0:00

Good evening. You're listening to three

0:02

no C.B.s ahead. I'm Len. I

0:05

still don't know what the title of this podcast is.

0:08

And I'm here with Father

0:11

Loris. Hello. And

0:14

Lambert. Hello there. And

0:16

we also have a special guest, Jay.

0:19

Hello, everyone. And you

0:21

are the creator of the Anbanar

0:24

setting and also, I

0:26

assume you work on all the mods, but like...

0:28

Yes. What is

0:31

your self-appointed title? Well,

0:34

my last project lead, but to be honest, I've

0:36

not really done much on EU4. It's

0:38

quite a while. Anbanar,

0:41

if you don't know, is a

0:43

high fantasy

0:45

total conversion mod for Curly

0:49

Europa Universalus IV. And I think also

0:51

the Crusader Kings III version is

0:54

somewhat far along at this point, but

0:58

not playable yet. Yeah,

1:02

just for the people who don't know, it's

1:05

got orcs, elves, wizards. Later

1:08

on, you get art. Gnomish Artificery.

1:10

I was about to say Artificers,

1:12

yeah. And

1:15

it's awesome. We all love it. Lambert

1:19

has been playing Gnomes in multiplayer recently, if

1:21

you can. Oh

1:23

yeah, that went real well until

1:25

I got a coalition of the

1:27

entire rest of the game against

1:29

me. Well, you're

1:32

not really playing right if you don't get

1:34

a coalition of the entire rest of the

1:36

world against you. So we had you on

1:38

as a guest back when like no CB

1:41

was a separate thing. And we also

1:43

on the main three moves ahead

1:45

feed did a show with me and

1:47

Loris and Lambert about and Benar specifically that

1:49

you weren't on. But I think this is

1:51

the first time you have actually been on

1:54

a three of May

1:56

episode. Yes, it is. First time.

2:00

talking behind your back about how good Ambanar

2:02

was. Yeah, of course. Talking

2:05

behind your back, oh, it's so great. That

2:08

bastard made one of the best mods ever. Even

2:12

in episodes of this

2:14

podcast where it's explicitly

2:16

not about Ambanar, I'm

2:19

pretty sure every single time that I've

2:21

been on this podcast, Ambanar has been

2:23

mentioned. Yeah, yeah. So

2:26

this is going to be a completely free

2:28

main feed show. I know our dev diary

2:30

breakdowns have been on the Patreon, but this is

2:32

going to be a freebie. We

2:35

also are probably going to talk about the

2:37

Tinto talks on religion as

2:39

well here. This

2:41

is like a bonus to the bonus to the

2:43

bonus because there's just

2:45

so much E5 stuff to talk about

2:47

now that it's not even possible to do

2:50

it in a single show. And

2:52

we do want to have some guests to also discuss

2:54

what they think about it. But

2:58

my number one question, Jay,

3:00

is 1337 or 1444? Oh,

3:05

spicy, very spicy question. I'm

3:11

not going to say my preference, I think people already know, but I'll

3:14

say the pros and cons for both. The

3:18

1337 one, obviously the

3:20

dream is that Ambanar is kind of its own IP rather

3:24

than a backdrop. So that's

3:26

a cool opportunity for us

3:28

to obviously explore that time

3:30

period. On

3:33

the opposite side, that's a hell of a lot of

3:35

work. And Ambanar has been around

3:37

for like, I don't know, eight years now. We've not

3:39

even done the entire world. So

3:42

I'm not sure I have

3:44

the appetite to do that again for

3:46

whatever the 1337 one is. And

3:50

I guess from a gameplay point of view,

3:52

right? Because

3:54

we can make up the world. 1444, we've

3:57

designed it to be interesting. So

4:00

we have the green tide, we have the

4:02

dwarven reclamation, right? We have monsters popping

4:04

up in bulwar. Um,

4:07

it's like all these world events of

4:09

like, yes, around this point. Yeah. Yeah.

4:11

So the question is, um, do we

4:13

have to re make world

4:15

events for 1337 or do we somehow

4:18

twist it? So yeah, maybe

4:20

the green tide can occur, uh, a

4:23

hundred years earlier. Um, I

4:27

mean, maybe you can do that, but you can only do that for

4:29

a few things. Just, just have it so

4:31

1444, it just is a really

4:33

interesting year to play. Like, as you know, like

4:35

a hundred years. I've

4:38

got the perfect solve for this. I

4:41

have the perfect self for this. What

4:43

if at some point you

4:46

bring in the Phantom time conspiracy theory, but

4:49

it's real, so it's all 1444, but you

4:51

call it 1337. Yeah.

4:59

So it's not confusing. So

5:03

yeah, like the, if, if,

5:05

if you could say there are two

5:07

wolves inside me, uh, one of them

5:09

is I would really love to

5:11

play an Inman our campaign. That's 500 years long. Um,

5:15

which I guess could also just be done

5:17

by making the mod end in 1936 instead

5:22

of 1836, if we start 1444. Um,

5:27

yeah. Well, I mean, you can carry on

5:29

right. Yeah. That's crazy. So

5:32

I was like, Oh cool. Exploring a new era. But then

5:34

also the more I thought about it, the other wolf is

5:36

like, man, that's such

5:38

a good, like 1444 where

5:40

it is right now is such a good point

5:43

to jump in. Cause like you never see Corin,

5:46

you know, but like what she's done is already done.

5:48

And I feel like if you get rid of that,

5:50

you're getting rid of so much of admin. There's

5:53

also the big thing of, um, how

5:55

much railroading do we do to make

5:58

1444 happen? from

10:00

his comments, there's not almost everything else is scriptable. So.

10:04

Yeah. He even mentioned like diplomacy

10:06

options being scriptable. Like you can

10:08

add new diplomacy options and stuff.

10:11

But the big question is, yeah,

10:13

are like pops and cultures able

10:15

to be split and have

10:18

different modifiers, right? That's the big.

10:20

Yeah. Yeah. I do not want

10:23

my marketplace turning this health into

10:25

a gnome. Like, you're

10:27

going to need at least a level

10:29

three hospital for that. It just squashes

10:31

them down. It's just like a, it's

10:34

like a hydraulic press that turns gnomes

10:36

and gnomes into gnomes. Yeah. If

10:39

you can prevent that from happening, I think

10:41

then it's probably going to be

10:43

fine having multiple different like groupings

10:45

of poems that will work together.

10:48

But it's

10:51

again, I'm not a moderate. I don't know

10:53

how any of that stuff works, but that's,

10:55

that's like my envisagedness of it. Yeah.

10:59

Even though they talk about

11:01

scriptable stuff, which I

11:03

can go on in a bit. There's

11:05

always the kind of back and forth

11:07

of what modifiers and stuff is actually

11:09

even available to what things, but

11:11

sometimes you'll find it that you have

11:13

this modifiable modifier available for this one

11:16

thing, but nope, you can't do it for

11:18

this other thing. And you're kind of like, why not? And they're

11:20

like, nah. So that

11:22

stuff still kind of skeptical on that modifier

11:25

side. Yes. And I think it's

11:27

a, it's like the statements, we're

11:29

not going to dumb down our

11:31

games. It's something that people

11:34

say, everything's going to be moddable. And

11:36

in reality, it's not the

11:38

case, right? That's nice. My other favorite

11:40

one is we're listening to the community

11:44

because every developer always

11:46

says that it really

11:48

doesn't mean anything. It's basically the same as

11:50

saying we were making a video game. It's like,

11:53

yeah, of course you're listening to the community.

11:56

I feel like at least in this

11:58

case, with, with Pinto. HRE

14:00

is something that has been made by the developers. So

14:02

there's technically nothing like

14:05

no, no comments have been made that say

14:08

you can't create a new HRE. I

14:10

don't think it's going to be possible, but it's

14:13

not actually been confirmed. You could premake

14:15

one and then just have it that

14:17

you can gain it in game later.

14:19

Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's

14:21

for gist. Yeah. Some

14:23

IOs are created during the course

14:25

of games, like personal unions and

14:27

coalitions and crusades, et

14:30

cetera. Well, I think here's

14:32

the thing. Like I've played probably

14:35

in the last few years, I've played, you know, maybe

14:37

around 300 hours of EU4 and like 260 of those

14:39

were in Anbanar. So

14:45

I think they should just have a dedicated

14:47

person at Tinto who is there to provide

14:49

code support for Anbanar. I agree.

14:52

I agree. I agree. I agree. I agree.

14:54

I agree. They should be able to request

14:56

features and have someone there that is hotter

14:59

than responsible for implementing it. Do

15:01

you have any Spanish developers there

15:04

at Anbanar? Probably.

15:06

Yeah, I think so. Well, there we

15:08

go. Get on that. Already,

15:10

I think there is an advantage to

15:13

those international organizations. Correct me if I'm

15:15

wrong, Jay, but I think upon with

15:17

EU4 at the moment is a mandate

15:20

system and it

15:22

can only be one mandate system, a misery-free system,

15:24

and it can only be one. But

15:26

under the new system, you don't

15:29

need a ration out for systems anymore, right? Yeah,

15:32

you're right. That is, I

15:34

mean, that's a good thing and a bad thing. Good

15:37

thing, obviously you have freedom. Bad

15:40

thing, sometimes they say diamonds

15:42

are made under pressure. Yes. If

15:46

you give them the ability to

15:48

do everything, you might not get as good

15:50

designs, I suppose, but I guess overall,

15:53

good thing. Yes. I mean, you

15:55

get that sometimes with

15:57

the parliament mechanic, I think everyone. like,

16:00

because the Parliament of the Mechanic is available to

16:02

everyone. There's a

16:04

lot of Parliaments to Manbhar,

16:07

I guess, right? And maybe

16:11

you'll have a similar sort of issue

16:13

with international organisations. Yeah. Do you guys

16:15

know? Because

16:18

I've read the thing. Can

16:21

organisations do stuff on their own,

16:23

or do they always have to

16:25

have a... For example, can the Catholic Church do

16:27

stuff? Is the international

16:29

organisation an entity that can do

16:32

things? Yeah, it

16:34

has progression. There are certain things that

16:36

have progression within them. Like, the HRE

16:38

is an international organisation that will, even

16:40

if you're not playing in the HRE,

16:43

will pass its own internal HRE edicts

16:45

and laws and such. So there is

16:47

some stuff that it does.

16:52

Yeah, agency, it'll depend. Because some of

16:54

them have a leader and some of

16:57

them don't. Yeah, because the Catholic Church,

16:59

the proxy is the Papal States, right?

17:01

If we have the GOMO, for example,

17:04

do we have to make a GOMO country,

17:06

or a Magisterium country to represent it? I

17:08

mean, do we have Magisterium? Not

17:11

necessarily. Well, Leanna

17:13

is... You can probably just design your

17:15

international organisation to have no leader,

17:18

but all the rest of the things the same as

17:21

the Catholic Church. But you don't... with

17:23

this system, it seems like it's so dynamic in

17:25

the way that it is set up. It's like

17:27

it's a bunch of building blocks that you can

17:29

do with whatever you need. So

17:33

if you wanted to have Magisterium as the head of

17:35

it, you can if you don't, and you want it

17:37

to be, you know, Regent Court with no

17:40

central head, then that should

17:42

be perfectly possible as well. Yeah,

17:47

I think that of all mechanics is going

17:49

to be abused the most. Yeah.

17:51

In a good way. Yeah,

17:54

in a good way. Something of course. You gotta leave

17:56

them in line. Leanna's got a

17:59

crackpot theory. country.

18:01

There can

18:03

be countries that don't have any land that

18:06

are playable. And if that's true, do

18:08

you think Ambanal will use

18:11

that at all? If it's impossible?

18:14

100%. So what's your favorite? I

18:19

don't even think it's a theory. It's just

18:21

a thing that I've observed that Lambert

18:24

and Loris aren't sure if I read it right.

18:26

But there will

18:28

be countries that do not own

18:31

locations but can have buildings like

18:33

the Hanseatic Contours and

18:35

stuff like that. Because we

18:37

know you can build buildings in locations

18:39

you don't own. So your country will

18:41

be based on ownership of buildings in

18:44

other people's provinces rather

18:46

than on actually owning

18:48

provinces. Like they mentioned banking

18:50

families is another possibility for

18:52

this. If

18:56

that's possible, that's crazy. And if

18:59

that is possible, they'll 100 million

19:01

percent make a DLC about

19:04

that. Yes. That's what I

19:06

imagine maybe. If there is countries where I'm playable,

19:08

maybe it won't be at launch. I

19:10

know that this

19:14

isn't my mod, obviously, but I have played an

19:17

awful lot of it. So I've got ideas on

19:19

how non-landowning countries

19:21

might... Like what

19:24

entities in Anbanar might be

19:26

non-landowning countries. And I've

19:28

just played a lot of gnomes.

19:30

The International Gomo. You

19:33

could play as the International Gomo. Oh

19:36

my gosh, I am so sold. Yeah,

19:39

the question is, what is the gameplay

19:41

though? Like, okay, I can build buildings.

19:47

That's where my skepticism comes from. It's like,

19:49

what's the gameplay of that, right? I

19:51

assume you'd still be able to have units. You'd

19:53

be able to build buildings that give you manpower.

19:58

I think... We're

20:00

gonna have to wait and see like if you are right and I

20:02

kind of hope you are now I Want

20:06

to know yeah, what is the

20:08

gameplay of it? And I think when we get the

20:10

a the dev diary on Landless

20:13

countries that you can play and here is how

20:15

you play them and what you do and how

20:18

it works That's when it's

20:20

gonna really click into place me right now.

20:22

It's just like a

20:24

concept for me Yeah,

20:27

well I remember Like

20:29

I think last time we had you on

20:31

a but no CB who were talking

20:33

about our Hopes for

20:36

Victoria freeze. I

20:38

remember you mentioning the

20:40

buildings the fact that adventurers

20:43

could be Yes part

20:45

of a building. I was wondering if

20:47

there was a possibility that

20:49

there's landless adventurers would

20:51

you model the Adventurers through but landless

20:53

countries or would they go through buildings or

20:55

maybe a mixture both? Probably

20:58

both it depends because the

21:00

coolest thing about adventurers as pops is that

21:02

they can affect your country So

21:06

it depends in what ways we can do that

21:08

obviously we're gonna have adventurer I Don't

21:11

know what it calls here like jobs or pop

21:13

types in this we're gonna have

21:15

mage pop types That's

21:17

guaranteed, right? Yes,

21:20

there is yeah, and in fact, I

21:22

think it's also based on your estate So if

21:24

you've got an adventure estate and only adventure estate

21:27

works in the adventure buildings, for example,

21:29

I think that's how it's gonna work. Yeah It

21:33

would be dependent on the pop type. So

21:35

yeah, I could I could see multiple ways

21:37

of doing it. Yeah, like if I was

21:40

Gonna like design this I could see it

21:43

being Adventurer is its own

21:45

pop type or I could

21:47

see the adventure estate being something that

21:49

pulls from Like the

21:52

peasants and the burgers maybe but yeah, I

21:54

don't know We'll

21:56

have to see performance wise like what adding

21:58

more pop types actually Yeah. Yeah.

22:02

Yeah, that's a good. But he does say you

22:04

can add me. Is that a concern that you

22:06

might have too with the performance? Because we don't

22:09

know how well EU5's going to run, but is

22:12

there a concern on that? No,

22:14

because performance

22:16

is for nerds. You heard

22:18

it here first. It's

22:23

very better computer nerds. We need to clip that.

22:27

Because I know it's

22:29

a concern with, and

22:33

I'm not sure just with Ambina, but I know

22:35

in Victoria 3 modding circles,

22:38

because Victoria 3 is a bit capped out

22:40

on performance already, and it limits the modding

22:42

capability in some way. Yeah.

22:46

I do wonder how

22:48

performance and fidelity EU5

22:52

or projects either is, because they're

22:55

going to have 3D guys,

22:58

like characters, right? I assume

23:00

so. It's got to be Gary. Yes, unfortunately.

23:02

I don't know. I

23:06

flip back and forth on whether I think that's going

23:08

to be the case or not, because we

23:11

get these hints, like in the latest Dave Darry

23:13

and the one before it, like the word character

23:15

was used. And then people jump

23:17

to conclusions and say, ah, this is confirmation. I'm one

23:19

of these people, by the way. This

23:21

is confirmation that characters and 3D model doodad people

23:24

are going to be in. And then you read

23:26

the comments and somebody else has made that conclusion

23:28

as well. And Johan's reply

23:30

is, well, no, the ruler

23:33

of your country in EU4 is also a character. So

23:36

like, damn, back to square one. And we

23:38

did so. I

23:41

mean, like the whole

23:43

3D stuff for Paradox is like

23:45

really, really bad for modders. Yeah.

23:48

But I get why they do it because

23:50

it's cool,

23:52

right? It's cool to look

23:54

at characters. I think it's cool. I

24:00

mean, I think it's nice in Crusader Kings

24:02

III. I mean, it's

24:05

a game of characters. So I think them

24:07

being able to age dynamically and stuff. But

24:09

I guess it's kind of like on

24:12

a business point of view, they want

24:14

to get new people, hopefully without alienating

24:16

old people. And the

24:18

better the game looks, the

24:21

longer the franchise lives, right? And also, I

24:23

think they've got a system and they want

24:25

to use it, right? They've got

24:27

a new game. Yeah, that's basically what I'm thinking. Like

24:30

Stellaris is going to be, you know, if they

24:32

have Stellaris 2, that's going to be crazy. Yes.

24:34

Yeah. Yeah. Hopefully, I mean,

24:36

hopefully the if they do use or

24:38

if they do use 3D portraits in

24:41

E5, it will be close enough to

24:44

what they're using in the other games that like

24:46

all the work that has already been done making

24:48

like elves and stuff will not be thrown

24:51

away. Yeah. The

24:56

core of it is OK, but I know we

24:58

had some issues. Converting stuff

25:00

from CK3 to Vicky 3,

25:02

actually, because CK3 has traits

25:04

and all that stuff, which

25:07

means their character portrait stuff

25:09

is way more complex than Victoria 3.

25:13

You have to essentially dumb down your

25:15

work to fit to Victoria 3. Don't

25:18

feel like that. Take

25:20

back my statement. I need

25:23

to clip just that

25:25

part on its own in a box, and

25:27

I'm going to put it on my shelf. I'm assuming

25:29

it will be the same for E5. It's going

25:31

to be a character focus. Right. That's right. There's

25:33

not going to be traits like ugly in. Yes. Yeah.

25:37

I mean, there might be some of these I get my straight. There

25:40

might be traits in the way that you for

25:42

has traits. We don't know yet, but yeah, I

25:44

don't think you'll be in depth. Yeah,

25:47

but there's the other problem is to you

25:49

have to make assets for them. Yes. Which

25:51

is it? Yeah. Yeah. Regardless. Right. I mean,

25:54

I did an interview last year with Kargowin. of

26:00

your and Benaz dev team, who

26:03

does a bunch of the 3D modeling for,

26:05

you know, the little armies marching on the

26:07

map. I asked him about, you know,

26:10

what is, how much

26:12

more difficult is it to do with 3D art than

26:14

2D art? Does that increase the amount of like effort

26:16

and stuff? I

26:18

feel like maybe because he was a 3D artist,

26:22

maybe influenced the reason why he said

26:24

no, but I think for the vast

26:26

majority of people making

26:28

a 3D model

26:31

is going to be far more difficult than

26:34

making a 2D picture

26:36

for a character. Yeah. There's just less

26:39

3D modeler people. Yes. Yeah.

26:43

I mean, it's the same with like, there's

26:45

more people who can draw and paint than

26:47

there are people who can sculpt. I mean,

26:49

it just stands to reason. So

26:51

it's a trade off, cause I do sprite work,

26:53

which is, it

26:56

can be very time consuming because you have

26:58

to draw like every direction and every pose

27:00

separately. So I think the advantage of

27:02

a 3D model can be that you make the model

27:04

and then you can just kind of move it around

27:06

however you want. And you're not having to make out

27:08

a completely new model just cause, oh,

27:10

I want this character to be able to

27:13

have a different facial expression or something. So

27:15

I think there's advantages to both, but yeah,

27:17

like you said, I think in general, 2D

27:19

art is probably. Yeah. Once you set up

27:22

the basis of the 3D models, like once

27:24

you have elf ears, you can make elves.

27:27

And you don't have to remake, you know, you

27:29

can give that tool to anyone now. Yeah.

27:33

Yeah. Yeah. If

27:37

it was an option though, I

27:39

miss this will just be a

27:41

proposal. Like if there is going to be

27:43

3D portraits, would

27:45

it be nice to have a option

27:49

to have 2D art for

27:51

models? Yeah. I

27:55

think that would be great. Yeah. Yeah.

27:58

So the base game. I know obviously Crusader

28:00

Kings. has like Muhammad and stuff. Yeah.

28:02

That's kind of like Muhammad

28:05

high drinks. Like you have to jump through some to set that

28:07

up. You

28:09

do get like mods for like

28:11

CK3 that like turns characters into

28:13

2D anime characters. And

28:16

I think what they do is have a 3D 2D

28:19

plane that has a texture that always

28:21

faces the camera and doesn't have like

28:23

animation. It's a real rigmarole to go

28:25

through to basically make it. They just

28:27

had a way to just make it

28:29

simple and that you can just put

28:31

an image. That's it. That's all you

28:33

do or have a list of images

28:35

and then that will open up a

28:37

lot of opportunities. Just put a DDS

28:39

file in a file and bam, you're

28:41

done. That would be. Yeah. Use that

28:43

instead of the portrait done. Yeah. Yeah.

28:46

Even if they were to add like

28:48

Stellaris has like the sort of limited

28:50

animation on 2D portraits. Like that would

28:52

be cool to me. I like that

28:54

more than I like CK3 or Vic3.

28:57

Yeah, I would prefer that system. So

29:01

I guess one of

29:03

the biggest things with going from EU4 to EU5

29:08

is that so the

29:11

way that the way that you actually

29:13

model having different fantasy races in EU4

29:15

is. It's

29:17

kind of madness and I'm always a little

29:20

bit shocked that it works. I'm

29:23

actually curious like how many iterations of that

29:25

did you go through before you found something

29:28

that actually. Are you

29:30

talking about pop system or like

29:32

the minorities

29:35

and things like that? Yeah,

29:38

I mean the idea of hop system

29:41

has always been part of

29:43

Ambinar actually. I

29:45

think from maybe I

29:48

don't even know if it was their initial release but

29:50

very soon after. I think it was. Yeah.

29:54

Because the

29:56

big weakness of not having pops and you

29:59

know. jumped into Paradox

30:01

because of Victoria too. So I love the

30:03

idea of Pops, but it

30:05

doesn't really work in a fantasy world because

30:08

then you'd have gigantic monolithic empires

30:11

where everyone's human or everyone's an elf.

30:13

Whereas in most fantasy settings, you're

30:16

gonna have a few elves as in

30:18

about, a few dwarves as in about. I

30:21

think once the system is there for Anbin REU4,

30:25

it stays like that. There's

30:27

back and forth on the modifiers,

30:30

but that's kind of a

30:33

known thing, right? People will always

30:35

have opinions on what elf military does

30:37

versus, et cetera. But

30:41

like the core system in my opinion hasn't really

30:43

changed that much. Maybe it's a bit more optimized

30:46

nowadays, and maybe there's a bit more

30:48

content of the events for each pop.

30:50

But for EU5, the biggest

30:53

question will

30:56

be how we can do tolerances and stuff like that.

31:01

Yeah, we saw religious tolerance in the

31:03

dev diary today, but yeah. Because

31:06

I'm pretty sure they would not wanna

31:08

touch cultural tolerance at all

31:10

for obvious reasons. So that's

31:12

always the iffy thing with

31:14

mods that, hey,

31:17

we wanna have certain cultures have modifiers,

31:20

and they don't do that for very

31:22

specific purposes. Exactly, having a

31:25

purge mechanic in vanilla EU4 would

31:27

probably not be. We

31:30

do know that pops, they

31:33

are able to have modifiers attached to

31:35

pop groups. Like

31:37

for example, when

31:39

they were talking originally about the pops, and

31:42

there was this whole question of like,

31:44

why do you only have a peasant

31:46

pop group? That doesn't really apply when

31:49

we're looking at hordes.

31:51

That's another thing they changed. They added

31:53

the tribal pop type. But

31:55

then they were talking about, so what would serfdom

31:57

look like? And serfdom

31:59

is... peasants with a modifier

32:02

attached. So potentially, instead

32:05

of adding 1000 new pop types, it could just

32:08

be a case of the

32:10

racial trait is the modifier that

32:12

is attached. I mean, if

32:14

that's powerful enough to say you can only breed

32:17

or convert to people with this

32:19

same modifier, then maybe that could

32:21

work. Yeah, I mean, the issue

32:23

is that the peasants stuff

32:25

is for like the kind of, I don't

32:28

know what you call the types rather

32:30

than the culture. So that's the

32:32

big question if we can do

32:34

stuff via culture. Yeah,

32:36

unless you just have a load

32:38

of different types for every race,

32:41

which probably is. Yeah, it'd be

32:43

a nightmare, right? UI, nightmare, and

32:46

I have him on Discord. Maybe

32:51

he will want to come on at some point

32:53

when he's allowed to talk about more stuff. Maybe

32:56

we actually know the name of the game. Yeah, the other side of things we've

32:58

learned a bit of

33:08

a bit about manpower, right? And

33:11

it seems about manpower seems fairly scriptable.

33:13

So I think there

33:16

is a potential that

33:19

you could have separate manpower pools, depending

33:22

on what buildings you have.

33:24

So you could have a separate elf manpower

33:26

pool and a separate human manpower pool, etc.

33:29

I think that's possible. The

33:32

size of units is variable too now, right?

33:35

Yes. So that'll help us a lot. Oh,

33:38

that'll be very interesting. Yeah, because

33:40

that's one thing that, obviously I

33:42

know that there's no real way around it, but one

33:45

thing that bugs me about the EU 4 mod is

33:47

the fact that your military

33:49

has to be all or nothing. You

33:51

either have to have an elven military

33:53

or a human military. Whereas I'd love to

33:55

have my human. you

34:00

know, footmen and then my elite like

34:02

Phoenix Lancers that, you

34:04

know, pull from a different. Well

34:06

of, of man. Well, my, my mind instantly

34:09

went to goblins. Of course, when you said

34:11

that Jay, and I thought like, um,

34:14

you know, if a, if a

34:16

unit size is dynamic, then I

34:19

assume in vanilla, you thought the five is going

34:21

to be a set time period

34:23

with set sizes, but in Ambinar, I guess

34:26

you could get word of a time lock and

34:28

a goblin unit has X

34:30

number of units and alpha unit has X number of

34:33

units. Right. They can be

34:35

just as strong as each other. Exactly. Which is

34:37

an interesting thing. It's great

34:39

for balancing too, right? Yes. I

34:43

guess what the tricky part would be, it

34:45

seems like manpower is still just a common

34:47

pool. Yeah. So I'm

34:49

thinking about having like, okay, I have

34:52

a province that has a human recruitment

34:54

center and an elven recruitment center and

34:56

they're both producing manpower, but maybe at

34:58

a like the elf one, is it

35:00

a slower rate? This is, this is

35:02

a thing. So Johan said that units,

35:05

locations and countries have a hard coded

35:07

thing. So I don't think the diff,

35:10

the different pools, I

35:12

think may be scriptable. I

35:14

assume it'd be cool if so. You

35:16

could, you could even have a manna pool, right?

35:20

I mean, for the manpower thing, we could

35:23

get away with it where it relies on

35:25

the dominant culture. So you can build elf

35:27

barracks to build elf units in elf

35:30

dominant culture. Yeah. Yeah. You could get most

35:32

of the way there, I guess. And

35:35

then you can have a varied army. It

35:37

just depends what's their philosophy on having loads

35:39

of different units. Like do we only have

35:42

one type of cavalry in our army? No,

35:44

we can do multiple. And we have like,

35:46

can I have horse archers nights and all

35:48

that stuff? Yeah, I think you can have

35:50

all the different types will be fully scriptable.

35:53

Yeah. Yeah. One of the questions on the

35:55

warfare dev that we had so far is,

35:58

can I have horse archers and lances? in

36:00

the same army and the answer was yes. Awesome.

36:03

Yeah, for sure. I think it's like Victoria 2

36:05

in that regard, right? It's like everything's got its

36:07

own unit type. Yes.

36:09

Yeah. One question

36:12

I had is, are there any

36:14

things in Anbanal that

36:16

you would want to change

36:18

when bringing it to an... Say

36:21

you go with 1444, the things that you would want

36:23

to change, either with the

36:25

lore or even things like, you

36:27

know, this continent doesn't really

36:29

feel right. It maybe feels too small,

36:31

too disconnected for Ben Pines. So

36:34

maybe we'll change that a bit now

36:37

that we have, you know, a fresh start with

36:39

EU5. Is there anything on those lines? I

36:41

think that's a real tough

36:43

question because obviously, you know, if

36:45

you ask the Discord, everyone will want to change the

36:48

world to their image. Yes.

36:50

For me, maybe I'm still conservative

36:53

on that because it's like we work

36:55

so hard to make the setting, etc,

36:57

etc. The point is that we

36:59

build on top of our old work rather

37:01

than starting from scratch over and over again.

37:03

I'm sure we'll add more islands in the

37:05

places like that, you know, haven't

37:07

had that much love like the

37:10

Uelosus Lament and stuff like that so

37:12

we can have minor geographical changes

37:14

like that. I personally wouldn't

37:16

want massive, you

37:19

know, removing the serpent spine, for example. I

37:23

wouldn't want to do that. Yes.

37:25

The political kind of borders and

37:28

stuff might change, especially, you

37:30

know, that crazy Holy Roman Empire

37:32

map. I 100% want to do the exact same

37:34

to Empire of I've Been Art. Yeah. I think

37:36

Empire of I've Been Art is a bit tame,

37:38

to be honest, compared to Vanilla HRE. Yes.

37:42

I agree with you, baby. Oh my god. Yeah. The

37:44

granularity. Is that a thing

37:47

that you've been like salivating over the

37:49

ability to do, like ever

37:51

so like increased amount of,

37:54

you know, breaking up things? I mean, like

37:56

for M&R specifically, you know, we've been talking

37:59

recently about like like moon

38:01

foot, like halflings, D'Amerian halflings and

38:03

stuff. And my main contention

38:05

was, if you give them

38:07

an entire province, that's maybe too many. I'm

38:10

okay with scattering them in small communes, you

38:12

know what I mean? Along the Luna, but

38:14

not, you know, they own this

38:16

entire massive county. So we can have

38:19

way more granular racial

38:21

diversity in Anbinaar, which

38:24

would be really interesting. Like even

38:26

smaller Elvin Havens, right? Or it's just

38:28

like a small corpse of forest rather

38:31

than these gigantic moon haven stuff, you know?

38:33

We're from the Western Red Glades. We don't

38:35

talk to those Elph from the Eastern Red

38:37

Glades. Actually, Eastern

38:39

Red Glades. You might just sound

38:42

very British. Speaking

38:45

of the Eastern West stuff, do you

38:47

think there'll be any cities where we

38:49

get the Katanoff treatments splitting up into

38:52

North, South, East, West cities, do you think?

38:56

Maybe I'm sure there'll be some proposals. I

38:58

think the less we do that, the more unique,

39:01

the ones that do have it, you

39:03

know? Because if

39:05

every city is, you know,

39:07

OPM, urban terrain, whatever, it's

39:09

like, okay, cool. Yeah. Doesn't

39:12

really matter anymore. Yeah. I

39:15

would think that, yeah, on U5 scale, I

39:19

don't know, Katanoff might make more sense

39:21

as a province with multiple locations, but

39:23

I don't know. Katanoff's like that now,

39:25

right? Yeah, I was

39:27

thinking like, it's Ambenkost. It's because

39:30

it's, yeah, there was

39:32

less granularity. Like, I might

39:34

not understand your question. I guess it depends

39:36

if the, are we okay with,

39:39

for example, if we do Ambenkost, are we okay

39:41

if the Dove market is its own country? Or

39:44

is it always gonna be a major of

39:46

Ambenkost ruling it, right? It depends on that

39:49

level. Because for Katanoff, it makes a bit

39:51

more sense. Yes, yeah, yeah, that makes

39:53

sense, yeah. Well, maybe you just have like a sort

39:55

of bank more pork situation where one side is. Yes,

39:59

but yeah, you're right. civil war within a city.

40:01

I mean, the Sari-Sung world, Sari-Sung will be crazy.

40:04

Yeah. Yeah. There's one in the

40:06

New World as well in Larenkar. Can't remember the

40:08

name of it though. This, mind you, you already

40:10

have, um, uh, gosh,

40:13

I forgot my name of it now. The, uh, the Halfling Divided

40:16

City. Viswol. Viswol,

40:18

that's one, yes. You

40:21

could have a situation with it. That's separated by a river.

40:23

That's a bit different. Yeah. Yeah.

40:27

Yeah. I mean, we could, there, there

40:29

is an argument where if we have locations

40:31

now, that, um, Viswol

40:33

is actually part of a bigger place and

40:35

the city state of Viswol is much smaller

40:37

than it is in, um, than

40:40

it isn't you for. Like, that might also

40:42

happen to some places, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

40:45

Makes sense. Yeah.

40:50

Is it, do you, do you foresee it being

40:52

something where you do start with, you know, maybe

40:54

just can or and build out like you did

40:56

with the E4? Um,

40:59

I don't think that's possible to be honest with all

41:01

the people on the team. Everyone's

41:03

just going to want to jump on. And if

41:06

we do 1444, I would imagine everyone will

41:08

want to just get

41:11

on with their region and implement

41:13

it all. Um, it's just

41:15

making sure world foundation is all good

41:17

and set up. And we've divided everything

41:19

into the locations and stuff. And

41:22

the fan base would riot if the serpent

41:24

spine isn't included. Yeah. Oh yeah. Could

41:26

you, could you imagine a situation though,

41:29

say if one team is particularly fast

41:31

at developing a region, releasing the mods

41:34

just with that region, um, just as like

41:36

a, as a taster, because I feel like,

41:38

yeah, there's a

41:40

lot of, sorry, there's a lot of like

41:43

CK three mods for, uh, we're stuck in

41:45

development hell for a good long while because

41:47

the scope was very big, right? I guess.

41:50

Uh, maybe that's my worry. I guess. Yeah.

41:53

I mean, I get what you mean. Um, cause

41:55

like Crusader Kings is kind of like that and

41:57

Victoria free mod is kind of like that where.

41:59

Yeah, you know, we have most of it. We

42:01

don't have Sorehile. I

42:04

think I'm not sure I would release it. Like it

42:06

would be playable. Like you can download it on the

42:08

Discord and stuff for sure. I

42:11

guess my favorite releasing is now you have to

42:13

maintain the release now. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So

42:16

it'd be like it's like a Bitbucket preview, I

42:18

guess. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you can play. You

42:20

can play if you want. We're hands all good.

42:22

But you know, Connor's still messed up. Yeah.

42:26

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. That sounds good.

42:28

The other thing I'm really curious to

42:30

see how like the Dwarov Road

42:32

is going to end up looking like. Is it?

42:34

Guys, yeah. Are we going to have 10,000 Dwarov

42:36

Road provinces? Oh

42:39

my god. No. Is it going to be

42:41

like the Dwarov Road 39 will

42:43

be the province and then the locations will

42:45

be like the median, the center, the right

42:48

median. Oh my god. The main,

42:51

the main either side. There's

42:54

like a rest stop every once in a

42:56

while. Yeah. I

42:59

mean, unironically, there has been in some of

43:01

the lore, it's kind of like people have

43:03

made settlements alongside

43:05

the road, right? Yeah, yeah. So there

43:07

might be a world where there are

43:10

settlements and that's its own country right

43:13

next to it along the road. That'd

43:15

be great. It's just like a Joe's

43:17

crab shot in the middle of the

43:19

underground. Yeah. I could have said

43:21

Patulby. And anyone going through.

43:23

Honestly, you literally can now with

43:25

the dynamic sounds that you can

43:27

add in. Wait, what's that?

43:30

Oh, you know how in EU4 you've

43:32

got the Danish sound toll where trade

43:34

that goes through it. It's not very

43:37

well implemented in EU4 because trade is

43:39

trash. But in

43:42

EU5, any trade, so goods that

43:44

are moving through the Danish straits

43:47

because all goods in trade actually

43:49

follow a physical path on the

43:51

map, then Denmark is going

43:53

to get a cut of that in tariffs. You

43:56

could probably do something along those

43:58

lines with the Dvorvo. Well, you

44:00

could do it anywhere, but adding

44:02

it into the Doraavar would be really

44:04

cool, I think. Is

44:07

it only trade goods that can trigger that? I

44:10

think trade goods are the only thing

44:12

that gets traded. Like, it's not, you're

44:14

not pushing money around, you're pushing actual

44:16

goods around, but then there's

44:18

like a tariff on those goods when you go through the

44:21

sound toll. What's your guys'

44:23

opinion on the whole kind of trade

44:25

and buildings and stuff? I

44:29

don't like EU4 trade, so I'm really

44:31

happy with what I'm seeing with EU5's

44:33

trade so far. I

44:37

have some concerns about it in

44:39

terms of performance and micro.

44:43

Like in terms of, like in vanilla, if

44:45

I want to get cloves all the way

44:47

from like T-DOR to, you

44:50

know, Genoa or

44:52

something, I feel like that's going to

44:54

be a lot of micro to be like, I'm going to trade it

44:56

to here and then I'm going to trade it to here and then

44:58

I'm going to build a marketplace and trade it to here and then

45:00

I'm going to build a marketplace and trade it to here. But

45:03

it's one of those things where it's hard

45:05

to say until I've actually played with it

45:07

if that's going to be annoying or not.

45:09

So, yeah. That is actually my biggest concern

45:11

as well. Like there's

45:13

a billion trade goods in

45:16

EU5 and am

45:18

I going to be able to understand all of

45:20

those? Yeah. Because

45:24

there's a limit of understanding how much you

45:26

can play into economy. Even

45:29

you know, in Victoria where you have X many

45:31

trade goods. If

45:34

there's EU5 there's like 700 billion, you're

45:36

like, what the hell is going on? Might

45:38

be a bit overwhelming. Yeah. Yeah. Then

45:41

you also have to add in Dames tier and Precursor relics.

45:43

Oh yeah. And

45:46

then all the buildings and stuff. Crazy. Yeah.

45:50

I mean, I would actually be able to sell Dames tier and

45:52

stuff. But yeah. We actually just

45:55

thought of the fact that with

45:57

building certain units, you're only a to

46:00

build them if you have that good in

46:03

your market. Yeah, so yeah, good

46:05

luck building your, you know, artifices

46:07

with black Zames tier rifles if

46:09

you don't have the black Zames

46:11

tier in your market. I

46:15

mean, that's awesome. Whatever drawbacks are out, that makes

46:17

it worth it. I actually, you know what? I

46:19

agree. Elves

46:22

maybe don't ride horses for their cavalry.

46:24

Maybe they ride really big elk,

46:27

and therefore you need elk in the thing.

46:29

So nobody else can build them purely because

46:31

they could. That would be cool. Thing

46:35

about complexity though is like it's often a

46:37

concern when the game is like

46:39

at launch or approaching, but thing

46:42

is you invest hundreds of hours into

46:44

a paradox game and eventually that complexity

46:46

wears away in your head, right? Yeah.

46:49

So too little and it's like, okay,

46:52

this is just too simplified now. I'm getting a bit bored.

46:55

Yes. Maybe too much and you don't get into

46:57

it. So it's a tricky balance. I

47:01

think it might be just about right

47:03

with this. If it looks

47:05

overwhelming when you're going into it, I think

47:08

that's a good thing. Definitely.

47:11

I mean, there's a great example of that

47:13

is Anno 1800. I

47:15

only got into that game last

47:18

year and look straight up looking

47:20

into it the first time. It

47:22

looked so incomprehensible, but

47:24

then there are people who are downloading mods to

47:26

add 17,000

47:29

extra bits of complexity. It's like, yes, you have

47:31

now played the game enough so that you understand

47:33

the base game and now you're looking for more.

47:37

So I'm kind of fine with there being

47:39

complexity because we haven't played it yet. We are

47:41

them. We are me last year looking at Anno

47:43

for the first time. The

47:45

complexity looks overwhelming, but

47:48

then we play it and that's

47:50

going to be fine. Well, and the other thing

47:52

is the advantage to

47:54

another advantage to the new trade system,

47:56

is it really models the fact that

47:58

like, again, using the example of getting

48:01

clothes from Indonesia to Europe. Yeah,

48:04

it should be really expensive. Like it should

48:06

only be really worth it to do that

48:08

for things that are going to sell for

48:10

a very high price. Yeah. Back home. I

48:13

mean, spices were not cheap. So, you know,

48:16

and then reducing the transportation costs at every link

48:18

along that network. I just don't want it to

48:20

be super micro heavy. I don't want it to

48:23

be like how it currently is with light ships

48:25

where it's like, Oh, I

48:27

got to check what my trade power

48:29

is in every node and move my

48:31

light ships around. Like I really don't

48:33

like doing that kind of tiny, tiny

48:35

optimization. So yeah. Is

48:38

there any good you were thinking

48:40

of adding, uh, Jay, on top

48:42

of the obvious? I

48:44

mean, I think it's going to be in right. Yeah. Yeah.

48:47

We have the obvious. I think obviously

48:49

in, um, you for trade

48:52

good philosophy, it's kind of, they congregate

48:55

things. So like you only have grain, you don't

48:57

have rice or anything like that. I

49:00

feel like in you five, it's more

49:02

free form. So for example, we have

49:04

relics or precursor relics. We could

49:07

totally split that up into over

49:09

relics, elf relics, whatever, you know,

49:11

so we can have more granularity

49:13

there because it fits the design

49:16

philosophy now. Yeah. I

49:18

love that. Yeah. You get,

49:20

you have a unique ones you get

49:22

from your karashi drill stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

49:24

Yeah. I mean, like it would make

49:26

sense if black James there is as

49:28

actual, it's a separate trade good to

49:31

James tier and you need a building

49:33

to convert, you know, James here to black

49:35

James tier. All the work we've

49:37

done in Victoria free for like art advisory

49:39

and doodads and reagents and stuff. We can

49:41

also bring all of that into, oh

49:44

yeah. Yeah. You can have different reagent types

49:46

as well for magic and stuff. So

49:48

yeah, I mean, yeah, I think

49:50

that's probably the best aspect

49:53

of Victoria free. And you can just pull

49:55

back straight over to you. Another thing that

49:57

just occurred to me is like undead pop.

50:01

And just having an undead estate that's always

50:03

happy no matter what. I

50:05

mean you can treat undead as

50:07

a trade good as well. Yeah. Yeah.

50:11

And then the building requires the undead, you know,

50:13

skeletons. So whatever trade goes on, you know, trade

50:15

good to make this on the armies and stuff.

50:18

Yeah. Build more graveyards

50:20

to get more. Yes, exactly. Oh

50:22

yes. Or even change

50:25

your laws. There's actually like royal

50:29

palaces and stuff. If you're a vampire or

50:31

a lich you could build a crypt and

50:33

all sorts of stuff like that. Oh goodness.

50:36

Like EU4 is very limited in

50:38

the amount of buildings you could

50:40

physically put into the game, purely

50:42

based on a UI and feasibility

50:44

scale. But

50:47

we have hundreds of buildings in

50:49

EU5. You

50:52

could just simply go ham on what you

50:54

add to the game really. Fantasy

50:58

is in a good place right now for that.

51:00

Yeah. I suppose it's kind of

51:03

like EU5 is more crazy, whereas EU4

51:05

is very limited. So that means

51:07

that I'm going

51:10

to regret saying this, we'll probably follow the more crazy

51:12

path. Yeah. Yeah.

51:15

It's like I am kind of also concerned about the

51:17

buildings, having a million buildings, but

51:19

maybe that's not the point of the game. The

51:23

point is having loads of stuff rather than having a

51:25

tighter building loop. It's like Stellaris

51:27

has 700 million buildings as

51:29

well, but I don't feel like that's

51:32

a big drawback on the

51:34

game. Yes, true. Yeah. And

51:37

they're probably like limited, right? So maybe

51:39

like 700 buildings, but maybe in

51:41

a game you're only going to interact with a few. Because

51:44

they're probably a unique type of building. Yes, that's

51:46

true. Yeah. And I think the

51:48

focus of Ambanab would be like, there's a lot of buildings, but

51:51

maybe a lot of them could only

51:53

be built in holds. Maybe a lot

51:55

of them could be built in last. Another

51:58

really interesting thing is the fact that Let's

54:01

add on to vanilla, essentially, rather than

54:03

remake things from scraps. Because we already

54:05

have, we're already making a completely new

54:07

made up world. Uh,

54:09

you know, whatever you make the game for

54:11

paradox as well. Yes. Yeah. Oh

54:14

yeah. So I see your adapts to be to

54:16

the vanilla game. Yeah. Makes sense. Which

54:18

leads on to a question I wanted to ask

54:20

too, which was, um, uh, you

54:23

know, I assume that mission

54:25

trees are going to be in the game. Literally what I

54:27

was going to ask as well. Uh-huh.

54:29

But if mission trees aren't in the game, would

54:31

that be something you consider modding in because I

54:34

feel like the structure of Ambinara is very mission

54:37

tree focused, right? But

54:39

that's time to panic. If mission

54:41

trees are not in any capacity,

54:43

Ambinara panic. I

54:46

mean, I'm of the person, I

54:48

think mission trees are great in the sense

54:50

that it makes, that's the point of playing

54:53

countries most of the time. Yeah. Um, but

54:55

it is such a drain to make mission

54:57

trees. It's like you spend so much time

54:59

doing it. Yes. So

55:02

I think if we don't have

55:04

mission trees, we'll probably have find a

55:07

way to weave like a narrative story and

55:09

stuff like that in any way, or use

55:11

whatever, um, vanilla

55:13

provides, uh, I'm not sure about,

55:15

you know, for example, some guy makes a mod,

55:17

a mission tree mod or something. I'm

55:20

not sure about taking that mod and

55:22

inheriting it. Um, just

55:24

because like I said before, like we want

55:26

to adapt the vanilla. So,

55:29

but we'll see, we'll see. The

55:32

only words we've had so far on mission

55:34

trees is when Johan was asked about

55:36

our mission trees going to be in the game

55:38

or they asked our EU four style mission tree

55:40

is going to be in the game. He said,

55:42

no, then people, you

55:45

know, took that ran with it saying, Oh, you

55:47

five will not have any mission trees. But

55:49

then he clarified, um, or

55:52

corrected them and saying, I said it

55:54

wouldn't have you for style mission trees.

55:56

So the leading theory, my

55:59

theory. is that it's going to

56:01

have Imperator Rome style mission trees, which

56:04

I feel like Anbanar and

56:06

E4 basic mission trees can just

56:09

be dragged and dropped into one

56:11

of the building blocks in Imperator,

56:13

their mission tree system. But then

56:15

it has like extra stuff alongside.

56:17

So I feel like in

56:20

the worst case scenario, if that is the kind of

56:22

tree that we're getting, the mission

56:24

trees existing in

56:26

Anbanar right now can just be brought

56:28

over and then over time tweaked to

56:30

make full use of the Imperator

56:33

system. Yeah,

56:35

I do wonder that actually, that's actually a big

56:37

question. I feel like my

56:41

gut feeling is most people will just want

56:44

to redo mission trees from scratch. And

56:47

yeah, like there's a guy with mission tree and they're

56:49

like, nah, forget all of the, forget the pacing and

56:51

design. Maybe we keep the concepts like the lore concepts,

56:53

but we're going to do it in our own completely

56:56

different way. I feel like that's what's going to happen

56:58

for Anbanar rather than

57:00

one to one conversion. So

57:03

yeah, definitely for Kanor, because

57:05

those mission trees are,

57:08

for the most part, really old at this point.

57:10

But for some of your newer ones, like they're

57:14

really like cutting edge and they could

57:16

just be transported without any problem. I

57:18

guess it's, you know, we want

57:20

to probably rule, we'll have a rule against it,

57:23

you know, like if they want to do that,

57:25

go for it. Yeah. I, I, I,

57:27

I sort to do with like for developers, volunteers,

57:30

desire to do it, right? I guess.

57:32

Yes. Yeah. Makes sense.

57:34

It makes sense. Yeah.

57:37

How big is the Anbanar team nowadays?

57:39

Like, do you keep an accurate track

57:41

of just how many people have worked

57:44

on the mod or active working on

57:46

the mod right now? Nope. I have

57:48

no idea. I can tell you some

57:51

stats, which,

57:53

you know, if you guys know, like

57:55

we give like a contributor role for

57:57

anyone who's contributed for this. You

58:00

know stretch of time since the

58:02

last update and this can range

58:04

from people who do consistent contributions to just

58:07

I'm a random guy who just fixed a typo and you

58:10

get I

58:12

should have that one then I Frequently

58:16

point out typos what I'm reading missionary

58:18

things The

58:21

buffer EU for contributors since

58:23

last update we have 139 people Wow. Yeah,

58:25

it's impressive. Yeah But

58:28

obviously I'm assuming maybe 30 of those

58:30

are consistently active, you know

58:34

Alright, which one is your favorite? Like

58:52

you mentioned the moon foot halflings Are there any

58:54

other like minor races that you think would make

58:56

sense at you five scale that just like there

58:58

weren't enough of Them to put them in EU

59:00

for yeah I think what

59:03

limits us a lot for adding like

59:05

racial minorities is that it is a

59:07

custom system that we've built For

59:09

it, but if they're pop see to make

59:11

whatever pops you want, right? so we can

59:13

go even more granular with you

59:16

know pops there's some like I Was

59:23

already sold but I mean it's easy to represent

59:25

them now for sure Wait,

59:28

there are two things canonically in a minute. Yes

59:31

100 is one in the current mission tree is

59:33

the only reference I've seen of them In

59:38

general like the if it's

59:40

in D&D we probably have it except for Dragonborn

59:42

because I don't like Dragonborn I'm

59:47

gonna support you. I always say well, maybe it's on

59:49

a different planet or a different plane, you know expansion

1:00:00

to end there's supposed to

1:00:03

be like bug people over

1:00:05

on the continent that's not

1:00:08

very easy to represent those guys very

1:00:10

important for the serpent spine players do

1:00:12

you think there'll be a mushroom man

1:00:14

pop I mean I don't

1:00:16

see why not it's easy to represent now

1:00:19

you know it's good I

1:00:22

love those fellas they're great okay here is my

1:00:24

wish list no

1:00:27

that's wonderful yeah it's really good I suppose

1:00:30

it all depends on like how moddable pops are

1:00:32

and like yeah I mean even then

1:00:35

like even if it's not super moddable

1:00:37

we can get away with with it you

1:00:40

know even if we don't say oh elves

1:00:42

grow really slowly even if that's not possible

1:00:44

we are still gonna do it because it's

1:00:46

part of the fantasy of the

1:00:48

game you know yeah yeah they'll be like it

1:00:50

I feel like it's gonna be even more difficult

1:00:53

to play elven races now just every war is

1:00:55

like I put I just I make one

1:00:58

a year I make one extra elf

1:01:00

I just can't like unless you make

1:01:02

me invincible gnomes please I need a

1:01:04

mage shield whatever then I

1:01:06

just can't afford now we can do like 500

1:01:08

elves equals 3,200 humans you know you can 100% do that

1:01:13

now which is awesome yeah yeah

1:01:16

there'll be ways of like jankly doing it

1:01:18

I'm sure like even if it's not you

1:01:20

know like like it is in EU4 right

1:01:23

it's like it's not gonna be it's a

1:01:25

system that works really well yeah

1:01:27

it's not gonna be less moddable than

1:01:29

you for yes I'm sure that you

1:01:32

guys would come up with something do

1:01:35

you have any ideas on potentially

1:01:37

the way that dwarven holds could

1:01:40

make use of the either

1:01:42

increased granularity or increased amount of

1:01:44

like building space like how

1:01:46

do you think that you know digging

1:01:48

deeper could could be

1:01:51

improved in EU5 yeah I have no idea

1:01:53

like the location stuff is 100% like a

1:01:55

cool opportunity

1:01:59

it's always annoying playing with holds because

1:02:01

they're free dimensional. Yes. Yes.

1:02:05

So it's like how do you represent that?

1:02:09

And I'm pretty sure that

1:02:11

is guaranteed not to be

1:02:13

in vanilla. We need code

1:02:16

support for locations that

1:02:18

exist below other locations. I

1:02:22

mean off-map countries exist,

1:02:24

so I mean it's

1:02:26

not the absolute craziest

1:02:28

thing that you can

1:02:31

100% actually represent the

1:02:33

obsidian environment that's called as

1:02:35

an organization and stuff. Well,

1:02:38

yeah, if Leanna's right and there

1:02:40

are nations who can't play, you

1:02:42

could play as the obsidian dwarves and just

1:02:44

bide your time and wait until there's no...

1:02:48

The buildings they build in other people's

1:02:50

locations could be like an obsidian gateway

1:02:52

or something. It'd just like... Yeah,

1:02:55

exactly. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Reach the surface, yeah.

1:02:59

Those inves... You could have... You

1:03:01

could play as a spelunking party or

1:03:03

something like that. No, no, no, I've

1:03:05

just thought now that we're talking about

1:03:07

obsidian legion, that's a

1:03:09

dwarven disaster. Another thing that is a

1:03:11

dwarven disaster is the bloody serpent's rot.

1:03:15

Oh no. Oh, no. Oh, no. Yes.

1:03:19

No, no, no, no. We don't know how diseases

1:03:21

are going to work yet, but I've been told

1:03:23

that I will like it. And

1:03:26

I'm a person who likes brutal diseases in strategy

1:03:28

games. And we know... I'm glad you added in

1:03:30

strategy games at the end there, that is very

1:03:32

important. Yeah, no, not so much in real life.

1:03:35

We know there are diseases, right? Death is going

1:03:37

to kill 40 to 60%

1:03:39

of Europe in basically

1:03:41

every single game that you play. Almost

1:03:45

certainly we're going to get a

1:03:47

horrific level of disease-related deaths in

1:03:49

the new world when that all

1:03:51

kicks off. Are

1:03:53

we going to see anything other than

1:03:56

the serpent's rot effect, Anbanar? We're going

1:03:58

to have a disease. mechanic

1:04:00

there as well maybe. I feel

1:04:02

like a lot of Anbanar is

1:04:04

actually just seeing

1:04:06

opportunities that the game presents. So

1:04:09

if there's, if we

1:04:12

have a disease mechanic okay but let's

1:04:14

think of some diseases so 100% we'll

1:04:16

find some stuff. Well you could even

1:04:18

do it for stuff that's not diseases

1:04:21

right? You could have what's called the

1:04:23

spirits, the new spirit disaster. Yeah, you

1:04:25

know, could call it a disease

1:04:27

but it's actually like spirits. Yeah. Yes.

1:04:29

There's also the other disease in the serpent

1:04:33

spine. It's at the start

1:04:35

of the game goblins. Goblins

1:04:38

yeah. Yeah. Yeah

1:04:43

well. Never gonna pass up enough journey to

1:04:45

riff on a goblin fan. Yeah,

1:04:47

you know what I think now

1:04:49

is dynamic like organizations you've got for GOMO

1:04:51

right? I think there

1:04:53

should be a rival organization that you could serve

1:04:56

as for gobos called the you know the international

1:04:58

gobo. I'm

1:05:03

gonna call something

1:05:05

like a rival tag.

1:05:08

I'll do it. I'm volunteering. I'm getting

1:05:10

my contribution role. So

1:05:15

Jay out of the dev diaries we've seen

1:05:17

so far what do you think you're like

1:05:19

most excited about as a modder? It's

1:05:22

well it's got to be international organizations

1:05:24

you know. And

1:05:28

obviously pops are exciting too. Even

1:05:31

the whole granularity of locations

1:05:33

and provinces and stuff that's

1:05:35

super exciting actually because

1:05:38

that allows us to have a lot more opportunities

1:05:40

for map diversity. And

1:05:44

but not used to the same

1:05:46

scale like size of map as

1:05:48

EU4. Are

1:05:50

you aware of how big EU5 map is? Yeah

1:05:52

I saw a number and I saw a comparison

1:05:55

I was like damn. Yeah

1:05:57

it's a big map. It's

1:06:00

a big boy. Yeah. Apparently,

1:06:02

it's the same scale difference

1:06:04

as looking at digital

1:06:07

cameras in 2002 versus Jesus

1:06:12

Christ. Like the amount of megapixel

1:06:14

increase. Yeah,

1:06:17

well, it's like if you scrolled from the top

1:06:19

to the bottom of EU4's map, on

1:06:22

the EU5 map, you wouldn't even be to

1:06:24

the equator yet. Really? That's

1:06:26

what I've heard. Damn. I'm

1:06:31

going to make a video on that, actually. Get all

1:06:33

of the different paradox games with their

1:06:36

maps fully represented at scale and then just keep

1:06:38

zooming out. It's like, oh, and now we get

1:06:40

to this map. And now we get to this

1:06:42

map. I'm going to

1:06:44

make that. Speaking of maps, actually adjacent to

1:06:46

maps, do you know what I'm not excited

1:06:48

for? For Andamanar? Is

1:06:51

this little picture of Spain that's got all

1:06:53

the pop numbers? Oh,

1:06:56

right. You

1:06:58

just have to make them up. Yeah,

1:07:01

no, I mean, like, I

1:07:03

have plans to do a

1:07:05

fairly ambitious mod for EU5.

1:07:08

Nice. It is.

1:07:10

I already have spreadsheets of numbers that

1:07:12

I have been putting together. In

1:07:14

fairness, isn't your mod going to

1:07:17

be post-apocalyptic where those numbers are

1:07:19

much smaller? That's

1:07:21

part of the joy of it. Numbers

1:07:24

are a lot smaller

1:07:26

and yeah, the performance

1:07:29

should be great. Yeah.

1:07:33

Well, this isn't directly Andamanar

1:07:35

related, but the Tinto

1:07:37

Talks number 13 came out today. And I

1:07:40

think we're going to slide this into this

1:07:42

episode so that the next regular

1:07:44

Patreon episode doesn't end up being

1:07:46

five hours long. But

1:07:50

yeah, not a lot of

1:07:52

super surprising stuff here. We

1:07:55

see that, you know, religions have

1:07:58

varying degrees of... hostility towards each

1:08:01

other. They

1:08:03

can be kindred enemies or negative,

1:08:06

which that is probably a name that

1:08:08

will change. Yeah. You

1:08:12

can consider somebody to be true faith,

1:08:14

heathen or heretic, similar to you four.

1:08:17

There's tolerance of the true faith, just like you

1:08:20

four. And

1:08:22

no more missionaries, you're gonna have to build

1:08:24

buildings to convert pops. So. Is

1:08:28

there anything in the dev diary that particularly

1:08:31

excited you as a modder, Jay? Cool. I

1:08:34

mean, I guess none of it is a

1:08:36

surprise, I suppose. The building thing

1:08:38

has actually raised a big question for

1:08:41

me, because in the picture,

1:08:43

it's just pop conversion speed, but is

1:08:46

that to a particular religion? Like, if

1:08:48

I'm the Ottoman Empire, can I keep churches around?

1:08:53

Just because I like the bonuses, you know? I'm

1:08:55

assuming yes, but it doesn't, you know, hopefully

1:08:58

it's not a case like in EU four, where you

1:09:00

conquer a church and then, oh, by the way, it's

1:09:02

now a mosque. Actually, having said

1:09:04

that out loud, exactly what

1:09:06

they did. Yeah,

1:09:09

no, scrap that. That's yeah. But

1:09:12

I'm hoping, you know, I'm

1:09:14

hoping it's not that, because that's maybe a bit too

1:09:17

binary, I guess. Yeah. Well,

1:09:20

yeah, I hope so too. Even just for vanilla E5, like

1:09:23

if I want to convert, for example, Muslims in

1:09:25

Spain, I don't want to be converting Jews

1:09:28

along with them, right? Because I think they should

1:09:30

always be a minority Jewish population unless,

1:09:33

you know, and in

1:09:35

most of Europe. For example, if I'm converting

1:09:38

people from Catholics to Protestants in Germany, I

1:09:40

don't want to be converting Jews along with them. So,

1:09:44

yeah, I would hope there's differences.

1:09:47

There's also the issue that like,

1:09:49

if you have like an ethno

1:09:51

religion like Judaism, like the culture,

1:09:54

like Jewish culture pops should

1:09:56

not really convert away from

1:09:58

the Jewish religion. This

1:10:01

is just a core issue with how

1:10:03

Paradox models culture and religion in general,

1:10:05

which is that in a lot of

1:10:07

cases, that's not like a

1:10:09

hard line. Sometimes

1:10:11

it's fuzzier than that. Where

1:10:13

does the culture stop in

1:10:15

the religion charts? Yeah. Yeah.

1:10:19

Yeah. Yeah. Do you know

1:10:22

what might be a nice thing that would

1:10:24

be moddable if the relationships can change in

1:10:26

game? Yes, that would be good. So like

1:10:28

we could become from Kindred to enemy and

1:10:30

stuff. That might be really cool to play

1:10:32

around. Yeah. That might be the case,

1:10:34

but it was confirmed in the comments that that

1:10:36

is also set. Damn. Yeah.

1:10:40

That one, that was a bit disappointing. I was

1:10:42

hoping that would be able to change. Could you

1:10:44

change it by an event though? Yeah. Like

1:10:47

if you're modding in an event that could

1:10:49

change it. Events probably could actually. Yeah.

1:10:52

Is it one of those things for a fall

1:10:54

under? Is that that's definitely hard coded or is

1:10:56

it scriptable? I doubt that is

1:10:58

something that will be hard coded. It doesn't

1:11:00

seem like it would be a massive like

1:11:03

deal to change a

1:11:05

value from enemy to negative to. Yeah.

1:11:10

You know how it is. Yes. Yes.

1:11:14

I mean, it may not be hard. Let's get

1:11:16

you. Let's get you. It's not guaranteed to do

1:11:18

it. Yeah. Yeah.

1:11:22

Yeah. Because they'll have to

1:11:24

make like a script system, etc, etc, for

1:11:26

it. And sometimes they just don't. So

1:11:31

in vanilla, we're going to

1:11:33

get Christian Muslim Eastern Darmic

1:11:35

Zoroastrian Manichean Judean

1:11:37

Andean, which is, you know,

1:11:40

like Inti and stuff and

1:11:42

pagan religious groups. I

1:11:45

don't think Andean was its own religious group in.

1:11:49

Any four. So that's interesting

1:11:51

that there will probably be

1:11:53

multiple Andean religions. We've

1:11:57

got Anglicanism, Boggamalism. Christiani, which

1:12:00

is the Bosnian church. Calvinism

1:12:04

and Lutheranism are now just called Calvinism

1:12:06

and Lutheranism. They're not Protestant and reformed

1:12:10

Catholicism. We got the who sites. We got

1:12:12

lawlords. We got me a fizz sites, which

1:12:14

is seems like they're grouping

1:12:16

like, um, uh, like the

1:12:18

Coptic Christians under that. Is

1:12:21

that what they did in EU for as well? They call

1:12:23

them me a fist. No, they call it

1:12:25

Coptic. Okay. Yeah. That's what I thought.

1:12:28

Um, historians, Orthodox

1:12:30

and strigle in the chest,

1:12:32

though, which I had to look up and it was

1:12:34

a, uh, a

1:12:36

Russian popular heresy in the early

1:12:39

1300s. Um,

1:12:42

there was kind of anti Orthodox

1:12:45

or against the Orthodox clerical structure.

1:12:47

So they have sort of their own

1:12:50

little mini reformation going

1:12:52

on. Historically, it didn't go anywhere,

1:12:54

but, um, yeah.

1:12:57

Um, work in progress.

1:12:59

There's a few others I'd like to see. Yeah.

1:13:02

I really want to see it's swing gliism is its

1:13:04

own. Yeah. I'd like to see a

1:13:07

lot more different types of Protestant. Uh,

1:13:10

yeah. Um, they

1:13:12

mentioned that Confucianism isn't going to be a

1:13:14

religion anymore. So we can see that currently

1:13:16

all of China is Mahayana Buddhist, which I'm

1:13:18

not sure. I

1:13:21

think the Buddhist is the blue

1:13:23

stripes. As

1:13:25

in they are a significant religious

1:13:27

minority. Oh, is that, I

1:13:30

think that's, I guess that's what the space

1:13:32

mean is if you have over 40% of

1:13:35

a population, then you are going

1:13:37

to be classed as, um, like

1:13:39

a minor and you'll be on

1:13:41

the map as that. I think that's just what

1:13:43

that means. If you look

1:13:45

like right between, um, like Persia

1:13:48

and India, like the Sindh area,

1:13:50

you can also see Mahayana on

1:13:52

the map and it is. Hmm.

1:13:55

So that blue is probably like Nongchos

1:13:58

or like Tibetan Buddhism, maybe. I

1:14:00

don't know. Okay. Speak to

1:14:03

myself. So the Mahayana covering over a

1:14:05

little bit of the SUNY in that,

1:14:07

you know Area

1:14:09

to I don't know actually know what

1:14:12

what that region is called. Is it still the Tibetan plateau?

1:14:15

But yeah, there's some some Mahayana over there as

1:14:17

well speaking of it's

1:14:19

been playing all the mountain ranges and stuff it might

1:14:21

be a map

1:14:24

in vanilla you for has a lot

1:14:26

more passes and you

1:14:30

Know various choke points and stuff so I got

1:14:32

a feeling that the arts gonna play a significant

1:14:34

part in the gameplay and If

1:14:37

you're adapting and Bernard Jay, would you?

1:14:41

Include more more passes

1:14:43

in a way like in Sahel would you

1:14:45

have deserts with desert roads, etc?

1:14:49

Yes In jet

1:14:51

in year for I kind of have

1:14:53

a love-hate relationship with these passes and

1:14:56

impassable mountains and stuff But again,

1:14:58

you know adaptation, right? Yeah

1:15:02

Yeah, I like them because I play a

1:15:04

lot of Imperator and that's basically a lot

1:15:06

of Imperator has these impassable areas I'm a

1:15:08

big fan, especially, you know with Warfare

1:15:13

makes sense to plan your your

1:15:15

defensiveness around these passes and I think

1:15:18

it just increases the the

1:15:21

amount of Believability

1:15:24

of warfare really Having

1:15:27

just armies march over mountains.

1:15:29

Willy Milly is a little bit less

1:15:31

believable Yeah, an interesting one

1:15:33

is like the entire south coast of Iceland

1:15:36

is uninhabitable now, which is fairly

1:15:38

realistic you don't want to live there but

1:15:42

I know it's like Russia. For example

1:15:44

is just a series of like Snakey

1:15:47

lines, right? Yeah Which

1:15:49

is interesting Siberia is here It

1:15:52

looks Most of it

1:15:54

looks fairly reasonable to me. I have

1:15:56

some issues with North America, but I've

1:15:58

already submitted those to the content designer

1:16:01

team. I think they

1:16:03

have a little bit. They have a

1:16:05

little bit too much impossible terrain going

1:16:07

on on the high plains. But oh,

1:16:09

that's that's another thing, too. Like speaking

1:16:11

of America, so vanilla is pretty much

1:16:14

we're guaranteed to have some

1:16:16

form of Colombian

1:16:19

exchange mechanic. Right. Yeah.

1:16:23

Would you say Ambanar would have a Colombian

1:16:26

exchange type mechanic of some kind?

1:16:28

Are there anything? Are

1:16:30

there any like resources, etc, that would come

1:16:33

back and forth from the new world to

1:16:35

the old world, etc? I

1:16:37

mean, probably. Again,

1:16:40

it's kind of like this is before

1:16:44

I when I was doing Ambanar, like

1:16:47

I did like a thesis on like world

1:16:49

building and making a sense in using you

1:16:51

for. And one of the big

1:16:53

things was that. Adapting

1:16:56

it to a game makes forces you to

1:16:58

answer questions that you might not have thought

1:17:01

about. So this

1:17:03

is just one of those questions, right?

1:17:05

Now we can simulate it. How

1:17:08

does it fit for us? Are there

1:17:10

potatoes? I was going to say, yeah, yeah. Yeah,

1:17:14

exactly. Yeah, the elves, if

1:17:16

they if they were potatoes,

1:17:18

they have over when they,

1:17:20

you know, came on their boats.

1:17:22

So the Colombian

1:17:24

exchange may have happened 1400 years ago. I

1:17:27

was going to say, like, the back is

1:17:29

canonically, you

1:17:31

know, already in the old world, right? It's

1:17:33

just only in one problem. Yeah. Of

1:17:36

a new world, I should say. And I think maybe

1:17:38

we won't have a one to one kind of thing

1:17:40

because, like, you know, it's

1:17:42

funny if halflings have potatoes.

1:17:45

Yes, of course. Yeah. Yeah,

1:17:47

that's more important. You know, it's

1:17:50

funny. It's

1:17:52

with Samwise rule. You have to go

1:17:54

by. I mean, one part

1:17:56

of that could literally be the precursor relics. That's,

1:17:58

you know, precursor relics. out the new

1:18:00

potatoes. It's all the rage. The

1:18:04

other really interesting thing about this map and

1:18:06

your hand has basically confirmed that animist means

1:18:08

work in progress. Yeah, though it's not like

1:18:11

a third of the world's going to be

1:18:13

animist, but already we have

1:18:15

123456. It

1:18:19

looks like maybe even seven,

1:18:21

eight different indigenous religions in

1:18:23

North America, which is cool.

1:18:27

I don't know where they got the data from because

1:18:29

we don't have a lot of info

1:18:32

on the religious practices of most of those

1:18:34

groups. I imagine it's like CK3 where they

1:18:36

just sort of made it up. Yeah,

1:18:39

it was kind of silly to just have

1:18:42

the whole continent be totamist until you got

1:18:44

down to the Aztecs. Speaking

1:18:47

of, you see that little bit

1:18:49

of red in Northern Canada? I

1:18:52

have a crackpot theory. Is that

1:18:54

Norse? I

1:18:59

have a crackpot theory that it's Norse.

1:19:01

It would be such a meme. Oh

1:19:04

my god, I thought

1:19:06

I always thought they were in like just

1:19:08

Newfoundland, but I guess that

1:19:10

would maybe make a bit more sense for them

1:19:12

to be there. That problem says two

1:19:15

pops and it dies within two seconds. Oh

1:19:17

yeah, no, 100%. Well, because I don't know

1:19:20

what else it would be other than we just

1:19:22

haven't filled it in yet. But because

1:19:25

Greenland is Catholic, they've said Greenland is

1:19:27

Catholic and we can see the three

1:19:29

little Greek Catholic settlements in Greenland on

1:19:31

the map. I'm

1:19:34

assuming that the

1:19:38

green religion is...

1:19:42

I want to make sure I'm getting the name

1:19:46

right.

1:19:49

It's not Athabascan, is it?

1:19:53

There's also a dark gray one there along

1:19:55

the coastlines in Northern Canada as well. El

1:19:57

Gomquian. I'm pretty sure the green religion is

1:19:59

a... Algonquian. So

1:20:01

like there should be Inuit up there as

1:20:03

well. I don't I don't maybe that's the

1:20:06

the dark blue in the top left but

1:20:09

yeah because

1:20:12

the the the sort of like light

1:20:14

brown around the Great Lakes that's definitely

1:20:17

Iroquoian. And

1:20:19

then I think the yellow is probably Suin.

1:20:23

Um and then there's Athabascan

1:20:25

but yeah I and that

1:20:28

blue for that you said might be Inuit maybe

1:20:30

doesn't make so much sense when you see

1:20:32

that there is also the exact same shade of

1:20:34

blue in the middle of

1:20:37

the Americas. Yeah I don't

1:20:39

know. We'll have to see the the actual

1:20:41

map diary to figure out what's going on

1:20:43

there. One thing that was missing in this

1:20:45

dev diary I think that I would really

1:20:47

like to know we've already know that there's

1:20:49

going to be unique mechanics for those religions

1:20:51

but it wasn't mentioned how that's

1:20:53

going to work. And I was

1:20:56

I I hope there's not a system where

1:20:59

you know it's a Protestant mechanic and

1:21:02

when you're modding it you have to use the

1:21:04

Protestant mechanic or there's a Shinto mechanic and you

1:21:06

have to use Shinto mechanic. I hope it's

1:21:09

very scriptable I hope. Yeah

1:21:11

that'd be nice. Yeah I do

1:21:14

there was some stuff that really really didn't

1:21:16

line up any for like the fact that

1:21:18

the Shinto religion gave

1:21:20

you all of the relevant disasters

1:21:23

for Japan. Yes yeah. I think

1:21:25

those weren't really tied to the fact that

1:21:28

it's Shinto. You have to work within that

1:21:30

framework when you're modding right? So

1:21:33

yeah we already know that Catholic

1:21:35

has got it so that's very moddable we

1:21:37

know about already right? Because that's just tied

1:21:39

to the IO system. Yes. Yeah

1:21:43

sorry I assume that's going to

1:21:45

work the same way with rebellion or whatever. Yeah it's going to

1:21:47

be the same thing. They've

1:21:50

removed confusion from being a religion so Jay

1:21:52

I'm curious like is there anything in Anbanar

1:21:54

that you feel like would now make more

1:21:57

sense as not a religion

1:21:59

but maybe as an international organization or do

1:22:01

you think it'll map the religion map

1:22:03

will be pretty similar? Probably

1:22:07

be similar. Obviously there's some candidates

1:22:10

like the thought is that a

1:22:12

religion. There's

1:22:15

the guys in KNI.

1:22:19

Right now in Victoria Free, I think we've

1:22:21

made them all atheists. Right.

1:22:23

But the thought is still the thought

1:22:25

because it's kind of got the trappings of

1:22:28

religion. I

1:22:30

think they'll probably. Thoughtless. Yeah, exactly.

1:22:32

Well, that's a question, right? Like, is

1:22:35

an atheist the same as a god-lost person? I

1:22:41

never had him to lose him in the first place. Interesting.

1:22:49

Yeah. Do you think there'll be any new

1:22:52

ones other than adding new areas that haven't

1:22:54

been on the map before? I

1:22:59

think we have to reevaluate a lot of

1:23:01

stuff. Well, not reevaluate, but like, it's

1:23:04

the time to add stuff that people think

1:23:07

weren't there. Well, we know

1:23:09

there's religious minorities now, right? And

1:23:12

I think a, I know we're

1:23:15

big fans, made you

1:23:17

of really, what's

1:23:19

it called, tropey fantasy. And

1:23:22

a staple of tropey fantasy

1:23:24

is cults. Right. So

1:23:29

could you envision religious

1:23:32

minority cult mechanics maybe for

1:23:34

like the Infernal Court or something? Yeah,

1:23:38

isn't there like an evil Regent Court

1:23:40

in the Bit Pocket right now? Yeah.

1:23:43

Yep. That is a

1:23:45

question actually. That

1:23:49

is a question because you could also, it depends

1:23:52

how obvious you want the cults to

1:23:54

be. So they could exist

1:23:56

as a secret IO or, you know,

1:23:58

just as IO before they. spring to

1:24:00

life. Oh, yeah.

1:24:02

Yeah. Yes. Which you can handle cults like

1:24:05

that as well. Because I always

1:24:07

have progression. So exactly.

1:24:09

You can have a

1:24:11

secret vampire international. Exactly. Oh,

1:24:13

wonderful. Wonderful. Yes. And you could

1:24:15

reform the, if there's one vampire

1:24:28

IO, you could reform that into the blood core. Yeah.

1:24:31

Yes. Amazing.

1:24:35

That sounds amazing. Yes. Yeah. Brilliant.

1:24:39

All right. Well,

1:24:42

any final thoughts before we wrap

1:24:44

up? Nope.

1:24:47

Are you excited about? I

1:24:49

feel like I gained so

1:24:51

much information that I missed

1:24:53

from EU five. So

1:24:56

I'm super excited. Yeah. Jay, where could

1:24:58

people go if they want to find

1:25:00

out more about and and our, um,

1:25:03

just search and been our, um, a

1:25:06

N B E N N A R.

1:25:08

Um, we have a discord. That's

1:25:10

the most active, uh, thing. And we

1:25:13

also have a subreddit. So those are the

1:25:15

kind of two community platforms we have. Can

1:25:18

I just say too, as a

1:25:20

hopeless dyslexic, I appreciate you

1:25:22

making a fantasy name for a world that

1:25:24

is also phonetic. It's

1:25:27

always, it's always a

1:25:32

silent letter in most fantasy worlds.

1:25:34

It's impossible to spell out. There's

1:25:37

a mod for CK, uh, uh,

1:25:40

good Jira. Yeah. Yeah. It was

1:25:42

behind the snack for that was

1:25:44

for war hammer. Yeah.

1:25:48

I've never been able to spell Kaiser Reich. It's

1:25:51

very good mod, but no idea. You

1:25:55

guys know the story of why I named it. And

1:25:57

then all right. an

1:26:00

R because it started in A so it appears at the

1:26:02

top of a list. Oh my

1:26:04

god. Oh wow. It's

1:26:08

named for SEO purposes. Wow.

1:26:12

I mean, at the end of the day, if it works,

1:26:14

it works. Yeah, it works, yeah. The

1:26:17

ones that always mess me up

1:26:19

are in Sarhol. Like, we've argued

1:26:21

so long about how you pronounce

1:26:23

Bierzartancius. I mean, that's

1:26:25

my pronunciation of it, actually. Celadora,

1:26:29

not Caledora. I will die on this film. James

1:26:33

Dio or James Earle. Oh my

1:26:35

god, yeah. Loris,

1:26:39

where can people find you? Uh,

1:26:41

chapelcomic.com, Father Loris on Twitter,

1:26:43

and I'll read it, etc,

1:26:45

etc. Nothing,

1:26:47

nothing controversial going on there at all.

1:26:50

Yes, it really wasn't controversial. It's like

1:26:52

94,000 episodes. Yeah, it was. Yeah, I

1:26:54

have a few people arguing in the

1:26:56

comments. It wasn't as controversial

1:26:59

as I can imagine. I know where

1:27:01

the controversial thing is. They're the last

1:27:03

panel. Yeah,

1:27:06

so lots of people just didn't notice the last panel,

1:27:08

which is quite nice. Which is typical

1:27:11

of Victoria Free fans, so they

1:27:13

don't notice things that they maybe just went to

1:27:15

like. But,

1:27:19

yes, it's more comics.

1:27:22

I should make more of them, and they're comics too, to be fair. You

1:27:25

should make more of them. I need to

1:27:27

make another one about goblins, because they're back.

1:27:30

Goblins are back. I think the last one

1:27:32

up there was pretty good. Fair

1:27:34

play. And I'm very excited to see the new goblin

1:27:36

stuff in Canorty. Looks

1:27:38

really cool. Hope it's funny. Very

1:27:42

important. Lambert,

1:27:45

where can people find you? I

1:27:47

am Lord Lambe on YouTube. I

1:27:49

cover the Tinto talks in some

1:27:51

depth three times a week. I'm

1:27:55

also on Twitch as LordLambert underscore,

1:27:57

where I play a lot of

1:27:59

anime. But yeah, no, I've been

1:28:01

I've been having a good time.

1:28:05

Recently, I've got another multiplayer in

1:28:07

Ambinar starting this day, next week. And

1:28:10

I'm very much looking forward to that. Excellent.

1:28:15

Yeah. Three Moves Ahead is hosted on the idle thumbs network. You

1:28:20

can find us there at idle thumbs.net/three. Am

1:28:23

a were three. Am a. Am

1:28:25

a. And yeah, it's not an easy way

1:28:27

to do it. Am a were

1:28:29

three. Am a on Twitter and blue sky.

1:28:32

I'm till folk following on Twitter. I'm land

1:28:34

on blue sky. Well, I have enough.

1:28:38

That's interesting. Nothing. Nothing

1:28:40

really strategy related. In

1:28:44

about four months. No, I know about in about a

1:28:46

month. You'll have another four hour three. Am

1:28:49

I supported by listeners like

1:28:51

you on Patreon? That's patreon.com/three.

1:28:53

Am a were recently

1:28:56

we've been talking for upwards

1:28:58

of four. Hours about you

1:29:00

five dev diaries and people

1:29:02

seem to like it. It's been it's

1:29:05

been doing well. Nice. You had

1:29:07

even commented and said that we should make

1:29:09

them longer and do them more often. So

1:29:13

by the way, you and if you're listening,

1:29:15

please give a early access to yes. Yes.

1:29:18

No, that's something. Get this.

1:29:20

Get this guy build right now. Yes.

1:29:24

Builds for like, you know, his inner

1:29:26

cabal of high tier

1:29:28

and banal models. Don't put it

1:29:30

all on J shoulders. Yes.

1:29:32

You need to have one programmer at Tinto

1:29:34

who is responsible for fielding code requests from

1:29:36

the and banard team. My own

1:29:39

taxes has that and but I get on to

1:29:41

it. Yeah. Well,

1:29:43

they have to have a run. Yeah.

1:29:47

They even pay him. Yeah.

1:29:50

You need to you need to have work on

1:29:52

your infiltration skills. Yeah.

1:29:55

Yeah. Yeah. Thanks

1:29:59

for our Patreon. producers Mark M

1:30:01

in Bucktown and we will see

1:30:04

you again soon. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.

1:30:06

See you.