0:01

It's kind of like learning to drive. Kerry

0:03

Miller says there are five reasons you

0:06

should learn to scuba dive to see a big part of the world you've

0:09

been missing out on underwater. The

0:11

ocean is absolutely for everybody, and the more we learn

0:13

about it, the more impressive it is.

0:16

Mediterranean forms a dramatic relationship with the

0:18

cliffs an hour or so south of

0:20

Naples. We'll get insider advice

0:22

for getting past the crowds to enjoy

0:24

the view along Italy's Amalfi Coast. It's

0:27

where staggeringly picturesque scenery is

0:30

the setting for full-bodied life among the

0:32

lemon groves. Everything in full-flavored

0:34

basil, tomatoes, the cheese, it's just

0:37

all flavorful. Or hike the

0:39

many miles of coastal paths in the

0:41

southwest of England with their own dramatic ocean

0:43

views. And there's usually a

0:45

country in nearby to rest up and

0:47

enjoy afternoon tea. Oh, my gosh,

0:49

this is the most wonderful place for you to be

0:52

having your cream teas. Come

0:54

along for the hour ahead. It's Travel with

0:56

Rick Steves. In

1:00

England, they're completing the longest coastal trail

1:02

system in the world and naming it

1:04

for King Charles III. In

1:07

a bit, a guide from Bristol gets us

1:09

ready to hike the southwest parts of the

1:11

Coast Trail. It's a marked

1:13

series of paths that can take you

1:15

from Somerset to Dorset the long and

1:17

scenic way around the Cornwall Peninsula. And

1:20

a guide who lives just up the

1:22

hill from Sorrento helps us tackle the

1:24

breathtaking views and the crowds along Italy's

1:26

Amalfi Coast. Let's start today's

1:29

Travel with Rick Steves, looking for the

1:31

different world that exists just offshore and

1:33

under the sea. Carrie

1:35

Miller and her husband Chris Taylor have written

1:37

A Diver's Guide to the World, remarkable

1:40

dive travel destinations above and beneath

1:42

the surface. She joins

1:44

us from their home in Byron Bay, Australia,

1:46

now with five reasons to convince the rest

1:48

of us to learn how to scuba dive.

1:52

Carrie, welcome. Thank you so much for having me.

1:55

You know, you wrote a National Geographic article and

1:57

this was quite an inspiration, and in

1:59

it you wrote that... Diving made your

2:01

world a bigger place. Tell

2:03

me about that moment. What happened? Well,

2:06

the ocean covers 70% of our planet's surface. So

2:10

if we're just sticking to the land, we're missing out

2:12

on what most of the world has to offer. I've

2:15

always been a lifelong water baby

2:17

and avid snorkeler, and

2:19

it wasn't until I started diving that I

2:21

realized just how much I was missing out

2:23

on. Hmm. You know,

2:25

it's something that a lot of us dream

2:28

about and imagine doing, and some people probably

2:30

think it's more involved than it actually is

2:32

to get up and running as a diver.

2:34

If you're a good swimmer, if you're sort

2:37

of determined and want to get this done,

2:39

how involved is it to actually become

2:42

comfortable diving? Where in your

2:45

travels you could go diving somewhere, but

2:47

you've got to be certified, right? Well,

2:49

you don't need to be certified to learn

2:51

to dive. A lot of dive places offer

2:53

what's called a DSD, which stands for Discover

2:55

Scuba Dive. You go through

2:58

some basic skill practices to make sure that you're

3:00

going to be comfortable underwater, and

3:02

then you go on a discovery dive,

3:04

just you and the guide in a

3:06

shallow, easy-to-dive environment.

3:09

From there, if you decide that that's what you really like, then

3:11

you can go out and get certified, which

3:13

is kind of like learning to drive a car. You

3:15

study the theory, you practice with an instructor,

3:17

and then from there you go out and

3:19

start diving. Now, it's old

3:21

hat for you, but for me, I love snorkeling, and

3:25

then if all of a sudden I could

3:27

snorkel underwater, I mean, it's basically you're breathing

3:29

on an apparatus like your snorkel, right? Do

3:31

you just get comfortable with that? It's total

3:34

trust in your gear. Well,

3:36

it is. Your scuba equipment is your life support

3:38

system, and you are aware of that, so you

3:40

just have to be mindful. It is

3:43

very similar to driving a car. Just driving

3:45

to the shops can be a very

3:47

dangerous experience. That's true. So it's just about

3:49

taking precautions. So you make sure that your

3:52

equipment is in good nick. You

3:54

make sure that the shop that you're diving

3:56

with is responsible and reputable, and you are

3:58

responsible for that. for your own safety

4:00

down there. So if you feel uncomfortable, you end

4:03

a dive. It's all about making

4:05

sure that you're diving within your limits and

4:07

then that takes time and that changes for

4:09

every person and every diver as well. Now

4:12

you wrote that inexperienced divers are

4:14

busy, but diving's about being

4:16

calm and measured. Yes,

4:18

and I'm not. I

4:21

mean, because I think diving to me, I would

4:24

not want to be nervous. I would want to

4:26

be really with the current, with

4:28

the scene, I'd want to forget everything

4:30

except where I'm at right now. Diving

4:33

is very zen. It has a way of

4:35

forcing you to be present in the moment

4:37

and I think that's why I gravitate to

4:39

it. I have a very busy mind and

4:41

actually a lot of people in professions like

4:44

doctors or firefighters, they dive because

4:46

they have to be present, they

4:48

have to be focused and they

4:50

can completely shut out their everyday

4:52

lives and just be in the

4:54

moment. Can you paint a

4:56

picture for me of the stillness and the

4:59

colors and the flow and the tiny fish

5:01

flickering in the sun rays in a

5:03

beautiful moment? Because there's

5:05

so many different landscapes underwater, more

5:07

than you'd ever imagine, you could

5:10

be finning your way through a

5:12

kelp forest that's swaying gently with

5:14

the current back and forth. You

5:17

could go over what you think is

5:19

just an empty landscape of sand and

5:21

then notice a whole bunch of garden eels,

5:23

a whole field of them and they're like

5:25

these little candy canes, Dr. Seuss kind of

5:27

creatures sticking out, just poking their

5:30

heads out of the sand and then as soon

5:32

as you swim up to them, they all disappear

5:34

and it's just this landscape of sand again. You

5:36

could be finning next to a coral reef and

5:38

it's this busy city that's going on completely independent

5:41

of you. Each fish has its own job to

5:43

do and they're flickering in and out of corals

5:45

that are in purples and oranges and pinks and

5:48

then you can be in a

5:50

big open ocean environment like out

5:52

in the Pacific somewhere where it's

5:54

sharky and it's murky and it's

5:57

big stuff happening and that just gets

5:59

your adrenaline. going and it's phenomenal. I

6:01

remember that snorkeling in the shallow area and then

6:03

you get to the place where all of a

6:05

sudden it becomes deep and then

6:07

you venture out there and it's a whole different

6:10

world isn't it? It's wild. It's a different environment.

6:12

Completely. Wow. This is Travel with Rick Steves. We've

6:14

been talking with Keri Miller who's sharing her love

6:16

of scuba diving. Her books on

6:18

diving include A Hundred Dives of a

6:21

Lifetime, The World's Ultimate Underwater Destinations, and

6:23

the National Geographic book, A Diver's Guide

6:26

to the World. Remarkable dive travel destinations

6:28

above and beneath the surface. She

6:31

co-authored that with her husband and dive

6:33

buddy, Chris Taylor. If you want to

6:35

learn more about their work and their

6:37

diving, you can go to beneath the

6:39

surface media on Instagram. Keri,

6:41

you wrote about five lessons you learn when

6:43

you're steep on the learning curve in this

6:45

whole diving thing. First of all, you talked

6:47

about meeting interesting people. Absolutely.

6:49

There's people from all walks of life dive and

6:52

that's one of the things that I love the

6:54

most is that the dive community

6:56

is incredibly welcoming. It doesn't matter. You meet

6:58

so many people who are just broke and

7:00

diving their way around the world and working

7:02

from dive shop to dive shop simply because

7:04

they love the ocean. Then you meet people

7:06

who are rocket scientists and you meet people

7:08

who are introverts and

7:11

extroverts. Can you meet your husband? Yeah,

7:13

that's how I met my husband was diving. When

7:16

you were talking about the lessons

7:18

from diving, you also talked about

7:20

not being afraid of sharks. I

7:23

mean, the average human being is terrified of sharks

7:25

and you literally swim with them. I

7:28

wish that was something that I could

7:30

share with everybody actually is that experience

7:32

of diving with sharks because they

7:35

are the most charismatic animal and we don't

7:37

really know how many species there are somewhere

7:39

between 400 to 500 and very few species

7:42

actually have

7:44

negative interactions with humans. Most of

7:46

them are not interested in us

7:48

at all and they're actually the

7:50

sign of a healthy ocean ecosystem. So if

7:53

you see one is actually really, really good

7:55

luck. Also, you wrote about how

7:57

you can be an explorer. about

8:00

the exploring nature of scuba diving?

8:03

I think a lot of people have

8:05

a perception that exploration is adrenaline

8:07

fueled and pushing the limits right to the

8:09

edge. And I think diving

8:11

sometimes has that perception that it needs

8:14

to be deep and

8:16

dark and pushing limits and that's

8:18

not the case. To

8:20

me, exploration is observation. So a

8:23

lot of times people can be explorers

8:25

just simply in their own backyard by

8:27

studying one thing carefully and quietly and

8:29

over a prolonged period of time. Diving

8:33

is similar to hiking in a lot of

8:35

ways where you could go around

8:37

a botanic garden or you can go do the

8:39

Pacific Coast Trail and you can do everything in

8:41

between and that's similar for diving. If all you

8:43

want to do is nose around colorful coral reefs

8:46

in warm water, you can do that.

8:48

If you want to go push limits and start

8:50

tech diving and go down to some really deep

8:52

shipwrecks, you can do that too. I

8:54

don't like doing that. I like the coral reefs. I

8:57

like my sharks. I

8:59

like my sharks. Another thing you

9:01

wrote, Kerry, was that you gain a

9:03

unique perspective that you would never have

9:05

if you didn't experience the sea from

9:08

underneath. The Earth is 70% water

9:10

and I think we take that for granted. I've

9:13

always been a nature lover.

9:15

I love going hiking. I love being in

9:18

natural environments. And I

9:21

was surprised how my sense of

9:23

conservation was kicked into overdrive when

9:25

I started diving and I still

9:27

haven't quite put my finger on

9:29

why. I don't know if it's because

9:31

we see the damage more clearly. It's more

9:33

of a bit of a gut punch when you're underwater. I think

9:35

we become used to it on land

9:37

and then when you see it underwater, it really is

9:40

confrontational. You know, I

9:43

bet it's related to how astronauts have

9:45

a better appreciation of the beauty and

9:47

the fragility of our world when they've

9:49

looked at it from space and

9:51

an aquanaut could probably have that same benefit

9:53

when they see this world submarine.

9:55

Yeah, it's called the

9:57

overview effect and I think you're absolutely right. about

10:00

that, there is a real

10:02

interconnectivity that you see when you dive

10:04

about how everything fits together and how

10:07

if we start removing something like pulling

10:09

pieces out of your car engine or

10:11

pulling pieces out of your computer, it

10:13

has a catastrophic effect on how the

10:16

whole system works. It's responsible for half

10:18

of our oxygen. It absorbs carbon dioxide.

10:20

It regulates our climate. It supports much

10:23

of the world's economy. So learning more

10:25

about the ocean and protecting it is

10:27

so important. Carrie, we're just

10:29

about out of time, but I just

10:31

love this notion that you pointed out

10:33

in your writing that scuba diving may

10:35

not be for everyone, but the ocean

10:37

is. And you wrote quite

10:40

eloquently about how getting certified was

10:42

frustrating at first, but on

10:44

your fifth try, you made it and

10:46

that freed you to have this whole new

10:48

appreciation of a huge, huge part

10:51

of the world that we live in. Well,

10:54

not everyone takes diving straight away, but

10:56

the ocean is absolutely for everybody. It's

10:58

so important. And the more we learn

11:00

about it, the more impressive it is.

11:02

It really just, yeah,

11:04

made my world bigger, opened it up, and

11:07

it was such a gift. When

11:09

I was reading A Diver's Guide to the World, you

11:12

talked about the value and

11:14

the fragility of the Florida reef

11:16

tract, for example, the third largest

11:18

such reef tract in the world.

11:21

That's an example of an awareness

11:23

that you gained because you scuba

11:25

dived. The ocean

11:27

is our shared life support system. The

11:29

Florida reef tract, for example, that you're

11:32

referencing, it protects Florida from storms. It

11:35

helps prevent coastal flooding. It's

11:37

home to this thriving marine

11:39

ecosystem. And it brings in, I think,

11:41

close to a billion dollars annually in

11:43

tourism revenue. Like it's a no brainer

11:45

to protect it. It makes sense across

11:48

the board, whether you're looking at

11:50

it from a financial perspective or an

11:52

ecological perspective. It just makes sense.

11:54

A green economy is a thriving economy, or

11:56

we should basically say a green-blue economy is

11:59

a thriving economy. And

12:01

like you wrote when it comes to the ocean,

12:03

we need it more than it needs us.

12:05

Absolutely. And whether you're

12:07

a diver or just somebody who

12:09

loves to travel and appreciates the

12:11

ocean, it's really important to understand

12:13

that because we need more

12:15

people to see the sea, we need more people to

12:19

advocate for its protection. Amen.

12:21

Carrie Miller, thanks for joining us

12:23

and thanks for inspiring me to

12:25

seriously consider getting a little

12:28

bit beyond snorkeling and stepping into one of those

12:30

dive shops and checking out the world from a

12:32

new perspective. Well, if we can convince you to

12:34

come to Byron Bay, we'll take you diving anytime. I'd

12:37

love that more than you can imagine. Best

12:40

wishes, Carrie. Thanks again for being with us. Thank you

12:42

very much. Carrie

12:51

Miller writes for Scuba Diving Magazine

12:53

and National Geographic. She

12:55

and her husband, Chris Taylor, recommend 50

12:57

locations for deep sea diving in their

13:00

book, A Diver's Guide to the World,

13:02

and in 100 Dives of a

13:04

Lifetime, the World's Ultimate Underwater

13:07

Destinations. They also

13:09

post underwater photos to Facebook

13:11

and Instagram at Beneath the

13:14

Surface Media and on their

13:16

website, beneaththesurface.media. Get ready

13:18

to explore the seaside views from the

13:20

rugged southwest coast of England right

13:23

after we head for Italy's breathtaking

13:25

Amalfi Coast. That's next on Travel

13:27

with Rick Steves. With

13:30

its stunning scenery, hill and

13:32

harbor-hugging towns, and historic ruins,

13:35

Italy's Amalfi Coast deserves its

13:37

must-see reputation. Anne

13:39

Long grew up in small-town Illinois, and

13:41

she fell in love with an Italian

13:43

from Sorrento, and she's been at home

13:46

on the Amalfi Coast ever since. She's

13:48

been leading tours now all over Italy for

13:50

almost 40 years, and she joins us for

13:53

an insider's view for exploring

13:55

the Amalfi Coast without being at the mercy

13:57

of the crowds. Anne, thanks for

13:59

joining us. Thanks a lot, Rick. It's

14:01

a pleasure. Yeah, so without being at

14:03

the mercy of the crowds, that's a big

14:05

issue. When we go to southern Italy and

14:07

we go where all the famous places are,

14:10

we're going to see a lot of crowds.

14:12

You're right there in the middle of it

14:14

all. What's the crowd situation for tourism in

14:16

Sorrento in the Amalfi Coast? After

14:19

the pandemic, we've just been going up and up and

14:21

up. 2022 was busy and 2023 even more, and

14:26

they're predicting the same or more in 2024. So

14:30

all we can do is hold on for the

14:32

ride. Hold on for the ride. Let's

14:34

talk about the region in general because you got Rome.

14:37

Everybody's going to go to Rome. And then

14:39

a couple hours south is Naples, which is

14:41

a wonderful city but very, very intense and

14:43

almost too much for a lot of people.

14:45

But then as sort of the other side

14:48

of the southern Italian coin, you get on

14:50

that train and you go down to Sorrento,

14:53

and it's the most peaceful, limoncello

14:55

resort, romantic town, sort

14:58

of the opposite of Naples, isn't it? It

15:00

is. We're in a little bubble

15:02

here that 20 miles from here, we've

15:05

got crowds, we've got poverty,

15:07

we've got homelessness and unemployment,

15:09

but Sorrento is very, very

15:11

lively, it's very safe, and

15:14

a wonderful place to base yourself. And lots

15:16

of good hotels, lots of restaurants, and the

15:18

springboard for lots of sightseeing. I remember a

15:20

long time ago in my tour work, we've

15:22

got tours all over Europe, and it occurred

15:25

to me the one city where we stay

15:27

longer from an overnight point of view than

15:29

anywhere else was Sorrento, because Sorrento

15:31

is such a great home base for visiting.

15:33

You can visit Naples, you can visit Pompeii,

15:36

you can visit Vesuvius, you can visit Herculaneum,

15:38

you can visit the Amalfi Coast, and of

15:40

course you can go out to Capri, the

15:42

romantic island. So it's a wonderful home base,

15:45

and you ended up not there, but just

15:47

in a village up the hill from

15:49

there. How did that happen? Yeah, I'm

15:51

about five miles above Sorrento, and

15:53

I'm in the house that my husband was born in,

15:55

his father was born in, and his grandfather was

15:58

born in. So I knew I wasn't going to be there. I'm

16:00

going to go too far away from here if

16:02

I decide to stay and get married. I'm

16:04

a widow now and I have a 33-year-old

16:06

son, so home is home. I

16:09

like living up in the mountains, going down

16:11

into Sorrento, having my friends

16:13

there, going to do shopping. It's

16:16

fine until the high peak season and

16:18

then it definitely gets crowded. And

16:21

what would the peak season be in the

16:23

Molfi Coast? Well, we usually

16:25

start at Easter. Whenever Easter is, that's

16:27

the kickoff. It can be early,

16:29

it can be late, but say by

16:31

the middle of April until the end of

16:34

October, that's our high season. Yeah,

16:36

everybody's dreaming of the Molfi Coast, I think,

16:38

and for good reason. The charms

16:40

of the Molfi Coast are like

16:42

pegged onto the cliffs, you know,

16:45

in this dramatic coastline as they

16:47

plunge into the sea, the dramatic

16:50

beautiful little beaches and towns. But

16:52

the transportation is tricky. There's one

16:55

road that winds along the coast

16:57

and it can be a real problem when

17:00

you've got lots of traffic, including big vehicles

17:02

like tour buses, going in both directions. How

17:05

does the region deal with traffic congestion?

17:07

It's a simple thing. You've got a

17:09

one and a half lane highway and

17:12

it accommodates so many people. Well,

17:14

they realize the problems that they are having with

17:16

the crowds and so they're trying to do the

17:18

best they can, but the road is what it

17:20

is. They can't make it any wider,

17:23

straighter, anything like that. And of

17:25

course, everybody wants to come and see it when

17:27

they come down to us. Yeah,

17:29

sometimes it's just tour buses can only

17:31

go in one direction. Is that the

17:34

deal? Yeah, it's only, yeah, they have to

17:36

be shorter than 10 meters and they can

17:38

only go down the Molfi Coast from Posey

17:40

Tano towards Salerno and they have to

17:42

come back a different way. They go

17:44

inland on the Autostrada. So

17:46

besides making it one-way traffic for the

17:48

tourist buses, they're also

17:50

trying to add more public

17:53

buses going down the Molfi Coast. They have

17:55

a public boat that goes down the coast

17:58

and now it's quite the thing to do. to rent

18:00

your own boat with a captain, and

18:03

you can get ones for seven people, 10 people,

18:06

15 people to take you down and stop

18:08

wherever you want. Tour guide Anne Long

18:10

is on the line from her home

18:13

overlooking Sorrento as we get on-the-scene tips

18:15

for enjoying Italy's scenic Amalfi Coast on

18:17

Travel with Rick Steves. Just

18:19

before recording our conversation with Anne, I

18:22

put out an invitation for questions or

18:24

comments about the Amalfi region on my

18:26

Facebook page, and Jamie in Lisbon sent

18:29

us this recommendation. On

18:31

the Amalfi Coast, skip the jammed buses

18:33

with no view and take the ferries

18:35

instead for stunning views. You

18:37

can take the ferries from point to point along

18:39

the coast, and you can head

18:42

out to Capri from different points along the

18:44

Amalfi Coast. So the main thing is you

18:46

do have a boat option to the congested

18:49

single highway that serves all

18:51

of these destinations. Yes, and it's

18:53

a wonderful view from the water as well.

18:55

Everybody wants to see it from the road,

18:58

but from the sea it's a beautiful view,

19:01

and the boats are limited to how many people

19:03

they can put on them. It's not like

19:05

the buses where they're just putting them on

19:07

as tight as they possibly can. Oh, man.

19:09

Yeah. There's less boats. You have to kind

19:12

of be flexible with your timing, but

19:14

they make lots of different stops along

19:16

the coast. Over the years, I've

19:18

noticed the region has done all sorts

19:20

of creative little experiments to manage with

19:23

their restricted infrastructure, that one road. I

19:26

remember there was a time when people with the

19:28

odd license plate numbers or even numbers for the

19:30

last digit would be able to get their car

19:32

on the road during those days to try to

19:34

cut down the traffic. They were

19:36

doing that last year on the weekends

19:38

and for the whole month of August

19:41

because they expected so many Italians with the

19:43

cars out. Yeah, and the

19:45

flip side of the traffic congestion is the

19:47

difficulty in finding a place to park your

19:49

car. Exactly. For me, that's the worst

19:52

thing, and that's why I do not drive on

19:54

the Amalfi Coast. I hire a driver if I'm

19:56

feeling like I really want to solve it, and

19:58

then the driver just manages with the car. while

20:00

I do my work and my sightseeing. But

20:02

of course, public transit or a boat is

20:04

probably the best way to go. Hey, we

20:07

jumped right into that without even sort of

20:09

setting it up. Give us just a thumbnail

20:11

overview. What are the major stops along the

20:13

Amalfi Coast that we should be mindful of?

20:16

Well, what the Amalfi Coast

20:18

is so well known for is

20:21

Positano as the kickoff town. And

20:23

then from there you go through Priano and

20:26

then to Amalfi. Mm-hmm. And

20:29

then you get to Amalfi that's a stop

20:31

for everyone. Not everyone goes to Positano,

20:33

but everyone stops and has a visit

20:36

to Amalfi. Beautiful

20:38

cathedral there, paper museum, nice

20:41

walks, beautiful views. And

20:43

then up to Ravello in the hills

20:45

above Amalfi. And then you

20:47

can continue on until towards Salerno

20:49

to the smaller towns and less visited

20:52

places. So the

20:54

big three on the Amalfi Coast are Positano.

20:56

That's the movie star's place to

20:59

do shopping and people-watching. Quite

21:01

expensive, small, quite crowded, very steep. Everything is a

21:03

climb from the road and the bus stop all

21:05

the way down to the beach. You've

21:08

got Amalfi, which in its day

21:10

was an important maritime capital, a

21:12

little mighty mite in the feudal

21:14

times, the Republic of Amalfi. And

21:16

it has the history and the cathedral

21:18

that you'd expect. But then you

21:20

can go winding up into the hills

21:23

and find the third destination of the

21:25

Amalfi Coast, and that is Ravello. Ravello

21:27

is quite different from the places we

21:30

find on the coast, and it's also

21:32

quite appreciated by travelers. Anne, tell us

21:34

about Ravello. Yeah, Ravello

21:36

was built above Amalfi by

21:39

people who were rebelling. They think that's

21:41

where the name came from. It was

21:43

fighting against the control. And

21:45

so it's harder to get to, the road is

21:48

even more narrow to get there, but what

21:50

fantastic views that you can have from

21:52

up there. And families had their estates

21:54

up there, and it's a beautiful village

21:57

that they used to spend their summers at. I'm

22:00

sort of enchanted by the infinity pool, where

22:02

you can be soaking in a pool and

22:04

then it just leads into

22:07

everything, the whole world. And

22:10

in Ravello, I remember what I would

22:12

call infinity restaurants. You're

22:14

sitting there on a bluff and you've got the world

22:16

in front of you, the Mediterranean, the

22:18

lush countryside, and no traffic. You're

22:20

way up in this gorgeous little

22:23

tucked away paradise. That

22:25

was the view that Gore Vidal had from his

22:27

villa when he was up there and found

22:29

inspiration for his 800 books that

22:31

he wrote. Now one thing I've always wanted to

22:33

do is hike from Ravello down to the coast.

22:35

I know that's a popular hike. Do

22:37

you know about that hike? Yes, I've been really

22:40

promoting that with my people lately.

22:44

Just to avoid the public transportation. If

22:47

you can get up with the public

22:49

transportation, there's a series of steps that

22:51

bring you back down to the beach

22:54

further along the coast in Minori. And

22:57

it's a lovely walk down. I mean, it

22:59

can be over a thousand steps, but there's

23:01

no rush. Anne

23:04

Long's our guide to getting around Italy's scenic

23:06

Amalfi Coast region right now on Travel with

23:08

Rick Steves. We provide a

23:10

link to her Facebook page and the notes

23:12

for this week's show, as well as links

23:14

to some of her earlier visits with us

23:17

in the show archives. You'll

23:19

find that at ricksteves.com/radio.

23:22

Maribel Starr commented on Facebook about

23:24

the town you just mentioned. She

23:27

writes, Minori on the Amalfi Coast

23:29

is a gem. They

23:31

have a special local gnocchi dish that's to

23:33

die for. Also great

23:35

pottery, lively outdoor concerts in

23:37

the summer. We walked there

23:40

while staying at Hotel Marmorata.

23:42

Marmorata. Another

23:44

divine place. Do you know Marmorata,

23:46

the hotel there? Yes. The paper

23:49

mill was one of the paper mills of

23:51

Amalfi that they've converted into. It's either four

23:53

or five star hotel. And

23:55

it's right between Amalfi and the town

23:58

of Minori. Minori

24:00

and Maori are absolutely fantastic

24:03

places. It's more Italian, less

24:05

touristy, more Italian. I feel that very

24:07

much. The international tourist crowd, they go

24:09

to Positano and they go to Amalfi

24:11

and they probably go up to Ravello.

24:14

But the locals enjoy Minori. It's

24:16

a little less she-she, I would

24:18

say, and a very,

24:21

very delightful place to check

24:23

out. So that's M-I-N-O-R-I. Heidi

24:27

Hathaway also commented on Facebook and

24:29

she said the ferry from Naples

24:31

to Positano, the ferry

24:33

to Sorrento, the bus to Pompeii and the

24:36

train back to Naples makes a doable day

24:38

trip. So let me think about that. You'd

24:40

be in the big city of Naples, you'd

24:42

take the ferry to Positano, you'd see that,

24:44

and then you'd take the ferry to Sorrento,

24:46

you'd see that, and then you'd catch a

24:48

bus to Pompeii and from Pompeii you'd take

24:50

a train back to Naples. Can

24:52

you envision doing that in a day? You

24:55

wouldn't be able to spend too much time there

24:57

if you definitely get from Naples

25:00

to Positano, Positano to Sorrento, because

25:02

the connections aren't that

25:04

often, especially between Positano

25:06

and Sorrento. I don't

25:08

think you could do all of them. You know what I would

25:11

do? I think I would take the early ferry, the

25:13

first ferry from Naples to Positano. I

25:15

would enjoy Positano in the morning and then

25:17

I would take a bus to Sorrento. I

25:20

would just wander around Sorrento for an hour or two.

25:22

Then I'd take the train to Pompeii and

25:24

make sure I know when Pompeii closes, but I

25:26

would do Pompeii at the end of the day

25:29

and then you're 45 minutes by train

25:31

back to Naples. Would you take the

25:33

bus from Positano to Sorrento to be a little

25:35

more practical rather than the ferry? I

25:37

would take it if I was going in

25:39

that direction before, say, one or two

25:41

o'clock in the afternoon, because the buses

25:44

are very crowded going Sorrento to

25:46

Amalfi in the morning, but then

25:48

by 2.30 in the afternoon they

25:50

start becoming crowded going back. It's

25:53

a big issue because I've stood at those bus

25:55

lines, you know, waiting in the heat and here

25:57

comes the bus, yay, and then the bus driver

25:59

hardens. stops because it's already full. Nobody

26:02

gets off right? Nobody gets off at that time of

26:04

day so get some local advice on that and also

26:06

remember in a place like Positana there's two bus stops

26:08

one at one end of the town and one at

26:10

the end of the town and if you're

26:12

at the right stop you're twice as likely to get on

26:14

the bus. Right. It's becoming like

26:16

that now in Sorrento the bus going

26:18

to Amalfi is that supposedly

26:21

it makes several stops in Sorrento

26:23

but it fills up at the train station.

26:25

If you don't get on at the train

26:27

station in Sorrento for the bus you'll never

26:29

get on. Wow. Here's

26:32

something that was sent to us by

26:34

Penny Geisbricht and Penny emails us and

26:37

she writes we're taking our granddaughter to the

26:39

Amalfi Coast for her Grammy and Grampy European

26:41

trip. She's the second of our

26:43

five to be gifted with such a life experience.

26:45

I love it when grandparents take their grandkids on

26:47

a life experience like that by the way. Penny

26:50

continues we're wondering how best

26:52

to see Capri. My current plan is to

26:54

drive to Sorrento Park take the early ferry

26:57

across and I'm quite confused

26:59

about renting a group boat or taking a

27:01

public ferry. We're on a bit of

27:03

a budget and there'll be four of us. Any help

27:05

would be appreciated. So and she's

27:07

getting a little bit confused about the

27:10

different boat options to get from Sorrento

27:12

to Capri and then to Site C

27:14

on Capri. What would you can you

27:16

just give us the the basics about

27:18

getting the Capri from Sorrento and then

27:21

hiring a tour boat or something to go

27:23

around Capri. And by the way the Capri

27:25

is that the destination island that everybody wants

27:27

to go to off of the coast there

27:29

and it really is worth the trouble. Yes

27:32

from Sorrento we have connections every

27:35

20 minutes from 8 o'clock in

27:37

the morning up until 1030 so

27:40

there's no problem at all. All the boats

27:42

they carry about 300 400

27:44

people so there's really quite a few. Then

27:47

once you get to the island you get off at

27:49

what they call the Marina Grande the main port

27:52

of Capri and you

27:54

just walk to the end of the pier

27:56

and turn left and walk along that pier

27:58

and you will come to boat companies. and

32:00

hiking enthusiast, Charlie Rosson. Charlie, thanks

32:02

for being with us. I'm really

32:04

pleased to be here. Thank you for having me. Yeah, you

32:06

know, I've long been enchanted by England's

32:08

southwest coast path, and by the

32:10

name Southwest Coast, that's, you know,

32:13

Cornwall and down in the southwest

32:15

tip. We all think of Land

32:17

Zend, right? Can you just set

32:19

the scene here geographically? Where

32:21

is this trail and just

32:23

what is it? Well, the easiest

32:25

way to get down into the southwest

32:28

of England is to travel via Bristol

32:30

and then head down southwest towards the

32:32

sea until you reach the coast. So

32:35

it's nice and easy to get into Bristol.

32:37

It's very accessible coming from London or coming

32:39

from Wales and Cardiff across the border there.

32:41

So nice and easy to get down to

32:44

us indeed. Once you get down onto the

32:46

coast, you've got many options for stopping along

32:48

the way. You'll be starting off in Somerset.

32:51

That's where the trail starts in Minehead. And

32:53

beyond that, you then head into Devon

32:55

after not very many miles at all.

32:58

Following your northern coast along Devon, you

33:00

get down to the northern coast of

33:02

Cornwall. And of course, we'll talk about

33:04

the politics between those two, shortly, no

33:06

doubt. You go around the

33:08

tip of the country. So you go

33:11

around Land Zend and then

33:13

also around the lizard, which is actually

33:15

the most southern point. So then you'll

33:17

be traveling along the south coast of

33:19

Cornwall, the south coast of Devon, and

33:21

then into Dorset to finish the journey.

33:23

So it does sound like quite a long

33:25

way, and it really is at 630

33:27

miles. Famously, it's done with

33:29

a 52-day itinerary. And few people

33:31

have 52 days to dedicate to

33:33

hiking or even would want to,

33:35

I guess. But I think

33:37

a lot, I understand a lot of people

33:40

do it in segments over several years. How

33:42

have you tackled the southwest coast path? So

33:44

it's pretty local to me, as I am

33:46

based in Bristol at the moment. So

33:49

getting down there for a weekend is a great option.

33:51

It's only about an hour to an hour and a

33:53

half's drive to some of the sections. And

33:56

it really gives you that opportunity to book into a

33:58

B&B or a pub that has a- works

36:00

and it's been reproofed if it's a little

36:02

bit old. And your boots make sure they

36:04

are super comfy but that's really that goes

36:07

you know without saying for any long distance

36:09

hike. But the waterproofing is a

36:11

unique thing because I've hiked a lot and I've never

36:13

concerned myself with that but you don't have the luxury

36:15

of getting up in the morning and say, oh it

36:17

looks like a rainy day I'm not gonna go. You

36:20

get out there and go because you'll have four different

36:22

weathers in the course of one day and you just

36:24

got to face the weather in March. Indeed

36:26

you do. You've got somewhere to be. You've

36:28

probably booked accommodation or maybe into a campsite.

36:31

So these are things of course that you'll

36:33

be thinking about along the journey. Now we

36:35

always have to remember that we've got waterproof

36:37

skin. So once it get there can only

36:39

go so far and you can always warm

36:41

yourself up. You know staying warm if you've

36:43

got wet is really important. So good quality

36:45

gloves that keep your hands warm and a

36:48

hat that keeps your head warm. Then if

36:50

the rest of you is wet if you're

36:52

walking you'll be generating that heat anyway. So

36:54

yeah if you can keep your hands and

36:56

head nice and warm and your toes are

36:58

tapping you'll be fine. Now you

37:00

know when I think about this it just occurred to me

37:02

for a lot of people they like to do these glamping

37:06

kind of experiences. You know the glamorous

37:08

camping where you have a tour company

37:10

that books your accommodations, provides your dinner

37:13

and sets up a Sherpa service that

37:15

takes your bags to the next spot

37:17

so you only walk with

37:19

your day bag. Is that a possibility on

37:21

the southwest coast path? Yeah that is something

37:24

you can do. You can either

37:26

stay in hostels and hotels that then a

37:28

third party will take your luggage from one

37:30

place to the next. If you're

37:32

staying in a campsite it's less likely that they'll be

37:34

able to arrange those sorts of things. This

37:36

is Travel with Rick Steves. We are

37:39

rambling along England's most popular hiking trail

37:41

right now the southwest coast path with

37:43

British guide Charlie Rosson. Charlie

37:45

leads tours throughout the UK and Switzerland.

37:48

When she isn't on the road with

37:50

groups you can find her flying hot

37:52

air balloons, doing yoga or trekking through

37:55

some of Europe's most gorgeous regions. You

37:57

can find Charlie on Instagram at charlie

37:59

underscore Okay, Charlie, I think it's

38:01

time for us to head out on

38:03

the path. First of all, let's just

38:05

talk about food. Food's really important. You

38:07

work up an appetite, you're in a foreign country, you

38:10

want to get the most out of that. What are

38:12

some good food memories that a hiker's going to take

38:14

home? Oh my gosh, this is

38:16

the most wonderful place for you to be

38:18

having your cream teas, although there is a

38:20

little bit of politics associated with this. So

38:23

when you have a cream tea down in the southwest of

38:25

England, there are two different ways that you can have it.

38:28

You either have your jam, or what you

38:30

would call your jelly, on first, and

38:33

then your clotted cream on the top. Now

38:35

this is the Cornish style jam first, and

38:37

it's how the Queen used to enjoy her

38:39

cream teas. In Devon, you put

38:41

the clotted cream on first and the jam on

38:44

the top. I'm just laughing here

38:46

because when you said there's a little politics,

38:48

I thought, oh no, not politics on my

38:50

hike. But the politics of

38:52

it, you put the cream on the jelly.

38:54

The politics of food. You probably go with

38:57

the locals, wherever you are. Yeah,

38:59

well the thing is, I'm from the Midlands,

39:01

originally, the Midlands of England. So I have

39:03

a bit of a hack for you. You

39:05

put your jam or your jelly on first,

39:07

then you put the cream on, and then

39:10

you put more jam on. And it keeps

39:12

everybody happy, and you get the best of

39:14

all the ways. And you get double the

39:16

cream. How about just apart from the beauty

39:18

of hiking, and you can eat whatever you

39:20

want and still lose and be in great

39:23

shape. Yes, indeed. You got pasties, you got

39:25

fish and chips, you got seafood, all sorts

39:27

of fun local characteristic food to enjoy in

39:29

the pubs and in the delis. You come

39:31

into a village, a hamlet, there'll be a

39:33

deli that makes its living selling lunch to

39:36

hungry hikers. Absolutely true, indeed. And

39:38

you're supporting that local community when you're buying

39:40

those foodstuffs in those villages, which is so

39:42

important. And that's one of the great things

39:45

about the trail, is it brings us to

39:47

these small villages that are otherwise really difficult

39:49

to get to. So we're supporting them, and

39:51

they're supporting our incredible experience. So I think

39:54

it's a very good trade, if you ask

39:56

me. What is your

39:58

advice on eating? and drinking in

40:00

the pubs on the trail. Ooh, crikey. Well, you're

40:02

fish and chips. You can either get those in a

40:04

fish and chip shop, or very often you'll get excellent

40:07

ones in a pub. A pie

40:09

is always a good option as well.

40:11

That fills you up nicely with your

40:13

chips, or mash perhaps. But

40:15

I would also recommend definitely trying a little

40:17

bit of the beer and a

40:19

little bit of the cider. So there's lots of breweries

40:21

down in the Southwest. I was going to ask you

40:23

about that, because cider is a beautiful thing. If you get a

40:25

chance to go to a cider orchard and

40:28

just see that culture, it's just

40:30

great. And talk to the

40:32

publican, the bartender, and ask him

40:35

for advice on a local cider. That's a trendy thing

40:37

now, isn't it? Absolutely. But I will

40:39

give you one word of warning. There

40:41

is a delicious cider called rattler, or

40:44

rattler, as you'd hear it called locally. It

40:46

is very, maybe a little bit

40:49

too delicious, and I recommend only

40:51

having it in half pints. I

40:53

was going to, and it takes a little courage for

40:55

a man to ask for a half pint, because you

40:57

get a little, you get razzed. You'll

41:00

get asked if you want a cocktail umbrella

41:02

with that. That's right.

41:05

Charlie Rosson's getting us ready to kick

41:07

up some dust on England's Southwest Coast

41:09

Trail system right now on Travel with

41:11

Rick Steves. She also leads

41:14

day tours in Bristol and Bath,

41:16

and walking tours in England, Scotland.

41:19

Charlie's a qualified hot-air balloon

41:21

pilot with degrees in geography,

41:23

international relations, and fine art.

41:25

You can find her on

41:27

Facebook and Instagram. Her website

41:29

is travelwithcharleyrosson.com. And

41:32

Charlie is C-H-A-R-L-I-E.

41:36

So, Charlie, we're going to be doing this 600-mile hike here in

41:38

little stretches each day, I don't know, 10 or

41:41

12 miles, or whatever is comfortable for people. Let's

41:43

just talk about some of the things you're going

41:45

to encounter, and I'm just going to throw things

41:47

at you, because my image of traveling in this

41:49

area is hidden ports, and

41:51

smuggling, and shipwrecks. Any of that

41:53

on the trail? Yes, absolutely.

41:55

Hidden ports and wonderful little villages that

41:58

go down. right to the edge. So

42:00

in a place called Clovelli, it has

42:02

a quayside that was built in the

42:05

1500s. In fact, it's

42:07

so picturesque that it's been used for

42:09

filming many films and television programs. So

42:11

going down to this little hidden place,

42:14

it feels like it reveals itself to

42:16

you as you descend into Clovelli. It's

42:18

actually been owned for the last 800

42:21

years by just a handful of families

42:24

originally being owned by William the Conqueror.

42:26

So it has great history there and

42:28

this little port, a great pub down

42:30

at the bottom as well. Of course, that has to

42:32

be there. I will let you know it's very steep

42:34

to get down there. Yeah, you have to

42:37

park your car at the top, I've done

42:39

there, and then you hike way down to

42:41

the town and you realize this was built

42:43

before there was consideration of cars. I guess

42:46

it's more for boats. Let's talk about religious

42:48

and spiritual sites along the way because people

42:50

were walking this path in the old days

42:52

long before the Christianity was the dominant religion.

42:55

Yes, indeed. So down right

42:57

into Cornwall, there are many

42:59

fascinating sort of memorializations within

43:01

the landscape, this monumental landscape

43:03

we've got down there with

43:06

stone rows and stone circles.

43:09

So this takes us into the sort of

43:11

the inner land area, not so much of

43:13

it is on the actual coastal path itself,

43:16

but this is the Neolithic period that

43:18

we're talking about. So these are

43:20

megaliths from the Neolithic period, Stone

43:22

Age, when people built with big

43:24

stones. We've got to remember there

43:26

weren't necessarily tourists back then, but

43:28

two, three thousand years ago, there

43:30

were people that were on these spiritual

43:33

trails. And in the Middle Ages, you

43:35

had pilgrim paths and you can be

43:37

in the middle of Cornwall and come

43:39

across these ancient stone crosses

43:41

that were markers before they had

43:43

GPS. And how important that

43:45

is, that sense of following other

43:47

people's footsteps, those who have come

43:49

before us, and then realizing our

43:51

place in the world, both historically,

43:53

but also geographically and socially, thinking

43:55

of all those who will follow

43:57

after us. And if you get a good map, you

43:59

can... can see little markings on the map that

44:02

say, oh, here's a pre-Christian holy well. So

44:05

these are the OS maps, our

44:07

Ordnance Survey maps, that

44:09

were developed. Yeah, originally they were developed back

44:11

in the 1700s after

44:14

the Jacobite uprisings up in Scotland, but then

44:16

they were developed and improved all over the

44:18

country, and we now use them for leisure

44:20

and pleasure, which is fantastic. What

44:22

other sort of natural sightseeing is there?

44:25

I mean, do you see any wildlife?

44:27

Do you see seals out in

44:29

the sea? What are you going to see? You

44:31

most definitely do. Yeah, gray seals can

44:33

be seen. Lots along the northern coast

44:35

of Cornwall, and some wonderful birds can

44:37

be seen as well. Not just sea

44:39

birds, but also coastal birds, and they

44:41

are fabulous. And of course, they're migrating

44:43

a lot of the time. So every

44:45

season brings different birds to the region.

44:47

So you always have to keep your

44:50

eyes peeled. A treat for

44:52

me was to find this man-made tide pool,

44:54

and the families were there, and the kids

44:56

were, and the parents were looking adoringly

44:58

at their children as they were frolicking on the tide

45:00

pool, and the tide pool was filled with little critters

45:02

from the sea. So that is a

45:04

very common thing for us to do over here, is

45:07

to go rock pooling. So we take,

45:09

yeah, rock pooling. So we take our bucket

45:11

and spade, and we'll make our way down

45:13

onto the rocks, and we'll go and investigate

45:15

what goodies we can find in there, but

45:17

obviously leaving them in there. You

45:19

know, you're never too old to grab a bucket

45:21

and a spade and do little rock pooling. Indeed,

45:24

yes. And it's a wonderful thing to share as

45:26

well. Lots of families do it. A fun

45:28

dimension of this hike is

45:31

lighthouses and Iron Age cliff

45:34

forts and Roman sites. There

45:36

are so many dimensions of history and

45:39

culture as you hike this path around

45:41

the southwest coast of England. Talk

45:44

a little bit about lighthouses and cliff

45:46

forts and Roman sites. So

45:48

one of my favorite lighthouses on

45:50

the southwest coast path is

45:52

down in Portland. So it's on the

45:54

Isle of Portland, which actually isn't an

45:57

aisle. It is a peninsula, but it

45:59

has potholes. Portland Bill at the end

46:01

of it. And actually, it's the first place

46:03

I went after the lockdown on COVID. So

46:05

it was the very first time I got

46:07

to see the ocean after lockdown and Portland

46:10

Bill is fantastic and beautiful and great fish

46:12

and chips can be bought there as well

46:14

and a wonderful place to watch the sunset.

46:17

One of the most romantic moments of

46:19

pole dark that I watched, I loved

46:21

the series pole dark and it's filmed

46:23

there in the exact place we're talking

46:25

about. It is, yes. I got to

46:27

go after loving pole dark and being

46:29

so inspired by the vistas and the

46:32

charging horse silhouetted against the waves crashing

46:34

and the bluffs and the hard scrabble

46:36

tin mines. What are the tin mines?

46:38

Yeah, the tin mines. I learned

46:40

about a place I think called Penberth Cove

46:43

and that's where they had the pilchards running.

46:45

And when the pilchards were running, these are

46:47

like big sardines. They'd blow the horn and

46:50

everybody would scramble down to the beach and

46:52

it's all hands on deck because this is

46:54

our chance to rake in the fish while

46:56

they're running and have food through the difficult

46:58

time of year. And it was

47:00

such a romantic thing and I've always had

47:03

a romantic thing about pilchards and you can

47:05

have a little bit of that experience. Can

47:07

you talk about pilchards? Because I'm fascinated by

47:09

pilchards and that's a big deal down on

47:11

the Southwest coast. It is. So

47:14

Port Isaac was one of the places where

47:16

pilchard fishing was the way the money was

47:18

brought into that community as it was for

47:20

so many of the fishing villages along

47:22

that coast of Cornwall. Now,

47:25

it wasn't really until, I guess, World

47:27

War I, following World War

47:29

I that it became tourism that took over

47:31

from the fishing. And that's because a lot

47:34

of the fish stocks, of course, they were

47:36

being overfished and the changing of the tides

47:38

and temperatures of the water. It was all

47:40

shifting that ability for them to continue with

47:43

those big catches of pilchards. Wow,

47:45

Charlie, there is so many dimensions

47:47

to England's Southwest coast path. This

47:50

is Travel with Rick Steves. We've been

47:52

talking with Charlie Rossman, who's a guide

47:54

who lives in the Southwest of England.

47:56

You can learn more about her work

47:58

on Instagram at charlieunderscore.org. Charlie, I'm going to

48:01

put you on the spot. We're out of time

48:03

just to close things out. I would

48:05

like you to advise us, who only

48:07

have three days on

48:10

our busy visit to Britain, to make

48:12

a headquarters somewhere and take

48:14

three days of hiking, knowing we can always hop

48:16

in a taxi and zip right back to our

48:18

hotel. What three days of this

48:21

600-mile, 52-day itinerary do

48:25

you think would be the most rewarding to

48:27

whet our appetite for coming back and

48:29

doing much more? Oh,

48:31

wow. This is an incredibly challenging question indeed.

48:33

You can do it. One

48:36

of my favorite areas walking along the coastal

48:38

path is down in the

48:40

Torbay area. It's where the

48:43

Carry Arms is, this wonderful hotel

48:45

that I mentioned earlier, and it

48:47

also gives us this opportunity to

48:50

walk along Victorian fronts as

48:52

well as amongst wild seafronts.

48:56

You also hike up in between woods.

48:58

It's incredibly varied along that part, and

49:00

you are always looking out for the wonders of those dolphins going by

49:02

as well. And where

49:05

exactly is this Torbay, you said? Torbay.

49:07

That's down on the south coast of Devon,

49:09

and it gives you a great jumping-off point

49:11

for also going up into Dartmoor as well,

49:14

if you wanted to do some inland hiking. Okay, so Torbay. How

49:17

do you spell that? Torbay

49:19

is T-O-R-B-A-Y, and

49:22

Torquay is the town, the

49:24

biggest town which is the most well-connected in that area. And it

49:27

sounds like this is one of those places where

49:29

the friendly locals would screw up the lighthouses so

49:32

shipping would be directed into the rocks, they would

49:35

crash, and they could all run down there and

49:37

grab whatever they wanted. Crikey!

49:39

That sounds really scary, but

49:42

maybe historically you are absolutely spot on. All

49:45

right. Charlie Rosson, thanks for joining us, and

49:47

it is on my list, England's

49:49

Southwest Coast Path. Wonderful. Great to

49:52

talk to you. Travel

49:57

with Rick Steves as produced by Tim

49:59

Tatton with Capri. Asmara Hall and Donna

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