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0:38

after September 11th, we created a brand

0:40

new criminal justice system at Guantanamo Bay.

0:43

A prison and a court to deal with people

0:46

we suspected of being terrorists. To

0:48

do what we wanted to do at Guantanamo, we

0:50

pushed aside the old rules for detaining prisoners of

0:52

war so we could interrogate

0:54

people how we wanted and hold them

0:56

indefinitely. Without charging them with a crime.

1:00

Maybe you have an idea of what it's like to work at

1:02

Guantanamo Bay. Put that aside for a

1:04

second. You know, you're on 42

1:06

square miles. You've got like five great

1:08

beaches. I prided my ass off in

1:10

Gitmo. Everyone was getting drunk and getting

1:12

laid. And then I love Gitmo. Like

1:14

it's... It's La La

1:16

Land. We're like a Disneyland

1:18

employee. Hmm,

1:22

let's talk about that comparison there.

1:25

Oh no, that was a joke. Definitely

1:27

a joke. It's nothing like, nothing like

1:29

Disneyland. Our mission today is to

1:32

provide safe, humane, legal and transparent. The

1:34

U.S. government has its own story about what's

1:36

been happening inside Guantanamo all these years. Safe,

1:38

legal, transparent care. Transparent care, custody

1:40

and control. But we wanted

1:43

the people who served at Guantanamo and

1:45

survived Guantanamo to tell their stories. Now

1:47

that they've left Guantanamo, what would they say

1:49

now that they couldn't say then? A

1:52

lot, as it turns out. Chaos.

1:55

As simply put, it was chaotic. You think

1:57

your Allah is gonna help you? You think

1:59

you're corrupt? Iran is correct, you know, it's

2:01

a bunch of garbage, it's a bubble of rice,

2:03

what rice? Nobody knows

2:06

you exist here. He

2:08

wasn't tortured. He wasn't physically beaten. He

2:10

wasn't tortured. He was beaten in the

2:13

respect that we won, he lost. So

2:15

we are tortured by someone who doesn't

2:17

believe in torture. How can this

2:20

guy who believes in human rights do this to me?

2:23

This is something that they would never have made public,

2:25

but the day of the riot, morale

2:28

was never higher because we

2:31

got to kick their asses and get away with

2:33

it. And that's the God-owned strength.

2:36

From Serial Productions in The New York Times,

2:38

this is Serial Season 4, Guantanamo, hosted

2:41

by me, Sarah Koenig and Dana

2:43

Chivas. Listen on The New York

2:45

Times audio app or wherever you get your podcasts. Is

2:49

Guillem's even still open? Are you

2:51

an original prisoner, sir? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah,

2:54

yeah. Oh my God. A

2:59

quick warning, there are curse words that are unbeeped

3:01

in today's episode of the show. If

3:03

you prefer a beeped version, you can

3:06

find that at our website, thisamericanlife.org. Jordan

3:10

did not love the idea of coming into the

3:12

studio to tell this story. The very

3:14

first thing he said to me when he sat down was, I

3:17

am curious of

3:20

all the stories, like why this story? Because

3:22

it's not my particularly proudest

3:25

story. In fact, the only

3:27

reason that he agreed to the interview is that he's

3:29

good friends with the little brother of one of our

3:31

producers, Miki. They all grew up together. And

3:34

this story happened when he was going into his senior year

3:36

of high school in small town Utah. Jordan

3:38

and his buddies all lived together in

3:41

a house that summer, daring each other

3:43

into jackass style pranks and stunts. For

3:45

instance, there's a time they drove a car into an orchard. There's

3:48

the bike accident that gave Jordan

3:50

one huge swollen testicle. There's

3:53

the time they peed into a 7-up can. And

3:55

Miki's mom accidentally drank out of it. I'll tell

3:57

you, it was not my peeing in the 7-up

3:59

can. All right, and I'm actually

4:01

and I feel like to talk on public radio There's

4:03

a part of me that that would

4:05

rather tell America at

4:07

large about my swollen testicles story

4:12

But this is the one that this is the one that I

4:14

feel I tell the least The

4:17

story that he tells the least the one that he's about

4:19

to tell you right now It's

4:21

about how he did not become mr.

4:23

Jenola in the mr. Jenola contest

4:26

Jenola is a farming town population 1300

4:28

and the contest was a pageant for

4:31

guys There was no miss Jenola

4:33

pageant and it was a brand new tradition I

4:35

mean in its second year and it was

4:37

not a serious contest like the winner

4:40

of the first year for the talent competition Ate

4:42

a frozen burrito while it was still

4:44

frozen like that was his talent Jordan's

4:47

friend who was also named Jordan had

4:49

competed that first year wearing a blow-up

4:51

butterfly float during the swimsuit competition and

4:53

singing Pearl Jam to his dead frog

4:55

in the town section and He's

4:59

deciding that we're gonna enter the mr.

5:01

Jenola contest and volunteers me to be

5:03

the participant the single participant out of

5:06

our house And

5:08

just so you can picture this they did have an audience

5:10

of a couple hundred people Because it

5:12

was scheduled as part of the annual Jenola

5:14

days celebration Which has a rodeo

5:17

and a greased pig chase and a town dinner

5:19

and a parade and in the middle of a

5:21

public park they took a

5:24

bunch of wood apple bins and flipped them over

5:26

and put some plywood across it and made a

5:28

stage and Then

5:30

probably eight contestants all high

5:32

schoolers In

5:40

the video of this you can see two teenaged

5:42

MCs dressed in spoof award show wear

5:45

Girl in a checker jacket with comically

5:47

wide lapel and a boy in formal

5:49

tails and a vest no shirt at

5:52

all Bow tie and cowboy

5:54

hat Jordan and I went right to the

5:56

part where he comes on stage Rachel

6:00

Riley, son of Alan and

6:02

Chris Riley. We couldn't find anything special

6:04

about him. So they just

6:06

announced me in a small town. They tell

6:09

me who my parents are. And I come

6:11

up on the stage, and I'm wearing a

6:14

shirt with sleeves cut off. And I've got some

6:16

long hair and a hat. And

6:18

then I bring up a

6:21

wheelchair. Go back foot. Go

6:23

down your front wheel. Go back foot. Jordan

6:26

had used a wheelchair for a little while after an injury

6:28

once. Now he starts showing

6:30

off the tricks he learned then, popping

6:32

wheelies and spinning. I just was spinning

6:34

faster and faster. And so me and

6:36

the wheelchair all spun off to the

6:38

side with tumbling backwards. Woo!

6:42

Woo! Woo! Woo!

6:46

After a few more wheelies, Jordan gets up from the chair,

6:49

flexes his muscles. Heavy metal

6:51

music kicks in. And

6:55

his buddies carry an old door on stage,

6:57

this door that has a big pane of

6:59

glass in the top third. Jordan

7:01

grabs the mic to explain what's going to happen.

7:03

I'm pretty much just breaking a window. That's about

7:05

it. Now

7:08

I'm pumping myself up by

7:11

flexing and shaking my head. And I run

7:13

at it and give it a good punch

7:15

through the window. And

7:18

then I step back. And I looked at this window.

7:21

And there was a triangular piece

7:23

of glass right in the middle

7:25

of it. And I looked at that and I thought,

7:29

that's funny. I

7:31

don't remember that glass having blood on it before I

7:34

punched through it. And

7:36

I step back. And I'm just looking at

7:38

the audience. And I looked down right

7:41

at my forearm, like almost to my elbow.

7:44

And there was a hole. And

7:47

in that moment in time, it

7:49

was like when things

7:51

go in slow motion. I

7:54

remember severed muscle hanging

7:56

out. And

8:00

I'm looking at my own, my forearm,

8:02

and I think about this time that

8:04

we went hiking in the narrows of

8:07

Zions National Park. And

8:10

I was carrying a Rambo knife, and

8:12

I went to go catch a snake,

8:15

and I cut the side

8:17

of this snake in his, you

8:20

could see like some stuff coming out

8:22

this gash. Which

8:25

I immediately regretted, but

8:27

I stood there and I thought about that

8:29

snake as I looked at my forearm. And

8:34

then it seemed like, bam, fast motion happens.

8:36

And I turn around and blood is just

8:39

like, just splatting on

8:41

the floor. And

8:44

the MC steps in,

8:46

and I'm showing her my arm, and

8:48

I'm saying, call

8:50

an ambulance. And she says, is

8:52

that real? And

8:55

she thought it was a prank. She thought you

8:57

were just like, you have fake blood or something.

9:00

Oh, totally. Everybody did. And

9:02

one of my friends tears off his t-shirt,

9:06

and then tourniquets are around it. They're like, you

9:09

turn in white, you turn red, just lay him

9:11

down. Kids

9:14

start rushing the stage to see. We actually talked

9:16

to one of those kids who's grown now, and

9:18

he said that he figured it was fake blood

9:21

and a really cool prank. And then he got

9:23

near and saw that it was real. And the

9:25

next thing he knew, he was

9:27

waking up under a tree with an oxygen mask.

9:30

Jordan and his friends believe a few people paint it. Ladies

9:33

and gentlemen, we're getting this cleaned up as

9:35

soon as we're done. Ladies,

9:38

that's happened totally on accident. I didn't know

9:40

he was doing that. We probably wouldn't

9:42

have allowed it. So for the

9:45

judges' information, we're going to have

9:47

Mike Heil go before Clark Davis, because

9:50

Mike's singing and Clark's dancing, so

9:52

we can go to stage drive for a minute. Jordan

9:55

says that this girl MC later said

9:58

how mad she was that he ruined her life. her pageant.

10:01

But at this moment, she and the other

10:03

teenage MC had to ad lib their way

10:05

through this situation that I think even a

10:08

very experienced public speaker would find challenging. There's

10:10

a man on stage with them mopping up

10:12

blood, like with a mop, there's so much

10:14

blood and they have to fill time.

10:17

All right. Well, how's

10:19

the show so far? That

10:28

goes ever surprisingly well. And so to stop

10:30

for time, they run through what apparently is

10:32

the only standby material they have. The boy

10:34

on stage pulls out a fistful of pages.

10:37

All right. Here's something

10:40

a man named John put on his answering

10:42

machine. He says, hi, this

10:45

is John. If you're on the phone

10:47

company, I already spent the money. If

10:50

you are my parents, please send

10:52

money. If you are my friends, you owe

10:54

me money. If you are a female,

10:56

don't worry. I have plenty of money. Here's

10:58

another one. They never did

11:01

another Mr. Genoa contest.

11:11

This pretty much killed it off. The

11:14

ambulance came. Jordan didn't lose an arm. He's fine.

11:16

He's in his 30s now. And the phrase that

11:19

he uses for what he's become now is

11:21

contributing member of society. He's

11:23

settled down. He's a farmer, grows apples,

11:25

cherries, peaches, with a family, a young

11:28

daughter. He hasn't lived in Genoa since that

11:30

summer. But now and then, this just

11:32

happened as a farm stand a month ago. He

11:35

runs into people who say to him, aren't

11:37

you the guy who almost cut off his arm

11:39

and that pageant? That's what they know him for.

11:41

Well, in the town of Genoa, that's my

11:45

badge to wear. They know me

11:47

as the guy who did the

11:49

Mr. Genoa pageant. video.

12:01

Too soon. Still make some wins.

12:04

I asked him when he will be able to watch this

12:06

and not wince. And he

12:09

said he thinks it pretty much always

12:11

will be too soon for this one.

12:13

Yeah, like I said, this was not

12:15

the proudest story and just seeing us

12:18

at that time and those teenage...

12:22

It's just painful to

12:24

watch. I'm not a fan of that guy. But

12:29

today on our radio program, too soon. Sometimes

12:32

it will always be too soon. But sometimes

12:34

you can imagine a world where the thing that

12:36

you're remembering really will become much less of a

12:39

big deal and you'll be able to think about

12:41

it without cringing. If you're lucky,

12:43

maybe it'll even start to seem funny. We

12:45

have two stories for you today. In each

12:48

of them, there is a piece of video that

12:50

is capturing a moment and in each of them,

12:52

the past crashes against the present in this way

12:54

that is really kind of mesmerizing. WBEZ

12:57

Chicago, it's This American Life. I'm Ira

12:59

Glass. Stay with us. So

13:09

Jordan's story was about a prank gone

13:11

wrong. And you could say

13:13

this next story is like that too, except in this

13:15

next story, it is not just one prank. And

13:19

wrong does not capture

13:21

the sheer wrongness of

13:24

what you're about to hear. Nancy Updike

13:26

tells the story. Oh,

13:52

it's a celebrity hidden camera show. I've

13:54

done a bunch of prank stuff. So

13:56

I sent him like my prank reel.

13:58

I got got the job

14:00

and they said they couldn't disclose who the celebrity

14:02

was. Harmon rolled his eyes. Well

14:04

just people say that as like, oh

14:07

when we tell you who the celebrity is you're not

14:09

going to believe it. You're not going to believe it.

14:11

And your mind just goes, you know, you're genuinely.

14:14

Yeah, I'll probably believe it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's

14:16

like, is it like the other Hilton

14:18

sister? Or is it vanilla

14:20

ice? My bar was so

14:22

low to what it actually turned out

14:24

to be. Yeah. And

14:28

he goes, okay, are you ready? Are

14:30

you ready? Because it's OJ

14:33

Simpson. A prank show

14:36

with OJ Simpson. Okay, I'm just going to jump

14:38

in here for a second. Today's program

14:40

is an episode that we first broadcast back in 2015. And

14:43

we decided to rerun it today because of

14:45

course the news about OJ this week that

14:47

he died. And

14:49

when that happened at our show, we remembered

14:52

the story that Nancy did that very vividly

14:54

captured some things about him

14:56

and what he became, who he

14:58

was in his post acquittal life.

15:02

And we wanted to go back to it. So

15:04

okay, you have the setup. This white comedian,

15:07

Henry Leon, is asked to do pranks on

15:09

a show with this complicated, iconic black American

15:11

figure, OJ Simpson. Harmon

15:14

thought, that's a terrible idea for a

15:16

TV show. And I'm definitely

15:18

taking this job. So it was

15:20

a, the shooting was in

15:22

a week. So I drove down from

15:24

San Francisco to LA. I

15:27

get out of my car, I go to the production office.

15:29

And the first thing the producer says to me,

15:33

you know, Harmon, we really

15:35

can't mention the murders. Okay,

15:38

anyone over 30, please bear with me for a

15:41

minute. And for the under 30, here's

15:43

the OJ Simpson recap. Handsome,

15:45

charming, famous football player,

15:47

Heisman trophy winner whose nickname was

15:49

Juice after he retired

15:51

became even more famous doing commercials, Monday

15:54

night football, movies, TV shows, Saturday

15:56

Night Live. And here's the

15:58

part you probably do know even. you think you know

16:01

nothing. In 1994 he

16:03

was accused of killing his ex-wife

16:05

Nicole Simpson and another person,

16:07

Ron Golden. You know

16:09

that because he became a national

16:11

obsession. 95 million

16:14

people, give or take, watched

16:16

the live broadcast of his white

16:18

Bronco driving the LA freeways with

16:21

police cars chasing him. That

16:23

was more than the Super Bowl audience that year. 150 million

16:26

watched the verdict in the trial where he was

16:28

acquitted of the murders. This

16:31

prank show was being filmed about 10 years

16:33

after that. O.J. Simpson had

16:35

been mostly out of the public eye for

16:37

those years. Most Americans at that

16:39

time, 78 percent, believed

16:42

he either probably or definitely killed

16:44

his ex-wife and Ron Goldman. He

16:47

lost a civil suit that had found him liable for

16:49

the deaths. And so... This

16:52

would be the next step in

16:54

his career doing a zany, hidden

16:57

camera prank show entitled

16:59

Juiced. Incredibly,

17:03

this exists. It was

17:05

a one-time special on pay-per-view, just one episode,

17:08

about an hour long. And

17:10

I've got the DVD on my desk right now. Here's

17:13

the description on the cover. So,

17:15

witness O.J. Simpson performing hilarious

17:17

practical jokes and shocking hidden

17:20

camera stunts on unsuspecting real-life

17:22

people all across America. No

17:25

one is safe because the

17:27

juice is loose again.

17:31

My first question when I saw it was,

17:34

why does this exist?

17:36

Which is a dumb question. Reality

17:39

shows exist because they're cheap to make and

17:41

people watch them. Maybe

17:43

a better question is, why isn't

17:45

this hidden camera prank show from 2006 as

17:47

well-known, as scrutinized, as every

17:51

other part of O.J. Simpson's public life? I'm

17:54

here to say, I think it's worth a

17:56

look. Here's a show that was

17:58

never meant to be taken seriously. And

18:01

because of that, we get

18:03

these strange revealing glimpses of

18:05

OJ goofing around in front of

18:07

the camera chatting with strangers, riffing.

18:10

It's an hour with him unlike any hour

18:12

you've ever seen. I

18:15

also think it might be the

18:17

most mystifying celebrity comeback vehicle ever

18:19

made. The

18:29

show is a whole bunch of short prank

18:31

scenarios, one after another, in

18:33

different locations, fast food plays,

18:35

golf course, bingo parlor. Sometimes

18:38

OJ's in disguise, sometimes he's not.

18:41

The idea was OJ would be

18:43

someplace doing something, and

18:46

Harmon's job was to help

18:48

piss off the people around them. Or

18:50

in prank show lingo, try to elevate the

18:52

action. Exactly. For instance,

18:54

on a golf course. So the

18:57

gag was OJ will keep

18:59

golfing with his friends, and then I run

19:01

on the golf course with a video camera

19:03

pretending I'm paparazzi trying to film OJ. There

19:06

was no script, but also sometimes

19:09

not even a roadmap. Sometimes

19:11

the producer would jump into the scene

19:13

himself to elevate the action even more,

19:16

or mercifully to help

19:18

conclude it, like at the golf

19:20

course. That just ended with

19:22

me and the producer of juice rolling

19:24

around on the golf course wrestling, because

19:27

we didn't want to end it. Here's

19:33

the thing. Pranks might be a

19:35

misleadingly precise term for what happens

19:37

in the show. It's more like

19:40

low-level harassment of random civilians,

19:42

and also OJ Simpson

19:45

is here. Let me

19:47

walk you through one prank to show you how it goes.

19:50

This one starts, like all of them

19:52

do, with OJ Simpson, distressed as himself,

19:54

sitting in a chair, explaining the idea

19:56

for the upcoming scene. It's like setting up a

19:58

situation at an open house. I was

20:00

visiting my house looking for a house with

20:02

my little girlfriend. Then Harmon jumps in to

20:04

explain his role in the scene. I

20:07

played a disgruntled house owner

20:09

and then I played a party

20:11

guy. And then the prank starts. The scene

20:13

for this prank, like OJ said, isn't open house.

20:19

There's a realtor. She's in on the

20:21

prank. Hi, come on in. All

20:24

long blonde hair, strapless top. It's

20:26

all very Southern California. And

20:28

she's showing it to people, including a couple

20:30

named Kristi and OJ. Hi

20:33

OJ. Nice to meet you. Another

20:40

woman and a man who are also looking

20:42

at the house recognize OJ right away and

20:44

they shake his hand warmly. They're surprised that

20:46

he's there but not weirded out. And

20:48

then they all keep looking at the house. Then

20:51

the realtor, who again is part of the

20:53

prank, knocks over a vid. And

20:58

then he comes out and he blows some balloons one

21:00

of the people looking at the house. He broke it. Then

21:02

Harmon, playing the homeowner, comes out and gets angry. Why

21:06

are you taking me out and bricked? I'm sorry, scary. Then

21:09

there's an argument or an attempt at one, but a lot

21:11

of people are just more patient and reasonable

21:14

than you think they're going to be. So

21:16

it doesn't go anywhere. She broke

21:18

it accidentally and people had an accident. I

21:20

work with this realtor. She doesn't lie to me. So

21:23

it's a topless woman who's topless outside

21:26

jumping on a trampoline, which

21:29

the realtor works into the cell. And

21:34

which OJ jumps into comment on. Then

21:42

the topless woman enters the house, swishes

21:45

her way through everyone. There's

21:47

a quick cut to her running through the

21:49

house in slow motion. Then

21:52

another broken vase. Another

21:56

accusation. Another vase. Then

21:58

a guy who's in on the prank. throws up. It

22:01

just makes no sense to you. You're following

22:03

it perfectly. I've shown this

22:09

prank to a lot of people and every time

22:11

they look at me helplessly like what's

22:14

going on here? Who's even

22:16

getting pranked? There

22:18

are interesting moments in the scene when a

22:21

few people looking at the house notice OJ

22:23

and react to him. One couple is signing

22:25

in at the kitchen counter and the woman whispers

22:27

to the man. It's so quiet they had to

22:29

put subtitles on the screen. She whispers,

22:32

OJ Simpson just came in. Then

22:35

she says, did you hear me? OJ Simpson

22:37

is right behind you. The

22:39

guy with her glances over and then they

22:41

just keep looking around. Another

22:44

guy did a double take when he

22:46

saw OJ and then went back to

22:48

signing in. Like be cool, celebrity nearby.

22:51

Who is OJ Simpson? But

22:53

a lot of people seem oblivious. It's

22:55

just one more freaky open house with a

22:58

topless woman on a trampoline and

23:00

a lot of broken vases. Until

23:02

finally OJ Simpson with the catch

23:05

phrase. You've

23:07

been juiced.

23:10

I'm OJ

23:12

Simpson. It

23:14

just didn't have any payoff of anything. It was just

23:17

like all set on the whole premise of something

23:19

happens and OJ Simpson. They

23:22

didn't think it out further than

23:24

that and every gag was just

23:26

based on that premise. Right. Can you

23:28

believe this guy's here? Yeah. Yeah. For real. That guy.

23:31

For real. I know. But yet

23:33

in the producers mind they

23:35

were like, you know, oh this

23:37

is great. They kind of got into it. Yeah. Yeah.

23:39

Yeah. Other people on the set they thought, oh this is going

23:42

well. This is funny. Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

23:44

Yeah. I told Harmon that I

23:46

figured as I was watching the show that

23:48

the producers had just edited out any moments

23:50

where people got annoyed or uncomfortable when they

23:52

got juiced or pulled away

23:55

when OJ went to hug them or recoiled

23:57

and I was completely wrong about that. Harmon

24:00

told me that during the two weeks of filming, as

24:02

far as he could remember, no one

24:04

reacted that way. Other people on

24:07

set told me the same thing. There were no

24:09

moments like that to cut out. I

24:11

thought, oh man, there's

24:13

going to be like just outraged

24:15

people or people freaking out. And

24:18

that was actually the most mind-numbing

24:20

part about the two-week production, was

24:23

that people just were

24:25

actually thrilled when they find

24:27

out they'd been juiced by OJ. I

24:30

got juice! I've been juiced. I've

24:34

been juiced. You

24:38

know, like we were in Las Vegas filming

24:41

and people were just swarming off the streets

24:43

to get photos with OJ. Like

24:46

mothers and daughters requesting photos.

24:50

This kid, he started rapping for OJ

24:52

and then he high fives his friend and

24:54

he goes, I just rap for OJ, man.

24:57

That's as big as it gets. And it

24:59

was like, they would just be laughing

25:01

and saying, whoa, I hope he doesn't kill

25:03

anyone while we're here. Did anyone say anything

25:06

like that? I would

25:08

hear people off the side saying that, but they wouldn't say it angry.

25:11

They would say it like, oh, he's just funny

25:13

OJ. He just

25:15

like became like he's like this

25:18

funny cartoon character. So he's like,

25:20

let's Santa Claus a murder. Whatever

25:28

charisma was working in person doesn't come across

25:31

on the screen. In

25:33

fact, let me step briefly outside

25:35

Harmon's story of what it's like to make

25:37

juiced to talk more about what it's

25:39

like to watch juiced. I've shown

25:42

this now to so many people and the

25:44

sheer scope of the chaos in the show

25:46

is disorienting. Not just to me. Watching

25:48

the show feels like being winked at from across

25:50

the room by someone who may be flirting with

25:53

you or maybe messing with

25:55

you or may just have a tick. It's

25:57

not clear what to make of anything that's happening.

26:00

In. Between the prank since used. There's.

26:02

A scene changing package that includes

26:04

for some reason a gunshot sound

26:06

effect, Whatever. That

26:08

supposed to mean or not mean. And

26:11

twenty to thirty seconds, his music during

26:13

which Oj is surrounded by. Strippers.

26:16

Sometimes. He's rapping dressed as

26:18

a camp big fuzzy black hat

26:20

Zebra stifle tells. This

26:32

Pole Dancing. The give him

26:34

lap dances and again the scene

26:36

is in between nearly every prank

26:38

and he's surrounded by dancing women

26:41

who mostly have long blonde hair

26:43

and don't not resemble his dead

26:45

ex wife and he's mugging to

26:47

the camera with that expression like

26:49

how great is this. But

26:52

before you can decide what that means,

26:54

if anything besides just the demographics of

26:56

who is available to shoot the scene

26:58

is under the next puzzling moment. For

27:00

instance, in the open house break. At

27:02

one point Harmon playing the angry homeowner

27:05

whose house is being looked at First

27:07

the blame Oj for breaking one of

27:09

the bases. As as or

27:11

my baseline to to pay for my

27:13

base where I went around, I can't

27:15

blame for nothing else or in my

27:17

life of a blow when most. S.

27:21

When Lg says I've been blamed

27:24

for enough shit, he says genuinely

27:26

angry, Which means I think. He's.

27:28

Mad at being fake blamed for breaking

27:31

a vase in a prank. Because.

27:33

It reminds him that he was on trial for murder

27:35

ten years ago. As a

27:37

prank, were Oj pretends to be having an affair

27:39

with another man's wife. And the more

27:41

gets really angry as. A prank were

27:44

Oj place himself but a homeless version of

27:46

himself selling bags of oranges by the side

27:48

of the road. Is

27:53

an edgy comment on his phone status for

27:55

just another look with this liberties willing to

27:57

do in our reality show moment. time

28:00

to think, the show plows onward to

28:03

smaller moments of just raw unlikeableness.

28:07

In one prank, O.J. is dressed as an employee of

28:09

a fast food place and he's working the drive-through

28:11

window. A woman pulls up in

28:13

her 40s, maybe early 50s. Large

28:15

fries, large orange

28:18

juice. You sure you want those large fries?

28:20

You know what they're saying about fast food? Making you

28:22

fat. The

28:24

woman who's ordering is overweight. So

28:27

that's the joke. She's fat. She's

28:29

ordering fries. In

28:32

Juiced, O.J. has plunged himself into reality TV,

28:34

a genre that has no allegiance to the

28:36

idea that the star has to come out

28:38

looking good. But there's something

28:40

off about this show that goes beyond

28:42

that. For all

28:44

the frenzy on the screen, all the

28:47

invitations to gawk or be titillated or

28:49

outraged or just shake your head in

28:51

wonder, mostly it felt

28:55

empty. It's

28:57

tiring to watch. Strangely

29:00

tiring. When

29:03

I talked to Harmon, he said that during the filming,

29:06

there were moments unlike any other reality show

29:08

he'd worked on, unsurprisingly. For

29:12

starters, as far as he could tell, everyone had

29:14

been told the same thing he had, don't bring

29:16

up the murders or anything related to them. And

29:19

no one did, except O.J.

29:23

For one prank, O.J. was being made up

29:25

to look like an 81-year-old white man. The

29:27

makeup took three hours to apply. While

29:29

he's getting the makeup applied, he has

29:31

the TV turned to court TV. And

29:34

I was like, don't mention O.J., court TV. Don't

29:36

mention O.J. He's saying this to the TV. No,

29:38

no, I'm saying this to myself. Oh, court TV,

29:41

please don't mention O.J. because I don't know how

29:43

he would react. But he was actually just like,

29:45

he kind of wanted them to mention him. He's

29:47

like, how are they going to work me into

29:49

this? After

29:52

my trial, my lawyers watched my back,

29:54

you know. So he would, okay, so

29:56

it was sort of reminiscing

29:58

while the women are... To make up

30:01

on him he said he really lights are

30:03

watching for tv. Again

30:08

when he was getting the make

30:10

I applied as you would actually tell

30:12

us O J jokes so we had

30:14

the pleasure. Very like O J

30:16

jokes from O J himself to ah

30:19

it's no joke arm he actually

30:21

said this he goes ah who's the

30:23

first Jewish guy to get a Heisman

30:25

trophy? Ah Fred Goldman because he's

30:27

got mine because the the Goldman's that

30:30

a civil suit against and then took

30:32

his Rpf riding Heisman and ah

30:34

so you know everyone's a scanner on

30:36

the contrary to shifted. Around and

30:39

looked at their shoes and

30:41

contemplated career choices. Cinematographers

30:47

to Sleuth Mcnair tell me there was

30:49

a split in the crew. Some people

30:51

thought looked, this man was a great

30:53

athlete and a big star and he

30:55

was acquitted and that's that and that's

30:58

how I see this and other seaside.

31:00

Yeah, he was acquitted but I still

31:02

have other thoughts about what may have

31:04

happened. Double. Two schools of

31:06

thought. ah.are, tougher to sort of up

31:08

and will people argue about it? He

31:10

talked about it privately. Or. Treat

31:13

you. I'm. At the ever

31:15

the shoot. This was really upset.

31:18

Days decide to shoot interviews with every

31:20

one of the crew. Of

31:22

our expenses. And

31:24

then at the end of it for you though,

31:26

say guilty or not to his. Own

31:29

that the doctor and get it. At

31:32

not a that gonna do today. And

31:35

whatnot, My general myself. When

31:38

did you say. Guilty. And

31:41

is that we use are going in. I didn't know what

31:43

is it? As why did the job.

31:46

Your. I secretly want to know

31:48

site. Is. zero can

31:50

be given an opportunity to go

31:53

and shoot just arranged object and

31:55

i thought to the gate I

32:03

thought about that when I was involved, I thought

32:05

about that. People are going to

32:07

start this project and all of

32:09

a sudden you call me ten years later. Carmen

32:20

and Luke also said Las Vegas, where they

32:23

did the second week of shooting, is

32:25

where things really turned sour and

32:28

dark. They just seemed to

32:30

give up on ideas and OJ just got

32:32

less and less interested in it. He

32:35

didn't show up and then when he showed up,

32:37

he was just really drunk. OJ

32:39

was supposed to play a wacky motel clerk.

32:42

Look out, here comes wacky motel clerk

32:45

OJ. That's the premise of that

32:47

gag. But he was

32:49

just completely drunk and that was the first

32:51

time they just propped him up

32:54

in the corner on a stool and just let

32:56

him be sort of near

32:58

the pranks. Carmen said he,

33:00

Carmen, ended up playing the wacky motel clerk.

33:02

And sometimes he even had to be the

33:04

one to tell people, you've been juiced. Whatever

33:07

that means when the person doing it is

33:09

not OJ Simpson. After I

33:12

juiced a couple, OJ's in the corner

33:14

drunk and he would lean in to

33:16

the couple and go, Hey, I'm OJ.

33:22

Hey, do you recognize me? OJ

33:25

Simpson's lawyer who handles media requests

33:28

didn't respond to my emails and phone

33:30

calls about juiced. I

33:35

did reach the executive producer of Juiced,

33:37

Rick Maher. We talked

33:39

on the phone after months of

33:42

unanswered voicemails, texts and emails from

33:44

us, then out of the blue

33:46

a legal document from him, just a little heads

33:48

up, then a series of

33:50

very friendly but off the record conversations mixed

33:53

in with two taped interviews that he only

33:55

agreed to if he could approve every quote.

33:58

So here's what he approved. He

34:01

said I had it all wrong when

34:03

I called Juiced the worst celebrity comeback

34:05

vehicle ever made. It was

34:07

never meant to be a comeback vehicle for

34:10

OJ or try to turn him into a

34:12

mainstream star again. We

34:14

were tasked with creating a reality

34:16

show that cut through the clutter that

34:18

everybody would be talking about. Really

34:21

during an era when there was a

34:23

reality TV boom and there was a

34:25

lot of one-upsmanship in the marketplace.

34:28

He said the goal was just to let the

34:30

cameras run, whether OJ looks good or not. He

34:33

said the show being a pile on of

34:35

one thing after another that may or may

34:38

not make sense, the blonde strippers, the dead

34:40

end pranks, the weird little verite moments, that's

34:42

not a fumble. It's exactly what

34:44

they were going for. Their business model was

34:47

get people talking. So pile

34:49

it on. He said look, this

34:51

wasn't designed to win Emmys. It's

34:53

supposed to be a nonstop barrage of

34:55

craziness. You know, I'd be

34:57

the first to say it's not everybody's cup of

35:00

tea. Nielsen,

35:02

the ratings organization, told me the Juice

35:04

DVD sold fewer than 100 copies, one

35:08

of which I own. Rick

35:10

told me yeah, he buried the project on

35:12

purpose. We had the blinders

35:15

on to make one

35:17

crazy reality TV

35:20

show. After

35:22

we did it, and I think we

35:24

did that, after

35:27

we did it, there was

35:29

a part of me that said

35:31

what the hell did we

35:33

just do? Juiced

35:36

was coming out around the same time that

35:38

OJ released a book called If I Did

35:40

It, huge outcry. The

35:43

woman who was publishing the book lost her

35:45

job. A two-hour Fox special was canceled. And

35:49

we pulled it. We pulled it from

35:51

circulation. And

35:54

it's been gathering dust until now. Yeah,

35:56

you were surprised when I told you that I had

35:58

a copy. I

36:00

was. Rick

36:03

didn't want to say if juiced was

36:05

O.J.'s idea or not. When I

36:07

asked if O.J. was paid for it, he said, O.J.

36:09

did this because he wanted to do it. He

36:13

said his understanding is that O.J. did

36:15

sea juiced every frame and

36:18

approved it before it went out. When

36:21

I asked Rick if O.J. had ever said, look, this

36:23

is how I want to be portrayed in this show,

36:26

Rick said the answers to what O.J. wanted out

36:28

of juiced or why he did it in the

36:30

first place are locked in O.J.'s head. All

36:33

he, Rick, could say is how

36:35

unworried O.J. seemed to him while they

36:37

were filming. Like any way they put

36:39

the footage together would be great because

36:41

it was O.J. I think history

36:43

has shown that O.J.

36:46

Simpson is his own

36:48

boss and O.J.

36:50

is going to do what O.J.'s going to

36:52

do. O.J. Simpson is with us. I

36:55

don't know if I should say this. I got stopped. This

36:57

is O.J. on the Letterman Show in

37:00

1989, five years before Nicole Simpson and

37:03

Ron Goldman were

37:11

found murdered. And I'm just playing it because

37:14

listen to how big his world was back then,

37:17

how the audience loves everything he

37:19

says. Nobody else was on the road and

37:21

I was going, I think I got it up, oh,

37:23

you don't want to hear that. Yeah,

37:27

no, I got it up pretty fast. I got it up to about

37:29

170 miles an hour. Give

37:35

me your license. Give me your license right now.

37:40

Well, this car is really safer.

37:42

This is the road. It really

37:45

is safer over here. I

37:49

bet that to a very famous person,

37:52

losing the love of the general public feels the

37:54

way aging can feel. An

37:57

unfair changing of the rules. Too

37:59

big to accept. And

38:01

so maybe it's not that surprising that OJ

38:03

put himself in a prank show 10 years

38:05

after the trial, basically saying, remember

38:08

me? Still charming. Watching

38:12

Juiced sometimes felt like seeing a beautiful

38:14

older actress trying to reprieve the exact

38:16

role that had made her famous when

38:18

she was younger, as

38:20

though nothing has changed. Remember

38:30

earlier I talked about Juiced feeling

38:33

empty? How the show

38:35

keeps urging viewers to be scandalized and

38:37

outraged, but mostly I just felt tired

38:39

watching it? I

38:41

think I figured out why while

38:43

I was watching and rewatching this last scene I

38:45

want to play for you, the most stunning one

38:48

in Juiced. It starts

38:50

with OJ explaining the prank that's about to

38:52

happen, which takes place at a used car

38:54

lot. It actually sold the worst used

38:57

car ever. This was a Bronco with

38:59

a bullet hole in it and seats

39:01

with holes in it. Yes.

39:06

The Bronco. OJ is

39:08

posing as a used car salesman selling

39:11

a white Bronco, not the white Bronco, just

39:13

a white Bronco that for some reason has

39:15

a bullet hole inside. And

39:17

while they're filming, OJ signs his name right above

39:19

the bullet hole. Now this is

39:21

a Bronco signed by OJ Simpson. What

39:25

a pathetic bullet hole. The

39:28

scene is a mishmash of people who seem

39:30

to have no idea what's going on and

39:32

others who bring up random parts of the

39:35

Bronco story or the trial as they remember.

39:38

And OJ is just surfing all of it. $10,000

39:40

in there? Nope. Nope.

39:43

No, you were really caring now, you know? No, no, they

39:45

say that. I was caring about $3. Yeah,

39:48

that's why they never brought it up in

39:50

court. A woman shows up to look at

39:52

the Bronco so there's some flirting. Hey, you're

39:54

gorgeous, incidentally. Thank you. I appreciate

39:56

it. When you see a girl in a car like

39:59

this. You say, her man ain't doing nothing

40:01

for her. You know, you got a chance, right?

40:05

And after a little of this, a little of that, O.J.

40:07

seems to settle down into his sales pitch

40:10

for the Bronco. It was good for me. Got

40:14

me out of harm doing it. Just tell

40:16

me how I should do that. This is really the road

40:18

to the dead body. Well, hopefully

40:20

there's no bodies in this thing. I guarantee you,

40:22

the car has its capability. I mean, if you

40:24

ever get into some trouble, you got to get

40:26

away. It has its capability. My

40:30

car that I personally made famous, it

40:32

has its capabilities. That's the main thing.

40:35

I know it. I'm waiting for Al Collins.

40:38

And if we want to get away with these, you know it. It's

40:41

just like a lucky kid in a thing with the Bronco.

40:44

He blew us away. This is Luke,

40:46

the cinematographer, again. And Fyze it.

40:49

He keeps talking about how it

40:51

has great escapability. Uh-huh.

40:53

And he milked it, didn't he? Did he ad

40:55

lib that? Yes, he did. And

41:01

so, I mean, all

41:05

of the moments over the course of

41:07

the show in the different pranks

41:09

where he's referring

41:12

to other points in his life, to

41:14

the Hertz commercials and to his sports

41:17

career, but also to the trial and

41:19

to the murder, was

41:21

the idea, okay, you know, OJ, throw

41:23

in a reference here. Or

41:26

was he just supplying those

41:28

himself? He was all of his

41:30

own. He just was saying those

41:32

things. That's all him. Oh, my gosh, no. That's

41:35

all him. Let's set

41:37

aside the question of taste, because

41:39

the whole scene is freakish on its face. But

41:42

it's a lot more freakish when you set

41:44

it next to what actually happened in the

41:46

Bronco, the real Bronco. Escapability?

41:50

OJ Simpson didn't escape anything in the white

41:53

Bronco. The Bronco is what he stepped out

41:55

of into police custody, got him

41:57

out of harm's way while he was in the Bronco. Bronco,

42:00

he was suicidal. He had a gun to his

42:02

head. I want to play

42:04

you a recording. It's not so well known. It didn't

42:07

become public till a year and a half

42:09

after the trial. It's what O.J. Simpson was

42:11

saying while he was in the Bronco. It's

42:14

conversations between him and an

42:16

LAPD detective named Tom Lang who reached him

42:18

on his cell phone. O.J.

42:20

didn't know he was being recorded. He's not performing

42:22

for an audience. And a

42:25

warning, this is a suicidal person talking

42:27

at length about wanting to kill himself.

42:55

I love everybody. I try to show everybody my

42:57

whole life that I love everybody. I'm

43:04

the only one that deserves it. I'm to get hurt.

43:06

I'm to get hurt. I'm to get hurt. All

43:11

I did was love

43:13

Nicole. All I did was love her. I love

43:15

everybody. I try to show everybody my

43:20

whole life that I love everybody. We

43:22

know that and everybody loves you. Especially

43:24

your family, your mother, your kids. I'm

43:27

just going to leave. I'm just going to go with

43:29

Nicole. That's all I'm going to do. That's all I'm

43:31

going to do. Don't give in now. I'm

43:33

so tired.

43:37

I know. I know. I just want to be

43:39

with Nicole. This

43:42

had to have been one of the most terrifying, inconsolable

43:45

moments of O.J. Simpson's life. As

43:47

he makes clear with every word, every groan.

43:51

And watching Juiced, I kept looking for

43:54

not even any specific emotion, but just

43:57

any sign at all that this event had

43:59

happened. to him

44:01

that had affected him in some way.

44:05

I didn't see one. It was good for me. Got

44:10

me out of arms with a car

44:13

that I personally made famous. Boy,

44:15

Al Collins is driving this thing. And

44:18

if we wanted to get away, it was easy to

44:20

get away. The way he's talking about the Bronco, there's

44:22

no trace of what he experienced a

44:25

decade before inside the Bronco, inside

44:27

his own head. Instead,

44:29

he seems to be remembering it. He seems to

44:31

be seeing it the same way we

44:34

remember seeing it on TV, looking

44:36

at it from above on the highway as

44:39

it drove mile after mile. The

44:43

emptiness induced? It's

44:45

O.J. He's not

44:47

there. Nancy

44:58

Opteich, she's one of the producers of our show.

45:01

Again, today's episode was first broadcast almost 10 years

45:03

ago. Where are you running it

45:05

today because O.J. Simpson died of cancer earlier

45:07

this week. He was 76. Coming

45:11

up, a video that shows up

45:13

too soon, and then it is no longer

45:16

too soon. That's in a minute from

45:18

Chicago Public Radio. When our program

45:20

continues. This

45:23

podcast is supported by washington.org. Washington,

45:25

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45:28

Just ask Dayo, who shared her experiences

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45:35

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45:39

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45:41

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45:43

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46:26

That's tpl.org/ Earth

46:29

Month. Hi, I'm Tracy

46:31

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46:33

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46:35

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46:37

our show, The Headlines, comes in. It

46:39

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46:56

Headlines at nytimes.com slash audio app.

47:01

This is American Life from Ira Glass. Each of you is

47:03

going to program, of course, which is a theme, bring you

47:05

different kinds of stories on that theme. Today's show, too

47:08

soon. So my dad died

47:10

about 10 years ago, very

47:13

suddenly, and it was

47:15

very terrible and shocking.

47:18

Back when we first made this episode, we were talking

47:20

about today's program around the office, and one of

47:22

our producers, Zoe Chase, remembered this story. It

47:25

happened when she was right out of college and

47:27

she got the call. Her dad, out of the

47:29

blue, had a heart attack and died. And her

47:31

best friend, Rosa, came and got Zoe from Ohio,

47:33

which is where she was living and brought her

47:35

back to New York City where her family was.

47:37

And it was awful. You know, it was just

47:40

grim darkness. But

47:43

then somehow, like the next

47:45

day, Rosa was

47:47

just pulling stuff out of the

47:49

fridge to feed me with. And

47:52

she pulls out

47:54

the butter dish, you know, like a

47:57

glass butter dish, and it just shatters all over

47:59

the floor. You mean she drops it? She

48:01

drops it. And I just look at her

48:03

and I'm like, that was my dad. It's

48:08

like horrified and my sister

48:10

starts laughing and I started laughing

48:12

because it's not my dad's, it's

48:14

just like a crappy butter dish from

48:16

Ikea. And it

48:18

was the first, I think it was

48:20

the first joke. I remember it as

48:23

the first joke of

48:25

when my dad died. How many days? It

48:28

was like a day. It was like the

48:30

day after. So the whole idea of the

48:33

old saying like comedy equals tragedy plus time,

48:36

like there was no time at all. Not

48:38

at all. Yeah. There's

48:43

a study where scientists actually tried to

48:45

quantify exactly how much time has to

48:48

pass after tragedy or comedy

48:50

kicks in. And although nothing is more

48:52

tedious than people sitting around theorizing about

48:54

what is funny, it's interesting

48:56

to see somebody get like super brass tacks

48:58

about this and try to actually define this

49:00

thing that our whole program is about today.

49:03

These researchers had over a thousand

49:05

people rate how funny some joke

49:07

tweets about Hurricane Sandy were at

49:09

different points in time. And

49:12

before the hurricane hit land, people thought the

49:14

tweets were funny. And then

49:16

unsurprisingly, while the hurricane was destroying homes

49:18

and knocking up power and killing people

49:20

and in the immediate aftermath of all that,

49:22

the tweets did not seem funny. And

49:25

in fact, seemed kind of offensive. And

49:27

then it took they have a number. It took

49:29

15 days, 15 days

49:33

after the hurricane struck. The

49:35

tweet started seemed funny again because

49:38

the researchers, Peter McGraw, Lawrence Williams and

49:40

Caleb Warren theorize for something like this

49:42

to be funny, it has to seem

49:44

threatening, but not too

49:47

threatening. Once it stops being

49:49

threatening, it stops being funny. And

49:51

in fact, there comes a point after the storm struck. It

49:54

is 36 days after the storm struck. The

49:56

people start finding the tweets less and less funny.

50:00

And to get back to Zoe, Zoe says, yeah, it

50:02

was only a day after her dad's death that she

50:04

joked about the butter dish, but the

50:06

worst had already happened. The

50:08

threat had passed. If her

50:10

dad had been alive and in imminent danger of

50:12

dying, she said she couldn't have made the joke, wouldn't

50:15

have had the impulse to. Because that just

50:17

sounds so scary that that'd

50:20

be all you were doing, is

50:22

being afraid. But

50:25

now, or right

50:27

at that moment that I was in. Immediately

50:30

after he died. Immediately after. I

50:33

mean, nobody had been themselves or said

50:35

anything funny or laughed about anything. It

50:38

was super helpful. Helpful

50:40

how? Because

50:42

I felt like myself and

50:45

I felt like my family. You know, it

50:47

was, we're not such a sincere group of

50:49

people. And so to have

50:51

that level of sincere emotion was

50:54

pretty uncomfortable. Wow.

51:01

It's gotten so real. Which

51:11

brings us to this next story of a

51:13

family and something being too soon and then

51:15

knowing the right moment for the something to

51:17

happen. We've arrived at Act 2 of our

51:20

program, Act 2, Pink Slip.

51:23

When Amy Silverman was in her 20s, she had this

51:25

friend who would go to LA sometimes and bring back

51:27

these videos. And Amy and

51:29

her friends would show the videos at parties

51:31

on VHS. This is way back in the

51:33

prehistoric days before YouTube. It's the

51:35

90s. But

51:38

in Phoenix. So it's probably

51:40

like the 80s somewhere else. And

51:42

one of the films the guy would bring around to parties

51:45

was called Pink Slip. Amy says she

51:47

easily saw it a half dozen times. Maybe it was more like

51:49

a dozen. They always killed. Everybody

51:51

liked it. It was an instructional

51:53

video. And its lead character was this

51:55

girl named Jill who was just reaching

51:57

puberty. figure

52:00

out when exactly it was made, but probably like

52:02

late 60s, early 70s, kind of groovy

52:04

living room and they

52:06

have very outdated hair,

52:09

very, very obviously staged. And

52:11

that was what was so funny about

52:13

it, really. The film is about menstruation.

52:16

And so if you're listening with a little kid right now

52:18

and you do not want to get into that subject with

52:20

them right this second, take that into

52:22

advisement. Okay, here's a clip. Susie,

52:25

do you have periods? Do I

52:27

have periods? Jill,

52:29

all women have periods about every four weeks

52:31

for three or four days. When

52:33

I'm on my period, blood from inside

52:35

of my body comes outside from an opening

52:38

between my legs. Susie, what

52:40

about my teacher? Does Miss Jones

52:42

have periods? Yes, Jill, your

52:44

teacher, Mrs. Jones, does have periods.

52:47

All women have periods about every four weeks for

52:49

three or four days. Hi, girls.

52:51

Hi, dad. What have you girls

52:54

been talking about? About periods,

52:56

daddy. Dad, does

52:58

that girl have periods? Yes,

53:01

Jill, all women have periods about every

53:03

four weeks. So it's very repetitive. And

53:06

we would watch it and shriek with laughter. That's

53:09

right, honey. Not proud of

53:11

it, but that is what happened. A lot. Blood

53:14

from inside a woman's body comes

53:16

outside from an opening between her

53:18

legs about every four weeks. But

53:20

the blood, won't it get on my clothes? No,

53:23

it won't, because you use a sanitary

53:25

pad. Sanitary pad. Amy

53:27

says it did register with her that there

53:29

was something up with that girl, Jill, something

53:31

different. But she never really gave it much

53:34

thought. And she and her friends would

53:36

drink and they would watch this kitschiaod film. And

53:38

years later, when Amy was 37, she had

53:41

her second child, a daughter, Sophie.

53:44

And Sophie had Down syndrome. So

53:46

when Sophie was like two weeks old, all of

53:48

a sudden I was driving down the street today

53:51

and I went, oh my God, pink flip. And

53:53

Suddenly it all came together for me. And I Realized

53:55

that that video had been about a girl with Down

53:58

syndrome. And Now I have a baby. The

54:00

baby with down syndrome and some. I was

54:02

going have to figure out how to teach

54:04

her about puberty and then as quickly as

54:07

that sought came into my head, I shoved

54:09

it out and replaced it with you know,

54:11

like, utterly need. For diapers, have some. Years

54:20

pass By the time said he was

54:23

ten. she had seen her older sister

54:25

become an adolescent and says he was

54:27

obsessed. She had abroad.

54:29

She had a deodorant collection.

54:32

Now the she needed abroad urine just yet

54:34

a me says. There's one

54:36

false alarm word seem like she was growing hair

54:38

in new places. And she started jumping

54:40

up and down. She ran

54:42

down the hallway naked into her sister's

54:44

room to show her. She grabbed my

54:46

cell phone and called one of my

54:48

friends and she raised around the kitchen

54:50

table as fast as she could. again

54:53

and again. You know, talking about her

54:55

hair with my mom, with my friend,

54:57

with my husband? O Sea Lo And

54:59

to hit puberty, She really wants to

55:01

hit puberty. Amy and husband decided to

55:03

roll Sophie in a Class by Puberty a

55:05

one time seminar for kids with down

55:07

syndrome to answer the questions and teach

55:09

them what they need to know about

55:11

was going to happen to them. Or

55:13

by this woman is an expert on all that. And.

55:16

Was okay. it was fine. The. Didn't his

55:18

job for sophie? Is Sophie was yeah. she

55:20

was about to turn twelve and she was still

55:22

asking questions. Though the questions are asking.

55:25

She. Wanted to know the basics

55:27

about her period, about their the

55:30

blood would come out. What?

55:32

She would use. Just.

55:34

Basics. And

55:37

I saw it, you know, and

55:39

neither should sort takes. His

55:42

honestly something she had never considered before

55:44

to never taken that video seriously. Now

55:48

we made fun of it. So.

55:51

So we got. I got the video up for

55:54

her for her to see. Now I know

55:56

you recorded a conversation with the before you started a video.

55:58

them is play. That. P. City. Now.

56:01

Remember what we're talking about today. Few.

56:04

S. Caps. And.

56:07

Now do you feel like you already

56:09

know everything about them? Yes cause he

56:11

has. Since last year I address a

56:14

polygamous and Amazon. The Vote goes along

56:16

the corner. Saying last year that

56:18

it puberty lesson and they sing song just

56:20

around the corner that as he knows everything.

56:23

And you put a pink slip on a phone. Because of

56:25

course, It's on youtube. And.

56:28

Unlike me says he loves to watch videos

56:30

on youtube So she grabbed it and watched

56:32

it. Allows us to somebody else.

56:34

So let's watch the video on. And

56:41

recording that Amy made of Sophie watching things

56:43

that there is a moment where they both

56:46

laugh. It's the most at the moment in

56:48

the film and it really is kind of

56:50

soccer again. If you are listening right now

56:52

with a small child know that I am

56:54

about to say something very freeing about menstruation.

56:56

said just decide if you into the busing

56:58

the movie that a me and says he

57:00

laugh at and video is when the Amy

57:02

remembers very well from back when she's to

57:04

watch the video with your friends at parties.

57:06

it's cause the big moment in the film

57:08

While this was like the grabber at at

57:10

the parties. Were and until would say

57:12

the cz you know I don't understand

57:14

or something and says he would say

57:16

will come into the bathroom with media

57:18

I have my period right now and

57:20

then sit down and pull on her

57:22

pants and so her bloody pad. This

57:26

is a huge sanitary pads. Says

57:28

blade or. See.

57:32

You mean the blood coming for him

57:34

said you're burning Man, That's right. floods.

57:36

It's coming from inside my body, opening

57:39

between my legs. For the record, I

57:41

laughed forever. Just

57:45

a minute later after the sister shows,

57:47

the girl on the film had a

57:49

throw away a used pad start using

57:51

a new pads said he watches intently

57:53

and quite a says i've done it

57:56

long. Like of the

57:58

party has a nice to go to when the scene. The

58:00

biggest last in the most comments it

58:02

was just to Santa Fe me to

58:04

get what the video will be good

58:06

for for girl like Sophie. Or

58:09

wasn't like watching her watch

58:11

this video that you knew

58:13

so well. Completely surreal. Completely

58:17

surreal. I mean, Embarrassing.

58:23

Why? Was it of are saying. Oh

58:26

I was embarrassed because I used to make fun of it.

58:29

But Sophie didn't know that. Now,

58:34

but. I

58:37

don't like that. Really honored her. Yeah

58:39

now my my prior behavior. Oh

58:41

I see what you're saying to you are

58:43

you've got this little girl he love and

58:46

now with her present your return to the

58:48

scene of the crime. Yeah, I saw

58:50

a morse. I felt more ashamed and embarrassed.

58:53

But. I had to stop and think, ah,

58:55

maybe the person who made that video really

58:58

knew what they were doing. Year.

59:00

That's the thing I was wondering is to give you

59:02

respect to the video. It.

59:05

Dad. Was

59:07

really weird. And

59:09

so all the coin, a repetition and whole

59:11

thing that's totally right for her. That's

59:13

what she needs. It just has

59:16

to be slowed down. The learning has to

59:18

be slowed down. To

59:20

like a certain amount of being a parent

59:22

is realizing what an ass you were before

59:25

you were apparent. Absolutely.

59:33

Mean, I was the one who always

59:35

tell people this. I was the one

59:37

who would switch lines at Safeway is

59:39

there was a parts person with a

59:42

developmental disability bagging. Groceries. Because

59:45

I'd it is in line deal. It

59:49

would have taken what fifteen seconds to

59:51

nod and smile and be a human

59:53

being about it. Not

59:56

made. him

59:58

he thought about showing pink slip Sophie again.

1:00:00

It's been a few months and Sophie still

1:00:02

has not gotten her period. Though

1:00:05

Amy's not sure what Sophie would think of the

1:00:07

video today because Sophie's able to tell that the

1:00:09

girl in the video has Down syndrome and Sophie

1:00:12

is going through a thing right now where she

1:00:14

does not like to identify herself that way. Not

1:00:17

to go all, not to get all serious on

1:00:19

you, but Sophie is starting to realize that

1:00:24

she's not gonna have, she's not gonna ever have

1:00:26

some of the things that her sister has. So

1:00:29

recently she asked me am I gonna have Down

1:00:32

syndrome when I grow up and

1:00:34

I said you are and she said I don't want to, I

1:00:36

don't want to have it. Yeah.

1:00:41

So what does her sister get that she doesn't get

1:00:43

that she sees right now? She

1:00:47

gets to go to a fancy art school

1:00:49

that won't take Sophie. She

1:00:52

gets to dance on point in ballet,

1:00:55

which Sophie doesn't get to do because her feet aren't

1:00:57

strong enough. She

1:01:00

gets sleepover invitations Sophie doesn't get and

1:01:05

she gets that life in front of her. You

1:01:07

know she, Sophie told me the other day that

1:01:10

she doesn't want to have an

1:01:12

aide at school anymore because she wants to practice

1:01:14

walking to class by herself for college. What

1:01:17

Sophie will get that her sister got, and she'll

1:01:19

probably get it pretty soon, is her period. And

1:01:23

Amy might show her pink slip again. Amy

1:01:26

tried once to show the video to Sophie's older

1:01:28

sister and the older sister got to the part

1:01:30

with the bloody pad and then tossed the phone

1:01:32

back to Amy. But

1:01:35

Sophie's different. And she

1:01:37

liked the video. The

1:02:05

people who put together today's show include

1:02:07

Elise Bergerson, Zoe Chase, Sean Cole, Emily

1:02:09

Condon, Stephanie Fu, Kimberly Henderson, Hana Joffrey-Waltz,

1:02:11

Seth Lynn, Jonathan McKeever, Brian Reed, Robin

1:02:13

Sami, Nolissoship, and Nancy Updike. Our editor

1:02:15

for today's show is Joel Lovell. Other

1:02:18

editing help today from Neil Drumming, Julie

1:02:20

Snyder. Production help from Lily Sullivan. And

1:02:22

on the Baker Scout Stories for our

1:02:24

show, fact checking help today from Christoph

1:02:26

Schatala and Michelle Harris. And an

1:02:28

additional help today from Damian Gray from Rob Geddes. Additional

1:02:31

help on today's rerun from April Cammaday, Katherine

1:02:33

Raymondo, Safiya Riddle, and Matt Tierney. Special

1:02:35

thanks today to Rich Jozowiak, Kid Fury, Nick

1:02:37

Kroll, Peter McGraw, Betsy Kagan, and Jude Joffy-Bloch.

1:02:40

Amy Silverman came out with a book about

1:02:42

her daughter Sophie after this show was her

1:02:44

broadcast. It's called My Heart, can't even

1:02:46

believe it. Our website,

1:02:48

thisamericanlife.org. We can listen

1:02:50

to our archive of over 800 episodes for absolutely

1:02:53

free. This American Life is

1:02:55

delivered to public radio stations by PRX,

1:02:57

the Public Radio Exchange. Thanks

1:02:59

as always to our program's co-founder, Mr.

1:03:01

Tori Malatia. You know, when

1:03:03

here's the credits to our program begin, every

1:03:06

single program, the only thing that

1:03:08

goes through his mind is, how are they

1:03:10

going to work me into this? I'm going to

1:03:12

have a glass. Back next week, more stories

1:03:14

of this American life. Thank

1:03:24

you. Kid Fury, Nick Kroll, and Matt Tierney. Thank

1:03:26

you.