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1:06

Hello everyone and welcome to

1:08

episode 373 of the True

1:10

Crime All the Time podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and

1:12

with me as always is my partner in true

1:14

crime, Mike Gibson. Give me how are you? Hey,

1:16

I'm doing okay. How about you? I'm doing

1:18

pretty good. Good. You and

1:21

I just talked about on our weekly kind of Patreon

1:23

update. I'm battling a little vertigo

1:26

situation, which is strange. I've never

1:28

had before. So I got to get

1:30

in to see my doctor to see what's going on with that. And

1:33

then my dentist just told me I had to have

1:35

a root canal. So you're falling apart, man. What

1:37

is going on? Oh man, I

1:40

tell you, get

1:42

yourself, you know, on a

1:44

good nutritional diet, eat more leafy

1:47

greens. You think that's the

1:49

cause of those two things? Well, I don't know. No, I'm

1:51

just throwing it out there because you know, why not? Let's

1:55

go ahead and give our Patreon shout

1:57

outs. We have logista Branham. Jackalynn

2:01

Guman. Hey, thank you Guman.

2:03

Jan. Well, hi

2:05

Jan. Kevin Twidle. Hey Twidle.

2:07

Personally victimized by Regina George.

2:10

Oh man, there it is.

2:13

Mean Girls. That's right. And I

2:15

did not know that. I asked you

2:17

about it on Patreon and surprisingly you

2:19

did know. I was shocked. Mr.

2:21

Movie Guy. Ron Kinman. Hey Ron. Matt

2:24

O. What's going on? Amanda

2:26

Mitchell. Hey Amanda. Patricia Cook.

2:28

Melanie Fuentes. Ah, thank you

2:30

Fuentes. Yeah.

2:34

Yeah, that's. Wasn't there like

2:36

a famous DJ or something?

2:39

Daisy. Daisy Fuentes? Yeah.

2:42

Yeah, was she on MTV or something?

2:44

Yeah. Yeah. I

2:46

remember her. Yeah. Janet

2:48

Wiseman. What's going on Janet? And Aylia

2:50

C. Aylia. And then if we

2:52

go back into the vault. This

2:55

week we selected Cheryl Ann Reek. Oh,

2:57

you're awesome. Thanks Cheryl. Yeah, we appreciate

2:59

all the support we get. We

3:01

have an episode out right now on

3:03

Unsolved where we're talking about Robert Houghlin.

3:06

This is a, you know, kind of

3:08

a family man, pretty normal guy

3:11

in Connecticut who all of

3:13

a sudden kind of vanishes into

3:15

thin air. And then

3:17

he's found like nine years

3:19

later. It's bizarre. Yeah, it's bizarre.

3:21

I don't want to give anything away, but

3:24

this is kind of one of those

3:26

that people like to debate online and

3:28

they have their own theory. So

3:31

definitely check that one out. Come on over and give

3:33

it a listen. All right, buddy. Are

3:36

you ready to get into this episode of true crime

3:38

all the time? And I am ready. We are talking

3:40

about Gregory Harris. Gregory

3:43

Harris was married to a

3:45

woman named Chiquita Tate, who

3:48

was a young, successful defense

3:50

attorney who was murdered

3:52

in her office in downtown Baton

3:54

Rouge, Louisiana. And she was preparing

3:56

for this big murder trial. made

4:00

attempts to throw the police off but

4:03

the evidence pointed to her husband, Gregory

4:05

Harris. You're a bend to Baton Rouge?

4:08

I don't believe I have. No. I think

4:10

I've only been to. New Orleans?

4:13

Yeah, New Orleans. Yeah. I

4:15

don't think I've been to Baton Rouge. Well, we need

4:18

to go to Baton Rouge then. Before? I

4:20

don't know. Why not? Okay. Then

4:23

you could basically say that about any place

4:26

in the US or the world. Isn't

4:28

Baton Rouge like in the bottom

4:31

of the boot of Louisiana? Isn't

4:33

it like a little hill boot?

4:35

The bottom of the boot. Is it the state

4:38

shaped like a little boot? I

4:40

don't know. New Orleans is at the

4:42

very bottom, right? Well, maybe this

4:44

is at the heel of the boot. Okay. Now we've

4:46

got the heel. Maybe

4:49

overall. I'm going to get a map. People are going

4:51

to get a map out and be like, what

4:54

is Gibby talking about? Or Gibby nailed it.

4:56

One or the other. I know

4:58

Italy looks like a boot. What's the

5:00

big boot? I don't know if

5:03

Louisiana looks like a boot or not. I don't know.

5:05

Like this, like a little one. In my mind, it

5:07

doesn't, but I definitely could be wrong. And

5:10

so could I. Yeah.

5:12

Yeah. That's a real possibility.

5:15

Chiquita Tate was born on October 15th, 1975. She

5:19

was one of seven siblings. It's

5:21

a pretty big family. Yeah. She

5:24

was raised by her grandmother in

5:26

an impoverished area of Baton Rouge,

5:28

Louisiana, according to oxygen. You

5:31

ever met people that come from a big family? I'm

5:33

sure I have. Sometimes they seem competitive

5:37

in nature because they have to be competitive

5:39

at home. I mean, like at

5:41

the dinner table to make sure

5:44

everybody gets fed or just because

5:46

you have so many siblings, naturally

5:49

there's going to be competition, competition

5:51

for your parents' affection.

5:53

Yeah. I could see that.

5:55

I think sometimes that spills over into outside

5:58

of the house. It could. It definitely

6:00

could now what I find interesting is that

6:03

you know I'm an only child

6:05

and I'm about as competitive a

6:08

person as you'll ever find You

6:10

are pretty competitive. So I don't know, you know,

6:12

like where that comes from. I hate to lose

6:16

You know, I'll fight tooth and nail in A

6:19

game of fish. I don't care. I do not

6:21

like to lose So maybe as you were growing

6:23

up you were used to getting whatever you wanted

6:26

and then when you got outside of that You're

6:29

like, hey, that should be mine. What

6:31

do you do in touching that? I'm

6:33

gonna win this thing because I that should be mine. I'm

6:35

used to getting what I want You may

6:37

have hit on something there as a

6:40

child Chiquita was strong will and

6:42

analyzed everything she was often told

6:44

she would make a good lawyer

6:47

She was an intelligent and driven student and

6:49

was the first person in her family to

6:51

go to college So I

6:53

this is something that I've said about

6:55

my youngest for a long time You

6:58

know very strong will likes to

7:00

analyze things is very good at

7:03

arguing Yes, she is sometimes

7:05

best me in an

7:07

argument. She said not to me a few times. Yeah,

7:09

and I always

7:11

said I think you'd make a good attorney.

7:14

She doesn't want to be an attorney She wants to be

7:16

a nurse, but she does ask good

7:19

questions. She does She does

7:21

she even did some of that mock trial stuff and

7:23

was amazing Yeah, I went to go watch it after

7:26

graduating college Chiquita worked briefly

7:28

as a legislative secretary and

7:31

Recorded minutes at Atlanta City

7:33

Council meetings She eventually

7:36

decided she wanted to move back

7:38

to Louisiana to attend law school

7:41

good call because I think recording minutes at Council

7:45

meetings and things like that would not

7:48

be that exciting It's an important job for

7:50

somebody to do but I think I would be

7:52

bored Yeah, so she was living

7:54

in Atlanta there for a while moved

7:57

back to Louisiana. She studied at

8:00

Northern University Law Center and

8:02

worked as a clerk at a law firm

8:04

while studying for the bar exam.

8:07

So no doubt Chiquita

8:09

was very much a go-getter. That's

8:11

the sense I'm getting. Driven. Very

8:13

driven. Chiquita's mentor

8:15

and former boss, Judge

8:17

Pam Taylor-Johnson told CNN

8:20

that Chiquita believed in

8:22

justice for everyone and

8:24

wanted to represent vulnerable

8:27

people. And if

8:29

that is true, which I have no reason to

8:31

think it's not true, it's very

8:33

honorable. You

8:36

and I do a lot of cases and we

8:38

talk about a lot of trials. And

8:40

the one thing that I worry

8:43

gets lost in

8:45

many trials is the

8:48

actual notion of

8:50

justice. I think most

8:52

times it's, you know, obviously the

8:54

prosecution wants to win, the defense

8:56

wants to win. Too

8:58

many times I've seen

9:00

charges brought that don't

9:02

seem warranted, the evidence doesn't seem

9:04

to really be there. Well,

9:07

is that justice? Are

9:10

we really seeking justice or

9:12

are we trying to get

9:15

a conviction because the public's up

9:17

in arms? Right. And I

9:19

worry about that sometimes. Yeah, so it's a good thing to

9:21

be worried about. I worry about those things

9:23

too. Yeah, because to me, what

9:26

is at the heart of it or

9:28

what's most important is to get it

9:30

right. And I think the other thing

9:32

in this statement

9:34

is that, you know, she

9:37

wanted to represent vulnerable

9:39

people and get

9:41

justice for people that maybe had

9:44

a harder time of

9:46

getting true justice because unfortunately

9:48

we know that occurs.

9:51

You know, if you're rich, you

9:53

had a better chance. Very true. And

9:56

it shouldn't be like that, right? It

9:58

should be equal for everyone. Unfortunately, the

10:00

way our system works, it's not. Chiquita's

10:03

legal assistant, Lessie Hoofkin told

10:05

Dateline, she was just driven.

10:08

Wanting to get that next, I'll

10:10

call it that next high in

10:13

law school was that. Being a lawyer was

10:15

that, and she achieved it. And I

10:17

think there's really something to that. You

10:19

know, people talk about a runner's high,

10:22

but there are highs that

10:24

people get when accomplishing,

10:27

you know, big time thing,

10:29

not talking about drugs here, but you

10:32

know what I'm saying when you're driving for something

10:34

and you work really hard for it and

10:37

you finally get it, there's a

10:39

euphoria there. Yeah. You finally pass your

10:41

bar exam, you're an attorney, you're excited.

10:44

And then just the regular

10:46

activity of being an attorney when you win

10:48

your case. Well, that's what I was going

10:50

to say. Once you hit that high, well,

10:52

then what's the next thing? Yeah. After

10:55

passing the bar exam on her first

10:57

try, Chiquita decided she wanted to be

10:59

a criminal defense attorney. Many

11:02

of her clients were accused murderers,

11:04

drug dealers, and gang members. She

11:06

was dedicated to her clients and was

11:08

quickly making a name for herself in

11:10

the Baton Rouge legal

11:13

community. And that's the thing. If

11:15

you're going to be a criminal defense attorney,

11:18

your clients are not all going to be

11:20

sayings. Nope. Many of them are going

11:22

to be guilty. Many of them are

11:24

going to have pretty long rap

11:27

sheets and have done some horrible

11:29

things. But if you can establish

11:31

that name, you know, that go to

11:33

person, if you're in trouble, this

11:36

is who you want to call. I mean, in

11:39

most cities, there's that person that you call. Yeah.

11:41

Or a very small handful

11:44

of people who are so well

11:47

respected because it

11:49

is important. The way that

11:51

our system works, that everybody,

11:53

you know, gets good representation.

11:56

Now may work out that the person

11:58

is guilty, but it doesn't. didn't mean

12:00

that they shouldn't get a fair

12:02

trial and all that stuff. During

12:05

her short career as a lawyer, Chiquita

12:07

won a $500,000 jury verdict and

12:11

opened her own law firm. Cases

12:13

like that certainly help out, don't they? Well, if

12:15

you're taking what, 30%, 40%, I don't know what

12:18

the standard kind of rate

12:25

is, she may have been

12:27

working on a contingency where she got nothing if

12:29

they didn't win, but if you do win, you

12:31

get 30%, 40%. Bigger

12:33

piece of the pie. You can make

12:36

some real money in a hurry. Chiquita

12:38

was known for her drive and intensity

12:40

in and out of the courtroom. Some

12:43

people described her as having a

12:45

temper. And a lot of times those

12:47

things go hand in hand. Yeah, I

12:49

don't know if having a temper is a

12:51

bad thing. Sometimes I think it can be

12:54

beneficial. It depends on how you wield it.

12:57

Um, I, I, I know you would

12:59

agree that sometimes I have a

13:01

temper. Yes, you do.

13:03

And sometimes you're at the other end,

13:05

the receiving end of it. I

13:08

want things to go a certain

13:10

way and that's part of,

13:12

you know, the drive and the

13:14

intensity, and when they don't go

13:16

that way, whoever I'm working

13:18

with can get the brunt

13:21

end, I guess. So, you

13:23

know, even at my old job or

13:25

even if it's just podcasting, I

13:28

sometimes have to control

13:30

my temper, but it comes out. It

13:33

does more than it should

13:35

know more than you would like it

13:37

to. For example, Chiquita

13:39

hired her sister, Danita to work

13:41

in her law office. The need

13:43

to told Dateline that her sister

13:45

fired her every week, but

13:48

would then call her at night and say,

13:50

Hey, see you in the morning. You

13:52

ever know somebody like that who had

13:55

a temper where they

13:57

kind of boiled over on a regular basis.

14:00

regular basis, but they were very

14:02

quick to kind of try

14:04

to make it better. Oh yeah. Or

14:06

they wanted things to go back

14:08

to normal very quickly. No

14:10

few people like that. Now my wife is the other way

14:13

around. She holds it

14:15

all inside until it

14:17

erupts in a Mount

14:20

Vesuvius type catastrophe.

14:22

Right. Not good. And

14:24

I don't know which one's better, worse. I mean,

14:27

they all have their upsides and

14:29

downsides. I definitely keep my stuff

14:31

in. You do. It's

14:33

very rarely do I ever blow up at

14:35

all. No. Um, I

14:38

would say you're almost emotional. I've

14:41

been described as that by sometimes by

14:45

some people, some people, not to

14:47

name names, but now I do think

14:49

that would be tough when you're working with, you know,

14:52

a sibling and they're on

14:54

you so much that you're fired every week.

14:57

And then you have to have that call the

14:59

makeup call and say, Hey, everything's great, I'll see

15:01

you in the morning. In late 2007, Chiquita

15:05

met a contractor named Greg

15:07

Davis. Both of them were

15:09

driving through Baton Rouge that day. Greg

15:12

cut Chiquita off and she haunted

15:14

him. They stopped at a red

15:16

light and smiled at each other. It

15:18

turned out to be a whirlwind Roman

15:21

and Chiquita soon moved in with gray.

15:23

So I don't know how many

15:26

relationships or, you know,

15:28

romances have started with a

15:31

road rage incident. I'm

15:33

going to think not that many. No, I

15:36

don't think so because you know,

15:38

if you cut me off and I honk

15:40

at you, which would probably be the least

15:43

amount of anger that I would show,

15:45

you're probably going to get the bird

15:47

and maybe some choice words. I

15:50

can't imagine myself being single, rolling up

15:52

to the light and then looking over

15:54

after I done all that and being

15:56

like, Oh, Hey, Hey,

15:58

what's happening? Let's go out. There's

16:00

a, uh, series on Netflix called,

16:03

uh, beef. It's really

16:05

good. Yeah. Is that the one with

16:07

the guy from the walking dead? Yeah.

16:10

Yeah. And it, uh, starts off

16:13

basically her cutting

16:15

him off and, you know, it kind

16:17

of goes from, from there. Okay. Yeah. Don't ruin it

16:19

for me, but I had been wanting to watch that.

16:21

We, I just haven't watched it yet. Jaquita

16:23

told her boss, judge Pam Taylor

16:26

Johnson, I met the most wonderful

16:28

guy. I need you to perform

16:30

our marriage tomorrow. Wow.

16:32

That's really quick. Well, you know,

16:34

when you use the term whirlwind,

16:36

that can mean a bunch of

16:38

different things, but this is

16:40

really whirlwind. You know, you're

16:42

moving in, you're getting married. It sounded like

16:45

everything happened pretty quickly. Johnson

16:47

told her she would have to

16:49

wait at least three days as

16:51

required by law. Serious

16:53

problems quickly surfaced though. And

16:55

Chiquita and Greg's relationship on

16:58

December 22nd, 2007, Chiquita called 911

17:02

from the home that she shared with Greg, she

17:05

was crying and asked the dispatcher for

17:07

help. She reported that her

17:09

fiance beat her, choked her, and

17:12

she thought her arm was broken. Intense.

17:15

Yeah. That sounds like a

17:17

very serious altercation.

17:20

And if true, I would say, you know, a

17:23

very serious incident of abuse on the

17:25

part of Greg. Oxygen

17:28

reported that Chiquita said he

17:31

grabbed my finger and then I took

17:33

the ring. I threw it at him and

17:35

then he, and then he choked me

17:37

and I couldn't move. Both Chiquita

17:40

and Greg were arrested after this

17:42

incident, but her charges were dropped.

17:45

You know, I know people have some really

17:48

bad verbal arguments. Yes.

17:50

That sometimes can escalate

17:53

when there's some physical violence that

17:55

occurs. Wrong

17:57

all the way around, but I just think there's...

18:00

Some people just can't control it. It

18:02

just happens. Well, and I

18:05

would call that a problem. Yeah. You

18:07

and I have been and are both in

18:09

relationships and I'm sure a lot of

18:12

the people listening fall into that

18:14

same category when you're in

18:17

a pretty long-term relationship, there are going

18:19

to be disagreements, you

18:21

know, not everything is peaches

18:24

and cream, you know, chocolate

18:26

strawberries all the time. It just can't

18:29

be. Now do

18:31

some of the

18:33

verbal altercations escalate, you

18:36

know, to be yelling, screaming,

18:38

I'm sure it does for people. Yeah. But

18:41

to put your hands on

18:44

someone you supposedly love,

18:46

whether it's pushing and

18:49

then even escalating into hitting or

18:52

choking, right? That's

18:55

just unacceptable. People are going to argue.

18:57

Yeah. You're going to have those arguments. You might

18:59

even get a little something thrown at

19:02

you. You know, you sound like

19:04

you're speaking from experience, but yeah,

19:07

again, when it rises to the

19:09

level of you putting your hands on

19:12

the other person, and this goes both ways for

19:14

me. Women shouldn't be hitting men.

19:17

Women shouldn't be choking men. And

19:19

men shouldn't be hurting men. When you throw

19:21

that nerf stuff at me all the time,

19:23

I know it's nerf. So

19:26

it shouldn't hurt. But you don't have

19:28

to choke me. That's, that's unacceptable. Well, you

19:30

know, when you throw the nerf stuff

19:33

at me, but it's not the nerf, it's

19:35

the, the piece that

19:37

shoots the nerf stuff. That's the plastic. Oh,

19:39

when I throw that, yeah, it kind of

19:41

hurts. Sorry about that. Yeah. But you

19:44

actually make a very valid point. Two

19:46

men in a relationship or

19:48

two women for that matter.

19:51

Basically anyone in a relationship shouldn't be putting

19:53

their hands on the other person. Exactly. And

19:56

I don't know how normal this is.

19:58

Maybe it is normal. Cause I've never

20:01

been in this situation, but I did

20:03

think it was interesting that both were

20:05

arrested. Maybe it was just

20:07

that in the moment they couldn't figure

20:09

out who was the aggressor, who was,

20:11

you know, the person

20:14

who, you know, received the

20:16

abuse. I think in some counties they

20:19

all both people in regardless. Just

20:22

by law or formality or whatever.

20:25

Greg and Chiquita applied for their

20:27

marriage license on January 10th, 2008,

20:31

which was just two and a half

20:33

weeks after the domestic

20:35

violence report. They got married

20:37

on February 8th of that year. Seems

20:40

kind of, I want to say, it's kind of

20:42

quick. Well, it does. Obviously

20:44

it sounds like

20:46

these two people were in love,

20:48

but you throw this domestic violence

20:51

incident in the middle of it,

20:53

and it's pretty hard to discount

20:55

it or to not bring it

20:58

up. Yeah. I mean, clearly

21:00

they worked through whatever the issue was.

21:02

Well, you're assuming you would have

21:04

to assume that Greg pleaded not guilty

21:07

on March 6th, 2008. He

21:09

didn't show up for a pretrial conference

21:12

on May 8th and a warrant was issued

21:14

for his arrest. Now I find that

21:16

strange. I always do. I

21:19

think we talked about something similar in an

21:21

episode just not that far back.

21:23

Yeah. Why put yourself at risk? Well,

21:26

you know, he's pleaded not guilty. And

21:29

then obviously they said, okay, you

21:31

got to show up for this. He decides

21:33

I'm not going to, and

21:35

then you're going to have to deal with

21:37

the repercussion. And I'm thinking

21:39

she went and she say, Hey buddy, you

21:41

got to go to this thing. Oh, absolutely.

21:45

This show is sponsored by better health. Let me

21:47

ask you all a question. What's the first thing

21:49

you do if you have an extra hour in

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journey today with Bite. Chiquita

23:36

and Greg were married for just over a

23:38

year before she was killed.

23:41

On the evening of February 19, 2009,

23:43

Chiquita was working late at

23:46

her office in downtown Baton Rouge. She

23:48

was preparing for a double murder

23:51

trial that was supposed to start

23:53

the following Monday. So I

23:55

can see why she was working late. Yeah. A

23:58

double murder trial, I'm sure. is a heck

24:01

of a lot of work to get ready for. Shakita

24:03

never came home that night. Greg

24:06

called her repeatedly and went to

24:08

the office around 6 a.m. on the morning of

24:10

the 20th. He called

24:13

911 because he couldn't get into the

24:15

building. He requested an officer

24:17

during his call and flagged

24:19

down an officer who was passing by, explaining

24:22

that he was concerned about his wife

24:24

because she didn't come home from work.

24:27

The officer entered the building and

24:29

found Shakita's body in her office.

24:32

She had been stabbed 43 times,

24:34

including a fatal wound to the

24:36

neck. Excessive. It

24:38

seems like that, right? 43 times. Now,

24:42

what do we normally say when

24:44

the number gets that high? So,

24:47

active rage, crime of

24:49

passion, rage. I mean, that's the

24:51

way that investigators are normally going

24:53

to look at something like that.

24:57

The one thing that did strike me as a little bit

24:59

odd is that he

25:02

waited till 6 a.m. and I

25:04

don't have all the facts surrounding that. Maybe

25:06

he went to sleep knowing that she was

25:09

going to be late and he woke up

25:11

to find that she wasn't home. I don't

25:13

know. Shakita was found on the

25:15

floor of her office and it

25:17

was obvious that she had fought for her

25:19

life. Books and papers were

25:21

strewn all over the office. There

25:24

were blood stains on the wall. It

25:26

appeared that she tried to use a

25:28

law book for self-defense. She

25:31

also had defensive wounds on her arms.

25:34

So she fought. She's a fighter, yeah. Investigators

25:37

found long strands of dark hair in

25:40

her hand. She wasn't clutching

25:42

the hair tightly like she had

25:44

died soon after pulling it out of

25:47

the killer's head. Instead, it

25:49

looked more like someone had put the

25:51

hair in her hand after

25:53

she died. It's kind of like laid

25:55

on top. Yeah. Yeah.

25:58

So obviously rigor. mortise would

26:01

start to set in. So

26:03

it could be questionable. Well, I

26:05

think that's the way I took it to

26:08

investigators. It didn't

26:10

look authentic. It looked

26:13

more like maybe someone

26:15

had placed the hair in

26:17

her hand after she had

26:19

already done. There were no footprints

26:21

and no blood was found outside

26:23

of her office and no murder

26:26

weapon was found at the scene. Chiquita

26:28

was still wearing her expensive jewelry,

26:30

but her wallet was missing. And

26:33

this is something that we talk about quite a lot. You

26:36

know, what type of crime

26:38

is this? What is the motive

26:40

for this murder? And

26:43

when someone is wearing some

26:45

expensive jewelry and the killer

26:47

doesn't take it, well, you've got

26:49

to look at it. Does it

26:52

mean something definitively? I

26:54

would say no, but it

26:57

definitely could mean something because if

26:59

you've gone through the act

27:02

of murdering someone and you

27:04

took that person's wallet, why

27:06

would you not also take

27:09

this expensive jewelry? Unless

27:11

the jewelry was too hard to take off the

27:13

body. You didn't want to leave any potential

27:15

DNA behind. Yeah. Yeah. I get that. So

27:18

you took the easy thing, the wallet and

27:20

left everything else behind. Yeah. I get that.

27:22

If you thought like that. The

27:24

detectives on the scene focused on

27:26

creating a timeline of

27:29

Chiquita's final hours, she

27:31

went to court on February 19th and

27:33

spoke to reporters about her case. She

27:36

returned to the office to continue

27:39

working. Her assistant, Leslie

27:41

Hoofkin left around 5.30. Chiquita

27:44

told her she was going to stay a

27:46

while to finish up some work. Chiquita

27:49

called Greg around 7 p.m. and

27:52

asked if he could bring her dinner. Greg

27:54

picked up McDonald's and entered the building to

27:56

bring it to her. He noticed there were

27:58

a number of people. working

28:00

late in the building. So,

28:03

so far nothing out of the ordinary? No,

28:05

doesn't seem like it other than

28:08

the fact that he chose McDonald's

28:10

for her dinner. Do you like McDonald's?

28:13

The McRed? Yeah, but

28:15

I can only get that every now and then.

28:17

The other thing I think is probably normal is you

28:20

have a number of other people working late

28:22

in the building. It's that type

28:24

of job. You know, it's not a nine to

28:26

five job. Being an attorney? No. No,

28:29

especially a defense attorney. Yeah, and

28:31

especially if you have a huge case

28:33

coming up in a few days. Greg

28:36

helped Chiquita by bringing money to

28:38

one of her clients downstairs and

28:41

picking up some paperwork from that client. Chiquita

28:44

told him she had more work to do

28:46

and another client to see. He

28:48

left around 8 30 p.m. Initially

28:50

Greg said he went straight home

28:53

after this. So you said nothing out

28:55

of the ordinary? It does

28:57

sound from what we know so

28:59

far as though, you know, he's just kind

29:02

of being the good husband. He's trying

29:04

to help her. He knows, you

29:06

know, she's under the gun. She's got

29:08

a lot of work to do. So he's helping her out.

29:10

Yeah, I'll bring you dinner. I'll take care of some errands

29:12

for you. That way you don't have to worry about that

29:15

stuff. There were surveillance cameras

29:17

and traffic cameras outside the office.

29:20

Detectives hope to find footage of the killer

29:22

entering the office. Unfortunately the

29:25

closest camera to Chiquita's office

29:27

was not working due to

29:29

a recent storm. We've had that

29:31

occur in a few episodes here recently,

29:33

right? The camera was there. It just

29:36

wasn't operational. Like the one

29:38

camera that would have been the most

29:40

beneficial seems to crop

29:43

up like that in some

29:45

episodes. Now you can

29:47

go back a number of years and

29:50

you have the convenience store who has

29:52

the camera, but it's not real. Yeah,

29:54

that's remember though. Yeah, it really

29:56

wasn't connected to anything. It wasn't

29:58

recording anything. It was just

30:00

more of a deterrent. Right. People

30:02

walked in and said, Oh, they got camera, Sarah,

30:04

go on down to the next door. Yeah.

30:07

Had a little light on it that blinked or

30:09

something. Greg's family expressed

30:11

concerns about Chiquita's clients, some

30:13

of whom were accused of

30:16

very violent crimes. One

30:18

possible theory was that

30:20

Chiquita had angered someone with

30:22

her reportedly volatile temper, according

30:25

to oxygen. And

30:27

this was the thought that, you know, I

30:29

kind of had doing

30:32

the research as a

30:34

defense attorney. Like I said, you're

30:36

going to defend some

30:38

people with questionable morals,

30:42

maybe long rap sheets. What

30:45

happens if they don't like something

30:47

that you do in the

30:50

course of defending them? Could

30:52

it be that they want

30:54

revenge? They come after

30:56

you. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I

30:59

do think that has to be a working theory

31:01

in the beginning, but investigators thought

31:04

this was unlikely because Chiquita worked

31:06

hard for her clients and

31:08

didn't have any known issues with

31:10

any of them, but they still

31:12

looked into her client list to

31:14

establish alibi and

31:17

the two clients Chiquita was representing for

31:19

the upcoming trial were in jail when

31:21

she was murdered. So those alibis

31:24

are pretty easy to verify. I

31:26

do like the fact that the

31:29

police, even though they thought this

31:31

was an unlikely theory, still

31:33

went through the client list, still tried

31:36

to establish alibis for these

31:38

people. Yeah. Cause I think you have to,

31:40

right? You have to check that off the

31:42

list. Well, you don't have to.

31:45

And I think that's the problem in

31:48

some cases. It could have

31:50

been possible that investigators said, eh, I just

31:53

don't think that's likely. So we're not going

31:55

to run that down. Now you

31:57

should, you definitely should. And they did. Yeah,

32:00

because now you can eliminate it as

32:03

the possibility just for your own

32:05

concern. But also, you know, eventually,

32:08

hopefully, in this case, we know they do.

32:11

You catch the individual that did this

32:13

and what you don't want it is to be used

32:16

against you later by the defense

32:18

saying, how do you know it

32:20

wasn't one of her clients? Yeah. So we're pointed

32:22

out by the defense that you're

32:24

sloppy because you didn't follow up on this or

32:26

follow up on that. When investigators

32:29

began looking into her marriage,

32:31

they discovered that Chiquita and

32:33

Greg were having serious problems.

32:35

Chiquita had threatened to leave Greg multiple

32:38

times during their marriage. About

32:40

a month before she died, she signed a

32:42

lease for an apartment and paid

32:44

three months of rent, but she had not

32:46

yet moved in. They also learned

32:49

that Greg was having some financial

32:51

troubles. So that's pretty

32:53

interesting and had to have been

32:55

to police. It's one thing to

32:57

threaten to leave, but to

33:00

me, it's another thing to

33:02

rent an apartment and pay in

33:04

advance. Taking the steps to

33:06

get out. Yeah. I mean, that's taking it

33:08

to another level. It shows

33:10

that she was pretty serious about it.

33:13

And we know that the husband,

33:15

the significant other is going

33:17

to be looked at. And

33:19

the financial troubles probably didn't

33:22

look real great in his favor as well.

33:25

Chiquita's sister, Danita recalled her

33:27

saying on February 19th that

33:30

she could no longer stay married to Greg.

33:32

Danita told Dateline, you

33:34

know, in a relationship you have to

33:37

compromise. I don't think she was willing

33:39

to do it. It was her way

33:42

or no way. That's a tough relationship to be

33:44

in. It really is. I

33:46

mean, compromise is a

33:48

big deal in any

33:50

relationship. It really is. If

33:53

you have one person that is, you

33:55

know, it's my way or the highway, it's

33:57

going to be tough sledding for sure.

34:00

But it does sound like she

34:02

was that type of person, you know,

34:04

very driven. She wanted everything

34:07

the way that she wanted it. And

34:10

that's okay if you're on your own. Sure. But

34:12

when you're trying to share your life with

34:14

someone else, they may not want

34:17

to do everything the way that you want them

34:19

to do it. They may not

34:21

do it the way you want them to do it. And

34:24

if that my way or no

34:26

way kind of comes in, it's

34:28

going to be a constant battle. Yeah. And I think

34:30

this is the problem of jumping into

34:32

a marriage as quick as they did. Right.

34:35

He didn't get a chance or

34:37

neither one got a chance to see how each

34:39

of them really are in long-term. Well, I

34:42

think that's a great point because it does

34:44

sound from the research, like everything

34:46

happened very quickly from

34:48

the time they met to the time that they moved

34:51

in to the time that they were married. Greg's

34:53

father, Silver Harris, told Dateline

34:55

that some of their problems

34:58

stemmed from Chiquita's long hours

35:00

and work and her frequent

35:02

travel for cases. But you

35:04

know what? You married a defense attorney. I

35:06

think you kind of know that's how

35:08

it's going to be. And I'm assuming when

35:11

you met her, she was working long hours at that

35:13

time too. But again, in

35:16

the early stages, right?

35:18

You're in love. You're

35:20

euphoric. Isn't it natural

35:22

for people to kind of overlook

35:25

certain things or not think

35:27

that they're going to be as big of

35:29

a deal as they will ultimately turn out

35:31

to be? Because we're in love

35:33

and love conquers all. Exactly. Well,

35:36

it can, but it

35:38

doesn't always. Detectives saw the record

35:40

of the domestic violence incident from

35:43

December 2007 and the

35:45

outstanding mourn against Greg. Greg

35:48

told them he forgot to show up to

35:50

court. So I already said he had some

35:53

things that were probably causing the

35:55

alarm bells to go off for

35:57

investigators. This had to be. The

36:00

capper. I mean, a woman

36:02

ends up murdered. Her

36:05

husband has this

36:07

record of domestic violence. He's

36:10

gotten an arrest warrant. That's outstanding.

36:13

That doesn't look great. It doesn't. And

36:16

why is it still outstanding? Well, that

36:18

part I wasn't sure about. Greg

36:20

was arrested on February 21st, 2009

36:24

for simple battery, domestic violence, and

36:26

failure to appear in court. This

36:29

allowed investigators to hold him in

36:31

jail for further questioning during the

36:33

early phase of the investigation. And

36:36

I think for investigators, that's

36:38

always a great scenario. Oh, I

36:40

think they love that. Now

36:43

we got the person that we

36:45

think might have something to do with it. And we

36:47

don't have to worry about them being out on the

36:49

streets. We know exactly where they're at. And

36:52

we can go back to them and question them again

36:54

and again, because it right down the

36:57

corridor in the, uh, in the jail.

37:00

Investigators got a break in the case

37:02

when a woman called to report that

37:05

she found Shakita's wallet on

37:07

Gardere Lane. Gardere Lane

37:09

is located in what was

37:11

described according to the

37:13

date line as a crime-ridden area of

37:15

Baton Rouge. The woman recognized

37:17

Shakita because she visited her daughter's

37:20

school in the past and

37:22

she'd heard news about the murder. So

37:24

she knew right away the importance of

37:27

what she had found, but

37:29

this evidence was puzzling to investigators.

37:31

The wallet was found in a section of the

37:34

city with a higher crime rate, but

37:36

her ID and credit cards were still

37:38

inside. And Shakita owned

37:40

a Gucci wallet, meaning that,

37:43

you know, it was valuable even

37:45

without the cards or the

37:47

cash inside. Investigators believed

37:49

that the killer planted the

37:51

evidence, hoping that someone would

37:53

steal the wallet and use the credit

37:55

cards, which would link them to the

37:57

murder. Yeah, it doesn't make any sense.

38:00

that someone would toss one,

38:02

the very expensive wallet

38:04

out, why wouldn't they hold onto

38:06

it for themselves, or why wouldn't they sell

38:09

it to their body? And then

38:11

again, you have these credit cards. And

38:14

cash. And cash that you're not gonna

38:16

keep. It doesn't make any sense.

38:19

But flip it

38:21

around and think about

38:24

someone having

38:26

the idea to plant the

38:28

wallet there, hoping that someone

38:30

would come along, find it, use

38:33

the credit cards, investigators are

38:35

gonna see that, they're gonna track it back

38:38

to the person, and they're

38:40

gonna believe that that person had something

38:42

to do with the murder. That's actually

38:44

kinda smart. But their plan didn't

38:47

work out that way because? No

38:49

one took the bait. Yeah, someone good,

38:51

a good person found

38:53

the wallet. And turned it in. Yeah. But

38:56

I think to investigators, this

38:59

indicated some pretty extensive planning

39:02

by the killer. Detectives wanted

39:04

to question Greg again. They

39:06

told him that cameras captured him

39:08

taking a different way home than

39:11

what he said in his last

39:13

interview. They also told him they checked

39:15

his phone records. Now both statements

39:17

were a lie, but it helped

39:20

the investigators when they confronted Greg

39:22

about the wallet. Yeah, I think

39:24

you have to remember, when you're being

39:26

questioned by authorities, they're

39:28

not obligated to be honest. We're truthful.

39:30

Truthful with you. Yeah, it's

39:33

been ruled on by the Supreme Court.

39:35

Investigators can lie. Greg

39:38

admitted that he went to Gardere Lane

39:40

on the night of the murder to

39:43

buy steroids from his dealer. But

39:45

we already mentioned it, right? In his

39:47

first statement, he said he went straight

39:49

home after leaving the office. And

39:51

what have you said time and time again? It's

39:54

a problem when your story changes. It

39:57

never makes you look good. No, you're

39:59

setting yourself up. up to appear to be

40:01

guilty. Now you could make an argument

40:03

that, you know, he didn't want to

40:06

disclose the fact that he was buying

40:08

steroids from a dealer. You can make

40:10

a lot of different arguments as a

40:12

defense attorney, but the minute

40:14

you change your story, I think

40:17

right away investigators think

40:20

that that means something and

40:22

let's not forget that he's putting himself on

40:24

Gardere Lane that

40:26

night. Exactly. I just

40:28

think when you're being questioned and you

40:31

decide to talk to the authorities about your

40:33

attorney, your best to say what

40:35

actually really happened, unless you're, you know, if

40:37

you're guilty, you're going to try to twist

40:39

it around. But if you went

40:41

to get some steroids, isn't that better to

40:44

say, I went to buy some

40:46

steroids versus saying, no, I just

40:48

went home and be

40:50

looked at a little differently for the murder of your wife.

40:53

I just don't know why you would want to hide

40:55

the fact that you went and bought some steroids. What's

40:58

going to happen to you? Yeah. I mean,

41:00

you know, is it a

41:02

crime? Even if it is,

41:04

it's doesn't rise to

41:06

the level of putting

41:08

yourself in the crosshairs of being

41:10

a murderer. Exactly. Greg

41:12

denied having any recent problems in

41:14

his marriage and said he and

41:16

Chiquita were working through their issues.

41:19

Greg also said he had never

41:21

hit Chiquita before. Or

41:23

of course, he's going to try to downplay all that stuff against

41:25

him. Yeah. He wants to soften it,

41:27

right? He wants to make himself look

41:30

as, as good as possible. Detectives

41:33

received an anonymous tip informing them

41:35

that Chiquita was involved in a

41:37

love triangle with two female

41:39

clients who were already in a

41:42

relationship. The police tracked down these

41:44

clients. The women explained that Chiquita

41:46

was helping them with an adoption

41:48

and their relationship with her was strictly

41:51

professional. Now police wanted

41:54

an explanation regarding this false tip.

41:56

They traced the tipster's phone to Dallas.

42:00

And they learned that the number

42:02

belonged to Greg's sister. Okay.

42:04

Little sister or big sister. So

42:07

is sisters trying to help them out? Yeah,

42:09

but she's going to have a

42:11

lot of explaining to do, right, as to why

42:14

she called in this false tip.

42:17

Or why did someone use her phone? Yeah,

42:19

that's true. She could say she

42:22

didn't do it. And I think that's

42:24

exactly what she did. When

42:26

questioned, she claimed she didn't place the

42:28

call. But the police were

42:30

suspicious, which they should have been, that

42:33

the family was trying to take suspicion

42:35

away from Greg. Greg's family

42:37

insisted he was not the killer. And

42:40

even Chiquita's sister, Danita, had a

42:42

hard time believing Greg could be

42:44

the killer. And we've seen

42:46

this time and time again. It is very

42:48

difficult for family

42:51

members to believe that,

42:53

you know, this person they've known their

42:55

whole life, and even

42:57

sometimes the in-laws, to

43:00

believe that this person is capable

43:04

of such a heinous act. Yeah.

43:07

And I think as a family member, I think

43:09

it'd be kind of natural to

43:11

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44:40

Greg's father, Silver Harris, told Dateline that

44:42

his daughter was not trying to throw

44:44

the police off with her tip. She

44:47

received this piece of information from him,

44:49

and he got it from another attorney. They

44:52

wanted the detectives to look down

44:54

all possible investigative avenues. He claimed

44:56

he didn't encourage her to call

44:59

in the tip and said

45:01

she did this on her own. So

45:03

she's saying she didn't even make the call

45:05

at all. The dad's saying

45:07

she made the call, but I gave

45:09

her the information. Well, obviously

45:11

something's not true. Yeah, definitely

45:14

somebody's lying there. Around this

45:16

time, DNA testing from the crime

45:18

scene was completed. There was

45:20

no DNA evidence on the hairs

45:22

found in Chiquita's hand because the

45:24

hairs came from a weave. These

45:27

types of hair extensions are often worn

45:29

by women. This suggested

45:31

the possibility of a female

45:33

killer. And that makes sense, right?

45:36

I mean, I know you tried to weave out

45:38

once. I did. I did. And it was, it

45:40

was not a good look. It definitely was not.

45:42

It kind of turned out to be the

45:44

the comb-over from hell. Yeah. The

45:47

lab found DNA from Greg and

45:50

an unknown male under

45:52

Chiquita's fingernails. On March

45:54

4th, the police executed a search

45:56

warrant on Greg's car and home. The

45:58

warrant stated that that Chiquita was

46:01

planning on divorcing the defendant

46:03

due to marital problems. It

46:06

was also noted that when Greg

46:08

was first interviewed, detectives noticed injuries

46:11

to his hand and left arm,

46:13

which appeared to be cuts and

46:15

scratches per the news outlet WAFB.

46:18

Well, that's not going to be

46:20

good for him. No, it's not. We talked

46:23

about how Chiquita fought for her life.

46:26

So you would think it would be

46:28

natural that whoever

46:30

killed her would have

46:32

some type of wounds. Detectives

46:35

didn't find much visual evidence, such

46:37

as weapons or bloody clothing, but

46:39

they did find a bottle of

46:42

chlorops with small visible spots of

46:44

blood on the handle. And

46:46

a box of weeds was found under

46:48

Greg's bed. Inside a

46:50

closet, investigators found the device

46:53

with an audio recording of Greg

46:55

and Chiquita having a loud argument.

46:58

It sounded like they were dividing up

47:00

their household furniture. Okay. Not

47:03

great for Greg with

47:05

a box of weeds underneath his bed, if it's

47:07

tied to the same weeds that was in her

47:10

hand. I don't think any of this

47:12

is great for Greg. I

47:14

mean, the recording kind of almost

47:16

solidifies the fact that she

47:18

was planning on leaving. Yeah. And

47:22

they didn't have this good relationship that he

47:24

said they had. That they

47:26

were working to

47:28

solve their marital issues. Detectives

47:32

sprayed luminol throughout the house and

47:34

found blood traces all throughout,

47:37

including the washer and dryer in the

47:39

closet. In Greg's vehicle, they

47:41

found a pair of safety glasses under

47:44

the seat. Testing found

47:46

a mix of Greg and Chiquita's

47:48

blood on both the Clorox

47:50

bottle and the safety glasses.

47:53

Okay. None of that is great. Right.

47:55

None of the stuff that we talked about is

47:57

great for Greg. Now. In

48:00

your mind, you can start to formulate

48:02

what or how a defense

48:05

attorney might try to combat some

48:07

of these things that they found. Greg

48:10

was charged with second degree murder

48:12

and illegal use of a

48:15

dangerous weapon on March 16,

48:17

2009. Greg was in court that day

48:19

for a hearing on an outstanding traffic

48:21

charge. He was ordered to pay a $10 fine

48:25

and was going to be released later that day. But

48:27

that was when detectives decided to charge him

48:30

with murder to keep him in jail.

48:33

Greg was indicted for second degree murder on

48:35

April 9. He bonded out

48:37

on April 17, but

48:40

was immediately re-arrested on stolen

48:42

property charges. He was able

48:44

to post bond on those charges and was

48:46

released to await trial. So it sounds

48:48

to me like they tried a bunch of different things to

48:51

keep this guy in jail. Just

48:54

two days later, Greg called the police

48:56

to report that someone tried to

48:58

kill him. Must have been the same person

49:00

that killed her is what he's probably trying

49:02

to set up. Could

49:05

be. The shooting took place around 3 a.m. on

49:07

April 20, 2009. Greg

49:10

reported that someone fired five shots into

49:13

his home while he slept. He

49:15

wasn't hit and the police found

49:17

a bullet hole in the window and

49:20

the headboard of his bed, which

49:22

indicated the shooter was trying to

49:24

kill him. Greg's father,

49:26

Silver Harris, told Dateline someone came

49:28

up to his bedroom window around

49:31

3 40 in the morning and shoots into

49:33

the bedroom window five times with

49:35

a 10 millimeter gun, hoping

49:37

that he was in bed. It just

49:40

so happened that Greg fell asleep on

49:42

the sofa. God saved him.

49:44

He was not in bed. Was

49:46

that believable? Well, not

49:48

to prosecutors because they believe

49:50

Greg might have staged this attack in

49:53

yet another attempt to throw the police

49:55

off. Greg's murder trial started on

49:57

March 22nd, 2000. In

50:00

2011, prosecutor Prim Burns told

50:02

the jury that Greg

50:04

Harris was the person who had

50:06

both the motive and opportunity to

50:08

kill Chiquita. He wanted to

50:10

kill her because she was going to leave him.

50:13

Greg had a history of

50:15

control issues in previous relationships.

50:18

And if Chiquita divorced him, he

50:20

could no longer control her. I

50:23

mean, we know there's people like this

50:25

that want to control their

50:28

relationship and control their

50:30

partner, and if they can't, it's

50:32

devastating for them. The prosecution

50:34

argued that Greg went to elaborate

50:37

lengths to avoid suspicion, including placing

50:39

the long hairs in Chiquita's hand

50:41

to suggest a female killer dumping

50:44

her wallet in a bad part

50:46

of town and staging

50:48

the attempted murder at his home.

50:51

Greg's defensive attorney, Louis Unglesby,

50:53

said there wasn't enough

50:55

evidence for a conviction. The

50:58

focus soon shifted from the trial

51:00

evidence to tensions between the prosecution

51:02

and defense. According

51:04

to WAFB, prosecutor Prim

51:07

Burns complained that Lance Unglesby

51:09

was stolen and accused him

51:11

of buffaloeing around the courtroom

51:13

like everybody else is stupid.

51:17

Like a little courtroom drama. Yeah,

51:19

apparently the two didn't like each

51:21

other. Unglesby responded, the

51:24

prosecutor is afraid of the evidence.

51:26

And to me, this is, you know, always the heart of

51:29

the trial. There's evidence for

51:31

sure. Is it enough? Is

51:33

it going to be enough for the jury

51:36

to be convinced that

51:39

Greg Harris murdered his

51:41

wife? Did you ever see the

51:43

movie with Jamie Foxx and Tommy Lee

51:45

Jones? Jamie Foxx plays this

51:47

big time attorney, but

51:50

he's normally like a personal

51:52

injury attorney, but he brings

51:54

him pulled into the case by

51:56

Tommy Lee Jones. He owns some

51:58

funeral homes. No. Oh, it's a,

52:01

it's a, it's a really good movie space on

52:03

a true story. And, uh,

52:05

but there's, there's some scenes where him

52:08

and the prosecutor or the, the other

52:10

attorney, um, there's

52:12

a lot of banter back and forth that kind

52:15

of makes me think of this, you know, it's

52:17

just like the drama. Are you going to tell

52:19

us the name of this really good movie? I

52:21

can't remember. All

52:24

right. Yeah. But it was actually, it was a good,

52:26

it came out like a year ago. I'm sure I

52:28

can Google it. Yeah. Cause we have

52:30

talked about a lot of evidence we

52:32

have, but is

52:34

it definitive? Is it enough

52:37

proof? And that's always the thing.

52:39

The jury viewed photos of the bleach

52:42

bottle found inside the home with

52:44

blood stains on the handle. The

52:46

defense said the blood was old and

52:48

could have been there long before the

52:51

murder occurred. They also suggested the possibility

52:53

that it could have been menstrual blood.

52:56

So I said, right. You can kind

52:58

of picture or think

53:00

about some of the ways that

53:03

a defense attorney is going

53:05

to try to combat the evidence. Yeah.

53:07

They're just trying to put doubt in your

53:09

mind, right? That's their job. Yeah. Well,

53:12

and it could be true. Absolutely. It could

53:14

be the jury then watched

53:17

Greg's interrogation video. Greg

53:19

was told he was a prime suspect in

53:21

the murder. A detective asked if he

53:23

thought he could get away with it. Greg

53:26

said, get away with it. I

53:28

didn't do anything to get away with. I

53:31

didn't kill my wife. During the

53:33

interview, he removed his shirt and undershirt

53:35

and challenged the police to test the

53:37

items. He said, if Chiquita's

53:39

blood is on my shirt, I'm going

53:41

down. You got me. I did it.

53:44

WAFB reported that Greg's blood

53:46

was found on those items,

53:49

but Chiquita's was not. So

53:51

the blood on his items, was that from

53:53

her defending herself against him? Or

53:56

were these even the same clothes? Yeah.

53:59

That. You know, he was

54:01

wearing when this all went down,

54:03

did he have blood on him? He

54:06

changed into new

54:08

clothes, didn't realize that maybe

54:10

he had blood on them and that blood got

54:12

on the new clothes. Yeah. Nothing

54:14

really definitive. No, but my

54:17

thought is, you know, when

54:19

you stab somebody 43 times,

54:22

you're not walking away without blood on

54:24

your clothing. It's going to be

54:26

pretty tough. I think it'd be extremely tough. Chiquita's

54:29

assistant testified that she

54:32

knew that she was having marital

54:34

problems. Chiquita told her she was

54:36

tired of being married. Officers

54:38

who responded to the domestic violence

54:40

incident in 2007 testified that no

54:44

one was immediately arrested, but Chiquita

54:46

wanted Greg to leave that night.

54:49

Before the prosecution rested, two

54:51

of Greg's former girlfriends testified

54:53

that he physically abused him.

54:56

One of them said he had

54:58

a Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde

55:00

personality. Um, you know what,

55:02

uh, brings out the Dr.

55:04

Jekyll and Mr. Hyde personality, somebody

55:07

that wants to control

55:09

the relationship and doesn't have a

55:11

problem yelling at you. So they

55:13

both wanted control, but she had

55:15

no problem arguing. Maybe

55:18

he just didn't like that. And that was, that would be

55:20

the thing to flip him. Well, and

55:22

I was also kind of thinking that

55:25

the flip might have

55:27

occurred at the point where there was

55:29

no doubt she was leaving, you

55:31

know, going back to the control, you

55:33

know, at the point where he was

55:36

certain that he was going to

55:38

lose the ability to have

55:40

any control over her. Sure. Maybe he found

55:43

some rental receipts. That might've been this, or

55:45

maybe she told him. Yeah. Just flat

55:47

out said, Hey, I'm leaving you buddy. On

55:50

April 9th, 2011, both

55:52

the prosecution and defense were

55:55

shocked when the jury convicted

55:57

Greg of manslaughter. There was

55:59

such an outburst. in the courtroom that one

56:01

person was arrested. That's pretty

56:03

interesting. I mean, you always have outbursts

56:06

and the judge has to quiet everybody

56:08

down, but people must've

56:10

kept on because somebody got arrested.

56:13

Prosecutor Prem Burns spoke to the

56:15

jury after the verdict. She told WAFB

56:17

that they had no doubt Greg

56:19

was the killer. Their smoking

56:21

gun was the wallet found

56:23

on Gardere Lane. Jurors

56:26

asked for the definition of

56:28

murder versus manslaughter. Burns

56:30

speculated that they might not have fully

56:32

understood the law. According to

56:34

Burns, the jury believes

56:36

something occurred in Chiquita's office that

56:39

incited Greg to kill her. Perhaps

56:41

she cursed at him or hit him. Burns

56:44

said that these actions would not

56:46

justify Chiquita being stabbed 43 times

56:50

and added per WFAB, if

56:52

you find that the average person's blood

56:55

would have cooled in that situation, you

56:58

cannot return a verdict of

57:00

manslaughter. It has to be second

57:02

or first degree murder. Burns said

57:04

the jury mistakenly believed the

57:06

manslaughter conviction carried the same

57:09

penalty as second degree murder.

57:11

When she told them that it didn't, some

57:14

of them started crying. Well, this is

57:16

probably why the prosecution was

57:19

shocked by them coming back with a

57:21

manslaughter finding. I

57:23

absolutely think it is. I'm

57:26

a little surprised they weren't aware because

57:28

typically a lot of that information

57:30

is spelled out for you when

57:33

you're on a jury. Yeah, like

57:35

the jury instructions and all that,

57:37

but it sounds to me,

57:40

at least according to the prosecutor

57:42

that the jury thought, you know,

57:45

Chiquita might have incited Greg,

57:48

but cursing and even,

57:51

you know, hitting someone shouldn't

57:53

result in what happened. You know, if

57:55

my wife and I get in an

57:57

argument and we're kind of yelling at

58:00

each other and she hits

58:02

me in the arm. She would never

58:04

do that, but let's just say she did. And

58:06

she'll like the fact that I'm putting her in

58:09

this. I don't have the right to

58:11

then stab her 43 times. No,

58:14

it hasn't risen to that

58:16

level. Now, if somebody breaks

58:18

into my house is

58:21

intent on doing me harm, then

58:24

I can defend myself. Yeah. But

58:26

not a certain level to a certain level, but

58:29

not, not if my wife hits me in my

58:31

arm or whatever. Should

58:33

I be reasonably concerned

58:36

for my life, for my

58:39

safety? If my 115 pound wife hits me

58:41

in the arm. No,

58:45

I weigh more than twice what she

58:47

does. Right. So, I mean, I

58:49

think that's what the prosecution is getting at.

58:52

That the jury believed

58:54

that in some way,

58:56

the level of violence

59:00

I don't want to say was valid, but

59:02

it didn't rise to murder because

59:06

they thought Greg was incited. That's, I

59:08

guess that's what I'm taking from it.

59:11

Now, obviously it sounds like once

59:13

they found out that murder

59:15

and manslaughter have two very

59:18

different sentencing guidelines,

59:22

they must have realized that they were wrong. You

59:25

know, for members of the jury to start

59:27

crying once they heard it. Burns

59:29

told WAFB the system let

59:32

Chiquita Tate down. I

59:34

feel like the system that I've spent 36 years

59:37

in let her down. Defense

59:39

attorney, Louis Unglesby explained that the

59:41

jury was told the penalty for

59:44

secondary murder, but not

59:46

the penalty for responsive verdicts.

59:49

He said, I don't know what they

59:51

think they've done. Honestly. So

59:53

I mean, I think that kind of

59:55

spells it out why both sides

59:57

were shocked. At the verdict.

59:59

I don't know what the defense attorney thought

1:00:02

was going to happen, but he's even saying

1:00:04

he doesn't understand what the jury

1:00:06

thought they were trying to do. But he's

1:00:09

happy about it. Well, I think he's happier

1:00:11

about manslaughter than he would have

1:00:14

been about second degree murder for

1:00:16

sure. Prosecutor Burns

1:00:18

told Dateline that another motive

1:00:20

was Chiquita's $60,000 life insurance

1:00:24

policy of which Greg

1:00:26

was the beneficiary. On the

1:00:28

night of the murder, Greg called his boss and

1:00:30

asked for an advance or a loan on his

1:00:32

401k. But his

1:00:35

boss told him it wasn't possible. We

1:00:37

kind of said that when police

1:00:40

looked into his financials, he

1:00:42

was having money problems. Greg's

1:00:44

attorney told Dateline that he had no

1:00:46

reason to kill Chiquita because he had

1:00:49

so much going for him. They

1:00:51

still believed the long strands of

1:00:53

hair indicated the female killer and

1:00:56

suggested two people were involved. Unglesby

1:00:59

also noted that Greg was reluctant

1:01:01

to admit he went to Gardere

1:01:03

Lane on the night of

1:01:05

the murder because buying steroids is illegal.

1:01:08

And we kind of discussed that a little

1:01:10

bit, but you go back to

1:01:12

the prosecution saying that was to

1:01:15

them kind of their smoking gun.

1:01:17

That's right. He finally admitted that

1:01:20

that night he was on Gardere

1:01:22

Lane in the same vicinity

1:01:24

of where the wallet was found. So

1:01:26

it must have been him. It's

1:01:29

a tough thing to dispute. To

1:01:31

me, it's way more than

1:01:33

a, what's the word I'm trying to shoot

1:01:35

for? Coincidence? Yeah.

1:01:39

That he happens to be in the

1:01:41

same area where the wallet's found. Yeah.

1:01:43

Yeah. I agree with that as well. I

1:01:46

also know you can't say the word coincidence

1:01:48

and you made me say it, but I

1:01:51

think you're exactly right. What

1:01:53

are the chances that he just

1:01:55

happens to be on

1:01:57

this street buying a legal wallet?

1:02:00

steroids at the

1:02:02

same place where his wife's wallet is

1:02:04

found after she's murdered. Yeah, it just

1:02:07

doesn't add up. Could it happen technically

1:02:09

yes, but what are the odds? Greg

1:02:12

Harris was sentenced to 40 years in

1:02:14

prison on September 30th 2011,

1:02:18

which was the maximum penalty for

1:02:20

a manslaughter conviction. His appeal

1:02:23

was denied in November 12th.

1:02:25

The Louisiana Supreme Court led his

1:02:27

conviction and sentence stand in May

1:02:29

2013. In

1:02:32

response, Greg filed an application

1:02:34

for post conviction relief. Greg's

1:02:36

attorney alleged that D'Nard Duhart,

1:02:38

the deceased brother of one

1:02:40

of Chiquita's former clients, was

1:02:43

the killer based on witness

1:02:45

statements. Duhart's name was also

1:02:47

brought up at trial. Duhart

1:02:49

died in 2013. He

1:02:52

was the brother of Darius

1:02:54

and D'Naco Duhart, who were

1:02:56

accused of killing a man in

1:02:59

2007. The charges against them

1:03:01

were later dismissed after several

1:03:03

witnesses were killed. And I

1:03:05

think anytime you have that situation, you're

1:03:08

looking at some very

1:03:10

dangerous individuals for sure. Now

1:03:13

let's say that they did

1:03:16

murder this man. They weren't convicted

1:03:18

of it, but let's just say they did

1:03:20

and that they were also

1:03:22

willing to murder witnesses.

1:03:24

It's gonna be tough for

1:03:26

people to stand up and testify against

1:03:29

them. Sounds like there's no

1:03:31

lying that these guys weren't willing to

1:03:33

cross. Yeah, it

1:03:35

seems like that. And I think there are people like that,

1:03:37

right? They will go to

1:03:40

any length to stay free.

1:03:43

And if they're killing people

1:03:45

anyway, they're gonna kill anyone that

1:03:48

could possibly put them in jail

1:03:50

or prison. Yeah, actually sounds like a

1:03:54

movie. Chiquita represented

1:03:56

D'Naco Duhart less

1:03:59

than two months before she was killed,

1:04:01

she persuaded the judge to release

1:04:03

him because prosecutors were not ready

1:04:05

to try him. She was

1:04:07

working on the Doo-Hert case at

1:04:10

the time of her death. According

1:04:12

to Oxygen, the brothers knew

1:04:14

they could get a continuance if she died,

1:04:17

which could be a potential motive. We

1:04:20

mentioned it earlier, right? Both of these

1:04:22

suspects were in jail at

1:04:24

the time of the murder. And that doesn't

1:04:26

mean they couldn't have orchestrated something. Oh, I

1:04:28

was thinking the same thing. I mean, surely

1:04:30

they had influence outside of the

1:04:33

prison. They probably did, but please

1:04:35

don't call me Shirley. My thought

1:04:37

is, other than getting

1:04:39

a continuance, why would they want

1:04:42

to kill Chiquita? It sounds

1:04:44

like she was doing a really good job for them. So

1:04:46

it's not out of the realm of possibility,

1:04:48

but when you stack

1:04:51

that up against Grey and

1:04:53

the likelihood of which of

1:04:55

them is more true, I mean, I

1:04:58

think you have to lean towards Greg, right? Yeah,

1:05:00

I think you have to. Greg's petition

1:05:02

was rejected in March 2016. The

1:05:05

evidence in this case points

1:05:08

to Greg Harris's The Killer. He

1:05:10

had two motives, maintaining

1:05:12

control of Chiquita in

1:05:15

any way possible and the

1:05:17

$60,000 insurance payout, which would

1:05:19

help him out of his

1:05:22

financial troubles. Pretty strong

1:05:25

motives. Yeah, pretty strong motives.

1:05:28

I think, you know, as we wrap this

1:05:30

one up, the problem for me

1:05:32

in this case is that

1:05:34

it's hard to say that there is a

1:05:37

smoking gun. And I

1:05:40

think for the prosecution, they looked

1:05:42

at him being on that street

1:05:44

where the wallet was found as

1:05:47

the smoking gun. But is it

1:05:49

definitive? Because I think, like

1:05:51

with a lot of things, you could say, well,

1:05:54

it's possible he was there buying a

1:05:56

legal steroid. Yeah. And just happened to

1:05:58

be in the of this wallet. Now,

1:06:01

I don't believe that, and I don't

1:06:03

think it's that likely, but

1:06:05

could you say that it's

1:06:07

possible? Yes. And

1:06:09

that's where

1:06:12

this idea of reasonable doubt

1:06:14

comes in. Now, we

1:06:17

know the jury thought he was guilty. Why

1:06:20

they voted for

1:06:22

manslaughter, that is still

1:06:24

a little perplexing. And

1:06:27

I think according to the research,

1:06:29

some of them were pretty sorry about

1:06:31

it afterwards. Like they

1:06:34

just didn't understand the implications

1:06:37

of what they were doing. I mean, he

1:06:39

still got 40 years. He

1:06:41

did, but he's going to

1:06:43

get out. Yeah, I get it. I mean,

1:06:45

it's not the best scenario,

1:06:47

but hopefully they keep him

1:06:49

in for the bulk of that

1:06:52

40. Yeah. I mean, obviously he would

1:06:54

have gotten a much longer sentence with

1:06:56

a second degree murder conviction. So if

1:07:00

he is the killer, which it's kind

1:07:02

of hard not to believe that he

1:07:04

is, in my eyes, he

1:07:06

got off light. Yeah. Because

1:07:09

he's going to come up for parole

1:07:11

probably pretty early into

1:07:13

those 40 years. Now, whether he gets out or

1:07:15

not, we'll have to wait and

1:07:17

see, but the odds are probably in his

1:07:19

favor. Yeah. Yeah, they probably

1:07:21

are. But there's no doubt

1:07:24

that Chiquita was a talented

1:07:26

attorney. She would have

1:07:28

gone on most likely to have a

1:07:30

very successful career. The murder

1:07:32

of Chiquita Tate was a

1:07:34

major loss for the Baton

1:07:36

Rouge legal community because she

1:07:38

was dedicated to serving her

1:07:40

clients and representing vulnerable groups

1:07:42

of people. Now, did she have a

1:07:44

temper? Yeah. Sounds like she did, but

1:07:47

was she still a good person? To me,

1:07:49

it sounds like she was. Yeah. Maybe that temper

1:07:52

helped her in her legal field. Well,

1:07:54

you know, being a type A

1:07:57

personality and being able

1:07:59

to... to be direct

1:08:01

and, you know, kind of forceful when

1:08:03

you need to. I don't

1:08:06

think that hurts you as an

1:08:08

attorney. Could be beneficial. Now, one thing

1:08:10

that jumps out to me in this case is

1:08:12

if there wasn't all

1:08:14

this evidence that

1:08:17

Chiquita was planning on leaving

1:08:19

gray, you know, they

1:08:21

had the recording, right? About

1:08:24

them splitting up assets. She

1:08:27

had signed a lease agreement. She

1:08:29

had paid three months in advance.

1:08:31

I mean, it's very obvious that

1:08:34

she was leaving. And I think

1:08:37

Greg knew that without all

1:08:39

of that, you could make the

1:08:41

argument that it wouldn't

1:08:43

have been beneficial for Greg to kill

1:08:46

Chiquita, even for the

1:08:49

$60,000 in life insurance. I'm

1:08:52

sure she was making pretty good money and

1:08:55

would have only continued to make

1:08:57

more money year after year. Absolutely.

1:09:00

But if she leaves and

1:09:02

they get a divorce, then, you

1:09:04

know, obviously there's a divorce settlement, but

1:09:07

moving forward, he's not going to

1:09:09

be part of that

1:09:12

lucrative payday. Yeah. The

1:09:14

future income. Yeah. The future income.

1:09:16

So whether it was needing

1:09:18

the $60,000 because of his financial troubles or

1:09:21

whether it was the loss of her and the loss of

1:09:24

the control that he craved, there's

1:09:27

a couple of different motives there, but

1:09:31

it's just, it's strange that the jury came to

1:09:33

a decision that he did it,

1:09:36

but they came back with manslaughter when

1:09:38

if they were right, you

1:09:42

know, he stabbed her 43 times and one of

1:09:45

those was a fatal slash to

1:09:47

the neck or a fatal wound to the neck. And

1:09:49

they had the definition of second degree murder and

1:09:51

what that meant in front of

1:09:54

them. But he, Even

1:10:00

the defense attorney kind of

1:10:02

said that it was almost

1:10:04

like they didn't get everything or they

1:10:06

didn't understand what they got as

1:10:09

far as instructions. So nonetheless,

1:10:12

a very interesting

1:10:14

case, even though

1:10:16

most of it pretty circumstantial, hard

1:10:19

not to believe that Greg Harris

1:10:21

was the killer. And he

1:10:24

is serving time, but I don't think

1:10:26

he'll serve the amount of time that

1:10:28

he probably should. We got some voicemails,

1:10:30

Gibbs. You want to check those out? Yeah, it's here. Hey,

1:10:33

Mike and Gibby. Longtime

1:10:36

listener here from South Bend,

1:10:38

Indiana. My name is

1:10:40

Sarah and I have

1:10:42

been listening to your show for quite a few years.

1:10:45

And I first started really

1:10:47

listening to it when I was

1:10:50

in quarantine with my daughter when

1:10:52

she was a baby. There

1:10:54

just, there wasn't a whole lot to do. So

1:10:56

I got into watching and listening to a lot

1:10:59

of true cry. And now

1:11:01

I have a son who is almost

1:11:03

three months old. And sometimes

1:11:05

when he's being just a little extra

1:11:07

busty, I will pop

1:11:10

in my earbuds and listen to

1:11:12

a podcast to help me

1:11:14

keep my cool. And I

1:11:16

just want to say that I appreciate all

1:11:18

the content that you guys put out, the

1:11:20

research that you do, and for

1:11:23

bringing us a good show

1:11:25

every week. So be

1:11:27

safe and keep your own time ticking. Well,

1:11:30

appreciate the voicemail very much. Yeah,

1:11:33

it's been a long time for both

1:11:35

of us since we had a three

1:11:37

month old. Well, a long time, but

1:11:39

I can remember, those are

1:11:42

some wonderful, but sometimes

1:11:45

very trying time. Absolutely.

1:11:47

Because sometimes no matter

1:11:49

what you do, you just can't soothe

1:11:53

a young baby like that. And

1:11:56

you try and try and try. And sometimes

1:11:58

it's hard not to get. Frustrated. Let's

1:12:01

see if you're tired. Which you're

1:12:03

going to be. Exactly. If you've got a three

1:12:05

month old. She's for sure. She said

1:12:07

she was up there in South Bend. Yeah. Rudy.

1:12:10

Rudy. I love

1:12:13

that movie. And I don't know how many times I've

1:12:15

seen it, but if I watched it right now, I

1:12:17

would cry. Yeah. There's just, there's

1:12:19

some movies, even though I

1:12:21

know what's going to happen, it's

1:12:23

so moving to me at, you

1:12:25

know, at the end of Rudy that I

1:12:28

will ball. Gets you every time.

1:12:30

Gets me every time. Marley and

1:12:32

me, same way. Yeah. I lose it every

1:12:34

time. Hey guys, it's dispatch

1:12:36

Elisa. Long time, no hearing from me.

1:12:38

I'm sure you're wondering if I was

1:12:40

still alive. Well, I am. Thanks for

1:12:43

the shout out, by the way. And

1:12:45

as far as miscoding the

1:12:47

call of the shooting,

1:12:49

our computer automatically assigns

1:12:51

a priority to incidents.

1:12:54

Shooting, stabbing, medical

1:12:57

aid call. Those are the highest priorities.

1:12:59

So unless the dispatcher put

1:13:02

a totally different call type in,

1:13:04

I can't imagine it. Or unless they

1:13:06

have to do it manually. Anyway,

1:13:09

that is a, I can't even call

1:13:11

that a mistake. That is gross negligence

1:13:13

if you ask me. So, and I

1:13:16

rarely talk badly about other dispatchers as

1:13:18

right now I'm headed into another 12

1:13:20

hour shift. I have five of those

1:13:22

today and I've got to work two

1:13:24

of my days off for four hours

1:13:26

each. But I guess

1:13:28

that's just the life I chose. So

1:13:30

you guys have a great day. Keep

1:13:33

safe and keep your own time ticking. Always

1:13:35

love to hear from Lisa. And

1:13:37

I knew we would because that

1:13:39

was a very specific incident.

1:13:42

It was. And we need her

1:13:44

expertise to talk about. And

1:13:46

again, I don't know what they had back then,

1:13:49

whether they had that type of

1:13:51

automation that she's talking about or

1:13:53

is just miscoding, but we try

1:13:55

not to talk too bad about, you know,

1:13:58

emergency dispatchers because. I do believe it's a

1:14:00

very tough job. Oh, it has to be.

1:14:02

But you even hear her say it. That

1:14:05

type of mistake is gross negligence and

1:14:07

it's kind of hard not to think

1:14:10

it is. Yeah. We had

1:14:12

no mail bag this week. So that's it,

1:14:14

Gibbs, for another episode of True Crime All

1:14:16

the Time. So for Mike and Gibby, stay

1:14:18

safe and keep your own time ticking. If

1:14:56

you're listening to this podcast, then chances

1:14:58

are good. You are a fan of

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