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why is my motivation is supporting

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women by poc and lgbtqia

0:06

plus communities i started my

0:08

film production company out of place of

0:10

for a very long time, i didn't i feel

0:12

safe in this industry so instead

0:14

of waiting for someone else, i created

0:17

the change myself, us banks each

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step on the journey thrive to learn

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how the the brain can help you celebrate wins

0:24

both big and small visit www

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a quick warning there are curse words that

0:34

are unbeaten, today's episode of the show

0:36

you prefer a beep version, you can find

0:39

that at our this american american life dot org

0:42

some wbez chicago,

0:44

it's

0:44

this life

0:46

the money sitting in for ira glass the

0:49

, know what the square footage of you have

0:51

your home is is god

0:53

fair ah i

0:56

could you ask me that you monster i'm sorry

0:59

nothing

0:59

no money bought a house or the saving

1:02

to ten years and she

1:04

has a lot of complicated feelings about that house

1:07

for , majority of her life she thought as a self

1:09

as a person who doesn't have money money

1:12

what makes her her no matter

1:14

the actual the it's been

1:16

that way since she was a kid i went

1:18

to school and just up the street with another

1:20

school with another private school that with

1:22

cool

1:22

bancroft m m we

1:24

are you

1:24

call it when growth because i think there was this

1:27

this understanding that lays rich kids

1:30

i'm a went like us because

1:33

i think even when you're like eleven years old

1:35

you know that the future ahead of them is

1:37

just smoother it just has less

1:39

friction in it and i think we resent them even

1:42

then flat on fact we

1:44

went for all girls school and they called us

1:46

called virgin megastore

1:50

the virgin mega

1:54

yeah , accurate children

1:56

with a horrible and

1:59

i know

2:01

mona know the price of everything in her

2:03

house she , forget forget

2:06

rugs from ikea the lunchables

2:08

on sale but still thinks was too expensive

2:12

being able to afford being able payment and now

2:14

a mortgage it just doesn't match

2:16

homeowner has always seen herself or

2:18

how she wants other people to see her the

2:22

most of the humid then she has that a casual

2:24

bachelorette party up a house for her childhood

2:27

friend the bridal party were

2:29

also friends she hadn't seen in ages mona

2:32

was getting a little uncomfortable like

2:34

i'm i'm really obsessed with them cleanliness

2:36

nominees i'm like

2:38

minute deliberately didn't

2:40

hi do you clean

2:43

that a few days before they kind which is

2:45

so we'd discuss

2:47

i didn't want to look to noise

2:50

the you are trying to look kind of like shabby chic

2:53

nor shabby

2:55

chic just business savvy

2:58

they didn't clean or does the mirrors didn't

3:00

ship the cushions didn't even vacuum

3:03

for a couple of days beforehand

3:05

but despite that to the

3:07

horror the first friends who arrived

3:09

like to be funny

3:11

little that was done in my kitchen where she was

3:13

like oh my god it's to think big they

3:16

asked him if him could have could have

3:18

of the house and i kind of was just like

3:20

yeah and then didn't do anything

3:21

wow it but in the third time they all say know all

3:23

of my invasion tactics at this point we to fight

3:26

mona give us the fucking to m

3:29

the when i didn't and m

3:32

i didn't know they were just like it's nice ones like thanks

3:35

and and it shouldn't be is

3:38

, be a big deal but

3:40

it

3:41

you because i think it said

3:46

think think i

3:47

i guess

3:50

these friends or knew how she'd grown up the

3:53

parents bought their houses an older lady and never

3:55

updated is so the carpets

3:57

will old the wallpaper was peeling

4:00

later there was a bit too much furniture

4:03

friends would come over nine have felt super

4:05

aware of it and embarrassed the

4:08

with the identical the nation's what she was

4:10

feeling was feeling new house now

4:12

the whole door she could feel

4:14

them looking which is the point

4:16

of a hostile when when i got upstairs

4:19

in her bedroom

4:20

the closet door was ajar god

4:22

, so embarrassing say these things out loud

4:25

in my closet was a t

4:27

bank air containing air

4:30

gucci handbag now i

4:32

did not purchase said gucci humbug

4:34

it was given to me which is also incredibly

4:36

bizarre it was bizarre what gift and

4:40

i just kind of saw an eye trick on that

4:42

and that's so weird to me and then

4:44

also in any

4:45

human interaction they'd always the three

4:47

flight do acknowledge of thing or two not

4:49

only to thing and just keep the conversation going

4:52

and i just know myself if i would have acknowledged

4:54

it i would have made things even weirder

4:57

by like over explaining how i came to have

4:59

this free gucci humbug am i haven't opened

5:01

it since i got it

5:03

i haven't you opened it

5:06

again it doesn't it doesn't feel

5:09

like it belongs to me even though i own

5:11

an who , am is

5:13

not somebody who owns a gucci handbag

5:15

and therefore it stays in the cupboard

5:18

cupboard herb the designer bags are actually

5:20

are it's immaterial and said

5:23

something she could sell it ever things

5:25

ruff

5:26

the motor the person who knows that the ground

5:28

can give way under your feet at any time

5:36

happy point something out there like oh

5:39

, i'm just have this kind of thinking

5:41

like it's a weird

5:44

the to be like

5:46

i don't know what to do i have money like it's

5:48

kind of of my time and shoes this so tight

5:51

are we know if i'd see disgusting like i'm not expecting

5:53

any one is listening

5:54

any sympathy for this to be really be

5:56

declared his even framed as poor

5:59

me

5:59

are you so uncomfortable took my because again

6:02

especially growing up anytime that someone

6:04

with more resources than me complained

6:07

yeah was some fuck up

6:10

like i don't really wanna hear it

6:11

i'm not complaining i'm

6:14

really just trying to describe a ceiling

6:17

i think and actually do

6:19

it was weird the strain beating his

6:21

the feeling of coming but it's a feeling of partner

6:24

read it or an opening the door

6:26

and , it's kind of like a what's

6:28

that thing agoraphobia way you like scared

6:30

of open spaces was like

6:32

really fucking weird to have that when you

6:34

walk into your home have your home

6:36

of like the open space but if

6:39

i'm like looking up states to

6:41

go to bed or something not is really weird i

6:43

feel like a lot to heal it's transitory

6:46

the linear in your house and you're

6:49

going up to bed this , the like

6:51

an hour body sort of like it's me but

6:53

it's not really me exactly like i

6:55

can it's i can see

6:58

see , going up

7:00

the stairs ah

7:03

and every now and then i remind myself of that

7:05

person is me

7:11

the mona that was another big change

7:14

then it came a few months after she'd

7:16

bought the house that had made her feel so unlike

7:18

herself the was in a long awaited

7:20

vacation with friends the

7:22

second to last night because phone

7:25

call from my sister

7:27

the

7:28

the telling me that my mom

7:33

i got a phone call from my sister telling me that my mom had

7:35

a stroke

7:37

the way

7:38

hang back immediately and

7:43

the mean

7:46

he had another stroke

7:49

the news you to stem he

7:52

needs twins for our tell and

7:55

so she moved in with me

7:58

i tried as best i could

7:59

the

8:00

mona swung into action the

8:03

worked out the likely cost of care and

8:05

for how long they could afford it that

8:07

money that she'd been so careful to save

8:09

was actually being useful at

8:13

one point she thought she might have to sell the house

8:16

the weird thing was i felt horribly

8:18

familiar to be in a position where things

8:20

felt more carrie is again when

8:23

i moved into the hills and everything

8:25

was ok six months

8:27

the didn't feel like me

8:29

and now i do still

8:31

like myself because the

8:34

, theory that

8:36

it is just is is just

8:39

the living in a nice house for now

8:43

help isn't mine really in

8:45

the and on some live with my mind to health isn't

8:47

mine and say that makes me feel

8:49

like me

8:51

fishing failing

8:53

when i did get more safe

8:55

i felt less like myself i felt really

8:58

yet disconnected with myself i think

9:00

actually being afraid is part of my identity

9:03

purple , today is all about on

9:05

something you understand to be such a fundamental

9:08

part of yourself changes dramatically

9:10

oh goes away and you're left wondering

9:13

is this still me i'm i still who

9:15

i think i am that feeling

9:17

of me

9:18

minus me

9:20

we agree people facing down monumental

9:22

changes

9:23

wondering exactly the

9:26

same litter

9:39

sometime you them for the life

9:41

of a singer from there

9:42

griffey

9:43

think of a shit fiance made from girl

9:46

group power pop the soul baring

9:48

global superstar the

9:50

i want to play use them recordings of sandy allen

9:53

said is the story is about singing

9:56

i'm for different points in his life them

9:58

about the story of of the leaving a big part

10:01

of themselves and building something

10:03

to replace it there's

10:05

the first recording i'll call

10:07

it the first fully

10:10

you're the first part of a very complicated

10:12

new vocally

10:26

right

10:27

that was sunday around the age of fourteen singing

10:30

scales and a voice listen then

10:33

he was born with a voice or

10:35

the other four or five could be hoisted

10:37

under the nearest table nearest family wedding the

10:40

belt out somewhere as

10:41

the rainbow

10:42

the impromptu wedding gates became

10:44

roles and musicals school and performing

10:47

inquires and courses both at home

10:49

and internationally by

10:51

the age of fifteen sandy had sung

10:53

in acquire that perform that perform that francisco

10:55

giants game and also at the sydney opera

10:57

house

10:58

the was good and he knew it knew

11:01

it like the person in the girls core

11:03

s who would saying the

11:05

mega mega high know you

11:07

know whether it was a and oh holy

11:09

night or the end of the national

11:11

anthem while you're at the mlb game or

11:13

whatever like i was that voice

11:16

sunday's boys with its three octave

11:18

range special enough to seriously

11:20

consider juilliard sunday

11:22

, sound like a disney princess and

11:25

in this party of a song from the little mermaid

11:27

he really does love

11:49

then he didn't go the helium pass

11:52

he became a writer instead that's

11:54

how i first got to know him watching the same

11:56

newsroom

11:57

he still love singing

11:59

harry

11:59

he or accessing at his piano

12:02

with no audience the

12:04

active it then

12:06

you voice high best in

12:08

range and also kind of effortless

12:11

was programmed in the cool

12:13

part of the swirl of dna that made

12:15

sunday sunday everything

12:18

about sunday in , own

12:20

words paid known he was different

12:22

since he was a little kid but

12:25

he kept to himself all through college

12:27

and into his twenties that was when

12:29

he made his first trans friend

12:31

it was it that friend's house that sandy first

12:33

saw this

12:34

there and syringes they

12:36

will take another few years before sunday came

12:38

out as non binary and trans which

12:41

felt great to name out loud whenever

12:44

, thought about actually starting to softer

12:46

and himself it came with came clutch

12:48

of worry a severe anxiety

12:50

around needles nervous

12:52

about his relationships with the people in his lungs

12:55

when it came to articulating all those concern

12:58

the reason i would get myself was i

13:00

can't

13:00

the about my singing voice

13:03

maybe i thought the universe would punish

13:05

me you know i may be i

13:07

saw it said hey if i

13:09

do this monstrous cuomo saying

13:11

and start testosterone and ruin

13:13

this beautiful voice that i spent so

13:15

much of my childhood building then

13:18

the punishment he was that i won't

13:20

ever feel the pleasure of singing

13:23

again

13:24

the fear of losing his voice it's

13:26

one that many trans people have experience

13:28

in spoken about sunday's

13:31

there was that they would be a total absence

13:33

of a singing voice he didn't know

13:35

any famous transmitted thing is thing

13:37

need had one transit guys talking on the podcast

13:40

about how he couldn't sing

13:41

more

13:42

four years went by

13:46

okay here's the second

13:49

set of recording calling

13:51

this one the countdown sessions

13:54

he

14:02

this from late twenty twenty

14:04

about twenty one months ago

14:07

the point sandy had made the choice

14:09

to start t that before

14:11

he started he felt compelled to sing

14:13

some of his favorite song and recording

14:15

doing what i ended

14:17

up doing when doing look back at it now with now with reporting

14:20

really nothing except for my self self that a son

14:22

and plays songs that aid sung in my car

14:24

as a teenager one of the songs that

14:26

are recorded on my own voice with somewhere over

14:28

the rainbow it was almost like i reverse

14:31

all the way to the beginning i

14:33

think it was like it

14:35

was the it the it it felt like a memorial

14:38

you know like hey

14:40

let's give that's one last

14:43

span you know

14:45

you said the thing when ,

14:47

spoke earlier that is salt

14:49

lake countdowns never singing

14:51

again yeah

14:52

yeah

14:53

when i , when

14:56

i felt guilty it

14:58

was like well you know

15:00

if i'm gonna kill this sweet saying this

15:02

than my phone for all the time i

15:05

will at least enjoy

15:07

our our last days together

15:09

robin mouth

15:20

and in higher self heard that was

15:23

the one that i had created he

15:25

know i never felt like a woman but i had

15:27

to act like a woman for a very long time

15:30

and i was saying goodbye all of

15:32

that

15:33

the really feel like you would never seen

15:36

again like never ever

15:37

well i think that if i'm being honest

15:40

my sense was my other my on my

15:42

new voice whatever it was gonna be was gonna

15:44

be so bad that

15:46

i just wouldn't want it

15:49

a man

15:51

named focus

15:54

the new in town seem

15:56

to notice some

15:58

not

16:01

i'm a

16:03

nice

16:05

this is one of his new favorites baby

16:07

eyelashes my future feel

16:09

as good as he sounds

16:11

i mostly hear how

16:13

thin and kind of senators

16:17

that voices and how much it doesn't sit

16:19

me

16:27

home

16:29

you told me that the last song that

16:31

you ever recorded using

16:35

, voice pre

16:37

t was ah

16:39

changes which is the know very on the nose

16:42

nose i'm and as so good that you

16:44

you know this is idea of the flipping to the castle that ah

16:47

changes because of the changes i'm going

16:49

through see but i love that so much

16:51

i love that that was where your your views

16:53

your brain and your voice landed at

16:55

you play landed at bit of that recording

17:09

what do you think the media that version of

17:11

yourself singing

17:13

i hear me singing

17:15

a male artist com

17:17

with a kind of yearnings you

17:19

know i yeah it sounds

17:22

like the most excited have any of

17:24

the take sorry like i your more energy

17:26

and my voice their

17:27

it's like you know and he's

17:29

got that this is what he would

17:31

like to sound like what he could sound

17:34

like every and he's itching to get to a time

17:36

when it's already happening

17:38

i with vote while deep down super

17:40

excited for what with on the other side

17:47

i never live

17:56

let me play the third set of recording

17:58

i'm calling it

17:59

ruff billie

18:09

ha ha

18:12

with the focus

18:14

spending voice and a new phase

18:17

and not always successful that making

18:19

the exact sounds he wanted to be making

18:22

have a dream that ah

18:25

need somebody that you

18:31

i never

18:42

from time to the t to have a notable effect

18:45

on sundays voice those recordings

18:47

are from about two months after he'd started

18:50

i couldn't saying it sounds

18:52

that even sounded okay at all i was

18:54

like a

18:55

green tea tune found

18:57

i had stolen moments where

18:59

i like are you know that quintessential

19:01

voice break where you go to sing a note and

19:03

there

19:04

laughing there like its reminding

19:06

me of you know it's

19:09

different but

19:10

after top surgery for example

19:12

i was so weak in my

19:14

upper body that i couldn't lift

19:16

a glass i couldn't open a door

19:18

and over that period of

19:20

months as as learning how to

19:23

use my upper body again i mean it was

19:25

like the moral victories

19:27

like when i could hold a mug

19:29

and it in didn't feel so heavy that like

19:32

i was gonna drop it it

19:34

as creepy newly posts newly posts

19:36

sandy found himself attempting to sing the songs

19:39

of authors that he wouldn't have approach before

19:42

he tried leonard cohen he tried johnny

19:44

cash none of it was sounding quite

19:46

right

19:48

i thought the road of a lot of things it

19:50

changes the way ways is distributed on your body

19:53

as well as a thickness of your skin and hair

19:55

and even how fast you hair grows

19:58

it over thickens the vocal cords

19:59

making some voice is breaking deep

20:02

founded voice was bogey

20:05

we can pull this off decade second

20:07

puberty the kick in the kind of

20:09

real

20:10

landing and had top surgery was growing

20:12

facial hair and now

20:15

he was waiting for his voice

20:16

the drop

20:17

then one day

20:19

i sat down at the piano i

20:22

hit a middle c and

20:25

i could not saying it you

20:27

know what i mean is gone middle c

20:29

with gone for context middle c used

20:31

to be where i would have started my scale

20:34

you know he would have been kind of just like

20:36

it's the easiest thing to

20:38

dang near the middle c on my previous

20:40

way

20:40

what a legacy of low it wasn't

20:42

like a leaning all the wasn't kind of lego

20:44

it's tapering and now it was just like oh of

20:47

i do as i can do that

20:49

yeah my voice was like

20:52

the the voice that i

20:54

had was like

20:56

honestly a few notes bag

20:59

it was ah but sir i'll

21:01

sat there it's the

21:02

we're going like oh no like

21:05

there's almost nothing here what

21:08

song can even make out

21:10

as such a small ability

21:12

it was a series

21:14

like horrible

21:17

things you all the sudden have my voice

21:19

go from being like

21:21

the most familiar part of my body on

21:23

some level to this completely

21:25

unknown like i didn't even know

21:28

what it could do let alone how to make a do

21:30

it

21:31

i remember the song where

21:33

i sang and and it was like oh my god

21:35

this sounds like a song what was the song

21:38

i run a was your song by elton john

21:40

which not a song that i

21:42

like i remember

21:45

having this moment of like oh my

21:48

gosh it's because seal

21:51

it would like the first time that i was able

21:54

to kind a step back and cross my arms

21:56

and just watch it was like i was going

21:58

wow you know like look

21:59

the thing now now

22:02

i have a much better sense of where the voice starts

22:04

and where in got to neither

22:07

much better sense of how to actually use

22:09

it and i feel it when i'm doing

22:11

it it's a bigger instrument

22:14

begin how

22:16

i think

22:18

when i say that in my mind picturing

22:20

like of violin and a cello

22:23

there are some examples of instruments were there is a smaller

22:25

version that higher there's a piccolo and then there's

22:28

a flu and it's like i'm just rock and a new

22:30

you know it's a bigger and it's lower in

22:32

order to make to make sound you have to move

22:35

more air through that saying i

22:37

need more in order to power it

22:47

the on the last set of recordings now has

22:49

colby's sandy said voice

22:52

i and c

22:54

to focus

22:57

you know him

22:59

, how s i'm

23:02

not he is i'm

23:07

here

23:10

you can been clinging to the

23:12

eyeless again it's honestly

23:14

no at home we were on the

23:16

phone and i else into play me play couple

23:18

of songs lobby we're talking we're

23:20

talking third voice

23:21

the post has testosterone voices

23:24

the river funny song in front of anyone besides

23:27

husband and a couple of friends we

23:29

can currents have abated but sounding

23:31

voice is still in flux

23:33

the voice rehab is ongoing

23:35

man you pm

23:38

me ah ah

23:40

ah man

23:43

it able to hear the difference even only a few

23:45

months apart the , obviously

23:48

deeper more than that it sounds

23:51

but he's been practicing

23:59

the

24:04

that sounds more lived in than what he sent

24:06

me back in march

24:08

good

24:10

yeah probably

24:13

the cool i had to us handy to sing

24:15

changes

24:16

right

24:22

now you're gonna get old i i

24:25

may change

24:27

that i can raise hi

24:31

that i may change

24:34

he the high

24:36

man three

24:50

how

24:53

do you feel

24:54

oh

24:56

the loved every second

24:59

how does your voice field singing it today

25:01

okay yes

25:05

, day that i wake up and i can just saying

25:07

is like another beautiful glorious guest

25:10

it's like wow here we go i can still

25:12

do it and you know some days are better

25:14

in some days or worse but it's like i'm no longer

25:16

in this period of merck

25:19

and everything sealing off

25:21

and searching i'm on

25:23

the other side and i'm just living my

25:25

life

25:27

the effortless three updates us voice

25:29

and his second and maintained voice

25:32

the rule post t voice they're

25:35

all the bones of this new voice that

25:37

he had to build up himself

25:39

it's just it's a different

25:41

sound it's what it's enjoy

25:43

about it in some senses the trans voice

25:45

trans voice know if i sound like a sky i

25:48

think that i sound like something else

25:50

and i'm up product of a very specific

25:53

right set of of things that can happen to

25:55

a body and i

25:57

i love that too i love that it one

25:59

that being a sound that isn't

26:02

like other it feels more grown

26:04

up in a little more fragile perhaps

26:06

because it's new but also like

26:09

i'm i'm always pushing

26:11

it i'm always trying stars

26:14

that i haven't done before

26:16

something he'd never even thought to imagined

26:18

before now was harmonizing that

26:21

himself

26:22

hi had a the

26:24

moment with the other day when we were playing

26:28

some of my old voice over the

26:30

stereo and then i

26:32

in my voice now saying along with

26:35

it and did a self do at and

26:38

there was this moment of like i'm

26:41

not oh man do

26:46

you understand i think part of that

26:48

is just the sheer uncanny ness of

26:51

course it's the same voice like

26:53

the it is me and you

26:55

could hear how in a sense

26:58

faithful or flicker this

27:00

is where the difference

27:03

it felt kind of like i

27:05

like breaking time a

27:08

, the that kind of fossil of my

27:10

own voice in the room and then

27:12

my new one joining it you know

27:14

do wedding with my former voice suddenly

27:17

my former voice become so much more interesting

27:19

to me this

27:21

way where such as this thing that thing

27:23

walked away from ah

27:28

wanna get

27:32

that

27:36

the unexpected a split and himself

27:38

would be arrival of a new voice what

27:41

was once so unfamiliar somehow

27:43

now the truest expression of himself

27:46

you could even say

27:50

ah no supposedly

27:54

home though

27:56

lane ah

27:59

we

28:01

ah the where

28:04

he

28:07

we ah ha ha

28:12

coming out

28:12

a mysterious man in a hospital

28:14

parking lot of us the grant one

28:17

wish that than than from

28:19

chicago public radio

28:21

when our program continues

28:24

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or domain ninety is

29:37

one of the

29:38

in they do when i get up

29:39

they telling me and all the in

29:41

between moments of the day i tend to

29:43

for every four letter word i can signs often

29:46

making seven

29:46

a motel cali

29:49

however yeah there we go i

29:51

feel like i'm

29:52

in my brain a little bit okay i'm going to do

29:54

three for his position of dance

29:56

you can try spelling bee and all new york times

29:58

games

30:07

this american life i'm been

30:09

the me in for ira glass

30:11

the ratio me minus me the

30:14

we the people who change a fundamental part

30:16

of themselves and wonder if they

30:18

still who they thought they were

30:20

the arrived at act two

30:22

me my nephew

30:24

the reached out in one of my favorite writers murray

30:27

phillips and told her about today's

30:29

theme the rent later she'd

30:31

written this short story and sent it to me

30:34

mary

30:36

that's funny sat with her parents by her

30:38

sisters minutes

30:40

her mother was reading aloud from the road less

30:42

traveled while her father must it's

30:44

a himself as he did the crossword the

30:46

rest of light spas machines

30:49

hums and beats and the sneakers

30:51

hurrying nasa's squeaked on rather

30:53

floors stephanie tried

30:55

to ignore it's all is she flicked through client emails

30:58

on her find that it was impossible even

31:01

if she could screen out the noise that

31:03

was the cloying smell of pachulia oil

31:06

rachel favorite from the disease or

31:08

by the bed that

31:10

any haven't thought that that could be aware smell

31:12

than the hospitals nexus disinfectants

31:15

disease and cheap can seat

31:17

the had shooting oil was it

31:20

rachel have been in a coma

31:22

to six months some

31:24

, she'd picked up on one of her endless

31:27

overseas trips to find herself

31:30

nobody could figure out why she had woken up

31:32

yes but the doctors encourage them

31:34

to keep visiting to talking to her hoping

31:36

that something would prompt her to open her eyes

31:40

rachel

31:50

that and his mother finished had cancer

31:53

and press play on an a

31:54

coastal paycheck

31:56

the founders fleets and wales

31:58

some filled the

32:01

i'm trying to stretch my legs said stephanie

32:04

there was a coffee cart by the front door

32:06

the building stephanie ordered

32:08

a double espresso and briefly considered

32:11

and rejected and sweaty pastry

32:14

the coffee tasted like tarmac

32:17

he took it outside in the car park

32:20

and less a cigarette the

32:22

man shuffled over

32:24

he was short and dressed in a long trench

32:26

coat with the collar turned up and a passive

32:28

black hat pull down over his brow like

32:31

a p i in and all detective series

32:34

and was green nauseous

32:37

green but

32:42

hello great so he says

32:43

in the funny earth it then

32:45

shook her head

32:47

my name's not right

32:48

she said

32:50

he made her handbag closer to her body

32:53

my apologies said the green man

32:56

you are stephanie and you'll sit

32:58

in the coma is

32:58

rachel

33:00

allow me to introduce myself i

33:02

am the genie of the man

33:05

the been

33:06

that's funny role hi friend

33:08

, rachel's obviously only

33:11

rachel would have friends who pay themselves

33:13

green and call themselves genie

33:16

he turned to go but the green

33:18

man grabbed her by the wrist i

33:21

have something to

33:21

you he said

33:23

he put his other hand on her forehead

33:25

she felt herself become sissy than

33:28

her mind filled with images playing out

33:30

like a film she , rachel

33:32

unpacking her backpack in her filthy

33:36

filthy clothes and half read

33:38

self help books and ashtrays

33:40

overflowing with rachel's fouled menthol

33:42

cigarettes she saw

33:44

the antique lamp at the bottom of the bag

33:46

rats in and all teasers he's

33:49

all right so rubbing as it's harness on it and

33:51

the green man appearing him offering

33:53

has three wishes as is traditional

33:56

money sex power to

33:58

stephanie what

33:59

if there

34:01

this is alright so looking at the mess around

34:03

her i need to get my shit

34:05

together rachel told the genie

34:07

i need to be more like stephanie she's

34:10

got it all husband's career

34:12

big house

34:14

that wish

34:16

i'd want to be like stephanie

34:19

the wish is my command said the genie

34:22

those , flash and rachel collapse

34:24

to the ground ground that instance

34:27

destiny or someone who looks like

34:29

looks appeared and stephanie

34:31

apartment she was wearing

34:34

a tailored kashmir seat and have

34:36

her head neatly piles and urban the

34:39

stephanie and rachel's apartments

34:41

walked over to mirror and stood at his

34:43

mouth wide

34:54

marry

34:56

me ran her hands said the have forty she

34:59

started to laugh

35:01

he can to the genie

35:03

this is not what i meant she said i

35:05

just wanted to know how she gets what she got

35:08

the know if good

35:10

that's really good

35:11

there's not enough her

35:14

body

35:15

i'm still right so

35:18

okay

35:19

that and with

35:20

i won't actually be stephanie

35:24

i wanted to get others ever

35:25

the

35:26

let me be how completely for

35:29

six months and then come back and get me

35:31

then i can use my third wish to go back

35:33

into my own bodies but i'll remember

35:36

what it was like seeing her

35:38

the wish is my command said

35:40

the genie again

35:42

there was another flash then everything

35:45

went thought

35:46

that's funny felt the genie remove

35:48

his hand from her forehead she

35:51

opened her eyes and found herself

35:53

back in the hospital cough up a cigarette

35:55

burn down the filter

35:58

i'm great so

35:59

he said i'm great so

36:02

crystals magic mushrooms energetic

36:05

healing women who run the wolves exotic

36:08

dancing right so

36:10

god fucking absurd

36:14

the genie nodded

36:17

i don't understand i feel

36:19

like me how can i be

36:21

rachel when i'm still mean

36:24

drink is stephanie like a car said

36:27

the genie the machinery

36:29

still operates in the same way that

36:31

is rachel behind the wheel even

36:33

if she's not aware of it give

36:36

you an example what are you

36:38

smoking

36:39

stephanie

36:41

that me look down at the cigarette in

36:43

her hands ah ,

36:45

said man so i would

36:47

never she tossed

36:49

the revolting thing away

36:52

the lot to take in said the genie

37:02

in brief wanting

37:04

her hands on her skirt

37:12

please

37:15

in there she said pointing

37:17

at the hospital where rates of body lay

37:20

then said the genie

37:21

and when he vacate this body

37:24

stephanie will come back she

37:26

won't remember the last six months or any

37:28

of this but other than that shall

37:30

carry on as normal then

37:32

i'll be rachel again

37:34

really right so

37:36

i'll remember that all

37:38

that's right

37:40

you'd be right shot

37:41

how crappy basement flat

37:44

with a crispy job getting teenage

37:46

girls piercings and class accessories

37:48

and across the parade of crappy boyfriends

37:51

who smelled like on washed had while

37:54

stephanie went back to how much since

37:56

and hello fun and how hot how

37:58

husband he cooks like a

37:59

in start my

38:02

mention my law firms

38:04

my house

38:05

husband ever fans

38:08

and i would be right so she thought i'm

38:11

right so

38:15

still got one wish she said to

38:17

the genie

38:18

i didn't actually make my third wish back

38:20

in the flat

38:22

the green man nodded

38:25

then finish her off she said

38:30

kill it

38:32

and leave me alone

38:35

he let another menthol cigarettes and walks

38:37

away

38:39

come time

38:40

one where she's only need

38:50

the refill it who is a younger

38:52

sister by the way as a my murray's

38:55

latest book is create your own

38:57

midlife crisis the best way

38:59

to make

39:00

the decision

39:06

angry one pill made

39:08

me small

39:11

the past year writer call local

39:13

now have the decency is made a change

39:15

that have the potential to alter who she has

39:17

known herself to be for many years

39:20

he really didn't know who would emerge the

39:23

heads up the story briefly mention

39:25

suicide

39:27

there's karma

39:28

in my early twenties i would sometimes flirt

39:31

with boys i didn't even like at parties

39:33

i didn't wanna be at by saying things

39:35

like i'm on the maximum dose

39:37

of my anti psychotic

39:39

because i like that

39:40

the found in dress it felt like a general

39:43

disclaimer that nothing i sat should be taken

39:45

seriously

39:46

now if i say i went off man

39:49

a psychotic with no see just of infection

39:52

with no inflection at all

39:53

at thirty three years old married to

39:55

a woman increase related alcohol

39:59

it's often

39:59

how dangerous but not in a socially

40:02

sanctioned halfway the

40:04

can escape stigma

40:06

there's your on these pills

40:08

there he got off the else

40:11

the story of coming off the pills

40:15

one night last fall i told

40:16

partner talia that something was off

40:19

can feel sadness or joy i

40:22

couldn't distinguish and goodness and and frustration

40:24

from accent

40:26

i thought it had to deal with my current anti psychotic

40:28

litter

40:29

i've never experienced psychosis

40:32

that legit as

40:32

reddit and co

40:35

i've been taking it for thoughts that go round and

40:37

round and the general stay a suicidal

40:39

feelings i struggled with

40:41

sometimes explosives emotions that i had a hard

40:43

time regulating

40:45

and in the years since here

40:46

no prescription and to lots and lots

40:48

of therapy i'd grown stronger

40:50

and more stable

40:52

the would you to have saved my life but

40:54

in the way that us that dating dart save your life

40:57

it made me so lethargic that it wasn't

40:59

about to act out on all my feelings or

41:02

even to fill them

41:03

i asked my psychiatrist what you thought

41:06

about maybe going oscillator

41:08

he said he was proud at the work i've done over the past

41:10

the years

41:12

that like up the

41:12

the commencement speech

41:16

then we made a plan to paper my deaths down to

41:18

zero

41:20

to declare i'm not anti

41:22

matt i love mans

41:24

i believe my anti depressants pleural

41:27

which i still take are helping me thrive

41:30

the what you do with different

41:32

the heavy medication targeting challenges

41:34

i had addressed and therapy

41:37

maybe i was ready to try life without

41:40

i'd been on when anti psychotic or another

41:42

since my early twenties

41:44

i didn't know what i was like without the medication

41:47

and was an odd feeling to realize that realize did

41:49

not know why was

41:53

i could be anyone and that was maybe the

41:55

scariest thing about going off split shudder

41:58

what if i was unrecognizable

41:59

oh yeah my my dot or

42:02

my editors

42:04

what if i became unrecognizable to myself

42:15

i started tapering off the today november

42:17

and in january

42:18

the conversation with talia about

42:20

how it was going

42:22

you and i am have

42:24

been together with

42:27

local heard

42:29

on of in ohio

42:31

i'm not overcrowded

42:33

after posted it on

42:35

, long

42:38

the thinking about phone

42:41

the with it or not at all

42:43

oh okay

42:46

the posting no no now

42:49

the person that i am delighted

42:52

at and , wonder how

42:54

you react to somebody you didn't the

42:57

didn't know or maybe it and like

42:59

awful a to

43:02

if i was wearing up at him

43:05

and

43:07

know what exists ,

43:09

recipients of the tab on

43:12

the camp prompting him to talk

43:22

the i don't want you a yes or no i

43:24

am

43:25

formulating i thought

43:27

i go on and academic

43:30

are you teachers college students and does

43:32

her best to get me to write with outlines

43:35

the statements and evidence to support

43:38

are you know got together in grad school at yale

43:40

and she often fact checks my memories because

43:42

those years or a blur

43:44

i was popping out of and from many outweigh

43:47

ten

43:47

the literature seminars

43:49

the news today

43:50

the medications henry falling asleep and

43:52

cafes

43:53

wandering lost in downtown you haven

43:57

over time with a rotating door

43:59

of psychiatrist

43:59

diagnoses and medications including

44:02

with you that i got better in the ways

44:04

we measure getting better for mental illness

44:06

i made plans of foods

44:09

i was productive i wear lipstick

44:12

the plan this not away

44:14

the all the time

44:16

it made me feel damaged and broken

44:18

and radioactive in ways

44:21

i can even understand

44:29

okay for them and how

44:32

many months since i stopped taking

44:34

ability to january

44:36

february march april

44:38

that hammocks no way

44:41

to have to have have you remember

44:43

that it was junior i kept a diary yeah

44:45

those were

44:47

for some long

44:51

evening said i just spent and abetted just

44:54

flying down the do you remember that it

44:57

when you think about that time with

44:58

do you remember a certain feeling

45:02

i remember

45:04

they did a first

45:06

three months i i i wanted

45:08

to to go back to back back yeah

45:11

the runway discouraged

45:14

well maybe you should say why discouraged

45:17

there are any

45:18

the you know frequently you would have been a days

45:20

air and

45:22

you would

45:23

the now to me the and to say that you

45:26

need every litter

45:28

i would say the am

45:34

and

45:36

before you may such a big decision why

45:38

don't you

45:38

make sure that you're not reacting

45:41

to withdraw yeah just

45:44

because once you go back on you're gonna lose the

45:46

opportunity to and how that

45:49

they could you could just away it

45:52

wasn't because they didn't want you to be unless you that

45:54

it was honestly because i want as you

45:57

the know and like think about what you know

45:59

the

46:01

and you wouldn't have ever gotten the chance to know

46:03

that

46:06

what do you remember about wanting to

46:08

go back

46:08

i'm thinking you can do what do

46:10

you remember

46:13

i remember thinking that it was a lot of

46:15

work in l yeah i remember

46:18

i'm having a sense when

46:20

i always wanted to know with the baseline for cool

46:22

what i who i was what i was at the face

46:25

and awful it should i

46:27

i

46:29

they didn't really

46:30

no right of what i was experiencing

46:33

at that time

46:34

when really was year

46:36

what i did now is that on

46:39

of is experiencing like bodily things

46:42

like the make sense and the

46:44

clammy mass and in a visa

46:46

the thing that made me feel like no

46:48

other said a constant nice

46:50

ass headaches that made me feel

46:52

like

46:53

you know like an old computer

46:56

this running on at hand as as feels really

46:58

really hot

46:59

the thing that

47:01

the way

47:02

what happened when you went on solitaire a

47:04

industry

47:05

the option of immersion

47:07

i'm the haitian

47:13

that was scared i think it all

47:15

the humor of making

47:17

a more you pay for feel

47:20

and then

47:21

there

47:24

the depending on their and for many

47:26

months i didn't

47:27

what with me and what was the with strong

47:29

very

47:29

but slowly the bodily agitation

47:32

migraines and shivers listed and

47:34

i was less let me know the difference

47:36

between you

47:37

the and our food who that is

47:39

shit

47:45

they definitely can your

47:47

feet here will fear of like

47:53

no i don't seem to have a different from

47:55

with it

48:04

it's true

48:05

i'm not a different person asked

48:08

everything is harder now moving

48:10

through my day is like trying to beat egg whites

48:13

into

48:13

ran out a mixer just

48:16

a butter knife all effort and

48:18

i'm bone tired at the end of each

48:20

i feel much more sensitive than i have ever

48:23

felt tender sore

48:25

and scared like a plan among

48:27

at they be there are a yorkie

48:29

with the bobcat for a neighbor a

48:32

good family nothing to make me fall apart not

48:35

, able to open a jar dropping

48:37

a mug of coffee kicking the weather

48:39

personally i fell apart

48:41

multiple times a day

48:44

you don't recruit from

48:45

no time together myself now

48:47

you're overwhelmed i excuse myself

48:50

to another room said a fifteen minute

48:52

timer blast for it

48:53

hey i'm cry

48:55

i watch video about chipmunk facts

48:57

narrated by a young and the seems as delighted

48:59

the chipmunks of i am

49:01

and then and sign

49:03

i'm back downstairs making coffee

49:06

scheduling doctors appointments and zoom meetings

49:08

sometimes even before the alarm goes off

49:12

the tudor which we supposed to protect me from emotional

49:14

intensity could we supposed to prevent

49:16

me from breaking down just cut me stuck

49:18

in bad

49:19

that about being fat

49:22

i've also noticed that i can concentrate

49:24

that are now for longer stretches of time

49:27

for awhile and the to that i could not read

49:30

not at all

49:31

it only remains

49:33

that felt lonely

49:35

i'm reading again

49:39

one morning i took my

49:40

the and demons on a walk in the nearby let's

49:43

i was midway through the

49:44

first chapter of edith wharton's house

49:46

of cards on audio back

49:50

starry eyed about the rhythm of her sentence

49:53

as the wickedness and speed of her

49:55

well as sensuous appreciation

49:57

of melodrama i felt a bit

49:59

uni bomber

50:01

i thought about weren't the way i felt about

50:03

john mayer and seventh grade and

50:06

reason for squares and

50:08

, the song your body as

50:10

your body

50:21

and confronting strangers again that's that

50:24

maybe , because i grew up in new york under giuliani

50:26

or because my dad had an explosive camper

50:29

and once my brother was born

50:31

i learned that if i was scared

50:33

with more power was going to be a fucking asshole

50:35

to someone with less power i could put my

50:37

body in between them and dare the bullet to blink

50:39

first

50:40

the thing about me

50:42

if i never blink first

50:45

the couple of months ago i ran a guy

50:47

out of the liquor store downtown because

50:50

he did a little bow and said mama

50:52

stayed

50:52

to an indian cat who was working behind the

50:54

counter

50:55

he also kept interrogating him

50:57

about the village where she was born and

50:59

the kid clearly did not want to talk about it

51:02

he would paint and annoying

51:04

i was being run out by aggressively school

51:08

district , the cashier

51:10

said something to something i did not sure and

51:12

and asked him to

51:13

the

51:14

then i heard myself say i'm

51:17

sorry can you say that again i was distracted

51:19

by how much that

51:20

the knows about india

51:22

the guy in his wife heard me say that kale

51:24

and announced the store did not have the wind

51:26

they were looking for ask com

51:28

that's on the guy did a little bow and said mama

51:30

stay to the cashier sir

51:33

that's fucking good fucking told him

51:36

they were the story

51:38

i wouldn't have done that on the the to maybe

51:41

i wouldn't do it again but

51:43

it's certainly

51:52

i remember the exact moment a few months ago

51:55

and the middle of the nine on the toilet

51:57

when i realized i felt happy

51:59

nothing had happened i was still have asleep

52:02

but the rest was unmistakable grab

52:05

my son and made note of the time to am

52:07

he wrote a short description of what felt

52:09

like in case i wouldn't remember it's

52:11

i needed photographic the loch ness

52:13

monster in the morning

52:15

earlier this summer i sat in the kiddie

52:17

pool we picked up from walmart with my book

52:20

and my music and my dog

52:22

i've been doing this every day for weeks and it made me

52:24

feel safe let from within with

52:26

love for the whole world

52:28

i can wrote down the time and place

52:30

that's one of seven pm from the hammock

52:33

covered my old wet

52:35

hand held we kept in the freezer to help

52:37

it my body temperature a natalia

52:39

only this

52:40

i happy

52:42

the thirty pick of my yard day

52:45

there must be what happy woman

52:47

the i think

52:48

i also know that in a few hours on the

52:51

sun goes down i will crash something

52:53

about the color of the sky at

52:54

that makes me feel gloomy and dark

52:56

it is irrational

52:58

it is also very real

53:00

that happens

53:01

won't remember what it felt like to be

53:03

the now i make a point to remember

53:06

something else i realized sadness

53:09

comes with everyday

53:10

there was there on the lead to their their athletic

53:14

then as is always

53:15

the corner i was right now

53:17

like a shadow or disney sick

53:21

i think

53:23

like accepting and

53:25

read this and as tall as you're going again

53:28

then i like realized that

53:30

and i told my psychiatrist

53:32

i can compound

53:33

we're gonna always be sad

53:35

remember i was like because

53:37

that is the constant

53:39

i think my entire life has been looking for an

53:42

serve like just why my so

53:44

sad and

53:45

he would like

53:47

what did you just accept that that

53:49

is higher than a feel for the rest of your life

53:52

what decisions to make for yourself

53:54

to you know make

53:56

life gentler and to do things

53:59

that you wanna do in kill

54:00

yeah happiness

54:03

for any non sadness

54:06

he said that said that like a goal

54:08

you can have a meaningful else i have

54:11

a fulfilling my friend

54:12

have an influential life

54:15

and

54:15

you didn't necessarily have to have

54:18

like a happy life

54:20

and

54:22

maybe like two months

54:24

ago the he said that end

54:26

i think that was a turning point

54:28

for me because i think the thing

54:30

that i was always trying to

54:32

corrected myself and st language

54:34

far as

54:36

the

54:37

like there's like a like a whole him

54:40

that's not the like a melon baller melon

54:43

village

54:45

i can i see nine eleven yes

54:48

and no i know this is i feel like

54:50

there's like a maryland a tad emphasis

54:53

is on the yeah yeah yeahs yeah

54:55

i'm disliked i guess that's the way it is

54:58

yeah everybody's different

55:06

fortunately or unfortunately it's

55:08

still me i come home to every day and

55:11

and still learning so still am and what i'm

55:13

like i am a curious

55:15

about the too loud too bright too

55:17

harsh world ever and ever

55:19

more curious the thirty percent less

55:21

upset

55:23

i'm not sure i like myself

55:25

yeah but i do trust myself to

55:27

columbus

55:29

even if i end up in the backyard staring

55:32

at

55:32

and cardinal who is so fucking okay

55:37

the

55:48

com a corner her the abyss and ceo is

55:50

the author of the book the undocumented

55:52

the americans the story for us

55:54

was produced by season burton

56:36

if i mean sin other one

56:38

is an edited by david kastenbaum

56:41

the people who put together today show include show

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56:50

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56:52

catherine raimondo said he or raymond

56:54

marisa robots in texas rhine rummery

56:56

shallots lisa source us as he lily

56:58

sullivan census once and for services

57:01

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57:03

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57:05

german or executive editor emanuel

57:07

barry

57:08

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57:10

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57:12

of the book a kind of miraculous paradise

57:15

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57:17

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57:20

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57:23

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57:46

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57:49

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57:51

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back next week with more stories

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58:18

you're gonna podcast it as american i

58:21

now when he went to high school in the bronx and how

58:23

classes betty to be part of an exchange program

58:25

the teacher basically to these public school kids to

58:28

visit one of new york's fanciest private

58:30

schools just three miles away but

58:32

mony city says that when they got their melanie

58:34

could not believe what you saw

58:36

we have to get here soon say anything months

58:38

got a good idea got a good idea

58:39

what happens when you see just how much

58:41

greener the grasses next you're

58:43

gonna podcast when you look about the radio

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