This is the second clip from my interview with Ian Welsh (Ian blogs at ianwelsh.net). For this segment, we went on a wild ride discussing the big picture mess that is US politics and society more broadly. I asked Ian what might happen if Trump lost and refused to leave and the resulting discussion meandered through a variety of interesting topics, including the 2000 Bush-Gore election debacle and the problems it enabled, the hope embodied in the squad, whether and what sort of help people want, and the specter of twelve more years of neoliberal politics. (Perish the thought.) All of this was couched in the shadow of the increasingly problematic nature of climate change.

I’ll ask you to pay heed to Ian when he summons Donella Meadows in calling for people to make change where you can. That’s where I think we all ought to be focusing our attention. We need to try to ignore the cacophony as much as possible and try to pitch in where we can help the most. That seems crucial at this moment.

Check out my book, Pandemic Capitalism.

The podcast’s backing track is Never Forget by Ketsa.

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