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hi everybody smack and life

0:40

so our one of our produces read this book a few

0:42

months ago and she was like this story

0:45

is really unusual and

0:48

also happen to be written way that's perfect

0:50

for radio we maybe just

0:52

condenser down voted on the show

0:54

and so a few of us read the book including me and

0:57

we agreed this is story you really

0:59

don't hear basically

1:02

the story there's this coupon you

1:04

get alzheimer's and of course so

1:06

many of us know people with alzheimer's i

1:09

feel like a site watching somebody

1:11

you love just drift

1:13

slowly off into space the things

1:15

that make them them get taken away one

1:18

after another

1:19

and and a couple the man

1:21

issue at his wits about him some

1:23

kind of assisted suicide before got to

1:25

wait and his wife

1:27

looks around and found this place in switzerland

1:29

to go to then we'll

1:32

make the bucks a special is the does and a note the

1:34

daily news and realness of

1:36

the way that his wife tells what

1:39

, was i to go through through

1:41

that is interesting couple that you get to know very

1:44

specific people going through the same honestly it's

1:46

for everybody i have known with dementia or alzheimer's

1:48

i have never met anybody who made this particular

1:50

choice and you get here how that plays

1:53

out and it's very up by size

1:55

you see this couple of after

1:58

they realize they has alzheimer's but also you see or

2:00

before when he says kind of acting hardly

2:02

and it's all annoying but she

2:04

, know why just yet yet

2:07

so are we gonna delay the first part of today show

2:09

is that story and then after the after

2:12

it gets later we have another a wife

2:14

and mother this one a this

2:16

comedian are trying to do the best

2:18

to her family from devi be

2:20

this guy from i'm her class and

2:23

i just get to it and so you may

2:25

know this book that we're accepting

2:27

a custom attention is by amy bloom who's

2:29

read novels and short stories over the years had this

2:31

story is true and deterrence had

2:34

called in love the book and

2:36

i just says for restart the stories about somebody who's

2:38

making the very difficult decision to end

2:40

survive because of a progressive terminal disease

2:42

which of course is buried different from somebody

2:45

thinking about suicide as part of part mental health crisis

2:48

but if you are having thoughts of suicide take

2:50

on into account before with me any further

2:55

ah we are action

2:57

strategy

2:59

amy poehler

3:00

sunday january twenty sixth

3:03

twenty twenty

3:04

jfk international airport

3:08

this trip to zurich is a new

3:10

not quite normal version of something brian

3:13

and i love traveling

3:16

we usually do we take a car service

3:18

to the airport so we can be fancy

3:20

and also avoid the park and slim

3:23

and even before brian had alzheimer's

3:25

are combine lack of direction as twenty

3:27

minutes to all transportation transitions

3:30

the have a restaurant meal before six pm

3:32

departure

3:33

by a stick of lipstick and a small to with

3:35

hand cream brian by some candy

3:38

we share gum we share a bottle of

3:40

water the are smiling

3:43

from the moment we board

3:44

as soon as we get our beverages in

3:46

glasses we toast my sister

3:49

and brother in law for paying for a business

3:51

class trip to zurich

3:53

didn't it houses offices in zurich

3:55

and that's where we're headed davis

3:57

houses a swiss nonprofit organisers

3:59

an offering accompanied suicide

4:02

and it is one of the very few places in the world

4:04

to go for painless peace though and

4:07

legal suicide

4:10

in our to say or pods brian and i trust

4:13

each other and we say here's to you

4:15

a little hesitantly instead of what we usually

4:17

say tenth army may we have a hundred

4:20

years a very italian toast there

4:23

is no centanni for us we

4:25

will make a tour fifteenth wedding anniversary

4:32

i've insisted that we don't bring proper suitcases

4:35

with his i will not love home a large suitcase

4:37

full of clothes he will never wear a medicines

4:40

he will never take i won't

4:42

dumps his clothes that the swiss version of good

4:44

will unleash his meds for the cleaning staff

4:47

basically i just want deal with it was asked

4:49

her after brian has

4:51

died and i have to leave him my

4:53

goal is to get myself on of same with my friend

4:55

who has offered to accompany me home then

4:58

, daughter sarah will meet me at the airport and

5:00

sarah and i will be met by my daughter caitlin

5:03

and the to for them will say goodnight to me and

5:05

my fantasy is that is will phones my bed

5:08

and knock it up for two weeks

5:10

this is absolutely not what happens

5:17

march twenty nine team stoney creek

5:20

connecticut prime

5:22

memory loss began and twenty sixteen

5:25

and it was small and then bigger

5:27

and then startling

5:29

name's disappearing repetition

5:31

information turned upside down appointments

5:34

and medication scrambles

5:37

suddenly it seemed we argued

5:39

endlessly about everything gregarious

5:43

man he didn't wanna see friends

5:45

except assists the , talked

5:47

only about the past his childhood

5:49

and football i could not serum

5:52

to any other subjects in

5:54

the evenings i said because i didn't

5:57

know any better that maybe we should

5:59

talk about our

5:59

now as it's going on him

6:02

and me and his retirement and

6:04

the kids and grandchildren and our friends

6:07

and he said sure

6:09

we didn't

6:11

the evenings were hours of television

6:13

one

6:15

spring morning i'd been weeping because dry

6:17

and seems so distant and in that moment

6:20

weeping the harder because although i could

6:22

see that he was concerned and truly sorry

6:24

he had upset me i , also

6:26

see that he didn't really know why i was upset

6:29

and reminding him of our long pointless

6:31

fight the day before wasn't helping

6:34

we still have the occasional sunday in

6:36

conversations that we'd always had and

6:38

cherished somebody hurt somebody

6:41

ceilings and somebody is odin apology

6:43

which will be forthcoming sooner forthcoming me

6:45

later from him but delivered by dinnertime

6:49

the prime was not immune to the lore

6:51

of the i didn't say it or if

6:53

i said i didn't mean that approach one

6:56

of the things i love with his willingness to

6:58

own up they'd be a burst

7:00

of anger the black cloud would pass

7:03

and my husband would dig a little deeper and

7:05

usually come up with a genuine apology

7:08

my favorite i'm sorry i'm was

7:10

such was knuckle heads the

7:13

cloud didn't pass now the apology

7:15

was thin or weary or cold

7:19

i could feel him through a the last and as banging

7:21

on screaming at him

7:23

why is there glass between us where

7:25

did it come from take it down

7:28

brian looked at me the puzzled

7:30

irritated concern and said and effect

7:33

what boys

7:35

please please stop complaining

7:37

about this thing that isn't even there

7:41

monday january twenty seventh twenty

7:44

twenty

7:44

the rock

7:47

we landed zurich and the hotels

7:48

car service takes us to the pretty hotel

7:51

in the hobbled stoned old town section

7:54

the city's warmer than we expect and

7:56

it's drizzling

7:57

i feel

7:58

the and out of place at the hotels

7:59

front desk

8:01

ryan wanders around in and out of the

8:03

lobby and when i see him walk

8:05

through appears swinging doors at the end of the whole

8:08

the i'm searching for our passports my

8:10

stomach hurts

8:11

the does every

8:12

he with my side

8:15

when he comes back a few minutes later i've

8:17

pull myself together

8:18

every time the concierge ask me a question

8:21

i fumble white a suspect why

8:23

, we here would be like a map of

8:25

all the stores on band how strauss strauss

8:28

to blow to me

8:31

they show me the bar in the library in

8:33

, to say to brian that reminds me a little

8:35

of a hotel we loved in amsterdam

8:38

but i am afraid that he won't remember the trip

8:40

the hotel i'm afraid

8:43

that he won't but he will pretend that he does

8:45

and i won't know he does or doesn't which

8:47

is awful or i will know he doesn't

8:50

which is also awful i

8:52

don't say anything which is usually the

8:54

choice i make now they

8:57

are both exhausted by the time we get our

8:59

room

9:03

spring twenty nineteen stoney

9:05

creek

9:07

our normal life had begun to acquire

9:09

a level of effort that i had last had to make

9:11

when i had had an unhappy marriage a full

9:14

time job a teenager a toddler

9:16

and a baby with none of the joy

9:19

having barely looked at another man or woman

9:21

for fourteen years i was now imagining

9:23

myself having drinks on a rooftop lounge

9:26

with pleasant but unlikely even unpromising

9:28

companions brian

9:30

and i were always stickley close

9:33

we like to grocery shop together now

9:36

i exhaled when he went for a long walk

9:38

and ruminated late at night the maybe i

9:40

should get him a small apartment in new haven

9:43

some hundred helper is needed how

9:46

i could have contemplated helper managed

9:49

not to wonder why i was thinking that

9:51

my sixty five year old husband who

9:53

were faulkner and worked out three times

9:55

a week would need a helper

9:58

i couldn't

9:59

absolutely could not say

10:03

tell anyone in the world that i have these

10:05

thoughts i did tell close

10:07

friends that he was driving me crazy with his

10:10

mail mid sixties early retirement

10:12

loose ends and it will pass

10:14

i said to myself and look he's

10:16

, stained glass i found

10:19

the teacher made the appointments it'll lessen

10:21

and located the studio and he's

10:23

going to his book club i scanned the

10:25

planning emails when he felt overwhelmed

10:27

and iran's library for the book and

10:30

he's pursuing the occasional zoning sites and

10:32

our little town and studying the town's bylaws

10:34

with great enthusiasm so really what's

10:37

wrong couldn't say

10:40

but i knew that this man was not the man i married

10:42

and the change had her for not over fifty years

10:45

which would have been very sad but not

10:48

the to stupid

10:57

the news and to me that people said to me well

11:00

why go to switzerland i mean why not

11:02

oregon or colorado or hawaii

11:04

or vermont

11:05

the right to die laws in those states

11:09

that some people said this to

11:10

the right before and right after

11:12

my husband died was more than amazing

11:15

the right to die physician assisted

11:17

dying laws in california colorado

11:20

oregon vermont montana

11:22

new mexico district of columbia

11:24

new jersey main why and washington

11:27

the choir that you be or become a resident

11:29

of that state sometimes quick and easy

11:32

not always in order to

11:34

pursue your physician assisted suicide

11:36

and also consistently you

11:39

are mentally competent medically

11:41

assessed as having only six months to live

11:43

and can express your wish to die usually

11:46

three times twice orally and

11:48

once and writing to to local physicians

11:51

practically speaking you have to be damn

11:53

close to death's door to get a doctor to swear

11:55

that you'll be dead and six months

11:58

you have to physician interview

11:59

some days apart in which you assert that

12:02

you are not psychotic or suicidal

12:04

or depressed and , the

12:06

doctors agree with you you

12:08

have to be able to swallow whatever the doctor

12:10

prescribes without any assistance

12:13

choosing to die and being able to act

12:15

independently was terminally ill is

12:17

a deliberately narrow opening many

12:20

people can't get through it

12:22

they can't follow well enough they

12:25

can't talk well enough they

12:27

can't hold the glass or mix the drink

12:29

on their own and helping someone

12:31

hold the glass is glass crime and much of

12:33

america people who

12:35

do wish to end their lives and shorten their period

12:37

of great the from loss those

12:40

people out of luck of the united states of

12:42

america

12:49

the timber two thousand and five durham

12:52

connecticut how we

12:54

met ryan

12:56

and i so love the way some middle aged people

12:58

in unhappy partnerships and in small towns

13:01

do liberal democrats

13:03

and republicans town like

13:05

types and a town full of northern europeans

13:08

opinionated loud mouth people

13:10

who are willing to man the durham democrats

13:12

hotdog stand up dogs insider

13:15

every september at the sir

13:17

i overlooked is bad haircut and aviator

13:20

glasses

13:21

i'm sure yeah to overlook my lack of interest

13:23

in sports a my impatience

13:25

ryan could talk about a plastic a zeebo

13:28

or additional parking at the library for

13:30

hours

13:31

we have been walking together since our partners

13:33

were not walkers and talking together in

13:35

public at our local democrats breakfast

13:38

club and then suddenly

13:40

talking and private he

13:43

said i was a three sport captain

13:45

and high school and i last he

13:47

said it would have been for sports but you can't

13:49

do lacrosse and baseball the

13:52

right i said and he took my hand he

13:55

said what's your family like

13:57

i said jews from new york you

14:00

he said were more football family

14:03

we have three heisman trophy is my family

14:06

i said what's a heisman

14:08

and he kissed me

14:10

i kissed him back and sense

14:11

we we avoided each other for the next year

14:15

after a year and some martinis in new haven

14:17

at the end of the day the asked me to take

14:19

a walk with him

14:21

he said

14:22

that's stupid

14:24

i know how this will end

14:26

you'll tell me we should not do this to the people

14:28

we love or i'll tell you and we

14:31

will go back to our allies were we should be

14:34

and i will never get over this

14:37

for

14:38

the blow up our allies and be together

14:41

they want to say this

14:42

that before we walk back to our cars

14:45

i , who you could be with someone

14:48

rich someone fancy some

14:50

guy your sister fines for you but

14:53

i know who you should be with you

14:55

should be with a guy who doesn't mind that you're smarter

14:57

than he is but doesn't mind that

14:59

most of the time you'll be the main event you

15:03

need to be with a guy who supports how hard you

15:05

work and who bring your cup of coffee

15:07

late coffee late i don't

15:09

know if i can be that guy he said tears

15:11

in his eyes but i'd like a shop

15:15

we married

15:21

there is a august fifteenth twenty

15:23

nine teen new haven connecticut

15:26

we have an appointment the neurologist

15:29

we get them plenty of time the

15:31

secretary receptionist nods at

15:33

us from behind the glass

15:36

the around six million people with

15:38

hi mostly and i'd states and many

15:40

many more with m c i a mild

15:42

cognitive impairment awesome

15:44

one of the first stages of alzheimer's but

15:46

not for everybody another reevaluation

15:49

every six months is recommended to people

15:52

with m c i know website

15:54

can tell you why frequent reevaluation

15:56

is recommended as there is no

15:58

successful treatment for mc

15:59

the

16:00

for for slow the progression of m c i

16:02

to all simers or really for

16:05

alzheimer's itself

16:07

almost two thirds of these six million people

16:10

are women almost two thirds

16:12

of the caregivers for those alzheimer's patients

16:14

are also women there are lots

16:16

of theories about why more women than men

16:18

get dementia but only series i

16:21

don't have the scientific training to assess

16:23

these theories there are no com

16:25

for was serious about why women make up

16:28

two thirds of the unpaid dementia caregivers

16:30

because no theories are needed who

16:33

, know know daughter's

16:36

wise of course that someone's

16:38

to mention

16:45

thursday july eighteenth twenty

16:47

nineteen still the creek

16:49

m r i day

16:51

the appointment for brian's m r i is

16:53

a h the five is only fifteen

16:56

minutes away we , wake

16:58

up at six thirty brand

17:00

lies in bed for a while rumbling at his phone

17:03

the takes his morning meds and tells me his

17:05

contemplating a shower

17:07

i encourage the shower because he has a bad

17:09

case psoriasis on his scale the

17:12

only thing that keeps it from trailing into his eyebrows

17:14

and erupting around his nose is the medicated

17:17

shampoo he uses every day we

17:20

have been talking about the psoriasis

17:22

shampoo use daily for about a year

17:24

and a half looking back

17:26

it seems like a lot of fraught conversation

17:29

to have about continuing to do something he's

17:31

done almost every day for the fourteen years

17:33

we've been together he's a good

17:35

looking man my

17:37

husband always smelled great and looked good

17:39

and was then about his good looks as wolf

17:42

a smile on his dark six hair i

17:45

didn't mind the vanity which was not access

17:47

is mostly shared only with me about

17:50

once a year he grabbed his stomach and said

17:52

if it was free i'd get a tummy tucks after

17:55

he had his cataracts removed he dragged

17:57

me into the bathroom to look with him into the mirror

17:59

that he said you never told me

18:03

six weeks later he was getting and getting list

18:06

when we go out to dinner and looked out on a sea

18:08

of men his age even if we have been in

18:10

a serious argument he grinned

18:12

tap me on my hand and say hi

18:15

to a like me now and i always

18:17

laugh i didn't understand

18:19

why was now having to say wash your hair

18:21

honey or honey take a shower

18:25

now i understand and

18:27

now that i understand i wish that was middle aged

18:29

man laziness the retirement lose

18:31

or mans response to being told what

18:33

to do

18:35

it's not

18:36

i've been reading and as mild cognitive

18:38

impairment which as far as i can

18:40

tell our informative post

18:42

informative r i meeting with the neurologist will be next

18:45

week the wildly euphemistic

18:47

name for the early stages of dementia

18:56

the clock trying test and the mini

18:58

mental status exam

19:01

in our second appointment the neurologist gets

19:03

down to us bryan probably

19:06

in a tone that says definitely has

19:08

a dementing disease it's probably

19:10

all simers very very

19:13

likely

19:14

seven on the web sites they disk the

19:17

all timers trajectory as three

19:19

to four to twenty years

19:21

the neurologist disagrees

19:24

eight to ten to maybe maybe

19:26

twelve

19:27

the remember his have these symptoms for

19:29

at least two

19:30

three three years

19:33

the neurologist makes clear that those eight

19:35

to ten to twelve years for brian

19:37

would be the end of life

19:39

the ended his body's life

19:41

i have now watched enough alzheimer's diary

19:44

videos

19:45

who records discreet and posted

19:47

on youtube food this i

19:49

think

19:50

even though i'm as grateful as i am horrified

19:53

that it very clear that the

19:55

end of the body will be long after the

19:57

end of the self

20:00

i move into the practical the neurologist

20:02

signals that we are coming to the end of the appointment

20:05

she said the bryan probably should not be driving

20:08

even with the gps not because he'll

20:10

get lost because

20:12

fry in some sense i might be an accident

20:15

you might kill someone the neurologist says

20:18

we are both silent

20:25

we get home and we cry for an hour in

20:27

each other's arms we agree

20:29

not to do much talking for twenty four hours

20:32

our whole weekend is crying and talking

20:35

and binge watching tv at night i

20:37

was sure the prime had all timers before

20:39

the m r i

20:41

i thought it's not a surprise

20:44

but it wasn't surprised the

20:46

way every bad thing even as you

20:48

see the flames in the distance even as

20:50

the terrible thing as upon you breathing

20:53

in your ear hammering on your narrow bones

20:56

still surprise

21:05

the before we fall asleep brian muses

21:07

allowed about his wish to control his ass

21:10

and how i will arrange that for him

21:13

he made up his mind after forty eight hours

21:15

and never wavered we

21:17

cried and i agreed and he said

21:19

to me you the researchers

21:21

you're so good at that stuff

21:24

which meant a while i was looking up exit international

21:26

in the hemlock society

21:28

and web sites that sell you both the plastic

21:30

turkey bag and the helium

21:32

seen for your own do it yourself suffocation

21:35

i was also researching how to get sense known

21:38

as in a barber tall and sodium pentobarbital

21:40

on the dark web

21:43

research the public library not

21:45

on the phone not phone my laptop

21:48

the internet tells me again and again

21:50

not to search anything from my own computer

21:52

and that if that if to know something call

21:55

don't text and don't use my

21:57

own laptop

22:03

i was discovering the limits of my friends

22:05

with medical degrees in the possibilities

22:07

of carbon monoxide poisoning new

22:10

car in your garage

22:11

what has become more issues since nineteen seventy

22:13

five when the car industry

22:16

adjusted the ceo emissions and then

22:18

applied catalytic converters

22:20

also we don't have a garage

22:28

ryan's dearest oldest friend

22:30

is fishing buddies and sanctions seventy

22:32

nine says to brian if

22:34

you think you don't need to go right now and

22:36

you wanna wait awhile

22:38

i can to shoot myself in a year or two

22:40

in a field

22:42

brian hudson

22:45

and look up how it feels

22:46

to drown lot of people

22:48

have first person accounts about near drowning

22:51

and they seem divided between peaceful brain

22:53

fog the white light shines brighter

22:56

and clawing was terrified way through terrible

22:58

suffocation i mention

23:00

that drowning as away some people and their lives

23:04

brian looks at me hard for

23:06

you kidding me

23:07

it's called know

23:12

in the depth of

23:13

google wormholes for end of life

23:15

for assisted suicide for euthanasia

23:18

for terminal illness and for making end

23:20

of life choices in august i

23:22

finally find dignitas

23:24

the swiss organization which even a foreigner

23:27

can apply for an accompanying suicide

23:29

if you meet their criteria

23:32

some mind have medical records

23:34

supporting this have ten thousand dollars

23:36

to commit and be sufficiently mobile

23:39

to get of the outskirts of zurich

23:42

for twenty nineteen stoney creek

23:45

appointed dignitas

23:47

is pretty much my second job now getting

23:50

medical records in the distant past

23:52

an autobiographical essay from brian

23:55

current dental records his birth certificate

23:58

that every mistake i make up costing

24:00

us two weeks and the thing

24:03

that takes up so much time as time as

24:05

note on a farm from the neurologist that

24:07

describes brian is clinically depressed

24:10

there's no that's exactly

24:12

the thing that didn't notice will not support

24:15

have to find a psychiatrist tools

24:16

if i the prime it's all of dignitas

24:18

his criteria

24:22

ryan is a certain kind of c o for

24:24

this project he doesn't wanna participate

24:27

in discussions below his pay grade he

24:29

doesn't wanna overseer troubling are puzzling

24:31

discussions he , want any

24:33

bad news he doesn't want any unsolved

24:36

problems presented and regular progress

24:38

reports are appreciated appreciated

24:40

meeting said last more than ten minutes occasionally

24:44

when we had occasionally when bump of which is aware

24:46

he says this is crazy it's my

24:48

life i see get to decide how to end

24:52

most days he seems to feel that i've got the situation

24:54

well in hand that the end is coming

24:56

to soon certainly but not right

24:58

around the corner not before we can do sushi

25:01

and a movie many more times that

25:03

nothing bad will happen in the us which

25:06

will unfold as we expect this

25:09

is not true that nothing bad will happen

25:12

therefore not comforting to me the

25:14

leaves me quite alone with reality the

25:17

way he feels is exactly what i

25:19

want for him

25:22

hawking with a friend i went about

25:24

the american healthcare system

25:26

our refusal to let people die dignified

25:29

and comfortable death the money made

25:31

are suffering the doctors unable

25:33

to face their limits and meet the needs of their

25:36

patients nobody can

25:38

talk about it i say nobody since know

25:40

what they're doing there's ,

25:42

no treatment the most advanced

25:44

alzheimer's research in the world says it's

25:46

fucking blueberries get enough

25:49

fucking sleep

25:51

my friend nods

25:58

the november twenty nineteen

25:59

stoney creek it's

26:02

the day before thanksgiving and dignitas

26:04

tells us we now have the

26:05

additional greenlight this

26:07

is because we have been working toward since august

26:10

brian hugged me

26:12

hard because we have accomplished the thing we

26:14

wanted to accomplish and done it to

26:16

the and he loves teamwork

26:18

and then the light changes and dems and

26:21

i am in the world without him in

26:23

this is clearly the world

26:25

going on without him me alone in the kitchen

26:28

and him not next to me the

26:30

crime each other's arms and without speaking

26:32

we go right up to bed for a nap at eleven

26:34

am and only come down and

26:36

the kids come through the door ready to start

26:39

thanksgiving print

26:41

after dropping things i'd

26:43

the ceramic tile weights onto the kitchen

26:45

floor

26:46

i drop an entire open bottle of

26:48

corn syrup into a bowl of butter and eggs

26:51

i bring the toast actually

26:53

set one pie one fire in the oven

26:55

and quadro

26:56

the amount of bourbon and the other so

26:58

that no one who is now

26:59

the kentucky drunk could eat

27:04

thanksgiving is done christmas

27:07

is coming and so is my mother in

27:09

law ryan and

27:11

i already knew a lot about all simers

27:13

from my mother in law's best friend of fifty

27:15

years

27:17

though an yvonne's best friend was

27:19

and and to brian a regular dinner

27:21

guest formidably well dressed

27:23

in the nancy reagan mold a great golfer

27:26

a devoted philanthropist to causes

27:28

i reviled and my mother in

27:30

law's boon companion for movies

27:33

dinner and drinks at the club

27:35

he had descended into all simon's these last

27:37

two years as a fun and express

27:41

for , complained about the cleaning lady then

27:43

she complained about her occasional guess

27:46

then she complained about her son son

27:48

she complained that valuables will be moved

27:51

to odd places and probably stolen

27:53

then she could no longer navigate not

27:55

even on roads she driven for sixty years

27:58

then she became violent

27:59

cheerful afraid of the terrible

28:02

real and imaginary forces beyond her

28:04

control and , she didn't have

28:06

the capacity to behave well the communal

28:08

dining room where dress appropriately for the

28:10

yoga class or even

28:12

to keep yourself clean and get along with her

28:14

health care aide then

28:16

her son moved her into a memory care unit

28:19

and she still new my mother in law and

28:21

weeping it every visit better friend

28:23

to take her home

28:27

yvonne shared every detail of her dear friends

28:29

to climb with brian who took note

28:32

i love my mother in law ryan

28:35

often quoted a favorite saying of hers

28:37

we're not here for a long time we're here for

28:39

a good time you can imagine

28:42

how often he said that i

28:44

hadn't said anything to yvonne over the phone

28:47

now i stand outside her bedroom door

28:49

on our second floor until floor until bustling

28:52

sound i knock

28:54

and she lets me in she's already

28:56

nicely put together

28:58

sit on

28:59

beside her and tell her about our plan

29:01

with dignity

29:03

she pulls away

29:03

the me and wipes her eyes

29:05

the my weight with my hands

29:08

i don't wanna scene but if there is one i

29:10

wanted to happen while brian is still asleep

29:14

then she says

29:15

i am so relieved i

29:17

realize that last night i

29:19

was praying about this and praying all night

29:22

and i realize that what i prayed for was that

29:24

he would not have to

29:25

friends joanne does i'm

29:27

shocked that i'm so relieved but

29:30

i am

29:31

we hold hands and cry and

29:33

she says that i was a gift to her son

29:36

and i throw myself in her arms as

29:38

is she is my own mother

29:46

december twenty nineteen stoney

29:49

creek

29:51

i'm practicing being a widow preparing

29:54

myself to do things alone taking

29:56

down the strings of lights by myself listening

29:59

to britney how

29:59

it and having a snack it

30:02

is about as much like actual widowhood

30:04

as are granddaughter i the making assist

30:07

and waving at overhead saying ferociously

30:10

when i do like this i am magic and

30:12

you cannot catch me

30:20

monday january twenty seventh

30:22

twenty twenty zurich

30:25

we have an appointment doctor g at our hotel

30:28

as i understand it doctor jay is both

30:30

our guide through the process and process and

30:33

speed

30:34

the friend of a friend who brought her father with

30:36

brain cancer to dignitas

30:38

told me that was very important to pry open

30:41

the hotel room door showing that

30:43

he's in charge of the process i

30:45

tell brian this and he nods but

30:47

i can tell he's not gonna jump up at the first knock

30:51

ryan is not someone who russia's period

30:53

to host at any gathering we've ever

30:56

had lovell being the

30:58

guest and he makes up for it by doing a ton

31:00

of dishes after i

31:02

don't know how to make sure he answers the door

31:05

or even if it's important i

31:07

just keep saying the doctors gonna knock on our

31:09

hotel room door i'm

31:11

also worried about etiquette

31:13

dr expect a cup of tea does

31:16

he look like the grim reaper know

31:18

and

31:20

the doctor does knock on the door and i almost

31:22

scream brian strolls

31:24

over to the door and as is most amiable

31:27

and pleasant brian self

31:29

we used to say the brian could talk to anyone

31:32

he could make small talk with a stump and

31:34

in the end that stumps would be hugging brine the

31:36

by thanking him for a great evening and

31:38

inviting us all to the next stumped get together

31:43

dr g is a small man with large

31:46

lovely mournful eyes will

31:48

, hands and brian and doctor jay sit

31:51

across from each other other asked

31:53

dr gee if i can stay for the conversation

31:55

and he looked surprised he

31:57

says gently that of course i should stay

31:59

as the

31:59

all concerns me as well i

32:02

began crying and both men look at me kindly

32:06

pour myself a glass of water to

32:09

, t she says that's

32:11

my father's name and i feel lightly bless

32:14

somehow and i know that i have lost my lost

32:17

asked about our flight he

32:19

mentions consigning lightly just

32:21

on person and what i can only describe

32:23

as the jewish fashion of complaining while

32:25

assuring us at the beginning and end of each sense

32:28

that he is certainly not complaining that

32:30

he had to come so late at night because he was

32:32

at a concert in the city and it

32:34

was most convenient coming after the concert

32:36

because he lives by the lake and doesn't come into

32:39

town every day since we chose

32:41

to stay in the old town here town make to make

32:43

trip just to see us not that

32:45

he's complaining i

32:47

beg him to take a glass of water and he does

32:50

probably so i'll stop crying

32:53

the open the folder and says to brian after

32:56

i read your application i knew i would see you

32:58

but i didn't think you'd be

32:59

the

33:00

brian says it's not a big window

33:03

i mean no one knows how long they have

33:05

a much time they have to make this choice

33:09

dr g looks like he might argue but instead

33:11

he says

33:12

you're absolutely right

33:15

the to bring in

33:16

i once is several times many

33:19

times if you are sure that

33:21

this is what you wish to do

33:23

i want you to understand that at any time

33:25

at any time between now and the final

33:27

act

33:28

you are free to change her mind and not

33:30

do this

33:32

i hope you will not do this he says softly

33:35

and brian nods

33:37

though doctor g says are

33:39

you sure that you wish to and your life on thursday

33:42

brian says that he is sure i

33:45

start crying again and thank god both

33:48

men ignore me again doctor

33:50

g smiles and nods seems

33:54

to me he says pleasantly holding up the

33:56

folder you don't believe in anything mr

33:58

ameche brian land and

34:00

says i believe in a lot

34:01

the things or religion in the afterlife

34:03

or not among them

34:05

well doctor g says chuckling

34:07

you'll find out before i will let

34:09

me know brian smile

34:13

dr geez tone changes

34:16

let me tell you what will happen you

34:18

will arrive at our apartment building apartment building suburbs

34:20

zurich in the morning by ten am

34:23

the not delete you'll

34:25

be greeted by two people from dignity

34:28

they will invite you in

34:30

you can take your time he says there

34:33

will be no russian there

34:35

is some paperwork there are chocolates

34:38

they will give you an anti an medic he says

34:40

he says will not vomit

34:42

the have up to an hour after that to make

34:44

your choice by drinking the drink if

34:47

you need more time they will administer

34:50

the anti america again and

34:52

again you will have about an hour after that

34:54

to drink the drink

34:56

after you drank yes it

34:58

is a little bitter he says and i wonder

35:00

how he knows after

35:02

you drink it you will fall into a light sleeper

35:05

then a deep sleep then

35:08

it will be over mrs

35:10

amici you can sit with him for a long

35:12

time i'm glad

35:14

he calls me mrs ameche

35:16

o'brien always gets a kick out of that

35:20

brian nods attentively dr

35:23

g says at any time

35:25

in this process you may change her mind right

35:27

now or thursday morning no

35:30

one will be surprised or distressed

35:32

will all be glad for you

35:35

i don't know why this would be perhaps

35:37

i would be glad to but only that meant

35:39

the spell is broken a my whole husband

35:41

was returned to me and to himself

35:44

and his last year's turned out to have been just

35:46

a terrible test one poisoned

35:48

apple after another to prove the my

35:51

darling deserves the like he had before

35:55

brian shakes his head

35:57

i know what i'm doing he says this is

35:59

the right things

35:59

me

36:01

dr g nods i see that he says

36:03

but i will keep asking ryan

36:07

and i sit back down after his gone

36:10

i see the doctor g seem nice and brian

36:12

agrees brian says

36:15

it's going okay and i agree the

36:18

sleep side by side fingertips

36:20

touching

36:25

there is day january thirtieth twenty

36:27

twenty zurich

36:30

the night passes and the next morning we have

36:32

a car takes us to fast upon where

36:34

dignitas has it's apartment or house

36:37

i couldn't really tell it's

36:39

a residential structure and an industrial

36:41

park who nice women

36:43

in nice clothes sweaters and slacks

36:46

i mean i saw that an effort was made that in throw

36:49

on a sweats and come over greet

36:51

us

36:52

the addressed to the occasional

36:53

they're pretty enough across the river and they take

36:55

it seriously i

36:58

have never been treated with such a seamless

37:00

the attentive tax they

37:02

walk us in up a few steps to

37:04

the door and i see a snow covered

37:06

garden the kind of gesture toward a garden

37:09

that you'd find in industrial park and

37:11

into a large odd immaculate

37:14

room the sitting in every

37:16

corner to small armchairs

37:18

a large pleather recliner up leather

37:20

sofa and a hospital bed as well

37:23

it dawned on me later that it's important

37:26

that everything that can be sat on or laid

37:28

down upon be washable in

37:31

the center of the room there's a table with several

37:33

chairs the ladies bring our

37:36

paperwork to the table and points out the

37:38

many bowls of chocolates they

37:40

with you all the steps which brine

37:42

and i can now both were size it

37:45

look at him closely and say

37:47

any time in this process including

37:49

after you drink the anti matter

37:51

you can choose not to do this

37:54

will be very supportive of you changing your

37:56

mind rest assured

37:58

we are assured

38:00

the only sign of reluctance on brian's part

38:02

is what he warned me about

38:04

the making conversation before taking

38:06

sodium pentobarbital he

38:09

said to me that he thought he might be inclined to

38:11

just bullshit around for awhile when the time

38:13

came to take it i know

38:15

i have to go he said i know i'm

38:17

going i'm ready

38:19

mack in a hurry

38:22

he doesn't hurry he drinks the

38:24

anti american gets comfortable on the couch

38:27

i sit next to him holding his hand but i

38:29

have to let it go because his gesturing

38:31

while storytelling the stories

38:33

are all about football i yale and his coach

38:36

com closer and i could tell them

38:38

with him

38:39

ryan and a friend winding up in jail

38:41

because the young dumb site in front

38:43

of the anchor bar and com close

38:46

a stern and forgiving bailing them out

38:49

brian , about quitting football because

38:51

he didn't get to play enough his first season

38:53

and com telling him that he carme

38:56

would let brian play when prime was good enough

38:58

and not before and brian

39:00

resolving to be good enough brian

39:03

father and com cosa playing handball

39:05

together one time his to father

39:09

cannot manage to look interested in

39:11

these stories because i'm not brian

39:14

, nothing about his life about

39:16

our lies about our love about

39:18

the children and grandchildren nothing

39:21

about the beautiful public housing he designs

39:23

and cared about so deeply or

39:26

the words the did for conservation and open

39:28

spaces or even and you

39:30

know i must be reaching here about

39:32

session but i do

39:34

try not to look like i'm in agony which

39:37

i am

39:39

the ladies wait in the back

39:40

chrome a kitchen i think and

39:42

after about forty five minutes they come out again

39:46

they tell us that the anti america has now

39:48

worn off and a frame wishes to continue

39:50

i do he says he will have to take

39:52

it again they say

39:54

you can take your time and i roll my eyes

39:57

with this of course he will he always does i think

39:59

as if we aren't the other room on

40:01

some other occasions

40:03

and then i remember where i am and i am

40:05

ashamed of myself

40:07

brian smile slightly

40:09

the times your plane he says and

40:11

i have never felt so bad about being me

40:13

and my entire life

40:16

the take the anti a medic

40:17

again and the ladies put an airplane pillow

40:19

around his neck ryan

40:21

falls silent and now i long for

40:23

the football stories i

40:25

take both of his hands and he lets me

40:29

i love you i love you i love you i say

40:31

i love you so much i

40:34

, you too he says and he drinks sodium

40:36

pentobarbital i kiss

40:38

him all over his handsome weary space

40:41

and he lets me

40:44

it is impossible to think about the next twenty

40:47

minutes

40:48

i keep my eyes and hands on him as

40:50

if i'll forget what is like to breathe next

40:52

to him or feel his presence

40:54

i don't not for a minute i

40:57

here's breathing when breathing go to sleep and

40:59

i feel his body heat when i wake up he

41:03

falls asleep in my hand and his head

41:05

falls back a little on the neck pillow because

41:07

purpose i now understand he's

41:10

breathing changes and as the last time

41:12

i will hear him sleeping breathing deeply

41:14

and steadily the way he has done lying

41:16

beside me from was fifteen years

41:20

i hold his hand

41:22

i can still feel it's weight and warmth

41:25

the skin color changes from ready to

41:27

pale pink

41:29

i sit there and sit there as as some

41:31

other thing will now happen

41:33

the is quite hell and i see that

41:35

he has gone from this world

41:39

i said

41:39

the his hand for a long time

41:42

get up and wrap my arms around him and kiss

41:44

his forehead as as he is my baby

41:47

at last gone to sleep this

41:49

he is my brave boy going on a long

41:51

journey miles and miles

41:54

of not

41:59

the

41:59

much else to do

42:01

the ladies would like been ago before the swiss

42:03

please come

42:04

it is simpler they say

42:07

it doesn't feel that we have done some

42:09

the illegal but i can tell

42:11

that it would be better perhaps better

42:13

for me for dignitas for

42:15

me to not be around while a swiss

42:17

policemen identifies brian's body

42:19

that's what his passport and

42:21

dental records or for as i understand

42:24

it

42:25

i call an uber and hugged ladies

42:28

i head to the airport

42:31

the zurich airport i sit

42:33

in the fancy lounge and i look around for faces

42:35

people watching since

42:37

the moment of brian's death i find

42:40

most people especially men

42:42

disgusting not ,

42:44

unappealing but disgusting

42:47

like yesterday's oatmeal like

42:49

eels in a bowl fine

42:51

heterosexual couples dismaying

42:55

in the lounge i feel like an alien

42:57

examining tears of earthlings what

43:00

is the meaning of that how

43:02

could a creature like that the that the other

43:04

creature may how can

43:06

one recognize choice in these random movements

43:19

the timber sixteenth two thousand and

43:21

seven

43:22

durham connecticut

43:24

our wedding day

43:26

my mother isn't there to see it and that

43:28

is my only greece last

43:31

time she was in the hospital brian dropped me off

43:33

on went to park my mother waved

43:35

me into her room and just me

43:37

the brain coming up she said

43:39

when i said yes she practically push me off

43:41

the bed and began firmly and plus li directing

43:44

me and how best to help her

43:45

the jacket comb lush and

43:48

lipstick please

43:49

spray

43:50

hurry please

43:52

by the time brine came to her door she was

43:54

in full greer garson and sent me to

43:56

get to for both of them oh

43:58

she would set over breakfast

43:59

than our wedding

44:00

hey isn't this lovely

44:02

aren't you gorgeous

44:04

then he the handsomest thing

44:07

friends from all pieces of our lives are there

44:10

some neighbors who disapproved of our scandalous

44:12

beginnings and come around

44:14

we'd both been with other people we

44:16

didn't well we fell

44:18

in love and left our partners

44:21

we didn't slink out of town and we load

44:23

like radium

44:26

our minister speaks wisely and

44:28

warmly and i'm delighted but i barely

44:31

listen

44:32

brian takes my hands and i cannot see

44:34

anything except to say

44:36

he says i prepared

44:39

and then he squeezes my hands tightly and

44:41

he begins to cry i

44:43

love you so much he says that's all i

44:45

can say i love you so

44:48

you so and i will love you every

44:50

day of my life

44:52

then he says quietly your

44:55

turn

44:56

i say

44:58

middle aged women are supposed to look for the safe

45:00

harbor for the port and the storm

45:03

of life

45:04

we are supposed to look for the com and

45:06

the comfortable

45:08

you are the port in the storm and

45:10

you are the storm and you're

45:13

the see you , the rocks

45:15

and the beach and the ways you

45:17

are the sunrise and sunset and

45:19

all of the light in between i

45:22

think i have more to say but i can't we

45:25

are holding hands pressed against each other

45:27

holding each other up

45:29

i whispered to him every

45:32

day of my life

45:34

then he whispers tummy

45:36

every day of my life

45:49

amy bloom some of the audio

45:52

you heard of different the official audio book

45:54

of in love by amy bloom narrated

45:56

by the author courtesy of the penguin

45:58

random house audi [unk]

45:59

group

46:01

if you happen to be having thoughts of suicide please reach

46:03

out to the national suicide prevention

46:05

lifeline nine eight

46:07

eight or the crisis text i'd

46:10

there for that you text talk to a

46:12

okay to seven four one

46:14

seven four one

46:16

coming up

46:18

the jokes that are not entirely jokes

46:21

that a mother tells about mother daughter that

46:23

is in a minute from chicago public radio when

46:26

our program continues

46:29

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46:31

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46:33

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46:35

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46:38

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46:40

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46:54

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46:56

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47:27

my love word

47:31

mack and life i'm ira glass today's program

47:33

and the earth there is about a very

47:36

upper limits what you do for somebody

47:38

love the people going way further

47:40

and usually see their family members we

47:43

arrived at to of our program at to

47:46

how many do so

47:48

years in college the tuna moms

47:50

are not a really really cause talking

47:52

and texting everyday by the most mundane stuff

47:55

the gathering for lunch

47:57

the deal with a big stuff too

47:59

the

47:59

we are each other's only people to

48:02

be honest like she doesn't have anyone else and i

48:04

don't have anyone else like we don't have a lot of extended

48:06

family

48:07

she's married and years now

48:08

any job i

48:10

think that would not sorry died

48:13

she

48:15

married

48:16

they don't along really well my

48:18

god is very traditional parenting

48:21

decisions are made solely by her

48:24

and supported by my dad

48:27

my mom and i are like our own little

48:30

like you you

48:32

the reasons area went away to college three thousand

48:35

miles from her mom we've been fighting more

48:37

than ever mainly ,

48:40

because school stanford university for the

48:42

first the so he realized

48:44

the kids her age appears

48:47

when making decisions even big ones

48:49

without insulting their moms

48:52

which was a huge i mean dot

48:54

really took me about i was like wow

48:55

israel could make your own choices college

48:58

without him on mount ,

49:00

of the art painting writing writing

49:03

essay prose is published in the new york new from

49:06

arizona is like to serve a

49:08

little that

49:09

one class will fun lead sign take

49:11

something it's it's okay i live the dot

49:14

but the overwhelming focus needs

49:16

to be on something science

49:19

take an engineering matt that's gonna

49:21

lead to a job

49:23

and before this degree that is going to

49:25

cost us a bomb and

49:28

justify being at stanford like

49:30

oh she's seeking an english class that like

49:32

her professor loved her then

49:34

he told are you that you're such a strong

49:36

writer i hope we don't lose you to that them bureau

49:39

be bus and when she told me

49:41

that i was at oh my god these people are

49:43

everywhere have a sort

49:45

of

49:45

he people are trying to ruin your child's

49:47

life

49:48

they're trying to ruin so light

49:50

of what is happening

49:52

coming to say they go there before we get further

49:54

like my mom would definitely

49:56

relate to this my mom was so sure

49:58

that i should be a doctor

49:59

and then when i went into radio

50:02

and broadcasting she was so

50:04

disappointed and she continued to

50:06

, me there's still time to go to medical school

50:09

like i had my own national radio

50:11

show show was on the air for five

50:13

years and i remember it was finally i was

50:15

forty one years old and

50:18

it was only because i went on to david letterman for

50:20

the first time to promote the so

50:22

that after the letterman appearance my

50:24

mom said like okay you un

50:27

like you don't have to go to medical school

50:29

piper that entire time she was very

50:31

since she was very i think i

50:33

have a lot to relate to his lawyer she's

50:36

like why i'm doing this thing it doesn't make any money

50:38

what you would white what you can be a doctor

50:40

like you'd smart you could be a doctor

50:43

listen

50:45

to the me

50:46

the wanna see it as a part of me right

50:48

now that think you should be dmg

50:50

the

50:59

maybe party urgent you are

51:01

earnest and up comedian

51:03

then again it's kind of a rising star it

51:05

now the cylinder for comedy special

51:07

she's huge on tic toc with runs

51:09

in new york city is the most famous headliner still

51:12

and , what makes her act so unusual is

51:15

that it is happily and was get away from

51:17

her point of view is an immigrant mom born

51:20

in india years he

51:22

is telling an audience was something she truly did

51:24

not know that college in america tells

51:26

america have got to stanford

51:27

on top of the was biggest

51:30

scam

52:01

he does the audience about the fun non computer

52:03

class that are daughter wanted to take stanford

52:40

the entire act as this tricky thing

52:42

of embracing every stereotype

52:45

of the immigrant indian mom while

52:47

also kind of our winking

52:49

at the audience like i know this

52:51

is over the top i know how funny this is

52:54

she does is bit about telling zoya not

52:56

become friends with kids at stanford and my poor

52:58

down the wrong path

53:13

president or the joke and really

53:15

happened at a cafe one day as

53:17

she told zoya the kinds of majors as

53:19

you might look for which makes friends at school

53:22

you know i was joking

53:24

i mean when she first said it

53:26

right job i was like mom you are so

53:28

hilarious and she was like why

53:30

are you laughing

53:32

though

53:32

the managed to get onstage

53:34

and it's real

53:36

the get were him on sign it is coming

53:38

from an all this some background to

53:40

be the pivotal moment in scientists ice

53:42

was inches fourteen i can india for

53:45

mom died and it's completely crushed

53:47

her dad china , the youngest

53:49

of four kids and he didn't want to keep raising

53:51

one last child the get

53:53

married off soon as possible

53:55

and i didn't wanna get married i

53:58

was that kid was so cute

53:59

them loved education and wanted

54:02

to read about the world and and

54:04

also i was heavily influenced by american

54:06

pop culture i read

54:08

archie comics archie watched three's

54:11

company you know that he lisa

54:12

of course

54:14

i resent know it's married there

54:16

are just living with everything so

54:19

the note a marriage the dagger

54:21

drought

54:22

the had to make runway in the world remember

54:24

standing out standing the rain front of us embassy

54:26

to would not accept not accept to come here

54:29

it's finally made it here got a law degree

54:32

placed an ad to find exactly the kind of

54:34

husband she wanted which is a horror story and

54:36

, then she's devoted herself completely

54:39

two or three kids to get them to a life

54:41

that is safe and secure safe

54:44

very unlike her on teenage life

54:47

the idea is the oldest the pilot

54:49

project everyday it is

54:51

meant like just years of math camps

54:53

and tutoring every summer and volunteer jobs that

54:55

are mom arranged and after school activities are

54:58

you know to get a real good college and

55:00

ultimately and safe comfortable job

55:02

in tech or engineering or maybe medicine

55:06

the great wednesday was at home and high

55:08

school

55:09

the now stanford

55:11

rated his plan or just everywhere

55:14

what are the biggest threat the american idea

55:16

that a college

55:18

it should explore

55:19

the classes they enjoy find what makes them

55:21

happy

55:22

the parrot the

55:25

happiness of my child is a last thing

55:27

on my mind

55:28

again jewelers as like punchline

55:30

it's totally over the top

55:32

the also

55:33

you're not getting

55:34

right now is the emily

55:36

eating candy makes a good happy but that

55:38

don't give it to them

55:40

do you feel she's being tricked into thinking happiness

55:42

is important

55:43

the they people in america yeah

55:46

absolutely hundred percent

55:49

and you presented settings on it has to a bunch of my questions

55:52

does she know what's best for her family yes

55:55

hundred percent that she the your children

55:57

were thank her one day for forcing the hard decisions

55:59

for the right

55:59

that they might not like just now

56:02

one hundred percent

56:04

there it is a minds earnest still trying to control

56:06

zoya his life from the other side of the country

56:08

to a remarkable extent the

56:10

great since she tax the are a enjoy

56:13

his dorm to check on joy is going

56:15

to make sure she's working the

56:17

various people that she knows or meets

56:20

calls lawyer to give encouraging pet dogs

56:23

the great a live in computers are medicine is

56:25

gonna be to consoles was i on

56:27

pretty much every aspect of her life this

56:30

on impulse control her daughter is so

56:32

instincts out and thorough that

56:34

after i interviewed zona czar know

56:36

cause zoya who i had an interview just

56:39

as with instructions with instructions to

56:41

say to me

56:41

you just said she

56:44

just said when they ask you do control me

56:47

you should say now

56:48

wait but isn't telling

56:50

you to tell us that she has and controlling

56:53

rather controlling

56:54

i think that that's the thing about my mom

56:56

is she doesn't think she's hypocritical

56:58

because it all comes from a place of just pure

57:01

law then like and he gave

57:03

me a little lines of explanations

57:05

of what i said say and what i'm

57:08

stories i should towel and i was

57:10

just kind of like yeah those are good ideas and

57:12

she was like sorry are you going to do it and i was like you know i might emperor

57:14

my eyes and she's like no improvisation

57:16

like we need to play on

57:17

query if somebody is not

57:20

sticking with a plan he arrived

57:22

at stanford zoe has been pushing back on a mom

57:24

more than she ever has the

57:26

biggest thing i disagree about the ,

57:28

serious battlefront and this war over how much

57:30

control zeina gets of israel's

57:33

life is what classes what city

57:37

the diet was your mom's voice in your head when

57:39

you're picking your classes for answer showed

57:41

just how much your mom's voice is in her head

57:43

one hundred percent

57:45

that last year when say was a freshman remanded

57:47

to think very unusual for sanford parent

57:50

he sat in on so is you meetings

57:52

with her academic advisor

57:54

mostly working off camera and

57:56

making her wishes known desire

57:58

sometimes began

58:00

the remember is one conferences with adviser

58:03

i think the most embarrassing part

58:05

of the call was made mom

58:07

saying

58:08

the word only supposed to take computer

58:10

so you should only

58:12

take computer science and then

58:14

i think what was so embarrassing was she

58:16

had set up right after i

58:18

thought on this whole tangent about how

58:20

i loved learning about lot

58:22

in an ancient cultures and

58:24

then she was like

58:25

that's why i need the computer

58:28

science

58:29

almost as if she hadn't heard what i'd said

58:31

and the academic advisor with

58:34

drop so

58:36

embarrassing

58:38

i think she's thinking all like typical

58:40

immigrant mom wants to control like

58:42

indian daughter to do stuff

58:45

i just a me because we're not even

58:47

a stereo typically cultural family

58:49

i just was the worst feeling i didn't want to be

58:51

seen as weak and i don't was the is be seen

58:53

as some i'd worked so hard to create

58:56

this idea that wasn't just indian

58:58

grow does does you know

59:00

that's so important to me i want to be complex

59:02

and interesting and have seen as

59:04

more than that and i feel like i'm caught

59:07

in this like mismatch of culture is a mismatch

59:09

of understanding of what education looks like

59:11

and to be clear she doesn't think

59:13

her mom is entirely wrong when

59:15

, on says i'm paying for this why

59:18

shouldn't i get to pick your courses part

59:20

of sorry thanks again why should she be spending

59:22

her mom's money to take an english class

59:25

from mom doesn't bite isn't

59:27

that selfish of her

59:30

they just out messy and complicated

59:32

out this is between them i need to tell you this next

59:35

story sawyer her

59:37

mom so well the city

59:39

forceful forward looking kid that

59:41

zoya the reason that her mom

59:43

sarna became a standup

59:45

comedian and all four

59:48

years ago when she was sixteen do

59:50

i saw how unhappy her mom was

59:52

the train to be a lawyer but didn't like it and stop

59:54

and shattered kids didn't i'm raising the kids

59:56

for years

59:58

there's any

59:59

but i couldn't figure out what to do

1:00:02

i couldn't figure out what i should do and

1:00:04

she said to me mom all my friends

1:00:07

love hanging out with you because they think you're funny

1:00:10

why don't you don't comedy

1:00:12

what's she talking about who's

1:00:14

can make them and much to see and whatever

1:00:16

even gonna see i would bomb many people

1:00:18

do

1:00:19

and she is

1:00:21

mom i really think you should do

1:00:23

stand up comedy and i thought she had lost

1:00:26

her mind

1:00:27

much fear

1:00:30

going and you santa comedy i mean

1:00:32

it took me six months

1:00:34

have been like mom you can do it man you can do it you're so

1:00:36

good at this point all my friends have one it

1:00:38

comes to my house because she was just so funny

1:00:40

a lively she just had such

1:00:43

a guess i'm her all

1:00:45

always for answer was like oh i'll just be a secretary

1:00:47

or somewhere or i go to law degree like i could go

1:00:49

exercise my water i could go practice law was mom

1:00:52

you hated practicing law like you

1:00:54

love telling stories

1:00:56

there are others months to convince her mom

1:00:58

that he should do it you have

1:01:00

now it is not lost on sawyer

1:01:03

the didn't exactly what she's asking her mom to

1:01:05

at her do

1:01:06

the college

1:01:07

the i keep telling her that where i'm like mom

1:01:09

like the reason you have your career

1:01:11

is because i said do you laws and she was

1:01:13

a job you should do we do love like that's too scary

1:01:16

yeah

1:01:20

ask your mom about this she says it it is different

1:01:22

for her that brasilia

1:01:24

just a comedienne the family was financially

1:01:26

secure they were fine

1:01:28

the way it doesn't have that amounts you have she needs

1:01:31

to invent a life for herself when she supporting

1:01:33

herself and some humanities

1:01:35

degree a job as a writer a job

1:01:37

in the arts

1:01:38

i mean it's it's a very

1:01:40

unstable unknown bad you

1:01:42

don't know what's next

1:01:44

this heart rate up at that ceiling aside

1:01:46

given her past

1:01:48

can i say from my experience of my parents

1:01:51

the grub without money and thought that

1:01:53

way to professional jobs in the middle class

1:01:56

i'm really not sure there's anything that joy i can say designer

1:01:59

the diner does

1:01:59

the

1:02:00

the committee killer

1:02:02

them as like the parents did to get a job

1:02:04

creating a safe life as i

1:02:06

as you got scared the way they are about how

1:02:08

badly things go

1:02:10

the live in fear my

1:02:13

husband and i she doesn't and for

1:02:15

that i'm grateful if she's very american

1:02:17

in that way that she's

1:02:19

a little bit fearless she's of whatever happens

1:02:22

we'll figure it out but my husband my husband

1:02:24

are immigrants a little live in fear

1:02:27

the designers and trusted lawyer to pick around

1:02:29

future

1:02:30

mccullough i don't see her as

1:02:32

a person who's driven

1:02:34

by the need to survive

1:02:37

around it i swear

1:02:39

wow

1:02:40

i need some i have

1:02:43

a harder

1:02:44

the responded on

1:02:45

fan you better they've never verbal

1:02:48

ageless with that

1:02:49

you're cheating said her advice is better than what you

1:02:51

think you want for yourself cause

1:02:54

she's more scared for you than you are

1:02:56

she's worried about you surviving

1:02:59

why do decisions have to be made

1:03:01

out of fear all

1:03:03

, the people that i look up to

1:03:05

as like role models all

1:03:07

made their careers out of something they just

1:03:10

love to do even my mom

1:03:12

like why can't i be

1:03:14

motivated by dot instead of being motivated

1:03:17

by the are constantly constantly

1:03:19

i think see i was she trusted herself as

1:03:22

a parent a little bit too like she really raised

1:03:24

me right and it's all the air everything

1:03:27

is sitting air everything brain so i just wish he knew

1:03:29

the us and it could trust not

1:03:31

a little

1:03:31

later the hearing that

1:03:33

he took my mom toes forty one years

1:03:35

old to fully accepted of them with my life and

1:03:38

are harsh hurt

1:03:40

you don't want to wait that long

1:04:12

that's what else she was produced by diane will

1:04:14

on the poker produce back to original

1:04:16

music cracked one amy bloom story by

1:04:18

found objects and j looked in the music

1:04:20

supervision by carl westman and rape virtual

1:04:22

at dirty soup and stone nelson

1:04:25

people , put her show together today include my

1:04:27

commentate andrea what by casado can

1:04:30

see how a hundred drop it was valid kipnis

1:04:32

catherine raimondo not a raymond by and

1:04:34

memory of list of ship christopher [unk] tower

1:04:36

and matt tyranny are managing editor sarah

1:04:38

abdur rahman our senior editor david catch the

1:04:40

bomb or executive editor manual buried

1:04:43

it's our production fellow his last week with us michelle

1:04:45

navarro this has been so lovely you

1:04:47

are such a good writer we all hope to have you

1:04:49

on the air here again especially thanks day

1:04:51

to brett wean wean de carli

1:04:53

and andrew francis our website

1:04:56

this american life dot org where you can

1:04:58

stream or archive of over seven hundred fifty episodes

1:05:00

for absolutely for i said

1:05:02

there's tons of other stuff there to links to our tv

1:05:05

show you know we have a television show videos

1:05:08

favorites list again this american

1:05:10

life dot org this american life

1:05:12

is over the public radio stations by p r

1:05:14

acts the public acts exchange

1:05:17

things they always do a programs co-founder of [unk]

1:05:19

amount of to you know he still you the day

1:05:22

migrant as a little boy years ago when

1:05:24

he wrote down the word hug then

1:05:27

, the letter e to the end

1:05:29

the was done by his creation