0:00

Listening on Audible helps your imagination

0:02

soar. There's more to imagine when

0:04

you listen. I love Audible because

0:06

it has the best selection of

0:08

audiobooks without exception. Along with popular

0:10

podcasts and exclusive Audible originals. All

0:12

in one easy app. As an

0:14

Audible member, you choose one title

0:16

a month to keep from their

0:18

entire catalog. I've been listening to

0:21

author Lisa Jewell. I finished, then

0:23

she was gone. Now I'm on

0:25

to Before

0:27

I met you. And it's amazing

0:29

also. And it's even narrated by the

0:32

same person. So there's a little bit of

0:34

continuity there. New members can try Audible free.

0:36

For 30 days, visit

0:38

audible.com/TCAT or text

0:41

TCAT to 500

0:44

500. That's audible.com/TCAT or

0:46

text TCAT to 500

0:48

500. Music

1:24

Hello everyone and welcome to episode 390

1:26

of the True Crime All the Time

1:28

podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me

1:31

as always is my partner in true

1:33

crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, how are you?

1:35

I'm doing good. How about you? I'm doing very well.

1:38

Well, that's good. Yeah, it always is.

1:41

My new puppy Ivy's doing great. She's

1:45

such a cutie and such a good dog.

1:48

We're just really loving her to death.

1:51

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon

1:53

shout outs. We had Vance Bailey jump

1:55

up to our highest level. Well, thanks,

1:57

Bailey. Abby. What's going on, Abby? Elaine

1:59

Aher. Ahern. What's up Ahern? Christina

2:02

Frisch. Oh, thanks Christina.

2:04

Deanna Sambuki. Oh, Sambuki.

2:06

Or Sambuchi, not sure. Which

2:08

one? Oh, maybe a Sambuchi. Could be. Yeah.

2:11

Danny Smith. What's up Danny?

2:13

Marcia Weston. Well, thanks Weston.

2:16

Alexander Sanderson. Oh, thanks Alexander.

2:18

Morgan Horton jumped out into our highest level.

2:20

Horton here or what? A

2:22

who? And last but not least, Samantha

2:24

Wright. Well, if you're ain't right, you're not wrong

2:27

either. If we go back into the vault.

2:31

This week we selected Deet. Deet who?

2:34

Yep. Yeah. Exactly.

2:36

We had two great PayPal donations,

2:39

a sizable one from

2:41

Annie Tanaguchi. That's not easy

2:43

to say, Tanaguchi. You

2:45

said it perfectly. Well, of course

2:48

I'm part Italian. And also, Neely

2:50

Grafton. What's up Neely? So we

2:52

appreciate all the support we get.

2:54

We have a ton out right now. Gibbs

2:57

on Saturday night, we dropped a

2:59

new Patreon episode. And it's

3:01

about this judge and his

3:03

wife who were murdered in

3:05

Palm Beach County, West Palm Beach

3:07

back in the 50s. And

3:09

it turned out, it

3:12

took the police a while to figure it out.

3:14

But it turned out that a fellow judge who

3:16

was on the take. Yeah. Had

3:18

a role in their murders. But it

3:20

has some interesting characters in it. It does,

3:22

absolutely. And the way they figured it out

3:24

and all that. And then we

3:27

also have a brand new episode out

3:29

on True Crime All The Time Unsolved,

3:31

where we're headed to Columbia, South Carolina,

3:33

where in 2001, 25-year-old Shelton Sanders disappeared.

3:39

He was out with a friend. And

3:41

that friend, years later, was

3:44

charged with his murder, but was acquitted.

3:47

So there's a lot to unpack, a lot

3:49

to get into. Make sure you

3:51

check it out. All right, buddy. Are you

3:53

ready to get into this episode of True

3:55

Crime All The Time? I am ready. This

3:57

is a case that I've been wanting to

3:59

cut. cover for a very long time. We're

4:02

talking about the murder of Phil Hartman

4:05

on May 29th, 1998,

4:08

successful actor and comedian Phil Hartman was

4:10

killed by his wife, Brent

4:13

in a tragic murder suicide.

4:15

They appeared to be a happy couple to

4:18

outsiders, but those in their

4:20

inner circle knew that they

4:22

fought often and had tension in

4:24

their marriage. And for me, you

4:26

know, going back to those

4:29

days where Phil Hartman was on SNL,

4:32

those were some of the glory days. Oh sure

4:34

was. I mean, you think about the

4:36

people who were on there

4:39

with him and really him in

4:41

particular, I just felt

4:44

like he was so gifted. He could

4:46

play, you know, so

4:48

many different roles and

4:50

they were all played perfectly.

4:53

He uh, it was very funny.

4:55

And just extremely talented. Philip

4:58

Edward Hartman was born on September 24th, 1948

5:01

in Brantford, Ontario. I

5:05

also think there's a lot of funny

5:07

individuals who have come

5:09

from Canada, especially with Saturday

5:12

Night Live. Yeah. Mike Myers.

5:14

But then you know, you even get

5:16

into like the old SC TV deaths

5:18

with John Candy and

5:21

Eugene Levy from

5:23

Schitt's Creek stuff like that. It's

5:26

just a lot of funny Canadians. It's so cold up

5:28

there that maybe that's all you can do is just

5:30

be funny. Does

5:32

that keep you warm? Being

5:35

funny helps keep you warm. Phil

5:37

was the fourth of eight children. His

5:39

dad was a building material salesman

5:41

and his mother was a homemaker. In

5:44

a 1993 interview with people, Phil

5:47

said that he didn't make any ways

5:49

as a child and had a passive

5:52

people pleasing middle

5:54

child mentality. Okay. I

5:57

can relate because you're the middle

5:59

child. Yeah. Okay. Well, you are

6:01

somewhat passive, somewhat of

6:03

a people pleaser. I

6:05

am not. You definitely are not.

6:08

And maybe that's because I'm an only

6:10

child. Yeah. But I can see, you

6:12

know, as a middle

6:14

child, maybe you gotta

6:16

play peacemaker between some of the older

6:18

kids, some of the younger kids, you

6:20

know, you're trying to fit in, you're

6:22

trying to find your own way. I

6:25

could see the challenges. Trying to keep everybody

6:27

happy. Sure. Trying to

6:29

make sure you get enough at the dinner table. I'd

6:32

say it can be a challenge sometimes with those big

6:34

families like that. Phil's family

6:36

moved to Southern California. In

6:38

1960, he became a

6:40

US citizen 30 years later, in

6:43

1990. Took a while. Yeah,

6:45

did take a while. He was interested

6:47

in theater from a young age. And

6:49

in junior high, he performed with

6:51

Lynette Frombe, who was sentenced

6:53

to life in prison for

6:55

the attempted assassination of former

6:58

president Gerald Ford. Squeaky.

7:00

Squeaky Frombe. Squeaky Frombe. Did

7:03

you say Squeaky? No, Squeaky. No.

7:05

I think if people play it back, they're gonna

7:07

hear Squeaky. But it is

7:09

interesting, right? When you talk

7:12

about people who do really

7:14

bad things. Right. Well, obviously there

7:16

are a lot of different people who went

7:18

to school with them. Sure. Some

7:20

of them might later go on

7:23

to become famous themselves,

7:25

but they're not infamous, actually famous.

7:28

In this case, somebody went to school with

7:30

both of those. Somebody went

7:33

to school with her and they also

7:35

went to school with Phil. So

7:37

they can say, well, I went to school with.

7:40

The famous and the infamous. Yeah. After

7:43

graduation, Phil attended Santa Monica

7:45

College and then California State

7:47

University, Northridge, where he majored

7:50

in graphic design. Phil

7:52

worked several jobs before he became a

7:54

famous comedian. According to ABC, he was

7:57

a roadie for a band called Rockin'

7:59

The Okay. It's

8:01

not one that I'm familiar with. Maybe

8:03

it was like the early years before

8:06

the Foo Fighters came around. Well,

8:08

I am sure it was well before

8:11

the Foo Fighters came around, but

8:13

I'm not sure what your point is.

8:16

Mike Thomas, author of You Might

8:18

Remember Me, a biography on

8:20

Phil Hartman, said that Phil

8:23

lived a bohemian existence around

8:25

this time. And I know at

8:28

certain points in your life, you

8:30

have been known to lead a

8:32

bohemian existence. Nothing

8:35

wrong with that. There are even

8:37

claims online that bohemian

8:39

rhapsody in some

8:42

small part was crafted

8:44

based on you. I'm

8:47

going to have to say I can either

8:49

deny or confirm. Well,

8:52

what would an episode be without you saying

8:54

that? Thomas said in

8:56

an interview with Salon magazine, I also

8:58

thought it was really cool to read

9:00

about the real Phil, who was

9:03

more of a hippie than anything else. He

9:05

loved to surf. He loved to hang out

9:07

on the beach of Catalina, Smokepot.

9:10

He was not the characters he played, a

9:12

lot of whom tended to be more straight

9:15

laced, stick in the mud

9:17

boss like figures. And I wonder

9:19

how much of that is true for a lot of

9:21

actors. They're playing a character.

9:23

Sure. I'm assuming

9:26

a lot of times

9:28

much different than what

9:31

they are like in real life. You

9:33

know, sometimes you got to do what you got to

9:35

to move your career up. You

9:37

know, sometimes you're going to play a role

9:40

that is really not who you are.

9:42

Well, if you're a good actor, though, you can

9:45

pull those off. Sure. I

9:47

mean, I play a cowboy every weekend. And

9:49

you are not a cowboy. I am not. But

9:51

I do think it's true. You know,

9:53

if you look back or think back

9:55

on the characters he played on Saturday

9:57

Night Lot, they weren't the, you

9:59

know. over the top in

10:02

your face characters like

10:04

maybe a Dana Carvey played or,

10:06

uh, Adam Sandler, he

10:09

did play more of, uh, uh,

10:12

the straight guy, right? Not

10:14

to laugh out loud, but

10:16

he was super funny in

10:18

the way that he did it. In

10:20

1970, Phil married his first wife,

10:22

Gretchen Lewis. The marriage didn't last

10:25

long and they were divorced by

10:27

September, 1972. Pretty

10:29

quick. Yeah. I mean, to me,

10:32

that sounds like one

10:34

of those relationships where it

10:36

seems great until you're spending

10:39

every day, every day together. And

10:41

you soon realize that you're not

10:43

meant to be Phil's friend.

10:45

And attorney Steve small told 2020

10:48

Phil fell in love easily, but

10:51

wasn't very skilled at continuing a

10:53

relationship. That's a tough skill to

10:55

have. Making a relationship work.

10:57

Yeah. Well, it's easy to fall in

10:59

love. I think for a lot of

11:01

people, I kind of look at

11:03

that as the easy part. The

11:05

hard part is continually

11:08

working on a relationship,

11:11

you know, even a marriage because

11:13

it does take work. It takes sacrifice.

11:16

It takes compromise, takes

11:18

all those things. Yeah. And I think there

11:20

are some people who just, you know, are

11:23

not willing to do that. They want

11:25

things a certain way, but they want it the

11:27

way they want in the

11:29

mid seventies. Phil worked for

11:31

his brother's talent management agency

11:34

and he designed album covers for rock

11:36

band. Kind of cool. No, it

11:38

is kind of cool. It's also cool to

11:40

see how people ultimately

11:44

got to where they did, right? The route

11:46

that they took, you know, how many

11:49

people just out of high school burst

11:52

onto the set of

11:54

S and L or our

11:56

headlining big stadiums as

11:58

a comedian. It takes

12:00

work and you got to put in your due.

12:03

Yeah. But it was said that

12:05

Phil wanted to get away from

12:07

his self described introverted lifestyle. So

12:10

in 1975, Phil joined

12:12

the groundlings and improv group in

12:14

Los Angeles. He attended one of

12:17

their shows and volunteered

12:19

to participate. The groundlings

12:21

were so impressed by his performance

12:23

that they invited him to join

12:25

their group and take classes with

12:27

them. Oh, that's kind of impressive. It's

12:30

really cool. I also think,

12:32

you know, the groundlings is

12:35

a huge thing. A lot of SNL

12:37

characters came from there. It's, you

12:40

know, I think something akin to second city

12:42

in Chicago, a lot of SNL

12:45

cast members came from there as well.

12:48

But I think there's been a lot of famous people who

12:50

have gone through kind of both of those organizations.

12:54

Comedian Tracy Newman, a founder of

12:56

the groundlings told ABC, I

12:59

never saw an audience member come up

13:01

with that kind of excitement and energy.

13:04

It was like a hurricane hit that stage.

13:06

And I mean, in a good way, Phil

13:09

married his second wife, real

13:11

estate agent, Lisa Jarvis in

13:13

1982, Lisa said she

13:15

realized their relationship was over

13:18

after a year of marriage. That's pretty

13:20

rough. It is, but you know, I'm

13:22

also kind of getting the feeling

13:24

here that, you know,

13:26

much like what the one

13:29

guy said about Phil, he

13:31

fell in love easily, but he had

13:33

a hard time making relationships work. I

13:36

don't know that he was the one doing

13:38

the leaving. It sounds like it

13:40

was his partners who were leaving

13:43

him. Lisa told 2020, my

13:46

sense of Phil was that he was really two

13:48

people. He was the guy who

13:50

wanted to draw and write and

13:52

think and create and come up with ideas.

13:55

He was the actor and entertainer, and

13:58

then he was the recluse. Okay.

14:00

Can't say I know anybody like that. Nobody?

14:05

Well, I'm not an actor or entertainer, but,

14:08

and I wouldn't call myself a recluse, but

14:10

I do enjoy my

14:12

time. I love spending

14:14

time with my wife and the family, but

14:16

once they go to bed, then it becomes

14:18

kind of my time. For a very long

14:20

time. And I do kind of tend to

14:22

stay up late. Yes. She said

14:24

in a 1998 interview with People, he

14:27

would disappear emotionally. Phil's body

14:29

would be there, but he'd be in his

14:31

own world. That passivity made

14:34

you crazy. And when I'd

14:36

protest, he'd say, you're getting in the

14:38

way of my career and this is who

14:40

I am and what it's going to be

14:42

like. Focused on his

14:44

career. Yeah. And I do think

14:47

a lot of people who become

14:49

very successful do kind of

14:51

have that one track mind, you

14:54

know, whether it's real estate

14:56

or business or acting

14:58

or singing, they

15:01

pour everything into this

15:04

one thing in order

15:06

to become successful sports,

15:09

right? Basketball, baseball, football.

15:12

It takes up all of their,

15:14

you know, time and energy, which

15:16

can be very hard if you're

15:18

trying to have a relationship with

15:21

this person, because you're

15:23

not number one. No, they

15:25

may love you, but you're not number one. But

15:27

there's a lot of successful people that

15:30

got that way because they put themselves first. Or

15:33

whatever their goal was.

15:35

Yes. First. Yes. And

15:37

by extension themselves. So I get what you're

15:39

saying, but there's a price to pay

15:41

for that. Right? Of course.

15:43

Yeah. And I think in

15:46

many cases it's the prices,

15:48

relationships, things like

15:50

that. Lisa and Phil got divorced

15:52

in 1985. Phil

15:55

spent 11 years performing with

15:57

the Groundlings, but he did have

15:59

other actors. gigs in

16:01

the late 70s. Phil helped

16:03

Paul Rubens, a fellow groundlings

16:05

performer, create the character Pee-Wee

16:08

Herman. I did not know

16:10

that before we started researching this episode.

16:13

He even co-wrote the movie Pee-Wee's

16:15

Big Adventure and played Captain

16:17

Carl on the Pee-Wee Herman show. So,

16:21

you know, dating myself here, but that is

16:23

a show that I did watch back in

16:25

the day before I

16:27

knew what Paul Rubens was

16:30

going to get into. But

16:32

it was such a strange show for

16:35

the time. Like just had never seen

16:37

anything like it. Yeah, for sure. Yeah.

16:40

I know you love that voice. Yeah. But

16:42

think about that, right? 11

16:45

years performing with the groundlings. And I'm

16:47

sure he was not making a

16:49

boatload of money. No, but man,

16:52

talking about some amazing connections. And experience

16:54

and all that. But it goes back

16:56

to the, you know, you have to

16:58

pay your dues. Phil's big break came

17:00

in the fall of 1986 when

17:03

he joined Saturday Night Live as a

17:05

writer and performer, and

17:07

he is arguably best known for

17:10

his SNL sketches. Some

17:12

of his most memorable sketches were

17:14

based on his impressions of Bill

17:16

Clinton and Frank Sinatra. And

17:18

he did do a great clip. And you

17:21

kind of always remember the person

17:23

who does the sitting president

17:26

during that time span. Yeah.

17:28

Like you remember Will

17:31

Ferrell doing George W.

17:34

Yes. And you remember Dana Carvey

17:37

doing George H. It

17:40

just is just how it goes. I

17:43

even remember John

17:45

Lovett's doing Dukakis for

17:48

some reason. The political

17:50

people, they were so

17:52

good at it, doing them. You

17:54

can remember them. There was one that

17:56

I remember where, you know, Hartman's

17:59

playing Clinton. and Clinton's out

18:01

running. He's getting some exercise

18:04

and he's got all the secret service

18:06

with him and stuff. And he stops

18:08

at like a McDonald's or a fast

18:10

food restaurant to kind of talk to

18:12

people. And he says,

18:15

are you going to eat those fries?

18:17

And he starts taking food off everybody's

18:19

plates. And then he's eating as he

18:21

runs by the restaurant. Phil

18:24

set a record by

18:26

participating in 153 episodes.

18:29

Other cast members called him the glue

18:31

because he held the show together. Now,

18:35

my thought is that that record has

18:37

probably been broken because that

18:39

Keenan Thompson has been on there for,

18:41

I swear like 20 years. It seems

18:43

like, I think he left for a

18:46

little while and then maybe came back, but he

18:48

has been on the show for a long time.

18:50

Soon after joining SNL, Phil

18:53

went on a blind date and met

18:55

his future wife, Bryn Omdahl. Bryn's

18:58

birth name was Vicki Jo

19:00

Omdahl. She grew up in

19:02

Thief River Falls, Minnesota, and

19:05

had what was described by

19:07

her brother Greg as an

19:09

idyllic childhood. Would you say

19:11

you had an idyllic childhood? Yeah.

19:14

Mine was pretty good. Yeah, I can't complain. I

19:16

don't know if it was idyllic, but

19:18

it was really good. I mean, it was

19:21

good. According to people, Bryn

19:23

dropped out of high school and

19:25

got married to Doug Torfin, a

19:27

phone operator. She did some modeling

19:29

in Minneapolis before she decided to

19:32

move to California for better opportunities.

19:34

A lot of people do that,

19:36

right? They move to California. If

19:39

you were stuck in the Midwest

19:41

somewhere and you wanted to

19:43

be a model or an actor or an

19:45

actress, where were you going to go? Either

19:48

California or New York? Yeah. It's

19:50

really your only options. Most likely. Especially back then.

19:53

Bryn's dream was to be a model and actress,

19:55

and it seemed like she was off to a

19:57

good start. In the mid 80s, she She

20:00

signed with a modeling agency

20:02

and worked as a swimsuit

20:04

model for Catalina swimwear. In

20:06

her spare time, she went to auditions. Then

20:09

you do some modeling back in your high

20:11

school days. For Catalina swimwear,

20:13

which is quite a coincidence. It's very,

20:15

yeah, I mean, you know, that's

20:17

what you're into. Those little,

20:19

uh, banana hammock. Did

20:22

you just say banana hammock? I was about

20:24

to say banana hammock. Oh, we all know

20:26

what you meant to say. I'm

20:29

just saying, do you know what you really say? Banana

20:32

hammock. So you know,

20:35

she was figuring out her identity as

20:38

a lot of people do when they're young.

20:40

Sure. And she eventually decided to change

20:42

her name, which is how she went from

20:45

Vicki to Brent. Brent's brother

20:47

Greg told ABC that she developed

20:49

a cocaine problem when she first

20:51

moved to LA. He

20:53

convinced her to go to rehab and she

20:56

was mostly sober for years. Well,

20:58

if you're talking about California or

21:00

LA is specifically in the 1980s

21:02

and you're running

21:05

around in some circles

21:07

with actors or models, you're

21:10

probably going to be introduced to

21:12

cocaine. Yeah, I'm sure it was

21:15

easily available. Yeah, it seemed to

21:17

be everywhere. True

21:19

crime all the time is sponsored by

21:21

better health. You know, I can't believe

21:23

that we're heading into June already. This

21:25

year seems like it's flown by and

21:27

a lot of us make goals at

21:29

the beginning of the year. So

21:32

there's things that we're proud of so far in 2024. And

21:35

then there's things that we still want to accomplish.

21:38

Now, it's important to celebrate the wins, but

21:40

it's also important to make adjustments for the

21:42

rest of the year. Therapy can help you

21:44

take stock of your progress and set achievable

21:47

goals for the next six months. I've

21:49

used the better help service and it works.

21:51

I love the fact that I can connect

21:53

with the therapist from the privacy of my

21:56

own home in a spot where I feel

21:58

comfortable. If you're thinking of starting therapy. If

22:00

you've ever considered a career as a licensed

22:02

funeral director, find mortuary colleges

22:30

online associate degree program can be

22:32

completed in just two years. Find

22:35

Mortuary College provides an inclusive,

22:37

engaging, and innovative educational experience

22:40

that challenges and prepares tomorrow's

22:42

funeral service professionals. Being

22:44

a funeral director is about human

22:47

services, helping people, specifically helping the

22:49

living as they navigate the grieving

22:51

process. Their curriculum focuses on all

22:53

aspects of funeral service, including the

22:56

psychology, science, and business requirements of

22:58

the profession. To join their virtual

23:00

open house on Tuesday, July 9th,

23:02

please visit their website at www.fmc.edu

23:07

and RSVP with promo code WONDRY.

23:10

That's www.fmc.edu and

23:12

RSVP with promo

23:15

code WONDRY. Phil

23:18

and Bryn had a strong connection from

23:21

the beginning. An unnamed friend

23:23

told people he had never had a

23:26

quote unquote babe before

23:29

and she was it for him. He married

23:31

his dream girl and Bryn

23:34

was a very beautiful woman.

23:36

However, people reported that Bryn

23:38

and Phil were emotional opposites.

23:41

Biographer Mike Thomas told Salon

23:44

magazine his relationships would

23:46

always start out very intensely.

23:50

Intense emotionality, sexuality,

23:53

and then they would eventually peter out.

23:55

I mean with Phil, he was always on

23:58

the hunt for the new. The Frans. and

24:00

he had an artist's eye for beauty.

24:03

So it sounds like he kind of

24:05

got bored with the current

24:07

relationship and basically

24:10

didn't have anything else and

24:12

basically didn't have anything else to talk about

24:14

and just wanted something new. Well,

24:17

let's face it, there are some

24:20

guys who are all about

24:22

the hunt. And then

24:24

once they are able to

24:27

be with this person who they've

24:29

been trying to court or whatever

24:31

you wanna call it, then that

24:34

kind of is it for them. They go

24:36

on to look for somebody

24:38

else. It's almost

24:40

as if it's the pursuit that

24:44

drives them and not so

24:46

much the actual

24:48

relationship. And I have to

24:50

say, that seems like it would be a very sad

24:53

and lonely existence. It really seems

24:56

like to me. No,

24:58

I agree with you. Yeah, yeah, for sure it would be.

25:00

Not to mention the fact that you're probably hurting

25:02

a lot of people along the way. In

25:05

a different interview, Thomas said about

25:08

Phil's relationships. But as the

25:10

months go on, the cracks begin to show. And

25:12

Phil does what he did with his

25:15

last two relationships. He begins to withdraw

25:17

emotionally. They begin this pattern of

25:19

fighting and making up and

25:22

fighting and making up and

25:24

that would really mark their relationship

25:26

from there on out. And

25:28

I wonder how much of that, and

25:31

I don't know about Phil specifically, but I

25:33

do think there are some people who, they

25:36

get scared that

25:38

the relationship is going to

25:40

end. So it's almost like they

25:43

preemptively start to withdraw, which

25:45

almost inevitably is going to

25:47

cause the relationship to fail. Because

25:49

they're trying to keep themselves from

25:52

being hurt. Yes. So they'll

25:54

take the first step and... But

25:56

maybe it would never happen if they wouldn't. But

25:59

in their mind, they think... It will happen. And

26:01

then I also think there are couples

26:03

or, you know, people in relationships that,

26:05

you know, they, they have this

26:08

fight makeup, fight makeup

26:10

kind of dynamic.

26:13

Yeah. That's just not good. Well, it's

26:16

not, but some people can get addicted

26:18

to it. Sure they can. They like

26:20

the drama. Yeah. You like the drama.

26:22

You also, the makeup part

26:24

is great, but to

26:26

me that sounds exhausting. I would just

26:28

think you're always going to be on eggshells waiting for

26:30

the next fight to come around. Or

26:32

you're going to be the one trying to figure out when

26:34

to start the next fight. That's true too. Yeah. Phil

26:37

and Bryn got married in 1987. Their

26:40

son Sean was born a year later after

26:43

Phil's son was born. He called

26:45

his ex-wife, Lisa Jarvis, to tell

26:47

her he was a father. As

26:49

reported by ABC, Lisa

26:51

wrote a card that said something to the

26:54

effect of dear Phil and Bryn, much

26:57

love from aunt Lisa. If

26:59

you ever need a babysitter, I'm

27:01

so thrilled for you. Now I did

27:03

find that a little strange. You

27:05

know, some people have really,

27:08

really good relationships with their exes.

27:11

So maybe it's not that strange,

27:13

but you know, you're going to call

27:15

your ex and say, Hey, guess what? Not

27:17

only am I remarried, but I'm a

27:19

daddy. Yep. I'm a dad. And she's probably like,

27:22

okay, great. But it sounds like she was very

27:24

gracious. You know, she sent a

27:26

nice letter, but according to Lisa, she

27:29

got back a letter that was hair curling,

27:31

fury, rage, and

27:33

a death threat from Brent.

27:36

The gist of it was don't

27:38

ever fucking get near me or my

27:40

family, or I will hurt you. I

27:43

never want to hear from you. Never,

27:45

ever, ever come near us or you

27:47

will really be sorry. That's

27:50

brutal. That is brutal, but

27:52

she's probably trying to protect her, uh, interest

27:55

in her man and obviously her child.

27:58

Yeah. Maybe in her mind, she is. Well,

30:00

and I think that's why so many of the

30:02

relationships don't work. Like when

30:05

two stars are together. Yeah. Not

30:07

to mention the fact that oftentimes

30:11

they're both off in different parts

30:13

of the world on different sets

30:15

or whatever it is. Any

30:18

good quality time together. Yeah. But

30:21

you could see how that could be frustrating

30:23

for her, right? She wants to be a

30:26

model. She wants to be an actress. It's

30:29

not working out, but you know,

30:31

here's Phil who's on SNL,

30:33

you know, every Saturday night,

30:35

he's becoming this big star.

30:38

Everyone loves him. Yeah. Well,

30:40

why, why am I not making it? Right? Why can't

30:42

I do? Bren's friend,

30:44

Susan Stadner recalled that

30:46

Bren got plastic surgery due

30:49

to low self-esteem, a

30:51

plastic surgeon who operated on her

30:53

told people that Bren wanted to

30:55

be the perfect wife of a

30:57

Hollywood actor. The Hartman's former nanny

31:00

in New York reported that some of

31:02

the surgery was Phil's idea. He

31:04

thought Bren's face was too round and

31:07

wanted her chin to be more

31:09

square. Okay. Not

31:11

sure what the real truth

31:14

is. And maybe both of them are true.

31:17

I can't imagine going to my wife

31:19

and saying, you know what, honey, I've

31:22

been thinking about it. Your face is

31:24

just too round. And I need for

31:26

your chin to be more square. Can we square

31:28

that off a little bit? You

31:30

know how that conversation

31:32

would go. Not good for you.

31:34

No, there would be a

31:37

number of expletives and I'd

31:39

be told where I could stick that idea. And

31:41

I don't know how this helps somebody with self steam

31:44

issues. I don't think it does at

31:46

all. Yeah. Because you're basically telling them

31:49

that they're not good enough. Right. In

31:51

your eyes. If this is how it

31:54

really went down as

31:56

relayed by this former nanny, it's

31:58

definitely not you loving. And

36:00

it's like, how do I stay

36:02

here? Yeah. How do I stay on top?

36:04

When am I going to be knocked off?

36:06

Because everybody gets knocked off at some point,

36:09

except for, you know, Tom

36:12

Hanks. Nothing ever happens to

36:14

Tom Hanks. Now, sometimes some

36:16

of them make a comeback, right? And

36:18

their second go around is actually

36:20

better than their previous go around.

36:23

Sure. Maybe it's not movies.

36:25

Maybe they switch to TV or whatever it

36:27

is. Phil's work

36:29

schedule increased in the nineties. He was

36:31

still working on SNL and the Simpsons

36:34

and was doing commercials for big brands

36:36

like Cheetos and McDonald's. He

36:38

was also a regular on late night

36:41

talk shows. He wasn't home as often

36:43

as Bren wanted him to be. And

36:46

I think it's pretty hard to be home when

36:48

you have that much stuff going on. I

36:51

mean, Saturday Night Live is done

36:53

in New York. Yeah. So if

36:55

you're living in California, obviously

36:57

you're going to be gone for a number of

36:59

days, rehearsal, the

37:02

taping, all of that. And if you're doing

37:04

a movie, if you're doing commercials, it's not

37:06

a lot of time for home life. No,

37:09

it's not. Biographer Mike

37:11

Thomas explained that Phil might have

37:13

liked the idea of fatherhood more

37:16

than the work of being a parent. And

37:19

that's a very interesting statement.

37:22

Being a father is great. It's

37:25

one of the greatest joys

37:28

of my entire life. I agree. But

37:31

there's a boatload of work involved. Yeah,

37:33

not easy. And being a parent, it's

37:35

not an easy thing. And I do

37:37

think there are some people who have

37:40

this notion of being a parent, but

37:43

when it comes to

37:45

doing everything involved, especially

37:47

if you're a guy like that who

37:49

has a very busy schedule. When

37:51

you get home from doing all of these

37:54

things, are you then

37:56

changing all the poopy diapers? Right. I

37:58

don't know. Yeah, I mean, I think. There's

38:00

definitely a difference between being a father or

38:02

a mother versus a parent. I

38:05

mean, to be a parent, you're

38:07

parenting. And that's a lot of work. Oh,

38:09

you mean as opposed to just biologically

38:12

being this person's mom

38:14

or dad. Yeah, I get it. I give a true

38:16

sign. Bren was resentful

38:18

because Phil was always working. And

38:21

again, she was jealous of his

38:23

successful career. Well, at some point

38:25

you have to realize it

38:27

is what it is, right? Yeah,

38:30

I think so. And you

38:32

know, you're that you're also benefiting

38:34

from it as well. You know,

38:37

you have the wealth that allows you

38:39

to live in, in the big

38:42

house and be financially secure. But

38:44

it sounds to me like she kind of

38:46

never let go of the, some of those

38:48

dreams that she had of either

38:51

being an actress or being a big model

38:53

or, or whatever it was. Bren's

38:56

brother Greg told ABC, she

38:58

just wanted to be more part of the

39:00

spotlight than she was. You know? And

39:03

again, I do think that would be hard

39:05

for some people. You're married to

39:08

someone who's on magazine covers,

39:10

who's on the television all

39:12

the time. And you're not getting

39:14

that same type of spotlight. No,

39:17

nowhere near it. Phil and Bren

39:19

argued often she was

39:21

described as volatile and insecure

39:23

about her husband's fame by

39:25

people magazine. Phil was

39:27

outwardly genial, but sullen and

39:30

withdrawn in private. Phil

39:32

once told his friend I go into my

39:34

cave and she throws grenades to get me

39:37

out. Phil's friend, Steve small

39:39

later told the LA times, she

39:41

had trouble controlling her anger. She

39:43

got attention by losing her temper. Phil

39:46

said he had to restrain her at

39:48

times. Okay. This sounds like a

39:51

really rocky marriage. It really does. I

39:54

think you're also seeing the

39:56

difference of on camera or in public.

42:00

roles in the comedy, Sergeant

42:02

Bilko in jingle all

42:04

the way, starring Arnold Schwarzenegger. And

42:06

actually for me, Sergeant Bilko is

42:09

an underrated movie. I don't know if you've

42:11

seen it. He's really good

42:13

in it. I haven't seen it. If

42:15

I did, I don't remember. It's based off, I

42:17

think in either an old TV show or an

42:19

old movie, but he, he

42:21

plays this Sergeant in the army who's

42:24

basically running like an underground

42:27

scam type thing. But

42:30

he's really funny. But I did see

42:32

jingle all the way. Yeah, with Arnold.

42:34

Yeah, that was awesome. We

42:37

get support from Dove. Hey y'all, it's

42:39

your girl Kiki Palmer, host of the

42:41

Wondery podcast, baby, this is Kiki Palmer.

42:44

Let me cut to the chase. Did

42:46

you know that in many states across

42:48

the US, it's still not illegal to

42:50

discriminate against people based on the way

42:52

their hair grows out of their head

42:54

to deny black folks from jobs and

42:56

opportunities because they have braids, locks, twists,

42:58

or bantu knots? That's messed up. And

43:00

today's sponsor, Dove, agrees. That's why

43:02

Dove co-founded the Crown Coalition in 2019 to

43:04

advocate for the passage of the Crown

43:07

Act. Crown stands for creating a

43:09

respectful and open world for natural

43:11

hair. And the Crown Act is

43:14

legislation which prohibits race-based hair discrimination

43:16

in workplaces and schools in

43:18

the US. Dove is driving awareness

43:20

by advocating for petition signatures and

43:22

supporting the Crown movement to create

43:24

a society where black hair is

43:26

not only accepted, but respected and

43:28

celebrated in all of its beauty.

43:31

Join Dove in taking action to

43:33

help end race-based hair discrimination by

43:35

signing the Crown Act petition at

43:37

dove.com/crown. That's

43:39

dove.com/crown. Hey,

43:41

Hey, I'm Ryan Reynolds. At Mint Mobile, we

43:43

like to do the opposite of what big

43:45

wireless does. They charge you a lot, we

43:47

charge you a little. So naturally, when they

43:50

announced they'd be raising their prices due to

43:52

inflation, we decided to deflate our prices due

43:54

to not hating you. That's right, we're cutting

43:56

the price of Mint Unlimited from $30 a

43:58

month to just $15 a month. Give

44:02

it a try at mintmobile.com/switch.

44:05

$45 up front for three months plus taxes and fees. Promote it for

44:07

new customers for a limited time. Unlimited more than 40 gigabytes per month,

44:09

slows. Full terms at mintmobile.com. Brin

44:13

was still working on establishing her

44:15

acting career. She played a

44:17

minor role in the 1994 film North and

44:19

appeared in an episode of third

44:23

rock from the sun. And that's a show

44:25

I used to watch a lot as well after

44:27

nearly a decade of sobriety. Brin

44:30

began drinking and using drugs

44:33

in late 1997. Phil's

44:35

co-star Andy Dick gave cocaine

44:37

to Brin at a Christmas

44:39

party. And you know, back in the

44:42

day, Andy Dick was pretty funny. I

44:44

know he's gotten into quite a bit of

44:46

trouble. Controversy. In,

44:49

in recent years, Dick

44:51

spoke to 2020 years later and

44:53

said, she was already in

44:55

relapse mode, which I didn't even know

44:58

she had a problem with at all. In the

45:00

first place, Brin was taking

45:02

Zola, an antidepressant at

45:05

the time of her death, according to the

45:07

Mayo clinic. And aggressive

45:09

reaction is a less

45:11

common side effect of Zola. She

45:14

turned 40 the month before she died.

45:17

And she struggled to accept the fact

45:19

that she was aging as

45:21

do we all. Yeah. Coming

45:23

from a guy who at

45:26

the time this episode airs, we'll

45:28

just have had another birthday in

45:31

another year older. Yeah. And they

45:34

seem to be coming faster

45:36

and faster. Oh, happy birthday.

45:38

Appreciate that. In the months

45:40

leading up to the murder, she was in

45:42

and out of rehab. She also checked

45:44

into a clinic in Arizona, but

45:47

only stayed four or five days before

45:49

she left. Brin was drinking

45:51

and using cocaine again days before

45:53

her death, which can

45:56

cause negative side effects when

45:58

mixed with antidepressants. Not

46:00

a good combination. No, and a

46:02

lot of people take antidepressants, probably

46:04

more now so than ever

46:07

before. Sure. There are

46:09

quite a few things that you're not

46:12

supposed to take with them. I

46:14

think I know more people that take them than

46:16

don't take them. God, I'm right with

46:18

you. According to a

46:20

TV producer who knew the family, Bryn's

46:23

erratic behavior caused their housekeeper to

46:25

quit 10 days before

46:27

the murder-suicide. According

46:29

to Greg Omdahl, Bryn and Phil were

46:32

fighting more than usual. By the spring

46:34

of 1998, they saw a

46:36

counselor, which they said helped.

46:39

They wanted to improve for each other. I

46:41

think that's a good step. Yeah, I think

46:43

if you're having problems, or sometimes even

46:46

if you're not having problems, but it's

46:48

just getting kind of stale. Or you

46:50

think things could be better. Yeah. But

46:52

the wanting to improve, the

46:55

relationship, and then each other

46:57

on their own, that's a big

46:59

step. You got to have the want to. Sure.

47:02

Yeah, it's not going to do any good if you're dragging your

47:04

feet going into the therapy. However,

47:07

back in 1998, Bryn's

47:09

childhood friend, Jeannie Peterson, told

47:11

people that Bryn wanted out

47:14

of her marriage. Peterson said she

47:16

had been trying to get a divorce

47:18

for two years, but Phil wouldn't agree

47:20

to it. Others say it was Phil

47:22

who was ready to end the marriage. So

47:25

there is a little bit of a debate, I guess. Depending

47:28

on who you talked to about

47:31

who really wanted to end the

47:33

marriage and who didn't. No doubt. There's

47:36

a lot of people that are in a marriage right now that don't

47:38

want to be in it, but they're not going

47:40

to do anything about it because of many reasons.

47:42

Yeah. So there's people listening right

47:44

now who are saying, yes, yes,

47:47

Gibby. I am one of those

47:49

people. I would like to get out. But I can't.

47:51

On May 28th, 1998, Bryn

47:54

fatally shot Phil inside there in

47:57

Cino home and then shot herself

47:59

in the head. hours later on

48:01

the evening of May 27th, family

48:04

babysitter Lorraine Moss was waiting for

48:06

Phil to get home because

48:08

it was almost time for her to go. Bren

48:10

had already left and said she

48:13

wasn't coming back until late that evening.

48:15

Bren went out to a restaurant with

48:18

her friend Christine Zander. Zander

48:20

told people she was in

48:22

a good frame of mind. She seemed content.

48:24

Bren drank two cosmos over

48:27

two hours. According to

48:29

Zander, she didn't talk about any problems in

48:31

her life and they'd made plans

48:33

to see each other the next weekend. The

48:36

bartender at the restaurant said that nothing

48:39

seemed off about Bren. She

48:41

and her friend were smiling and laughing

48:43

during dinner. When Bren left she told

48:45

him I'll be back real soon and

48:48

I'll be sure to bring Phil next time.

48:50

It's kind of an interesting encounter.

48:53

You know, two cosmos over a

48:55

couple of hours. Okay. It's

48:57

nothing crazy. It's not like she

48:59

drank five pitchers of margaritas

49:01

in an hour. Yeah. Seems

49:03

pretty standard for a night out. Yeah.

49:06

And then you have all of these

49:08

interactions making it

49:10

seem as though she

49:13

wasn't a person on the brink

49:15

of, you know, committing some horrendous

49:17

act. Yeah. At 10 15

49:19

p.m. Bren drove to her

49:22

friend and former lover Ron Douglas's

49:24

home. Douglas said that Bren drank

49:26

a few beers and complained

49:28

about Phil. She left his house

49:30

at 12 45 a.m. and drove herself

49:34

home. It's a little strange,

49:36

you know, if you're married what are you

49:38

doing at your ex-lover's house? Well,

49:41

and is it also the difference

49:43

in how you're going to act

49:46

when you're out in public versus

49:49

behind closed doors? Absolutely. But

49:51

for someone to be so jealous just about

49:53

a letter that Phil's ex-wife said

49:56

now she's over at her ex-lover's house.

50:00

Well, does that mean that

50:02

she knew that she was

50:05

going to do something? Authorities

50:08

believe that Brennan Phil got into

50:10

an intense argument that ended with

50:12

her shooting him in his sleep.

50:15

Steven small, a friend of Phil said

50:18

he made it very clear that if she

50:20

started using drugs again, that

50:22

would end the relationship small

50:24

describe the typical pattern of the

50:26

couple's arguments. She had to

50:29

get amped up to get his attention. And

50:31

when she got amped up, he would

50:33

simply go to sleep. He would withdraw

50:35

and in the morning he'd wake up

50:38

and everything would be fine. And

50:40

I do think there are some people like

50:43

this. You know, they need the

50:46

attention. And so they

50:48

create drama or, you know,

50:50

some type of scene because

50:53

they're trying to draw some type

50:55

of emotion out of

50:57

their partner. Right. Yeah. It sounds

50:59

like maybe that's what she was trying to

51:01

do. It also sounds like he

51:03

wasn't having any of it. He sounded

51:06

like he didn't care. You, you, you go ahead

51:08

and yell at me. You can say the nastiest

51:10

things about me. I'm just going to

51:12

go ahead and close my eyes and go to sleep. And

51:14

tomorrow morning, it's going to be back to normal. It

51:17

was almost as if she couldn't get the

51:19

rise out of him that she was trying

51:21

to get. The couple's son, Sean

51:23

later told the police that he heard

51:26

the slamming of a door around the

51:28

time of the shooting. Both

51:30

children were in their bedrooms. When the

51:33

shooting occurred at 3 45. A.M.

51:35

Ron Douglas was woken up by someone

51:37

pounding on his front door. He

51:40

saw that Bryn was outside per

51:42

ABC. Bryn told him, I killed

51:44

Phil. I don't know why Douglas

51:47

didn't believe her. Bryn called

51:49

another friend and confessed what she

51:51

did, but Douglas was still

51:54

doubtful. And again, this

51:56

Douglas guy is her ex lover.

51:58

Yeah. So. It's kind of

52:00

strange that she went back to him, but he

52:03

didn't believe Bren until a gun fell out

52:05

of her purse. He put it

52:07

in the trunk of his car and they

52:09

drove separately to Bren's home. Douglas

52:12

saw Phil's body in bed.

52:14

He went into the hallway to call 911 at 6 20 AM. Okay.

52:19

So your ex lover

52:22

shows up at your house saying

52:24

that she just shot and

52:26

killed her husband, you're

52:29

dubious until a gun falls

52:31

out of her purse. And this

52:33

guy's first thought is to pick the gun

52:35

up and put it in his own trunk.

52:37

Yeah. I thought that was very

52:39

strange. Now I get it.

52:41

You probably don't want her to have it.

52:44

Yeah. So you're going to secure it in a place

52:47

that you feel like you can do that. But

52:49

I also feel like the true crime

52:51

person in me is screaming. Don't

52:53

touch it. Don't touch it. And especially don't

52:55

put it in your own trunk. Yeah.

52:58

Cause at that point she could say he killed

53:01

Phil because he was jealous. Yeah.

53:03

You know, I had been with him

53:05

the night before or whenever it was.

53:08

So he sees Phil's body. He

53:10

calls 911. Then

53:13

he saw that Bren had locked herself

53:15

inside the bedroom. The police

53:17

arrived soon after and found nine year

53:19

old Sean running out the front door

53:22

as officers were removing Bergen from

53:25

the house. They heard a gunshot

53:27

and found both Phil and Bren dead

53:29

in the main bedroom. She was

53:32

lying beside him on the bed. Phil

53:34

was shot twice in the head and

53:36

once in his right side with a 38 caliber handgun,

53:40

it was one of several weapons. Phil kept in

53:42

a safe in the house. Bren

53:44

was killed by a self-inflicted gunshot

53:46

wound to the mouth. So

53:49

a pretty horrific scene. She

53:51

kills him. Then she turns

53:54

the gun on herself. They

53:56

wind up lying in the same bed

53:58

next to each other. Yeah,

54:01

almost as if she realized

54:03

what she had done. She was

54:05

sorry about what she had done

54:07

and she knew she couldn't live

54:09

with herself over what she

54:11

had done. Now she could have

54:14

shot herself anywhere. Sure.

54:17

Is it significant that she

54:19

shot herself in the

54:21

same bed where he

54:23

was? And my thinking is

54:25

it, there probably is some significance

54:27

to it. Both children

54:29

were distressed and confused in the

54:31

aftermath of the murder suicide, they

54:34

were taken to a police station

54:36

for questioning. Family friend, Joel

54:38

Diamond took the children from the police

54:40

station to a park. Sean

54:42

told him, my mom promised me

54:44

she'd take me to a lot of fun

54:46

places and now she'll never be

54:49

able to. How sad. Yeah. I

54:51

mean, those kinds of statements

54:53

made by young kids,

54:55

it just break your heart. Bergen

54:58

said, I know I'll never

55:00

see my mommy and daddy again.

55:03

Again, Bergen's even younger. Yeah.

55:06

It's just tough. You know what I mean? These kids

55:08

at that time were so little and you lose

55:10

both your parents. In the

55:12

way that it happened. In the way that it happened.

55:14

Because I always think about that. You know, if

55:17

they were involved in a fatal car

55:19

accident and they both died, yeah, that

55:22

would be one thing. It's still going to

55:24

be horrible for them. Absolutely. But

55:26

to know that your mom

55:28

shot your dad and

55:30

then shot herself, that's a different

55:34

level of processing

55:36

that's going to have to happen

55:38

over the years. That's definitely some

55:40

more intense therapy. Yeah. Bryn's

55:43

toxicology report was released on June

55:45

8th, 1998. Her

55:48

blood alcohol level was 0.12. She

55:52

had cocaine and antidepressants in

55:54

her system as well. According

55:57

to Phil's brother, John Hartman, the

55:59

corner. him that Bren

56:01

had combined Zoloft with alcohol

56:04

and she did not know what she was doing

56:06

or why she was doing it. He

56:09

said, I took that as true and

56:11

I forgave her in that moment.

56:13

Yeah, I think, you know, she kind

56:15

of realized she did something wrong when she

56:17

went over to her ex lover's house and

56:20

said, I killed Phil and I don't know why.

56:22

Well, we talked about the

56:25

mixing of drugs and alcohol

56:27

before. I mean, some of

56:29

this stuff just on its own can do

56:31

some things to you. But when you

56:33

start mixing a bunch of different things,

56:36

antidepressants, cocaine, alcohol,

56:40

the side effects can be devastating.

56:43

Phil's former co-star Andy Dick told 2020

56:45

that Phil's

56:47

SNL co-star John Lovitz blamed

56:49

him for causing Bren

56:51

to relapse and therefore

56:54

causing the murder. Suica Dick

56:56

told 2020, I didn't cause her

56:58

to relapse. That's one of the misconceptions.

57:01

That is not true. Not

57:03

true. Like for real, I didn't

57:05

cause her to relapse and I didn't

57:07

give her cocaine. And then

57:09

she ran off, got a gun and

57:11

shot her husband and herself. No, that

57:13

happened six months later. So

57:16

obviously he was catching some

57:18

heat from different people. Now,

57:21

did he cause her to relapse? I don't know.

57:24

Was she using cocaine before he

57:26

gave her some at the party that night?

57:29

I don't know. There's also the issue

57:32

of she could have said, no, of

57:35

course I'm sober. I don't

57:37

want to take that. But obviously he

57:40

didn't cause the murder suicide. I

57:42

think that's pretty clear. You know,

57:44

like, like he said, it's not like

57:47

all of this happened at the same time.

57:49

The murder suicide happened six months

57:52

after this party. In

57:54

1999, Greg Omdahl filed a wrongful

57:56

death suit against Pfizer, which makes

57:58

Zoloft he alleged. that the

58:00

use of Zoloft caused Bren to not

58:02

know what she was doing and

58:05

shoot her husband. When she came out of

58:07

it, she shot her cell.

58:09

Pfizer issued a statement to

58:12

salon health that there's no

58:14

scientific or medical evidence that

58:16

Zoloft causes violent or suicidal

58:18

behavior. The suit was settled for

58:21

a hundred thousand dollars and there was

58:23

no admission of any wrongdoing. And

58:25

this is something that you and I have

58:27

experienced. We've talked about it

58:29

on a number of occasions. When

58:32

you are a big company, it

58:34

is often in your best

58:36

interest to settle some of these lawsuits.

58:38

Especially some of these quickly.

58:42

Well, and, and high profile. Yeah.

58:44

You know, for a fact that to

58:47

fight it, they would have spent more

58:49

than a hundred thousand dollars. Oh yeah.

58:51

And legal fees easily. And you don't

58:53

want people jumping on to

58:55

the lawsuit. Yes. So you want to go ahead

58:57

and just settle it, get it done, brush

59:00

it to the side and hope that it gets

59:02

buried and, and move forward. So

59:04

as we wrap this one up Gibbs, you know,

59:06

I said it's one that I've been wanting to

59:08

do for a long time, mainly because I just

59:11

really thought Phil Hartman was amazing

59:15

as a comedic actor. And

59:17

he still remembered today as

59:19

an extremely talented actor and comedian

59:22

in 2007, entertainment

59:24

weekly ranked Phil, 87th

59:27

on a list of a hundred

59:29

greatest television icons of all time.

59:31

Pretty, pretty good. There have been

59:34

a lot of people on television

59:36

over the last what? 60

59:39

plus years or however long television's been

59:41

around. So to be included

59:43

in the top hop 100, that

59:46

is pretty amazing. In 2015, Rolling

59:50

Stone named him one of the 10

59:52

greatest SNL performers in

59:54

the show's history. That's also a

59:57

really big achievement. If

59:59

you look at the, people who have come

1:00:01

and gone through SNL since the

1:00:04

1970s. It's

1:00:06

the who's who of comedic

1:00:08

actors. It really is. So many

1:00:10

great performers. Phil and Bryn's

1:00:13

children were raised by Bryn's sister

1:00:15

and her husband. The children

1:00:17

grew up out of the spotlight

1:00:19

and live private lives as adults.

1:00:22

Sean is now in his thirties and

1:00:24

has started a career as an artist

1:00:26

and musician. Bergen is

1:00:28

married and started her own business.

1:00:31

Bergen occasionally posts on social

1:00:33

media. In 2015, she

1:00:36

attended the 40th anniversary special

1:00:38

of SNL and spoke

1:00:41

to the Hollywood reporter around

1:00:43

the 25th anniversary of the Simpsons. You

1:00:45

know, these kids gotta be pretty tough

1:00:47

to, to get through what

1:00:50

they had to go through and,

1:00:52

um, come out what

1:00:54

appears to be pretty well

1:00:56

adjusted. And you mentioned

1:00:59

therapy earlier. I'm, I'm hoping there was

1:01:01

probably some of that. I'm sure there was. Yeah.

1:01:04

Yeah. But Phil Hartman was loved

1:01:06

by his fellow actors and many fans.

1:01:09

You know, he likely would have gone

1:01:11

on to star in many

1:01:13

more TV shows and films before

1:01:15

his retirement, he still considered

1:01:17

a great comedian and an

1:01:19

inspiration to many people in the

1:01:21

industry. And, you know, this is

1:01:24

a different type of story. I

1:01:27

think then a lot of the ones that we

1:01:29

do, you know, she didn't kill

1:01:31

him for greed. You

1:01:33

know, it wasn't for insurance money or

1:01:35

because she wanted to run off and

1:01:38

be with

1:01:41

somebody else and not

1:01:43

lose the kids or any of those reasons that

1:01:45

we see in a lot of the cases

1:01:48

that we do, I do think

1:01:50

there were a lot of factors that

1:01:52

played into this murder, suicide.

1:01:55

Their relationship seemed to be

1:01:57

a little toxic, pretty volatile.

1:02:01

at times, it's hard

1:02:03

to discount the drugs

1:02:06

and the alcohol and what

1:02:08

role did that play? At

1:02:10

the end of the day, it's just a sad

1:02:12

outcome for everyone. Yeah.

1:02:16

Devastated their family. Yeah, absolutely. But

1:02:18

that's it for our episode on the murder

1:02:20

of Bill Hartman. We've got some voicemails, Gibbs,

1:02:22

you want to check those out? Let's hear

1:02:24

them. Hi, guys. My name

1:02:26

is Alicia. I am a

1:02:31

prison advocate, social justice

1:02:33

organizer in California. I

1:02:36

was just listening to the

1:02:38

latest episode, the part two of Booty

1:02:40

Areas, and the question came

1:02:42

up about restitution. And I thought

1:02:44

I'd give you a call and give you a

1:02:47

little bit of information on it. But it's a

1:02:49

little bit different in Arizona, even if it is

1:02:51

in California, but not much here in California. People

1:02:55

that are incarcerated within CDCR and

1:02:57

owe restitution will have 50% of

1:02:59

their pay taken immediately. So they're

1:03:02

eight cents an hour, 16 cents

1:03:04

an hour, 32 cents

1:03:06

an hour will be cut

1:03:08

in half and immediately go to victim

1:03:10

restitution. If there's money

1:03:12

sent in, if you send money into your loved

1:03:15

one, you go through one of the websites to

1:03:17

pay. Your money is

1:03:19

automatically taken as well. If you send

1:03:21

$100, your loved one inside gets $50.

1:03:25

As far as who gets

1:03:27

or how many victims get

1:03:29

actually see the restitution, it's less

1:03:31

than 1%, at least out here in California. Most

1:03:35

victims don't even are not even

1:03:37

aware that there's a restitution plot sitting

1:03:39

for them. So it just kind of goes

1:03:41

untouched. It's

1:03:44

hard for me because these folks

1:03:46

inside, regardless of crime, are still

1:03:48

human beings and still need to

1:03:50

eat. And without

1:03:52

money, without commissary, they're not fed enough.

1:03:55

So this is something that we have

1:03:57

pushed back on quite a bit. Yeah.

1:04:00

And then I, I did look up Arizona and

1:04:02

their rules are just a little bit different. There's

1:04:04

a 20 as low as 20% and

1:04:06

up to 50% as automatically taken out. Hope

1:04:09

this helps. Um, I love y'all show. Thank

1:04:12

you so much. I am so addicted. I

1:04:14

listened to every single of the search guys

1:04:16

are amazing. Thanks so much. Keep it up.

1:04:18

It's your own time. Pick in the site. So

1:04:20

we only had one voicemail cause that one was a little

1:04:23

longer, but I wanted to play it cause I thought it

1:04:25

was some really good information. Now again,

1:04:27

if you're making eight cents an hour or 16 cents

1:04:30

an hour, okay. How long is

1:04:33

it going to take to pay back 40, 60, a

1:04:36

hundred thousand dollars? Yeah. You're never going to

1:04:38

pay it. No, but it

1:04:41

does, according to

1:04:43

her really kind of hurt

1:04:45

the inmate because that's just less that

1:04:50

they're able to use for commissary.

1:04:53

And I thought the part about garnishing

1:04:55

what is sent in by friends and family,

1:04:59

that was pretty interesting. I didn't, I

1:05:01

wasn't aware of that. No, I wasn't either. So

1:05:04

it does kind of, you

1:05:06

know, really hurt them. Yeah. And

1:05:08

now depending on their

1:05:10

crime, nobody's probably crying

1:05:12

for them, but uh, it's

1:05:15

just may, it seems like almost like

1:05:17

another form of punishment, I guess. But

1:05:20

that's it buddy for another episode

1:05:22

of true crime all the time. So

1:05:24

for Mike and Gibby, stay safe and

1:05:26

keep your own time ticking. Yeah.

1:06:04

Shouldn't every vacation be a rewarding

1:06:06

experience? Verbo certainly thinks so. Which

1:06:09

is why, on top of host-free

1:06:11

stays and 24-7 support, Verbo now

1:06:14

offers one-key rewards. With

1:06:16

one-key, you'll earn rewards on eligible stays

1:06:18

that can be used for even more

1:06:20

stays. One-key. That's

1:06:23

something the other guys don't have. Make

1:06:25

your next vacation a little more rewarding.

1:06:28

Verbo Private Vacation Rentals. Relax.