0:00

August 4th 1990 San

0:04

Antonio, Texas While

0:06

walking home from her friend's house,

0:08

11-year-old Hayi Seaman goes missing after

0:10

an apparent abduction. 19 days

0:13

later, another San Antonio

0:16

girl, 7-year-old Erika Betayo, is

0:18

abducted from outside her apartment complex, and

0:21

the bodies of each victim are eventually

0:23

found at separate locations one day apart.

0:27

Investigators look into the possibility that the

0:29

cases might be connected, and while

0:31

there are a couple of compelling suspects for each of

0:33

the crimes, Hayi and Erika's

0:35

murders are never officially solved. After

0:38

that, the trail went cold. The

1:03

trail

1:07

went

1:11

cold.

1:17

Hello everyone and welcome to our latest episode

1:19

of The Trail Went Cold. I'm

1:22

your host Robin Warner, and today

1:24

we're going to be exploring two unsolved cold

1:26

cases which took place in the same city

1:28

during the same month. The

1:30

1990 murders of 11-year-old Hayi Seaman and

1:34

7-year-old Erika Betayo. Over

1:36

the years, I've received a number of

1:38

requests to cover the Hayi Seaman case,

1:40

but since the murder of Erika Betayo

1:42

has always been so closely associated with

1:44

it, I'm going to be exploring both

1:46

cases. In August of

1:48

1990, the city of San Antonio,

1:51

Texas went through a very terrifying time

1:53

when two young girls, Hayi Seaman

1:55

and Erika Betayo, were abducted

1:58

within 19 days of each other. and

2:00

their bodies would eventually be found at separate

2:02

locations on the same weekend. Since

2:05

both victims lived in separate sections of the

2:07

city, investigators have always been

2:10

inclined to believe that the crimes are not

2:12

connected, but the two cases are

2:14

often mentioned in conjunction with each other. There

2:17

have been some compelling suspects in each

2:19

of these murders, but there has also

2:21

been controversy. In the

2:24

Heidi Seaman case, it seems like

2:26

different investigative agencies have differing ideas

2:28

about who the most likely perpetrator

2:30

is, and ironically, one

2:33

of the prime suspects was a former

2:35

supervisor of Heidi's father, who was

2:37

actively involved in the search effort for. It

2:40

seemed like Erika Bateo's case was going to

2:42

be solved very quickly, as three

2:44

suspects were immediately charged with her murder,

2:47

but a grand jury declined to indict them

2:49

due to insufficient evidence, and there's

2:51

been debate about whether the initial investigation

2:54

was botched beyond repair. All

2:56

we know for certain is that both of

2:58

these crimes are still unsolved three decades later,

3:01

so we're going to explore both of them on

3:03

today's episode. However, before we

3:05

get started, just a quick reminder that The

3:07

Trail Went Cold is a weekly podcast, which

3:10

is currently available for download on

3:12

several platforms, including Apple Podcasts and

3:15

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exclusive bonus episodes in our archives, which

3:48

are not available on a regular feed.

3:52

So With all that out of the way,

3:54

let us now explore the murders of Heidi

3:56

Seamond and Erika Boteo. Our

4:43

story begins in San Antonio, Texas and

4:45

ninety Ninety and our first victim is

4:47

eleven year old Heidi Li and seen

4:49

it. Originally born in Grand

4:51

Forks, North Dakota, Heidi now lives in

4:53

the northeast side of the city with

4:55

her parents hurt us and Theresa semen

4:57

an older sister heather. As or

5:00

father is a senior Master Sergeant

5:02

assigned to the Airforce Military Personnel

5:04

Center at Randolph Air Force Base

5:06

in Universal City. She.

5:08

Is currently enjoying her summer vacation

5:10

after having completed the fifth grade

5:12

at Stall Elementary School. On

5:15

the morning of Saturday August the fourth, Heidi

5:17

I just finished having sleep over at her

5:19

friend with his house and the two girls

5:22

left to gather in order to head towards

5:24

Heidi's home, which was located about a mile

5:26

away. With me would

5:28

later say that while they were walking down

5:30

Will Run Street they were passed twice by

5:32

a red car with tinted windows and a

5:34

thin red stripe. At one

5:36

point it slowed down while it was near

5:38

the two girls and when he noticed that

5:41

the car was being driven by a white

5:43

or hispanic male with dark hair and a

5:45

mustache. Who. Briefly stare at them before

5:47

he drove off. At

5:49

around Eleven fifty five am, Heidi and

5:51

Whitney reach the corner of Will Run

5:53

Street and Stall Road. Which. Was

5:55

the halfway point between their two houses

5:57

and witty noticed the red car passing.

6:00

Buy them a third time. The.

6:02

Two girls went their separate ways as

6:04

high. He headed west on road. While.

6:06

Whitney started heading back towards their own

6:09

house. When. He said that

6:11

as she was walking, she briefly turn your head

6:13

around to check on Heidi. But. She

6:15

could no longer seer and the red car

6:17

was no longer around either. Even

6:20

though it was only a few more blocks

6:22

to hide his home, she never right there.

6:24

And. When her parents phone Whitney to find out

6:26

where she was. They. Learn that Heidi

6:29

a seemingly disappeared right after the

6:31

two girls separated. The.

6:33

Siemens then contacted the San Antonio

6:35

Police Department in order to report

6:37

Heidi missing. For. The

6:39

next three weeks, Heidi's disappearance would garner

6:42

massive publicity and one of the largest

6:44

search efforts ever perform for a missing

6:46

child would be launched. Since.

6:49

Courtesy of and was serving with United

6:51

States Air Force, they would devote all

6:53

the resources they could to help find

6:55

Heidi. And a total, the

6:57

search effort would encompass an estimated

6:59

twelve hundred square miles. When.

7:02

San Antonio. Me or Lyla Cockrell

7:04

declared Saturday August the eleventh to

7:06

be fine. Tidy day. approximately.

7:09

Three hundred thousand people participated in

7:11

the search. Including David Robinson

7:13

and Willy Anderson of the San

7:15

Antonio Spurs basketball team. On

7:18

Aug. the nineteenth hide Case was

7:20

featured on the nationally televised Prime

7:23

Show America's Most Wanted. Where.

7:25

Viewers for urge to call a toll

7:27

free number if they had any information

7:29

about her disappearance. Will.

7:32

Ninety days after Heidi went missing.

7:34

San. Antonio would experience another tragedy when

7:37

a second young girl seven year old

7:39

eric have a tail became the victim

7:41

of an abduction. Erica.

7:44

Lived on the South side of the city

7:46

at the West and Baptists Man or Apartments

7:48

on West Thirty Fifth Street. alongside

7:50

her mother, Maria Bataille for

7:52

three siblings Emery as common

7:54

law husband hey, Zeus Rodriguez

7:56

who was technically Erica stepfather.

7:59

On. The app. Of August Twenty third.

8:01

Iraq and one. Of her seven year old

8:04

friends were playing outside in the playground of

8:06

their apartment complex. When the friend decided to

8:08

go back inside. At the

8:10

time Maria Potatoes insider own apartment. When

8:13

she suddenly heard screaming and when she

8:15

ran out into the playground, she discovered

8:17

that Erica was gone. It.

8:20

Seemed a parrot that Iraq had been

8:22

abducted. so she was reported missing to

8:24

the San Antonio Police Department. Eric.

8:27

His friend told the police that shortly after

8:29

she went back into her apartment, she looked

8:31

out the window and saw Erica talking to

8:33

a man. After the friend

8:35

turned away, she heard the same screen that

8:38

Maria did and which he looked back outside

8:40

the window. Iraq and the man were gone.

8:43

When. Curtis and Teresa seem and learned

8:45

about Eric his disappearance. The immediately reached

8:48

out offer their support to Eric, his

8:50

family. The. Also offered

8:52

to share the resources from the search effort

8:54

for Heidi. So. Members of the Airforce

8:56

would help look for Erica. Unfortunately

8:59

for the semen family they would

9:01

soon receives and tragic news. Had.

9:04

Around for thirty pm on Saturday, August

9:06

twenty fifth, A rancher named Jack

9:09

Campbell was riding on an all terrain

9:11

vehicle with his three year old son

9:13

on his role property and he's county.

9:15

About six miles outside the village of

9:18

Wimberly. He. Soon came

9:20

across a pair of duct tape trash

9:22

bags like about twenty feet away from

9:24

county road to twenty. Which. Have been

9:26

tied with while the yellow had nylon rope.

9:29

Have. To realizing that the base contained a

9:31

child's body. Campbell. Contacted the

9:34

He's County Sheriff's office. The.

9:36

Body was partially decomposed and the skull

9:38

had become detached him as like a

9:40

few feet away. Though. This was

9:43

likely the result of animal activity

9:45

Rather than the victim be decapitated,

9:48

Dental records would soon be used to

9:50

positively identified the victim as Heidi Semen.

9:53

Her. Body was wrapped in a white blanket and

9:55

she had her hands tied behind her back with

9:58

a rope. And. After an auto. The

10:00

was performed. The. Medical examiner ruled that

10:02

Heidi was the victim of a homicide.

10:05

He. Stated that due. To the advanced level

10:07

of the composition on her body. He.

10:10

Would be almost impossible to conclusively

10:12

determine if Heidi was sexually assaulted

10:14

or how she was murdered. Though.

10:16

He theorized that she was either strangled,

10:18

her suffocated to death. The.

10:20

Location where heidi the sound was about

10:23

sixty miles northeast from San Antonio. Campbell.

10:26

Would later say that six days before the

10:28

discovery of her body. He. Recalled driving

10:30

down a narrow pasture road and passing

10:33

by a white Chrysler Lebaron convertible which

10:35

had a top them. The.

10:37

Vehicle contain to white males with the

10:40

driver be heavy said man with a

10:42

military sell true cut and a passenger

10:44

be a thin man. Handle

10:47

said that this was in fairly close proximity

10:49

to the spot where Heidi was later found

10:51

and stated quote, if he went down that

10:53

little road you had to know where you

10:55

were going. And. Quote. Will.

10:58

Believe it or not, on Sunday August

11:01

Twenty Six. The. Day after, Heidi's

11:03

remains were found. There would be

11:05

a resolution in Iraq is cases well. When.

11:07

An airman participating in the search effort

11:09

for. Came. Across Eric has body

11:11

in a storm drain located less than

11:13

a mile away from her apartment. Much.

11:16

Like Heidi, Erica was decomposed and while

11:19

she was partially clothed and our hands

11:21

were tied, Investigators cannot determine

11:23

if a sexual assault had taken

11:25

place. It's. Also unclear

11:27

if they were able to establish the cause of

11:30

death. Though. I've read at least once or

11:32

state that she was strangled. The.

11:34

Funerals for both Heidi and Erica would

11:36

be held three days later on August

11:38

twenty ninth. right? From

11:40

the outset authorities do not believe that

11:43

the to crimes were connected. And

11:45

it initially seemed like Eric is murder would

11:47

be resolved very quickly. On

11:49

August twenty fourth, Two. Days before

11:51

Eric his body was even found. A

11:54

seventeen year old suspect need Roderick

11:56

to Rub Springs was charged with

11:58

kidnapping, resisting arrest. A failing

12:01

to identify himself to police officers.

12:04

Straight. Suffer from paranoid Schizophrenia and

12:06

weeks before Erica went missing, he

12:08

been charged with assault in an

12:11

unrelated incident. Who. The charge was

12:13

dropped after he agreed to counseling at

12:15

a mental health facility. Springs.

12:18

Popped up on the police's radar when

12:20

Eric, his friend identified him as the

12:23

man she saw speed Erica outside our

12:25

apartment window. And. After Eric his

12:27

body was found. The. Charges against

12:29

Springs Rock raided the capital murder.

12:32

Shortly. Thereafter to other

12:34

suspects. Thirty. One year old Sherman

12:36

dead for the third. And. Thirty two

12:38

year old Kenneth Url Pope. Or

12:40

also charged with capital murder for their

12:43

alleged rules and eric his death. And.

12:45

All three men will be held in the Bear

12:47

County jail. While. The case against them

12:49

was presented to a grand jury by

12:51

the Bay Or County District Attorney's Office.

12:54

However, it soon became apparent that the

12:56

case against them was not exactly rock

12:59

solid. As Bedford had an I

13:01

Q of only fifty three and they're a spear

13:03

that the police headquarters to confession out of. I'm.

13:06

In. Fact: The only reason Pope has

13:08

he been arrested was because Bedford at

13:10

implicated him as an accomplice. In.

13:13

September the Grand jury issued a know

13:15

bill of indictment against Pope which meant

13:17

they believe the prosecution did not show

13:20

probable cause to charge him. At

13:22

the serving twenty four days in jail, the

13:25

charges against put were dropped and he was

13:27

released. And the District Attorney's office

13:29

would later state that they no longer

13:31

believed he had any involvement in the

13:33

crime and publicly exonerated him. But.

13:36

The Authority still considered Bedford and

13:38

Springs to be suspects as they

13:40

believe that Springs abducted Erica while

13:42

Bedford drop their getaway car. However,

13:45

on December the night of that year,

13:47

it was announced that the Grand jury

13:50

had declined to indict Springs at Bedford

13:52

for Eric is murder due to insufficient

13:54

evidence. So the capital murder charges were

13:56

dropped. While. bed for

13:58

was released from jail Springs was committed

14:00

to the San Antonio State Hospital for

14:03

several months on the resisting arrest charge

14:05

before being released into the custody of

14:07

his mother. While

14:10

the investigation into Erica's murder pretty much

14:12

hit a brick wall, there would be many

14:15

more developments in the investigation into Heidi's

14:17

murder. Her case wound

14:19

up leading to the creation of a

14:21

non-profit volunteer organization called the Heidi Search

14:23

Center, which was named after her and

14:25

functioned as a resource to help the

14:27

families of other missing children and adults.

14:31

One individual who was instrumental in the creation

14:33

of the Heidi Search Center was

14:35

Major Robert Eric Duncan of the United States

14:38

Air Force. Duncan, who was

14:40

married and had two children of his

14:42

own, had been a psychologist at Randolph

14:44

Air Force Base and was the former

14:47

supervisor of Heidi's father, Curtis Seaman. Major

14:50

Duncan was also the operations director

14:52

who helped coordinate the original search effort

14:55

for Heidi, and he served as

14:57

the Heidi Search Center's president from November of 1990

14:59

until August of 1991. However, in March of

15:04

1992, it was announced that Duncan

15:06

had become the prime suspect in Heidi's murder.

15:10

By this point, Duncan was stationed at

15:12

Brooks Air Force Base in San Antonio,

15:14

but he was taken into custody

15:16

by the Air Force Office of

15:18

Special Investigations, aka the OSI, while

15:21

a search was performed of his home for evidence.

15:24

One of the first people to become suspicious

15:27

of Duncan was Hays County Sheriff Paul Hastings,

15:29

whose wife, Patty Hastings, was a

15:32

reporter for a newspaper in Dripping

15:34

Springs, a rural town located

15:36

near the spot where Heidi's body was found.

15:39

In the weeks following Heidi's disappearance, Major

15:42

Duncan called Patty numerous times to

15:44

frequently ask questions about the investigation

15:46

and inquire about whether the FBI

15:48

was going to become involved. Duncan

15:51

also allegedly spoke about a series of

15:53

strange dreams he'd been having about Heidi

15:56

and started making Patty uncomfortable, so

15:59

she shared her suspicions with him. about him with her husband.

16:02

The OSI became interested in Duncan

16:05

after they were approached by a former co-worker

16:07

of his from Randolph Air Force Base. The

16:10

co-worker said that Duncan blamed Curtis

16:12

Seaman for getting him removed from

16:14

his supervisory position there and transferred

16:16

to Brooks Air Force Base, and

16:19

Duncan allegedly said that he would

16:21

quote-unquote get even with Curtis. Interestingly

16:24

enough, Duncan's last day at Randolph

16:26

was August 3, 1990, before he reported for

16:30

duty at Brooks on August 6, and

16:33

of course, Heidi just happened to be abducted

16:35

on August 4. Duncan

16:38

was also driving a red car at

16:40

that time which matched the description of

16:42

the vehicle seen passing by Heidi before

16:44

she went missing, and he did

16:47

bear resemblance to the male driver Whitney

16:49

at scene. After

16:51

he was taken into custody by the

16:53

OSI, Duncan was held at the Wilfert

16:55

Hall Medical Center at Loughlin Air Force

16:57

Base for psychological testing. They

17:00

could only legally hold Duncan for 72

17:02

hours without charging him, and

17:04

since the OSI were unable to uncover any

17:07

conclusive evidence to prove that he murdered Heidi,

17:10

he was subsequently released and returned to

17:12

normal duty. Well,

17:14

even though the OSI believed that Duncan was

17:16

the prime suspect, the San Antonio

17:18

Police Department were not entirely convinced,

17:21

and in February of 1996, they would announce that they

17:24

had uncovered a new suspect. At

17:28

the time, they would not release his

17:30

name publicly, but years later, it was

17:32

revealed that the suspect was 39-year-old Jerry

17:34

Lee Naver, who was known for being

17:37

a heavy user and dealer of methamphetamine

17:39

and was incarcerated at the Dominguez State

17:41

Jail at that time on drug charges.

17:45

Naver became a suspect after an

17:47

eyewitness came forward and told investigators

17:49

that in August of 1990, during

17:51

the time period Heidi was missing,

17:54

he visited Naver's apartment and

17:56

saw a young girl tied to a chair with her

17:58

legs open. Her mouth was

18:01

covered with what appeared to be a bandana and

18:03

she was crying, and when the

18:05

witness asked Neighbor who the girl was,

18:07

he supposedly replied, quote, she's

18:09

just a little meth whore I found somewhere. In

18:12

retrospect, the witness now believed that the

18:14

girl was Heidi Seaman. At

18:17

that time, Neighbor operated an auto

18:19

repair shop on Stahl Road near the

18:21

spot where Heidi was abducted, and

18:24

his apartment was located only six miles away.

18:28

Neighbor also apparently had ties to the town

18:30

of Wimberley, which was close to where Heidi's

18:32

body was found. In

18:35

addition, Neighbor was known for having

18:37

a creepy fetish for young girls, as

18:39

he would apparently force his adult girlfriend

18:41

to shave her pubic area, wear her

18:43

hair and pigtails, and dress up like

18:46

a prepubescent girl in order to give

18:48

off the appearance of being underage. The

18:51

San Antonio PD wanted to collect

18:53

physical evidence from Neighbor's body, including

18:56

hairs, blood and saliva, but

18:58

when he refused to cooperate, they obtained a

19:00

court order to do so. The

19:03

physical evidence was supposedly going to be

19:05

compared to DNA evidence from Heidi's murder,

19:08

but even though it was reported that the

19:10

results came back negative, there's been

19:12

some confusion about whether or not Neighbor

19:14

was cleared as a suspect. I'll

19:17

be addressing this in more detail later on, but

19:19

no murder charges were ever filed against Neighbor.

19:23

In addition to the witness from Neighbor's

19:25

apartment, there were apparently other people who

19:27

recalled having seen Neighbor with Heidi, but

19:30

since they all had criminal backgrounds, they

19:32

were not considered to be reliable witnesses.

19:36

While by the time Neighbor popped up on the radar

19:38

as a suspect, the Seaman family

19:40

had relocated to Panama City, Florida,

19:43

and Curtis was stationed at Tyndall Air Force

19:45

Base. In May

19:47

of 1996, it was announced that Curtis

19:49

had filed a murder complaint against Major

19:51

Robert Eric Duncan under the

19:54

Uniform Code of Military Justice, which

19:56

allows one soldier to file charges

19:58

against another. This

20:00

would lead to an Article 32 proceeding,

20:02

which is the military equivalent of a

20:05

civilian grand jury, in order

20:07

to determine if Duncan would be court-martialed for

20:09

Heidi's murder. In September

20:11

of that year, the hearing was held

20:13

at Brooks Air Force Base, where Duncan

20:15

was still stationed, but the bases

20:17

commander ruled that the evidence against Duncan

20:19

was insufficient enough to bring him to

20:21

a court-martial, so the murder complaint was

20:24

dropped. In

20:26

August of 2010, the Austin

20:28

American Statesman published an extensive article

20:30

about this case, in which Elizabeth

20:32

Griner, a San Antonio PD cold

20:35

case detective who was handling the

20:37

investigation, confirmed that Robert Eric

20:39

Duncan and Jerry Lee Naber were

20:42

still considered quote-unquote viable targets of

20:44

the probe. However, the

20:46

article made it clear that different

20:48

law enforcement figures from different agencies

20:50

had differing ideas about who the

20:52

perpetrator was. For instance,

20:54

retired Hays County Sheriff Paul Hastings,

20:57

who handled the investigation into the

20:59

discovery of Heidi's body, was

21:01

still convinced that Duncan was the killer,

21:04

while Jimmy Holgene, the former lead investigator

21:06

from the San Antonio PD, expressed

21:09

his belief that Naber murdered Heidi.

21:12

I mentioned earlier that Heidi's murder led

21:14

to the creation of the Heidi Search

21:16

Center, who would spend nearly 30 years

21:18

assisting the families of other missing individuals.

21:21

But unfortunately, in January of 2018, it

21:24

was announced that the Heidi Search Center was

21:26

closing its doors, as there was

21:28

just not enough funding to keep it operational. In

21:31

August of 2020, the San

21:34

Antonio-based TV station KENS5

21:37

produced an extensive 30th anniversary

21:39

segment on the murders of Heidi Seaman and

21:42

Erica Betteo. Curtis

21:44

and Teresa Seaman agreed to be interviewed,

21:46

but even though Curtis had previously filed

21:48

a murder complaint against Duncan, he

21:50

now acknowledged that he was no longer certain

21:52

that Duncan killed his daughter, stating,

21:55

quote, it looked like the case they

21:57

had against him was fairly strong, but the

21:59

SAP didn't believe that. I'm

22:01

not exactly sure why, but what they showed

22:04

us as far as a witness rights briefing,

22:06

you know, I don't know that he did it either. I can't

22:09

say that for sure, but it sure

22:11

did seem like that." However,

22:14

the Batayo family declined to be interviewed

22:16

for the segment, and the San Antonio

22:18

PD also did not wish to discuss

22:21

Erica's murder. Instead, they

22:23

had a spokesperson make this statement,

22:25

quote, I was advised by

22:27

the homicide sergeant that the family does not wish

22:29

to bring light to the case and a vast

22:31

that we not discuss the case with the media.

22:34

We are granting the family's wishes and will

22:36

not be providing the interview. There

22:39

is no information or evidence that anyone

22:41

other than the listed suspects were involved

22:43

in this crime. The case

22:45

is considered closed by arrest, end

22:47

quote. However, the Bexar

22:49

County district attorney did state quote,

22:52

because there is no statute of limitations

22:54

for the offense of capital murder, should

22:57

the investigating agency obtain new evidence and

22:59

file a case with our office for

23:01

review, we could present it to a

23:03

grand jury for possible indictment, end

23:05

quote. By the time

23:08

the Siemens conducted their interview, they had

23:10

already experienced another tragedy as

23:12

Heidi's older sister Heather died

23:15

unexpectedly in 2019. I

23:18

also wanted to mention that Heidi's mother Teresa

23:20

has also apparently passed

23:22

away. Even though I

23:24

could not find an obituary for her, I

23:27

did find one for Heidi's paternal

23:29

grandmother, Anna Marie Seaman, who died

23:31

in April of 2022. And it's said that she was

23:35

preceded in death by her daughter-in-law

23:37

Teresa Seaman. So after

23:39

three decades, the murders of Heidi Seaman

23:41

and Erica Betteo both continue

23:44

to remain unsolved. So

23:46

I guess you could say the trail went

23:48

cold. So

24:16

if you look at the coverage of these

24:19

two cases, you'll find comments from numerous people

24:21

who were living in San Antonio in 1990

24:24

and confirmed that losing Heidi Seaman

24:26

and Erika Bethea within the same

24:28

month was an absolutely terrifying experience.

24:31

Even though San Antonio was already a fairly large

24:33

city at that point, this was

24:35

described as a time period in which the city

24:38

pretty much lost its innocence and

24:40

everyone became afraid to allow their children to

24:42

play outside or walk anywhere on their own.

24:45

Of course, while I'm sure there was some initial

24:47

fear that a serial child predator may have been

24:49

in the area who was abducting young girls, I'll

24:52

state right up front that I do not

24:54

believe these crimes are related and law enforcement

24:56

has always felt the same way. In

24:59

spite of this, the two cases are often

25:01

mentioned alongside each other, though I

25:03

don't think anyone will argue that Heidi

25:05

Seaman's story is much more well known

25:07

than Erika Bethea's. Heidi's

25:10

murder got a lot more media coverage

25:12

and she literally had a non-profit organization

25:15

named after her, while Erika's

25:17

case pretty much faded from the spotlight. You're

25:20

not going to find too many sources

25:22

out there which exclusively focus on Erika's

25:25

murder, as the vast majority of them

25:27

mention her in conjunction with Heidi's case.

25:30

Of course, this has led to discussion about

25:32

the disparity of coverage with certain types of

25:35

victims in the media. While

25:37

Heidi was a white girl from an

25:39

upper middle class family whose father was

25:41

in the Air Force, Erika was a

25:43

Hispanic girl from a lower income area

25:45

whose family was a bit more dysfunctional.

25:48

But I suppose the ironic thing is that

25:50

if Heidi had not been abducted less than

25:53

three weeks earlier and caused such a massive

25:55

search effort within the city, who knows

25:57

if Erika's abduction would have gotten much? if

26:00

any attention at all. Remember,

26:02

Erica's body was ultimately found by

26:04

an airman, and the main

26:06

reason the Air Force even became involved

26:09

in her search effort is because Curtis

26:11

Seaman reached out to provide support to

26:13

the Betayo family and offered to share

26:15

resources from Heidi's search effort with them. But

26:18

there are other factors, and why Heidi's

26:20

coverage got much more coverage than Erica's.

26:24

For starters, three suspects were charged with

26:26

Erica's murder immediately after her body was

26:28

found, so it initially seemed like her

26:30

death was not going to be a

26:33

cold case at all until the grand

26:35

jury elected not to indict these suspects

26:37

months later. And since

26:39

law enforcement seemed certain that these were the

26:41

right guys and there was no need to

26:43

pursue alternate leads, they pretty much

26:45

held the mindset that there wasn't anything

26:47

else they could do unless someone came

26:49

forward with new information. This

26:52

is in sharp contrast to Heidi's murder, where

26:54

no one was named as a potential suspect

26:56

for years. Another

26:58

complicating factor is that even though Heidi's

27:01

parents did everything they could to keep

27:03

their daughter's case in the spotlight and

27:05

raise awareness of her story, there

27:07

were other issues taking place in

27:10

Erica's family, and her mother, Maria

27:12

Betayo, completely shied away from publicity.

27:15

At the time, Maria and her children

27:17

were living with her common law husband,

27:19

Jesus Rodriguez, but this sounded like

27:22

an abusive relationship, as Jesus

27:24

was a very controlling spouse who

27:26

handled all the family business himself,

27:28

including the grocery shopping, and

27:30

kept Maria completely isolated from the world.

27:34

And to give you an idea of what

27:36

a stand-up guy Jesus was, he moved out

27:38

of their apartment the day after Erica's body

27:40

was found, and within a month,

27:42

Maria filed for divorce from him. In

27:45

spite of this, Maria and Jesus would

27:47

continue an on-again, off-again relationship for the

27:49

next two years, but It

27:51

appears that the only reason he stuck

27:54

around is because they filed a $1

27:56

million personal injury lawsuit against the West

27:58

End Baptist Manor apartment. For.

28:00

An incident where Eric, his brother

28:02

was electrocuted when his hand brushed

28:05

against faulty wiring from a lamppost

28:07

and the apartment complexes playground. Which.

28:09

They believe caused him to develop a

28:11

learning disability. Since. This

28:14

incident took place in Nineteen Eighty Seven

28:16

That three year statute of Limitations had

28:18

expired. Bill. Murray it did. It

28:20

actually received seven thousand dollars from a

28:22

settlement. By. That point Maria

28:24

have finalized her divorce with he's He's

28:26

so he got none of that money.

28:29

And. Maria managed to move away and

28:31

start over with her three surviving children.

28:34

As odd as this might sound, Eric.

28:36

As murder actually paved the way for this

28:39

to happen. As. A search effort

28:41

for Erica allow Maria to connect

28:43

with some compassionate people who helped

28:45

her break free from reports of

28:47

relationship and develop some independence. This.

28:50

Included a city councilman the Bob

28:52

Thompson. Who. Helped Maria and her

28:55

family seek new housing and later

28:57

became her divorce lawyer. But.

28:59

Of course, the trauma of losing her

29:02

daughter and having to adjust to living

29:04

on row was pretty overwhelming for Maria.

29:06

Which. Is why she has always stayed away from

29:08

the spotlight and declined to give interviews to

29:10

the media about Iraq Is case. I.

29:13

Have no idea what maria thoughts are, but

29:15

for all we know. Perhaps. He

29:17

believes that the suspects who originally charged with

29:19

this crime back in Ninety Nine where the

29:22

killers, and if there's not much else the

29:24

police can do at this point. Why?

29:26

Keep reliving the trauma. Getting.

29:29

Back to the cases, it appears that

29:31

the murders of Heidi and Erica each

29:33

have their own said a separate suspects.

29:36

And. Since they lived a completely separate

29:38

sections of San Antonio, I. Can

29:40

definitely understand why law enforcement never

29:42

believe the to crimes were connected.

29:45

Scissors. Far less information available about Iraq

29:47

is case I going to start off

29:49

by analyzing her murder before I move

29:51

on to hide his case. I.

29:54

previously mentioned that when kg and

29:56

s t v producer thirtieth

29:58

anniversary new segment these two

30:00

crimes in August of 2020,

30:03

both Erica's family and the San Antonio

30:05

Police Department declined to be interviewed about

30:07

her case, and a police spokesman

30:09

stated, quote, there is no information

30:12

or evidence that anyone other than the

30:14

listed suspects were involved in this crime.

30:17

The case is considered closed by arrest,

30:19

end quote. Well, the term

30:21

closed by arrest is kind of an odd one,

30:24

as the Bexar County District Attorney's Office

30:26

gave their own statement that the door

30:28

is still open to file charges in

30:30

Erica's case if new evidence were to

30:33

surface. What adds

30:35

an extra element of confusion is that

30:37

one of the three suspects who was

30:39

charged with the crime back in 1990

30:42

was publicly exonerated by the District Attorney's

30:44

Office, and I have no idea

30:46

of the current whereabouts of the other two suspects

30:48

or if they're even still alive. I

30:51

get the impression that a lot of details

30:54

about the original arrests were withheld from the

30:56

public, but based on the information

30:58

we do have, here's my interpretation

31:00

of what appeared to have happened. The

31:03

first suspect, Roderick Jerome Springs, was

31:05

actually taken into custody two days

31:08

before Erica's body was found, and

31:11

he was charged with kidnapping, resisting

31:13

arrest, and failing to identify himself

31:15

to police officers. Before

31:17

Erica was abducted, one of

31:19

her friends had seen her talking with a

31:21

man from her apartment window, and I'm guessing

31:24

that the friend identified Springs, but the

31:26

authorities would not file capital murder charges

31:28

against him until they could confirm Erica

31:30

was dead. Now, we

31:32

know that Springs suffered from paranoid schizophrenia

31:35

and had a history of assault,

31:37

so I'm guessing that he did not react well

31:40

to the police's attempts to question him, and

31:42

this is what led to the resisting arrest charge.

31:45

A few days later, the second

31:48

suspect, Sherman Bedford III, was charged

31:50

with capital murder, and while

31:52

I'm not sure if Erica's friend or

31:54

any other witnesses placed Bedford at the

31:56

abduction scene, investigators seem to believe that

31:58

he drove the car into the hospital. Getaway car

32:00

after springs grabbed Erica. We.

32:03

Know that Erica was eventually found in a

32:06

storm drain less than a mile away from

32:08

her apartment. The. While I have no

32:10

idea where these two guys supposedly tucker and

32:12

killed her. The. Medical examiner did not

32:14

believe Erica was a lie for very

32:17

long after she was abducted. Now

32:20

it sounds like a third suspect Kenneth

32:22

Rural Pope. Was. Charged with murder

32:24

based solely on the fact that Bedford

32:26

implicated him as an accomplice. And. This

32:28

is where the investigation becomes problematic.

32:31

Bedford. Only had an I Q A fifty

32:33

three. And. It's been alleged that the police

32:35

course to me to make a confession. As.

32:38

Situation you will find in numerous

32:40

wrongful conviction cases. While.

32:42

It's still possible that Bedford was involved

32:44

in this crime. It. Seems clear

32:47

that he falsely implicated Pope as not

32:49

only with the charges against Pope robbed,

32:51

but the District Attorney's office did publicly

32:53

clear him and flat out stated that

32:55

he had nothing to do with Eric

32:57

his murder. I.

32:59

Read one source which said that it was

33:02

established that Pope had an alibi placing him

33:04

at work that day, and it was an

33:06

unfortunate situation that he was dragged into this

33:08

whole ordeal. I wish we

33:10

had more details about the relationships between

33:13

Springs Bedford and Pope. As

33:15

Springs was only seventeen years old. And

33:17

I'm not sure why he would be

33:19

participating in the abduction and murder of

33:21

a child with one or more individuals

33:23

who read the early thirties. But.

33:26

Even if Springs and Bedford were guilty

33:28

all along. The. Fact that investigators

33:30

supposedly course them into implicating an

33:32

innocent man is a major. A

33:35

red flag. Years. Later.

33:38

Pope. Actually made an attempt to sue

33:40

the City of San Antonio for violating

33:42

his civil rights, but the lawsuit was

33:44

unsuccessful. So. I'm sure there might

33:47

have been evidence against Springs in Bedford which

33:49

was not disclosed to the public. But.

33:51

Regardless, the case against them wasn't

33:53

sufficient enough for a great read.

33:55

A handout murder indictments. From.

33:57

The information We do know it's.

34:00

Like the primary evidence was a

34:02

possibly questionable confessor from Bedford. And.

34:04

Eric, his friend, identifying Springs as

34:07

a match he saw with Erica

34:09

outside the apartment complex. Or.

34:11

We know that I with this identification

34:13

can often be unreliable, particularly when the

34:16

witness is a seven year old child.

34:18

So. I'm sure this girl's testimony was not

34:21

strong enough to take Springs to trial.

34:24

After the charges were dropped and both

34:26

member release from jail. Bedford.

34:28

You seem to drop out of sight. But.

34:30

In January of Ninety Eighty Four. Springs.

34:32

His mother father missing persons report for

34:35

him. After. He stopped taking his

34:37

medication and took off from their home.

34:40

He. Was later found a happy to rip

34:42

away the shutters and screen from an

34:44

elderly woman's bedroom window in the East

34:46

side of San Antonio. And. After

34:48

she called the police and officer found

34:51

springs at a nearby bus stop. When.

34:53

The officer approached Springs are violent

34:56

struggle ensued which led both men

34:58

with injuries and Springs was charged

35:00

with attempted burglary with intent to

35:02

commit theft and resisting arrest. However,

35:05

The charges were later dropped after it

35:07

was ruled that Springs does not mentally

35:09

competent to stand trial. And I

35:11

have no idea what happened to him afterward. It.

35:14

Really does seem like after all

35:16

these years, the San Antonio Pd

35:18

still believes that Springs and Bedford

35:20

were responsible for Iraq as murder.

35:23

But. While that very well may be true, The

35:25

questionable nature of the original investigation

35:28

and the vulnerability of the two

35:30

suspects has less some doubt. Had.

35:33

Even if they are both guilty. Would.

35:35

It still be possible to build a strong

35:37

enough case against them at this point to

35:39

secure a conviction at trial. One.

35:41

Crucial aspect of this case. I'm still not

35:44

clear about. Is. How much if

35:46

any Dna evidence is available?

35:48

As. Aca conclusively like a suspect

35:50

to describe even if they are

35:53

already deceased. But. Law

35:55

enforcement is never confirmed or denied

35:57

This. And. they may simply have the

35:59

mindset that Springs and Bedford were the

36:01

right guys all along, and without

36:03

any further corroborating evidence, there's just

36:06

simply nothing else they can do.

36:08

Whatever the case, all we can really

36:10

do is keep Erica's story in the spotlight

36:12

and hope that it might lead to a

36:14

resolution someday. So

36:17

now we're going to move on to discussing Heidi's

36:19

case, which is a lot more complex, considering

36:22

that different investigative agencies seem to

36:24

have differing ideas about who is

36:26

actually responsible for this crime. One

36:30

of the main reasons that Heidi's abduction haunted

36:32

so many people is that it

36:34

appeared to take place within a split second, demonstrating

36:37

that it's possible for something like this

36:39

to happen to anyone at any time.

36:42

As you recall, Heidi was in

36:44

the midst of walking home and parted ways with

36:46

her friend Whitney, but Whitney said

36:48

that as she was heading in the opposite

36:50

direction, she briefly turned her head around and

36:53

noticed that Heidi was suddenly gone. I

36:56

don't think it's much of a mystery what happened here,

36:58

as it seems obvious that the

37:00

male driver of the red car

37:02

which passed down the street multiple

37:04

times was responsible for Heidi's abduction

37:07

and they managed to speed out of the area

37:09

before Whitney saw anything. The

37:12

only thing we don't know is the identity

37:14

of this driver, and figuring that

37:16

out has proven to be quite a challenge.

37:19

While Erica's body was found less than a mile

37:21

away from where she was abducted, whoever

37:24

killed Heidi went to the trouble

37:26

of disposing her body 60 miles

37:28

outside San Antonio. So

37:31

could this mean that the perpetrator did not

37:33

live in the San Antonio area? Or

37:36

did they make a calculated choice to drive

37:38

that far in order to put some distance

37:40

between the crime and themselves? After

37:43

all, Heidi's disappearance was subject to

37:45

a massive search effort, so

37:47

it definitely would have been in the killer's

37:49

best interest to dump her body at a

37:51

spot way outside San Antonio. This

37:54

Also could have created potential jurisdictional

37:56

issues as it was the Hays

37:58

County Sheriff's Office. We'd. Best a

38:00

gated the discovery of hide his body. And

38:03

it still never been conclusively established where

38:05

she was killed. Even

38:08

though the medical examiner was unable to

38:10

determine highs exact time of death. The.

38:12

Estimated that he been alive no more

38:14

than forty eight hours after she was

38:16

abducted. However, there is

38:18

one piece of evidence which doesn't get

38:21

discussed all that much. As suggests

38:23

that highly me a bit. he captivity for

38:25

a window of time before she was killed.

38:29

During my research I found a

38:31

slight you about this case at

38:33

the website My San antonio.com. Which.

38:35

Mention that at the time she was

38:38

abducted. Heidi was dressed in a t

38:40

shirt, shorts, White Sox, and tennis shoes.

38:42

And was carrying a bag containing the night

38:45

close he had worn during your sleep over

38:47

at Wendy's house. Or. When hide

38:49

his body was found three weeks later

38:51

she was dressed only in or night

38:53

shirt and socks. I. Had

38:55

seen as detail about the nature mentioned

38:57

anywhere else. But. Then I found

38:59

a true crime podcast called The Rap Sheet.

39:02

Which. Is co hosted by Thomas Edwards

39:04

are retired crime reporter from the

39:06

San Antonio Express News. was easily

39:08

has a lot of first hand

39:10

knowledge of hide his murder. A.

39:13

One of his episodes about the case,

39:15

Edwards read from the original autopsy report

39:17

and confirmed that Hi was only wearing

39:19

her night shirt and socks when she

39:22

was found. It did not even

39:24

have any underwear on. He

39:26

also mentioned that are brown men sock with

39:28

duct tape on it was founded the senior

39:31

hide his body and may have been used

39:33

as a. But. I'll talk more about

39:35

that detail later on. It's.

39:37

Never been made clear to me if the

39:39

rest Api Is clothing was ever found. But.

39:42

It is odd that you would be clad in

39:44

a different piece of clothing the what she was

39:46

wearing at the time of her abduction. Even.

39:49

If the killer undressed Heidi and sexually

39:51

assaulted her. Why? Go to the

39:53

trouble of putting the night shirts back on her body.

39:57

Could. this mean she was held in captivity

39:59

and seed clothing at some point? It's

40:01

a point worth discussing since as we're going

40:04

to talk about momentarily, a

40:06

witness had reported seeing Heidi inside the

40:08

apartment of one of the suspects. So

40:11

over the past three decades, only two

40:13

men have been publicly named as suspects,

40:16

and they could be more polar opposites.

40:19

Major Robert Eric Duncan, a married

40:21

man with children who was enlisted in the

40:23

Air Force and played a prominent role in

40:25

the search effort, and Jerry

40:27

Lee Naver, a career criminal with a

40:30

history of meth issues and creepy behavior.

40:33

Obviously, if you were to compare the backgrounds

40:35

of both men, Naver appears to

40:37

be a far more likely candidate to be

40:39

the killer, but Duncan

40:41

has received more publicity. What's

40:44

crazy about this whole situation is

40:46

that Duncan became the president of

40:48

the Heidi Search Center, and

40:50

if he is guilty, then this

40:52

might be the only documented case that

40:55

I know of where a killer wound

40:57

up running a non-profit organization named after

40:59

the victim they murdered, which is all

41:01

sorts and messed up. Since

41:04

Duncan was so active in the original search effort

41:06

for Heidi, it would definitely be

41:08

the ultimate act of misdirection to dispose

41:10

of her body at a location such

41:12

a great distance away from the search

41:14

area. But let's look at

41:17

the case against each of these men and start

41:19

with Duncan. One

41:22

of the biggest complications with this whole

41:24

situation is that while the Air Force

41:26

Office of Special Investigations put all their

41:28

focus on Duncan, the San

41:30

Antonio Police Department were not entirely

41:32

convinced and were dealing with

41:35

two different justice systems here. To

41:37

recap, Duncan was first named

41:39

as a suspect in March of 1992, but

41:41

there was not enough evidence to file charges

41:44

against him. In February of 1996,

41:47

the San Antonio PD started looking at

41:49

Naver as a suspect, and it

41:51

seemed like Duncan might be on his way to

41:53

having his name cleared, but then in May,

41:56

Curtis Seaman filed a murder complaint against Duncan

41:58

under the University of California. form code

42:00

of military justice. Now

42:03

obviously, this sort of thing would

42:05

not happen in a civilian murder

42:07

investigation as a victim's family can't

42:09

just decide to file a murder complaint against

42:11

the suspect and have the case against them

42:13

taken to a grand jury. Duncan

42:16

had actually been on the verge of retiring from

42:18

the Air Force during this time period, but

42:20

the whole process was put on administrative

42:23

hold so an Article 32 hearing

42:25

could take place to decide if Duncan would

42:27

stand in front of a court-martial. I

42:30

mean, I can understand why Curtis would

42:32

do this and attempt to go after

42:34

the man he believed murdered his daughter,

42:37

but it's very odd timing that this would happen

42:39

when the San Antonio PD were looking

42:42

at an entirely different suspect. What

42:45

if Duncan had been given a court-martial

42:47

and then the police suddenly uncovered new

42:49

evidence which pointed towards neighbor? If

42:52

either of these men went on trial, I

42:54

would think the fact that a

42:56

different investigative agency was simultaneously looking

42:58

at another suspect would have the

43:01

potential to create reasonable doubt. Curtis

43:04

has said that even though he was convinced

43:06

at the time that Duncan was the killer,

43:08

he is no longer certain. I

43:11

know that after Duncan was first named as

43:13

a suspect in 1992, it would have a

43:15

very negative impact on his life. As

43:18

an example, the local YMCA asked

43:20

him to resign as volunteer coach

43:23

of his son's basketball team. Duncan

43:26

and his family eventually relocated to

43:28

Virginia, but in July of

43:30

2007, he made the news again

43:33

after an elementary school in Charlottesville was

43:35

planning to hire his wife, Deborah Duncan,

43:37

to be their new principal, but

43:39

then suddenly pulled their offer

43:41

for what they described as

43:44

quote-unquote unforeseen circumstances. While

43:46

the school board never officially confirmed this,

43:48

Duncan believed they had found out he

43:50

was a murder suspect and wanted nothing

43:52

to do with his family. At

43:55

one point, Duncan said he was planning to write

43:57

a book about Heidi's case in order to share

43:59

with him. his side of the story, but

44:01

it was never completed. If

44:03

Duncan's wife was still with him at that

44:06

point, then she obviously didn't think there was

44:08

any truth to the accusations that he was

44:10

a murderer. So if he

44:12

was innocent, then you have to feel bad

44:14

that she lost a job over this whole

44:16

situation and that this case has essentially ruined

44:18

Duncan's life. So

44:21

why did Duncan pop up on the radar as a

44:23

suspect to begin with? Well,

44:25

Jerry Goldstein, an attorney Duncan had

44:27

hired, would tell the press, quote,

44:30

if you recall, he was very active in the

44:32

search for the young victim, and

44:34

sometimes, whether it's justified or not, the

44:37

investigators, and this happens in the civilian

44:39

world just as much as in the

44:41

military, that makes you a target, end

44:43

quote. Another law

44:46

enforcement figure who believed that Duncan was the

44:48

killer was Hayes County Sheriff

44:50

Paul Hastings, and this

44:52

was based largely on some strange phone

44:54

calls Duncan made to his newspaper reporter

44:56

wife, Patty Hastings. On

44:58

the surface, it might not seem unusual that

45:01

someone so involved in the search effort for

45:03

Heidi would ask her so many questions, but

45:06

Patty thought that Duncan seemed way too

45:08

obsessive about the whole situation and was

45:10

creeped out when he started talking about

45:13

these weird dreams he had about Heidi,

45:15

which prompted Patty's editor to

45:17

start calling him a, quote, unquote,

45:19

fruitcake. Paul and

45:21

Patty Hastings have since passed away,

45:24

but while Sheriff Hastings may have

45:26

had some inherent bias over the

45:28

whole situation, this means that another

45:30

investigative agency besides the San Antonio

45:32

PD are convinced that Duncan is

45:34

the killer. Now,

45:36

there are certainly documented cases of people

45:39

becoming suspects in a murder because they

45:41

seem to have an unhealthy obsession with

45:43

the crime, such as Steve Panky and

45:45

the Janelle Matthews case. I've

45:48

watched contemporary footage of a few TV

45:50

interviews Duncan conducted during the 1990s,

45:53

and on the surface, he seems like

45:55

an ordinary enough guy, and I don't

45:57

get any outwardly creepy vibes from him.

46:00

But when Duncan became president of the Heidi

46:02

Search Center, he resigned from

46:04

the position after being voted out during

46:07

the summer of 1991, and I'd be

46:09

curious to learn more details about this.

46:12

Did he do or say anything which compelled the center

46:14

to get rid of him? The

46:17

other reason Duncan popped up on the

46:19

radar is because a former coworker of

46:21

his told the OSI that Duncan had

46:24

allegedly threatened to quote unquote get even

46:26

with Curtis because he caused him to

46:28

lose his supervisory position at Randolph Air

46:31

Force Base and be transferred out. Heidi's

46:34

murder just happened to take place on

46:36

the weekend between when Duncan left Randolph

46:38

and started his new position at Brooks

46:41

Air Force Base. When

46:43

asked about his whereabouts on the morning Heidi

46:45

went missing, Duncan said he was at

46:47

home but I'm not sure if he had

46:49

any witnesses to verify this. The

46:52

driver of the red car which likely

46:54

abducted Heidi was described as being a

46:56

white or Hispanic male with dark hair

46:58

and a mustache and while Duncan matched

47:00

that description so did millions of other

47:03

men in the United States at that

47:05

time and I doubt that

47:07

Heidi's friend Whitney got a good enough look

47:09

at the driver to make a positive identification.

47:13

Whitney also did not provide a make, model

47:15

or license number for the red car but

47:18

she did describe it as having tinted windows

47:20

and a thin red stripe and

47:22

Duncan was apparently driving a car like that at

47:24

the time. But there

47:26

really isn't any slam dunk evidence to

47:28

indicate that Duncan was responsible for this

47:30

crime. I have to

47:33

say that I do have issues with the alleged

47:35

motive that Duncan murdered Heidi as

47:37

revenge against Curtis for getting him transferred.

47:40

For starters, Duncan has always denied that he

47:42

ever said he would get even with Curtis

47:44

and even though Curtis has given a number

47:46

of interviews over the years, I've

47:48

never actually heard him or anyone else

47:50

confirm that he played a role in

47:52

Duncan losing his position or if there

47:54

were any serious issues between them. And

47:57

even if the two men did dislike each other, I think that's a good point.

48:00

Would Duncan really go so far as to

48:02

murder an innocent child over the whole situation?

48:06

The guy was a father with two children of his

48:08

own, so this just seems like

48:10

an incredibly extreme reaction to a workplace

48:12

dispute. Another

48:14

issue is that Heidi had slept over at Whitney's

48:17

house and was in the midst of walking home

48:19

when she was abducted. If

48:21

this was a pre-meditated revenge scheme, how

48:23

could Duncan have known that Heidi would

48:25

be on this particular road at this

48:28

particular time? With

48:30

circumstances of how Heidi was abducted, do

48:32

seem to point towards a random predator passing

48:35

through the area who just happened

48:37

to notice Heidi and decided to go

48:39

after her once she separated from Whitney.

48:42

Look, I'm not going to say with

48:44

absolute certainty that Duncan didn't commit this

48:46

crime, as there may be more

48:49

information we don't know about which makes him

48:51

a compelling suspect. One

48:53

detail I mentioned earlier which could point

48:55

towards him is the brown sock found

48:58

near Heidi's body, as brown is a

49:00

color of sock you would typically

49:02

expect to see worn with Air Force

49:04

uniforms. It seems obvious

49:07

the sock did not belong to Heidi, and I

49:09

would love to know if it has ever been

49:11

tested for DNA. But

49:13

speaking of DNA, let's start

49:15

discussing Jerry Lee's neighbor as

49:18

there's been some confusion about whether or not

49:20

he is still a viable suspect. He

49:23

certainly fits the profile of someone you would expect

49:25

to commit a crime like this, and

49:27

while I'm not sure if he was ever

49:29

charged or accused of any other crimes against

49:31

children, the stories of his

49:33

attempts to fetishize his girlfriend by getting

49:35

her to act like a little girl

49:38

are incredibly creepy. As

49:40

a side note, it's been reported that

49:42

neighbor was also investigated as a potential

49:45

suspect in another famous cold case. The

49:48

abduction and murder of three-year-old Rachel

49:50

Runyon, which took place in

49:52

Sunset, Utah in August of 1982,

49:55

but it doesn't look like this went anywhere. What

49:58

we do know is that neighbor operated an

50:00

auto repair shop on Stahl Road where

50:02

Heidi was last seen and he lived

50:04

in an apartment only six miles away

50:07

so I could definitely see a situation

50:09

unfolding where he was passing through

50:11

the area and just happened to notice

50:13

Heidi and then felt compelled to abduct

50:15

her. One detail which isn't

50:17

so clear is whether or not neighbor owned

50:19

a red car in 1990

50:22

but even if he didn't could he have

50:24

possibly had access to one at his auto

50:26

repair shop? The

50:29

main reason neighbor became a suspect in

50:32

1996 is because of a witness

50:34

who claimed he had seen a girl tied to

50:36

a chair in neighbor's apartment during the time period

50:38

when Heidi went missing. Needless

50:40

to say there were a lot of issues

50:42

with this witness's story not only because they

50:44

apparently had a criminal record but because they

50:46

waited five and a half years to come

50:48

forward. You can understand

50:51

the frustration because if the story was true

50:53

and this witness had immediately gone to the

50:55

police perhaps she could have been saved

50:57

before neighbor murdered her and even

51:00

if the witness was also a criminal and

51:02

a terrible person would neighbor really be so

51:04

brazen as to put a captive girl on

51:06

display like that when he had a visitor

51:09

to his apartment? Remember

51:11

the original search effort for Heidi was a

51:13

huge story back then and there was even

51:15

a reward being offered for information so

51:18

it definitely would not have been a neighbor's best interest

51:20

to do this But on the

51:22

other hand I'm sure the witness was

51:24

aware that if they went to the authorities

51:26

after so many years of remaining silent They

51:28

would face a major negative backlash. So why

51:31

make up a story like that if it

51:33

wasn't true? By that

51:35

point neighbor was incarcerated on drug

51:37

charges. So maybe this witness felt

51:39

more comfortable enough to contact the

51:41

authorities It's also

51:44

been reported that there were apparently other

51:46

witnesses who had seen neighbor and Heidi

51:48

together But they were not deemed to

51:50

be credible due to their own criminal histories Part

51:53

of me does hope that this story is not

51:55

true As it's horrifying to think of

51:58

Heidi being held in captivity. And

52:00

abuse like that for a prolonged period of

52:02

time. But. Now we have

52:04

to talk about whether or not neighbor was

52:06

eliminated as a suspect by a Dna evidence.

52:09

We. Know that hairs blood libel where take

52:11

it from? I'm in Nineteen Eighty Six

52:13

and the results from the Dna comparison

52:16

t back negative. But. There have been

52:18

many sources since then. Such. As the

52:20

aforementioned Austin American Statesman article from

52:22

Two Thousand and Ten. Which.

52:24

State that Neighbor is still a

52:26

viable suspect and formerly detective to

52:29

behold. He has repeatedly stated that

52:31

he's convinced Neighbor was the guy.

52:34

Will. You have to remember that this

52:36

original testing took place nearly thirty years

52:38

ago, a Dna profiling as a ball

52:41

and advance so much since then. So.

52:43

Even if none of the physical evidence matched Aber

52:46

at the time, That. May not

52:48

necessarily mean he was excluded. Furthermore,

52:51

We really don't know anything about the

52:53

quantity over quality of the Dna evidence.

52:56

Or his body was decompose when she

52:59

was found and says they could conclusively

53:01

determine if she was sexually assaulted. I'm

53:03

guessing there wasn't any seem and left

53:05

behind by the perpetrator. I.

53:07

Have heard that hairs and carpet textile

53:09

fibers for found in the dirt on

53:12

retirees body and collected as evidence. So.

53:14

Perhaps this was used to make a

53:16

forensic comparison with neighbor and came back

53:18

negative. Some. Of the

53:20

other items found at the scene such

53:22

as the garbage bags, robes duct tape

53:25

and brown sought. Could. Be a

53:27

source a potential Dna. But. I'm

53:29

not sure if they've ever been tested. Overall.

53:32

While a compelling case could be made that

53:34

either Duncan or Neighbor is the killer. Capella

53:37

cases can also be made for neither of

53:39

them been a killer has well, Well.

53:42

Dot and As Good T to pop up in

53:44

the spotlight in the years following the crime. I

53:46

have no idea of neighbors current whereabouts are

53:48

if he is even still alive. For.

53:51

All we know, perhaps neither of these

53:53

men are guilty and the real perpetrator

53:55

as a suspect who is managed to

53:57

say off the radar these past three

53:59

decades. Remember. Jack

54:01

Campbell the ranch moved out hide

54:03

his body. Have. Reported seeing a

54:06

white convertible driving through the area

54:08

six days earlier. Which. Contained two

54:10

men. And. Will. It's possible they

54:12

were nothing more than innocent bystanders. Campbell.

54:15

Said this was a row which ordinarily did

54:17

not get a lot of traffic. I.

54:19

Do have the same feeling of

54:21

uncertainty with Erica The Tails Murders

54:24

because even though law enforcement still

54:26

seem certain that Roderick Springs and

54:28

Sherman Bedford where the perpetrators, I

54:30

don't have enough information to say

54:32

with any inclusiveness if these were

54:34

the right guys, The.

54:36

Only thing I'm fairly certain of

54:38

is that these crimes are probably

54:41

unrelated and reach committed by different

54:43

perpetrators. And it's just a coincidence that

54:45

they have had to take place in the same

54:47

city so close to each other. But.

54:49

Until an arrest is made, it one or

54:52

both of these cases. They. Will always

54:54

remain linked together. And. Their loved

54:56

ones deserve the finally received justice.

55:00

Heidi Siemens Murray Desiccation is currently

55:02

being handled by the Texas Rangers,

55:04

so if you have any information

55:06

about her case, please contact them

55:08

at the Texas Department of Public

55:10

Safety Is Missing Persons Hotline at

55:12

One Eight Hundred Three Four Six

55:14

Three to Four Three. That's

55:16

one Eight hundred, three four six, three

55:18

to four three. And if

55:20

you haven't had any information on the murder of Eric,

55:23

have a tail. Please. Contact: The

55:25

San Antonio Police Department. Had Two:

55:27

One Zero Two Zero Seven Seven

55:29

to Seven Three. As. Two

55:31

One Zero. Two O Seven Seven To

55:34

Seven Three. You. Can also

55:36

contact the Texas Crime Stoppers hotline

55:38

for either of these cases. A

55:40

One, eight hundred to five two

55:42

tests. That's one eight hundred

55:44

to five to eight, four seven seven.

55:47

But. If you have your own thoughts about

55:49

what happened, feel free to leave me

55:51

a comment or send email to Robin.wider

55:53

had I cloud.com. As. Robin.wider

55:56

had I cloud.com. Nother.

55:59

reminder that the pray Trail When Cold is

56:01

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past month, I actually released a bonus episode about

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56:28

is technically our podcast's very first

56:30

edition of The Trail Revisited. I've

56:33

hovered that story all the way back on

56:35

episode number 4 nearly eight years ago, but

56:38

since I've learned a ton of new information

56:40

in recent years, I decided to take a

56:42

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an entirely new episode. I've

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also dropped an exclusive bonus episode from my

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you all so much for your support! And

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before moving this episode to a close,

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