0:00

Welcome to Twit this week in tech.

0:02

I'm Devendra Hardwar, a senior editor at

0:04

Engadget. This week we're joined by Scott

0:06

Stein from CNET, Glenn Fleischman and Alex

0:08

Lindsay. We're diving into the recent bill

0:10

that could potentially ban TikTok in the

0:12

US. We also talk about the state

0:14

of social media and what we like

0:17

the most and, you know, maybe what

0:19

we do or don't want from an

0:21

Apple car and CarPlay. Podcasts

0:25

you love from people you

0:27

trust. This is

0:30

Twit. You're

0:36

watching Twit this week in tech episode 971, recorded

0:38

March 17th, 2024, the element of

0:43

chaos. This episode

0:45

of this week in tech is brought to you by

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own Tp I checklist

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Sniff sweet.com/do it. It's

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time for twenty this weekend's heck, I'm senior

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editor. It's Winter Hardware from and gathered I'm

2:18

filling in for Leo Laporte. He's taking a

2:21

well deserved break and wouldn't be talking about

2:23

all sorts of stuff but the only tic

2:25

toc and the lead Us government moves around

2:27

that and joining me today I think is

2:30

us one of the most interesting panels in

2:32

tech This people who have so many towns

2:34

we've got Glenn placements. How's it

2:36

going Glenn? I'm doing fine. he was. thanks for

2:38

me on. Thank. You for joining us

2:41

like I've been reading and listening to you

2:43

forever Glendale So there you are. A are

2:45

typesetter your you've been working type forever right?

2:47

That's what I was. I was were less

2:49

people screamed as a typesetter in the in

2:52

the eighties A using photo types of the

2:54

equipment and and somehow I find myself in

2:56

the teacher like I'm a man at a

2:58

time. Awesome, awesome and York Also currently trying

3:00

to kick start a book right now right?

3:03

That's right, That's A at a book about

3:05

the history of a newspaper, comics production and

3:07

reproduction from an artist's pen all the way

3:09

through. Do appearing on paper and I

3:11

will never be told. Never told before.

3:14

Stories stories never told before I said

3:16

sites including How A Week of Dewsbury

3:18

Nice and Seventy Three It's never ran

3:21

because John Ehrlichman resigned. Today was the

3:23

name of the book in the Kickstarter.

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It's a console. Comics were made and

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it's live on Kickstarter. You also find

3:30

it that's sell comics were made at.think

3:32

that stuff I and says. Awesome!

3:34

and be that's got sign editor at large at

3:37

see that he's got thousand guns. Has

3:39

been deceived of interest on I went down

3:41

here. Episodes this will be

3:43

find. We've also got Alex Lindsay had have

3:46

opted oh nine digits hey has gone and

3:48

could be. It is. It's a chat

3:50

with you to every time I see oh

3:52

ninety I'm thinking go Ninety which is the

3:54

the Rise and thing and I was a

3:56

par I was we were working as part

3:58

of Horizon when that thing one since that

4:00

was a fun the thing over and visit

4:02

the crazy idea the owner, the company's name

4:04

is Mark East and so an East or

4:06

L Zero Nine Zero is the East East

4:08

media so that them as for it comes

4:11

from because remember don't I need you remember

4:13

what the the pits for Go Ninety One

4:15

members know ninety but a camera What account

4:17

for the detail, the rise in territory it

4:19

we will. It's one of a thing where

4:21

when you're in accompanying you watch your parent

4:23

companies are doing the dumbest thing possible and

4:25

able to call Bill Nine to me because

4:27

it was oh when people are watching video

4:29

on their phones. Are going to turn

4:31

their portrait facing some landscape. You're gonna

4:33

go ninety of baby to watch my

4:36

video. On. Mobile. Ah,

4:38

is everybody wants to do that right? Is wants

4:40

to be that way or could be So Maybe

4:42

city, my queer, the Us and the but it.

4:45

But this on landscape play. it was a landslide

4:47

faith. In. Line for the found. You know

4:49

I, you're allowed. I held out for a long time

4:51

like I like ominous. I was just really should be

4:53

sixteen by nine. And then there's some point where I'm

4:56

where someone put something sixteen my nine into tic toc

4:58

Or something like that are like. Why? Are

5:00

they doing? This is really hard rock.

5:02

It's it's hard to turn sideways or

5:04

entirely This a new trend. I didn't

5:06

discover this but I read about in

5:08

line Broderick's are garbage say newsletter Fleming

5:10

said now where he the air avatar

5:13

less and Airbender the film where They

5:15

Live actually is saw you know it's

5:17

you know correct proportions for television it

5:19

sought were all of the axe and

5:21

is in the center tic toc frame.

5:23

For. Clipping and he said another movie came out. He

5:26

was looking at all the previous for it or

5:28

not it seems. yes it was the same thing.

5:30

There's no action that doesn't occur, it's and then

5:32

lane so while they're shooting they may have a

5:34

frame on it and he makes sense to obviously

5:36

the way things are shared as but not for

5:38

bought it for it's a viral quip sharing would

5:40

you do that and it's I don't know am

5:42

curious of it plays out of a timer assist

5:44

I would use. I. Now. And I

5:46

find that by the fact that we're changing all the

5:48

different formats in a one of these we noticed a

5:50

little while ago a Jr. the band. Started.

5:52

Releasing their videos at like one for three

5:55

seven you know like it wasn't wasn't have

5:57

one of the Imax is one for three

5:59

yep and in in but it wasn't quite

6:01

one for three either. but it's it is

6:04

is weird. kind of squarish but not totally

6:06

square formats. It looks great like like you

6:08

know I and and what's interesting that we

6:10

weren't one things we found with their apple

6:13

the Him pro is that that format looks

6:15

way better on the vision prose and and

6:17

saw to free fiber sixteen by nine because

6:19

the way your field of view works as

6:22

he see a lot up and down but

6:24

you don't see him as much in the

6:26

vision pro side to side and so that

6:28

kind of squarish format tends. To actually play

6:30

out really well on the on the nation from. that's

6:33

why the Imax app actually looks from and is Scott

6:35

like he played around with that I remember a like

6:37

me it leveling. it feels like you're in an Imax

6:39

theater because you get the vertical and a scale there.

6:42

And get says and I. I feel like

6:44

I'm getting frustrated by some of the trying

6:46

to get a movie screen to sit in

6:48

the perfect way when watching sling It works.

6:50

but then I keep going to adjust. Nice.

6:52

I want to sign in June two in

6:54

Ocala. Yeah, you know I moan and when

6:56

I come. I. Think I want those

6:59

theatres but I never want to use that the

7:01

likes of the Apple One. Let's you sit in

7:03

the front or the back of the mental or

7:05

whatever and I might have pop the window up

7:07

what I do as I go in and I

7:09

get the lights. I usually Joshua Tree at night

7:11

or whatever but I put up as the general

7:13

background and then I put. Then. I put

7:15

the screen on top of it so that I can to

7:17

do exactly what's gone. Sounds like a mood. the screen to

7:19

where I want it. I don't want to put in a

7:21

theater is that white? Mice

7:24

I was a distance and want to censor Jordan

7:26

said it's and I want to fine tuning and

7:28

then I feel like I'm stuck in like three

7:30

different forms which I'm also usually go nineteen when

7:32

I'm like lying down as I go ninety by

7:34

the way filming out for as a personal assistant

7:36

it's and as I had a gun has to

7:38

be I've not touched of isn't pro yet not

7:40

at a fool and to stance even done it

7:43

he says I mean for me to listen. you

7:45

can sign up for free demo and an apple

7:47

store and it is it is worth thirty minutes

7:49

of your time because i think i mean scott

7:51

like you had a longer view i'm going to

7:53

fricking longer view of a to like between put

7:55

some of the thought of that thing and that's

7:57

it is so fascinating even if you don't think

7:59

you know something It is one of

8:01

the most fascinating things I've ever seen. Yeah

8:04

I think for me that the interesting thing wasn't the

8:06

first 20 minutes, it was a week or two into

8:08

it. Because I use

8:10

the Quest a lot, I've been using the Quest since

8:12

it was an Oculus and I'll oftentimes have it on

8:14

for half an hour a day or something like that.

8:17

I like doing Supernatural which is the boxing thing.

8:20

And I like Robo Recall which is

8:22

in my... I like just

8:24

ripping Android's heads off. Anyway

8:27

so the... So

8:31

I... It's a great way to pass

8:33

some time. But I noticed that with the Quest I put

8:35

it on and I go and play this and those are

8:37

great, both of those are great products. But

8:40

then I take it off and put it down. Like okay

8:42

I've done the thing that I was going to do. On

8:44

the Vision Pro... It's very single use. Yeah. It

8:46

is. On the Vision Pro I get in and

8:48

I'm kind of fiddling around. I'm texting some folks and I do this...

8:51

And I think that one of the things that really pays off where you can

8:53

kind of tell people who like the Vision Pro are real... Often...

8:57

Not always. Often real Apple people who have

8:59

committed to all the Apple, the ecosystem. Like

9:02

I have 600 videos on Apple TV. So when

9:04

I put it on there's all these videos. No

9:06

now there's all these 3D videos that I didn't

9:08

even... You know they just are now available and

9:10

now there's all these other videos. And so I

9:12

can sit there... I have lots to watch. And

9:14

I suddenly... What I realized with the Vision Pro

9:16

and again the wait... First 20

9:18

minutes, first 30 minutes you're like wow this is really heavy. And

9:20

then after... You know I don't know.

9:22

I don't think about that anymore. But

9:25

I noticed that it's like... There's been a couple times where like

9:27

holy smokes I've been here for 3 hours. You

9:30

know like I've been sitting here doing something. And

9:32

again it's like I stop and start and do

9:34

things and move around. And

9:37

so it's just a really... That's the thing that I

9:39

find is that when people say what are you doing on the Apple Vision

9:41

Pro. Like if you told me what are you doing

9:43

on the Quest I can always tell you what I'm doing on the Quest. On

9:46

the Vision Pro I'm like I'm kind of hanging

9:48

out. Just kind of living in spatial computing. Like

9:52

one thing I love is the blowing up the Mac

9:54

you know display to like an ungodly size. And sometimes

9:57

I just sit and write and do that with a

9:59

ton of work. windows around me, but I'm so

10:01

focused on the work and

10:03

the research and stuff I'm doing. It's kind of

10:05

wild. Well, actually, this is a good topic, like

10:07

good to talk about like all these legacy video

10:10

things and also what the Vision Pro is doing

10:12

the video to because the big topic this week

10:14

is TikTok and everything happening around

10:16

that. And apparently there was a really

10:18

fast moving bipartisan push to approve the

10:20

bill that could potentially ban TikTok

10:22

in the US or at least get it passing through

10:25

the House. We still don't know what's going to happen

10:27

with the Senate. We do know that

10:29

President Biden has said if this thing passes

10:31

Congress, he will sign it. And

10:34

specifically they're saying this

10:37

is basically they're calling

10:39

it a divestment bill.

10:41

Like if it's

10:43

basically to push ByteDance to sell

10:46

TikTok in the US basically, they

10:48

have 180 days to do

10:50

that or it'll be delisted from app stores. They're

10:53

saying it's not a TikTok ban, but it sure does sound like a

10:56

ban to me. I

10:58

feel like this has been a topic at Twit for

11:00

the past couple of years. I think even since it

11:02

started with Trump, but I also know like this

11:05

has come and gone, but it seems like this

11:07

is the closest it's ever been. And it's kind

11:09

of wild to me that there is such like

11:11

bipartisan support for getting rid of TikTok at this

11:13

point. I just want to what do you guys

11:15

think about this? I think I can help themselves.

11:18

So the concern is that is

11:20

not really about data. I mean, some people are

11:22

talking about data, but the real concern is influence

11:24

and the influence can be

11:27

both overt influence, which is get everybody

11:29

to do something at one time, but also subtle.

11:32

And people say, well, it's not doing a very good job. There

11:34

was a couple articles that were we were reading and it's not

11:36

doing a very good job if the idea is to make China

11:38

more popular, but that might not be the goal. The

11:40

goal may be to waste people's time and

11:42

make them not trust their own government or

11:44

their own media very much. You

11:47

know, like so we think that someone's going to

11:49

do something right on the nose, but if you

11:51

were smart, you wouldn't do that. You would do

11:53

it in a very subtle way. You and you

11:55

move the needle a couple percentage points one way

11:57

or the other, and that would be

11:59

enough to affect. you know, people over time, you know, you

12:01

have to think about it in the long term. So that's the

12:03

concern. I'm, by the way, I love TikTok.

12:05

I watched the article. Yeah. So I'm not,

12:07

I just want to make sure we're clear. I don't think

12:09

that they should get rid of TikTok, but I'm just saying

12:12

that I understand, and then what TikTok did to make it,

12:14

uh, to make this hard

12:16

is they told everyone to go call their Congress

12:18

person. They did exactly, exactly what they were worried

12:20

about. And of course everyone's like, okay, let's vote.

12:23

You know, cause cause they just, they did the

12:25

scary thing that everyone was afraid that the China

12:27

would do. And we do have

12:29

to remember that China, the China's relationship with

12:31

its companies are not the same as our

12:33

relationship with our companies. You know, like, you

12:35

know, you know, we're not, not our, but

12:37

our government's relationship, our government's relationship with, with

12:39

companies is usually tenuous at best. I mean,

12:41

they both kind of put up with each

12:44

other and don't really like each other most

12:46

of the time in China. And the government's

12:48

pretty embedded into what the, what large companies

12:50

like ByteDance are doing. And so there is

12:52

a kind of a valid concern of, of

12:54

those types of things. So I, so I,

12:57

again, as a TikTok lover, I don't make

12:59

a lot of, I don't make a lot of TikToks

13:01

myself, but I watch a lot of other people's work.

13:03

Um, and I think that you do see hints of

13:05

what could happen. Inocuous hints.

13:07

I mean, but some, some

13:10

women in the UK decided to

13:12

start dancing to David Gray's Babylon

13:15

and now it's everywhere and

13:17

showing them back on radio, you know,

13:19

because, because, you know, someone literally

13:22

after a hangover decided to recover

13:25

by doing Babylon once. And that's the kind of ripple

13:28

effect that I think that they're afraid of. But in a

13:30

nefarious way, if it happened, you can see

13:32

the kind of influence that TikTok can exude

13:35

in that process. And you're specifically talking about,

13:37

um, so TikTok within the app sent a

13:39

push notification to you, a US user saying,

13:41

Hey, call your Congressperson type in your and

13:43

they just overwhelmed. I mean, they overwhelmed the systems

13:46

of all these Congress people. And that was exactly what they're

13:48

worried that China is going to do to them. It's

13:50

a, it was perhaps not the best move

13:52

because there was reporting saying that some, some

13:54

people who are like leading maybe yeses on

13:57

the bill went definitely yes after seeing this,

13:59

even though. I'll point out Uber and a

14:01

lot of companies have done very

14:03

similar things within their app like call your converse

14:05

person because Your city is trying to regulate us

14:07

out of business. They just weren't as effective Yeah,

14:10

they weren't as effective but they weren't China and

14:12

I feel like that's the big scary thing here

14:14

But Scott glad I don't I don't have tick-tock

14:16

installed on any of my devices and I encourage

14:18

my children not to install neither And

14:21

I am I'm not a

14:23

xenophobic person, but I also

14:25

do not trust China's Policies in

14:27

any way and I think companies doing

14:29

business in China whether they're Chinese companies

14:31

or companies that are based elsewhere suffer

14:34

from both secret laws

14:37

and a lack of a trustable

14:39

court system that works in a least

14:42

ostensibly fairway and from government

14:44

mandates that require that they

14:47

Adhere to rules that are far beyond what

14:49

we see in most democratic nations in

14:52

terms of oversight and involvement and you see

14:54

this just Constantly preemptive

14:56

self-censorship and censorship or

14:59

actions based on what has

15:01

to happen Because you're doing

15:03

this in China or you're a Chinese

15:05

citizen and the reach that China wants

15:07

is so huge So I will not

15:09

defend Facebook or Twitter or any

15:11

other social network That's us based or based

15:13

in another country for how they're dealing

15:16

with moderation Doing with

15:18

material that targets miners personal information.

15:20

There's no argument there that tick-tock

15:22

is somehow magically worse, but

15:24

I think they're operating under a They're

15:28

operating under a regime and both

15:30

like regime regulatory regime But also

15:33

a regime that exercises more direct

15:35

control So I've always

15:37

felt dubious about what tech talk could

15:39

be despite whatever the motivations are of

15:41

the company Itself and so

15:43

I don't want to blame I would never blame

15:45

the people of China for something like this But

15:48

it's easy to say the Chinese government Tiktok

15:50

could further the goals of the Chinese

15:52

government in terms of their extensive interest

15:55

in espionage and breaking into systems and

15:57

gathering information You know, China has been

15:59

incredibly objective job of being a

16:01

21st century cyber

16:05

whatever, like multi-phasic warfare

16:08

against sort

16:10

of a cold cyber war, right?

16:12

That China sees themselves existentially threatened

16:14

by everyone else in

16:16

the world and some things they're doing I

16:18

think are very positive in terms of trying

16:21

to establish Chinese businesses, people buying in China

16:23

from Chinese companies and other things are outwardly

16:25

negative to the rest of the world. I

16:27

don't think TikTok views per se

16:29

that but there's nothing that protects us from

16:32

it. And where Facebook when subject

16:34

to regulation I believe has

16:36

to, you know, does adhere to it ultimately or is

16:38

under some kind of stricture

16:41

that they do because they're doing business

16:43

in countries that have different reliable

16:46

judicial systems and so forth. Gotcha. I do want

16:48

to be clear. It seems like the

16:50

politicians supporting this bill are saying yeah they are

16:52

worried about the data

16:54

that China gets access to because of TikTok,

16:57

they're worried about this sort of like undue

16:59

influence. As we've kind of like

17:01

hinted at here like other social media companies get

17:03

access to the same sort of data. They just

17:05

don't have the same sort of influence on us.

17:07

They're certainly not owned by China. I feel like

17:09

that's the big scary boogeyman to me. And

17:12

to be fair, we have our own propaganda machine. We

17:14

have our own, like our government does. You know, like

17:16

we're not, we shouldn't be like innocent lilies here. No,

17:18

no, no, no, no, no. I don't want to post

17:20

that. I'll fight back on the

17:22

both side which is that there's a distinct difference

17:24

between the way in which China requires companies there

17:26

to secretly provide information with no

17:28

oversight, with no free, you

17:31

know, journalistic entities available. So when

17:33

things like AT&T's involvement in

17:35

alleged involvement, I don't know if it

17:38

was ever proven, involvement in providing information

17:40

from their core phone network to government

17:42

agency and stuff where that gets investigated,

17:44

exposed. Some actions turn out to be

17:46

illegal. They get overturned. Companies

17:49

here respond. Google starts encrypting data and

17:51

between data centers. Companies in China have

17:53

no ability for recourse to do any

17:55

of that. Right. But I'm saying as

17:57

a projection company, I mean, you know,

17:59

our government. and a lot of things project

18:01

a lot of things into a lot of countries. We

18:03

do a lot of those things. It's just that

18:06

China is an adversary. Like we just have to

18:08

remember that we don't view China as our, you

18:10

know, like if the UK was doing TikTok, we'd

18:12

be like, ah, you know, they're having a good

18:14

time. But China is specifically,

18:17

you know, China and Russia are two largest adversaries.

18:19

China probably being the most serious adversary to the

18:21

United States. And so in the same way that

18:23

China has turned off a lot of our social

18:25

networks there because they don't wanna be affected by

18:28

it, the United States is not

18:30

worried about TikTok being influential. It's

18:32

worried about our primary adversary having

18:35

a thumb on the

18:37

ability to move ideas, you know? And

18:39

I think that I don't, again,

18:41

I don't necessarily agree with banning it.

18:44

I do think that, you know, making

18:46

the threat of, you know, that they have to

18:48

divest, I think the chances of it going

18:50

away are very, very low. The,

18:53

you know, I think that the chances of this passing

18:55

the Senate are probably less than 50%. The

18:57

chances of them not divesting, if it did get signed is

18:59

probably less than 10%. So it's

19:01

probably not a high probability this is actually gonna happen.

19:04

What it does do is it

19:06

pushes lots of users out of

19:08

TikTok. So the TikTokers are now,

19:10

like they're all promoting their YouTube channels. You

19:12

know, like I'm also on YouTube and I'm

19:15

also on, you know, so just rattling the

19:17

saber is enough to kind of weaken

19:19

the system. And it also puts

19:21

China a little bit on, you know,

19:23

basically reminds them that we're

19:25

looking. Like we're rattling the

19:27

saber, we're banging on a, we're banging on

19:30

the pipe. Like we could come after

19:32

you, you know, and I think that there's

19:34

a little bit of that, which again scares some folks.

19:36

And again, the many TikTokers, the first

19:38

time this happened, many of them

19:40

started building their, what

19:42

is now a very large following on YouTube.

19:45

So the thing is, is that they, every

19:47

time we do this, there's this huge wash

19:50

of both creators and

19:52

followers of those creators going to

19:54

primarily YouTube. I think YouTube is

19:56

the primary benefactor of these kinds

19:58

of. of interactions

20:01

because of shorts is a very natural thing for

20:03

them to go to. And it's a

20:05

little less sticky. It's, it's easier for them to just

20:07

kind of push people towards as opposed to, and I

20:09

think Instagram and Facebook both benefited as well. I think

20:11

YouTube is probably the primary benefit. I think this is

20:13

a big topic by the way, and I want to

20:16

come back to this, but let's go to Leo to

20:18

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21:59

right. Let's get back to Twit, Devinder Hardwar,

22:02

take it away. Well,

22:04

thank you, Leo. Back to TikTok.

22:08

I've been, you know, I've had a couple

22:10

of chances to chat with the great documentary

22:12

director Alex Gibney, and he did

22:14

a movie almost a decade ago that's basically

22:16

about China being the center of cyber cold

22:18

war, you know? And that

22:21

seems like the thing, I think, people

22:23

in government and politicians are also really

22:25

worried about. And us on the

22:27

ground, we don't really think about that much. We will

22:30

occasionally see companies or

22:32

certain types of infrastructure or hospitals get

22:34

attacked. And sometimes those are tied to

22:36

agents of the Chinese government. But beyond

22:38

that, it seems like there's

22:40

no direct conflict happening

22:43

between our two countries. Scott, I'm

22:45

wondering, what do you think of

22:48

this entire situation? And I've been listening to all

22:50

of you, thinking about this, and it's like, you

22:52

know, when TikTok first launched, I thought it was

22:54

weird. And I

22:56

felt like what's going on here? And

23:00

then a lot of time went by. It's odd to

23:02

me, I don't know the time

23:04

frames. And one question for you is, when TikTok launched

23:06

or when they bought Musical.ly? So

23:09

that's the other thing, because it's different,

23:11

because Musical.ly had its own culture, which

23:13

still permeates TikTok. But

23:16

I think now, obviously, it

23:18

has a lot of power, sure.

23:21

And it's very popular, and people are

23:23

finding things useful about it, too. So

23:27

I don't know the timing on, you know,

23:29

when are people decide, okay, this is now

23:31

a threat? Because I feel like that should

23:33

have been perceived like then all along. But,

23:36

you know, that's what's a little strange to

23:38

me, that

23:40

this is like, that now this is taking action.

23:42

The problem is now that, maybe it is because

23:44

it has its power, but people are also used

23:46

to using it. So we're in

23:49

the midst of this big social

23:51

media fatigue zone and falling out

23:53

all over the place. And like

23:56

on a functional level, it's probably one of

23:58

the least problematic. that

24:00

are out there. I will introduce

24:02

a conspiracy theory for you that's starting to build

24:04

up. That the timing of this

24:06

is remarkably close to TikTok not making a

24:08

deal with UMG. So

24:11

Universal Media Group, there's

24:14

a growing number of people that think that,

24:16

wow, that was, you know, like the timing

24:19

of the band and the breakdown

24:21

of with the largest company in

24:23

the music industry, may

24:26

not be completely disconnected. There's

24:29

a couple of things there, but one of them is that

24:32

surely if that happened, it would make TikTok

24:35

much less relevant, and so that problem takes

24:37

care of itself. But I think one thing

24:39

we haven't discussed before, I think most people

24:41

realize this, but I'm surprised when I find

24:43

someone who doesn't, which is that part

24:45

of the Cold War aspect is that TikTok's available

24:47

here in the United States and

24:49

in other countries. It's not available in

24:51

China. And that most, I think, is

24:53

there any American-based or European-based social networks

24:56

available in China anymore? I mean, Facebook

24:58

isn't Twitter. No. Right. So

25:00

there's an asymmetry, which is usually you

25:02

assume there's something, there's a Cold War

25:04

happening when there's no bombs dropping. And

25:06

there's an asymmetry in information availability. So

25:08

that is one issue. And it's one

25:10

thing that's been used as a cudgel,

25:12

too, is if TikTok is so great

25:14

and it's not dangerous, why doesn't China

25:16

allow it in its own country? And

25:18

it has an analog there. But there

25:20

is that that gets us into the

25:22

whole censorship thing, the tightness by which

25:24

China controls its citizens, controls the information

25:26

they see. Internet access in general, kids

25:28

can only play online

25:30

games for a certain amount of hours every school

25:33

day, things like that. Sounds like a dream to

25:35

American parents sometimes. But then you're like, but what

25:37

are we required to allow that? Yeah. I'm here

25:39

right now because I had way too much time

25:42

online when I was a teenager. Yeah, me too.

25:45

That's what it gets you, not like an army,

25:47

not a nation of would-be engineers, maybe. So I

25:49

don't know. There's a give and take there. I

25:51

want to point something out, too. There's

25:54

a lot of pushback against this, including from

25:56

Mike Masnick of TechDirt, who's often here on

25:58

Twitch and a great guest. And always

26:00

somebody I love to listen to, and he wrote a great piece titled,

26:03

Once More With Feeling, banning TikTok is unconstitutional

26:05

and won't do it to deal with any

26:07

actual threats. And that is kind of where

26:09

I'm coming down on it. It does. Yes,

26:12

China does ban all other social networks.

26:14

China does completely lock down

26:16

what its citizens can see. I don't

26:18

know if like, that's

26:20

not necessarily like a lesson we should be, we

26:22

should be taking from them. Like, it

26:25

seems like a bad precedent for us to start going

26:27

down this path. And

26:29

we get to make this clear, like

26:31

all the things we're worried about that

26:33

TikTok is doing, getting access to our

26:35

data, influencing the population, that is something

26:37

every single social network, especially

26:40

like the US founded ones, are

26:42

all responsible for. It was not 2016, it's

26:45

not that long ago, when we were

26:47

reading about like the Russian influence on

26:49

Twitter, and you know, how that impacted

26:51

that election too. So is this an illegal

26:53

taking also? It's like they're an argument he

26:56

made, and not always unconstitutional potentially, but that

26:58

this is actually, it's a wealth transfer from

27:00

a Chinese company to some apparent like Steve

27:02

Mnuchin has put in, I guess is working

27:04

on a proposal to take over TikTok. And

27:06

it's like, well, okay, so the money, it's

27:09

gonna lose a lot of value because the

27:11

algorithm is not part of the assets, Chinese

27:13

wouldn't allow the algorithm to be exported, he

27:15

knows to be used. Right. So

27:18

yeah, so there's an argument made there. But at some level, this is, you

27:20

know, the argument from the classical

27:23

conservative perspective would be, this is

27:25

a taking of property without just

27:27

compensation, in addition to any constitutional

27:29

arguments. But it's China, therefore

27:31

bad, therefore, it's mine now. To

27:35

me, that feels just really wild. Axios

27:37

had a good piece talk about the

27:39

potential valuations. They're saying TikTok is

27:41

estimated to be worth $100 billion if

27:43

it does somehow include the algorithm or

27:46

$40 billion if it doesn't, which I

27:48

think who will, who could buy that

27:51

is another big tech company. And

27:54

that's the other problem. Yeah, I think the algorithm might have

27:56

been important now, but I think a lot of people have

27:58

a pretty good sense of how that algorithm works. And

28:01

I don't think it's as magical as it sounds. I

28:03

think that there is something that's magical. I

28:06

spent a lot of time analyzing these

28:08

things for creators. And one

28:10

of the things that we look at is that there's

28:13

a distinct difference between TikTok

28:15

and other ones. And it's the

28:17

nature of sharing content between users.

28:20

So there is an incredible, like if you use

28:22

somebody else's thing on YouTube, you

28:24

get immediately, you can be either

28:27

flagged, demonetized, whereas on TikTok,

28:29

people put things up with the intention

28:31

of you taking from them. And

28:34

so you'll see something that gets popular. It might have a

28:36

quarter million, not a quarter million viewers, a

28:38

quarter million videos created with the

28:41

same audio sample. And

28:43

so the thing is, like the David Gray one that

28:46

I talked, I study things like that. So I watch

28:48

them and I just see, okay, where is this going?

28:50

And how many? It's like the last time I looked,

28:52

there was like 4,500 videos have been made with the

28:54

same sample. And David Gray shows

28:56

up on some of them, because I think he's as

28:58

mystified as everybody else. This hit

29:00

was like 25 years ago and suddenly everybody's playing it.

29:03

And so the interesting thing is, and

29:05

I'm gonna propagate it here. It's

29:07

Babylon, by the way, Babylon. It's

29:10

a song, it's a good song, it's a great song. It's

29:12

not a song, not a superman, or a real song,

29:14

but man, it's a going. So anyway, and the same

29:16

thing, the Fleetwood Mac saw that with

29:18

one of their songs. And so

29:21

the thing is, is that

29:23

there's a nature of sharing between users

29:26

at TikTok that allow them to have

29:28

a unified experience among themselves. There

29:30

was a point where the, there was a

29:32

Nick Cage movie where he's laughing, or

29:35

there's back and forth. And

29:38

people get to show what their own life, how

29:40

their own life applies to the exact same clip.

29:42

And they get to share that over and over.

29:44

I mean, literally there were tens

29:47

of thousands or hundreds of thousands of videos of people saying, this

29:49

is what it's like in a meeting, or this is what it's

29:51

like in here. This was like with my wife, this is what

29:53

it's like, whatever it is. And

29:55

that is what's really powerful, I think,

29:57

about TikTok. You're absolutely right. Yeah. I

30:00

don't think it's necessarily the algorithm. I think that they

30:02

built a culture. I mean, I think the algorithm was

30:04

important in the beginning and it still is, but

30:07

it's a pretty, I think it's not that

30:09

complicated what they're doing. You know, and so,

30:11

but what is complicated is to build a culture

30:14

of 170 million people who

30:17

are believing this culture and use it all the time.

30:19

You know, so I think that that's the thing that

30:22

makes it valuable still. It's pure remix

30:24

culture, you know, and I think that's something that

30:27

to me has always been such a,

30:29

you know, strong part of the internet and what makes

30:31

the internet work so well. I mean, it's part of retweeting

30:34

on Twitter and, you know, and adding stuff to it like

30:36

that was a big part of the success there. I don't

30:38

want to point out like we're talking about this

30:40

is a successful mobile video platform and we

30:42

are just walking through a graveyard of failed

30:45

ones, right? Go90, Verizon's

30:48

Go90, Quibi. I talked to Jeffrey Katzenberg before

30:50

Quibi launched and part of my discussion was

30:52

like, what the hell are you doing? Nobody

30:55

wants this. Nobody wants to pay for mobile

30:58

video. YouTube is here for

31:00

free. What are you doing Jeffrey Katzenberg? They

31:02

raised $2 billion for that thing. And

31:05

so many like US companies have tried to

31:07

do mobile video and failed. Vine was

31:09

great. Vine was succeeding and then Twitter killed

31:11

it because they didn't fully see the potential of it and

31:13

Twitter was not making any money at the time either. So

31:15

they probably couldn't keep it running. But so

31:18

much of what makes TikTok work is the

31:20

power of Vine, right? Short

31:22

videos, short, easily shareable videos, but also that remix

31:24

culture and Instagram can't

31:26

do that. Facebook can't do that. Everyone's

31:29

racing to catch up. So yeah, you're

31:31

absolutely right. That's the thing. Even

31:34

YouTube who does shorts and shorts can

31:36

be fairly successful. I mean shorts are

31:38

a pretty powerful platform on their own.

31:40

Post-TikTok response by YouTube. Yeah, but indefinitely,

31:43

but they don't have

31:45

that remix culture and YouTube is very

31:47

still very protective. And that's their

31:50

Achilles heel when trying to compete with TikTok. And

31:52

they don't serve up in the same way. I

31:54

mean to me the ability, the easiness of creating

31:57

and of viewing. It's the

31:59

easiness too. I feel like

32:01

when I'm using TikTok that

32:03

it's not a hard thing to bring in that stuff. In

32:05

fact, it's just going to bring in the things that are

32:07

meant to be shared. And that's like the ease you have

32:09

with the text-based social media app, that you're going to do

32:11

that. Those are the

32:14

tools that exactly that need to be there. And then

32:16

the discoverability of the stuff that people have made as

32:18

a response is easy. So

32:20

then on YouTube, that's not. And

32:24

I think that's like that, even though I don't

32:26

like using TikTok all that much, I

32:29

already see when I do that

32:31

that stuff is a lot

32:33

easier to kind of follow through the threads and

32:35

work with. And it's just not like that on

32:37

Instagram. I'll tell you, there's

32:39

a great meme we missed, which is that

32:41

that could have happened, which is that you

32:43

remember the Star Trek Next Generation episode, in

32:45

which is an addictive game that everyone puts

32:48

on their head and they can't escape from,

32:50

right? So that's TikTok. Well, Ashley Judd appears

32:52

in that episode. Ashley Judd was

32:54

planning at one point to run for Senate. She

32:56

did not. Ashley Judd were in

32:58

the Senate and arguing that TikTok should be

33:00

banned. There would just be constant Star Trek

33:02

memes of her from that episode with the

33:04

goggles on. But

33:07

we missed that opportunity because I mean, we're not kicking

33:09

up for this. We're not. We're

33:11

not kicking up for that meme. There was a

33:13

great piece at 404 Media, a site that I

33:15

love by Jason Kobler that's called the US wants

33:17

to ban TikTok for the sins of every social

33:19

media company. Strong title and also

33:21

true. I think that is also

33:24

very true. Of course, there's all this stuff we're talking

33:26

about with China, but TikTok compared

33:28

to what other social media companies are doing,

33:30

are you guys like, well, how do you

33:32

feel about that? Because to

33:34

me, it feels like the real way to allay

33:36

our fears about what TikTok could do is to

33:39

pass a national data protection law or something like

33:41

to deal with this on a level that

33:43

covers everything and not just the thing from China.

33:47

I don't think I mean, I think your thing to solve, too. Yeah.

33:50

But yeah, sorry. Go ahead. I'm

33:54

my biggest complaint about social media in general is

33:56

that it's just a big waste of time, you

33:58

know, and so it's just. It just,

34:00

just as a, just,

34:05

if that's all TikTok did was waste Americans

34:07

time while Chinese continue to go to school,

34:10

it might be an effective tool to undermine

34:12

the entire country because of the amount of

34:14

time being spent on it. Like for instance,

34:16

I feel like I feel guilty watching TikTok

34:18

for time, not for anything else, but

34:20

I don't, I don't like biking in the morning. So I find that if

34:22

I, the only time I get to watch TikTok is

34:24

when I'm biking. I set up this

34:26

rule, so I have to be on my exercise bike before

34:29

I turn TikTok on. And so then, so that gets me

34:31

exercising because I want to get my 30 minutes or 45

34:33

minutes of TikTok in every

34:35

day. But I think

34:37

that the, so I combine those

34:39

things, but I, you know, I took Facebook off my

34:41

phone. I took all the meta stuff off my phone,

34:44

mostly because I realized I got a new

34:46

phone and I didn't put those on and my battery lasted

34:48

twice as long. And I was like, I don't know

34:50

what, it's not a privacy thing or anything else. I was just

34:53

like, my battery's lasting longer. I'm just going to leave them off.

34:56

And so, so I don't have any of the meta apps

34:58

on there. And I, Elon Musk has

35:00

made, has been gracious enough

35:02

to make X a lot harder to

35:04

enjoy. So it's been

35:06

really easy for me not to spend as much time

35:08

in X than I used to spend in Twitter. And

35:11

so I've been kind of fortunate that these ones now I

35:13

still watch, I

35:15

watch a lot of YouTube, mostly on my TV. Like

35:17

that's like my primary. The TV is so good. Yeah.

35:20

It's YouTube on the, like I just have it on my Apple

35:22

TV and I just watch in between YouTube and YouTube TV. And

35:24

I mean, that's, that's how I, like I put

35:26

up with watching movies now. Like I was, my

35:28

wife and I go back and she was like,

35:30

let's watch a movie. And I'm like, let's watch

35:33

YouTube. And it's not even like good to YouTube.

35:35

It's like, I stopped. I'm like, let's watch some

35:37

daily dose. Like the problem is we have to

35:39

wait for the daily doses to come out because

35:41

we've watched every single daily dose. You

35:43

know, now we're in the, we ran out of daily doses and now we're like

35:45

one, three, one, four, one six or something like that.

35:47

There's some new one that we're still working through. But

35:50

you know, and so the thing is, is that outside, that's the

35:52

only one that I really spend much time on now, but I've

35:54

been fortunate enough and there's so much good. I mean, I will

35:57

say for all the goofy stuff that we watch, I

35:59

watched. There's a new kid 18 year

36:01

old kid putting something on YouTube and it

36:03

is it's something like chemistry in 19 minutes

36:06

I can't think of any it's like wacky

36:08

scientist or wacky science. I think is the

36:10

name of the channel He's been out

36:12

for like two months. He's got 45,000 followers. I Learned

36:16

more in the first half of that video

36:19

about chemistry than I did as

36:21

a sophomore in high school for a whole year And

36:24

it was said more effectively And

36:26

it illustrated better than any of my teachers

36:29

did During that time and so,

36:31

you know That's what I think is the real

36:33

power of YouTube is that you just

36:35

get people who get creative about how and it's got

36:37

little funny things, you know, it's like, you know a

36:39

little funny like to keep it interesting and

36:41

so I think that there are Great uses for

36:43

social media as well but

36:45

I think that And

36:48

so it's not that I don't I think social media is

36:50

bad But I do think that I found that for myself I

36:52

had to stop using it so much You know, so now I

36:54

probably spend less than an hour a day on it. I find

36:57

you like I think of this TV I Agree

37:00

with the take though that like, I mean, I think

37:02

the China decision is Easy

37:05

to solve in that, you know, you can you

37:07

can make that demand but the bigger question of

37:09

what social media is still doing and What

37:12

the tangle of all this ends up becoming and

37:15

how how any government can

37:17

sort of be involved in having a say in that

37:20

I think is How There's

37:23

not been able to solve it and I think

37:26

social media keeps getting stranger and it

37:29

will keep getting stranger The forms will keep getting

37:31

stranger like every indication. It's like so it's not

37:33

been solved now It's there is a generation maybe

37:35

that will you know, learn to become more savvy

37:37

about what's out there media wise now I think

37:39

but it's not in its

37:41

final form and in what you know I think

37:44

is how it's going to evolve with AI and

37:47

then other Tools to remix

37:49

media is already seeing like it's going

37:51

to become more fluid and

37:53

so It's interesting

37:55

to me, but you know, no

37:57

no answers there. It's worth

38:00

For me the video part. I don't watch a lot

38:02

of a lot of video social media I have no

38:04

idea why but I think I know why because I

38:06

think it takes time. I think it's

38:08

the pure time Expanse

38:11

work. I'm not a big like 2.0 speed.

38:13

I should get into doing stuff like that. But like or 1.5

38:16

I don't know what 2.0 do me. No, no No

38:20

3.5 feet, but I think like text I can just

38:22

kind of scroll through fast. I read all sorts of

38:25

crap in my attempted to curate feeds but like

38:29

The video I'll tend to like want to watch parts of

38:31

shows or movies or read a book or then But

38:34

then I still have so many so like I've

38:36

not pruned apps for my phone. I have Everything

38:39

and there's no need for an apps anymore.

38:41

That is a 2010 problem I

38:46

go from one when I every time I buy a

38:48

new phone, I don't move the other phone over I

38:50

just buy the new phone and I reinstall the

38:52

app as it as it comes up And so

38:54

I just because I think I had

38:56

one at one point I had like 300 apps on one of

38:58

my phones and I was like so I went to the next

39:00

one and now I have maybe Three or four pages because it's

39:03

it pops into my head like oh I think I had an

39:05

app that did that and I find it out a little cloud

39:07

with a little download But yes, you already

39:09

you already got that but I don't I put them

39:11

on organically as I need them

39:13

as opposed to You know

39:16

leaving them on my phone. So I Would

39:18

say I gotta I gotta agree with Jason

39:20

Koebler Quite a

39:22

bit which is despite I mean I

39:25

know I voiced my concerns about China

39:27

at the outset and I think those

39:29

are separate and legitimate, but the fact

39:31

that It's politically

39:33

obviously given that there was bipartisan

39:35

support for this and that I'm

39:37

on broad bipartisan support It's

39:39

an election year. It's very popular to speak out

39:41

against China. I mean You

39:44

know one of the one of the things the Trump administration

39:46

if I if I can say a positive thing about the

39:48

Trump administration That's affected

39:50

me was they actually challenged China on

39:52

low-cost shipping from China Which costs the

39:54

US Postal Service on the order of

39:56

hundreds of millions of dollars a year

39:58

very obscure thing very popular with

40:00

me and some other people because it's

40:02

a competitive reason. It makes the US

40:04

post office less solvent because

40:07

we're subsidizing Chinese shipping. So there's a

40:09

million issues with China that various people

40:11

support and some of them completely valid

40:13

and some are xenophobic and racist and

40:16

horrible. But the idea that China is

40:18

trying to out-compete the United States because

40:20

it can't do so, let's

40:22

say legitimately in certain spheres, it does

40:24

in legitimately in others, this is just

40:26

yet another area. So it's really popular

40:28

politically to do it. It's like it's

40:30

not popular to say after years of

40:33

trying and failing to get anything done

40:35

with Facebook, Twitter, Instagram, many of the

40:37

meta companies and Google related things. There's

40:40

been no success there enforcing any

40:42

regulation that fits within First Amendment

40:44

parameters and provides some of the

40:46

safety for particularly for children but

40:48

also in a lot of other categories that

40:51

people actually want. So what's the most popular

40:53

thing to do? We attack TikTok, it's very

40:55

popular. It's one

40:58

weird trick that will get you votes from parents, I guess. It's

41:00

attacking TikTok. Well, you know you're

41:02

in trouble when Jeff Jackson, who

41:04

is the representative out of North

41:06

Carolina, who probably has the largest

41:09

TikTok following of anyone in Congress

41:11

and is by far the most

41:13

effective TikToker in Congress, when

41:15

even he votes for the bill, you're like, Oh

41:17

my God. And

41:19

then all the TikTokers, like 10,000 people stop following him

41:21

almost immediately. But

41:26

he's like, I don't think that he just wants it to be

41:29

sold. He's like, I don't want TikTok to go away,

41:31

obviously. I just want it to be not in

41:33

Chinese hands. And again, while I don't agree with

41:35

it, and I would prefer it, I think that

41:37

you let the market do what it's going to

41:39

do. I don't think that, I think we

41:41

have to, I actually think that we're building

41:44

towards a culture that doesn't trust anything, which I think

41:46

is actually pretty healthy. I think

41:48

that people, I think we should get to a point where we

41:50

need to see a couple points of reference like these

41:52

days, anytime I see something. There

41:55

was some video in the articles that we

41:57

were researching for this thing where someone said,

42:00

You know, the Chinese version only shows

42:02

educational stuff to kids under 14 and

42:04

TikTok shows this. I looked at

42:06

it and I said, that might be the case,

42:08

but I don't know because that's the only place,

42:10

the only person I've ever seen. I have seen

42:12

say that I'm going to need to see that

42:14

in three or four other places. It's not the

42:16

entire truth as people have like responded to. Yeah.

42:18

And so I was like, but I, but my

42:20

back, my immediate reaction nowadays is that, well, he

42:22

said that now I can go now research a

42:24

couple of different places to figure out whether other

42:26

people say the same thing, preferably people who don't

42:28

necessarily agree with them. Yeah. Um,

42:31

you know, on other things. And so

42:33

if I can see those contested opinions

42:36

that are going towards that, then maybe it's the

42:38

truth. But, but you know, that's the thing you

42:40

have to be careful. I want to put words

42:42

in your mouth briefly, but I want you to

42:45

know if you agree with them, which is, I

42:47

think it's, uh, it's not trust. There's not, you

42:49

don't trust anything. It's more that you want to

42:51

engage critical thinking about any source that's provided to

42:53

you. So some things can be trustworthy once they're

42:55

vetted and it's different than, you know, I'm going

42:57

to do my own research. It's like, no, I'm

42:59

going to use legitimate sources, not any source I

43:01

find to back something up. And, um, we raised

43:03

my, my wife, I raised our kids with really

43:06

almost no broadcast TV and very little TV

43:08

until they got over older, partly because they

43:10

were so fascinated by it. We thought this

43:12

is probably the wrong direction. They can make

43:14

decisions. I get older because you know, the

43:16

usual things anyway, but like when we watch

43:18

TV with them, when commercials show up, it

43:20

is the most fun because they ridicule the

43:23

commercials. They poke. If we can't fast forward,

43:25

they are the most critically critical consumers of

43:27

advertising. I'm like, all right, they

43:29

can watch as much as they want now

43:31

because their attitude is correct. The dubiousness with

43:33

which they approach information presented to them without

43:35

factual basis. And I think that there was some point because

43:38

like my kids, you know, I made them

43:40

have to get their apps approved by me. So I can

43:42

still, they're 14 and 15 years old. And

43:45

so they didn't really get any social media, you

43:47

know, apps and now they don't want them. Like

43:50

I said, do you want like all my all

43:52

their friends have Snapchat, right? And now they're like, no,

43:54

because that makes everybody super stressed like like they're like

43:56

in my daughter's like, if someone wants to talk to

43:58

me, they're going to have the text. me because that's

44:00

just messages. My team is like,

44:03

I'm not interested. My team got on Twitter after

44:05

I got off. I left in November 2022. They

44:08

got on, but just to laugh at how bad it was, like

44:10

they spent months laughing at how bad it was, then

44:12

they finally got bored with it. But I was like, all

44:15

right, again, that's the okay attitude. They're late teens. And

44:18

I think that we need to have more tools. One of

44:20

the reasons that I probably spend, of any social media reading

44:22

it, I probably spend more time, even though I don't spend as much

44:24

time as I used to on X, I probably spend

44:26

more of it. But what I think that

44:28

keeps me there is the filter. Like when I, if I

44:31

want to turn my filter off for a day, I

44:34

filter out about 170 terms. So

44:36

there's 170 terms that are in my list. I counted

44:38

them the other day. Of

44:40

all these things that don't show up in my feed, if

44:42

you say these things or they're from these people or about

44:44

these people, like Trump, I don't, I

44:47

never see anything that Trump posts. So, or didn't

44:49

for a long time. And so, but all these things

44:51

are all these things that I don't, that I don't

44:53

see, mostly because I just don't want to be activated.

44:55

I'm here to have fun. So

44:57

most of mine is filled with audio, you know, audio

45:00

engineers and, and videographers and designers and

45:02

comedians. And

45:05

I have a great, I have a great version of X

45:07

and even then I get bored with it, but my version

45:09

is way better. And I'm always like, and by the way,

45:11

if you're watching, I am not going to give you my

45:13

list because it'll make everybody upset. Cause like I built her

45:15

out things from both sides. I'm just like, I don't care.

45:18

Like I don't want to hear any politics. Like I'm, it's

45:20

not that I don't think politics are important. It's just that

45:22

I don't think that Twitter is capable of, of

45:24

delivering that effectively. You

45:27

don't have to drink the castor oil either. It's

45:29

okay. It's like, this is the whole point of

45:31

customizable media. It is so enjoyable. Like it is

45:33

so much more enjoyable. I, again, and it's gotten

45:35

kind of weird in the sense that it's not

45:37

super weird for me because I filtered most

45:39

of that out, but it's just not as, there's

45:41

just not as, it feels like there's not as

45:43

many people there anymore. Like go on a handle

45:46

that I was following, just don't post as often.

45:48

It's a bit of a ghost town. Like obviously,

45:50

are, are you still seeing ads, Alex, on Twitter?

45:52

Cause to me, that is the thing kind of

45:54

hurting the experience. Like it's Like ever after every two or

45:56

three posts at this point. So I Don't really, you know, I

45:58

scan. So

46:00

quickly. Ice okay I'm scanning so fast. I used

46:02

to like be like no no no and I

46:04

would block every person. The denim. Of.

46:06

An ad Really mad I would just block your whole

46:08

account He oh my god exists and to just try

46:11

to get rid of of as much as I could?

46:13

Of course that's like back I'm all into now when

46:15

I'm scanning through it and I have to admit because

46:17

I am. A critical mass of

46:19

followers. Not a lot of followers but announced. That.

46:22

Most of my time is spent in my notification but

46:24

I post and most of my stuff is responding to

46:26

people who responded the meats like. I don't really spend

46:28

as much time reading the raw feet as as as

46:30

I used to. it's mostly Lemay lever it an email

46:32

soldier is a sense alter to select. That's the stuff

46:34

you're paying attention to. Raise I'm here if I see

46:36

with Brentsville says up there so that's clear that then

46:38

every now and I have my Bridget like I was

46:40

cleaning before. We are couple hours before the show and

46:42

I and I found a scorpion in my in my

46:44

garage of on a while and I was like in

46:46

all I could have taken a picture I could have

46:49

been a bunch of googling but I didn't I just

46:51

took a picture of I put. It on twitter and

46:53

I said what kind of this and immediately came

46:55

back with an answer up with my kids term

46:57

better than Google or someone's a Magnum and course

46:59

and then I I I I Googled that and

47:01

of course the totally Right and so it's like.

47:04

It's. It's it's hard because I now live

47:06

in between a lot of different. Apps

47:08

is is deeply frustrating The past like Mayor

47:11

Stamps and I feel like it did as

47:13

A of my kids are not really into

47:15

social media at all and I get a

47:17

same as you said in a day didn't

47:20

die we're raising with at be kept as

47:22

and stuff away from them stirred you tube

47:24

there into the ideas mean they know that

47:26

means they can emit the rounds shared google

47:29

docs and like sound meme such as Desire

47:31

like you know there's I guess there was

47:33

a guest Sharon school list of just like

47:35

like mean things that the wrong curated for

47:38

themselves and. Talking matter laughing about. And.

47:41

Like. They do see through it and on

47:43

I just feel like I went to reach

47:46

out to the people are gonna reach out

47:48

to you know, single person a person basis

47:50

but right now it's not easy to do

47:52

that. And then there's so much that falls

47:54

off when you move from after operas. Attraction

47:56

works differently, right? signs of. I'm posting one

47:58

place on. People don't see it

48:01

or they may not react to the conversation.

48:03

minor sorry to hear it might start so

48:05

feels like a lot of to prepare low

48:07

universes and spoil yards as as as the

48:10

same group of people the trend me crazy

48:12

when the invisible one behind all this courses

48:14

discord. I'm in probably thirty discord servers and

48:16

so they're all like and they're all different

48:19

for. The. House and each one of

48:21

them has it's own set of structures in sports

48:23

or group of themselves. I saw like the one

48:25

that that office hours global which is the one

48:27

that I that I have a two thousand people

48:29

talking about things about in around media production but

48:31

then there's other ones that are just talking about

48:33

how to do better on this or how to

48:35

do you know and then there's the Twit one

48:38

which is excellent is well known. I'm on almost

48:40

as seven or eight thousand people and I'm and

48:42

so ah so between all those you end up

48:44

with that's a whole nother place that I think

48:46

a lot of people have taken refuge or with

48:48

the I you know from from. Almost yesterday was

48:50

ready. Conversations is is a problem when you're

48:52

trying to promote something. Also is I thought

48:54

to lot of craters and claire myself and

48:57

he's to you go on twitter and as

48:59

for most people were and undies Instagram you

49:01

some other different things Silence The sixers have

49:03

been see weeks ago so I'm like oh

49:05

I just is a post on announced it

49:07

on on blue skies and it is set

49:09

up a Facebook account which I canceled because

49:11

one the largest comics related Thomas' related groups

49:13

the place to reach the most people the

49:15

world. It's a Facebook group isn't available anywhere

49:18

else always to three discourse on our. Interstates

49:20

and then linked in and I'm like I have

49:22

this list of unity know fifteen places are going

49:24

to say that of the most effective one as

49:26

far as well. I'm always surprised by when I

49:28

look at stats from what we're doing and everything

49:30

else is linked in like the linked in like

49:32

someone there was somebody who post I talked about

49:34

a company and one of our shop and the

49:37

shirt and a show and company reached out me

49:39

a link to that hey that was really great

49:41

can we ah to use that can be post

49:43

that on linked then I was like down you

49:45

know like I wasn't really that good. Arguments are

49:47

you can put an been on linked him. and

49:50

he was like thousands of views that obviously came

49:52

from that that one post you know alley and

49:54

will notice began when it gets post the link

49:56

and i think that there's it's it i will

49:58

admit that i relate to linked and much differently.

50:00

Twitter is me having fun posting pictures

50:02

of scorpions. I would not post

50:04

a picture of scorpions on LinkedIn. Like

50:06

you know like because it's my professional network of

50:08

people like I'm not gonna you know or I'm

50:11

not gonna put up weird polls or funny things

50:13

that I'm just kind of curious about. I entertain

50:15

myself on X but I you know and hopefully

50:17

entertain other people every once in a while but

50:20

LinkedIn I take really seriously like I put up a post

50:22

or I like a post or I comment on a

50:24

post and I think about every single one of them. I

50:26

don't know if everybody does that but I know that but

50:28

it's very very effective. The millhouse of social networks. Like

50:30

you don't it's kind of there but all of

50:34

a sudden it matures. It has a growth spurt at some

50:36

point. It gets somewhat interesting in high school and

50:38

now this is this is LinkedIn's time to shine

50:40

everybody. I think Twitter you know the kind of

50:42

Twitter myth that you put more professional stock in

50:45

it and I feel LinkedIn also broaden where it's

50:47

not some people do use it socially or more

50:50

socially but I feel like I'm comfortable

50:52

posting my projects there as as well

50:54

as you know kind of in the

50:56

vein of active professional

50:58

achievements as opposed to before I think I didn't

51:00

post there very much all I didn't use it.

51:02

I didn't have a LinkedIn account until last year

51:05

when I started doing some you know Kickstarter

51:07

consulting. I'm like I gotta be on LinkedIn

51:09

if I'm actually talking to business people. So

51:12

yeah but it's but it's I think more lively

51:14

than I expected. It absolutely is yeah. And right

51:16

now a lot of people are picking up on

51:18

on newsletters I guess are now the thing in

51:21

LinkedIn. So the so I'm even

51:23

looking at how do I start creating like a

51:25

media you know kind of newsletter that keeps people

51:27

up to things you know up to things but

51:29

it seems like the best platform for that kind

51:31

of thing right now. You know I want to

51:33

talk more about like what has happened now with

51:35

social media and everything but let's let's hear from

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54:00

a little abandoned by twitter to be honest.

54:02

Like so I'm spreading. Myself.

54:04

Between Mess Dance for Texas and Blue Sky

54:06

for kind of all the fun pop culture

54:09

stuff's. Where. Where does everything? So for you

54:11

guys? at this point. To.

54:13

Do to get my response from Mastodon and

54:15

was gone. It depends I have some people

54:17

to now that was differ from twitter and

54:19

I mean it's with those folks in a

54:21

good is it is my get like random

54:23

people. Kind. Of joining and but it

54:25

is. There's far less engagement and. That.

54:28

It's a big downside is I remember the even the

54:30

early days of twitter lead. People. To

54:32

be jumping into conversations that was a very

54:34

lively experience and mess on is not quite

54:36

that. unfortunately. Am and I'm on.

54:38

That on has been very good to me.

54:41

I'm when in big from twitter and never

54:43

the seeds falling on twitter. I mean a

54:45

relative terms as I'd like thirty thousand people

54:48

follow me on his reign breakups. it's it

54:50

was for I was a cultivate a group

54:52

of wonderful people and I and many of

54:54

them fairly technical and artistic. We evolve and

54:57

a lot of that group went to Mastodon

54:59

so I have like thirteen thousand people follow

55:01

me there which I've sought by to the

55:03

can. The only time I interact with any

55:06

kind of audience is like unto. At least

55:08

I have a very weird set of

55:10

things I write and do and so

55:12

people. It's hard for people to find

55:14

me so I don't know I got

55:16

that audience the kind of come over

55:18

and l because I was Kennedy dumb

55:20

ass on early on I was posting

55:22

and and inducing bus mastodon. I feel

55:24

has almost the dampening field intensely like

55:26

it's designed to prevent amplification so that

55:28

things don't get over cycle under control.

55:30

We don't have the main characters today

55:32

announced on almost every easily happens like

55:34

happened to the Freely Daily on Twitter

55:36

and still does. Elsewhere blue sky as

55:38

add some main characters about the most of

55:40

all the time and with specific and it

55:43

but medical blue skies also I think I

55:45

treated experience to which is eight I originally

55:47

was kind of the i thought lot of

55:49

one of the and another networks are not

55:51

one of the i want to. Jack Dorsey

55:53

has anything to do with and and walked

55:55

away from it a bit like enough distance

55:57

himself from the developers are very cool sites.

55:59

next week. And. Who's. Guy

56:01

Very entertaining, but it's a space to number

56:03

of people I follow to follow me. There

56:05

is a much smaller audience in the algorithm

56:07

there. Even though you can kind of look

56:10

at his to discover tab and so forth,

56:12

he doesn't see as much. I

56:14

don't think there's as much feedback of outrage

56:16

they are. either the machine isn't fully functional

56:18

yes may not be com or it's a

56:20

very proud of assume that respect that will

56:22

say like and boost. I didn't have the

56:25

element of chaos they think made Twitter so

56:27

bit early early on and economy that for

56:29

the in are likely early the mid nineties

56:31

internet for me was pure chaos and I

56:33

loved it and I kind of love being

56:35

in that sort of environment so it's blue

56:38

sky has sort of capture that whereas masses

56:40

are like you know when you go the

56:42

computer lab you know and and select. A

56:45

bunch of nerds sitting there for too long

56:47

and like yeah I like talking those people

56:49

but I mean I need life steal like

56:51

any any to do something beyond that. Groups

56:54

on but golf so scout out what he

56:56

up to these days I'm split like I'm

56:58

splint all across and I'm not happy about

57:00

and he is it. You know, I think

57:02

that it's on and and agree with you

57:05

about and loving chaos. and then it's also

57:07

like we've all been traumatized by chaos. Yeah,

57:09

and then I think that there's like no

57:11

clear resolution. I and. Like. A

57:14

nail find it hard to engage with

57:16

or to create in those sounds and

57:18

so I find that it's. I

57:20

mean an uncertain zone and from falling out of

57:22

social media on and a I still feel like

57:25

I need it. So. Your. Twitter

57:27

a year. Sure, I should be out of it

57:29

and done. And I in I am. I want

57:31

to be completely out of it. and I've heard

57:33

people that I have his followers on Twitter is

57:35

far far greater than on anything else by like

57:37

a vast. Vast. Margins And it's

57:39

not a huge amount of people, but it's

57:41

like he was him surfing. Like twenty thousand

57:44

versus five hundred. And you know, for me,

57:47

The Reds. I keep throwing myself

57:49

as an done staying in it.

57:52

On. It's not

57:54

enjoyable. Desperate

57:57

When. I. Don't find

57:59

it. The and I keep going. oh

58:01

it's like music I'm trying to like. unlike

58:03

unlike high waist and gonna like this at

58:06

some point I'm supposed to. This is the

58:08

flow sizes. He was wondering how it's last.

58:10

Yes, yes I know, I don't mean any

58:12

engage man I don't know was only there

58:15

and or oh I'm doing so I don't

58:17

find it easy to even post on there

58:19

on. And. It just

58:21

feels like it launched fast in his lights. What?

58:24

What happened apps and then Blue Sky M

58:26

M S design I door the ideas of it

58:29

is some go to them much at all

58:31

as I saw the small micro. Wherever.

58:33

Following that I had no post something on my

58:35

consistent about it. They didn't seem.

58:38

And seem to find the flow that as I

58:40

lately and I don't know what it is but

58:42

I feel like you know pre must I had

58:44

the you know I understood that the. The.

58:47

Vibe or the flow of wife my indeed

58:49

with with with twitter was supposed to be

58:51

and I found this. Slow. That

58:53

the just don't like whatever it is. it

58:55

is what it is and I'm just not

58:58

signing. I'm grabbing that slow of anything right

59:00

now. It all feels like music. That's all

59:02

I'd have. rhythm. Everything's all weird that a

59:04

beat. And it goes at me and

59:06

I got an old and nights in a what

59:08

what is it through what's happening here spice like

59:11

and same thing with six our guide. I'll be

59:13

like okay look on the other rooms gray you

59:15

gotta kind of seated a big, get a kind

59:17

of do stuff with it and go on there

59:19

and it does feel like all fire hose and

59:22

all awesome make some absurdist, you know a brief

59:24

tic toc that you know maybe a few people

59:26

seats and then I go okay well that was

59:28

a thanks tipping a facebook like I'd Such a

59:31

tough relationship. A safe but. For. A

59:33

long time. For. I said okay I get it

59:35

is by old friends of my old ill tentacles of all

59:37

the. People. From the vast and

59:39

I didn't know what I saw, news stories

59:41

were definitely being repelled from them or nobody

59:43

saw them are No, the cemetery says they're

59:45

bring up like pictures of oatmeal that I

59:47

was having with different spices in my own

59:49

meals and still seem to like fab. It's

59:51

literally was like it does Anyone here this

59:53

is is is it. Here's an idea of

59:55

my trolling my own families on. And

59:58

then I just. The highway

1:00:00

Now I just feel like it's a it's

1:00:02

a random flail around. Just go Me this

1:00:04

is go back to reading a book in

1:00:06

a major issue just like right a place

1:00:08

and I don't. I have a real like

1:00:10

existential crisis about all the right now and

1:00:12

or and I I don't know how to.

1:00:15

Deal with that. It makes me

1:00:17

feel very. On it's

1:00:19

resumes, it's over at a Touch On

1:00:21

and I'll fall back to. My easiest

1:00:23

flow is unfortunately Twitter as while ago.

1:00:26

Now you know, Ago that has my

1:00:28

arm like announces Anglican has my. There

1:00:30

sir season the Vr Air Landscape. More

1:00:33

following, You know, sports stuff. Algo

1:00:35

Okay, what's his deteriorated? Flow works.

1:00:37

I'm trying to make tax rate

1:00:39

of flow work. On.

1:00:42

Threads and it's nice. And.

1:00:44

Around gain too Much like weird. Character.

1:00:46

Of the day south as you say on

1:00:49

what's is my services weren't shirts with says

1:00:51

he drives you to social media is I

1:00:53

felt like different things at different times. Some

1:00:55

of it's marketing for me for project I'm

1:00:57

working on but a lot of it during

1:00:59

the pandemic to at the height of the

1:01:01

pandemic it was I want to place where

1:01:04

your hangouts and the mouse with my lovely

1:01:06

family who I love for we'll settle on

1:01:08

somebody each other and then the post sort

1:01:10

of lump of the pandemic is people are

1:01:12

still I mean I don't know where all

1:01:14

four or five of us working from home.

1:01:16

I work from home amp. I am for

1:01:18

feminists. The idea so is like. Out

1:01:21

of the so it's is do we

1:01:23

still have that thing? We're trying to

1:01:25

find a thing that replaces with on

1:01:27

a second place. We lost our second

1:01:29

place and our third place is hard

1:01:31

to find because everyone can have moved

1:01:33

around to so I only ever third

1:01:35

place and I did have a freelancer.

1:01:37

It's sort of like a baby's movie.

1:01:39

The community center was bought and turned

1:01:41

set on fire by the bill and

1:01:43

on our roads like out Well somebody

1:01:45

was supposed to save this but turns

1:01:47

out like a never showed up. For

1:01:50

and I and. I think that for for me I

1:01:52

guess twitter still kind of an automatic just because

1:01:55

again like when Scott was a my following their

1:01:57

as much larger than other places in some i

1:01:59

wanna interactive. And but it can be something

1:02:01

like I'll ask people a question like what about

1:02:03

this cause I'm interested in what they think is

1:02:05

kind of interested in what the you know but

1:02:07

temperature of the people that see my post area

1:02:10

I'm not doing scientific or I find out what

1:02:12

kind of scorpion it was in my garage on

1:02:14

read those are the kind of things that I'm

1:02:16

that I you know and so fast like it's

1:02:18

so much easier than even chance you could see

1:02:20

that our and up does tend to be d

1:02:22

on the speed you know of of image recognition

1:02:24

and I think for me you know I'm. When.

1:02:27

Covered started. of course I started this thing called office

1:02:29

hours where I I hang out with people two hours

1:02:32

a day talking about media production and so for me

1:02:34

that kind of feel that includes still doing it. We

1:02:36

haven't missed a day and almost four years land by

1:02:38

the way now and it's. It's. Really? It's.

1:02:41

Absurd. I wouldn't recommend it to do it every

1:02:43

day seven days a week for four years. I

1:02:45

don't recommend of the on like that's we just

1:02:47

like covered wouldn't last a long and then once

1:02:50

we had begun through two years of a we're

1:02:52

like them as keep going and so on and

1:02:54

so the I am. But for me that the

1:02:56

U S it takes is to do the show.

1:02:58

It takes fifteen or twenty people so there's as

1:03:00

people all your that you see everyday and then

1:03:02

the discord that we have then has two thousand

1:03:05

people and they're all talking about those things and

1:03:07

what happens with discord or thought were all your.

1:03:09

Direct. Communication is with everybody. Tipsy are. Chatting

1:03:13

with socks and everything else. And so while

1:03:15

I work at home, I feel connected to

1:03:17

a pretty large com o' audience. And then

1:03:19

there's the twin. the twin discord as well

1:03:21

as a whole his people. The kind of

1:03:23

connected to talking about it's I don't feel

1:03:25

like I don't lean on a lot of

1:03:27

us are some. I will admit, the discord

1:03:29

has been a really powerful tool where I

1:03:31

feel connected to a lot of different vertical

1:03:33

communities in production and so on so forth.

1:03:35

where I'd. Those. Are the

1:03:37

things that I would have done on social media? Add.

1:03:40

Five. Years ago and now you know when

1:03:42

Five Discord server solved. That's from quick since

1:03:44

in fact on Sundays I have to go

1:03:46

through and say read read read read read

1:03:49

read read because just is. there's so much

1:03:51

data there that I can imagine what it

1:03:53

feels like. The best cord We are re

1:03:55

re basically reinventing Irish Sea. except with with

1:03:58

her it's media you know, The

1:04:00

legionnaires moving on the out of like use

1:04:02

that where everything is an all.has or failure

1:04:04

of came up with as he has the

1:04:06

has been journey and stuff to oh my

1:04:08

god it's snowing like ever since I was

1:04:10

disappointed by you'll see me typing Dylan Moink

1:04:12

I'm going to status in and to be

1:04:14

pretty com that was you know it like

1:04:16

like over to see what this looks like

1:04:19

some it's a the discoursing his instincts oh

1:04:21

yes and very successful That's it All the

1:04:23

different fandom is impressive stuff on of all

1:04:25

the night I suppose the and sixteen discourse

1:04:27

and in the real because I don't are

1:04:29

you'd have. To. Be little homes, offices, court baby.

1:04:31

it's most if I couldn't if I wasn't

1:04:33

a forceful and I'd have to not make

1:04:35

a living the on the streets going to

1:04:38

have a similar i'm a disinterested nigga on

1:04:40

my can learn about server last month i

1:04:42

know announcement of we all. I

1:04:44

can't deal with managing. I can feel the island

1:04:46

of ghosting out of South As I say, I'd

1:04:48

end up getting too much commitments anything like active

1:04:50

if I communities carefully. They know I can spend

1:04:53

time with. but I do feel like salon time

1:04:55

A social media I'm trying to s almost have

1:04:57

a conversation with with are you know with a

1:04:59

Room of ghosts? are you know it's like I'm

1:05:01

trying to like start a conversation ends. I guess

1:05:03

I should just be posting what I'm writing on

1:05:06

and I do that alive. But then you know

1:05:08

I'm sending little ships out into the ocean safe

1:05:10

by. It's like yeah through friends. As like a

1:05:12

class example, I was like it's. You know

1:05:14

I I I literally wrote her Want

1:05:16

to have a loved? Our conversations on

1:05:18

here Light on. The limo.

1:05:21

Does anyone else read books on? This

1:05:23

is in reading a book on the

1:05:25

Lebeau which is like in okay becomes

1:05:28

and testing to me nervous paths. Snow

1:05:30

snow like. There is less side dead silence

1:05:32

to that one which is fine but it

1:05:34

is dinner. The general feeling I have when

1:05:37

you know I have an obscure thought or

1:05:39

something. It's in my head and I got

1:05:41

a one to see where that echoes out

1:05:43

there. and I know cynicism cord yeah that's

1:05:45

that's a sense to them. They are dismissed

1:05:47

and and then on. I.

1:05:49

Think that that's just the feeling. I still

1:05:51

like a person mumbling on a bench in

1:05:53

Op's I feel like I'm I feel like

1:05:55

social media Now is just me. Kind of

1:05:58

like mumbling on a bench somewheres. and. I'll

1:06:00

go all. it's nothing that doesn't make me feel good.

1:06:03

It. Doesn't make me feel great. And. I

1:06:05

don't feel like and or the conversations

1:06:07

are so right. Lean on like texting

1:06:09

my my good friends to chat about.

1:06:11

this was on. I would do something

1:06:13

else to say. This nest of secret

1:06:15

a mess and of other ways to

1:06:17

follow Lisa Mountains that retired Apple engineer

1:06:19

and leases a superconductor else a super

1:06:21

retreat. Earth's So if you know Lisa

1:06:23

and he followed Lisa and of Lisa

1:06:25

minutes as far as you utterly suffer

1:06:28

of a few years than as he's

1:06:30

constantly seems like the superconductor Mastodon so

1:06:32

there is there is unobtainium and that

1:06:34

is so. At us as his secret

1:06:36

is she knows everybody everybody loves her

1:06:38

and a recent and the answer that

1:06:40

he realized parental with a lot abuse

1:06:42

like a people with a month with

1:06:44

a lot of followers and their their

1:06:46

life and twitter you is completely different

1:06:48

than ours like you really like everyone

1:06:50

from the slums cause like I needed

1:06:52

and adjusting as a rec yds scene

1:06:54

and and every once in awhile show.

1:06:56

Comment. On something that I did or or

1:06:59

or on or so between seventeen and is

1:07:01

like blink your statistics it's like this this

1:07:03

this this and then there's this giant spade

1:07:05

that was just one of some random thing

1:07:07

that she said oh I like that or

1:07:09

whatever it's own your body was a busy

1:07:11

was focused on. you know Adidas Realize that

1:07:13

there's an entirely different world out there that

1:07:15

is not not the one the warehouse differently

1:07:17

from us in. I like like to see

1:07:19

minus list or whatever it is and it's

1:07:21

like I could easily see meet somebody in

1:07:23

the a list and or be plus list

1:07:26

or you're like oh. That's what it's like

1:07:28

and and I have and I like the fact

1:07:30

that I think that and then I'm ah you

1:07:32

know I'm I'm not very organized about twitter. Twitter

1:07:34

is literally you know, because I was there very

1:07:37

early on and I don't take very seriously and

1:07:39

I just posts things that I find fascinating or

1:07:41

interesting or thing that I think people should see

1:07:43

and there's not really any plan republican I think

1:07:46

that I mean as I think that it's so

1:07:48

I think for me it works out. I am

1:07:50

never going to get used to st acts but

1:07:52

but I but as but it's It's kind of

1:07:55

like this kind of fun little toy that. I

1:07:57

have that I can play with that. I just did it and

1:07:59

again. I. Love the people that I'm

1:08:01

connected to and Twitter. I think that's the hard part

1:08:03

is that even though I'm on Dutton, don't necessarily agree

1:08:05

with Eric, the direction that it's gone, or Howard's and

1:08:07

will Once done, I'm kind of like I don't know

1:08:09

by can give that up with with they spoke I

1:08:12

just have to go once a month or two once

1:08:14

every two months and I gotta go figure. hey man,

1:08:16

sorry I didn't respond. the are like they're like forty

1:08:18

messages and I'm like I'm really sorry I don't spend

1:08:20

much time here, but I hi, I'm going up. I'll

1:08:22

dance again in a month, you know? So and so

1:08:24

that's the only death. As my biggest

1:08:26

I'm stressed when ideal social media to is

1:08:29

the idea exactly like I'm I'm kind of

1:08:31

just being myself wherever I am and then

1:08:33

I'm and on how muscle plants But then

1:08:35

I think well if you have plans and

1:08:37

you know you can develop this mission It

1:08:39

makes me feel like I'm turning into in

1:08:42

the scene and then you know the mission

1:08:44

as occasion of social media in your identity

1:08:46

is very unsettling to me and I see

1:08:48

it happen over and over again where it's

1:08:50

like you know building your brand and ever

1:08:53

this over and over again where you you

1:08:55

want to narrow caster focus or do with

1:08:57

people find interesting A with they're getting it.

1:08:59

Each man on earth statute seem to create

1:09:01

good engagements, laughs he else then I feel

1:09:03

like you just become this an increasingly amplified

1:09:06

narrow slice of your senses and I'm like

1:09:08

I'm always trying to battle that's and as

1:09:10

a result guy probably in the mumbling person

1:09:12

on the bench know where it's like you

1:09:14

know as as a obe you're not, you're

1:09:16

not being enough and in any one particular

1:09:19

thing I. I. Know now I can minimize

1:09:21

point of and i so far down I think that for

1:09:23

me it is is definitely like I do what I love

1:09:25

to do and I hope by the people will show up

1:09:27

and see it. there's I think that there's two different things.

1:09:29

Can we talk a lot about this with influencers of. Constantly.

1:09:33

Trying to figure out how to build your audience Like

1:09:35

Halloween. Yet another hundred thousand viewers are? how do we

1:09:37

get? You know what? What Viewers You know? How long

1:09:39

should they be watching on time? I? I still am.

1:09:42

I. Pay a lot of attention. To

1:09:44

my very very small youtube statistics like I just I

1:09:46

hate you know, like I look at at night I

1:09:48

look as we do live every day right? So I'm

1:09:50

looking at the live feed Him Alive perv and how

1:09:53

many people laughed and illegal state and and mostly out

1:09:55

of just learning what to pay attention to and what

1:09:57

not to pay attention to. But I have I think

1:09:59

there. The schools of thought one is.

1:10:02

Is. To expand your reach so that you build

1:10:04

up and as large number of subscribers so that

1:10:06

the ball listen to your. The other side of

1:10:08

that is. To. Expand how

1:10:10

you find the people who are interested in his

1:10:13

little niche that you're interested in and I think

1:10:15

that that's a much more sane way to do

1:10:17

this. It takes it's all lot more work because

1:10:19

you're now trying to pull up every you know,

1:10:21

like makes and other people know that you exist

1:10:24

on but it's But I've decided that I'd much

1:10:26

rather have a be. I'm trying to find more

1:10:28

people that one of weird thing that I'm doing

1:10:30

and not trying to from the widest audience that

1:10:33

I can find because I feel like I just

1:10:35

wouldn't. I just end up making something I don't

1:10:37

enjoy doing. and yeah I caught him. The dream.

1:10:39

Is always to be doing things that you love, you

1:10:41

know making content than your love to make which is

1:10:43

like like Mack Break or or the thing I do

1:10:46

every morning with office hours or twits in a when

1:10:48

when someone buys me onto the show much. Like

1:10:53

that because I'm. Now I'm Alex It

1:10:55

feels like you're trying to apply to Twitter like

1:10:57

what you are applied easy. What used to do

1:10:59

on Twitter right? It's just like do with one

1:11:01

didn't have to set yourself out there. It's I'll

1:11:03

say that that guy that was my thing about

1:11:05

Twitter to you and I think that's what was

1:11:07

most enjoyable to it. I I joined in like

1:11:09

two thousand and eight and else he was helpful

1:11:11

to talk to new people media when I was

1:11:13

in Clay immediate and to make friends. and when

1:11:15

I was a New York like that's how I

1:11:17

met a lot of people who was super useful

1:11:19

and to what you're saying. Scott it does feel

1:11:21

like a lot of i'm A, some other social

1:11:23

networks have disliked devolved. To very specific use cases.

1:11:25

Like my thing about threads is it feels

1:11:27

like such a cloud chasing engine like that's

1:11:29

what it feels like to me. For the

1:11:31

people who are always about building their brands

1:11:34

in feels like that was the only conclusion.

1:11:36

You know Zuckerberg in the face The people

1:11:38

took from Twitter is like oh this is

1:11:40

about brand building a bit about getting your

1:11:42

name out there. it's engagement, likes, retreats, whatever.

1:11:44

it's about manufacturing as much as as possible

1:11:46

and that's what does as really stick with

1:11:48

Threads for me so it feels sort official

1:11:50

I guess is the word. Yeah,

1:11:53

and I liked I liked. I take that

1:11:55

approach to flights and picking you know over

1:11:57

time just as like. A group that.

1:12:00

Whatever it is that my feet starts to

1:12:02

sell stuff that begins to. Feel.

1:12:04

Like it's. Sitting.

1:12:06

In to that. Idea Zone or

1:12:08

it. I keep improving one thing or

1:12:10

adding one thing and and that's like

1:12:12

a very painstaking, slows natural process and

1:12:14

then it's like I'm gonna have to

1:12:16

live in Mask and On for like

1:12:18

seven years to laugh. Make that happen

1:12:21

realistically is no I'm going to be

1:12:23

able to salary that process is and

1:12:25

so you know basis gotta do is

1:12:27

all over again in my ceiling as

1:12:29

I well shit like warm and I'm

1:12:31

like what's what am I gonna do

1:12:33

now. There's. No way they were

1:12:35

not person based like I tunnel vision of a

1:12:37

decentralized in i want us. I want to be

1:12:39

able to just. Have a cloud

1:12:41

of people that I know and just

1:12:43

kind of follow around. sometimes. I guess

1:12:45

imported, sometimes it doesn't. Send. Is it

1:12:47

still doesn't feel the same? You know than a

1:12:50

fight or you have People were posting their and

1:12:52

so I don't know and then I wonder savvy

1:12:54

different people in different places and to complain if

1:12:56

I don't recall or salaries? I'm easy and yeah

1:12:59

yeah I'll be off the old man over here

1:13:01

and I'll be like still do this I didn't

1:13:03

encourage as a sort of psychosis. But.

1:13:05

I think that the but I do you think I

1:13:08

got your twitter I'm are much more are. Fun!

1:13:11

Loving so to speak on linked in I definitely

1:13:13

am sick. More serious is still same. The same

1:13:15

person is is is that we wanted things I

1:13:17

I post on twitter. The amount of post on

1:13:19

like there's two hours and you in a t

1:13:21

shirt and linked in his youth. bread pudding and

1:13:23

sport. go over that teacher. But

1:13:26

I although my but as boards code on

1:13:29

it but I but a polo shirt maybe

1:13:31

at least I only something with buttons not

1:13:33

have your slogan for oatmeal. man it's It's

1:13:35

a grueling job. Charge

1:13:39

club at live at some of these right.

1:13:41

The bugs and and the artist social media

1:13:43

engagement like us what we be right that

1:13:46

we just need to like figure it out

1:13:48

and them at out com ourselves. I will

1:13:50

say though I will never forgive you lama

1:13:52

for destroying Twitter So I was that about

1:13:54

out there are intended destroying the internet as

1:13:56

I view it and I'm not bitter not

1:13:58

at all but looks store. A

1:14:01

few months Spacex is building a

1:14:03

spy satellite network for you intelligence

1:14:05

agencies. Raiders had this exclusive yesterday

1:14:07

I saw this these come out

1:14:09

and for so I wasn't to

1:14:11

surprise but I too wonder what

1:14:13

is the government thinking now that

1:14:15

I'm seeing where Ilan has gone

1:14:17

after post twitter and the now

1:14:19

where he is on his some

1:14:21

other know that sort of like

1:14:23

anti semitic white supremacy spent the

1:14:25

other held a very mild and

1:14:27

others signer and seeming interest in

1:14:29

Russia and. I don't know why

1:14:31

that would be a national secure and as

1:14:33

he says this alleged uses drugs that violate

1:14:35

many of the rules required to operate certain

1:14:37

kinds of government contracts. He was not proven.

1:14:40

I think it's been denied. Officially, it's but

1:14:42

it is allegedly many. For his blog reporting

1:14:44

on it's so great. Yeah we we are.

1:14:46

The island seems like the wrong and they

1:14:48

to invest in except he may have the

1:14:50

equipment that the government needs right now. Just.

1:14:53

Sit to Swathes hard thing to figure out

1:14:55

Like I mean there's a lot of or

1:14:57

even when he's doing is hard by that's

1:14:59

what that's what he's gotten good at is

1:15:01

doing hard things and actually having them come

1:15:03

out the other end and that's an unusual

1:15:06

ability because it's not and Nine Advancements put

1:15:08

him in this place. is that? Yeah, Boeing

1:15:10

is obviously proofs that is hard. You know,

1:15:12

Like you know the hard thing for the

1:15:14

to get things into space and have them

1:15:16

word and so I think that the the

1:15:18

satellite you know obviously I'm Starlink has been

1:15:20

approved the a good proving model for that's

1:15:22

a good test. Model The The thing that's

1:15:24

important as is this. Very. Large

1:15:27

array of satellites is

1:15:29

much more are. Resistant.

1:15:31

To In A we are in a point

1:15:33

where you take out a couple satellites in

1:15:35

the United States and suddenly we lose all

1:15:38

communication like everyone does. Not really fast and

1:15:40

so am. So I think that that there

1:15:42

is this concern that we've built up these

1:15:44

hundred million, Two hundred fifty million One billion

1:15:46

dollar satellites that are up there that are

1:15:48

a handful of them and if they go

1:15:51

down everything goes down. Where have you have

1:15:53

twelve thousand satellites Are fifty thousand satellites up?

1:15:55

There is a much different thing apart from

1:15:57

the upset upset the sky. The for astronomer

1:15:59

not oh no, you just get a buffer

1:16:01

overflow error and it goes to every satellite

1:16:04

and community service networking and they're all down

1:16:06

also. Maybe Maybe no. I think that there's

1:16:08

a there's a lotta I mean that's possible.

1:16:10

Absolutely I'm but I think that I but

1:16:12

it's it's it's harder to do that. I

1:16:14

will argue that it is to shoot them

1:16:17

down like you know and and now oh

1:16:19

it's yeah. absolutely. And we should not assume

1:16:21

that all the countries all the major countries

1:16:23

already have satellites up there that are armed

1:16:25

and ready to shoot the other ones down.

1:16:27

I mean that would be we should not.

1:16:30

Assume that doesn't already exist. So so by

1:16:32

there's but in the ability to have a

1:16:34

large number of satellites up there does make

1:16:36

a difference. and at the problem is is

1:16:38

not a lot of other people. Amazon's do

1:16:40

a bunch. I think that there's. There's.

1:16:43

Not a lot of other options I guess is

1:16:45

what I would say for that and it is

1:16:47

a very needed technology and so and that's we've

1:16:49

we've gone to the our country who have used

1:16:51

in and see I was a. Big

1:16:54

benefactor. In. There was a long

1:16:56

time where and and see if if you are

1:16:58

have you had ass and see I satellite access

1:17:00

in Africa you suddenly lost. Ah,

1:17:02

suddenly lost connections are your kind to but he

1:17:05

went down. You knew that. Ah,

1:17:07

After com was active see some of

1:17:09

the don't So for that month ago

1:17:11

brothers that lights is those are the

1:17:14

Adam is earlier so that your M

1:17:16

C I built the entire infrastructure based

1:17:18

on supporting the military so the So

1:17:20

the Am. So I think that we

1:17:23

ah as those are ah I'm. Ah

1:17:26

I think that I think we just have

1:17:28

to know that they're get. We're going to

1:17:30

have these partial and see and pick some

1:17:32

someone going to be commercial and he's been

1:17:34

the most. The psyche of of the My.on

1:17:36

is getting it be getting it out satellites

1:17:38

up there. Starlink is a thing that exists.

1:17:40

I think them efforts while my get the

1:17:42

full context here reading I'm gonna read from

1:17:44

the reader's piece the network is being built

1:17:46

by it's Spacex is Sarsfield business unit under

1:17:48

one plant billion dollar contracts signed in Twenty

1:17:50

Twenty One with the National Reconnaissance Office the

1:17:52

anaerobes be intelligence agency them as a spy

1:17:55

satellites and I think the idea. Is.

1:17:57

That it's it's can be a global

1:17:59

global array. The A satellite seconds

1:18:01

with high quality imagery or with

1:18:03

high quality sensors can see anybody

1:18:05

and track anybody anywhere on the

1:18:07

planet and higher detailed resolution than

1:18:09

we've ever had before. So yeah,

1:18:11

I can imagine us government wants

1:18:13

that. My worry is after we

1:18:15

saw what happened with Starling come

1:18:18

early on in the Ukraine and

1:18:20

Russia were. right? Where it's Elon

1:18:22

Musk himself. Kind of like enabling and disabling

1:18:24

access because I'm you know. all of a

1:18:26

sudden he was called in to help because

1:18:28

he's the man's hard to this. I'm are

1:18:30

worried about him and the tech because he's

1:18:33

not the guy person responsible for developing the

1:18:35

stack right. He has been very good at

1:18:37

hirings and taking over companies that have been

1:18:39

developed by other people but also hiring smart

1:18:41

people to build his his big dreams. So.

1:18:44

You. Know that's my agree. I think the issue

1:18:46

is though is that is one thing for him

1:18:48

to you know the Starlink. I've

1:18:50

made in a huge difference at the beginning

1:18:53

of the Ukraine war from ear to ear,

1:18:55

empowering Ukraine to base of basically be able

1:18:57

to operate you know, and be able to

1:18:59

have them move forward and I think that

1:19:01

it put him in a pretty complicated position.

1:19:03

I'm not a big fan of. I'm

1:19:05

not saying, but it's but put him in

1:19:08

a very complicated position of supporting. You know,

1:19:10

getting into I'm a war that is not

1:19:12

what Starlink was necessarily designed to do. and

1:19:14

by the way, the government not paid him

1:19:16

to do that either. So so that you

1:19:18

know all the costs are all city on

1:19:21

his shoulders for something that that that doesn't.

1:19:24

That it wasn't what he planned to do

1:19:26

with these. I think that there's that's on

1:19:28

one side I didn't even have for the

1:19:30

resources. Nights I think

1:19:32

they're going around him at circuit when I

1:19:34

recall as well. but it's the lack of

1:19:37

transparency. He acts like a government a while

1:19:39

Issue here is lack of transparency on his

1:19:41

decision making and actions that are affecting see

1:19:43

a political issue seven. I think that that

1:19:45

there's a difference between him. That.

1:19:47

Affect the know that how a commercial

1:19:50

system is being used in a military

1:19:52

application to pulling the rug out of

1:19:54

the United States Defense Department like or

1:19:56

or the and around that is like.

1:19:58

Kisses him doing that. or. Pretty.

1:20:00

Low for keep up with you know because I

1:20:03

have no matter the other mass him at this

1:20:05

point it so maybe at a but I'm to

1:20:07

say that that removed from a statistical perspectives that

1:20:09

is the end of all the things like you

1:20:11

know like if you did that to the United

1:20:14

States government serious specially to the Nrl. They're.

1:20:16

Not going to have any sense of humor about that.

1:20:18

You know, like you know and and it's and it's

1:20:20

own. Like there's a gray area when you're doing it

1:20:22

inside of Ukraine where there's a mix, the support for

1:20:24

that and everything else is up and down on. But

1:20:26

there's a whole nother thing about like building a contract

1:20:29

for the United States governs. When I think that those

1:20:31

are very different, I don't think that they. They.

1:20:33

Live in the same world. As far

1:20:35

as what the when. The gun

1:20:37

he would actually do because I was eager a

1:20:39

man. But I mean we're also looking at our

1:20:41

this man engaging with white supremacists like several times

1:20:44

in the past few days into Flag and we're

1:20:46

talking about busy that seamers honey me going off

1:20:48

in the United States The Nine States Intelligence Agency

1:20:50

is the end of all of your company's I

1:20:52

guess that would be like the government would come

1:20:54

down so hard on him. that would be the

1:20:57

end of whatever he is doing like it would

1:20:59

be in he couldn't get into a contract with

1:21:01

the Nrl and then renege on and in any

1:21:03

way shape or form. I'm if if is lucky

1:21:05

to get out of the country. Something simple

1:21:07

by you know that sounds like that's one of

1:21:09

those things where I got into a car accident.

1:21:11

How about that You know I can. So so

1:21:14

that Bellingham are no sense of humor about been

1:21:16

turned over like that so I did something I'd

1:21:18

it's I just think that there's he does a

1:21:20

lot of crazy stuff but I don't think that's

1:21:22

one of the ones that would fit into what

1:21:24

eaten where he would go because that that is

1:21:26

a and even he would understand. I don't think

1:21:28

I'm your sister was own. Trust him with their

1:21:30

social security so that's separate from what would he

1:21:32

do. I simply don't trust and with it period.

1:21:34

I don't think we should be getting money on

1:21:36

stems from based. On his accents, most of these

1:21:38

not networks are based on not having trust

1:21:40

with other people like the most. The way

1:21:42

the network interacts with the other the weather

1:21:44

satellites are and interact with each other is

1:21:46

not based on trust and that's how than

1:21:48

other or money's going his company. that's all

1:21:51

point in his regardless regardless and in fundamentally

1:21:53

do you engage with people who don't act

1:21:55

in good faith and don't act in the

1:21:57

best interests of the countries providing the money.

1:21:59

But Mrs. Islam. Ty and of voters

1:22:01

who else to go to stir the only

1:22:03

boy your because Boeing mismanagement. It all comes

1:22:05

back to my plugs falling out of wind

1:22:07

or winter hugs falling out is a Boeing

1:22:09

had him and mismanaged little as twenty five

1:22:11

years in ways that of were obvious that

1:22:13

boy might be a viable player to provide

1:22:16

the service it is gonna see witnesses suspiciously

1:22:18

dying to things that we didn't fall onto

1:22:20

the window though better we're me. Feel bad

1:22:22

for the guy. You read the reports and

1:22:24

it's like there's a lot of things that

1:22:26

are dubious been on for this do a

1:22:28

Vince Foster situation but it's also. I just

1:22:30

feel bad for the guy because he was trying

1:22:32

to Its ray and maybe experience of it is

1:22:34

this is the narrative that is out there see

1:22:37

believe he just experience so much pressure he couldn't

1:22:39

continue which is very very sad for what he

1:22:41

was I do to improve safety of other people

1:22:43

and for the for the Spacex sorry by the

1:22:45

way like I'm just wondering like I'm not. Admitted

1:22:48

he would not be dumb enough to do

1:22:50

something like overtly screwing over the Us government

1:22:52

Better if it's like hey I'm maybe when

1:22:54

we're covering this particular squadron of Russia or

1:22:57

something to slip. it's a little less clear

1:22:59

on me or my know, like I don't

1:23:01

think A and once they hand off as

1:23:03

network to the United States government but he's

1:23:05

not gonna know what's happening as a seat

1:23:07

records as videos very serious slide in a

1:23:10

video that repeats it It sounds like an

1:23:12

ordinary hillside for the security camera says a

1:23:14

sly that enough for the satellite. this was

1:23:16

a that part of us. Yeah it's

1:23:18

I'm I agree with it's not it's the

1:23:21

a lot of us securities go into that

1:23:23

process of their control over there putting at

1:23:25

the birds into the sky but the control

1:23:27

of those birds once there there's is gonna

1:23:29

be pretty limited of of what they know

1:23:31

what what information would have would go out

1:23:34

from the a lot saw but submit some

1:23:36

of the else who went into business with

1:23:38

the all a Muslim that is Mister Don

1:23:40

Lemon from Cnn the all man recently that

1:23:42

I his his his contract with Twitter to

1:23:44

promote a So on Twitter service has been

1:23:47

cancelled. After. One really test

1:23:49

the interview with reliably.in the

1:23:51

reason for crazy for Evil

1:23:53

Amazing Amazing. Incredible.

1:23:56

I mean so so what happened here was a

1:23:58

dumb I'm and was fired from Cnn for. I

1:24:00

believe it was comments against Nikki Haley just like

1:24:02

his his like really in there is he is

1:24:04

t meet some really terrible comments about her not

1:24:06

being a woman in her prime and the yeah

1:24:09

he was out after that but they're also reports

1:24:11

he was just not great his colleagues and knots

1:24:13

fairly not like back great in the morning so

1:24:15

that they put him in a minute or frankie

1:24:17

position where he I mean I'm not defending him

1:24:20

but it's also speed. They did not take advantage

1:24:22

of what he was famous for and what he

1:24:24

uttering else and that he did not behave be

1:24:26

hit well as a reason I want to be

1:24:28

a good morning Cnn essentially So yeah they did

1:24:31

not work out so well for him but yeah

1:24:33

so he entered a relationship with the Elon Musk

1:24:35

who was trying to. I guess as a he

1:24:37

twitter is a place for all sorts of political

1:24:39

background right? We have technical sense but we also

1:24:42

have a guy from Cnn so therefore were and

1:24:44

buys unfair arm one interview and Tom I in

1:24:46

is not even that much of a tough interviewer

1:24:48

like I don't else well I bouncing clubs here

1:24:50

but. Apparently after one is there

1:24:53

were some questions where he was directly asking

1:24:55

you on about his i guess his own

1:24:57

life and you wanted knowledge help her small

1:24:59

and how basically how that are excellent by

1:25:01

what do you think Alex I think that

1:25:03

I think that Don Lemon and I think

1:25:05

felt like he's the show that he wasn't

1:25:07

Elon musk science. He's in a position of

1:25:09

i'm starting this but I'm not. I'm not

1:25:11

just following what you on tells me, am

1:25:13

and shows and I'm willing to put in

1:25:15

a pub with the brass knuckles on and

1:25:17

and as the hard questions and do all

1:25:19

the things to prove himself so he could

1:25:21

separate. Himself from Ilan must say I'm honest

1:25:23

and platform but I'm still going to be

1:25:25

independence of course he he hit a lot

1:25:27

harder than than he neat probably to to

1:25:29

and went much more personal. I don't think

1:25:31

it's the politics that bothered Elon Musk. I

1:25:33

think it was the personal questions about and

1:25:35

on mosque and I think that you know

1:25:37

I think get embarrassed m I think it

1:25:39

made him up sad and I think that

1:25:41

you know that's probably again be he might

1:25:43

have over and in london might have he

1:25:45

made done this on purpose like I'm just

1:25:48

gonna see how far this will go like

1:25:50

I don't have is going to go. Anywhere after

1:25:52

on is going to see how far this goes and maybe

1:25:54

I'll get some depress out of anyways. I might ninety me

1:25:56

I got the missile interviews on us or the full kind

1:25:58

of user reports of him asking. Drug use and

1:26:01

asking about all those other things. I

1:26:03

mean I think that that he could

1:26:05

have, he could have started a little

1:26:07

my really dealing with politics and policy

1:26:09

as opposed to going into you know,

1:26:12

going after personal issues and higher than.

1:26:14

That stuff may be related. Like the guy in

1:26:17

charge, the second richest man the world. And they're

1:26:19

all the stories about him. Eat, we eat dominance.

1:26:21

I'll be poster boy for his supposed is like

1:26:23

in else, Twitter is a more politically acceptable place

1:26:26

for all sorts of people. It doesn't seem that

1:26:28

unfair to me to speak, as all the stories

1:26:30

are out there. You have the guy in front

1:26:32

of the whereas I don't think you're right wing

1:26:35

pellet politicians. Tucker Carlson would not be asking any

1:26:37

of those kind of questions because. The.

1:26:39

He's they're going to softball everything sales to me.

1:26:41

I guess that's where the politics comes into his

1:26:43

dominance. Actually asking questions that he has ever answered

1:26:45

before and the basic function of journalism sale that

1:26:47

to me seems like a useful thing. Like I

1:26:49

I don't think that's going too far. It seems

1:26:51

like that's his legacy was going too far. I'm

1:26:53

just saying. I'm just saying that that are unknown

1:26:56

says he went too far. I'm saying that he

1:26:58

just that's what got him. I think that if

1:27:00

he had our effort you on I guess. Yeah

1:27:02

I think if he wanted to get a lot

1:27:04

of press which is done well that was a

1:27:06

great way to do it. If he wanted actually

1:27:08

build a platform on Twitter probably wasn't. The right

1:27:10

way to do that and I as you

1:27:12

are in advance. Anything though, there are no

1:27:14

rules young. That's

1:27:16

counseling Tulu. That's exactly the absolute

1:27:19

must was. Was I

1:27:21

was sickly was true is that everything

1:27:23

goes so you know there's a big

1:27:25

believer in really know the I I

1:27:27

think I would it. Again,

1:27:29

If if you wanted to build a platform and

1:27:31

on Twitter if you want to build it I

1:27:33

mean there's a certain level of knowing where you

1:27:35

are in the food chain and and so if

1:27:37

you're going to build a platform going on for

1:27:39

the owner and asking them it again asking i

1:27:41

don't politics probably would have been fine as that

1:27:43

sounds questions so that such a me some ideas

1:27:45

on a say that's just that's just I hear

1:27:47

you but I don't think this is the issue

1:27:49

at stake is lemon was told he could ask

1:27:51

the things he was front of so he said

1:27:54

be tests and eve apparently ask questions as he

1:27:56

claimed we will get a seat as opposed to

1:27:58

some is impose although. The. Footage on and. You'll

1:28:00

be an expert. It's like I should have

1:28:02

the critical part though I would argue or

1:28:04

alex is that ostensibly this one argument is

1:28:07

that dilemma. Never signed the contract so when

1:28:09

the contract was cancelled it wasn't actually size

1:28:11

of a turns out to be true than

1:28:13

suspended sued cellphone. You don't have those questions

1:28:15

said so you have the signs and I

1:28:17

guarantee you the money. But we're also talking

1:28:19

about him and we have from. You

1:28:22

know, forgot my number. So so he died. You've

1:28:24

got your. He may have gotten exactly what he

1:28:26

wanted out of out of the whole thing to

1:28:28

me but he doesn't apply for now. So did

1:28:30

he get when he was semi still have platform

1:28:32

right? so the only he can suppose louder it's

1:28:34

as easy as of promotion. A doesn't get the

1:28:36

promotion but now he can like compass to you

1:28:38

tube or something which has problems. A safer bet

1:28:40

for him in I didn't Carlson sort of decamped

1:28:42

sucrose. I'm having some promotion on experts and didn't

1:28:44

get. A you know I didn't seem

1:28:46

a who's must go on they are Now

1:28:48

he's got a kind of his own things

1:28:50

but he's also posting an accident seem like

1:28:52

musket much and across the the Me and

1:28:54

either or vice versa. Runway made it into

1:28:56

the that that at at M. I think

1:28:58

this is hilarious. like seeing the the tough

1:29:00

guy to lot of internet nerds is is

1:29:02

so thin skinned that he cannot it out

1:29:04

cannot survive when interview as find that awareness

1:29:07

of the whole thing made me laugh. I

1:29:09

mean I got on one A the house

1:29:11

guy. I don't care about someone and I

1:29:13

don't read, I don't like to read anything.

1:29:15

At that you'll and must says ever. And

1:29:17

then I just saw this like interview that

1:29:19

led to the can see you know those

1:29:21

with cancellation whatever insights to don't have a

1:29:23

relationship with the elon musks as I guess.

1:29:26

That's. A threat of less to stories

1:29:28

You know it's like dead zone

1:29:30

program. us government. Was. To to

1:29:32

drive out. He didn't want to know

1:29:34

Charlie Brown Lucy football starts with like in

1:29:36

the past like seven years with like you

1:29:39

know, Like. People de Vito

1:29:41

like and then you go. you do business with

1:29:43

them in and they like screw you over. It's

1:29:45

like guess yeah it's like punch lines okay don't

1:29:47

I'm like I'm going for the next one to

1:29:50

see the Tesla Pie story recently. I mean that

1:29:52

was like last month but the with a were

1:29:54

Tesla had ordered a bunch of buys from a

1:29:56

small local bicep and then cancel the order of

1:29:58

last minute and it was. All disaster in

1:30:00

the company. a little bicep curls a

1:30:03

lot business spin Ilan graciously settlers and

1:30:05

zone or the steak and pay them

1:30:07

for all the pies but it was

1:30:09

towards Christmas was a woman I find

1:30:11

my on a lot of priests. six

1:30:13

three thousand dollars later something's wilde anyway

1:30:15

but it's a huge supplies to it

1:30:17

to him. Must companies are not worrying

1:30:19

he might wind up on the sword

1:30:21

into this. I miss out on a

1:30:23

Wednesday when I'm sure we'll be hearing

1:30:25

more about the story and I am

1:30:27

forever as Uma your Must discuss with

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business with. In the teachers are, but that's

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With. The. In the capable hands

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of Defender Hard award taken away Vivid

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know it is the most. Leo I'm

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we'll for so sorry this week I'm

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from Mr. Marker me and I think

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following up on all of his Apple

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Car revelations I he he was under

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who broke the story that that Apple

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Car Products was dead. After a

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decade and he spilled some details

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about that's in marker miserably this

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newsletter over a Bloomberg as he

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wrote about how Car Please basically

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Apple's last gasp. At. The car

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industry and we have scenes a more advanced

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form of car play being sent off, something

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that takes over the the front instrument cluster.

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It's a basically all the screens at the

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front of your car and Apple has not

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a right. Right now that is something really

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out to like. Very expensive high end luxury

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sedans. It's not coming to like a Corolla

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or something yet I'm but Apple really has

1:33:58

no plans for what. Do with car

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play at this point like they are spreading

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it out there. They're not charging manufacturer see

1:34:05

his car play, They're not charging customers or

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