The

49:59

course that. I. Assert

50:01

Third, entrepreneurship isn't about

50:03

starting companies. Entrepreneurship

50:06

isn't approach to life.

50:09

And you can be an entrepreneur in

50:11

any saying. It's. About starting

50:14

something from scratch. It's about

50:16

making good things happen that

50:18

hadn't been done before. It's

50:20

a combination of innovation, A

50:23

lot of people get ideas. And

50:26

implementation. And. That

50:29

second part. Implementation is

50:31

the most important. A

50:34

lot of people. Say.

50:37

Wouldn't. That be nice. If. We

50:39

could do this and that's as far as

50:41

it goes. But. Entrepreneurs

50:43

say. Wouldn't. That

50:45

be nice. If we could

50:47

do this, And. Then they do it.

50:50

I wanted it. To. Safety things and

50:52

underscore a couple things. The first

50:54

is that they're only two courses.

50:57

I still have all the notes

50:59

from. Meaning. Courses.

51:02

Classes. I took his undergrad that I

51:04

still have three ring binders which contain

51:07

all the notes from one was the

51:09

literature fact the John Mcphee. And

51:11

the other was yeley for now ones that

51:13

are still have all of this notes and.

51:16

It. Strikes me that. The

51:19

first from a tool perspective if people

51:21

want to find. T. Studies that

51:24

are used to places like. Harvard

51:26

Business School or Stanford so you can

51:28

actually find quite a few online. in

51:30

order them so I would encourage people

51:33

to look into that. The reason that

51:35

I have notes from those two classes

51:37

is I think in large part because.

51:40

I. Had and we're talking about this a little

51:42

bit earlier of very very difficult and dark

51:44

period in my life. Junior year.

51:47

And took some time off of school is very very

51:49

hard time for me. And. What I

51:51

sound in. The. Literature

51:54

fact and also a

51:56

particularly in high tech

51:58

entrepreneurship was. A

52:01

teaching and reinforcing of optimism.

52:04

Or. At which is very different from. Giving.

52:06

All of your students rose colored glasses you

52:09

are showing that I saw this to read.

52:11

Really Personally very helpful in his taste. A

52:13

lot of things go wrong. But. You

52:15

are able to show how people

52:17

figured it out and how they

52:20

learn to navigate around this. Thanks,

52:22

How do you think about if

52:24

you do the role of optimism?

52:26

In any of this, Well.

52:29

I'm. A Chronic Optimists. I.

52:32

Believe that that is important.

52:35

To. Doing things that haven't been done

52:37

before. You. Can

52:39

imagine all of the things

52:41

that can go wrong. And

52:45

I guess there's some value in

52:47

been a real Us. But.

52:50

I don't think you do things that. Have

52:52

been done before. And

52:55

succeed in that. By.

52:57

Be negative and focusing on the

53:00

and all of the things that

53:02

need to be done. Rather it's

53:04

having a vision. And then

53:07

committing to making a real. I.

53:09

With less that way. I

53:11

just look at the world. I.

53:13

Don't think through rose colored glasses know,

53:16

but I when when people say that's

53:18

gonna be hard. I.

53:20

Say that. It's. Gonna be more fun.

53:23

Than. Because doing something that's

53:25

hard. Is a lot more

53:27

fun than doing something that sees. How

53:31

did you. Ask two questions

53:33

as I'll start with the the one

53:35

that as well as first which is

53:37

when you are say. Twenty.

53:40

Years old. Fifteen or twenty Somewhere in that

53:43

range. What did you think you're going to

53:45

be when you grew up with? I know

53:47

exactly what I was gonna have it. I

53:49

was gonna be a Physicist. I came to

53:51

Princeton and nineteen fifty seven. With.

53:53

A plan to major in

53:56

physics. And then

53:58

in my soft porn. Here.

54:01

I. Discovered philosophy and I

54:04

saw at. This. Is

54:06

way cool stuff. And

54:08

I decided that I would major

54:11

in Philosophy with in those days

54:13

what was called a bridge program

54:15

with Physics. So. I took

54:17

all of the required courses in

54:20

physics. But. My department

54:22

was the philosophy department

54:24

by independent work both

54:26

as a junior and

54:29

senior or on subjects

54:31

that combined philosophy. And

54:33

physics. My. Senior

54:36

thesis. Was. Describing

54:38

what the German Philosopher Manual

54:41

can't theory of space and

54:43

time would have been had

54:45

he been born Fifty years

54:48

later and I had known

54:50

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity.

54:53

And I described in my

54:56

thesis, this is what pants

54:58

theory of Space and time.

55:00

What a ban. Unfortunately, he

55:02

didn't know General Relativity base

55:04

that on newtonian physics, but.

55:06

As it's presumptuous twenty one year

55:09

old I figured as I knew

55:11

what was inside cans head and

55:13

every just and own about Einstein

55:16

and and his there's. A

55:18

word. I had a different. Philosophy.

55:20

Of space and Time. That.

55:23

And Two dollars and Forty cents

55:26

or get your cup of coffee

55:28

at your favorite coffee shop. Said

55:31

you mention Einstein of existence and

55:34

certainly as a storied history and

55:36

some respects with physics of in

55:38

Einstein spent time. Not too

55:41

far away from where we're sitting

55:43

right now. And Richard Feynman than

55:45

others? Certainly it is. That's how

55:47

you ended up. Focusing.

55:49

On Princeton and Physics Was this

55:52

the history? Because at that

55:54

point on us or what specifically would have drawn

55:56

here. but is that what drew you to to

55:58

Princeton? Oh of starting from the. What

56:00

I was about Twelve. I. Was

56:02

an Einstein. Lover. Has

56:05

has sued say. I began

56:07

reading about his theories

56:09

own biographies and. So.

56:12

Forth and. So. I

56:14

applied to various

56:16

colleges. In. The

56:18

physics department, Engineering physics in

56:21

one case and physics and

56:23

only others. And. I

56:25

was accepted to all of those

56:27

schools. And. All of

56:30

them provided me with a

56:32

rather attractive. Scholarship.

56:36

Except Princeton. Princeton.

56:39

Road to me and said. You.

56:41

Can work in the dining hall

56:43

as a busboy. And.

56:46

I. Think I could make was. Twelve.

56:49

To fifteen hours a week.

56:51

Four hundred dollars a semester.

56:54

And. I chose Princeton because

56:56

I concluded that must be

56:59

the toughest schools. They're.

57:01

Not making a big deal out

57:03

of me and I wanna go

57:06

where it's most challenging. I've

57:08

never looked back. Did you end up

57:10

finding Princeton challenging? Oh. Wait

57:13

to challenging. That. Ended

57:15

my figure skating career. I.

57:17

Did not have the time

57:19

to continue to practice. I.

57:22

Tried to compete in my

57:24

freshman year in the Eastern

57:26

Championships and. Didn't. Do that

57:28

well. And I began to realize that.

57:30

I. Was gonna make as and. Looking

57:33

back, I don't know whether I would

57:35

have ever made the world team. But.

57:38

In Nineteen Sixty One. Many

57:41

of the. Skaters:

57:43

That I had either competed Worth

57:45

train, worse. By. Skating Coach:

57:48

All. Terrorist in a plane

57:50

crash. The. World Save on

57:53

their way to the World Championships

57:55

in Brussels, Belgium. In Nineteen

57:57

Sixty One. And we lost.

58:00

The whole. Generation.

58:02

Of world class figure

58:04

skaters. And. I don't

58:06

know whether I would have ever gotten to

58:08

that point, but. I'm glad I

58:11

made the choice as I did to go

58:13

to Princeton. To. Give up figure

58:15

skating. And a focus on.

58:18

What's. Led me to be here talking

58:20

to you. When. Did teaching

58:22

enter the picture? What happened after

58:25

teases paint a picture for us

58:27

after year undergraduate. Experience.

58:29

While I knew what I was

58:32

gonna do after I graduated from

58:34

Princeton, I had applied for and

58:37

was accepted to the Us. Navy

58:39

Officers Candidate School in Newport, Rhode

58:41

Island to begin my training in

58:44

September of Nineteen Sixty One. I.

58:47

Went. Back. Home to Omaha,

58:49

Nebraska. Worked in manual labor

58:51

on the night shift in

58:53

a can factory and in

58:55

late August was called to

58:57

Ford Omaha the be inducted

58:59

and to the Us Navy.

59:01

During that pre and ducks

59:03

interview I was as if

59:05

anything had happened to me

59:07

health wise sense. I applied.

59:10

In. February and had a physical their

59:12

own. I said well I broke

59:14

my leg and a rugby game

59:16

at Princeton in April, but it's

59:19

fine now. They. Didn't

59:21

take my word for it. They

59:23

ordered an x ray and concluded

59:25

it was up the Navy standards.

59:27

So I. Was. Unable to

59:29

enter o' sea as in

59:31

September of Nineteen Sixty One.

59:34

Very. Disappointed. I.

59:37

Did. Have an alternative! I had

59:39

applied to Stanford Business School

59:41

for the M B A

59:43

program. I. Only applied

59:46

to Stanford cause it. Only.

59:48

Had one hour say in

59:50

the application and all a

59:52

other sad three so of

59:54

i focused on Stanford for

59:56

that reason I had been

59:58

accepted and i never then

1:00:00

in the postcard. That.

1:00:03

Indicated that I was not

1:00:05

coming. So. I retrieve

1:00:07

the postcard santa down and

1:00:09

was in. My.

1:00:12

I'd say six days. My.

1:00:14

Whole life change from going

1:00:16

into the Navy to going

1:00:18

to California and or in

1:00:20

the N B A program.

1:00:24

I. Did not know. In

1:00:27

that split second in April when

1:00:29

I heard a crack. When.

1:00:31

I fell in the rugby game. That.

1:00:34

That would change my life

1:00:36

so dramatically. That's. Why

1:00:38

I tell people who asked me

1:00:40

about career planning. That.

1:00:43

Career. Planning is overrated.

1:00:46

You. Ask me the question. Know how did

1:00:48

you get into teaching? Virus.

1:00:51

In the N B A program

1:00:53

at Stanford University. And they're just

1:00:55

like. Philosophy. At

1:00:57

Princeton I discovered. Operations.

1:01:00

Research supplying mathematics

1:01:02

to real operating.

1:01:05

Business problems but operating problems

1:01:08

and general. As I said,

1:01:10

this is way cool off

1:01:13

and so rather than looking

1:01:15

for a job as I

1:01:18

was approached in my M

1:01:20

B A degree, I applied

1:01:22

for the Phd program to

1:01:25

pursue Operations research and after

1:01:27

my first year in the

1:01:30

Phd program. The.

1:01:32

Professor who had taught the

1:01:35

most popular second year M

1:01:37

B A course. Electronic

1:01:40

data processing. It

1:01:42

was the only course it's stand for business

1:01:44

school. third time that had anything to do

1:01:46

with computers. He's. Last,

1:01:49

unexpectedly. I went

1:01:51

to the day as a business school

1:01:53

and I said Mr. Dean, you have

1:01:55

a problem hundred. Second,

1:01:58

Year and Be A Student Signed. To

1:02:01

Take Business Three Sixty

1:02:03

Six Electronic Data Processing

1:02:05

This September. And. You don't

1:02:07

have anybody to teach. I

1:02:10

am the solution to your

1:02:12

problems ss I can teach

1:02:14

that course and they said

1:02:16

something like. Don't. Call us,

1:02:18

will call you. An.

1:02:22

In late August, about three weeks

1:02:24

before the course was the began,

1:02:27

I get a call. Head.

1:02:31

Can you teach their course? I said you

1:02:33

bet. And that's how

1:02:35

I began my teaching career. Again,

1:02:38

there's a lifeless and here. Opportunities.

1:02:41

Unexpectedly happen. And

1:02:45

many people say. He.

1:02:47

That's an interesting opportunity.

1:02:50

But. It only matters and live

1:02:52

if you seize the moment. If

1:02:56

you take advantage of

1:02:58

that opportunity, And

1:03:00

commit yourself to do something

1:03:03

that. You've. Never done

1:03:05

before. I. Find that I

1:03:07

learned the most, the fastest, When

1:03:09

I don't know what I'm doing. So.

1:03:12

I'd never taught. Oh. And. University

1:03:14

Course and all of a

1:03:16

sudden I'm in front of

1:03:18

a hundred second: your M

1:03:20

B a student's twenty four

1:03:22

years old teaching a course.

1:03:24

But. I. Did okay.

1:03:27

And. Then Stanford Graduate School of

1:03:29

Business of Would You Teach

1:03:32

Another Courses taught different courses

1:03:34

and that's how my teaching

1:03:36

career began. How

1:03:38

did you become? Good

1:03:40

at teaching or. Study.

1:03:43

Teaching. Refine. Your teaching?

1:03:45

How did you work on that? Because

1:03:47

you're an excellent teacher. Their.

1:03:49

Plenty a bad Teachers out there are plenty

1:03:51

is passable teachers, even at incredible institutions. But

1:03:54

I would consider you a. Very.

1:03:56

Very adept teacher. How did

1:03:58

you. Had a deal. Each. I

1:04:01

think. I became a

1:04:03

better teacher by not being smart.

1:04:06

And here's what I mean by of. People

1:04:09

who are really super smart.

1:04:12

Is. Learning comes to easy. I

1:04:15

believe you can be a better teacher.

1:04:17

When. It's more difficult for

1:04:20

you to learn so that you

1:04:22

can explain. To. Somebody.

1:04:26

Else how to.

1:04:29

Master. Of. Some.

1:04:31

Lesson I also. Had.

1:04:34

The chance as a high school

1:04:36

senior to take a course in

1:04:38

debate. It was a full

1:04:40

year course in debating. And.

1:04:43

That helped me with public

1:04:45

speaking, but more importantly, The.

1:04:48

High school teacher who taught

1:04:50

debate. Also. Taught

1:04:52

the various individual events

1:04:54

like oratory, And.

1:04:57

Extemporaneous Speaking. And

1:05:00

I. Wanted. To compete

1:05:02

in extemporaneous speaking? Did you just define

1:05:04

what that means And this gas? so?

1:05:06

well? This is the way it was

1:05:09

when I was in high school. And

1:05:12

extemporaneous speaking contest.

1:05:15

Each participant. Individually.

1:05:19

Would. Be given a topic. On.

1:05:22

Which to speak for ten minutes?

1:05:25

And each contestant would have

1:05:27

one hour to prepare the

1:05:29

ten minute speech. So.

1:05:32

My high school teacher said

1:05:34

won't come in after school's

1:05:37

over every afternoon. And

1:05:39

I'll give you a topic. I'll give

1:05:41

you an hour and then you come

1:05:43

back and give. Your. Ten minute

1:05:45

speech on that topic. So.

1:05:48

The first time I did that

1:05:50

he gave me a topic. I

1:05:52

spent the our preparing, I gave

1:05:54

my talk and when I ran

1:05:56

out of words I said is

1:05:58

the ten minutes up. It. Raises.

1:06:01

Her: It's only been three

1:06:03

minutes assess, assess, but every

1:06:06

afternoon he would do that.

1:06:09

And by the. End

1:06:11

of the. Public. Speaking.

1:06:15

Events. That. Year the

1:06:17

contest. That year I'd be

1:06:19

com as a state champion.

1:06:22

And extemporaneous speaking? yeah,

1:06:24

Sterling or Tomb about

1:06:26

preparation, this is just

1:06:28

another example. I. Wasn't born

1:06:30

to be a speaker. I wasn't

1:06:32

born to be a teacher. But

1:06:35

I learned. To. Do Both.

1:06:39

And. There are tools also as you

1:06:41

mentioned in your own teaching, their tools

1:06:43

that you can give people and strategies

1:06:45

which is certainly part was part as

1:06:47

yearly for ninety one in my case.

1:06:50

And in the cases of of your students. With

1:06:53

the extemporaneous speaking, what were

1:06:55

some of the. Seas.

1:06:58

To Getting better. Were there any

1:07:00

techniques or strategies are ways of

1:07:02

thinking about. The topics you

1:07:04

were given. That were particularly

1:07:06

helpful. In. That. Final:

1:07:09

A van. I remember

1:07:11

the topic. It

1:07:13

was what was the significance.

1:07:16

Of the conflict. Between.

1:07:20

Aaron Burr and Alexander

1:07:22

Hamilton. And I had

1:07:24

a. An. Hour to prepare

1:07:26

that one before Google Earth

1:07:29

before Google has. And so

1:07:31

this style of presentation. It

1:07:34

wasn't a sort of matter

1:07:36

of fact. It was

1:07:38

to. Prepare.

1:07:41

What might be called a ten

1:07:43

minute oration. With. Drama.

1:07:47

Worth. Stories. Worth.

1:07:50

Life. Lessons and sort of

1:07:52

and on a crescendo. And

1:07:55

let's go back to teach him. I.

1:07:57

View. Teach.

1:08:00

In. More. About

1:08:02

nurturing. About personal

1:08:05

values, About inspiration.

1:08:07

About recognizing that.

1:08:10

You. Can have fun. doing

1:08:12

great things, And. It's

1:08:15

not so much the lessons of

1:08:18

are the facts but rather it's.

1:08:21

Building. A maybe even

1:08:23

contagion. This. Optimistic

1:08:25

attitude and understanding

1:08:28

that. If you can change

1:08:30

the world for the better. That's.

1:08:32

As good as it gets. And. I

1:08:35

do think in retrospect it's may be

1:08:37

easier mosque were Caesar see in retrospect

1:08:39

but. How these various.

1:08:42

Stance. Opportunities and encounters

1:08:44

with philosophy. With.

1:08:46

The teaching. With the

1:08:48

extemporaneous speaking on the So in

1:08:50

that order, but how they've combined

1:08:53

into this alchemy that is enabled

1:08:55

you to. Transmit

1:08:57

and infuse. These

1:08:59

beliefs to your students in a way that

1:09:01

is very very memorable By it's not just

1:09:03

the text in the book, Do

1:09:06

remember a me remember the topic or and birth.

1:09:08

And. So on. Do remember any of the

1:09:10

choices that you made in how you competed.

1:09:14

With. That competition. Been.

1:09:16

Speaking yeah. No,

1:09:18

I remember. My. Debate

1:09:20

partner. In. High School.

1:09:23

And then at Princeton he was one

1:09:25

year behind me with started kindergarten together

1:09:27

and then I skip first grade so

1:09:29

I was one year ahead of him.

1:09:32

but when he was a junior and

1:09:34

I was a senior. We. Were

1:09:36

debate partner civil debate team

1:09:39

the urge to on each

1:09:41

side and one you heard

1:09:43

a sign. whether you were

1:09:45

the affirmative speakers supporting the

1:09:48

resolution or the negative speakers

1:09:50

against the resolution. As

1:09:53

I remember, he was

1:09:55

the first affirmative. Speaker.

1:10:00

And I was sitting near

1:10:02

while he was standing. And.

1:10:05

He got confused and he

1:10:07

gave the negative case. As

1:10:11

I'm a sort of making

1:10:13

hand signals to him, Spaz

1:10:15

is scaring the negative case

1:10:18

against the resolution a supposed

1:10:20

to be speaking for and

1:10:22

I was gonna have to

1:10:24

follow up on this and

1:10:26

he finally realized what was

1:10:28

happening and. He was

1:10:31

so smooth. He. Said.

1:10:33

And that. Ladies. And

1:10:36

gentlemen is what our opponents

1:10:38

would lead you to believe.

1:10:40

However, and some of us

1:10:42

have any quickly switch to

1:10:44

the affirmative up and. That's

1:10:48

incredible. Says

1:10:50

there's also a lesson in this

1:10:52

that. Things. Sometimes don't work

1:10:55

out exactly the way you

1:10:57

plan, but you gotta adapt.

1:11:00

And figure out how to

1:11:02

segue into what will work.

1:11:05

Be. Struck me as very. Very.

1:11:07

Adaptable and so many ways money's spent

1:11:09

time in so many different worlds. And

1:11:12

you're very good at seizing opportunities,

1:11:15

but you've also done certain things

1:11:17

for periods of time. If you've

1:11:19

run companies for extended periods of

1:11:21

time, You're. In politics for he

1:11:23

said period of time. How

1:11:25

to do This is actually some

1:11:27

phrasing that I heard from Rabbi

1:11:30

Jonathan Sacks in the Uk said

1:11:32

had you differentiate between opportunities to

1:11:34

be seized and temptations to be

1:11:36

resisted. He. Focused for extended periods

1:11:38

of time on single things were no doubt

1:11:40

there are other opportunities being thrown out you.

1:11:43

Had you think about. Focusing. For

1:11:46

extended periods. Or

1:11:48

opening yourself to opportunities.

1:11:50

This. Is really a simple. Question.

1:11:53

And it's answered with one word. Permit.

1:11:56

But. I had situations where

1:11:58

I had op the to the

1:12:00

to leave. Companies. That

1:12:03

I was running. I. Would

1:12:05

not leave. Until.

1:12:07

It was appropriate to leave more.

1:12:10

There was a successor, though. his

1:12:12

success. When. He or

1:12:14

an entrepreneur and people are

1:12:16

investing in you. When. You're

1:12:19

an entrepreneur and a Ceo.

1:12:21

and employees and customers and

1:12:24

suppliers are counting on you.

1:12:27

You've. Gotta have a commitment to.

1:12:30

Do the job until. You're.

1:12:33

No longer necessary when I'd took

1:12:35

the company public. My first company

1:12:38

public and it was about a.

1:12:41

Ten. Year period. And.

1:12:43

There were times during the that

1:12:45

ten years where. We. Almost

1:12:48

went under. But

1:12:50

when we I'd gone public

1:12:52

and then did a secondary

1:12:54

financing so there was sufficient

1:12:56

capital and then did a

1:12:58

search for a successor. I.

1:13:01

Felt that then I could leave

1:13:03

to run for the Congress. Perfect

1:13:06

segway. Why did you decide to run

1:13:08

for Congress? I thought I could be good

1:13:10

or. And here's why it

1:13:12

wasn't just. D. That's. Where

1:13:15

cool Like Philosophy and

1:13:18

Operations Research in Nineteen

1:13:20

Seventy Seven? I. Was

1:13:22

on the board of directors

1:13:25

of the American Electronics Association.

1:13:27

Electronics companies during the

1:13:29

seventies were. Unable

1:13:32

to raise sufficient amounts of

1:13:34

risk capital. The. Amount

1:13:36

of capital committed to.

1:13:39

Professionally. Managed venture capital

1:13:41

funds during the nineteen seventies.

1:13:44

Funds that would be investing

1:13:46

in tech companies. Was

1:13:48

only fifty million a year While.

1:13:51

Fifty. Million a year. I.

1:13:53

Was asked the chair a task

1:13:55

force for as a I'm an

1:13:58

American Electronics Association on Capital. Formation

1:14:00

to figure out what to do

1:14:02

and I assembled a group of

1:14:04

entrepreneurs and investors and. We.

1:14:06

Concluded the single. And.

1:14:09

Hibberd or to sufficient quantities of

1:14:11

risk Capital Investment was the high

1:14:13

rate of the capital gains tax

1:14:15

at the federal level at that

1:14:17

time. with his. Fifty

1:14:20

percent. And. Looking at

1:14:22

it of his investor invested. And.

1:14:25

Lost. Money. They. Lost

1:14:27

all the money if they investors and

1:14:30

made money. They gave half of that

1:14:32

to the federal government. Forgetting.

1:14:34

About what they have to go to the

1:14:36

state government. So. We. Felt the

1:14:38

lower in the tax on

1:14:40

capital gains was essential to

1:14:42

stimulate in the environment for

1:14:45

a risk. Capital investment not

1:14:47

just for electronics companies but

1:14:49

all kinds of job creating.

1:14:51

Ventures. The task

1:14:54

force put together oh

1:14:56

white paper. And.

1:14:58

Usually that's the end of

1:15:00

the story says. Well, we've.

1:15:03

Proposed the lower in the capital gains

1:15:05

tax. But keep in mind tim that.

1:15:08

This is a group of entrepreneurs.

1:15:11

And entrepreneurs don't just talk about

1:15:13

that. They make stuff happens. So.

1:15:16

The. First thing we did as

1:15:18

we did a survey of

1:15:20

the electronics industry and documented

1:15:22

the importance of more risk,

1:15:25

capital investment or job creation

1:15:27

and for the ability of

1:15:29

these companies to get started

1:15:31

and grow. Then. I

1:15:34

went to Washington and testified

1:15:36

before Congress and there was

1:15:38

a young congressman from Wisconsin,

1:15:40

Bill Steiger, who was on

1:15:42

though House Ways and Means

1:15:44

committee. He became intrigued with

1:15:46

this idea of lower in

1:15:48

the tax on capital gains

1:15:51

and so he entered use

1:15:53

the bill to do so.

1:15:55

And I work with him and

1:15:58

my of the whole electronics. Though

1:16:00

see a worked and lobbying

1:16:02

a mate, Ways and Means

1:16:04

committee worked with the senate.

1:16:07

And. By November of

1:16:09

Nineteen Seventy Eight, about

1:16:11

a year after, we'd

1:16:13

started this process with

1:16:15

our survey. The federal

1:16:17

tax on capital gains was

1:16:20

lowered from fifty percent to

1:16:22

twenty eight percent. And

1:16:24

was in about eighteen months.

1:16:27

One. Billion dollars of.

1:16:30

Capital. Flowed and to

1:16:32

professionally managed venture capital funds

1:16:34

compared to the. Fifty.

1:16:36

Million a year that has

1:16:39

been happening during the seventies

1:16:41

and anybody who studies the

1:16:43

Nineteen eighties that number on

1:16:45

an annual basis of for

1:16:48

five billion a year flowing

1:16:50

and to. Funds.

1:16:52

That were. Support. A

1:16:54

new enterprises and job

1:16:56

creating enterprise is so.

1:16:59

Sad. Experience particularly

1:17:01

because. Bill. Steiger died

1:17:03

of a heart attack. Within

1:17:06

a month after this bill was

1:17:08

passed, He. Passed away

1:17:10

in early December of

1:17:12

Nineteen Seventy Eight, the

1:17:14

bill was passed in

1:17:16

November of Seventy Eight.

1:17:18

His example inspired me

1:17:20

to. For. Public Service.

1:17:23

He. Had changed the nature

1:17:25

of the debate in Washington

1:17:27

on tax policy from who

1:17:29

pays and who doesn't. To.

1:17:33

What will be the economic impact.

1:17:36

And I felt. Cause.

1:17:39

Somebody who has built a company.

1:17:41

Somebody said the experience that I

1:17:44

had was working with Bills Steiger

1:17:46

to get the. Tax.

1:17:49

Rate on capital gains reduce. Perhaps

1:17:51

I had a contribution to May

1:17:53

in public service? It also strikes

1:17:55

me as it you may have

1:17:57

even said this in an interview.

1:18:00

That I read in preparing for.

1:18:02

This. Conversation. That.

1:18:04

In a in a very real sense you

1:18:06

had. An advantage in

1:18:09

the sense that. You.

1:18:12

Could always go back to building companies. Which.

1:18:15

Means. You weren't.

1:18:17

Necessarily. Dedicated to being a

1:18:20

politician as a career in definitely from

1:18:22

that point forward. You. Had some

1:18:24

attractive plan B's are planned sees if it

1:18:26

didn't work out. Said. Did

1:18:28

that enable you to think

1:18:31

more aggressively or differently? I

1:18:34

had a person off. Principle.

1:18:37

That I was only going to stay in

1:18:39

the house of. At

1:18:41

most three terms. Six.

1:18:44

Years. And that

1:18:46

gave me. To. Advantages

1:18:48

One: a sense of urgency.

1:18:51

I. Couldn't just conaway hit round and

1:18:53

learn the ropes. I added start

1:18:56

making a difference as quickly as

1:18:58

I. Was. Able. And

1:19:00

secondly, I gave me the freedom to

1:19:02

do what I thought was right. The.

1:19:05

Worse could happen as I

1:19:07

get retired. Or

1:19:09

maybe it's the best that could happen. I

1:19:12

get retired or of their one term or

1:19:14

two terms. Certainly. I

1:19:16

wasn't gonna serve more than three. As

1:19:18

it turns out, I only served two

1:19:20

terms in the house because as a.

1:19:23

Congressman. From California. I

1:19:26

think there were at that time

1:19:29

forty eight or fifty California members

1:19:31

of the house of Representatives. And.

1:19:34

We were a dime a

1:19:36

dozen sister or just as,

1:19:38

and I was very difficult

1:19:41

for a single California congressman

1:19:43

or Congresswoman to. Get.

1:19:45

The message out so I. Thought.

1:19:47

That if I have ideas I

1:19:49

aren't not only need a message,

1:19:51

I need a megaphone. And

1:19:53

I decided that I could get

1:19:56

a megaphone if I became a

1:19:58

Us Senator from California. I.

1:20:01

Ran for the Us Senate

1:20:03

in Nineteen, a starter in

1:20:05

Eighty Five. For the the

1:20:07

Nineteen Eighty Six campaign. I

1:20:10

won the Republican nomination, but

1:20:12

I was defeated in a

1:20:14

very close are lots and.

1:20:17

Bought. A. Percentage. Point percentage point

1:20:19

and a half by the. Three.

1:20:22

Term Incumbent: Allen.

1:20:24

Cranston. Looking

1:20:26

back. I was

1:20:28

disappointed at the time because I felt

1:20:30

I. Wasn't. As good enough Canada

1:20:32

as I had lots of support and

1:20:34

I'd like people down, but. Looking.

1:20:37

Back. I. Dodged a

1:20:39

bullet. They. That

1:20:41

very close loss because. Since.

1:20:44

Then I feel through

1:20:46

leading companies and through.

1:20:50

Least. My view: Changing lives

1:20:52

for the better my students

1:20:54

Over many many years the

1:20:56

I may have. Through

1:20:59

not. Just. Their lives

1:21:01

but how they've changed in a

1:21:03

positive way. The lives of others

1:21:05

that I may have made more

1:21:07

of a contribution to a better

1:21:10

future then I would have as

1:21:12

a Us Senator. I.

1:21:14

Believe that. I. Definitely that

1:21:17

and. Are some say end?

1:21:19

But. At the time. You were

1:21:21

disappointed and I would be very. Interested.

1:21:24

To hear because we been talking about a lot of

1:21:26

your successes and you've had a lot of successes. But.

1:21:29

At that time. When.

1:21:31

You got the news that you had

1:21:33

lost. What? Did the next few days

1:21:35

or weeks look like for you? Would you said yourself?

1:21:38

when you experience a loss like that? Why?

1:21:41

Do do next to make a difference. And.

1:21:44

I'd never been out of a

1:21:46

job as a safari. when you

1:21:49

say rather there is It was

1:21:51

from T Change starting a company

1:21:53

that running for Congress and now.

1:21:55

I didn't have a next what am

1:21:57

I gonna do next? I. Have.

1:22:00

The opportunity to join the

1:22:02

venture capital firm that was

1:22:04

the lead investor and my

1:22:06

first company and I accepted

1:22:08

that the As as a

1:22:10

general partner of the From.

1:22:13

It was Brentwood Associates at

1:22:15

that time was a Los

1:22:17

Angeles based venture capital firm

1:22:20

and I established the Silicon

1:22:22

Valley. Officer. That from.

1:22:25

I think they my partner's would

1:22:27

agree that I wasn't really very

1:22:29

good at the end of Venture

1:22:31

Capital Investor. I. Am too

1:22:33

much of an optimist. Every deal

1:22:35

I looked at all it's he's

1:22:37

as it that's really interesting that

1:22:39

as I can see how to

1:22:42

make that happen as as of

1:22:44

venture capitalists you really have to

1:22:46

be more realistic and maybe even

1:22:48

super. But. Also,

1:22:50

at that time in my life

1:22:52

I viewed been an investor as.

1:22:55

Panel. Like a football coach. You.

1:22:58

Walk the sidelines you send

1:23:00

in place, you make substitutions,

1:23:02

you rant and rave at

1:23:05

half time. Which

1:23:07

is never put any points on the board. And.

1:23:10

I was still in at that

1:23:12

time of my life wanting to

1:23:14

put points on the board meaning.

1:23:17

Running. A company not been a

1:23:19

better in the stands but the

1:23:21

jockey on the horse. And.

1:23:24

So when I had an opportunity

1:23:26

to become Ceo of one of

1:23:28

those companies, Brentwood has helped to

1:23:30

start. I took that

1:23:33

opportunity and a company in

1:23:35

the magnetic recording components business

1:23:37

called Cent Store. What?

1:23:40

Is your decision process like for something

1:23:42

like that? Because you mentioned with them

1:23:44

venture capital. General. Partner position.

1:23:47

Perhaps. You are too optimistic. Everything

1:23:50

so did Interesting. But

1:23:52

when. You make a decision to say

1:23:54

become the Ceo of a start up in

1:23:56

the portfolio. You are

1:23:58

saying no to other thing

1:24:00

presumably Sat was the decision

1:24:02

process like in evaluating. That.

1:24:05

And saying yes to it. It's again,

1:24:08

Commitment. I. Mean I

1:24:10

was part of of from. General.

1:24:13

Partner of affirm that it

1:24:15

made a significant investment in

1:24:18

this company. And. They

1:24:20

felt that there was a need

1:24:22

for. A new Ceo. And.

1:24:25

So. When. They

1:24:28

talk to me about it. It

1:24:30

started out as or can you go

1:24:32

in there and help Wow. And

1:24:35

be on the board earn.

1:24:38

It evolved into can you

1:24:40

go in there and run

1:24:42

it. And I wasn't

1:24:44

gonna say no to my partner's

1:24:46

did you in your mind, were

1:24:49

explicitly with them. Set.

1:24:51

Expectations in the way that you did

1:24:53

for yourself. With. The three term

1:24:55

limit. As a congressman, did you go

1:24:58

in? To. It saying I'm committing

1:25:00

to this for. X. Period

1:25:02

of time and and will have reevaluated was

1:25:04

it left totally open. Ended. I.

1:25:06

Was left open Ended. The

1:25:08

goal as success rather than

1:25:11

how how long. And.

1:25:14

I think you're getting to have. An

1:25:16

issue the where I may not.

1:25:19

Be. Like a lot of other people, I

1:25:21

don't do things for me. I.

1:25:23

Do things for others, So.

1:25:26

If you wanna get down to

1:25:28

what motivates you, Finding.

1:25:31

Something that I think is meaningful

1:25:33

that needs to be done and

1:25:36

recognized in. I couldn't help. Do

1:25:38

It. And it's not

1:25:40

about the money. That's.

1:25:43

Why I do things pro bono. My.

1:25:46

Wife is not particularly thrilled with

1:25:48

that different set of, but on

1:25:50

the other hand, I focus on

1:25:53

where can I make a difference

1:25:55

for the benefit of others rather

1:25:57

than what's in it for me.

1:26:00

And I don't know. Well, that's

1:26:03

unusual, but it's served me well.

1:26:05

How do you differentiate? Between.

1:26:09

The. Things that will. Have

1:26:12

the greatest impact for others. And

1:26:15

feeling peer pressured to

1:26:18

commit. To.

1:26:20

Something if that question makes any sense

1:26:22

because it seems like people pleasing it

1:26:24

ends committing to things that will help.

1:26:28

The. Greatest number of other people are deeply help

1:26:30

other people are two different things and I guess

1:26:32

I'm I'm just wondering if. If

1:26:34

there are times when you commit to

1:26:37

say. Doing. Certain things because

1:26:39

the general partners to whom you've made

1:26:41

a commitment. Ask. You to do

1:26:43

it. May. Not always be

1:26:45

the same thing that will have. The.

1:26:48

Greatest impact. Maybe. Sell a

1:26:50

good question. I'm just wondering if you've ever run into

1:26:52

a position where people want you to do one thing

1:26:54

and you could be very good at it. But

1:26:57

you feel like your. Abilities.

1:26:59

Are better put in a different place. Usually.

1:27:02

The decision said I make.

1:27:05

About. How I'm gonna spend my time

1:27:07

in my life. Are made

1:27:09

by me. Rather,

1:27:11

Than responding to requests.

1:27:14

When I. Came.

1:27:17

To offer my coarser at Princeton.

1:27:19

I. Hadn't gotten a phone call saying.

1:27:22

Hey. I would you please come

1:27:24

and teacher hi tech entrepreneurship course

1:27:27

at Princeton. Rather,

1:27:29

In a june of Nineteen

1:27:31

Ninety Seven, I ask for

1:27:33

a meeting with the then

1:27:35

Dean of the Engineering School

1:27:37

to way. And in

1:27:39

that meeting, I propose

1:27:41

that the Engineering School.

1:27:44

Would. Benefit from having

1:27:46

a rather comprehensive program

1:27:48

in entrepreneurship. It.

1:27:51

Just made perfect sense to

1:27:53

me that engineers innovate. But.

1:27:55

In order to make a difference

1:27:57

in the world that innovation has.

1:28:00

Then become real and commercialized

1:28:02

than often in a start

1:28:04

up venture. So. Exposed

1:28:07

in engineering students to that

1:28:09

process and that opportunity seem

1:28:11

to make sense, and that

1:28:14

was the origin of the

1:28:16

first offering a real A

1:28:18

for Ninety One and the

1:28:20

fall semester of Nineteen Ninety

1:28:23

Seven again as an instance

1:28:25

where I decided that there

1:28:27

might be some value that

1:28:30

I could create. And now.

1:28:33

Entrepreneurship. The Princeton Way

1:28:35

as pervasive across this campus

1:28:37

with many courses with than

1:28:39

a coke or a killer

1:28:42

and extracurricular. Programs.

1:28:44

For the benefit of

1:28:46

student entrepreneurs. And.

1:28:49

The. Survey that I mentioned before

1:28:51

out of four hundred of

1:28:53

the students that took my

1:28:55

course forgetting about Britain not

1:28:57

including the courses the many

1:28:59

other courses that are now

1:29:01

offered. To. Have a hundred

1:29:03

and sixty founders. Of

1:29:06

companies from that cod right They

1:29:08

would suggest have a that out

1:29:10

of the total of sixteen hundred

1:29:13

that there may be three four

1:29:15

hundred founders. And I

1:29:17

still I'm touched. When.

1:29:19

I get emails from students I

1:29:22

may have had a dozen years

1:29:24

ago. Saying. Add. You.

1:29:26

Planted the seed, Twelve.

1:29:29

Years ago and it's finally

1:29:31

sprouting. I've just found that

1:29:33

my first company. It took

1:29:35

me this long, but. You.

1:29:38

Gave me the confidence to do

1:29:40

with. How have you thought

1:29:43

about. Parenting. And.

1:29:45

Your own kids because you're so deliberate

1:29:47

and hate speech and use. For.

1:29:50

Paired so extensively not just

1:29:52

for the courses, but for

1:29:54

each individual class. How.

1:29:56

Have you thought about parenting? Or.

1:29:59

How would you? does? I've your parenting style.

1:30:01

It's almost the sun is. That.

1:30:04

It's just that the students start. A

1:30:07

lot younger ssssss. I.

1:30:09

Believe that. The.

1:30:11

Best way to help

1:30:14

people. Find. Their way.

1:30:17

Nurture them. Is.

1:30:19

Through encouragement. Rove.

1:30:22

Under rocks. When. Our

1:30:24

children were young. We have.

1:30:27

Three. Children. I

1:30:29

coached. Thirteen.

1:30:31

Soccer Teams. All

1:30:33

three of them played soccer at one time

1:30:35

or another. I. Was a

1:30:37

Cub scout. Leader and

1:30:40

a Boy Scout Leader. We're.

1:30:42

Really proud of the way our kids turned

1:30:44

up. We. Were lucky. They.

1:30:47

Were growing up in a good place that

1:30:49

a good time. Probably.

1:30:51

Not a lot of the challenges

1:30:53

that. All. Parents face

1:30:55

today. Was. The the

1:30:58

world more complicated? Who

1:31:00

has communications technology more

1:31:02

advanced? But. Loving

1:31:04

and caring. And. Letting

1:31:07

them know. That. You

1:31:09

love them! As you care.

1:31:12

Is. Is. Kinda

1:31:15

as a secret apparently. Could

1:31:17

you speak to the encouragement instead

1:31:19

of rather than direction a bit

1:31:21

more? Does that mean that you're.

1:31:24

Exposing them to a lot and whatever

1:31:26

they gravitate towards naturally is what's use.

1:31:29

And had a foster. What? What does

1:31:31

that mean when you say encouragements? that

1:31:33

direction. They've. Got to live their

1:31:36

lives. You. Can't live their lives.

1:31:39

I think I benefited a lot from.

1:31:42

My. Own parents. They.

1:31:44

Were proud of me. Whether.

1:31:46

I did well or not, I. Learn.

1:31:49

When. I was Navy's five six,

1:31:52

seven years old how to

1:31:54

build radios and build motors

1:31:56

in a basement workshop for

1:31:58

my father, who added agree

1:32:00

in electrical engineering, but. Sadly,

1:32:03

During the depression a Los

1:32:06

Dos engineering job and got

1:32:08

into or an assignment that

1:32:10

really. Didn't have anything to

1:32:12

do with engineering but he could say

1:32:14

dinner in order to provide for his

1:32:16

family. One. Thing that I

1:32:18

remember from my. Parents.

1:32:21

Are. As as we talked

1:32:23

about earlier competitive figure skater

1:32:25

and sometimes I didn't do

1:32:28

well. In. A competition

1:32:30

I may have fallen or may

1:32:32

have not done a school figure

1:32:34

of very well. Not up to

1:32:36

my ability. They.

1:32:39

Never criticize me. In

1:32:41

those situations, They. Never

1:32:43

put pressure on me, They.

1:32:45

Were always supportive. And.

1:32:48

Proud. Regardless of.

1:32:51

How. Well, I did, relative to what

1:32:53

I could have done. What? Might

1:32:56

they say was to say on the car

1:32:58

ride back after he has had for you

1:33:00

disappointing performance what are the types of things

1:33:02

they might said He. Great. Job.

1:33:06

At having done a soccer coats.

1:33:09

I know that not all parents

1:33:11

act that way. Sophists,

1:33:13

Is that sometimes parents? So

1:33:15

the problems that players? They're

1:33:17

just fine since parents are

1:33:19

a problem. Both. Of

1:33:22

my parents. Weren't. Raised

1:33:24

by their parents, My. Have.

1:33:27

Mother. Was raised by or grandmother.

1:33:30

My. Father was raised

1:33:32

by his mother's sister's.

1:33:35

His. Mother died when he was about

1:33:37

twelve years old. His. Father

1:33:40

was in the German newspaper

1:33:42

business in Montana, but he

1:33:44

and his sister grew up

1:33:46

in Omaha, raised by. His.

1:33:49

To see his mother's sister. And.

1:33:53

I think as a result. Of

1:33:55

their not having parents, they wanted

1:33:57

to be the best parents. So

1:34:00

my sister minute never had

1:34:02

a whole lot of money,

1:34:04

but my sister had ballet

1:34:06

lessons and she was an

1:34:08

exquisite. Ballerina, I.

1:34:11

Had piano lessons and.

1:34:14

Figure. Skating lessons and.

1:34:16

They just. Want. To be

1:34:18

the best parents over. And.

1:34:21

I. Think they. Felt. Blessed.

1:34:25

To have. Two

1:34:27

children who. Wanted

1:34:30

to succeed. We. Both

1:34:32

studied hard, were both good

1:34:34

students with. Went. To

1:34:36

college. we did other things

1:34:39

besides that and we wanted.

1:34:42

Both. Won as our parents to be

1:34:44

proud. Where. Do you think

1:34:46

that desire came from was

1:34:48

it's watching their example and

1:34:51

the perhaps the diligence with

1:34:53

with your father. Showed

1:34:56

you how to disassemble and reassemble

1:34:58

these radios. Where did the desire

1:35:00

to please them come from? If.

1:35:03

What you most receive was continuous

1:35:05

positive feedback. I'm not I'm not

1:35:07

sure was the focus of my

1:35:09

life with to please them, read

1:35:11

or for the upright I've had

1:35:14

from the time. I was

1:35:16

in grade school, maybe even in

1:35:18

kindergarten of her first grade. An

1:35:21

overarching goal. And

1:35:23

that is to live a

1:35:26

life that matters. To

1:35:28

make a lasting positive difference

1:35:30

in the world, I call

1:35:32

it leaving footprints. That's what

1:35:34

drives me. So.

1:35:37

As some people might. Say.

1:35:39

Well, my overarching goal is

1:35:41

to be the richest person

1:35:43

around. Or. My overarching

1:35:46

goal is to have

1:35:48

a whole lot of

1:35:50

adulation and be a

1:35:52

celebrity. My goal, maybe

1:35:54

even in a way.

1:35:56

Is. To. Leave. Footprints.

1:36:00

The world. Have. There ever been

1:36:02

times in your life where you stuff

1:36:04

like you've wandered. Or. Been pushed

1:36:06

away from that and and have corrected

1:36:08

course. I don't recall. Style

1:36:12

or to. I owe our voice

1:36:14

sort of march to my own drum.

1:36:16

Them. Scanner. One of

1:36:18

the, that's another thing. Maybe

1:36:21

this is important. Or. Your

1:36:23

audience. I. Always.

1:36:26

Wanted to be different. There are.

1:36:28

People. Particularly with social

1:36:30

media these days, the wanna

1:36:33

be accepted. The wanna be

1:36:35

like if someone has a

1:36:38

new kind of sue or.

1:36:41

Sure the another former have

1:36:43

the same thing. And

1:36:45

so I've always had a desire to

1:36:47

be different. From. Others

1:36:49

And maybe that. Enables

1:36:51

may not only to. Venture.

1:36:55

Were others may not venture

1:36:57

but. Also. To

1:36:59

be satisfied. Doing.

1:37:02

Something that. Nobody. else

1:37:04

is doing. Are any. Books.

1:37:07

That have had a particularly large impact

1:37:10

on your life or that use given

1:37:12

the most to other people. Are.

1:37:14

Recommended. Over

1:37:16

four hour workweeks. Afford

1:37:19

a four hour by Sunset City

1:37:21

that has their five bucks of

1:37:24

hers are those are very fine

1:37:26

box and everyone says rather. Besides

1:37:29

those forces this on the top

1:37:31

shelf. Are there any any books

1:37:33

to come to mind that have

1:37:35

impacted you strongly or that use

1:37:37

recommended to students are other people.

1:37:40

When I was little. At

1:37:42

one are talking about little like. Six.

1:37:45

Eight ten years old. There.

1:37:48

Was a whole series of.

1:37:50

Biographies. Written.

1:37:53

For. Children

1:37:55

my age. Thomas.

1:37:58

Edison. A. Graham

1:38:00

Lincoln, Benjamin Franklin's. And

1:38:03

I would read those books

1:38:06

over and over. Because.

1:38:09

Their lives and what they

1:38:11

accomplished. Were.

1:38:14

What? I hope to do. So

1:38:17

it with that said of experience

1:38:19

there is a book. On

1:38:22

the Wright Brothers. And these

1:38:24

were written for somebody my

1:38:26

age now. You. Can

1:38:28

read Walter Isaacson, Spock,

1:38:30

gone Benjamin Franklin, or

1:38:32

on Steve Jobs or

1:38:35

Walter Isaacson book on

1:38:37

Einstein. But. It's the

1:38:39

same thing or David Mccullers on

1:38:41

The Wright Brothers see as a

1:38:43

fabulous block. Do. You still

1:38:45

read biographies? is that felt

1:38:48

kind of all I care

1:38:50

about as necessity. And it's

1:38:52

their stories. The story

1:38:54

is set our inspirational.

1:38:57

And a gets back to what we're

1:38:59

talking about before it was the case

1:39:02

methods. Were. When.

1:39:04

I'm writing a biography just like

1:39:06

I'm hoping the students when they

1:39:09

read a case that they think

1:39:11

of themselves in that situation and

1:39:13

what would I do? And.

1:39:16

Retain biographies was is

1:39:18

that wonderful Mccall a

1:39:20

book on the Wright

1:39:22