0:10

Welcome to the Therapy for Black Girls Podcast,

0:14

a weekly conversation about mental

0:16

health, personal development, and

0:18

all the small decisions we can make to

0:20

become the best possible versions of ourselves.

0:23

I'm your host, Dr Joy Hard

0:25

and Bradford, a licensed psychologist

0:28

in Atlanta, Georgia. For more

0:30

information or to find a therapist

0:33

in your area, visit our website

0:35

at Therapy for Black Girls dot com.

0:38

While I hope you love listening to and

0:41

learning from the podcast, it is

0:43

not meant to be a substitute for relationship

0:46

with a licensed mental health professional.

0:55

Hey, y'all, thanks so much for joining

0:58

me for session one twenty of the the Epy

1:00

for Black Girls Podcast. I

1:02

know that for many of you it's back to school time

1:05

or it soon will be, so I

1:07

wanted to dig into a topic to hopefully help

1:09

stave off a few mail downs for both you

1:11

and your kids. In today's

1:14

episode, we'll be talking about how

1:16

we can work to better regulate our own emotions

1:18

so that we can help our kids regulate theirs.

1:22

For this conversation, I was joined by

1:24

Dr and Louise Lockhart. Dr

1:26

Lockhart is a pediatric psychologist,

1:29

parent coach, national speaker,

1:32

author, and business owner of a growing

1:34

psychology practice in San Antonio,

1:37

Texas. She was born and raised

1:39

on the island of St. Croix. Dr

1:42

Lockhart and I discussed what co regulation

1:44

is, how it can be useful in

1:47

strengthening your relationship with your kids,

1:49

how we can make sure we have enough reserves

1:52

to manage our own emotions, and

1:54

the important distinction between discipline

1:56

and punishment. If you hear

1:59

something that really us and need to with you while listening,

2:02

please make sure to share it with us on social

2:04

media using the hashtag tv

2:06

G in Session. Here's

2:08

our conversation. Thank you so much

2:10

for joining us today, Dr Lockhart, Thank

2:12

you for having me. I appreciate it. Yeah,

2:15

so it is back to school time. You

2:17

know, parents are soon to be back to school

2:20

for some people. My little ones went back last

2:22

week, and so you know, we

2:24

want to like make sure that we're starting the school year

2:26

off right, thinking about like what kinds of plans

2:28

we can have in place, what kinds of routines we maybe

2:31

need to adjust to kind of make

2:33

sure that we're kind of starting off on the right foot.

2:35

And I know, in the conversation you and I had

2:37

before we started recording, you know,

2:39

we often want to look at like what's going on

2:42

with our kids as opposed to

2:44

what may actually be going on with us that

2:47

is actually impacting our kids. So that's

2:49

what I want to chat with you about today,

2:51

about how we as parents

2:53

can do a better job of kind of taking care of ourselves

2:56

and regulating ourselves so that we can then share

2:58

that with our children. Definitely, that's a great

3:00

idea. We need a lot to help with that, and

3:04

I think, you know, I think it is something that we do have

3:06

to be careful about because I think sometimes we

3:08

get too much into kind of picking up our

3:10

kids behaviors that we don't recognize

3:13

that the issue may actually be with us. That's

3:15

exactly right. And I think that it's

3:17

a fine line between parents

3:19

actually targeting

3:22

what's going on with their kids and then blaming themselves.

3:25

And I think when people engage a

3:27

lot of that parent guild and shame and

3:29

say well, my kid is bad because of me, I was like,

3:31

Okay, just stop that. It's not about blaming

3:33

and it's not about pointing the finger, but

3:35

it's about knowing that we impact

3:38

our kids behavior, that our mood impacts

3:40

are our kids moved as well too. So if

3:42

we're rushed and we're hurry and we're in a skinky

3:45

old mood. Then our kids are going to pick up on that

3:47

and they're going to reflect that back, except

3:50

they don't know how to control their impulses and their behavior,

3:52

so it's going to come across as more irritating and annoying

3:54

for us. Right, right, right,

3:57

Really, I'm really glad you made that distinction,

3:59

right, But is I think it's important to remember

4:02

that parenting does not come with a manual,

4:04

right, Like, so much of this is on the job

4:06

training and kind of figuring out as you go

4:09

along, and so I think it can be easy to kind

4:11

of get into some of those behaviors of blaming

4:13

yourself and like, oh I could have showed A would have But

4:15

really it's just an opportunity for you to

4:17

learn something differently in to try to do a better

4:19

job. The next thing exactly exactly

4:22

that. It's that there's lots of different things

4:24

that we can read and look at Google about

4:26

parenting, but when it comes down to what

4:28

we have two parent based on our individual

4:31

child need, their personality, their temperament,

4:33

and life circumstance, there's so many

4:35

different things to keep in mind and to keep other considerations.

4:38

So I think parents need to be more gentle

4:40

with themselves and give themselves more of a break

4:42

when it comes to it, because every time you think

4:44

you've mastered one stage, they switched it up

4:47

on you and it's a whole new thing. Right

4:50

just when you thought you had it under control, here

4:52

they go with like a new thing. Yeah, they're

4:54

like, where the heck did this come from? Their

4:57

human beings and their minds and their

4:59

brain are growing at a very rapid

5:01

rate. So yeah, we just have to

5:03

make sure we respond properly and

5:06

as effectively as possible, and

5:08

then that way we can really shape their behaviors

5:10

for the better rather than just focusing

5:12

on so much punishment all the time. So I know something

5:15

after a lockhood that you work with a lot

5:17

with the parents that you work within your practice

5:19

is on coregulation. So can

5:21

you tell us what that is? Yes,

5:24

definitely. So co regulation

5:26

is a term that I learned about quite recently

5:28

the past few years as well. Even after doing this for

5:30

so long, I had learned a lot about regulation

5:33

and self regulation, but coregulation was kind

5:35

of a new term for me and for a lot of people. So

5:38

regulation is when you can basically

5:40

practice some level of control

5:43

over your thoughts, your behaviors, your actions.

5:45

You're regulating. You're saying, Okay,

5:48

this person just gave me, you know, funny

5:50

look, and I could custom out or

5:52

I could walk away. Like regulated

5:54

behavior means I don't respond to every

5:56

impulse that I have. Okay. So

6:00

we learned that what we should be learning this as

6:02

we grow older, so that by the time we're fully

6:04

functioning adults, that we should be pretty regulated.

6:07

But as we know, not every adult

6:09

is a regulated adult, and not in

6:11

every situation. For us personally,

6:13

we can say that we're always regulating ourselves

6:16

properly. Okay, m hm. So

6:18

co regulation is something that occurs

6:21

in a much more basic level that occurs really

6:23

when we're younger because we need

6:25

someone else to help us do it. So

6:28

as children and parents, the way

6:31

we help co regulation is

6:33

by basically it occurs in the form

6:35

of a close relationship with a

6:38

caregiver and someone who we have a healthy

6:40

attachment with. So that

6:42

would include if you have a little baby, for

6:44

example, and they're fussy and they're crying,

6:47

coal regulation would involve going in and

6:49

rubbing their back in the crib for

6:51

example, not putting them

6:53

to sleep or picking them up necessarily, but

6:55

it may just be soothing them because

6:57

you know all their needs have been met and you're

6:59

helping them to regulate themselves

7:02

by giving them some coregulation by

7:04

rubbing their back. For a toddler, it might

7:06

mean they're fussy, they're crying, they're upset

7:08

about somebody hurting their feelings, for example,

7:11

So a coregulation might be rocking

7:13

them and speaking to them in a calm

7:16

voice to help bring down the energy.

7:19

Maybe modeling breaths, not telling

7:21

them just breathe and calm down. That's not a co regulation,

7:25

but it's about maybe just holding them against

7:27

your chest so they can feel you breathing

7:29

in and breathing out. So they learned

7:31

to co regulate through you

7:34

because you're staying calm. But

7:36

it also happens in adult relationships. So

7:38

if you're like super upset about something

7:40

that happened at work and your spouse

7:42

or your partner is telling you, oh, man,

7:44

that sounds like that was really hard. How can

7:47

I help you with that? They're actually helping

7:49

you with coregulation because they're forming an

7:51

emotional fund and connection with you to help

7:53

you kind of calm yourself down, rather

7:55

than them telling you it's not a big deal, calm yourself

7:57

down. So it's all formed on a lot

7:59

of attachment and connection and relationships.

8:02

That's what coregulation is all about. So

8:05

if I'm understanding correctly, it really

8:07

is about so you're still regulating

8:09

yourself, but a lot of it comes

8:11

from kind of being connected to this other person

8:13

who is in your presence right that they're

8:15

helping you kind of be there's sensitive

8:18

enough to your emotional distress

8:20

or your physical distress, and they're

8:22

helping you get to the point where then you could start

8:24

doing it, but don't. You don't always

8:26

have to become dependent on them to do

8:29

it. But they're kind of serving as a

8:31

support, as a crush in a sense

8:33

to to help you get through and

8:35

not crushing a bad way, crushing in a very

8:38

supportive way, so that you're they're

8:40

helping you kind of get through it in a sense, to

8:42

get through on the other side. Okay,

8:45

so of course, you know, I mean you already

8:47

mentioned that, like to be able to do this, you

8:50

have to kind of have enough emotional presence

8:52

to be able to kind of step in and

8:55

see what needs to happen. But if you don't

8:57

know, then it makes it difficult

8:59

for you to and offer that to someone else to

9:01

correct. And that's why I tell parents so much

9:04

why being a martyr for

9:06

your kids is not healthy for you

9:08

or your children, because if you are running

9:10

yourself ragged, always on

9:13

the go, always being a mom or a

9:15

dad to your child all the time, never

9:17

taking time for yourself, never going on dates with

9:19

your spouse, to your partner, I'm never going up

9:21

with your girls, never just taking a nap.

9:24

If you are so spent and stressed

9:27

and kind of stressed out all the time,

9:29

then you're not going to have any reserves

9:31

left for your child. You're going

9:33

to be so worn out that when they

9:36

need health regulating, you can't offer

9:38

it to them because you're so tapped out yourself. So

9:41

I strongly believe in having a balanced life

9:43

because when and my kids know that.

9:46

My kids are nine and seven, and they understand

9:48

that when I'm taking a nap, that's for their own

9:50

safety.

9:54

Because if i'm that's time that I don't even take of nap.

9:56

But I love these naps like that

9:58

helps me to be a better mom because

10:00

then I am arrested, I'm taking care

10:03

of and I will respond to them in

10:05

a more in a healthier way, so that

10:07

if they're disregulated, I can help

10:09

them calm down rather than yelling

10:11

across the room to calm down or

10:13

to deal with it, or to stop crying or

10:16

whatever it is. And I think that's why

10:18

it's so important for parents to really understand that

10:20

they have to take care of themselves as

10:22

well before they take care of their kids. Kind of like when

10:24

you're on a plane, right, you don't put the oxygen

10:26

mass on your kid or the dependent person. You put it

10:28

on yourself first. And that's an analogy

10:30

I hear often is that you can't

10:33

pour from an empty cut all these different

10:35

you know, sayings and inspirational quotes, there's

10:37

truth to that, is that you can't

10:39

pour from something that's spent and that's empty.

10:42

And that's what we do so often when we run ourselves

10:44

ragget, and then we think we could be an effective

10:46

parent. No, we can't, because you're not going

10:49

to be because you don't have your reserves.

10:51

Your reserves are spent. Got

10:54

it. Okay, So let's say somebody's

10:56

listening now and they recognize, like, oh my gosh,

10:58

this is me. I struggle with this where

11:01

can they start to maybe make some improvements

11:03

so that they can do a better job of regulating

11:05

themselves and then helping their kids to co regulate.

11:08

That's a great question. So I know, because

11:10

so many of us are away from our

11:12

families and their support system. We're

11:14

in a much more mobile society and we're not raising

11:16

our kids or growing up in areas where we have a

11:19

lot of support. So this could be a strouble when

11:21

you don't have that. So I think that

11:23

one is if you are near supportive,

11:25

healthy family members, to utilize

11:28

those family members. I think so often so many

11:30

of us, especially as black women, we

11:32

think we got to do it all ourselves and that we don't need nobody

11:35

and we don't need no help. And I think

11:37

that there is we can't follow that

11:39

total independent way of operating because

11:42

that's not going to help us with the regulation.

11:44

So it's about really using the people

11:46

in our lives who are healthy, who can

11:48

help us detach so that we

11:50

can reconnect. So whether it's taking care

11:53

of the kids, whether it's going over

11:55

to the house and hanging out, whatever

11:57

it is, but using those supports

11:59

that build edge that can help you kind

12:01

of balance life out. If

12:03

you don't have the family. I think that's where it's important to form

12:06

a good social support network because

12:08

there's lots to be said where there's healing,

12:11

where there's connection. So if

12:13

you can have that connection with other friends, whether

12:15

it's in your church, whether it's with work,

12:18

whether it's just people in your neighborhood, but other

12:20

support systems that can really help you that there's

12:23

there's lots of research at points to enjoyable

12:26

activities, social activities

12:28

and physical activities, and the enjoyable

12:31

social and physical are what helped keep us

12:33

safe, rounded, and it's kind of

12:35

staves off anything like anxiety,

12:37

depression, isolation, all

12:39

of those things. And it's the same thing that goes for parenting.

12:42

And so that's a good way to regulate as well too, is that

12:44

you use your family you don't have that, make sure you ever

12:46

get social support network to help

12:48

you through a lot of those times that are going on.

12:50

So I think that is the most important

12:53

thing. And I know for me that's what helps

12:55

me the most is to be able to detach

12:57

from the kids so that I can reconnect with the

12:59

kids and using people in my life

13:01

that I can also be helpful. So I think those are

13:03

really really, really important. So

13:06

creating some space for you to kind of even just

13:08

step away, like you said, and to you know, make

13:10

sure that you are um involving

13:12

yourself and enjoying yourself in other parts

13:14

of your life besides your role as a

13:17

parent, exactly exactly, so you have that

13:19

social support, but you also do the fun things

13:21

like don't feel guilty if

13:23

you've mane important to get at your hair done or your nails

13:25

done, or to just hang out by yourself like

13:27

those. We need time away

13:30

from our kids. We can't be a parent Tony Fourse

13:32

something that's not realistic, and we're

13:34

not going to do a very good job regulating ourselves

13:37

or helping to co regulate our kids if

13:39

we're so exhausted. So I think

13:41

that that's one piece of it, right, like the you

13:43

know, being able to kind of create some space for

13:45

yourself. But I think another part of this, and

13:48

what I'm hearing from you, is that it

13:50

is also really important that we learn

13:52

how to or that we know how to regulate

13:54

our own emotions. And so if

13:56

that is not something that we have been taught,

13:59

then what kinds of things can we maybe

14:01

do as adults to even do a better

14:03

job of regulating our own emotions. Yeah,

14:06

that's great, great, great, great question. So I

14:08

think a lot of it goes back to that whole. The foundation

14:11

of the social, enjoyable, and physical is that

14:13

we do those things as well too, So we

14:15

do things that are engaging, that we

14:17

do things that are physical. So

14:19

so whether that's yoga, exercised,

14:22

joining a gym, going for a walk,

14:25

doing stretches at home, but really

14:28

uh, involving ourselves with taking care

14:30

of our body, because when our body is

14:32

stressed, we are going to be stressed and vice

14:34

versa. Our minds and our body are very much

14:37

connected. So if we don't take care of our mind

14:39

and how we think about things and we're overstressed,

14:42

we're gonna'll be more likely to get sick, to

14:44

have a lot of physical symptoms like stomach aches,

14:47

back aches, headaches, all of those

14:49

kinds of things. And so I think that's a

14:51

really really important part of it is is the exercise.

14:54

But another part of it too is being able

14:56

to practice mindfulness.

14:58

So that's really be present and

15:01

whatever you're doing, and mindfulness

15:03

is not some big task. It's

15:05

about being fully present with whatever

15:08

you're doing. So if you're at work, being present

15:10

at work rather than worrying about all the other

15:12

things in the world when you're with your kids,

15:15

being present with your kids. And

15:17

a lot of parents have a hard time with that. They

15:19

say they're playing with them, but they're not really playing

15:21

with them. So it's about, really, rather

15:23

than feeling guilty about not spending time

15:26

with your kids and it doesn't help to be a ton of time, is

15:28

that when you're with them, you're fully present

15:31

with them, engaging and activity they enjoy.

15:33

And that's a great way to take care of yourself too, so that

15:35

when you're with them, you know that you know what, even though I just spent

15:38

fickting this with my kids before they went to bed, I

15:41

was fully present with them. So I think a lot

15:43

of that is important to be Mindfulness is

15:45

making sure that you do a lot of exercising something

15:48

physical to engage with yourself, but also

15:50

practicing a lot of the mindfulness. So whatever

15:52

you're doing, rather than guilt tripping yourself

15:54

when you're doing it, is that you're fully present.

15:57

And I would imagine d call it that. This definitely

16:00

becomes difficult for any parents who

16:02

may be struggling with like a mental illness,

16:05

so something like depression or anxiety

16:07

or bipolar disorder where regulation

16:10

of emotions is already kind of inherent.

16:12

Um, then they would have more difficulty

16:15

in doing this, and then therefore I have

16:17

more difficulty in doing this with their kids.

16:20

Right, definitely if it's harder, because if

16:22

you are a parent that

16:24

is dealing with or suffering with depression,

16:27

then you don't want to spend time with anybody,

16:29

and many times they want to isolate or

16:31

it takes. One big thing about depression

16:34

is that it drains the life out of you,

16:36

so you don't even feel like you have energy to spend

16:38

time with your kids or really with yourself.

16:41

So I think that it's a big challenge, but

16:43

again it always goes back to that

16:46

you you're facing the very

16:49

thing that you avoid or that you have a hard

16:51

time doing, and that's what starts to build a

16:53

connection, because with depression

16:55

on what people often want to do is isolate

16:57

themselves and become very

17:00

a sedentary. They don't want to engage in other

17:02

activities. They're kind of staying at home, they're

17:04

not being physical, they're not really engaging at

17:06

anything that's that's going to be physically

17:09

engaging with anybody. Else, and those are

17:11

the very things that you should do. So

17:13

it's about pushing yourself and doing the things

17:15

that you know are going to be enjoyable and maybe

17:17

take very minimal effort at first,

17:20

and then working your way up. So if all you can

17:22

handle is ten minutes of walking, then

17:24

just do ten minutes of walking. If

17:26

all you can do is spending a few minutes with

17:29

your kids five seven minutes doing a card

17:31

game, then just do that. Kind

17:33

of meeting yourself where you're at, not beating

17:35

yourself up, but always goes back to that, because we do

17:37

a lot of beating ourselves up and then

17:39

just remaining present while you're doing it. And

17:42

so I think it's just about making those little small steps

17:45

so that you can get into that eventual big

17:47

goal. So, what are some difficulties

17:49

we might see dr lockhard If we are

17:51

not doing such a great job at either

17:54

regulating ourselves or cool regulating with

17:56

our children, how might we see this show up? You

17:58

mean, like kind of the behaviors that we might seeing ourselves

18:01

and all the kids. Okay, so

18:03

kids pick up a lot on their parents

18:06

emotions, like we talked about in the beginning, and

18:08

so if we are very stressed

18:11

and we are feeling overwhelmed. We might

18:13

see things like irritability

18:15

so we kind of fly up on the handle, maybe

18:17

excessive yelling. We might see

18:20

ourselves is feeling easily frustrated,

18:22

even over small things that maybe didn't

18:24

bother us before. We probably

18:26

are sleep will definitely be impacted,

18:28

where we have a hard time falling asleep or

18:30

staying asleep. And then even

18:33

after we think we've gotten a full night's rest, you

18:35

might see a lot of very extreme

18:37

fatigue and low energy throughout the day, where

18:39

you just when even have energy to get going. A

18:42

lot of times you'll see how it impacts

18:44

your other relationships, so you'll feel like

18:46

you don't want to connect with people, or where you do,

18:48

it's very tense and not

18:51

very productive interactions because you feel

18:53

like you're on edge all the time. And then

18:55

you can see very extreme things like seeing

18:57

lots of cases with people when they just not taking

18:59

care themselves, are not very regulated, they're

19:02

overly stressed. They may have

19:04

things like breakouts in their skin. They're here

19:06

might start stop growing, they might

19:08

get sick more often. They're more vulnerable

19:10

to allergies and coals and viral

19:12

infections. Those kinds of things because your body

19:15

is literally wearing down, so

19:17

you can see a lot of that stuff. I know

19:19

from personal experience when I was in a work situation

19:22

where there's a lot of work toxicity.

19:24

There's a lot of actually workplace believe

19:27

where I was a target, a lot of discrimination going on,

19:29

and I was trying to deal with it but not really

19:32

and I started getting nosebleeds and

19:35

never had a nosebleed in my life, so again, really

19:37

bad headaches, and I

19:39

would literally be playing with my son and

19:42

my nose just start bleading and

19:44

um. For what I saw

19:46

with my kids in those situations, and what parents

19:49

would see if they're not well regulated, is

19:51

you'll see more tantrum behaviors because

19:53

they're trying to figure out what's going on with their parents

19:55

and they're not quite sure how to deal with it. You

19:58

might see more refusal, so

20:00

they'll just flat out refuse to do things that you've

20:02

asked them to do because of the way that it's coming across

20:05

to them. That their sleep may

20:07

also be affected as well as they're eating

20:09

and their appetite. But mostly

20:12

what you see in kids a lot is a lot of those

20:14

external behaviors that we don't like those

20:16

tantrums, the defiance, the

20:19

refusal to do things, a lot of those disobedience,

20:21

all of those negative quote misbehaviors

20:24

that we see. You'll see them acting it out

20:26

because they're trying to reflect back what they're seeing their

20:28

parents. Mm hmm, okay,

20:30

yeah, And I know that that's a big one, right, Like when

20:33

either a toddler, a middle school

20:35

or a teenager, like when those tantrums

20:38

present, I think that that is a

20:40

very difficult situation to manage.

20:42

And I think so I would love to hear

20:45

any like tips or strategies you have for

20:47

this, because I think it is really hard

20:49

to catch yourself in the moment when your child

20:51

gets so activated that you then

20:54

have to do a really good job of kind of bringing yourself

20:56

back down so that you don't measge their energy,

20:58

right, because of course that does makes it

21:00

worse, right when you kind of know where they are.

21:03

So what kind of is if their strategies do you have

21:05

for somebody to try to do a better

21:07

job maybe of kind of catching themselves before they

21:09

match the tantrum energy. That's

21:11

a great question. I think one of the

21:13

biggest things and the hardest things for us to do

21:15

as parents, including myself, is

21:18

when your child is activated in

21:20

some way, we have to quickly

21:22

figure out. We kind of have to see things from

21:25

their perspective and and see

21:27

what seeing it from their point

21:29

of view so quickly looking at a

21:31

lot of the research talks about serving as a detective

21:34

in a sense, being able to mind read.

21:36

As my colleague doctor Lana had talked about in her

21:39

post recently, is what

21:41

in the world could be driving this behavior?

21:44

Why is this child responding

21:46

in this way? Are they hungry?

21:48

Are they tired? Do they need attention? That's

21:51

usually the biggest reasons why I kid might

21:53

be acting something hungry, tired, or needing attention.

21:55

So we want to quickly kind of assess that because

21:58

we pretty much know our kids for the most part, we know

22:00

why they're acting the way they do. Are they angry, they're blood

22:02

sugar low? Are they tired and not getting enough sleep?

22:05

Or do they just need my time? And

22:08

then we want to then make sure we don't

22:10

take the behavior personally. So

22:12

often we see our kids acting up and we instantly

22:14

judge ourselves. I hear this so much

22:16

when I do parent coaching with parents. If

22:18

they instantly think oh, if my teenager

22:21

is mouthing off, if my toddler is

22:23

having a tantrum, I must be a bad mom.

22:25

I'm like, okay, wait, how did you jump to that conclusion.

22:28

Well, if I was a good mom, they wouldn't behaving

22:31

this way. Okay, okay, No, that's

22:33

not true. All right. Kids

22:35

have free will, they have their own

22:37

personalities, they have their own hang ups,

22:40

but so do we. So why

22:43

in the world would we say this child

22:45

is acting this way because we're a bad

22:47

parent. Because on a side note,

22:49

I have worked with parents who are legit not

22:52

doing a good job, kids who are coming from

22:54

a piece of homes, parents who are

22:56

doing very horrible things to their kids,

22:59

and those were some of the best kids I ever met.

23:02

So I'm just like, Wow, they had a legit bad

23:04

parent, bad parenting situation

23:06

going on, and these kids were still thriving.

23:09

So there's not a one to one relationship

23:11

between good or bad parenting. However,

23:13

we want to label it and how our child acts.

23:15

So we have to stop ourselves from

23:18

like over personalizing our kids behaviors

23:21

and thinking they're acting this way because it is

23:23

about us. And

23:25

then the other part of it, too, is then looking at

23:27

making sure we reflect

23:30

how we're feeling and

23:32

why we're being triggered by this behavior.

23:35

I had a post about this on Instagram and it got a

23:37

lot of responses and questions. A lot of parents were

23:39

like, wow, I didn't really think about

23:41

it this way. Is that when my child is acting

23:44

this way? What instant thing am

23:46

I telling myself? What am I? Why am I being

23:48

triggered by this behavior? And

23:51

you know what story am I telling myself

23:53

behind this behavior? Okay, they're

23:55

acting this way? And I had a parent tell

23:57

me one time, oh, my three year old was having

23:59

a tantrum and treating his little sister

24:02

Bamian, and I was like, oh my gosh, what if he grows up

24:04

to be up with I'm like what,

24:06

what? How did you? How did you

24:08

jump to that conclusion? But all of a sudden,

24:10

he's a wife theater because he treated his child,

24:12

his sister at three. So I think that

24:14

we want to make sure we're not telling ourselves

24:16

some story based on our fear,

24:19

because if we start parenting out of fear,

24:21

that's going to be a bad formula. I'm

24:24

really glad you brought that up, doctor Loca, because

24:26

I think you know, especially just again, as

24:28

we kind of read more on social media, I

24:31

think as parents, you're already kind

24:33

of prone to just wanting to kind of have the best

24:35

outcome for your child, right like you want to

24:37

try to do a good job, you know. I mean, I think that

24:39

that is typically the goal for parents.

24:42

But I do think, like you said, that we can't

24:44

kind of go so far, and that then we

24:46

are parenting from a place maybe of anxiety

24:49

and fear as opposed to like actually

24:52

paying attention to the child that is unfolding

24:54

in front of our eyes exactly

24:56

exactly, and we can't pair it out of fear, and

24:58

we can't also aren't imaginary kids,

25:01

meaning don't parent a child you don't have.

25:04

Many times parents are parenting a child

25:06

that they wish they had, or a child

25:09

that they were or a

25:11

child they're afraid of having, and it's

25:13

like you're forgetting the kid that's actually in front

25:15

of you. So if you're always kind of

25:17

parenting with this kind of story

25:19

in your head, you're gonna kind

25:21

of get out of the whole mindful parenting

25:24

state and consciously parenting your kid,

25:26

and then you go into a whole different realm. So

25:28

then when you're disciplining them or punishing

25:31

in most of the case cases

25:33

is that you're punishing them based on

25:35

this fear of who they might be or

25:37

how they turned out to be, or who you were.

25:40

So I've spoken to parents of teenagers who

25:42

they were terrible, They've made terrible

25:44

decisions as a teenager, and they have

25:46

this great kid in front of them who's really conscientious

25:49

and respectful and obeys all the rules, but

25:51

yet they don't give them that freedom because

25:54

well, I know when I was a teenager

25:56

that I did is I'm like, yeah, but your kids not doing

25:58

that, So why are you parenting them based the

26:00

person you were? And

26:02

so we have to really be aware that

26:05

that's why all of this parenting stuff, even

26:07

though there's a whole bunch of techniques you can read about,

26:10

learn and do, it has to start

26:12

with the mindset change. Because if

26:14

your parenting mindset is based on one out

26:16

of fear, anxiety, worry,

26:18

and parenting these imaginary kids, you're

26:21

going to do parenting very ineffectively,

26:24

and you're going to not enjoy it. You've got to

26:26

actually hate it because you have all of

26:28

these things whirling swirling around in your head

26:31

that are not even really true, because

26:33

you have this story, you created, this dramatic,

26:36

epic story about your kid

26:38

that they're not even really doing

26:42

because your mind is not in the right place. So

26:44

how do you suggest we kind of get out of the doctor

26:46

lock car? Because, like we've already talked about, you know, parenting

26:49

doesn't come with a manual, and so I think for a lot

26:51

of us, we are parenting how we

26:53

were parented, right, because that's the only real

26:56

formula or model that you maybe have. So

26:58

how do you kind of suggest people get out

27:01

of kind of parenting the child they wish they

27:03

had, the child they were and actually

27:05

get connected to the child that

27:07

they actually have. That's a great question.

27:10

That's a hard thing to do. So

27:14

I think a big part of it is once you

27:16

ask yourself strategic questions, like we just talked

27:18

about, you just you really say, Okay, what

27:20

is going on with this child? What is the need? What

27:23

is the underlying need that needs

27:25

to be met? What are they communicating

27:27

through their behavior? Rather than saying this is a

27:29

bad kid, No, they're making these

27:31

choices because of a need, an unmet

27:33

need. So let's look at that first.

27:36

So once we can identify that, then we can say

27:38

Okay, how am I being triggered by

27:40

this behavior? What story am I telling myself

27:43

based on this behavior? And then you say,

27:45

okay, take a breath, respond

27:47

to him, and meet the need in the moment. So,

27:50

if your kid is having a tantrum because

27:52

you're starving something nasty that they don't like. They

27:54

think it's nasty, it's dinner time and you're

27:56

like, I've been looking all day. You know, I can't believe

27:58

I'm putting up with this. You never do this, and you start

28:00

yelling and complain about your kid when I was a kid, mo

28:02

mom and there, but we go, you start doing all this stuff. You gotta

28:05

stop and say, Okay, my

28:07

child tends to be a picky eater. I

28:10

know this. This is not new information. So

28:12

instead I say, okay, what is the underlying

28:14

need? My kid is tired, they're hungry,

28:16

and they're upset because they're not getting what they

28:19

want. So one of the best

28:21

ways to do this, for example, and the feeding issue,

28:23

is give them the food that I have prepared,

28:26

but also give them a preferred food. Doesn't

28:28

mean you make a whole different meal for them, no, but

28:31

you know that if this is going to be a battle because it's a new

28:33

situation for them, a new food item.

28:36

You basically give them something that's preferred,

28:38

But it goes back to meeting the need

28:40

something that's preferred and something that's non preferred.

28:43

To be able to expose yourself to new situations,

28:46

whether it's food or activities or anything

28:48

else, you have to slowly get a kid

28:50

to engage in that. Some

28:52

kids are more rigid and less flexible,

28:55

so we have to kind of meet them where they're at and slowly

28:57

get them there. So we have to kind

28:59

of go to saying okay, let me not get

29:01

into this stuff. Mindset about how my

29:03

mom or my dad, parents and me and I have

29:05

to see my child through a different lens. So

29:09

once we can do that, then we can kind of step back from

29:11

the situation and say, Okay, I know I'm taking this behavior

29:13

way too personally. I'm over personalizing

29:15

it and I'm reacting to it. Rather

29:18

we step back and say, okay, let me respond differently.

29:20

So I said, okay, sweetheart, you know it seems

29:22

like you're really upset today. What's going on? Or

29:24

if your child is having a tantrum, you go

29:26

over to them, help them co regulate, say

29:29

come on, come on with mama, Sit in my lap, tell me what's

29:31

going on. If they're way to speak, If not, you

29:33

help them just calm down. And

29:35

so you're basically always looking at ways rather

29:37

than looking at punishing and sending

29:39

the kid away and yelling at them, but you

29:41

look at what is the need that needs to

29:43

be met and how can I help them meet that

29:46

need? And it goes right full circle back to coregulation.

29:49

They have an unmet need. Kids misbehave

29:52

in our mind because there's an unmet

29:54

need. It always goes back to that. Every

29:57

time, whether they're kicking their sibling, they

29:59

hit you, they run out of the house, they

30:01

sneak out of the house, they whatever it is,

30:04

there's an unmet need that we need to

30:06

address, and we have to sometimes be very

30:08

kind of huge detectives in the process.

30:10

We always have to go back and say, what is that on the

30:12

need and how can I help them? At me by

30:15

collaboratively kind of being collaborative, asking

30:17

them, you know, it seems like you're having

30:19

a really hard time. How can I

30:21

help you with this situation. It

30:24

seems like you had a really rough day at school.

30:27

How can I help you with this? And being able

30:29

to collaborate on that rather than saying, well, what

30:31

you need to do is because that's not collaborative,

30:34

that's one sided, and they're going to reject it. M

30:36

m okay. So if we go back to your

30:38

food example, right, like I think a

30:41

normal reaction might be to like, well,

30:43

what you need to do is what I

30:45

have prepared, right,

30:48

And you're actually suggesting that you

30:50

can offer that, but also maybe offer

30:52

something that they enjoy as well. It's

30:55

exactly introducing them through the new exactly.

30:58

Because really, when it comes down to it, if

31:00

you're gonna get real technical with feeding and eating,

31:03

there are like twenty I think it's twenty

31:05

six steps to eating, which

31:08

means that it's not just about showing

31:10

the food in your mouth and eating there. It's about

31:12

being able to smell the food, cooking

31:14

about it being prepared, seeing it being

31:16

prepared, having it on the table, having it

31:19

next to your plate, having in your plate, having a

31:21

touch of food, having it in your mouth, chewing

31:23

it, swallowing it. Like, there's so many steps to

31:25

the eating. So when there's something

31:27

new being introduced to a kid, there's some foods

31:29

they're gonna like automatically, and there's

31:31

others that they need to be slowly introduced

31:34

to. And so we have to

31:36

then say, it looks like you're having a really rough

31:38

time with this food. Huh, what would

31:40

help you in terms of being able to eat this

31:42

food tonight? What would you prefer to be

31:44

with along with that food that you can try?

31:47

I know you don't like potatoes, but you sure like some French

31:49

fries. What about if we do a baked

31:51

potato and French fries. And

31:53

because it takes ten to fifteen introductions,

31:55

for example, for food before a child

31:58

can literally say they like a food or not. So

32:00

you can give them a food to three or four times and they's

32:02

still look like it, but it takes about

32:04

ten to fifteen times for your your palette,

32:06

your tongue to actually start to accept for food

32:08

and like it. So

32:12

see, I think that go ahead, go

32:14

ahead. Um. I was just thinking, you know,

32:16

this kind of goes back to your conversation

32:18

earlier about kind of making

32:20

sure that you have done your work

32:22

in terms of kind of taking care of yourself

32:24

there so that you have the bandwidth to be able

32:26

to address something like this, Because I'm just imagining

32:29

like this kind of conversation at like six o'clock

32:32

after you have been working all day, you

32:34

pick them up, you've been in traffic, you

32:36

know, you just want to Then you gotta do best

32:38

and homework and you know, so I'm thinking, like

32:41

what kind of time is this conversation

32:43

taking, right, But again, you

32:45

have to have done your self care

32:47

so that you have the bandwidth to be able to support

32:49

them in eating this broccotly exactly,

32:52

or at least being introduced to it right.

32:54

And you know, sometimes we don't have the time. I

32:56

mean you literally, if you're a single parent or you're

32:58

working parents outside the home, I

33:00

mean you sometimes don't have the time because

33:02

you're leaving work, picking up the kids, ticking a home, you have

33:04

to make dinner. I mean you literally don't have

33:06

the time. But that's where those reserves

33:09

are important, so that maybe you're not finding

33:11

the time in the middle of the day for at

33:13

the end of the day. But you did it on the weekend.

33:15

You did it earlier in the day. You took a lunch break

33:18

away from your desk, you called up a

33:20

friend, You called a friend on the way home, like

33:23

you find other ways. Maybe you don't go home

33:25

straight. You go to our restaurant let a restaurant

33:27

deal with your kids, you know, you

33:29

know, maybe it's going to a park,

33:32

changing up the routine on the way to home

33:34

so that you can find time to just decompress

33:36

while your kids play. Maybe

33:38

they're doing their homework at the library before you

33:41

get home. Like finding ways, little

33:43

little small ways to basically

33:46

find ways to kind of rejuvenate

33:48

and like you said, increase kind of the bandwidth

33:50

and your ability to be able to

33:52

handle that so that way, by the time

33:54

you're getting to the point of feeding them, you

33:56

can handle it because you've had that break you had

33:59

that you had that time to disconnect so that you can

34:01

reconnect again. And

34:04

maybe you don't introduce a new food

34:06

at six o'clock at the end of the day.

34:10

There are things that are more familiar, because

34:12

why why engage in the fight when you

34:14

know they can't stand liver and lime of beans

34:17

that at six o'clock. Maybe

34:19

that is like a weekend meal

34:22

that you try to do exactly to

34:24

expose them to. Right. So again it goes

34:26

back to like knowing your kid and knowing what kinds

34:28

of things they're likely to kind of resist you on

34:31

and working in your schedule so that

34:33

you make time to be able to handle those things

34:35

exactly exactly. And you know another

34:37

really practical too. Learned this with my kids last

34:40

school year. I'm going to do it again this year is

34:42

you have them involved in, for example, a menu

34:44

and meal planning. So at the beginning

34:46

of the week, on a Sunday, I tell my kids, Okay, we

34:49

have five days of this school coming up school

34:51

week, so what do you want to have off

34:53

for breakfast on Monday on Tuesday? Like

34:55

they literally look at them, We look at everything,

34:58

and we find them and we all agree to it. Okay,

35:00

how about lunch, So this is what the school

35:02

is serving on these days. You want to order

35:04

lunch or bring a hot bring a lunch from home.

35:06

You do that each day. Okay for dinner, what

35:09

do you want to do? So then we basically are doing it

35:11

and we create a menu. So it's collaborative.

35:14

And if there's a day like or last

35:17

year one day my son was like, oh we have lasagna

35:19

and today yucky. I was like, dude, you chose

35:21

it. It's like, oh, yeah, that's right. So

35:25

then it's it's it's less it's they're collaborative.

35:28

They are it's predictable. Kids like boundaries,

35:31

and they like they like some sense

35:33

of predictability, and so we need to

35:35

make it where we're not just popping up and say, oh,

35:37

let's just have something and something random.

35:40

If you can involve them in their in the meal

35:42

planning, then when you go grocery

35:44

shopping, when you're cooking, they know what to expect.

35:46

Whether they're saying, well, we don't have tonight and then you're just kind

35:49

of makeing stuff up. So

35:51

something else. You mentioned Dr Blackheart that I wanted

35:54

to go back to um An Adam and show.

35:56

I was gonna say briefly, but it may not be brief.

35:58

Probably you you seem to

36:00

make a distinction between discipline

36:02

and punishment, um and that

36:05

those are not the same things. So

36:07

can you talk to us about the difference

36:09

and why, um,

36:12

you know why one may be more preferred over

36:14

the other. Oh yeah, I can be very directive

36:16

about that. Punishment

36:20

is about the parents, about your

36:22

anger, you're being annoyed and

36:24

making sure the child feels as much

36:26

discomfort and pain as possible so they don't they don't

36:28

do it again. Discipline

36:31

is about shaping the child's behavior so

36:33

that you're actually teaching them something valuable

36:36

so that they can generalize it to other errors

36:38

of their life and eventually not

36:40

make that safe mistake again. Well, there

36:42

you go. So it sounds like we should stay

36:44

away from punishment all together because

36:46

punishment make us feel good

36:48

in the moment, but it really is not about

36:51

shaping the child's behavior, not at all, and

36:53

it doesn't help because if you tell a kid or you hit

36:55

your brother, go to your room, that's punishment because

36:58

well, what did you just teach them? Nothing

37:00

like? Okay, now they feel bad. Now they

37:03

carry in their room, and now you feel better because

37:05

they feel you know, they out by pain or whatever,

37:08

but they haven't learned anything about

37:10

them how to treat their brother. Instead,

37:13

discipline would involve saying, you

37:15

know what, hitting your brother is not appropriate. That is not

37:17

how we treat each other in this family. What do

37:19

we need to do to correct the situation? And they

37:21

hug them, they apologize whatever it is that

37:24

you collaboratively look at, and then

37:26

now they've learned to treat him differently.

37:28

He doesn't have to go on a time out, he doesn't even have to be separated

37:30

for the family. The lesson has been learned.

37:32

That's it. Mm hmm. Okay,

37:35

So do you think that things like time out

37:38

are ever appropriate? Oh? Definitely,

37:40

I think yeah, I definitely. I think that there's

37:42

some parenting strategies that say absolutely

37:44

no time out. I don't fully agree with that. I think

37:46

there can be times when time out could be good, but

37:49

it doesn't have to be shaped as this huge

37:51

punishment. Sometimes you do need

37:54

a time out. I need a time out. And there's times

37:56

we need to physically isolate or remove

37:58

yourself from the situation to almed down. That's

38:00

part of regulation that sometimes

38:02

a kid is so keyed up that they

38:05

need time away if you even call

38:07

it time in, and it doesn't

38:09

have to be where they're totally isolated from

38:12

everything, they don't have any toys, note books, on nothing.

38:14

Sometimes it's about saying, hey, you

38:16

know what, that was inappropriate, You need to go

38:18

ahead and spend some time in your room.

38:20

That way they can kind of take some time to unwind.

38:22

So if my son is really keyed up, really

38:25

hyper mouth and off saying things that

38:27

he shouldn't say, I'll say, you know what, sweetheart,

38:29

it seems like you need some time to yourself to kind of relax,

38:32

and then he'll go to his room and he's learned

38:34

that it's not a punishment, that it's a time

38:37

to basically decompress. And there's

38:39

times when I'll go back in his room and

38:41

he's asleep, okay, so

38:44

what he needed was rest he was tired,

38:46

or he'll be drawing, or he'll be reading, and

38:48

now he's calm, and then I can talk to him,

38:50

because if I start to then try to punish

38:53

him in the midst of his behavior, he's

38:55

not going to hear it and he's not going to learn anything. But

38:57

then I can say, hey, it sounds like you were

39:00

kind of amped up. Just now what was going on?

39:02

He's like, oh, you know, I was just feeling very tired,

39:04

or I was feeling very over well, or I need a break from

39:06

my sister. I said, okay, well

39:08

the next time you need a break, instead of saying

39:11

something new, then just take

39:13

some time and go to your room.

39:15

And so now the message can be heard.

39:18

That's discipline because now I'm shaping the behavior.

39:20

So now he's remembering that for the future

39:22

and he can use that in the future. And

39:25

it sounds like a key part of this is the conversation,

39:27

right, like the communication about it, whereas

39:30

with punishment a lot. It's just like,

39:32

oh, go to your room kind of thing,

39:34

and there's never any talking. It's just get

39:36

out of my face kind of thing, as opposed to

39:38

like right, as opposed to go and

39:40

take a break and then we can come back together and have

39:42

a conversation about what happened exactly.

39:45

Yeah, because punishment is very much you're as

39:47

au as a parent is talking and yelling and screaming

39:50

and nagging and whining, and you're doing all that stuff

39:52

and the kid is maybe receiving it, maybe

39:54

not um but it's not very

39:56

effective and that stuff sticks with

39:59

people. I just how to post a story

40:01

recently that I was talking about on Instagram about

40:03

how when I work with parents through

40:06

parent coaching, and these are parents of all

40:08

ages from the twenties to the fifties, the

40:10

thing that has stuck with them the most from when

40:13

they were kids is parents yelling

40:15

at them too much, like

40:17

like crying and emotional about it, and

40:20

really how it impacts their whole

40:23

life because they

40:25

felt they were overpunished or

40:27

nagged that too much or yell that too much.

40:30

The only thing that really sticks and feeling they haven't

40:32

learned anything from any of that so

40:35

we have to be very aware of how we speak to our

40:37

kids because when we're frustrated, we're

40:39

gonna say a lot of things that we're gonna

40:41

wish we did say, and it's that sticks with them

40:43

more than anything else. Yeah, yeah,

40:46

yeah, So what are some of your

40:48

favorite resources as in lack of for people

40:50

who wants to know more about like cool regulation

40:52

or you're the things you've shared about discipline.

40:55

What kinds of things might you suggest for your parents?

40:57

So I think that it's important to

41:00

make sure that we're feeding our minds with the right thing. So, like

41:02

you said, there's a lot of good in social

41:04

media in terms of resources, but there's also

41:06

something they're not very encouraging. So we want

41:08

to make sure that we're following people and pages

41:10

that can be uplifting for ourselves as

41:12

an individual as well as

41:15

for learning parenting techniques. So

41:17

there's a few and that I think are really great on

41:20

Instagram. One is working with parents

41:23

and that's Terry and Menory Gay out of Ohio.

41:25

She's a great parent coach. Cornerstone

41:27

Family Services is with Marveie Spence.

41:30

She is a great resource. She's in Canada.

41:33

We have Mercedes and video who's Shameproof

41:35

Parenting, and she's great. I really

41:38

like a lot of her resources as well too. Those

41:40

are a lot of the parenting stuff that I really like. Of course

41:42

my site, I do a lot of stuff at DTR in Louise

41:44

Lockhart with a lot of parenting encouragement

41:47

and techniques, but really looking

41:49

up specific individuals were either child psychologists

41:52

or parent coaches. I really looking

41:54

for things that are evidence based and things that are

41:56

based on things that are helpful to

41:59

you. Also, American Psychological

42:01

Association website, uh, they

42:03

have a resource called Imagination

42:06

Press, so it's like imagination without the eye,

42:08

and they have books for parents

42:11

that are based on research, but our children's

42:13

books, which I think is so amazing, and

42:16

they have things on anxiety and kids

42:18

and depression and bullying and divorce

42:20

and death and all kinds of really great resources.

42:23

So if you're looking for a book on a particular topic,

42:25

you can just go to the A P and website and go

42:27

Imagination Press and find all kinds of really

42:30

good resources that way. And

42:32

then I also have a couple of the books that

42:34

can be found on my website at a New Day Essay

42:37

dot com, and I have one

42:39

on for parents with children who

42:41

have a d h D and one on eliminating

42:44

tantrums and so those are

42:46

all based on kind of my personal experiences with

42:48

my own kids, because they give me lots of information

42:50

to help others as well as things I've

42:52

learned from parents as well as my own training and

42:54

schooling. So there are some really

42:57

good resources out there. We just have to make sure

42:59

we get the right stuff for us. So you've

43:01

already shared your website, but what are

43:04

any social media handles that you'd like to share

43:06

at? Dr dot and Louise

43:09

Blockhart Um, so that's

43:11

mine, and then my practice is a you

43:13

at a New Day psych Um,

43:16

So those are the two. And is that

43:18

on Twitter, Instagram and Facebook? Uh?

43:21

It's on Instagram and Facebook? Actually

43:24

okay, Instagram and Facebook, Instagram Facebook,

43:27

so um a New Day Pediatric

43:29

Psychology as the Facebook. And then on

43:31

Instagram it's at a New Days like got

43:34

it? Yeah? All right,

43:36

And of course all that information would be included in

43:38

the show notes. So anybody who wants to connect

43:41

with their website and find all the resources can

43:43

find it really easily. Yes, Well,

43:45

thank you so much for sharing your expertise with

43:47

us today. Black to blackhood. I really appreciate

43:49

it. Yes, and thank you so much for asking.

43:51

I really enjoyed talking to you, and I'm

43:53

hoping this can be helpful to parents because

43:56

parenting is tough and you're not alone in

43:58

this journey. There are lots of people and resources

44:00

that can help you out. Absolutely, thank

44:03

you. I'm

44:05

so grateful that Dr Lockhart was able to share

44:07

her expertise with us today. To

44:09

get more information about her and her practice,

44:12

are to check out the resources that she shared.

44:15

Be sure to visit the show notes at Therapy

44:17

for Black Girls dot com slash Session

44:20

one twenty, and please make

44:22

sure to share this episode with the parents in your

44:24

life so that they can hear all the valuable

44:26

information she shared as well. If

44:29

you're searching for a therapist in your area,

44:32

make sure that you check out our therapist directory

44:34

at Therapy for Black Girls dot com slash

44:37

directory. And if you want to

44:39

continue digging into this topic and

44:41

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44:43

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44:46

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45:12

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45:14

look forward to continuing this conversation

45:16

with you all real soon. Take

45:19

it care what