4:00

disappearances. Anyway

4:02

before we get started just a quick

4:04

reminder that the trail went cold is

4:06

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4:49

with all that out of the way let us now

4:52

start off by exploring the disappearances

4:54

of Cecilia Newball and Renee Perez.

5:15

Our first story begins in Los Angeles

5:17

in 1994 and our first two victims

5:19

are 32 year old Cecilia

5:22

Newball and her six year old son

5:24

Renee Perez Jr. Originally

5:26

born in El Salvador under the

5:28

name Cecilia Amaya, Cecilia immigrated

5:31

to the United States and eventually

5:33

got married to her first husband

5:35

Renee Perez Sr. before giving

5:37

birth to their son Renee Jr. on February

5:39

the 16th 1988. The marriage

5:43

between Cecilia and Renee Sr. would

5:45

not last and soon ended in

5:47

divorce but in 1991 she became

5:49

involved in a relationship with a

5:51

man named Alfredo Newball who worked

5:54

as a nurse's assistant at a

5:56

hospital slash retirement home which specifically

5:58

housed members of the family. five-year-old

16:00

son, Alex Hernandez. Much

16:03

like Cecilia Nubol, Evelyn Hernandez was an

16:05

immigrant from El Salvador who lived in

16:07

San Francisco with her son, though

16:10

she was no longer involved in a relationship with

16:12

the boy's father. Evelyn

16:15

was also pregnant with a second son

16:17

whom she was planning to name Fernando

16:19

and was only six days away from

16:21

giving birth until she and Alex vanished

16:23

without a trace in May of 2002.

16:26

A few months later, Evelyn's legs

16:28

and decomposed torso washed up on

16:31

shore along San Francisco Bay but

16:33

to this day neither Alex nor

16:35

the fetus of Evelyn's unborn son

16:37

Fernando have ever been found. It

16:41

turned out that Fernando's biological father was

16:43

Herman Aguilera, a married man whom Evelyn

16:45

was having an affair with and

16:47

while he obviously seemed like a very compelling

16:50

suspect who had a motive to commit this

16:52

crime, no evidence has ever been

16:54

found to implicate him. Now

16:56

during my original trail when cold

16:58

episode, I talked about how the

17:00

Hernandez case would be overshadowed several

17:02

months later by the murder of Lacey

17:05

Peterson and her unborn son Connor

17:07

whose remains would also be found washed

17:09

up on shore in San Francisco

17:11

Bay. And as I'm sure you know

17:14

Lacey's husband Scott Peterson was eventually

17:16

charged and convicted of killing them.

17:19

A lot has been made about the fact that

17:21

Evelyn and Alex Hernandez only received

17:24

a small fraction of the media coverage

17:26

that the Peterson case received but

17:28

when all is said and done the

17:30

Hernandez case still wound up getting more

17:32

coverage than the disappearances of Cecilia Nubal

17:35

and Renee Perez. Yes

17:37

this case did receive national exposure

17:39

when it was featured in Unsolved

17:41

Mysteries but frustratingly other than

17:44

a handful of articles in the Los

17:46

Angeles Times from 1994 there

17:48

is very little information available about this

17:50

story. I'm not sure it has

17:52

received any coverage at all since 1995 and there seems to be

17:54

a disturbing

17:57

lack of urgency about the disappearance of

17:59

a president. her

20:00

dad because he wasn't doing well at that

20:02

time, and he does come across as

20:04

sincere when he's saying this. And

20:07

like I just mentioned, Alfredo also allowed

20:09

René Perez Sr. to move in with

20:11

them, and they apparently developed a close

20:14

relationship. In addition to

20:16

being brazen, that would also be quite risky

20:18

for Alfredo to do if he was guilty,

20:21

as René Sr. would be in a

20:23

much better position to notice if Alfredo

20:25

did anything suspicious or incriminating. As

20:28

for René Sr., even though there is

20:30

virtually no information out there about him

20:32

or his previous marriage to Cecilia,

20:35

I see nothing to indicate that he was ever

20:37

considered to be a suspect. So

20:41

when I first watched the Unsolved Mysteries segment

20:43

many years ago, my initial impression

20:45

is that the police, as well

20:47

as Cecilia's friend Kevin Annabel, may

20:49

have developed tunnel vision about Alfredo, as

20:52

there really wasn't anything to point to his

20:54

involvement, other than their perception

20:56

that he didn't seem concerned or emotional

20:58

enough when he discovered that Cecilia and

21:00

René were missing. But

21:03

if Alfredo was actually having an affair

21:05

at that time, and did not tell

21:07

anyone about it, then that obviously looks

21:09

more suspicious. I have

21:11

seen a few comments online on Reddit

21:13

and the Unsolved Mysteries website from

21:16

someone who alleges that Alfredo was having

21:18

an affair with two women back then

21:20

because he didn't like how Cecilia's body

21:22

looked when she was pregnant. I

21:25

have no idea if this is actually true, but

21:27

the alternate scenario which has been pushed forward

21:30

is that even if Alfredo was not

21:32

directly responsible for what happened to Cecilia

21:34

and René, he may have known

21:36

who was, or at the very least,

21:39

was not forthcoming about everything he knew.

21:41

Well obviously, some

21:43

seeds for this whole affair angle were

21:45

planted six months before Cecilia went missing

21:48

after she received a phone call from

21:50

an anonymous female who claimed she

21:52

had a video of Alfredo kissing another woman

21:54

at a baby shower. But

21:57

even though Cecilia was apparently up

22:00

a meeting with the caller to view the tape,

22:02

this never came to fruition. The

22:05

main source of this story is

22:07

Cecilia's friend, Cammie Jackamy, as Cecilia obviously

22:10

told her about the call, but

22:12

it's not clear to me if she ever told

22:14

Alfredo or confronted him about it. If

22:17

Alfredo never learned about this call until

22:20

after Cecilia went missing, and she was

22:22

still with him six months later, then

22:24

this might indicate that she did not

22:26

take the call all that seriously and

22:28

was not suspicious about Alfredo possibly being

22:30

involved with another woman. Now

22:33

the second anonymous phone call Cecilia received

22:35

in the days prior to her disappearance

22:37

is a lot more interesting, though

22:40

it's never been conclusively established if this

22:42

female caller was the same woman who

22:44

phoned about the kissing video. As

22:47

you recall, this woman said she was a

22:49

co-worker of Alfredo's and wanted Cecilia to pick

22:52

out some baby furniture that was going to

22:54

be a gift for Alfredo at a surprise

22:56

baby shower. But since

22:58

no shower was ever planned and none

23:01

of Alfredo's co-workers made such a call

23:03

and the woman's meeting with Cecilia was

23:05

scheduled to take place on the same

23:08

day she went missing, there are nothing

23:10

but alarm bells here. It's definitely compelling

23:12

to believe that this call was an

23:15

elaborate setup and the unidentified woman was

23:17

responsible for Cecilia and Renee's disappearances. If

23:20

Alfredo had been the one who shared this

23:23

story about the female caller, I might be

23:25

a bit more skeptical and wonder if he

23:27

was fabricating the whole thing in order to

23:29

divert suspicion away from himself. But

23:32

the source of this story was Cammy, who would

23:34

have no reason to make this up, and

23:36

if Cecilia really believed that Alfredo would

23:38

be receiving a surprise baby shower, then

23:40

you can see why she wouldn't tell

23:42

him about this woman beforehand. If

23:45

you're wondering if police ever checked phone records

23:47

to determine where this call originated from, I

23:50

unfortunately do not have that information.

23:54

If they determined that the call was made from a

23:56

public payphone or something and did not turn out to

23:58

be a useful lead, invest in the public payphone. investigators

24:00

have never said so. Since

24:03

there was no evidence to indicate that

24:05

foul play took place inside Cecilia's apartment,

24:08

I doubt that either she or Renee were

24:10

murdered there. If

24:12

this whole thing was a setup, it's reasonable

24:14

to assume that the woman lured Cecilia to

24:16

another location under the pretense

24:18

of having her pick out baby furniture before

24:21

she was harmed. However,

24:23

I also think it's possible that the

24:25

caller was only planning on killing Cecilia,

24:27

but may have been taken by complete

24:29

surprise when Cecilia decided to bring Renee

24:31

along to their meetup. Since

24:34

Renee was now a witness, the perpetrator may

24:36

have considered him to be collateral damage and

24:38

killed him too, before disposing

24:41

of both victims' bodies. So

24:44

if this anonymous female caller was responsible

24:47

for what happened, there are a number

24:49

of possible motives. If

24:51

you believe this woman was unconnected

24:53

to Alfredo, and he legitimately knows

24:55

nothing about the disappearances, one

24:58

potential theory is that Cecilia could have been

25:00

the victim of a fetal abduction. As

25:03

horrifying as that whole concept is,

25:05

there are documented cases of pregnant

25:07

women being murdered and having their

25:09

unborn fetus forcibly extracted from their

25:12

body through a crude cesarean section.

25:15

In some of these cases, the perpetrator was

25:17

a woman who wanted a child and would

25:19

go to the trouble of committing murder in

25:21

order to steal another woman's fetus to pass

25:23

off as their own. One

25:26

example of this took place in Fresno, California

25:28

just four years later in September of 1998,

25:32

when 40-year-old Margarita Flores, who was

25:34

eight months pregnant, was lured to

25:36

a warehouse by another woman named

25:38

Josephina Sonia Saldana, who was posing

25:40

as a charity worker and said

25:42

she was going to give Flores

25:44

some free baby furniture and a

25:46

one-year supply of diapers. But

25:49

of course, this was an elaborate setup,

25:51

as Flores was murdered by Saldana and

25:53

became the victim of a fetal abduction,

25:55

though the fetus did not wind up

25:57

surviving the ordeal. Given

26:00

the circumstances, I could see a similar

26:02

scenario unfolding in which Cecilia was targeted

26:04

because she was 8 ½

26:07

months pregnant and the woman lured

26:09

Cecilia to a meetup for the purposes

26:11

of stealing her fetus. And

26:13

like I just mentioned, if Cecilia brought

26:15

Renee along with her, he may have

26:17

become collateral damage. If

26:20

this is what happened, then the woman

26:22

probably had some knowledge of Cecilia's personal

26:24

life if she knew who Alfredo was

26:26

and could pass herself off as his

26:28

coworker. However, there are a

26:31

number of holes in the fetal abduction theory.

26:34

For starters, Cecilia's Jeep was found parked on

26:36

the street outside her apartment and if she

26:38

was lured to a meeting somewhere, you'd think

26:41

she would have driven there. That

26:44

means someone else would likely have to go to

26:46

the trouble of returning the Jeep to the apartment

26:48

as well as leaving Cecilia's wedding

26:50

and engagement rings inside and forging

26:52

her signature on a goodbye greeting

26:54

card in order to give off

26:56

the false impression that Cecilia left

26:58

voluntarily. But if

27:00

the motive for the crime was fetal abduction, would

27:03

the perpetrator really go to the trouble of doing

27:05

this, in addition to mailing

27:07

out a false, typewritten letter about Cecilia

27:09

running off with a doctor from Honduras

27:11

named Arturo? The

27:14

letter was postmarked from the Van Nuys

27:16

neighborhood, which is also located in the

27:18

San Fernando Valley not far from where

27:20

the new balls lived. So

27:22

if Alfredo or someone else from the area wrote

27:24

the letter, they wouldn't have had to travel far

27:26

in order to mail it. At

27:30

the time the Unsolved Mysteries segment

27:32

originally aired, Cecilia and Renee had

27:34

only been missing for 7 months,

27:36

so you could completely discount the

27:38

possibility that they took off voluntarily

27:40

even though they left all of their personal

27:42

belongings behind. However, it's

27:44

now been nearly 30 years and not

27:46

one shred of evidence has been uncovered

27:48

to indicate that either of them were

27:51

still alive past September of 1994. Not

27:55

to mention that Cecilia was only 2 weeks away

27:57

from her due date and in no condition to

27:59

travel, So it seems very unlikely

28:01

that she would just suddenly decide to take

28:03

off and start a new life at that

28:05

point while cutting off all contact with her

28:08

family. In addition, nothing

28:10

has ever been found to suggest that

28:12

Cecilia ever gave birth to her child.

28:15

At the very least, it seems

28:17

likely that the anonymous female caller

28:19

was somehow involved in the disappearances,

28:21

but who was she and what could her motive have

28:24

been? Of course, some

28:26

of the most prominent theories are that she was

28:28

a woman that Alfredo had been having an affair

28:30

with, or alternatively, someone who

28:32

was completely infatuated with Alfredo and

28:34

wanted his wife and stepson out

28:36

of the way. He

28:39

could also assume that perhaps Alfredo got

28:41

the woman to commit these murders on

28:43

his behalf, but even if he wasn't

28:45

directly involved, it's also possible that he

28:47

suspected who was responsible, but did not

28:50

want to admit that he had been

28:52

having an affair, which is why he

28:54

was not completely transparent with investigators. But

28:57

if Alfredo was personally responsible for what

28:59

happened to Cecilia and Renee, he

29:02

certainly did a successful job at covering

29:04

his tracks and not leaving any evidence

29:06

behind. On the surface,

29:08

Alfredo does appear to have a solid

29:10

alibi placing him at work during the

29:12

time period they went missing, but

29:14

the problem is that we really can't be 100% certain

29:17

that they were still alive before he arrived

29:19

at the retirement home. Alfredo

29:22

said that they were both at the apartment when he

29:24

left at 2.30 pm, but

29:26

can anyone else verify that? The

29:29

Los Angeles Times reported that a neighbor

29:32

saw Renee playing outside the apartment at

29:34

around 5 pm while Alfredo was at

29:36

work, and if accurate,

29:38

this would appear to clear him of any

29:40

direct involvement. But

29:42

since the sighting from the neighbor was never

29:44

mentioned during the Unsolved Mystery segment, it's

29:47

possible that they could have been mistaken, and

29:49

actually saw Renee at a completely different time

29:51

or on a different date. emotional

30:00

about the fact that Cecilia and Renee

30:02

were missing, it is admittedly

30:04

odd that he did not attempt to contact them

30:06

on his own, and they were

30:08

the ones who contacted him after receiving

30:10

a concerned call from one of Cecilia's

30:12

relatives. Theoretically, if

30:15

Alfredo was involved in the disappearances, he could

30:17

have been using that window of time to

30:20

cover up what happened. The

30:22

whole plan may have involved him arranging things

30:24

so that someone else would harm Cecilia and

30:26

Renee while he was at work in order

30:29

to ensure he had an alibi. I

30:32

do acknowledge that some of Alfredo's

30:34

statements during his Unsolved Mysteries interview

30:36

do sound a little over-dramatized, such

30:38

as how when he left the apartment that

30:41

day, he kissed Cecilia goodbye, but then

30:43

decided to go back and kiss her for the second

30:45

time before he headed out the door. He

30:48

then said that he felt compelled to keep

30:50

calling Cecilia multiple times during his shift at

30:52

the retirement home, because he just

30:55

had some sort of weird feeling that something

30:57

was wrong. So if you're

30:59

a cynic, you could assume that this whole thing

31:01

was a charade in which Alfredo was portraying himself

31:03

as the concerned spouse who leaves

31:05

work early and returns home to discover that

31:08

his wife and stepson are missing. Unfortunately,

31:11

there is virtually no information available

31:14

about Alfredo's life after the disappearances

31:16

to really gauge his potential involvement.

31:20

It was publicly revealed in 2011

31:22

that Alfredo had been having an

31:24

extramarital affair, but when did investigators

31:26

find this out? Who

31:29

was the woman Alfredo was involved with, and

31:31

did he remain with her after Cecilia and

31:33

Renee went missing? Do

31:36

investigators have any reason to believe the

31:38

woman might be involved, or could have

31:40

been the anonymous caller who phoned Cecilia

31:42

about the baby furniture? I mean,

31:44

if Alfredo and the woman were in on this

31:47

whole thing together, it's chilling to

31:49

imagine that two separate individuals would have such

31:51

a level of psychopathy that they'd

31:53

be willing to murder a pregnant woman and a six

31:55

year old child in order to be together. alleged

32:00

mistress committed these murders without his

32:02

knowledge or involvement, why wouldn't

32:04

he come clean about the affair? I

32:07

can understand being ashamed or embarrassed about

32:09

the whole situation, but I know that

32:11

if I was romantically involved with someone

32:13

capable of committing a crime this heinous,

32:15

then I'd be pretty terrified of this

32:17

person and willing to share everything I

32:19

knew in order to get her off

32:21

the streets. Regardless

32:23

of who was actually responsible, I think

32:26

we can all agree that the note

32:28

Cecilia supposedly mailed about her involvement with

32:30

Arturo the Doctor from Honduras was not

32:33

actually written by her and was fabricated

32:35

in order to throw off the investigation.

32:38

It's awfully convenient that the note was

32:40

typewritten so that no one could prove

32:42

or disprove that it was in Cecilia's

32:44

handwriting. The detail

32:47

about her being involved with Arturo for

32:49

nine months and him possibly being the

32:51

real biological father of her unborn child

32:54

sounds like something that was thrown in there as

32:56

a cover story to explain why she would take

32:58

off when she was so close to her due

33:00

date. And if you

33:02

think Alfredo wrote the note, then the line,

33:04

quote, I love you with all of my

33:07

heart, but you will not amount to anything, could

33:09

be construed as him projecting some of

33:11

his own insecurities. But I don't know,

33:14

there are just so many questions that

33:16

need answering before I can say with

33:18

any certainty whether or not Alfredo was

33:20

complicit in the disappearances. Since

33:23

we have an independent witness, Cammie Giacome,

33:26

who can confirm that Cecilia was receiving

33:28

strange phone calls from an anonymous woman,

33:31

I think that definitely points to a third

33:33

party being involved. But how much of a

33:35

role did Alfredo have? If

33:37

I knew more information about Alfredo's alleged

33:40

affair, his marriage with Cecilia, and even

33:42

his relationship with Renee, I

33:44

might have an easier time figuring out if he

33:46

would be capable of something like this. If

33:49

it turned out that Alfredo did not have

33:51

a good relationship with Renee, he may not

33:53

have wanted a child from his wife's previous

33:55

marriage impacting his life, but I

33:57

haven't heard anything to indicate that they didn't get

33:59

along. And if we knew

34:01

more about the woman, or possibly even multiple

34:03

women, whom Alfredo was supposedly having an affair

34:06

with at this time, I might

34:08

be able to figure out if they were the

34:10

sort of person who would have no qualms about

34:12

committing a double murder. As

34:14

it is, whoever costs Cecilia and

34:16

Renee's disappearances appears to have essentially

34:18

gotten away with the perfect crime

34:21

for nearly 30 years, and

34:23

sadly, their story all but seems to have

34:25

been forgotten about by the media. But

34:28

if you happen to have any information

34:30

about the disappearances of Cecilia Newball and

34:33

Renee Perez, please contact the Los Angeles

34:35

County Sheriff's Office at 323-890-5500. That's

34:41

323-890-5500. So

34:46

now let's move on to our next case. Our

34:49

second story begins in Las Cruces, New

34:52

Mexico in 1991, and our

34:54

next pair of victims are 35-year-old

34:56

Edith Ann Warner and her 11-year-old

34:58

son Nicholas Smith. Edith

35:01

and Nicholas previously lived in El Toro,

35:03

California, and Nicholas's father is Ron Smith,

35:05

who was married to Edith for eight

35:08

years before they divorced. Edith

35:10

then became acquainted with a man named

35:13

Henry Warner, and after the couple married

35:15

in 1986, Edith became

35:17

pregnant with Henry's child and gave birth

35:19

to a second son named Andrew, who

35:21

is now three years old. The

35:24

family moved from California to Los Alamos,

35:26

New Mexico, after Henry got

35:28

a job at the Los Alamos

35:31

National Laboratory, but they eventually relocated

35:33

to Las Cruces so that Edith

35:35

and Henry could attend New Mexico

35:38

State University, aka, an MSU. Edith

35:41

is an art student who specializes in

35:43

metal art and jewelry making, while Henry

35:45

is an engineering student, and they currently

35:48

live with their two children at a

35:50

residence on Stanley Drive in University Park,

35:52

which is the student housing section. On

35:56

Thursday, February 21st, Edith

35:58

attended one of her art classes at El Toro.

36:00

NMSU, and after placing a piece

36:02

of metal in some acid as part of an

36:04

art project, she left the class and

36:06

told her instructor that she would be back in

36:09

a few hours. However,

36:11

Edith never returned, and this would turn

36:13

out to be the last time she

36:15

was confirmed to be alive by any

36:17

independent eyewitnesses outside her household. Nicholas

36:21

attended school that same day, but after

36:23

he left, he was also not heard

36:25

from again and did not return his

36:27

schedule the following day. Over

36:29

the course of the next week, neither

36:31

Edith or Nicholas returned to their respective

36:34

classes, and no one heard from them.

36:37

Edith's father, Randall Deweese, and her

36:39

mother, who also happened to be

36:41

named Edith, both lived

36:43

in Laguna Niguel, California, and

36:45

had last seen Edith and Nicholas when they travelled

36:47

there to visit for Christmas. The

36:50

Deweese's continued to stay in touch with Edith

36:52

on the phone, but when they tried to

36:54

call her on two separate occasions in early

36:56

March, Henry answered the phone and told them

36:58

she was not home or out for a

37:01

walk. However, when Randall

37:03

tried to call Edith for the third time

37:05

on March the 6th, Henry once again answered

37:07

and revealed that he had not seen Edith

37:09

or Nicholas in a week and a half.

37:13

According to Henry, there were problems in their

37:15

marriage, as Edith had recently asked

37:17

him for a divorce. So

37:19

on Saturday, February the 23rd, Edith

37:22

informed him that she was going to take

37:24

Nicholas and temporarily stay with a friend while

37:26

she figured out what to do next. Henry

37:29

claimed that they both left the residence on

37:31

foot in order to walk to this friend's

37:33

place, and Edith left her station wagon, as

37:35

well as most of her clothing, behind. After

37:39

not seeing or hearing from Edith and

37:41

Nicholas for an entire week, Henry

37:43

said that he contacted the New Mexico

37:46

State University Police Department on March the

37:48

2nd, but since Edith was

37:50

an adult and Nicholas's legal guardian,

37:52

the police would not open a

37:54

missing persons investigation. Randall

37:57

was taken by complete surprise by this news

37:59

as it was out of character for Edith

38:01

to take off without informing her family, and

38:04

he also found it odd that she would

38:06

not take her youngest son Andrew along with

38:08

her and seemingly break off all contact with

38:10

him. When

38:13

Randall spoke to Nicholas's father, Ron Smith, he

38:15

learned that he had also not heard

38:17

from Edith or Nicholas, so the

38:19

two men decided to travel from California

38:21

to Las Cruces. Randall

38:24

claimed that when they arrived at the Warner

38:26

residence, Henry refused to speak to them as

38:28

he claimed that he was busy studying for

38:30

his final exams. Randall

38:33

and Ron soon contacted the

38:35

NMSUPD in order to report

38:37

Edith and Nicholas missing, but

38:39

they did not seem to take their disappearances

38:42

all that seriously and were inclined to believe

38:44

that they both took off voluntarily. On

38:47

March 9, Nicholas was scheduled to fly

38:49

to California in order to visit his

38:51

father during his spring break from school,

38:54

and a ticket had been purchased for him

38:56

on a flight which would leave from El

38:58

Paso International Airport located in

39:00

Texas just over 50 miles away from

39:02

Las Cruces. Randall

39:05

and Ron decided to travel to the airport

39:07

that day on the off chance that Nicholas

39:09

might show up there to board his flight,

39:12

but he never did and his ticket was

39:14

not used. Randall

39:16

would spend several weeks in Las Cruces,

39:18

as well as Edith's previous town of

39:20

residence, Los Alamos, handing out

39:22

missing persons flyers for his daughter and

39:24

grandson, and even hired a

39:26

private investigator. There

39:29

were a couple of sightings of the

39:31

two missing victims, including two employees from

39:33

a travel agency who claimed they recognized

39:36

Edith's photograph and recalled her inquiring about

39:38

an airline flight sometime in March, though

39:40

they cannot recall the specific flight. A

39:44

Greyhound bus driver also reported having

39:46

seen Edith and Nicholas on a

39:48

bus which traveled from Las Cruces

39:50

to Albuquerque sometime in mid-March, but

39:53

none of these sightings could be verified. However,

39:56

while Randall was canvassing the student

39:58

housing neighborhood, he would approached by

40:00

a woman who knew Edith personally

40:03

and claimed that about a week before Edith went

40:05

missing, she had seen her

40:07

packing numerous cardboard boxes inside her station

40:09

wagon. While the vehicle

40:11

was left behind, these boxes could

40:13

not be located and their contents

40:15

were unknown. Randall

40:17

went to the trouble of checking over a

40:19

dozen local storage facilities near the NMSU

40:22

campus to see if Edith might have

40:24

rented any units to store these boxes,

40:26

but he was unable to turn up

40:28

anything. Even

40:31

though there was no direct evidence of foul play,

40:33

Randall remained skeptical that Edith or Nicholas

40:36

were still alive as there was no

40:38

activity on either of their social security

40:40

numbers. And since

40:42

no school districts ever sent in

40:44

any requests for Nicholas's educational records

40:46

in Las Cruces, this seemed

40:48

to indicate that his mother never attempted

40:50

to enroll him at another school. Shortly

40:54

after Edith and Nicholas went missing, Henry

40:57

would take Andrew and move back to

40:59

Los Alamos and he divorced

41:01

Edith in absentia in July only five

41:03

months after she vanished. According

41:06

to Randall, his family was never

41:08

particularly close to Henry after Edith

41:10

married him and they had a

41:12

strained relationship. Whenever

41:14

Randall attempted to phone Henry after he

41:16

moved away, Henry would immediately hang up

41:19

on him. As

41:21

a result, the DeWes family would have

41:23

no further contact with Andrew. The

41:26

only interview Henry ever gave occurred in 1992

41:29

when he agreed to speak to a reporter

41:31

from the Los Alamos Monitor and said that

41:34

he did not ordinarily like to communicate with

41:36

the media in order to protect the privacy

41:38

of himself and his son. During

41:41

his interview, Henry expressed his belief that

41:43

Edith planned her own disappearance because she

41:45

did not get along with her parents.

41:48

He also claimed that before she left, Edith

41:50

took approximately $1,000 in cash and $10,000 in

41:52

gold and silver coins from

41:56

the accounts they shared together, though I'm

41:59

not sure if law enforcement was able to verify

42:01

if this was true. Whatever

42:03

the case, Henry and Andrew eventually moved

42:05

out of New Mexico, and their current

42:07

whereabouts are unknown. It

42:10

would not be until February of 2008 when

42:13

the NMSU Police Department, the

42:15

Donna Anna County Sheriff's Cold Case

42:17

Unit, the New Mexico State Police,

42:19

and the FBI held a joint

42:21

press conference in which they finally

42:23

announced that they now believed that

42:26

foul play was involved in Edith

42:28

and Nicholas's disappearances, though they did

42:30

not name any suspects or persons

42:32

of interest. The

42:34

authorities confirmed that while they had not recently

42:36

received any new information about the case, they

42:38

wanted to take a fresh look at it,

42:40

and hoped that this press conference might help

42:42

bring in some new tips. During

42:45

this time period, a search was

42:47

performed of Edith and Nicholas's former

42:49

residents in University Park. Ever

42:52

since they went missing, a number of different

42:54

people had lived in the home, but even

42:56

though the backyard was dug up, and the

42:58

interior was sprayed with luminol to check for

43:00

traces of blood, nothing of

43:02

evidentiary value was found. The

43:05

authorities would soon receive a tip that

43:07

the victims' remains could be found by

43:09

Tortugas Mountain, which is located near the

43:11

NMSU campus, but a search of the

43:14

area also failed to turn up anything.

43:17

Sadly, even though Randall DeWeese remained

43:19

a very passionate advocate for his

43:21

missing daughter and grandson, he passed

43:23

away in November of 2019 at

43:26

the age of 96 without receiving

43:28

any answers about what happened to them. So

43:31

after three decades, no trace of Edith

43:33

Warner and Nicholas Smith has ever been

43:36

found. So I guess

43:38

you could say the trail went cold. So

43:58

while you can see some obvious parallels

44:01

between the disappearances of Edith Warner and

44:03

Nicholas Smith and the disappearances of Cecilia

44:05

Newball and Renee Perez, the

44:07

key difference is the fact that while Cecilia was

44:09

pregnant at the time she went missing, Edith

44:12

had a three-year-old son named Andrew who got

44:14

left behind. And according

44:16

to those who knew her, Edith was a very

44:19

devoted mother who never would have abandoned one of

44:21

her sons. Of course, while Nicholas

44:23

was Edith's son from her previous marriage, Andrew

44:26

was the son of her current husband, Henry Warner.

44:29

Theoretically, if you believe that Henry is

44:31

the guilty party here, he may

44:33

have drawn the line at harming his own

44:35

flesh and blood, but had no qualms about

44:37

getting rid of his stepson. I'll

44:40

state right up front that I do not

44:42

believe this case has the same level of

44:44

ambiguity as the previous one, but at the

44:46

same time, I also have to

44:48

acknowledge that there is no hard evidence that a

44:50

crime was committed. However, while

44:53

there was some suspicion directed at

44:55

Alfredo Newball for not immediately contacting

44:57

the police to report Cecilia and

44:59

Renee missing, at least an

45:01

investigation was launched only one day later.

45:04

But in Henry Warner's case, he never made

45:06

any attempt to get in touch with the

45:08

police for at least a week after Edith

45:11

and Nicholas disappeared. Now,

45:13

to be fair, Henry did acknowledge that

45:15

there were problems with the marriage and

45:17

that Edith was planning to divorce him,

45:19

which is a sharp contrast to many

45:21

other cases of this type, where a

45:23

missing woman's husband will try to paint

45:25

their marriage as perfectly happy even when

45:27

everyone else in their lives says otherwise.

45:30

Henry claimed that Edith told him she was going

45:32

to take Nicholas and stay with a friend because

45:35

she needed some time to figure out what to

45:37

do next, and if Henry was

45:39

telling the truth, I can understand him not

45:41

going to the police for a week because

45:43

he wouldn't have any reason to be concerned.

45:46

But on the other hand, there are still

45:48

a number of issues with Henry's story, as

45:50

I do not believe he ever provided a

45:53

name for this so-called friend Edith was supposed

45:55

to be visiting. Did

45:57

Henry really let her leave without finding out

45:59

where this happened? friend lived or getting their

46:01

contact info? Not to

46:03

mention the fact that Edith left her station

46:06

wagon behind and supposedly traveled to this friend

46:08

of hers on foot. This

46:11

would imply that the friend lived very

46:13

close by, possibly in the same student

46:15

housing section on the NMSU campus, so

46:18

if this friend existed, it should have

46:20

been really easy for the authorities to

46:22

track them down and verify Henry's story.

46:26

I suppose an alternate explanation is that

46:28

Edith lied to Henry and her story

46:30

about visiting a friend was just a

46:32

ruse for her to take off and

46:34

escape an unhappy marriage, but once again,

46:36

it sounds like it would have

46:38

been out of character for her to abandon

46:40

Andrew. Much like

46:43

Renee Perez Sr., it doesn't

46:45

sound like Nicholas's birth father Ron Smith

46:47

was ever considered to be a suspect,

46:49

as it seems like they maintained a

46:51

close relationship. Ron

46:53

was also living in California at the time

46:55

and seemed to be very proactive at searching

46:58

for his son after he disappeared. But

47:01

of course, the major advocate here

47:03

was Edith's father, Randall D'Ouise, who

47:05

worked tirelessly at spreading awareness about

47:07

his daughter's disappearance until he reached

47:09

his 90s, and it's sad that

47:11

he passed away without receiving any answers. Randall

47:15

was always very critical of the

47:17

original investigation by the New Mexico

47:19

State University Police Department, and I

47:21

can definitely see why, as

47:23

I believe they put too much stock into

47:26

the idea that Edith and Nicholas could have

47:28

taken off voluntarily, and Randall seemed to be

47:30

the only one who was willing to publicly

47:32

acknowledge that they were likely no longer alive.

47:36

While I'm glad that the authorities

47:38

eventually did start performing a serious

47:40

investigation, it's pretty shocking that it was

47:42

not until 2008, 17 years after Edith and Nicholas went

47:44

missing, when they were willing

47:48

to publicly acknowledge that yes, they probably

47:50

were the victims of foul play. They

47:53

did finally perform a forensic search of their former

47:55

residents, but by that point, a number of other

47:58

people had lived there, so they were not allowed

48:00

to be there. so if there was any potential

48:02

evidence to be found, I'm sure it was seriously

48:04

compromised. If the two victims

48:06

were murdered by Henry inside that house back in

48:08

1991, then he would

48:10

have had ample time to cover his tracks. I

48:14

think the issue with the investigation is

48:16

that it initially fell under the jurisdiction

48:18

of a campus police department who are

48:20

not exactly known for having the resources

48:23

and expertise to handle potentially serious crimes

48:25

like this, which may have involved foul

48:27

play. So if Edith

48:29

and Nicholas had lived off campus and

48:32

they were reported missing to a regular

48:34

police department, perhaps the investigation would have

48:36

been handled much differently. I

48:38

already discussed how unusual it was for

48:41

Alfredo Newball to allow Renee Perez Sr.

48:43

to move in with them after Cecilia

48:45

and Renee Jr. went missing, so

48:48

even if he was guilty, at

48:50

least Alfredo was giving off the pretense

48:52

of being empathetic towards the victim's loved

48:54

ones. But the polar

48:56

opposite happened in this case as

48:58

Henry pretty much refused to speak

49:01

with or acknowledge Randall DeWeese or

49:03

Ron Smith after Edith and Nicholas

49:05

vanished as his first reaction when

49:07

they showed up at his home was to

49:09

inform them that he was too busy studying

49:11

for exams. It's

49:13

also incredibly suspicious that Randall had

49:16

to phone Henry at least three

49:18

times from California before Henry would

49:20

even admit that Edith and Nicholas

49:22

were missing. The

49:24

first two times, he just simply said stuff

49:26

like Edith had stepped out for a walk

49:28

or something, but if Henry was

49:31

completely innocent, why not just tell Randall right

49:33

away that she was staying at a friend's

49:35

place? It's almost like

49:37

he was caught off guard the first few times

49:40

Randall phoned him, which is why it took

49:42

him until the third call to craft a cover

49:44

story. And of course, Henry

49:46

did not seem phased at all over the

49:48

fact that his wife never came back as

49:51

he almost immediately moved away from

49:53

Las Cruces with Andrew, divorced Edith

49:55

in absentia, and completely cut off

49:57

his son from the maternal side of his family.

50:01

Like I said earlier, the big issue is that

50:03

there is no evidence of foul play in this

50:06

case, but if Henry is the guilty

50:08

party, I would be curious to know

50:10

if this was premeditated murder or

50:12

an unplanned crime of passion. The

50:15

last time any witnesses other than Henry

50:17

could confirm having seen Edith was

50:19

when she attended one of her art classes on February

50:21

the 21st, and since

50:23

she was in the midst of working on an

50:26

art project, she told her professor she would return

50:28

in a couple of hours, but of course never

50:30

did. According to Henry,

50:33

Edith made her decision to leave with

50:35

Nicholas on Saturday, February the 23rd, but

50:37

why would she have returned to class before that

50:40

in order to finish her project? Nicholas

50:42

was also last seen at his school on

50:44

the 21st, but he did not return on

50:46

the 22nd, which was a Friday, and I

50:49

haven't heard anything about his mother or

50:51

stepfather contacting the school to let them

50:53

know he wouldn't be there. So

50:56

I have to wonder if shortly after Edith

50:59

and Nicholas returned home on the 21st, Edith

51:01

wound up getting into a heated confrontation

51:03

with Henry, which led to her being

51:05

killed. And even if

51:08

Henry did not initially plan on harming Nicholas, he

51:10

may have felt he had to get rid of

51:12

him too because he was a witness. Of

51:15

course he did not harm his own

51:17

biological son Andrew, but even if

51:19

the boy was present when a crime took

51:21

place and he saw something, Andrew

51:23

would have only been three years old at the time,

51:25

so it's not like he would be a reliable witness.

51:28

The one part of this story I have

51:30

a hard time figuring out is the woman

51:32

who told Randall that she saw Edith loading

51:35

a bunch of boxes into her station wagon

51:37

about a week before she went missing, but

51:39

even though the vehicle was left behind, these

51:42

boxes never turned up. This

51:44

definitely supports the idea that Edith may

51:46

have been planning to divorce Henry and

51:48

move out, but of course if

51:51

she left her residence on foot in order to

51:53

walk to a friend's place, then why would she

51:55

be loading boxes of her personal items into her

51:57

car? If Henry committed murder,

52:00

I guess it's possible that he could have

52:02

disposed of these boxes in the same place

52:04

where he disposed of Edith and Nicholas's bodies

52:06

in order to further the narrative

52:08

that she took off on her own, but

52:11

it's odd that he would keep her station wagon. Since

52:14

this angle with the boxes is based

52:16

entirely on the account of one eyewitness,

52:19

it may not even have any significance, but

52:21

I can understand the need to bring it up because

52:24

there is so little evidence to work with. I

52:27

know that Henry once told a reporter that Edith

52:29

took around $1,000 in cash and $10,000

52:33

in gold and silver coins from their

52:35

joint accounts before she disappeared, but even

52:37

though I've seen this information reported by

52:39

other sources, it's unclear if police

52:41

were able to verify if this claim was

52:44

true. For all we

52:46

know, Henry may have just been spreading false

52:48

information in order to maintain the narrative that

52:50

Edith ran away. But

52:53

the fact of the matter is that even though

52:55

the reciting of Edith and Nicholas in the weeks

52:57

following their disappearances, none of them

52:59

were officially confirmed and were most likely

53:01

from eyewitnesses who were mistaken as

53:04

there has been no paper trail to indicate

53:06

that either of them have been alive these

53:08

past three decades. So

53:10

I definitely think it's safe to say that

53:12

they did not take off voluntarily and

53:14

unfortunately, they are probably no longer with us.

53:18

And since Las Cruces is surrounded by a

53:20

lot of vast open desert, there would have

53:22

been no shortage of locations to dispose of

53:24

the remains. I

53:27

don't know anything about Henry or Andrew's current

53:29

whereabouts, and I can't even be certain if

53:31

Henry is still alive today, but

53:34

I would be curious to know what kind

53:36

of relationship that Andrew has had with his

53:38

father these past three decades, or

53:40

if he has any thoughts about what happened to

53:42

his mother and half-brother. Maybe

53:44

one of these days Andrew will give

53:46

an interview and share information which could

53:48

shed further light on these disappearances. State

54:00

University Police Department at 575-646-3311. That's 575-646-3311. Now

54:11

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54:13

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