0:00

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0:02

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0:05

the app today.

0:13

I

0:20

already knew what his problem was. That

0:23

was why I didn't like it already at that

0:25

point. And to this day, I still think to

0:27

myself what I could have done better. And I blame

0:29

myself that I didn't do something different. But

0:31

I also do know dealing with a lot

0:33

of missing person cases and stuff like this, domestic

0:36

violence, especially the domestic

0:38

violence part of it, that if it didn't happen

0:40

that night,

0:41

it would have happened another night because she probably

0:43

would have went back. And that's the scary

0:45

part. I wish I could have done something different

0:47

that night to keep her from going at all. But

0:50

to myself on regular occasions,

0:53

what if I didn't take her home that night? Where

0:55

would we be right now? What if I didn't even take her out

0:57

that day? Where would we be? Would

1:00

we be able to save her? Would we have been able to get

1:02

her away from him legally? Would

1:04

we

1:05

have? Last week

1:07

we brought you the first part of Becky Marzau's

1:09

story. On December 12,

1:13

2003, Becky went out for a night with friends at a club

1:15

in Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Becky

1:18

was a 23-year-old woman living life and enjoying

1:20

her freedom. She was working and

1:22

finishing up her college degree. Her

1:25

entire life was ahead of her. But

1:27

there was a dark cloud cast over Becky's happy

1:29

life, her boyfriend Carl,

1:32

an older man who had a history of abusing

1:34

women. We left last week off

1:36

with Becky's escape to Florida. And

1:38

today we will bring you the final part of Becky's

1:41

story about her return to Wisconsin

1:43

and subsequent disappearance. I'm

1:45

Marisa and from Wondery, this is episode 399

1:48

of The Vanished, part two of Becky Marzau's story,

1:53

The Box.

1:57

The Vanished, part two of Becky Marzau's story, The Box.

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Before we begin today's episode, we

3:00

wanted to warn you that Becky's story contains

3:02

graphic discussion of intimate partner violence

3:04

and suicide. Please take care

3:07

while listening.

3:08

In part 1 of Becky's story, we

3:10

talked about how she left Wisconsin and

3:13

had gone to Florida for a short period of time.

3:16

From what everybody told us, they thought

3:18

it was about 6 weeks or so.

3:20

Becky returned to Wisconsin to finalize her

3:22

divorce from her ex-husband Mike, and

3:25

soon resumed life as normal for Becky

3:27

prior to her trip to Florida.

3:29

When we talked with Becky's cousin Jennifer,

3:31

she told us about this period of time in

3:34

Becky's life. So

3:36

I know that she went to Florida, and the story

3:38

that I had heard was that she

3:40

had met another man who had taken her to

3:42

Florida to get away from Carl. She

3:45

walked up to the ticket booth, bought a ticket, and left.

3:47

And she at some point came back to

3:49

Wisconsin to get back with Carl. Some

3:52

stories had surfaced around that

3:54

time that Becky went to Florida to

3:57

work in a gentleman's club. Which...

4:00

I don't buy it all. That's not her.

4:03

At no point in growing

4:05

up with her or even early teenage

4:07

years later, teenagers, did she ever even

4:09

mention that being a desire of hers

4:11

to get involved in that industry.

4:13

So that was the story that had

4:15

surfaced when she went down there and she was working at a strip

4:18

club down there, which makes zero sense to me.

4:20

Not her personality. No, she was a very shy,

4:23

naive girl. She wasn't gay. She

4:24

wasn't out there. She wasn't boisterous like that.

4:27

Now again, you know, in the few years that she was

4:29

on and off with Carl, things could have changed,

4:32

but I don't know that things would have changed that

4:33

drastically. But that's where people do

4:36

desperate things. So my understanding

4:38

was that she was

4:39

a bar fender at a gentleman's club.

4:41

During Becky's time

4:43

in Florida, she wasn't speaking to her parents

4:46

and her mother became concerned. In

4:48

a 2015 interview with media

4:51

Milwaukee, Becky's mother Karen

4:53

stated that Carl called her looking for

4:55

Becky. Karen tried to reach her by

4:57

phone, but Becky wouldn't answer her calls.

5:00

Carl then told Karen that Becky had gone

5:02

down to Florida and was working at a strip

5:04

club. He said that he was going to

5:06

bring her back to Wisconsin.

5:08

Karen didn't believe Carl and attempted

5:11

to report Becky missing to her local police

5:13

at that time, but they refused

5:15

to take a report citing that Becky

5:17

was an adult and could leave if she wanted

5:19

to. In that 2015

5:20

article, Karen also stated

5:23

that she was able to get the FBI involved

5:26

and an agent was a person who found Becky in

5:28

Florida, but she said that she didn't want

5:30

contact with her parents. Despite

5:32

this estrangement from her parents, Becky's

5:35

close friend Christina explained that

5:37

while Becky was in Florida, she kept in

5:39

contact with her so that she wouldn't

5:41

worry or feel that her friend was in danger.

5:44

While

5:45

she was in Florida, she would call and talk

5:47

to me. She'd call and talk to my mom. She'd

5:49

call and talk to my sister. We would hear

5:51

from her. It wasn't

5:52

like we heard from her every single day, but

5:54

we would hear from her once or twice a month.

5:57

She would definitely call and let us know everything

5:59

was good.

5:59

tried to see how we were doing.

6:01

She even proceeded to call me one day

6:03

just to tell me that she bought two pickles for

6:05

two puppies. And that was Becky.

6:07

She was so loving. She would take care of anybody

6:10

and everything from the crawling

6:12

ant that you almost stepped on to,

6:15

oh God, the scariest looking people in the world to tell

6:17

you the truth. She was just that

6:19

helpful and happy and go

6:22

lucky. I

6:23

just didn't understand why she went down there.

6:25

And she went by herself didn't make sense.

6:27

Stay down there for a little while until

6:29

she had to come up here for

6:32

her divorce from Mike. Most

6:34

of us were like, why Florida?

6:36

Why you didn't go to Indiana

6:38

or Chicago, which is closer, but

6:40

yet we could still, you know, we just didn't

6:42

understand Florida. So when she came back

6:44

for her divorce proceedings, she decided to

6:46

stay and ended up back with Carl.

6:49

I do not know how that went through

6:51

or how like if she called him or

6:53

if she went to his house, I

6:55

don't remember how that

6:58

process happened. I think that was the moment

7:00

when I was like going through my divorce because I

7:03

was still in contact with her, but not as much

7:05

as I would have liked to been. Because during

7:07

my divorce, at one point in time, I became homeless.

7:09

I had nowhere to stay. I was actually going to

7:11

be sleeping in my car. So I

7:13

was kind of bouncing around. And then

7:16

I ended up with my friends. That's when

7:18

me and her started talking more again

7:19

and seeing each other more again.

7:21

And that's when yes, I was finding

7:23

out she was back with Carl. I already

7:25

knew she was back with them. But how deep

7:27

she was in I didn't know what was going on.

7:30

Once she got back with him was when I

7:32

was around at the house. And he

7:34

walked in the house and his underwear asked

7:36

him where his dinner was screaming at

7:39

her. He gave her this decrepit

7:41

little red pickup,

7:44

two door falling apart,

7:46

no heat. It was winter. He'd

7:48

give her $10 out of her check and

7:50

say this is for gas. He would take her

7:52

check. It wouldn't give her any money. So

7:54

there were times she I can't go anywhere because

7:57

I don't have any money and I don't

7:59

have any gas.

9:59

it. We went in arm in arm

10:02

with Taz and walked in there and

10:04

we were drinking and having a good time

10:07

laughing and joking and Taz and

10:10

Becky were dancing. I'm not a dancer

10:12

still to this day. I

10:13

don't have much rhythm.

10:15

We were dancing half a good time. Becky eventually

10:18

got me out there to dance. I've been

10:20

drinking liquid courage will do that. All

10:22

of a sudden her phone rang

10:24

and it's Carl and she decides

10:27

not to answer it

10:28

and then it rings again and

10:29

she decides not to and it rings again and this

10:32

continues a couple times finally. I think

10:34

she answered it.

10:35

I was not liking it.

10:38

Sometimes I do blame myself because I feel bad

10:40

about it but at the same time I know that

10:43

that was on him and it was bound. It was

10:45

something that he as a crazy person

10:48

or whatever psycho jealous abuser

10:51

was and I've seen

10:53

domestic violence in my

10:55

past. I do know about it when

10:57

he kept calling. I told her I said, honey, do you

10:59

want to go home?

11:00

I can take you home so that there's

11:02

no problem. And she was like, no, I

11:04

want to stay out. He knew we were coming out and he was okay

11:06

with it. It shouldn't be a problem and I'm like, well,

11:08

I know, but you know how he is

11:11

and

11:11

she was like, no. And I said, well, okay, well then

11:14

instead of ignoring his calls, turn

11:16

it off because he was going to keep calling.

11:18

You know, I'm like,

11:19

you could turn it off or I can take you home.

11:21

I

11:22

mean, I don't want to take you home. Someone have a

11:24

good time with you, but

11:25

I don't want anything to start anything to

11:27

go any further. So if that's going to keep

11:29

the problem from happening, let me take you

11:31

home. And she didn't want to, she

11:33

wanted to be able to enjoy herself. Christina

11:37

would never see her friend again, but of

11:39

course she had no way of knowing that at the time.

11:42

Christina told us that at the end of that evening,

11:45

she drove Becky home and they made plans

11:47

to hang out again. The

11:49

night that I took her out,

11:51

when we parted ways, where she was

11:53

living with Carl, the house faced

11:56

this dead end road. And so

11:58

I pulled in in front of her.

11:59

house and that dead end and I said okay

12:02

Becky I will talk to you tomorrow and

12:04

she was like no you're gonna come over we're

12:06

gonna listen to music and I'm gonna teach you how to

12:08

dance.

12:09

Okay fine I don't have any problems

12:11

nothing to do tomorrow. So

12:14

I watched her go in the house I said now you make

12:16

sure you wave at me from the window so I know you

12:18

made it upstairs because it was a duplex and she lived

12:20

in the upstairs duplex and

12:22

his grandmother I think his grandmother was the one who lived downstairs

12:25

at that time she was still alive

12:27

and I told her wave at me when you get upstairs

12:29

in the window so that I know you made it safe you

12:32

know anything can happen fall down the stairs

12:34

somebody could be in the hallway you don't know that's

12:36

my easiest way for me to look out for a friend I'm making

12:39

sure you get in the house after we go anywhere

12:41

and it's late she waved at me

12:43

so our plans for the next day where I

12:46

was gonna go over there and meet up with her she was

12:48

gonna make me a dancer I called her

12:51

that morning when I got up and gotten ready and

12:53

I got no answer needless to say

12:55

I didn't hear from her for about

12:57

an hour I called her again and

13:00

I called her again and

13:02

then called her again and I kept calling

13:05

her throughout the day and I

13:07

was not getting a text back

13:10

a call back I didn't get any

13:12

kind of response so I called my sister and I'm like dude

13:14

have you heard from Becky I am not hearing

13:16

from Becky she and I were still paying out

13:18

today and she has not responded

13:20

to my calls Carl

13:23

was calling her all night last night when

13:25

we were hanging out I don't know what's going

13:27

on have you heard from her she's like

13:29

no I haven't okay

13:32

we got to figure out I said does anybody

13:34

else heard from her so I guess she got in contact

13:36

with Desiree Desiree had said she

13:38

hadn't heard from her either they

13:41

called me later on and said that they

13:43

were going to go over to her house did

13:45

I want to go with oh I couldn't I

13:48

had my son I didn't want to leave at

13:50

night with my son so I was like I can't go

13:53

they went over there they had gotten

13:55

no response from their calls to her either

13:58

they went over there and they

14:00

got no response. So for

14:03

days we were calling her and calling her and

14:05

calling her and calling her and finally

14:07

one day my sister and Desiree went back over

14:10

there. The truck was there that Becky

14:12

used to use but nobody was answering

14:14

the door. My sister and Desiree decided

14:16

to go to the police station and say

14:18

can we file for a missing

14:21

person. They told them

14:23

that because we weren't family,

14:26

we couldn't report them missing.

14:27

That's what killed me right there that right

14:30

there if they would have went over there that day

14:32

I truly believe we would

14:34

know where Becky is we would know something.

14:37

My sister

14:38

is more of a spitfire than I am

14:39

not gonna lie. And she

14:42

says, well, can somebody

14:44

go check on her, go over there check

14:46

we're worried about her we haven't heard from her

14:48

in a couple of days her voicemail

14:50

is now full. It hasn't been

14:52

cleared. Can somebody check on her

14:55

and he was like, No, they refused.

14:57

I don't know exactly why I can't tell you exactly what

14:59

was going on.

15:00

That's what my sister had told me. And

15:02

I'm

15:02

like, well, they wouldn't even go do a welfare check

15:04

or nothing. She was like, No, they wouldn't go over there.

15:06

And I said, Well, what happened? She was like, Well, I told them

15:08

I said, Well, if I break into the place, will you then

15:11

go? And he says, Well, yeah, if

15:13

you do, we will show up

15:14

and then we're gonna arrest you. She says, Well,

15:16

that's what's gonna take and I guess that's just what the hell

15:19

I'm gonna have to do.

15:20

And that's what she was thinking about doing.

15:22

And again, I feel bad for saying

15:24

no, Lisa, get yourself arrested. You got

15:26

kids, you got you know, you got to worry about too.

15:28

But

15:29

I said, but we shouldn't do something. We were trying

15:31

Becky's mom at this point between all

15:33

of this going on had moved from where they were.

15:36

And I didn't know one the

15:38

address, I didn't know where the house was, because

15:40

Becky and her mom had had a falling

15:43

out over Carl. And so

15:45

Becky was going through the family

15:47

thing was going through the whole tough love thing, because

15:50

they had tried so many times to get Becky away

15:52

from Carl that at this point, they

15:55

were like, well, okay, if that's that's what you

15:57

want to do, we're going to be here for you later.

15:59

But we can. keep failing you out

16:01

and you keep going back. It was one of those

16:03

moves where we've been trying, we've been trying,

16:06

we've been trying and you keep going back.

16:08

So on the later that he had threatened the family,

16:10

he had threatened her sisters and her brothers

16:13

and her family that if she had

16:15

left, he would kill them. Becky would

16:17

put herself forward before she would put

16:19

that on her family. And I believe that's why

16:21

she stayed with him was

16:24

because he threatened her family. This is

16:26

my take on it is that she left to

16:28

go to Florida to get away from him.

16:30

This was the second time around. He

16:32

knew she would leave again that she did it once before

16:34

why wouldn't she do it again. So

16:36

his way of keeping her there was

16:39

to at this point now threaten your family

16:41

that kept her there. So very special

16:43

kind of evil. So at this

16:46

point, me and my sister and Desiree

16:49

are all calling her. I didn't

16:51

have her mom's number to get in contact

16:53

with her

16:53

that first week couldn't find her.

16:55

And yes, I do know that technology

16:58

was out there at the time. And I do know

17:00

there were more steps that we could have done

17:03

trying to find her mom. Well, we also

17:05

knew her and her mom were on the out. So we

17:07

didn't know what to do being

17:09

young and trying to figure this all out.

17:12

We kept calling it kept calling.

17:24

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17:26

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17:28

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17:31

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17:33

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The exact timeline is difficult to

20:58

piece together in Becky's case because

21:00

of a variety of factors, including

21:03

the passage of time, errors in witness

21:05

statements, and lost memories.

21:07

You'll often see that Becky's missing date is

21:09

reported differently depending on where you look.

21:12

We believe December 12th is likely the most

21:14

accurate date, but we can't be certain.

21:17

We know that Becky's disappearance wasn't noticed

21:20

right away by her family, because by

21:22

the time that she vanished, she was no

21:24

longer speaking with her parents after

21:26

they had an argument over her relationship with

21:28

Carl. But her cousin Lisa spoke

21:30

with Becky daily, and after several weeks

21:32

went by and Becky wasn't answering her phone

21:35

or returning calls, Lisa knew

21:37

something was wrong. And at the same time,

21:39

Christina was trying to track down Becky's mother

21:41

to file a police report. Here's Lisa.

21:45

The last time I had seen her, she came

21:47

over to my place. We went through my wedding pictures. It

21:50

was early December. The second

21:52

rings in my head. I was trying to remember the exact date,

21:54

but I couldn't. We had talked on the phone

21:56

and I was telling her, you know, I got my pictures back

21:58

and everything and

21:59

I was looking for her. to come see the kids. She

22:02

was working at Target at the

22:04

time, which was in Brookfield. And I lived in

22:06

a city called Waukesha, so they were pretty close. This

22:08

is before, you know, we had cell

22:10

phones, but we didn't have like maps on our cell phone. And

22:13

where I lived was a little confusing to get to. Instead

22:15

of trying to explain it to her, I

22:18

was just like, I'll meet you at this mall. That was kind

22:20

of close in between, basically, where

22:22

I lived and where she worked. So I was like, I'll meet you

22:24

at this mall, and then you can follow me. So I

22:26

met her at the mall, and she actually just got in my car

22:28

and we drove together. That

22:30

was a little weird to me. It wasn't a huge deal. Like I didn't

22:33

think anything of it, but she got in my

22:35

car and we went to my house, and then I drove her back

22:37

to that parking lot, and we sat and talked for a

22:39

little bit in the parking lot, and then she left. It

22:41

was probably like 10 o'clock tonight. And then I called

22:44

her a couple days later. I mean, she seemed

22:46

herself, but she didn't. She kept saying that she

22:48

wanted to move back to Florida when all this started

22:50

happening. I thought maybe she moved back to Florida, but

22:53

there wasn't anything that stood out to me that was super

22:55

weird, except for like after that. She

22:57

was the type of person with her, especially her cell phone

22:59

voicemail, even before when we had pagers, and

23:01

you could like leave a message, she would change

23:03

her message, whether it be a song or

23:06

just whatever she was saying, like to leave your

23:08

name and number, she would change that like frequently.

23:10

I was calling her and calling her, and I'm like, she's not

23:13

answering. And I did know at that time, because

23:15

she had kinda told me she wasn't talking to her parents. Obviously

23:18

everybody has issues with stuff their parents did, but

23:20

I kept calling and I kept calling, and her voicemail kept

23:22

picking up. And I left messages, multiple

23:25

messages, and it never told me that her inbox

23:28

was full. So I'm like, okay, she's getting the messages

23:30

obviously, but she's not changing her voicemail.

23:33

And then eventually, I think it was in like January,

23:35

I just called my aunt, I was like, I don't wanna worry you, but

23:37

I just had a weird feeling. She's never

23:40

done that before where she didn't call me back. She

23:42

wasn't changing her voicemail, it was

23:43

just very weird. I even went to a

23:46

job to see if she's working. They said she hadn't been

23:48

there for like three weeks. They didn't say anything

23:50

other than she just hasn't been in for three weeks. So

23:52

it's not like I talked to a manager, I just talked to like one

23:54

of her coworkers. I just kinda went in there and was like, hey,

23:57

do you know Becky? And they're like, yeah, I

23:59

don't even remember who it was.

23:59

I talked to, but she was like, Oh yeah, I haven't seen her in like three

24:02

weeks. That's all she said. You never know. It's like

24:04

working at a target. She could have found

24:06

a different career. Like she had, she had

24:08

a pretty decent background. She

24:10

could have done accounting. She could have worked at a bank.

24:12

There's a lot of other things she could have done. So she could have found another

24:14

job. So I didn't want to like just assume,

24:16

but I did call my aunt. I didn't know who else to call.

24:19

So I was just like, what the heck? Where is

24:21

she? So I just called her and I told her I was a little worried.

24:23

And then that's when everything kind of went crazy.

24:26

I thought Carl did something

24:27

to her immediately just because of

24:29

the strange circumstances and

24:31

the way that she was with him. I didn't know

24:34

at that point. I had heard like, I've never

24:36

heard firsthand from Becky, but I've heard that

24:38

she had been abused by him. And this was all after

24:41

she kind of went missing, but right away, I just, I

24:43

just had a gross feeling that he did something

24:45

to her and I don't know why. That day that she came

24:47

over how she said she wanted to go back to Florida. I

24:49

knew that that meant she wanted to be away from him because

24:52

you're moving to an entirely different state and

24:54

you're not talking about moving with your partner. To

24:57

be honest, the guys that she was with before

24:59

she kind of had them wrapped around her finger. So

25:01

this was a little different. Normally she dated

25:04

guys that were like pretty passive. They were all very

25:06

nice guys. They didn't scream at her,

25:08

argue with her or anything. And I didn't feel like that

25:10

was the same type of relationship she had with him. Again,

25:13

nothing was firsthand, unfortunately, because I didn't get

25:15

the opportunity to meet him, but just the way that

25:17

she talked about it. I told my aunt and

25:19

then my aunt just started this, which understandable.

25:22

If my kid was missing, I would choose. She just like

25:25

kind of went both to the wall. She was getting

25:27

in contact with police departments and it feels

25:29

like they were doing nothing to be honest. They

25:31

knew where she was last. She had two friends

25:34

that had dropped her up and who had, I believe

25:36

had witnessed maybe not her being physically abused,

25:39

but her having signs of abuse

25:41

and told them and things like that. And

25:44

it was just like they did nothing. I feel like they

25:46

just kind of sat on it for a long time. And

25:48

then my aunt started going on TV

25:50

shows and putting website

25:53

stuff out and kind of going

25:55

on this vigilante. I

25:57

don't want to say assault against him, but she just kind of like, she.

26:00

started hanging posters up in his neighborhood and

26:02

having people call him and just trying to

26:04

get something out of him.

26:06

Becky's mom never got the answer she wanted

26:09

from Carl, but everyone agrees that

26:11

at best he was a bad person and

26:13

at worst a murderer. Here's Christina

26:15

again.

26:17

He didn't have a problem with me at first, but then

26:19

all of a sudden he didn't like me. That night

26:21

I told her, do what you want to do but I'm willing

26:23

to take you home if you want to and she turned her phone

26:26

off.

26:26

So my thinking is, oh well now

26:29

he doesn't like me. So

26:30

now he took her phone from her. It

26:33

was either that or he killed her. That was

26:35

like

26:35

first thought was he hurt her. He did

26:37

something to her because he was such an asshole.

26:40

I already knew

26:42

that he was abusive and Becky had been

26:44

going through stuff with him by this time already.

26:46

I

26:46

had seen how mean

26:49

he can get

26:50

by this time. The way Carl

26:52

acted between the divorce

26:54

and everything that I was going through and

26:57

the time that I actually went with Becky

27:00

to conversation. There was a lot that happened

27:02

in between all that. He was abusive

27:04

and he was mean and he was keeping her

27:07

from everybody. When I was over there one

27:09

night as an example, me and Becky

27:11

were outside smoking a cigarette and

27:13

she had seen somebody walking

27:16

through their yard from one side

27:18

of the yard to the other not from the back to the

27:20

front. This was in the backyard

27:22

and it was late. It was real dark.

27:24

You could just see the figure. Becky didn't know what's going

27:26

on. So she ran upstairs to tell Carl that, you

27:28

know, she pulled me in the garage.

27:30

She's like, I'm going to get Carl. You sit here in the garage

27:32

and don't you move? Because that's

27:33

Becky. I want to try to keep everybody safe. She

27:36

went and got Carl. He comes running down

27:38

the stairs with two guns in his hand. Carl

27:40

was like, look motherfucker, I don't know who the hell you are

27:42

and what you're doing in my yard, but I got two guns

27:44

and if you don't get the fuck out, I will take

27:47

care of it. He was pretty much threatening the guy because

27:49

he was walking through his yard and he had two weapons,

27:51

one in each hand. I'm standing in the garage

27:53

like, okay, now I already knew he

27:55

was an asshole, but I know he had weapons too.

27:58

That shit's not cool, but that was, was my friend

28:00

Becky, I was gonna continue to go over there

28:02

and see her because I wanted to make sure she

28:04

was okay. And because that's my friend,

28:06

I'm gonna continue to see my friend no matter

28:09

the guy I'm dating me likes her or not, or the

28:11

guy she's dating likes me or not. That's

28:13

my friend on bottom line. There was

28:16

another day

28:16

where I was over there and Carl

28:19

had just gotten home stripped down

28:21

to his underwear, even though I was there and asked

28:23

Becky why the hell his

28:25

dinner was not made or being

28:28

made at that moment.

28:30

The more we learned about Carl, the more

28:32

convinced we became that this was not the case

28:35

of someone who took off to get away from her family

28:37

or likely took off at all.

28:39

Becky's cousin Jennifer pointed out several

28:42

characteristics about Carl that bothered

28:44

her from the beginning, including

28:46

the fact that Becky was barely 20 and Carl

28:48

was 10 years older than she was.

28:51

So when I first found out she was missing,

28:53

that's when the talk

28:56

of an abusive relationship came out.

28:58

So my initial thought was she

29:00

just ran away. She left.

29:03

I never in a million years thought

29:05

she was dead. But then a

29:07

year later when my aunt was finally able to file

29:09

the missing persons report, then it kind of all

29:11

sunk in. And

29:12

we had learned a little bit more about who Carl was

29:15

and his past and his criminal

29:17

background. And then it became

29:19

more like, well, the

29:21

Florida stories kept circulating

29:24

about her going to Florida to be a stripper

29:26

and her going down there to be a bartender and her going down

29:28

there to get away from him.

29:30

And her being sex trafficked,

29:32

he was very narcissistic

29:34

and controlling and

29:35

never thought 20 years ago, we'd ever have to be

29:38

having these conversations with anybody.

29:41

Becky's sister Katie explained what she remembers

29:43

of Becky's relationship with Carl.

29:46

My sister lived with him. He was

29:49

abusive to my sister. The last

29:52

thing that I kind of remember was him

29:56

beating the shit out of my sister and

29:58

my sister calling my mom. and my

30:00

mom went and picked her up

30:02

and she came home and she had a black eye, she had

30:05

a big chunk of hair missing, she

30:07

was really beat up

30:09

and my mom was like, we need to go to the police,

30:12

you need to do something and my sister was scared.

30:14

She was like, I don't want to and I remember

30:17

my mom taking her down to the police department

30:20

and filing a police report about

30:22

what happened. So I remember my sister

30:24

staying with us for a couple of weeks, then

30:27

one night when my parents went to bed, my sister said

30:29

to me, Carl's been calling me

30:31

and he's really sorry and he wants me

30:33

to come home. At this time I was like 16

30:36

and I just remember telling my sister like, I really

30:39

don't want you to go. I was really upset about

30:41

it. I remember we were sitting out in her car

30:43

because she smoked cigarettes at the time and

30:46

she was smoking and she was just like,

30:48

I just really want to go home, I just really miss

30:50

him, he says he's really sorry and then

30:53

that night I helped my sister pack up some of her

30:55

stuff, she had only taken like a

30:57

bag of stuff and then she left when my

30:59

parents were sleeping because she knew that my parents would be

31:01

upset that she went back. That

31:04

was the last time that I ever

31:06

seen or talked to my

31:08

sister.

31:09

Like many of Becky's family members, Katie

31:12

too had never actually met Carl before

31:14

her sister disappeared. He was an elusive

31:17

mysterious figure in Becky's life but

31:19

late one night, years after Becky had vanished,

31:22

Katie and her friend had a frightening run-in

31:24

with Carl.

31:26

I actually didn't meet him

31:29

until my sister was missing

31:31

and I met him. My parents

31:34

actually had gone out of town and

31:38

a friend and I had gone out to the bar. I was

31:40

watching my parents' house for them and

31:42

my parents had asked me to let the dogs out

31:45

so I actually had

31:47

gone to let the dogs out. It was bar

31:49

closed, it was like one or two o'clock in the morning and

31:51

I was with a friend who was driving. My

31:54

parents have a very long driveway so I pulled

31:56

up in my parents' driveway. I got out

31:59

of the car

32:00

and I went in the house and

32:03

I remember seeing a pickup

32:06

truck coming up my parents driveway

32:08

and

32:09

my friend was sitting in in her car

32:11

and

32:12

he stopped like 50 feet

32:15

behind my friend's car.

32:17

Obviously in the middle of the night I'm freaking out I'm like

32:19

I don't know who would be here so

32:22

I grabbed one of my dad's guns. My dad had

32:24

several guns in his house and I went out

32:26

my parents garage door it

32:28

was Carl in a black pickup

32:30

truck sitting behind

32:32

my friend's car and he seen

32:35

that I had a gun and

32:37

he literally reversed down my parents super

32:39

long driveway did a burnout

32:42

at the end of the driveway and took off.

32:45

Katie's account of that encounter with Carl

32:47

late at night was terrifying. Had

32:49

he been following her? What was he planning

32:52

on doing? And

32:53

what would have happened that night if Katie

32:55

hadn't jumped into action so quickly and

32:57

run outside with one of her father's guns?

33:00

The frightening stories about Carl don't end

33:02

with Becky and her family. There

33:04

were also other women who came forward

33:06

and reported being abused by Carl to

33:08

Becky's family and the police. Christina

33:11

told us about Carl's other relationships.

33:15

The wife I think went down the stairs

33:17

and she went down the stairs and was injured. From

33:20

what I understand he was abusive to her as well and

33:22

I think that's why they had gotten a divorce.

33:25

Then the girl after

33:27

Becky I remember her saying

33:29

he was in the garage carrying

33:31

a part of gun. She was so bold.

33:34

She just dead point asked what are you doing

33:36

to that and he was like taking it apart. She

33:39

was like but why is it don't worry about it.

33:41

Then she said well is that the gun that you use

33:43

to hurt Becky with or whatever you did to Becky

33:45

is that what you used? Then he was like

33:47

don't you ever fucking talk about that again.

33:50

At

33:52

the time of Becky's disappearance

33:54

there was some sort of criminal charge against

33:57

Carl involving domestic violence

33:59

in which Becky was

33:59

the victim. We found conflicting

34:02

reports about this. Some say

34:04

that Becky failed to appear in court to testify

34:06

and then vanished days later. Others

34:09

say that Becky signed a sworn affidavit,

34:11

stating that she had made false statements to

34:13

the police and that Carl had not harmed

34:16

her in any way. We were not able

34:18

to verify which of these events took place

34:20

and when. To add to the confusion,

34:23

there were other women who filed police reports

34:25

indicating that Carl had abused them too.

34:27

Becky's sister Katie told us what she knows about

34:30

this. So

34:31

he has victimized several

34:34

women. He did things to

34:36

the mother of his child. He

34:39

abused her. I think there's like two or three

34:42

police reports of domestic

34:44

abuse between his wife.

34:47

He has been charged with domestic abuse

34:49

several times before and after

34:51

my sister. The woman that he

34:53

has a child with, he threw her

34:56

down a flight of stairs. He almost killed her.

34:58

The woman after

35:00

my sister, her name is June,

35:02

she and I actually have a relationship,

35:05

a friendship, a sisterhood. I don't know

35:07

what else to call it. Carl held

35:10

her captive in his home for four days,

35:12

nearly beat her to death. She literally

35:15

escaped from his house but naked,

35:18

had been tortured for four days. Again,

35:20

this was 17 years ago, 18 years

35:22

ago. But there are police reports

35:25

connected to June and Carl. She

35:27

doesn't live in Wisconsin. After

35:29

the whole incident with him, she

35:32

fled the state. My mom

35:34

has pretty much adopted her. So she's

35:36

like an extra sister now. So

35:38

she and I still stay in contact on Facebook

35:40

and we talk pretty regularly. So yeah,

35:43

she can give you definitely some insight into

35:45

Carl

35:46

and how

35:47

abusive he was. And he

35:49

had made comments to her that

35:52

he was going to kill her just like he killed my

35:54

sister.

35:55

June had suffered abuse at the hands of Carl

35:58

and it sounds a lot like what reported

36:00

in the months before she vanished.

36:02

Unfortunately, we weren't able to speak with June

36:05

ourselves because she was in the midst

36:07

of some medical treatments at the time we were

36:09

researching this series.

36:11

However, we were able to obtain

36:13

police records that included interviews

36:16

with June. In the records we

36:18

obtained, June said that Carl

36:20

started physically abusing her after she

36:22

talked to the police about another investigation.

36:25

He had beaten her on five to six

36:27

occasions. He would beat her with

36:29

his fists, leaving bruises, and

36:31

on one occasion he strangled her. She

36:34

described Carl as very controlling

36:36

and demeaning.

36:37

June went to police at the end of August

36:40

of 2007 after she had broken up

36:42

with Carl, and she said that he had violently

36:44

raped her on two occasions. Carl

36:47

was charged with two counts of rape.

36:50

During June's interview with the police, she

36:52

told them about a time early on in their

36:54

relationship when Carl gave her a gun,

36:57

and that gun had been cut into small pieces.

37:00

He told June to get rid of it at her workplace,

37:02

which she did. Could that have been used

37:04

to kill Becky?

37:06

There's no way to know now, since that was

37:08

years after the fact that she told the police

37:10

about it. Carl was set to stand

37:12

trial for the rape charges in 2008, but

37:15

he would never see his day in court because

37:18

he ended his life in October of 2007.

37:21

Carl died of carbon monoxide poisoning

37:24

in his garage, seated inside his

37:26

Pontiac Firebird. Even though

37:28

we weren't able to make contact with June,

37:31

her experiences that are documented in

37:33

police reports certainly make the case against

37:35

Carl much stronger, especially

37:37

because she's still here to talk about them.

37:40

You may read in some articles about

37:42

Becky's disappearance that some of Carl's

37:45

family members say he could have never been capable

37:47

of violence,

37:48

and they accused Becky's mom of coercing

37:50

June into making claims about Carl.

37:53

However, before June

37:55

and before Becky, Carl had been married.

37:58

That marriage ended in 2001.

37:59

after his wife had endured years

38:02

of abuse. His ex-wife said that

38:04

he had thrown her down the steps, choked

38:06

her, and she believed he was going to kill

38:08

her.

38:09

Not all of Carl's family members believe

38:11

he was innocent. His stepmother, who

38:13

had been in his life since he was a toddler, believed

38:16

that he had killed Becky. The home that

38:18

Becky and Carl lived in at the time she disappeared

38:20

was owned by his stepmother.

38:22

Her mother lived below Carl and Becky,

38:25

and she said that her mother had heard Carl

38:27

beating Becky from her apartment many times.

38:30

Carl's stepmother was so convinced of his

38:32

involvement in Becky's disappearance that

38:35

she decided to evict him after Becky

38:37

vanished, and she stepped up to help Becky's

38:39

family in any way that she could.

38:42

Unfortunately, if Carl did murder

38:44

Becky, he's dead at his own hand

38:46

and took whatever knowledge he had to the grave.

38:49

And that's just the beginning of Carl's suicide.

38:52

Here's Katie.

38:54

He committed suicide on my birthday.

38:56

He was 39 when he died, and

38:59

he died in 2007. Very

39:01

interesting. He killed himself in

39:03

his race car. He turned the car

39:05

on, put it in his garage and killed himself,

39:08

and he actually recorded his death.

39:10

It took several hours for him to die,

39:13

and there is a recording of it,

39:15

and my mom has it. How my mom

39:17

got a copy of it, I don't ask questions,

39:20

but my mom has a copy of it, and I have

39:22

heard parts of it. And

39:24

during the recording, he does claim

39:27

that he was not involved with my

39:29

sister's disappearance. So he goes on

39:31

a rant about my sister,

39:34

and he repeatedly claims

39:37

throughout the recording while he's dying

39:39

that he wasn't involved in my sister's

39:42

disappearance.

39:43

So from what Sergeant

39:45

Crawley says, it sounds like

39:48

it's transcribed, and it is

39:50

in my sister's file. My mom

39:52

has the actual tape of it. It's

39:55

like several hours long. I

39:57

did listen to it, but I listened to...

40:00

and pieces that my mom wanted to share with me.

40:02

I don't know how many people

40:04

have heard this recording either.

40:07

Jennifer told us that she's aware of the tape's

40:09

existence but hasn't listened to it

40:11

and her reason resonated with us.

40:14

I had heard rumblings that

40:17

Carl had committed suicide and I heard that

40:20

a note and a cassette tape were found.

40:22

I've never seen the transcripts from the cassette

40:25

tape. I've never heard what was actually

40:27

on the cassette tape.

40:28

All I heard was that there was

40:30

not a confession on the cassette tape, that

40:33

he adamantly denied having any involvement

40:35

in Becky's disappearance and that he blamed

40:38

my aunt profusely for

40:40

him committing suicide because she wouldn't leave him alone.

40:42

I don't know that I'd be able to

40:45

read the transcript or listen to it. I don't ever

40:47

want to have an excuse to feel empathy towards

40:49

him. If there's something in his

40:52

tape or in his note that would cause

40:54

me to doubt that he did this to her, I don't want

40:56

that because I have to have somebody to blame and he seems

40:58

like the logical choice. He seems like the most

41:01

logical choice based on their history, based

41:03

on the police contact that they

41:05

had had because of him brutalizing

41:08

her. I mean in

41:09

my head it's a puzzle and he's

41:11

the last piece of the puzzle and I don't want any

41:14

reason to doubt that that piece is going to fit

41:16

where it belongs in this

41:17

story because it's him, he did it.

41:20

I don't want to read his transcript and I don't want to be

41:22

empathetic towards him because he doesn't deserve that.

41:24

And if I'm wrong, prove it and then I will

41:27

feel empathetic towards him and then maybe I'll read

41:29

the transcript but I don't want a reason to be

41:31

feeling bad for the guy.

41:44

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41:46

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41:48

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42:24

We never heard the tape or read the transcript

42:26

of Carl's last moments alive, but

42:29

it felt like by the time he died at the end

42:31

of 2007, there should have been more answers. But

42:34

Katie expressed that it was a constant fight

42:37

to get the police to do anything at all.

42:40

When my mom kind of discovered that my

42:42

sister was missing and she tried to go

42:44

to Milwaukee to file a police report,

42:47

they wouldn't even take a missing persons report

42:50

on my sister. They said she was an

42:52

adult, she has every right to go missing.

42:54

So my mom was persistent and

42:57

kept calling and calling and calling

42:59

and saying, my daughter is missing, my daughter

43:02

is missing. Sergeant Crawley had brought

43:04

up, he said, you know, your sister's

43:06

missing persons report wasn't even taken

43:09

until November of the following year. And

43:11

I said, because the Milwaukee

43:13

Police Department would not take a missing

43:15

persons report. I said things were

43:18

different 20 years ago. He said, well,

43:20

someone walked into my department today. He said,

43:22

you're damn right, I would take a police report. And I

43:24

said, you weren't here 20 years

43:27

ago. And no one would take my

43:29

mom's police report. The Milwaukee

43:31

Police Department made my mom

43:33

go to the FBI. The FBI

43:36

actually did get involved. The FBI

43:38

went with my mom down to Miami because

43:41

Carl had claimed that my sister went to

43:43

Miami, that my sister was kidnapped

43:46

and was taken to Miami. And

43:48

she was prosecuting and stripping. That's what

43:50

Carl had claimed. So the police

43:53

department said, no, Carl claims

43:55

that she was kidnapped and three

43:57

black guys took her to Miami. So

43:59

my mom... got the FBI involved, they actually

44:02

listened to my mom and they only got

44:04

involved because they thought that my

44:06

sister could have been kidnapped. They went

44:08

with her and they met her down in Miami

44:10

and they went to the strip club that my sister

44:13

worked at and they talked to all the

44:15

dancers and to the owner of the club

44:17

and they were like, no, she's not

44:20

down here, that's not what happened and

44:22

the FBI actually went back to Milwaukee

44:24

and said, no, she was not kidnapped,

44:27

this is a case of a missing person

44:29

and now you have to take the report and then

44:32

that was finally when they actually took

44:34

a missing report on my sister. That

44:36

is crazy to me, crazy.

44:39

So my sister did not get a missing

44:41

persons report until November

44:44

of 2004.

44:46

So

44:46

when he said that my blood was boiling, I'm like

44:49

listen, you don't understand what

44:51

happened 20 years ago. You were probably just

44:53

a kid, he's young. The Milwaukee Police

44:56

Department 20 years ago was not what

44:58

it is today and they have

45:00

been very difficult in the

45:02

past to work with. John Walsh

45:05

came in and tried to feature my sister's

45:07

story and the Milwaukee Police Department

45:10

would not give him any information

45:13

and that was heartbreaking to

45:15

my mom because she wanted my sister's story

45:17

to be featured and he couldn't do

45:19

it without the police willing to work with him.

45:21

John Walsh had three detectives that he was

45:24

willing to bring in to work with the Milwaukee

45:26

Police Department to try to solve my sister's

45:28

case. They denied their request.

45:31

There was a lot of information to take in about

45:33

the lack of police cooperation.

45:36

We were disturbed by the fact that just 20 years

45:38

ago police were brushing off what was

45:40

clearly foul play as a voluntary

45:42

disappearance and contradicting themselves

45:45

in doing so. Yes, Becky

45:47

had gone to Florida on her own volition

45:49

to escape Carl but that's completely

45:52

different than what Carl told police about her

45:54

being kidnapped. Didn't that bother

45:56

anyone at the police department? We

45:58

thought it should.

45:59

But what Katie told us about the Milwaukee police

46:02

just disturbed us even further and

46:04

was consistent with the hostile responses

46:06

we've gotten from them over the last several

46:08

months in our attempts to cover a

46:11

number of cases in their jurisdiction.

46:14

I guess I'll start from the beginning. I called there, I got

46:16

another detective who was like, okay,

46:18

well, she's not at her desk. I'm

46:20

gonna leave a message. I left a message

46:23

for her. She didn't call me back, so I called the next day. And

46:25

I was like, you know what? I'm just gonna keep calling until

46:27

she talks to me. She's gotta talk to me. So the

46:29

next day I called, she was out of the office that day.

46:32

So I left another message. I kind

46:34

of told the detective a little bit about my sister.

46:36

She pulled up my sister's case and she's like, oh my gosh,

46:39

she's been missing for a really long time. And

46:41

I'm like, she has. I just wanna know what's

46:43

going on with my sister's case. I just

46:46

have some questions for her. I was a little upset.

46:48

I started crying and I felt bad because I was crying

46:50

to this other detective who knew nothing about my sister's

46:52

case. And she's like, I get

46:54

it. You have a reactor call. I will make

46:57

sure she calls you. So the next

46:59

day she actually called me. The first

47:01

thing out of her mouth was, your

47:03

sister's case number is blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah,

47:05

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And I said, stop right

47:08

there. That is not why I'm calling. I know

47:10

my sister's case number. She

47:12

has been missing for 20 years. I am

47:14

aware of what my sister's case number is. She

47:16

said, well, I'm just calling to inform you

47:19

you can get this information yourself.

47:21

And I said, I'm calling because I

47:23

wanna speak to you because you are the person handling

47:25

my sister's missing person's case. And

47:28

I have questions for you. She said,

47:30

well, I'm not allowed to talk or to give

47:32

information over the phone. And I

47:34

said, well, how about we set up a meeting

47:37

between you and I, and we can sit down

47:39

and talk about it. It doesn't have to be

47:41

something very formal. It can be something like very

47:44

casual. I can meet you at the police department

47:46

or we can meet somewhere else. And she started

47:49

laughing and she goes, I don't do that.

47:51

So now I'm frustrated. And I'm like, listen, there

47:54

has been no contact with my family for the last 15

47:57

years on my sister's case. I am a

47:59

victim. this case. I don't give a fuck

48:02

how you look at it. I am a victim. My

48:04

sister was taken from me and I am a victim

48:06

just like my sister but my sister is a voiceless

48:08

victim and she can't speak for herself. So

48:11

at this point, I have every right to ask questions

48:13

and I want to know what you have done in

48:15

the last 15 years. And so now she's

48:17

pissed, whatever, fine. I

48:20

just want information. So then she gave me

48:22

my sister's case number again. She said, it's

48:24

open records. You can get it yourself. And I said,

48:26

you know what? I said, the way that you are treating me is

48:28

not okay. And I'd like to speak with your superior

48:31

officer. And she goes, he's not in but

48:33

if you want to talk to somebody, you can call City Hall.

48:35

And I said, City Hall? And she

48:38

goes, yeah, or you can call the chief of police

48:40

whatever works best for you. At this

48:42

point, I'm pissed off. I'm so upset.

48:45

She ended up hanging by me. I was

48:47

yelling at her. I don't even remember what I said because

48:49

I was so upset. I hung up and

48:51

then I actually called whatever

48:53

the there was like a number to file a complaint

48:56

against an officer. So I ended up calling

48:58

and the dispatcher transferred me to

49:01

an officer or a sergeant,

49:03

but he was not the sergeant for that department.

49:06

I told him everything that had happened.

49:08

He was very apologetic. He

49:10

looked up who Officer Vines was and he's

49:13

like, I'm, I'm not trying to say

49:15

anything about her, but she's very young.

49:17

And sometimes our young officers, you

49:20

know, they just don't know how to deal with people.

49:22

So he emailed me like a complaint

49:24

form that I could fill out in email

49:27

back. But he said, you know what I want

49:29

you to do? I want you to call back

49:31

and I want you to speak to her

49:33

sergeant, which is Sergeant Crawley. If he

49:36

doesn't answer or he's not there, he said,

49:38

just keep calling back until you talk to Sergeant Crawley

49:40

because that's her direct supervisor. So

49:42

I ended up talking to Sergeant Crawley.

49:45

It took me over a week to get in contact

49:47

with him. And then when I finally did get

49:49

in contact with him, I mean, he was apologetic,

49:52

but he was like, you need to understand that

49:55

she's the one that works all of our missing cases

49:58

and she's only about with the department. for

50:00

two years and she's new. And

50:02

I said, that doesn't excuse the fact

50:05

how she treated me. And I said, this is

50:07

not how you treat a family of

50:09

the missing, I'm appalled. And

50:12

he's like, you know, I'm gonna be very blunt with you. I

50:15

don't believe that your sister is alive. And I don't

50:17

believe that we'll ever find her body. And

50:20

I said, I agree with you. I

50:23

understand that, but I believe that there are

50:25

people that are connected to my sister's case

50:28

that have answers and that could

50:30

potentially tell us what happened

50:32

to my sister. So I feel

50:35

like for my family that we have that

50:37

right to know where my sister is,

50:40

even if we're not gonna get her back alive.

50:42

Despite her frustration, Katie

50:44

did learn that the sergeant she spoke with had gone

50:47

through Becky's case file and shared

50:49

with her what investigative work had been done

50:51

on the case, despite the shared

50:53

sentiment that she probably would not be found

50:55

alive.

50:57

He said that he sat down with my sister's

50:59

files, that there was over 300 files. He

51:02

said that she has the largest

51:05

bin in their office filled with records.

51:08

Her case is being actively

51:10

worked. So the last time that a tip

51:12

came in was from a jailhouse

51:15

snitch and that it didn't

51:17

amount to anything. And that the

51:19

last time anything had been

51:21

done on the case had been several years

51:23

ago, and they went and re-interviewed

51:27

my sister's boyfriend's father who

51:30

was 86 years old and in a nursing

51:32

home and didn't remember anything. So

51:35

something interesting that Sergeant Cawley shared

51:37

with me

51:38

that my mom had no knowledge of,

51:41

and he was very uncomfortable sharing

51:43

with me. And he said that it is

51:45

in a report that I will find when

51:47

I do the open records. Some information

51:49

that we already knew was my sister's boyfriend,

51:52

Carl, his uncle who happens

51:54

to own a funeral home

51:56

was an ex Milwaukee police officer. And

52:00

He said that in early

52:02

December of 2003, there was a 92-year-old woman that was sent

52:05

for cremation

52:09

to a different cremation

52:11

service that this funeral home had

52:14

never used before. And

52:16

he said that the box that

52:18

was sent to the cremation was

52:21

double the weight of what it

52:23

should have been. He said the woman was like a

52:25

92-pound woman, but

52:27

there was a 250-pound or 300-pound casket. He

52:33

said it was like a paper box with a wood bottom.

52:36

And he said that this box, it was

52:38

sent off, but it was sealed. And he said

52:40

that in the state of Wisconsin, when you send

52:42

a body for a cremation, they're not allowed to

52:44

open it. This box was sent to a different

52:47

cremation than the funeral home

52:49

usually uses. And that

52:51

it was his thought, he's 90%

52:54

sure that my sister was in that box. He's

52:57

like, there's just no way that they could extract

52:59

your sister's DNA from those ashes.

53:02

Because my question was, okay, why can't

53:04

the police department go to her

53:06

family and say, listen, this is the situation.

53:09

Is there any way that we could get your grandma's

53:12

ashes? Somebody's got her ashes. And

53:14

he was like, yeah, that's

53:16

pretty much out of the question.

53:18

There have been cadaver dogs searches

53:20

for my sister. There have actually

53:22

been several graves that have been exhumed.

53:24

Like I said earlier, his uncle

53:27

owned a funeral home. So my mom

53:29

actually raised funds and

53:31

paid to have graves exhumed.

53:34

I believe she had two. I think there's still

53:36

one left that was buried in 2003 that

53:39

has not been exhumed because their family

53:41

wouldn't give permission. But two families

53:44

did give permission. My mom paid

53:46

for those to be exhumed, but her

53:48

body was never found. But back

53:51

then, when my mom was doing all that stuff, no

53:53

one had given her the information about

53:56

the cremation and how

53:58

that body had been sent to another family. cremation

54:01

facility. So I don't know that back

54:03

then she would have done all that had she known

54:05

that information. The way that

54:07

Sergeant Crawley made it sound was

54:09

that they never used this

54:12

cremation service before. They

54:14

used it only one time and

54:17

he didn't know exactly the date but he said

54:19

I could find it in a report. They

54:21

actually interviewed that

54:24

cremation service and they were

54:26

ruled out as being involved in anything.

54:29

They didn't know anything. He said, I'm confident

54:31

that the cremation service did not

54:33

know anything. They weren't involved in it.

54:36

Used the service one time just to get rid of

54:38

my sister's body and then went

54:40

back to using the other cremation

54:42

service. He's like, I'm going to be really

54:45

blunt with you and I don't want you to be upset but

54:47

he's like, I'm 90% sure she

54:49

was sent in that box to

54:51

that crematorium and she was

54:53

burned with that other lady and

54:57

they can't extract DNA now

55:00

that they've been burned. You'll never

55:02

be able to extract her DNA from those ashes

55:04

because my first question is, okay, well, if

55:06

you're telling me this, then how come

55:09

you can't go get something from

55:11

a judge and get those ashes so

55:13

that at least DNA can try to be extracted?

55:15

And he's like, that's just not possible. That just can't

55:17

happen.

55:19

This clue was particularly telling if

55:21

true and the timing is more alarming

55:24

than anything else. Despite

55:26

recent advancements in DNA identification

55:29

of cremated remains, the science

55:31

behind it remains experimental at best.

55:34

Many funeral homes state in their frequently

55:36

asked questions that cremated remains

55:38

can be identified via DNA,

55:41

but they don't address how exactly

55:43

a body is cremated. Once removed

55:45

from the oven, a bone pulverizer is

55:47

used to remove any chunks of bone or

55:49

teeth, which is what funeral homes

55:52

making this claim rely on as proof

55:54

that you can DNA test cremated remains.

55:57

Furthermore, a cremation oven

55:59

is never going to be to be completely clean

56:01

of other ashes unless it's brand

56:03

new.

56:04

And the sergeant mentioned Becky possibly

56:06

having been cremated in a box with another

56:08

woman. This would make DNA identification

56:11

of those remains even more difficult and

56:14

likely require the permission of that

56:16

woman's family as well.

56:18

All that being said, the U.S. government

56:20

has been working to pioneer the science of

56:22

DNA identification of cremated

56:24

remains for a number of years with promising

56:27

progress. It seems unfair to tell

56:29

a family member that something will never happen

56:32

when the science of DNA has evolved so

56:34

greatly just in the time that Becky

56:36

has been missing. We're doing things in 2023

56:38

that police and

56:41

others said would never be possible in 2003.

56:44

Katie said she was already thinking the same way

56:46

we were and her husband tried one unconventional

56:49

method of finding out for himself.

56:52

One of my husband's best friends passed away and we

56:54

have his ashes and it's so funny

56:56

because my husband and I actually opened it

56:58

up because my husband was like, I want to see what it

57:01

actually looks like and he's like, there's pieces of bones

57:03

in there. We were very careful but yet

57:05

there aren't little bones in there. You

57:07

could see little fragments of

57:10

stuff and I was telling my husband I don't get why

57:12

they couldn't extract something

57:14

from a fragment of bone but then

57:16

he said if she's mixed with somebody else because

57:18

we could see like little pieces

57:21

of bone in it. And my husband was

57:23

pretty sure he saw a tooth in there and I was like, oh

57:25

that's really creepy.

57:27

Could it really be true that Becky's body was

57:29

disposed of in this manner? In

57:31

a 2011 interview with Milwaukee

57:33

magazine, Becky's mother Karen

57:36

said that she had hired a private investigator who

57:38

found proof that Carl's vehicle had

57:40

been parked out front of his uncle's funeral home

57:43

on the morning of December 14th 2003 around 4 a.m.

57:47

She said that there were two parking tickets that confirmed

57:50

this. Karen took this information to

57:52

the district attorney and that was how

57:54

she was able to get approval to get those two

57:56

grave sites exhumed. The people

57:58

who had been buried in the

57:59

days that followed Becky's disappearance.

58:02

Like Katie said, they didn't find Becky in

58:04

those graves. But what if she really

58:07

did get cremated with that older woman

58:09

who had passed away?

58:10

In that same article in Milwaukee Magazine,

58:13

someone close to the investigation stated

58:15

that Karen was wrong. It wasn't

58:17

Carl's vehicle parked in front of the funeral

58:20

home that night. It was his father's, Carl

58:22

Sr's suburban that was often used as

58:25

a hearse.

58:26

We don't know where the truth lies here as

58:28

far as the parking tickets from that night because

58:30

the record request we received did not

58:32

detail any of that information. So

58:35

we can only go off of what was said in

58:37

previous reporting. One of the

58:39

positive things that came out of Katie's negative

58:41

interaction with the first police officer she

58:43

contacted

58:44

was that Sergeant Crawley maintains an open

58:47

line of communication. He

58:48

hasn't been able to help Becky's family obtain

58:50

the records. Though we were able to obtain

58:53

some information on both Becky and Carl

58:56

through an open records request to the Milwaukee

58:58

Police Department fairly quickly. We

59:00

don't know if our request as media was handled

59:02

differently than Becky's family's request, but

59:05

they've been waiting for months now. Sergeant

59:08

Crawley did tell me

59:10

anything information wise.

59:13

He's like, if you have any questions or you need to know

59:15

anything, I will share with you

59:17

what I can share with you. Pick

59:19

up the phone and call me. I will keep an open

59:22

line of communication with you. He pretty

59:24

much told me don't call Officer Vine

59:27

without telling me don't call Officer Vine. He's

59:29

like, I think you'll get a lot of closure

59:31

when you get your sister's file. I

59:33

think you'll learn things about your sister that you didn't

59:35

know before. I feel very confident

59:38

that I know a lot about my sister. I was

59:40

like, what could be in there that I don't know about

59:42

my sister? Like I said, we're still

59:44

waiting for the records

59:46

people to call us. They're only open on Tuesdays

59:48

and Thursdays. But as of now, we

59:51

have not gotten a call.

59:53

Because of all the frustration with law enforcement

59:56

delays in taking a report, Becky's

59:58

family's perception that they didn't care about

59:59

Becky because she had left before

1:00:02

and the fact that Carl had told law enforcement

1:00:04

that she was a sex worker. Becky's

1:00:06

family and most especially her mother felt

1:00:09

the only thing they could do was to investigate

1:00:11

Becky's disappearance on their own and

1:00:13

Becky's mom Karen went to extreme lengths

1:00:15

to find her daughter to the point that her

1:00:18

marriage to Becky's dad Dave ended.

1:00:20

Here's Becky's cousin Jennifer on that.

1:00:23

I don't think she's ever stopped looking. She

1:00:25

has been relentless in her

1:00:28

search for her daughter. So

1:00:29

I don't know that she stopped. She

1:00:31

may have slowed down a little bit but she definitely

1:00:33

hasn't stopped. She founded

1:00:35

a non-for-profit but she

1:00:37

was. I know that she had gotten herself a job at

1:00:40

the Milwaukee Police Department at one point

1:00:42

just so she could be close, keep tabs on.

1:00:44

I think she was a dispatcher. She

1:00:46

was down in the core of Milwaukee hanging

1:00:48

posters and flyers and she

1:00:50

never stopped.

1:00:52

She had run-ins with Carl on

1:00:54

several occasions. I believe he called

1:00:56

the police on her for stalking him

1:00:58

or harassment or something

1:00:59

like that at one point too and I think

1:01:01

that was her goal. That was her goal was

1:01:03

to drive him to the point of confession

1:01:06

I think.

1:01:06

She's involved with helping other

1:01:08

families that have missing kids.

1:01:11

I don't know the details of their divorce but I know

1:01:14

that she has given her heart and

1:01:16

soul into trying to find Becky so I would

1:01:18

imagine

1:01:18

that there wasn't much energy

1:01:20

left to put into the marriage and so if I

1:01:22

had to speculate I would say that her relentless

1:01:25

search for her daughter is probably what ended their marriage

1:01:28

or maybe the lack of support

1:01:30

from her husband is what ended the marriage

1:01:32

and I don't want to sound like Dave didn't give

1:01:34

a shit right because I feel like he did.

1:01:36

He's not the kind of person that put

1:01:38

himself out there and say you know he's

1:01:41

not gonna run up to the microphone

1:01:42

and give a interview

1:01:44

because that's not who he is. He is the

1:01:46

silent in the corner watching everything.

1:01:48

Her

1:01:49

insatiable need to

1:01:51

find her daughter versus his kind of. Let

1:01:54

nature take its course and let them do their jobs kind

1:01:56

of attitude at least at first

1:01:57

how I thought he was being. Let the police

1:01:59

do their job. job. Most of

1:02:01

us believe that if our child were to disappear,

1:02:04

we would do anything to find them. And

1:02:06

we know that Karen was desperate for answers.

1:02:09

Karen's quest sometimes crossed boundaries

1:02:12

and strained the relationship between the family

1:02:14

and law enforcement. In the 2011 Milwaukee

1:02:17

Magazine article titled Vigilante,

1:02:20

it says, quote, In Kramer's search,

1:02:23

she sometimes crosses the line. She

1:02:25

admits it. While Carl was alive,

1:02:27

she posted flyers at Union Grove Racetrack

1:02:30

and monitored his racing schedule. In

1:02:32

a trial run before one race, just

1:02:35

days before his suicide, Carl's

1:02:37

engine blew up. Someone, Kramer

1:02:40

smiles knowingly, put fine-grade

1:02:42

sugar in his car's gas tank. Kramer

1:02:45

became convinced she could prove Carl's

1:02:47

guilt if she got into his email account. She

1:02:49

had his email address but needed his password.

1:02:52

In her pursuit, she heard that Carl's

1:02:54

dog had been picked up one day by

1:02:56

the Wisconsin Humane Society. On

1:02:58

a hunch, she called the pound and started

1:03:01

asking questions.

1:03:02

When was the dog picked up, she asked an

1:03:04

employee, what type of breed was it, and

1:03:07

you happened to know the dog's name. Dominator

1:03:10

answered the employee. She logged

1:03:12

into Carl's account and typed the word Dominator

1:03:14

and boom, up came all of his emails,

1:03:17

she says. Kramer, meanwhile,

1:03:19

had set up an email account with a bogus name

1:03:21

at a public library. So her online

1:03:23

snooping couldn't be traced. Using

1:03:25

this account, she logged into Carl's email

1:03:27

every day. I controlled that guy's

1:03:30

computer for three months. Kramer

1:03:32

went into Carl's house during a police search.

1:03:34

She made the most of the opportunity, rummaging

1:03:37

through his dresser. She found health documents

1:03:40

showing that he had contracted several STDs.

1:03:43

She scanned the documents and using her fake

1:03:45

email account, sent them to more than 300 people

1:03:48

in

1:03:48

his address book, followed by another

1:03:50

email tying Becky's abuse and disappearance

1:03:52

to Carl. I know it's illegal to break

1:03:54

into his email, but who gives a shit? She

1:03:57

now says he killed my daughter. 29.

1:04:00

Nine women responded to the email saying

1:04:02

Karl abused them or gave them an STD,

1:04:04

Kramer says. The police said there was

1:04:06

nothing they could do unless they contracted

1:04:09

AIDS, and because they didn't report the abuse

1:04:11

at the time, they couldn't open an investigation,

1:04:14

she says. End

1:04:16

quote. It's easy to judge someone or say

1:04:18

what we would do if we were in this situation.

1:04:21

However, we could never really know what we would

1:04:23

do in a situation until we're in it. And

1:04:25

it's also important to acknowledge that Karen was

1:04:28

thrust into this situation and felt

1:04:30

forced to wear several different hats. Yes,

1:04:33

she was a grieving mother lashing out at the man

1:04:35

she had tried so hard to get her daughter away

1:04:37

from.

1:04:38

But remember that she was also acting as

1:04:40

lead investigator because the police

1:04:42

department wouldn't even take a missing report

1:04:44

for nearly a year.

1:04:46

In the same article, an investigator who

1:04:48

was not named said, "...as much as I feel

1:04:50

for Karen Kramer." She's alienated

1:04:53

a lot of people in her quest to find out what happened

1:04:55

to her daughter.

1:04:56

We did everything we could and she made us out

1:04:58

to be the bad guys. Karl's stepfather

1:05:01

claims that Karl was an innocent man and

1:05:03

Becky's mother had harassed him since 2003, up until his

1:05:05

death in 2007. But

1:05:09

his stepfather also put the blame on the women

1:05:11

in Karl's life, saying he just made

1:05:13

bad choices in the women he chose to be with

1:05:16

and even went as far as to call Becky a

1:05:18

tramp.

1:05:19

While reading the police files we received,

1:05:21

we could see many tips and rumors that were called

1:05:23

into the police. Many of these tips

1:05:26

came from Karen's search for answers, talking

1:05:28

to people and being a constant presence in

1:05:30

Karl's neighborhood, searching for new witnesses.

1:05:33

Jennifer explained that after Becky disappeared,

1:05:36

her aunt's life revolved around searching for Becky.

1:05:39

There was no space for anything else.

1:05:42

The rumors started floating around about how his

1:05:44

family owned a crematory and

1:05:47

talk starts going that he took her there

1:05:49

and they got her buried with another

1:05:51

person in the cemetery. And

1:05:53

my aunt went through

1:05:54

the trouble of

1:05:56

going through the red tape to get bodies exhumed.

1:05:58

I think she successfully got two.

1:05:59

different exhumations done,

1:06:02

which both clearly hand out to be nothing.

1:06:04

But there was a lot of focus on

1:06:07

that crematory and the

1:06:09

and the familial ties to that. There

1:06:11

was a point where somebody had mentioned that Carl

1:06:14

was parked in front of

1:06:15

the funeral home two nights after

1:06:18

Becky officially was missing.

1:06:19

She's gone the psychic route, she's gone

1:06:22

the

1:06:22

police department route, she's gone hiring

1:06:24

private investigator route, she's gone being

1:06:26

her own private investigator. I know that

1:06:29

she befriended people on the police department

1:06:31

totally for the purpose of trying to get

1:06:34

details. She's done a lot

1:06:36

of things, she's gone a lot of routes

1:06:37

and I feel like she's chased down every single

1:06:40

lead she's been handed or given or every

1:06:42

little feeling that a psychic said she's chased

1:06:44

down.

1:06:45

She had cadaver dogs at some point

1:06:48

involved searching an area

1:06:50

behind the house I believe behind

1:06:52

Carl's apartment. If it was an existence

1:06:55

as far as looking for cadavers or people

1:06:57

or anything I think she somehow or

1:06:59

another made it happen back then.

1:07:01

She's been super resourceful and her efforts.

1:07:03

I don't know when she ate, slept, did

1:07:06

anything. She lived, breathed,

1:07:08

and

1:07:08

walked, tried to walk Becky's

1:07:10

path to try to figure out where her daughter was. Becky

1:07:13

has been missing for nearly 20 years. In that

1:07:16

time she has missed out on all of life.

1:07:18

Nieces and nephews being born, marriages,

1:07:21

graduations, and so many other important

1:07:23

milestones. We asked her family

1:07:25

to reflect on what they missed most about her.

1:07:28

Becky's cousin Amy told us this.

1:07:31

Now that some time has passed that someone

1:07:33

who knows something might be able to come forward

1:07:36

and say we know that and

1:07:38

so the family can have closure because I think that's

1:07:40

what Katie needs. I know that's

1:07:42

what Katie needs and I know that

1:07:45

my aunt needs it

1:07:47

and we all need it but for Katie's

1:07:49

sake she's taken us the hardest.

1:07:52

It dictates her life. I'm sure

1:07:54

not a day goes by that she misses her sister

1:07:57

and not having answers is sad. And

1:08:00

I think if anything, we've been going through this

1:08:02

since 2003. It's

1:08:04

time. I think it's time for

1:08:06

us to be able to put Becky there after me. We haven't, we've

1:08:09

had vigils, right? We've

1:08:11

had prayer ceremonies, but

1:08:13

we haven't really been able to mourn. How

1:08:15

do you truly mourn unless you

1:08:18

truly know?

1:08:19

We've never truly been able to say goodbye. And

1:08:22

it's one thing when you have a loved one

1:08:24

who's diagnosed in terminal or whatever, and

1:08:26

you have that time and you know, you know,

1:08:28

and you can prepare yourself a little

1:08:30

bit.

1:08:31

But in this situation, there

1:08:34

was never even an opportunity to like, say

1:08:36

goodbye

1:08:36

or have closure or nothing

1:08:39

to pray over. It's just a big

1:08:41

question mark. So when I close

1:08:43

my eyes and I think of my family that I've been so

1:08:45

blessed to have,

1:08:47

ups and downs and traumatic

1:08:49

experiences and fun experience. When

1:08:51

I think about Becky, all I see is a big question mark

1:08:53

in my mind.

1:08:54

Where are you? What could we have built

1:08:57

as a family?

1:08:58

What kids would you have and would they be best

1:09:00

friends with my kids, like all of our cousins'

1:09:02

kids? What are we missing? Why

1:09:04

are we missing that piece of

1:09:07

Becky and her potential?

1:09:09

She would still be a huge part

1:09:11

growing up with her.

1:09:13

We know that we're missing and our children are missing.

1:09:16

And that's, I think that's the hardest thing

1:09:18

is, I can't speak of what happened

1:09:20

when she met my friend, but I can speak of who she

1:09:22

was. And I can truly, and

1:09:24

I do truly believe that something's been

1:09:26

taken away from me. Something's been taken away from our family

1:09:28

and

1:09:29

we don't know why. And we're paying

1:09:31

the price for that. And our kids

1:09:33

are paying the price for that for not knowing.

1:09:35

Katie's kids are.

1:09:37

My kids never knew Becky. Katie's

1:09:40

kids never knew Becky.

1:09:41

But we, who knew

1:09:43

Becky, know the life that she was

1:09:46

in our life. So

1:09:47

we know the life that's

1:09:48

been snuffed out of our kids' lives

1:09:51

by Becky not being a part of it. And

1:09:53

that to me is the hard part

1:09:55

to kind of reconcile in my

1:09:57

brain is that she was.

1:10:00

such a kind, caring

1:10:02

person. And

1:10:03

her nieces and nephews

1:10:06

are without that for

1:10:08

some reason. That's painful

1:10:10

to even try to reconcile because

1:10:12

they don't know what they lost because they didn't

1:10:14

have any exposure to it.

1:10:16

But we know,

1:10:17

we know the loss of her. That's a

1:10:19

hard one. I'm scared that we're never

1:10:21

going to know. And that's what scares

1:10:23

me the most is

1:10:25

if, let's say, hypothetically,

1:10:29

Carl did do what

1:10:31

my aunt and

1:10:33

some people believe. Now that he's

1:10:35

gone, how are we ever

1:10:37

going to find out? How are we ever going to know? And

1:10:40

that's the scary thing is because

1:10:42

I think a part of me wants to believe

1:10:44

that

1:10:45

she's still alive, but another part of me

1:10:48

knows Becky enough to know that if she

1:10:50

were, she wouldn't be missing.

1:10:52

It's not just Becky's family that is invested

1:10:55

in finding her and answers about what

1:10:57

happened to her. Christina remains confident

1:10:59

that something terrible happened to Becky after

1:11:02

she dropped her friend home from a night out.

1:11:05

It just shows what kind of person he is, even

1:11:07

though

1:11:08

he wasn't charged, he don't

1:11:10

have full proof. So it's hard to say

1:11:12

yes, it was him. But with the

1:11:14

kind of person we've seen him to be,

1:11:17

it's hard not to say it to him.

1:11:19

But who cares? At this point, we just want

1:11:21

her to come home, let her family

1:11:24

say goodbye. Did she get to leave him

1:11:26

and she took off and didn't contact any of

1:11:28

us? Is she safe somewhere and she's

1:11:30

not talking to us because she's

1:11:32

worried about him. But at the same time, you go

1:11:34

no, because she would have contacted one of

1:11:36

us. She may not have wanted to contact her

1:11:38

family or her mom

1:11:39

at that point, because there was a lot of things going on.

1:11:42

She would have contacted me or my sister.

1:11:44

I don't have a lot of questions

1:11:47

on if she ran away. It's very, very,

1:11:49

very minuscule, if you want to say of

1:11:51

her possibly running away. I really do not

1:11:53

believe she's with us anymore. And

1:11:56

it's for just

1:11:57

being able to find her and give her a

1:11:59

run.

1:11:59

place and letting us all say

1:12:02

goodbye. At least me, that's all

1:12:04

I ask is to be able to let her

1:12:06

mom and her family get some

1:12:09

peace and then we can also have

1:12:11

that peace. But knowing she's

1:12:13

alive or she's not, that's

1:12:16

the big question.

1:12:17

Because I can't see that she would be alive without

1:12:20

contacting me or my sister or my

1:12:22

mom

1:12:22

or her sister when her sister had babies.

1:12:25

Definitely. When her dad got sick she

1:12:27

would have,

1:12:28

Becky would have came out even though there

1:12:30

were problems between her and her parents,

1:12:32

she would have been around. If she was able

1:12:34

to be she would have been there for her dad.

1:12:36

Her and her dad were close when she was little.

1:12:39

She used to do all kinds of things with her dad. Becky

1:12:41

was the dad's little boy, flash girl.

1:12:44

She was just a tomboy and she liked to do all

1:12:46

that kind of stuff. So

1:12:47

she would have contacted somebody

1:12:50

several different times

1:12:52

in the last 20 years if she was

1:12:54

still

1:12:55

with us. When she went to Florida and

1:12:57

she was running away to Florida away from him

1:12:59

she called me first to tell me

1:13:01

that she was going to Florida.

1:13:03

Do we want to know and would we'd

1:13:05

like to know who? Oh of course.

1:13:08

Do we think we know who? Yes, but

1:13:10

we just want to be able to say our goodbyes and

1:13:12

give her a final resting place. So

1:13:15

what happened to Becky Marzo in December

1:13:17

of 2003? From what we know

1:13:20

about Becky's relationship with Carl, we

1:13:22

can see that it was full of red flags.

1:13:25

We know that after Becky started dating Carl,

1:13:28

her loved ones heard less and less from

1:13:30

her. And when Becky did contact

1:13:32

them, she didn't speak much of Carl.

1:13:35

But we know there were times that things got really

1:13:37

bad and she did go to her parents

1:13:39

for help.

1:13:40

Even going as far as reporting her abuse

1:13:43

to the police and feeling so desperate

1:13:45

that her only escape was to flee the state.

1:13:48

But Becky did come back and ended

1:13:50

up back with Carl. And some people

1:13:52

might say, well why didn't she leave? But

1:13:55

we know the answer to that is so complex.

1:13:58

And leaving an abuser is the most

1:13:59

dangerous time. We heard people

1:14:02

say that Carl had threatened to harm Becky's family

1:14:04

if she left him. It appears that Becky

1:14:07

felt stuck by those threats against

1:14:09

her family and perhaps struggled with her

1:14:11

own self-worth in the relationship. Regardless,

1:14:14

Becky is a missing person who has

1:14:16

people who love her dearly and are desperate

1:14:18

for answers. It's been many

1:14:20

years since Carl took his own life and

1:14:23

if he was in fact the person responsible

1:14:25

for Becky's disappearance, he likely

1:14:27

took many secrets to his grave. However,

1:14:30

there may still be people out there with information.

1:14:33

Is there another alternative ending to

1:14:35

this story? Is it possible that

1:14:38

Carl was just a bad man, an

1:14:40

abuser, alleged rapist, but

1:14:42

not a murderer? A man pushed

1:14:44

to the brink after years of being accused

1:14:47

of Becky's murder and also with

1:14:49

a trial for rape charges looming. Could

1:14:51

Becky have escaped again and took

1:14:53

off to Florida or anywhere and met

1:14:56

another fate? The chances of that

1:14:58

feel so slim based off of what we know,

1:15:01

but nothing is out of the realm of possibility

1:15:03

at this point. If you have any

1:15:05

information about the disappearance of Becky

1:15:08

Marzo, please call the Milwaukee

1:15:10

Police Department's Sensitive Crimes Division

1:15:12

at 414-935-7405.

1:15:14

If

1:15:18

you or a loved one are the victim of intimate

1:15:20

partner violence, please reach out

1:15:22

to the National Domestic Violence Hotline

1:15:24

at thehotline.org or via text

1:15:27

by sending the word START to 88788. You can also

1:15:29

call the hotline 24 hours a day, 7 days a week

1:15:33

at 1-800-799-SAFE. That's 1-800-799-7233. Before

1:15:41

my sister went missing, she had gone

1:15:43

down to Miami and she

1:15:46

was working at a strip club. Sergeant

1:15:48

Crawley actually had brought that up. Well, you know,

1:15:50

your sister's lifestyle wasn't

1:15:53

the best lifestyle and I said, and now you're

1:15:55

a victim, Shaini. I don't give

1:15:57

a shit what my sister did. What

1:16:00

gives a shit if she worked at a trip club?

1:16:02

Does that make her any less of a human? So

1:16:05

much time was lost. So much

1:16:07

evidence is lost.

1:16:09

My aunt has been condemned a little

1:16:11

bit for the tactics that she's used,

1:16:14

but I give her a lot of credit because she

1:16:16

has infiltrated

1:16:18

the Milwaukee Police Department from what I understand

1:16:21

to try to get answers in

1:16:24

a case that they didn't really feel

1:16:26

was important. They

1:16:28

never really seemed

1:16:30

to care about Becky

1:16:33

missing and they

1:16:35

didn't pull out all the stops, you

1:16:37

know? You would hope or you would think your

1:16:40

community would do for you, which is

1:16:42

really disappointing. I understand

1:16:45

that she might've been

1:16:46

in an abusive relationship. And

1:16:48

ideally for me, I've

1:16:51

always wished that she just went underground

1:16:53

in a witness protection program

1:16:56

and she's just living her life happy

1:16:58

and safe and secure. Doing

1:17:00

what she wants to do that fills her cup on

1:17:02

a daily basis.

1:17:03

That is what I wish. But

1:17:05

Becky would never

1:17:09

walk away from her family. The idea

1:17:11

of her being alive and she'll pop up

1:17:13

one day is a nice idea, but

1:17:16

we know.

1:17:16

I mean, we don't know about we know. We

1:17:19

know just because of the fact that she's been gone so

1:17:21

long as she hasn't made any contact. And

1:17:24

it's sad because we don't know how or why

1:17:26

or what. There's a lot of accusations

1:17:28

going around.

1:17:29

["A Scary Life"] ["A

1:17:33

Scary Life"] ["A

1:17:48

Scary Life"]

1:17:53

That brings us to the end of episode 399. I'd

1:17:57

like to thank everyone who spoke with us for

1:17:59

this series.

1:17:59

If you have a missing loved one that

1:18:02

you'd like to have featured on the show, there's

1:18:04

a case submission form at the vanished podcast.com.

1:18:07

If you'd like to join in on the discussion, there's a page

1:18:10

and discussion group on Facebook. You can

1:18:12

find us on Twitter at the vanished pod and

1:18:14

also on Instagram. If you like

1:18:16

our show, please give us a five star rating and

1:18:18

review. You can also support the show

1:18:21

by contributing on Patreon. Be

1:18:23

sure to tune in next week. We'll be covering

1:18:25

another case from Wisconsin. Thanks

1:18:27

for listening.

1:18:30

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

1:19:02

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survey.

1:19:22

The hunt is on for a suspected

1:19:24

killer following the horrifying

1:19:26

homicides of four University

1:19:28

of Idaho students. I'm Kana Whitworth with

1:19:30

ABC News. When I got sent to Moscow,

1:19:33

Idaho to cover the murders of four college students,

1:19:35

it was a story that didn't make any sense.

1:19:38

Four students stabbed to death in

1:19:40

their beds while two roommates were

1:19:42

home.

1:19:43

You got to think to yourself, okay, who's

1:19:46

the target and how many people would

1:19:48

a man go through to get to his target?

1:19:50

For six weeks after the murders, the

1:19:53

pressure mounted until finally.

1:19:55

The arrest of a 28 year old man in Pennsylvania.

1:19:58

Living just a few miles away.

1:19:59

from the murder scene pursuing his

1:20:02

PhD in criminology. This

1:20:04

is the story of savage murders,

1:20:07

a determined small-town police force, and

1:20:09

a scholar of crime now

1:20:11

indicted. This is the King

1:20:14

Road Killings, a new podcast from ABC

1:20:16

Audio, out now wherever

1:20:18

you get your podcasts.