0:00

I first met Rene

0:00

Bowen as a guest on her podcast,

0:04

which has the amazing name of

0:04

tried and true with a dash of

0:08

Woo. And I loved that because as

0:08

I got to know her, and as I sort

0:13

of started to see where our

0:13

thinking around the business of

0:18

photography intersected, I loved

0:18

the perspective that she

0:22

brought, which was very much

0:22

rooted in science. This is

0:25

someone who holds certifications

0:25

in NLP and brain training and

0:29

neuro encoding, and hypnosis,

0:29

all of which, you know, as much

0:33

as they can sound will have a

0:33

fair amount of scientific

0:37

foundation. She also has an

0:37

undergraduate degree in

0:41

psychology, but she, she takes

0:41

this perspective, that just

0:46

holds space for the way, the

0:46

ways in which our brains impact

0:52

our businesses, subconsciously.

0:52

So when I asked her to come on

0:57

the podcast, we decided that we

0:57

were going to talk about this

1:01

idea of unconscious programming,

1:01

how, by necessity, we learn from

1:07

a very young age, how to

1:07

navigate the world. But we all

1:11

learn that in a particular way

1:11

that is dependent upon where we

1:15

are, what our circumstances are,

1:15

who the people in our lives are,

1:19

who are influencing us. And some

1:19

of those messages are helpful,

1:23

some of them are very harmful.

1:23

And as adults, we'd spend a lot

1:29

of time trying to kind of get at

1:29

what it is that is helping us

1:34

and what is not helping us or we

1:34

do that if we are being

1:38

intentional about it. And so,

1:38

Renee is a coach in the

1:42

photography space, she works

1:42

with a lot of photographers who

1:45

are feeling those, you know,

1:45

sticking points that friction in

1:51

their businesses, where

1:51

oftentimes some sort of script

1:55

that has been running in the

1:55

background of their lives since

1:58

early on, is sabotaging their

1:58

efforts to run a profitable

2:03

sustainable business. If you

2:03

have ever had feelings of guilt,

2:07

when you go to send somebody an

2:07

invoice this, this is part of

2:11

your experience. And so I am

2:11

excited to share this

2:15

conversation with you. It is a

2:15

little more woo than is standard

2:20

on this can't be that hard. But

2:20

I think that's really

2:22

refreshing. Sometimes it's great

2:22

to get these other perspectives.

2:26

I know that you know, there are

2:26

enough people out there

2:29

listening to this show that we

2:29

all need to hear this in

2:32

different ways. And Renee really

2:32

brings some great expertise and

2:36

insight to this conversation. So

2:36

I know you're going to enjoy it.

2:41

Welcome to this can't be that

2:41

hard. My name is Annemie Tonken.

2:45

And I help photographers run

2:45

profitable, sustainable

2:48

businesses that they love. Each

2:48

week on the podcast, I cover

2:52

simple, actionable strategies

2:52

and systems that photographers

2:56

at every level of experience can

2:56

use to earn more money in a more

2:59

sustainable way. Running a

2:59

photography business doesn't

3:03

have to be that hard. You can do

3:03

it. And I can show you how. Rene

3:11

Ebola and welcome to this can't

3:11

be that hard. I am very excited

3:14

for our conversation today. This

3:14

is sort of a different one. It's

3:19

it's nerdy in its own special

3:19

like whoo corner of the world.

3:24

But I think that this is going

3:24

to be a really good one. Let me

3:27

just start by having you sort of

3:27

tell anyone who doesn't know who

3:30

you are a little bit about

3:30

yourself. And then and then I

3:33

want to just dive straight into

3:33

kind of the definition that you

3:37

use for unconscious programming.

3:40

Yeah, I mean, we call it lots of different things. Right. So I'm Rene, Rene

3:42

Bo, and thanks for having me, by

3:45

the way, super excited to have

3:45

this chat with you. And I am a

3:50

photographer. I've been a

3:50

photographer for what feels like

3:52

many, many moons, many

3:52

lifetimes, right? And basically,

3:59

you know, professionally since

3:59

the early 2000s. And I

4:04

specialize in high school

4:04

seniors. I also do some branding

4:07

and headshots. I'm live in the

4:07

suburbs of Los Angeles. I'm

4:11

married to an actor, I have

4:11

three grown kids. So I built my

4:15

business when my kids were

4:15

really young. And that was quite

4:19

the journey. And over the last

4:19

few years, I have found my

4:23

roots. I have a bachelor's in

4:23

psychology. So I dove back into

4:28

that sort of side of it started

4:28

coaching. I got certified in a

4:32

lot of different life coaching

4:32

modalities. And so I run two

4:37

businesses. I'm still a full

4:37

time photographer and I also

4:41

coach photographers and

4:41

creatives of all types and I'm a

4:45

life coach as well as a business

4:45

coach. So I believe that we need

4:48

some strategy. We need some whoo

4:48

to make it all happen. Love

4:51

it, love it so

4:51

much. And I love that you've got

4:54

a background in psychology I

4:54

talk a lot about my major in

4:58

college was culture anthropology

4:58

but I was a double major and my

5:02

other major was in developmental

5:02

psychology and I, you know, it's

5:05

one of those both of those

5:05

actually, I always point to as

5:08

like, they're great for

5:08

everything and nothing at the

5:11

same time. Like not neither of

5:11

those and you know, psychology,

5:15

an undergraduate degree in

5:15

psychology doesn't, you know, we

5:19

write down a career path. But

5:19

man, does it ever impact

5:23

everything that we see out there

5:23

in the world, and then

5:26

everything we do as people, you

5:26

know, being able to have a

5:29

little bit of analytical

5:29

perspective on, you know, why

5:35

we're doing what we're doing, or

5:35

how we are putting out messages

5:39

or receiving messages can be so

5:39

so valuable, which is totally

5:43

why I am I'm like, jonesing, to

5:43

hear a little bit more about.

5:48

Yeah, about this topic that

5:48

we're chatting on today. Yeah,

5:51

no, I agree. It's, it's

5:51

like, well, first of all, I

5:56

always say that photography and

5:56

portrait photography is that

6:00

people job, yeah, people job. So

6:00

yes, we have to know what we're

6:04

doing. And we'd be good at what

6:04

we're doing. But so much of the

6:09

high tides experience, you know,

6:09

of a boutique experience,

6:12

especially because you are

6:12

creating relationships with

6:14

people. And so it really is

6:14

about navigating all these

6:18

personalities. And it definitely

6:18

came in handy with my kids. I

6:21

mean, I have a son with autism.

6:21

So, you know, I didn't realize

6:24

how impactful that degree was

6:24

going to be in my life. Yes, I

6:29

had plans of going back from my

6:29

master's, and then life took a

6:32

major detour. And I never did,

6:32

but it served me really well. So

6:37

I've always been interested in,

6:37

you know, all things,

6:41

unconscious mind. You know, how

6:41

we work, very analytical, I

6:47

think that those of us who are

6:47

analytical by nature, and

6:51

overthinker has probably are

6:51

just sort of naturally drawn to

6:56

psychology and self help. And

6:56

I've definitely been that

6:59

person, you know, I was that,

6:59

that, you know, woowoo person in

7:03

the early 90s, who was like,

7:03

very into all of this stuff

7:09

before, it felt like a lot of

7:09

people were, but I was in LA. So

7:12

it was a little bit more

7:12

mainstream here. But still, you

7:16

know. So it wasn't until I

7:16

started going back to school for

7:22

certifications in NLP, and

7:22

hypnosis that I really started

7:27

diving more into this concept of

7:27

unconscious programming. Because

7:31

yes, I've been a Tony Robbins

7:31

girl since the early 2000s. You

7:36

know, I've done many, many

7:36

programs. And there's a lot of

7:38

ways to package this, right?

7:38

Like, all the books out there,

7:43

like they're basically kind of

7:43

all about this, but they're

7:46

packaged in a way that it will

7:46

impact you. Right? It's just

7:50

like anything else. It's just

7:50

like being a photographer, I

7:54

feel like, Yes, I hear about it

7:54

all the time. And I'm sure you

7:57

do, too, about how saturated the

7:57

market is, but what makes you

8:00

you, and what's going to hit

8:00

your message, you know, to that

8:05

right person at the right time.

8:05

And that's really sort of like

8:08

that same vein, when we're

8:08

talking about self help self

8:11

development, and that whole

8:11

world. But for me, unconscious

8:15

programming really helps

8:15

simplify the reasons why we do

8:22

what we do. Because when we

8:22

really break it down into its

8:27

simplest terms, it's just a

8:27

survival mechanism that we

8:31

learned. And it was just part of

8:31

development, right? So zero to

8:37

age seven, our job is to soak in

8:37

all the information around us,

8:42

so that we can become a person

8:42

so that we can form this

8:45

personality and a lot of us

8:45

soaked in a lot of stuff that

8:50

probably wasn't so good, right?

8:50

And some people soaked in big

8:54

traumas, some little and some

8:54

little traumas that became big

8:59

traumas, right? Because we have

8:59

to remember that if we're

9:02

sucking in this information as a

9:02

child, we're gonna perceive it

9:05

in a very big way. Sure. So most

9:05

of our adult lives I've seen is

9:10

that we're sort of undoing a lot

9:10

of that stuff, because it was

9:13

kind of programmed like a

9:13

computer against your will. And

9:17

the thing about it is that your

9:17

unconscious, its only job is to

9:20

keep you alive and safe. It is

9:20

there to get you to run when

9:26

there is danger, right? So we

9:26

see a tiger or we see a bear

9:31

whatever, the blood runs from

9:31

our brain down to our limbs so

9:35

that we can get fast but dumb.

9:35

And so we're not thinking

9:38

clearly at that point. The

9:38

problem is that we can continue

9:43

to live in that state of fight

9:43

or flight and so many of us are

9:46

for various reasons. A lot of it

9:46

is unconscious programming from

9:50

childhood but a lot of is also

9:50

the world right? You know, this

9:54

pandemic has really done a

9:54

number on so many people and

9:57

just motherhood and life We get

9:57

in this loop of nervous system

10:03

dysregulation, constant fight or

10:03

flight, constant over activity

10:08

in the brain. And we're not

10:08

taking care of that part of us.

10:12

So that we're just running,

10:12

we're running hypnotically,

10:14

basically on on a loop that we

10:14

don't want to be on. So I find

10:19

it fascinating because we can

10:19

change that. And I'm all about

10:26

pivoting and changing. And I've

10:26

seen it many, many times. And it

10:31

doesn't have to take as long as

10:31

people think, as well. Yeah, so

10:35

that's kind of, I guess, the

10:35

30,000 foot view of how I view,

10:40

this unconscious mind and our

10:40

programming. And the reason that

10:44

I think it's important that we

10:44

pay attention to that is because

10:49

it does a reflection, right,

10:49

like, so, if we are constantly

10:54

running by the seat of our

10:54

pants, we're gonna run our

10:56

business by the seat of our

10:56

pants, and everything in our

11:00

life is going to be affected by

11:00

that our personal relationships,

11:04

our parenting, the clients that

11:04

we attract, right, everything's

11:08

a mirror. So the

11:10

field, how you

11:10

do one thing is how you do

11:13

everything adage. And I

11:13

absolutely can see that. And I

11:18

know that programming is

11:18

something that is universal,

11:21

like we are all for better or

11:21

for worse. And worse, we come

11:26

out with the experiences that we

11:26

have, and the messages that we

11:29

get from our parents and our

11:29

family members and the other

11:32

people around us as we are in

11:32

those like extremely

11:35

impressionable programmable

11:35

phases of our lives. Do you feel

11:41

since you work primarily with

11:41

photographers, and you are a

11:44

photographer, do you feel like

11:44

this is something that

11:47

disproportionately affects

11:47

artists, or affects us in a

11:55

disproportionately negative way?

11:55

Because I know that there's also

11:57

positive programming out there,

11:57

obviously, not everything that

12:00

we absorb, as small people is,

12:00

you know, turns out to be like a

12:06

bad thing. We're getting all the

12:06

messages at that point.

12:09

Yeah, no, it's a good

12:09

point. Because those of us who

12:12

are creatives do tend to be more

12:12

sensitive. And I, you know,

12:20

everyone's different, you know,

12:20

it's not about just generalizing

12:24

us into one lump sum, because

12:24

even within the world of

12:27

creatives, there's, you know,

12:27

many, many different types of

12:31

us, we're all very unique, but I

12:31

do feel like creatives tend to

12:37

be more prone, especially to the

12:37

over analyzation and overactive

12:42

brain, right, little spicy

12:42

brain, and call it lots of

12:46

different things, but it's part

12:46

of what makes us you know, who

12:50

we are as artists, I really

12:50

believe like the creativity and

12:53

the ability to think outside the

12:53

box and, and that the yearning

12:57

most of us I find, especially

12:57

the people that I know, in my

13:00

communities and everything, you

13:00

know, we're sort of always like

13:04

that, but a lot of people

13:04

unfortunately, were told that

13:07

that wasn't a valuable skill,

13:07

right? Because we were brought

13:10

up in sort of a world and things

13:10

have changed, thankfully. But

13:14

when I was a kid, and and even

13:14

not that long ago, and as part

13:17

of the school system, I think to

13:17

to, like, conform to normal, or

13:22

whatever, that yes, yeah, right.

13:22

And there is no normal, right?

13:25

There's none. But we, we really

13:25

were, for lack of a better word

13:31

institutionalized to believe

13:31

that we needed to be we needed

13:35

to check these boxes, to be a

13:35

productive member of society,

13:39

right. And those of us who are

13:39

artists, alike have this

13:43

internal rebellion against that,

13:43

because we know that that's not

13:47

who our true self and our soul

13:47

is, but so we spend a lot of

13:50

time especially as kids and an

13:50

adolescence especially trying to

13:53

fit in, because that is a core

13:53

human need is to want to fit in

13:58

want to be accepted. Please

13:58

don't look at me, you know,

14:02

because we don't want to be seen

14:02

as our amazing, unique selves.

14:08

It is so scary to do that. But

14:08

it's also so incredibly freeing.

14:13

Like that's, that's the goal, I

14:13

believe, is to become the most

14:17

you that you can be. And so, to

14:17

do that, you really do have to

14:23

make some waves. Because you're

14:23

not gonna You're not for

14:28

everybody, not even just as a

14:28

business owner. You're not for

14:31

everybody as a person. That's

14:31

okay. Sure, you know, but we

14:35

that need of us, you know, to be

14:35

accepted as it is a really deep

14:39

seated need in a lot of us. So

14:39

yeah, I feel like that all comes

14:43

to play. Yeah,

14:44

definitely. And

14:44

I think to your point, it is one

14:48

of the things that is that

14:48

double edged sword like what

14:52

makes us who we are and what

14:52

makes us great as artists and

14:56

creatives can also be the thing

14:56

that really holds us back when

14:59

we go To try and turn that into

14:59

a business and monetize that,

15:03

and all that. So you do a lot of

15:03

coaching. Where do you see this

15:07

show up in your photography

15:07

coaching clients? Like what are

15:11

the things that are really

15:11

holding them back from sort of

15:15

moving into that next phase of

15:15

their photography businesses?

16:07

Mostly pricing, right?

16:07

Mostly when it comes to

16:12

realizing and looking at numbers

16:12

and going, oh, yeah, this isn't

16:16

going to be profitable. This

16:16

isn't sustainable, I have to

16:20

raise my prices. And so that

16:20

that usually is sort of where it

16:23

kind of sparks like, there's a

16:23

lot of guilt. I see. So, so so

16:28

many photographers be guilty,

16:28

feel guilty about charging

16:33

people who are coming to them

16:33

for a service that they wanted,

16:35

right, they are coming to them

16:35

for this amazing service that

16:38

they're putting out there and offering and then they feel guilty sending that invoice. Or,

16:40

you know, there's there's

16:44

something about that, that is

16:44

just keeping them stuck. That is

16:48

the main thing. And then the

16:48

other thing is the showing up,

16:52

showing up online, whatever it

16:52

is showing up in person, there's

16:57

a lot of you know, while I would

16:57

just rather be behind the

17:00

camera. Yes, I totally get that.

17:00

And I've been there like,

17:04

honestly, like, I've dealt with

17:04

both of those things. And so

17:09

that's another reason why I talk

17:09

about what I do, because it is

17:14

the thing that is holding us

17:14

back. But I also believe that if

17:19

you were drawn to this career,

17:19

this business, this art form,

17:24

whatever it is that you're

17:24

doing, if you were drawn to it,

17:27

first of all, it's it's who

17:27

you're meant to be, right,

17:30

that's that's part of your journey. It's not even necessarily about achieving it.

17:32

I mean, I'm all about achieving

17:35

goals, but it's not necessarily

17:35

about achieving it. It's about

17:38

who you become along the way.

17:38

Yeah. Like it's really about who

17:42

you're becoming. And so if you

17:42

are willing to look at that,

17:47

with honesty, you will be able,

17:47

I mean, you're gonna learn so

17:50

much more about yourself even

17:50

just on that path. And I believe

17:54

that if you're drawn to this,

17:54

you also were meant to see that,

18:00

like you were this it is it is a

18:00

trigger. If Yeah, right. Yeah.

18:04

to like, go oh, oh, that's

18:04

interesting. That's something

18:09

that I didn't even realize, like

18:09

when I was going through my

18:11

pricing stuff, I brought up all

18:11

kinds of stuff that I was just

18:17

unaware that I was running as a

18:17

script and my ad like,

18:21

completely unaware of it when I

18:21

stopped and I looked at it, like

18:24

Where's this coming from? And

18:24

then when I realized that I can

18:28

just highlight it and go, Okay,

18:28

that's interesting. That's the

18:31

other side of it, though, is

18:31

looking at it with neutrality

18:33

and not judging ourselves. And

18:33

that's the other thing that we

18:37

do as creatives, which is, like

18:37

99% of us have really nasty

18:41

inner saboteurs. Yeah, like

18:41

really nasty voices in our head.

18:45

And that voice is not your

18:45

intuition. That voice is not

18:49

telling you the truth. Okay.

18:49

That is your unconscious

18:52

programming, pulling you back to

18:52

safety, because it thinks that

18:55

what you're doing is going to

18:55

literally kill you. That's all

18:58

it thinks. Right? And so it's up

18:58

to us to understand that it's,

19:03

that's all it is. It's, it

19:03

doesn't need to be like, I'm so

19:06

stupid. I can't believe I'm

19:06

continuing to do this. Why can't

19:09

I just know, step back, look at

19:09

it as a thing of neutrality.

19:14

Like, that's an interesting

19:14

piece of information that I

19:18

didn't know, was there. Okay. Do

19:18

I want to work on it? Because we

19:22

all have a choice? Do I want to

19:22

deal with it? Or do I want to

19:25

just keep pushing it away? Yeah,

19:25

no. And it really the choice is

19:28

yours.

19:29

I feel like the

19:29

first time that I ever heard

19:31

about this sort of subconscious

19:31

programming, but also basically

19:35

the part of our brain. That is,

19:35

it's binary, it's like, this is

19:41

death or safety. There's no

19:41

like, well, this may be

19:45

uncomfortable, but you're gonna

19:45

be okay. It's, you know, the

19:47

worst that could happen was bah,

19:47

bah, bah. And somebody called

19:51

that your lizard brain. Yeah,

19:51

because it developed back when

19:55

we were, you know, coming out of

19:55

the muck, basically, like it was

19:57

just a safety feature in our

19:57

brains. So every time that I

20:01

think about this, I like

20:01

thinking of it as this lizard

20:04

brain because if it's coming

20:04

from a lizard, I'm much more

20:07

able to say like, okay, that's

20:07

sweet that you think that but

20:10

I'm a person, I can think bigger

20:10

thoughts than that I can think

20:13

more nuanced in a more nuanced

20:13

way. It sort of gave me the

20:18

ability to almost, you know,

20:18

give form to those kinds of

20:22

thoughts and a lizard is an easy

20:22

one to just sort of. Yeah, okay,

20:27

you may look a little scary, but

20:27

you're tiny and not a big deal.

20:30

And so I think that yeah, like

20:30

so many of the things that we

20:33

get hung up on and money is such

20:33

a huge one and I hold such big

20:38

space for creatives who decide

20:38

to go into business, it is hard,

20:43

because you are like fighting

20:43

yourself. You're fighting you

20:47

know, suicide Anybody who for

20:47

all their claims of loving art

20:50

did generally tend to sort of

20:50

devalue it and all this other

20:54

stuff. And so we're we're

20:54

fighting what I believe it's

20:56

very much the good fight, it can

20:56

feel like an uphill battle. So

20:59

yeah,

21:00

and it can feel very

21:00

lonely because you feel like

21:02

that's the other trick of it, it makes you feel like you're the only person dealing with this. I

21:04

guess what? Hello, you're not

21:07

Yeah, like, literally all of us

21:07

are dealing with this. And I

21:09

don't care how many people you

21:09

think have it together, they all

21:12

still pops up it, okay, it's

21:12

there to keep us alive. We are,

21:16

like you said it is the lizard

21:16

part of your brain, it is the

21:18

oldest part of our brain. And it

21:18

is there to just keep the human

21:22

race going. That's its only job.

21:22

That's it. And so if you can

21:26

break it down to that, you can

21:26

give it a visual, like a lizard

21:29

or whatever. Like, sometimes I

21:29

picture it as a T Rex, which is

21:31

really funny. I don't know why.

21:31

But like, it is that that part

21:36

of us, that's just like, okay,

21:36

but I really believe that it is,

21:41

there's a couple of different

21:41

ways to look at it. And, you

21:45

know, some of my clients really

21:45

need to view that inner saboteur

21:50

in a way that is going to like

21:50

that in an in a not very

21:55

positive view, because it feels

21:55

like it is, you know, someone

22:01

really cracking the whip on you.

22:01

Okay, so, personify that. And

22:06

who does that remind you of?

22:06

Mainly, right, because there's

22:09

probably somebody in your past

22:09

that that might remind you, I'm

22:12

sure, that could be one strategy

22:12

to deal with it. There's also

22:16

the other thing of just naming

22:16

it as somebody that you don't

22:19

like a person that doesn't feel

22:19

good to you. But what I feel

22:23

like is the most effective is to

22:23

just really, like, picture it as

22:26

little you because it kind of

22:26

is. And when you start running

22:32

from something that I've dealt

22:32

with anxiety my whole life. And

22:35

so this is definitely kinda like

22:35

that. When you run from anxiety,

22:40

you act like Oh, my God, I just,

22:40

I just don't want to have

22:43

another panic attack or

22:43

whatever. It's kind of the same

22:46

thing with this, if you keep

22:46

running from it and acting like

22:49

it's not there, and like, it's

22:49

just gonna get bigger, it's just

22:53

gonna get bigger, because it's

22:53

literally like the energy, it's

22:56

all energetics, right? What you

22:56

resist persists. So if you stop,

23:03

and you are able to really just

23:03

have that awareness of this is

23:08

what this is. And I am well

23:08

resourced now. And so what's one

23:12

of the things that I, I usually

23:12

will lean more toward, as far as

23:17

like working with my clients

23:17

about is getting to a space

23:20

where they can look at this part

23:20

of themselves, that inner voice,

23:24

whatever you want to call it as

23:24

a mechanism that is just trying

23:28

to keep you safe. And stopping

23:28

and thinking it first and

23:33

saying, Okay, thank you for

23:33

keeping us alive. Like you have

23:36

done a fabulous job, we're

23:36

alive, like, good job. However,

23:40

the conscious part of your

23:40

brain, the evolved part of our

23:43

brain, we want something more,

23:43

we want something different. We

23:47

want better bigger, you know, we

23:47

want to step into our highest

23:49

potential. You can't do that, if

23:49

that unconscious part of you is

23:53

running the show, right? For

23:53

most of it, it is running the

23:56

show like 90% of your brain like

23:56

it, we get on autopilot,

24:00

autopilot with it. Right. So

24:00

it's really about us making the

24:06

decision to look at it through

24:06

that lens of just is, it is a

24:14

newt it is a thing, right? Like

24:14

just like how you would look at

24:17

a tree. Oh, that's a pretty

24:17

tree. Oh, that's a building.

24:20

It's red. That's my unconscious

24:20

programming. It's just trying to

24:24

keep me alive. You know? Like,

24:24

it's just part of us. And so

24:28

looking at it and saying, Okay,

24:28

thank you so much for keeping us

24:31

alive, but you're dismissed,

24:31

like, you're good. I've got this

24:35

get in the back seat, I'm

24:35

driving the car now. And this is

24:39

where we're going. And you're

24:39

safe. Because I've got you, that

24:42

usually helps people a little

24:42

bit more long term. Because

24:47

you're facing it, you're, you

24:47

know, really actually dealing

24:49

with it, not sweeping it away

24:49

and telling it to, you know, eff

24:52

off, you're dealing with it. And

24:52

then the more you do that,

24:56

again, we know the more we do

24:56

things, right, we're going to

24:58

get better at them. We weren't

24:58

all great photographers, when we

25:01

picked up a camera, you know,

25:01

same thing. So it's the same

25:05

kind of, you know, mentality, we

25:05

have to be willing to put in the

25:10

practice of rewiring that. Yeah.

25:14

And I imagine

25:14

that that's sort of a lifelong

25:17

journey for all of us. I mean,

25:17

you talked about adulthood is

25:19

basically the undoing of some of

25:19

the less productive things that

25:24

we are programmed with when we

25:24

start out. But when it comes to

25:28

the things in this hardwiring,

25:28

that are holding us individually

25:34

back in our businesses, we're

25:34

talking about sort of noticing

25:39

it as step number one, maybe

25:39

giving it a little bit of a

25:43

nickname or a visual or some

25:43

sort of representation so that

25:47

you can go All that to mind when

25:47

you start to notice those things

25:50

showing up, I love the idea of

25:50

the Thank you, but we're good.

25:55

Now I actually my best friend is

25:55

a vet. And years ago when she

26:00

helped me pick out my first dog,

26:00

and to this day, he will bark

26:03

like crazy when the UPS man

26:03

comes or whatever. And, and I at

26:09

first I was trying to get him to

26:09

stop, you know, no, you be

26:12

quiet, whatever. And she was

26:12

like, you really should

26:15

acknowledge what he's trying to

26:15

do for you, which is to protect

26:18

you, you can say thank you. And

26:18

then let him know that you're

26:22

okay. And so now that you've

26:22

said that I'm like, I'm gonna

26:25

think of this as Otis being, you

26:25

know, going bananas at the door

26:29

and me saying, Okay, thanks. So

26:29

does, handing him a toy that's

26:32

now our routine, my sweet dog is

26:32

not trying to do anything

26:36

malicious, he's trying to

26:36

protect me. So I appreciate

26:39

that. But also, it's not

26:39

necessary. And I know that

26:43

because I'm the one in charge.

26:43

And so all of these steps are

26:47

really good, when it's something

26:47

that you need to kind of get

26:51

beyond in a shorter term period

26:51

of time, not like the life

26:55

journey. What are what are the

26:55

additional ways that you see

26:58

being helpful for that?

27:01

Yeah, I mean, I do feel

27:01

like, you know, our journey is

27:04

our journey is gonna, you know,

27:04

it's part of our lifetime here.

27:08

But we can actually get through

27:08

stuff way quicker than I feel

27:12

like we have been sold, right.

27:12

And listen, I'm a big proponent

27:18

of therapy, like huge, but

27:18

sometimes people can get stuck

27:21

in that. Yeah. And, you know,

27:21

like, what I really would

27:25

encourage people to look at if

27:25

they're struggling with some of

27:29

this, is to try and get some

27:29

solution based, you know, and

27:35

there are a lot of therapists

27:35

who do that, but but I do see a

27:38

lot of people just kind of stuck

27:38

in the loop of staying in it.

27:42

And really, what you want to do

27:42

is move through it, right, you

27:45

don't want to have to be in that

27:45

place anymore. It's not

27:47

comfortable. So why stay there.

27:47

So there's a lot of different

27:51

ways that you can do this. I

27:51

mean, one of the things that I'm

27:54

a big believer in, and that I

27:54

use, is hypnosis meditation,

28:00

there's a reason why people say

28:00

meditation is like the key to

28:02

life. Because it kind of is, I

28:02

mean, meditation changes your

28:06

resonance, it changes your

28:06

energetic frequency, it changes

28:10

your vibration, and this whole

28:10

place, this whole planet, and

28:14

everything, this desk, this mic,

28:14

just energy, everything is

28:18

energetic, right? So if we can

28:18

just learn to step into our

28:23

fullest resonance, that's really

28:23

all we need to be worried about.

28:28

And I know that sounds very

28:28

egocentric, but it's actually

28:30

the opposite of that. Because

28:30

when you when you do that a lot

28:34

when you meditate a lot, when

28:34

you do hypnosis, when you get,

28:38

you know, in that alignment,

28:38

it's not about you, like nothing

28:43

is about you. And then you start

28:43

to realize that literally none

28:46

of this matters. And none of

28:46

this is about you. It's about

28:50

what you bring to other people,

28:50

your resonance, your connection,

28:55

we are literally all the same

28:55

waves in the ocean, we are all

28:58

the same. When it when we break

28:58

it down energetically. We're all

29:02

part of this. And so the more

29:02

connected we feel to each other.

29:08

The happier we feel, the better

29:08

we feel. It's in the disconnect,

29:14

that we don't feel good. And

29:14

anxiety lies to us. The

29:19

overthinking lies to us the

29:19

inner saboteur lies. It keeps

29:22

you very like Mee Mee Mee Mee

29:22

Mee Mee Mee right. And it's not

29:28

about us, at the end of the day.

29:28

So I'm a big believer in

29:32

meditation. And it doesn't have

29:32

to be like, I'm sitting down for

29:35

an hour long and I'm doing the

29:35

meditation. And you know, the

29:38

thing that I hear from people

29:38

all the time is, well, my brain

29:41

doesn't stop and I don't I'm not

29:41

doing it right. Well there.

29:44

First of all, there's nothing

29:44

that you need to be doing right

29:47

like it is. It's not about being

29:47

perfect at this. It's literally

29:51

about just stepping into that

29:51

space and allowing to see what

29:56

comes through hypnosis, I find

29:56

is a little bit easier for

30:00

people with creative brains

30:00

because I create tracks. So I do

30:07

have some, you know, hypnosis

30:07

tracks that people can just kind

30:10

of listen to, I create some

30:10

specifically for myself, I'll

30:13

create them specifically for

30:13

coaching clients, you know, I

30:17

can work one on one with people,

30:17

but I find that it's easier for

30:23

us to sort of step into that

30:23

space, because it's framed in a

30:27

little bit slightly different

30:27

way like I'm speaking to your

30:30

unconscious mind. You don't get

30:30

to do nothing. Step aside. Like

30:33

literally, it doesn't matter

30:33

what you're doing. I mean,

30:36

obviously you don't wanna be

30:36

driving a car because it does

30:38

have the side effect of nice

30:38

relaxation. But like after my

30:42

some of my coaching clients have

30:42

been doing it for a while.

30:46

They'll listen to hypnosis, try

30:46

Because when they're editing,

30:49

they'll listen to it when

30:49

they're cleaning the house like

30:51

because you're just your

30:51

unconscious mind is getting the

30:55

good stuff. And it has binaural

30:55

beats and some music. So you

31:00

know, you get the side effect of

31:00

feeling good as well. So I find

31:04

that hypnosis is a little bit

31:04

easier for people. But it could

31:07

be as simple as five minute

31:07

journaling in the morning, like

31:11

setting the tone for your day, I

31:11

shared something just recently

31:13

on my Instagram about this, my

31:13

husband struggles with a very,

31:19

very nasty inner saboteur, like

31:19

his whole life. And I really

31:22

feel that and he's, he's, like,

31:22

probably one of the most the

31:25

most creative people I've ever

31:25

met. Like, all all creativity,

31:29

like, he can write, he can draw,

31:29

he can act, he can direct he

31:33

can, like, I've never, I've

31:33

never met anybody who is

31:37

literally like, oh, I can do

31:37

that, you know, and it's all

31:39

this most amazing, like

31:39

creatively artistic art form,

31:43

and he has a lot of depression.

31:43

And so people I find who deal

31:48

with a lot of depression have a

31:48

really heavy inner saboteur. So

31:52

it's been his life journey to

31:52

work with that. And one of the

31:58

strategies that works really,

31:58

really well for him is that, you

32:02

know, his alarm goes off, but

32:02

he's not getting right out of

32:04

bed, like because then people,

32:04

like, you got to find what works

32:06

for you. For me, my alarm goes

32:06

off, I'm up. I'm like, let's go,

32:11

let's start the day I can't

32:11

freakin wait. Okay, he's like,

32:15

just no. need, I need a minute,

32:15

right? And so, he it, his alarm

32:22

goes off, he presses news, he

32:22

puts in his earbuds, and he

32:27

listens to a track. And it's

32:27

usually like a hypnosis track.

32:31

Or like, he has this mantra that

32:31

he's like, sort of created for

32:34

himself over the years that he's

32:34

refined. And it's playing that

32:38

it only takes about 1015 minutes

32:38

or something. But he's setting

32:43

the tone for his day, he's

32:43

getting all the good stuff, like

32:46

right as you're coming out of

32:46

sleep is a fantastic time to do

32:49

it. Because you're coming out of

32:49

delta waves, theta waves. And

32:53

your theta brainwaves is all

32:53

creativity, that's where we

32:55

lived before, we were seven,

32:55

basically. And so that's why we

32:58

were able to suck everything in.

32:58

So theta is a great place to be

33:01

in. And so he sets the tone for

33:01

me, that doesn't work. I don't

33:06

want to listen to anything. I

33:06

feel like that's keeping me

33:09

like, in a in a, you know, I'm

33:09

not starting yet. Like it's kind

33:14

of hard to explain, but I don't

33:14

feel aligned with that. Because

33:17

I just want to kind of get up

33:17

and start and, you know, go for

33:22

a walk or get dressed or do a

33:22

podcast, whatever it is, I

33:26

prefer to do that kind of stuff

33:26

at night when I am finally

33:29

coming down from my Yeah, you

33:29

know, go go go nest because I'm

33:33

just naturally that kind of

33:33

person. So you have to find what

33:36

works for you. And it could be

33:36

like in the middle of the day

33:39

for you. So I think the first

33:39

thing is that you need to kind

33:43

of just explore that a little

33:43

bit. Sometimes you have to

33:45

experiment and say, yeah, that

33:45

didn't work and see the contrast

33:48

of that, and follow the joy of

33:48

what feels good for you. And

33:53

don't let someone else tell you

33:53

that you have to do it this way.

33:56

Because that's not the case.

33:56

Well,

33:58

and that

33:58

frequently is the culprit when

34:02

it comes to us getting into

34:02

cycles of doing things that

34:05

aren't in alignment with who we

34:05

are or what makes sense. And

34:09

then yeah, and then it all feels

34:09

hard. Mm hmm. I love that. And I

34:14

imagine that many of the people

34:14

listening have never played

34:18

around with hypnosis. I mean, I

34:18

think a lot of people have

34:21

probably dabbled with in

34:21

meditation at some point or

34:25

another in their journey. But I

34:25

love that that's something that

34:27

you really work in and a

34:27

modality that you have pushed

34:32

out in this particular way as a

34:32

way for creatives to kind of tap

34:37

deeper into that and get a

34:37

little bit more almost passive

34:42

realignment, which is which just

34:42

sounds miraculous. Yeah,

34:47

it's like, step aside,

34:47

let me just let me just do the

34:50

work for you. Yeah. And that's

34:50

literally what it's about, like,

34:53

you don't really actually have

34:53

to be an active participant in

34:56

it. And in fact, it's better if

34:56

you're not because you're gonna

34:58

overthink your way and try and

34:58

logic your way out of it. Just

35:01

just step aside, put some

35:01

earbuds in put some headphones

35:04

on, and just let me do work.

35:04

Like, really, it's funny, I had

35:09

a client not long ago, you know,

35:09

she was really struggling with a

35:12

lot of the pricing stuff, a lot

35:12

of the raising the prices, and

35:17

so a lot of triggers coming up.

35:17

And you know, one of the things

35:21

I told her is like you, you

35:21

definitely need to be listening

35:25

to these like every day for the

35:25

next like two weeks. Just give

35:28

it a full two weeks. Like, just

35:28

commit to it. There's 30 minutes

35:32

each. There's not that long,

35:32

right? And so a few weeks went

35:36

by actually and she was like,

35:36

Yeah, it's interesting. I just

35:40

don't really feel that. It

35:40

doesn't feel that big anymore.

35:44

I'm like, yeah, and she's like,

35:44

I wonder why I'm like I wonder

35:47

why You know what I mean? Like,

35:47

so you don't even notice. And so

35:52

that's what's really cool about

35:52

it. That's when that's when most

35:55

people are sold. They're like,

35:55

Oh, okay, I get it now, because

36:00

it happens, like, all of a

36:00

sudden, you'll just feel like, I

36:04

don't feel that charged up about

36:04

it anymore. It's like, yes, it's

36:08

still there. I still can see it.

36:08

But it's like you're looking

36:11

like at it in black and white.

36:11

When it's not in full color

36:17

anymore, right? I mean, right?

36:17

And that's kind of where you

36:20

want to be. Because you're not

36:20

so close to it. Amazing.

36:24

And you have if

36:24

I'm not mistaken, a resource

36:26

that you can share on that

36:26

correct?

36:29

Yes, there's like a

36:29

free hypnosis that you guys can

36:34

download. So I'll get you guys

36:34

that link. And you can just give

36:39

it a shot and try it and see if

36:39

you like it. I have I have a

36:42

whole private podcast that I

36:42

call calibrate that I have a lot

36:47

of my tracks on and they add to

36:47

over time. So you know, that's

36:52

another resource, but I have a

36:52

free download for you guys to

36:54

just kind of like, get a little

36:54

try. See how you like it.

36:57

Because you really do it has to

36:57

align with you. Right? Like not

37:00

everybody, it there's a lot of

37:00

people doing a lot of these

37:03

things. And the thing is, is to

37:03

find the one that feels good to

37:08

you. Because if it doesn't feel

37:08

good to you, you're not going to

37:10

do it. And it's just like

37:10

anything else. It's just like

37:14

going to the gym. If you want

37:14

something better, you you have

37:18

to be someone different. And

37:18

this is how you change that.

37:24

This is how you shift. And it's

37:24

not about like, Oh, I'm going to

37:27

completely leave behind this

37:27

whole personality. No, but you

37:30

absolutely can change those

37:30

things about yourself and rewire

37:33

those things in your unconscious

37:33

programming that are not as

37:36

desirable or they're not going

37:36

to get you where you want to go.

37:39

You can

37:40

amazing so good

37:40

Brene tell everyone out there

37:44

who is like I need more. I want

37:44

more Renee, how they can connect

37:49

with you and and and of course

37:49

we will link your your resources

37:54

in the show notes.

37:56

Yeah, I'm just Renee Bo

37:56

I'm pretty much across the board

37:59

Renee bowen.com. And at renew

37:59

Renee Bowen on Instagram Tiktok

38:04

I'm on Tik Tok a lot that one's

38:04

Renee underscore Bowen. But

38:08

yeah, you'll be able to find me

38:08

pretty much wherever. If you

38:12

type my name in and I'm always

38:12

chatting with people in my DMs.

38:15

I also have some free Facebook

38:15

communities for people so yeah,

38:18

just get in touch. I love it. Love it. Love it. Well,

38:20

thank you again

38:20

and and yeah, this has been

38:24

everything that I was hoping it

38:24

was going to be. Have a great

38:27

dad. Well, that's it for this

38:27

week's episode of This can't be

38:31

that hard. I'll be back Same

38:31

time, same place next week. In

38:35

the meantime, you can find more

38:35

information about this episode,

38:38

along with all the relevant

38:38

links, notes and downloads at

38:41

this can't be that

38:41

hard.com/learn If you liked the

38:45

podcast, be sure to hit the

38:45

subscribe button. Even better,

38:49

share the love by leaving a

38:49

review on iTunes. And as always,

38:53

thanks so much for joining me. I

38:53

hope you have a fantastic week.