0:00

It's time for Twitter this week in tech

0:02

episode nine hundred we celebrate with

0:04

a rocket takeover, Brianna Wu,

0:06

Christina Warren, and Simone to Rochefort

0:08

join me. We'll talk about what's happening in

0:10

Twitter. Elon is kinda

0:13

going crazy on the platform and

0:16

Stay tuned because at the end of the episode, one

0:18

of us is gonna get hit

0:20

with a pie. I'm not kidding.

0:22

Twitter's neck.

0:26

podcasts you love. From

0:28

people you trust. This

0:31

is twitch. This

0:39

is twitch. this week in tech. Episode

0:41

nine hundred for Sunday, November

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sixth twenty twenty two. The

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weekend tech is brought to you by OnLogic. OnLogic

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com. slash tweet.

2:08

It's time for tweet this week at Tech, the

2:11

show we cover the week's news, This ladies

2:13

and gentlemen is a momentous occasion for

2:15

a number of reasons. First of all,

2:17

it is our nine hundredth episode

2:19

to hit nine hundred. I know that's

2:21

kinda hard to believe. Second, because

2:24

we're being taken over. Yes.

2:26

By the Rocket podcast, it's

2:28

so exciting for me. I'm a huge

2:30

fan. From right to

2:32

left, well, you all know Brianna, will my

2:34

right your left? rebellion pack.

2:37

She's been here many, many times. Welcome,

2:40

Brianna. Great to have you. I have some questions. think

2:42

I was on,

2:43

like, three weeks ago. And now

2:45

I'm just I'm back. I'm busting up in

2:47

your show again. Well, I

2:49

I think when you were on three weeks ago, you said

2:51

we should do a rocket

2:53

Show. And

2:54

and you invited us, and I was like, yes,

2:56

we're gonna make it happen. I know what happened because

2:59

I said that you can never get SIMON to show

3:01

up.

3:01

We try and we try to get her on the show

3:03

and she never can do it. And you said, I'll talk

3:05

to her. I said, well, why don't you get Christina too while

3:07

you're at it? And we'll make it we'll make

3:09

it a rocket takeover. Here's Dina Warren.

3:12

Hello? Film grade studios.

3:14

She knew the middle part. We could forget, GitHub. GitHub's

3:16

having an event this week. Yes. GitHub universe

3:17

is a GitHub universe dot com, please,

3:20

like, register. But that's gonna be Wednesday and Thursday

3:23

at your way to commission

3:25

center here in San Francisco.

3:27

And but it lost me streamed

3:29

online, so I'm in town for that. Nice. And what's

3:31

actually funny is that I'd reached out,

3:34

like, on

3:34

We wanted to get you on. Yeah. because you

3:37

gonna be in town. Exactly. So you could come in. So I was gonna

3:39

I was already planning on being here. And I think that's

3:41

why we're doing it so quickly, Brianna,

3:43

because Oh, we have we have two out of

3:45

the three. If only somebody knew Simone

3:47

to rush four, only we could ask

3:49

her to be on. Simone, Simona's

3:51

here. She's she's she's finally

3:54

joining us from her dungeon.

3:55

You have this My windowless dungeon.

3:57

You know, now that I know you live in Manhattan, I understand.

4:00

That's actually a palace. Right.

4:02

It is. Where's your kitchen? Is that over

4:04

on the left there with the bell? Yeah.

4:06

Right back there. Yeah. Just right back there. I just

4:08

climbed into the closet. I turned on my little bunsen

4:10

burner.

4:10

never seen smaller kitchens in my life than in

4:12

New York.

4:13

Oh, yeah. No. It's it's great. You get like, if

4:15

you have a dishwasher, which I did in Brooklyn,

4:17

but it was not a full size, it was like half size

4:19

dishwasher, which is almost worse than no dishwasher

4:22

at all because, like, you can maybe get one

4:24

pan in it. Yeah. But the temptation

4:26

and the possibility is there, but the reality

4:28

Exactly. Yeah. I did

4:30

well, they had remember, Bob,

4:33

the mini dishwasher at no.

4:35

That's not it. No. Wait a minute. Let me see if I can find

4:37

it. at CES last

4:40

earlier this year. Oh, yeah. It's a personal

4:42

dishwasher. Yes. I remember this now. Tiny.

4:45

And I thought, well, who would want that

4:47

now? I know. People who have

4:49

small apartments? People like you. It's

4:51

just a little Bob, little dishwasher, a new sink

4:53

like that. Oh, it's so cute. Oh, that's so

4:55

cute. Oh, I love that. That's great.

4:57

Can I say something to remind people? Just

5:00

wash your goddamn dishes. Okay.

5:03

Hang on. No.

5:04

No. No. No. No. No. wind up

5:06

doing because we don't have a dishwasher.

5:07

But yes. Yeah. Dishwasher holds

5:09

three dishes and a casserole.

5:12

You could wash it in half the time. It would take to

5:14

load the damn thing.

5:15

Sure. I have two important points to make.

5:17

One, you should always hand wash pans

5:20

knives, things

5:21

like that. There's no reason for the

5:23

challenge. very important. However Do you put

5:25

your silverware handle up or handle down?

5:28

handled down. Mhmm.

5:30

Okay.

5:30

So III if you might handle up. It's controversial.

5:33

I know. I know.

5:33

Well, my wife and I was she she throws everything

5:35

in the Detroit, feeling my beautiful knives

5:38

with the wooden handles. Am I two? Am I two? Am

5:42

I two point where I buy wooden spoons by the

5:44

dozen now? because I know they're gonna

5:46

get warped and ruined. Right. And everything

5:48

goes in the dishwasher, but then we had a fight when we

5:51

first got together many years ago. handle

5:53

up or handle down. So that's why I'm asking.

5:56

Yeah. My personal feeling is you

5:58

put the tongs down. Yes. so that

6:00

you can remove them and hold them by the handle. You don't

6:02

wanna pick it out when you Exactly. I

6:05

don't have to sterilize myself to get my

6:07

silverware out of dishwasher. You agree. I

6:09

went one hundred percent with you. Apparently

6:10

similar. Are you putting tongs in the dishwasher?

6:13

Those are just regular No. No. Regular

6:15

silverware. Yeah. Like, putting the fork down. Like, you don't

6:17

you don't wanna, like, you know Oh, the tires up.

6:20

Tines down and tines up is the question. I

6:23

do. You don't mess around

6:25

with that. Those are if you cook

6:27

seriously, that is especially

6:29

your favorite chef's knife. I know. That

6:31

is you you don't like, if I think if

6:33

Frank put my chef's knife in the garage,

6:36

we would have a fight. I've broken her. Yeah.

6:38

And then real question oh, go on. No. Like,

6:40

yeah. Move on. Move on. The

6:43

real question in my mind is how much is this gonna

6:46

be like rocket? And how much is gonna

6:48

be I could talk about washing dishes for

6:50

literally hole You're trying to turn this into

6:52

rocket, and that's We've literally never once

6:54

talked about housework on on rocket. Oh.

6:56

Yeah. No. No. We haven't. Even though it's

6:58

my favorite thing. Wow.

7:01

Well, here's your opportunity, Simone. No.

7:04

ROCCAT is a wonderful podcast in Relay

7:06

FM that talks

7:08

about really a lot about news.

7:10

Right? In fact, I'm gonna apologize because I think

7:12

we're gonna kinda rerun your last show as well.

7:14

Absolutely fine. because No. No. Look. There's

7:16

been more steps in There's been more stuff. We had to

7:18

record on Tuesday because I was going out of town

7:21

and everything that happened between Tuesday and

7:23

now there's It's a whole

7:24

another show's first. Elon fired everybody

7:26

on Friday, saying on a note saying

7:29

on Thursday, don't come in. By the

7:31

way, I love it that it was signed Twitter.

7:35

Elon, we know it's you. Don't

7:38

come in. We're locking the office because

7:41

we're gonna lay a lot of people off. All

7:43

of you, this is this is cruel. All

7:45

of you are gonna get an email with

7:47

the subject line, something like your future

7:49

at Twitter. Yes. And

7:52

then we'll read the mail and learn

7:54

whether you are staying or leaving. Well, it

7:55

would depend on where it went. If it went to your

7:58

personal mail, that means that you're gone because

8:00

you've been knocked out of everything. But

8:02

if it went to your work mail, then congratulations.

8:04

You are still employed

8:06

for the moment. I can't imagine anything handled

8:08

more poorly. Neither. the worst layoff in

8:10

history, worse than the guy who fired everybody

8:12

on Zoom. I was

8:13

okay. So do you think it's worse than that? Because

8:15

I was having this debate with some people in,

8:17

like, a a signal chat where we were

8:19

trying to decide, I think, overall, this

8:21

is worse because it just helped

8:22

there was no communication for the poll week he'd

8:25

own the company. People were just constantly seeing

8:27

in the wind. Of course.

8:28

And and and and I think the uncertainty

8:30

was so bad, but I do wonder, like,

8:32

I think that also just being called into a group

8:35

slap into a group Zoom meeting and being told

8:37

you're fired in the meeting cutting out

8:39

password.

8:40

because they we're cutting everyone's access.

8:43

Regardless, this is my question too,

8:46

because we were talking about this a bit, Christina.

8:48

And when I initially read the story. You know,

8:50

of course, first, it was the Washington Post

8:52

reporting. There might be seventy percent of the company

8:54

laid off. Then it was a slightly lower number, I think,

8:56

when we recorded on Tuesday. Right. And then

8:58

it ended being a ton of people.

9:00

And as I was reading about how this was done,

9:03

which does seem very

9:04

cruel.

9:06

I I did start wondering, like, what is the right

9:08

way to do this in a world where so

9:10

many people do work from home at

9:12

this exact moment? And that question was

9:14

kind of answered for us by the strike. write

9:16

layoffs -- Yes. -- which we talked about, Christina,

9:19

which, like, obviously, layoffs are terrible

9:21

and one would hope that you would

9:23

never have to live through them and they're hard for people who

9:25

are laid off. They're hard for the people who remain behind

9:28

at the company. But when we compare

9:30

the Twitter email with the email that

9:32

Stripe sent out to their employees. There's

9:34

just a huge difference in the clarity

9:36

of the communication that happened to the people

9:39

who were laid off.

9:40

Yeah. No. I think you're exactly right. I'm

9:42

also I'm

9:42

also really struck by the methodology

9:45

that they used to decide who they were gonna fire.

9:47

was bizarre. They they went

9:49

through them for the engineering talent. It was,

9:51

like, who had the most, like,

9:52

lines of code that they -- What's submitted? --

9:55

they asked me to That's Crazy.

9:57

They asked people to to print out their

9:59

code. In fact, they approved her. We

10:01

did picture of her with the code she'd committed.

10:04

And then to present couple of things weird about

10:06

that. First of all, they brought in

10:09

Tesla engineers -- Yes. -- to

10:11

talk to you about your code commits engineers

10:14

working on a completely different product. Right.

10:16

By the way, don't already don't have the best

10:18

track

10:18

record. Well, not only that, but, like, are not

10:20

JavaScript. engineers. Yeah. Twitter is a

10:22

lot for them. No. Exactly. Twitter is largely

10:24

a JavaScript shop. So, you know, if

10:26

you're working on hardcore things that Tesla does,

10:28

like, or do you even know how to evaluate

10:31

you know, that code. There's also I

10:34

mean, I I doubt. I can't believe

10:36

that for it just it's but boggles

10:38

the mind that it's possible for somebody to buy

10:40

a company on Friday.

10:43

And within a week, fire

10:45

half the staff and knowing who to fire

10:47

and who to fire. I don't understand -- hundred percent.

10:50

-- what metrics are you looking at? Right.

10:52

Well How would you know if somebody's a good employee

10:55

or not? You wouldn't. Now from what I've

10:56

there's been some reporting about this, and then I've

10:58

heard some things independently that

11:01

the previous

11:02

You already had a map. they

11:04

already had

11:05

listings and they'd already been asking people

11:07

to make lists. Now in my opinion, this actually

11:10

is even more frustrating because the

11:12

severance packages from some of the reporting things

11:14

we've heard was not as good as what it had ever been

11:16

at Twitter beforehand, which means that

11:18

if you knew that layoffs were coming,

11:21

The humane thing to do would be while

11:24

you still have a job as an executive to

11:26

lay off those people the right way. to

11:28

to do the right thing. Mhmm. And and and then

11:30

if more people needed to be laid off fine.

11:33

But instead, from what I understand, they

11:35

basically just wanted it to be Elan's

11:37

problem and, you know,

11:40

wanted to close the deal. But if you come

11:42

into a company, fire

11:44

all the leadership -- Yeah. -- and then use

11:46

their roadmap for who else to fire. Right.

11:48

It's kind of saying I don't trust these guys. They didn't

11:50

do a good job running Twitter. Oh, but by the way, let's

11:52

look like let's use what they

11:55

but they sent their notes. So I find

11:57

it hard to believe that that was a value. What's

12:00

the deal with the lines of code? Why print out

12:02

your code? There's a famous story. This

12:04

is Andy. There you go. Yes. I love this. I love this.

12:06

What's fickler dot org about

12:08

the early days of the MacKatosh. He's writing about Bill Atkinson.

12:11

arguably the greatest coder of

12:13

our or you're one of them, sir. One one

12:15

hundred percent.

12:15

One of the the, like, quintessential, like,

12:18

of the modern kind of gooey era

12:20

people. Like, yes. He wrote quick

12:22

draw. He wrote the the graphic primitives

12:25

for the MacKATosh. Andy says in

12:27

early eighty two, the Lisa software team was trying

12:29

to buckle down for the big push to

12:31

ship the software within the next six months. some

12:33

of the managers decided it would be a good idea to track

12:36

the progress of each individual engineer

12:38

in terms of the amount of code they

12:40

wrote from week to week sound familiar. So

12:43

they asked every engineer to submit a form Bill

12:45

Atkinson, legendary Bill Atkinson, had

12:47

been working on optimizing quick draw,

12:50

had re the region engine using a simpler,

12:52

more general algorithm. So

12:54

on his form, he said,

12:58

I wrote minus two thousand

13:00

lines of code. He cut out

13:03

two thousand lines of code. Wow.

13:05

Now, if you're if you're asking

13:08

me, I say, that's a guy to hire. I agree.

13:10

But that print out or something. It's a little

13:12

short. It is. It

13:14

yeah. one hundred percent. But but it's

13:16

just such a dumb metric to base things

13:18

on And

13:18

we don't know. We don't know about history. We

13:20

don't know what happened. I

13:21

was gonna say, I've heard a lot of conflicting

13:23

things from people who would be in a better position

13:25

to know to say that maybe that was part of it, but

13:27

that wasn't the entire thing. Regardless, if

13:29

that plays any role know, it just shows

13:31

just what a disaster this whole

13:34

thing has been. And I think the reason, you

13:36

know, there's been no communication, and

13:38

that's that allows

13:39

conservatives A vacuum of

13:41

information. That's when your conspiracy theories

13:43

and all the weirdness starts. And I'll

13:45

add one more weird piece that just

13:47

came out this morning. People

13:50

are saying, this is Matt Navarro, who

13:54

tweeted, confirmed Twitter is now asking

13:56

some fired workers to please come

13:58

back. Yeah. Oh my god. Some were

14:00

laid off by mistake. Mhmm. Some

14:02

were let go before management realized their

14:04

experiences needed. to build the

14:06

features even. Or as you call him,

14:09

Brianna, I believe, Elno, is

14:11

planning. Elno. Elno? Elno. I

14:14

made a typo with I'm like, no. This

14:16

is actually better. It's catching on. Like, a viral

14:18

tweet about catching on. Oh, it's great. I love

14:20

it. A lot of it. Well, it also has advantage that if

14:22

if Elon's looking for his name, which he is

14:24

undoubtedly spending most of his day doing.

14:27

Yeah. He may not follow, though. So

14:30

we

14:30

all see about, like, how how how a lot of the

14:32

stuff leaked was that when he added some

14:34

of the new lieutenants and and

14:36

and some of his new, like, henchmen into

14:39

Twitter's Slack instance, they did

14:41

not realize that the channels they created were

14:43

not private by default. Oh. Yep.

14:46

and that's why people were able to

14:48

then monitor what was happening,

14:50

find documents which were also not private.

14:53

David Sachs' calendar was open

14:55

to everyone. And so if he was

14:57

able to see the people were able to see, oh, we're having

14:59

meetings about layoffs here, here, here, I

15:02

mean, just the the level of incompetence the

15:04

whole way around. It's just so I feel I feel so

15:06

bad for every person who's still there, every

15:08

person who was there, I know it was My

15:10

heart goes out. I know it was a messy company,

15:12

but to have it happen this way. And

15:14

then for it to be so public, and

15:17

and and to just then have a certain

15:19

condition of the Internet's

15:20

gleefully, like, replacing

15:22

the Internet. It's it's really

15:24

gross. Like, I really think exactly

15:25

Yeah. because Twitter is

15:28

it's one of the loudest pieces of social

15:30

media we have. Like tweets get

15:32

printed in so many other,

15:35

like, news stories on articles all over the

15:37

Internet, and everyone on Twitter is very opinionated.

15:39

And I think we'll talk about this little bit. But, like,

15:42

it's not the biggest social media, but it contains

15:44

some of the biggest, like, wind

15:47

bags that we have. And I include myself

15:49

among them.

15:49

So So the amplification,

15:51

what do you say? for this to be happening. It really

15:54

goes out to the world at large if you tweet

15:56

something. Mhmm. As Donald Trump and Elon

15:58

Musk, but Is Elon Hollister says

16:00

the number one poster now on --

16:02

Oh, yeah. -- Twitter, I believe so. Oh, we can sit

16:04

on your show? No. We'll

16:06

believe it just like we do on your show. as

16:10

as

16:10

as a Simone's the one who has to keep

16:12

us in check.

16:12

I don't know. I think there's a way to say poster

16:14

without saying There's I mean, ish poster say

16:17

ask poster. Ask poster, but that

16:19

sounds like poster. No. I say ish poster.

16:21

Ish poster. poster. Okay.

16:23

But it doesn't it's not as good as poster.

16:25

There is I I kid you not.

16:28

There is somebody probably Jason Howell who's now

16:30

head assitiously writing down the time codes.

16:32

And every time you say, So keep

16:34

saying it. And that way Listen,

16:36

I'm so sorry. That's usually my

16:38

job, and I'm so sorry.

16:41

You do it very well. No. I don't.

16:43

I explicitly don't. I get in trouble for it. I'm

16:45

gonna Now you use a high pitched beep.

16:47

I will I do we use a beep,

16:49

John? No. We, like, reverse it. We do

16:51

silence. Oh, I like that. I like that

16:53

better honestly. Sometimes, you know, we like to

16:55

say, like She's a Springer back in the

16:57

day. What is Springer? Leah. Leah. That's

17:01

fun too. Yeah. I

17:02

just wanted to but going back to who

17:04

they fired, I wanted to say we do

17:06

know a lot about which teams they

17:09

fired at this point. We know that

17:11

one of the teams that worked on accessibility

17:14

for, you know, people with disabilities, they're

17:16

gone. We know one of the

17:19

teams have dealt with that misinformation. They

17:21

are gone. We know that the Twitter

17:23

right feature is something I've been really,

17:26

really eager for them to

17:28

unveil finally. Like, I've been talking to

17:30

them in in PM forever going, please

17:32

bring this to market. I wanna use this.

17:35

Like, Elon is a nail thing. that

17:37

you're gonna be able to do long form things

17:39

on Twitter. And then he goes and fires

17:41

the entire Twitter right

17:42

team. And it's just it's

17:45

it's all the moves he's making It's like,

17:47

I understand that there need

17:49

to be layoffs here. I don't think

17:51

Twitter is the only overstaffed company

17:53

in Silicon Valley, and I think it can

17:56

make times sense sometimes to, like,

17:58

take a step back, look at what

17:59

you need, and refocus in a moment

18:02

like this. I don't think anyone reasonable

18:04

would have an issue with that. But the thing

18:06

is they came in here. They're getting

18:08

people from outside the company to make

18:10

these decisions. It's haphazard. you've

18:13

got legacy. There was a great thread

18:16

on Twitter yesterday with someone

18:18

who works on the the reliability part

18:20

of Twitter. talking out how he

18:22

is really worried about the threats to the

18:24

service from here forward because

18:26

there are people that under stand

18:29

all this legacy code that they count on

18:31

to keep the thing running for high frequency

18:34

events like Queen Elizabeth, and they're

18:36

just gone now. So, like, say,

18:38

the midterms next week, this

18:40

week rather. Like, what's gonna

18:42

happen when that part of Twitter

18:44

goes down or needs someone to understand that

18:46

look at it. It's just gonna plummet.

18:49

So think about the reliability of

18:51

Twitter going down in the same

18:53

period of time that you're asking people

18:56

to pay eight dollars a month for it. It makes

18:58

no sense. It's just it's

19:00

it's if you had to do this, there was a much

19:02

smarter way to do it. I

19:04

think one of the people fired

19:06

was the person who writes the notes

19:08

for the IS iOS update. because

19:11

I think think this time and Micah,

19:13

thank you for pointing this out. Elon Musk wrote

19:15

these. What's new? Starting today,

19:17

we're adding great new features to Twitter Blue. We

19:19

have more on the way soon. get Twitter

19:21

Blue for seven ninety nine a month if you sign up.

19:23

Now is that actually then

19:25

I heard that it wasn't everybody wasn't getting

19:28

that option that they're rolling it out.

19:30

Blue check mark quote, colon,

19:32

power to the people, colon. Your

19:35

account will get a blue check mark just like the celebrities,

19:38

companies, and politicians you already follow. speaking

19:41

as a blue check mark person,

19:43

I will be losing my blue check mark in

19:45

three months. So thank you very much.

19:47

coming soon half the ads, ampersand, much

19:49

better ones.

19:51

Right. You are better ads. Let me Well,

19:53

I mean, all the advertisers are also, like,

19:56

big

19:56

accounts are are pausing or leaving.

19:58

Some of them made decision on the

19:59

call with him when as he was trying to calm

20:02

advertisers down, This is according to

20:04

Kara Swisher. The advertising

20:06

community was kind of so turned off.

20:08

They were like, yeah. So we're gonna

20:09

pause our spend. Yeah. because we

20:11

don't Well, Elon fired the person who liaised

20:14

with these people. Oh, no. She quit. Oh, she

20:16

quit. She quit. She she

20:17

basically said we're still committed to these things.

20:19

And then, I guess, after two days, she was like, actually, you

20:21

know what?

20:21

Bye. Then he advised

20:24

New York to meet with advertisers without

20:26

her -- Right. -- because she quit. and

20:28

takes the meeting himself, then swisher

20:31

was saying that people were saying in

20:33

the meeting, Elon seemed distracted,

20:35

unprepared, just

20:37

the usual, you know, kinda

20:39

off the cuff b s, at which point

20:42

advertisers literally pause

20:44

the meeting types to their

20:46

their CMO. Let's not buy anymore

20:48

ads for a little bit. Oh my god.

20:51

So half the ads but much better ones,

20:53

according to Sure. this anonymous writer,

20:55

since you're supporting Twitter Twitter in the battle

20:57

against the bots. Oh, I didn't know that's what the

20:59

eight bucks did. We're gonna reward you with

21:01

half the ads and make them twice as relevant.

21:04

Okay. Post what? Post

21:06

longer videos. You'll finally be able to post longer

21:08

videos to Twitter. By the way, there should be

21:11

a dot dot dot that's in this update. But

21:13

we're gonna do that eventually. Priority ranking.

21:15

For quality content. Okay. He

21:17

said this. don't understand what that means. Your content

21:20

if you pay eight bucks. By the way, who's

21:22

gonna pay eight bucks? Kanye

21:24

or Christina Warren. I mean, Christina Warren. Absolutely.

21:27

Yeah. Absolutely. Really?

21:28

I already paid for Twitter Blue. I'm not gonna It's

21:30

three bucks. I know. But it's but then

21:32

I think they changed the price. don't even know how much I pay.

21:34

It's it's yes. I It was

21:37

four ninety nine. Then three it was two ninety

21:39

nine then it was four ninety nine. Right. seven ninety

21:41

nine. And I think I've been paying three ninety nine or two

21:43

ninety nine. I don't know. Yes. I will pay eight dollars.

21:45

Twenty dollars I might have. Three dollars. Yeah. Eight dollars

21:47

Eight dollars. I I'm with Christina. I

21:49

already subscribed to Twitter Blue. And,

21:52

you know, I I've gotten so much

21:54

out of Twitter for my career And,

21:56

you know, I'm there to go viral into

21:59

it.

21:59

It's beneficial

21:59

to my career and the things I wanna do.

22:02

But isn't that wearing a dollar someone?

22:04

Most detect and gamergate was on Twitter.

22:06

A hundred percent. Like, Twitter is

22:08

it's the bane of my existence, and it's,

22:10

like, also a a critical tool.

22:13

for me to get through my day. And,

22:16

you know, it's it's hard, but, like,

22:18

that that algorithm Your

22:19

state is on Twitter right now. Yeah.

22:22

I look, I can't quit it. III Okay.

22:25

Can I just say something? And you I I don't wanna say this

22:27

in the kindest way. Sure. Possible. you

22:30

you sound like Stockholm syndrome, like --

22:32

No. -- you you sound like cigarette

22:34

addicts who -- They're -- are trying

22:36

to give up something that's bad painfully

22:39

matters for you. Yeah. You're not

22:40

in any way wrong, but I also it

22:42

is hilarious, awful,

22:44

wonderful,

22:44

jeez. Things happen. Can't let

22:46

it go. Well, it's

22:47

just look. a certain point, if the

22:49

people who are who I'm on the platform

22:51

for, which make it worth being on go away, if

22:53

the culture goes away, but just ridiculous

22:56

stupid things will happen that only

22:58

happen on Twitter. And There is

23:00

some cultural thing There is cultural

23:01

thing going on in Even now as it's

23:04

breaking down. The fact that it's happening on

23:06

Twitter is in and of itself, like, the car

23:08

crash you can't turn away from. So as I've

23:10

been I've been joking, like, I will

23:12

be, you know, playing, you know, near my god

23:14

to be, as this goes down,

23:16

like, it's gonna get into the into the

23:18

sea. You'll be dancing on the deck at Titanic.

23:21

Mhmm. I have thoughts of about this. because I while

23:23

I absolutely I am very sad

23:25

about everyone who has lost their job at Twitter,

23:28

I do think there's something very special

23:30

and interesting about a website

23:32

that is fundamentally broken. And Twitter

23:35

has been that in a lot of ways for many

23:37

years. In ways that Twitter itself

23:39

has been actively trying to fix when it comes

23:41

to addressing harassment and misinformation,

23:44

and all of these incredibly important things that make

23:46

the website more humane to be on. However,

23:49

as a person who is on Tumblr right now,

23:51

a website that is fantastically broken

23:54

and has a strange community that

23:56

like, feels like they've been through something

23:58

together. There's something

24:01

in me that is excited for

24:03

that era of Twitter. because I don't think it's

24:05

going to die. If it dies, it won't die

24:07

right away. Like, the people who are in it for the

24:09

long haul, like you, Christina, they're sticking

24:11

around And until

24:14

they go away, Twitter will continue to exist in

24:16

some form or other. And I think we're just

24:18

going to see it kind of evolve in

24:21

strange and fascinating ways. And

24:23

I'm interested in that, not in a car crash

24:26

kind of way, but in, like, what

24:28

happens to this community? What does it turn into?

24:31

And I think maybe it only becomes problem because

24:34

there are so many high profile people

24:36

there and because there's so much potential for misinformation.

24:38

So, like, it's not all fun in games, but

24:40

do think it's fascinating. It is possible

24:43

that it

24:43

could technically fail if you fire half --

24:45

Oh, yeah. -- the people, if you don't fire the red half

24:47

-- Oh,

24:48

Oh, see. Honestly, to me, I think

24:50

that

24:51

so

24:52

a week ago, when we were when this stuff

24:54

happened, if you would ask me, what are the chances

24:56

of of Twitter literally kind of catching on fire and

24:58

a lot people moving off and it dying

25:00

very quickly? I've been like, look,

25:02

I'll see you all in two days. Everybody's moving to Mastodon. I

25:05

was like, see you in five minutes. Right? Like, you're you're

25:07

gonna be back on in half an hour. You're gonna do

25:09

the same thing that as we were talking free show, all

25:11

of us have done. We sign up for these services. We

25:13

use them, and then we go back to what we know.

25:16

But seeing how this was handled

25:18

seeing some of the changes that

25:20

they claim they aren't making, but now there's no one to,

25:22

you know, kind of keep things running. Knowing

25:25

things that I've heard about how, like, the internal

25:27

co basis of Twitter has been handled. I do have very

25:29

real questions of which is, is this site

25:31

going to be able to remain up? And

25:34

where's the institute social knowledge and what's going

25:36

to happen. And, you know,

25:38

even though they laid off

25:41

fewer people on the trust and safety team,

25:43

that doesn't mean that there aren't so other people on

25:45

to, like, what are you doing to prevent

25:47

fraud? Like, Elon says he wants to get rid of the

25:49

bots, but are you employing

25:51

the people who were going to do good job with

25:54

that? Right? Or is this going to become overrun? So

25:56

I don't know. I think that you're right. I think there's very

25:58

real possibility that it could break down technologically.

26:01

I also think and this

26:03

is a total one eighty from where I was a week ago,

26:05

that it is much

26:06

more likely that things could get worse

26:09

much more quickly than than I thought. Yeah.

26:11

And the midterm is good to make sense. I

26:13

also oh, go ahead, Samantha. I

26:15

was

26:16

just gonna say the midterms next week is where

26:18

we're gonna see that tested for the first time probably.

26:20

Howard Bauchner: A

26:21

hundred percent think I think, you

26:23

know, Twitter just like Tesla

26:26

is facing a huge amount of competition.

26:28

I think TikTok really opened up the door

26:30

that you know, you could have people

26:33

come in with better product and

26:35

get a real foothold. TikTok

26:37

got a foothold by not just

26:39

focusing on Gen Z, but

26:41

by making it a pleasant place

26:43

to spend time. If you're on TikTok,

26:46

there's not just this barrage of negativity

26:48

that you get with with Twitter. I

26:50

think if you had those half a

26:52

people that quit at Twitter and they

26:55

went and started something that was

26:57

just like, look, Twitter is a technical

26:59

product, is utterly fungible. And

27:01

they said, we're gonna put trust and safety

27:03

first. That is our primary mission objective.

27:06

And on top of that, you know, we're gonna

27:08

verify the journalists, and we're gonna, you

27:11

know, tweak the algorithm. So it's more

27:13

about, you know, broadcasting current events

27:15

other than you know, quote, treat donks

27:17

on everybody. Right? I think

27:19

the real problem is Twitter is not

27:22

a pleasant place to spend time.

27:24

It's a tool that all of us need.

27:26

And, you know, for major events, it's a

27:28

lot of fun. Like, there have been, like,

27:31

days on Twitter. It's just the best thing

27:33

that's ever happened when someone makes a huge

27:35

mistake. Like, do you remember the Will Smith

27:37

slap thing? That was a great day on

27:39

Twitter. Would you guys

27:41

remember the greatest day in history of online,

27:43

which was when the llamas escaped. And

27:46

you scanned in the address and the logs

27:48

happened?

27:49

Yes. At the same on the same day The

27:51

address and the

27:52

on us. That was the greatest day in the history

27:54

of online. And Twitter was amazing

27:56

wonderful. I thought you were gonna

27:58

say

27:58

I think you guys are very

27:59

bullish about one. You guys have mush minds

28:02

from watching too much Kilagan's

28:04

Island and you need too much kind of candy.

28:06

Definitely. Yeah. That's a show that garbage

28:09

culture. Yes, it is. This is garbage

28:11

culture. It is absolutely garbage. And and we are

28:13

garbage That's good for you. You're not garbage people.

28:15

No. We are. And and and there's there's

28:17

this

28:17

No. You're not.

28:20

You deserve better than llama's

28:22

escaping in blue gold dresses. You

28:25

deserve better. Have you listened

28:27

to the show? Do you know how many episodes

28:29

we've had on Adi Delphi? Wait.

28:32

I wanna know what Leo's best day on Twitter.

28:35

What? Yeah. What was your best answer? Oh, no. I've had

28:37

nothing but bad days on Twitter because

28:39

Well, in fact, one of the reasons I pulled back

28:41

from Twitter was I realized And

28:44

I think some of you have not yet realized this

28:46

that the only thing you can do on Twitter is get

28:48

in trouble, that it's very hard

28:50

not to get in trouble because what happens is

28:52

Twitter is designed to get you a turbo.

28:54

Okay. And and what you put on

28:56

Twitter feels like it's quick,

28:59

it's fast, it's gone immediately, and it's not at

29:01

least forever, So I think

29:03

for most people,

29:05

Twitter ends up being a

29:08

dangerous place. And I

29:10

include Elon Musk in this. I

29:12

include myself. I had I stopped

29:14

tweeting on Twitter because I got in a fight with somebody.

29:17

you know, it it really wraps

29:19

you up and you and winds you up and you

29:21

get in fight and then then a day later,

29:23

you go, what have I done? You

29:25

don't have those experiences. No.

29:27

You definitely do, but I I will push

29:29

back a little bit because all those

29:31

things are accurate and are true. But I think

29:33

that and and look, this isn't exclusively true

29:35

of Twitter. This could be true of any other network

29:38

where you can really build relationships with people.

29:40

But I've genuinely met people, like,

29:42

Micah Sargent, who is in this room

29:44

right now in the audience. He

29:46

and I are our friends and started doing a podcast

29:48

together and got to know each other because of Twitter.

29:52

Brianna Wu, Swoon, DeRoche, for and I, like, because

29:54

of social networks, I've built real relationships,

29:56

I've gotten jobs, I've had really

29:58

in-depth conversations with people

30:00

that I would have never I otherwise had

30:03

chance to meet even through things like Twitter

30:05

spaces when that debuted during the

30:07

pandemic and that a great group of people

30:09

that I I talked to all the time. Because of

30:11

animal crossing and a Twitter DM

30:13

group, there are people that I used you

30:15

know, some of them, I I worked with a Microsoft, some of

30:17

them didn't who we all got to know each other.

30:19

Like, there are, I think, real community

30:21

and relationship things that happen in addition

30:23

to the fights. And and I do agree with

30:26

you that, yes, it's probably is optimized to

30:28

to get you in trouble. But there's really good

30:30

things that

30:30

are are part of of this too.

30:32

I I mean, social networks are good.

30:36

for all of that, I agree.

30:38

And I guess it wouldn't be as good if we're a small

30:40

network. Right. So you

30:42

need some some global network to meet

30:44

people and to kind of find affinity groups

30:46

and all that. guess you have to have and the

30:48

problem, of course, with all social networks is the bigger

30:51

they get, the more wild and

30:53

unmanageable and problematic thinking. Right. We've seen

30:55

this again and again and it's a small social

30:57

network. We were talking before we began

30:59

the show about

31:01

prior

31:02

failed social networks like

31:04

Path, or Pounce, or

31:06

Jiku, and they were all great because they were small.

31:09

And it's but if if they had gotten the size of

31:11

Twitter, they would have been as bad as Twitter, of course.

31:13

Yeah. I mean, it was worse. Oh, and

31:15

there's probably a balance. Right? There probably is,

31:17

like, maybe that perfect when it's big enough

31:19

to incorporate a bunch of different types of

31:21

people, but not so big that it, you

31:23

know, becomes assessable.

31:26

Right? And that's the problem because they're trying

31:29

to make these websites continually bigger

31:31

and buy more users so they can more make

31:33

money, which does make sense because websites

31:35

need to make money. but I don't

31:38

think anyone has properly solved the question

31:40

of how do we continue growing and

31:43

make this

31:43

community global and enormous without

31:45

making everyone be at each other's throats all the

31:47

time. Twitter probably did the best job. Right?

31:50

the

31:52

Oh my god. This was

31:54

the greatest moment ever. Twitter was

31:56

set up to do a really good job. I mean, with

31:58

all these teams that have

31:59

now been I'm sorry. I'll let us watch

32:02

the mama because No. No. No. It's most people

32:04

are listening. The rest of them are being distracted

32:06

by the sight of a guy. chasing

32:09

a very adorable looking black

32:11

mama.

32:11

I do wanna talk about mamas, really,

32:14

because I think that they are one of the few

32:16

mammals that, like, you can look

32:18

into their eyes and, like,

32:21

see no no love there, no understanding.

32:24

They are creatures that are kind of disdained

32:26

for you. Yeah. I don't like, has anyone

32:28

ever met a loving mama?

32:30

No. They spit. They're groaned.

32:32

Yeah. Gotcha. No. Don't confuse

32:35

a lama with a

32:37

what's the cute one? El Pacas. El

32:39

Pacas. because those are human. Yeah.

32:41

Those are really small. But Llamas. No.

32:43

Llamas are are can

32:45

I say asshole? No.

32:46

No? Okay. Well, yeah.

32:48

Y'all only I've got some breaking news. Yes.

32:51

Some breaking names. names. Elon

32:54

Musk has just tweeted tweet tweeted

32:56

it that going forward any Twitter

32:58

handle engaging impersonation without

33:01

clearly specifying their parody

33:04

will be permanently cis You know why

33:06

he says that? You're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're you're

33:09

you're you're you're you're I just

33:12

Like I say, this is the hypocrisy of

33:14

this dude. Yes. You know, it's like he says

33:16

he wants free speech, and then people

33:19

are are are or go or or

33:21

he's the butt of the joke, and that's when

33:23

he shuts it down.

33:23

Everybody's been testing content

33:26

moderation by changing

33:28

not their hand their Twitter handle, but their

33:30

their name. Yeah. To Elon Musk,

33:33

adding a blue check, putting

33:35

the same picture, and then saying outrageous

33:38

things. And apparently, they've gotten under the

33:40

skin of Elon. And now he said, well, no. That's not

33:42

gonna happen. And this is gonna be exactly

33:44

the problem. Yes. This is really Elon's

33:46

fiefdom. Mhmm. So there's

33:48

two things that Elon could do with Twitter. Try

33:50

to get his money back. Not gonna happen.

33:52

But he could try -- Yeah. -- polish it up.

33:55

turn it into some you know, something that that maybe

33:57

investors might say, oh, you know, this this is

33:59

the new Twitter. Call the private equity people in.

34:01

I don't think private equity. I think IPO. because

34:04

you're more they're more dumb people in IPO than private

34:06

equity. Oh, no. I already got private equity.

34:08

He's got thirteen billion dollars a

34:10

billion dollar a year big. No.

34:12

I'm just thinking if he wants to get out of this as soon as

34:14

possible. Nobody's gonna buy it from him.

34:17

This is the whole problem. Twitter had been trying

34:19

for well, yeah. Twitter

34:21

had been trying to sell itself for years,

34:24

and nobody would buy it. along comes this

34:26

cuckoo million billionaire. I'll

34:28

give you forty four billion. What? Okay.

34:30

Sure. Yeah. Nobody's gonna

34:33

So maybe polishes the turd and IPOs.

34:35

Or

34:37

maybe he really wants the

34:39

influence, the power that

34:41

Twitter could give him certainly

34:43

gave Donald Trump the presidency.

34:46

Right? Sure. Although,

34:47

I think there's a question to then be had, which

34:49

is, does that influence remain if it turns

34:52

into, if all the people and the

34:54

programs that made it what it is if

34:56

they go away,

34:56

and if it becomes this speaker

34:58

He's Philip Morris. He's got you guys hooked already.

35:00

Well, no. All he has to do is keep feeding you

35:02

the nick. Well And you're gonna stay on.

35:04

Well,

35:04

we're host, but at the same time, I will say,

35:07

like, benignly, and and I and I this is

35:09

somebody who I just said I'm gonna go down with the Titanic

35:11

with this thing because will, but

35:13

I'm also going to add a caveat with that,

35:15

which is that if people that I

35:17

get a good experience with. And I'm not talking

35:19

about the the good experience of when we all

35:21

are mad at someone, but like the genuinely good

35:24

experiences. If that goes away,

35:27

I might still check-in, but I'm not

35:29

going to be active. Right? Like, that's a different

35:31

sort of thing.

35:31

Yeah. I mean, I still read it. Right. But that

35:34

still means it has influence. You're a journalist you're not

35:36

a journalist anymore. You are. Right. Sure. Lots

35:38

of journalists, they will read it. They will amplify

35:40

the New York Times. They'll still publish tweets.

35:43

Well, I mean, that that's what I'm saying. I I think we'll

35:45

see because if the people that would be doing

35:48

notable things go away. If it's just his,

35:50

you know, echo chamber, then III don't know. I

35:52

don't know if the culture remains the same.

35:54

If that happens,

35:56

he can't polish the turd and sell it,

35:58

and he can't won't have any influence, and he's really

36:00

out of luck. They need Neil Eipertels correct, and

36:02

he's entered his own impossible

36:05

Hobbsons choice. It's a hellscape. Yeah.

36:08

Mhmm. I I genuinely believe

36:10

some team is gonna come forward and

36:12

they're gonna do the things that the reasonable

36:14

people on Twitter have been asking for

36:17

for years. better trust and safety,

36:19

more transparent policies, you

36:21

know, lowering the toxicity, you

36:24

know, tweaking the algorithm, so it's less about

36:27

outrage and more about positive conversation,

36:30

there is definitely a space for a product

36:32

like that. I think journalists generally

36:34

speaking or interested in getting their stories

36:37

out to people and and looking

36:39

at sources. And think that the credible

36:41

people that Twitter is

36:43

is basically provide the content

36:46

that makes Twitter worthwhile. I think

36:48

increasingly they're gonna look at the way Elon

36:50

is running this thing they're gonna be looking

36:52

for alternatives. And I think there's

36:54

ample space for a competitor there.

36:57

There is no one yet though. Right? There's nobody that's

36:59

a reasonable competitor. There's

37:01

a text Not Facebook. I do wanna

37:03

say. I signed up for Mastodon on

37:06

a whim. And look, we've

37:08

criticized it. Plenty on our show.

37:10

It is hard to access the onboarding,

37:12

gets an f minus, but

37:15

I have to say the conversations I'm

37:17

having on there because of the technical

37:19

barrier to signing up for

37:20

it. It's it's like out dot

37:22

net again. Like, it's it's That's very technical.

37:26

you didn't know this, but we've run a Mastodon instance

37:28

for some years, Twitter, social. been really impressed

37:30

with it. And I'm

37:33

a little nervous about actually enticing people

37:35

from Twitter to come over. I don't want it to turn into

37:37

the next quarter. I think that

37:39

would be in fact, I've kind of tell people, you

37:41

know, tone it down. This isn't the same place.

37:45

get to know the culture before you start --

37:47

Yeah. -- doing the same stuff. I'm

37:49

a little nervous actually about Mastodon attempting

37:52

to become Twitter. It has some structural things

37:54

that will keep it from that. The Federation is

37:56

great. I run a instance. You run an instance.

37:58

Mhmm. They run an instance, and you can block

38:00

instances you don't like. You can

38:03

choose who to follow. You can have different rules.

38:05

You in a way, you could do what I was

38:07

saying, which is create a small

38:09

the kinda

38:10

more personal space that still

38:12

connects to a larger global space.

38:15

So there is and that's what Blue Sky, by

38:17

the way, Jack Dorsey's attempt to create

38:19

federated Twitter is all about. Do you think

38:22

Blue Sky is gonna be come

38:24

along and be replacement? I signed up for the I

38:26

don't have an invite yet. Team, I don't have invite

38:28

either. And and I I was mean to

38:30

Jack towards you on Twitter yesterday, so I probably won't You

38:33

were early. What'd you say to Jack?

38:35

You picked a fight with Jack. Jack said I

38:37

grew it too fast. It's my fault. And

38:39

and I basically said that that

38:40

was a little bit too little too late for the thousands

38:43

of people that were laid off. But anyway, Jack has

38:45

a massive stake still. I know. Being

38:47

Elon's Twitter. I know he does. Yeah. I know he does.

38:49

Yeah. And,

38:49

anyway, like, I

38:52

that anyway, so I hope

38:54

I look, I think the things like Blue Sky

38:56

and and Mastodon and others have a lot of potential.

38:58

I think that I don't think Jack was wrong when

39:00

he said that he'd wish that Twitter had always been a

39:02

protocol. I do feel like that's a little

39:05

bit of of false,

39:08

like, looking back, you know, what he's

39:10

saying doesn't really match with the reality what his

39:12

decisions were

39:12

when he was CEO of Twitter both

39:15

times. Right? Because he made decisions revisionist

39:17

history. That's what I was looking for. He's a lot of revisionist

39:19

history.

39:20

But I I I'm not opposed to those

39:22

things in theory, but it still doesn't

39:24

the the the challenge

39:25

you'll still have is even though you

39:27

can have these these big, you know, these multiple

39:29

instances,

39:30

there will be one instance

39:31

that becomes the centralized place.

39:34

Just like with anything else, there will be

39:36

a centralized hub.

39:37

There has to be. Right? So I mean, same

39:39

thing with, like, with Bitcoin. Right? Like, Coinbase

39:41

and and and financing. always happens.

39:43

always RNNFTs, it was Open Sea. It

39:45

always happens.

39:46

And so the problem with that is that

39:49

once something becomes the de facto

39:50

home or the largest place, you still

39:52

face same challenges that you would face it with Twitter.

39:55

Right?

39:55

With how do we moderate? How do we enforce

39:57

things? How do we grow? How do we, like,

39:59

you know, keep different

39:59

opinions

40:02

without, you know, allowing harassment. It's

40:04

it's Do we have to have somewhere like that?

40:07

Do we need a what do they call it? The public

40:09

square? do

40:10

I don't know if Twitter's the public score.

40:12

It's close to the thing of the public score, I guess, we have.

40:14

We used to have Walter Cronkite. Right?

40:16

We have to see three times. There was

40:18

there there you know, everybody watched

40:20

the same TV show. So there was a certain

40:24

community within the US. And is

40:26

certain hedgime too. Right? Yeah. Well,

40:28

it was bad because, you know, obviously, it was the

40:30

it was c b you know, if you watch Walter Kroger,

40:32

he know, famously was the

40:34

guy who entered the Vietnam War because he

40:37

lost faith in president

40:39

Johnson's plans in Vietnam

40:41

and he set it on his broadcast and that

40:43

was that. Uncle Walter said it's a bad

40:45

idea. Everybody changed their mind.

40:48

Protests had gone on for years.

40:51

I marched to them. It was a big deal --

40:53

Mhmm. -- didn't change America until

40:55

uncle Walter sets up. We don't have that

40:57

anymore. Right.

40:58

We

40:59

don't have a central

41:01

place. Do we need one?

41:05

I'm I I am torn

41:09

because, obviously, I I dislike

41:11

the idea of any particular

41:15

organization like holding the keys

41:17

to America's psyche. On the

41:19

other hand, what we have seen over the Internet,

41:22

over the last ten years or so is

41:24

just a fracturing into different realities

41:26

where you can completely curate what

41:29

you believe and

41:31

ignore curate.

41:34

Careate the facts that you're ingesting. And

41:37

I I really I don't have any, like, anything

41:39

positive to say about that. I don't really see

41:41

You think those are now That's

41:43

as a result of this lack of centrality

41:46

that now we've got Q and ON believers

41:48

and there's no no But then

41:49

who who gets to decide with the central Central

41:51

reality is. Well, yeah. He didn't wanna I mean, it

41:53

was a big corporation that decided that. That's

41:55

obviously not Yeah. Maybe he's gonna be guy

41:57

like Elon Musk that's gonna decide that that's

42:00

Is Walter Tonkite still alive, and if

42:02

not, could we resurrect him? Yeah. Let's

42:04

think about that. I could do a pretty

42:06

good Walter Cronkite. Maybe we all

42:08

do this. Okay. Whoa. Walter Cronkite

42:10

Deep fake. I just fixed America.

42:12

Oh my gosh. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome.

42:15

You understand, though, that's why a certain generation

42:17

is terrified of TikTok. because they're

42:19

afraid that TikTok could become

42:22

that centrality, that our beliefs could

42:24

come from TikTok.

42:26

Absolutely. I completely agree. I

42:28

I think we have a TikTok

42:29

story today that we're gonna talk about, but

42:32

okay.

42:32

So I there's phrase

42:35

that flies around on

42:36

the Internet now, which is, like, our our

42:38

parents were radicalized by Fox News,

42:40

Gen Z is being radicalized by TikTok. And

42:42

I think in in some ways, that's true. I like

42:45

TikTok as a platform. I think there's a lot of good

42:47

stuff on TikTok, but it's true that there

42:49

are large parts of the population that

42:51

are getting news and

42:54

of

42:54

other recommendations

42:56

from TikTok and from people who are

42:58

incentivized to make the loudest and

43:00

most divisive content possible. And

43:02

No. This is another

43:03

problem because I don't have an answer to Is

43:05

it the Chinese Communist Party, though, that's

43:07

doing that well?

43:08

No. It's not it's the call is coming

43:10

from inside the Oh, exactly. It's come for

43:12

the problem.

43:13

Love you. I

43:17

I don't necessarily agree with that. I mean,

43:19

I think if you wanna zoom out and look at this

43:21

issue from thirty thousand feet. Yet,

43:23

we are in a global information

43:26

war that's taking place every single second

43:28

of every single day. and we

43:30

are losing that war. Those are four

43:33

billion we meaning democracy.

43:35

Like, it is so The incentives

43:38

on social media is exactly as

43:40

profitable for Facebook and Twitter

43:43

and Reddit and YouTube to

43:45

pump out false information as

43:47

it is true information. There's nothing weird

43:50

to fact check it. And because of that,

43:52

you have these you you have strongmen

43:54

all around the world that are weaponizing

43:57

these incentives and our ideals against

43:59

us. I mean, yeah, democracies fundamentally

44:02

depend on a free flow of information

44:04

so people can make decision. We

44:06

have so much garbage in the zone

44:08

today because of,

44:10

you know, what are essentially information weapons

44:13

fact? countries that I mean, this is why it's

44:15

not just the United States struggling with this.

44:17

Point to a democracy. We're all

44:19

struggling with this. And I

44:21

think I mean, I've been saying this for

44:23

years. Christina, I disagree on it, but

44:26

I think you've got to aggressively regulate

44:28

social media. I think there's got to be

44:31

some question at some point. Is this good

44:33

for national unity? Is it good for democracy?

44:36

But isn't that what do you start turns you're

44:38

doing is regulating. So And that's exactly

44:40

it. In their countries Because we're the way

44:42

to the regulation we like isn't

44:44

going to align with the regulation that another

44:47

administration might like even in our own country.

44:49

Like, that that's that's my theory with that. I don't

44:51

know what answer is. I I understand the

44:53

conflict. And

44:54

you're right. The only ways we as a society

44:57

have of exerting our will

44:59

is through government and law. But

45:02

That seems to Brianna,

45:04

III think it feels like it's failed.

45:07

And and it's in

45:09

the process of falling apart. And and so

45:12

you can't be sure which government, you

45:15

know, is gonna is gonna do that.

45:17

And as a result, I mean,

45:19

I don't think the corporation should do it either. No.

45:21

I

45:22

I don't know if there's an answer.

45:24

That's the problem. I've got it thrown off to the Internet.

45:26

agree with this necessarily, but

45:28

Scott Galloway had a really interesting

45:30

piece out last week. I'm not made of I'm

45:33

not mad at all. Let me check his mascot

45:35

account here real quick. So he was

45:37

talking about how one of ways

45:39

we've we've combated, you know, the

45:41

financing of terrorism around the

45:43

world is through know your customer

45:45

loss. And he was talking about

45:47

how maybe it's time for social media

45:50

companies to know their customer. not

45:52

saying you have to use your real name. It's

45:54

not saying they're gonna out you. It's saying that

45:56

there's some check along the way --

45:58

Yeah. -- to make sure that you're a real authentic

46:00

person there. I'm I'm interested

46:03

in that idea. Interesting. III

46:05

don't agree with this this premise that,

46:07

look, it's complicated, it's difficult for

46:09

free speech Anyone that understands this

46:11

issue agrees with that. But I don't

46:14

agree that the best course, the wisest

46:16

course of actions continue doing nothing.

46:18

we are neft if we stay in this course,

46:21

and we've got to try something. That's fair

46:23

as well. But

46:24

a a real name's policy isn't

46:26

gonna to everything.

46:28

Not real name. Know your know your

46:30

customers. So making sure that there is

46:32

a real person behind that

46:34

account. Okay. At some point. Right.

46:36

We do that on our socials.

46:39

We allow handles. Mhmm.

46:41

But mean,

46:43

and I don't go out and verify people, but we kinda

46:46

pay attention to who they are and what where

46:48

you come from and stuff. So we know there's a real person

46:51

I don't I'm not against bots, by the way. I have bots

46:53

on Twitter. Yeah. I think bots can have value.

46:55

Right? Like like, there's a difference between spam,

46:58

which is really what he's talking about. and

47:00

and and bots, which can't have a specific

47:02

purpose. And influence bots, which are

47:04

created by Russian toll farms, for instance.

47:07

Fair. Fair right. There are thousands of

47:09

accounts created by -- Yes. --

47:11

they

47:11

don't I don't think Elon cares about those

47:13

at all. Oh, he doesn't care about those. He cares

47:15

about are the spam ones. that are making,

47:17

you know, things unpleasant for him.

47:20

Bam's easy to get rid of.

47:22

It's

47:22

not it's not illegal. Right. you don't

47:24

do it by law, but if I mean, I filter

47:26

spam on our Mastodon account. If I see spam,

47:28

like, I I cancel

47:30

the person. very happily. Don't mean

47:33

Oh my god. Leah La Porte

47:34

pro cancel that shirt. I

47:37

chose them very importantly. Alright.

47:39

Let's take a little break. This is fun.

47:42

I'm this is better than being

47:44

on rocket. This is with rocket. It

47:46

is it is rocket meets twit.

47:49

Simone to Roche four, Brianna Wu, Christina

47:51

Warren, in the house. I got something you're gonna want.

47:53

That's This

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is an advertiser called on

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I'm a little weird, but this is the kind of thing that gets

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it's so cool. 00I could think

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51:51

by the way, by using that address. So make sure you do it

51:53

onlogic dot com slash

51:56

tweet enough Twitter.

51:59

Yeah.

52:01

Never. Right? Mhmm. Never. Never. Never.

52:03

Never. We want more Twitter. No.

52:05

I think we're yeah. We

52:06

Twitter out. We might be. I mean, especially

52:09

now that he's all the Twitter

52:11

is right now is just everyone changing their

52:13

handle to Elon Musk since he said that he's gonna

52:15

ban impersonation. Oh, you is it now a

52:17

spreading? Yes. Oh. It's

52:20

it's it's very long. Yeah. How

52:22

how k. Let's

52:23

take some bets. How long before you start feeling sorry

52:26

for poor Elmo?

52:27

Never. Never. He's

52:29

a billionaire. Never.

52:33

if I wasn't feeling bored Do you think I would

52:35

ever sleep

52:36

ever? I mean, I'd be on a spaceship

52:39

to Mars every every weekend.

52:41

So here's this thing. I think We

52:45

underestimate how much fame and fortune

52:48

disturbs the human mind. Mhmm.

52:51

But we've got lots of evidence of it. We

52:53

do. You know,

52:55

there's like very few exceptions. Taylor Swift

52:57

is an exception. It's she seems like a real

52:59

great normal person who survived her

53:01

fame. But then for every Taylor Swift, there's

53:04

Justin Bieber or a Madonna or, you

53:06

know, on and on and on, poor

53:08

lady Gaga, I'm sure driven mad

53:11

by her fame and fortune. It's just not

53:13

a natural thing. And I think very few people in the

53:15

three comma club have

53:17

survived that. Yeah.

53:19

It has to be hard when you have so

53:22

many people who want things from you and are

53:24

willing to tell you so many things want

53:26

to hear and you're treated so differently.

53:29

and He thinks

53:31

he's a many billionaires and

53:33

Elon's in this group think they're a genius because they're

53:35

a billionaire. Right.

53:36

Mhmm. Mhmm. Well, he is a very smart

53:38

guy, but there are smart people as I think we've

53:41

all probably experienced this to overestimate

53:43

intelligence and think that because I'm very smart about

53:45

one thing, that means that I know everything about

53:47

everything. That the Dunning Krueger effect?

53:49

Yeah. think so. where you

53:51

think you should I saw a study in I

53:53

saw a study in Harvard Business Review that

53:55

I always think of when this comes up,

53:57

said they looked at the the ultra wealthy

53:59

and what happens to

54:02

your brain when, like, the physical

54:04

concerns of the world are no longer

54:06

something you have to stress on it. You're at the

54:08

top of Maslov's pyramid. So --

54:10

A hundred percent. -- life is great. You're gonna

54:12

self actuate by becoming

54:14

an edge lord.

54:16

Yeah. Well, what they found

54:19

is in all of these cases or

54:21

many of these cases, the very

54:23

skills that made you successful in

54:25

the first place, like ability to read

54:27

people the ability to understand

54:29

people, the ability to sense discomfort, you

54:32

know, the skills that, like, help you,

54:35

like, get a footing in life. become associate.

54:37

Those become eroded a hundred

54:39

percent. Oh, nice. You're you're

54:41

unable to sense people's emotions

54:43

and you become narcissist at the

54:45

same time. Yeah. You no longer have

54:48

sympathy. Yeah.

54:49

I would simply buy a Formula One team.

54:51

Yeah. You would. And now

54:53

now would you try to run the team Simone?

54:56

No. It's the question. Well, depends on how rich

54:58

I am. Right?

54:58

I should hang out in the pit. I know you would.

55:00

Yeah. You would. But if

55:01

you're rich enough to own the team and you're rich

55:03

enough to, like, buy it, would you then go to the place

55:05

where you're, like, well, I'm going to run this the way I want,

55:07

or do you hire someone else and trust me? Let's

55:09

do it. That's the thing. I start off

55:12

hiring someone to run it myself, but as I become

55:14

more and more wealthy -- Yes. -- my ability

55:16

to discern the truth erodes, and then

55:18

I say, I'm gonna run the team. Right.

55:21

So so we can get your problem later. Yeah. I

55:23

am the problem. Yeah. Absolutely. You think that's

55:25

what happened to Toda?

55:26

No. Oh

55:28

my god. Don't live in slander.

55:31

Don't a wolf in front of me. I'm

55:34

sorry. I just yelled. I

55:36

think I've No. I think a

55:39

little bit. little time on this. Yeah. I think

55:41

he broke. Mercedes problems this year,

55:43

I think

55:43

are entirely the results of

55:45

some of their engineers not,

55:48

like, having the time to work on the car, and

55:50

then also the decreased aero time.

55:52

So I I think they're gonna come twenty

55:54

twenty three with a

55:55

good car. What happened to Ferrari though?

55:57

Oh,

56:00

what hasn't happened? I don't that's just

56:02

being Italian. Now I'm playing with the crowd, aren't

56:04

I? I'm, like, I'm, like, winding her up. You are.

56:06

This is so good. I'm enjoying

56:08

this sign. I

56:11

think

56:11

those those that knowledge of f one

56:13

could come in handy later, Leo.

56:15

Oh, okay. You understand him?

56:17

Yeah. When do you wanna do whatever this

56:19

thing is that you're gonna do? I'm ready for it now.

56:21

If you are Let's get there. for

56:23

after the next break. How about that? Alright. because I have

56:26

a few more things to talk about.

56:28

Damn. Oh, yeah. Did you,

56:31

by the way, okay, who's an expert in legal

56:33

legends? Not me, unfortunately,

56:36

but I'm ready to talk about it. You guys are

56:38

are gamers. So I know you you know so

56:40

the big event was here in San Francisco, the

56:42

Chase Center what do they call it? The

56:44

world The world's I don't know. They have a

56:46

special name for it. Worlds.

56:48

Just worlds. That's all. Just worlds. Okay.

56:50

Currently, Bernido is a LOL

56:52

fan. Did

56:55

you oh, this is your beat? Yeah. because

56:57

you were a you were a twitch. Right? So

57:00

I'm very fascinated by eSports. partly

57:03

because

57:05

the

57:06

my generation I'm an old man.

57:08

My generation know, we're the Walter

57:11

Crockett generation. We watched

57:13

baseball for crying out loud before

57:15

it was broken. Yeah. don't know. I think it was

57:18

always that way. It was just it's very slow.

57:21

I think that

57:23

there's a whole generation under thirty.

57:26

that doesn't know or care anything

57:29

about nightly news --

57:31

Yes. -- or or Even

57:34

the NFL or f one, this

57:36

generation is much more interested in

57:38

YouTube -- Mhmm. -- and Twitch and TikTok.

57:41

And I think esports is very,

57:43

very interesting. And I think many, many

57:45

networks, the worlds were sponsored

57:47

by Mastercard. The

57:52

the big event was at Chase Center, which

57:54

is a massive it's where the warriors

57:57

play. I think twenty or thirty thousand

58:00

people there. Benito,

58:02

did you watch the the opening

58:04

ceremony? Would oh,

58:07

my god. I had not Now

58:09

apparently, they do this every year. There

58:12

was a big deal because they

58:15

hadn't been able to gather in person. Right.

58:18

-- for a couple of years. Right. Which which

58:20

is what was that's what's the hypothesis? Or

58:23

am I gonna get in trouble? Oh,

58:25

go ahead. You can edit it out later.

58:30

So John, this is where we saw Roger Waters

58:32

just a a month ago. So we know

58:34

the kind of arena. They did the similar thing they

58:36

had, I'll turn off the audio, but except

58:38

the audio is kind of the fun part. I don't know.

58:41

that so this is a giant arena. Yep.

58:44

They have a screen that is

58:46

covering up hiding where the gaming is

58:48

gonna occur. They're

58:50

doing a countdown.

58:54

They have three major celebrities to

58:56

sing the song at the end. Little Nasdaq shows

58:59

up. Of course. And then

59:02

flies out of the arena. In

59:05

the palm of hand of a giant mech,

59:09

I mean, this is

59:12

Like

59:12

the Olympics opening ceremony

59:14

-- Totally. -- with I

59:16

saw the stats. I mean, they have something like

59:18

a forty, thirty K projectors.

59:21

They have hundreds of cameras. They

59:24

have holographic projection. They

59:26

have a real live musical

59:28

audience. I mean, a musical orchestra. This

59:31

is a big deal. Mhmm. And it kinda

59:33

blew me away when I I'll skip ahead a little

59:35

bit. they've got dancers.

59:38

Yeah. No. It's a whole thing. Wait a little Wait a

59:40

little the team is the teams are gonna show up, which

59:42

is hysterical because this funny thing

59:44

is he's got there's still six absolute

59:46

nerds. Right. Right. I

59:49

think the team rises up out of the stage

59:52

here.

59:52

and and shows up. Let me let

59:54

me scoop scoop your head a little bit to the

59:58

I don't

59:58

know. Maybe I've maybe I've gone

59:59

past it. Yo. Here they are. Here's the nerds.

1:00:04

And what they're trying to do obviously is

1:00:07

turn these guys who have probably very

1:00:09

little social accumen into

1:00:12

but but probably the f one drivers are equally

1:00:15

nerdy. Actually, though, I would push back on that a little

1:00:17

bit. Some of these streamers of

1:00:18

these esports guys have. They're pretty sharp.

1:00:20

And

1:00:20

and they're on twitch all the time. They have personalities.

1:00:23

Yeah. And they they'll transform themselves, not all

1:00:25

of them, but but many of them and many

1:00:26

of those teams similar to the way that,

1:00:28

like, you have the one kind of charismatic, you

1:00:30

know, f one, you know, maybe, you know Yeah.

1:00:32

You don't get to be an f one driver unless besides

1:00:35

being the brake driver. You have your

1:00:37

gorgeous.

1:00:38

You're gorgeous. Come on. You have daddy's

1:00:40

money. or or you're Lando

1:00:42

Norris. But if but it doesn't But

1:00:45

because

1:00:45

the brand has to be built behind you. Right? Because this

1:00:47

is this is more than just, like, it you

1:00:49

know, the same with any court. sort

1:00:50

of sports. Right? Like, you you have to have

1:00:52

a total package. Yeah. And I guess, you know, I guess,

1:00:54

you know, I'd watch the world

1:00:56

series and these baseball players were disgusting.

1:00:59

Actually, literally. Who's This

1:01:01

is why baseball is dying. Yeah. I think

1:01:03

so. It's his little Nasdaq singing

1:01:05

a song that he wrote specific specifically for

1:01:07

League of League of Legends worlds. I

1:01:12

should turn this off because this will definitely take it. This

1:01:14

take it down. Let me see if I can go to the rocks.

1:01:16

It's amazing. This

1:01:18

is amazing. There

1:01:19

were five million. I wanna see the Mac. I think

1:01:21

peak viewers,

1:01:22

like, five million peak people were too new.

1:01:24

Oh, yes. One time. They released a new

1:01:27

trophy, which is,

1:01:29

like, when they when they show it for the

1:01:31

first time, the crowd is obviously totally

1:01:33

tuned in. Oh, they go. Oh my god.

1:01:37

Totally tuned in to this. Oh, that's the new trophy.

1:01:41

It it's really kind of I

1:01:43

was blown away. Mhmm. And I but I but

1:01:45

this is a subculture. Right?

1:01:47

Still? Yes. Mhmm.

1:01:49

So this is kind of a continuation of

1:01:51

the of the question earlier. Is there gonna

1:01:54

be an NFL in twenty years?

1:01:56

A a central sport that we all follow?

1:01:58

Or is it gonna be fragmented? Because people who

1:02:00

follow I don't know. What's the what's the

1:02:03

other game? That I mean, DOTA

1:02:05

for each other strike or DOTA. or

1:02:07

Overwatch. Are they caring about League of Legends?

1:02:10

You have to to watch these scary goes. There's

1:02:12

Little Nasdaq's going up into the roof.

1:02:15

on a giant MEK hand, which actually

1:02:17

is just projected on

1:02:19

here. But still,

1:02:21

it's pretty cool. That's

1:02:24

awesome. Very cool. It's pretty cool. It's always

1:02:26

gonna be fragmented in a way.

1:02:28

Gaming is much more fragmented than visited. It

1:02:30

is because you're always gonna have a a

1:02:32

new developer coming out trying to put a product

1:02:35

to market. This is gonna push things forward.

1:02:37

Or just I'm sorry. I have to correct

1:02:39

myself. I slammed Land on Norris.

1:02:41

I meant Lance Strowl, obviously. I

1:02:43

can't Landon Norris also comes from money.

1:02:45

I was surprised that you didn't go to Lance didn't say

1:02:47

Nikita Masipin, but could have been really

1:02:50

good. Yes, ma'am. Please continue.

1:02:52

No. I I was just gonna say, you know,

1:02:55

Colin did him want modern warfare which

1:02:57

is essentially a big dumb movie.

1:03:00

It's like I'm sorry. I was getting a new one. I'm more

1:03:02

for two. The new one. Well, I'm more for two that

1:03:04

we make, reboot, whatever you wanna

1:03:06

call it, That made eight hundred million

1:03:08

dollars last week. That's

1:03:11

the week end game. Level money,

1:03:13

hundred percent. Like, this

1:03:15

is huge business. So if you're looking

1:03:17

at League of Legends, you know, don't

1:03:19

look at this as like a extravagant,

1:03:21

you know, silly thing they're putting on.

1:03:24

This is big business. I can see

1:03:26

people. Yeah. Yeah. Hyped up.

1:03:28

And one of the reasons I spend

1:03:30

so much time speedrunning to the point where

1:03:32

I have

1:03:32

a PBM that I bought.

1:03:35

Nice twenty inches PBM. One

1:03:38

of the reasons I spent so much time speedrunning

1:03:41

is that is exploding is a legitimate

1:03:43

sport. Oh, interesting. Like, I'm trying

1:03:46

first spot with the GDQ Game

1:03:48

Stone Quik, which is the Super Bowl's speed

1:03:50

running very soon. I have an excellent shot

1:03:52

of getting in. So I think all these esports,

1:03:54

it's always gonna be more fragmented than

1:03:57

you know, pick football, baseball, basketball.

1:03:59

Mhmm. It's never gonna be like

1:04:02

that, but there's certainly gonna be these, you

1:04:04

know, towers of of where where

1:04:06

you have real competitors people respect.

1:04:08

Will the NFL be continue

1:04:10

to be dominant in the the next few

1:04:12

decades?

1:04:14

I I would not bet against it. I think

1:04:16

that the NFL has a lot puts

1:04:18

a lot of money into things. There's what's interesting

1:04:20

about the NFL, like, you know, basketball has become a very

1:04:22

international sport. Yep.

1:04:24

the NFL

1:04:25

is trying. Right. They're trying. Right. The

1:04:26

NFL is trying, but it it hasn't really

1:04:28

gone that way and it hasn't had to to

1:04:30

to be frank. but there's still something compelling

1:04:33

about it. I think it depends. I think that if

1:04:35

things aren't handled right, it could fall off, but I

1:04:37

I would not bet against them because they're still

1:04:40

even when you look at the ratings now, which are

1:04:42

down, like, honestly, the

1:04:44

worst thing the NFL could you would probably be to

1:04:46

do more things like the Amazon Prime. you

1:04:48

know, deal I think that was bad for them. I do.

1:04:50

because they I'm sure saw this as a way forward

1:04:52

in the future. I'm sure

1:04:53

they did, and I think they will need to do things like them

1:04:55

in the future, but I think that Siloween the thing

1:04:57

into saying only people who are part of this

1:04:59

can watch. I think that's the problem. I think that

1:05:02

they probably would need to syndicate across So

1:05:04

It was surprising. Like, you have that Amazon

1:05:07

Prime to watch a football game. Exactly.

1:05:08

Which is That's the case.

1:05:10

It's

1:05:11

kinda what we're talking about with Twitter blew

1:05:13

and paying

1:05:13

for a check mark. Like, it's hard to ask somebody

1:05:15

to pay for something that they're used to

1:05:17

see it. So having in a totally different context.

1:05:20

Yeah. Especially when the NFL also offer

1:05:22

Sunday night ticket and and other

1:05:24

sorts of, you know, premium products for people

1:05:26

to get more games if if that's what they want.

1:05:28

to see more things. I think that then when

1:05:30

you say we're going to put this one

1:05:32

game, it used to be it's one thing if it's

1:05:34

on ESPN. Right? or or if

1:05:36

it's on Fox or ABC, you can make

1:05:38

kind of, you know, you you can make the

1:05:40

the calculus there, but then to say, I

1:05:43

have to be on this specific streaming

1:05:45

service.

1:05:45

I don't know. There is a little struggle going on right

1:05:48

now between Apple and the NFL. Apple

1:05:50

wanted the Sunday ticket, which is

1:05:52

a thing DIRECTV, currently has.

1:05:54

Yes. a billion and a half dollars they spent

1:05:56

for this. They lost their shirt on it, by the way. They didn't

1:05:58

make any money. So they said, we're not gonna we're not gonna

1:06:00

bid for this again. Apple,

1:06:03

Google,

1:06:04

Amazon all have deep pockets from other

1:06:06

sources so they can afford to spend a billion

1:06:08

and a half a year or two billion a year

1:06:10

on this thing, which is us basically, it's

1:06:13

the Sunday games. Yep. What so

1:06:15

you can watch any games? Yes. Unless

1:06:17

it's in your markets, like, there are couple of Another

1:06:20

thing after that screws itself. Yes. And

1:06:22

now that they have a streaming app and that's a plus And

1:06:24

now

1:06:24

I think that's where maybe you could get better. I

1:06:26

mean, that's gonna come down to certain broadcast

1:06:28

licensing things, but that those are things

1:06:30

they'll need to overcome. think if they wanna survive in

1:06:32

the decades will be to to get out

1:06:34

of their own way. They could mess it up. They could mess

1:06:37

it up. if they fix that,

1:06:39

I don't think that I think I think that the game

1:06:41

is compelling enough and has the long large enough

1:06:43

of fan base that

1:06:45

people would continue to be into football. The battle

1:06:47

between NFL and Apple is rumored to

1:06:49

be, and we don't know exactly what's going on.

1:06:51

Certainly apples offered them as much money as they could

1:06:53

ever dream of. But the battle apparently,

1:06:56

according to sources, is

1:06:59

that the NFL doesn't wanna give up control.

1:07:01

Apple wants to be able to do more -- Correct.

1:07:03

-- and interesting things as they should.

1:07:05

Right? Their technology company they wanna

1:07:07

play with streaming. This could be very good for Apple

1:07:09

TV plus. And the NFL says,

1:07:12

well, I don't know that. I don't know that. And

1:07:13

the NFL is going, wait, this is our Right? So

1:07:15

you have two you have two control freak organizations

1:07:17

going head to head with one another. And So

1:07:20

Major League soccer said Apple do whatever you Oh,

1:07:22

the Major League Soccer and and baseball is bakes.

1:07:24

Nobody watches right here. But football

1:07:26

and and part of the reason you could argue that the

1:07:28

NFL has been so dominant in American

1:07:31

sports over the last thirty years is because the

1:07:33

league has had

1:07:33

so much control -- Right. -- over everything. -- but, you

1:07:35

know, golf used to be big. Golf

1:07:38

used to be the biggest thing, growing thing is gone.

1:07:40

But but I have to say after watching the

1:07:42

world series, I don't have much hope that

1:07:44

Major League Baseball has much future.

1:07:46

But, you know, but really, Formula one,

1:07:48

Formula one is is doing great as

1:07:50

well. has had a massive resurgence. I'll

1:07:53

I'll ask Simone this who waved the

1:07:55

Checker flag in Austin.

1:07:57

Tim Timothy Cook.

1:07:59

Tim

1:07:59

Cook, mister

1:08:00

Tim I'm watching

1:08:02

Croftie. So badly. play by play

1:08:04

on ESPN. It's lights out

1:08:06

in Austin, and then there's a picture

1:08:09

of Ed Sheerin talking to somebody

1:08:11

from f one. Is Ed Sheerin talking

1:08:13

to somebody from one? but he didn't know that standing

1:08:15

in between them was Eddie Q. I'm

1:08:17

going, yeah. And Oh, no.

1:08:20

And they didn't know. But

1:08:22

Apple was there in force, and I don't think Apple

1:08:24

was there by accident. No. It

1:08:26

was the same day ESPN announced

1:08:28

that maybe they do have a documentary

1:08:31

coming Apple TV plus I think Apple was also

1:08:33

saying We we we could help

1:08:35

you guys. We could hundred percent. We

1:08:37

could do something with this. And I mean and I It's

1:08:39

a very technical sport.

1:08:40

It is a very technical sport. It'd be a lot of

1:08:42

great things you could do with that and

1:08:44

think that look, the reason that it has taken

1:08:47

off in popularity is because of Netflix and

1:08:49

because of ways that that other people could come

1:08:51

into understanding the backstories. and get

1:08:53

into it because this was something that I was only

1:08:56

tangible. just made f one, didn't it? For

1:08:58

for if I think for sergeant Secretary of America.

1:09:00

In America. because my husband is a huge formula

1:09:02

one fan and has been our whole relationship. And

1:09:04

I it's so funny to me that now it's like this

1:09:06

thing that everyone

1:09:07

like The drive to survive. Because

1:09:09

it was this thing that I used to just sort of, like

1:09:12

-- Yeah. -- one year come in one year go out the

1:09:14

other that he would talk about. That's how you get people

1:09:16

interested in sport is you talk about the humans -- Yes.

1:09:18

-- get the narrative. -- drama -- Mhmm. --

1:09:21

which is one thing that, like, NFL films used

1:09:23

to do really well. And and that a lot of the things

1:09:25

that they would they got so much free air

1:09:27

time on the, you know, whatever network

1:09:30

had relationships with that people would get

1:09:32

sucked into the stories. Right? And that's the same

1:09:34

with college football as well. People

1:09:36

get into the narratives behind the players.

1:09:39

and and that carries them through. You

1:09:41

know? Do you

1:09:43

think women need that more than men?

1:09:45

No.

1:09:45

I think that it's Everybody No. We They're

1:09:47

trying to do that with the Olympics. and it's kind

1:09:49

of a flop. Right? This

1:09:50

the the the story behind those.

1:09:52

It won't be all because

1:09:53

the problem with the Olympics is it's every four years.

1:09:56

So it's

1:09:56

hard to get really consistent. follow-up.

1:09:58

Right. Whereas with teams,

1:09:59

you you got this week by week thing,

1:10:02

but no, it's not just women thing, men. I mean,

1:10:04

look, wrestling. is is so

1:10:06

incredibly popular. Is this soap opera?

1:10:08

Yes. It's incredibly popular. It's a soap

1:10:10

opera and it's almost exclusively men. Right?

1:10:12

Like, it's just It's the exact same

1:10:13

thing. I know a lot of women in the it's the

1:10:16

perfect time in WWE. Yeah. But

1:10:18

it's mostly men. It's mostly men? It's mostly men.

1:10:21

Okay.

1:10:21

I'm interested going back to the question

1:10:24

of riot and leak of legends. I

1:10:26

I feel the the comparison

1:10:28

of the NFL is interesting because I feel like

1:10:31

whatever form e sports takes

1:10:33

if it becomes massively popular like that.

1:10:35

I mean, it is already massively popular, but I don't

1:10:37

think it will be popular in the same

1:10:39

format that football is. think

1:10:42

that we have to envision

1:10:45

a new way for these sports to

1:10:47

be consumed, and riot is

1:10:50

really

1:10:50

doing a good job with making a game that

1:10:52

is -- I was completely inscrutable. Yeah.

1:10:56

Interesting. Yeah. I watched some of the gameplay after

1:10:58

I watched that open. What

1:10:59

the hell is going on?

1:11:01

This is what I'm really curious about this because

1:11:05

Yeah. Five million of

1:11:07

yours, you said, Christian. Five footland You know, concurrent.

1:11:09

Concurrent. Was that just for

1:11:11

the opening ceremony. See, how much of the spectacle

1:11:13

do they put into it? See, and and that's a

1:11:15

great question. because I have a similar question with that, which

1:11:18

is you wonder, like, how much of the spectacle do they

1:11:20

put into it? Because then why in the actual gameplay

1:11:22

stuff can be Well, if you know what's going

1:11:24

on, I'm sure it's very exciting. But

1:11:25

but if you're brought in by other things, how do you even

1:11:28

like like if you watch

1:11:30

traditional sport, it

1:11:31

can be complicated, but you can at least know

1:11:34

sort of what's happening.

1:11:35

I know I've watched the play by

1:11:37

play on League of Legends for about a decade

1:11:40

because it's gotten very professional by the

1:11:42

way. It is The announcer's --

1:11:45

Are there a race? -- hundred times better.

1:11:47

They are as good now as major league sports

1:11:49

announcer. They add excitement. They

1:11:51

know what they're talking about. They

1:11:55

they sound like something exciting is happening even

1:11:57

though it just looks like, I don't know what. And so

1:12:00

so they've improved that.

1:12:02

I noticed they don't cut away to the player's faces

1:12:04

very often anymore. They all have cameras,

1:12:07

but they don't show the players because most of players

1:12:09

are going

1:12:11

Yeah. Nobody makes a good face because

1:12:13

they're gaming. It's hard to train. They're all focused.

1:12:16

Yeah. It's

1:12:17

like chess happening really fast.

1:12:19

And -- Yeah. -- I mean, clearly, these guys are

1:12:21

amazing. I can tell that. Mhmm.

1:12:25

And and the nurses have done a good job, I

1:12:27

think. So I do think they're improving a

1:12:29

lot. I I'm very inter the

1:12:31

only problem is if you're a league of legends

1:12:33

fan, then you're not a dodo fan. And

1:12:35

if you're a dodo fan, then you're

1:12:37

not a, you know, overcome But do we

1:12:39

need to be? Because clearly, like,

1:12:42

there are huge audiences. There's enough

1:12:44

games. Yeah.

1:12:45

They're all successful in their own

1:12:47

way. I would say

1:12:49

riot, what they've done really

1:12:51

well is they have, like, arcane, the animated

1:12:54

series that's on Netflix.

1:12:54

It's a League of Legends show. That's interesting.

1:12:57

They have this isn't created by them, but

1:12:59

the American Vanderbilt creators have a

1:13:01

series called players, which is about an

1:13:03

a League Legends team, a eSports team

1:13:06

that's like a parody. Yeah. And

1:13:08

riot, I I signed

1:13:09

off on that, you know, it's not like a legal

1:13:11

agent show. But Do you think they wanted to be finding

1:13:14

these different venues to make it accessible?

1:13:17

think that'd be very interesting. I'd be I

1:13:19

mean, because these guys, like, they they live in houses

1:13:21

and train together. It's like k pop essentially,

1:13:23

like, where they're living in a dorm. I

1:13:26

understand there's probably reasons they wouldn't wanna

1:13:28

televise that because I don't think it's a great standard

1:13:30

of living. So

1:13:31

I'm those picking going on

1:13:32

and picking that not only that, I think

1:13:34

it's it's there's there's

1:13:36

a line between the story that

1:13:38

you wanna kind of shave with the narrative and then the reality

1:13:41

which could

1:13:41

be very exploitative and where you see how hard

1:13:43

it is. And this would be true for a lot of

1:13:45

sports. Right? I think you wouldn't wanna

1:13:47

necessarily see everything that goes into I think

1:13:50

drive to survive as successful as it was

1:13:52

somebody and then most in our chatroom said,

1:13:54

I've been a fan thirty years. Most real f

1:13:56

one fans hate drive to survive. III

1:13:58

do. That's true.

1:13:59

That's actually

1:13:59

not what I've heard from long enough fans at all.

1:14:02

I think Well, if you're a fan, you

1:14:04

should say this is good for this That's

1:14:05

actually that's exactly what my and said. And and and

1:14:07

he's been into it since he was a kid. There's

1:14:10

two two facets to this. One is that

1:14:13

the way in which Drive to Survive is

1:14:15

edited there's some inaccuracies

1:14:17

that create true with, like, the order the

1:14:20

the order they play radio messages

1:14:21

like things like that. Yeah. That

1:14:23

being said, I do completely agree with

1:14:26

Grant, Christina, that, like, it is

1:14:28

the most effective onboarding tool

1:14:30

for a sport that is very technical. And

1:14:33

it does allow people to understand what

1:14:36

it's about and then to go on and learn

1:14:38

for themselves. Like, why I care about

1:14:40

freaking tire compounds and why that's

1:14:42

something they never talk about and drive to survive.

1:14:44

But once you start watching the sport

1:14:46

after being onboarded in

1:14:48

this very gentle way, Right. You learn about

1:14:50

these things. They should never have been seen you.

1:14:52

drive on those hearts because it

1:14:54

really hurt his ability. I think it We're

1:14:56

ladies will never learn not to happen

1:14:58

so much.

1:15:00

I will they will die on that

1:15:02

hill. I will die on feel like I

1:15:04

was even Lewis was very happy about the

1:15:06

whole thing. You know what I mean? I love it when he gets on

1:15:08

the races. He's got me on the wrong tires, mate.

1:15:10

But then they said it, like, in the

1:15:12

the

1:15:13

videos that the engineers do after

1:15:15

where they're going through and answering questions. They're like,

1:15:17

yeah, we messed up. We should

1:15:19

have listened to George. Oh, yeah.

1:15:22

I I knew you were an f one fan, so I've I've

1:15:24

got some crib notes that had somebody write down

1:15:26

some lines. You

1:15:27

know, I dispute. I don't know about the popularity of

1:15:29

it because my tweets don't get much engagement. Where

1:15:31

are you all? Engage with me.

1:15:34

I tweeted about soup and fifty

1:15:36

people are like, queen,

1:15:37

yes. Everybody understands soup.

1:15:40

There's no, you know,

1:15:42

Tweet about hard tires. It's silence

1:15:44

out there. Yeah. Yeah. That's

1:15:46

I think that's probably a good lesson that

1:15:48

Twitter just forces you to tweet about

1:15:51

soup. Yeah. And and we

1:15:53

need to

1:15:53

discuss that. Like, the suit bias

1:15:55

on

1:15:55

the app. Huge bias. Huge bias. Huge

1:15:58

bias. The Skol Steiner. Yeah.

1:15:59

You

1:16:00

talk about I have to say Everybody's

1:16:02

interested. Sorry. Go ahead, Brianna. No.

1:16:04

It's just gonna say your garlic soup recipe

1:16:07

nearly kill me so much. She put out

1:16:09

this recipe. On life of garlic,

1:16:11

it's just like soak eighty bulbs

1:16:13

of garlic and olive oil and

1:16:15

and and doing anything else. Seventeen

1:16:18

sticks of butter. And I tried it.

1:16:20

And I was like, I am literally I

1:16:22

am I am not in my twenties.

1:16:24

I will die if I keep trying this.

1:16:27

The Spitten Kitchen forty four

1:16:29

Club Darling

1:16:30

Soup Is there anything

1:16:32

else in it? Is there anything else in it?

1:16:34

don't remember, actually.

1:16:37

I I think, like, maybe potatoes -- It wouldn't

1:16:39

matter. -- is it, like, broth? Yeah. -- garlic, butter,

1:16:42

olive oil. It's perfect.

1:16:45

It's so healing. Your entire nose will

1:16:47

be emptied out. Very few people could eat that,

1:16:49

I think. and

1:16:49

five. I would take a little

1:16:52

break. Then after the break, we're gonna do something

1:16:54

that Brianna's been preparing. I don't know what it is.

1:16:57

I haven't Oh, dear. Oh, dear. open up your

1:16:59

badge. And then, yeah,

1:17:01

we've got an exclusive Mhmm. --

1:17:03

because of the GitHub event coming up,

1:17:05

I have got my GitHub

1:17:08

badge, a hackable programmable badge.

1:17:12

Wow. Martin, you created this for this

1:17:14

is kind of in the deaf con style where you have

1:17:16

a a badge that is more than just

1:17:18

a piece of plastic with your name. Can't

1:17:20

wait to find out what's in this. That's exciting.

1:17:23

Thank

1:17:23

you for bringing me this. We'll

1:17:25

show you this in a little bit. But

1:17:27

first, I wanna show you something else. My

1:17:30

rocket money, have you you you guys

1:17:32

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1:17:40

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How many times have I, you know, found a

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1:21:13

Brianna's

1:21:14

been planning something. Is

1:21:16

it a quiz? I'm gathering it's a quiz.

1:21:18

Yeah? It's okay. So

1:21:21

Look, if you had Kelly Clarkson

1:21:24

and Reuben Stoddart in the same

1:21:26

building He was Rob. You in the way I

1:21:28

was telling him, Yeah.

1:21:30

Number one. Oh, okay. Okay. Never mind.

1:21:33

I thought he got came in second. No. Clay Aiken

1:21:35

came in second. Oh, Clayiken. Right. He was not

1:21:37

out. Cancer on problems. We'll

1:21:39

talk to them later. Okay. So

1:21:42

That was, like, season two. That was season two.

1:21:44

Yeah.

1:21:45

We have Leo,

1:21:47

you're one of the most prestigious, like

1:21:50

respected long time journalist

1:21:52

in the entire tech industry. And

1:21:55

we have Christina Warren here

1:21:57

who is the t eight hundred of

1:21:59

technology a truly terrifying

1:22:02

competitor for anything. Anything.

1:22:05

It doesn't matter what you're doing. You

1:22:07

know, you know, if I figure if you have the

1:22:09

best of the best, what does Rocket

1:22:12

do? We put together an impromptu

1:22:15

game show. each other, go. Uh-oh.

1:22:18

So we talked to your producers ahead

1:22:20

of time. I'm gonna have to figure

1:22:22

this on out. You're like a

1:22:24

Japanese clicker. So so do

1:22:26

you want the good news or the bad news

1:22:28

first, Leo? What do

1:22:30

you say? IIII could think we have to hear the

1:22:32

the bad news. always start with the bad news. Yeah.

1:22:34

Okay.

1:22:35

So the bad news is the loser

1:22:37

of this contest is going to get

1:22:39

a pie in the face, pie.

1:22:43

the winner is going to put a pie

1:22:45

in your face. Your team checked it.

1:22:47

They made sure that you've got all the equipment

1:22:49

there. Oh, yes.

1:22:52

Oh, my god. Jason Hall is actually

1:22:54

filling the pie now. That's from creamy

1:22:57

delicious. They're very hot. We're cream. Takes

1:22:59

a very Okay. More.

1:23:02

More. More. Wait a minute. There's more. Get

1:23:04

some cherries on there. Oh,

1:23:08

beautiful. Is that a green scary.

1:23:11

It's a mario. It's a mario.

1:23:13

It was all I had. Okay. There.

1:23:16

This was a hundred percent my idea. Don't

1:23:18

blame your staff. This was on me. The

1:23:20

good news is

1:23:22

the winner of this is going

1:23:24

to at a lovely original

1:23:27

artwork by Frank Blue --

1:23:29

Oh, wow. -- rejuvenating them -- Oh, I

1:23:31

won the very first can we bring that out?

1:23:34

It is a certificates printed on

1:23:36

your office printer. Oh, wow. That's

1:23:38

awesome. very cool. Oh,

1:23:40

this is this is it. Oh, great gentleman.

1:23:43

There we go. This is so wonderful. rocket

1:23:46

x twitch showdown. Oh my god.

1:23:48

So Ray told me every one of

1:23:50

these creatures he drew on here represents one

1:23:52

of us. The singing dinosaur

1:23:55

is, of course, Simone. And

1:23:57

Christina is the deputy tank at the bottom

1:23:59

because

1:23:59

she is deputy

1:24:00

to avoid shoulder shut is

1:24:02

over here now. There we go. Leo,

1:24:05

you're the you're the double guitar, and

1:24:07

I am the centipede because I

1:24:09

work in politics. That is awesome.

1:24:13

You work in politics so you have many legs?

1:24:16

That's right. That is awesome. A creature

1:24:18

with lasers running -- Okay.

1:24:21

-- rocket exercise. slow down.

1:24:23

Twenty twenty two. Thank you, Frank Wu.

1:24:26

Gary Casper for designing. This

1:24:28

is how it's gonna work. We're going

1:24:30

to have some questions. And I'll explain

1:24:32

the further legal disclosure. I'm so scared

1:24:34

right now. I'm so scared right now. Should

1:24:37

be. So we're

1:24:39

gonna ask a question. And this

1:24:42

we're gonna go turn. So Leo

1:24:45

call heads or Tim. Oh, so it doesn't have to be a

1:24:47

speed thing. Okay. That's our heads.

1:24:49

You want

1:24:50

Yeah. Christina, you are

1:24:52

going first. Okay. Oh, you have flipped the

1:24:54

coin before I said it? I did.

1:24:56

I wrote it right here on my piece of paper. That's efficiency

1:24:59

babe. be. Okay. Hi,

1:25:01

Christina. Yes. In nineteen

1:25:03

ninety four, I Omega came out

1:25:05

with their massively popular Zip Drive.

1:25:07

Yes. The original version

1:25:10

of that technology came out eventually

1:25:12

in three capacities. Yes. What

1:25:14

were those three capacities? One

1:25:16

hundred megabytes. two hundred fifty

1:25:18

megabytes,

1:25:19

seven hundred megabytes.

1:25:23

That is correct. Wow. Wow.

1:25:26

I wasn't sure about the seven hundred. I remember

1:25:28

that because that was really good. They were trying to

1:25:30

take Did you say seven hundred or seven

1:25:32

fifty? She said

1:25:34

hundred. Seven hundred. Was

1:25:36

this seven fifty? Seven fifty.

1:25:39

Yeah. We're gonna have to give you partial credit

1:25:41

from cash. She got two added throughs. Okay.

1:25:43

Right. And I almost got two fifty, but it

1:25:45

was seven okay. Okay. I would have gotten that long

1:25:47

since it's very generously towards

1:25:49

you seven points for that. Okay.

1:25:52

That's a random number up, apparently. They

1:25:54

are all the words prime numbers. Let me ask

1:25:57

you that. Okay. Go ahead, please.

1:25:59

Continue.

1:25:59

Okay. Leo. I'm so sorry.

1:26:02

What is the alternative name for

1:26:04

the Haze command set originally

1:26:06

developed for three hundred baud modems?

1:26:09

Is it the ATD Let me think.

1:26:11

It's

1:26:13

is it just the a t command set? I'm gonna

1:26:15

say the it's not ATDT which is what you typed.

1:26:17

I think it's the a t command set. Is

1:26:19

that your final answer? Oh, shoot.

1:26:22

Christina

1:26:22

says yes. think think it's no.

1:26:24

I'm sorry. I think

1:26:26

this is right. I think it's the AT command set.

1:26:29

Nice. Correct. Ten k. It's for Leo.

1:26:33

But

1:26:33

it is ATGT. You spell out. But

1:26:36

Okay. Okay. Good. Good. So here's our

1:26:38

first How many points do we get for that ten?

1:26:40

You

1:26:40

get ten points. Okay. Okay.

1:26:43

So, Christina Leo scored

1:26:45

a point free and fair,

1:26:47

so now we come to the complicating factor

1:26:50

of this game. the Simone

1:26:52

chaos question. So

1:26:55

Simone. She's Is your girl, like,

1:26:57

so involved? You

1:26:59

don't. because that would be case. alone, it

1:27:01

could literally be anything.

1:27:04

Okay. It could be anything. Okay.

1:27:06

Okay. So you know,

1:27:08

I've seen these questions. I personally

1:27:10

wouldn't ask any of them. Like, you

1:27:12

can opt for the odd an

1:27:15

ASimo for a chaos question and

1:27:17

ten points are on the line. So you either

1:27:20

get ten points or you will lose

1:27:22

ten points. based on What if we don't ask

1:27:24

for a chaos question? Then it

1:27:26

just goes on?

1:27:28

Okay. So,

1:27:29

like, at any point, we can beg for a chaos

1:27:31

question Is that out? Yes. Like a lifeline. Correct?

1:27:34

So, like, will you ask a question and say, well,

1:27:36

I don't wanna answer that. Give me the chaos question. Is that

1:27:38

no? It's after after someone else scores.

1:27:41

Okay. Okay. So you could ask No.

1:27:43

can now ask for a cast For a cast question?

1:27:45

Yes. Or I can ask for regular question.

1:27:48

Yes.

1:27:50

Alright. How many points am I at now? Am I am

1:27:52

I at eight points now? Seven. Here's seven

1:27:55

points to ten.

1:27:57

Alright. Let's go for a chaos question. Woo.

1:27:59

Someone told you.

1:28:03

Alright. Brianna, should I ask

1:28:05

he's an order or can I can I move around?

1:28:08

I

1:28:08

would ask him an order so it's Don't worry about

1:28:10

favor attention to you.

1:28:12

I let me say about that. I very

1:28:14

I've done a show with Christina for a long

1:28:16

time. I asked I put together

1:28:18

questions

1:28:18

that we have not talked about on the

1:28:20

show. Yeah. It took me very seriously.

1:28:23

Okay. You have a blocked chaos mode. Go

1:28:25

ahead. Okay.

1:28:26

Christina, now my questions

1:28:28

are rewarding not simply

1:28:31

hard knowledge, but also creativity.

1:28:33

Yes. I would like you to tell me

1:28:35

what is the most French color and

1:28:38

why.

1:28:44

Lick cord on blue. Oh,

1:28:47

good. That's good. I like

1:28:49

it.

1:28:50

Because that was the first fun I could think of,

1:28:52

and that's my answer.

1:28:54

Cord on blue. And that's

1:28:55

your reason why. Yes.

1:28:57

Oh, God. Now the so is there a

1:28:59

judgment involved in the answer? You like

1:29:01

I don't know if it's someone you have to decide

1:29:04

now. Can't can't You

1:29:06

can't predict how she's gonna go.

1:29:08

I'm the expert of the Simone Cali.

1:29:10

So

1:29:10

what does she tell her say? No. I've never

1:29:12

taken look right down below. You're correct. She's

1:29:14

right. I think she's right. You got it. You got

1:29:17

it. You got it. You got it. I just now

1:29:19

have ten extra points. Ten extra points.

1:29:21

ten extra points. That's right. Now it's Christina's Okay.

1:29:24

Alright, Christina. Wow.

1:29:26

What G four TV host

1:29:29

starred on three shows? Attack

1:29:32

of the show. Mhmm. x play

1:29:34

and g four underground.

1:29:38

So

1:29:38

glad you didn't ask me that question. Attack

1:29:42

at the show, x play, g four underground.

1:29:45

Was that Kevin? What's

1:29:46

his last name? Your final answer? Kemper.

1:29:50

I

1:29:52

just wanted to so that's your final answer.

1:29:55

No. Morgan what? Morgan

1:29:56

like that was actually my first thought was being Morgan,

1:29:58

but

1:29:58

okay. Alright. Wrong on that

1:29:59

one. Cool.

1:30:00

wrong Oh, hey. I'm glad you didn't ask

1:30:02

me that question. I'm I'm I'm glad

1:30:05

I at least Or you're not mad at me forgetting

1:30:07

You're not mad at you because you know her. And and don't

1:30:09

know I I just somebody washed

1:30:11

these things. So and I'm just

1:30:13

glad I took the

1:30:14

chaos questions. So okay. Yeah. So now

1:30:16

she's got twenty seven points. No. I've got seventeen

1:30:18

points. Seventeen points. And your ten

1:30:20

points. Why didn't she get another ten for the getting the

1:30:22

Morgan Because I got it wrong. That's right.

1:30:24

Okay. That's right. Okay, Leah.

1:30:27

So you could take it off. my

1:30:28

my instinct was actually the same Morgan web verse.

1:30:31

And then when I was thinking of it, it was, like, was she on

1:30:33

attack the show and I couldn't remember.

1:30:35

There

1:30:35

we go. Leo, you could take

1:30:38

chaos question or you can So if

1:30:40

I do a chaos question, I get that and

1:30:42

I get a question. Yes. Correct. So

1:30:44

it's only five chaos questions. And

1:30:46

it's a chance to basically, it's a bonus.

1:30:49

Yes. You have

1:30:49

a chance to either get get another ten points

1:30:51

or lose ten

1:30:52

points. wanna throw up. Alright.

1:30:56

I'll do a chaos first. Okay. Oh,

1:30:58

boy. Oh.

1:31:00

Leo, I'm so sorry. It's not the French

1:31:02

one. Can you explain

1:31:05

to me to my satisfaction the plot

1:31:07

of SS Roger Mollie's twenty twenty

1:31:09

two masterpiece film, RRR

1:31:16

So

1:31:21

You're in a spaceship -- Mhmm.

1:31:23

-- on the Wintermars. Okay.

1:31:26

And, unfortunately, What

1:31:28

you don't know is

1:31:29

that in between you and Mars

1:31:32

is a black hole that no one's seen

1:31:34

because it's a black hole. Sure.

1:31:37

You

1:31:37

get sucked into it and

1:31:39

you emerge

1:31:41

into the Teletubbies Kingdom.

1:31:46

Now the comedy that ensues, subsequently,