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captivating stories together. Hello

1:05

everyone and welcome to episode 358 of

1:07

the True Crime All the Time Unsolved

1:09

podcast. I'm Mike Ferguson and with me

1:11

as always is my partner in true

1:14

crime, Mike Gibson. Give me, how are

1:16

you? Hey, I'm doing good. How about you? I'm

1:18

doing very well. And we talked about this

1:21

on Patreon, but my wife's on vacation. She's

1:24

a teacher, so she's on spring

1:26

break. Of course I'm not on vacation.

1:28

You and I still have to work. And

1:30

so she's in sunny

1:32

Florida and I'm up here dealing

1:34

with bad weather in Ohio.

1:36

Yeah. Wind, rain. Possible

1:39

tornadoes. Maybe snow tomorrow

1:42

morning. That's so unbelievable.

1:46

Let's go ahead and give our Patreon shout

1:48

outs. We had Caitlin Chacos. Hey, Caitlin. Sue.

1:51

What's going on, Sue? Khalil Jones.

1:53

Yeah, there's Khalil. Jillian Ogilvy. Ah,

1:56

Ogilvy. Riz. What's going on,

1:58

Riz? Hey, thanks

2:00

Luca. Scott R you

2:30

know when you said mic on

2:32

mute I should not have said anything. It's been like

2:34

mic on mute. Get it? Oh,

2:43

I was doing that. I was all you. I gotcha.

2:45

You're good. You're good. So

2:52

we have an episode out right now on true crime all

2:54

the time on Sammy. I'll mark and you know, this is

2:56

a fascinating case. Sammy met

2:58

a woman named Nadine. Abras

3:02

through an online dating website. He lived in New York.

3:04

She lived in Wales. The two

3:06

kind of fell in love long distance. And

3:12

the problem is he was very

3:14

controlling and it turned bad. It did

3:16

real bad, but that's out now. Make sure you

3:18

check it out. All

3:23

right, buddy. Are

3:25

you ready to get into this episode of

3:27

true crime all the time on salt? I

3:30

am ready. We're talking about Bobby Fuller, who

3:32

was a rising star in the music world during the 1960s.

3:35

And he

3:37

died under mysterious circumstances just

3:40

before it was said he

3:42

was probably going to break out, right? He was getting ready to start a

3:44

solo career. It was

3:46

thought that, you know, he could have

3:48

been a really big deal. Remember when I had that boy

3:50

band that I was in? Yep. And

3:54

we thought we were going to be pretty big.

3:56

Yeah. It's called 32 degrees. I think is what it was.

4:00

Yeah, because we were like, Filled. But

4:04

this is a case like

4:06

many unsolved where, you know, the police

4:08

kind of have one theory, but

4:11

the family doesn't believe it.

4:13

They have a differing opinion. They do.

4:16

On what happened to their loved

4:18

one. Robert Gaston Fuller was

4:20

born on October 22nd, 1942 in Goose Creek,

4:22

Texas. Bobby

4:26

was only 23 years old when he

4:28

died. And I know a lot of

4:30

people die young, but it

4:32

does seem as though people

4:35

in the music industry over

4:37

the years have died young.

4:40

Yeah. Remember that time we did the one

4:42

podcast about the people

4:44

who died age 27. Oh,

4:47

you're talking about the Morrison's and the

4:49

Joplin. Yeah. And I don't think we

4:52

did a whole podcast on that. I remember we talked

4:54

about it. We might've talked about it, but there was

4:56

no entire podcast on that.

4:59

But yeah, it just seems like a lot of music

5:02

stars had died in early age. Now,

5:05

some of that's attributable to the, to

5:07

their lifestyle and drugs and choices and

5:09

things like that. Bobby's parents

5:12

were Lawson and Lorraine Fuller. Bobby

5:15

had an older brother from Lorraine's

5:17

previous marriage named Jack and a

5:19

younger brother named Randall. Bobby

5:22

first became interested in music at the

5:24

age of four. And it was

5:26

said he was able to play the

5:28

piano by age five. Oh, that's impressive.

5:31

Yeah. I know you were kind of

5:33

a piano savant as well. I

5:35

played the little tiny one. Yeah. You were

5:37

really good at it. Yeah. There's a video

5:40

that, uh, I've seen, I don't know

5:42

why you have it on your cell phone, but you

5:44

give me any eight key piano and I'll blow you

5:46

away with it. The El Paso

5:49

times describe Bobby as aloof

5:51

and circumspect as a young

5:53

boy. He preferred to be

5:55

alone studying music. He tried out

5:58

a few instruments before he decided.

6:00

to dedicate himself to playing the

6:02

drums. It always amazes

6:04

me when somebody becomes really,

6:06

really good at one instrument. But I

6:09

think there are some of these people

6:11

that are just so musically inclined, they

6:13

can pick up just about anything and

6:16

play it. Super impressive.

6:18

To me, it's always been super impressive.

6:21

By age 12, Bobby had

6:23

joined a jazz band in Salt Lake

6:25

City, where the family moved during his

6:27

early childhood. Hey, you always love

6:30

jazz, don't you? No, I do. I've never

6:32

liked jazz. I thought you would go to

6:34

the jazz clubs every now and then. No.

6:36

What clubs were you going to? Different

6:38

kinds. Not the jazz. No. No.

6:41

Bobby was influenced by jazz

6:43

artists, but he also idolized

6:46

singers like Elvis Presley, Roy

6:48

Orbison, and Buddy Holly. And

6:50

I'll be honest with you, those are three of

6:53

my favorites. Elvis, obviously, is

6:55

at the top, but I really like Buddy

6:57

Holly. Yeah. And that

7:00

kind of era of music

7:03

has always been one of my favorites. I

7:05

grew up on it, and I can remember

7:07

my mom playing it all the time. Do

7:10

you remember who died with Buddy

7:12

on that plane? Richie Vans. Yeah.

7:16

And the Big Bopper. And the Big Bopper, yeah.

7:19

I hope people forget the Big Bopper. Don't test

7:21

me on my music trivia.

7:23

But I've also seen the

7:25

movie with Gary

7:27

Busey as Buddy Holly. Okay. And

7:30

it was depicted in that as well. Is

7:32

there anybody who's changed more over the

7:34

years than Gary Busey? And he

7:36

has changed a lot, I have to say. He changed a

7:38

lot. Not all for the

7:40

best, unfortunately. In 1956, the

7:43

Fuller family moved to El Paso, Texas.

7:46

Bobby joined his high school

7:49

orchestra the following year. He

7:51

moved schools and joined the ROTC and

7:54

played drums in the school band. During

7:56

his 11th grade year, Bobby and his

7:59

younger brother Randy. Started building

8:01

a recording studio in their parents

8:03

garage. Bobby was fascinated by electronics

8:05

and sound engineering and Built

8:08

the studio through trial and error.

8:11

So I mean I think you use the word

8:13

impressive before I Think

8:15

there there was a lot that

8:17

was impressive about Bobby Fuller. Yeah,

8:19

very talented. Yeah Multitalented

8:22

Bobby graduated from El Paso's

8:24

Technical Center in July 1960

8:28

he briefly attended North Texas State

8:30

University and studied music But

8:33

he didn't like school all that much

8:35

and his grades slipped I didn't

8:37

like school that much either and your

8:40

grades slipped putting it

8:42

mildly putting it mildly And

8:46

English was one of those subjects He

8:52

Worked part-time at a store called the

8:54

Melody Shop and dreamed of being a

8:57

rock star in the late 50s He

8:59

played drums for local bands, but by 1960

9:03

he was ready to start his full-time career

9:05

Bobby formed bands called Bobby Fuller

9:08

in the fanatics and

9:10

Bobby Fuller in the regions He

9:12

was always the front man of the bands

9:14

according to the El Paso Times His

9:17

brother Randy played the bass and

9:20

I think you kind of have to be the front

9:22

man if the band Name

9:24

is your name and then another

9:27

group Yeah, I mean

9:29

it just seems kind of logical I

9:31

mean it's weird that you wanted

9:34

to be the front man when you talked

9:36

about performing a band with me and

9:38

Another mic and we were gonna be miking the

9:40

mics and you're like, you know, I'm gonna

9:43

be the front man I'm gonna be

9:45

Mike. Yeah Yeah, Bobby

9:47

and his musicians won the local battle

9:49

of the bands contest three years in

9:51

a row the El Paso Times

9:53

reported that in 1960 Bobby

9:56

was earning a decent income and Was

9:59

a little bit local celebrity, but

10:01

he wanted to grow his fan base, which

10:03

back then was probably pretty

10:06

hard. Well, you couldn't

10:08

just upload yourself on YouTube and

10:10

gain a following that way. No,

10:12

I mean, you were probably at

10:14

the mercy of radio

10:17

stations, traveling around, getting

10:19

in front of them, you know,

10:21

and just word of mouth. Yeah.

10:24

Well, you know, think back about

10:26

some of the biographical movies. You

10:29

had coal miners daughter

10:31

where they were basically driving to

10:33

all these different little country radio

10:36

stations, trying to get them to

10:38

play their record. That's when DJs had a lot of

10:40

power. They had a lot of power. And

10:42

then you think about Buddy

10:44

Holly and Richie Valens and these guys

10:47

having to jump on planes

10:50

to the top from one

10:52

little show to the next because

10:54

they're trying to reach a

10:57

wider audience. Yeah. On

10:59

February 22nd, 1961, Bobby's

11:02

older brother Jack was murdered by

11:04

his friend, Roy Leon Handy. While

11:07

the two men were target shooting, Handy

11:09

confessed to murdering Jack in his own

11:11

father. He was convicted of

11:13

the murder and later released on parole.

11:16

Jack was only 31 years old when

11:19

he died. This made Bobby

11:21

work even harder on his music career

11:23

because he knew life could be

11:25

short and he wanted to be remembered. Kind

11:28

of rough that your brother was murdered.

11:31

Well, very rough. But

11:33

like in this instance, could it

11:35

also show you how delicate or

11:38

short life can really be? And

11:41

can it kind of spur you on

11:43

to, you know, want to get things

11:45

done? Want to be someone? Yeah, I think

11:47

it does one or two things, right? It's either going to

11:49

really set you back or it's going

11:51

to put that fire underneath your ass to say, I

11:53

got to get moving. Yeah, I think you're

11:55

right. According to the Guardian in

11:57

1961, Bobby and Randy. build

12:00

a studio in their parents' den,

12:02

Bobby talked his parents into buying

12:04

equipment for him. Well, you got a

12:06

little studio right here. I do. And

12:09

your point is, and you

12:11

are, and this is pertaining to what?

12:14

Really no point whatsoever. Bobby

12:16

founded two record labels to release his

12:19

music, Eastwood and Exeter.

12:22

Bobby's first single was a song called

12:24

You're In Love, which was produced in

12:26

late 1961. Eventually, the band started

12:30

receiving more radio time and producing

12:32

more singles. His biggest hit

12:34

was a cover of I Fought the

12:37

Law. I think a lot of

12:39

people will remember that song. It's kind of

12:41

been one of your anthems throughout the years.

12:44

It has been. Fought the Law and

12:46

the Law won. They always won with me. I

12:49

Fought the Law was originally written

12:51

by Buddy Holly's friend, Sonny Curtis,

12:53

and performed by a band called

12:55

The Crickets. Bobby took the song

12:57

and made it his own. Eventually,

13:00

Bobby would call himself the Rock and

13:02

Roll King of the Southwest. That's

13:05

some confidence there to make you

13:07

the Rock and Roll King

13:09

of the Southwest. Well, to make

13:11

yourself that. Yes. Randy would

13:13

tell Unsolved Mysteries, they

13:15

said he'd have been like Elvis Presley.

13:18

Everybody that knew him would describe him

13:20

as a musical genius. In

13:23

1963, Bobby's father helped his sons

13:25

open a teen dance club called

13:27

the Rendezvous. Huge crowds came

13:30

to see Bobby Fuller and the Fanatics,

13:32

who were the house band. Bobby's

13:34

band changed musicians fairly often

13:36

because he demanded perfection

13:39

from himself and others, but

13:41

Randy was always on bass. So

13:44

Randy didn't change, and obviously Bobby didn't

13:46

change, but it sounded like the other

13:48

musicians did. Because he wanted perfection. Yeah,

13:50

and I want to talk about that idea

13:52

a little bit. Someone who

13:55

strives for perfection, not

13:58

only in themselves, but. kind

14:00

of demands it from others as well. That

14:02

person can do some great things. They

14:05

can also rub you the wrong way

14:07

very, very quickly. Oh yeah. Yes,

14:09

they can. It's kind of a

14:11

double edged sword, isn't it? And I

14:14

know that was directed at me. Bobby's

14:16

regional fame increased quickly. In

14:19

September, 1964, the El Paso

14:21

Herald post reported England

14:24

has the Beatles, but El

14:26

Paso has Bobby. The paper

14:28

also reported that 6,000 fans

14:30

showed up to a shopping center to

14:32

see Bobby in the band. That's

14:35

pretty good. Cause the band that I had, we

14:37

went to the shopping center. I think we had like, I don't

14:40

know, two dozen. That

14:42

was family. And 10 of those were security

14:44

guards trying to usher you out. Oh

14:46

yeah. Of the shopping center. But no,

14:49

I mean, it does sound as though,

14:51

you know, he and the band

14:53

were getting a following to get

14:55

6,000 people to come out.

14:57

Pretty good. That's a pretty good number in

15:00

El Paso. Yeah. Not

15:02

playing Madison Square guard at

15:05

this point. The rendezvous closed

15:07

down in 1964 because the

15:09

crowds were too much to

15:11

manage due to excessive fighting

15:14

and alcohol inside the club. You know what

15:16

they needed? Dalton. Dalton.

15:19

Have you seen the new one by the way? Yeah,

15:21

it was the stunt double. Oh, for

15:24

which one Dalton or McGregor?

15:28

Both. Bobby

15:30

and Randy wanted to open an even

15:32

bigger club, but their father refused to

15:34

cosign on the loan because he thought

15:36

it was too much responsibility for them.

15:39

Bobby decided it was time to move

15:41

to LA to further his music career.

15:44

His first trip to LA was

15:46

mostly unsuccessful. The major record

15:48

labels weren't interested in him,

15:50

but Bob King from Delphi

15:52

Records reached out. He

15:54

advised Bobby to polish his music and

15:56

come back in a year, but

15:59

Bobby returned just. a few months later in

16:01

late 1964. He brought

16:03

along Randy, a guitarist

16:06

named Jim Reese and a

16:08

drummer named Dwayne Quirico, they

16:10

signed with Delphi Records and

16:12

renamed themselves the Bobby Fuller Four.

16:15

No doubt Bobby Fuller was at the helm

16:19

because every name they had for

16:22

whatever band iteration was

16:24

going on at the time, his

16:27

name was in the title. Yeah, I mean, you

16:29

gotta be pretty confident about yourself to do

16:31

that. But I mean, to

16:33

his credit, a lot of bands

16:35

did that back then, right? The lead singer,

16:38

the main star

16:40

of the show, the

16:42

band, their name went first

16:45

and then... Yeah. Yeah. But there was a

16:47

lot of bands who didn't do it that

16:49

way. I mean, the Doors, the Rolling Stones.

16:51

And I think just some groups just wanted to

16:54

have a common name. I'm

16:56

putting my real name in the mix. Like

16:59

I talked to my band and said, this is speed

17:01

of giblets. I do think

17:03

the practice kind of went more that

17:06

way as the years

17:08

progressed. Yeah. Bob Keene told

17:10

Unsolved Mysteries, Bobby was one of the

17:12

most on purpose musicians I've ever met

17:15

in my life. He was going to

17:17

be a hit. He was going to do it. Just

17:19

super focused. Yeah. And I think what

17:21

you're hearing is a lot of people say there

17:24

was no doubt this guy was going to make

17:26

it and he was going to make it big.

17:29

People really felt that way. Their

17:31

first album, KRLA King of the Wheels

17:33

was released in 1965. It

17:36

contained a new version of the band's hit,

17:38

I Fought the Law. The Bobby

17:41

Fuller Four appeared on TV in June and July

17:43

1965 and played at the Rose

17:47

Bowl concert that year. They continued

17:49

their TV appearances in the late 1965, including

17:51

the popular show

17:55

American Bandstand hosted by Dick Clark. I

17:57

mean, that's a big move. That

17:59

was a big move. big deal back in the

18:01

day. And you want to talk about

18:03

an impressive person. Dick Clark

18:06

hosted stuff for like 95 years. It

18:10

seemed like he was everywhere. He was a

18:12

smart guy. Bobby was thrilled

18:14

by his success and was willing to put

18:16

in hours of work with little rest. And

18:18

I, I'd be honest with you, gives, I

18:21

think a lot of times that's what it

18:23

takes to be successful.

18:25

And there just are some people who are

18:27

not willing to do that. They

18:30

might have the talent. They could do it, but

18:32

maybe they're not disciplined or they don't

18:35

want to give that much of themselves

18:37

up for something. Which is fine,

18:39

but you won't hit that ultimate

18:41

goal in some cases. Yeah.

18:44

Or that, that plateau that you're

18:46

trying to reach. His mother

18:48

Lorraine told the El Paso times fame

18:50

didn't affect him that much. He

18:52

didn't party much. I think he

18:55

liked a nice home better than anything. He

18:57

liked cars, but all boys like

19:00

nice cars. He liked girls. So

19:02

he had lots of girlfriends, but

19:04

music took priority over everything.

19:07

Bobby was seen in public

19:09

with high profile celebrities and

19:11

even had a brief relationship with

19:13

Nancy Sinatra. What do you mean? These

19:15

boots are going to walk all over you? Yes. Elvis

19:18

was also rumored to have

19:20

had a relationship with Nancy Sinatra.

19:22

Really? True crime all

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states and situations. Bobby

20:38

prefer to have a peaceful private. What

20:40

it was said that he didn't drink

20:42

much in only use drugs a case.

20:45

By. February Nineteen Sixty Six. I Fought

20:47

The Law was in the top

20:49

forty on the Billboard charts. The.

20:52

Success of that song. Turn.

20:54

The group and a teen idols

20:56

practically overnight Peru the guard. And

20:59

I do think that. That. Happened back.

21:01

Then I. Mean if you hit let's

21:04

say. American Bandstand are you

21:06

were on the Ed Sullivan Show.

21:09

Because. There were so many eyes.

21:12

On those types of shows there

21:14

was much less variety. Yeah, channel

21:16

was to was. I

21:18

see people became like over

21:20

night. Teen Idols are celebrities

21:22

or or whatever you want to call

21:24

it. will also think that point all

21:26

the. Radio. Stations picked up because

21:28

I knew that was going to be popular

21:31

just and they knew that there was her

21:33

ship would want to hear the songs. So

21:35

they start playing and getting my rotation and

21:37

adjusts and then it becomes like an avalanche.

21:39

Yeah right yeah. The more you hear it

21:41

the more you like is. The. More you

21:43

want hear something else from them. The.

21:46

Group released their second L P and

21:48

went on a sword tour. They soon

21:50

started the National Tour in an effort

21:52

to grow their fan base across the

21:54

Us. The. tour was physically exhausting for

21:57

every member of the ban like image And

21:59

that's what they did back then, right? They

22:01

had to really put in the

22:03

time on the road to make

22:05

their fan base grow. Yeah. It was

22:08

said at one point they traveled 1800

22:10

miles in four nights and

22:12

you know, big groups do that today.

22:14

Big stars. They just do

22:16

it a little differently. Yeah. You

22:19

know, if they have a bus, it's a

22:21

much nicer bus than I'm sure these, these

22:24

guys were riding in or they have

22:26

a private plane or, or whatever it

22:28

is. Or they have someone driving the

22:31

bus instead of them taking shifts and

22:33

driving, you know, driving themselves. But

22:35

I'm not saying it's not hard

22:38

what stars do today. Cause it

22:40

has to be grueling. Or

22:43

to be on the road so much. Yeah.

22:45

Now you're doing maybe one

22:47

show a night that show lasts, let's say

22:50

two hours. But I'm sure

22:52

it's exhausting with all the changing

22:55

of clothes. I don't know. When

22:57

my daughters were younger, we took

22:59

them to see both Taylor Swift

23:01

and Carrie Underwood. The

23:04

shows were amazing, but they must

23:06

have changed costumes. Each of them

23:08

like 15 times. Yeah. It's

23:11

like every song was

23:13

a costume change and they're constantly

23:15

moving. So it has

23:17

to be a grind. And like you mentioned,

23:19

being away from home is not easy. You

23:21

got to think about all the, all the rehearsals

23:24

and all of us, all the promotion towards the

23:26

stuff you got to do while

23:28

you're on the road to drive the ticket

23:30

sales up. Well, that's a great point. It's not

23:32

just the two hours they're on stage, right? Road

23:35

manager Rick Stone told the El Paso

23:37

times it was draining. We weren't

23:39

getting any sleep, but it was

23:41

rewarding. The band had a wide

23:44

following in the South in the summer

23:46

of 1966. They played

23:48

in New York and Massachusetts and did

23:50

a live phone interview with Dick Clark.

23:53

Again, Dick Clark was everywhere. He

23:55

was America's top 40, right?

23:57

He did that too on the radio

23:59

show. What was that? Dick uh...

24:02

Yeah, I don't know. There's a lot

24:04

of dicks out there, but uh, you know, Dick

24:07

Clark was into everything. I'm sure he had a top

24:10

whatever radio show as well.

24:13

I remember Casey Kasem. That was a big deal

24:15

too. Casey Kasem. Back in the day. The

24:18

band returned to LA in late June.

24:20

At this time, their new single, The

24:22

Magic Touch, was a popular hit. The

24:25

band played at different clubs in San

24:27

Francisco, which were Bobby's

24:29

final live performances. But it

24:31

was said that the crowds were small due

24:34

to bad weather. The band

24:36

was exhausted and demoralized. Per

24:38

the El Paso times, tensions

24:40

escalated and Bobby and Randy

24:43

got into a physical altercation.

24:46

Brothers got a little heated with each

24:48

other. And that's gonna

24:50

happen, right? Brothers get into it

24:53

anyway, but it sounds like they

24:55

were in a pressure cooker situation,

24:57

which is going to cause

24:59

tension and it's gonna increase

25:02

the chances of

25:04

altercations happening. Yeah, and you know, when

25:06

you're there, you don't have the amount

25:09

of people in the audience

25:11

you hope for, you know, bad

25:13

weather or not, it's still gonna be a

25:15

disappointment and that's gonna carry over. You know,

25:17

I mean, you got one, you got bills to pay.

25:19

You're on the road. And

25:21

more importantly, you're trying to grow your fan base.

25:24

Now you looks like it's shrunk. What

25:26

you know, it looks like it shrunk

25:28

from bad weather, but in your head, you might

25:30

be thinking, is it bad weather? Or maybe they

25:32

just don't want to see us. Well,

25:35

either way, Bobby was frustrated with

25:37

the direction his career was going.

25:39

He decided to break his contract

25:41

with Delphi Records. He

25:43

wanted new musicians and a solo career

25:45

with a different record label. He

25:48

was unhappy that Bob Keene canceled

25:50

his upcoming European tour because he

25:52

had a growing English fan base.

25:55

The Guardian reported that their relationship soured

25:57

because Keene was trying to get his

26:00

Trying to turn Bobby into another

26:02

version of Richie Valence, which alienated

26:04

the band, Bobby also

26:06

disliked how much they were touring

26:08

because he couldn't spend as much

26:10

time in the studio making music.

26:13

However, it was said that Bobby was happier

26:15

when the band returned to LA. He

26:18

and the band had a week off and

26:20

he thought that he could renegotiate with King.

26:23

On July 17, 1966,

26:26

Bobby drank beers with some of his friends

26:28

who were visiting from El Paso. It

26:30

was the last day of his vacation and

26:33

he had studio rehearsals scheduled

26:35

for July 18. Those

26:37

who saw Bobby during his week off said

26:39

he was cheerful and relaxed.

26:42

He was excited because he planned to

26:44

purchase a Corvette on the 18th. Ooh,

26:47

a 1966 Corvette. Yeah,

26:49

those were pretty sweet. Oh yeah, they were. My

26:51

uncle had a 1966, it was

26:53

baby blue and it

26:56

had the removable hardtop

26:59

and it had the like chrome

27:01

exhaust down each side. It

27:03

was super, super sharp. I don't

27:05

know what happened to it. I

27:07

never got it. Didn't leave it to you. No, he did

27:09

not. There were still long going

27:11

tensions about the breakup of the band,

27:13

but Bobby and Randy were still close,

27:16

even though they had been fighting. As

27:18

reported by the El Paso Times, the

27:21

discussions about ending the band made

27:23

everyone uneasy, but not hateful. And

27:26

you've experienced this Gibbs, you've got a

27:29

couple of brothers, you're going

27:31

to fight, it's going to happen, but you're

27:33

going to make up, you're still going to be

27:35

brothers, you're still going to

27:37

be close. On July 17, Bobby

27:39

spoke to his road manager, Rick Stone. He

27:41

told Rick, I don't know what's going to

27:44

happen. Rick went out

27:46

that afternoon, but returned to Bobby's apartment to

27:48

drink beers and watch TV.

27:56

Lorraine Fuller was also there. She

27:58

was visiting her son's from Washington.

28:01

At one point in the evening, Bobby left the

28:04

room to speak to his girlfriend, Nancy Norton, and

28:06

a friend named Melanie. Three

28:08

girls from El Paso also stopped

28:11

by the apartment to visit Bobby.

28:13

Very busy night. Yeah.

28:16

That sounds like he was entertaining. Yes. Rick

28:19

fell asleep in the living room just

28:21

after midnight. Lorraine went to

28:23

sleep at 1am after she briefly

28:25

spoke to Bobby. She told

28:27

the El Paso Times he was wide

28:29

away. He always stayed up playing

28:31

his guitar and listening to records. I

28:34

told him goodnight. That was the

28:36

last time I saw him alive. Later

28:38

I heard him leave the apartment.

28:41

It didn't disturb me. I don't

28:43

know why he went out, but I think he probably

28:45

went to get something to eat. He often

28:47

did that. Rick also heard

28:49

Bobby leave the apartment around 2.30am. He

28:53

woke up to get a glass of water and

28:55

saw the front door open. This

28:58

wasn't concerning because he knew Bobby stayed

29:00

up late. He heard the door shut

29:03

and knew it was Bobby heading out.

29:05

All right. I get that last part, but

29:07

I'll tell you what. If I wake up at around 2.30

29:09

in the morning and I noticed that the

29:12

front door is wide open, I

29:14

am going to be a bit concerned. Oh,

29:16

and when you find out

29:18

that everybody's okay, you're going to be

29:21

extremely upset at somebody for leaving the

29:23

door open. Yeah, but it

29:25

sounds like he just kind of

29:27

assumed this was Bobby.

29:30

He had left the door open and then

29:32

just a little bit later he heard it

29:34

close. So that must've been, you know, Bobby

29:36

leaving, but I didn't see anywhere where

29:38

he actually saw Bobby. So, you know,

29:41

for him to say it wasn't concerning.

29:43

Hmm. You disagree.

29:46

Well, I disagree in 2024. Let's put

29:48

it that way. There you go. Yeah.

29:50

In the 1960s, maybe that, you know,

29:53

it wasn't that big a deal. The

29:55

last known person who saw Bobby

29:57

alive was his friend, Lloyd Essen.

30:00

the apartment building manager. He

30:02

didn't speak to the El Paso

30:05

Times, but according to Bobby's autopsy

30:07

report, he and Lloyd had beers

30:09

in his apartment around 3 a.m.

30:12

Essinger reported that Bobby was in

30:14

good spirits. So I mean, the

30:16

one thing I want to talk about is obviously this is

30:18

a guy who stayed up late. Right. I'm

30:21

sure his schedule was pretty

30:23

strange compared to maybe

30:26

a lot of people's, you know,

30:28

a lot of those musicians, they're

30:31

working late, they're amped up, they

30:33

probably stay up late, they sleep in.

30:36

It's my thought. Yeah. I mean,

30:38

when you're on the road a lot, your schedule

30:40

is definitely going to be jacked up. Yeah.

30:42

And how easy is it going to be to change

30:44

when you get back? And

30:47

do you want it to change if you're going to go right

30:49

back on the road in a little bit? Yeah, because he's only

30:51

off a week. Right. So Lorraine was

30:53

anxious on the morning of July

30:55

18th because Bobby didn't come home.

30:58

Rick went to the studio at 8 30 a.m. for their scheduled

31:02

recording session. The band

31:04

waited for Bobby until 2 30 p.m.

31:06

They decided to give up and head home for

31:08

the day. Well, I

31:11

think I would have probably been concerned. Well,

31:13

my thought is they had to be concerned.

31:16

You know, based off of all

31:18

the things we've said about Bobby

31:20

Fuller, this is a guy who

31:22

was a perfectionist. He was driven.

31:25

Was he going to miss

31:27

this session? I

31:30

get it. Things come up and all of that.

31:32

But if they're scheduled for 8

31:34

30 and 2 30 rolls around

31:36

and he's not there, obviously

31:38

he's not coming. I think

31:41

there's got to be a bit of concern. And

31:43

maybe a little bit of them being pissed

31:45

off too. Like we wasted our whole day

31:47

because you failed to show up. Are

31:50

you out running around with some women or

31:52

you out? What are you doing? Buying you

31:54

buying your new Corvette, getting your new Corvette,

31:57

Ty Grimes and Mike Ciccarelli to

31:59

a. Bobby's friends from El Paso

32:01

went to his apartment just before 5pm.

32:04

They noticed that his car wasn't there,

32:07

but they decided to ring the doorbell

32:09

anyway. They noticed a car pulling

32:11

in behind them, but Ty said he

32:13

didn't pay much attention to it. Bobby

32:15

had invited them over a day or two

32:17

earlier, but he wasn't answering the door. As

32:21

the men were ringing the doorbell, Lorraine

32:23

Fuller walked down the back stairs

32:25

to check the mail. She saw

32:27

Mike's car and Bobby's Osmobile in the

32:29

parking lot. She ran down the

32:31

stairs to Bobby's car and opened the

32:34

driver's side door. She was hit

32:36

by the strong smell of gasoline and

32:38

found Bobby in the front seat. The

32:40

keys were in the ignition and his

32:43

hand was on the keys. She

32:45

thought he was asleep and called his name,

32:47

but when she took a closer look, she saw

32:50

he was dead. So

32:52

obviously tragic, right, for a

32:54

mother to find her son

32:57

dead in his car. Mike

33:00

and Ty saw Lorraine run up the

33:02

stairs to call the police. She left the

33:04

door open and they saw Bobby in his

33:07

car. Ty claimed he saw

33:09

dried blood on Bobby's shirt. Blood

33:12

was also found on the car

33:14

seat per unsolved mysteries. His

33:16

body and clothing were soaked with

33:18

gasoline. Rick Stone received word

33:20

of what happened and came to the

33:22

apartment. He saw that Bobby was holding

33:25

a hose, connected to a

33:27

can of gas on the floorboard. He

33:29

noticed that Bobby's hair was covered in gas,

33:32

like it had been poured on him. So

33:34

already, I mean, we're getting some

33:37

really strange pieces of

33:39

information. Yeah. He's

33:41

doused in gasoline. Yeah, hair

33:43

soaked. So we've got to

33:45

figure that out and we still have to figure

33:47

out, you know, what ultimately

33:50

caused his death. The car

33:52

had been in the parking lot for a

33:54

few minutes when Lorraine Fuller saw it, but

33:57

Bobby was in full rigor mortis, which

33:59

meant he'd and dead for all. So

34:02

even more mystery, right? How did the

34:04

car get there? If it was only there

34:06

for a few minutes. Yeah. Cause I had the

34:08

question when we were talking about,

34:10

you know, his two friends coming

34:13

up and knocking on the door, how

34:15

could they not have seen Bobby

34:19

in his car? You would have thought

34:21

they'd have recognized his car, but the

34:23

thinking is the car wasn't there and

34:25

it arrived right after them.

34:28

Now, was it the car that they

34:30

said they saw pulling in behind them?

34:33

I don't know. It didn't make sense

34:35

to Lorraine because she knew

34:37

Bobby's car was gone all night and

34:39

all day. She insisted she

34:41

didn't see the car until 5 PM

34:43

when she went outside to check the

34:45

mail. Record label owner, Bob

34:47

Keene arrived at the scene while the

34:49

police were there. He told Unsolved Mysteries

34:52

that he saw a detective throw the

34:54

gas can in a dumpster and say

34:57

it's just another rock and roll pump.

34:59

He committed suicide or something

35:01

like that. That's nice. Yeah.

35:04

I mean, if he really did say that it, the

35:07

very least it's extremely callous,

35:11

but I want to talk about throwing the

35:13

gas can in a dumpster dumpster

35:15

fire. What? I mean, do

35:18

we not want to save that

35:20

for evidence? Yeah. There's a

35:22

lot of things wrong about that.

35:25

Throwing away evidence, potential evidence.

35:28

And what is a really

35:30

kind of a nasty comment? Now this

35:33

is secondhand, right? Sure. It all

35:35

comes secondhand. Bobby's autopsy

35:37

was performed on July 18th,

35:39

but the final report was

35:41

not submitted until October 17th.

35:45

His cause of death was

35:47

asphyxia due to inhalation of

35:50

gasoline. The police initially

35:52

suspected that Bobby drank gasoline.

35:55

The report did not detail the contents

35:57

of the stomach, but noted they

35:59

were. not remarkable. And

36:01

I thought that was a little strange because you

36:04

would think, okay, you do

36:06

an autopsy, the stomach contents

36:09

would be kind of laid

36:11

out in detail just for

36:13

posterity. The coroner did

36:15

not estimate how long Bobby had been

36:18

dead. His body was partially

36:20

decomposed, but that was likely

36:22

due to the high summer temperatures

36:25

and skin burns caused by gasoline

36:27

fumes. The medical examiner

36:29

noted on opening the body,

36:32

the organs and incised

36:34

tissue smelled strongly of

36:36

gasoline. Meaning what? Well,

36:38

it makes it sound like there was gasoline

36:42

inside the body. But if

36:44

the body's covered in gasoline, isn't

36:47

the whole place going to

36:49

smell like gasoline? Yeah, I

36:51

think that's pretty likely. Are you

36:54

going to get a stronger smell of gasoline

36:56

upon opening the body than

36:59

already exists if this man's hair

37:01

and body is

37:03

already covered in it? So, I mean,

37:05

there are some things here that seem a

37:07

little strange that have to be sorted out.

37:10

I mean, if somebody was upset with him

37:12

and was trying to do something to him

37:14

as they were pouring the gas over him, you

37:16

know, he could have ingested the gas then or they

37:18

could have pulled his head back as

37:20

they poured gas on him and he might have

37:23

swallowed some of the gasoline or

37:25

maybe he decided to drink the gasoline on his

37:27

own. We don't know. According to

37:29

the El Paso Times, Bobby's

37:31

mode of death was ruled

37:33

an accident, but there were

37:35

question marks next to the

37:38

boxes indicating accident and suicide.

37:40

Now, I could understand how it

37:43

would be possible to think that

37:45

this could have been a suicide.

37:48

The accident I'm struggling with a

37:50

little bit. Yeah, I don't

37:52

get that at all. I mean,

37:54

is it possible to accidentally

37:57

spill gasoline on yourself? Well,

37:59

sure. Sure. A lot of us

38:01

have done that in some way or

38:03

another, but would you not get

38:05

out of the car quickly, take your clothes

38:07

off, go take a shower, get washed? You

38:09

know, you're not going to sit in

38:11

that car and just breathe in the

38:13

gasoline fumes that you spilled on yourself. And

38:16

you're not going to douse it on top

38:18

of your head. Yeah, no, exactly. You're not

38:20

going to accidentally pour it on your head.

38:23

On July 19th, blood testing found

38:25

that Bobby did not have drugs

38:27

or alcohol in his system. The

38:29

police believed Bobby's death was a

38:31

suicide from the beginning. They didn't

38:34

impound his car or dust for

38:36

prints, which angered his friends and

38:38

family. Because they don't think it's

38:41

any type of foul play. Yeah, which we've

38:43

talked about before, right? Is

38:46

that the right way to do it?

38:49

And I would say, no. Yeah,

38:51

I think unless you 100% know

38:54

for sure, why wouldn't you

38:56

go ahead and impound the car, keep it

38:58

for a little bit of time? Why

39:00

would you not keep the gasoline can?

39:03

Dust for prints, all of that stuff.

39:06

There's no way that this could have been

39:08

a clear cut

39:11

case of suicide. I mean, how

39:13

many suicides have you heard

39:15

of Gibbs that have happened this

39:18

way? I can't think of one. No.

39:21

Randy Fuller told the El Paso Times in 1982,

39:23

I don't know if it was a suicide. Because

39:27

he's my brother. I'd love to

39:29

say that it wasn't, but I don't know. And

39:32

I'm sure that's a, that's an honest thing. And

39:34

that's after him having many years to think about

39:36

it. But it also

39:38

shows you how much time passed

39:41

without anything really

39:44

conclusive coming out.

39:46

But how are you going to

39:48

be conclusive when you didn't do

39:50

the work up front? Exactly. You

39:52

don't have a lot of evidence to

39:54

go off of, do you? No, because

39:56

you either didn't do the work or you

39:58

didn't, you know, keep. the items

40:01

or whatever. Obituaries

40:04

published on July 21st

40:06

in the Los Angeles Herald

40:09

Examiner and the Los

40:11

Angeles Times implied Bobby died of

40:13

suicide. The papers quoted Lorraine Fuller

40:15

as saying that Bobby was despondent

40:18

in recent weeks. The papers

40:21

reported that the police found

40:23

no anatomical basis for death

40:25

and no external injuries. But

40:28

we also heard from some of

40:30

his friends that the days leading up,

40:32

he was in good spirits.

40:35

Yeah, it sounded like that week off, maybe

40:38

had recharged him, rejuvenated him.

40:40

It was pretty good that week.

40:43

And I think, you know, that led

40:45

to Bobby's friends and family believing that

40:48

foul play was involved. They were insistent.

40:50

He was not depressed leading up to

40:52

his death. Lorraine said per the

40:54

El Paso Times, he was

40:56

not depressed. I never saw him

40:58

actually depressed. He'd get down in

41:01

the dumps occasionally, but he never let it

41:03

get to him. And who doesn't

41:05

get down from time to time?

41:08

We all have bad days. We

41:10

do. Now, is it

41:12

possible to be despondent about something

41:14

that happens during your day? Yes.

41:18

Does that mean technically

41:20

that you're depressed or is

41:23

it a sign of a

41:25

long-term depression?

41:27

No, not necessarily. Yeah,

41:30

you just get back up again. Sometimes you just

41:32

have a really bad day, but the next day

41:34

you're fine. The El Paso

41:36

Times noted a few inconsistencies

41:38

between Bobby's autopsy report and

41:40

witness testimony. The autopsy report

41:42

stated that the car doors

41:45

were closed, but not locked.

41:47

And the keys were not in the

41:49

ignition. However, Rick Stone and

41:52

Lorraine Fuller said they saw the

41:54

keys in the ignition. The report

41:56

did not make note of it, but Ty Grimes, Rick Stone,

41:58

and the police were in the ignition. stone and

42:00

Randy Fuller said they saw dried

42:02

blood on Bobby's shirt. The report

42:05

did not note external injuries, but

42:07

Rick and Lorraine saw abrasions on

42:09

Bobby's skin. Rick recalled to

42:11

the El Paso times there were scrapes on

42:14

his elbow and face. The slippers

42:16

he was wearing were badly torn

42:18

up at the toes as if

42:20

he had been walking through gravel and

42:22

his little finger looked like it was broken. So

42:25

we do have some real

42:27

discrepancies here. Yeah. Between

42:30

what people said they saw and what

42:32

was noted on the autopsy report in 1982

42:37

El Paso County coroner Juan Cotton explained

42:39

that volatile fumes can cause sloughing

42:44

of skin and that the

42:46

burned patches of skin were

42:48

possibly misinterpreted as injuries. But

42:52

it could also have been real injuries.

42:54

Yeah, could have been. Finally, the

42:57

autopsy report indicated Bobby's bladder

42:59

was distended, which suggested he

43:01

was unconscious for a long

43:03

time before he died. If

43:05

he was unconscious, how did he get back

43:07

to the apartment in the driver's seat

43:10

of his car? Bobby's friend

43:12

Robin Vinikoff claimed he and a

43:14

few friends came to Bobby's apartment

43:16

at 3 PM on July 18th.

43:19

He said he saw Bobby's Ozmobile in the

43:21

parking lot. However, Lorraine maintained that the

43:23

car was not in the parking lot at

43:25

that time. Based on statements from

43:28

Bobby's friends, Ty and Mike and Lorraine

43:30

Fuller, the car got there within a

43:32

short window around 5 PM. Officials

43:35

never issued an explanation for this,

43:37

but it's a key piece of

43:39

evidence or key

43:41

piece of the puzzle. Yes. Was

43:44

the car there before? And if it

43:46

wasn't based on what his

43:48

friends and his mom said, then

43:50

how did the car get there? If he was

43:52

dead. When I still go

43:54

back to his friends coming to the

43:56

apartment, you know, you know, before five

43:58

o'clock, I don't. know how they wouldn't

44:01

have seen him. Right. Seen his

44:03

car, noticed him inside the

44:05

car. So did someone drive the car

44:07

there and then took

44:09

him from the passenger side and pulled him over to

44:12

the driver's side and then fled the scene? It's

44:15

one theory. It's one theory that

44:17

we'll have to explore. Ty Grimes

44:19

and Mike Ciccarelli were under suspicion

44:21

in the beginning. Once they

44:24

were cleared, investigators asked them to

44:26

create a detailed timeline. Ty

44:28

said it took them three minutes to get

44:30

from the parking lot to the apartment and

44:32

back to their car. And I

44:34

think that's where this really short window

44:36

of time comes from. Right.

44:40

It comes from their statements. It

44:42

comes from Bobby's mother's statements. According

44:45

to Rick Stone, two PIs were hired

44:47

to look into Bobby's death. One

44:49

of them abruptly quit in the

44:52

other left town after claiming he

44:54

was threatened. So again, this is

44:57

something alarming to me, right? I mean, you have

44:59

a PI that just gets up and quits, most

45:02

likely someone probably threatened them. And

45:04

then you have the other one that did leave

45:06

town because he said he was threatened. Who's

45:09

threatening them? Well, I think

45:11

you can make the assumption that

45:14

if they really were threatened or forced

45:16

out of town or forced to quit,

45:19

it was by someone who had a hand

45:21

in Bobby Fuller's death,

45:24

because who else would need to

45:26

threaten a PI looking into his

45:28

death other than the person

45:31

or persons responsible? Rick

45:33

gave his theory to the El Paso

45:36

Times saying, I think Bobby may

45:38

have been murdered out of vengeance for something

45:40

he was innocent of. Maybe someone

45:42

was going to set him on fire and

45:44

chickened out, or maybe they only meant to

45:46

rough him up. But the scare

45:48

went too far. Maybe what started

45:50

as a threat ended in a

45:53

murder. And I can see

45:55

some different scenarios there. This

45:57

thing about him being doused with

45:59

gasoline. I mean that is stuck

46:01

in my mind. Yeah, how many movies

46:03

have you seen and granted?

46:06

I know they're movies, but how many movies

46:08

have you seen where the

46:10

threat is made by pouring gasoline on

46:12

someone and Then saying you're

46:14

gonna light them on fire if

46:17

they don't what tell you what you

46:19

want to know Agree to

46:21

do something you want them to do whatever

46:23

it may be Is it

46:25

possible that there was a

46:27

scenario like this but he died

46:31

Due to you know inhalation

46:33

of the gasoline or something

46:35

along those lines Yeah, I

46:38

think it's a very likely I mean, I

46:40

think it's one theory that we have to look at

46:42

for sure The other band members

46:44

were fearful that if Bobby was

46:46

murdered they would be targeted next

46:49

the night after Bobby died Randy

46:51

Fuller and Rickstone were outside

46:53

guitarist Jim Reese's apartment Just

46:55

a few blocks from Bobby's place They

46:58

claimed they saw three men get out of

47:00

a car and burst into the

47:02

apartment One of them was carrying

47:04

a large stick in the other had a coke

47:06

bottle They asked for Jim and

47:09

laughed when they realized he wasn't home

47:11

Jim swore he had no idea who they

47:13

were One theory revolved

47:15

around Bob King as

47:18

Bobby was the third artist with

47:20

his label to die under disputed

47:22

Circumstances the other two were Richie

47:25

Downs who died in a

47:27

plane accident with Buddy Holly and

47:29

JP Richardson And Sam

47:31

Cooke who was shot by a motel manager

47:33

in Los Angeles His

47:36

death was ruled a justifiable

47:38

homicide and Sam Cooke is

47:40

one of my all-time Favorites

47:43

I think I remember I think I've mentioned it before

47:46

I love all his music

47:48

Bob Keene spoke to unsolved mysteries

47:51

about his relationship with Bobby leading

47:53

up to his death saying Buddy

47:55

Holly was his God and he wanted

47:57

to play like Buddy Holly and I

47:59

was Constantly saying no don't do that

48:02

because you're Bobby Fuller. You have your

48:04

own talent We were

48:06

at odds sometimes in actually making

48:08

the music the record and

48:11

I don't know if there's much that

48:13

you can really put Into that theory.

48:15

Yes, Richie Valens did die in

48:17

a in a plane crash Was

48:19

that a murder or was that

48:21

just an accidental plane crash? I

48:24

think to make all three of them

48:28

Bobby Richie and Sam Cooke into

48:31

this scenario where Bob Keene

48:33

was getting rid of Artists,

48:37

I'm assuming Bob Keene made a lot

48:40

of money off of these

48:42

individuals Now there was talk that

48:44

Bobby was going to split but as we

48:46

said it seemed like they Had

48:49

reconciled and he was trying

48:51

to renegotiate with Bob Keene So

48:54

why would Bob Keene want to have

48:56

Bobby Fuller killed? When he

48:58

still stands to make a bunch of money from

49:00

him or off him. So that one's

49:03

a little tough for me For

49:06

me too in 1998 Randy Fuller did

49:08

an interview with the El Paso Times

49:10

where he questioned the suicide theory He

49:12

said who would pour gas on

49:14

himself in a hot car? I just think

49:16

he got in a bad situation that night

49:18

met the wrong dude and couldn't get out

49:21

of it I'm 99.9 percent

49:23

sure that it wasn't an accident

49:26

or a suicide. I Kind

49:28

of agree with them. I mean

49:30

I've been thinking pretty much this

49:32

exact thing The whole

49:35

time we've been going through if you

49:37

did want to end your life Would

49:39

you think about doing it

49:41

by pouring gasoline on yourself?

49:44

I would say no, I would say no, too

49:46

I don't even know how

49:48

many people Would

49:50

understand how you would

49:52

die from Gas

49:56

inhalation. Yes, I get it.

49:58

It could happen It sounds like

50:00

it would be a very terrible way to

50:03

die. Not quick, not

50:06

painless, very painful, nasty.

50:10

And then the possibility of catching

50:12

yourself on fire during that process. It's

50:15

a pain that you would feel. Or

50:17

somebody coming along and finding you and

50:20

opening the door. Yeah. And

50:23

now you've just really hurt yourself by pouring

50:25

gas all over yourself and it just

50:28

doesn't make a lot of sense. The

50:30

Times also spoke to Rod Crosby,

50:33

Bobby's friend and a musician. Crosby

50:35

said he was not street smart,

50:38

so he did hurt himself

50:40

from the standpoint of

50:42

not knowing how ugly things could be in

50:44

LA. Story has it

50:47

that he was having a fling with

50:49

the girl of a low-level mobster. He

50:51

wasn't aware of that until it was too late.

50:54

My theory is that they just wanted

50:56

to work him over, but things went

50:58

awry. So it wasn't the

51:00

result of organized crime so much

51:02

as disorganized crime. But nothing's going

51:05

to happen now more than 30

51:07

years later. We'll just never know

51:09

what really happened. Well, I can

51:11

see somebody in the mob doing

51:13

something like this. Well, it goes back to

51:15

kind of my movie trope, right?

51:18

We're going to scare you. We're

51:21

going to pour gasoline on you

51:23

and threaten to light you on

51:25

fire. And that's going to cause

51:27

you to never look at this girl ever

51:30

again, right? Talk to this girl, have anything

51:32

to do with this girl. Unsolved

51:34

Mysteries covered this theory during their

51:36

segment on Bobby's death. They

51:39

reported that Bobby was seeing a

51:41

girl named Melody who was already

51:43

in a relationship. So that's

51:45

a possible theory. I

51:48

didn't say that she was in a

51:50

relationship with a low-level mobster, but would

51:52

it even have to have been a mobster?

51:55

Could it just have been a jealous lover?

51:59

Yeah. could have been anybody,

52:01

right? Most people don't

52:03

like it when you're having a fling

52:05

with their girlfriend. No, they

52:08

don't, but the mob really doesn't like it. Bobby's

52:11

friends and his mother knew that he was

52:13

seeing her, but they knew almost nothing about

52:15

her. Some believe Bobby was

52:17

keeping their relationship secret because

52:19

melody's boyfriend allegedly had ties

52:22

to the mob. So

52:24

again, these are all theories, but, and we'll

52:26

talk about, you know, our favorite

52:29

theories here at the end, but according

52:32

to El Paso Times journalist,

52:34

Edna Gunderson, the boyfriend was

52:36

a quote nefarious character who

52:39

was operating nightclubs in LA

52:41

and had a reputation for violence.

52:44

So if that is true, I

52:46

do think it maybe lends a

52:48

little bit of credence to the theory

52:51

that, you know, this was

52:53

a jealous person who found out

52:55

that Bobby Fuller was having, you

52:58

know, a fling with, with his girlfriend

53:01

and he either decided to scare

53:03

him from having this relationship

53:07

and it went awry and he died or

53:09

something to that effect, something along those lines.

53:11

Somehow had a hand in it. Yeah. Randy

53:14

said that Bobby was supposed to go to

53:17

a party with melody the night before he

53:19

was found dead. Melody was supposed

53:21

to drive into the party and

53:23

introduce him to a lot of big

53:25

time people. Randy asked Bobby not

53:27

to do anything that would get him into trouble

53:30

and he promised not to. Now,

53:32

no one knows exactly what happened at this

53:34

party. If the party actually

53:36

occurred, it's possible that this is

53:38

where Bobby went when he left his apartment

53:41

in the middle of the night. There

53:43

were rumors that Bobby overdosed and

53:46

the people at the party tried to cover it up,

53:48

but this was discredited by the fact

53:51

that Bobby had no drugs in his system.

53:54

So I think that's a theory that you

53:56

can probably throw out. I think so too.

53:58

Based on the autopsy, would have found,

54:01

you know, drugs in a system and

54:03

they just didn't. After unsolved mysteries

54:06

covered the case, melody called and confirmed

54:08

most of their facts, but said she

54:10

was never involved with someone connected to

54:12

the mob. She also said she was

54:15

not with Bobby when he died. And

54:17

she had no knowledge about any party

54:19

that allegedly occurred on the night he

54:22

died. Well, if you believe her,

54:24

that takes care of that theory. Well,

54:26

it takes care of the theory

54:28

of the mob and it having

54:30

to do something with the party.

54:33

Does it completely remove the fact

54:35

that it could have been the act

54:38

of a jealous boyfriend? And

54:40

I don't know that it does. Bobby's

54:42

cause of death was officially changed

54:45

from suicide to accident after the

54:47

episode came out. And I

54:49

found this very strange. You know, from

54:51

the beginning, we talked about

54:53

the fact that I think there

54:56

was a document that had

54:59

both accident and suicide checked.

55:02

And we've talked a lot about the

55:04

suicide angle. Let's talk about the accident

55:07

angle because I'm having a lot

55:09

of trouble picturing how

55:11

somebody accidentally pours gasoline

55:13

over the top of

55:15

their head and then accidentally

55:19

continues to sit in a

55:21

hot car breathing in these

55:23

fumes. Well, there's no way it could be an accident. It

55:26

doesn't seem like it, right? It's

55:29

just it's not even plausible.

55:31

I mean, have you ever accidentally poured

55:34

a can of coke over

55:36

your head? No. No, I

55:38

haven't either. Certainly not.

55:41

And surely not gas.

55:44

Yeah. I mean, don't call me Shirley, but

55:46

I get where you're going and I'm at

55:49

that same place, I'm having

55:52

more trouble with the term accident

55:54

than I am even with the

55:57

theory of suicide. Yeah. I

55:59

mean, the only way you're you're going to get doused

56:01

with gasoline is that you do it

56:03

to yourself for a reason, or somebody

56:06

else does it to you for a reason. Not

56:09

accidental. I've gotten gasoline

56:11

on me while filling up a

56:13

mower or I pull

56:16

the nozzle out of my truck too quickly

56:19

or something, but it's a little

56:21

bit. We're talking

56:23

over somebody's head. You're

56:25

not like that movie would instill

56:27

or where you're at the gas

56:29

pumps and you're showering with gasoline.

56:31

I think it's called Zuglander or

56:33

something like that. Oh, is that the one

56:35

where he plays the male model? Yeah, I think

56:38

he wanted the building to be tiny

56:40

building. And I

56:43

want a building for all these tiny people

56:45

in this tiny building. You don't remember

56:47

that part, do you? Yeah, I remember that

56:49

movie. I think I watched it. I

56:51

do not believe it was very good from

56:53

what I remember. Not his best work. In

56:57

2015, Randy Fuller and Miriam Linna published

56:59

the book, I fought the law, the

57:02

life and strange death of Bobby Fuller. Fuller

57:05

and Linna noted that LA's police chief

57:07

William Parker died of a heart attack

57:10

two nights before Bobby's body

57:12

was found. And the

57:14

investigation into Bobby's death was not a

57:16

top priority due to the chaos in

57:18

the department at that time. The

57:21

book presents another potential person

57:23

of interest, Morris Levy,

57:26

the owner of Roulette Records.

57:28

Levy was once described as

57:30

the godfather of the American

57:32

music business. That's pretty interesting because

57:34

I've never heard of this guy. Me neither. But

57:37

according to the book, Levy's

57:39

business partners and associates included

57:42

members of the infamous Gambino

57:44

and Genovese crime families.

57:47

Okay, those are very well

57:49

known crime families that

57:51

You don't want to cross.

57:53

You don't want to. Shortly

57:55

Before Bobby died, Bob King's

57:57

label signed an exclusive distribution

58:00

deal. Weird roulette. Bobby's.

58:02

Last single, the Magic Touch was

58:04

written by a writer associated with

58:06

roulette. Randy. Believes Bobby's

58:09

death had to do with a business deal

58:11

he wanted to back out of. He.

58:13

Remembered seeing Bobby and Keep with a

58:15

third man during their time in New

58:17

York in the Spring of nineteen Sixty

58:19

six. He couldn't remember who the third

58:22

man was, but he identified a photo

58:24

of Morris Let. Without. Knowing

58:26

his name, Okay, so

58:28

this is pretty interesting.

58:31

If. This guy really had

58:33

connections with, you know, the

58:35

Gambino and. Denim. They

58:38

see our crime families. We

58:40

did talk about. Bobby.

58:42

Wanting to get out of this deal with

58:44

bots? Yeah, But. Then we also

58:46

said that he china thought about

58:49

it any wonder reconcile. Could.

58:51

It be. That. During

58:53

this period. Both. For

58:55

Bob, seen knew that he

58:57

was thinking about coming back

58:59

to him. He got in

59:02

touch with. This. Levy.

59:04

Or levy character. And.

59:06

They. Tried to make him an offer he

59:08

couldn't receipts and when we need some much

59:10

pressure put on. Put. On M

59:13

to not leave us and that would be a

59:15

lot of pressure. Having. Someone douse

59:17

you and gasoline and and maybe

59:19

threatening to set you on fire.

59:22

But. Again, Could. It

59:24

have been. A. Scare

59:26

tactic that. Went. Horribly

59:28

wrong. Because you know he

59:30

does. As. They were

59:32

trying to. Put pressure on.

59:35

And. I do think it's a pretty

59:38

valid theory. Again, just a

59:40

theory. Over. Fifty years later,

59:42

the circumstances surrounding Bobby father's

59:44

death remain a mystery. Is.

59:47

Possible that Bobby was struggling. In

59:50

hiding the full extent of his

59:52

depression. From. The people closest to

59:54

him. Forever. He was making plans

59:56

for the future. and seems hopeful

59:58

about starting a solo career, we

1:00:01

will most likely never know if

1:00:03

Bobby Fuller died of suicide or

1:00:05

if he was murdered. And

1:00:08

as we wrap this one up, Gibbs, I

1:00:10

do want to go back and just

1:00:12

kind of separate out the

1:00:15

three most

1:00:17

talked about scenarios. Number

1:00:20

one is that, you know, Bobby Fuller took

1:00:23

his life, right? And for me,

1:00:25

it's just such a strange way

1:00:28

to do that, that I have

1:00:30

a lot of trouble believing

1:00:32

that someone would make the

1:00:34

decision to do it that way. It

1:00:37

just doesn't make any sense to me. It doesn't. I

1:00:39

mean, I don't want to talk about all the different

1:00:42

ways to do it, but people

1:00:44

know what they are

1:00:46

and what most people would choose.

1:00:50

Being yourself in gasoline is

1:00:52

not even on the list,

1:00:54

it seems like. So then, you know, look

1:00:57

at the accident theory. And

1:01:00

again, I just don't see it. I

1:01:02

don't know who has an accident where they

1:01:05

somehow pour gasoline over

1:01:07

the top of their head. Yeah,

1:01:10

that's not even in play for me. And if

1:01:12

you did that, wouldn't you immediately

1:01:14

get out of the car and

1:01:17

go get help or at

1:01:19

least jump in

1:01:21

the shower, pour water over yourself, do

1:01:23

something. It just wouldn't sit there. Call

1:01:26

an ambulance or something like

1:01:28

that. And so it really

1:01:30

kind of leads me to this third theory.

1:01:33

And it's that someone,

1:01:36

for whatever reason, whether it

1:01:38

was a jealous boyfriend,

1:01:40

it was someone who

1:01:43

didn't want Bobby to back

1:01:45

out of his record

1:01:47

deal, attempted to apply

1:01:50

pressure on him to get

1:01:52

them to do what he wanted or

1:01:54

to get them to stop doing what they didn't

1:01:56

want him to do. And

1:01:59

so they doused him with gasoline. gasoline, they

1:02:01

threatened to set him on fire, but

1:02:03

the fumes killed him during the

1:02:06

process. And that

1:02:08

is a theory that I can wrap my

1:02:10

mind around. Yeah, you can get behind that

1:02:12

one, right? Yeah, a little easier than some

1:02:14

of the other ones. Yeah. And

1:02:16

I think you've kind of touched on it, but could

1:02:19

it have been that whoever

1:02:21

was involved drove Bobby's

1:02:23

car back to the

1:02:25

complex, moved him over

1:02:28

into the driver's seat, and

1:02:30

then left. Now, obviously, there

1:02:33

was no CCTV footage in the 1960s.

1:02:36

This person was not going to be caught on camera.

1:02:39

You do have conflicting statements, though, from

1:02:42

people who said, those mobile was

1:02:44

there, those mobile was

1:02:46

not there, didn't get there until certain

1:02:48

times. So I don't know, if

1:02:50

we're going through things on

1:02:52

the plausibility meter, I'm kind of leaning

1:02:55

towards that last one. Yeah, I just

1:02:57

think who would benefit

1:02:59

from trying to scare him to get him back

1:03:01

on track, the mob, his

1:03:03

producer, maybe some members in

1:03:05

his band, if he was going to try

1:03:07

to go solo without them. Yeah,

1:03:09

that's something we haven't touched on. Right.

1:03:12

And then potentially, I guess, if he

1:03:14

was dating a married woman or seeing

1:03:17

a married woman or just

1:03:19

seeing somebody had a boyfriend, maybe

1:03:21

they got upset enough to do something to him. Outside

1:03:25

of those, I can't think of any other reason. No,

1:03:27

I can't either. The band

1:03:30

really, there's no theory that

1:03:32

I saw put forth that

1:03:34

they were involved. You

1:03:36

do bring up an interesting point. If

1:03:39

he's going solo, could there be

1:03:41

some people upset about that? Well, sure.

1:03:44

Yeah. There's not going to

1:03:46

be a band, which means they're not

1:03:48

going to be in the limelight. They're not

1:03:50

going to be making the same amount of

1:03:52

money. I just didn't see anything in the

1:03:55

research where someone put forth a theory that

1:03:57

was based on that. But it's

1:03:59

a perplexing thing. No doubt about

1:04:01

that. I can definitely see

1:04:03

why his family had a

1:04:05

very serious issue with the

1:04:08

ruling of suicide and the

1:04:10

fact that they changed it to accident. You

1:04:13

know, so many years later, I

1:04:15

thought was a little strange to seems

1:04:18

like there should have been another box. Yeah. Yeah,

1:04:21

undetermined or I'm

1:04:23

sure there's another word that we normally use

1:04:25

that I just can't think of right now,

1:04:27

but something along those lines. Yeah, I mean,

1:04:29

if it's unknown, it's unknown. You don't know.

1:04:31

Yeah, you know why say something that you

1:04:33

really don't know. But that's

1:04:36

it for our episode on the

1:04:38

mysterious death of Bobby Fuller. Then

1:04:40

I think there's very little chance that

1:04:42

this one will ever be conclusively

1:04:45

solved. Yeah, I agree

1:04:47

with you. I think it's at a point where it's

1:04:50

probably never going to happen. No, there's no

1:04:52

evidence. I don't think that's there. Somebody's going

1:04:54

to be able to use new technology on

1:04:56

or anything like that. Like there

1:04:59

is in some of the unsolved cases

1:05:01

that we do. But we have some voicemails. You want

1:05:03

to check those out? Let's hear them. This

1:05:05

is Mikola Colling from Anchorage, Alaska.

1:05:07

Today I'm visiting my parents. I

1:05:10

live in Freiburg, Germany with my

1:05:12

family. My husband and I are

1:05:14

big fans of your

1:05:16

podcast. We listen to you on the

1:05:19

way to work and walking the dog and cleaning. And

1:05:22

I always have to laugh when people tell

1:05:24

you that they listen to you falling

1:05:26

asleep because that's exactly what I do as well

1:05:29

if I can't sleep. I put

1:05:31

in my AirPods and listen to the

1:05:33

two of you and then I doze

1:05:36

right off. So thank you for

1:05:38

that as well. I

1:05:40

have a couple of ideas for new

1:05:43

episodes, three cases that

1:05:45

actually happened right near Freiburg where

1:05:47

I live. I'll send you

1:05:50

an email with the details. One is an

1:05:52

unsolved case of a hiker missing in the

1:05:54

Black Forest. She was hiking by herself and

1:05:57

disappeared in 2020. and

1:06:01

hasn't been found yet. And then

1:06:03

two questions.

1:06:08

I'm happy to help you with that. We love the

1:06:10

show. We're both team TCAT and stay safe and

1:06:23

keep your own time taken. My

1:06:25

German is very good. I

1:06:28

can translate. You

1:06:31

sound a little bit like Arnold Schwarzenegger

1:06:33

and he wasn't even German. He was

1:06:36

right next door. Yeah.

1:06:41

But that would be very

1:06:43

interesting. It would do some cases out

1:06:45

of Germany. Obviously

1:06:47

we would need help with the translation.

1:06:50

I've tried some of that Google

1:06:52

translate stuff. It does not seem to work

1:06:54

that well for me. I think we've done

1:06:56

at least one, if not two cases in

1:06:58

Germany. Yes, I think we have. Yeah, but

1:07:01

we could do more. Could we?

1:07:03

Could. I think we could. Maybe

1:07:05

we will. Yeah, at least it is.

1:07:07

But we appreciate that and I'll look for the

1:07:09

email. Definitely. Thank you. I have

1:07:12

a case suggestion. I know

1:07:14

a girl who is out

1:07:16

in Arizona who was recently

1:07:18

in 2022 murdered

1:07:21

in her apartment. She's only 19 years

1:07:23

old. The case is still

1:07:25

unsolved. Her name is Rachel Hanson. I

1:07:27

would love if you guys could cover

1:07:29

it. I think the case

1:07:31

could definitely use some. Uh oh.

1:07:34

It cut off. It did. But

1:07:36

we got the pertinent information. Right. So

1:07:39

that is a case that we'll definitely look

1:07:41

at. It's pretty recent. So we'll

1:07:43

have to see how much information is

1:07:45

out there. Yeah. Because that's the problem

1:07:48

we run into sometimes with some of

1:07:50

the more recent cases. Yeah. There's

1:07:52

just not enough information out there to really do an

1:07:55

entire episode, which is sad because

1:07:57

you want to cover some

1:08:00

of the more recent because you figure

1:08:02

that maybe there's a little more traction

1:08:05

to be gained. Yeah. The

1:08:07

more recent that, that they are, but we certainly

1:08:09

can look into it. Yeah, we definitely will. All

1:08:12

right, buddy. Got anything else? That's it. Then

1:08:14

that is it for another episode of true

1:08:16

crime all the time unsolved. So for Mike

1:08:18

and Gibby, stay safe and keep your own

1:08:20

time ticking. For

1:09:00

the past 30 years, care,

1:09:29

heating and cooling put you first. You are the

1:09:31

reason they're open seven days a week. You are

1:09:33

why they make it easy to schedule service at

1:09:35

care, heating and cooling.com. Concerned for

1:09:37

your safety is why they check every gas furnace

1:09:40

for carbon monoxide. It's because of you that their

1:09:42

technicians are paid to fix your furnace and air

1:09:44

conditioner, not sell you a new one. And if

1:09:46

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1:09:48

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1:09:51

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1:09:53

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1:09:55

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1:09:57

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