0:00

It's

0:00

time for twig this week in Google

0:02

Stacey, Jeff and Ant, are here and

0:04

man oh man, if we got news, Elon

0:07

Musk says, okay, okay, I'll buy Twitter.

0:09

I think it's all a clever ploy by

0:12

the Delaware judge. We'll talk

0:14

about the supreme court. There's a couple of cases

0:16

on the docket that will affect Twitter,

0:18

and some new Google products as

0:20

they get ready for a big event tomorrow.

0:23

It's all coming up next on twig.

0:27

podcasts you love, from

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people you trust. It's is

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twigs. This

0:39

is twig. This week in Google,

0:41

Episode six hundred eighty four recorded

0:43

Wednesday, October fifth twenty

0:45

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and response, also referred to

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as XDR. As

1:34

time for twig this week in Google,

1:37

the show we cover the latest news from well,

1:40

mostly, not must. I'll be honest with you.

1:42

We're gonna try. We're gonna We're gonna

1:44

try our try our darnness.

1:46

That is Stacey Higgins, bought them. Yay,

1:49

Stacey. stacey on I0T

1:52

dot com. You like how I worked the mic on that when

1:54

I yelled at yay. Stacey, I got way off

1:56

way off Mike. Just like Adele. I like you were

1:58

far away. Yeah. I'm doing

1:59

the Adele thing. I watched her on TV

2:02

and she goes, you know.

2:05

Someday Oh, always

2:08

love you. That kind of thing. You probably

2:10

don't wanna be in the receiving end of a full adult

2:12

belt. No. I imagine it's overwhelming. a hell

2:14

of a belt. Stacey on IoT is

2:16

her fabulous website. get the newsletter there.

2:18

It's free, check the events and, of course, subscribe

2:21

to the IoT podcast AC

2:23

does with Kevin Toefl. And I can guess

2:25

what that's gonna be all about this week.

2:27

I guess, but we'll get to that in a moment.

2:29

Then to my left,

2:31

the Leonard TAO professor for

2:34

Journal of Information At

2:44

the City University of New York, Harvey

2:46

Moss. Jürgen Harbor --

2:48

Random. -- I just I just arrived

2:50

today. Yeah. Is it your lawyer structural

2:52

model? Yeah. If it's a Kate, aunt,

2:55

the deliverative, politics. Yeah.

2:57

So IIIII have to know what this

2:59

says. I I really do. It arrives, and

3:01

then I finally discovered the translation. Oh,

3:03

nuts. But this is good because we're

3:05

practicing in your German. Yeah. It's good for your

3:07

brain. Facebook looks smart. Yeah. Michael,

3:09

who studies, he's, like, in German for now,

3:11

gets German

3:13

magazine called Dear Fenster. The

3:16

window the window into to German

3:18

land, that's

3:19

really it's fun. It's a good way breed

3:22

in Germans, a good way to practice. Somebody

3:25

does not need to practice his photography. Mister

3:27

Hanzo, photography himself and What?

3:30

Oh, I definitely don't need to practice

3:32

my photography. That's how you that's how you stay

3:34

good. Not just get

3:36

good. How you stay good? I thought you're gonna

3:39

have to practice your German ant. I was

3:41

like, wow. Do not practice New

3:43

Jersey. Oh, I'll be I'll be more than happy to practice

3:45

German. As long as it includes German cuisine,

3:49

Anybody here played the best?

3:52

I played the very best.

3:54

Yeah. I'm bad. Anybody following I'm

3:58

trying to figure out what's going on with the chest

3:59

candle. I can't does it does it really

4:02

include AI and buck plugs? I

4:04

I was gonna say I heard something that's pretty

4:07

They can't they can't figure out.

4:09

So here's the thing. I

4:11

think we've mentioned this before, but now

4:13

it's in the steamed Wall Street Journal, so

4:15

it must be true. There's

4:18

a guy, a young kid, he's nineteen, and

4:21

Hans Neiman. He's actually from the

4:23

San Francisco Scobey area via,

4:26

I think, Holland. But

4:29

he's grown up in the US.

4:30

Wall Street Journal is now

4:33

reporting on a study

4:35

by chess dot com. Actually, let me find

4:37

the journal.

4:38

article here because this is this is not from

4:41

the journal. On the story from chess

4:43

dot com,

4:44

the Chess dot

4:47

com is the number one online gaming

4:50

site for chess players. I'm I'm a

4:52

member. It's a paid site. there's a free

4:54

one. This is probably just as good called lie chest,

4:56

but LICHESS but chest

4:58

dot com is one of the biggest. There

5:00

is a list a little bit of a

5:02

conflict of interest here because they are about to

5:04

acquire the world champion

5:06

Magnus Carlson's site chest twenty

5:09

four dot com or merge with it. So

5:11

they're in a financial relationship with Magnus

5:13

Carlson. This began when Magnus

5:15

Carlson was playing Young Hans.

5:17

and a Saint Louis Chest tournament called the Singfield

5:20

Cup very, very big time. Top

5:22

Grand Master tournament was kind of an

5:24

amazing thing for Hunt's name and who's

5:27

risen through the ranks and become grand master

5:29

in a amazingly rapid

5:31

way. Neiman

5:35

who had The

5:37

black pieces surprisingly

5:40

defeated the world champion who

5:42

is not only much more highly rated, but

5:44

of course, the world champion,

5:48

at which point Magnus Carlson, the world

5:50

champion withdrew from the tournament

5:52

with the saying nothing but with

5:54

the implication that Neiman had cheated.

5:58

Then he played him another

6:00

game later in which he resigned

6:02

after one move, again, a symbolic

6:04

resignation to say, I'm not

6:06

gonna play this guy because this guy

6:08

cheats. He finally did admit that that's what the problem

6:11

was. Chest dot com did a

6:13

big investigation. The way they investigate

6:15

now is high. Here's the thing. None

6:17

of this cheating has occurred

6:19

in the past, but it was on the level

6:21

of the I think it was

6:23

it was one of the car park world

6:25

championship matches where his

6:27

opponent said

6:29

he's lucky staring at me. It

6:32

was it was on that level. He

6:35

gets up every move, and and it's

6:37

making me nervous. Bobby Fisher

6:39

famously said, these cameras they're

6:41

worrying, and the Russians have put

6:43

things in the lights to

6:45

to distract me. It was at that

6:47

level. But now that computers

6:49

can play better than any human life

6:51

literally, You could put a

6:53

computer on your on your Pixel six

6:56

that will beat the best will beat Magnus

6:58

Karlsson ten out of ten times. you

7:00

know, the best players, those

7:03

computers now can be used effectively to

7:05

cheat even at the highest levels. The

7:07

problem is how you get that moves from the

7:09

computer. at the highest levels,

7:11

Magnus Carlson, Hans Neumann, even

7:14

a little help at a couple of critical

7:16

junctures, could

7:18

make a huge difference. That's

7:21

how tight these games are, how

7:23

how very, very good they are,

7:26

these players are. So

7:28

you wouldn't have to like be going to the

7:30

bathroom every five moves to look at your phone.

7:32

You could be just getting a signal from

7:34

somebody every one or two, like, Pointing

7:40

it. Right. Move the night. And that

7:42

might be enough to shift the whole game.

7:44

Right? So there's been that

7:46

mower currently. So

7:51

chest dot com A

7:54

couple of weeks ago, fired

7:56

Neiman. They said, you can't play here anymore.

7:59

Neiman had admitted when he was young twelve and

8:01

sixteen. He's oh, this is the other side of this. He's a

8:03

twitch streamer. So he's very well known

8:05

and has a lot of fans in

8:07

that community. he

8:11

admitted when he was twelve and sixteen,

8:13

he says, young, I didn't know. Sixteen, he's three

8:15

three years older now. He said, yeah, I

8:17

cheated on some online games. I've never cheated

8:19

over the board like in person. Chest

8:22

dot com had banned him in the past. They now

8:24

have fully banned him from that site. And

8:26

everybody said, well, why? And for a wild

8:28

chest dot com said, we're not gonna release this study. They

8:30

finally did, and the Wall Street Journal has seen

8:32

it. I guess they didn't release it publicly,

8:34

but the journal has seen the internal report,

8:36

in which Chest dot

8:38

com found that Neman

8:40

had likely cheated more than a hundred

8:43

games. By the way, all of these

8:45

online. They have no

8:47

allegation to these parts. So far, it's all it looks

8:49

all online.

8:50

the But there

8:53

have

8:53

been, you know, there's a lot of statistics

8:55

and there's back and forth. If you

8:57

follow the chest subreted

8:59

On Reddit, you'll you'll

9:01

see, you know, they're fans of both

9:04

that all the grand masters are now starting

9:06

to weigh in. It's my

9:08

opinion that it's pretty clear that

9:10

Neiman was up to something. But the

9:12

question was how did he cheat in the Singfield

9:15

cup? How did he beat the best player in

9:17

the world? And then, by the way, the other

9:19

kind of smoking gun is after the

9:21

game, he's doing an interview and he doesn't

9:23

seem to understand the game at all.

9:25

It's like, he's talking about it. He's now

9:27

analyzing the moves and he's wrong. It's

9:29

like, no. Well, that wouldn't that's

9:31

what? So that's a

9:33

little bit of a smoking gun like -- Yeah.

9:35

even know what he was doing.

9:37

But

9:37

they and I talked about this

9:40

before. They did a couple of things to the live

9:42

stream. They, you know, they livestream

9:44

these, live live. and so you could have a

9:46

confederate at home watching the livestream

9:48

somehow getting information to

9:50

you. Maybe a confederate sitting there's a

9:52

live audience in what as well sitting

9:54

in live audience going. You need me? I'm tugging Are

9:56

you gonna get are you gonna get to the to the

9:58

speculation? I'm getting there now. I'm

10:00

almost there right now. Okay.

10:02

Right? I'm so close. So the

10:05

same field cup folks delayed

10:08

the life heat by fifteen minutes.

10:10

They also took a long time to

10:12

scan him for electronics. Now

10:14

notice Neiman has bushy hair.

10:16

So it's possible

10:18

he's concealing something up there. But

10:21

then some were saying, well, you know, in

10:23

fact, there isn't a well known chest

10:25

cheating incident with a guy having

10:27

something in his shoe. That

10:29

would that would vibrate in

10:31

a code because you because you

10:33

can't Maxwell Smart. Yeah. You can't I

10:35

mean, you could, and it has happened that people would go to the

10:37

bathroom and look at their phone, but they're pretty

10:39

they'll let you have your at this level, they'll let you have

10:41

your phone and they keep an eye on you and so forth.

10:44

So they scan them with electronic

10:46

scanners and stuff. They took a long time,

10:48

like, fifteen minutes. found

10:50

nothing. He did not win the tournament, by the way. He was

10:53

he he took the lead by beating Carlson, but

10:55

it immediately declined after that. and

10:57

this is the other kind of smoking gun is

10:59

that's the pattern of his career. He plays

11:01

exceptionally well sometimes

11:03

and somewhat poorly. He's not a

11:05

bad player. He's a very, very good player

11:08

without the aid of a computer even.

11:10

But is he that good? he's so good?

11:12

Is he a world class player? Is he top

11:14

player? And I it's my opinion, though, that he's

11:16

cheating somehow. We can't figure out. So this is

11:18

where the butt plug comes

11:20

in. They can't figure

11:22

out exactly Just butt plug,

11:24

but AI and butt plug. We have we

11:26

have reached the Apotheosis of

11:28

all technology world panic and

11:30

story. There needs to be a way to signal

11:32

him for his story. And again, you don't have single

11:34

him on every I don't know if that's exactly

11:37

moral panic. But think of the

11:39

children. No. That's wrong. The the

11:41

you don't have again, you don't have to cheat every move. You don't have to

11:43

get the move from the computer every time. Just

11:45

maybe a couple of times a game just at a critical

11:48

juncture. You need to know.

11:50

And and and Neiman Carlson

11:53

knowing he was gonna play Neiman played the line, he'd

11:55

never had played before. So one of the things Grand

11:57

Master's do before tournament is they prepare

11:59

for their opponent looking every literally,

12:01

every game they've ever played to understand what

12:03

openings they use. Carlson played

12:05

an opening he'd never played before, Neiman was

12:07

prepared, not only for that opening, but found a

12:09

novelty, which is very rare. He

12:11

says, oh, yes. It was weird. I

12:13

was studying that this

12:15

morning, like, that's his excuse. Pretty

12:18

clear he got a signal. But, how? We

12:20

couldn't find anything in his hair. We couldn't find

12:22

anything in his shoes. We're

12:25

aware. I don't

12:27

think honestly that a vibrating butt

12:29

plug you know, it'd be hard to hide

12:31

your reaction to that. Right.

12:34

So in time of the opinion, he

12:36

had a confederate. In fact,

12:38

once they stopped this they they stopped

12:40

the livestreaming delayed by fifteen

12:42

minutes, he didn't play as well. It's my in fact, he tends

12:44

to play much better whenever there's a livestream.

12:46

My opinion, he had a confederate who was somehow

12:48

signaling him, you

12:49

know, through

12:51

it. But again, we don't know this somehow. We

12:53

have there is and this is

12:55

in Neiman's defense. No

12:57

one's found the proof of

12:58

this at all ever. Yes.

13:00

A chip is. A smoking plug.

13:02

Smoking. Oh.

13:07

See, I thought you're not even choosing

13:09

yourself. It's so. Anyway,

13:11

I'm leading with that

13:13

so we can deploy a deferred

13:16

talking about it. Have we got a show

13:18

title already? We

13:20

have so many exciting things.

13:23

Google launched a bunch of devices

13:25

They're updated their home

13:27

thing. There's matter. There's so much

13:29

to

13:29

talk about Then there's Elon. And

13:31

then we'll get to Elon a little bit, but the matter

13:34

is now get it. Matter is now official.

13:36

We I have

13:38

I just I think it was you who

13:40

debunks the notion that matter was

13:42

gonna matter. Stacey?

13:44

Well, so I I explained and if

13:46

you scroll all the way down, we have a list of

13:49

stories just to explain.

13:51

But, like, matter is not gonna

13:53

be as exciting as everybody wants it.

13:55

It's a lower layer, you're

13:57

saying. Yeah. Five ways matter

13:59

will disappear. my

13:59

users at launch. That's nice.

14:02

So

14:03

so that's that's the like, you could but

14:05

it does matter, and it matters

14:07

because it is going to

14:09

be a low layer of interoperability.

14:11

And anytime you have a layer of

14:13

interoperability, that's good.

14:15

Now, would I like it to be a little

14:17

bit higher? By now, yes.

14:19

When they launched it back in

14:21

twenty nineteen,

14:21

what they were offering was pretty pretty

14:24

awesome. But, you know, It's

14:26

I have to apologize. We've kinda launched into

14:28

this without any product.

14:31

Matter is a joint

14:33

venture of Microsoft, Google,

14:35

Apple, No. No.

14:36

Who's Microsoft to start upon? Microsoft

14:38

support. Matter and matter.

14:40

Google Apple, Zigbee, Z Wave.

14:43

Nope. No. Here we go. Let's

14:45

try again. It

14:48

is Google, Apple, Amazon,

14:51

Samsung, Those are the

14:53

big four. And then there's, like,

14:55

five hundred and forty other companies,

14:57

like, on the chip side, on the other,

14:59

like, SignifAI, Nordic's

15:01

semiconductors, Silicon Labs, Infineon,

15:03

all these companies, Microsoft is

15:05

actually not a member. Is

15:07

ZP or Z Wave a member?

15:09

So

15:09

The

15:10

Zigbee alliance matter was

15:13

created originally as project

15:15

connected home over IP, project chip. It

15:17

was part of the Zigbee alliance.

15:19

Like Zigbee is one of the two best

15:22

known

15:22

protocols. for Zigbee

15:24

is a wireless protocol for the

15:26

smartphone. Z Wave isn't And this is all about smart

15:29

home home automation?

15:31

Yes.

15:31

This is this is an interoperability protocol

15:34

for the smart home. So the Zigbee

15:36

alliance was like, will crap. We're

15:38

gonna call this whole thing matter. And

15:41

Zigbee isn't really part of matter because

15:43

it's not. So should

15:45

change our name. So they now call themselves the

15:47

connectivity standards alliance.

15:50

They still have Zigbee under there.

15:52

umbrella. But Zigbee and Z

15:55

Wave, they won't go utterly away

15:57

for a long time, but they are

15:59

definitely on the the

15:59

back end. Does this Resideo

16:02

three b and z wave?

16:04

Yes. Sort of. Okay. So

16:06

instead of using something like Zigbee

16:08

or Z Wave, which are both

16:10

like low power, low data rate mesh

16:12

networks in the home. You're gonna

16:14

use thread and thread was actually

16:16

created back in twenty fourteen

16:19

by Google, Samsung,

16:22

a couple other companies. And

16:25

so thread is now

16:27

your low data rate

16:30

mesh

16:30

protocol for the smart

16:31

home, and then WiFi is gonna

16:33

be everything else, anything

16:35

with battery, etcetera. So

16:37

you'll

16:37

have those, and then Bluetooth, is

16:39

going be how

16:40

you provision your devices. So you'll

16:42

do something like Bluetooth lily to

16:44

communicate initially with a brand new

16:46

device get it set up, get it welcomed into

16:48

the thread in WiFi networks, and from

16:50

then on, you could communicate with it.

16:52

Right.

16:53

And then you're gonna do

16:55

that QR code matters gonna make that super

16:57

easy instead of having, like, soft

16:59

APs. I don't know if y'all remember, like, sometimes

17:01

you used to have, like, you

17:03

would have a device that would create its own WiFi network

17:05

and then your phone would be like, okay. They're like,

17:07

turn off your WiFi on your phone and then connect

17:09

to this extra special

17:10

WiFi network for you.

17:12

so hard. It was awful. That's what's going

17:15

on. How we still do it ninety nine

17:17

point nine percent of the time? And this doesn't take it

17:19

over yet. It

17:20

isn't so any matter device though, you're gonna get

17:22

the matter device. And if you've ever used home

17:24

kit or some of the newer devices where they're

17:27

just like, hey, open the app,

17:29

scan the QR code, and it's like, boom.

17:31

Is this your WiFi network into your password? You're

17:33

like, boom. And then it's like, I

17:35

found it. That's

17:36

how many manufacturers have attempted

17:38

to get around this ridiculous setup.

17:41

Amazon stores your WiFi

17:43

and passwords in your account. And then when you get new

17:45

Amazon device, it says it's okay if I I

17:47

happen to know a friend who knows a friend

17:49

who knows how to log in.

17:51

and you say, oh, okay. And it just

17:53

gets on. Apple uses

17:56

subsonic sound to

17:58

communicate from its Apple TV

18:00

to Apple devices.

18:02

So there people understand

18:04

the setup process is awful. And

18:06

I guess the hope is maybe we

18:08

can make this a standard

18:11

process across all devices. The

18:13

setup

18:13

process is gonna be easy. If you buy

18:15

a matter of device, getting it on your network is

18:17

actually gonna work. It's gonna be good. So

18:19

that's awesome. The other thing that's gonna

18:21

be awesome is if you have a matter

18:23

device, you're gonna be like, oh,

18:25

it doesn't matter if I live in

18:28

a madam a or an Amazon Echo Home System

18:30

or a Home Depot Home System.

18:32

It doesn't

18:32

matter. It's all gonna work. Okay.

18:35

So is this Those are all gonna be great. backward compatible, Stacy,

18:37

or is this only new devices?

18:40

It depends. So -- That's

18:42

what you're gonna say.

18:43

-- uses I know. Nothing

18:45

can be A lot of the Google stuff we

18:47

have already has threatened it. Right?

18:50

Yes.

18:53

So things that have Zigbee radios

18:55

and enough hardware and the manufacturer

18:57

willing to update it can go

18:59

into can be, like,

19:01

retroactively. So thread uses the same

19:03

frequency as Zigbee did.

19:05

It uses the same i triple e protocol. So

19:08

the underlying wireless, it's 802

19:10

dot four Oh, it's a star. fifteen

19:13

dot dot fifteen four.

19:15

Okay. Which is the same underlying standard of

19:17

Zigbee. Okay. So basically, it's the same

19:19

radio you just layer Zigbee or

19:20

matter software on top. So -- Or thread

19:23

two. -- in the in the OSI

19:25

networking model, the

19:26

seven layer cake that

19:29

is networking. You have

19:30

Yeah. So thread is We're

19:32

we're about The thread would be layer three.

19:34

It matters layer five because it's

19:37

at the patient there.

19:37

Oh, that's important. So threat is

19:39

a standard. Just like

19:41

Zigbee. It's the i triple e

19:44

standard. that's that's

19:44

at the low level level layer three. And

19:47

on two layers up

19:49

is an application protocol. And

19:51

that's what That's that's what

19:53

matter is as an application protocol. It's

19:55

pretty high up in the stack. It's

19:57

super high

19:57

up in the stack. And what it is is

19:59

it's basically it's a

20:01

data it's a data framework. So all

20:03

that matter is going to do. This is how you

20:05

should conceptualize it for the devices

20:08

it supports. This version

20:10

supports most devices, but it

20:12

doesn't support things like small appliances, it

20:14

doesn't support video, so your video doorbell

20:16

or cameras are not part of this.

20:18

But for the devices supports, it's going to do things

20:20

like, hi, I'm a

20:21

plug. I am on

20:24

or I

20:24

am off. Hi. I'm a light

20:27

bulb. I'm on. I'm off. I'm

20:29

this color. I'm dimmed to

20:31

this level, whatever. And all of that will be

20:33

standard across no matter any

20:35

matter device can

20:35

read and understand and talk to each other that way. Right. We

20:37

have a standard messaging protocol.

20:40

And a way of simple This is these

20:42

are the things I understand.

20:45

and these this is how you me to do something. This is

20:47

yeah. I mean, this is what object oriented programming

20:50

is trying to solve by saying you

20:52

you build these black boxes and

20:54

then you've established interface on how to query

20:57

them. And -- So if you're like -- with them

20:59

and so forth. Yeah. And

21:00

if you're like

21:01

any normal human being, you're like,

21:03

Oh my god, Stacey. I don't care

21:06

about WiFi and But you do. What a cause

21:08

of stats. Oh, but you do not care. There's

21:10

nothing that works. Right. Well,

21:12

here's here's what you should know as a

21:14

consumer today. They're

21:16

going to so

21:18

this week, the CSA

21:20

said, hey, matter version one

21:22

is now official in its

21:24

out. They also said that there are

21:26

about four thousand devices from

21:29

our existing members that are actually already

21:31

ready and certified because they've been doing

21:33

all that work this summer. other

21:36

people can start the certification process,

21:39

so we are going to see matter

21:41

devices instantly

21:42

pretty much. So that's what the news is is

21:45

that this protocol is now in

21:47

version one o. It's official. Yes.

21:49

That's Version one point o. That

21:51

is our news. Right.

21:52

you're gonna see things like

21:54

like Google this week

21:57

also announced a bunch of devices

21:59

and

21:59

some of those like in

22:02

Amazon last week and it's devices, they announced

22:04

things that were matter certified. You should

22:06

also pay attention because not

22:08

only from kind of

22:10

the the the

22:10

digital assistance and your routers and those

22:12

kind of things, you'll be looking for, like, is

22:14

it matter certified? That means I can talk to

22:16

all these devices. You should also look for

22:18

in your routers and digital assistants, is

22:21

it a thread border router.

22:23

And what that will do is that is

22:25

gonna let your thread devices

22:27

and that's that low power sensors, all of those

22:29

things, talk to your

22:31

WiFi network. So that gets

22:34

them back onto the WiFi network and

22:36

talking to all the other things that use

22:38

WiFi.

22:38

Does that matter to security?

22:40

Yes, it does. I'm

22:42

so glad you asked. It offers

22:45

encryption. So

22:47

to I love the the one of the really

22:50

good things about matter, I may be kind of poo

22:52

pooing like advanced use cases, which it

22:54

won't be good at right away. But it does

22:56

it's one of the first standards that

22:58

offers basic security as part

23:01

of it. So any matter device is gonna have encryption.

23:03

It's going to require some sort of secure

23:05

enclave, and it's gonna require a certification

23:07

process. So when you

23:09

have a matter device and you bring it under your

23:11

network, it checks back and it's like, hey,

23:14

is this legit? And they'll have a

23:16

certificate, and the

23:16

certificate will go to the authority and says, surgical

23:19

authority and say, yes, it is and it will come

23:21

back and be like, yes, it is and you'll be like,

23:23

sweet. So that

23:25

Is this an improvement then

23:27

over? So in other words, should I look for

23:29

matter instead of say Apple Home Kit,

23:31

which we've recommended in the past?

23:33

Yes. It's a kind of a somewhat

23:35

of a guarantee of us. Obviously, it doesn't do

23:38

everything but of a certain level of

23:40

security and capability. and interoper and

23:42

more importantly interoperability. Yeah. And they

23:44

took

23:44

a lot of like, many of the things

23:46

that Apple has been focused on.

23:49

So things

23:51

like local control. Apple's always been way

23:53

ahead of the game on that when compared to,

23:55

like, Google or Amazon. Right? So

23:57

they they definitely push that. The QR

23:59

code is actually how home kit devices get online, so they borrowed

24:02

that from Apple. There's a lot

24:04

inside

24:06

matter that comes

24:08

from Apple, which I think a lot of people would

24:10

really appreciate. Howard Bauchner:

24:11

Scooter X has reminded

24:13

me of this story, this earlier this week

24:15

that ratio, which is the home automation

24:18

sprinkler system, has

24:20

stopped using home

24:22

kit. Because home kit can't

24:24

resolve this no response error

24:26

that users are getting.

24:28

So -- Yeah. -- you know,

24:30

you might say, oh, well, Apple must really get

24:32

this and be able to do it better than anyone.

24:35

No. Nobody nobody's

24:37

really solved this problem. Yeah.

24:39

And Apple's Home kit I mean, like, depending on

24:41

when because Home kit went through a bunch of iterations. I

24:43

don't know. At the very beginning, y'all may

24:45

not remember this, but you actually had to

24:48

have, like, an MFI certification

24:48

and you special hardware. Right. It's

24:50

very expensive. It's very expensive. meaningful. Yeah.

24:53

They eliminated that hardware requirement a

24:55

few years ago. That was a big -- They

24:58

did. Yeah. But they kind

24:59

of brought some of that back. So part of the

25:01

hardware was security and having a secure

25:03

enclave on the device, and now you have

25:05

that with these. So Again,

25:07

the I mean Does

25:08

does matter require any what

25:10

does matter

25:11

require for certification? Does not require

25:13

a special chipset or anything like

25:15

that? Well, you have

25:17

to have I mean, you have

25:18

to have WiFi and or You

25:21

have certain capabilities. You

25:23

have a thread rate on the WiFi radio Bluetooth l a. You have

25:25

to have an

25:25

all the chip vendors are gonna

25:27

offer matter certified chips.

25:29

So there will be a Qualcomm system

25:31

on a chip that will give

25:32

you the matter stack.

25:34

Or Yeah.

25:35

I don't know if Qualcomm's participating at

25:37

this level, but Nordic, Infineon,

25:40

NXP -- Okay. -- Silicon Labs,

25:41

I should mention that almost all

25:43

of those companies have been sponsors of my show

25:45

at some point in time. And some of them are current

25:47

sponsors. Here's a great question for my or

25:49

IRC. We probably should have asked right at the

25:51

beginning. What is the what's

25:54

the problem matters

25:57

trying to solve?

25:58

What what question has been the answer

26:01

for? It's

26:02

going to Best Buy and staring

26:04

there and saying, oh man.

26:07

I want a smart plug, and I

26:09

have a Google home.

26:10

Not that what I'm looking at all these things

26:12

will be. Instead of plug.

26:14

Let's have let's imagine that. This won't

26:17

switch. Okay? I

26:18

would like I was how about a

26:20

a thermostat? Or

26:21

So hands on to walk into

26:23

a home depot. Yes. And

26:26

they already they they're a

26:28

home kit user. Let's say they're a home kit user.

26:31

And instead of looking for home

26:33

kit stuff, now you can look

26:35

for matter stuff. And there's gonna

26:36

be more of it because remember home kit was kind

26:38

of a pain. And you'll no

26:41

longer, like, if let's say you you

26:43

bought the the bright lines,

26:45

but now you're like, oh, I want a thermostat.

26:47

And then you're like, oh, I want this thermostat.

26:49

Then you're like, does this work with my

26:51

ecosystem? I don't know. So that's what it

26:53

was solving. So it's solving

26:55

interoperability. It's also solving

26:57

a reliability issue because

27:00

thread and having this high

27:02

quality mesh network in the home,

27:04

hopefully, is going to make things work a little

27:06

bit better. And because a lot of these

27:08

devices will have local control If

27:10

you have a device whose cloud connection

27:12

dies, let's say you have a device that

27:14

its maker goes away. For

27:16

basic functionality, it will retain that

27:18

because it is part of the matter because it's

27:20

speaking that same data model and can still give

27:22

those local commands. Right? So that'll help

27:25

there and then security. having

27:27

that level of security and certification. Those

27:30

are the problems that

27:30

solve. Well, we'll watch

27:33

with interest, and of course, Stacey really is our

27:35

IoT ex pert. And as

27:37

you can tell, it's gonna take an IoT expert to

27:40

automate your home. And

27:43

and just Well, that's like,

27:45

you won't need an expert eventually. Like, I think

27:48

this eventually is this

27:50

important. So

27:50

I think this year for the holidays, you'll

27:52

see matter, like, you could get your

27:54

You could get

27:56

your in laws or someone you

27:59

know, if you wanna

27:59

get

27:59

on the smart lights that they could control with

28:02

the voice system. You could get them the voice speaker, and then you could

28:04

get the light bulbs. And you'll know

28:06

they'll just be easy to set up and work together.

28:08

That's a huge step right there. So

28:10

this is solving stuff. really

28:12

soon. And I thought you were saying that it's not

28:14

gonna handle a lot of things right

28:16

out the gate. So this is all done.

28:18

the common stuff right now.

28:20

It'll look

28:21

it'll get you some devices up and

28:23

running. If you're like me and you have like

28:25

eighty devices and you're gonna transfer a bunch

28:27

of them over, you've got complex

28:30

automations?

28:32

No. I'm gonna place an order

28:34

all this month. Right.

28:36

Okay. So, Stacey, you

28:38

know, I I think that the

28:40

confusion has been a big market limiter for a

28:42

long time since the beginning -- Mhmm. --

28:44

of IoT. Right? So

28:48

if you were gonna predict market size, if

28:50

you're gonna if you're gonna draw a

28:52

a chart, is it hockey, sticky, is it

28:55

just A little happier. How much of a difference

28:57

does this make to the market? You

29:00

know,

29:00

you know Google in

29:01

their thing on Monday

29:03

when I

29:04

talked them about that. the very first night.

29:07

Sorry. I don't know what the hell. It was a fifty

29:09

three billion dollar market.

29:11

I do. as

29:15

So I don't

29:16

I don't think it's hockey stick

29:18

ish. Well,

29:20

maybe it is over the longer term. What tends to

29:22

happen is people buy, like, a

29:24

use case. So I think we'll see a

29:26

lot of people buying, like, connected

29:29

lights. or plugs that are now finally easy. Right? And then they'll

29:31

be like, oh, I could totally do this, and then they'll

29:33

go out and buy more stuff. So

29:36

Also, I think, like,

29:39

with the economic kind of current economic

29:41

conditions, I think it's kinda

29:42

hard to imagine people,

29:44

like, But I

29:45

think you'll see people, like, maybe they

29:47

show they'll have three devices. And by the end

29:49

of next year, they're gonna have, like, eight

29:52

devices.

29:52

And then So all one of this really

29:54

realistic. how long

29:55

before you can be on the show and

29:58

look back and say, I told you this was

29:59

gonna be so easy your grandmother could

30:02

do it. Well, I

30:03

think, I mean, I think that'll happen,

30:05

like, in a couple

30:07

months.

30:07

really Really? I

30:08

really do. Like, I think the

30:10

the use cases that your grandmother

30:12

wants to do. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Your point before. Yeah.

30:14

Yeah. If you just wanna buy one thing for

30:17

grandma. Okay. Well,

30:18

even if you want to I mean, like If you

30:19

want to win a tennis I mean, a a

30:21

chess tournament, you know. So Hey. I didn't finish

30:23

the chess thing, by the way. Can we go back

30:25

to that. There's

30:28

one more thing I forgot to mention.

30:30

The US championship started today.

30:32

In fact, round one is going on right

30:34

now. Neman is playing. He's about to

30:36

win his first game, two hundred

30:38

sixty two thousand dollars at stake. And

30:41

there is a lot of speculation

30:43

around this and a lot of attention

30:45

on on this tournament. So

30:48

that Hans Neumann story is not over

30:50

yet and and the

30:52

US championship is gonna be a very

30:54

interesting couple Can we hear thirty

30:56

seconds of the commentary? You wanna hear how exciting

30:58

it is? Go ahead. Let's just

31:00

let's just turn my me as well. The

31:02

problem, of course, is This is Yes,

31:04

sir. Sarah watches. so strong. Long

31:06

time, you guys get rid of it by plane.

31:09

Bishop takes. And if I take on It's like

31:11

golf without grass. Yes. I'm just

31:13

not getting sufficient compensation

31:15

anymore. So perhaps a more practical

31:18

is to take on f five and then go night to d

31:20

four and try to break it

31:22

down. Okay. Okay, mister

31:24

Jarvis. That's nice. I got got all I

31:26

needed. I got you. Honestly, this isn't

31:28

very interesting because he is about to win his

31:30

very first game. I

31:32

mean, the best way for Hans Neiman

31:34

to prove everybody wrong

31:36

is to not cheat and win the US

31:39

championship. And then everybody's just gonna have to

31:41

eat their words. How will they know whether he didn't

31:43

cheat or Well -- Right. -- I'm hoping it's the same

31:45

place. Cavanaugh search. Cavanaugh

31:47

search. Yeah. Well, you might be might

31:49

not be joking. actually. I

31:51

don't know. Yeah. You know,

31:52

certainly You know what? You could run a a,

31:55

like, a a WiFi disruptor

31:56

or something. You could just shut down the network.

31:58

Yeah. you got a no live audience and no

32:01

live stream. There are ways to

32:03

absolutely prevent this. And,

32:05

you know, I mean,

32:08

It's very it's very interesting. There are there are ways you

32:10

can after the game and analyze it

32:13

to determine whether he played like

32:15

a human. Believe

32:17

it or not. That's a that's a whole story for now.

32:19

Can you well, can you can you let me

32:21

ask a different question. Can

32:24

you You find you don't

32:26

cheat, but you use AI to

32:28

teach you new methods that no one kind of

32:30

ever thought of before. That is that how you potentially find That's

32:32

how all Gremesh now do it. You can They

32:35

do use a computer away

32:37

from the

32:37

board, and they all do that now.

32:40

They use

32:40

in fact, it's really this man machine

32:43

sentor like symbiosis for

32:46

all the best players. You know, you

32:48

always have with your super chant super

32:50

grand master. you

32:52

have a entourage of two or three

32:54

other lesser grand masters who work

32:56

with you to train, to

32:58

develop new lines, to Analyze

33:00

your opponent. Match on the back and bring you a

33:02

towel, stuff like that. And Right.

33:04

Yeah. Now computers are very much part of that.

33:06

Often on your team, you'll have somebody who's a

33:08

computer chess expert. who is also working with you

33:10

on this. So, yeah, computers have become a

33:12

big part of it, but in a in a

33:14

positive way,

33:15

the I

33:16

mean, you know, if you look, if you

33:19

can channel the computer, you're gonna always

33:21

win. But what's the point? That's --

33:23

Yeah. -- that's not fun.

33:25

And it's it's it's one of the few human

33:27

endeavors where a computer actually

33:30

is a hundred percent better than

33:32

humans. Just, you

33:33

know, It's

33:35

done. It's

33:36

over. Same at boarding school as the same checkers.

33:38

A lot of a lot of games. Anyway,

33:40

I'm

33:40

watching I'll be watching this with interest. So you

33:42

can continue How do you know he's winning at her?

33:44

The computer says he's got a ninety

33:46

six point four percent chance to win. You're

33:49

cheating. Let's see. If I got anything I knew

33:51

by looking. Actually, I haven't

33:53

really looked at it that hard. He's

33:55

got a very strong he's Neiman is

33:57

black. He's got a very strong

33:59

attack against white.

34:01

doesn't

34:01

look like

34:03

he has a material

34:05

advantage. Well, I guess he does. He has he he's up what they

34:08

call the

34:10

exchange. He's

34:10

like a pawn up. But, yeah, the computer says he has very

34:12

little chance of losing and almost a

34:15

hundred percent chance of winning. There's his move. That's

34:17

what it looks like. It's so

34:20

exciting when they make us

34:21

to Jarvis? Yeah.

34:25

Really? I got one more question.

34:27

I got one more question. Yeah. So

34:30

in terms of the of the butt plug, players

34:38

potentially move more than one part. Right? See, you know, he keeps

34:40

his hand on it completely his eyes. Yeah. So it's what they

34:42

call touch pieces. As soon as you touch a piece, you're

34:44

required to move it. You can

34:46

sit there. Can you move back? Can

34:48

you No. Hell no. What do you Why

34:50

does he hold his hand on it for a

34:52

second? Oh, yeah. He can move back, but he now has to move that piece. Yes.

34:54

He can. It's, you know, what? It's kind of

34:56

the way sometimes they do that. And if you were cheating, you

34:58

might do that as well to make it That's what

35:02

I'm saying. You say you think here's the choice. No. No. The other

35:04

way. Right? That was some of the other thing

35:06

accusations where he

35:08

seems so Carlson said he didn't

35:10

didn't seem like he was paying

35:12

attention. Usually, if somebody's beating

35:14

me, they're working really hard to

35:16

beat me. and

35:17

he didn't seem like he was, you know, doing anything. He's

35:19

just kinda sitting there. He's got a

35:21

pretty strong game right now. He's he's

35:23

kinda moving in on this one. So that's it.

35:25

It's exciting. Well, I don't like that statement of they look like

35:27

they're working hard to be me because

35:30

Well, it's just it's just like saying

35:32

everybody mourns

35:34

same way. No. It's not like that. Because you if you were

35:36

if your son's running and attract me and

35:38

the other guy's a lot of

35:42

weddings. Mhmm. He's not He's

35:44

a robot. I mean, there

35:46

is no way to cheat and then drag me well, I guess,

35:48

sir. But You know, there are

35:50

ways to the cheap, like, attendees and so forth. Right. Some

35:52

athletes, you know, they're just

35:54

just ice ball. Yeah. No. This

35:56

this we're not talking that.

35:58

I mean, there's

36:00

you and it's estimated these guys

36:02

in A5434 hour match. That's how

36:04

long they play usually as long as

36:06

six hours. burn

36:07

of, you know, like, three thousand calories.

36:09

It's and without moving, it's

36:12

--

36:12

Yeah. -- there's a lot of brain activity,

36:14

mentally taxing, very mentally taxing.

36:17

And and this attack, which is gonna

36:19

come down the h file,

36:21

is gonna be devastating for White King, and

36:23

that's all I could say about that.

36:25

To your credit, sir,

36:27

this is not the Saduku you

36:29

made us watch. Is this

36:31

better than Saduku? Thank goodness.

36:34

This is so much better than that. All

36:36

of this. Yes, it is. All of this has

36:38

simply been an attempt to avoid

36:41

the elephant in the room. But we're

36:44

gonna take a break when we come back.

36:46

Yes. It looks like Elon is

36:48

buying Twitter.

36:50

What the

36:50

Notice I'm I'm I'm in mourning.

36:52

I'm wearing black again. Ugh. I'm

36:54

wearing black. black every week.

36:57

There is a there's a lot to say

36:59

about that. I'm just glad I got a good night's

37:01

sleep last night. You know why I did? Thanks

37:04

to my Eight

37:06

Sleep pod cover.

37:08

Our sponsor, Eight Sleep.

37:10

Actually, I've been sleeping since before they were sponsored.

37:12

I've been sleeping on an Eight Sleep bed.

37:15

Eight Sleep brings you what

37:17

you need, which is a good

37:19

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I have the pod two pro cover.

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this. Right? Consistent good sleep

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the risk of heart disease, lower

37:35

your blood pressure. There's even some

37:37

evidence that it reduces the

37:39

risk of Alzheimer's. And yet, thirty percent of us, more

37:41

almost a third struggle with

37:44

sleep. You know what the number

37:46

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40:34

good. Wow.

40:36

What a what a melodrama?

40:40

is going on in Twitterland. I almost

40:43

I hardly don't know where to

40:45

begin. So yesterday,

40:48

news came that

40:51

Elon Musk had sent a letter to Twitter, to

40:53

the Twitter board, and they

40:55

said to the

40:58

judge saying,

41:00

okay, okay, fine. I'll

41:03

buy it. Fifty four twenty a

41:05

share, forty four billion dollars. People

41:08

seem to act like,

41:10

okay, that's it. It's a

41:11

done deal, but it it

41:14

is pending.

41:16

the ending of the court trial, which

41:18

was supposed to begin in a little

41:20

couple of weeks, October seventeenth,

41:24

The judge today

41:26

said, I haven't heard anything yet, so we're gonna

41:28

move ahead. There's some

41:30

speculation that the reason Elon

41:33

cried uncle is he's supposed he's

41:35

being deposed tomorrow. So

41:38

he would be called to testify under

41:40

oath tomorrow in a

41:42

deposition. The other possible

41:44

sword hanging over his head

41:46

is the release of additional messages

41:50

between Musk and others. There was a tranche of

41:52

messages released last week that were, I

41:54

think, not so embarrassing for Elon, but

41:56

pretty embarrassing for the soul was

41:58

friends. For the sick of fans, like Jason

41:59

Kalakadis. Jason Kalakadis. It was it

42:02

was perfect. I can't wait to get to that. It was just

42:04

performing. I I

42:06

love Jason. many poor guy. No. No. No. No. It was

42:08

the essence of Jason.

42:10

He was a little bit of a suck up. Was

42:12

this weekend, Jason? Yeah. I don't.

42:15

a little bit of a say. So first, he

42:17

volunteers. Now you remember one of the

42:19

things that, you know, after Elon made the

42:21

bid, he he scrambled to raise the money.

42:23

borrowed quite a bit against his Tesla stock, but even that even

42:26

though he's the richest man in the world was not enough to

42:28

cover the forty four billion. Larry

42:30

Ellison the richest man in the

42:32

moored world? He sure

42:34

was. Is he is he no was? Isn't the

42:35

Tata Tata guy? Oh, I think

42:37

the Tata guy might have come on. I don't know.

42:39

You know, Tesla stock is

42:41

plummeted. But time, he was the original time, he was

42:43

the original. Right. But again, but that actually

42:46

points out how little it means. It's

42:48

not like you know, Scrooge

42:50

Mcducker, he's got a swimming pool full

42:52

of dollar bills. It's

42:54

it's all tied up and tesa stock, and it's all

42:56

because of this value tesa stock. And, incidentally,

42:58

can I just say Elon did an

43:00

amazing thing? SpaceX did an amazing thing this

43:02

morning? You watch that, John?

43:04

I know I did

43:06

nine AM. The Falcon Dragon crew,

43:08

five, six, went up,

43:10

five, with four astronauts,

43:11

one from Russia,

43:12

one from Japan, two from the US,

43:16

including a petalumaan. The

43:18

commander was a native American born

43:20

here in Petaluma went to Rancho Catati

43:22

Eye down

43:24

the road, And Yeah. Go. Yeah. Is that where you is

43:26

that where your kids went? It's French accent hard. kids.

43:30

Yeah. She was

43:32

the commander. First Native American in

43:34

space. Awesome. Yeah. Really

43:36

it was a beautiful launch, flawless. The

43:40

the So Ooster landed on the on the instead.

43:42

On the drone platform?

43:44

Well, I gotta point out.

43:48

SpaceX's success is not necessarily due to Elon. It

43:50

might be despite Elon. There are a number

43:53

of SpaceX employees who say I've

43:55

said before. It's just a stretch of something

43:58

like SpaceX could be

43:59

because Elon put the

44:01

right people in place to make this stuff.

44:03

Yeah. You've been saying

44:05

that. regularly. And

44:08

Yes. In any

44:08

event, well done. So that and

44:11

I reason I mentioned is

44:13

I just don't wanna, like, say Elon is just the

44:15

most horrible person in the world. He's in the

44:17

world. I will. He's I don't think

44:19

he's horrible. I think he's like a lot of

44:21

behavior. Yes. I think you're gonna his his

44:24

Ukraine trick last week

44:26

was was horrendous. It was

44:28

horrendous. He said, oh, they should just

44:30

have a vote in Russia, you know,

44:32

should get you know, whatever it gets. And by the

44:34

way, you know, when the foreign

44:36

minister of the Ukraine

44:38

called him bad

44:40

word. Yeah. And Zelensky

44:42

tweeted back at him. I mean, this is And

44:44

by the way, today, the Russians

44:46

said, hey, good idea. Yeah. Right. That's

44:49

a great idea, Elon. And I wonder, is there

44:51

for for chance between that? And he

44:53

got kind of I'm sorry. He's not even

44:55

for reward. I'm not I'm

44:57

just asking, could you know, we know there's Saudi money in this

44:59

deal. Could there be Russian money? Actually, I think

45:01

the biggest third party in this

45:03

is the Saudi sovereign funds.

45:06

Yes. Yes. As we

45:08

know from the revealed text

45:11

messages, Larry Ellison DM sim and

45:13

says, I'm in. What do you billion two, you tell me. Though he said

45:16

a billion and Elon then

45:18

said no,

45:20

too. and and Larry went along with it. Yeah.

45:23

Jason says Jason

45:25

Callahan says, hey, I'd like to be the CEO. If

45:27

you don't mind, I have some great ideas.

45:30

and he fires off message after message about how Twitter

45:32

should be run. And at

45:34

the same time, and I got the emails,

45:36

sends out emails to people saying, hey,

45:39

I'm building AAA group of people who will help

45:41

Elon in this acquisition. We give him some

45:44

money. Would you be

45:46

interested? Elon eventually

45:48

is compelled to say, can you

45:50

knock it off? This is proving

45:53

embarrassing to me. I

45:56

didn't see anything really embarrassing from

45:58

Elon. It was mostly the sick of

45:59

fans kissing up to him. Jason

46:02

eventually

46:02

says, I'm carrying your sword,

46:04

sir. It was just it was just awful. That's awful.

46:06

Yeah. The ultimate Jason.

46:09

Yeah. You know what? Jason's

46:11

not Jason doesn't know how

46:13

to be embarrassed. No. Don't bother him.

46:15

No. I love Jason. And, you know, he's always said that he

46:18

was good friends with Elon. When I bought the

46:20

model x, he said, I'll get you at the

46:22

huddle line. he

46:24

didn't. But, you know, I I you know, he knows Elon. You

46:26

know, he had a model he had a roadster.

46:28

He is he knows Elon.

46:31

Twitter, meanwhile, has really been rocked by

46:33

this whole thing. Seven hundred employees have

46:35

left some two major

46:38

executives were fired the

46:40

border talent is left. Major talent.

46:43

The border is now

46:45

very active in pursuing Elon,

46:47

making him do it including

46:49

there's a big article about Brett Taylor, our guy

46:51

Brett. We love Brett. He's the chairman of

46:53

the board who is on the committee

46:55

that is pursuing this litigation.

46:57

The other shoe that might

47:00

drop is additional

47:02

messages messages except

47:05

it looks like Elon moved the

47:08

important ones to signal.

47:10

And but said, he wasn't using signal

47:12

for the deal, but they have one

47:14

smoking gun not plugged, showing

47:18

that he was moving the conversation to

47:20

signal. So they've got them there.

47:22

The conversation they really wanna know

47:24

about is did he confer

47:26

talk with the Twitter whistleblower

47:30

Peter Zacko? before

47:30

he whistled blue. In other words, did he

47:32

maybe encourage him to

47:35

do this?

47:37

Apparently, someone within anonymous

47:40

proton mail account, that's an

47:42

encrypted email account. On

47:44

the same on on

47:48

May sixth, Send an email. He he said I am a former

47:50

exec at Twitter leading teams

47:52

directly involving trust and

47:54

safety content

47:56

moderation In the email,

47:58

the sender, is it, Zacho,

48:00

we don't know, suggests that

48:02

Musk's team get in touch

48:04

on another platform formed through,

48:06

quote, alternate secure means

48:08

in order for this

48:10

person to provide information

48:12

about Twitter. It's not

48:14

probative, but I think it's much. It's

48:17

Peter Zachko. And that he

48:19

did in fact approach

48:21

Elon saying I got something you might

48:24

wanna know. This could also be a

48:26

reason Elon might have said, you know,

48:28

this is the the the the guess

48:30

is is are that Elon

48:32

knew he was gonna lose. I don't know if that's the

48:34

case. Can I ask a question

48:36

here? Is so

48:40

so lose would be defined as you must buy the company. Yep. Is there

48:42

also a definition of lose that says, you

48:44

were such a bad boy, Elon.

48:46

You're not only by

48:48

the company, you fork

48:50

up another five billion to injured

48:52

parties. I don't think so. Is

48:54

there a further punishment now? I don't think

48:56

loses just by it. I think loses

48:58

by it, but a

49:00

lot of damage in

49:02

discovery. And this happens again

49:04

and again, this happened in Epic versus

49:07

Apple. where the discovery of all of

49:09

this stuff pretrial is

49:12

embarrassing as hell to

49:14

these companies. Apple suffered a lot of reputational damage. They

49:16

won the case against Epic, but they

49:18

lost a lot of

49:20

reputation because of

49:22

the messages you know,

49:24

we'll be quoting those messages for years

49:26

to come. Mhmm.

49:28

It just happens again and again again

49:30

and I think already It's been somewhat of an

49:32

embarrassment, but if if messages between

49:35

Zacateco and Musk before

49:38

the whistleblowerowing, showed

49:40

up. That'd be

49:42

bad bad.

49:45

Anyway, for

49:48

whatever reason, And

49:50

and it's, you know, it's all twelve g

49:52

chess. Maybe. Could be

49:54

checkers. But for

49:56

whatever reason, Elan said,

49:58

no, let's buy it. Now they these lawyers

50:00

have still not apparently told the judge, at least

50:02

the judge hadn't received that information. So

50:04

she said we're gonna act as if we

50:06

The trial's still on for the seventeenth, so I'm not sure going on.

50:09

The judge, right before the

50:11

Musk letter, did say Twitter could hunt

50:13

for secret chats with Zako.

50:16

Do you think there

50:18

are any c

50:20

Go ahead. The the regulators come

50:22

in. What is it? The the

50:26

SEC. SEC? Yeah. Do you think we'll ever see

50:28

any of them come in and say, look here, dude, you

50:30

you you need to pay for these

50:32

problems that you've created? Musk,

50:35

I think, is trying to I did he not

50:37

go to appeal to the

50:40

Supreme Court? I

50:42

think he'd I feel like he did

50:44

over this issue of whether the SEC

50:47

should be allowed

50:50

to muzzle him.

50:52

I think the Supreme Court rejected that,

50:55

by the way. the

50:58

he

50:58

the SEC is, you know,

51:01

I think really

51:02

should definitely get involved.

51:03

I don't know what

51:06

the current status of their investigations are.

51:08

You see any

51:10

Saturday sent

51:11

to me with

51:13

him? Sorry, she doesn't is there any

51:15

scenario when she doesn't at the company? Oh,

51:18

absolutely. I mean, who the

51:20

hell knows? Who the what

51:22

yeah. Well, for one thing, one of

51:24

the conditions of this letter was

51:26

that the case be dropped.

51:29

But why would you drop

51:31

it until such time as you Well, it's

51:34

Well, Twitter sure I I don't know who has

51:36

I guess Twitter has to

51:40

contact the judge. The judge does not even earn

51:42

anything. Well, Twitter's statement

51:44

was as as Mike Masdick said, who I was

51:46

with yesterday, but all this happened. This

51:49

was probably the most

51:52

loyered message

51:53

in a year.

51:55

in which Twitter just said,

51:57

we intend to close.

52:00

Yeah. Period. Yeah.

52:02

Period. Period. Love it.

52:04

So the judge needs to get

52:06

word that Twitter's dropping its lawsuit,

52:08

but he's an Elon also suing

52:11

So both that's right. There's a counterparty.

52:13

Both parties have to tell the

52:16

judge

52:18

that they're gonna

52:20

drop the case. Apparently, that has not

52:22

happened. Twitter would be a fool to do

52:24

that until they know that

52:26

the financings But that's

52:28

the condition. Yeah.

52:28

Yeah. Well, that's that that

52:29

is it's it's a bit of chicken nagging.

52:31

Ain't it? Because I'm not gonna

52:34

Oh, you first? No.

52:36

You first. You you

52:38

dropped the suit. No. You closed

52:40

the deal. Well, no. I'm not closing the deal. You dropped the

52:42

suit. No. You dropped the suit. I mean, that's is

52:45

that where you are? It's a simple niena

52:47

niena game? Masnique says he thinks Elon

52:49

will own Twitter. Let's

52:51

go forward assuming he will. And then it'll happen -- Yeah.

52:53

-- quick. No.

52:56

Okay. Now I know what

52:58

you're saying. that question. It's I was gonna

53:01

say, what do you think? though

53:06

So I like mister Elgin's commentary. Yeah. Let's

53:08

let's go to that because that was a great piece.

53:10

So it won't happen

53:12

overnight. It'll take a month

53:14

or two to

53:16

close. It's kind of unknown whether

53:18

there might be regulatory approval

53:20

and so forth. I I don't know.

53:22

It's just a purchase of a company.

53:25

Elan's not in the social network

53:27

business. So I

53:32

guess, there probably wouldn't be

53:34

regulatory hold ups. Right?

53:36

Anyway, it's a it's a kind

53:38

of a rocketship. It'd be a kite it'd

53:41

be soon. a month or two. So what

53:43

happens? Yeah. You are

53:46

someone right now.

53:46

Oh, go on. No. No.

53:48

No. No. I wanna hear from you.

53:51

Well, no.

53:51

I was just gonna say I'm sure someone right now is

53:53

trying to build something that could

53:55

take a mass exodus from Twitter. Yes.

53:57

I mean, I we're gonna show that in

53:59

a

53:59

minute. I was part of

54:02

that conversation just yesterday. I think

54:04

that's not the only one, but you're right. I'm sure

54:06

that's that's

54:08

one. Yes. thing is I mean, of course, a minute

54:10

Elon closes on Twitter.

54:12

I would I'm not gonna leave Twitter. Are you gonna

54:14

would you leave Twitter and Stacey if just

54:18

because Elon closed on it? Not right away,

54:19

but I mean, I imagine

54:22

I think the way Elon ends

54:24

up managing Twitter might make it

54:27

a less hospitable place for someone

54:28

like myself. Yes. My but

54:31

my not. It's a nice thing. And it and

54:33

so I'm like,

54:34

yeah. When that happens, I will

54:36

Exactly. That's my attitude. I'm

54:38

gonna have to find out. See what happens. Your

54:40

state would have to give me Andre Brock

54:42

junior. Sorry,

54:43

hat. Go ahead. You know,

54:44

I was saying he would have to give me a reason to leave. I know lot of folks

54:47

on Twitter right now are just throwing their

54:49

heads up. It's like, oh, this we

54:52

can't let this happen blah blah blah blah. But what if he actually

54:54

comes in and does a a decent

54:56

job of putting people in place

54:58

and helping to

55:00

curtail the

55:02

crap fest that's happening inside of Twitter for Elon

55:06

has a lot of ideas. He hasn't demonstrated

55:08

much command of those space,

55:11

you know, like he really understood. The

55:13

best case the best case is that it's no

55:15

worse than it is today. That is

55:18

by far the best case. Well, Chris Anne, everything else is done.

55:20

Oh, the guy Do it

55:22

do it do it in a Stready accent wave.

55:24

The guy who founded

55:26

Ted Talks. Chris No. He did

55:28

found them. He did not found them. He did not find them.

55:30

because I don't know who founded it.

55:32

Yes. Saw saw Worman.

55:34

Right? Worman. Yep. Way back

55:36

when technology entertainment design.

55:38

But he currently runs Ted. Right?

55:40

Yeah. So he yeah. Oh,

55:43

yeah. So he tweeted, admits to

55:45

all the sneering. How does

55:47

he talk? Very, very

55:50

I'd like to offer prediction for him.

55:52

the Elon Musk acquisition of Twitter will play out.

55:55

First of all, I'm sorry. I think

55:57

the deal will indeed go through

55:59

now. I regret it. backed

56:02

by an impressive roster of co investors. Next,

56:06

the company will undoubtedly Like I like,

56:09

by the way, Saudi Arabia, but keep going. Well, but, you

56:11

know, if you're gonna paint with that

56:14

brush, a lot of Silicon Valley's Older

56:16

newspapers with Saudi money.

56:18

I mean, I know.

56:20

I know. Sovereign's fund is

56:22

very powerful in Silicon

56:24

Valley, which we should probably at some point

56:26

talk about. So whatever.

56:30

Impressive roster of co investors is

56:32

unnecessarily asking you, but okay,

56:34

we'll say it. But that's kinda the

56:36

whole point of this piece, I think. The

56:38

company will undoubtedly experience a period of

56:40

significant turmoil.

56:42

The because

56:44

like everybody's gonna quit, there's a lot of change ahead, many

56:46

won't like it. But here's the

56:48

but you're looking for, Stacey. It will gradually

56:52

become clear that a lot of

56:54

the changes are actually quite exciting. First of all, fears

56:56

of all the content moderation being

56:58

abandoned will prove unfounded. Instead,

57:01

the algorithm will be adjusted to avoid giving so

57:04

much amplification to political

57:06

divisiveness. Actually, that sounds good

57:08

to me. Yeah. And he can't get rid

57:11

of content moderation, whatever he says, because that

57:13

would turn the place into

57:16

a

57:16

cesspool. But,

57:17

you know, he he said he'd invite Donald Trump

57:19

back. That's well, right there, whether

57:21

the Donald will go back,

57:23

I don't know, but you

57:25

know, if you're gonna downplay political divisiveness

57:27

and fighting, the head of the

57:29

political divisive party is not the best

57:31

way to do it. The debate that matters is

57:33

not about who is on or off the platform,

57:36

Anderson says, but what type of tweets get

57:38

amplified?

57:40

You know, Some of that's in Twitter's control, but some of it's not. It's

57:42

retweeting. It's not. It's press coverage. other

57:44

stuff. Yeah. Yeah. If that can change,

57:47

everything changes next. steps will be

57:49

put in a place to verify all human Twitter

57:52

accounts. Blue checks for all.

57:54

That process will lay the basis for those

57:55

accounts to be

57:58

used for Oh, get ready

57:59

for this. Transactions. I'll now WeChat

58:02

using a

58:02

There we go. Twitter -- This is

58:04

so cool. -- x. This

58:07

is their this is his dream that he's gonna be WeChat

58:09

and he's gonna do what China does

58:12

from the base of Twitter. And how much do

58:14

you have to invest to do that.

58:16

Twitter says Elon says he's gonna use

58:18

Twitter to build an everything

58:20

app called X. Buying Twitter is

58:22

an accelerant using that

58:24

space language to creating

58:26

x the everything app. Mike we'll talk

58:28

about Mike Elgin's explanation

58:30

of what that

58:31

x is in just a second, but let's finish

58:33

Chris Anderson's lengthy tweets.

58:34

For example,

58:36

people might by

58:39

the way, it could be a Twitter, Cryptocoin, or

58:41

US dollars. For example, people

58:43

-- Hey. -- how old fashioned? Yeah.

58:45

How old fashioned? Oh my god. Well, actually,

58:47

this makes more sense this next paragraph,

58:50

people may be offered paid

58:52

subscriptions and receive usable

58:54

tokens. So you pay them five bucks and they

58:56

give you five hundred tw hundred dollars. This

58:58

could be the B. S. land. This could bring

59:00

the company to significant risk. second

59:02

that size, Stacey. Plus I

59:04

don't need monopoly money on my social network.

59:07

Yeah. So But it is all the

59:09

rage, isn't it? It's a such Although

59:12

NFT sales have plummeted

59:14

since the beginning of the year. They've just paid fallen

59:16

off the map. which is tough for people who

59:18

are holding those valuable moon

59:22

birds -- -- monkeys. -- monkeys.

59:24

Monkeys. Born apes.

59:26

Born apes. board h, that's what it is. paid

59:28

subscriptions for usable tokens could bring

59:30

the company significant revenue plus

59:34

get this, create its own

59:36

economy on which goods and

59:38

services could be transacted.

59:40

The sheer scale of Twitter

59:42

can rapidly bring this to critical

59:44

mass. But if you're

59:46

ready, we have facial

59:48

expressions, Stacy. We're not done.

59:50

There's more for me. But but

59:52

then wait.

59:55

September twenty twenty

59:58

three. growing numbers of people will be attracted to Twitter

59:59

X. It will be far

1:00:02

less prone

1:00:02

to robospam and algorithm fueled

1:00:06

outrage. magic. Well, how you'll be on magic? Exactly.

1:00:08

It's gonna be no more because

1:00:11

web three, because magic because

1:00:14

the chain, instead, it will offer a lot of new functionality. That could be

1:00:16

that could be true. Elon could do

1:00:20

that. This

1:00:20

is so We Hold

1:00:23

on. Do you know how long This is the

1:00:24

pain, the final bit, the how do you pronounce that

1:00:27

pay pain, pin, to

1:00:30

Elon. Elon. Elon. Elon. Elon. There is

1:00:32

plenty Elon Musk can be legitimately

1:00:36

criticized for. His own use of

1:00:38

Twitter can scheme ill

1:00:40

advised. He can give the impression

1:00:42

of being more politically than political

1:00:44

than he is. And there's no question I

1:00:47

mean, apparently, he's not political. We didn't

1:00:49

know. And there's no question. He's just a

1:00:51

jerk and gets upset when people

1:00:53

call him political. Yeah. I mean, that's it's people who are,

1:00:55

like, I'm not political. They just They're all

1:00:58

organized. Right?

1:01:00

Right. Yes. I'm not

1:01:02

political. I'm just right. And there's no

1:01:04

question there will be many bumps along the way,

1:01:06

says Anderson. But this is the

1:01:08

key point. As a tech entrepreneur,

1:01:10

he is without peer. In twenty thirteen,

1:01:14

I predict he would

1:01:16

become the world's richest man within a

1:01:18

decade.

1:01:19

Check

1:01:22

The next day that's his check,

1:01:24

not mine. The next decade will be even more spectacular. Fixing

1:01:28

Twitter may be as hard

1:01:30

a job. as converting

1:01:32

Teslas into robotics

1:01:34

still hasn't happened. And proving the

1:01:36

viability of a monster rocket capable of

1:01:38

taking humanity to the Mars still hasn't

1:01:41

happened. But within three days three years

1:01:43

from today, I predict he will

1:01:45

have accomplished all three Hey,

1:01:47

there you go. Put that down. Would you put that in the book there,

1:01:49

Ann? Oh, got it. Tesla, robo

1:01:52

taxis, rockets to Mars,

1:01:54

and he fixed Twitter. And

1:01:57

let's not forget -- Three years. -- tubes

1:01:59

under America.

1:01:59

Yeah. Not not investment advice.

1:02:02

Just

1:02:02

one person's opinion now passed me the

1:02:04

popcorn. your

1:02:07

thoughts, miss Greg and Buffet. The

1:02:08

the muffin

1:02:09

ah turning

1:02:13

Twitter into an everything up. I think that's

1:02:15

a really great idea. The

1:02:18

challenge is

1:02:20

it is difficult in a way that Elon

1:02:22

can't engineer around it. And, you

1:02:24

know, I don't know if Elon's coming up with these

1:02:26

ideas or

1:02:28

his he's inspiring his engineering staff to really work hard

1:02:30

at some things. There's some really cool

1:02:32

things that I will give Elon

1:02:34

or the companies that Elon is heading.

1:02:37

a lot of credit for. I mean, yes, we can mock the lack

1:02:39

of robo taxis. But, you know, when

1:02:42

you sat up for his

1:02:43

engineering thing

1:02:46

for the the optimist robot in the way he's

1:02:48

approaching AI training. That

1:02:50

actually there's some

1:02:50

really interesting science and some really big bets

1:02:53

on their computing platform that I'm

1:02:56

like, actually legit

1:02:56

and pretty cool. But the robot was being a little bit

1:03:00

noisy?

1:03:01

The robot itself I

1:03:03

I don't think there'll be a full functioning

1:03:06

robot like he anticipates in, like, what, six

1:03:08

months or nine months? I can't

1:03:10

remember. It was very late. I was on

1:03:12

a plane. But back to x in this concept of Twitter is

1:03:14

everything up. The problem

1:03:16

is payments

1:03:18

and Apple

1:03:19

apple spent,

1:03:20

like, almost eight years

1:03:22

working on getting payments, and they're

1:03:24

just now hitting their stride with, like, Apple

1:03:26

Pay and that sort of thing. And I

1:03:30

think

1:03:30

and and Elon knows this.

1:03:32

He was at PayPal.

1:03:35

I think getting

1:03:36

at everything app and

1:03:38

having the payments is part of the app because you

1:03:40

would have to have some

1:03:41

sort of agreement with credit card companies.

1:03:43

I don't think anyone

1:03:45

can reinvent that space. We've seen so many

1:03:48

people try

1:03:48

and Or miss That's that's

1:03:50

where I have in history at PayPal. Do

1:03:52

you not think he has a bit of a

1:03:55

head start and being able to see

1:03:57

what Apple went through? Do you not

1:03:59

think that's some head start to touch in

1:04:01

to try to put stuff in place?

1:04:03

I feel like he

1:04:04

knows how hard it is. I also

1:04:06

feel like Apple went about it from

1:04:08

a different angle than PayPal folks did.

1:04:10

Right? So I feel like

1:04:13

if even if he's able to do

1:04:15

that, he's not going to be able

1:04:17

to do that for years. And

1:04:20

there's

1:04:20

not really a

1:04:22

good way to do

1:04:22

it quickly. And it's not an

1:04:25

engineering

1:04:25

issue. It is a business issue. And

1:04:27

Yeah. You can press

1:04:28

the last letter. credit card infrastructure.

1:04:32

of the country. You've got to convince every merchant to

1:04:34

come on and and accept payment

1:04:37

this way. You've got

1:04:39

to add all kinds of functionality and change consumer habits about

1:04:41

how they do everything. China can do it

1:04:44

because they have a monopoly government

1:04:46

over monopoly businesses. That ain't

1:04:48

the case

1:04:50

here. did not happen. Yeah.

1:04:53

And China also didn't

1:04:54

have the credit card infrastructure,

1:04:56

the payment

1:04:58

infrastructure. going into it.

1:05:00

So so when I

1:05:01

when I think about things like that, I'm

1:05:04

like, I

1:05:06

think Elon probably is good at

1:05:07

recognizing his ten x way

1:05:10

to solve a problem and

1:05:12

galvanizing engineers to solve that

1:05:13

problem even

1:05:16

if you know, but I don't think payments in creating the everything

1:05:18

app is probably the way to that

1:05:20

that's not that type of problem. So

1:05:24

that's that's my my take there. And I

1:05:26

mean, I don't know. I

1:05:28

mean, he doesn't want

1:05:30

this. I

1:05:32

feel like I think he yeah. I

1:05:34

really don't under I mean I think

1:05:36

he does Maybe the best case he does now.

1:05:38

I think he's once again, he's

1:05:41

He's completely flip flopped on this. He

1:05:43

seems to have really got nothing. He really

1:05:45

wants it. As long as he goes to it. Our

1:05:47

best case is he provides

1:05:50

someone who does

1:05:50

want this. If you find someone who's willing

1:05:52

to do it and does wanna dig into

1:05:54

this, I think it could be fine.

1:05:58

because it's not like the Twitter folks

1:06:00

were really doing a bang up job. Right?

1:06:02

You know, they were just kind of mucking

1:06:04

along trying some stuff, but

1:06:06

it was So there's actually

1:06:08

the potential

1:06:10

for someone to be appointed to do something

1:06:12

really great with it. Yeah.

1:06:14

But I

1:06:15

would prefer Yeah.

1:06:18

I would say that this motivates

1:06:20

people. I I wanna see

1:06:22

this turbo charge blue sky and

1:06:24

other alternatives. I

1:06:26

wanna see this put up a bad signal to scare people

1:06:28

that as Jack has said, Twitter shouldn't

1:06:30

be a company. It should be a protocol.

1:06:32

And what

1:06:34

does speech as protocol look like with value

1:06:36

added layers atop this. I think that's a

1:06:38

nice starter. I think that's even harder to

1:06:40

do than a than a siloed

1:06:44

mean, I hate to say it. I first Discord starts down that path.

1:06:46

Well, yeah, but Discord is not taken over

1:06:48

the world. I think it's a protocol.

1:06:51

I think that I agree with you, Jeff. I

1:06:53

prefer to see it that But honestly, the way to financial

1:06:56

riches look, he's gotta he's gotta

1:06:58

get make forty four billion

1:07:00

dollars. Oh, I'm not saying Elon does this. I'm

1:07:02

saying that this scares everybody else to

1:07:04

get their acts together, to do

1:07:06

so. Well, that's that's the conversation. So yesterday yesterday when this came weren't

1:07:08

scared by Facebook. I mean, honestly,

1:07:10

this is a lot. This has

1:07:12

been waiting for somebody to do and

1:07:16

lots of ride for a decade. And nobody

1:07:18

nobody has. And I think there's

1:07:20

the network effect. There's a lot of strong

1:07:22

reasons why it's almost impossible at

1:07:24

this point. to

1:07:26

build a com competitor. I think Elon has absolutely the

1:07:28

InsightTrack to create an everything app.

1:07:30

I mean, if he acquired Twitter,

1:07:33

he's got the InsightTrack. It's

1:07:35

not gonna be an open standard. It's gonna

1:07:37

be a siloed. You know, you have

1:07:39

to buy into it. He's gonna have

1:07:41

to somehow get people to go for it. I don't

1:07:43

think it's gonna be thing to do. He's gonna

1:07:45

have to invest three times what it cost to buy twenty.

1:07:48

Baby. But, you know, if if honestly,

1:07:50

if the financial markets thought that he

1:07:53

had a shot at it. Look how much money they

1:07:55

poured into Uber and we work.

1:07:57

I mean, if they thought he had a

1:07:59

shot

1:07:59

at it, He would

1:08:01

have no trouble raising the money. In fact, I think he has had no trouble

1:08:03

so far. He's probably pitching this idea

1:08:05

and has been for

1:08:08

some time. there I mean, it's

1:08:10

clear to see what the upside would be of such

1:08:12

a thing if you could do it. The fact

1:08:14

that Facebook hasn't done it, I mean,

1:08:16

Facebook's tried. that Apple has I

1:08:18

don't think Apple's really tried, but I think Apple's sensibly just, you know, stood and looked over precipice

1:08:20

instead step back

1:08:23

a little bit. Facebook's tried, though,

1:08:25

they wanted to turn messenger into the issue, which says everything about how difficult it is. I don't

1:08:27

think it's easy. Yeah.

1:08:31

No. No role. And and and,

1:08:33

you know, I wouldn't be so I think there's another scenario here because Jack has

1:08:36

been, to

1:08:40

my surprise, seemingly an Elon ally on

1:08:42

this, which says a lot about his relationship

1:08:44

with the company. I'm sure that's part

1:08:46

of it, but it's also about Blue Sky.

1:08:50

And and Elon has saluted that flag a bit.

1:08:53

And Blue Sky is is five million dollars funny. It's

1:08:55

all they have right now in four

1:08:57

people, but Jay Gravers really smart. there's there's

1:09:00

something there where if if

1:09:02

if if Jack could convince

1:09:05

Elon that the

1:09:07

future was as a protocol like

1:09:10

a WordPress open source

1:09:12

base upon which you can

1:09:14

build great value and build it

1:09:16

faster as a result.

1:09:18

Then interesting things could happen. Jack could be a key to this to pushing Elon in the right direction.

1:09:20

Everybody knows that's not

1:09:23

where the money is. The

1:09:26

money is where Corey Doctor Ro and Rebekah The money ate in Twitter. No. The money ate there.

1:09:31

Showpoint socialism. You your

1:09:34

the money is in controlling. The is siloed. It's not open anything.

1:09:36

Open is the antithesis.

1:09:38

It's why we love open.

1:09:42

BUT OPEN IS NOT THE WAY TO MAKE BILLIONERS. THAT'S

1:09:44

NOT TRUE. THE

1:09:45

SPIN CAN BE USED

1:09:48

TO MAKE BILLIONERS. IT

1:09:50

JUST NEEDS TO BE OPEN.

1:09:52

the lower Like

1:09:54

Android. Android. Android is not open. Are you kidding? you

1:10:00

kidding me? Like, look at the Intel

1:10:03

architecture.

1:10:03

That isn't open, but it's

1:10:05

at a low enough level

1:10:07

and then Intel spend a lot

1:10:09

of money. And I think it's also important they recognize that it was a platform and designed

1:10:11

it as such. So you can

1:10:14

design yourself to be

1:10:16

like a walled garden or

1:10:18

you can be a platform. And I think that's and and I say Intel because, like, look

1:10:20

at what Intel

1:10:23

did. They were, like, crap.

1:10:25

We've got a computing platform. We need more people to

1:10:27

use it. So they funded, you know, EA, they funded all these companies who are

1:10:29

like, heck yeah, use

1:10:31

our computing platform. contrast

1:10:36

that with something like

1:10:38

the carriers who are

1:10:40

like, oh, man,

1:10:40

broadband's amazing. They're gonna build

1:10:43

a whole economy on Let's

1:10:44

charge them for every freaking penny

1:10:46

and then let's charge them for more. And that, like, that's stymied the ecosystem

1:10:48

till

1:10:48

we found ways around it.

1:10:51

So I think there's There's

1:10:53

a difference. I and I appreciate

1:10:54

what Corey is saying with chokepoint capitals, and I think most companies try

1:10:56

to veer towards the the carrier

1:10:58

kind of model. But I think

1:11:02

There's a lot of value in

1:11:05

recognizing and creating a

1:11:07

platform that allows enough people

1:11:09

to make enough money off

1:11:11

of it. Mhmm. this that allows you to

1:11:13

build out something that's really cool and literally does, I

1:11:16

guess, lift all boats

1:11:18

or whatever that phrase is.

1:11:21

That makes sense.

1:11:22

Of course. I'm all for it, but that's not what concentrates a billion dollars in the hands of one

1:11:24

person. And that's what

1:11:26

Elon wants to do. So

1:11:31

The I'm clear. I am all about open. That's fantastic.

1:11:33

Intel made a butt ton

1:11:34

of money during their heyday.

1:11:38

Yep. Because they had

1:11:39

I mean, because they had an open architecture. They didn't have

1:11:41

an open architecture. They made -- They made -- They made

1:11:43

-- -- they made their own --

1:11:45

-- platform. -- open or -- they It was

1:11:47

a platform as opposed to

1:11:48

A platform is not open. That's not open platform.

1:11:51

I know. I'm not saying

1:11:52

you need to be in. You

1:11:54

need to have a mindset -- He

1:11:55

needs to make a platform. -- build on top

1:11:57

of your He wants to build on top.

1:12:00

But he wants to create

1:12:02

a platform. Absolutely. But that's not

1:12:04

federated green open. No. But there are there are middle

1:12:06

grounds. There are middle grounds. And Blue Sky could be a means of

1:12:08

of that where where you you

1:12:10

tie in others. There's another scenario here.

1:12:13

which is that he buys it. Anybody with any talent leaves. He

1:12:15

doesn't know what the hell he's doing. He turns

1:12:18

it into the true

1:12:20

sense pools, people

1:12:22

call it down when it isn't. And the value goes down and down and down get called

1:12:24

and other problems can haul it. This

1:12:26

could be the ruin of Elon Musk.

1:12:31

another scenario. I think that's probably more likely,

1:12:33

but I'm I'm rooting for him. Look, if

1:12:35

he's gonna take Twitter

1:12:38

over, I want him to succeed, I don't Twitter to That's

1:12:40

like saying we still salute Donald Trump

1:12:42

because he's president. At some point,

1:12:44

believe who people are. People

1:12:46

are when they tell you.

1:12:49

Both. He showed us You don't talk about

1:12:51

you. And and again, I think we

1:12:53

are. Let me see. Is

1:12:55

there anything else that

1:12:59

will be in that run down that we can I'd be

1:13:01

curious if your audience maybe your audience

1:13:03

has used planetary, which

1:13:05

is something

1:13:08

new and Look, I was with I was with

1:13:10

I was with Mike Massey yesterday. I'm a fan boy. Mike, I finally got to meet Mike in person. And

1:13:12

with Daphne Keller,

1:13:15

who's a brilliant legal

1:13:16

scholar at Stanford on Internet stuff, and

1:13:18

somebody named Goldovelles who was there. And we've

1:13:21

this news happened when we were talking together

1:13:23

at lunch at this conference. And

1:13:26

so Mike brought up planetary and said,

1:13:28

you know, he showed up to me. He said,

1:13:30

look, it looks exactly like Twitter. It's got

1:13:32

a head start. and and and golda

1:13:35

was saying that the key is being able to export graph the

1:13:39

from the likes of Twitter.

1:13:41

Apparently, you can do that. No. You can export it to other

1:13:43

people using that planetary. Well, but

1:13:46

that's the question. That's the

1:13:48

question. is

1:13:50

where does that? Well, because, you know, is there any exit

1:13:52

strategy that works on Why do

1:13:54

they keep reinventing this? I mean,

1:13:56

look, we had new social.

1:13:58

Because we've had No. No. But we

1:14:01

but we we've had Oh, I

1:14:03

see. The the the the the We have open an open standard

1:14:05

for this. There's no reason and

1:14:07

reason for the pandemic. Well,

1:14:09

Mastodon is one instance. It's a use But

1:14:12

there's more than in fact, I don't know if you know about Pixel

1:14:14

Fed. Do you know Pixel Fed? Which is a Mastodon Instagram. Photo sharing

1:14:16

clone. photo

1:14:18

sharing club It's based on Mastodon. It's open. There

1:14:20

are a lot of there's, you

1:14:22

know, it started way back when

1:14:26

with

1:14:28

Well,

1:14:28

the canoe social and before canoe

1:14:31

social was identical. I don't know if you remember that. But this is a well known,

1:14:34

well supported, strong open

1:14:37

standard. Mastodon has just one instance of it. But and I

1:14:39

love Mastodon. We've been running on a Mastodon instance

1:14:42

for years. It's not

1:14:45

the next it's not taken over. It's not it's not it's not,

1:14:47

you know I mean, I don't I don't understand why

1:14:50

you think let's create another

1:14:52

one. is

1:14:55

gonna solve that. I'm just saying

1:14:57

the time just has to

1:14:59

be right. Exactly.

1:15:01

There's a crisis now. And none of

1:15:03

these companies is forever. Right? Friend feed did not take

1:15:05

over the world. My MySpace did not take over

1:15:07

the world. Twitter, Facebook,

1:15:09

and even Google are not forever companies. And there's nothing

1:15:11

to say that something could come along. The problem is they can't just replicate

1:15:14

what was. They've got to improve upon it.

1:15:16

And, you know,

1:15:18

we heard Matt Mullenweg's strategy

1:15:21

a few weeks ago, and he's now serving forty percent of the

1:15:23

web very quietly by doing the

1:15:26

open structure, by building a true

1:15:28

platform. there

1:15:31

are examples of succeeding that way. And that's plenty

1:15:33

of successful. Not as rich as Elon? No.

1:15:35

But he's doing very well. I would submit

1:15:37

that's not the kind of success Elon's gone

1:15:39

for. I don't care what Elon

1:15:42

wants. I don't give a damn damn what Elon wants. Well, I I just point out that

1:15:44

Elon's not gonna do

1:15:47

anything Elon doesn't want. Right.

1:15:50

And so That's why I do think we've gotta start looking for alternatives. Okay. Yeah. That's what I'm saying. It's

1:15:52

he's gonna he's he's an idiot. You're saying that

1:15:54

Twitter is really you're saying Twitter is

1:15:59

over the minute he takes

1:15:59

over. I fear that. I'm I'm not

1:16:01

gonna leave. I was trying to say before,

1:16:03

I greatly admire

1:16:05

and I mentioned about this the show

1:16:07

off and Andre Brock junior who wrote Distributed Blackness. And and

1:16:09

I don't know I

1:16:10

I just looked at his feet and

1:16:12

I haven't seen any late any comments lately. But

1:16:14

after the holy lot of things started, he said, basically, you're gonna get us out of here with dynamite because

1:16:16

we we have something that

1:16:19

we build it now. and

1:16:22

it's not public for the world to see.

1:16:24

Right? It's it's it's the Twitter

1:16:26

that he talks about exists in

1:16:29

in its own world as long as it

1:16:31

can it can survive there, like leave

1:16:33

in the Ukraine war,

1:16:36

then fine, keep going.

1:16:38

And and that's the way I look at Twitter now. I think it's what

1:16:40

we've all just said. As long as it doesn't get too

1:16:42

awful, we've got a lot of invested in there. We're gonna

1:16:45

stick for now. But I'm afraid that it could get really

1:16:47

awful. just struck that when you got with them yesterday, and

1:16:50

the person who did you say showed

1:16:52

you just planetarium

1:16:54

dot social. like Masdic.

1:16:56

like magic trick. Okay. So so when mister

1:16:58

Masnick showed it to you, were the words out of his mouth say is just like

1:17:01

Twitter? No. No.

1:17:03

No. No. No. he was he was

1:17:05

saying that that there's that rattle the guy who started planetary has

1:17:07

a more more open on

1:17:11

the algorithmic view of

1:17:13

social. And Mike just said, by the way, it kinda looks like Twitter. That was all.

1:17:15

Oh, okay. But as as far as alternatives,

1:17:17

and and where are if we

1:17:20

were to support

1:17:23

our graphs somewhere. Where might there

1:17:25

be open homes for them? I don't

1:17:27

know. Can discord take that and

1:17:29

take all my friends can can

1:17:32

planetary? Is there a is there a friendly

1:17:34

repository where I where we can start

1:17:36

to rebuild after the nuclear

1:17:38

bomb that Elon drops on your

1:17:40

social? You can't do

1:17:41

that if you think of your social web like a community, and if

1:17:43

you view this as being a bomb victim, you can't bring

1:17:45

your entire community with you

1:17:47

when you go.

1:17:50

No. I mean, I think you just have to accept, like

1:17:52

See, what kind of head start do you

1:17:54

have? Oh, no. You could just like, I'm gonna

1:17:56

build a new community here, and I think that

1:17:58

kind of idea of if you

1:18:01

view, like, your virtual life

1:18:03

and your virtual relationships

1:18:05

in parallel to your, like, real real world ones, you know,

1:18:07

if you move away or your

1:18:09

friends move away or

1:18:12

you leave college,

1:18:14

for example. This might be like leaving college. Everybody

1:18:16

goes to their own platforms, and that was nice, and

1:18:17

you'll make new friends. Yeah. I mean, it happened with my space. It's

1:18:20

happened before. I

1:18:23

just don't like the idea of someone proposing a new

1:18:25

app or service or whatever, and

1:18:27

the first things out of

1:18:29

their mouth is It's just like Twitter.

1:18:32

Well, then No. No. I

1:18:34

don't want his planetary

1:18:35

didn't say that. Mike didn't

1:18:37

say that. Although

1:18:37

it's just like twelve, what I'm saying,

1:18:39

but I mean, it's not exactly iterating nowadays. Yeah. There's a lot

1:18:41

of competitors are are using that type of verbiage, whether it be a

1:18:44

a Twitter lookalike

1:18:47

or whatever on Instagram lookalike or, you know,

1:18:49

everybody's sort of saying, hey, this

1:18:52

is our version of

1:18:54

Twitter. Well, if it's Twitter,

1:18:56

then just stayed there.

1:18:58

You know? Yeah. It's it's an ancillary to

1:19:01

the discussion about why

1:19:03

does everybody start TikTok when

1:19:07

there's TikTok. Yeah. The the the competitive

1:19:09

response is that everybody copies everybody

1:19:11

rather than everybody out innovates

1:19:13

everybody. That's where we are right

1:19:15

now. You know, I think it's the same thing, Ant, where, you know, there's

1:19:17

a whole list of things are

1:19:19

getting killed every week. Google's

1:19:21

killing them and others are

1:19:24

killing them. And I think we're seeing, you know,

1:19:26

Facebook is a sad retrenchment right now. Twitter, God knows what its fate is in the next

1:19:28

month. Google is killing

1:19:31

stuff and is not and

1:19:33

Leo has been saying this for a long time, but now

1:19:35

I'll agree with him that it's not showing itself to be wildly innovative. The now

1:19:38

legacy companies of the

1:19:40

Internet are

1:19:42

getting to be kind of sad. And

1:19:44

I don't think that the future is

1:19:46

necessarily new big companies. Well, but that

1:19:48

that that sense point well taken, which

1:19:50

is the certainly not gonna innovate by copying what exists. I agree. That's what

1:19:52

I'm saying. And I think that's where we are now. I

1:19:54

think we're in a we're in a it's

1:19:58

like the phones. there's not really any innovation going on with the

1:19:59

phones right now. They're they're incremental

1:20:02

improvements. And I think the Internet

1:20:05

and how it works is incremental improvements. But

1:20:07

I think a moment folks, a book coming

1:20:09

up next June. It was a hundred

1:20:11

fifty years

1:20:12

after movable type before

1:20:14

you got the essay, the novel.

1:20:17

and the newspaper. And and I think that we're in a stagnant time of

1:20:19

not understanding what

1:20:23

we can be And there's

1:20:25

gonna be my students maybe will be the ones who surprise us and I'll be long gone.

1:20:27

I want you to read Corey's book. You gotta read Chuck

1:20:30

Point capitalism. I'd love to get

1:20:32

your opinion

1:20:35

on it

1:20:35

because I think Cory and his co

1:20:38

author Rebecca

1:20:38

Gilbert have set out a very

1:20:42

good description of why we are at this stage. What?

1:20:44

We're at a stage. Yeah. But but but

1:20:46

I don't think they're quite a sanguine

1:20:50

about breakable. The you know, end

1:20:52

results as you are. I it's

1:20:54

a really good book and a a

1:20:56

chokepoint capitalism highly recommended. I also wanna

1:20:58

give credit to Kathleen Saint j McCormick.

1:21:01

I don't know what the Saint j stands for. Who is

1:21:03

the judge at the Delaware Chancery

1:21:06

Court because I think she's

1:21:08

actually been kinda savvy. It

1:21:11

was her decision to release all

1:21:15

those messages. Yeah. And

1:21:19

I think that was a

1:21:21

kind of a savvy move to kick

1:21:23

Elon in the butt

1:21:24

that worked. that

1:21:26

was a little a little a little a. You know, we got more messages we could release Elon because, of course, it's in her interest

1:21:28

as as it would be

1:21:30

for any court to get these

1:21:34

parties to settle before they go to court. And

1:21:36

what better way to get

1:21:38

Elon off as stuff than say,

1:21:41

you know, we got these messages

1:21:43

and we're gonna have more. He she

1:21:45

published a great piece in Bloomberg, by the way,

1:21:47

on the one person who did

1:21:49

not embarrass himself

1:21:51

in the texts And

1:21:53

that's Parag Parag, Parag, Agro. Who's the victim in all of all? Well, victim who's

1:21:55

gonna get forty million

1:21:58

dollars plus as is. as

1:22:02

his golden handcuffs. But he stayed out of it. He he you know, even Jack

1:22:04

Dorsey got

1:22:07

in the middle, Agro

1:22:10

wall just, you know, sat quiet. He said, I'm

1:22:12

super excited about the opportunity looking forward

1:22:14

to working closely and finding ways to

1:22:19

use your time effectively as possible to prove Twitter

1:22:22

in the public conversation. Great

1:22:24

message to Elon. That's you know,

1:22:26

they had a couple of back and

1:22:28

forths. but I grew

1:22:30

all at every point

1:22:33

stayed classy. Elon texted

1:22:35

him April fifth would

1:22:37

be great to unwind permanent bands. You know, that is, except for

1:22:39

spam accounts and those that

1:22:43

explicitly advocate violence, Agrowal.

1:22:46

Agrowal, I don't know why I have such a hard time saying Agrowal. Agrowal did not

1:22:52

respond Just Yeah.

1:22:54

Mhmm. What's that set there? Okay. Mhmm. Uh-huh.

1:23:00

Instead, Agarwal invites us to talk about

1:23:02

a specific technical ideas asking him to treat me like an engineer

1:23:07

instead of CEO, I promise I'll evaluate proposals

1:23:09

neutrally. I wanna hear all the ideas, and I'll tell you which ones

1:23:11

we'll make progress on

1:23:14

versus not. And why? In

1:23:17

other words, he stayed classy, man. Yeah. So -- Yeah. -- so in all of this props to

1:23:20

two people,

1:23:23

Paragrawal,

1:23:24

the c current CEO,

1:23:26

I would say, interim CEO of of Twitter. And

1:23:31

the the judge Kathleen McCormick, who,

1:23:33

I think, pulled off a pretty savvy coup that

1:23:36

worked by releasing at

1:23:38

least his first trench of

1:23:40

message and

1:23:42

saying, there are more to come. I

1:23:44

think I can channel Stacey right now to

1:23:46

say we've done Elon. We are done. I

1:23:49

tried to end it a while ago.

1:23:51

We are done. We we are done. We have we

1:23:53

ain't gonna talk about stadia. We haven't even gotten to stadia. But

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1:27:00

Well, it was just inevitable. IIII

1:27:03

thought we'd already talked about

1:27:05

this, but I guess

1:27:07

it came after Twig last week. Google

1:27:10

has announced despite denials as recently as July. Yeah.

1:27:12

I guess we're gonna

1:27:14

shut down Stadia after all.

1:27:17

the good thing is they're gonna re

1:27:20

refund any game and the hardware purchases. Of course, your

1:27:22

subscription fees will not be refunded two thousand dollars

1:27:24

worth Yeah.

1:27:26

Well, it could be a lot. There

1:27:29

is that one guy

1:27:32

who who played Red Dead

1:27:34

Redemption, for a total of two hundred

1:27:36

and forty six days.

1:27:39

Jeez. Not only

1:27:41

once, Mind you. But, you

1:27:43

know, he played enough Red Dead Redemption. Almost six hundred hours

1:27:48

that his character very evolved I'm

1:27:51

sorry. Did I say six hundred six thousand hours? And

1:27:53

he's gonna lose

1:27:56

that character On January

1:27:58

one, when Stadia shuts down, he's a YouTuber, it's color TV.

1:28:00

He tweeted shortly

1:28:03

after the news. No. You

1:28:07

don't understand how seriously pissed off

1:28:09

I am. For for

1:28:12

context, these hours, all

1:28:14

six thousand on Google stadia,

1:28:16

when Google shuts down, my

1:28:18

character my two hundred forty

1:28:21

six day old

1:28:24

character will Disappear, he's begging

1:28:26

Rockstar the owner of Red Dead Redemption to let him port his character

1:28:29

from one or

1:28:32

the other. mean, that's probably the worst case scenario,

1:28:34

but there are people who have invested some time. So he can port the character. No. Not not

1:28:36

not as of

1:28:39

now he's asking to. He's asking. Yeah.

1:28:41

As of now, when Stadia shuts down, he will

1:28:43

be out of luck. Well, what is what

1:28:46

but doesn't what I mean,

1:28:48

Google's has a

1:28:50

a policy on it on on being able to export your stock. Yeah. But the Rockstar

1:28:53

has to support

1:28:56

it too. Yeah. I

1:28:58

know that. was and

1:29:00

Ben Thompson points to that, it was a

1:29:02

bad idea right from the very beginning.

1:29:05

he

1:29:07

he says says

1:29:08

the problem with stadia was

1:29:10

it was a product in search

1:29:13

of an idea that Google said, well, we've got

1:29:15

this capability. We don't know anything about gaming.

1:29:20

but we could make

1:29:23

a service, a

1:29:25

gaming service.

1:29:26

And, you know,

1:29:29

that wasn't enough. He says, here's why Stadia was a bad

1:29:31

product to

1:29:31

grant Ben Thompson

1:29:32

Stratek where he

1:29:35

quotes another writer

1:29:37

another writer

1:29:39

Devon

1:29:39

called away of TechCrunch saying

1:29:41

the tech techical implementation

1:29:43

certainly wasn't to

1:29:46

be faulted. at its best stadium was better

1:29:48

than its competitors almost magical in

1:29:50

how it fulfilled the promise of going

1:29:52

to zero to in game in one

1:29:54

second. The business side was never quite so inspiring. Ben

1:29:57

says, I'd go farther. I'd say

1:29:59

it was lazy and stupid. In

1:30:02

fact, in fact, it was so

1:30:04

lazy and stupid that I was far

1:30:06

more optimistic than I should have been

1:30:09

when I rode up Stadia the

1:30:11

first time. Google,

1:30:12

undoubtedly spent tremendous amounts of

1:30:13

time and rates been getting stadia

1:30:15

to work from

1:30:18

a technical perspective. then proceeded to spend literally zero time

1:30:20

figuring out a business model that

1:30:22

made sense with streaming much

1:30:25

less actually actually

1:30:27

marketing the service. I

1:30:30

guess

1:30:30

III can't disagree with that. They have some really great technical including the

1:30:32

controller that was connected directly

1:30:34

to Google's servers via WiFi. instead

1:30:39

of through the game, which really made a difference in terms of latency. I

1:30:41

played a a few games on stadia that

1:30:43

played better on

1:30:45

stadia than they would play. like cyberpunk two thousand seventy

1:30:48

seven, they would have played

1:30:50

locally. But it's not

1:30:51

exactly people who the only person

1:30:53

who's crying is this one guy red How much of a refund

1:30:55

you getting? How much did you spend?

1:30:58

I think only I spent subscription

1:31:00

fees and bought

1:31:02

one games, so maybe I'll get cyberpunk. So

1:31:04

can I ask you to re reprise

1:31:06

one of your favorite sticks, which

1:31:09

is your

1:31:10

your disappointment in Google?

1:31:13

And I'm starting to see it better after

1:31:15

the, you know, the collection of tombstones here. What's

1:31:17

missing there? What what's

1:31:19

happening at Google? Oh,

1:31:22

actually, there's a very good I mean, I think we've probably

1:31:24

said this before. I don't

1:31:26

know if I bookmarked it.

1:31:29

There's a very good analysis that says the real

1:31:31

problem is very simple. It's structural. I think maybe

1:31:33

it was

1:31:34

Mike Elgin who said this, that

1:31:36

that people get promotions

1:31:38

for inventing a new product.

1:31:40

but get no incentive for maintaining an

1:31:42

existing persona. Yep. So the whole the whole way Google is

1:31:47

set up is to create lots of new products and not support them.

1:31:49

So of course, what do you

1:31:51

get? A Google graveyard. because

1:31:55

nobody's nobody's supporting these. We've been saying this. I know it's

1:31:57

what I do. I start new degrees, but then I have I'm

1:31:59

inspired enough to hire the people

1:32:01

who actually run them when I when I back off.

1:32:03

Well and that's why First, Mike says the real problem is Sundar Pichai.

1:32:05

It's it's at at the top. It's leadership,

1:32:08

not not not

1:32:10

solving this, not restructuring

1:32:13

ADD

1:32:14

Google, everything. Yeah. All over the Dagram place. Yeah.

1:32:20

It honestly I mean, I don't know

1:32:22

who else you would blame. Yep. I think

1:32:25

it's pretty clear that that's the

1:32:27

problem. Many many people have it.

1:32:30

They've been saying it for years. Google

1:32:32

incents people to come up with no ideas, but doesn't doesn't Supposedly,

1:32:34

Larry and Sergei are saying, oh, we gotta do something?

1:32:39

No.

1:32:39

Well, maybe Oh. I

1:32:41

don't think they're so dialed out.

1:32:43

So dialed out. Yeah.

1:32:45

They're Here's none. Here's a tweet. This is I think