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captivating stories together. Hello

1:05

everyone and welcome to episode 352 of

1:07

the True Crime All The Time Unsolved

1:09

podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me

1:11

as always is my partner in true

1:13

crime, Mike Gibson. Gibby, what is going

1:15

on with you, man? Man, 352. We're

1:19

getting there. The numbers. Once

1:21

we hit 400, remember I said I'd sit here and do

1:23

the show naked. Okay, well, we're ending

1:25

the podcast at 399 because I don't want to

1:28

see that. Push

1:31

through. You just wear some blinders or something, you know,

1:33

so you can't see. Hey, we

1:35

got so much out right now.

1:37

Saturday night we dropped a brand

1:39

new Patreon full episode and

1:41

it's on Christine Rauch. Troubled

1:44

childhood was adopted by

1:46

extended family. And then as an

1:48

adult, sought out her birth mother

1:51

and ended up killing her. It's

1:53

a wild story. It's really wild. And

1:55

then we have a new true crime all the

1:58

time out right now. On

2:00

Steven Todd Jenkins, this was a

2:02

man who was convicted of murdering

2:05

two bankers who seized his

2:07

family's farm after his

2:09

parents filed for bankruptcy, you know,

2:12

it was thought that he blamed them for

2:14

the breakup of the family and losing the

2:16

farm and all that. But there was a

2:18

real question as to whether, you

2:20

know, he was the killer or his father

2:23

was the killer. And I think you

2:25

could say there's kind of a twist. Yeah.

2:27

Depending on where your thoughts are. Yeah. There

2:29

really is. Let's go ahead

2:31

and give our shout outs for Patreon.

2:33

We had Jessica Staples. Hey, Staples, Tony

2:35

hunt. What's going on, honey? Ray B

2:38

jumped out of the highest level. What

2:40

up B art. Bellen. Hey, Bella, Nicole

2:42

Shepherd. What's going on, Shepherd? Jason Lunsman.

2:45

Ah, Jason, how are you? Ducky

2:47

Laird. Hey, there's a Ducky Laird.

2:49

Cornelia Gustafson. Cornelis.

2:52

Cornelia. Cornelia. Yeah.

2:55

Johanna Bergland jumped out of our

2:58

highest level. Hey, Bergland. Lucy. Good

3:00

old Lucy. Taylor Hudson. Hey,

3:03

Hudson. Mike Abbott. Well, thank you

3:05

Abbott. Mac, Mckanda. Ah,

3:08

just M.M. And last but

3:10

not least, Beth. Hey Beth. And then if we

3:12

go back into the vault, this

3:15

week we selected Jodi Eubank.

3:17

Thanks, Jodi. Yeah. Appreciate all the

3:19

support. We also had a great

3:22

PayPal donation from Charlene Brewer. Hey,

3:24

Charlene. So thank you to

3:26

everyone. All right, buddy. Are you ready to

3:28

get into this episode of True Crime All

3:30

The Time Unsolved? I am ready. We're

3:33

talking about the disappearance of Adam

3:35

Emery. And this is a little

3:37

bit of a different type of

3:39

case for us because Adam

3:41

Emery was convicted of second degree

3:43

murder for stabbing a young man

3:46

in the heart because he believed the

3:48

driver hit his vehicle in flat. Emery

3:50

and his wife disappeared on the day

3:52

he was convicted. His wife's

3:54

remains were found months later. But

3:57

Adam Emery is still considered a

3:59

fugitive from So,

4:01

like I said, a little different.

4:03

Normally, we're talking about people in

4:06

glowing terms, right? These

4:08

people who go missing or their

4:11

murders are unsolved. A

4:13

lot of them were such

4:15

great people and their friends

4:18

and family just raved about,

4:20

you know, how good they were and they

4:22

were doing great stuff for the world. Well,

4:24

here we're talking about a man convicted of

4:27

second degree murder. Yeah. Adam

4:31

Charles Emery was born on November 10th,

4:33

1962 in Kent

4:36

County, Rhode Island. Adam grew

4:38

up in a middle class family in

4:40

the city of Cranston, Rhode Island. He

4:43

graduated from Rhode Island College

4:45

and worked for a plastics

4:47

manufacturing company as a

4:49

customer service manager. He was

4:52

also in the National Guard, according

4:54

to the news outlet WJAR. Adam

4:57

met his wife, Elena, at a

4:59

local disco. Did you just go

5:01

to the discos? By the time

5:03

I was old enough to go really anywhere,

5:06

I think disco was kind of dead. So

5:08

you don't remember the disco duck or?

5:10

No. No, I know you

5:12

were there with your bell bottoms and your

5:14

platform shoes and your perm,

5:17

but I did not

5:19

make that scene. I might have been 10 years

5:21

old and 76, man, man, I could cut up

5:23

that floor. Elena Duraco

5:26

Emery was born in

5:28

Italy on March 13th, 1961. Elena's

5:32

family lived in Fort Nellie,

5:34

a farming village near Naples.

5:37

They immigrated to Rhode Island in 1968 for

5:39

better job opportunities. Elena's

5:43

mother worked in a soap factory

5:45

and her father was a construction

5:47

worker. They eventually purchased a

5:49

house in Cranston, which has a

5:51

larger Italian community. As

5:54

an adult, Elena did bookkeeping

5:56

for a local construction company

5:58

and was working earning

6:00

a college degree. In the late

6:03

1980s, Elena returned to Fornelli

6:05

to visit her family. Adam

6:07

did not go with her. Elena and

6:10

Adam got married in 1988. Multiple sources said

6:12

the young

6:14

couple was deeply in love with each

6:17

other and wanted to build a

6:19

good life together. They lived in

6:21

Warwick in an apartment inside

6:23

a multi-family home owned

6:25

by Elena's parents. They

6:28

both lived what were described as

6:30

normal lives. They had never been

6:32

in trouble with the law before.

6:34

So it sounds like things are

6:36

just going good. Nothing out

6:38

of the ordinary. No. If

6:41

you believe what people said,

6:44

they were deeply in love. They

6:46

were building this life together. They

6:49

didn't have long

6:53

rap sheets. They didn't have any rap sheets,

6:55

really. On August 30, 1990, Adam

6:59

and Elena went to the Rocky

7:01

Point amusement park in Warwick, the

7:04

dinner with Elena's sister and brother-in-law.

7:06

They sat in Adam's Ford Thunderbird,

7:09

eating clam cakes and chowder and

7:12

drinking beer. It was supposed to

7:14

be a celebration of the

7:16

Emery's second wedding anniversary. Clam

7:18

cakes and chowder. Sounds like something you would

7:20

eat. Oh, no, I love a

7:23

good chowder. I've never spent

7:25

time in the Northeast, but

7:28

I'd love to go for a

7:30

couple of reasons. Number one, you know,

7:32

the historic sites. Sure. But

7:34

number two, the food. You just want some lobster

7:37

rolls. I want some main lobster

7:39

rolls. Give me some chowder. I'm

7:41

all in. Just before 9 p.m.,

7:43

they were hit

7:46

by another vehicle, which left

7:48

a large dent in Adam's

7:50

Thunderbird. The car sped off

7:52

around a corner. And a hit

7:54

and run is never good. It's going to

7:56

ruin your night. Yeah. Now, obviously, it's worse if you

7:59

hit a pit. person and

8:01

then the car, you know, takes

8:03

off. But let's not discount

8:06

the fact that nobody wants

8:08

to have their car smashed in and then

8:11

the person not stopped to exchange

8:14

insurances. I'm pretty sure

8:16

someone hit your truck and didn't stop. You

8:18

would probably pursue. Yeah, you could just

8:20

take the probably out of there. So

8:23

Adam started up his car and

8:25

began pursuing the driver. And

8:28

it wasn't just him. I mean, he

8:30

was being urged on by, you know,

8:32

his passengers as well. When he

8:34

rounded the corner, he spotted a 1975 Ford

8:36

LTD in front of him. According

8:41

to the Washington Post, Elena shouted,

8:43

that's the car. Adam

8:45

followed the car out of the park

8:47

and through the streets of a residential

8:49

neighborhood. He later testified that

8:52

he did this to get the license

8:54

plate and report it to the police.

8:57

And I think a lot of people

8:59

could understand that thought, right?

9:02

Somebody did something they shouldn't have done. No,

9:05

hitting your car is one thing. We

9:07

all make mistakes, but hitting

9:09

your car and then

9:11

taking off. That's not a mistake.

9:13

No, that's a crime. Exactly. So

9:16

at the very least, you

9:18

would want to try to figure out who this

9:20

person is to be able to

9:23

go to the police and to do that,

9:25

you would need to try to get the

9:27

license plate, you know, at a minimum after

9:30

about two miles, the

9:32

Ford LTD either pulled

9:35

over voluntarily or was

9:37

forced to the side of the road by Adam. Okay.

9:40

So we're not sure which one, but those

9:42

are two very different things. It's

9:44

going to make the other driver act differently.

9:47

If he got forced off the road or

9:49

he just voluntarily pulled over to say, Hey

9:51

man, I didn't mean to hit your car versus

9:54

why'd you run me off the road? It's going to

9:57

be some aggressive things

9:59

happening. Adam got out

10:01

of the car with his knife

10:03

at Elena's urging. The driver

10:06

was 20 year old Jason Bass.

10:09

With him was his cousin Joshua

10:11

Post and another friend they picked

10:13

up on their way home. Jason was

10:15

born on July 22nd, 1970 and

10:19

grew up in Providence, Rhode Island. He

10:22

dropped out of school at the age of 16 and

10:25

worked a number of different jobs. At

10:27

the time of his death, he worked

10:29

as a food concession manager at Rock

10:31

Point. His dream was to

10:33

open his own restaurant one day.

10:36

So a dream that he shares with

10:38

you. I've heard you say that many

10:40

times that you wanna

10:42

open a restaurant called Gibby's.

10:45

It'd be Italian food too, because you know I'm Italian, I

10:47

don't know. And I can just picture it. All

10:50

of the menu items would be

10:53

spelled as you believe that they're

10:55

said. Absolutely. Not

10:57

correctly, it's just however you think that they're said.

11:00

Chicken parmigiano.

11:02

Similar to Adam, Jason was not

11:04

known as a troublemaker. Based

11:07

on his cousin's account of what happened, he

11:10

most likely spent his final moments

11:12

terrified and confused about what was

11:14

happening. Joshua recalled that

11:17

they saw the man chasing them

11:19

in his car. When they stopped, he

11:21

got out and approached the driver's

11:23

side window. Joshua recalled

11:25

as quoted by Unsolved Mysteries, he

11:28

got out of his car, yelling and

11:30

screaming that, we'll kick your butt, I'm

11:33

gonna kill you. These were major

11:35

fighting words. Unbelievably, this

11:37

guy was so mad and I've

11:39

never seen anybody madder than this.

11:42

So this was all according to Joshua.

11:44

So definitely some tempers are flaring or

11:47

flared. Yes, Jason

11:49

put his car in reverse to try

11:51

to get away. Adam held

11:53

on to the driver's door as

11:56

he reversed and soon stabbed

11:58

Jason in the heart. He

12:00

died within minutes. Joshua

12:03

Poe said in a 2017 interview with Eyewitness

12:05

News, Adam

12:08

came out of nowhere, pushed him,

12:11

and that was when he stabbed

12:13

him. So this went from

12:15

a hit and run, a

12:18

vehicle, striking a vehicle

12:20

and then running off, to

12:23

being chased down, road

12:25

rage, and then a

12:27

confrontation that ended with a

12:29

young man stabbed to death

12:32

in the heart. This got out

12:34

of hand very quickly. Oh yeah, I

12:36

mean none of this had to happen, right? No,

12:39

and if you

12:41

think about what Joshua

12:43

said, the way that Adam

12:47

was reacting as he was getting out of his

12:49

car, he was obviously very

12:51

mad. He was yelling, he was screaming,

12:54

and he said, I'm gonna kill you. Now,

12:57

that can often be a figure of speech,

13:00

but in this case, it turned out

13:02

to be prophetic. And

13:05

my thought is, Jason was probably

13:07

scared to death, the guys in the car

13:09

are scared to death, and I

13:11

don't know what the people in Adam's car

13:13

are thinking. Oh, but you got

13:15

a guy that's extremely upset, waving

13:17

around a knife. Why would you wanna

13:20

hang out there? You're gonna put your car in

13:22

reverse and try to get out of there. Oh, I

13:24

think as soon as you see that the guy has a knife,

13:26

you're gonna try to get away. Because

13:28

you don't know what his intentions

13:30

are, but obviously they're not good

13:32

from the way he's acting. People

13:34

in the neighborhood witnessed the chaotic scene

13:36

and they tried to help. Among

13:39

them was Rhode Island State

13:41

Police Detective, Kevin Hopkins. At

13:43

first, he thought he was investigating a

13:46

car accident, but he quickly realized it

13:48

was a murder. Hopkins told NBC

13:50

10, off in

13:52

the distance, I heard the distinct sound

13:54

of a car crash. I

13:56

drove up the street to help the people involved

13:58

in the accident. That's when I

14:01

just happened to come upon the murder of Jason

14:03

back when I got to the scene I saw

14:06

Jason bass's car up on top of

14:08

the lawn of this particular

14:10

house I got out of

14:12

my cruiser and I said has anyone been heard

14:15

and a woman says to me

14:17

he's been stabbed He's been stopped

14:20

Hopkins saw Jason on the ground bleeding

14:22

from a stab wound Adam

14:24

was sitting on the front steps of

14:26

a nearby house drinking water. He

14:29

had blood on his clothing He said

14:31

the Hopkins I did it Adam

14:33

was arrested by the Warwick police

14:36

So it wasn't like this guy

14:38

took off and ran Adam

14:41

he realized what he had done.

14:43

He sat down on the front steps

14:45

of a house drank some water and

14:48

Immediately told the police that he

14:51

did it. Yeah, it was me but what

14:53

makes this case especially tragic

14:56

is the fact that Jason

14:58

wasn't the person who hit

15:01

Adam's car that evening Detective

15:04

Hopkins told unsolved mysteries the

15:06

Ford LPD that was driven by Jason

15:09

bass Was not the

15:11

vehicle that hit Adam Emory's car They

15:14

took paint chips off of Adam's

15:16

car and they tested those

15:18

paint chips with the pain of Jason

15:21

bass's car improved

15:23

Conclusively that it was a

15:25

different vehicle that struck Adam

15:27

Emory's car that evening chase

15:30

the wrong individual And because

15:32

of that he killed somebody that had nothing to

15:34

do with the hit and run of his car Wow

15:37

Yeah, I think Wow is right My

15:40

thought is Adam Emory

15:42

realized he had done something

15:46

Extremely wrong right away But

15:48

my thought is when he got the news

15:50

that this is not even the guy that

15:53

hit his car He must have

15:55

felt even worse if he could

15:57

feel worse. Yeah, I'm sure Adam

16:00

did feel bad after he learned

16:02

that Jason Bass didn't hit his car.

16:05

Jason just saw somebody trying

16:07

to attack him and waving around

16:09

a knife and just wanted to get the heck out of there

16:12

because he had no idea why Adam was

16:14

confronting him. Yeah, it was

16:16

going to be tragic no matter

16:19

how this went down. But like

16:21

I said, it's even more tragic when you find

16:23

out that Jason Bass didn't have

16:25

anything to do with even hitting the car. No,

16:28

but Adam's wife seemed pretty

16:30

convinced it was that car. Well,

16:32

and we said it right.

16:34

She kind of urged him on and some of

16:37

the other passengers did as well. Adam

16:39

was charged with second degree murder. He

16:42

claimed he stabbed Jason in self-defense.

16:45

When Jason put the car in reverse,

16:47

Adam said he assumed it was an

16:50

attack. According to the Washington

16:52

Post, Adam said he thought Jason

16:54

was going to hit his brother-in-law

16:56

who was standing in front of his car. He

16:59

leaned into Jason's car to turn

17:01

off the ignition. Jason took

17:03

off backwards and dragged Adam 1300

17:05

feet. Adam

17:08

feared for his life and felt that

17:10

he had to make Jason stop the

17:12

car. Or let go of the steering

17:14

wheel or whatever you're holding onto. So you're not dragged.

17:17

Yeah, but I think the point

17:19

he's making is that he

17:22

believes Jason's going to run into

17:24

his brother-in-law. So if he just

17:27

lets go, how's he going to stop the car? Yeah,

17:29

that's a good point. Soon after the

17:31

murder, the two families had a

17:34

tense encounter in public. Cindy

17:37

Bass, Jason's sister-in-law went to a

17:39

store to purchase a suit for

17:42

Jason's burial. She told

17:44

the clerk it was for a family

17:46

member who was murdered and gave the

17:48

basic details of what happened. That

17:50

was when one of Elena's sisters who

17:52

happened to be in the store, Melinda

17:55

Apollonia, came forward and said,

17:58

Why don't you tell the truth? Your

18:00

son dragged my brother in law. That.

18:02

They tried to kill. Move. Okay,

18:05

What? Are the chances? Now.

18:08

I get it is probably pretty small

18:10

towns. But. What does the chances?

18:12

that. These. Two individuals are

18:14

in the same store. After.

18:17

This happens and they

18:19

get into this altercation.

18:21

man. At. A Be. Kind.

18:24

Of scary for other people in the store at

18:26

that moment. But. I think the other

18:28

thing that it does it shows you. Where.

18:32

Each. Key Am. Staying. right?

18:34

The. Jason Bass can. Is

18:37

hey Adam Emery? Killed.

18:39

Jason. That. I'm temp

18:42

is. Adam was feel

18:44

fighting for his life's. They. Were

18:46

trying to kill him. If. It wasn't

18:48

for. Jason. Dragon him. He.

18:50

Would add a stab him. True.

18:53

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thousand 2022 in May 2023. Potential

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savings will vary. Discounts not

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available in all states and situations. Adams

20:09

spent eight months in jail and was released

20:11

on bail in May 1991. The

20:15

Bennington Banner reported that he

20:17

spent his time incarcerated studying

20:19

Italian. That's a good thing. Learn

20:22

some Italian while you're in there. I don't know

20:24

what else he had to do. His

20:26

family reportedly called the police and

20:29

an Italian town that

20:31

contributes officers to Fornelli, the

20:33

farming village where Elena's parents

20:35

once lived. They complained

20:38

they were being treated unfairly

20:40

by Rhode Island prosecutors. They

20:42

didn't mention that Adam was charged with murder.

20:45

Instead, said he was in a fight

20:47

that resulted in injuries. The

20:49

police chief who spoke to the AP

20:52

about this later recanted his statement. But

20:54

I don't know what this call was supposed to do

20:56

for them. I don't know what the

20:58

police in a town

21:00

in Italy was going to do. They

21:03

weren't going to be able

21:05

to influence anyone in Rhode

21:07

Island or anything like that.

21:10

Before trial, Adam was offered a

21:13

manslaughter plea in exchange for

21:15

a 20-year sentence. But he

21:17

refused to accept the deal. You think you

21:19

can win in court

21:21

by claiming self-defense, but that's

21:23

a big risk. Well, it's like we always

21:25

talk about, right? The plea

21:28

deal versus going to

21:30

trial is always a gamble because

21:33

you just never know how a trial

21:35

is going to play out. You

21:38

could get off scot-free.

21:40

You could ultimately get more time

21:43

than what they offered you in the

21:45

plea deal. For the Washington Post,

21:48

a friend asked Adam if he would be

21:50

willing to take a plea bargain. Adam

21:52

responded, I don't think I did

21:54

anything wrong. My name would be

21:56

ruined. That's the problem with

21:59

Something like that.. Yeah, you'd. Think.

22:01

You didn't do anything wrong. But. Will

22:03

a jury think you did something wrong? Because.

22:06

That's all that really matters. But.

22:09

I do things. For. Descendants

22:11

When they believe that they they

22:13

didn't do anything wrong, it is

22:15

harder. To take up. You.

22:18

Know of a plea bargain

22:20

because they're admitting wrong doing.

22:23

You. Are going to be a convicted

22:25

felon and you are going to serve

22:27

time And first you. Adam.

22:29

Went to trial in November. Nineteen

22:31

Ninety Three. On. November ten,

22:33

his thirty first birthday. He.

22:35

Was convicted of second degree murder

22:38

for the death of Jason that.

22:41

The judge allowed him to remain

22:43

free on a two hundred and

22:45

seventy thousand dollar bond. Pending.

22:47

His sentencing hearing the following month.

22:50

In Rhode Island, there is no

22:52

mandatory sentence for second degree murder.

22:55

The. Judge could have given him life

22:57

in prison twenty years which was

22:59

the since proposed in the plea

23:01

deal or no prison time at

23:03

all. When. You're discounting on the

23:05

judge waking up. And a good mood

23:07

that day. As if he wakes up in

23:09

a bad mood. Really doesn't like

23:12

you to go bad. Wow.

23:14

That is such a huge difference.

23:17

A. Big span between. No.

23:19

Time at All to life in

23:21

prison. To. Anywhere in between. The

23:24

Bass family had to get a

23:26

police escort after the verdict was

23:28

read because one of the lane

23:31

his family members sounded expletives and

23:33

said we're going to get. According.

23:36

To The Washington Post. So.

23:39

Deftly some angry. Family.

23:41

Members at the trial. Well.

23:43

And I don't know that that's all

23:45

that unusual. A trial that

23:48

involves he knows someone's life

23:50

be being taken. There's.

23:52

Gonna be animosity. How. Kids are

23:54

not be. But. Here you know.

23:56

I think it's interesting that it's

23:59

Adams site. The family. You.

24:01

His wife's side of the family there are

24:03

the ones that are yelling at the the

24:05

best film. We're. Going to get shoot.

24:08

According to the prominent strewn, when

24:10

Elaine A. heard the verdict, she

24:13

whispered, it's my fault followed by.

24:15

I'm going to kill some.

24:18

There's held to be paid. Com a

24:20

strange thing to say The right? It's

24:22

my fault. But. Then after

24:24

that hussein. Gonna kill

24:26

somebody. It's a set. Of it's

24:29

your fault. Why think she

24:31

saying and I'm only guessing here

24:33

but it's my fault because she

24:35

was the one they're really urged

24:37

Adam my saying to get to

24:39

take is not year when he

24:41

got out of the car. But.

24:43

I grew here is kind of a string

24:45

statement to me. I'm. Also getting

24:48

the sense that. You. Know

24:50

a lane and her family or.

24:52

In a. Little hot headed. They're

24:55

not happy about this verdict. And

24:57

they're not shy about wasting as well

24:59

that that's the other thing you have.

25:01

A lot of people may have those

25:03

thoughts by to voice them to south

25:05

Them. And. Start. I'm starting to worry

25:07

that the Black Hand. Is. Going to

25:09

be called them. Are you never know? Alina

25:12

briefly spoke to Adam after the

25:14

verdict was read. Adam. And

25:17

Lane A left the courthouse around three

25:19

pm. About. Thirty minutes later,

25:21

they went to Kelly Sporting Goods

25:23

and France. Manager. Joe

25:25

Smith told the police that

25:28

Elaine A. was smiling and

25:30

talkative. They purchased sweatsuits, athletic

25:33

socks, and eighty pounds a

25:35

strap on exercise wait. Adam.

25:38

Was reportedly disturbed by the

25:40

two hundred dollar total. It's

25:43

a. Strange. Thing to

25:45

buy after your. Husband.

25:47

Was just. Found. Guilty. By.

25:49

Sounded strange that he's disturbed about

25:52

spending two hundred dollars when he

25:54

was just found guilty of second

25:56

degree murder. After this them

25:58

were seen eating. Burke

26:00

A. Good. I guess you gotta go somewhere.

26:03

After a murder conviction was has, you can

26:05

have it your way there. And. For

26:07

forty five, they were seen as

26:09

the Claiborne's Tell Bridge also known

26:11

as the Newport Bridge. A

26:14

Bob Narragansett Bay. This.

26:16

Bridge connect Newport to

26:18

Jamestown. Around for fifty.

26:21

Witnesses. Saw that Emrys on the

26:23

walkway of the bridge by site is

26:25

t they were gone. At. Some

26:27

point in the late afternoon or early. They.

26:30

Returned to the bridge and abandon

26:32

their car for unknown reasons. Around

26:35

seven fifteen pm. On.

26:37

November tenth, A bridge supervisor

26:39

and a state trooper found

26:41

an abandoned green Toyota Camry.

26:44

On. The bridge. The car was

26:46

blocking one boy. The. Car was

26:48

empty with the engine still run.

26:51

In the headlights on. Clothing.

26:53

Was folded up on the back seat. Task:

26:56

Cut up credit cards. And

26:58

a driver's license were found in the from.

27:01

Olean. As person heels were also

27:03

found in the car along with

27:05

the received from the sporting goods

27:07

store. Bridge. Supervisor Robert More

27:09

head toward unsolved mysteries that when

27:12

they looked at the vehicle, they

27:14

realize the car belonged to the

27:16

Emrys. The. Majority of people in

27:18

town knew who they were because of

27:20

the trunk. I'm assuming the trial was

27:22

a big deal. Yeah. I think. It.

27:24

Was the big media circus at that

27:26

time for that town. But. I

27:29

can want to take stock of this.

27:31

see. The you have the

27:33

car abandoned, it's running the headlights or

27:35

on. Is. Really? What's inside

27:37

the car? That. Really kind

27:40

of piqued my interest. Is

27:42

cash. The credit cards are caught

27:44

up. They. Left their driver's

27:46

license. Elaine A left

27:48

her purse and they also

27:50

leftists receipts from the sporting

27:53

goods store. My first thought.

27:55

Was. That. It. Seems

27:57

state seemed arranged.

28:00

Yeah because the receipts gonna show. These.

28:02

Weights what they bought right? Yeah, that

28:04

was my my first thought. Initially,

28:07

investigators assumed Adam and Lane

28:09

toes in their lives by

28:11

jumping off the bridge to

28:13

get. The. Bridges two hundred

28:15

and sixteen seed above the water,

28:17

meaning the risk of us a

28:19

tower these far. However, the

28:21

police were curious as to how

28:23

elaine it's and skill the highway

28:25

one. With. The exercise wage

28:28

without any witnesses seeing her.

28:30

She apparently had trouble just carrying one

28:32

of the bags out of the store.

28:35

That. Would would make you wonder, right? If

28:37

she could barely carry one of the bags. How.

28:40

She got a scale this railing. With.

28:42

All this weight or now. The. Police soon

28:44

began to suspect the Emrys were a

28:46

lot. And the car was left

28:48

behind to throw them off their true. They.

28:51

Wanted to flee town to avoid

28:53

a lengthy prison sentence for. Still,

28:56

Authorities wants the most extensive

28:58

search in state history to

29:01

look for their bodies in

29:03

the bay. Investigators used sonar.

29:05

Maps. Of the bay floor and

29:08

a search dog but found nothing.

29:10

I'm just speaking. They. Made

29:12

the decision, If you

29:14

believe. That. They parked the

29:16

car, their got out. Scale.

29:18

The rail and jobs. After

29:20

he was found guilty that day, But.

29:23

He didn't know what his sentence was gonna be as.

29:25

Know. Him as as we said it could have

29:27

been. Nothing and on. I don't

29:29

think that's gonna happen. You. Would

29:32

think at the very least he was going to get to

29:34

twenty. To seems a little. Premature.

29:37

Well. But once, he's good

29:39

since. He's. Gone. He's

29:42

taken straight. Into. Custody

29:44

right is not going to have the

29:46

chance right now is free on bond

29:48

so it out. But together.

29:50

Conversation before you went. To.

29:53

Trial so hated doesn't go the way

29:55

we wanted to. When.

29:57

They released me. on

29:59

bond Until i get sentence

30:01

the stop off the sporting good store

30:03

and get some body weights and jump

30:06

off that bridge together you with me

30:08

on that. Well they could

30:10

have had it in the car afterwards but

30:13

to me gives you know i can

30:15

see why the police kind of quickly

30:18

switch gears into thinking that maybe

30:20

this was a setup because.

30:23

I can't i kind of thought that

30:25

to initially leaving the

30:28

the receipt out where it can be seen

30:31

right. Can it really to

30:33

me tips it off if

30:35

you're gonna in your life why would you take

30:37

the time to cut your credit cards yeah what's

30:39

it gonna matter you care someone takes your credit

30:42

cards and racks up some bills.

30:44

Yeah i thought that was strange as well. On

30:48

november thirteen family and friends

30:50

received six individually addressed suicide

30:52

notes from adam and elena.

30:55

The letters were mailed before they were

30:57

lasting a lot. The police believe

31:00

it was part of their roots

31:02

but the family did not these

31:04

letters supported their believe that adam

31:06

and elena chose in their lives

31:08

after he was convicted. The underwater

31:10

search was called off on

31:13

november seventeen the police

31:15

eventually issued a warrant for

31:17

adam's arrest for violating bail.

31:20

On november nineteen attorney general jeff

31:22

pines spoke with w j a

31:24

r t v about the case

31:26

saying that the evidence suggested the

31:28

two were still alive. He told

31:30

the outlet it was inconsistent that

31:33

they would eat a meal and

31:35

then in their life. He said

31:37

i've seen a lot more instances where

31:39

people have taken off to avoid prison

31:42

rather than harm themselves that's

31:44

why the state police are pursuing. Land

31:47

investigation is well as the

31:50

ocean investigation that they had

31:52

conducted. I don't

31:55

really understand the not

31:57

eating a meal before you chose.

32:00

to end your life? Yeah. I

32:02

didn't get that part. No, I could see

32:04

somebody wanting to eat a meal before they... Let's

32:07

have a last meal. Yeah. Sit and

32:09

talk. Yeah, have a last meal with your spouse and have

32:12

that private moment before you decide to end your

32:14

life. I... That could happen.

32:16

Pine called the letters inconclusive and

32:19

said Adam and Elena did

32:21

not use the word suicide. Instead,

32:24

they apologized to individual family

32:26

members about past events. He

32:29

said they cut both ways, those

32:31

letters. I don't think they're necessarily

32:33

indicative of having committed

32:35

suicide, nor are they indicative of

32:38

having taken off on their own.

32:40

So basically, he's saying they don't prove

32:43

anything one way or the other. Just kind

32:45

of broad statements? Yeah, I mean, and I

32:48

could understand that. I don't

32:50

think anything we've talked about proves

32:53

anything one way or another

32:55

or is conclusive. Now, it

32:58

can lead you to believe one

33:01

avenue is more plausible than the

33:03

other. And that's kind of the way

33:05

I feel about it. Yeah, you can

33:07

be influenced based on how

33:09

you interpret those letters and the events. Well,

33:12

and you can understand why the family

33:14

would believe that they did

33:16

end their lives. Or maybe

33:19

the family's already knew their

33:21

plans, but didn't want to

33:24

disclose any information. Want

33:26

to participate in helping the plan?

33:29

Or just not revealing it. If

33:32

that's the way it went. In December,

33:34

the families hired a diving team to

33:36

search the bay for five days. They

33:38

found no relevant evidence in the bay.

33:41

On December 13, 1993,

33:44

prosecutors began court proceedings

33:47

to seize Elena's family's home, which

33:50

was used to secure Adam's bail.

33:53

Detective Captain Frank Muzaral

33:55

told the AP that they hoped

33:58

Adam and Elena would realize the

34:00

harm they were doing to their families and

34:02

would turn themselves in. I bet

34:04

the family wasn't, uh, real pleased with the

34:06

police at that time. Trying to take

34:08

their home. Well, I'm sure they

34:10

weren't, but what did they think was going

34:13

to happen? I mean, they use

34:15

the home to secure the bail. So

34:18

either they had no

34:20

knowledge of what Adam and

34:22

Elena were going to do, or they did,

34:26

but they thought that the police would

34:29

believe they were dead and

34:31

therefore wouldn't come after the home. It's

34:33

gotta be one of the other, right? Cause

34:35

you ain't putting up your family home with

34:38

the understanding that you're going to

34:40

lose it. In late 1993, detective

34:44

Kevin Hopkins from the state police

34:47

recalled the video of Adam and

34:49

Elena speaking briefly after the conviction,

34:52

their conversation was not audible. So

34:55

he showed the video to a person

34:57

who was hearing impaired and could read

34:59

lips. Based on this

35:01

person's interpretation of the video, Elena

35:04

said, we will do what we

35:06

originally said, you promised me we

35:09

should have done this before. So

35:11

that's a very interesting set

35:14

of statements. Yeah. But what does

35:16

it mean? Well, you can take it

35:18

a number of different ways. You

35:20

can take it as they planned all

35:23

of this out. What they, they

35:25

put into motion, which was

35:27

either taking their lives

35:30

or making it look like they

35:33

did, but going on the run and

35:35

her saying, we should have

35:37

done this before the trial, kind of something you

35:39

alluded to. Right. So if

35:42

this person is correct, it

35:44

indicates that, you know, they already had

35:46

a plan in place and like

35:48

I said, the plan could have been a

35:51

suicide pact or a plan

35:53

to flee the state, but Adam

35:55

and Elena's families were insistent that

35:57

they died of suicide and.

36:00

their bodies were in the back. And

36:02

again, my thought keeps going

36:04

back to either the

36:07

families had no knowledge of

36:10

any plan that Adam

36:13

and Elena concocted beforehand,

36:16

or some of the family

36:18

knew about the plan, but thought that

36:20

the police would view it a certain way.

36:23

As in they had taken their own lives. Elena's

36:26

sister, Maria Williams told Newsweek when

36:28

the verdict came that killed them,

36:31

Adam could not live with being known

36:33

as a murderer. Well, and he

36:36

made statements that when the reason he

36:38

didn't want to take the plea deal, because

36:40

he couldn't have his name

36:43

be muddied like that. It

36:45

was reported that Elena blamed

36:47

herself because she encouraged Adam

36:49

to pursue Jason that night.

36:52

Elena's sister, Melinda told the

36:54

AP that Adam was confident

36:56

he'd be acquitted. Melinda

36:59

said he didn't die from the jump

37:01

from the bridge. He died when he

37:03

heard the verdict and Elena died

37:05

with him. The jump was

37:07

just carrying out something that had

37:09

already happened. I mean, look,

37:11

if you really felt that

37:14

this was devastating to your

37:16

family name, your wife, and

37:19

that there was no way you were going

37:21

to be able to survive in prison, no

37:24

matter what the length of time that

37:26

sentence would be, maybe that was

37:28

your plan to end your life. So you

37:30

didn't have to go through all that.

37:33

But does it seem strange to you

37:35

that Elena would be part of that

37:37

plan? She's not facing

37:39

prison. So it

37:42

would have to be her not

37:44

wanting to be alive

37:47

without him. Yeah. Maybe

37:49

they just loved each other so much. Kind

37:52

of like the Romeo and Juliet,

37:54

right? You know, if I can't be with you,

37:56

I don't want to be. Is

37:58

that how Shakespeare wrote it? To be. not

38:00

to be, that's the question. I'm not sure that's

38:02

how he wrote it at all. A

38:05

federal arrest warrant was issued against

38:08

Elena in February 1994, charging

38:11

her with unlawful flight to

38:13

avoid prosecution about six

38:15

months later on August 30, 1994. The

38:19

human skull was found in the bay

38:21

near the Claiborne Pell Bridge.

38:24

A small fishing boat caught the skull

38:26

in its nets. It was

38:29

transported to the state medical examiner for

38:31

testing, and authorities sought

38:33

dental records for identification. Such

38:36

a bizarre thing to catch in your nets. Yeah,

38:38

I'm sure fishermen catch all kinds

38:40

of strange things, license

38:42

plates, things thrown over the bridge.

38:44

I don't know how many times

38:46

they catch a human skull. On

38:49

September 9th, state

38:52

medical examiner Dr. Elizabeth

38:54

Lopasaba confirmed the

38:56

skull was the remains of Elena.

39:00

She used dental records and x-rays

39:02

and described it as an absolute

39:04

100% identification. But

39:08

she couldn't determine the cause of death

39:10

because there were no injuries to the

39:12

skull. And it's pretty tough,

39:14

right? When all you have is

39:16

a skull, if there's not a bullet

39:19

hole in the skull, you

39:21

don't have much to work with. No, you do not. Elena's

39:24

family told the press that this

39:27

discovery confirmed their long-held

39:29

beliefs. And I

39:31

can absolutely understand why they would

39:34

say that, why they would think that. If

39:37

they truly believed them from the very beginning,

39:39

that both Adam

39:42

and Elena jumped from the bridge,

39:44

the discovery of the skull would

39:46

kind of be validation. Oh

39:49

yeah, this is what we've been telling you. And

39:51

their thought would have to be, well, they

39:53

just haven't found anything

39:55

to conclusively prove that

39:59

Adam jumped as well. But they're going to

40:01

write just a matter of time. They're gonna

40:03

find something. However, Detective

40:05

Kevin Hopkins announced that Adam

40:07

was still considered a fugitive

40:10

from justice later that month

40:12

the leg and hip bone were also found in

40:14

the Bay a Fisherman tossed

40:17

the leg bone overboard but

40:19

turned the hip bone over to the state police

40:22

Divers only had to search the water for about

40:24

10 minutes to find the leg

40:27

Kind of strange to keep the one bone, but

40:30

not the other one. Yeah, I thought so as well according

40:33

to unsolved mysteries One

40:35

of the bones had a fragment of a

40:37

sock stuck to it that matched

40:39

those purchased by the Emory's at the

40:42

sporting goods store on the day of

40:44

their disappearance The police didn't

40:46

make a comment on whether they could be

40:48

the remains of Adam or Elena But

40:52

now I'm sure the families at that

40:54

time thinking okay This might be

40:56

the proof we need to show that

40:59

Adam killed himself as well now

41:01

I'm no expert, but my thought

41:03

was that you would think

41:06

Experts would at least be able to

41:09

tell whether a leg or

41:11

hip bone maybe not

41:13

specifically came from One

41:16

of the Emory's but was either

41:18

male or female more likely to

41:20

come from Adam or Elena based

41:23

on length and Size

41:25

and and all that. Yeah, I

41:27

think you should be able to do that in

41:30

November 1994 the

41:32

AP reported that two leg bones pulled from

41:34

the Bay in July were

41:36

not the remains of Adam Emory

41:39

a specialist compared the bones to a 1991

41:42

x-ray of Adams and Determined

41:44

that there was no match However,

41:47

the possibility that the bones were

41:49

Elena's were not ruled out and

41:52

again to me that seems strange,

41:54

but maybe I'm missing something

41:56

not having the the right

41:58

medical knowledge And maybe

42:01

they didn't have the complete

42:03

bones either. We don't know. To make

42:05

that determination. Yes. Maybe it

42:07

was part of the bone. Unsolved Mysteries

42:09

reported that the DNA sample from

42:12

the bone was compared to Elena's

42:14

mother and sister and

42:16

declared a match. So this

42:18

just confirms what we already knew about

42:20

Elena. That she was dead.

42:23

But it doesn't shed any light on Adam. In

42:26

2010, Adam

42:28

Emery was added to the FBI's most wanted list.

42:31

That's a list you don't want to be on.

42:33

No. No. I know that's the

42:35

reason why you refuse to go into the

42:38

post office. You always make me go

42:40

in there. I don't want to see my picture. The

42:42

Rhode Island State Police worked

42:45

with the FBI in 2016

42:48

to create an aged enhanced image

42:50

of Adam. On January 2, 2017,

42:53

the FBI posted on

42:55

Twitter to remind the public that he

42:58

is still on their most wanted list.

43:01

There was no new break in the

43:03

case, but the FBI emphasized that tips

43:05

are welcome. Several sources have

43:07

reported that Adam may

43:09

have traveled to Florida or Italy where

43:11

he has family. Jason Bass's

43:14

family told Fox 25 that

43:16

there was a sighting of Adam on a train

43:18

in Paris. Adam is

43:21

considered armed and dangerous. Now

43:23

I want to go back to the time that he's

43:25

been in jail. We

43:29

mentioned that he

43:31

was studying Italian. Was

43:34

that somehow part of

43:36

his master plan? We

43:38

know Adam's family called that

43:40

Italian town. Like you

43:43

said, he practiced and learned Italian

43:45

while he was in prison. And

43:48

maybe they had connections in

43:50

that town or village in Italy

43:52

that helped him hide. Or

43:54

Elena's family because they had once

43:57

lived there. Now, the

43:59

findings... of Elena and

44:02

the determination that she was

44:04

deceased. Does that make

44:07

it less plausible that her family would

44:09

try to help Adam out in any

44:12

way? I think so. To me

44:14

it does. Yeah. But who knows,

44:16

man, this is such a confusing case.

44:19

It really is. I

44:21

do think that the

44:24

finding of her body, to me,

44:26

makes it less likely that,

44:29

at least on the part of Elena's

44:31

family, there was some grander

44:33

plan, some knowledge

44:36

that they had. Right. Again,

44:38

let's not forget they put up their house

44:41

for his bail. So why would they

44:43

do that if they knew he was going to

44:45

skip? Now

44:47

I'm sure we'll talk about it, but it could

44:49

have been that Elena's death

44:52

was accidental as part

44:54

of them trying to go through

44:56

with this ruse. Possible,

45:00

but I don't know how plausible. Exactly.

45:03

But if Elena died and Adam

45:05

didn't, then what does that mean?

45:07

And that's something we'll have to consider. Raymond

45:10

Bass, Jason's brother, told Fox 25 in

45:12

2017, he

45:15

believes Adam is still alive saying, "'I

45:18

just have a hunch. I feel in my

45:20

gut.' They had someone waiting for them

45:22

on the other side of the bridge. They

45:25

left it there to make it look like they

45:27

jumped, to make it look like

45:29

suicide." And that's what I

45:31

think a lot of people believe, maybe

45:34

still believe. But one popular

45:36

theory is that Adam did jump

45:39

off the bridge, but he

45:41

survived the fall and made it

45:43

to shore. A second theory is

45:45

that he pushed Elena off

45:47

the bridge and then escaped alone.

45:50

Maybe she jumped seconds

45:53

before him and he said, "'I don't want

45:55

to do this.'" Got cold feet.

45:57

And said he couldn't do it. And

45:59

then obviously, Obviously there's the

46:02

other theory which friends

46:04

and family of the Emory's

46:07

believe, and that's that they jump

46:09

together, and it's just that

46:11

Adam's remains have not yet been found.

46:14

That's very possible. Well, I'm

46:17

going to throw it out there. I think they're all possible.

46:19

Yeah. Angelina Derocco,

46:21

Elena's mother, told the AP

46:23

in 1994 that she

46:25

was certain they were in the bay saying they

46:28

wanted to die together. They got

46:30

married so they could stay together. My

46:33

daughter is under the water. You

46:35

can bet your life on it. April

46:37

Shaw, a Coast Guard Petty Officer,

46:39

told Newport this week in 2020

46:41

that most people who

46:44

jump in the Narragansett

46:46

Bay are found immediately

46:48

or within a few days. She

46:51

said it was improbable for a

46:53

body to disappear without a trace.

46:55

So that just adds another twist,

46:57

right? Right, but improbable,

47:00

not impossible. Yeah. Just

47:03

enough to say, we can't

47:06

say for sure. She told the

47:08

outlet, this is the first time I'm

47:10

hearing about something like that happening in

47:12

this area. I would say

47:14

this is very out of the ordinary, but

47:16

hitting the water from that height and that

47:19

speed, you are probably

47:21

approaching terminal velocity

47:24

at impact. They're hitting concrete,

47:26

basically. Is it possible?

47:28

Yes. Is it likely? No.

47:31

You are probably going to have broken legs,

47:34

arms, or cracked ribs. It

47:36

would be very difficult for someone to

47:38

then swim to shore. So then

47:40

it takes you back to, could someone

47:43

second guess themselves and not

47:45

jump when their spouse jumps? Or

47:47

like you mentioned, could it be the

47:49

fact that, hmm, you know, it's going to look

47:51

good? If I push her, they

47:54

find that body. Meanwhile, I go

47:56

this direction. And maybe

47:59

Adam thought that... that it would

48:01

be easier for him by

48:03

himself to get away. Or

48:05

to your point, if they find

48:07

her body, they'll just assume I'm dead

48:10

too. You could go a bunch

48:12

of different ways. And I think it's part

48:14

of why this is such an interesting case.

48:17

In 2020, the FBI Boston

48:19

division told NBC 10, they

48:21

still received tips about Adam

48:23

Emery on a regular basis.

48:26

Spokeswoman, Kristen Satera wrote in

48:28

an email, no matter

48:30

how long it takes, the FBI

48:32

will continue to work with our

48:35

law enforcement partners and following every

48:37

lead until we can locate fugitive

48:39

Adam Emery or his remains and

48:42

provide his victim's family with some

48:44

much needed closure. As of

48:47

February, 2024, Adam Emery's remains have

48:51

not been found and he's not

48:53

been arrested. That's why this

48:55

thing is still unsolved. Adam

48:57

was 31 when he went

49:00

missing. He'd be 61 years

49:02

old today. At the time

49:04

of his disappearance, Adam was described

49:06

as six foot one with black

49:09

hair, blue eyes and weighing 195

49:11

pounds. Do

49:13

you think if you were Adam

49:16

and you chose to, either

49:19

you got scared when

49:21

Elena jumped or you pushed her and

49:24

then went on the run, always looking

49:26

behind you, wondering if they

49:28

are gonna find me for the last

49:30

30 years, is that the

49:32

life that you really wanted or would you better or

49:35

would you have been better off just taking

49:38

your sentence and maybe it

49:40

was gonna be 20, maybe it was gonna be 30

49:42

years with the chance of parole. She'd

49:44

still be alive, you'd be getting

49:46

out about now instead of

49:48

being on the run. No, I think

49:50

most people would say they would

49:53

rather not served any time.

49:55

Yeah. I don't know how I would

49:58

answer that because I would never. put

50:00

myself in that position. Sure. But

50:03

you said something that I think comes

50:05

up a lot, which is, you know,

50:07

kind of what is it like to live your life

50:10

on the run? Always looking

50:12

over your shoulder, thinking that,

50:14

you know, that next knock on

50:16

the door is going to be

50:18

the police. Now does that

50:21

worry kind of go down as

50:24

the years go by? It's been

50:26

30 years. At a certain point,

50:28

do you stop kind of worrying

50:31

so much? I'm not saying

50:33

that, you know, you want

50:35

your picture in the local newspaper. I'm just

50:37

saying, do you stop thinking

50:40

about it every second of every day?

50:42

I think you probably do. I

50:45

think your confidence builds year after

50:47

year. Yeah, you just get stronger.

50:50

But then, you know, I mean, I remember we did that

50:52

case a few years ago about the

50:55

elderly couple sitting on their front porch.

50:58

Here comes the police down their

51:00

driveway. They finally got arrested

51:02

for something they both did way, way.

51:05

Yeah, yeah. And they finally caught up to

51:07

them. So it can happen.

51:09

But yeah, no, I think you're right. I think you get

51:11

a little more confident and

51:14

not worry as much. But

51:16

if Adam is alive, then

51:18

that means, you know, he's been

51:20

free for 30 years. Yeah. Deep

51:23

down, if you asked him, if

51:26

you were able to ask him,

51:28

would you rather have spent the

51:30

last 30 years in prison or

51:33

the last 30 years doing whatever the hell

51:35

you've been doing? I think most

51:38

people, if they were being completely

51:40

honest, would choose

51:42

the second one. Yeah. Now, I don't know

51:45

how that fits in with the death of

51:47

his wife, right? You know, did

51:49

he kill her? Did they both

51:51

jump and they're both dead? Did

51:54

he survive the fall, which seems to

51:56

be pretty unlikely based on the hitting

51:58

of the concrete. Yeah, and I

52:00

think if he did survive the fall, because

52:03

of the amount of damage it would have

52:05

done to him, they would have

52:07

found him in the hospital somewhere. Yeah, he

52:09

wasn't just going to walk away from that.

52:11

Right. And he could have

52:14

jumped in whatever reason.

52:17

30 years later, no one's found any part

52:20

of his body. Yeah, there are a

52:22

number of possibilities. And he

52:24

could be listening to this podcast right

52:26

now, sitting in a

52:28

small village in Italy, eating

52:32

Italian delicacies. I have no

52:34

idea. Could be. But

52:37

isn't that what makes

52:39

cases like this so interesting,

52:41

so mysterious? Yeah, I

52:43

think if they would have never

52:45

found Elena Skoll, the

52:48

thought process on this one would be, they're

52:50

on the run. Both of them

52:52

together. Yes, absolutely. That fact

52:55

that they found her,

52:57

and we know that she's

53:00

deceased, really opens

53:02

up a lot of different

53:05

possibilities. But they all

53:07

involve only Adam. Yeah.

53:10

Because we know Elena died.

53:14

And how tragic for everybody, right? I mean, for

53:17

the victim's family. Not

53:20

being able to see Adam

53:23

serve the time for what he did. To

53:26

Jason. Yeah. Yeah. And then

53:28

you gotta feel for Elena's family.

53:31

Yeah, if they had no knowledge of anything

53:34

and lost their house because they put

53:36

their house up for his bail.

53:39

Yeah, and then their daughter. And

53:41

then they found out they lost their

53:43

daughter. It's just, and that's the

53:45

thing with some of these cases, most of

53:47

these cases, nobody comes

53:49

out unscathed. Right. You

53:51

know, everybody's hurt. In some

53:54

former fashion. But if

53:57

you have any information about Adam Emory,

54:00

contact the Rhode Island State Police at

54:02

401-444-1000. This

54:07

information is listed on Adam

54:09

Emory's page on the NamUs

54:11

website. So that's it for

54:13

our episode on the

54:15

disappearance of Adam Emory.

54:18

Now I think we've gone through the scenario.

54:21

I don't even know if I can really

54:24

place them correctly on the

54:26

plausibility meter. I don't

54:29

think I have enough information. No. And

54:32

I think that's what makes this case so

54:35

intriguing. I think a lot

54:38

of people point to the fact that,

54:40

well, they haven't found any

54:42

of his bones. But what does that

54:44

mean? They haven't found all of her

54:46

bones, as far as I know. Should

54:49

they have found some of his? Okay, some

54:51

people have said yes, they should have, but

54:54

I don't know if that's 100% true.

55:00

I think you can say, look, water's

55:02

mysterious. Yeah, and you can make the

55:04

case for a number of different scenarios.

55:07

We've got some voicemails, Gibbs. You want to check those out?

55:09

Let's hear them. What's going on, fellas? This

55:11

is Coyote. What do you want to say? Love

55:13

the show. I am

55:16

a travel and diesel

55:18

mechanic for a local company out of

55:20

Earlinger, Kentucky. And

55:23

I listen to quite a bit in

55:26

a day, as you can imagine.

55:28

Probably my third or

55:30

fourth go around listening to solved

55:33

and unsolved. And

55:35

just want to say, gimme,

55:39

you're my man. Keep it up. In giving

55:41

all the way. And Mike, I

55:44

don't understand how you can support the old

55:46

Ohio State puck eyes, but yet you

55:49

can love the Wildcats, even though they're

55:52

pretty horrible down here in northern

55:54

Kentucky. So

55:56

anyway, just figured

55:58

out that should show you guys some love. and

56:00

appreciate all you guys do. Yeah,

56:04

that's a mystery. My Wildcats, man,

56:06

they are mysterious as well. They're

56:09

so up and down. Yeah.

56:11

Beat teams that they, they probably shouldn't beat and

56:13

then they lose to teams they probably shouldn't lose

56:15

to, but that's sports, man. That's just how sports

56:18

works. I want to redo your studio, man. Pull

56:20

that UK stuff off the wall. Never,

56:23

never. But the way it happened

56:26

was just because, you know, part

56:28

of my family is from Kentucky,

56:30

apart from Ohio. I even

56:32

root for some Tennessee teams because I have, you

56:34

know, a family from Tennessee, so that's how you

56:36

are. That's how I am. Yeah, but thanks for

56:38

the voicemail. Hey, Mike. Hey, Gibby.

56:41

Anyways, I was just listening to the,

56:43

uh, pass incident, the Russian one. Anyways,

56:46

from what I was led to believe, one

56:49

of the theories was that they had a

56:51

makeshift stove to keep their tent warm. And,

56:53

uh, it wasn't very good. And it was

56:55

just kind of, you know, put together with

56:57

straps of metal and whatnot. And

57:00

from what, from what I understood was, well,

57:02

from one of the main theories, but was

57:05

that they, uh, they had lit a fire

57:07

into it and it had filled the tent

57:09

with smoke and nobody could see to get

57:11

out the zipper and they

57:13

were suffering from smoke inhalation. And so

57:16

they decided to cut the tent open

57:18

to escape the fumes. Anyways,

57:20

I don't know. It's a super, super like

57:22

mysterious case. I've listened to it multiple times.

57:24

Loved the episodes you guys did, man. You

57:27

guys did a great job on this one.

57:29

You guys made me think of some other

57:31

theories that I never even really thought of.

57:34

Anyways, love what you guys do.

57:36

Keep the, keep your own time

57:38

ticking and team birdie all the way.

57:41

So see you later. Hey, you

57:43

know, the problem I have with that theory is

57:46

that's the case. Why would you

57:48

run so far away from that tent? You

57:50

know, you're on, you're packed on snow. Why

57:52

would you run as far as

57:55

they did? Well, and the other

57:57

thing that I was thinking is wouldn't

57:59

you. realize that the tent

58:01

is filling with smoke very

58:04

quickly. Yeah, I would think you

58:06

would. And have time to get out before

58:08

the whole thing was filled with smoke. But

58:11

again, I don't think you

58:13

can discount any theories

58:16

and you can't really prove

58:19

any theories. You know, I had

58:21

some people write in that they

58:23

believed it was a meteor because

58:26

of the lights and the heat and

58:28

some of that. I mean,

58:30

he's right. It is such a mysterious

58:32

case. It really is. Where he was

58:34

wrong was that whole team Fergie theory

58:36

thing. Is that where he lost you

58:38

on that one? Yeah, I don't understand

58:40

that. It does not compute. Yeah, you

58:42

don't hear it very often. No,

58:45

we appreciate the voicemail. We do. That is

58:47

it for another episode of True Crime All

58:49

The Time Unsolved. So for Mike and Gibby,

58:52

stay safe and keep your own time ticking.

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