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500 500.

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That's audible.com/TCAT or text TCAT to

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500 500. Hello

1:50

everyone and welcome to episode 383 of

1:52

the True Crime All the Time podcast.

1:54

I'm Mike Ferguson. And with me as

1:56

always is my partner in true crime,

1:59

Mike Gibson. and give me, how are you? Hey, I'm

2:01

doing good. How about you, man? I'm doing really well.

2:03

I've had a great week until

2:05

today. Until today. I

2:08

have a loose cricket in

2:11

my basement in the studio.

2:13

Yeah. And I'm worried

2:15

that there's gonna be some noises

2:17

in the background. You know,

2:20

my daughter has these geckos. Right.

2:22

And somehow, when she goes to

2:24

get crickets, these crickets get loose.

2:27

Well, we can name him Jiminy. We

2:30

could. We can pick up the tar,

2:32

start strumming it to

2:35

scare him off. Maybe, or maybe he'll come on over

2:37

and wanna sing with us. And then you

2:39

keep him busy while I put the cup over

2:41

him. Okay. Well, I haven't heard

2:43

him in a while, so hopefully he's gone

2:46

on to somewhere else. But let's

2:48

go ahead and give our Patreon

2:50

shout outs. We had Rodney. Hey,

2:52

Rodney. Stephanie Leopold. What's going on,

2:55

Stephanie? Rama Johnson. Oh, thanks, Rama.

2:57

Eric Ass. Hey, Erica. Wyler. Wyler?

3:00

Wyler. Okay. Lindsey Clark.

3:02

Hey, Lindsey. Aaron Manning. Oh,

3:05

what's going on? Peyton, sister,

3:08

cousin. Somebody related

3:10

to Peyton Manning. You know,

3:12

there's some other famous mannings too. Yeah,

3:15

his brother. He's got a brother. Jess.

3:18

What's going on, Jess? Donnell Stacy. Well,

3:20

thanks, Donnell. And don't think I'm letting

3:23

it slip that you said cousin. With

3:26

AT. We had Deborah

3:28

Watts. Well, thanks, Deborah. And last but not

3:30

least, Sage. Sage, I like that. Yeah, and

3:33

then if we go back into the vault,

3:36

this week we selected Cassandra

3:39

Rupert. Hey, thanks, Cassandra. We

3:41

also had a great PayPal donation on

3:45

behalf of Theo

3:47

and Christopher, the Greek boys.

3:50

Oh, the Greek boys, man. I love

3:52

that Greek tzatziki. You like that, huh?

3:54

Yeah, you ever had that tzatziki? Is that the

3:56

little sauce? Yeah, a little, you know, I don't

3:58

know, cucumber. Cucumber. Yeah.

4:01

Yeah. Yeah. I like, uh,

4:04

Mediterranean type food. You know

4:06

that. Oh yeah. Olives. That's

4:08

my favorite. Any

4:10

type of, uh, different meats,

4:13

and cheeses. I do like those.

4:15

Yeah. Yep. I've had those a number of

4:18

times. It's tough. So we appreciate all

4:20

the support. We do. Because we

4:22

have an episode out right now on

4:24

True Crime All the Time Unsolved, where

4:26

we're talking about Rebecca Coriam. She

4:29

was a 24 year old British woman

4:31

who was working on a Disney cruise

4:33

ship. And

4:35

she disappeared from the ship in March, 2011. So

4:39

there are a lot of theories about what happened

4:41

to Rebecca. We'll go through all

4:43

those in the episode from, you

4:46

know, her being swept overboard to

4:48

her being pushed overboard after,

4:53

you know, some type of horrible event. And

4:56

there's some video on the ship

4:58

too to talk about. So always makes me

5:00

nervous because lately you see quite

5:02

a few stories around people falling

5:05

off cruise ships or not sure how

5:07

it happened, but they're missing. It makes

5:09

me a little nervous about ever going on a cruise. You

5:12

just went on one. Yeah, I just went on one. But

5:14

if you think about it, you are

5:16

out in the middle of an ocean.

5:19

Yeah. And granted

5:22

I'm assuming, especially today, there

5:24

are cameras everywhere. So

5:26

I don't know how you could get away

5:28

with a whole lot, but you

5:30

know, if you, if you were

5:33

standing next to somebody, you're on the

5:35

balcony, it's not like

5:38

all of those railings are so tall that

5:40

you couldn't push somebody overboard. You

5:42

definitely could. Yeah. At least

5:44

not the ones I've been on. I had that fear

5:46

of being in open water by myself. You

5:49

should. I don't think anybody

5:52

should take that

5:54

lightly. Yeah. Yeah. All right,

5:56

buddy. Are you ready to get into this episode of true

5:58

crime all the time? I am ready. We're

6:00

talking about Stephen Allwine. Stephen

6:03

had a normal, seemingly happy

6:05

life. He was married, had

6:08

a son. He was even

6:10

an elder at his local church. In

6:13

2016, the FBI became aware

6:15

of a contract to

6:17

kill his wife, Amy. The Allwines

6:20

were warned and encouraged

6:22

to increase their home security. But

6:24

Amy was killed months later. And

6:27

as often happens in these types of

6:29

cases, you know, the investigators are going

6:32

to look at the husband. But

6:34

I would just want to take a minute

6:36

to kind of talk about what that would

6:38

be like. You're reached out

6:41

to by the FBI and

6:43

they're saying, Hey, we've

6:45

got some information that

6:48

there's a contract on your wife's

6:50

life. Okay. Increasing my

6:53

home security. That's

6:55

a given. For sure. There's going to have

6:57

to be at least more than that. I

7:00

would think the FBI might even

7:03

say, let's have a park

7:05

car outside or something, right? Yeah, I don't know,

7:07

you know, how they

7:09

make those decisions, but that

7:11

would be scary. No doubt about it.

7:14

Stephen and Amy Allwine married in either

7:16

1996 or 1998. And

7:20

this happens a lot, but we had two

7:23

different sources that reported this information

7:25

48 hours had

7:28

one year and state

7:30

versus Allwine had another.

7:33

You wouldn't think that would happen, but it

7:35

happens quite a bit. Oh, so many times.

7:38

Both Stephen and Amy were 43

7:40

years old when Amy was

7:42

killed. The Allwines lived in

7:44

Cottage Grove, Minnesota, a

7:47

suburb of Minneapolis. Stephen

7:49

was a freelance IT expert

7:52

and worked from home. Amy ran

7:54

a dog training business on their

7:56

property. Well, you know, that's a

7:58

good business. Got to train those. dogs, right? But

8:01

it's also kind of cool that they both

8:03

were able to kind of work at

8:05

home. If, if that

8:07

works out, right? Sometimes people can't work

8:09

together. Well, when you say work

8:12

together, you mean work even

8:14

separately, but be home at the same

8:16

time. In the same space. 24

8:18

seven. Yeah. I do remember

8:21

during the kind of the height of

8:23

COVID, when my wife was home, she

8:26

was teaching, but

8:28

remotely. And obviously I

8:30

was working from home as I have for

8:32

a number of years. It was

8:34

a little different. Yeah. Let's,

8:36

let's put it that way. I'll

8:38

use a euphemism. Yeah. Just leave

8:40

it at that. Right. There is

8:42

something about, you know, being with someone

8:45

essentially 24 hours a day,

8:48

every day. Now, maybe for some

8:50

couples, that's great. They love it. Others

8:53

need a, just a little bit of

8:55

a break. Just a

8:58

little separation. Yes. And then when you do

9:00

see that person, you're like, Oh, I haven't seen

9:02

you in eight hours because I've been at work

9:04

or you've been at work. And, you know,

9:07

that kind of makes, that keeps the marriage

9:10

fresh. Right. Let's spend the next half an hour together

9:12

and then we'll go a couple of ways. Again. Yeah.

9:14

Steven and Amy adopted a son named

9:17

Joseph who was nine years old when

9:19

his mother was killed. According

9:21

to 48 hours, the All wines had

9:23

a quote, quintessentially

9:27

American life. And this

9:29

is not unusual. We talk about people

9:32

quite a bit who, and I

9:35

always say, you know, you're looking at it

9:37

from the street level.

9:40

Right. Into the home. And you

9:42

would say, Oh, these

9:44

people got the perfect life. You know,

9:46

they got the great house. They've got

9:48

some money. They've got a great marriage.

9:50

They seem to be doing wonderfully,

9:53

but is that really the case?

9:55

Because, you know, from the outside

9:57

looking in, you don't know what's

9:59

going on inside someone's

10:01

house. There's just no way for you

10:03

to know it. No way, man. Cause

10:06

I, I, I live that, that

10:08

neighbor that used to live across me. Oh,

10:11

the one that killed someone? Killed his wife and kid.

10:14

Yeah. And you would have thought, Oh, it's a great

10:16

guy. They acted like they were the perfect

10:19

family. They were so happy. And then

10:21

to find out. No, not

10:23

the story. Steven and Amy

10:25

were members of the local branch

10:28

of the United Church of God.

10:30

Steven was a church elder. He

10:32

gave sermons and counseling to members

10:34

of the congregation. The United

10:36

Church of God does not condone

10:38

infidelity or divorce. According to state

10:41

versus all one, the United

10:43

Church of God website states, even

10:45

if couples have a short courtship, fail

10:48

to counsel before marrying or

10:51

have dysfunctional backgrounds, none

10:53

of these recognized troubles justified

10:55

the later putting away of

10:58

an imprints. These, it says divorcing

11:00

a mate with the freedom to

11:02

remarry marriage is a commitment for

11:05

life. Failure to plan

11:07

properly is not grounds for the

11:09

future dissolving of a marriage.

11:12

I think there's a few churches that

11:14

follow that. Um, way

11:16

of thinking. Yeah. Yeah. No, I agree

11:19

with you. Now we know that for

11:22

some people, you, there

11:24

comes a point where they just realize

11:27

they're, they can't function together.

11:29

They can't live together. They can't

11:31

overcome their differences or

11:33

whatever it is. But

11:35

if you belong to this church, okay, what

11:38

do you do? You're either leaving

11:41

the church or you're

11:43

staying in a marriage that could

11:45

be potentially toxic. Yeah. Either one of

11:47

you or both of you are unhappy

11:49

being in. If a church

11:52

elder is caught committing adultery, they

11:54

lose their position and maybe ask

11:56

to leave the church. And

11:58

this is important because. even had

12:00

at least three affairs starting in

12:02

2014. Well,

12:04

look, if you're going to be a

12:07

church elder leader and part of your rules

12:11

is that you are not allowed to have

12:13

affairs, can't get divorced. If you're

12:15

a leader, you need to lead by example. So

12:18

I, that's a problem, right? I

12:20

mean, do I believe that you can't

12:22

get divorced? No, I think if you want divorce,

12:25

you get divorced, but for that church and for

12:27

what he was doing, you lead

12:29

by example. So you shouldn't be having

12:31

affairs, you know, if you're going to

12:34

be a leader. Well, it's, it's obviously

12:36

very hypocritical. Sure. Right. He, we mentioned

12:38

it. Here's the guy who's giving sermons.

12:40

He's counseling other members.

12:43

And I'm sure a lot of that was,

12:46

you know, don't have affairs,

12:48

don't commit adultery, all this while

12:50

at the same time he's out

12:53

flandering. Doing what he's telling them not to do. In

12:56

early 2016, a contract

12:58

was taken out on Amy

13:00

Allwine's life. Once the police

13:02

became aware of the plot, it

13:05

took months to prove who

13:07

was behind the contract. In

13:10

February, 2016, a person

13:12

with the username dog

13:14

day God visited base

13:17

mafia, a site on

13:19

the dark web advertising hired hits

13:22

base mafia claimed to be affiliated

13:24

with Albanian organized crime,

13:27

according to the Washington post

13:30

that Albania organized crime, tough

13:32

guys. Well, let's talk about the dark web. Yeah.

13:35

Have you ever been on the dark web? Now,

13:38

you know, I can't answer that. Well, that's true.

13:41

I can say I have not. What

13:43

I will say is I have thought

13:45

about it because you kind of see

13:48

it in movies. And sure. You know,

13:50

you have this fascination of what's

13:53

on there. Yeah. And, but I've

13:55

always been scared

13:58

because I think, you know, you. You

14:00

have, I'm sure all these hackers on

14:02

there and that's

14:04

a frightening thought that

14:07

they would somehow get control of

14:09

my computer, but I think the

14:11

bigger fear is that

14:14

I would accidentally stumble into some

14:17

site that would be illegal.

14:20

And obviously I would not want that to happen.

14:22

I'll tell you what, at the next break, I'm

14:25

going to set my laptop right here. Well,

14:27

I'm gone. Click on the little tiny

14:30

little black box in the corner and

14:33

browse. So that you

14:35

have a plausible deniability, as they would

14:37

say. Exactly. Okay. Are you going to

14:40

put in your government clearance for me

14:42

to really, it's there already. Oh, it

14:44

just, I have the software

14:46

that just automatically does everything. Yeah. Yeah.

14:50

But you know, it is a real thing. This

14:52

dark web. I kind of thought when I first

14:54

heard it years ago, I thought

14:56

people were just kind of making

14:58

that up, which I think was as a website

15:00

that had a dark background. I had no idea

15:02

what it really was, but you know,

15:05

over the years, obviously it's been proven

15:07

that it's real and you

15:09

can hire hit men, you can

15:12

view all kinds of illegal

15:15

pornography, you can buy

15:17

drugs, you can do

15:19

things that you can't do.

15:21

And shouldn't be able to do anyway,

15:24

but can't do on the, uh, the

15:26

regular internet. Very bad people out there.

15:28

Yeah. But you know who else is out there? Very

15:31

good people. I hate crusaders like

15:33

yourself. Dog

15:36

Day God messaged a

15:38

user by the name of Yuria on

15:41

the base of mafia site. Dog

15:44

Day God wanted Amy killed in a

15:46

car crash that was supposed to look

15:48

like an accident. Dog Day God

15:50

told base of mafia that Amy

15:53

quote, tore my family apart

15:55

by sleeping with my husband and

15:58

is stealing clients from my. business

16:00

per the Washington Post. So

16:03

I think when you hear that

16:06

quote of what this

16:09

person dog day, God wrote

16:11

that lead you to believe that

16:14

dog day. God is a woman. Yeah.

16:18

That's what most people would make

16:21

that conclusion. Dog day. God

16:23

sent a second message to base

16:25

a mafia requesting that Amy be

16:27

killed while she was at a

16:29

dog training convention in

16:31

Moline, Illinois, which is

16:33

right next to Moline, Illinois, which

16:37

I know you're very familiar with. I'm

16:39

familiar with everything and every place in

16:42

Illinois. Yeah. Yes. And that's one of

16:44

your favorite States. 48

16:46

hours published the following messages dog

16:49

day. God wrote, I'm looking to hire you

16:51

for a hit. Urea replied,

16:54

we can plan the hit when you're traveling

16:56

outside the city for a day or two,

16:59

this makes everyone know you could not

17:01

be the murderer. Okay. I

17:04

don't want to give people like this credit, but

17:06

you know, that's smart. Good

17:08

alibi. Right. That's a good alibi.

17:11

Doesn't mean you couldn't have arranged

17:14

for something, but it does mean that

17:17

you couldn't have pulled the trigger or

17:19

done the deed yourself.

17:21

Exactly. Dog day. God

17:23

wrote the target will be traveling

17:25

out of town to Moline, Illinois.

17:28

What is the price in Bitcoin for

17:30

a hit and ideally making

17:32

it look like an accident? You're

17:35

a wrote back normal killing by gunshot is

17:37

$5,000 killing to make it look like

17:41

accident is 5,000 plus max 4,000. Okay.

17:46

That does not seem like

17:49

a lot of money. It really doesn't. It sounds

17:51

like a hit. Okay.

17:53

It's not too bad of a

17:56

price. Now I am not

17:58

admittedly familiar. with Bitcoin,

18:01

but my understanding is that Bitcoin

18:04

is what kind of makes

18:07

the dark web run because

18:09

it's not as traceable, I

18:11

guess, or something like, you're not putting in

18:13

your credit card is what I'm saying. Yeah,

18:16

it's more harder

18:19

to track down. I

18:21

don't own any Bitcoin, I've never bought any,

18:23

so I really don't know how all that

18:25

works. Well, I own some, but I bought

18:27

it the wrong way. I

18:30

typed in coin bit, and

18:33

so I own some coin bit. Which

18:36

is worth nothing. Exactly. Dog

18:40

Day God gave base of mafia,

18:42

the address of Amy's hotel, a

18:44

description of Amy and her vehicle,

18:47

and a photo of Amy. Dog

18:49

Day God paid base of mafia

18:52

with Bitcoin. Originally, base

18:54

of mafia asked for $6,000 in Bitcoin,

18:56

at one point claiming that the

19:01

hit man had been arrested, and

19:04

the price increased to $12,000 worth of Bitcoin.

19:08

It's a pretty good way to get some more money.

19:10

I mean, if it didn't really happen that

19:12

way, right? Well, the guy I hired for you

19:14

got your money, but he got arrested. So

19:17

if you want this done, you're going to have

19:19

to pay another six so I can make it

19:21

happen for you. Well, let's be honest. If

19:24

you're on the dark web negotiating

19:26

with a hit man,

19:29

or an organization that will do

19:32

a hit, I don't know

19:34

that it's always going to be a real

19:37

reputable interaction. Well, that's

19:40

true. You know, I mean,

19:43

you're going to get taken for a ride, I

19:45

would think, because how are they going

19:47

to come back? What are they going to do? Call the

19:49

police and say, hey, I'm trying

19:51

to get this hit put out on my

19:53

wife, but yeah, money.

19:55

This guy's extorting me. He's like, and

19:58

for a pinch and for. a

20:00

pound. I think it's penny. Oh,

20:03

but we'll go with pens. Prosecutor

20:07

Jamie Krausser told

20:09

48 hours that dog

20:11

day got use Bitcoin

20:13

because Bitcoin is untraceable

20:16

because when you use Bitcoin, it's done

20:18

through what is called a wallet. So

20:21

it makes a lot of sense, right? Why that's

20:23

the preferred currency on

20:25

the dark web. Sure. If

20:27

you're buying drugs, if you're

20:30

buying things that are

20:32

illegal, if you're arranging hits, obviously

20:35

you're paying somebody, but you don't want to

20:37

be traced. And the more

20:39

that I'm learning about this dark web,

20:41

the more I know I'll never go

20:43

on it. Cause it sounds scary as

20:45

all get out. Dog day

20:47

God's messages became more impatient as

20:49

time passed. For example, on March

20:51

20th, 2016, dog day God wrote,

20:56

I want her gone. I

20:58

need her gone. Okay. Just

21:00

break down those two

21:03

little snippet. Yeah. There's some

21:05

urgency there. Sure is. I

21:08

want her gone. Okay. That's one thing.

21:11

I need her gone. Well, there's

21:13

a, that's a different level of urgency.

21:16

At one point dog day, God

21:18

said, I need this bitch dead. So

21:21

please help me really begging at

21:23

this point, pleading in

21:25

May 2016, the FBI

21:28

discovered the base of mafia website

21:31

after a hacker published the customer

21:33

list. The FBI discovered

21:35

dozens of requests for contract

21:37

killings all over the world,

21:39

including the hit on Amy

21:42

all one. And you know, you hear

21:44

the word hacker, you kind of think

21:46

of somebody doing something bad.

21:49

Yeah. But that's not always the case.

21:51

No, sometimes they do good things. Yeah. The

21:54

FBI went to the cottage grove

21:56

police with this information. Detective Terry

21:58

Raymond met with Steven and Amy

22:00

on May 31st, 2016. Detective

22:05

Raymond told 48 Hours that the

22:08

FBI did not tell him about

22:10

BESA Mafia or the user

22:12

Dog Day Guy. All they said

22:14

was that the murder was ordered on the dark

22:17

web. Amy was shocked by

22:19

this news, but she was able to

22:21

provide a list of people who could

22:23

potentially have a motive to kill her.

22:26

There was no evidence of the Dog

22:28

Day account on any of

22:30

their devices. Still a little freaky,

22:32

right? If the FBI comes to your door and

22:34

tells you that there's a hit

22:37

on your life, can you provide me a

22:39

list of people that might want you dead? How

22:42

hard would that be for you to produce that list? For

22:44

me? Yeah. Not

22:46

as hard as it would be for you. Oh, I

22:49

have the right list. You'd have to take a week off

22:52

just to compile that

22:54

list. Yeah. I

22:56

mean, because you're talking internationally and all

22:58

the things you've done around the world,

23:01

you know, I'm pretty confined here

23:03

in the state of Ohio. Yeah. That's

23:06

true. And you don't make

23:08

a lot of enemies from your

23:11

basement. Very true. But

23:14

in all seriousness, you know,

23:16

you can imagine sitting on the couch

23:18

in your living room, husband

23:20

and wife with the

23:22

FBI learning that there's a

23:25

hit out on the wife's life.

23:27

I mean, you know, how do you, number

23:30

one, process that? And

23:32

then what do you do or what

23:35

steps do you take moving forward? The

23:37

police advise Steven and Amy to

23:40

increase their home security. Like

23:42

I said earlier, that would be a given, right? It's

23:45

like minimum, right? Minimum. If

23:48

you don't already have good

23:50

home security, well, you better get it.

23:53

You might want to get

23:55

a German Shepherd or Rottweiler and

23:58

some other dog. Chihuahua? No.

24:02

Although, this could be a

24:04

good alert dog. That's true. They

24:06

installed a video surveillance system

24:09

and obtained a permit for

24:11

a 9mm handgun. As

24:14

a TCAT listener, you know the world

24:16

can be a dangerous and unpredictable place.

24:19

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24:21

one thing. Your best line of defense

24:23

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24:25

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24:28

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24:32

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25:32

There's no safe like

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SimpliSafe. This episode is brought to

25:37

you in part by June's Journey. Picture

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it, the glamour of the

25:42

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25:44

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iOS and Android. Your

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adventure awaits. Over

26:16

the next few weeks, Amy received

26:19

anonymous emails telling her to end

26:21

her life. Emails came

26:23

from a person identifying themselves

26:25

as Jane. Jane accused

26:27

Amy of stealing her husband. Emails

26:30

contained details that suggested

26:32

she was under surveillance.

27:00

This is coming from a woman

27:02

now identifying herself as

27:05

Jane. Vice

27:08

published an excerpt of an email that

27:10

said, commit suicide. If you

27:13

do not, then you

27:15

will slowly see things taken away from

27:17

you. And each time you will know

27:19

that you could have stopped

27:21

it, which will eat you apart from

27:23

the inside. And that is horrible.

27:26

It is. To tell someone

27:28

to do that. I

27:30

understand there are people who make

27:33

that decision to end their life, but

27:36

no one should ever be

27:38

told to do that in

27:40

a, especially in a

27:42

bullying sort of way. Yeah.

27:45

I mean, they're trying to dictate how you should do

27:48

things. And if you don't, bad things are

27:50

going to happen to you. In July, 2016, Amy

27:53

was sent another death threat via

27:55

email. It said per 48 hours,

27:57

Amy, I. still

28:00

blame me for my life falling apart.

28:02

Here's what's going to happen. I

28:04

will come after everything else that you love.

28:07

Here's how you can save your family, commit

28:09

suicide. So why not do it

28:11

now and save them? I

28:14

think your anxiety would really increase at

28:16

this point. Oh, through the roof. I

28:18

think you'd have trouble sleeping, all of

28:20

that. But what I

28:23

really want to break down here is

28:25

that, you know, in these two

28:27

emails, yes, the person is

28:30

saying bad things are going

28:32

to happen to you, but they're not

28:34

saying that they're going to kill Amy.

28:37

They are wanting her to end

28:39

her life herself. They're going to try

28:42

to keep pushing on her until she does

28:44

what they want her to do. Now,

28:46

this email only increased Amy's

28:48

worries because now she feared

28:51

for her son's safety. The sender

28:53

managed to anonymize their

28:56

email, making it untraceable. Still

28:59

the FBI started an investigation.

29:02

Steven and Amy's coworkers were interviewed

29:04

and two laptops were searched, but

29:06

there really were no leads. Amy

29:09

Allwine was murdered on November 13th,

29:12

2016. So

29:15

this was just a matter of months after

29:18

she received that second

29:20

email. I was trying to figure

29:22

out how, uh, their coworkers seen

29:25

this and thought about this. Well, I'm

29:27

sure they had to be worried for Amy,

29:29

but I think at the

29:31

same time, there was probably some,

29:34

some self preservation worries, right? They

29:36

would have known that they didn't send the

29:38

emails, but I think anytime you're being looked

29:41

at by any

29:43

agency and maybe especially

29:45

the FBI, you're going to be

29:47

a little concerned. Steven

29:50

got up just before 6am that

29:52

morning and went to his office

29:54

in the basement to get some work done

29:56

around 12pm. Steven

29:59

went upstairs to. have lunch with Amy and

30:01

their son. After lunch, Amy

30:03

told Steven, she felt dizzy and

30:06

lightheaded and was going to rest in

30:08

bed. Amy searched for symptoms

30:10

of vertigo on the day

30:12

she died. And this is a little

30:14

scary to me because I think I mentioned it to

30:16

you. I have been having some of this off and

30:19

on, right? I had it kind of pretty

30:21

bad for a week or two, and then

30:24

it went away for a while. And

30:26

now recently it's come back. It's

30:28

like, whenever I stand up, get

30:31

out of bed, or when I lay down, I'm

30:33

having this room spinning

30:35

feeling. According to Allwine

30:38

versus State, Steven's last employment action

30:40

occurred at 1251 PM. At

30:44

one PM, Amy's father arrived

30:46

at the house to finish a home

30:48

project. He started a few days earlier.

30:51

Steven told him Amy was in

30:53

bed because she wasn't feeling well.

30:56

Amy's dad didn't see her the whole time

30:58

he was in the house. He left at

31:01

2 PM, but Steven called minutes

31:03

later and asked him to come

31:05

back to pick up Joseph so he could take

31:07

Amy to a clinic. Amy's dad

31:09

returned to the house and picked up Joseph.

31:12

Steven and Amy were alone in the house.

31:15

So nothing too bizarre, right? We've all been there.

31:17

You know, when we've asked our mother-in-law,

31:20

father-in-law, somebody to come

31:22

over and help out. Yeah. And I

31:24

think, you know, on the part

31:26

of Amy's dad, he probably wouldn't have thought

31:28

that this was weird at all. You

31:30

know, all right. My daughter's not

31:33

feeling well. She's laying down in the

31:35

bed. I'm not going to

31:37

go up and bother her. I'm just going

31:39

to, you know, do my project and leave,

31:41

let her sleep. And then

31:43

you get a call saying, okay,

31:46

she's obviously still not feeling well. Steven

31:48

wants to take her to the clinic. So

31:51

I'll come back and pick up

31:53

Joseph. Now all that seems very normal.

31:55

At 5.30 PM, Steven came to

31:57

his father-in-law's house to pick up.

32:00

Joseph. Amy's dad asked

32:02

about her diagnosis at the clinic.

32:04

Steven said Amy changed her mind and

32:07

decided not to go. Steven

32:09

and Joseph got home at

32:11

approximately 652 pm. Joseph

32:13

found Amy on the floor with a pool

32:15

of blood around her head. He called

32:18

911 at approximately 7

32:20

pm. During the call he told

32:23

the dispatcher, I think my

32:25

wife shot herself. There's blood all

32:27

over. According to 48 hours,

32:30

Joseph asked during the call why

32:32

did she shoot herself. He also

32:34

asked his dad, are you

32:36

going to remarry? Steven said,

32:38

I don't know bud, followed

32:41

by a chuckle. That's

32:43

really weird. That is so

32:45

bizarre. Now, you

32:47

know, a young kid probably

32:50

in shock asking questions.

32:52

Is that abnormal?

32:55

No, kids ask a lot of

32:57

questions in all kinds of different

33:00

circumstances. The are you

33:02

going to remarry question is

33:04

a little strange, but the response

33:07

is even more strange. You know, I don't know

33:09

is the right answer, but

33:12

who's chuckling, laughing

33:15

during the 911 call after

33:17

they have found their wife

33:19

dead? Yes. So strange.

33:21

And I don't even know if I

33:23

would answer. I don't know. I think that moment

33:25

you're just like, no, you know, it means like

33:28

my wife is here leading,

33:30

dying. I'm not even have the

33:33

mindset to answer that question. Officers

33:35

entered the primary bedroom and found

33:37

Amy face up on the floor.

33:40

Her body was still warm. Her

33:42

pants were unbuttoned and unzipped and

33:44

her hands were at her side. A handgun

33:47

lay on her left forearm. Amy

33:49

had a gunshot wound to the right side of her

33:51

head and I'm no expert,

33:54

but, and I'm sure it's

33:56

something that, you know, we'll talk about later

33:58

on. But it did seem

34:01

strange to me, it jumped out, that

34:03

if she shot herself in the

34:05

right side of her head, the gun would

34:07

end up on her left forearm. Now

34:10

could it fall down and tumble that way?

34:12

Yes, I get it, it could happen. But

34:15

there was something in the back of my

34:17

mind that just thought, well that's a little

34:19

strange. According to the

34:21

Twin Cities Pioneer Press, there were no

34:23

powder burns on her head, which

34:26

suggested the gun wasn't against her head

34:28

when it was fired. There

34:31

was also no blood spatter or

34:33

gunpowder on her hands. And

34:35

all of those things, to me,

34:38

are really bad signs pointing

34:41

away from Amy Allwine

34:44

shooting herself. You

34:46

know, how do you have no gunpowder,

34:49

no blood spatter on your hands? And

34:52

we've talked about it in many episodes,

34:54

right? The powder burns, kind

34:56

of denoting a contact wound.

34:59

Well, how many people would

35:02

shoot themselves in the head holding

35:05

the gun at full

35:08

arm's length reach? Very

35:11

unlikely. Very unlikely. Captain

35:13

Randy McAllister noticed the smell of a

35:15

pumpkin, roasting in the oven when he

35:17

entered the house. He thought this

35:20

was strange and questioned why

35:22

Amy would start roasting a pumpkin

35:24

before shooting herself. And those

35:27

are questions that we've asked before.

35:29

There are things in

35:32

certain stories where it's

35:34

debated whether someone

35:37

took their life or someone

35:40

murdered them. And they

35:42

did kind of all of these different

35:44

things before they died. And

35:46

some of it did seem strange.

35:49

Doing the laundry, folding the laundry,

35:52

cooking dinner, or whatever it is, if this plan was in

35:59

your head. It was also noted that

36:01

it was on that the pistol was in

36:03

the crook of Amy's left arm, she

36:06

was right hand. And it

36:08

goes back to that thought that I had. If

36:10

you did that test a hundred times,

36:13

my thought is the majority

36:15

of the time that guns going to

36:18

end up on the right side. Yeah,

36:21

I completely agree. It's going

36:23

to be more rare for that to happen. I

36:25

would think so. Now we're not forensic experts, but

36:27

that just seems like, you know, common sense to

36:29

me, Captain McAllister noted satellite

36:32

blood drips that were outside

36:34

the pool of blood in

36:36

the bedroom. This meant that

36:38

at some point Amy's

36:40

head was suspended above the blood

36:42

drops. This suggested someone

36:44

might've moved her to the bedroom

36:46

where she was found. And you

36:49

know, all of this stuff is fascinating to

36:51

me when you get into

36:53

some of the forensic type

36:55

stuff. And what it can

36:58

tell investigate. And

37:00

I just think Gibbs, that there are a

37:02

lot of people out there

37:04

committing crimes that don't

37:06

have an understanding of

37:08

this type of stuff, and

37:11

they think that they can

37:13

get away with something and that

37:15

all of these different types

37:18

of forensic evidence is not going to prove

37:20

them wrong. Yeah, for sure. There's people out

37:22

there that think they're smarter than the system.

37:24

Yeah. Well, and there's a lot of people

37:26

that don't watch the CSIs

37:28

and those types of shows or

37:31

listen to podcasts or whatever it is.

37:35

Steven agreed to go to the station for

37:37

questioning. He said he last saw Amy at

37:39

5 29 when he left

37:41

to go pick up their son. The police

37:43

noticed that Steven was called despite

37:46

the fact that he just found his

37:48

wife's body. His tears

37:50

seemed fake. Additionally, he had

37:52

gunshot residue on his right

37:54

hand. And to me, that's

37:57

never good. If there were two people

37:59

in. the house. One

38:01

of them has gunshot residue on

38:04

their hand and the other one doesn't.

38:07

Pretty hard to think that the one that doesn't was

38:09

the one that pulled the trigger. It's almost

38:11

like a telltale sign. Is

38:14

that similar to a telltale sign?

38:17

Very close to it. But it's more

38:19

direct and less believable because

38:21

it's a tall tale. I

38:24

think the problem that the police had though was

38:26

that there really was no obvious

38:28

motive for Steven to kill Amy.

38:31

Steven and Amy's son Joseph was

38:33

questioned. He said his mom wasn't

38:35

feeling well so his dad took

38:37

her to a clinic. They

38:39

went to a restaurant after his dad

38:41

picked him up from his grandparents house

38:43

when they got home. He saw his

38:45

mom on the floor and asked why

38:47

she was asleep. Steven told him

38:50

she's probably dead and called 911. Yeah,

38:53

she's probably dead. Can you imagine saying that to

38:55

your son? Well, I don't know how

38:58

he said it. Now granted,

39:00

she was laying in a pool of blood. Sure. So

39:03

I think that assessment

39:06

would have been correct.

39:09

But it's a strange thing I think to say

39:11

to your son. I think so too. I think

39:13

you'd try to shelter. Shield

39:16

him at that point. Yeah. Scientists

39:18

from the Minnesota Bureau of

39:21

Criminal Apprehension arrived at the

39:23

Allwine residence to analyze the

39:25

crime scene. Investigators sprayed

39:27

luminol and found bloody footprints

39:29

going back and forth to

39:31

the mud room and the

39:33

bathroom on the main floor.

39:35

The footprints also went

39:38

into Joseph's bedroom. It

39:40

appeared that there had been some

39:42

type of cleanup. I almost kind

39:44

of wish that they had like

39:47

CCTV or whatever up when

39:49

they're doing their investigation and

39:51

put the potential suspect in a room,

39:54

let them see all this happening. It'd

39:56

be like, oh shit, I didn't know that.

40:00

know they could do that. Yeah, they got me.

40:02

I better go ahead and confess. Forensic

40:04

experts and the medical examiner

40:06

concluded that Amy's position on

40:08

the floor and the

40:11

blood patterns on her face

40:13

were inconsistent with suicide. And

40:15

I think, yeah, there seemed to be a

40:17

lot of things that pointed

40:19

to the fact that she did not end

40:22

her life. When the police

40:24

checked the couple's security system, they saw

40:26

that the cameras did not record anyone

40:28

coming or going from the house during

40:31

the relevant timeframe, besides Steven

40:33

and the police. There's a

40:36

big problem. Well, I think at

40:38

the very least it rules out anyone

40:40

else coming in, right? And

40:43

killing Amy. Amy's

40:45

autopsy was performed on November 14th.

40:49

The medical examiner agreed that Amy died

40:51

around 3.15 PM

40:54

or earlier on November 13th. The

40:57

evidence was more consistent with

40:59

homicide than suicide. Amy

41:02

had what was described as

41:04

an enormous amount of

41:07

scopolamine in her

41:09

system about 45

41:11

times higher concentration

41:13

than a therapeutic dose.

41:16

And this is not, you know, a medication

41:18

that I was familiar with. I had to look it

41:20

up. Scopolamine, if I'm even

41:22

saying it correctly, is an

41:25

anti nausea drug that can have

41:27

some pretty serious side effects. According

41:30

to the criminal complaint, scopolamine

41:32

is known to erase a

41:34

person's memory, rendering them

41:37

incapable of exercising their

41:39

free will. The drug is made

41:41

into an odorless and tasteless powder

41:44

that quickly dissolves in liquids and

41:46

is commonly put into drinks or

41:49

sprinkled on food. It's like

41:51

something you need to be really careful taking. Yeah.

41:53

I mean, obviously in prescribed

41:56

doses or over the counter doses,

41:58

I don't know. how this thing

42:01

is sold, but in whatever

42:03

dose you're supposed to take it, I'm

42:06

sure it works to, you know,

42:08

stave off nausea. But

42:11

if you take 45 times more than

42:13

you're supposed to, or you're

42:15

given 45 times

42:18

more than you're supposed to take, it

42:21

can apparently erase a person's memory.

42:23

Wow. So what does that

42:25

make you think? Could someone have

42:27

been trying to get Amy to shoot

42:30

herself in the head while she was

42:35

on the effects of this

42:37

drug? Maybe it didn't work exactly

42:39

the way they thought it would, but

42:41

I can see, you know, a

42:44

theory where that was someone's

42:47

attempt. And it sounds like

42:49

the drug pretty much and keeps

42:51

you from doing anything. Like

42:54

you lose your ability to fight back

42:56

if you lose your free will. Investigators

43:00

found Steven's computer equipment in

43:02

his basement office. Over

43:04

60 devices were seized and

43:06

taken to a computer forensic

43:08

expert. Okay. My first question is who

43:11

in the hell has 60 different devices?

43:14

That's a lot. I feel like I have a

43:16

lot of electronics. I'm kind

43:18

of a, an electronics person, right?

43:20

I don't think I have 60 different devices.

43:24

Quickly you can look around here and probably come

43:26

up with 20. Yeah. You know, but

43:29

I don't know what's behind that door because

43:32

you never allow me to go through that door.

43:34

Nobody's allowed through that door. But it

43:36

sounds like there's something back there cause I hear

43:38

a lot of that, you know, that low hum

43:40

noise, like, yeah, yeah. And there's

43:42

like, I mean, you can see, you can't

43:45

deny it. There is like a strange

43:47

light coming underneath the door crack.

43:50

That's all you need to know. Investigators

43:54

discovered that Steven was

43:56

visiting a website called

43:58

Ashley Madison. Ashley Madison

44:00

is a site for married people looking

44:02

to have affairs. It made

44:05

headlines in 2015 after

44:07

the client list was leaked, which exposed

44:09

the names of rich and powerful people

44:11

in the U S when you ate,

44:14

if your real name and

44:16

the world world was Ashley Madison, like

44:19

everywhere you go, people go like, Hey,

44:21

are you that Ashley calling you

44:23

a home wrecker? That's right. According

44:26

to prosecutor Jamie cruiser,

44:29

Steven dated at least three women via

44:31

the internet, the relationships range

44:34

from one date to

44:36

a prolonged sexual relationship

44:39

and let's, you know, keep in mind

44:41

he's married during this period of time

44:44

and he was a church

44:46

elder exactly, not supposed to

44:48

commit adultery or

44:50

anything like that. Not

44:53

that anybody is, but I think

44:55

what this showed to investigators

44:57

was that Steven no longer wanted

45:00

to be married to Amy and

45:02

provided them a potential motive for murder.

45:05

Pretty good motive. Captain Randy

45:07

Macalester said Steven was not an

45:10

official suspect until December 12th, 2016.

45:14

In March, 2016, Steven filed

45:16

the police report claiming

45:19

that someone stole $6,000 worth

45:22

of Bitcoin from him. Investigators

45:24

found a 34 digit

45:26

Bitcoin wallet code on Steven's

45:29

computer. This same code was

45:31

used by dog day God to pay

45:33

for Amy's murder on the dark web.

45:36

Okay. That seems like some pretty good

45:38

evidence to me. Pretty rock solid

45:40

to me tying Steven to the

45:42

murder. And it

45:45

really did effectively prove that

45:47

Steven was dog day God

45:50

upon further inspection of Steven's

45:53

dark web internet activity,

45:55

investigators learn that dog

45:57

day God purchase scapula.

46:00

Polymy on the dark web

46:02

right also very damning, you know For

46:05

the dark web thing to work kind

46:08

of needs to be anonymous. Yeah. Yeah,

46:10

you can't File police

46:13

report on the Bitcoin that you

46:15

got beat out of because

46:17

it defeats the purpose. Well, didn't we say earlier?

46:20

What kind of numb nuts is going

46:22

to engage in criminal activity and

46:25

then? You know file

46:27

a report. I think we found that in I'm

46:29

nuts once they get scammed out of $6,000

46:32

or whatever it is worth of Bitcoin and

46:35

why would you keep your little Bitcoin code

46:37

where somebody could find it? down

46:39

the road why even keep the Computer,

46:43

you know device that you use. Yeah,

46:46

you know, it's hard to Explain

46:50

right why some people do the

46:52

things they do or don't do some

46:54

of the things That you think they would do

46:57

a lot of the times. I just

46:59

think it's because They believe

47:01

in their minds. They're smart

47:03

enough to get away with this So

47:06

there's no reason to get rid of anything

47:08

because the police are gonna believe me. They're not

47:10

going to come and seize all of my

47:13

Electronics, they're not going to search it Prosecutors

47:17

theorize that Steven was frustrated after

47:19

waiting nine months for Amy to

47:21

be killed So he drugged

47:23

her and then shot her with

47:26

the gun that was supposed to be used

47:28

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48:49

Allwine was arrested and charged with

48:51

second degree murder on January 17,

48:53

2017. I

48:57

think the prosecution's theory is a

48:59

pretty good one. You know, with

49:01

everything that we've kind of laid out, he

49:04

tried to get someone to kill his wife. It

49:06

didn't happen. It sounds

49:08

to me like they effectively

49:10

stole his $6,000, right? Didn't

49:15

find someone to murder his wife.

49:18

Nine months goes by and he

49:21

says, I guess I'm going to have to

49:23

do it myself. Yeah. And

49:26

he comes up with this, what really is

49:28

kind of a ham handed

49:30

story, um, set up. Turns

49:34

out to be. Yeah. Like he

49:36

didn't really think it all the way through, but I don't, uh,

49:39

I don't like the fact that, uh, you know,

49:41

they, uh, charge him with second degree.

49:43

I feel like he should have got, uh,

49:45

charged with first degree. Yeah. I

49:48

mean, it did seem strange. He

49:50

was released after posting his half

49:52

a million dollar bail, but was

49:54

arrested again after he tried to

49:56

contact his son and track him

49:58

with a smartwatch. stevens

50:00

charge was upgraded to first-degree

50:02

murder after grand jury indicted

50:04

him in march two thousand

50:06

and seventeen i know we're

50:08

on track and that does make sense stevens

50:11

defense attorney kevin before argued

50:14

that investigators had tunnel vision

50:17

and ignored other possibilities the

50:19

board hold forty eight hours they

50:22

would ask yours to believe the

50:24

device named s all wind iphone

50:27

which uploaded in creating evidence

50:29

to stevens computer was

50:32

not actually stevens i thought divorce

50:34

said there were women in a

50:37

means why that had access to

50:39

her home internet including her friend

50:41

and colleagues who was a woman

50:44

or someone claiming to be a woman who

50:47

tried to get a me to kill herself

50:49

before she was murdered the woman

50:51

was angry with a me for allegedly

50:53

having an affair with her so

50:56

this all goes back to you know

50:58

what we talked about it does

51:01

seem like there either

51:03

was really someone angry with

51:06

a me woman or someone

51:10

was pretending to

51:12

be a woman to throw police

51:14

off the trail however

51:16

the police found no evidence that

51:18

amy was having an affair but

51:21

they easily found out that

51:23

he was having at least three affairs yeah

51:25

and so i think the kind

51:27

of lead you in a

51:29

certain direction right on the team if

51:32

they can find a single shred

51:34

of evidence of her having

51:36

an affair pretty hard to

51:38

believe that there's a woman out there who's

51:40

angry with her sending her

51:42

emails telling her to kill herself

51:45

opening statements and stevens murder trial

51:48

began on january twenty third two

51:50

thousand eighteen prosecutors argued

51:52

that stevens didn't want

51:54

to divorce amy because he would

51:56

lose his standing within the church

51:59

stevens was also the beneficiary to

52:01

Amy's $700,000 life insurance policy. Pretty

52:07

healthy. Yeah, that is a healthy amount.

52:10

When you talk about motive

52:12

for murder, how often does

52:14

it come down to money or

52:17

not wanting to get

52:20

a divorce for a number of

52:22

reasons, one of which can also

52:24

be giving up your money. Right. Here

52:27

you have the church kind of

52:29

intertwined. He doesn't want

52:31

this to come out. Yeah,

52:33

he wants to protect his reputation

52:35

and profit off of her

52:38

murder. Prosecutor Jamie Kruiser

52:40

told the jury that Steven

52:42

learned about the Ashley Madison

52:45

website through his position as

52:47

a marriage counselor. Investigators

52:50

identified at least two women Steven met

52:52

through the site. The defense

52:54

argued that the timeline leading up to

52:56

Amy's death would have made it impossible

52:58

for Steven to be the killer. They

53:01

did acknowledge Steven's affairs, but

53:03

argued that his infidelity didn't

53:06

mean he killed Amy. Well,

53:09

yeah, you can make that statement, right? People

53:11

can have affairs, doesn't mean they're going to be

53:14

a killer. No, that's a true

53:16

statement. It doesn't mean

53:19

that he killed Amy. Could

53:21

it be a factor in determining that he

53:23

did? Yeah. Yeah, you sprinkle all

53:25

the other stuff along with it, it kind of changes that. But

53:28

I think that's true with a lot of things. If

53:31

you just take one thing in

53:33

a vacuum, it might not

53:36

mean all that much, but

53:38

combined with all the other

53:40

evidence, it does

53:42

a lot of times form

53:44

a pretty convincing picture. The

53:48

defense questioned the credibility of

53:50

the computer analyst who examined

53:52

Steven's devices and claimed the

53:54

investigation of the house was

53:56

contaminated. I mean,

53:58

I haven't said it yet. to me, it kind

54:01

of felt like going into it, right? The

54:03

defense was up against it. Yeah.

54:06

I think their back was up against that

54:08

wall. Yeah. They, they were going to have

54:10

a tough time, but they were going to

54:12

have to try a lot of different things.

54:15

They were going to have to try

54:17

to attack the evidence,

54:20

the investigation, all of that,

54:23

at least three neighbors claimed they saw

54:25

Amy outside the home on

54:27

the night of her death, neighbors also

54:30

heard two vehicles racing out of

54:32

the neighborhood around the same time.

54:34

According to the defense authorities

54:36

also failed to follow up on

54:38

an unknown user who remotely

54:40

access Steven's computer the

54:43

day of Amy's death. That's the way to

54:45

put some doubt out there, right? Right.

54:48

Who are these people racing out of

54:50

the neighborhood? What was this

54:53

person doing if they

54:55

access Steven's computer remotely? You

54:58

know, could they have been dog

55:01

day? Got. Do you remember what

55:03

I used to remote into your computer? Did

55:05

you not know that? I did not know that.

55:08

Oh, just move on. Sorry. On

55:10

January 26th, 2018, the United church of God issued a

55:12

statement about Steven's trial.

55:17

The church said that media

55:19

outlets had published inaccurate comments.

55:22

Part of the statement read, here are

55:24

the facts about the United church of God

55:26

and its beliefs. We highly value

55:28

scripture and regard the Bible as

55:31

the authoritative word of God. In

55:34

respect to marriage, the

55:36

church positively teaches it

55:38

involves a lifelong commitment

55:40

of mutual love, respect,

55:42

and selfless service. Marriage

55:44

is a holy covenant that reflects

55:47

our relationship with Jesus Christ. The

55:49

church also strongly follows the biblical

55:52

command that murder, even the mere

55:54

thought of murder is

55:56

condemned to sin and can

55:58

never be justified. Unlike what

56:01

some may have insinuated, our ministers

56:03

are called to be humble servants,

56:05

as stated in the New Testament.

56:08

These pastors must be men of

56:10

blameless lives, because they are

56:12

God's ministers. They must not

56:14

be proud or impatient. They must

56:17

not be drunkards or fighters or

56:19

greedy for money. So it

56:21

sounds to me like the church

56:24

was maybe being cast

56:26

in a bad light, as

56:28

though it was this stance against

56:30

divorce that had caused Stephen

56:33

Allwine to kill his wife. And

56:35

they were kind of, I guess,

56:39

trying to defend themselves in

56:41

a way. Yes, saying, it's not really

56:43

true. Here's where our stance is. This

56:45

is what we mean. And we obviously

56:47

don't believe in murder. The

56:49

state called on the computer

56:51

forensic expert who examined 66

56:53

devices seized

56:56

from the Allwine residence, including

56:59

a MacBook Pro with the

57:01

username S. Allwine and

57:03

an iPhone 6s named S.

57:06

Allwine's phone. The computer

57:08

forensic expert testified that

57:11

user S. Allwine downloaded

57:13

Tor, a web browser

57:15

that people use to access the dark

57:17

web, on the MacBook Pro

57:19

seized from the house. He found the

57:21

note on the computer with

57:24

the email address sharklasers.com.

57:27

This allows users to send

57:29

anonymous emails. I did

57:31

not know that. I'm assuming you did. I

57:33

did. But that is not me

57:36

that sends you those certain emails.

57:38

Well, somebody needs to stop doing it. User

57:41

S. Allwine composed an anonymous

57:43

email on the MacBook Pro.

57:46

And I think some of this testimony really

57:49

kind of gets to the heart

57:51

of the matter. Who was using

57:53

that computer to access the dark

57:55

web? Because that's where

57:58

the hit lies. ordered. Right.

58:01

Who sent anonymous emails?

58:04

Because we know Amy received

58:06

anonymous emails instructing her to

58:09

end her life. Telling her,

58:11

threatening her. It's not looking good for

58:13

him. It's really not. The

58:15

user dogdaygod first used the

58:17

dark web to contact Besa

58:19

Mafia on February 14th 2016.

58:21

On February 15th, Stephen used his

58:27

MacBook Pro to search Amy's

58:30

itinerary for the dog training

58:32

convention in Moline, Illinois. He

58:34

also did a search for

58:36

the distance between Chicago and

58:39

Moline. Two minutes later, Dogdaygod

58:41

messaged Besa Mafia per

58:44

Fox 9. The

58:46

target will be traveling out of town to Moline,

58:49

about a three-hour drive from Chicago.

58:51

What is the price in Bitcoin for

58:53

hit and ideally making it

58:56

look like an accident? And

58:58

to me, you know, this is kind of fascinating because,

59:00

you know, if you just look

59:02

at someone looking up

59:05

his wife's itinerary and

59:07

how far away it is, that

59:10

doesn't mean anything to me. No,

59:13

you're thinking, well, I just wanted to see

59:15

how far away from Chicago, one of the major

59:17

cities that she was going to be from. Yeah.

59:19

And well, you know, what is she doing that day? What

59:22

does she have going on? But

59:24

when that activity

59:27

is immediately

59:29

followed by messaging

59:32

the hitman or the hitman arranger

59:35

and giving that information to them.

59:38

Well, obviously then it puts it in a

59:40

much different light. On March

59:42

5th, user S. Olwine used the

59:44

MacBook Pro to view Amy's Facebook

59:46

and browse her photos. And

59:49

it was the very next day that

59:51

Dogdaygod sent a picture of Amy to

59:54

Besa Mafia. This occurred

59:56

moments after Steven downloaded the picture

59:58

from his home. So

1:00:01

again, with the technology, they're able to kind

1:00:03

of see when all of this stuff happened.

1:00:05

And it looks very bad. It

1:00:08

does. For Stephen Allwine. Basa

1:00:11

Mafia told Dog Day God how to

1:00:13

purchase Bitcoin and how he could cover

1:00:16

his tracks by reporting it stolen. A

1:00:20

few days later, Stephen purchased Bitcoin

1:00:22

and reported it stolen. So, you

1:00:25

know, when you look at all of

1:00:28

the things that Stephen did, and

1:00:30

then all of the things that Dog

1:00:33

Day God did, pretty

1:00:35

hard not to believe

1:00:38

that Dog Day God is Stephen

1:00:40

Allwine. Yeah, I mean,

1:00:42

if you look at it, you know,

1:00:45

it looks like it's him, smells like

1:00:47

it's him. Yeah, it's

1:00:49

him. According to Fox 9,

1:00:52

he purchased 15.5 Bitcoins worth more

1:00:54

than $6,000. What

1:01:00

I found amazing was that

1:01:02

they said in that same article that it would be

1:01:04

worth about $870,000 today. I

1:01:09

think more like $920,000, but, you

1:01:11

know, we'll go with that. Who

1:01:14

are they versus who I am? And

1:01:16

I don't know exactly. I can't remember

1:01:18

when that article was written. So you

1:01:20

could be right today, but yeah,

1:01:22

that Bitcoin, I should have got in on that. A

1:01:26

lot of people wish they got in on it. And there's

1:01:28

a lot of people wish that they got out on it,

1:01:30

you know, got out on it at the right time. Yeah,

1:01:32

it's gone up and down, right? Throughout the years. We

1:01:35

talked about this Bitcoin wallet, which

1:01:37

I think is an important piece of

1:01:40

the puzzle because it's what

1:01:42

helps to allow some

1:01:44

of these transactions to be untraceable.

1:01:47

You know, Stephen's Bitcoin wallet had a

1:01:49

unique 34 digit character

1:01:51

code. That's a lot of

1:01:54

characters. That is a lot of characters. On

1:01:57

March 22nd, Stephen copied the

1:01:59

code. to the notes

1:02:01

app on his iPhone. 23

1:02:03

seconds later, Dog Day God

1:02:06

sent the same code to base a

1:02:08

mafia to pay for the hit.

1:02:10

Again, all of these things, they

1:02:13

are just tying Stephen

1:02:15

Alwine and Dog

1:02:17

Day God together as

1:02:20

being the same person. Not

1:02:22

that smart of a guy. 40 seconds

1:02:25

later, the note was deleted

1:02:27

from Stephen's iPhone. The

1:02:29

deleted note though was copied to

1:02:31

iCloud and was backed up onto

1:02:33

a new iPhone 6 on

1:02:36

May 27. Yeah, you know

1:02:38

what it's hard to get rid of?

1:02:40

The cloud. Yeah. I always like to

1:02:43

write things on a piece of paper and then

1:02:45

burn it or eat it. Okay.

1:02:48

Eating it seems a little extreme, but I

1:02:50

gotcha. It's fiber. But we're gonna see

1:02:52

more and more of this, right?

1:02:54

With all of this technology,

1:02:56

the cloud and everything kind

1:02:59

of auto syncing, backing up.

1:03:01

A lot of people may not realize that what

1:03:04

they thought they deleted or what they thought they

1:03:07

got rid of is actually out

1:03:09

there sitting on the cloud somewhere. Yeah,

1:03:11

a lot of that electronic stuff leaves

1:03:13

some type of footprint, you know?

1:03:15

Unless you're very, very smart and

1:03:18

know how to clean it out, which

1:03:20

most people won't know how to do, you're

1:03:23

gonna be screwed.

1:03:25

Or you could just not do anything

1:03:28

bad. Well, that would be

1:03:30

the awesome thing, right? Just don't

1:03:32

do anything. Don't murder anyone. Don't

1:03:34

commit any types of sexual

1:03:37

crimes. Don't hurt anyone.

1:03:40

Just don't break the law. No. And then you

1:03:42

don't have to worry about what's on your computer.

1:03:44

You know, if you want to break the law,

1:03:46

do this. Go to your mattress

1:03:48

and rip those tags off. Okay. You know,

1:03:51

I got you, but I didn't endorse that.

1:03:53

Or walk across the street right in the

1:03:55

middle. Don't even go to the

1:03:57

crosswalk. That's right. Go ahead and jay walk.

1:04:00

We're not advocating that either. No. Moonwalk?

1:04:03

I'm down with. How about

1:04:05

you moonwalk across the crosswalk? I can

1:04:07

do that. Totally legal. According

1:04:10

to the Twin Cities Pioneer Press,

1:04:12

Stevens searched for the names of

1:04:14

Amy's family members on his computer.

1:04:17

In July 2016, Amy

1:04:19

received anonymous emails threatening to

1:04:22

harm her family. I think

1:04:24

he didn't know what their names were. Yeah,

1:04:26

I thought that was a little strange. I don't

1:04:28

know how far he had to branch out. On

1:04:31

August 3rd, Stevens iPhone was backed

1:04:33

up to his MacBook Pro. The

1:04:36

backup included the Bitcoin wallet

1:04:38

code. An officer in

1:04:41

the medical examiner testified that

1:04:43

the evidence at the Allwine

1:04:45

residence was not consistent with

1:04:47

suicide. And I don't know how, you

1:04:50

know, just from the rudimentary

1:04:52

knowledge that you and I have,

1:04:55

it was pretty clear to see that

1:04:58

it didn't appear to be suicide

1:05:00

at all. No, especially knowing

1:05:03

that he had GSR on his

1:05:05

hand. And she didn't. No

1:05:07

contact wound. On

1:05:09

January 31st, 2018, Stephen

1:05:12

Allwine was found guilty

1:05:14

of first-degree murder. Stephen

1:05:17

was sentenced to life in prison without the

1:05:19

possibility of parole. On January 31st, 2018, Stephen

1:05:22

Allwine was found guilty

1:05:25

of first-degree murder. Stephen

1:05:27

was sentenced to life in prison without

1:05:29

the possibility of parole on

1:05:31

February 2nd, So

1:05:35

we didn't go into all

1:05:37

that much detail when

1:05:39

it comes to the trial, but I didn't

1:05:41

feel like we really needed to. We hit

1:05:43

the highlights of the evidence

1:05:45

against him. It doesn't seem

1:05:48

to me, Gibbs, that it would

1:05:50

have been that difficult for a jury

1:05:52

to put this together. It kind of seemed like

1:05:54

a slam dunk. Stephen spoke

1:05:56

in court and said he had always

1:05:59

loved Amy. me and didn't kill

1:06:01

her. He said per Fox nine, I've

1:06:04

never asked for anything except to

1:06:06

work for God. He continued. I

1:06:08

never went to sleep. I never

1:06:11

woke up without kissing her. The

1:06:13

grief of losing her is tremendous.

1:06:15

No one ever talked bad

1:06:17

about our relationship. Kind

1:06:20

of makes me sick. And you know,

1:06:22

there might even be some truth in

1:06:24

that statement, but to me

1:06:26

at a certain point, he felt differently.

1:06:29

He started having the affairs and

1:06:32

then obviously he started

1:06:34

having thoughts about wanting

1:06:37

her debt because instead of

1:06:39

asking for divorce that he

1:06:41

knew the church would not approve

1:06:44

because he wanted to keep his reputation there,

1:06:47

keep his money, keep his money, get

1:06:49

her money, get her money. He chose

1:06:51

to go out to the dark web

1:06:53

and orchestrate this murder

1:06:56

for hire. And when that didn't

1:06:58

happen, he chose to do it himself. He

1:07:00

told the judge how he had been doing

1:07:03

Bible study at the county jail. He

1:07:05

met people addicted to drugs, child

1:07:07

molesters, and kidnappers. He added, I'm

1:07:10

going to take my Bible to St.

1:07:12

Cloud prison and see what happened.

1:07:15

Okay. Good on you. Yeah.

1:07:17

Where's all this goodness? Right.

1:07:20

When it really counted, you know. The judge

1:07:22

told Steven, you are an

1:07:24

incredible actor, a hypocrite and

1:07:26

a cold and calculating killer.

1:07:28

Love that. Yeah. I mean,

1:07:31

just lay it out there. You know,

1:07:33

here's a judge and I think a lot of them

1:07:35

are like this. They're not pulling

1:07:37

any punches. They're telling it like it

1:07:39

is because I think they hear so

1:07:42

much BS, right? From people,

1:07:44

you know, here's Steven talking about

1:07:46

doing Bible study, counseling,

1:07:50

people addicted to drugs and child

1:07:52

molesters. Okay. Maybe you are, but

1:07:55

it doesn't change any of what you

1:07:57

did. No, you need some counseling yourself.

1:08:01

The United Church of God also issued

1:08:03

a statement after the sentencing, part

1:08:05

of which was published by Fox

1:08:07

not the church said, because of

1:08:09

the sensational nature of the facts

1:08:11

surrounding the case, a

1:08:13

considerable number of international and national

1:08:16

media outlets covered the events leading

1:08:18

up to and including the trial.

1:08:21

It is our fervent hope that all

1:08:23

will continue to pray to our

1:08:25

merciful father about the entire situation

1:08:28

and be compassionate about what the

1:08:30

extended families are going through. Here

1:08:33

is an important point. While we

1:08:35

certainly respect the verdict at

1:08:38

the same time, we personally are

1:08:40

not to sit in judgment.

1:08:42

We can have confidence that

1:08:45

our all-knowing God is aware

1:08:47

of all aspects regarding this

1:08:49

tragic situation. As a

1:08:51

result, we will not be making

1:08:53

speculative comments about the verdict. Well,

1:08:56

that's there for event right. Yeah, and I don't

1:08:58

even know what that means. The

1:09:01

speculative comments about

1:09:03

the verdict, they're not going

1:09:05

to speculate, I guess, about

1:09:07

whether the verdict was correct

1:09:10

or not correct or not. The

1:09:12

verdict. I'm not sure. Stephen

1:09:14

filed an appeal with the Minnesota Supreme

1:09:16

Court in May 2018 in late September

1:09:21

while the appeal was pending. GBS

1:09:23

aired an episode of 48 Hours

1:09:26

titled Click for a Killer, Part

1:09:28

1. This episode featured

1:09:30

the Allwine case and

1:09:33

included interviews with lawyers and law

1:09:35

enforcement who were involved. 48

1:09:37

Hours conducted a six-month investigation

1:09:40

and discovered murder plots that had already

1:09:42

been paid for but were not carried

1:09:45

out. They identified

1:09:47

an individual who identified

1:09:49

himself as Jura who claimed

1:09:51

he is the man behind

1:09:53

the international murder empire

1:09:56

called Besa Mafia.

1:09:59

CVS obtained clips from Yura's

1:10:01

video diary where he said, a

1:10:03

hit man marketplace is like any

1:10:06

other auction site. It

1:10:08

brings customers and vendors together.

1:10:10

Any hit man is welcome to sign

1:10:12

up, but not all will be accepted.

1:10:15

Basically his website invited

1:10:18

potential killers to send

1:10:20

him audition tapes. I

1:10:22

wonder what that's like. Hey,

1:10:25

I'm John and I've got

1:10:27

some certain level skills.

1:10:30

And I think I could be a valuable

1:10:32

asset to your, uh, company.

1:10:35

I don't know. I think they probably

1:10:37

be pretty strange videos. Well, my

1:10:40

thought was an audition tape

1:10:42

would include some

1:10:44

type of criminal act.

1:10:47

Yeah. Here's my last three

1:10:49

hits. I don't

1:10:51

even know. Yura said in a

1:10:53

video diary, if one searches

1:10:55

online for, I quote, shot dead

1:10:58

on street, one will find plenty

1:11:00

of news about people being shot

1:11:02

dead in the street by unknown

1:11:04

people that shoot and leave the site. Those

1:11:07

are our hit men. We will be

1:11:09

waiting for you to come place your orders and

1:11:12

get rid of your problems. It's almost

1:11:14

like he's really trying to hype this thing

1:11:16

up to get more customers. Yeah. 48

1:11:19

hours spoke to Eileen Ormsby and

1:11:22

Australian writer and CBS consultant who

1:11:24

learned about Amy's case while researching

1:11:26

for a book about the dark

1:11:29

web. Eileen found

1:11:31

Chris Montero and it

1:11:33

specialist and what is

1:11:35

referred to as a white hat hacker

1:11:38

who also discovered VESA

1:11:40

mafia. And I kind of mentioned

1:11:43

this before, right? Not all hackers are bad.

1:11:45

A white hat hacker is also

1:11:47

called an ethical hacker. They use

1:11:50

their skills to identify security

1:11:52

vulnerabilities. When they are legally

1:11:54

allowed to do so. Chris

1:11:57

Montero has been writing about dark

1:11:59

web murder. for a higher site since 2015. He

1:12:03

told CBS that many of the sites

1:12:05

are scams to steal money. In

1:12:08

2016, he noticed that someone edited one

1:12:10

of his posts about the

1:12:13

BESA Mafia site, insisting

1:12:15

it was legit. Okay, well

1:12:17

let's face it, a lot of things

1:12:20

are in fact scams intended

1:12:23

to steal money. You

1:12:25

know, especially when you're dealing with the internet. It

1:12:27

doesn't even have to be the dark web. I

1:12:30

mean, how many people get phone calls from

1:12:33

allegedly Amazon customer support?

1:12:36

Oh yeah. I got

1:12:38

one earlier today. I

1:12:40

couldn't hang up fast enough. I get calls,

1:12:42

I get text messages that I

1:12:44

don't even know who they're from. Montero got

1:12:47

into an online argument with Yura

1:12:49

from BESA Mafia. One day he

1:12:51

received a video from Yura that

1:12:53

showed a person holding a piece

1:12:55

of paper with his domain name

1:12:57

written on it, standing in

1:12:59

front of a burning car. Okay,

1:13:02

a little intimidation. Yeah. He

1:13:04

continued receiving threats in the following weeks.

1:13:07

Montero decided that he wanted to take

1:13:09

this guy down, but Yura's

1:13:11

sites were encrypted and he

1:13:14

regularly changed website names. Now,

1:13:17

it's one thing to intimidate

1:13:20

someone on the web. Right?

1:13:23

That happens. We know it

1:13:25

happens. We know who you shouldn't intimidate

1:13:27

or try to intimidate, a very

1:13:30

skilled hacker. You

1:13:33

might be skilled yourself, but you might run

1:13:35

up against someone who's better than you. Montero

1:13:38

developed a special computer code to

1:13:41

hack the BESA Mafia website. This

1:13:43

allowed him to see communications between

1:13:45

Yura and his customers. He told

1:13:47

48 hours, I

1:13:50

discovered there are lots of sick people out

1:13:52

there. And in many cases, being

1:13:55

very graphic about how

1:13:57

they want the person to suffer. It's

1:14:00

really scary. It is a scary thought.

1:14:02

It is. We already know

1:14:04

that there are a lot of people

1:14:06

who have thoughts about killing. There

1:14:08

are a lot of people who kill. We

1:14:10

cover quite a few of them. When

1:14:13

you add this kind of dark

1:14:15

web element to it, it

1:14:18

does change things up a little bit. You're

1:14:20

talking about potentially

1:14:23

anonymous transactions for murder,

1:14:26

and that is a very scary thing.

1:14:29

The Montero found a user

1:14:31

named DogdayGod asking to kill

1:14:33

Amy, all one. He

1:14:36

found messages between DogdayGod and

1:14:38

Yura discussing how, where, and

1:14:40

when the murder would occur.

1:14:43

He was so concerned he reached out to

1:14:45

the FBI. He told

1:14:47

them about the messages trying

1:14:49

to solicit murder, but didn't

1:14:51

mention any specific plots. He

1:14:54

felt like the conversation went nowhere and

1:14:56

he eventually gave up. Disappointing.

1:14:58

Yeah, that would be disappointing when you

1:15:00

have what could be pretty

1:15:03

credible information. Montero

1:15:06

learned about Amy's death in

1:15:08

January 2017 after Steven was arrested. Montero

1:15:13

claimed that Yura tried to frame

1:15:15

him by claiming he was

1:15:17

the one running the hitman sites on

1:15:19

the dark web on February 4, 2017.

1:15:23

The police raided his house and

1:15:25

arrested him for incitement to murder. The

1:15:28

charges were later dropped. So

1:15:31

you have what seems to be two

1:15:33

pretty skilled hackers, both

1:15:35

probably capable of doing some nasty

1:15:37

stuff to the other. It

1:15:39

almost sounds like a future Netflix

1:15:42

movie. Why everything is a

1:15:44

future Netflix movie. That's true.

1:15:47

Including movies that have already been made,

1:15:49

as we discussed about on Patreon. That's

1:15:51

true. And they're running for the lead

1:15:53

role in Urban Cowboy remake. Are

1:15:56

you? Yeah. They're just trying to

1:15:58

find my sissy. the

1:16:00

decision to go much, much older in

1:16:03

this remake. Maybe

1:16:06

it's a sequel. Sequel. Yeah. Whatever

1:16:08

happened to, I don't remember what

1:16:10

his name was in the movie.

1:16:13

Uh, and I can't think of it

1:16:15

either, but, and, and yeah, John Travolta's

1:16:17

character and Sissy. Yeah. So

1:16:20

if they're going to go that route, John Travolta

1:16:22

could just play it. Yeah. Or you

1:16:24

could play it. I didn't think that went through. Yeah.

1:16:28

In a video sent to 48 hours,

1:16:30

Yura said the murder of Amy Allwine

1:16:33

was committed by base of mafia. He

1:16:35

said the base of mafia hit

1:16:37

man visited the Allwine residence

1:16:39

and shot his wife with her

1:16:42

gun and then left the

1:16:44

location driving in a hurry by the

1:16:46

time of Steven's trial in January, 2018. Yura

1:16:50

shut down the site and started

1:16:52

the new one called. Co-sonostra.

1:16:55

How original. Not,

1:16:57

not being too, uh, inventive

1:16:59

with the names 48

1:17:02

hours message Yura on the dark

1:17:04

web. He agreed to an

1:17:06

interview in London, but never showed

1:17:08

up. He believed 48 hours was

1:17:11

being followed by British intelligence. Probably

1:17:13

a pretty good assumption. He sent an

1:17:15

email that said, I do have several

1:17:18

millions to live a nice life and

1:17:20

start several businesses. Why should I risk

1:17:22

being arrested and end up in jail?

1:17:24

Yura did give 48 hours, the names

1:17:27

of murder targets from his sites. 48

1:17:30

hours contacted the police and reached out to

1:17:32

the targets. Their tips led to

1:17:34

four arrests. So, I mean,

1:17:36

I think this is scary from

1:17:39

that standpoint that, all

1:17:41

right, he may have been

1:17:43

scamming people, but that doesn't

1:17:45

mean that there weren't real

1:17:47

people on the other end who

1:17:50

wanted someone dead. Not only

1:17:52

dead, but in a very gruesome

1:17:55

way. Some of them wanted them to

1:17:57

suffer and all that Chris

1:17:59

Montero. And researcher Eileen

1:18:01

Ornsby came to the conclusion

1:18:04

that you're a murderer for higher sites

1:18:06

or scams. You're established a

1:18:08

pattern with potential customers. After

1:18:11

he was paid, the job was

1:18:13

not completed. When people express their

1:18:15

frustration, you're asked for more

1:18:17

money to make the hit happen faster. You

1:18:19

know what you're not going to do

1:18:21

if it doesn't pan out? You're

1:18:24

not going to run to the police and say, I've

1:18:26

been scammed out of $10,000. They

1:18:29

never murdered my wife. Yeah,

1:18:31

you'd never put it that way. Now, Steven

1:18:34

did go to the police and say someone stole

1:18:36

$6,000 in Bitcoin. But

1:18:39

I think even that ended up biting

1:18:42

him in the ass because it, it

1:18:44

kind of. Maybe led

1:18:47

to further investigation into the

1:18:49

Bitcoin, his online activity

1:18:52

and all of that. After

1:18:55

the 48 hours episode aired,

1:18:57

the Minnesota Supreme Court granted

1:18:59

Stevens motion to stay his

1:19:01

direct appeal to allow

1:19:04

him to file for post conviction relief

1:19:06

in district court. Stevens appealed to the

1:19:08

Supreme Court of Minnesota was denied on

1:19:11

August 18th, 2021. In

1:19:14

November of that year, Stevens spoke

1:19:16

to Fox nine and protested his

1:19:18

innocence. He said he was framed

1:19:21

adding, when you look at all the

1:19:23

scientific evidence, when you look at the

1:19:25

hard physical evidence, I couldn't have

1:19:27

done it. If you know me as an individual,

1:19:29

I couldn't have done it. And that sentence

1:19:31

I have to be honest with you made

1:19:34

no sense to me. If you

1:19:36

look at the scientific evidence, if

1:19:38

you look at the hard physical evidence,

1:19:41

I couldn't have done it. If you

1:19:43

know me as an individual, it seems

1:19:45

like those are two different things. Absolutely.

1:19:48

He's saying people who

1:19:50

knew me or know me, they

1:19:52

know that I'm not capable of this. Okay.

1:19:56

I understand that. If you want to make

1:19:58

that statement. But coupling

1:20:01

that with the scientific

1:20:03

evidence, all of

1:20:05

that seems to point to you actually

1:20:07

doing it. Steven said the

1:20:10

killer planted evidence on his devices,

1:20:13

duplicate him in the murder, and

1:20:15

suggested that investigators ignored crime

1:20:18

scene evidence that could

1:20:20

exonerate him. Steven said

1:20:22

he believes he knows who committed the murder

1:20:25

and alleged it was someone Amy was

1:20:27

working with. When asked about the

1:20:29

Bitcoin code on his computer, Steven

1:20:32

said, my supposition, I

1:20:34

don't have evidence to back this up, is

1:20:36

that someone else got it posted to the

1:20:39

cloud. And then the cloud

1:20:41

syncs with my MacBook and brought it

1:20:43

there. He's got an answer for everything.

1:20:46

He does, but I'm

1:20:48

struggling with how to

1:20:50

make sense of the answer. So

1:20:53

he's got this suspicion that it

1:20:56

was someone Amy was working with.

1:20:58

Okay. If that was the

1:21:00

case, what would the motive have been? We

1:21:03

don't know. And

1:21:06

it doesn't mean that coworkers don't kill.

1:21:09

We know that they have. But

1:21:11

the motive for Steven to want to kill

1:21:13

his wife is obvious. It's

1:21:15

out there. I mean, you

1:21:17

can offer up all kinds of

1:21:20

alternate theories. But at

1:21:22

the end of the day, number one, they

1:21:25

have to make sense. And then number two,

1:21:27

you have to have something to support them.

1:21:30

Mark Lanterman, the expert who

1:21:32

analyzed Steven's devices told Fox

1:21:34

nine, in this case,

1:21:36

the evidence was overwhelming. I

1:21:38

would say this is probably the most

1:21:40

compelling case I have ever worked on

1:21:42

in the last 30 years.

1:21:45

That says a lot. Yeah. I mean, how

1:21:47

many cases has this guy worked on in 30 years? But

1:21:50

you know, this is a pretty compelling case

1:21:52

when you think about it, not the

1:21:54

fact that a husband

1:21:56

wants his wife murdered. We've

1:21:59

seen that. Quite a bit. I

1:22:02

don't want to downplay it because it's horrible. Sure. What

1:22:05

was compelling to me about this case

1:22:07

was the dark web,

1:22:09

the trying to hire hit man,

1:22:12

the use of the Bitcoin and

1:22:14

all of that, thinking it was

1:22:16

kind of an untraceable transaction

1:22:19

only to find out

1:22:22

that you're being scammed. You're

1:22:24

not getting a hit man and then making

1:22:27

the decision that you're going

1:22:29

to do it yourself. Lanterman also

1:22:31

noted that there was no

1:22:34

evidence any of Stevens devices

1:22:36

were compromised. Stevens latest

1:22:38

appeal to the Supreme Court of Minnesota

1:22:40

was denied on July 19th, 2023. You

1:22:45

know, as we wrapped this one up, like

1:22:47

I said to me, it was and is

1:22:50

a pretty compelling case. Stephen

1:22:52

Alwine thought that he could get away

1:22:54

with murder because now

1:22:57

he knew a little something about

1:22:59

computers, right? He was an IT

1:23:01

guy probably considered himself an expert.

1:23:04

He did have apparently

1:23:06

some experience navigating the dark

1:23:08

web, but in the end

1:23:10

he used his personal computer to

1:23:13

solicit the murder. This

1:23:15

device contained evidence that proved

1:23:18

he was the one sending messages

1:23:21

requesting the hit. And

1:23:23

when you look at the motive and we've kind

1:23:25

of already talked about it, but you know, he

1:23:27

wanted to have Amy killed because divorcing

1:23:30

her would cause him to lose his

1:23:33

position as church

1:23:35

elder. I also think

1:23:37

that money probably played a big

1:23:39

factor as well. He wanted

1:23:41

out of the marriage. My thought is he's

1:23:43

having all these affairs. Maybe

1:23:46

he met someone with

1:23:48

whom he wanted to be with, right? More

1:23:50

than he wanted to be with Amy. He

1:23:53

knows he can't get a divorce, but

1:23:56

he also doesn't want to give up any of that money. And if

1:23:58

he can get seven. $700,000 on top of it, even better for them.

1:24:03

There's a lot of motive there to

1:24:05

want her debt. And we've seen this

1:24:07

quite a number of times, you

1:24:10

know, men, especially believing

1:24:13

that their best course of

1:24:16

action is to murder their

1:24:18

wives rather than get a divorce.

1:24:22

And I think it's just really

1:24:24

hard to fathom coming to that

1:24:26

conclusion in your head. I

1:24:28

mean, does anybody really want to

1:24:30

have to get divorced? No, nobody

1:24:32

gets married with the thought

1:24:35

that, well, yeah, I know we're getting divorced.

1:24:38

That's not the thought you have when you get married,

1:24:40

but sometimes marriages don't

1:24:42

work and people

1:24:44

end up wanting to

1:24:47

separate divorce. I get

1:24:49

all that. What I don't get is

1:24:52

thinking that your best

1:24:54

way out of a marriage is to

1:24:56

kill your partner. That's the

1:24:58

part I struggle with. But we

1:25:01

see it all the time. We do. But

1:25:03

that's it for us on the Stephen

1:25:06

Allwine case. We've got some voicemails, Gibs. You want to

1:25:08

check those out? Let's hear them. Hi,

1:25:10

Gibby and Mike. This is Michelle. I

1:25:12

was listening to your Matthew Owens case

1:25:14

and Gibby, you sounded like you were

1:25:17

from New York, not Boston. You're like,

1:25:19

cool, see you're Boston. That's

1:25:21

New York City. In Boston, we talk

1:25:24

just like this. I'm a lifer. In

1:25:26

Boston, I love it. From the Red

1:25:28

Sox to the now Doc Troughton Patriots

1:25:30

to Celtics and Bruins. Those are your

1:25:33

Boston teams. Also, there was a person

1:25:35

who called in to ask you for

1:25:37

advice on her graduate education, and I'm

1:25:40

curious that each time somebody asks

1:25:42

you what your degrees are in,

1:25:44

you just give the degree title

1:25:46

of a PhD doctorate, master's, but

1:25:48

you never say the concentration. I

1:25:51

have a degree in special education

1:25:53

and in applied sociology

1:25:55

focused on social policy, both for

1:25:57

a master's degree. So I'm wondering.

1:26:00

what prevents you or why

1:26:02

you refusing to mention what

1:26:04

your degree concentrations are in.

1:26:07

Thanks for answering my questions. Mike,

1:26:09

I love you. You've got some

1:26:11

really good comebacks. Thanks. Bye.

1:26:14

Yeah, Gibb. Why do you

1:26:16

refuse to get into specifics

1:26:19

regarding your numerous alleged

1:26:22

degrees? Talking to me. Are

1:26:24

you talking to me? You like apples?

1:26:26

Yeah. How do you like them apples? Yeah,

1:26:29

I think it's in world studies. World

1:26:33

studies. I don't know what that is. General

1:26:36

studies. I guess we just leave

1:26:38

it at you may or may not have a

1:26:41

number of different degrees. They

1:26:43

have most likely. Or unwilling

1:26:47

or not knowledgeable enough

1:26:49

to tell everybody what they're

1:26:51

in. I don't like to boast

1:26:53

about myself. Yeah, you're not a braggard. Oh,

1:26:55

that's for sure. A little key. A

1:26:58

little key. A little key. Hey,

1:27:00

Mike and Gibb. This is Janice Colling from

1:27:02

New Hampshire. I've listened to you guys for

1:27:05

like a few years. But

1:27:07

something that's been burning in my brain for

1:27:09

a year was last year during Nurses Week,

1:27:13

which is starting today, which is May

1:27:15

5th, and Cinco de Mayo,

1:27:17

of course. There

1:27:20

was a story that you ran during that week

1:27:22

about a nurse that was murdering

1:27:25

patients. I'm

1:27:27

just hoping that this year during Nurses Week

1:27:29

that you don't share a

1:27:31

story that's about a nurse murdering

1:27:33

patients. I love your show.

1:27:35

I love both of you. I've been listening

1:27:38

for probably about three or four years now.

1:27:41

So just keep up the

1:27:43

good work and keep your own time

1:27:45

ticking. Thank you. Well,

1:27:48

we love nurses. Well, we do. And

1:27:50

that turned out to be one of

1:27:52

the more unfortunate coincidences. Yes. Of

1:27:55

the podcast. We just didn't know

1:27:57

it was Nurses Week. Just

1:28:00

so happen that we picked that case now

1:28:03

didn't happen this year because my daughter

1:28:06

is in Nursing. Yes

1:28:08

at you know the university

1:28:10

she's attending She made sure to remind me

1:28:13

so that we could tell all

1:28:15

the nurses Happy nurses week.

1:28:18

Yeah, happy nurses week. We

1:28:20

had one thing in the mailbag But it

1:28:22

was a really cool package sent to us

1:28:24

from the Watts family. They're

1:28:26

in Guantanamo Bay Yeah, some

1:28:28

really cool t-shirts like American

1:28:31

Forces Network

1:28:33

t-shirts radio shirts. Yeah, and

1:28:36

some pretty cool coins to go with

1:28:38

them very heavy coin Yeah, nice and

1:28:40

heavy. So we appreciate that very very

1:28:43

much All right, buddy That is

1:28:45

it for another episode of true crime all the

1:28:47

time so for Mike and give me stay

1:28:49

safe and keep your own time ticking You

1:28:59

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