0:02

Well, I had Winston and

0:05

then, no, yeah, Winston at 84. And

0:08

then after he passed,

0:10

I had another

0:12

one, his name was Wilson. I

0:15

was going with the president theme there, you

0:18

know, Winston Churchill, Woodrow Wilson, that sort

0:20

of thing. And

0:22

then after Wilson, we

0:24

got Carl. Yeah. we were married,

0:26

and Carl was a character.

0:29

He was great.

0:33

He was unbelievable. Carl,

0:36

the Golden Retriever, who had more character

0:39

than Jimmy Durrani. What

0:42

is a Golden Retriever with a lot of kind

0:44

of Jimmy Durrani character look like? Well,

0:50

he would

0:52

help himself to prancing

0:55

around the neighborhood.

0:56

He would go to

0:59

our friend's houses when

1:01

we weren't there. He

1:05

could get out on a swimming pool

1:07

floatie and hang out on the pool when you're in the

1:10

summertime. He knew how to do that. It

1:12

was pretty remarkable.

1:15

hearing from John and Perry Shafer.

1:18

They've always had golden retrievers, and

1:21

in 2008, they decided to get

1:23

another one. They wanted

1:25

to surprise their three daughters, who were eight,

1:27

six, and four, with a puppy for Christmas.

1:31

John and Perry

1:33

live in Stowe, Vermont. A

1:35

week before Christmas, John headed to Lindenville,

1:38

Vermont, where he picked up their new dog.

1:41

And it was really snowing hard that

1:43

night. It was a really big winter storm.

1:45

And it took me a lot longer to get

1:47

back from Lindeville to Stowe than it should have.

1:50

I was drinking a lot of coffee, so I pulled up to

1:52

the house. They were waiting on the steps and

1:54

I kind of let the puppy out and let him

1:56

run over to the girls. I ran

1:59

inside

2:00

and went to the bathroom and

2:02

I came back out and

2:04

I said, where's the puppy? And the girl said,

2:06

oh, he ran off into the woods. And

2:10

so I went, what do you mean he ran

2:12

off into the woods? And they said, daddy went over there.

2:15

And anyways, the puppy

2:17

who we had named Baylor, he

2:19

took off into the woods the very first 10

2:22

minutes that we had him home.

2:27

The Shafers

2:27

live on 50 acres, and

2:29

their property backs up to a state forest.

2:33

So we all started looking for him, and we

2:36

couldn't find him. So we were

2:38

getting pretty concerned, and it

2:40

was snowing harder and harder and harder, and

2:43

you couldn't even see his tracks. I mean, even

2:45

if you were walking for a few minutes, the snow would cover

2:48

up the tracks. So it was getting

2:50

pretty concerning. He was only three months old

2:52

and figuring he's not going to survive

2:54

out in the evening. So I had a friend

2:56

that was on Stowe Rescue, and I called him

2:59

up and said, hey, do you think

3:01

you guys could come help us look for

3:02

a dog we just lost? And he

3:05

graciously said, yeah, we're doing some training.

3:08

We'll bring the guys up.

3:09

John and Perry told us that 30

3:12

firefighters showed up and started

3:14

searching the woods with flashlights.

3:16

And I was out searching, and the girls were out

3:18

searching in the woods, and everybody was out looking

3:20

for the dog, the puppy, and we couldn't find him.

3:23

So this is, you know, maybe it's now 10

3:26

or 11 o'clock at night, and they went back to

3:28

wherever they went. And I drove around

3:31

for a couple more hours and still couldn't find him, and

3:34

came home, and my wife and I were just like,

3:36

oh my gosh, we've lost

3:38

the dog. We've ruined Christmas.

3:41

What are we going to do?

3:43

I was, you know, just feeling so nauseous.

3:45

I was like, oh my gosh,

3:47

we're like the worst of the

3:50

worst human beings. Hey, here's your puppy. Oh,

3:52

it ran off and probably not going to make it through

3:54

the first nor'easter. But,

3:56

you know, Merry Christmas. Here's, you know, some socks.

4:00

So we kind of slept on it and I woke

4:03

up early in the morning and I thought,

4:05

well, you know, I talked to some other breeders, maybe

4:07

I should just go get another dog. But

4:09

the only breeder left that I

4:11

had talked to was all the way on the

4:13

border of Canada and in Vermont.

4:16

Holland, Vermont? Way up there and

4:19

it was still snowing, you know, terribly.

4:22

So I got in my four-wheel

4:24

drive truck and I took off to go get

4:27

another dog. And I drove all

4:29

the way up there a couple hours and could

4:31

barely find this place. And

4:33

I get to this big barn and I'm like,

4:35

oh my goodness, I don't even know how to

4:38

choose one. I'm still worried about

4:40

the one we lost, you know, and I

4:42

just pointed to one dog, I grabbed him.

4:44

Was there anything special about the dog

4:47

you pointed to or you're just thinking, I got to get out of here? No,

4:49

he came up to me out of, you know, 20

4:51

that were in this little thing. He came right up to

4:53

me. So I said, all right,

4:56

that guy likes me. Let's take him. And

4:58

it wasn't, I'll bet five

5:01

minutes, I wasn't even out of the guy's driveway.

5:04

And I get a phone call from my wife. She

5:06

says, you're not going to believe this, but we

5:08

found Baylor. And

5:11

I said, what do you mean you found Baylor? And

5:13

he said, well, he was at the neighbor's house hiding

5:15

under a rock and they put out some food this

5:17

morning because they had dogs too. And

5:20

they were looking for him as well. And he came

5:22

to get the food. And so they've got him. And

5:24

I'm like, oh my goodness, what am I going to do? So

5:27

I thought, well, I can't go back

5:29

in there and give the dog back that I just bought from

5:32

this guy, although he probably would have taken

5:34

him back. You already liked the dog anyway

5:36

by that time. I did kind of like him. So I said,

5:38

you know what? We're going to go

5:40

with two. That's how

5:42

we got the two dogs. And on

5:44

the way home, I decided to name him Samson.

5:47

I don't know where that came from, but

5:48

that was it. And so we

5:51

kind of talked on the way back. My wife

5:53

and I, we kind of came up with a story that there

5:55

was always two, you know, all along. and we

5:57

kinda tried to downplay the losing one.

6:00

And so we

6:02

had two dogs, and

6:04

that's how it started, Samson and Barreller.

6:09

Once you got the two puppies there,

6:13

tell me a little bit about the two of them. And

6:16

these weren't brothers. I mean, they hadn't

6:18

come from the same litter. These were guys

6:20

from different parts of the state. How did they

6:22

first get along, and what were they like?

6:25

You know, instantly, like, hey, man,

6:28

you look like me, and you look like they

6:30

too. So they just started naturally

6:32

hanging out with each other,

6:34

good

6:37

companionship. And I had

6:39

never seen two dogs forge a deeper relationship

6:41

with

6:48

each other. It was incredible.

6:50

You'd never see one

6:52

without the other. I think we probably

6:54

could have ended up calling them repeat and repeat

6:56

because they were just inseparable after

6:59

that from a very early age.

7:03

The Shafers had so much land that

7:05

they just opened the door and let the puppies

7:07

run. And as they got

7:09

bigger, the dogs learned to open the door

7:12

and let themselves out to run.

7:17

I would catch Sam opening the door. Literally,

7:19

he learned how to get his paws and

7:22

hand around or Paul around the

7:24

knob. You know, we locked the doors. We got

7:26

different door knobs. We did.

7:28

I built a fence, you know, a fenced-in

7:30

yard for them in the doghouse to keep them in

7:32

there and they just kept getting. They dug out, yeah. Dug

7:35

their way out of that, kept getting out,

7:37

so.

7:38

And you couldn't really ever

7:40

tell who, or

7:43

maybe you could, who was leading

7:45

the other one on, because

7:47

you could tell when the dogs were looking at

7:49

each

7:50

other like, okay, I had just about

7:52

time for us to go out of here. And

7:54

they would each give each other this look,

7:57

And, you know, five seconds later, they'd

7:59

be taking off.

8:01

One day the police called. The

8:03

dogs had made their way into town.

8:08

Sometimes the family would take the dogs to hike

8:10

in Putnam State Forest near their

8:12

house. There's a very

8:14

popular hike there called the Pinnacle Trail,

8:17

which is slightly less than two miles each way.

8:20

You

8:20

know, it's not a super steep climb, but

8:22

there's a series of steps. And

8:25

it kind of switches back in a couple places. So

8:29

if you're out of shape or a little

8:31

bit older, it could be a challenging

8:33

climb. But for a dog, it's

8:36

pretty simple. Let's say

8:38

it's probably

8:38

intermediate in terms of a

8:40

rated climb, and you definitely

8:43

are scaling some rock

8:45

in certain portions. No, there's steps

8:48

that's man-made, and it's easily accessible.

8:51

But it's a decent workout. And

8:53

once we

8:55

took them up the trail, I

8:57

think that first couple

8:59

times when we took them up to the top, that

9:02

kind of was ingrained in their

9:04

DNA. And after that, they would go

9:06

to the trail every day.

9:08

Just the two of them.

9:11

I'm Phoebe Judge, and this is

9:13

love. We'll

9:18

be right back.

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11:24

People hiking on the Pinnacle Trail would

11:27

often be surprised to find two

11:29

golden retrievers waiting for

11:31

them at the top.

11:33

Perry

11:34

says that it became their routine. So

11:37

they get up in the morning

11:40

and we let them

11:42

out. And usually

11:45

that first

11:46

out, they'd go out

11:49

and do their business, do a little sniffing,

11:51

come back in, eat. Then

11:54

Perry says the dogs would let

11:56

everyone know that they were ready to leave for the trail.

11:59

And then they would.

12:00

and they would be there all day and

12:02

they would come home at dusk.

12:06

Reminded

12:06

me of growing up in

12:08

the summers, we'd take off on our bikes

12:10

in the morning and we'd stay out all day at

12:13

the playground and come home when the streetlights came

12:15

on for dinner and that's kind of what they did

12:17

all the time.

12:18

So would they have a little breakfast

12:20

in the morning and then off to work? Okay.

12:24

Off to the top? That's kind of it. Yeah. Yes,

12:26

exactly.

12:26

It was never the first time you let them out during

12:29

the day. They'd always come back for a little food

12:31

and then kind of say, goodbye,

12:33

have a nice day. And then the next time you let them out,

12:36

gone.

12:37

They put bells on the dog's collars

12:39

so people could hear them coming.

12:42

Perry says they would always come

12:44

home muddy and she'd have to give them a bath.

12:47

Would they go out in all weather? Yep.

12:51

Pretty much. They were in previous.

12:53

Brained snows, leadership. Did

12:56

they seem happy when they would come home at night? Oh,

12:58

yes. They did.

12:59

And for me, it was, you

13:02

know, I definitely

13:04

would have loved to be able to

13:06

have them tell me what went on during their

13:08

trip.

13:16

When did you first meet Samson

13:18

and Baylor?

13:20

I first met Samson and Baylor in the

13:22

summer of 2019. And

13:25

we, my family and I love

13:28

to visit Stowe, Vermont, which is this beautiful

13:31

sort of quintessential New England town

13:34

in the Green Mountains of Vermont.

13:36

Filmmaker Anzalie Floyd.

13:38

And it's a popular vacation destination. It's

13:40

great for skiing, for hiking. And

13:44

we were visiting some friends of ours who

13:46

own a home there. And they took us

13:49

on the most popular hiking

13:51

trail in the town of Stowe, which

13:53

is the Pinnacruz trail.

13:55

And we're walking along the trail,

13:58

my family and friends and I. And

14:00

we were approached by these two huge

14:04

golden retrievers. And

14:06

they stopped to say hello and

14:08

then just went barreling on the trail ahead of us.

14:11

When you say approached by these dogs,

14:13

I mean, like they ran at you or what were they

14:15

doing when? The dogs were on

14:18

their way to the summit and

14:21

they passed us on the trail as they pass all

14:23

the hikers on their way to the top. They're anxious

14:25

to get there.

14:26

So they seemed as though they were on a mission. Exactly.

14:30

They were very much

14:32

on a mission, which is their daily mission,

14:34

which is to to

14:37

greet and be loved by all the hikers on

14:39

the trail, which they very much were, and

14:41

to reach the top where they would kind of lounge

14:44

around in the sunshine all

14:46

day long. And at dusk they

14:49

would head back home.

14:51

If you tried to pet the dogs or talk

14:53

to them, how would they respond

14:56

to you? Oh, with nothing

14:58

but affection. They

15:01

loved the attention.

15:03

Ansley Floyd decided to start

15:05

filming them. I was told by

15:07

a local person that the dogs would sort of

15:09

linger at the top all day and

15:11

wait for the last hiker

15:14

to descend before they would

15:17

themselves descend. And

15:19

I found that hard to believe, but

15:22

lo and behold, one

15:25

of the days that I was filming, I

15:27

went up at dusk, and

15:30

because I wanted to photograph the sunset

15:33

and the dogs up at the top

15:35

of the trail in the sunset.

15:37

And I did that

15:39

and the sun went down and

15:42

the dogs were still there. And

15:44

I kind of waited around until it got very dark, thinking

15:47

that perhaps they would leave and

15:50

they didn't. So it

15:52

wasn't until

15:54

I started to descend that

15:57

I noticed they were coming down behind

15:59

me.

17:17

My

18:00

idea for the film would, you

18:02

know, every good documentary film

18:05

has some sort of conflict involved

18:08

in the story. And I assumed the

18:11

conflict in this story would be

18:13

between people who enjoyed

18:16

seeing the dogs and approved

18:18

of their being unaccompanied, pitted

18:21

against people who disapproved,

18:23

who who maybe weren't comfortable with the idea

18:26

of two dogs unaccompanied,

18:29

you know, off-leash,

18:30

on a trail, unmonitored.

18:35

But when I actually began filming

18:38

and interviewing hikers, almost

18:41

unanimously, people approved

18:44

of their being on the trail unaccompanied. Over

18:47

the years, people would often call John

18:49

and Perry to let them know that their dogs

18:52

were up on top of the pinnacle trail by themselves.

18:55

They would think they were lost, and they'd say, oh, there's

18:57

these two beautiful dogs up here. Should

19:00

we bring them home to you? Or what should we do? Should

19:02

we call somebody? And they would call me, and

19:04

I'd say, no, no, they're fine. It's less they're

19:06

bothering you. And just

19:09

let them go, and they'll find their way home. They'll

19:11

just hang out with you, and that sort of thing. One

19:14

lady called one time,

19:16

though, and there were some

19:18

folks that were up there in the winter

19:21

when they shouldn't have been, when the trail was

19:23

closed, and

19:25

she got separated from her group and

19:28

was pretty much lost and in trouble. And

19:31

the boys were up there, and somehow

19:33

they ran into her, and they led

19:36

her back to her group that was at the top of

19:38

the pinnacle. She couldn't find her way, and they brought

19:41

her back to her folks.

19:44

Another woman wrote to Perry, saying

19:46

that when her and her three-month-old puppy were hiking

19:48

the trail, Samson and Baylor

19:51

walked behind them until they reached the

19:53

top, almost like they were looking

19:55

out for the puppy. me.

20:00

Samson in particular, quote,

20:02

likes company, feels responsible

20:05

for the people hiking, and he knows his

20:07

way around. All fine

20:09

qualities in a fellow hiker, if you ask

20:11

me.

20:13

You know,

20:13

you too might be a little more laid back

20:16

than some dog owners. Well,

20:19

I think so. And like

20:21

my philosophy is that if I was

20:24

a dog, I would rather be on and my

20:26

own. Most people are OK with

20:28

that, not everybody. And

20:30

so I understand that, that some people

20:33

thought it wasn't OK for them to

20:35

be out on their own. But we just kind of felt like

20:38

it's just what you do in Vermont

20:41

and where we lived and how they conducted

20:43

themselves. They were so gentle, both

20:45

those dogs who wouldn't hurt. Oh, yeah.

20:46

Would never hurt a flea.

20:51

John and Perry's youngest daughter, Maria, told

20:53

us that when you were petting the dogs, it

20:56

was almost like you were having a conversation. She

20:59

remembers how they'd squeeze themselves underneath the

21:01

kitchen table to be with everyone

21:04

at the end of the day.

21:07

Did you find yourself at night

21:09

when they would come home looking at them

21:11

and thinking, I wonder what you saw today?

21:15

What have you been up to today? Yes.

21:18

We would look at them and be like, what did you

21:20

do? And you can only

21:22

watch them as they're sleeping

21:24

and dreaming about it. We'll

21:32

be right back.

21:44

So you open Google Chrome on your phone, you're hunting

21:46

for a super rare first edition vinyl of a band

21:49

you're obsessed with. when you're supposed

21:51

to be working. But the site you tapped

21:53

on seems pretty shady. And

21:56

Daryl from IT just jumped up from his

21:58

desk.

21:58

know. He's coming your

22:00

way. It's a good thing

22:02

built-in malware production keeps you safe and

22:05

sound. Not from Daryl though. Sorry.

22:08

There's no place like Chrome. Download

22:10

Google Chrome on your phone.

22:14

As if the McChrisspy

22:16

couldn't get any better. Bacon

22:18

and Ranch just entered the chat.

22:21

The Bacon Ranch McChrisspy. Available

22:24

and participating with Donald's for a limited time.

22:27

Ba-da-ba-ba-ba.

22:31

In 2021, a hiking

22:33

blogger wrote,

22:35

it became impossible to think of the mountain

22:38

and not also think of the dogs.

22:40

The rest of us, just tourists.

22:44

Samson and Baylor went up and down the mountain together

22:46

every day for a decade. Sam

22:48

and Baylor, man, they had each other. One

22:51

could, you know, elbow the other one and

22:53

that was all it took.

22:55

And in that regard, I don't think I

22:57

can remember a single time when

23:00

one either Sam or

23:02

Baylor went without the other one. I

23:05

don't think there was ever a time they didn't

23:07

both go.

23:08

I mean, it must be funny

23:10

to tell a dog to sit when

23:12

you realize that they've spent the last eight hours on

23:15

a journey to the top of a mountain and

23:17

back home. Yeah, it's

23:19

like, who? Yeah, why is this

23:22

dog in my life? And what am I supposed

23:24

to learn from this dog is

23:26

really how that shifted.

23:28

And I don't think it just happened with

23:30

us. I think they had enough strength

23:34

and power dynamic to help

23:37

people really slow

23:38

down. I

23:40

always thought they have such a compulsion

23:43

or such a calling

23:45

to be

23:48

up there with, It must have been for them

23:50

like

23:51

Dog Nirvana, or at least Golden Retriever,

23:54

Nirvana. But I

23:56

really felt a strong pull

23:59

from them. energetically

24:00

that

24:01

this is what they're here to

24:03

do, period. Was there

24:05

ever a time that you worried? As

24:09

they got older, I started to get a little bit

24:11

more worried about their physical capabilities

24:13

because they would stay out for long periods

24:15

of time. And you got to the point where

24:17

I would be looking at my watch going, oh

24:19

boy, you know, are they gonna make it home tonight

24:22

or not? And sometimes it would be late, but the time

24:24

they did. So we

24:26

did start to worry about that towards the end.

24:29

you're worrying grows as

24:31

the dog's age. You

24:33

know, earlier, you know,

24:35

you're thinking they're puppy, they're gonna do something dumb,

24:37

and they're gonna snag somebody's

24:40

backpack. So you

24:42

kind of, you know, as the dog grows older, you worry

24:44

a lot, but for these guys, it was mobility.

24:48

That's really the last few years we started getting

24:50

worried about whether

24:52

somebody was gonna call this time and say, you

24:55

know, you're gonna have to come up here to get the dog instead

24:57

of they're going to come down.

25:01

Baylor

25:01

slowed down first. He

25:04

died at 12.

25:08

The Burlington Free Press wrote about Baylor's

25:10

life, referring to him as

25:13

one of Stowe's famous hiking pinnacle dogs.

25:17

One hiker told a reporter, quote, they

25:21

say all dogs go to heaven. However,

25:23

I'm not sure heaven can offer

25:25

anything to Baylor than he already had

25:27

in Stowe.

25:29

After Baylor died, Samson

25:33

wouldn't go on the trail.

25:35

What I always admired about him and the process

25:38

that he went through when Baylor died was I felt

25:40

like he was true to himself. Like

25:42

I felt like he, as much as he loved

25:45

going up there, he was respectful

25:48

of his mate who

25:51

was gone. Of course, this is my human brain trying

25:53

to figure that. It just didn't make sense to him. And

25:56

he waited to go back up there at

25:58

the point that it made sense.

26:00

to him again.

26:03

And then he started going back up again when

26:05

he was ready.

26:14

How long did he take off? Probably

26:17

like... A couple

26:19

months? Yeah, yeah. He

26:22

was... We

26:24

were sure he was grieving. Were

26:27

you glad to see him try to open that door again?

26:32

In tears, lad, in tears.

26:37

At first, hikers were surprised

26:39

to see just one dog. On

26:41

Instagram, people posted photos of Samson

26:44

alone at the top of the trail. One

26:46

comment says, Keep

26:49

moving. That's all we can do. Someone

26:52

else wrote, Samson holding

26:54

down the fort.

26:57

Samson died in September of 2021, about a year

27:00

after Baylor.

27:07

What did people say? What did you hear

27:09

from people when people heard that they

27:12

had died? Oh, God.

27:16

It was unbelievable.

27:18

Just the outpouring of people coming

27:21

over and the gifts and the

27:23

stories and just

27:26

the love that so

27:29

many people shared with

27:32

us about those dogs.

27:34

And to me, it was how

27:36

the dogs taught them

27:39

something really profound.

27:40

I got a lot of texts

27:42

that I didn't recognize the numbers from,

27:46

and they were photos that these folks

27:48

had taken with the dogs at the top

27:50

of the pinnacle or wherever on the trail. So

27:53

quite a good collection of pictures I'd never

27:55

seen before, you know, that they'd heard that the

27:58

pups were gone and so they thought they'd... reach

28:00

out. So that was kind of nice.

28:05

I thought it was so interesting to see what

28:08

would an animal and a domesticated

28:11

animal like a dog do

28:14

if given the opportunity to do whatever

28:17

it wanted to do. And

28:21

this is what they chose. And

28:25

I found that to be

28:28

adorable. and also

28:30

fascinating. You

28:32

don't see many pet dogs having the opportunity

28:35

to live

28:38

their own life in the way they choose to.

28:40

So to me it was about agency

28:43

of animals. And we

28:45

don't give our pets an opportunity really,

28:47

but these dogs were given that opportunity and

28:51

they were living their best doggy life.

28:55

It seems like a real treat for those people for

28:57

those people who are able to run across these

28:59

dogs, slowly making

29:01

their way up the trail. I, kind

29:04

of a once in a lifetime thing. It

29:08

seems like that's the story that we heard

29:10

more often than not, that people

29:13

would come and kind of

29:15

have that expectation, boy, I hope they're

29:18

out today. Yeah. I hope we get to

29:20

hike with the pinnacle pups.

29:23

Ansley Floyd's short film about Samson

29:25

and Baylor is called The Mountain

29:28

Dogs. Elizabeth

29:30

Marshall Thomas, the author of

29:32

The Hidden Life of Dogs, was interviewed

29:34

in the film. She

29:36

says, dogs

29:38

can be very interesting if you watch

29:40

them carefully. This

29:53

Is Love is created by Lauren Spore

29:55

and me, Nate A. Wilson is our senior

29:57

producer. Katie Bishop is our supervising

29:59

producer.

30:00

Our producers are

30:02

Susanna Roberson, Jackie Sajiko, Libby

30:04

Foster, Lily Clark, Lena Sillison,

30:06

and Megan Knane. Our technical

30:09

director is Rob Byers, engineering

30:11

by Russ Henry. Learn

30:13

more about the show on our website, thisislovepodcast.com.

30:17

And if you like the show, tell a friend or leave

30:19

us a review. It means a lot. We're

30:22

on Facebook, Twitter, and Instagram at This

30:24

Is Love Show. This is Love

30:27

is recorded in the studios of North Carolina Public

30:29

Radio W.U.N.C.

30:30

We're part of

30:32

the Vox Media Podcast Network. Discover

30:34

more great shows at podcast.voxmedia.com.

30:39

I'm Phoebe Judge, and this is Love.